[esp-r] Re: 1) Bi-directional Doors in Horiontal surfaces2)Dummy-nodescheme

Wed Sep 13 09:10:49 BST 2006

Hi Jake, Olli,
the height scheme always is a bit confusing. My understanding is different from Olli's, however:
zone  to exterior via skylight (node to node via component)
diff height -ve node to component & diff height component to +ve node
In the example this would lead to an entry in the .afn file something like
+Node         dHght   -Node         dHght   via Component
zone           1.5   ext.node        0.5     skylight

Leading to the height difference of 2 m between the nodes "zone" and "exterior" with the flow resistance "skylight 1.5 m above the zone node

So, in my understanding there would be no height difference in the from and to nodes in the way Olli gave it.

... lets see what ESRU has to say :^)

Anyway, I think Jake was looking for something else: I don't know if the door component will give meaningfull results when used "horizontally". However, for the atrium problem, why not define two components and link them with the top and bottom nodes in such a way that bypass flow (or flow in two directions) is possible? Generally, any atrium of appreciable size will need to be split in several zones, anyway, to model the stack effect.

Regards,
Achim

> -----Original Message-----
> From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-
> bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Oliver Bucks
> Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 9:56 AM
> To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk
> Subject: [esp-r] Re: 1) Bi-directional Doors in Horiontal surfaces2)Dummy-
> nodescheme
> 
> Jake,
> 
> I'm not an expert, but I think I have overcome this problem when
> simulating big
> trombe walls. The delta H should be precisely that between the nodes....
> eg, a
> horizontal skylight with an exterior node @ 0.5m above the skylight, and
> the
> zonal node @ 1.5m below the skylight, the delta H would be 2m and -2m.....
> 
> I might be wrong though
> 
> Olli Bucks
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jake Zwart" <jake.zwart at sympatico.ca>
> To: <esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 9:10 PM
> Subject: [esp-r] 1) Bi-directional Doors in Horiontal surfaces
> 2)Dummy-nodescheme
> 
> 
> > Two questions:
> >
> > 1) I have heard of a trick using bi-directional door components in
> horiontal
> > surfaces.  In fact this is mentioned in the FAQ regarding atriums.
> However
> > the input data for using a bi-directional door assumes it is in a
> vertical
> > surface because it asks for the height difference between the base of
> the
> > door and the center of both zones which it seperates.  I looked up
> Hensen's
> > thesis and the door component seems to have these assumptions built in.
> So,
> > how can I implement a bi-directional door component between vertically
> > stacked zones in my atrium?
> >
> > 2) I am using the dummy node scheme for my window controls as follows:
> >
> > I am implementing a control strategy for opening and closing window with
> two
> > separate controls in series.  The controls are:
> >
> > 1. When the indoor temperature exceeds a set temperature, say 20 C the
> > windows will open.
> > 2. When the ambient temperature exceeds the indoor temperature, the
> dummy
> > windows
> > will close to prevent convective heating.
> >
> > When I run the simulation, the dummy nodes stays at a constant 20?C (the
> > temperature which I set the node to for the start of the run).
> > Interestingly, although the dummy nodes stayed at a constant 20 C,
> interior
> > temperatures did drop below 20 C as a result of (what looks like)
> > ventilation.
> >
> > Now, it seems to me that the dummy node should be a calculated node and
> not
> > following some other node temperature.  Say for example that the dummy
> > follows the ambient, then, when the dummy window is open but the window
> > between the dummy to outside is closed, the zone will still interact
> with
> > outside.  Now say that the dummy follows the interior node/zone
> temperature.
> > In this case when both windows are open, all incoming ventilation air
> will
> > be no help since it will be at the interior node/one temperature already.
> >
> > How can I ensure that the dummy node is a calculated temperature and
> that
> > the dummy node scheme will work properly?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Andrew Zwart
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk
> > [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk]On Behalf Of Jon Hand
> > Sent: Saturday, 09 September, 2006 11:58
> > To: kostas ordoumpozanis
> > Cc: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk
> > Subject: [esp-r] Re: tutorial help
> >
> >
> >
> > The best current tutorial for ESP-r is the ESP-r cookbook
> > which is available on the ESRU web page publications or
> > as part of the ESP-r source distribution.
> >
> > The browsing function is somewhat old and is probably
> > trying to invoke netscape.  There are quite a few useful
> > resources on the ESRU web page which can be invoked
> > manually via your favorite browser.
> >
> > -ESRU
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk on behalf of kostas ordoumpozanis
> > Sent: Sat 9/9/2006 12:10 PM
> > To: esp-r at strath.ac.uk
> > Subject: [esp-r]  tutorial help
> >
> > Hi. I am trying to launch the tutorial button on project manager and
> after
> > it shows the message "Starting  Browsing..." it does nothing.  Any
> answer to
> > that.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Ordoumpozanis Kostas
> > Greece
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > esp-r mailing list
> > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk
> > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r
> >
> 
> 
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> 
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> > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk
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> 
> 
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