[esp-r] Re: same model gives differents resultas

Wed Feb 3 12:44:32 GMT 2010

Jon,

thanks for your response,

yes the TMC and CON files differs, but they physically describe the same 
phenomenon: they say the same things if we put the lignes in a similar 
order (see attached files).
What I want to say about order of definition was :

- vertices used was the sames but not defined with the same sequence on 
definition
- surfaces was defined with an other sequence too (and differents 
vertices numbers in 2 files)

you can see the attached GEO files for 1 zone.

I observe a 0.02°C mean difference, 0.04°C max difference for 
temperature for zone 1
I observe no difference for solar absorbed in the zone (just 0.01°C due 
to 2 decimals output from res module I think)
I observe a 1.16 W mean difference for convection on transparent 
surfaces (for the bigest zone), and 4.32 W for max difference.

Concerning surfaces temperarures (on inside face), I observe a mean 
deviation of 0.03°C and max deviation of 0.11°C (only for the bigest zone).

Regards,

*Clément MARCEL*
/responsable scientifique et technique/
clement.marcel at viherio.fr <mailto:clement.marcel at viherio.fr>

Viheriö SARL <www.viherio.fr>
22 rue Chateauvert
26000 VALENCE

téléphone | 0 469 305 202
mobile | 06 69 68 32 72
télécopie | 0 469 960 594

web | www.viherio.fr <http://www.viherio.fr>

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Jon Hand a écrit :
> If the order of the surfaces is different the information in the construction and tmc
> files should also probably be different.  Could you be more specific about 'order of surface definitions'?
>
> A difference of 0.02C might just be rounding errors in the simulation.  Actually for two different
> tools to produce models that simulate this close is brilliant!
>
> And temperature differences are only one performance metric out of hundreds. Look for
> additional confirmation - for example as for a zone and several surface energy
> balances for both models.  How do surface temperatures differ?
>
> -Jon Hand
> ________________________________________
> From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Clément MARCEL [clement.marcel at viherio.fr]
> Sent: 03 February 2010 08:36
> To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk
> Subject: [esp-r]  same model gives differents resultas
>
> Hi all,
>
> I've created a simple model with ESP-r that contains :
>
> - a rectangular zone (3*5*2.7 m)
> - an other rectangular zone (2*3*2 m)
> - bases of zones are connected to a ground profile (profile 1 in ESP)
> - all others surfaces are defined as exterior, except for two (one surface on zone 1 is connected to zone 2 and vice versa)
> - all constructions are maded with a 100 mm thickness of insulation material, except ceilings that are a double glazing (transparent construction)
> - no internal gains, infiltration, ventilation
>
> I've created this model with the native windows GTK interface (v 11.7). There are no problems with simulation.
>
> I've also created the same model with another software and export it into ESP format. The model exported is exactly the same :
>
> - vertices coordinates are the same,
> - surfaces definitions are the same,
> - site location, albedo, exposure, ...
> - CON and TMC files are the sames
> - window native v 11.7
>
> The only differences are :
>
> - for materials db I'm using different version of storage (1.1 for the exported model, no information for the model created manually).
> - the order of surfaces definitions is not the same
>
> Can the second point be an explication of the difference of results ? I observe typically a difference in db temperature of 0.02 °C for a simulation on 9 1 to 15 1.
> The order can produce differents matrix for theses models, and perhaps explain theses differences ? or is the solver convergency criteria that can produce theses differences ? or the method used to solve coupled zones ?
>
> Regards,
> Clement Marcel
>
>
> --
> Clément MARCEL
> responsable scientifique et technique
> clement.marcel at viherio.fr<mailto:clement.marcel at viherio.fr>
>
> [cid:part1.06020402.06040501 at viherio.fr]<www.viherio.fr>
> 22 rue Chateauvert
> 26000 VALENCE
>
> téléphone | 0 469 305 202
> mobile | 06 69 68 32 72
> télécopie | 0 469 960 594
>
> web | www.viherio.fr<http://www.viherio.fr>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Ce message et toutes les pièces jointes sont confidentiels et établis à l'intention exclusive de
> son ou ses destinataires. Toute modification, édition, utilisation ou diffusion non autorisée
> est interdite. L'émetteur décline toute responsabilité au titre de ce message s'il a été modifié,
> déformé, falsifié, infecté par un virus ou encore édité ou diffusé sans autorisation.
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
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>   
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