[esp-r] Re: Heating and Cooling Loads

Thu Sep 10 20:12:26 BST 2009

Felipe and David,

Simulating the same model proposed by David in DesingBuilder, I have the
following result:

Heating            8,99 Kw.

Cooling            2,44 Kw.

Kind Regards,

Rodrigo Perez.

  _____  

De: Felipe Durán [mailto:felipe at b-green.cl] 
Enviado el: jueves, 10 de septiembre de 2009 14:39
Para: Felipe Durán
CC: Tang, David; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk; Tang, Kevin; leen peeters; Xing,
Nina; Rodrigo Perez
Asunto: Re: [esp-r] Re: Heating and Cooling Loads

David,

I made a mistake and I simulated with esp-r using London Climate.

The rectified cooling and heating loads using CHL_Santiago_IWEC.epw for the
1 zone 10x10x3 concrete box are:

IES_VE 14,66 kW (heating) 5.27 kW (cooling)

ESP-r 8,029 kW (heating) 2,24 kW (cooling)

Kind Regards,

Felipe Durán Palma

Arquitecto PUC, MPhil. U. Cambridge

Director de Proyectos y Asesorías

Obispo Donoso 5 oficina 62 - Providencia - Santiago

felipe at b-green.cl - www.b-green.cl - 56 (2) 3431868

El 10 Sep 2009, a las 13:31, Felipe Durán escribió:

David,

Thank you for your help.

The results of the 1 zone 10x10x3 concrete box are:

IES_VE   14,66 kW (heating) 5,27 kW (cooling)

ESP-r      11,90 kW (heating)   1,86 kW (cooling)

1. Geometry: 1 zones of 10 m x 10 m x 3 m high. 

2. Materials (outside to inside)

2.1 External Wall: Cast Concrete 0,2m,  U-value = 3,1963 (W/m2K)

2.2 Roof: Cast Concrete 0,2  U-value = 3,5354 (W/m2K)

2.3 Ground Floor: Cast Concrete 0.2 m, U-value = 2.8340 (W/m2K)

3. Boundary Conditions: All the walls and the roof faces the outside. The
ground floor faces the ground.

4. Run Period: 1/1 31/12 (whole year)

5.No Internal gains

6. Climate file CHL_Santiago_IWEC.epw (from the energyplus database)

7.  Comfort band 20 Cº-24Cº, on Heating and Cooling Profile: continiously

8. No Ventilation

Thank you again

Felipe Durán Palma

Arquitecto PUC, MPhil. U. Cambridge

Director de Proyectos y Asesorías

<pastedGraphic.tiff>

Obispo Donoso 5 oficina 62 - Providencia - Santiago

felipe at b-green.cl - www.b-green.cl - 56 (2) 3431868

El 9 Sep 2009, a las 22:56, Tang, David escribió:

Felipe,

I'd like to start with your 'a zone of 10 x 10 x 3 mt. high with no
ventilation and no internal gains' model which is an excellent case to
evaluate the fundamental algorithms.

Please provide info of that model likewise.

Having worked at IES-VE for 8+ years and coded part of Apache-sim and the
whole of macroflo, it is interesting to see how it works from user's point
of view.

Regards, 

David Tang 
Chief Engineer, Energy Solutions 
Owens Corning 
T: +86 21 6101 9587; F: +86 21 6101 9588; m: +86 13817249419 

From: Felipe Durán [mailto:felipe at b-green.cl] 
Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 1:01 AM
To: Tang, David
Cc: leen peeters; Tang, Kevin; Xing, Nina; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk; Rodrigo
Perez
Subject: Re: [esp-r] Re: Heating and Cooling Loads

David and Rodrigo, 

Thank you for your help.

I`ve simplify the model and the results of the 3-floor office building are:

IES_VE   390 kW (heating) 123 kW (cooling)

ESP-r     246 kW (heating)  205 kW (cooling)

The model conditions of the 3-floor office building are:

IES_VE 390 kW (heating) 123 kW (cooling)

1. Geometry: 3 zones of 25 m x 60 m x 2.5 m high. 40% of glazing ratio for
all the orientations

2. Orientation: North towards the long side (25 meters)

3. Materials (outside to inside)

3.1 External Wall: cast concrete 0,2m, Polystyrene 0.02m, Gypsum
Plasterboard 0,01m. U-value = 0.9597 (W/m2K)

3.2 Window: Double glazing, clear float 6mm + 12mm cavity. U-Value=2.82
(W/m2K)

3.3 Roof: Cast concrete (lightweight) 0.05m, Polystyrene 0.15m, cast
concrete 0,15m. U-value = 0.1859 (W/m2K)

3.4 Ground Floor: Cast Concrete 0.15 m, polystyrene 0.05 m, U-value = 0.5041
(W/m2K)

3.5 Slabs: cast Concrete 0.15, U-value = 3,2558 (W/m2K)

4. Boundary Conditions: All the walls and the roof faces the outside. The
slabs are interiors and only the ground floor faces the grund.

