<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:st1="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40" xmlns:ns0="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"> <head> <meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 11 (filtered medium)"> <o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="City" downloadurl="http://www.5iamas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"/> <o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="PlaceName" downloadurl="http://www.5iantlavalamp.com/"/> <o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="PlaceType" downloadurl="http://www.5iantlavalamp.com/"/> <o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="place" downloadurl="http://www.5iantlavalamp.com/"/> <o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="Street"/> <o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="address"/> <o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="PersonName"/>  <style>  </style> </head> <body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple> <div class=Section1> Dear Monika – as I mentioned in my e-mail the mode should be -1, I notice that it is +1 in your file. So try changing the following<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> 9. # No. of data items<o:p></o:p> 1.00000 100.00000 0.00000 22.00000 6.00000 1.00000 1080.00000 1.00000 70.00000<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> To<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> 9. # No. of data items<o:p></o:p> -1.00000 100.00000 0.00000 22.00000 6.00000 1.00000 1080.00000 1.00000 70.00000<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Also I see you are trying to model a PID controller – this is difficult – make sure you use a very short time step (I’ve used 1800 plant time steps/hour). I’ve also found that PID mode 2 works reasonably well. So you could also try: <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> 9. # No. of data items<o:p></o:p> -2.00000 100.00000 0.00000 22.00000 6.00000 1.00000 1080.00000 1.00000 70.00000<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Let me know how you get on. <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Nick<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> <div> *******************************<o:p></o:p> Dr Nick Kelly<o:p></o:p> RCUK Academic Fellow<o:p></o:p> Energy Systems Research Unit<o:p></o:p> Institute for Energy and Environment<o:p></o:p> <ns0:place w:insAuthor="las03140" w:insDate="2006-10-17T10:49:00Z" w:endInsAuthor="las03140" w:endInsDate="2006-10-17T10:49:00Z"><ns0:PlaceType w:insAuthor="las03140" w:insDate="2006-10-17T10:49:00Z" w:endInsAuthor="las03140" w:endInsDate="2006-10-17T10:49:00Z"><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:PlaceType w:st="on">University</st1:PlaceType></ns0:PlaceType></st1:place> of <ns0:PlaceName w:insAuthor="las03140" w:insDate="2006-10-17T10:49:00Z" w:endInsAuthor="las03140" w:endInsDate="2006-10-17T10:49:00Z"><st1:PlaceName w:st="on">Strathclyde</st1:PlaceName></ns0:PlaceName></ns0:place><o:p></o:p> <ns0:Street w:insAuthor="las03140" w:insDate="2006-10-17T10:49:00Z" w:endInsAuthor="las03140" w:endInsDate="2006-10-17T10:49:00Z"><ns0:address w:insAuthor="las03140" w:insDate="2006-10-17T10:49:00Z" w:endInsAuthor="las03140" w:endInsDate="2006-10-17T10:49:00Z">75 Montrose St</ns0:address></ns0:Street><o:p></o:p> <ns0:place w:insAuthor="las03140" w:insDate="2006-10-17T10:49:00Z" w:endInsAuthor="las03140" w:endInsDate="2006-10-17T10:49:00Z"><ns0:City w:insAuthor="las03140" w:insDate="2006-10-17T10:49:00Z" w:endInsAuthor="las03140" w:endInsDate="2006-10-17T10:49:00Z">Glasgow</ns0:City></ns0:place> G1 1XJ<o:p></o:p> t: +44(0)141 548 2854<o:p></o:p> f: +44(0)141 552 5105<o:p></o:p> e: <a href="mailto:nick@esru.strath.ac.uk">nick@esru.strath.ac.uk</a><o:p></o:p> *******************************<o:p></o:p> </div> <div> <div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'> <hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1> </div> From: Monika Hall [mailto:Monika.Hall@josef-gartner.ch] Sent: 17 October 2006 10:43 To: Nicolas Kelly; Ferguson, Alex; esp-r@lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: RE: [esp-r] Re: plant: air cooling coil<o:p></o:p> </div> <o:p> </o:p> <div> Dear Nick and all other,<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> thank you for you reply. Sorry, that I could not answer until now.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> With your mail I’m back to zero. With a positive cooling flux the program does not start to simulate (error CMP04C).<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> My settings are as follows and they do not work with a cooling coil but they work with a heating coil:<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> * Plant<o:p></o:p> Cooling coil<o:p></o:p> 1 # No. of loops<o:p></o:p> * Control loops<o:p></o:p> # senses dry bulb temperature in room.<o:p></o:p> 1 0 0 0 # sensor <o:p></o:p> # plant component 2:cooler @ node no. 1<o:p></o:p> -1 2 1 0 # actuator <o:p></o:p> 0 # No. day types<o:p></o:p> 1 365 # valid Sat-01-Jan - Sun-31-Dec<o:p></o:p> 3 # No. of periods in day<o:p></o:p> 0 1 0.000 # ctl type, law (PID flux control.), start @<o:p></o:p> 9. # No. of data items<o:p></o:p> 1.00000 100.00000 0.00000 22.00000 6.00000 1.00000 1080.00000 1.00000 70.00000<o:p></o:p> … and so on<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Definition of plat component<o:p></o:p> #->  2, air cooling coil; 1 node model ; flux control                              cooler            4     1        # Component has   1 control variable(s).   10000.     3   15.000       1000.0       3.5000    <o:p></o:p>  <o:p></o:p>  <o:p></o:p> What should I do?