From lng24 at cam.ac.uk Sat Jan 5 16:02:27 2013 From: lng24 at cam.ac.uk (L.N. Gichuyia) Date: 05 Jan 2013 16:02:27 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] UNCERTAINTY ANALYSIS Message-ID: Hi ESP-r community, I need to perform some uncertainty and sensitivity analysis. The "define uncertainties" option is password protected because it is under development. Where can I get the password? Thank you for any information. Kind Regards, Linda Nkatha Gichuyia ----------------------- PhD Candidate Department of Architecture University of Cambridge 1-5 Scroope Terrace Cambridge CB2 1PX United Kingdom From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Sun Jan 6 14:16:37 2013 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2013 14:16:37 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: UNCERTAINTY ANALYSIS In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA41301C6AE9FA5AF@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> The usual password for such features is 101. You might also want to have some conversations with Iain Macdonald at the National Research Council in Canada who wrote the underlying method. Regards, Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of L.N. Gichuyia [lng24 at cam.ac.uk] Sent: 05 January 2013 16:02 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] UNCERTAINTY ANALYSIS Hi ESP-r community, I need to perform some uncertainty and sensitivity analysis. The "define uncertainties" option is password protected because it is under development. Where can I get the password? Thank you for any information. Kind Regards, Linda Nkatha Gichuyia ----------------------- PhD Candidate Department of Architecture University of Cambridge 1-5 Scroope Terrace Cambridge CB2 1PX United Kingdom _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From helia.taheri at ut.ac.ir Mon Jan 7 05:48:07 2013 From: helia.taheri at ut.ac.ir (helia.taheri at ut.ac.ir) Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2013 09:18:07 +0330 (IRST) Subject: [esp-r] ASHRAE 140 Message-ID: <44683.5.34.217.20.1357537687.squirrel@utservm.ut.ac.ir> Hi, I want the ASHRAE 140 Models in ESP-r. How can I get them? Best Regards, Helia Taheri From achim.geissler at fhnw.ch Mon Jan 7 09:11:00 2013 From: achim.geissler at fhnw.ch (Geissler Achim) Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2013 10:11:00 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: ASHRAE 140 In-Reply-To: <44683.5.34.217.20.1357537687.squirrel@utservm.ut.ac.ir> References: <44683.5.34.217.20.1357537687.squirrel@utservm.ut.ac.ir> Message-ID: <0F4309A75967A944A1E3C19469796698EA5923B0B3@MXAMU12.adm.ds.fhnw.ch> Dear Helia if you download the full source tree, the ASHRAE 140 models (at least some of them, it would seem) can be found in "tester/additional_tests". Best Achim > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r- > bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] Im Auftrag von helia.taheri at ut.ac.ir > Gesendet: Montag, 7. Januar 2013 06:48 > An: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Betreff: [esp-r] ASHRAE 140 > > Hi, > > I want the ASHRAE 140 Models in ESP-r. How can I get them? > > Best Regards, > Helia Taheri > > > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From Georgios.KOKOGIANNAKIS at nottingham.edu.cn Tue Jan 8 03:50:33 2013 From: Georgios.KOKOGIANNAKIS at nottingham.edu.cn (Georgios KOKOGIANNAKIS) Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2013 11:50:33 +0800 Subject: [esp-r] Re: ASHRAE 140 In-Reply-To: <0F4309A75967A944A1E3C19469796698EA5923B0B3@MXAMU12.adm.ds.fhnw.ch> References: <44683.5.34.217.20.1357537687.squirrel@utservm.ut.ac.ir>, <0F4309A75967A944A1E3C19469796698EA5923B0B3@MXAMU12.adm.ds.fhnw.ch> Message-ID: <3DF95F8960733145B77ECBF9575F5F671A3B000B8A@MBX.nottingham.edu.cn> Helia, All of the envelope tests are accessible via the interface in ESP-r and individually from the validation/BSETEST folder. The interface runs the tests automatically and compares the results with the published ranges of the tests. To run them via the interface click validation testing->Standards (I do notice however some glitches that were not there when this facility was initially developed). I also notice that the tests are here (it includes some of the HVAC tests): /tester/additional_tests/ASHRAE-140/ However, the envelope tests between these two folders may have differences. The configuration of such tests is often tricky and may affect the results. Best regards, Georgios ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Geissler Achim [achim.geissler at fhnw.ch] Sent: Monday, January 07, 2013 5:11 PM To: helia.taheri at ut.ac.ir; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Re: ASHRAE 140 Dear Helia if you download the full source tree, the ASHRAE 140 models (at least some of them, it would seem) can be found in "tester/additional_tests". Best Achim > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r- > bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] Im Auftrag von helia.taheri at ut.ac.ir > Gesendet: Montag, 7. Januar 2013 06:48 > An: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Betreff: [esp-r] ASHRAE 140 > > Hi, > > I want the ASHRAE 140 Models in ESP-r. How can I get them? > > Best Regards, > Helia Taheri > > > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it. Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment. Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of The University of Nottingham Ningbo, China. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with The University of Nottingham Ningbo, China may be monitored as permitted by UK and Chinese legislation. From hanguiyuan at gmail.com Tue Jan 8 15:17:37 2013 From: hanguiyuan at gmail.com (Guiyuan Han) Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2013 10:17:37 -0500 Subject: [esp-r] Building Design Survey (PSU&DBS) Message-ID: Dear colleagues: We are processing a three-year study to create an optimization framework for minimal building life cycle cost cooperating with DOW Building Solution. We would like to invite you to participate in a survey to understand the importance of life cycle optimization from a designer's point of view. This survey is a significant input of the research. Your response would be appreciated. In total, it should take 5 minutes to complete the questionnaire. The information participants provide will be maintained strictly confidential. To fill out this survey, please click the link: https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/BuildingDesignSurvey Thank you very much. Guiyuan Han, PhD Candidate Building Science Group The Pennsylvania State University -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130108/da954b4e/attachment.html From jglazer at gard.com Wed Jan 9 21:05:33 2013 From: jglazer at gard.com (Jason Glazer) Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2013 15:05:33 -0600 Subject: [esp-r] Help Review Energy Efficiency Measure List for ASHRAE 1651-RP Message-ID: <50EDDB9D.6080503@gard.com> For ASHRAE research project 1651-RP, we are trying to assemble a comprehensive list of energy efficiency measures that can be considered for new buildings covered by 90.1 except for renewables. The project is titled: "Development of Maximum Technically Achievable Energy Targets for Commercial Buildings (Ultra Low Energy Use Building Set)". Later we will be looking for the combination of measures that will result in the lowest possible energy consumption for each building type using EnergyPlus. Attached is a spreadsheet that describes the 320 energy efficiency measures gathered to date along with a report describing how the spreadsheet was assembled. The report also recommends enhancements to EnergyPlus. After we finish compiling the list, we will be choosing a subset of measures to simulate. Your help is requested to add measures that are missing from the "EEMs" tab of the spreadsheet. Column A, the name of the measure, and Column D, the description, are the most important. When you add measures, if possible, please also add a web or literature source that describes the measure on the "References" tab. Your input on any other portion of the spreadsheet is also welcome. To learn more about how the list was assembled and the meaning of each column, a conference call is scheduled for Wednesday January 23 at 11am central. If you are interested in attending, please let me know and I will send you the connection information. Please feel free forward this email and attachment to others who might be interested but please CC me when you do so I can keep track of who has received it. If you have suggestions, it would be most helpful if you replied only to me with a revised version of the spreadsheet attached containing additional rows at the bottom of each tab with your input. Please provide input no later than February 20, 2013. Thank you for your help. Jason -- Jason Glazer, P.E., GARD Analytics, 90.1 ECB chair Admin for onebuilding.org building performance mailing lists -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 1651-1c-EEM-List.xlsx Type: application/vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument.spreadsheetml.sheet Size: 103530 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130109/0b2c5e42/attachment-0002.bin -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 1651-Subtask1c-MeasureList-06.pdf Type: application/octetstream Size: 121464 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130109/0b2c5e42/attachment-0003.bin From helia.taheri at ut.ac.ir Tue Jan 15 06:15:42 2013 From: helia.taheri at ut.ac.ir (helia.taheri at ut.ac.ir) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 09:45:42 +0330 (IRST) Subject: [esp-r] Error in ESP-r Message-ID: <28476.5.34.217.237.1358230542.squirrel@utservm.ut.ac.ir> Hi, I want to simulate the standard cases in validation testing(ASHRAE). When I want to simulate it the error is occurred ( The program can't start because cygwin1.dll is missing from your computer. try reinstalling the program to fix this problem.) I reinstall the program again, but the error occurred again. I use ESP-r for Windows. Thanks. Best Regards, Helia Taheri From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Tue Jan 15 11:03:34 2013 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 11:03:34 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Error in ESP-r In-Reply-To: <28476.5.34.217.237.1358230542.squirrel@utservm.ut.ac.ir> References: <28476.5.34.217.237.1358230542.squirrel@utservm.ut.ac.ir> Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA41301C6B0445210@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> Please clarify because there is a 'Cygwin version of ESP-r' which runs on Windows machines but within a Linux emulation environment named Cygwin. There is a different version of ESP-r which runs on Windows machines which is termed the 'native windows version'. Below is a link to a recent native windows version of ESP-r. It is not dependent on having a Cygwin emulation environment. ALSO please ensure that your computer has a localle which uses a '.' as a decimal place rather than a comma. Commas in ESP-r descriptive files are used to separate data. ALSO your PATH environment variable might need to be updated so that it includes the folder where the ESP-r executables and associated .dll files are located (C:/Esru/esp-r/bin). Would someone in the ESP-r community confirm that the ASHRAE tests can be run within a Windows environment? It might assume a Linux computer. Regards Jon Hand https://dl.dropbox.com/u/17785121/ESPr_Installers/ESP-r_setup_native_windows_gtk_txt_v12_1_w7_8884.exe ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of helia.taheri at ut.ac.ir [helia.taheri at ut.ac.ir] Sent: 15 January 2013 06:15 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Error in ESP-r Hi, I want to simulate the standard cases in validation testing(ASHRAE). When I want to simulate it the error is occurred ( The program can't start because cygwin1.dll is missing from your computer. try reinstalling the program to fix this problem.) I reinstall the program again, but the error occurred again. I use ESP-r for Windows. Thanks. Best Regards, Helia Taheri _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From achim.geissler at fhnw.ch Fri Jan 18 12:25:50 2013 From: achim.geissler at fhnw.ch (Geissler Achim) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 12:25:50 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] CISBAT Conference - Call for Papers - deadline January 31 Message-ID: Dear ESP-r group sorry for any cross-postings, however, I would like to point you to the upcoming CISBAT Conference in case you haven't been aware of it. The conference will take place in Lausanne, Switzerland shortly after the IBPSA Conference. Lausanne, Switzerland is not so far away from the IBPSA Conference location. Combining the two may be a possibility for those who come from afar. There will be a simulation-focused IBPSA-CH session during the conference, with special focus planned on practical simulation problems and their solutions. Best Achim [Beschreibung: bandeau_06.jpg] CALL FOR PAPERS - Submission deadline 31 January 2013 CISBAT 2013 International Scientific Conference CLEANTECH FOR SMART CITIES AND BUILDINGS >From Nano to Urban Scale 4-6 September 2013, EPFL, Lausanne, Switzerland www.cisbat.org Sustainability in the built environment is one of key issues for research and political action today. The biannual CISBAT Conference offers a platform for the presentation of the latest scientific research in the field, across a wide range of disciplines. We are delighted to announce the 12th CISBAT Conference to take place at EPFL in Lausanne, Switzerland from 4th to 6th September 2013 and to issue a call for scientific papers in the following domains: 1. Nanostructured materials for renewable energies (solar nanotechnologies) 2. Sustainable building envelopes (ecobuildings) 3. Solar active and passive cooling (natural ventilation) 4. Daylighting and electric lighting (green lighting) 5. Indoor environment quality (occupants comfort, health and behaviour) 6. Advanced building control systems (biomimetic strategies) 7. Urban ecology and metabolism (material and energy flows) 8. Integration of renewable energy in the built environment (electricity, heating and cooling) 9. Building and urban simulation (smart cities and buildings) - IBPSA CH Session 10. Information technologies and software (computer simulation) The Conference will feature high-level keynotes as well as technical oral and poster sessions and opportunities to show software developments. Extended abstracts should be submitted by 31 January 2013 through the online submission form. Format: one page A4, minimum 320 words (plus optionally one page with figures and/or references), with title, full details of corresponding author + relevant domain among those above. For details -- scope of the conference, venue, registration, scientific committee and soon also keynote speakers --, please refer to www.cisbat.org Conference host: Swiss Federal Institute of Technology in Lausanne (EPFL), Switzerland Scientific Partners: Cambridge University, Massachusetts Institute of Technology, IBPSA Switzerland --------------------------------------------------------------------- Fachhochschule Nordwestschweiz Hochschule f?r Architektur, Bau und Geomatik Institut Energie am Bau Prof. Dr.-Ing. Achim Geissler Leiter Gruppe Bau St. Jakobs-Strasse 84 CH-4132 Muttenz --------------------------------------------------------------------- T +41 61 467 44 51 F +41 61 467 45 43 achim.geissler at fhnw.ch www.fhnw.ch/iebau --------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130118/b3729b9b/attachment-0001.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 95009 bytes Desc: image001.jpg Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130118/b3729b9b/attachment-0001.jpg From helia.taheri at ut.ac.ir Sun Jan 20 11:46:11 2013 From: helia.taheri at ut.ac.ir (helia.taheri at ut.ac.ir) Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 15:16:11 +0330 (IRST) Subject: [esp-r] Two Windows Message-ID: <22647.5.34.217.209.1358682371.squirrel@utservm.ut.ac.ir> Hi I want to draw the geometry in ESP-r. I have 3 zones, (as the file attached shown) (Main Zone, Small zone1, small zone 2 (that is the inner zone). I want to have a transparent surface in the intersection of the main zone and small zone 1. I want to know that is it possible that I put two windows with overlap each other? I hope to say my question true . Thanks Helia Taheri -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 1-20-2013 3-10-47 PM.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 161788 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130120/95c0496a/attachment-0001.jpg From sr880710 at dal.ca Mon Jan 21 18:13:47 2013 From: sr880710 at dal.ca (Sara Nikoofard) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2013 14:13:47 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Two Windows In-Reply-To: <22647.5.34.217.209.1358682371.squirrel@utservm.ut.ac.ir> References: <22647.5.34.217.209.1358682371.squirrel@utservm.ut.ac.ir> Message-ID: <003601cdf803$0f5aed60$2e10c820$@dal.ca> Hi Helia, I think you need to explain more about your problem. Please specify your zones on the figure you attached. What I could understand was you made two zones on one surface of the main zone. Is that true? And why is that? And why don?t you just make a window on the wall of main zone? Why it should be between two zones? And where do you want to make the overlap? Your question is so ambiguous please explain more so we can help you. Cheers, Sara Nikoofard -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of helia.taheri at ut.ac.ir Sent: January-20-13 7:46 AM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Two Windows Hi I want to draw the geometry in ESP-r. I have 3 zones, (as the file attached shown) (Main Zone, Small zone1, small zone 2 (that is the inner zone). I want to have a transparent surface in the intersection of the main zone and small zone 1. I want to know that is it possible that I put two windows with overlap each other? I hope to say my question true . Thanks Helia Taheri From dimitrios.sfakianakis at strath.ac.uk Fri Jan 25 16:40:55 2013 From: dimitrios.sfakianakis at strath.ac.uk (Dimitrios Sfakianakis) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 16:40:55 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Air supply and extraction from zones connected with a crack Message-ID: <44D295EFFE81BF4492C25E87AC1D499701C247CB7154@E2K7-MS3.ds.strath.ac.uk> Dear list, I am modelling a room with an en-suite bathroom where I have air supplied to the room and air extracted from the bathroom. The two zones are connected with a crack (under the door) in the flow network defined. Today I tried representing the HVAC system with the actual plant components however I couldn't define air supply to one zone and air extraction from the other since when I define air extraction from the bathroom, Esp-r asks for the supply component. Has anyone ever faced any similar situation with air supply and extraction from adjacent zones that are connected with a crack? What strategy should I use? Thanks Dimitris -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130125/6b627bd5/attachment.html From C.Hoffmann at gae.ch Sun Jan 27 15:38:07 2013 From: C.Hoffmann at gae.ch (Hoffmann Caroline) Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 15:38:07 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Air supply and extraction from zones connected with a crack Message-ID: <26CE7FD348C2F7419094326E776EF6343AB189@bsexg3.gph.ch> Dear Dimitrios Excuse me, if I didn't understand your problem well, but couldn't you use "constant vol. flow rate component" (type 30)? Sincerely yours, Caroline __________________________________________________ Caroline Hoffmann Dr.-Ing. (Architektur) Gartenmann Engineering AG St. Jakobs-Strasse 54 4052 Basel Tel. dir.: +61 377 93 08 Fax: +61 377 93 01 Email: c.hoffmann at gae.ch Web: www.gae.ch -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] Im Auftrag von esp-r-request at lists.strath.ac.uk Gesendet: Freitag, 25. Januar 2013 18:30 An: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Betreff: esp-r Digest, Vol 78, Issue 9 Send esp-r mailing list submissions to esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to esp-r-request at lists.strath.ac.uk You can reach the person managing the list at esp-r-owner at lists.strath.ac.uk When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of esp-r digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Air supply and extraction from zones connected with a crack (Dimitrios Sfakianakis) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 16:40:55 +0000 From: Dimitrios Sfakianakis Subject: [esp-r] Air supply and extraction from zones connected with a crack To: "'esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk'" Message-ID: <44D295EFFE81BF4492C25E87AC1D499701C247CB7154 at E2K7-MS3.ds.strath.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dear list, I am modelling a room with an en-suite bathroom where I have air supplied to the room and air extracted from the bathroom. The two zones are connected with a crack (under the door) in the flow network defined. Today I tried representing the HVAC system with the actual plant components however I couldn't define air supply to one zone and air extraction from the other since when I define air extraction from the bathroom, Esp-r asks for the supply component. Has anyone ever faced any similar situation with air supply and extraction from adjacent zones that are connected with a crack? What strategy should I use? Thanks Dimitris -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130125/6b627bd5/attachment-0001.html ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r End of esp-r Digest, Vol 78, Issue 9 ************************************ From aizaz.a.samuel at strath.ac.uk Mon Jan 28 12:26:23 2013 From: aizaz.a.samuel at strath.ac.uk (Aizaz Samuel) Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 12:26:23 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Air supply and extraction from zones connected with a crack In-Reply-To: <26CE7FD348C2F7419094326E776EF6343AB189@bsexg3.gph.ch> References: <26CE7FD348C2F7419094326E776EF6343AB189@bsexg3.gph.ch> Message-ID: <51066E6F.3090706@strath.ac.uk> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130128/c14c08b7/attachment-0001.