[esp-r] Re: Heating and Cooling Loads
Tang, David
David.Tang at owenscorning.com
Fri Sep 11 06:58:30 BST 2009
this concludes the first round of test. As before, esp-r slightly under estimated loads.
[cid:394145205 at 11092009-351E]
Regards,
David Tang
Chief Engineer, Energy Solutions
Owens Corning
T: +86 21 6101 9587; F: +86 21 6101 9588; m: +86 13817249419
________________________________
From: Xing, Nina
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 1:36 PM
To: Rodrigo Perez; 'Felipe Durán'
Cc: Tang, David; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk; Tang, Kevin; 'leen peeters'
Subject: RE: [esp-r] Re: Heating and Cooling Loads
Hi, all
I had tried the simulation using both DesignBuilder and eQuest.
The results showed the difference between them is tiny.
DB Heating 8.88kW Cooling 3.66kW
eQ Heating 8.73kW Cooling 3.04kW
Best regards.
Nina Xing 邢娜
Energy Solutions
Owens Corning
• +86 21 6101 9590
7 +86 21 6101 9588
( +86 1361 1986 052
________________________________
From: Rodrigo Perez [mailto:rodrigo.jpg at gmail.com]
Sent: 2009年9月11日 3:12
To: 'Felipe Durán'
Cc: Tang, David; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk; Tang, Kevin; 'leen peeters'; Xing, Nina
Subject: RE: [esp-r] Re: Heating and Cooling Loads
Felipe and David,
Simulating the same model proposed by David in DesingBuilder, I have the following result:
Heating 8,99 Kw.
Cooling 2,44 Kw.
Kind Regards,
Rodrigo Perez.
[cid:394145205 at 11092009-3525]
________________________________
De: Felipe Durán [mailto:felipe at b-green.cl]
Enviado el: jueves, 10 de septiembre de 2009 14:39
Para: Felipe Durán
CC: Tang, David; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk; Tang, Kevin; leen peeters; Xing, Nina; Rodrigo Perez
Asunto: Re: [esp-r] Re: Heating and Cooling Loads
David,
I made a mistake and I simulated with esp-r using London Climate.
The rectified cooling and heating loads using CHL_Santiago_IWEC.epw for the 1 zone 10x10x3 concrete box are:
IES_VE 14,66 kW (heating) 5.27 kW (cooling)
ESP-r 8,029 kW (heating) 2,24 kW (cooling)
Kind Regards,
Felipe Durán Palma
Arquitecto PUC, MPhil. U. Cambridge
Director de Proyectos y Asesorías
[cid:394145205 at 11092009-352C]
Obispo Donoso 5 oficina 62 - Providencia - Santiago
felipe at b-green.cl<mailto:felipe at b-green.cl> - www.b-green.cl<http://www.b-green.cl> - 56 (2) 3431868
El 10 Sep 2009, a las 13:31, Felipe Durán escribió:
David,
Thank you for your help.
The results of the 1 zone 10x10x3 concrete box are:
IES_VE 14,66 kW (heating) 5,27 kW (cooling)
ESP-r 11,90 kW (heating) 1,86 kW (cooling)
1. Geometry: 1 zones of 10 m x 10 m x 3 m high.
2. Materials (outside to inside)
2.1 External Wall: Cast Concrete 0,2m, U-value = 3,1963 (W/m2K)
2.2 Roof: Cast Concrete 0,2 U-value = 3,5354 (W/m2K)
2.3 Ground Floor: Cast Concrete 0.2 m, U-value = 2.8340 (W/m2K)
3. Boundary Conditions: All the walls and the roof faces the outside. The ground floor faces the ground.
4. Run Period: 1/1 31/12 (whole year)
5.No Internal gains
6. Climate file CHL_Santiago_IWEC.epw (from the energyplus database)
7. Comfort band 20 Cº-24Cº, on Heating and Cooling Profile: continiously
8. No Ventilation
Thank you again
Felipe Durán Palma
Arquitecto PUC, MPhil. U. Cambridge
Director de Proyectos y Asesorías
<pastedGraphic.tiff>
Obispo Donoso 5 oficina 62 - Providencia - Santiago
felipe at b-green.cl<mailto:felipe at b-green.cl> - www.b-green.cl<http://www.b-green.cl> - 56 (2) 3431868
El 9 Sep 2009, a las 22:56, Tang, David escribió:
Felipe,
I'd like to start with your 'a zone of 10 x 10 x 3 mt. high with no ventilation and no internal gains' model which is an excellent case to evaluate the fundamental algorithms.
Please provide info of that model likewise.
Having worked at IES-VE for 8+ years and coded part of Apache-sim and the whole of macroflo, it is interesting to see how it works from user's point of view.
Regards,
David Tang
Chief Engineer, Energy Solutions
Owens Corning
T: +86 21 6101 9587; F: +86 21 6101 9588; m: +86 13817249419
From: Felipe Durán [mailto:felipe at b-green.cl]
Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 1:01 AM
To: Tang, David
Cc: leen peeters; Tang, Kevin; Xing, Nina; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk<mailto:esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk>; Rodrigo Perez
Subject: Re: [esp-r] Re: Heating and Cooling Loads
David and Rodrigo,
Thank you for your help.
