[esp-r] Re: Query: Spatial resolution

[Achim Geissler]

Hi Matthew,

as far as I understand what you want to do (thermal glass breakage?), neither CFD nor "high detailing" will help - you need 2d heat flow. This would be the obscure 2d/3d conduction model Jon mentioned. However, I would expect this never worked with transparent materials, anyway. 

Depending on your tool park, a "real" CFD or a FE package would be a possibility. Or dynamic thermal bridge software (HEAT2D or HEAT3D, Trisco/Voltra, others).

4wiw.

Best
Achim


On Feb 26, 2015, at 8:06 PM, "Matthew Wright" <matthew.wright at c4ci.eu> wrote:

> HI Jon,
> 
> It's an attempt to see real time temperatures in a glazing and aluminium extrusion model, to pick up temperature gradients across the glass.
> This would appear to be against the grain in ESP-r, but I thought I would ask.
> Resolution to 100mm, 10mm or even 3mm would be fantastic.
> I would probably have a steep learning curve in presenting the results, which I guess would have to be post processed to be seen graphically, but a temperature field matrix, is obviously the goal, (not necessarily pretty pictures). 
> 
> 
> Regards
> 
> Matt
> Matthew Wright MA Physics (Oxon) PGCE
> Physicist
> 
> e: Matthew.Wright at c4ci.eu
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> p: +44 (0)1823 617166
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jon Hand [mailto:jon at esru.strath.ac.uk] 
> Sent: 26 February 2015 16:55
> To: matthew.wright at c4ci.eu; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk
> Subject: RE: [esp-r] Query: Spatial resolution
> 
> 
> Users are in charge of defining the CFD domain gridding (and we are just testing out code that supports multiple CFD domains in a model). The current implementation the grid the user defines is used throughout the assessment. It is not possible to alter the definition of the grid during the assessment, however boundary conditions and wall functions are re-evaluated at each timestep and of course heat into cells picked up during the assessment is tracked.
> 
> The ground model would have a fixed definition of the grid and the thermophysical properties of associated entities.  So one could not have 'mud' in the ground at one time of the assessment and dust at a different point of the assessment with the current implementation.  Similarly a temporary leak in a pipe in the ground could not be corrected during an assessment.
> 
> And if you really are passionate about altering how ESP-r works it is distributed under GPL and you can alter the code and you can run it in a single-step debug mode to see exactly how the solution is progressing and test out new ideas.
> 
> And I have created ESP-r models where the extrusions of the facade are explicitly treated as zones so some aspects of geometry of facades could be treated at a user defined level.  There is also a 2D and 3D conduction model - but almost no one remembers how to use that.
> 
> Can you tell us more about [fine meshed spatial grid]?
> 
> Regards, Jon Hand
> ________________________________________
> From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] on behalf of Matthew Wright [matthew.wright at c4ci.eu]
> Sent: 26 February 2015 15:35
> To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk
> Subject: [esp-r]  Query: Spatial resolution
> 
> Hi Jon/all,
> 
> I am aware that the CFD, and an old ground heat flow, simulation modules resolve a detailed spatial grid.
> 
> Firstly
> Am I correct in my understanding that ESP-r does not do this generally?
> 
> Secondly
> If analysing glazing or similar items, is it possible to create a time dependent, fine meshed spatial grid in ESP-r?
> 
> Thanks in advance for any advice!
> 
> Regards
> 
> Matt
> Matthew Wright MA Physics (Oxon) PGCE
> Physicist
> 
> e: Matthew.Wright at c4ci.eu
> m: +44 (0)7908030742
> p: +44 (0)1823 617166
> 
>  Please think before you print !
> 
> This e-mail including attachments is confidential, may be covered by legal professional privilege and is intended for the addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient you are prohibited from printing, copying or distributing it.
> 
> If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by e-mail, fax or by telephone and delete this e-mail from your system. Thank you.
> 
> C4Ci Ltd Registered Address: (Registered in England No. 06455265)     Atticus House     2 The Windmills     Turk Street     Alton     Hampshire     GU34 1EF     UK
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> 
> 
> 
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achim.geissler at intergga.ch