<o:p></o:p>  <o:p></o:p> Best regards<o:p></o:p> Monika<o:p></o:p> </div> <o:p> </o:p> <div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'> <hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabIndex=-1> </div> From: Nicolas Kelly [mailto:nick@esru.strath.ac.uk] Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2006 2:52 PM To: Monika Hall; Ferguson, Alex; esp-r@lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: RE: [esp-r] Re: plant: air cooling coil<o:p></o:p> Dear Monica, <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> For the P,PI or PID controller in set the ‘mode’ to a negative value (usually -1). The cooling flux should be specified as a positive value as it is negated in the cooling controller. To set an acceptable temperature range for the cooling coil adjust the ‘throttling range’ control parameters. The coil will operate proportionally between setpoint +/- 0.5*throttling range. So to control between 20 and 40 the set point is 30 and the throttling range is 20. <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Note that with HVAC modelling you will have some excursions from the desired values – you are modelling non-ideal processes and non-ideal controllers. Further, proportional control always has an ‘offset’ error, the size of which usually depends upon the size of the throttling range and the capacity of the component being controlled.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Regards, <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Nick Kelly on behalf of ESRU<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> <o:p> </o:p> <div> *******************************<o:p></o:p> Dr Nick Kelly<o:p></o:p> RCUK Academic Fellow<o:p></o:p> Energy Systems Research Unit<o:p></o:p> Institute for Energy and Environment<o:p></o:p> University of Strathclyde<o:p></o:p> 75 Montrose St<o:p></o:p> Glasgow G1 1XJ<o:p></o:p> t: +44(0)141 548 2854<o:p></o:p> f: +44(0)141 552 5105<o:p></o:p> e: <a href="mailto:nick@esru.strath.ac.uk">nick@esru.strath.ac.uk</a><o:p></o:p> *******************************<o:p></o:p> </div> <div> <div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'> <hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabIndex=-1> </div> From: esp-r-bounces@lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces@lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Monika Hall Sent: 12 October 2006 12:13 To: Ferguson, Alex; esp-r@lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Re: plant: air cooling coil<o:p></o:p> </div> <o:p> </o:p> Hi Alex and all other,<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> the first view was ok with a negative flux, I changed it in the ctl file. But when I changed it per menu, I got the error message, that the value have to be > 0. <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Additionally there must be something wrong, because I can not reach the setpoint temperature. I would like to cool a room with a cooling coil, if the room air temperature is higher then 26°C. The only way to handle the air temperature is due to variation of the cooling flux, but this is dissatisfying.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> On the other side, the case with heating works fine. The heating coil heats, when the room air temperature is below the setpoint of 20°C.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Does anybody know if there is a possibility to set a temperature range for the heating/cooling coil? P.e. the temperature of the heating coil should be between 20 – 40°C and for the cooling coil between 16 – 24°C.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Best regards<o:p></o:p> Monika<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> <div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'> <hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabIndex=-1> </div> From: Ferguson, Alex [mailto:AFerguso@NRCan.gc.ca] Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 4:38 PM To: Monika Hall; esp-r@lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: RE: [esp-r] plant: air cooling coil<o:p></o:p> Hi Monika,<o:p></o:p>  <o:p></o:p> The cooling coil model (CMP04) expects the control signal to be negative (i.e. -2000 for a 2000 W cooling duty.)<o:p></o:p>  <o:p></o:p> - Alex <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> <div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'> <hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabIndex=-1> </div> From: esp-r-bounces@lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces@lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Monika Hall Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 10:32 To: esp-r@lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] plant: air cooling coil<o:p></o:p> <div> Dear all,<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> have anybody worked with the plant component „ air cooling coil, ref. no 4”? My model works fine with the plant component  „ air heating coil, ref. no 5”, but when I change the heating coil into a cooling coil the model does not work anymore. <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> I use the same controller for heating/cooling coil:<o:p></o:p> controller type a) senses dry bulb  -> actuates flux<o:p></o:p> Control law b) P,PI,PID for type 0,2,4...<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> I use the same settings for heating/cooling, I only change the setpoints.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> The error code is:<o:p></o:p> CMP04C: invalid control data for component 2: 2000<o:p></o:p> with 2: Cooling coil and 2000: max htg/clg cap [W]<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Which setting is the right one for a cooling coil? Could somebody help me?<o:p></o:p>  <o:p></o:p> Best regards<o:p></o:p> Monika<o:p></o:p> </div> </div> </body> </html>