I`ve simplify the model and the results of the 3-floor office building are:
IES_VE 390 kW (heating) 123 kW (cooling)
ESP-r 246 kW (heating) 205 kW (cooling)
The model conditions of the 3-floor office building are:
IES_VE 390 kW (heating) 123 kW (cooling)
1. Geometry: 3 zones of 25 m x 60 m x 2.5 m high. 40% of glazing ratio for all the orientations
2. Orientation: North towards the long side (25 meters)
3. Materials (outside to inside)
3.1 External Wall: cast concrete 0,2m, Polystyrene 0.02m, Gypsum Plasterboard 0,01m. U-value = 0.9597 (W/m2K)
3.2 Window: Double glazing, clear float 6mm + 12mm cavity. U-Value=2.82 (W/m2K)
3.3 Roof: Cast concrete (lightweight) 0.05m, Polystyrene 0.15m, cast concrete 0,15m. U-value = 0.1859 (W/m2K)
3.4 Ground Floor: Cast Concrete 0.15 m, polystyrene 0.05 m, U-value = 0.5041 (W/m2K)
3.5 Slabs: cast Concrete 0.15, U-value = 3,2558 (W/m2K)
4. Boundary Conditions: All the walls and the roof faces the outside. The slabs are interiors and only the ground floor faces the grund.
5. Run Period: 1/1 31/12 (whole year)
6. Internal gains: Occupancy 6 m2/person (70 W Sensible, 35 W latent), Lighting 8 W/m2, Equipment 5 W7m2. All the time for the whole year, including nights, weekends, etc.
7. Climate file CHL_Santiago_IWEC.epw (from the energyplus database)
8. Comfort band 20 Cº-24Cº
9. Ventilation: infiltration 0.25 (ach/h), auxiliari ventilatios 3.25 (ach/h) on ESP-r infiltration of 3.25 (ach/h)
Thank you again
Felipe Durán Palma
Arquitecto PUC, MPhil. U. Cambridge
Director de Proyectos y Asesorías
Obispo Donoso 5 oficina 62 - Providencia - Santiago
felipe at b-green.cl<mailto:felipe at b-green.cl> - www.b-green.cl<http://www.b-green.cl> - 56 (2) 3431868
El 9 Sep 2009, a las 00:22, Tang, David escribió:
Describe your model we'll run DOE2 and EnergyPlus to see who's right.
geometry,
orientation
wall, window, roof materials,
boundary conditions (is the wall contact outside, ground, other indoor space?)
run period (from mm/dd to mm/dd),
etc.
as detail as possible.
Regards,
David Tang
Chief Engineer, Energy Solutions
Owens Corning
T: +86 21 6101 9587; F: +86 21 6101 9588; m: +86 13817249419
From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk<mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk> [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Felipe Durán
Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 5:10 AM
To: leen peeters
Cc: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk<mailto:esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk>
Subject: [esp-r] Re: Heating and Cooling Loads
Leen,
I am working with the EPW climate file of Santiago de Chile in both soft wares. I ve modelled a zone of 10 x 10 x 3 mt. high with no ventilation and no internal gains. The results are:
ESP-r = 11.9 (heating), 1.86 (cooling)
IES = 14.6 (heating), 5.2 (cooling)
Now we got great differences in the cooling load. IES gave me 3 times more cooling loads than ESP-r
Any ideas how to go proceed?
Felipe Durán Palma
Arquitecto PUC, MPhil. U. Cambridge
Director de Proyectos y Asesorías
Obispo Donoso 5 oficina 62 - Providencia - Santiago
felipe at b-green.cl<mailto:felipe at b-green.cl> - www.b-green.cl<http://www.b-green.cl> - 56 (2) 3431868
El 8 Sep 2009, a las 16:49, leen peeters escribió:
Felipe,
set you climate to some artifical constant climqte with constant temperature, constant solar radiation,... That is one more set of variables excluded
Leen
2009/9/8 Felipe Durán <felipe at b-green.cl<mailto:felipe at b-green.cl>>
Dear Samuel and Leen,
Actually, when I found out such big differences I ve modelled a very simple 3-zone model and the differences persist.
I will try out with a simple box without ventilation and internal gains and I will let you know the results.
Thank you all for your help.
Felipe Durán Palma
Arquitecto PUC, MPhil. U. Cambridge
Director de Proyectos y Asesorías
<pastedGraphic.tiff>
Obispo Donoso 5 oficina 62 - Providencia - Santiago
felipe at b-green.cl<mailto:felipe at b-green.cl> - www.b-green.cl<http://www.b-green.cl/> - 56 (2) 3431868
El 8 Sep 2009, a las 13:19, Aizaz Samuel escribió:
Try reducing your model complexity by modelling just one zone with minimal
information possible. Simulate for just one day. If the two softwares compare
well keep building up the model in complexity.
-Aizaz
On Tuesday 08 September 2009 17:41, Felipe Durán wrote:
Dear All,
I am modeling in both ESP-r and IES-VE and office building and the results
for heating and cooling loads are very different.
ESP-r = 269 kW (heating); 237 kW (cooling)
IES-VE = 835 kW (Heating); 360 kW (cooling)
Does anyone had a similar experience with such differences?
Kind Regards,
Felipe Durán Palma
Arquitecto PUC, MPhil. U. Cambridge
Director de Proyectos y Asesorías
[cid:B9AD3F91-76F4-4F37-8A2C-7A559281C059<http://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&ik=8c428781db&view=att&th=1239aec006a1c658&attid=0.0.1.1&disp=emb&zw>]
Obispo Donoso 5 oficina 62 - Providencia - Santiago
felipe at b-green.cl<mailto:felipe at b-green.cl><mailto:felipe at b-green.cl> -
www.b-green.cl<http://www.b-green.cl><http://www.b-green.cl<http://www.b-green.cl/>> - 56 (2) 3431868
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