[esp-r] Re: furniture in esp-r

[Achim.geissler]

Hi Camilo

interesting point. I do not quite understand what you mean by "effectively
replace on part of the exposed wall with another", though.

A hanging surface will influence the long wave radiation ("block"). Good
practice would entail splitting the surrounding surfaces into smaller
surfaces to get good results in detailed view-factor based radiation
calculation (which, of course, must be done with such surfaces). The
convection will surely be a bit high, I agree, as this will be based on the
single zone node temperature.

Good to have a discussion here!

Best
Achim

--------- Original-Nachricht --------
 Von: "Diaz, Camilo" 
 An: "Achim Geissler" , "leen peeters" 
 Cc: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk
 Betreff: [esp-r] Re: furniture in esp-r
 Datum: 24/05/11 10:12
 
 The problem with “hanging surfaces” is that you effectively
replace one part of the exposed wall with another material. In reality a
sofa or a book shelf against the wall blocks the radiation component but the
convective component it still active the heat will spread throughout the
whole wall according to its thermal diffusivity. Depending on the focus of
the study the hanging surface approach can work but you may lose some of the
mass effects… Camilo 0207 314 4447 07713 985 845 From:
esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk]
On Behalf Of Achim Geissler
Sent: 23 May 2011 20:14
To: leen peeters
Cc: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk
Subject: [esp-r] Re: furniture in esp-r Hi Leen of course, you could model
the furniture as small zones in a large one (with the floor of the furniture
connecting to the floor of the large zone) ... this would lead to quite a
complex "main zone", though. Yes, hanging surfaces can be set up with the
normal attributes as any other surface, so the adaptive convection should
not be a problem. BestAchim   On May 23, 2011, at 8:43 PM, leen peeters
wrote:

Hi Achim, we planned to do some experiments to see how things should be
taken into account, what the influence is on all modes of heat transfer for
a range of potential settings. It seemed usefull to first check how popular
building simulation codes handle the issue.So, I will take the explanation
below and I assume it can be coupled to the adaptive convection algorithm.
 What I mean by loading and unloading is that the volume, representing the
furniture, has to take part in convection and radiation (and potentially
some conduction) in order to exchange heat and thus influence its thermal
state.  LeenOn Mon, May 23, 2011 at 8:36 PM, Achim Geissler  wrote:Dear Leen

possibly you want to use "hanging surfaces". I am not sure what you mean by
"charging and discharging" other than thermal capacity, but such hanging
surfaces have all the same properties as normal zone bounding surfaces.

"Furniture against the wall" is a difficult one. As a first thought, you can
"cut the appropriate surface into the wall" and then give this surface a
different construction which has an additional layer and thermal resistance
on the interior. I assume you would like to have reduced surface
temperatures in the region of the furniture?

However, often problems arise when thermal bridging (internal walls meet
external walls, floors meet external walls and such) and furniture
"collide". For this, you would need an (at least) 2d calculation, I would
say. ESP-r has such a module, however, I do not know if it is still
"active".

For what its worth.

Best
Achim

On May 23, 2011, at 8:23 PM, leen peeters wrote:

> Dear all,
>
> what is the best way of modelling the effect of furniture in ESP-r? I mean
not only the thermal capacity, but the charging and discharging of it and
the potential effect of furniture that is located against a wall.
>
> Thanks already,
>
> Leen> _______________________________________________
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