[esp-r] Re: Proposed development of window shading models

[Geissler Achim]

Hi Gunter,
good point on azimuth angle (if it was not already being focused on). However, what WIS actually models in regard to angle dependany is not so clear to me.
	- cut off by Venetian type blinds is definitely modelled.
	- other than that, comparison calculations seem to imply that all the angle dependant results are simply calculated by the Fresnel equation.
	- The paper on "new model" for Venetian type blinds: The blinds considered are, of course, relatively special cases. It would be interesting to see differences for more "standard" types of Venetian blinds. Additionally, I do not understand why "0°" and "cut-off" gives the same discrepancy. Anyway, for typical control scenarios "blind down and closed if sun", I assume the simple models do O.K. for most cases.
Enhancing the model capabilities of ESP-r in this regard is very interesting for us, in any case! However, an interesting question (at least here in Europe) will be: How do results / performance parameters gained with enhanced models fit in with the EPBD-oriented planning / calculation tools (for Germany e.g. DIN 18599)?

Mit freundlichen Grüssen / Best regards
 
Achim Geissler

> -----Original Message-----
> From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-
> bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Pueltz, Gunter
> Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 8:30 AM
> To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk
> Cc: 'Bart Lomanowski'
> Subject: [esp-r] Re: Proposed development of window shading models
> 
> Bart,
> 
> a short info concerning transmission and absorption of each layer of a
> tmc:
> 
> The European software "Advanced Window Information System (WIS)",
> Version 3.0.1, des Window Energy Data Network (WinDat), coordinated
> by TNO Building and Construction Research (TNO Bouw), Department:
> Sustainable Energy and Buildings (DEG), The Netherlands (details
> see http://windat.ucd.ie/wis/html/index.html)
> 
> is able to calculate both the overall transmission as well as the
> absorption
> in each layer of a facade WITH venetian blinds as a function of sun
> altitude
> angle (this is the "profile angle" you suggested). The WIS software is
> similar
> to the WINDOW-software from LBNL, but also treats venetian blinds.
> Therefore you should use the software WIS for the enhanced window model in
> ESP-r ...
> An interface between WIS and ESP-r would be a great help for ESP-users !!
> 
> But also WIS shows a crued defect: It is NOT able to take the azimuth
> angle
> of
> the sun into account. A recent work from Mr. Kuhn, Fraunhofer-Institute of
> solar
> energy systems in Freiburg, Germany, has shown, that this defect may yield
> -
> at critical
> sun angles - to an underestimation of solar heat gain of appr.
> 100% !!!!!!!
> Therefore it would be the best - for my opinion -, if the new enhanced
> facade model
> (glazing AND blinds) takes into account ALL relevant angles:
> - the slope angle of the blinds
> - the sun heigt angle (or the profile angle)
> - the sun azimuth angle
> Concerning this topic, Mr. Kuhn has developed a new, enhanced algorithm (I
> assume
> based on raytracing), which considers all these angles. Please see
> 
> 1) Tilmann E Kuhn, Solar Control: A general evaluation method for facades
> with venetian blinds or other solar control systems, Energy and
> Buildings, 38 (2006), 648-660.
> 
> 2) Tilmann E Kuhn, Solar Control: Comparison of two new systems with the
> state-of-the-art on the basis of a new general evaluation method for
> facades with venetian blinds or other solar control systems, Energy and
> Buildings, 38 (2006), 661-672.
> 
> You can also find more information about this new algorithm at the
> IBPSA-Germany
> website at http://129.187.44.165/konferenz/paper/2006/108.pdf
> 
> I propose that you contact Mr. Kuhn directly, because he has already told
> his
> willingness to support or even participate the code enhancement of ESP-r.
> His contact data are following:
> 
> Dipl.-Phys. Tilmann E. Kuhn
> Head of Group Solar Facades and Durability Analysis
> Dept. Thermal Systems and Buildings
> Fraunhofer Institut für Solare Energiesysteme ISE
> Heidenhofstr. 2, 79110 Freiburg, Germany
> Phone: +49 (0) 761/ 4588-5297  Fax: +49 (0)761/ 4588-9297
> tilmann.kuhn at ise.fraunhofer.de
> http://www.ise.fraunhofer.de
> 
> As a stupid ESP user I would appreciate it greatly if all experts for
> facade
> modelling
> cooperate for the enhancement of facade modelling in ESP-r  ....
> 
> Regards,
> Gunter
> 
> --
> Dr. Gunter Pültz
> 
> Müller-BBM GmbH
> Robert-Koch-Straße 11
> 82152 Planegg
> Telefon +49(89)85602-336
> Telefax +49(89)85602-111
> http://www.MuellerBBM.de
> 
> HRB München 86143
> Geschäftsführer: Bernd Grözinger, Dr. Edwin Schorer, Norbert Suritsch
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk
> > [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk]On Behalf Of Bart Lomanowski
> > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 3:45 PM
> > To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk
> > Subject: [esp-r] Re: Proposed development of window shading models
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks for all the feedback, I appreciate the interest this
> > subject has
> > generated.
> >
> > I've attached some ppt slides outlining in more detail our
> > model capabilities,
> > the ESP-r development proposal in broad strokes, and some
> > implementation issues
> > for discussion. What I am most interested in is the
> > capabilities of other
> > ongoing developments (e.g., SHOCC) and the expected
> > interactions of these
> > facilities with transparent constructions. Ideally I would
> > like to retain
> > generality with respect to the window shading developments to ensure
> > functionality with other windows related projects. I hope a
> > brief discussion
> > will be possible at the Developer's conference to shed some
> > light on this.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Bart Lomanowski
> > University of Waterloo
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
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