[esp-r] Re: furniture in esp-r

[Diaz, Camilo]

Hi Achim - if your hanging surface is an additional element to the wall
behind i.e. with an air gap between surfaces then this would resolve my
point below, can you do that in esp? if so I think you approach is spot
on...

 

Thanks

Camilo 

0207 314 4447 

07713 985 845

 

From: Achim.geissler [mailto:achim.geissler at intergga.ch] 
Sent: 24 May 2011 11:11
To: Diaz, Camilo; AchimGeissler; leenpeeters
Cc: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk
Subject: AW: [esp-r] Re: furniture in esp-r

 

Hi Camilo

interesting point. I do not quite understand what you mean by
"effectively replace on part of the exposed wall with another", though.

A hanging surface will influence the long wave radiation ("block"). Good
practice would entail splitting the surrounding surfaces into smaller
surfaces to get good results in detailed view-factor based radiation
calculation (which, of course, must be done with such surfaces). The
convection will surely be a bit high, I agree, as this will be based on
the single zone node temperature.

Good to have a discussion here!

Best
Achim

--------- Original-Nachricht --------
Von: "Diaz, Camilo" <Camilo.Diaz at WSPGroup.com>
An: "Achim Geissler" <achim.geissler at intergga.ch>, "leen peeters"
<l.f.r.peeters at gmail.com>
Cc: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk
Betreff: [esp-r] Re: furniture in esp-r
! Datum: 24/05/11 10:12




The problem with "hanging surfaces" is that you effectively replace one
part of the exposed wall with another material. In reality a sofa or a
book shelf against the wall blocks the radiation component but the
convective component it still active the heat will spread throughout the
whole wall according to its thermal diffusivity. Depending on the focus
of the study the hanging surface approach can work but you! may lose
some of the mass effects...

 

Camilo 

0207 314 4447 

07713 985 845

 

From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk
[mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Achim Geissler
Sent: 23 May 2011 20:14
To: leen peeters
Cc: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk
Subject: [esp-r] Re: furniture in esp-r

 

Hi Leen

 

of course, you could model the furniture as small zones in a ! large one
(with the floor of the furniture connecting to the floor of the large
zone) ... this would lead to quite a complex "main zone", though.

 

Yes, hanging surfaces can be set up with the normal attributes as any
other surface, so the adaptive convection should not be a problem.

 

Best

Achim

 

 

 

On May 23, 2011, at 8:43 PM, leen peeters wrote:

 

Hi Achim,

 

we planned to do some experiments to see how things should be taken into
account, what the influence is on all modes of heat transfer ! for a
range of potential settings. 

It seemed usefull to first check how popular building simulation codes
handle the issue.

So, I will take the explanation below and I assume it can be coupled to
the adaptive convection algorithm. 

 

What I mean by loading and unloading is that the volume, representing
the furniture, has to take part in convection and radiation (and
potentially some conduction) in order to exchange heat and thus
influence its thermal state. 

 

Leen

On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 8:36 PM, Achim Geissler
<achim.geissler at intergga.ch> wrote:

Dear Leen

possibly you want to use "hanging surfaces". I a! m not sure what you
mean by "charging and discharging" other than thermal capacity, but such
hanging surfaces have all the same properties as normal zone bounding
surfaces.

"Furniture against the wall" is a difficult one. As a first thought, you
can "cut the appropriate surface into the wall" and then give this
surface a different construction which has an additional layer and
thermal resistance on the interior. I assume you would like to have
reduced surface temperatures in the region of the furniture?

However, often problems arise when thermal bridging (internal walls meet
external walls, floors meet external walls and such) and furniture
"collide". For this, you would need an (at least) 2d calculation, I
would say. ESP-r has such a module, however, I do not know if it is
still "active".

For what its worth.

Best
Achim



On May 23, 2011, a! t 8:23 PM, leen peeters wrote:

> Dear all,
>
> what is the best way of modelling the effect of furniture in ESP-r? I
mean not only the thermal capacity, but the charging and discharging of
it and the potential effect of furniture that is located against a wall.
>
> Thanks already,
>
> Leen

> _______________________________________________
> esp-r mailing list
> esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk
> http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r

achim.geissler at intergga.ch




 

 

achim.geissler at intergga.ch

 

 

 

 

 

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