5. Run Period: 1/1 31/12 (whole year)

6. Internal gains: Occupancy 6 m2/person (70 W Sensible, 35 W latent),
Lighting 8 W/m2, Equipment 5 W7m2. All the time for the whole year,
including nights, weekends, etc.

7. Climate file CHL_Santiago_IWEC.epw (from the energyplus database)

8.  Comfort band 20 Cº-24Cº

9. Ventilation: infiltration 0.25 (ach/h), auxiliari ventilatios 3.25
(ach/h) on ESP-r  infiltration of 3.25 (ach/h)

Thank you again

Felipe Durán Palma

Arquitecto PUC, MPhil. U. Cambridge

Director de Proyectos y Asesorías

Obispo Donoso 5 oficina 62 - Providencia - Santiago

felipe at b-green.cl - www.b-green.cl - 56 (2) 3431868

El 9 Sep 2009, a las 00:22, Tang, David escribió:

Describe your model we'll run DOE2 and EnergyPlus to see who's right.

geometry, 

orientation

wall, window, roof materials, 

boundary conditions (is the wall contact outside, ground, other indoor
space?)

run period (from mm/dd to mm/dd), 

etc. 

as detail as possible.

Regards, 

David Tang 
Chief Engineer, Energy Solutions 
Owens Corning 
T: +86 21 6101 9587; F: +86 21 6101 9588; m: +86 13817249419 

From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk
[mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Felipe Durán
Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 5:10 AM
To: leen peeters
Cc: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk
Subject: [esp-r] Re: Heating and Cooling Loads

Leen, 

I am working with the EPW climate file of Santiago de Chile in both soft
wares. I ve modelled a zone of 10 x 10 x 3 mt. high with no ventilation and
no internal gains. The results are:

ESP-r = 11.9 (heating), 1.86 (cooling)

IES = 14.6 (heating), 5.2 (cooling)

Now we got great differences in the cooling load. IES gave me 3 times more
cooling loads than ESP-r

Any ideas how to go proceed?

Felipe Durán Palma

Arquitecto PUC, MPhil. U. Cambridge

Director de Proyectos y Asesorías

Obispo Donoso 5 oficina 62 - Providencia - Santiago

felipe at b-green.cl - www.b-green.cl - 56 (2) 3431868

El 8 Sep 2009, a las 16:49, leen peeters escribió:

Felipe,

set you climate to some artifical constant climqte with constant
temperature, constant solar radiation,... That is one more set of variables
excluded

Leen

2009/9/8 Felipe Durán <felipe at b-green.cl>

Dear Samuel and Leen, 

Actually, when I found out such big differences I ve modelled a very simple
3-zone model and the differences persist. 

I will try out with a simple box without ventilation and internal gains and
I will let you know the results. 

Thank you all for your help.

Felipe Durán Palma

Arquitecto PUC, MPhil. U. Cambridge

Director de Proyectos y Asesorías

<pastedGraphic.tiff> 

Obispo Donoso 5 oficina 62 - Providencia - Santiago

felipe at b-green.cl - www.b-green.cl <http://www.b-green.cl/>  - 56 (2)
3431868

El 8 Sep 2009, a las 13:19, Aizaz Samuel escribió:

Try reducing your model complexity by modelling just one zone with minimal 
information possible. Simulate for just one day. If the two softwares
compare 
well keep building up the model in complexity.

-Aizaz

On Tuesday 08 September 2009 17:41, Felipe Durán wrote:

Dear All,

I am modeling in both ESP-r and IES-VE and office building and the results

for heating and cooling loads are very different.

 ESP-r = 269 kW (heating); 237 kW (cooling)
IES-VE = 835 kW (Heating); 360 kW (cooling)

 Does anyone had a similar experience with such differences?

Kind Regards,

Felipe Durán Palma
Arquitecto PUC, MPhil. U. Cambridge
Director de Proyectos y Asesorías
[cid:B9AD3F91-76F4-4F37-8A2C-7A559281C059
<http://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&ik=8c428781db&view=att&th=1239aec006a1c65
8&attid=0.0.1.1&disp=emb&zw> ]
Obispo Donoso 5 oficina 62 - Providencia - Santiago
felipe at b-green.cl<mailto:felipe at b-green.cl> -
www.b-green.cl<http://www.b-green.cl <http://www.b-green.cl/> > - 56 (2)
3431868

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