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 46666 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130128/c14c08b7/attachment-0001.jpe From achim.geissler at fhnw.ch Fri Feb 1 15:31:36 2013 From: achim.geissler at fhnw.ch (Geissler Achim) Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 15:31:36 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] CISBAT Conference - Call for Papers - deadline extended to February 10! Message-ID: Dear ESP-r group due to the extension of the paper submission deadline I would like to repeat the call posting in this group. Again, sorry for any cross-postings. There will be a IBPSA-CH session during the conference, with special focus planned on practical simulation problems and their solutions. Go for it! Best Achim [Beschreibung: bandeau_06.jpg] Final CALL FOR PAPERS - Extended deadline 10 February 2013 CISBAT 2013 International Scientific Conference CLEANTECH FOR SMART CITIES & BUILDINGS >From Nano to Urban Scale 4-6 September 2013, EPFL, Lausanne, Switzerland www.cisbat.org In response to numerous requests, we are pleased to extend the abstract submission deadline of the CISBAT 2013 International Conference to 10 February 2013. Sustainability in the built environment is one of key issues for research and political action today. The biannual CISBAT Conference offers a platform for the presentation of the latest scientific research in the field, across a wide range of disciplines. We are delighted to announce the 12th CISBAT Conference to take place at EPFL in Lausanne, Switzerland from 4th to 6th September 2013 and to issue a call for scientific papers in the following domains: 1. Nanostructured materials for renewable energies (solar nanotechnologies) 2. Sustainable building envelopes (ecobuildings) 3. Solar active and passive cooling (natural ventilation) 4. Daylighting and electric lighting (green lighting) 5. Indoor environment quality (occupants comfort, health and behaviour) 6. Advanced building control systems (biomimetic strategies) 7. Urban ecology and metabolism (material and energy flows) 8. Integration of renewable energy in the built environment (electricity, heating and cooling) 9. Building and urban simulation (smart cities and buildings) - IBPSA CH Session 10. Information technologies and software (computer simulation) The Conference will feature high-level keynotes as well as technical oral and poster sessions and opportunities to show software developments. Extended abstracts should be submitted by 10 February 2013 through the online submission form. Format: one page A4, minimum 320 words (plus optionally one page with figures and/or references), with title, full details of corresponding author + relevant domain among those above. For details -- scope of the conference, venue, registration, scientific committee and soon also keynote speakers --, please refer to www.cisbat.org Conference host: Swiss Federal Institute of Technology in Lausanne (EPFL), Switzerland Scientific Partners: Cambridge University, Massachusetts Institute of Technology, IBPSA Switzerland --------------------------------------------------------------------- Fachhochschule Nordwestschweiz Hochschule f?r Architektur, Bau und Geomatik Institut Energie am Bau Prof. Dr.-Ing. Achim Geissler Leiter Gruppe Bau St. Jakobs-Strasse 84 CH-4132 Muttenz --------------------------------------------------------------------- T +41 61 467 44 51 F +41 61 467 45 43 achim.geissler at fhnw.ch www.fhnw.ch/iebau --------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130201/9dc1d824/attachment-0001.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 95009 bytes Desc: image001.jpg Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130201/9dc1d824/attachment-0001.jpg From cn06arc at leeds.ac.uk Fri Feb 1 17:45:54 2013 From: cn06arc at leeds.ac.uk (Andrew Cowie) Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 17:45:54 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] problem with parallel implementation including CFD Message-ID: Hi all, I'm running multiple instances of ESP-r in parallel on a HPC cluster. When CFD is included in the analyses it always crashes with a Fortran runtime error: end of file (always at line 152 of cfutil.F). I'm in the process of tracing the error now, i just wondered if anyone more familiar with the workings of the DFS module knows of a reason why this might be happening, for example a temporary file that might be being written to at the same time by the multiple parallel instances of ESP-r. It only seems to happen when it is run in parallel, and does not seem to happen every time, which is what leads me to believe that this may be the problem. Cheers, Andy Cowie From aizaz.a.samuel at strath.ac.uk Sun Feb 3 19:52:56 2013 From: aizaz.a.samuel at strath.ac.uk (Aizaz Samuel) Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2013 19:52:56 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: problem with parallel implementation including CFD In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <510EC018.3020605@strath.ac.uk> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130203/93a96a4f/attachment-0001.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: THE_Uni_of_the_Year_Logo.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 46666 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130203/93a96a4f/attachment-0001.jpg From cn06arc at leeds.ac.uk Sun Feb 3 20:59:28 2013 From: cn06arc at leeds.ac.uk (Andrew Cowie) Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2013 20:59:28 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: problem with parallel implementation including CFD Message-ID: Aizaz, Interesting, I seem to have solved the problem by a somewhat cheeky hack. I have added an extra command line option/argument pair to the bps module that is appended onto the temp_DFS file if given; I simply use the parallel worker index as the argument. Seems to have done the trick, if I still encounter problems though I will give your solution a try. Cheers, Andy ----- Reply message ----- From: "Aizaz Samuel" To: "esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk" Subject: [esp-r] Re: problem with parallel implementation including CFD Date: Sun, Feb 3, 2013 19:53 Andrew, I had a similar problem when trying to run multiple instances on an HPC. The models did not have CFD active though. Don't know how applicable that would be to your case but I overcame the problem by running the different instances from different directories (which were copies of each other). Regards, Aizaz Dr Aizaz Samuel Energy Systems Research Unit Department of Mechanical and Aerospace Engineering University of Strathclyde, Temporary Address: University Centre (above Sports Centre) 347 Cathedral Street GLASGOW, UK G1 2TB e: samuel at esru.strath.ac.uk t: +44 141 548 5765 f: +44 141 552 5105 w: www.strath.ac.uk/esru [cid:part3.03010902.00050309 at strath.ac.uk] On 01/02/13 17:45, Andrew Cowie wrote: Hi all, I'm running multiple instances of ESP-r in parallel on a HPC cluster. When CFD is included in the analyses it always crashes with a Fortran runtime error: end of file (always at line 152 of cfutil.F). I'm in the process of tracing the error now, i just wondered if anyone more familiar with the workings of the DFS module knows of a reason why this might be happening, for example a temporary file that might be being written to at the same time by the multiple parallel instances of ESP-r. It only seems to happen when it is run in parallel, and does not seem to happen every time, which is what leads me to believe that this may be the problem. Cheers, Andy Cowie _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: THE_Uni_of_the_Year_Logo.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 46666 bytes Desc: THE_Uni_of_the_Year_Logo.jpg Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130203/4d7609cd/attachment-0001.jpg From idanordb at stud.ntnu.no Wed Feb 6 19:39:28 2013 From: idanordb at stud.ntnu.no (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ida_Nordbotten_V=E5gen?=) Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2013 20:39:28 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Ventilation and energy Message-ID: Hello. I have a question regarding supplied ventilation air flow. I've registered an airflow supplied to the simulated zone, controlled by a schedule. The supply air has a given temperature, given by me, and this varies with the air flow. My question is: - The energy needed to heat/cool the air before supplying it to the zone, how is this calculated (and this varies with the outdoor temperature, right?)? - Is this a part of total heat gain/cooling gain in the 'Result Analysis'? I am still a novice using ESP-r, so any replies would be appreciated. Regards, Ida -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130206/1a490c3d/attachment.html From achim.geissler at intergga.ch Thu Feb 7 17:55:32 2013 From: achim.geissler at intergga.ch (Achim Geissler) Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2013 18:55:32 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Ventilation and energy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <36F60175-9017-4AC1-AD77-C4B36DC9C343@intergga.ch> Dear Ida I'm afraid I can't really answer your question (part of the problem being that I am not entirely sure about how you set up what you describe), however, I would suggest trying some quick tests if you do not get any other answers from the group in a useful time: 1) change your air input temperature to "ambient" (if possible with the method you chose), note the heating load 2) change your air input temperature to any given value (possibly constant) which is somewhere between the ambient and indoor temperature and again note the heating load The difference in various output listings in the results analysis should give you a good idea on what is happening. Best Achim On Feb 6, 2013, at 8:39 PM, Ida Nordbotten V?gen wrote: > Hello. > > I have a question regarding supplied ventilation air flow. > I've registered an airflow supplied to the simulated zone, controlled by a schedule. The supply air has a given temperature, given by me, and this varies with the air flow. > My question is: > > - The energy needed to heat/cool the air before supplying it to the zone, how is this calculated (and this varies with the outdoor temperature, right?)? > - Is this a part of total heat gain/cooling gain in the 'Result Analysis'? > > I am still a novice using ESP-r, so any replies would be appreciated. > > Regards, Ida > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r achim.geissler at intergga.ch From wakana-m at ec.hokudai.ac.jp Mon Feb 18 09:27:10 2013 From: wakana-m at ec.hokudai.ac.jp (wakana-m at ec.hokudai.ac.jp) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 18:27:10 +0900 Subject: [esp-r] Casual gains Message-ID: <20130218092710.0000369A.0173@ec.hokudai.ac.jp> Dear everyone, Hello. I am making a building model. I am trying to input casual gains. Now I input the schedule of gains. The schedule I input was as below; 0:00-9:00 0W 9:00-17:00 1300W 17:00-24:00 0W I simulated my model and I checked its result. The value of gains was as below; 8:30 0W 9:30 650W 10:30 1300W ----- 16:30 1300W 17:30 650W 18:30 0W I think it takes 2 hours to maximize gains. I want gains to change every hour like this; 8:30 0W 9:30 1300W 10:30 1300W ----- 16:30 1300W 17:30 1300W 18:30 0W I attach the excel file about the gains. How should I input the schedule ? We would really appreciate your advice. Best regards, Wakana Matsumoto -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: gain.xlsx Type: application/vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument.spreadsheetml.sheet Size: 11397 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130218/f5333935/attachment.bin From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Mon Feb 18 12:11:24 2013 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 12:11:24 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Casual gains In-Reply-To: <20130218092710.0000369A.0173@ec.hokudai.ac.jp> References: <20130218092710.0000369A.0173@ec.hokudai.ac.jp> Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA41301C6B1618C83@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> A question about step-changes in casual gains.... The solver in ESP-r works by solving for the current timestep and future timestep and then saving the average state. The result of this is that casual gains for the current timestep and the future state are averaged when the performance data is written out. To make the transition quicker run the simulation at a short timestep (say 5 minutes rather than one hour). -Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of wakana-m at ec.hokudai.ac.jp [wakana-m at ec.hokudai.ac.jp] Sent: 18 February 2013 09:27 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Casual gains Dear everyone, Hello. I am making a building model. I am trying to input casual gains. Now I input the schedule of gains. The schedule I input was as below; 0:00-9:00 0W 9:00-17:00 1300W 17:00-24:00 0W I simulated my model and I checked its result. The value of gains was as below; 8:30 0W 9:30 650W 10:30 1300W ----- 16:30 1300W 17:30 650W 18:30 0W I think it takes 2 hours to maximize gains. I want gains to change every hour like this; 8:30 0W 9:30 1300W 10:30 1300W ----- 16:30 1300W 17:30 1300W 18:30 0W I attach the excel file about the gains. How should I input the schedule ? We would really appreciate your advice. Best regards, Wakana Matsumoto From panos.bandit at gmail.com Wed Feb 20 14:23:17 2013 From: panos.bandit at gmail.com (Panos Rigos) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 15:23:17 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] comfort metrics Message-ID: Dear all, I am trying to check the results about comfort in results analysis and I have this problem: In summary statistics Even when I choose the occupied period of the day in which I want to check some comfort metrics I get the results for the whole day and of course I get bad results for the unoccupied period. I tried both options, selecting which gain corresponds to my occupancy and setting my own period in the day. But the results are always for all the hours of the day. Can I do something to fix this? Thank you, Panos -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130220/317320d1/attachment.html From l.lars at gmx.de Fri Mar 1 16:39:08 2013 From: l.lars at gmx.de (l.lars) Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2013 10:39:08 -0600 Subject: [esp-r] Time:var graph for solar at ext face surf Message-ID: <5130D9AC.7070708@gmx.de> Hello, I am looking for a solution to show a time-variable graph for the diffuse and direct radiation on an external wall. I got a very simple model. It is just a box without any windows, with just an inclined roof and some shading bodies. Is there a way to get an time-(direct solar radiation on the outside of the roof) graph? I just can find in the var.vsvar menu "solar at ext face" but nothing in the time-var menue. At the end, this should be the import for a pv model. So I need to know how much radiation is available on that roof. Thanks for your help Lars From achim.geissler at intergga.ch Fri Mar 1 20:15:14 2013 From: achim.geissler at intergga.ch (Achim Geissler) Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2013 21:15:14 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Time:var graph for solar at ext face surf In-Reply-To: <5130D9AC.7070708@gmx.de> References: <5130D9AC.7070708@gmx.de> Message-ID: Hi Lars I am not sure if you will get direct and diffuse separately via res (I think not). Anyway, in < tabular output, performance metrics, time step reports, surface flux > you find which, as far as I recall, is total short wave (aka solar) radiation on the surface of choice. You can also try xml output, however I am not sure that this gives out direct and diffuse components separately, either (in the official version). Of course, you could also monitor a north faced (for locations in the northern hemisphere, that is) surface to get an idea of the diffuse component. Sorry I don't have any more ideas. Maybe someone else will chip in. Best Achim On Mar 1, 2013, at 5:39 PM, l.lars wrote: > Hello, > I am looking for a solution to show a time-variable graph for the > diffuse and direct radiation on an external wall. > I got a very simple model. It is just a box without any windows, with > just an inclined roof and some shading bodies. > Is there a way to get an time-(direct solar radiation on the outside of > the roof) graph? I just can find in the var.vsvar menu "solar at ext > face" but nothing in the time-var menue. > At the end, this should be the import for a pv model. So I need to know > how much radiation is available on that roof. > > Thanks for your help > Lars > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > achim.geissler at intergga.ch From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Mon Mar 4 08:08:39 2013 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2013 08:08:39 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Time:var graph for solar at ext face surf In-Reply-To: References: <5130D9AC.7070708@gmx.de>, Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA41301C6B1618CD1@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> Solar radiation calculations are handled in src/esrubld/solar.F The variable for absorbed solar radiation on an external surface (QSOLE) is calculated near line 957 of this file. The good news is that the 'trace' reporting for solar calculations includes the current direct and diffuse solar picked up from the weather file as well as the intermediate calculations which could assist you in your research. You can turn on the trace facilities via a menu option in the simulator. Of course, ESP-r being open source allows you to single step through the code to explore just how the simulator is dealing with solar issues in your model ;-) Regards, Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Achim Geissler [achim.geissler at intergga.ch] Sent: 01 March 2013 20:15 To: l.lars Cc: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Re: Time:var graph for solar at ext face surf Hi Lars I am not sure if you will get direct and diffuse separately via res (I think not). Anyway, in < tabular output, performance metrics, time step reports, surface flux > you find which, as far as I recall, is total short wave (aka solar) radiation on the surface of choice. You can also try xml output, however I am not sure that this gives out direct and diffuse components separately, either (in the official version). Of course, you could also monitor a north faced (for locations in the northern hemisphere, that is) surface to get an idea of the diffuse component. Sorry I don't have any more ideas. Maybe someone else will chip in. Best Achim On Mar 1, 2013, at 5:39 PM, l.lars wrote: > Hello, > I am looking for a solution to show a time-variable graph for the > diffuse and direct radiation on an external wall. > I got a very simple model. It is just a box without any windows, with > just an inclined roof and some shading bodies. > Is there a way to get an time-(direct solar radiation on the outside of > the roof) graph? I just can find in the var.vsvar menu "solar at ext > face" but nothing in the time-var menue. > At the end, this should be the import for a pv model. So I need to know > how much radiation is available on that roof. > > Thanks for your help > Lars > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > achim.geissler at intergga.ch _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Mon Mar 4 08:09:49 2013 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2013 08:09:49 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Time:var graph for solar at ext face surf In-Reply-To: <5130D9AC.7070708@gmx.de> References: <5130D9AC.7070708@gmx.de> Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA41301C6B1618CD2@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> A question about direct and diffuse solar radiation... One way of looking at the relationship between direct and diffuse is to use the res time-step listing facility - focus on the direct and diffuse solar in the weather data, list it via the time step reports with comma or tab separators and then import the data into a spreadsheet as a scatter plot. -Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of l.lars [l.lars at gmx.de] Sent: 01 March 2013 16:39 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Time:var graph for solar at ext face surf Hello, I am looking for a solution to show a time-variable graph for the diffuse and direct radiation on an external wall. I got a very simple model. It is just a box without any windows, with just an inclined roof and some shading bodies. Is there a way to get an time-(direct solar radiation on the outside of the roof) graph? I just can find in the var.vsvar menu "solar at ext face" but nothing in the time-var menue. At the end, this should be the import for a pv model. So I need to know how much radiation is available on that roof. Thanks for your help Lars _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From dimitrios.sfakianakis at strath.ac.uk Fri Mar 8 13:58:57 2013 From: dimitrios.sfakianakis at strath.ac.uk (Dimitrios Sfakianakis) Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2013 13:58:57 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] 4 stage heater Message-ID: <44D295EFFE81BF4492C25E87AC1D499701C31E910F4A@E2K7-MS3.ds.strath.ac.uk> Dear list, I am modelling an HVAC plant at a component level. The air handling unit includes a 4-stage heater, which can operate in one of these 4 stages: 20kW 40kW 60kW and 80kW. I have managed to control the heater with a PID controller however I have not found a way to force it to take only these 4 discrete values. Are there any techniques integrated in Esp-r in order to model/control such a component? Kind regards, - Dimitrios Sfakianakis -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130308/d63be937/attachment.html From ringo.satyarr at gmail.com Fri Mar 8 22:40:31 2013 From: ringo.satyarr at gmail.com (Satya) Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2013 04:10:31 +0530 Subject: [esp-r] Complex Geometry Input: Optimized Approach Message-ID: Dear Fellow ESP-r Users, I intend to investigate the thermal performance of a house having one floor, multiple zones (10 rooms), multi-layered walls a ventilated porch and numerous obstructions. After going through some of the threads in the archive I learned that importing/exporting isn't always possible, and when it is there are issues like 'Ecotect models can be exported into ESP-r but shading should be added using ESP-r' and that adding windows and roofs are tricky in ESP-r. So, considering the description of the house, what in your opinion would be the best way to carry out the simulation? I'm looking for something like 'Build CAD model using XYZ software, add windows using ABC and add the roof using PQR, then import into ESP-r and finally add zone and construction data' - or something like that. Also, as a newbie, I am unable to make satisfactory use of the Cookbook and much of what the ESRU site provides. Anyone know of any better sources for tutorials? And lastly, I had come across a thread in which someone spoke of testing the Beta version of an interface which would make modelling in ESP-r '80% faster'. Does something like that exist? Thanks in advance and regards, S -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130309/7c07f5f4/attachment.html From manzan at units.it Mon Mar 11 09:03:44 2013 From: manzan at units.it (Marco Manzan) Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 10:03:44 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: comfort metrics (Panos Rigos) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6678597.jvDC8El8EU@udine> dear Panos yes the filtering in res is wrong, I've corrected the problem and you can modify the source code using my version 7875 of Marco_Manzan branch svn merge -r 7874:7875 https://espr.svn.cvsdude.com/esp- r/branches/Marco_Manzan this changes the file "src/esrures/comfort.F" and so the statistics take care of the occupied periods only best regards Marco Manzan In data mercoled? 