<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> <head> <meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 12 (filtered medium)"> <style>  </style>  </head> <body lang=DE-CH link=blue vlink=purple> <div class=Section1> Hi Francesco<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> one aspect that I remembered after the post is that I think the CFCs are restricted to vertical surfaces, for now. As you have a roof window, it may after all not be a solution.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> However, as one can enter three resistances for a “normal” TMC and “the other two” are called heat flux upwards and downwards, it should be a good approximation. However, I have never checked the code if the resistance value chosen is actually a function of the heat flux direction (and would then change for a roof light during run time, usually) or is linked to the “position” of the surface (i.e. “ceil” or “floor”).<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Regards<o:p></o:p> Achim<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> <o:p> </o:p> <div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'> From: esp-r-bounces@lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces@lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Francesco Frontini Sent: Freitag, 5. Februar 2010 10:28 To: esp-r@lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Re: Window u-value temperature dependency in ESPr<o:p></o:p> </div> <o:p> </o:p> Thank you Achim, I downloaded it and looks fine. I already work with this CFC model but I forgot that Bartosz implemented also the temperature dependency of the glazing cavity! Regards Francesco <o:p></o:p> <div> 2010/2/2 <<a href="mailto:esp-r-request@lists.strath.ac.uk">esp-r-request@lists.strath.ac.uk</a>><o:p></o:p> Send esp-r mailing list submissions to        <a href="mailto:esp-r@lists.strath.ac.uk">esp-r@lists.strath.ac.uk</a> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit        <a href="http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r" target="_blank">http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r</a> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to        <a href="mailto:esp-r-request@lists.strath.ac.uk">esp-r-request@lists.strath.ac.uk</a> You can reach the person managing the list at        <a href="mailto:esp-r-owner@lists.strath.ac.uk">esp-r-owner@lists.strath.ac.uk</a> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of esp-r digest..." Today's Topics:   1.  Window u-value temperature dependency in ESPr      (Francesco Frontini)   2. Re: Window u-value temperature dependency in ESPr (Achim Geissler)   3.  World turned upside down.... (Bob Irving) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 14:51:58 +0100 From: Francesco Frontini <<a href="mailto:francesco.frontini@polimi.it">francesco.frontini@polimi.it</a>> Subject: [esp-r]  Window u-value temperature dependency in ESPr To: <a href="mailto:esp-r@lists.strath.ac.uk">esp-r@lists.strath.ac.uk</a> Message-ID:        <<a href="mailto:d2985fe1002020551w688bb21cg3c6fab7215eda721@mail.gmail.com">d2985fe1002020551w688bb21cg3c6fab7215eda721@mail.gmail.com</a>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Dear ESP-r users, I have a question regarding how ESP-r calculates the properties of a glass unit (for example a double glaze unit with argon gap). I red several discussions about the capability of ESP-r of reading and importing WIS or Window data file, but for me is not clear which kind of data espr effectively read. My knowledge is that, when we specify a glass construction we have to give the resistances of the air gap between the glass panes (that is a fix value) in the construction library and then define the optical properties in the optic database (ESPr ask for the angle dependence absorptances of the different panes and the angle dependence transmittance of the different panes). That?s all! Am I wrong? Now comes the question? How does ESPr calculates the temperature dependency of the air (or gas) gap resistance between the panes? It is not possible to define the emissivity of both glass pane surfaces? I know that TRNSYS uses the Window 4 model (but, if I correctly remember, TRNSYS is not able to consider not standard emissivities for the outer surfaces). I have this question because I am modelling a family house room under a tilted roof. The window is a roof window (like Velux). I think that, for such cases, it is relevant to model correctly the temperature dependency (also the wind dependency) of the gas-gap resistance. Any help is appreciated. Francesco -- Dr. Francesco Frontini, MEng PhD in Buildings Engineering ---------------------------------------- Fraunhofer Institut f?r Solare Energiesysteme ISE Heidenhofstr. 2, 79110 Freiburg, Germany M1:    [+39] 333-3097826 M2:    [+49] (0)1522-1624691 Phone: [+49] (0)7614588-5358 FAX:   [+49] (0)7614588-9358 @1: <a href="mailto:francesco.frontini@ise.fraunhofer.de">francesco.frontini@ise.fraunhofer.de</a> @2: <a href="mailto:francesco.frontini@polimi.it">francesco.frontini@polimi.it</a> ---------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you receive this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <a href="http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20100202/2f046247/attachment-0001.html" target="_blank">http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20100202/2f046247/attachment-0001.html</a> ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 15:35:58 +0100 From: "Achim Geissler" <<a href="mailto:achim.geissler@intergga.ch">achim.geissler@intergga.ch</a>> Subject: [esp-r] Re: Window u-value temperature dependency in ESPr To: "'Francesco Frontini'" <<a href="mailto:francesco.frontini@polimi.it">francesco.frontini@polimi.it</a>>,        <<a