[esp-r] Re: question about the Ish module (glbrune at polimi.it)

[Marco Manzan]

In data giovedì 04 agosto 2011 18:30:02, esp-r-request at lists.strath.ac.uk ha 
scritto:
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>    1. Re: question about the Ish module (glbrune at polimi.it)
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> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
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> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 04 Aug 2011 09:45:20 +0200
> From: glbrune at polimi.it
> Subject: [esp-r] Re: question about the Ish module
> To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk
> Cc: gianluca.brunetti at polimi.it
> Message-ID: <20110804094520.27371yl26hx7g9a8 at webmail.polimi.it>
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> Dear Achim, Jon, others,
> I think that the rightest way to take reflectivity into account in the
> insolation calculations would be to treat reflextions with raytracing
> principles in the code of ish, but presently I don't feel capable of
> doing this, at least in a reasonable amount of time, and I don't know
> if I ever will. The kind of use of the existing coupling with Radiance
> I am thinking of is computationally redundant, but (i hope) it should
> also be reasonably simple to implement and wouldn't touch the ESP-r
> nor the Radiance existing code.
> 
> Both fortunately and unfortunately I will be able to work on it just
> part-part time in August. I will work on it mainly from September.
> 
> This functionality would be very useful to me in the next months.
> 
> Best regards
> 
> Gian Luca
> 
> > Def. Quota Geissler Achim <achim.geissler at fhnw.ch>:
> >> Dear Gian Luca, Jon, others
> >> 
> >> I agree that it would be very good to extend the properties of
> >> exterior obstructions with reflectance. We suggested this some
> >> years ago in context with the increasing use of quite reflective
> >> "Louvre" types of shading elements (brushed steel or aluminum,
> >> light grey or white carbon wings and similar) on commercial high
> >> rise buildings.
> >> 
> >> Also, reflective obstructions would surely enhance the accuracy of
> >> calculated gains (and daylighting performance) for northerly
> >> elevations facing reflective opposite buildings.
> >> 
> >> Recently, obstructions were extended for transparency. Therefore,
> >> the next logical step would be to add reflectivity. To my
> >> knowledge, none of the comparable simulation programs takes this
> >> into account, either.
> >> 
> >> Best
> >> Achim
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
> >> Von: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk
> >> [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] Im Auftrag von Gian Luca
> >> Brunetti
> >> Gesendet: Dienstag, 2. August 2011 04:02
> >> An: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk; jon at esru.strath.ac.uk
> >> Cc: gianluca.brunetti at polimi.it
> >> Betreff: [esp-r] Re: question about the Ish module
> >> 
> >> I think that the main limitations of the program would be the following:
> >> - it would underestimate the increase of insolations values in the
> >> case that even the gain of the most insolated surface turns out to
> >> be increased by the reflections due to obstructions, since that
> >> value is kept fixed to scale all the others
> >> - nothing would be done to take into account the irradiation
> >> increase due to the reflections caused by the obstructions due to
> >> the sky diffuse component
> >> - the computations would just regard interior surfaces and not exterior
> >> ones
> > 
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> End of esp-r Digest, Vol 61, Issue 2
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hi all

this kind of problem has been already been addressed in the following paper

 http://www.ibpsa.org/proceedings/BS2003/BS03_0571_576.pdf

Milan Janak used Radiance to obtain pre-calculated ittadiance levels for 
shading devices. This could be a start. The problem is that Radiance is very 
computational intensive and the timings for a illuminance run are orders 
higher than the ones for energy calculation, may be of the order of hours 
against some minutes, it depends on the size of the problem and the parameters 
with wich Radiance is invoked. Nevertheless in some circumstances the 
additional information that can be retived could be very important.

bye

Marco
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|Marco Manzan               Email: manzan at units.it     |
|Tel:   (+39) 040 5583506   Fax  : (+39) 040  572033   |
|Dipartimento di Ingegneria Meccannica e Navale        |
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