[esp-r] Re: Query: Spatial resolution

Thu Feb 26 21:31:38 GMT 2015

Hi Matthew,

It has been a few years since I looked at it, but Windows 5.1 and Windows
6.0 is software available from LBNL (US government lab) that models windows.
At the time it calculated the glass U-factor based on emmissivities and
calculated the frame thermal properties using FEA.  

I just did a quick search and came up with
http://windows.lbl.gov/software/therm/therm.html .

This seems more capable and is worth checking out.

If you are looking at open source software the LBNL software meets the bill.
Another package that I have used is Code Aster, an FEA package.  There is a
version that comes with a graphical pre/post processor called Salome.  This
is Salome Meca.  The website CAELinux is quite useful for this package.
While this is useful for general purpose FEA, I suspect it will not do
radiation modeling.

For commercial packages that may do radiation as well as FEA, MayaHTT may
have a product.

All the best.
Jake

-----Original Message-----
From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk
[mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Achim Geissler
Sent: February 26, 2015 4:17 PM
To: matthew.wright at c4ci.eu
Cc: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk; 'Jon Hand'
Subject: [esp-r] Re: Query: Spatial resolution

Hi Matthew,

as far as I understand what you want to do (thermal glass breakage?),
neither CFD nor "high detailing" will help - you need 2d heat flow. This
would be the obscure 2d/3d conduction model Jon mentioned. However, I would
expect this never worked with transparent materials, anyway. 

Depending on your tool park, a "real" CFD or a FE package would be a
possibility. Or dynamic thermal bridge software (HEAT2D or HEAT3D,
Trisco/Voltra, others).

4wiw.

Best
Achim

On Feb 26, 2015, at 8:06 PM, "Matthew Wright" <matthew.wright at c4ci.eu>
wrote:

> HI Jon,
> 
> It's an attempt to see real time temperatures in a glazing and aluminium
extrusion model, to pick up temperature gradients across the glass.
> This would appear to be against the grain in ESP-r, but I thought I would
ask.
> Resolution to 100mm, 10mm or even 3mm would be fantastic.
> I would probably have a steep learning curve in presenting the results,
which I guess would have to be post processed to be seen graphically, but a
temperature field matrix, is obviously the goal, (not necessarily pretty
pictures). 
> 
> 
> Regards
> 
> Matt
> Matthew Wright MA Physics (Oxon) PGCE
> Physicist
> 
> e: Matthew.Wright at c4ci.eu
> m: +44 (0)7908030742
> p: +44 (0)1823 617166
> 
> P Please think before you print !
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jon Hand [mailto:jon at esru.strath.ac.uk]
> Sent: 26 February 2015 16:55
> To: matthew.wright at c4ci.eu; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk
> Subject: RE: [esp-r] Query: Spatial resolution
> 
> 
> Users are in charge of defining the CFD domain gridding (and we are just
testing out code that supports multiple CFD domains in a model). The current
implementation the grid the user defines is used throughout the assessment.
It is not possible to alter the definition of the grid during the
assessment, however boundary conditions and wall functions are re-evaluated
at each timestep and of course heat into cells picked up during the
assessment is tracked.
> 
> The ground model would have a fixed definition of the grid and the
thermophysical properties of associated entities.  So one could not have
'mud' in the ground at one time of the assessment and dust at a different
point of the assessment with the current implementation.  Similarly a
temporary leak in a pipe in the ground could not be corrected during an
assessment.
> 
> And if you really are passionate about altering how ESP-r works it is
distributed under GPL and you can alter the code and you can run it in a
single-step debug mode to see exactly how the solution is progressing and
test out new ideas.
> 
> And I have created ESP-r models where the extrusions of the facade are
explicitly treated as zones so some aspects of geometry of facades could be
treated at a user defined level.  There is also a 2D and 3D conduction model
- but almost no one remembers how to use that.
> 
> Can you tell us more about [fine meshed spatial grid]?
> 
> Regards, Jon Hand
> ________________________________________
> From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk 
> [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] on behalf of Matthew Wright 
> [matthew.wright at c4ci.eu]
> Sent: 26 February 2015 15:35
> To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk
> Subject: [esp-r]  Query: Spatial resolution
> 
> Hi Jon/all,
> 
> I am aware that the CFD, and an old ground heat flow, simulation modules
resolve a detailed spatial grid.
> 
> Firstly
> Am I correct in my understanding that ESP-r does not do this generally?
> 
> Secondly
> If analysing glazing or similar items, is it possible to create a time
dependent, fine meshed spatial grid in ESP-r?
> 
> Thanks in advance for any advice!
> 
> Regards
> 
> Matt
> Matthew Wright MA Physics (Oxon) PGCE
> Physicist
> 
> e: Matthew.Wright at c4ci.eu
> m: +44 (0)7908030742
> p: +44 (0)1823 617166
> 
> P Please think before you print !
> 
> This e-mail including attachments is confidential, may be covered by legal
professional privilege and is intended for the addressee only. If you are
not the intended recipient you are prohibited from printing, copying or
distributing it.
> 
> If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender
immediately by e-mail, fax or by telephone and delete this e-mail from your
system. Thank you.
> 
> C4Ci Ltd Registered Address: (Registered in England No. 06455265)
Atticus House     2 The Windmills     Turk Street     Alton     Hampshire
GU34 1EF     UK
> 
> 
> 
> 
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achim.geissler at intergga.ch

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