20 febbraio 2013 17:30:01, esp-r-request at lists.strath.ac.uk ha scritto: > Send esp-r mailing list submissions to > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > esp-r-request at lists.strath.ac.uk > > You can reach the person managing the list at > esp-r-owner at lists.strath.ac.uk > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of esp-r digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. comfort metrics (Panos Rigos) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 15:23:17 +0100 > From: Panos Rigos > Subject: [esp-r] comfort metrics > To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Dear all, > > I am trying to check the results about comfort in results analysis and I > have this problem: In summary statistics Even when I choose the occupied > period of the day in which I want to check some comfort metrics I get the > results for the whole day and of course I get bad results for the > unoccupied period. I tried both options, selecting which gain corresponds > to my occupancy and setting my own period in the day. But the results are > always for all the hours of the day. Can I do something to fix this? > > Thank you, > > Panos > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130220/317320d1/atta > chment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > > End of esp-r Digest, Vol 79, Issue 8 > ************************************ -- _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ |Marco Manzan Email: manzan at units.it | |Tel: (+39) 040 5583506 Fax : (+39) 040 572033 | |Dipartimento di Ingegneria e Architettura | |Universita' degli Studi di Trieste | |piazzale Europa 1, 34127 TRIESTE | |_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _| From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Mon Mar 11 13:54:27 2013 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 13:54:27 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Complex Geometry Input: Optimized Approach In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA41301C9A41B2261@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> ESP-r includes its own CAD functions, it is possible to input the scale of complexity that you describe via the in-built interface. If you were working with the 'X11' interface you could take a bitmap image of the plan of the house and use the click-on-bitmap faciility. The Ecotect export facility (unless it has changed) writes to an ancient version of ESP-r. You do not mention which version of Ecotect you are using. It might be that someone in the community might have had experience working with an exported Ecotect model. Realistically, going through multiple tools just to compose geometry seems like lots of places for the process to break down and entities to be mis-interpreted. I can imagine some roof forms which would be tedious to create - a geodesic dome or a hyperbolic paraboloid would be examples. Windows - they are just polygons which have additional attributes which let short-wave radiation pass. Rectangular windows are not much of a hassle, approximating a round window would take longer. The main issue is trying to put more than a couple of windows within a single wall. Much better to subdivide walls if there are going to be lots of windows in a facade. Some people adapt to the ESP-r interface, others find it problematic. I attach a link to a short video showing the modification of a zone to include a sloped ceiling and some of the in-built trig functions. https://dl.dropbox.com/u/17785121/video_tutorials/geometry_transforms_wc.mp4 Could you be more specific about the phrase 'I am unable to make satisfactory use of the Cookbook' Do you need more detail or less detail? Does it miss some topics that are of interest? I can send you links to other video tutorials about materials and constructions and air flow networks if requested. Also - it is polite to you give your name when requesting help. Tell us a bit about what goals you have for your simulation model. It might be possible that you do not need to represent all 10 zones or you might need more zones to make a model that is fit-for-purpose. -Regards, Jon Hand, ESRU ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Satya [ringo.satyarr at gmail.com] Sent: 08 March 2013 22:40 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Complex Geometry Input: Optimized Approach Dear Fellow ESP-r Users, I intend to investigate the thermal performance of a house having one floor, multiple zones (10 rooms), multi-layered walls a ventilated porch and numerous obstructions. After going through some of the threads in the archive I learned that importing/exporting isn't always possible, and when it is there are issues like 'Ecotect models can be exported into ESP-r but shading should be added using ESP-r' and that adding windows and roofs are tricky in ESP-r. So, considering the description of the house, what in your opinion would be the best way to carry out the simulation? I'm looking for something like 'Build CAD model using XYZ software, add windows using ABC and add the roof using PQR, then import into ESP-r and finally add zone and construction data' - or something like that. Also, as a newbie, I am unable to make satisfactory use of the Cookbook and much of what the ESRU site provides. Anyone know of any better sources for tutorials? And lastly, I had come across a thread in which someone spoke of testing the Beta version of an interface which would make modelling in ESP-r '80% faster'. Does something like that exist? Thanks in advance and regards, S From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Mon Mar 11 14:44:29 2013 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 14:44:29 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Complex Geometry Input: Optimized Approach In-Reply-To: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA41301C9A41B2261@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> References: , <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA41301C9A41B2261@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA41301C9A41B2263@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> Additional thoughts - 10 zones is more information than a novice will be used to dealing with. Start simple - learn via a three zone model and when comfortable with that level of complexity then try your house. It will take less time and you will make fewer errors. And tell us more about 'ventilated porch'. -Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Jon Hand [jon at esru.strath.ac.uk] Sent: 11 March 2013 13:54 To: Satya; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Re: Complex Geometry Input: Optimized Approach ESP-r includes its own CAD functions, it is possible to input the scale of complexity that you describe via the in-built interface. If you were working with the 'X11' interface you could take a bitmap image of the plan of the house and use the click-on-bitmap faciility. The Ecotect export facility (unless it has changed) writes to an ancient version of ESP-r. You do not mention which version of Ecotect you are using. It might be that someone in the community might have had experience working with an exported Ecotect model. Realistically, going through multiple tools just to compose geometry seems like lots of places for the process to break down and entities to be mis-interpreted. I can imagine some roof forms which would be tedious to create - a geodesic dome or a hyperbolic paraboloid would be examples. Windows - they are just polygons which have additional attributes which let short-wave radiation pass. Rectangular windows are not much of a hassle, approximating a round window would take longer. The main issue is trying to put more than a couple of windows within a single wall. Much better to subdivide walls if there are going to be lots of windows in a facade. Some people adapt to the ESP-r interface, others find it problematic. I attach a link to a short video showing the modification of a zone to include a sloped ceiling and some of the in-built trig functions. https://dl.dropbox.com/u/17785121/video_tutorials/geometry_transforms_wc.mp4 Could you be more specific about the phrase 'I am unable to make satisfactory use of the Cookbook' Do you need more detail or less detail? Does it miss some topics that are of interest? I can send you links to other video tutorials about materials and constructions and air flow networks if requested. Also - it is polite to you give your name when requesting help. Tell us a bit about what goals you have for your simulation model. It might be possible that you do not need to represent all 10 zones or you might need more zones to make a model that is fit-for-purpose. -Regards, Jon Hand, ESRU ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Satya [ringo.satyarr at gmail.com] Sent: 08 March 2013 22:40 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Complex Geometry Input: Optimized Approach Dear Fellow ESP-r Users, I intend to investigate the thermal performance of a house having one floor, multiple zones (10 rooms), multi-layered walls a ventilated porch and numerous obstructions. After going through some of the threads in the archive I learned that importing/exporting isn't always possible, and when it is there are issues like 'Ecotect models can be exported into ESP-r but shading should be added using ESP-r' and that adding windows and roofs are tricky in ESP-r. So, considering the description of the house, what in your opinion would be the best way to carry out the simulation? I'm looking for something like 'Build CAD model using XYZ software, add windows using ABC and add the roof using PQR, then import into ESP-r and finally add zone and construction data' - or something like that. Also, as a newbie, I am unable to make satisfactory use of the Cookbook and much of what the ESRU site provides. Anyone know of any better sources for tutorials? And lastly, I had come across a thread in which someone spoke of testing the Beta version of an interface which would make modelling in ESP-r '80% faster'. Does something like that exist? Thanks in advance and regards, S _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Mon Mar 11 15:04:10 2013 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 15:04:10 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: 4 stage heater In-Reply-To: <44D295EFFE81BF4492C25E87AC1D499701C31E910F4A@E2K7-MS3.ds.strath.ac.uk> References: <44D295EFFE81BF4492C25E87AC1D499701C31E910F4A@E2K7-MS3.ds.strath.ac.uk> Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA41301C9A41B2265@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> Have you considered treating each stage as a separate component, each triggered by slightly different on/off logic control. Whether these would be in parallel or series would be your choice. And perhaps you do not need to represent the heater with the plant side. There is an ideal zone control which is a multi-sage heater (fixed increments), you could use that with a geometrically simple zone acting as a mixing box instead of the plant heater component. -Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Dimitrios Sfakianakis [dimitrios.sfakianakis at strath.ac.uk] Sent: 08 March 2013 13:58 To: 'esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk' Subject: [esp-r] 4 stage heater Dear list, I am modelling an HVAC plant at a component level. The air handling unit includes a 4-stage heater, which can operate in one of these 4 stages: 20kW 40kW 60kW and 80kW. I have managed to control the heater with a PID controller however I have not found a way to force it to take only these 4 discrete values. Are there any techniques integrated in Esp-r in order to model/control such a component? Kind regards, - Dimitrios Sfakianakis From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Wed Mar 13 14:19:23 2013 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 14:19:23 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Getting your ideas embedded within ESP-r! Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA41301C9A41B2286@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> Support for getting your ideas embedded within ESP-r ESP-r exists in a community of developers and an idea that working together we leverage individual contributions. Contributions are at every imaginable scale from improving the phrasing of help messages, correcting spelling mistakes, adding new reporting features as well as implementing new methods or identifying and correcting glitches so that others do not have to suffer such irritants. This is a reminder for those of you who have not recently contributed to ESP-r that there are a number of forms of support for source code management and testing. We really do want contributions from students and researchers as well as the usual crowd. ESP-r evolves, sometimes several times in a week based on folk sharing via a process that identifes unintended consequences of contributions before they have an impact on the work of others in the user and development community. The process is multi-step and while it is somewhat pedantic it is learn-able and it is documented. There are ways of managing code changes and using the source code control that make the task of the archivist (Ian Beausoleil-Morrison) more straightforward. There are also simple steps you can take to simplify your processes and reduce confusion for yourself and others. The links to the captioned video tutorials below can be viewed in conjunction with sections 8 and 10 of the Developers Guide (also linked). If in doubt, check these out. If you think you are a bit rusty, use these to walk-through a simple contribution to refresh your skills. And of course we can improve the videos and documents so suggestions are welcome. Regards, Jon Hand Here are some useful links: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/17785121/video_tutorials/svn_merge_from_dev.mp4 https://dl.dropbox.com/u/17785121/video_tutorials/syntax_check_wc.mp4 https://dl.dropbox.com/u/17785121/video_tutorials/Ten_min_compile_test_version_wc.mp4 https://dl.dropbox.com/u/17785121/video_tutorials/tm_running_tester_wc.mp4 https://dl.dropbox.com/u/17785121/video_tutorials/tm_take_this_contribution_wc.mp4 https://dl.dropbox.com/u/17785121/video_tutorials/debug_setup_and_tour_wc.mp4 https://dl.dropbox.com/u/17785121/video_tutorials/ddd_debug_session_wc.mp4 https://dl.dropbox.com/u/17785121/video_tutorials/overview_of_windows_dev_folders_wc.mp4 https://dl.dropbox.com/u/17785121/video_tutorials/native_windows_compile_cycle_wca.mp4 https://dl.dropbox.com/u/17785121/ESP-r_developers_doc_2012.pdf From huangjy0104 at yahoo.cn Fri Mar 15 14:45:13 2013 From: huangjy0104 at yahoo.cn (=?utf-8?B?55Kf55GcIOm7hA==?=) Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2013 22:45:13 +0800 (CST) Subject: [esp-r] ERROR:zone 1 surface 2 pane temperature out of bounds at time 1.000 Message-ID: <1363358713.63270.YahooMailNeo@web92406.mail.cnh.yahoo.com> Dear all: ?I have created a new component and tried to?oonnect it with Type 56, but there were two errors : 1.zone 1 surface 2 pane temperature out of bounds at time 1.000 2.outside temperature of 1(external) wall in zone 1at time 1.00 not converged I can't understand what's means? And could you tell me how to solve it ? Thanks? Jingyu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130315/e2c009ac/attachment.html From l.lars at gmx.de Wed Mar 27 22:49:24 2013 From: l.lars at gmx.de (l.lars) Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2013 17:49:24 -0500 Subject: [esp-r] How does esp-r calculates the shading coefficients .shda Message-ID: <51537774.5030408@gmx.de> Hello, is there a way to figure out, how ESP-r calculates the shading factors you can find in the .shda file? I wonna try to improve the software, so that you can use different shading bodies. Not only boxes. Thanks for your help Lars From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Thu Mar 28 10:35:09 2013 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2013 10:35:09 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: How does esp-r calculates the shading coefficients .shda In-Reply-To: <51537774.5030408@gmx.de> References: <51537774.5030408@gmx.de> Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA41301C9A5B39020@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> Shading is calculated in the 'ish' module of ESP-r. The code is documented and is also described in Joe Clarke's book (2nd edition). Note that there are two sets of calculations - an initial pass to calculate shading (some intermediate information is stored in temporary files) and a 2nd pass to calculation the insolation distribution within rooms. There are LOTS of transforms done. In lots of different places so allocate time for review of the code. There is a 'trace' facility that will write out the intermediate results. Consider also running the ish module in a debugging environment so you can single-step through the calculations. -Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of l.lars [l.lars at gmx.de] Sent: 27 March 2013 22:49 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] How does esp-r calculates the shading coefficients .shda Hello, is there a way to figure out, how ESP-r calculates the shading factors you can find in the .shda file? I wonna try to improve the software, so that you can use different shading bodies. Not only boxes. Thanks for your help Lars _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From ringo.satyarr at gmail.com Sat Mar 30 19:48:29 2013 From: ringo.satyarr at gmail.com (Satya) Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2013 01:18:29 +0530 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Complex Geometry Input: Optimized Approach In-Reply-To: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA41301C9A41B2263@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> References: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA41301C9A41B2261@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA41301C9A41B2263@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> Message-ID: Hi Thanks a lot for the advice and the videos. I have discarded the Ecotect idea and will work entirely on ESP-r. I was unable to make satisfactory use of the cookbook because I had not been using it along with the 'Exercises'. I am almost done with both the books and I've enjoyed myself going through them. I shall soon attempt the modelling and simulation and post further enquiries here. Thank you Satya On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 8:14 PM, Jon Hand wrote: > > Additional thoughts - 10 zones is more information than a novice will be > used to dealing with. Start simple - learn via a three zone model and > when comfortable with that level of complexity then try your house. It > will take less time and you will make fewer errors. > > And tell us more about 'ventilated porch'. > > -Jon Hand > ________________________________________ > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] > On Behalf Of Jon Hand [jon at esru.strath.ac.uk] > Sent: 11 March 2013 13:54 > To: Satya; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Subject: [esp-r] Re: Complex Geometry Input: Optimized Approach > > ESP-r includes its own CAD functions, it is possible to input the scale of > complexity > that you describe via the in-built interface. If you were working with > the 'X11' interface > you could take a bitmap image of the plan of the house and use the > click-on-bitmap > faciility. > > The Ecotect export facility (unless it has changed) writes to an ancient > version of ESP-r. > You do not mention which version of Ecotect you are using. It might be > that someone > in the community might have had experience working with an exported > Ecotect model. > > Realistically, going through multiple tools just to compose geometry seems > like lots of places for the > process to break down and entities to be mis-interpreted. > > I can imagine some roof forms which would be tedious to create - a > geodesic dome or a > hyperbolic paraboloid would be examples. Windows - they are just polygons > which have > additional attributes which let short-wave radiation pass. Rectangular > windows are not > much of a hassle, approximating a round window would take longer. The > main issue > is trying to put more than a couple of windows within a single wall. Much > better to subdivide > walls if there are going to be lots of windows in a facade. > > Some people adapt to the ESP-r interface, others find it problematic. I > attach a link to > a short video showing the modification of a zone to include a sloped > ceiling and some of > the in-built trig functions. > > > https://dl.dropbox.com/u/17785121/video_tutorials/geometry_transforms_wc.mp4 > > Could you be more specific about the phrase 'I am unable to make > satisfactory use of the Cookbook' > Do you need more detail or less detail? Does it miss some topics that are > of interest? > > I can send you links to other video tutorials about materials and > constructions and > air flow networks if requested. > > Also - it is polite to you give your name when requesting help. Tell us a > bit about > what goals you have for your simulation model. It might be possible that > you do not > need to represent all 10 zones or you might need more zones to make a > model that > is fit-for-purpose. > > -Regards, Jon Hand, ESRU > > ________________________________________ > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] > On Behalf Of Satya [ringo.satyarr at gmail.com] > Sent: 08 March 2013 22:40 > To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Subject: [esp-r] Complex Geometry Input: Optimized Approach > > Dear Fellow ESP-r Users, > > I intend to investigate the thermal performance of a house having > > one floor, > multiple zones (10 rooms), > multi-layered walls > a ventilated porch and > numerous obstructions. > > After going through some of the threads in the archive I learned that > importing/exporting isn't always possible, and when it is there are issues > like 'Ecotect models can be exported into ESP-r but shading should be added > using ESP-r' and that adding windows and roofs are tricky in ESP-r. > > So, considering the description of the house, what in your opinion would > be the best way to carry out the simulation? > > I'm looking for something like 'Build CAD model using XYZ software, add > windows using ABC and add the roof using PQR, then import into ESP-r and > finally add zone and construction data' - or something like that. > > Also, as a newbie, I am unable to make satisfactory use of the Cookbook > and much of what the ESRU site provides. Anyone know of any better sources > for tutorials? > > And lastly, I had come across a thread in which someone spoke of testing > the Beta version of an interface which would make modelling in ESP-r '80% > faster'. Does something like that exist? > > > > Thanks in advance and regards, > S > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130331/ace64fb1/attachment.html From TuckerS3 at cardiff.ac.uk Fri Apr 5 17:19:51 2013 From: TuckerS3 at cardiff.ac.uk (Simon Tucker) Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2013 17:19:51 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] simulation outputs survey Message-ID: Dear all, We are running a pilot questionnaire as part of our research project called ‘Developing better outputs from building thermal simulation tools to improve decision making in the design of low energy buildings’ and would be really happy if you could complete it. It is very short, and can be found at; https://www.surveys.cardiff.ac.uk/simulation The questionnaire is part of a study that aims to promote and aid the design of the next generation of energy-efficient low carbon buildings through the development of appropriate simulation post-processing and data representation systems that can be more easily integrated into the design process than current ones. The questions refer to goals, aims and actions involved in design activities as well as to analysis processes and useful information to design decision making. They refer to how building designers work and act in practice and are useful for simulation software developers to produce meaningful post-processed information and data representation systems to building designers. For further information on the project please see; http://www.cardiff.ac.uk/archi/bleil-de-souza_projects.php Many thanks for your attention. Dr Clarice Bleil de Souza Dr Simon Tucker Welsh School of Architecture Cardiff University Bute Building King Edward VII Avenue Cardiff CF10 3NB United Kingdom T: +44 29 2087 5969 T: +44 29 2087 5149 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130405/7eb56c64/attachment.html From ida.auraen at gmail.com Mon Apr 8 14:55:49 2013 From: ida.auraen at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ida_Aur=E5en?=) Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2013 15:55:49 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] slab-on-grade hydronic floor in a solar heating system Message-ID: Hello. I have a question regarding slab-on-grade hydronic floor under the "plant and systems" menu. I'm trying to create a solar heating system with the following components: 1) "simplified flat plate solar collector", 2) "Variable speed domestic WHC pump" and 3) "slab-on-grade hydronic floor". I have linked all these three components and defined where heat is being injected in the zone. I have also set up the control loop with sensor, actuator and defined period data. But when I want to run a simulation and check the results I just get a message saying "Library is incomplete or corrupt... Do you want to - attempt to continue (DANGEROUS) or - give up?" I don't understand what is wrong. I know that a former student at my University has built up a similar system, instead of a hydronic floor, he used a hot water tank, and he managed to run simulations. He had 4 connections, and not 3 as I have. But I don't understand why one would the fourth connection..? He had the following connections: recieving comp. - sending comp.: Solar collector - Pump (mass frac.: 1, temp: 0) Hot water tank - Solar collector (mass frac.: 1, temp: 0) Pump - Hot water tank (mass frac.: 1, temp: 0) Hot water tank - Pump (mass frac.: 0, temp: 20) He told me that he found a similar connection in one of esp-r exemplar models, therefore he implemented it in his model. But I haven't found it myself. My question is: What kind of connections are needed to run simulations for a system with a solar collector, pump and hydronic floor? I am still a novice using ESP-r, so any replies would be appreciated. Regards, Ida Aur?en -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130408/e95e2a75/attachment.html From sebastien.brideau at gmail.com Mon Apr 8 17:03:19 2013 From: sebastien.brideau at gmail.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?S=E9bastien_Brideau?=) Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2013 12:03:19 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] obstruction blocks (shading) Message-ID: <01de01ce3472$97be99d0$c73bcd70$@gmail.com> Hi all, I have two quick questions: 1. It looks like shading blocks do not reflect any radiation. Is that correct? (I can?t find a place to input optical properties, hence my assumption) 2. I get how shading blocks are projected on external surfaces for beam radiation. How are the sky-diffuse and ground-diffuse components treated? Thanks for any help. S?bastien -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130408/b6d8a65b/attachment.html From achim.geissler at fhnw.ch Tue Apr 9 07:52:01 2013 From: achim.geissler at fhnw.ch (Geissler Achim) Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2013 06:52:01 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: obstruction blocks (shading) In-Reply-To: <01de01ce3472$97be99d0$c73bcd70$@gmail.com> References: <01de01ce3472$97be99d0$c73bcd70$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear S?bastien no, obstruction blocks do not reflect radiation, sadly (they are "perfectly black" for all practical purposes). They can, however, transmit radiation (you can enter a transmissivity). The material you define for an obstruction is used only for visual output via Radiance, though. There is a toggle in the setting up of obstructions which allows for "beam only" or "diffuse shading also" calculations. I would expect that when "diffuse shading also" is chosen, ground diffuse reflectance is taken into account. But I am not sure. Best Achim Von: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] Im Auftrag von S?bastien Brideau Gesendet: Montag, 8. April 2013 18:03 An: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Betreff: [esp-r] obstruction blocks (shading) Hi all, I have two quick questions: 1. It looks like shading blocks do not reflect any radiation. Is that correct? (I can't find a place to input optical properties, hence my assumption) 2. I get how shading blocks are projected on external surfaces for beam radiation. How are the sky-diffuse and ground-diffuse components treated? Thanks for any help. S?bastien -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130409/0626a6b6/attachment.html From achim.geissler at fhnw.ch Tue Apr 9 08:00:54 2013 From: achim.geissler at fhnw.ch (Geissler Achim) Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2013 07:00:54 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: slab-on-grade hydronic floor in a solar heating system In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear Ida a) The "dangerous" warning can be ignored, however, most likely the results file does not have any useful content b) Are there error messages during simulation for your plant net without the fourth connection? Have you tried reducing time step (especially, if there are warning messages in regard to water temperatures)? Could you give *your* net with component types (how many nodes in the tank, for example)? A very small plant network with the components you describe will be very "quick", thermally. Try one minute plant time steps. Also, the coupling with the building via slab on grad hydronic floor may make short building side time steps necessary (try 10 ts/h building and 6 ts/building_ts plant). Best Achim Von: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] Im Auftrag von Ida Aur?en Gesendet: Montag, 8. April 2013 15:56 An: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Betreff: [esp-r] slab-on-grade hydronic floor in a solar heating system Hello. I have a question regarding slab-on-grade hydronic floor under the "plant and systems" menu. I'm trying to create a solar heating system with the following components: 1) "simplified flat plate solar collector", 2) "Variable speed domestic WHC pump" and 3) "slab-on-grade hydronic floor". I have linked all these three components and defined where heat is being injected in the zone. I have also set up the control loop with sensor, actuator and defined period data. But when I want to run a simulation and check the results I just get a message saying "Library is incomplete or corrupt... Do you want to - attempt to continue (DANGEROUS) or - give up?" I don't understand what is wrong. I know that a former student at my University has built up a similar system, instead of a hydronic floor, he used a hot water tank, and he managed to run simulations. He had 4 connections, and not 3 as I have. But I don't understand why one would the fourth connection..? He had the following connections: recieving comp. - sending comp.: Solar collector - Pump (mass frac.: 1, temp: 0) Hot water tank - Solar collector (mass frac.: 1, temp: 0) Pump - Hot water tank (mass frac.: 1, temp: 0) Hot water tank - Pump (mass frac.: 0, temp: 20) He told me that he found a similar connection in one of esp-r exemplar models, therefore he implemented it in his model. But I haven't found it myself. My question is: What kind of connections are needed to run simulations for a system with a solar collector, pump and hydronic floor? I am still a novice using ESP-r, so any replies would be appreciated. Regards, Ida Aur?en -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130409/77f4a02f/attachment-0001.html From ida.auraen at gmail.com Tue Apr 16 11:50:49 2013 From: ida.auraen at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ida_Aur=E5en?=) Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2013 12:50:49 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Ground insulation Message-ID: Hi, Does anyone know if it is possible to implement ground insulation in esp-r? And how this is done? My building is placed in a cold climate in ?stersund, Sweden, and I want to put a layer of insulation on the ground *around *my building. In general it will be snow on the ground during the winter that also will insulate to some extent. Do anyone know if the climate files contain that kind of information? Will this be taken into account in the simulations? Regards Ida Aur?en -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130416/1c4a918f/attachment.html From A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk Tue Apr 16 15:01:50 2013 From: A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk (Arianna Sdei) Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2013 14:01:50 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Ground insulation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C1218E2A3986@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> Hi Ida, the basesimp method includes some insulated slabs and I seem to remember that some of them include perimeter insulation but that needs to be checked as I am not 100 % sure. Otherwise you could add an extra zone on your basement that includes perimeter insulation. I am not entirely sure I understood what you would like to do exactly, feel free to send me a sketch. I hope that helps, cheers Arianna From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Ida Aur?en Sent: 16 April 2013 11:51 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Ground insulation Hi, Does anyone know if it is possible to implement ground insulation in esp-r? And how this is done? My building is placed in a cold climate in ?stersund, Sweden, and I want to put a layer of insulation on the ground around my building. In general it will be snow on the ground during the winter that also will insulate to some extent. Do anyone know if the climate files contain that kind of information? Will this be taken into account in the simulations? Regards Ida Aur?en ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130416/6289e0a7/attachment.html From ida.auraen at gmail.com Thu Apr 18 13:14:21 2013 From: ida.auraen at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ida_Aur=E5en?=) Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2013 14:14:21 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] 3D conduction model - exemplar Message-ID: Hi! Have anyone checked out the 3D conduction model in the exemplar folder in ESP-r? I am not able to do any simulation in the exemplar to see how the ground is affected. There is a warning at the beginning of the simulation saying "Error occured at record number 364 in the control volumes file".. What I am wondering is, how can you do a 3D conduction modelling of the ground, when the zone called ground is a large box with the construction "fictive ground" at all surfaces? Fictive ground consist of the material "common earth" 100 mm. Is it not just a large box with air? I want to create a 3D conduction model myself and simulate a heat storage facility under my model. But I am curious about how the heat transfer works in this "box". Regards Ida Aur?en -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130418/771d7061/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Thu Apr 18 13:55:00 2013 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2013 13:55:00 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: 3D conduction model - exemplar In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA41301C9A7937392@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> A question about ground heat transfer.... The 3D ground conduction model has not been used very often in recent years and with changes in compilers it might need some development work to be useful. And, you might want to get in touch with ESP-r users in Canada who have a good knowledge of the BASESIMP (basement simulation) feature of ESP-r. Regards, Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Ida Aur?en [ida.auraen at gmail.com] Sent: 18 April 2013 13:14 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] 3D conduction model - exemplar Hi! Have anyone checked out the 3D conduction model in the exemplar folder in ESP-r? I am not able to do any simulation in the exemplar to see how the ground is affected. There is a warning at the beginning of the simulation saying "Error occured at record number 364 in the control volumes file".. What I am wondering is, how can you do a 3D conduction modelling of the ground, when the zone called ground is a large box with the construction "fictive ground" at all surfaces? Fictive ground consist of the material "common earth" 100 mm. Is it not just a large box with air? I want to create a 3D conduction model myself and simulate a heat storage facility under my model. But I am curious about how the heat transfer works in this "box". Regards Ida Aur?en From ringo.satyarr at gmail.com Sun Apr 21 02:57:39 2013 From: ringo.satyarr at gmail.com (Satya) Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2013 07:27:39 +0530 Subject: [esp-r] User-defined climate control file Message-ID: Hi, I intend to create an esp-r climate file with accurate values of hourly direct insolation and hourly ambient temperature, but I find only 'sections' of a typical climate file. I want to know what a climate file looks like and how they are created/edited. I am unable to edit the default climate databases with Notepad, Word or Excel. I would greatly appreciate explanatory links/videos. Thanks, Satyajit -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130421/945fd636/attachment.html From achim.geissler at intergga.ch Sun Apr 21 11:04:56 2013 From: achim.geissler at intergga.ch (Achim Geissler) Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2013 12:04:56 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: User-defined climate control file In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear Satyajit have you exported-to-text any given climate file via "clm"? This will give you a good idea of what such a climate file looks like - you can replace the exported data with your own data (note the sequence of columns and formatting of the values) and re-import this. Best Achim On Apr 21, 2013, at 3:57 AM, Satya wrote: > Hi, > > I intend to create an esp-r climate file with accurate values of hourly direct insolation and hourly ambient temperature, but I find only 'sections' of a typical climate file. I want to know what a climate file looks like and how they are created/edited. > > I am unable to edit the default climate databases with Notepad, Word or Excel. I would greatly appreciate explanatory links/videos. > > Thanks, > > Satyajit > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r achim.geissler at intergga.ch From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Sun Apr 21 11:22:48 2013 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2013 11:22:48 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: User-defined weather files Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA41301C9A79373A0@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> Remember that ESP-r model files and text files (like the text export weather file and 'climatelist' file) are simple (ASCII) text files. If you are going to edit them then use a text editor (like notepad++) rather than a word processor. MS Notepad and Word will often mess up simple text files. A new facility is awaiting inclusion in the standard ESP-r that will allow you to import column data from csv (comma separated) files and do a range of unit conversions. -Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Satya [ringo.satyarr at gmail.com] Sent: 21 April 2013 02:57 To: ESP-r Users' Club Subject: [esp-r] User-defined climate control file Hi, I intend to create an esp-r climate file with accurate values of hourly direct insolation and hourly ambient temperature, but I find only 'sections' of a typical climate file. I want to know what a climate file looks like and how they are created/edited. I am unable to edit the default climate databases with Notepad, Word or Excel. I would greatly appreciate explanatory links/videos. Thanks, Satyajit From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Mon Apr 22 10:38:46 2013 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2013 10:38:46 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: User-defined weather files In-Reply-To: References: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA41301C9A79373A0@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk>, Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA41301C9A79373A2@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> Please read the chapter about weather files in the ESRP-r Cookbook. There are two formats of the file, what the simulator reads is a random access binary file and there is an import and export function in the clm module which can convert this to a simple text file (ASCII). Typically the ASCII version has the same file name but with a .a ending. What the image shows - notepad++ being confused by a file type (the random access binary file) that it cannot read. ________________________________________ From: Satya [ringo.satyarr at gmail.com] Sent: 22 April 2013 10:29 To: Jon Hand Cc: ESP-r Users' Club Subject: Re: [esp-r] User-defined weather files Dear Jon, I was unable to open climate files with notepad++. Here's what it looked like: [cid:ii_13e3113048acd09c] On Sun, Apr 21, 2013 at 3:52 PM, Jon Hand > wrote: Remember that ESP-r model files and text files (like the text export weather file and 'climatelist' file) are simple (ASCII) text files. If you are going to edit them then use a text editor (like notepad++) rather than a word processor. MS Notepad and Word will often mess up simple text files. A new facility is awaiting inclusion in the standard ESP-r that will allow you to import column data from csv (comma separated) files and do a range of unit conversions. -Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Satya [ringo.satyarr at gmail.com] Sent: 21 April 2013 02:57 To: ESP-r Users' Club Subject: [esp-r] User-defined climate control file Hi, I intend to create an esp-r climate file with accurate values of hourly direct insolation and hourly ambient temperature, but I find only 'sections' of a typical climate file. I want to know what a climate file looks like and how they are created/edited. I am unable to edit the default climate databases with Notepad, Word or Excel. I would greatly appreciate explanatory links/videos. Thanks, Satyajit From ringo.satyarr at gmail.com Mon Apr 22 10:29:04 2013 From: ringo.satyarr at gmail.com (Satya) Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2013 14:59:04 +0530 Subject: [esp-r] Re: User-defined weather files In-Reply-To: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA41301C9A79373A0@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> References: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA41301C9A79373A0@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> Message-ID: Dear Jon, I was unable to open climate files with notepad++. Here's what it looked like: [image: Inline image 1] On Sun, Apr 21, 2013 at 3:52 PM, Jon Hand wrote: > > Remember that ESP-r model files and text files (like the text export > weather file and 'climatelist' file) > are simple (ASCII) text files. If you are going to edit them then use a > text editor (like notepad++) rather > than a word processor. MS Notepad and Word will often mess up simple text > files. > > A new facility is awaiting inclusion in the standard ESP-r that will allow > you to import > column data from csv (comma separated) files and do a range of unit > conversions. > > -Jon Hand > ________________________________________ > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] > On Behalf Of Satya [ringo.satyarr at gmail.com] > Sent: 21 April 2013 02:57 > To: ESP-r Users' Club > Subject: [esp-r] User-defined climate control file > > Hi, > > I intend to create an esp-r climate file with accurate values of hourly > direct insolation and hourly ambient temperature, but I find only > 'sections' of a typical climate file. I want to know what a climate file > looks like and how they are created/edited. > > I am unable to edit the default climate databases with Notepad, Word or > Excel. I would greatly appreciate explanatory links/videos. > > Thanks, > > Satyajit > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130422/1d4c52be/attachment-0001.