href="mailto:esp-r@lists.strath.ac.uk">esp-r@lists.strath.ac.uk</a>> Message-ID: <001001caa415$09e37310$1daa5930$@<a href="mailto:geissler@intergga.ch">geissler@intergga.ch</a>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Dear Francesco you have it right for the ?traditional? MLC. With this construction type, the gap resistance is not temperature-dependant. However, as of release 11.7 (I think it was), there is a new type called ?CFC? (Complex Fenestration Constructions?). This type uses the actual emissivity of the surfaces and calculates temperature-dependant properties for the IGU gap (and has some other quite handy frills). The underlying model / theory etc. is well described in Bartosz Lomanowski?s thesis, available at ESRU. Regards Achim From: <a href="mailto:esp-r-bounces@lists.strath.ac.uk">esp-r-bounces@lists.strath.ac.uk</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:esp-r-bounces@lists.strath.ac.uk">esp-r-bounces@lists.strath.ac.uk</a>] On Behalf Of Francesco Frontini Sent: Dienstag, 2. Februar 2010 14:52 To: <a href="mailto:esp-r@lists.strath.ac.uk">esp-r@lists.strath.ac.uk</a> Subject: [esp-r] Window u-value temperature dependency in ESPr Dear ESP-r users, I have a question regarding how ESP-r calculates the properties of a glass unit (for example a double glaze unit with argon gap). I red several discussions about the capability of ESP-r of reading and importing WIS or Window data file, but for me is not clear which kind of data espr effectively read. My knowledge is that, when we specify a glass construction we have to give the resistances of the air gap between the glass panes (that is a fix value) in the construction library and then define the optical properties in the optic database (ESPr ask for the angle dependence absorptances of the different panes and the angle dependence transmittance of the different panes). That?s all! Am I wrong? Now comes the question? How does ESPr calculates the temperature dependency of the air (or gas) gap resistance between the panes? It is not possible to define the emissivity of both glass pane surfaces? I know that TRNSYS uses the Window 4 model (but, if I correctly remember, TRNSYS is not able to consider not standard emissivities for the outer surfaces). I have this question because I am modelling a family house room under a tilted roof. The window is a roof window (like Velux). I think that, for such cases, it is relevant to model correctly the temperature dependency (also the wind dependency) of the gas-gap resistance. Any help is appreciated. Francesco -- Dr. Francesco Frontini, MEng PhD in Buildings Engineering ---------------------------------------- Fraunhofer Institut f?r Solare Energiesysteme ISE Heidenhofstr. 2, 79110 Freiburg, Germany M1:    [+39] 333-3097826 M2:    [+49] (0)1522-1624691 Phone: [+49] (0)7614588-5358 FAX:   [+49] (0)7614588-9358 @1: <a href="mailto:francesco.frontini@ise.fraunhofer.de">francesco.frontini@ise.fraunhofer.de</a> @2: <a href="mailto:francesco.frontini@polimi.it">francesco.frontini@polimi.it</a> ---------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you receive this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <a href="http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20100202/1b029b50/attachment-0001.html" target="_blank">http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20100202/1b029b50/attachment-0001.html</a> ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 16:11:27 +0000 From: Bob Irving <<a href="mailto:bob.irving@brookes.ac.uk">bob.irving@brookes.ac.uk</a>> Subject: [esp-r]  World turned upside down.... To: <a href="mailto:esp-r@lists.strath.ac.uk">esp-r@lists.strath.ac.uk</a> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:2B29137A-B225-4C32-99B9-5CD5A5E399C2@brookes.ac.uk">2B29137A-B225-4C32-99B9-5CD5A5E399C2@brookes.ac.uk</a>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Attached is a screen shot of the first zone I have created in a model. After entering the vertices of the zone, I changed the names and added constructions for two walls and then did the same for the Base, with the addition of linking it to the ground. Returning to the wireframe, I now observe that the Base, renamed to Bdrm1_floor, is at the top of the drawing and Top-8 is at the bottom. I've not rotated the drawing at all (honest!) Please advise! Bob Irving PhD researcher Oxford Inst of Sustainable Development Oxford Brookes University 01865 484201 01285 650281 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Screen shot 2010-02-02 at 16.09.04.png Type: image/png Size: 26618 bytes Desc: not available Url : <a href="http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20100202/6ce95c74/attachment.png" target="_blank">http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20100202/6ce95c74/attachment.png</a> -------------- next part -------------- ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list <a href="mailto:esp-r@lists.strath.ac.uk">esp-r@lists.strath.ac.uk</a> <a href="http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r" target="_blank">http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r</a> End of esp-r Digest, Vol 43, Issue 2 ************************************<o:p></o:p> </div> -- Dr. Francesco Frontini, MEng PhD in Buildings Engineering ---------------------------------------- Fraunhofer Institut f�r Solare Energiesysteme ISE Heidenhofstr. 2, 79110 Freiburg, Germany M1:    [+39] 333-3097826 M2:    [+49] (0)1522-1624691 Phone: [+49] (0)7614588-5358 FAX:   [+49] (0)7614588-9358 @1: <a href="mailto:francesco.frontini@ise.fraunhofer.de">francesco.frontini@ise.fraunhofer.de</a> @2: <a href="mailto:francesco.frontini@polimi.it">francesco.frontini@polimi.it</a> ---------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you receive this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. <o:p></o:p> </div> </body> </html>