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/png Size: 173565 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130422/1d4c52be/attachment-0001.png From cn06arc at leeds.ac.uk Wed May 1 16:30:19 2013 From: cn06arc at leeds.ac.uk (Andrew Cowie) Date: Wed, 1 May 2013 16:30:19 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] 4-way diffuser CFD modelling Message-ID: Hi all, I'm trying to model a 4-way diffuser inlet for CFD analysis. I have tried changing the direction values for the boundary condition in the .dfd file and neither appears to make any difference whatsoever to the flow patterns. The only other alternative i can think of is to use blockages to model the diffuser directly, however this is a rather fiddly and complex solution to what is only a small part of my model; ideally i would like something simpler. So my questions are thus: 1. Do the direction values for the air-flow sources in the .dfd file actually do anything? They cannot be changed via the prj interface and this leads me to believe perhaps they have not been fully implemented yet. (it is worth mentioning that i'm using a version of ESP-r that is a little old, have these been implemented in a recent revision?) 2. If they DO work, what do they each represent? I cannot find any documentation on these values. 3. Assuming the values DO work and i know how to use them correctly, will i be able to adequately model a 4-way diffuser using this method? Or am i barking up the wrong tree entirely? 4. If for any reason this method won't work and i need to model it with blockages, does anyone have any recommendations for doing so as simply as possible? Thanks in anticipation, Andy Cowie From ida.auraen at gmail.com Thu May 2 13:33:02 2013 From: ida.auraen at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ida_Aur=E5en?=) Date: Thu, 2 May 2013 14:33:02 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Hydronic floor - house with underfloor heating Message-ID: Hi, I was wondering if anyone has looked into the exemplar "house with underfloor heating" under the menu "systems + network fluid flow" ? When I try to open it I get a message saying: "The selected exemplar is currently off-line. See your administrator for access." Regards, Ida Aur?en -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130502/e74b5c93/attachment.html From cn06arc at leeds.ac.uk Thu May 2 12:53:05 2013 From: cn06arc at leeds.ac.uk (Andrew Cowie) Date: Thu, 2 May 2013 12:53:05 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Diffuser CFD modelling - update Message-ID: <6F33AAAE-503F-40C3-930D-72A75FE94F65@leeds.ac.uk> Hi all, It has been confirmed that the direction angles in the CFD do not currently work. For a quick-fix a "slab" blockage just in front of the inlet seems to have more or less the desired effect, however I doubt this would stand up to validation at any significant degree of accuracy. When I have time I will be attempting to implement the direction angles properly. Grateful thanks too all who replied, Andy Cowie Sent from mobile From achim.geissler at intergga.ch Mon May 6 19:03:21 2013 From: achim.geissler at intergga.ch (Achim Geissler) Date: Mon, 6 May 2013 20:03:21 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Hydronic floor - house with underfloor heating In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear Ida your question seems to have been ignored so far. Possibly you have solved your problem, but anyway. Which feature are you looking into? Do you have the full source tree downloaded? If you are looking for a model with "hydronic floor" type of plant component, you may want to look at "tester/test_suite/plt_radiant_floor". Or, if you are interested in a floor heating system, you may want to try "training/cellular_flh". Best Achim On May 2, 2013, at 2:33 PM, Ida Aur?en wrote: > Hi, > > I was wondering if anyone has looked into the exemplar "house with underfloor heating" under the menu "systems + network fluid flow" ? > > When I try to open it I get a message saying: "The selected exemplar is currently off-line. See your administrator for access." > > Regards, > Ida Aur?en > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r achim.geissler at intergga.ch From gmolina1 at uc.cl Tue May 7 00:07:15 2013 From: gmolina1 at uc.cl (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Germ=E1n_Molina_Larrain?=) Date: Mon, 6 May 2013 19:07:15 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] Calculation of solar gains through complex shading devices Message-ID: Hello, I am German Molina, and I am doing my MSc. on complex shading systems, and how to treat them for simulation purposes (Lighting and Solar Heat Gains). I do not really use ESPr or any other thermal simulation tools, just Radiance for now. Finished my literature review, I realized that one method used for lighting (the Three-phase method) might be good to be a good estimator of the Solar Heat Gains through complex fenestration systems... later I found out that some people did this, and actually nowadays something very similar can be implemented in EnergyPlus. Long story short, I think (it is waiting for a validation) that I can accurately calculate the Solar Heat Gains through virtually any complex fenestration system of known BSDF matrices; and not only net solar heat gains, but I think I can also say where the solar radiation is going (calculate the fraction that goes to the ceiling, to the floor, etc.). How difficult would it be to use this output as an input for ESPr? For what I understand, ESPr does not handle very well these kind of systems? What I am proposing can be actually reduced to just one phrase: Lets use Radiance to what it does best (radiation transport) and ESPr to what I think it does best (Thermal simulation). THANKS VERY MUCH German Molina -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130506/996cded4/attachment.html From achim.geissler at fhnw.ch Tue May 7 13:27:29 2013 From: achim.geissler at fhnw.ch (Geissler Achim) Date: Tue, 7 May 2013 12:27:29 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Calculation of solar gains through complex shading devices In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear German basically, that is a very interesting idea. However, I would not expect this to be easy and straightforward, as one strength of ESP-r is that it solves all the physics simultaneously. Currently, there are two possible ways to include complex shading: The "CFC" model for multi-layer constructions (to date, this covers venetian type blinds, roller blinds and meshes are "in the works" as far as I am aware) and the input of bi-directional reflection / transmission input data ("BRTD") - here the problem is basically generating the necessary input data, however this may be possible via Window 7 (LBNL), now. ESP-r can basically take the solar distribution on the surfaces of the zone behind the window into account. In the mainstream code, the CFCs lack daylighting, however. I am not sure what the situation in this regard for the "BRTD"-type of models is. As far as I am aware, the three-phase-method and the "coupling" with EnergyPlus requires two runs? Could you describe the necessary workflow / calculation steps? Where / in which program is the setting of a Venetian type blind set, for example? Based on what? Best Achim Von: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] Im Auftrag von Germ?n Molina Larrain Gesendet: Dienstag, 7. Mai 2013 01:07 An: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Betreff: [esp-r] Calculation of solar gains through complex shading devices Hello, I am German Molina, and I am doing my MSc. on complex shading systems, and how to treat them for simulation purposes (Lighting and Solar Heat Gains). I do not really use ESPr or any other thermal simulation tools, just Radiance for now. Finished my literature review, I realized that one method used for lighting (the Three-phase method) might be good to be a good estimator of the Solar Heat Gains through complex fenestration systems... later I found out that some people did this, and actually nowadays something very similar can be implemented in EnergyPlus. Long story short, I think (it is waiting for a validation) that I can accurately calculate the Solar Heat Gains through virtually any complex fenestration system of known BSDF matrices; and not only net solar heat gains, but I think I can also say where the solar radiation is going (calculate the fraction that goes to the ceiling, to the floor, etc.). How difficult would it be to use this output as an input for ESPr? For what I understand, ESPr does not handle very well these kind of systems? What I am proposing can be actually reduced to just one phrase: Lets use Radiance to what it does best (radiation transport) and ESPr to what I think it does best (Thermal simulation). THANKS VERY MUCH German Molina -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130507/7f756ba0/attachment.html From gmolina1 at uc.cl Tue May 7 14:33:29 2013 From: gmolina1 at uc.cl (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Germ=E1n_Molina_Larrain?=) Date: Tue, 7 May 2013 09:33:29 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Calculation of solar gains through complex shading devices In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Achim, my original idea of workflow was thought on the basis of a straightforward finide difference simulation (as I have done in Matlab)... so it would be to make the solar simulations (calculation of solar gains and Daylight), and then, to make the thermal simulation; knowing the flows to each node (calculated before). Now, since you say that ESPr supports BSDF input, maybe the whole thermal simulation should be done in ESPr, leaving Radiance just for lighting. I have been working on the generation of the BSDFs, and I think the problem is practically solved right now, using tools that already exist (I expect I can publish something related to this). How long do those (BSDFed) simulations take? I have heard that in E+ they take considerably more time than the other ones. As far as I am aware, the three-phase-method and the "coupling" with EnergyPlus requires two runs? Could you describe the necessary workflow / calculation steps? Where / in which program is the setting of a Venetian type blind set, for example? Based on what? The direct coupling, I was informed, is complicated. But, just as in ESPr, E+ was provided with the capability of using BSDF information in a very similar way as the Three-phase method does. So everything is actually made on E+. Anyway, I guess the best should be to make the lighting simulation, calculate the electric lighting consumption and transform it into internal gains for a posterior ESPr simulation, considering BSDFs? Please feel free to comment. THANKS VERY MUCH German 2013/5/7 Geissler Achim > Dear German**** > > ** ** > > basically, that is a very interesting idea. However, I would not expect > this to be easy and straightforward, as one strength of ESP-r is that it > solves all the physics simultaneously. Currently, there are two possible > ways to include complex shading: The "CFC" model for multi-layer > constructions (to date, this covers venetian type blinds, roller blinds and > meshes are "in the works" as far as I am aware) and the input of > bi-directional reflection / transmission input data ("BRTD") - here the > problem is basically generating the necessary input data, however this may > be possible via Window 7 (LBNL), now.**** > > ** ** > > ESP-r can basically take the solar distribution on the surfaces of the > zone behind the window into account. In the mainstream code, the CFCs lack > daylighting, however. I am not sure what the situation in this regard for > the "BRTD"-type of models is.**** > > ** ** > > As far as I am aware, the three-phase-method and the "coupling" with > EnergyPlus requires two runs? Could you describe the necessary workflow / > calculation steps? Where / in which program is the setting of a Venetian > type blind set, for example? Based on what?**** > > ** ** > > Best**** > > Achim**** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > *Von:* esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto: > esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] *Im Auftrag von *Germ?n Molina Larrain > *Gesendet:* Dienstag, 7. Mai 2013 01:07 > *An:* esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > *Betreff:* [esp-r] Calculation of solar gains through complex shading > devices**** > > ** ** > > Hello, **** > > ** ** > > I am German Molina, and I am doing my MSc. on complex shading systems, and > how to treat them for simulation purposes (Lighting and Solar Heat Gains). > I do not really use ESPr or any other thermal simulation tools, just > Radiance for now.**** > > ** ** > > Finished my literature review, I realized that one method used for > lighting (the Three-phase method) might be good to be a good estimator of > the Solar Heat Gains through complex fenestration systems... later I found > out that some people did this, and actually nowadays something very similar > can be implemented in EnergyPlus.**** > > ** ** > > Long story short, I think (it is waiting for a validation) that I can > accurately calculate the Solar Heat Gains through virtually any complex > fenestration system of known BSDF matrices; and not only net solar heat > gains, but I think I can also say where the solar radiation is going > (calculate the fraction that goes to the ceiling, to the floor, etc.). How > difficult would it be to use this output as an input for ESPr? For what I > understand, ESPr does not handle very well these kind of systems?**** > > ** ** > > What I am proposing can be actually reduced to just one phrase: Lets use > Radiance to what it does best (radiation transport) and ESPr to what I > think it does best (Thermal simulation).**** > > ** ** > > THANKS VERY MUCH**** > > ** ** > > German Molina**** > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130507/6c306466/attachment-0001.html From gmolina1 at uc.cl Tue May 7 14:51:30 2013 From: gmolina1 at uc.cl (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Germ=E1n_Molina_Larrain?=) Date: Tue, 7 May 2013 09:51:30 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Calculation of solar gains through complex shading devices In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: BSDFs can be generated using WINDOW, and I evaluated using Radiance's genBSDF to generate Solar Bidirectional Information (compared the results with the analytical models done inside WINDOW 6.0 and over). Nowadays, the BSDFs come in a standard (probably still evolving) .xml file, and I thinkg E+ format is very simple (I saw one once, but very quickly). On the other hand, how does ESPr use Radiance or the Lighting calculations? Making an annual simulation may take a really long time. The reason why I chose the Three-phase method is because it allows "easy" control of shading, and a very fast simulation. Also, it allows to change and evaluate different shading systems. So it is very good for optimization. 2013/5/7 Geissler Achim > Hi Germ?n**** > > ** ** > > some comments below, inline.**** > > ** ** > > Best**** > > Achim**** > > ** ** > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > T +41 61 467 44 51 > > achim.geissler at fhnw.ch > www.fhnw.ch/iebau > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > **** > > ** ** > > *Von:* germolinal at gmail.com [mailto:germolinal at gmail.com] *Im Auftrag von > *Germ?n Molina Larrain > *Gesendet:* Dienstag, 7. Mai 2013 15:33 > *An:* Geissler Achim > *Cc:* esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > *Betreff:* Re: [esp-r] Calculation of solar gains through complex shading > devices**** > > ** ** > > Hi Achim, **** > > ** ** > > my original idea of workflow was thought on the basis of a straightforward > finide difference simulation (as I have done in Matlab)... so it would be > to make the solar simulations (calculation of solar gains and Daylight), > and then, to make the thermal simulation; knowing the flows to each node > (calculated before).**** > > ** ** > > Now, since you say that ESPr supports BSDF input, maybe the whole thermal > simulation should be done in ESPr, leaving Radiance just for lighting. I > have been working on the generation of the BSDFs, and I think the problem > is practically solved right now, using tools that already exist (I expect I > can publish something related to this). How long do those (BSDFed) > simulations take? I have heard that in E+ they take considerably more time > than the other ones.**** > > ** ** > > I'm afraid I can't tell you, as I have never personally used that > particular feature of ESP-r. Also, I am not sure if the format is any > "general" BSDF type. How do you generate your BSDFs?**** > > ** ** > > As far as I am aware, the three-phase-method and the "coupling" with > EnergyPlus requires two runs? Could you describe the necessary workflow / > calculation steps? Where / in which program is the setting of a Venetian > type blind set, for example? Based on what?**** > > ** ** > > The direct coupling, I was informed, is complicated. But, just as in ESPr, > E+ was provided with the capability of using BSDF information in a very > similar way as the Three-phase method does. So everything is actually made > on E+.**** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > Anyway, I guess the best should be to make the lighting simulation, > calculate the electric lighting consumption and transform it into internal > gains for a posterior ESPr simulation, considering BSDFs? Please feel free > to comment.**** > > ** ** > > Well, basically ESP-r and Radiance can be used fully coupled. I.e., if you > want to have lighting control, you can couple a Radiance model, let that do > the lighting calculations and give back which percentage of the pre-set set > point are covered by daylight - ESP-r will then add the rest as electric > internal gain based on the defined electric light installation. The gain > due to daylight is taken into account by the solar gain. This can also be > used with the CFCs - there is an experimental feature which generates the > Radiance Model with a Venetian type blind during run-time with the slat > angle as given by solar needs (e.g. "cut off" control). Computing times > are, of course, somewhat longer than usual.**** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > THANKS VERY MUCH**** > > ** ** > > German**** > > ** ** > > 2013/5/7 Geissler Achim **** > > Dear German**** > > **** > > basically, that is a very interesting idea. However, I would not expect > this to be easy and straightforward, as one strength of ESP-r is that it > solves all the physics simultaneously. Currently, there are two possible > ways to include complex shading: The "CFC" model for multi-layer > constructions (to date, this covers venetian type blinds, roller blinds and > meshes are "in the works" as far as I am aware) and the input of > bi-directional reflection / transmission input data ("BRTD") - here the > problem is basically generating the necessary input data, however this may > be possible via Window 7 (LBNL), now.**** > > **** > > ESP-r can basically take the solar distribution on the surfaces of the > zone behind the window into account. In the mainstream code, the CFCs lack > daylighting, however. I am not sure what the situation in this regard for > the "BRTD"-type of models is.**** > > **** > > As far as I am aware, the three-phase-method and the "coupling" with > EnergyPlus requires two runs? Could you describe the necessary workflow / > calculation steps? Where / in which program is the setting of a Venetian > type blind set, for example? Based on what?**** > > **** > > Best**** > > Achim**** > > **** > > **** > > **** > > *Von:* esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto: > esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] *Im Auftrag von *Germ?n Molina Larrain > *Gesendet:* Dienstag, 7. Mai 2013 01:07 > *An:* esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > *Betreff:* [esp-r] Calculation of solar gains through complex shading > devices**** > > **** > > Hello, **** > > **** > > I am German Molina, and I am doing my MSc. on complex shading systems, and > how to treat them for simulation purposes (Lighting and Solar Heat Gains). > I do not really use ESPr or any other thermal simulation tools, just > Radiance for now.**** > > **** > > Finished my literature review, I realized that one method used for > lighting (the Three-phase method) might be good to be a good estimator of > the Solar Heat Gains through complex fenestration systems... later I found > out that some people did this, and actually nowadays something very similar > can be implemented in EnergyPlus.**** > > **** > > Long story short, I think (it is waiting for a validation) that I can > accurately calculate the Solar Heat Gains through virtually any complex > fenestration system of known BSDF matrices; and not only net solar heat > gains, but I think I can also say where the solar radiation is going > (calculate the fraction that goes to the ceiling, to the floor, etc.). How > difficult would it be to use this output as an input for ESPr? For what I > understand, ESPr does not handle very well these kind of systems?**** > > **** > > What I am proposing can be actually reduced to just one phrase: Lets use > Radiance to what it does best (radiation transport) and ESPr to what I > think it does best (Thermal simulation).**** > > **** > > THANKS VERY MUCH**** > > **** > > German Molina**** > > ** ** > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130507/fb681b46/attachment.html From achim.geissler at fhnw.ch Tue May 7 14:44:24 2013 From: achim.geissler at fhnw.ch (Geissler Achim) Date: Tue, 7 May 2013 13:44:24 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Calculation of solar gains through complex shading devices In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Germ?n some comments below, inline. Best Achim --------------------------------------------------------------------- T +41 61 467 44 51 achim.geissler at fhnw.ch www.fhnw.ch/iebau --------------------------------------------------------------------- Von: germolinal at gmail.com [mailto:germolinal at gmail.com] Im Auftrag von Germ?n Molina Larrain Gesendet: Dienstag, 7. Mai 2013 15:33 An: Geissler Achim Cc: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Betreff: Re: [esp-r] Calculation of solar gains through complex shading devices Hi Achim, my original idea of workflow was thought on the basis of a straightforward finide difference simulation (as I have done in Matlab)... so it would be to make the solar simulations (calculation of solar gains and Daylight), and then, to make the thermal simulation; knowing the flows to each node (calculated before). Now, since you say that ESPr supports BSDF input, maybe the whole thermal simulation should be done in ESPr, leaving Radiance just for lighting. I have been working on the generation of the BSDFs, and I think the problem is practically solved right now, using tools that already exist (I expect I can publish something related to this). How long do those (BSDFed) simulations take? I have heard that in E+ they take considerably more time than the other ones. I'm afraid I can't tell you, as I have never personally used that particular feature of ESP-r. Also, I am not sure if the format is any "general" BSDF type. How do you generate your BSDFs? As far as I am aware, the three-phase-method and the "coupling" with EnergyPlus requires two runs? Could you describe the necessary workflow / calculation steps? Where / in which program is the setting of a Venetian type blind set, for example? Based on what? The direct coupling, I was informed, is complicated. But, just as in ESPr, E+ was provided with the capability of using BSDF information in a very similar way as the Three-phase method does. So everything is actually made on E+. Anyway, I guess the best should be to make the lighting simulation, calculate the electric lighting consumption and transform it into internal gains for a posterior ESPr simulation, considering BSDFs? Please feel free to comment. Well, basically ESP-r and Radiance can be used fully coupled. I.e., if you want to have lighting control, you can couple a Radiance model, let that do the lighting calculations and give back which percentage of the pre-set set point are covered by daylight - ESP-r will then add the rest as electric internal gain based on the defined electric light installation. The gain due to daylight is taken into account by the solar gain. This can also be used with the CFCs - there is an experimental feature which generates the Radiance Model with a Venetian type blind during run-time with the slat angle as given by solar needs (e.g. "cut off" control). Computing times are, of course, somewhat longer than usual. THANKS VERY MUCH German 2013/5/7 Geissler Achim > Dear German basically, that is a very interesting idea. However, I would not expect this to be easy and straightforward, as one strength of ESP-r is that it solves all the physics simultaneously. Currently, there are two possible ways to include complex shading: The "CFC" model for multi-layer constructions (to date, this covers venetian type blinds, roller blinds and meshes are "in the works" as far as I am aware) and the input of bi-directional reflection / transmission input data ("BRTD") - here the problem is basically generating the necessary input data, however this may be possible via Window 7 (LBNL), now. ESP-r can basically take the solar distribution on the surfaces of the zone behind the window into account. In the mainstream code, the CFCs lack daylighting, however. I am not sure what the situation in this regard for the "BRTD"-type of models is. As far as I am aware, the three-phase-method and the "coupling" with EnergyPlus requires two runs? Could you describe the necessary workflow / calculation steps? Where / in which program is the setting of a Venetian type blind set, for example? Based on what? Best Achim Von: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] Im Auftrag von Germ?n Molina Larrain Gesendet: Dienstag, 7. Mai 2013 01:07 An: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Betreff: [esp-r] Calculation of solar gains through complex shading devices Hello, I am German Molina, and I am doing my MSc. on complex shading systems, and how to treat them for simulation purposes (Lighting and Solar Heat Gains). I do not really use ESPr or any other thermal simulation tools, just Radiance for now. Finished my literature review, I realized that one method used for lighting (the Three-phase method) might be good to be a good estimator of the Solar Heat Gains through complex fenestration systems... later I found out that some people did this, and actually nowadays something very similar can be implemented in EnergyPlus. Long story short, I think (it is waiting for a validation) that I can accurately calculate the Solar Heat Gains through virtually any complex fenestration system of known BSDF matrices; and not only net solar heat gains, but I think I can also say where the solar radiation is going (calculate the fraction that goes to the ceiling, to the floor, etc.). How difficult would it be to use this output as an input for ESPr? For what I understand, ESPr does not handle very well these kind of systems? What I am proposing can be actually reduced to just one phrase: Lets use Radiance to what it does best (radiation transport) and ESPr to what I think it does best (Thermal simulation). THANKS VERY MUCH German Molina -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130507/5773ecb1/attachment-0001.html From manzan at units.it Tue May 7 15:58:43 2013 From: manzan at units.it (Marco Manzan) Date: Tue, 07 May 2013 16:58:43 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Calculation of solar gains through complex shading devices In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4846873.ztWVvGDemR@udine> hi German I'm following a different approach for solving complex fenestration and daylighting using different softwares, for instance DAYSIM for daylighting calculation and ESP-r for energy solution. Using DAYSIM I obtain a file with the energy consumption for internal luminaries, DAYSIM takes into accont auser behaviour and different kinds of controls on shading devices so also glare problem can be taken into account, then I send the information from DAYSIM, that is shading system schedule and internal loads due to artificial illumination and internal load (function of occupancy) to ESP-r by means of TDF (temporal definition files). The energy computation is performed using the complex fenestration and the control is driven by the TDF file generated using the DAYSIM code. Soon I hope to be able to commit the changes in my branch. For sure the time required for a whole year computation depends on the DAYSIM runtime and can be very time consuming. Marco Manzan In data marted? 7 maggio 2013 15:05:24, esp-r-request at lists.strath.ac.uk ha scritto: > Send esp-r mailing list submissions to > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > esp-r-request at lists.strath.ac.uk > > You can reach the person managing the list at > esp-r-owner at lists.strath.ac.uk > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of esp-r digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Calculation of solar gains through complex shading > devices (Germ?n Molina Larrain) > 2. Re: Calculation of solar gains through complex shading > devices (Geissler Achim) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 7 May 2013 09:51:30 -0400 > From: Germ?n Molina Larrain > Subject: [esp-r] Re: Calculation of solar gains through complex > shading devices > To: Geissler Achim > Cc: "esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk" > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > BSDFs can be generated using WINDOW, and I evaluated using Radiance's > genBSDF to generate Solar Bidirectional Information (compared the results > with the analytical models done inside WINDOW 6.0 and over). Nowadays, the > BSDFs come in a standard (probably still evolving) .xml file, and I thinkg > E+ format is very simple (I saw one once, but very quickly). > > On the other hand, how does ESPr use Radiance or the Lighting calculations? > Making an annual simulation may take a really long time. > > The reason why I chose the Three-phase method is because it allows "easy" > control of shading, and a very fast simulation. Also, it allows to change > and evaluate different shading systems. So it is very good for optimization. > > > 2013/5/7 Geissler Achim > > > Hi Germ?n**** > > > > ** ** > > > > some comments below, inline.**** > > > > ** ** > > > > Best**** > > > > Achim**** > > > > ** ** > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > T +41 61 467 44 51 > > > > achim.geissler at fhnw.ch > > www.fhnw.ch/iebau > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > **** > > > > ** ** > > > > *Von:* germolinal at gmail.com [mailto:germolinal at gmail.com] *Im Auftrag von > > *Germ?n Molina Larrain > > *Gesendet:* Dienstag, 7. Mai 2013 15:33 > > *An:* Geissler Achim > > *Cc:* esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > *Betreff:* Re: [esp-r] Calculation of solar gains through complex shading > > devices**** > > > > ** ** > > > > Hi Achim, **** > > > > ** ** > > > > my original idea of workflow was thought on the basis of a straightforward > > finide difference simulation (as I have done in Matlab)... so it would be > > to make the solar simulations (calculation of solar gains and Daylight), > > and then, to make the thermal simulation; knowing the flows to each node > > (calculated before).**** > > > > ** ** > > > > Now, since you say that ESPr supports BSDF input, maybe the whole thermal > > simulation should be done in ESPr, leaving Radiance just for lighting. I > > have been working on the generation of the BSDFs, and I think the problem > > is practically solved right now, using tools that already exist (I expect > > I > > can publish something related to this). How long do those (BSDFed) > > simulations take? I have heard that in E+ they take considerably more time > > than the other ones.**** > > > > ** ** > > > > I'm afraid I can't tell you, as I have never personally used that > > particular feature of ESP-r. Also, I am not sure if the format is any > > "general" BSDF type. How do you generate your BSDFs?**** > > > > ** ** > > > > As far as I am aware, the three-phase-method and the "coupling" with > > EnergyPlus requires two runs? Could you describe the necessary workflow / > > calculation steps? Where / in which program is the setting of a Venetian > > type blind set, for example? Based on what?**** > > > > ** ** > > > > The direct coupling, I was informed, is complicated. But, just as in ESPr, > > E+ was provided with the capability of using BSDF information in a very > > similar way as the Three-phase method does. So everything is actually made > > on E+.**** > > > > ** ** > > > > ** ** > > > > Anyway, I guess the best should be to make the lighting simulation, > > calculate the electric lighting consumption and transform it into internal > > gains for a posterior ESPr simulation, considering BSDFs? Please feel free > > to comment.**** > > > > ** ** > > > > Well, basically ESP-r and Radiance can be used fully coupled. I.e., if you > > want to have lighting control, you can couple a Radiance model, let that > > do > > the lighting calculations and give back which percentage of the pre-set > > set > > point are covered by daylight - ESP-r will then add the rest as electric > > internal gain based on the defined electric light installation. The gain > > due to daylight is taken into account by the solar gain. This can also be > > used with the CFCs - there is an experimental feature which generates the > > Radiance Model with a Venetian type blind during run-time with the slat > > angle as given by solar needs (e.g. "cut off" control). Computing times > > are, of course, somewhat longer than usual.**** > > > > ** ** > > > > ** ** > > > > THANKS VERY MUCH**** > > > > ** ** > > > > German**** > > > > ** ** > > > > 2013/5/7 Geissler Achim **** > > > > Dear German**** > > > > **** > > > > basically, that is a very interesting idea. However, I would not expect > > this to be easy and straightforward, as one strength of ESP-r is that it > > solves all the physics simultaneously. Currently, there are two possible > > ways to include complex shading: The "CFC" model for multi-layer > > constructions (to date, this covers venetian type blinds, roller blinds > > and > > meshes are "in the works" as far as I am aware) and the input of > > bi-directional reflection / transmission input data ("BRTD") - here the > > problem is basically generating the necessary input data, however this may > > be possible via Window 7 (LBNL), now.**** > > > > **** > > > > ESP-r can basically take the solar distribution on the surfaces of the > > zone behind the window into account. In the mainstream code, the CFCs lack > > daylighting, however. I am not sure what the situation in this regard for > > the "BRTD"-type of models is.**** > > > > **** > > > > As far as I am aware, the three-phase-method and the "coupling" with > > EnergyPlus requires two runs? Could you describe the necessary workflow / > > calculation steps? Where / in which program is the setting of a Venetian > > type blind set, for example? Based on what?**** > > > > **** > > > > Best**** > > > > Achim**** > > > > **** > > > > **** > > > > **** > > > > *Von:* esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto: > > esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] *Im Auftrag von *Germ?n Molina Larrain > > *Gesendet:* Dienstag, 7. Mai 2013 01:07 > > *An:* esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > *Betreff:* [esp-r] Calculation of solar gains through complex shading > > devices**** > > > > **** > > > > Hello, **** > > > > **** > > > > I am German Molina, and I am doing my MSc. on complex shading systems, and > > how to treat them for simulation purposes (Lighting and Solar Heat Gains). > > I do not really use ESPr or any other thermal simulation tools, just > > Radiance for now.**** > > > > **** > > > > Finished my literature review, I realized that one method used for > > lighting (the Three-phase method) might be good to be a good estimator of > > the Solar Heat Gains through complex fenestration systems... later I found > > out that some people did this, and actually nowadays something very > > similar > > can be implemented in EnergyPlus.**** > > > > **** > > > > Long story short, I think (it is waiting for a validation) that I can > > accurately calculate the Solar Heat Gains through virtually any complex > > fenestration system of known BSDF matrices; and not only net solar heat > > gains, but I think I can also say where the solar radiation is going > > (calculate the fraction that goes to the ceiling, to the floor, etc.). How > > difficult would it be to use this output as an input for ESPr? For what I > > understand, ESPr does not handle very well these kind of systems?**** > > > > **** > > > > What I am proposing can be actually reduced to just one phrase: Lets use > > Radiance to what it does best (radiation transport) and ESPr to what I > > think it does best (Thermal simulation).**** > > > > **** > > > > THANKS VERY MUCH**** > > > > **** > > > > German Molina**** > > > > ** ** > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130507/fb681b46/atta > chment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 7 May 2013 13:44:24 +0000 > From: Geissler Achim > Subject: [esp-r] Re: Calculation of solar gains through complex > shading devices > To: Germ?n Molina Larrain > Cc: "esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk" > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Hi Germ?n > > some comments below, inline. > > Best > Achim > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > T +41 61 467 44 51 > > achim.geissler at fhnw.ch > www.fhnw.ch/iebau > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > Von: germolinal at gmail.com [mailto:germolinal at gmail.com] Im Auftrag von > Germ?n Molina Larrain Gesendet: Dienstag, 7. Mai 2013 15:33 > An: Geissler Achim > Cc: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Betreff: Re: [esp-r] Calculation of solar gains through complex shading > devices > > Hi Achim, > > my original idea of workflow was thought on the basis of a straightforward > finide difference simulation (as I have done in Matlab)... so it would be > to make the solar simulations (calculation of solar gains and Daylight), > and then, to make the thermal simulation; knowing the flows to each node > (calculated before). > > Now, since you say that ESPr supports BSDF input, maybe the whole thermal > simulation should be done in ESPr, leaving Radiance just for lighting. I > have been working on the generation of the BSDFs, and I think the problem > is practically solved right now, using tools that already exist (I expect I > can publish something related to this). How long do those (BSDFed) > simulations take? I have heard that in E+ they take considerably more time > than the other ones. > > I'm afraid I can't tell you, as I have never personally used that particular > feature of ESP-r. Also, I am not sure if the format is any "general" BSDF > type. How do you generate your BSDFs? > > As far as I am aware, the three-phase-method and the "coupling" with > EnergyPlus requires two runs? Could you describe the necessary workflow / > calculation steps? Where / in which program is the setting of a Venetian > type blind set, for example? Based on what? > > The direct coupling, I was informed, is complicated. But, just as in ESPr, > E+ was provided with the capability of using BSDF information in a very > similar way as the Three-phase method does. So everything is actually made > on E+. > > > Anyway, I guess the best should be to make the lighting simulation, > calculate the electric lighting consumption and transform it into internal > gains for a posterior ESPr simulation, considering BSDFs? Please feel free > to comment. > > Well, basically ESP-r and Radiance can be used fully coupled. I.e., if you > want to have lighting control, you can couple a Radiance model, let that do > the lighting calculations and give back which percentage of the pre-set set > point are covered by daylight - ESP-r will then add the rest as electric > internal gain based on the defined electric light installation. The gain > due to daylight is taken into account by the solar gain. This can also be > used with the CFCs - there is an experimental feature which generates the > Radiance Model with a Venetian type blind during run-time with the slat > angle as given by solar needs (e.g. "cut off" control). Computing times > are, of course, somewhat longer than usual. > > > THANKS VERY MUCH > > German > > 2013/5/7 Geissler Achim > > Dear German > > basically, that is a very interesting idea. However, I would not expect this > to be easy and straightforward, as one strength of ESP-r is that it solves > all the physics simultaneously. Currently, there are two possible ways to > include complex shading: The "CFC" model for multi-layer constructions (to > date, this covers venetian type blinds, roller blinds and meshes are "in > the works" as far as I am aware) and the input of bi-directional > reflection / transmission input data ("BRTD") - here the problem is > basically generating the necessary input data, however this may be possible > via Window 7 (LBNL), now. > > ESP-r can basically take the solar distribution on the surfaces of the zone > behind the window into account. In the mainstream code, the CFCs lack > daylighting, however. I am not sure what the situation in this regard for > the "BRTD"-type of models is. > > As far as I am aware, the three-phase-method and the "coupling" with > EnergyPlus requires two runs? Could you describe the necessary workflow / > calculation steps? Where / in which program is the setting of a Venetian > type blind set, for example? Based on what? > > Best > Achim > > > > Von: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk > [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk ac.uk>] Im Auftrag von Germ?n Molina Larrain Gesendet: Dienstag, 7. Mai 2013 > 01:07 > An: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Betreff: [esp-r] Calculation of solar gains through complex shading devices > > Hello, > > I am German Molina, and I am doing my MSc. on complex shading systems, and > how to treat them for simulation purposes (Lighting and Solar Heat Gains). > I do not really use ESPr or any other thermal simulation tools, just > Radiance for now. > > Finished my literature review, I realized that one method used for lighting > (the Three-phase method) might be good to be a good estimator of the Solar > Heat Gains through complex fenestration systems... later I found out that > some people did this, and actually nowadays something very similar can be > implemented in EnergyPlus. > > Long story short, I think (it is waiting for a validation) that I can > accurately calculate the Solar Heat Gains through virtually any complex > fenestration system of known BSDF matrices; and not only net solar heat > gains, but I think I can also say where the solar radiation is going > (calculate the fraction that goes to the ceiling, to the floor, etc.). How > difficult would it be to use this output as an input for ESPr? For what I > understand, ESPr does not handle very well these kind of systems? > > What I am proposing can be actually reduced to just one phrase: Lets use > Radiance to what it does best (radiation transport) and ESPr to what I > think it does best (Thermal simulation). > > THANKS VERY MUCH > > German Molina > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130507/5773ecb1/atta > chment.html > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > > End of esp-r Digest, Vol 82, Issue 4 > ************************************ -- _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ |Marco Manzan Email: manzan at units.it | |Tel: (+39) 040 5583506 Fax : (+39) 040 572033 | |Dipartimento di Ingegneria e Architettura | |Universita' degli Studi di Trieste | |piazzale Europa 1, 34127 TRIESTE | |_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _| From cheard at prodigy.net.mx Tue May 7 17:25:20 2013 From: cheard at prodigy.net.mx (Christopher Heard) Date: Tue, 7 May 2013 11:25:20 -0500 Subject: [esp-r] EPW climate/weather files and solar data timing Message-ID: <46BE474393F9436786723BBD1A763A73@cheard> I understand that EnergyPlus (EPW) weather data considers that solar data is that over the past hour whereas ESP-r considers that the data is over the hour ?30 minutes. Is this a correct understanding of the situation. For the sunrise and sunset hours this can lead to odd results. When the weather module imports an EPW file I imagine that it dosen't do the interpolations to correct for the difference in solar timing. Yes I have read http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/2012/002519.html [esp-r] Re: How work with .WEA files in ESP-r? Christopher Heard From paul at esru.strath.ac.uk Wed May 8 09:04:03 2013 From: paul at esru.strath.ac.uk (Paul Strachan) Date: Wed, 08 May 2013 09:04:03 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: EPW climate/weather files and solar data timing In-Reply-To: <46BE474393F9436786723BBD1A763A73@cheard> References: <46BE474393F9436786723BBD1A763A73@cheard> Message-ID: <518A06F3.6000305@esru.strath.ac.uk> Christopher, If you go into the model context menu, you can toggle between hour-centred and half-hour centred. This sets the appropriate period for the solar data. Regards Paul Christopher Heard wrote: > I understand that EnergyPlus (EPW) weather data considers that solar data is > that over the past hour whereas ESP-r considers that the data is over the > hour ?30 minutes. > > Is this a correct understanding of the situation. > > For the sunrise and sunset hours this can lead to odd results. > > When the weather module imports an EPW file I imagine that it dosen't do the > interpolations to correct for the difference in solar timing. > > Yes I have read http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/2012/002519.html > [esp-r] Re: How work with .WEA files in ESP-r? > > Christopher Heard > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > From ringo.satyarr at gmail.com Wed May 8 09:18:35 2013 From: ringo.satyarr at gmail.com (Satya) Date: Wed, 8 May 2013 13:48:35 +0530 Subject: [esp-r] Regarding thermal and optical properties of construction materials Message-ID: Hi 1. Thermal properties: I have a list of building materials used for the building I am trying to model. Unfortunately, none of these materials are listed in the ESP-r library. Where can I find the relevant properties of those materials which ESP-r needs to run a simulation? Here is the list of the materials. _________________________________________ 1 : 1.67 : 2.84 reinforced concrete (C:S:A) 1:4 cement mortar plaster 1:4 cement sand plaster vitrified tiles typical values for fiberglass reinforced plastic typical values for ply typical values for brickbat _________________________________________ 2. Optical properties The library doesn't include layers of paint. I intend to create a new material by assigning the following properties: conductivity: infinite // is this allowed density: 0 // is this allowed specific heat: same as that of underlying plaster But how do I estimate IR emissivity and solar absorptivity? The internal paint is a white and external is grey. Is there an easy way to measure it or are there typical values for paints depending on the colour? Where do I find this data? It also occurred to me that the paint layer, being very thin, could be modelled as a transparent construction because my guess is that it does let light pass through because of how thin it is. However, for this I will need to find 8 optical properties of paint (3 types of transmittances, 4 types of reflectences and colour rendering). I understand that this is more accurate but if anybody tells me that an opaque material type paint won't lead to major inaccuracies, I will gladly work with an opaque paint. Where do I find the detailed optical data of 'white emulsion paint' and 'grey emulsion paint?? Thanks, Satya -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130508/d1f4e94c/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Wed May 8 12:29:19 2013 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Wed, 8 May 2013 12:29:19 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Regarding thermal and optical properties of construction materials In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA41301C9A98210F2@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> The issue of paint mentioned below. There are several examples of applying paint or a coating to materials. - there are several types of concrete which are identical except for the surface properties - white painted and stone colour. Or Steel and Beige painted steel and White painted steel. This approach is based on the assumption that the thin layer only makes a tiny impact on the conductivity density and specific heat of the material. I would advise against treating a paint layer as transparent. Seems overly complex and getting the optical data would be a challenge. Surface solar absorption and emissivity is sometimes based on approximate information in the literature of building simulation. It is possible to measure, few people do this. Regards, Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Satya [ringo.satyarr at gmail.com] Sent: 08 May 2013 09:18 To: ESP-r Users' Club Subject: [esp-r] Regarding thermal and optical properties of construction materials Hi 1. Thermal properties: I have a list of building materials used for the building I am trying to model. Unfortunately, none of these materials are listed in the ESP-r library. Where can I find the relevant properties of those materials which ESP-r needs to run a simulation? Here is the list of the materials. _________________________________________ 1 : 1.67 : 2.84 reinforced concrete (C:S:A) 1:4 cement mortar plaster 1:4 cement sand plaster vitrified tiles typical values for fiberglass reinforced plastic typical values for ply typical values for brickbat _________________________________________ 2. Optical properties The library doesn't include layers of paint. I intend to create a new material by assigning the following properties: conductivity: infinite // is this allowed density: 0 // is this allowed specific heat: same as that of underlying plaster But how do I estimate IR emissivity and solar absorptivity? The internal paint is a white and external is grey. Is there an easy way to measure it or are there typical values for paints depending on the colour? Where do I find this data? It also occurred to me that the paint layer, being very thin, could be modelled as a transparent construction because my guess is that it does let light pass through because of how thin it is. However, for this I will need to find 8 optical properties of paint (3 types of transmittances, 4 types of reflectences and colour rendering). I understand that this is more accurate but if anybody tells me that an opaque material type paint won't lead to major inaccuracies, I will gladly work with an opaque paint. Where do I find the detailed optical data of 'white emulsion paint' and 'grey emulsion paint?? Thanks, Satya From gulgugul at yahoo.com.tr Wed May 8 19:55:19 2013 From: gulgugul at yahoo.com.tr (=?utf-8?B?R8O8bCBuLiBHw7zEn8O8bA==?=) Date: Wed, 8 May 2013 19:55:19 +0100 (BST) Subject: [esp-r] Failed simulation (error:conversion of hvac input: pilot_power value in 0) Message-ID: <1368039319.65193.YahooMailNeo@web172203.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Hi, ? When I am tring to run simulator, I am getting the error below. I checked the geometry of the zones but couldnt find any error. ? Failed in ../zones/antre.geo: conversion of hvac input: pilot_power value in 0. ? Thanks for any help.. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130508/c6f8269d/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Wed May 8 21:20:53 2013 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Wed, 8 May 2013 21:20:53 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Failed simulation (error:conversion of hvac input: pilot_power value in 0) In-Reply-To: <1368039319.65193.YahooMailNeo@web172203.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> References: <1368039319.65193.YahooMailNeo@web172203.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA41301C9A98210F5@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> I did a search in the code and the key phrase pilot_power value was found in: cetc/furnace.F:172: pilot_energy_con = time_step * pilot_power(isys) * (1 - plrf) cetc/hvacinput.F:437:c Read the pilot power pilot_power. This is no zero only for furnaces with cetc/hvacinput.F:441: &'hvac input: pilot_power',IER) cetc/hvacinput.F:442: pilot_power(i) = val esruprj/hvacgui.F:951: CALL EASKR(pilot_power(i),' ','Pilot power (W)',0.1,'F',1000., esruprj/hvacgui.F:1987: & pilot_power(i), iduct_sys_flag(i), esruprj/hvacgui.F:2443: pilot_power(i)=0.0 So the issue is when reading the model hvac file. The mention in the warning about the geometry file name is printing out the wrong file name. Regards, Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of G?l n. G???l [gulgugul at yahoo.com.tr] Sent: 08 May 2013 19:55 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Failed simulation (error:conversion of hvac input: pilot_power value in 0) Hi, When I am tring to run simulator, I am getting the error below. I checked the geometry of the zones but couldnt find any error. Failed in ../zones/antre.geo: conversion of hvac input: pilot_power value in 0. Thanks for any help.. From ringo.satyarr at gmail.com Wed May 8 21:11:16 2013 From: ringo.satyarr at gmail.com (Satya) Date: Thu, 9 May 2013 01:41:16 +0530 Subject: [esp-r] Custom ground profile Message-ID: Hi I am modelling the 11th (top most) floor of a building in order to run a simulation for resultant temperature distribution over 6 days. I do not want to add 10 more floors to the model. What are my options? So far the following has come to my mind: i) use a custom ground profile: i have no idea how to do this, where should i look for information and for samples of such files? ii) create another single large zone consisting of the 10 lower floors because I do not expect the temperature to drop sharply below the 10th floor. Satya -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130509/2d243198/attachment.html From sebastien.brideau at gmail.com Thu May 9 00:49:09 2013 From: sebastien.brideau at gmail.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?S=E9bastien_Brideau?=) Date: Wed, 8 May 2013 19:49:09 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Custom ground profile In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <006601ce4c46$a2e79230$e8b6b690$@gmail.com> Hi Staya, I think that you could maybe use an adiabatic boundary condition at the outside of the floor. You could also use the ?prescribed static? boundary condition or the ?similar to current? boundary condition. I don?t think that the ground profile would make much sense for your application. Maybe other users with much more building simulation knowledge can let us know if I?m wrong on this, but I think that those three boundary conditions would give you a good approximation of what is actually happening. Sebastien From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Satya Sent: May-08-13 4:11 PM To: ESP-r Users' Club Subject: [esp-r] Custom ground profile Hi I am modelling the 11th (top most) floor of a building in order to run a simulation for resultant temperature distribution over 6 days. I do not want to add 10 more floors to the model. What are my options? So far the following has come to my mind: i) use a custom ground profile: i have no idea how to do this, where should i look for information and for samples of such files? ii) create another single large zone consisting of the 10 lower floors because I do not expect the temperature to drop sharply below the 10th floor. Satya -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130508/c6b2a451/attachment.html From ringo.satyarr at gmail.com Thu May 9 00:32:13 2013 From: ringo.satyarr at gmail.com (Satya) Date: Thu, 9 May 2013 05:02:13 +0530 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Regarding thermal and optical properties of construction materials In-Reply-To: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA41301C9A98210F2@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> References: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA41301C9A98210F2@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> Message-ID: Can I run the simulation by assigning IR emissivity and solar absorptivity to materials located deep inside a construction? Like brick? On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 4:59 PM, Jon Hand wrote: > > The issue of paint mentioned below. There are several examples of > applying paint or a coating > to materials. - there are several types of concrete which are identical > except for > the surface properties - white painted and stone colour. Or Steel and > Beige painted steel and White painted steel. > > This approach is based on the assumption that the thin layer only makes a > tiny impact on the conductivity > density and specific heat of the material. > > I would advise against treating a paint layer as transparent. Seems > overly complex and > getting the optical data would be a challenge. > > Surface solar absorption and emissivity is sometimes based on approximate > information in > the literature of building simulation. It is possible to measure, few > people do this. > > Regards, Jon Hand > ________________________________________ > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] > On Behalf Of Satya [ringo.satyarr at gmail.com] > Sent: 08 May 2013 09:18 > To: ESP-r Users' Club > Subject: [esp-r] Regarding thermal and optical properties of construction > materials > > Hi > > 1. Thermal properties: > > I have a list of building materials used for the building I am trying to > model. Unfortunately, none of these materials are listed in the ESP-r > library. Where can I find the relevant properties of those materials which > ESP-r needs to run a simulation? Here is the list of the materials. > > _________________________________________ > > 1 : 1.67 : 2.84 reinforced concrete (C:S:A) > > 1:4 cement mortar plaster > > 1:4 cement sand plaster > > vitrified tiles > > typical values for fiberglass reinforced plastic > > typical values for ply > > typical values for brickbat > > _________________________________________ > > > > 2. Optical properties > > The library doesn't include layers of paint. I intend to create a new > material by assigning the following properties: > > conductivity: infinite // is this allowed > > density: 0 // is this allowed > > specific heat: same as that of underlying plaster > > > > But how do I estimate IR emissivity and solar absorptivity? The internal > paint is a white and external is grey. Is there an easy way to measure it > or are there typical values for paints depending on the colour? Where do I > find this data? > > It also occurred to me that the paint layer, being very thin, could be > modelled as a transparent construction because my guess is that it does let > light pass through because of how thin it is. However, for this I will need > to find 8 optical properties of paint (3 types of transmittances, 4 types > of reflectences and colour rendering). > > I understand that this is more accurate but if anybody tells me that an > opaque material type paint won't lead to major inaccuracies, I will gladly > work with an opaque paint. > > Where do I find the detailed optical data of 'white emulsion paint' and > 'grey emulsion paint?? > > Thanks, > > Satya > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130509/4680800c/attachment-0001.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Thu May 9 09:58:20 2013 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Thu, 9 May 2013 09:58:20 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Custom ground profile In-Reply-To: <006601ce4c46$a2e79230$e8b6b690$@gmail.com> References: , <006601ce4c46$a2e79230$e8b6b690$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA41301C9A98210F6@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> If what you are trying to do is model a middle floor of an office building and want to setup boundary conditions for the spaces above / below then you have several choices. Setup a simple bounding zones and control them appropriately (see the exemplar in technical features -> bounding zones above/below Set the floor to a 'similar' boundary condition (if the office is warm the 'other side' is assumed to be warm. Do the same for the ceiling. If there is a dropped ceiling then consider whether the conditions within the ceiling void are different from the office space below it - if so then model that as a separate zone. If there is a raised floor and the condition in the raised floor is different from the office then model that as a separate zone. -Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of S?bastien Brideau [sebastien.brideau at gmail.com] Sent: 09 May 2013 00:49 To: 'Satya'; 'ESP-r Users' Club' Subject: [esp-r] Re: Custom ground profile Hi Staya, I think that you could maybe use an adiabatic boundary condition at the outside of the floor. You could also use the ?prescribed static? boundary condition or the ?similar to current? boundary condition. I don?t think that the ground profile would make much sense for your application. Maybe other users with much more building simulation knowledge can let us know if I?m wrong on this, but I think that those three boundary conditions would give you a good approximation of what is actually happening. Sebastien From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Satya Sent: May-08-13 4:11 PM To: ESP-r Users' Club Subject: [esp-r] Custom ground profile Hi I am modelling the 11th (top most) floor of a building in order to run a simulation for resultant temperature distribution over 6 days. I do not want to add 10 more floors to the model. What are my options? So far the following has come to my mind: i) use a custom ground profile: i have no idea how to do this, where should i look for information and for samples of such files? ii) create another single large zone consisting of the 10 lower floors because I do not expect the temperature to drop sharply below the 10th floor. Satya From achim.geissler at intergga.ch Thu May 9 10:38:57 2013 From: achim.geissler at intergga.ch (Achim Geissler) Date: Thu, 9 May 2013 11:38:57 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Regarding thermal and optical properties of construction materials In-Reply-To: References: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA41301C9A98210F2@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> Message-ID: <45232FB8-E34C-4503-87B1-D484D873FCC2@intergga.ch> Hi Satya each material has an assigned reflectivity and IR emissivity. For a multi-layered construction, however, only the outermost values (inside and outside faces of the construction) are relevant for the simulation. Best Achim On May 9, 2013, at 1:32 AM, Satya wrote: > Can I run the simulation by assigning IR emissivity and solar absorptivity to materials located deep inside a construction? Like brick? > > > On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 4:59 PM, Jon Hand wrote: > > The issue of paint mentioned below. There are several examples of applying paint or a coating > to materials. - there are several types of concrete which are identical except for > the surface properties - white painted and stone colour. Or Steel and Beige painted steel and White painted steel. > > This approach is based on the assumption that the thin layer only makes a tiny impact on the conductivity > density and specific heat of the material. > > I would advise against treating a paint layer as transparent. Seems overly complex and > getting the optical data would be a challenge. > > Surface solar absorption and emissivity is sometimes based on approximate information in > the literature of building simulation. It is possible to measure, few people do this. > > Regards, Jon Hand > ________________________________________ > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Satya [ringo.satyarr at gmail.com] > Sent: 08 May 2013 09:18 > To: ESP-r Users' Club > Subject: [esp-r] Regarding thermal and optical properties of construction materials > > Hi > > 1. Thermal properties: > > I have a list of building materials used for the building I am trying to model. Unfortunately, none of these materials are listed in the ESP-r library. Where can I find the relevant properties of those materials which ESP-r needs to run a simulation? Here is the list of the materials. > > _________________________________________ > > 1 : 1.67 : 2.84 reinforced concrete (C:S:A) > > 1:4 cement mortar plaster > > 1:4 cement sand plaster > > vitrified tiles > > typical values for fiberglass reinforced plastic > > typical values for ply > > typical values for brickbat > > _________________________________________ > > > > 2. Optical properties > > The library doesn't include layers of paint. I intend to create a new material by assigning the following properties: > > conductivity: infinite // is this allowed > > density: 0 // is this allowed > > specific heat: same as that of underlying plaster > > > > But how do I estimate IR emissivity and solar absorptivity? The internal paint is a white and external is grey. Is there an easy way to measure it or are there typical values for paints depending on the colour? Where do I find this data? > > It also occurred to me that the paint layer, being very thin, could be modelled as a transparent construction because my guess is that it does let light pass through because of how thin it is. However, for this I will need to find 8 optical properties of paint (3 types of transmittances, 4 types of reflectences and colour rendering). > > I understand that this is more accurate but if anybody tells me that an opaque material type paint won't lead to major inaccuracies, I will gladly work with an opaque paint. > > Where do I find the detailed optical data of 'white emulsion paint' and 'grey emulsion paint?? > > Thanks, > > Satya > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r achim.geissler at intergga.ch -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130509/72cf2730/attachment.html From gulgugul at yahoo.com.tr Thu May 9 17:01:25 2013 From: gulgugul at yahoo.com.tr (=?utf-8?B?R8O8bCBuLiBHw7zEn8O8bA==?=) Date: Thu, 9 May 2013 17:01:25 +0100 (BST) Subject: [esp-r] Yan: Re: Failed simulation (error:conversion of hvac input: pilot_power value in 0) References: <1368039319.65193.YahooMailNeo@web172203.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA41301C9A98210F5@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> Message-ID: <1368115285.48565.YahooMailNeo@web172206.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Hi, ? When I am entering the values of (select frantions supplied to)?fractions, althought the sum is 1 it is not accepting this. when I check my HVAC file, I saw that esp-r is changing my file by itself. For examplei I selected fracton of a zone as "0.4", but in HVAC file its writing "0.4000001". ? I have attached my file. ? Thank you ? Kimden: Jon Hand Kime: G?l n. G???l ; "esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk" G?nderildi?i Tarih: 8 May?s 2013 17:20 ?ar?amba Konu: [esp-r] Re: Failed simulation (error:conversion of hvac input: pilot_power value in 0) I did a search in the code and the key phrase pilot_power value was found in: cetc/furnace.F:172:? ? ? ? pilot_energy_con = time_step * pilot_power(isys) * (1 - plrf) cetc/hvacinput.F:437:c Read the pilot power pilot_power. This is no zero only for furnaces with cetc/hvacinput.F:441:? ? &'hvac input: pilot_power',IER) cetc/hvacinput.F:442:? ? ? pilot_power(i) = val esruprj/hvacgui.F:951:? ? ? ? CALL EASKR(pilot_power(i),' ','Pilot power (W)',0.1,'F',1000., esruprj/hvacgui.F:1987:? ? &? pilot_power(i), iduct_sys_flag(i), esruprj/hvacgui.F:2443:? ? ? ? pilot_power(i)=0.0 So the issue is when reading the model hvac file.? The mention in the warning about the geometry file name is printing out the wrong file name. Regards, Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of G?l n. G???l [gulgugul at yahoo.com.tr] Sent: 08 May 2013 19:55 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Failed simulation (error:conversion of hvac input:? ? pilot_power value in 0) Hi, When I am tring to run simulator, I am getting the error below. I checked the geometry of the zones but couldnt find any error. Failed in ../zones/antre.geo: conversion of hvac input: pilot_power value in 0. Thanks for any help.. _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130509/75693793/attachment-0001.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: atalay.hvac Type: application/octet-stream Size: 564 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130509/75693793/attachment-0001.obj From ringo.satyarr at gmail.com Thu May 9 18:54:18 2013 From: ringo.satyarr at gmail.com (Satya) Date: Thu, 9 May 2013 23:24:18 +0530 Subject: [esp-r] Errors: 'matching contig' & 'not defined' Message-ID: Hi, When I open my model in ESP-r I get an error message saying 'Model topology (surface connections) is inconsistent.' The error details are at the end of this e-mail. When I open Topology I get: Topology list dangerously inconsistent. Suggest you clear the current topology! I think this is because I have not yet attributed any boundary conditions but I want to make sure that this is not due to any errors in 'Geometry & attribution'. My plan is to first enter all the geometric data along with construction attributes and define the boundary conditions for all surfaces of all zones right at the end. This, however, I can only do if I am sure that the errors result from the absent boundary conditions. How should I proceed? __________________________________________________ Details for ''Model topology (surface connections) is inconsistent.' Using installed version of esprc file. The current file is:UNKNOWN Con Origin surface Other side Current surface does not match contig. 9 L1 in living not yet defined Current surface does not match contig. 10 L2 in living not yet defined Current surface does not match contig. 11 L3 in living not yet defined Current zone does not match contig. 12 L4 in living not yet defined Current surface does not match contig. 12 L4 in living not yet defined Current zone does not match contig. 13 L5 in living not yet defined Current surface does not match contig. 13 L5 in living not yet defined Current zone does not match contig. 14 R1 in living not yet defined Current surface does not match contig. 14 R1 in living not yet defined Current zone does not match contig. 15 F1 in living not yet defined Current surface does not match contig. 15 F1 in living not yet defined Current zone does not match contig. 16 balcony_dr in living not yet defined Current surface does not match contig. 16 balcony_dr in living not yet defined Current zone does not match contig. 17 bal_win in living not yet defined Current surface does not match contig. 17 bal_win in living not yet defined Current zone does not match contig. 18 liv_pass in living not yet defined Current surface does not match contig. 18 liv_pass in living not yet defined Current zone does not match contig. 19 main_door in living not yet defined Current surface does not match contig. 19 main_door in living not yet defined Current surface does not match contig. 20 K2 in kitchen not yet defined Current surface does not match contig. 21 K3 in kitchen not yet defined One side is not linked... 4 in living >|< L4 in kitchen 27 L4 in kitchen is External 22 inconsistencies found! Optics UNKNOWN in geo file does not match optics of the MLC qip_pass OPAQUE Optic mismatch corrected in memory. Save geometry to record. __________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130509/4be643fc/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Thu May 9 19:28:50 2013 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Thu, 9 May 2013 19:28:50 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Errors: 'matching contig' & 'not defined' In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA41301C9A98210FB@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> This is not an issue with not-yet-defining boundary conditions. What is signals is that the information in the zone geometry files does not match the master list of surfaces in the model *.cnn file. The interface suggests that you clear the current topology - please do this ASAP. A corrupt model will not get any better if you continue to add to it. -Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Satya [ringo.satyarr at gmail.com] Sent: 09 May 2013 18:54 To: ESP-r Users' Club Subject: [esp-r] Errors: 'matching contig' & 'not defined' Hi, When I open my model in ESP-r I get an error message saying 'Model topology (surface connections) is inconsistent.' The error details are at the end of this e-mail. When I open Topology I get: Topology list dangerously inconsistent. Suggest you clear the current topology! I think this is because I have not yet attributed any boundary conditions but I want to make sure that this is not due to any errors in 'Geometry & attribution'. My plan is to first enter all the geometric data along with construction attributes and define the boundary conditions for all surfaces of all zones right at the end. This, however, I can only do if I am sure that the errors result from the absent boundary conditions. How should I proceed? __________________________________________________ Details for ''Model topology (surface connections) is inconsistent.' Using installed version of esprc file. The current file is:UNKNOWN Con Origin surface Other side Current surface does not match contig. 9 L1 in living not yet defined Current surface does not match contig. 10 L2 in living not yet defined Current surface does not match contig. 11 L3 in living not yet defined Current zone does not match contig. 12 L4 in living not yet defined Current surface does not match contig. 12 L4 in living not yet defined Current zone does not match contig. 13 L5 in living not yet defined Current surface does not match contig. 13 L5 in living not yet defined Current zone does not match contig. 14 R1 in living not yet defined Current surface does not match contig. 14 R1 in living not yet defined Current zone does not match contig. 15 F1 in living not yet defined Current surface does not match contig. 15 F1 in living not yet defined Current zone does not match contig. 16 balcony_dr in living not yet defined Current surface does not match contig. 16 balcony_dr in living not yet defined Current zone does not match contig. 17 bal_win in living not yet defined Current surface does not match contig. 17 bal_win in living not yet defined Current zone does not match contig. 18 liv_pass in living not yet defined Current surface does not match contig. 18 liv_pass in living not yet defined Current zone does not match contig. 19 main_door in living not yet defined Current surface does not match contig. 19 main_door in living not yet defined Current surface does not match contig. 20 K2 in kitchen not yet defined Current surface does not match contig. 21 K3 in kitchen not yet defined One side is not linked... 4 in living >|< L4 in kitchen 27 L4 in kitchen is External 22 inconsistencies found! Optics UNKNOWN in geo file does not match optics of the MLC qip_pass OPAQUE Optic mismatch corrected in memory. Save geometry to record. __________________________________________________ From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Thu May 9 19:34:04 2013 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Thu, 9 May 2013 19:34:04 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Errors: 'matching contig' & 'not defined' In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA41301C9A98210FC@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> Another thing that I noticed - check that surface names are unique in each zone (no duplicate surface names with a zone). It is ok to have a 'floor' in zone_a and a 'floor' in zone_b but not to have two surfaces named 'floor' in zone_a. Regards, Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Satya [ringo.satyarr at gmail.com] Sent: 09 May 2013 18:54 To: ESP-r Users' Club Subject: [esp-r] Errors: 'matching contig' & 'not defined' Hi, When I open my model in ESP-r I get an error message saying 'Model topology (surface connections) is inconsistent.' The error details are at the end of this e-mail. When I open Topology I get: Topology list dangerously inconsistent. Suggest you clear the current topology! I think this is because I have not yet attributed any boundary conditions but I want to make sure that this is not due to any errors in 'Geometry & attribution'. My plan is to first enter all the geometric data along with construction attributes and define the boundary conditions for all surfaces of all zones right at the end. This, however, I can only do if I am sure that the errors result from the absent boundary conditions. How should I proceed? __________________________________________________ Details for ''Model topology (surface connections) is inconsistent.' Using installed version of esprc file. The current file is:UNKNOWN Con Origin surface Other side Current surface does not match contig. 9 L1 in living not yet defined Current surface does not match contig. 10 L2 in living not yet defined Current surface does not match contig. 11 L3 in living not yet defined Current zone does not match contig. 12 L4 in living not yet defined Current surface does not match contig. 12 L4 in living not yet defined Current zone does not match contig. 13 L5 in living not yet defined Current surface does not match contig. 13 L5 in living not yet defined Current zone does not match contig. 14 R1 in living not yet defined Current surface does not match contig. 14 R1 in living not yet defined Current zone does not match contig. 15 F1 in living not yet defined Current surface does not match contig. 15 F1 in living not yet defined Current zone does not match contig. 16 balcony_dr in living not yet defined Current surface does not match contig. 16 balcony_dr in living not yet defined Current zone does not match contig. 17 bal_win in living not yet defined Current surface does not match contig. 17 bal_win in living not yet defined Current zone does not match contig. 18 liv_pass in living not yet defined Current surface does not match contig. 18 liv_pass in living not yet defined Current zone does not match contig. 19 main_door in living not yet defined Current surface does not match contig. 19 main_door in living not yet defined Current surface does not match contig. 20 K2 in kitchen not yet defined Current surface does not match contig. 21 K3 in kitchen not yet defined One side is not linked... 4 in living >|< L4 in kitchen 27 L4 in kitchen is External 22 inconsistencies found! Optics UNKNOWN in geo file does not match optics of the MLC qip_pass OPAQUE Optic mismatch corrected in memory. Save geometry to record. __________________________________________________ From gmolina1 at uc.cl Thu May 9 22:19:52 2013 From: gmolina1 at uc.cl (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Germ=E1n_Molina_Larrain?=) Date: Thu, 9 May 2013 17:19:52 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Calculation of solar gains through complex shading devices In-Reply-To: <4846873.ztWVvGDemR@udine> References: <4846873.ztWVvGDemR@udine> Message-ID: I am new at ESPr... how do the TDFs (temporal definition files) work? What is the format? I am interested in generating them and I could not find anything about them on the internet. THANKS VERY MUCH German 2013/5/7 Marco Manzan > hi German > > I'm following a different approach for solving complex fenestration and > daylighting using different softwares, for instance DAYSIM for daylighting > calculation and ESP-r for energy solution. > Using DAYSIM I obtain a file with the energy consumption for internal > luminaries, DAYSIM takes into accont auser behaviour and different kinds of > controls on shading devices so also glare problem can be taken into > account, > then I send the information from DAYSIM, that is shading system schedule > and > internal loads due to artificial illumination and internal load (function > of > occupancy) to ESP-r by means of TDF (temporal definition files). The energy > computation is performed using the complex fenestration and the control is > driven by the TDF file generated using the DAYSIM code. Soon I hope to be > able > to commit the changes in my branch. For sure the time required for a whole > year computation depends on the DAYSIM runtime and can be very time > consuming. > > Marco Manzan > > In data marted? 7 maggio 2013 15:05:24, esp-r-request at lists.strath.ac.ukha > scritto: > > Send esp-r mailing list submissions to > > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > > esp-r-request at lists.strath.ac.uk > > > > You can reach the person managing the list at > > esp-r-owner at lists.strath.ac.uk > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > > than "Re: Contents of esp-r digest..." > > > > > > Today's Topics: > > > > 1. Re: Calculation of solar gains through complex shading > > devices (Germ?n Molina Larrain) > > 2. Re: Calculation of solar gains through complex shading > > devices (Geissler Achim) > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Message: 1 > > Date: Tue, 7 May 2013 09:51:30 -0400 > > From: Germ?n Molina Larrain > > Subject: [esp-r] Re: Calculation of solar gains through complex > > shading devices > > To: Geissler Achim > > Cc: "esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk" > > Message-ID: > > E42FohtcnJxGHoBhmeHV2E6ThiMEQ at mail.gmail.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > > BSDFs can be generated using WINDOW, and I evaluated using Radiance's > > genBSDF to generate Solar Bidirectional Information (compared the results > > with the analytical models done inside WINDOW 6.0 and over). Nowadays, > the > > BSDFs come in a standard (probably still evolving) .xml file, and I > thinkg > > E+ format is very simple (I saw one once, but very quickly). > > > > On the other hand, how does ESPr use Radiance or the Lighting > calculations? > > Making an annual simulation may take a really long time. > > > > The reason why I chose the Three-phase method is because it allows "easy" > > control of shading, and a very fast simulation. Also, it allows to change > > and evaluate different shading systems. So it is very good for > optimization. > > > > > > 2013/5/7 Geissler Achim > > > > > Hi Germ?n**** > > > > > > ** ** > > > > > > some comments below, inline.**** > > > > > > ** ** > > > > > > Best**** > > > > > > Achim**** > > > > > > ** ** > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > T +41 61 467 44 51 > > > > > > achim.geissler at fhnw.ch > > > www.fhnw.ch/iebau > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > **** > > > > > > ** ** > > > > > > *Von:* germolinal at gmail.com [mailto:germolinal at gmail.com] *Im Auftrag > von > > > *Germ?n Molina Larrain > > > *Gesendet:* Dienstag, 7. Mai 2013 15:33 > > > *An:* Geissler Achim > > > *Cc:* esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > > *Betreff:* Re: [esp-r] Calculation of solar gains through complex > shading > > > devices**** > > > > > > ** ** > > > > > > Hi Achim, **** > > > > > > ** ** > > > > > > my original idea of workflow was thought on the basis of a > straightforward > > > finide difference simulation (as I have done in Matlab)... so it would > be > > > to make the solar simulations (calculation of solar gains and > Daylight), > > > and then, to make the thermal simulation; knowing the flows to each > node > > > (calculated before).**** > > > > > > ** ** > > > > > > Now, since you say that ESPr supports BSDF input, maybe the whole > thermal > > > simulation should be done in ESPr, leaving Radiance just for lighting. > I > > > have been working on the generation of the BSDFs, and I think the > problem > > > is practically solved right now, using tools that already exist (I > expect > > > I > > > can publish something related to this). How long do those (BSDFed) > > > simulations take? I have heard that in E+ they take considerably more > time > > > than the other ones.**** > > > > > > ** ** > > > > > > I'm afraid I can't tell you, as I have never personally used that > > > particular feature of ESP-r. Also, I am not sure if the format is any > > > "general" BSDF type. How do you generate your BSDFs?**** > > > > > > ** ** > > > > > > As far as I am aware, the three-phase-method and the "coupling" with > > > EnergyPlus requires two runs? Could you describe the necessary > workflow / > > > calculation steps? Where / in which program is the setting of a > Venetian > > > type blind set, for example? Based on what?**** > > > > > > ** ** > > > > > > The direct coupling, I was informed, is complicated. But, just as in > ESPr, > > > E+ was provided with the capability of using BSDF information in a very > > > similar way as the Three-phase method does. So everything is actually > made > > > on E+.**** > > > > > > ** ** > > > > > > ** ** > > > > > > Anyway, I guess the best should be to make the lighting simulation, > > > calculate the electric lighting consumption and transform it into > internal > > > gains for a posterior ESPr simulation, considering BSDFs? Please feel > free > > > to comment.**** > > > > > > ** ** > > > > > > Well, basically ESP-r and Radiance can be used fully coupled. I.e., if > you > > > want to have lighting control, you can couple a Radiance model, let > that > > > do > > > the lighting calculations and give back which percentage of the pre-set > > > set > > > point are covered by daylight - ESP-r will then add the rest as > electric > > > internal gain based on the defined electric light installation. The > gain > > > due to daylight is taken into account by the solar gain. This can also > be > > > used with the CFCs - there is an experimental feature which generates > the > > > Radiance Model with a Venetian type blind during run-time with the slat > > > angle as given by solar needs (e.g. "cut off" control). Computing times > > > are, of course, somewhat longer than usual.**** > > > > > > ** ** > > > > > > ** ** > > > > > > THANKS VERY MUCH**** > > > > > > ** ** > > > > > > German**** > > > > > > ** ** > > > > > > 2013/5/7 Geissler Achim **** > > > > > > Dear German**** > > > > > > **** > > > > > > basically, that is a very interesting idea. However, I would not expect > > > this to be easy and straightforward, as one strength of ESP-r is that > it > > > solves all the physics simultaneously. Currently, there are two > possible > > > ways to include complex shading: The "CFC" model for multi-layer > > > constructions (to date, this covers venetian type blinds, roller blinds > > > and > > > meshes are "in the works" as far as I am aware) and the input of > > > bi-directional reflection / transmission input data ("BRTD") - here the > > > problem is basically generating the necessary input data, however this > may > > > be possible via Window 7 (LBNL), now.**** > > > > > > **** > > > > > > ESP-r can basically take the solar distribution on the surfaces of the > > > zone behind the window into account. In the mainstream code, the CFCs > lack > > > daylighting, however. I am not sure what the situation in this regard > for > > > the "BRTD"-type of models is.**** > > > > > > **** > > > > > > As far as I am aware, the three-phase-method and the "coupling" with > > > EnergyPlus requires two runs? Could you describe the necessary > workflow / > > > calculation steps? Where / in which program is the setting of a > Venetian > > > type blind set, for example? Based on what?**** > > > > > > **** > > > > > > Best**** > > > > > > Achim**** > > > > > > **** > > > > > > **** > > > > > > **** > > > > > > *Von:* esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto: > > > esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] *Im Auftrag von *Germ?n Molina > Larrain > > > *Gesendet:* Dienstag, 7. Mai 2013 01:07 > > > *An:* esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > > *Betreff:* [esp-r] Calculation of solar gains through complex shading > > > devices**** > > > > > > **** > > > > > > Hello, **** > > > > > > **** > > > > > > I am German Molina, and I am doing my MSc. on complex shading systems, > and > > > how to treat them for simulation purposes (Lighting and Solar Heat > Gains). > > > I do not really use ESPr or any other thermal simulation tools, just > > > Radiance for now.**** > > > > > > **** > > > > > > Finished my literature review, I realized that one method used for > > > lighting (the Three-phase method) might be good to be a good estimator > of > > > the Solar Heat Gains through complex fenestration systems... later I > found > > > out that some people did this, and actually nowadays something very > > > similar > > > can be implemented in EnergyPlus.**** > > > > > > **** > > > > > > Long story short, I think (it is waiting for a validation) that I can > > > accurately calculate the Solar Heat Gains through virtually any complex > > > fenestration system of known BSDF matrices; and not only net solar heat > > > gains, but I think I can also say where the solar radiation is going > > > (calculate the fraction that goes to the ceiling, to the floor, etc.). > How > > > difficult would it be to use this output as an input for ESPr? For > what I > > > understand, ESPr does not handle very well these kind of systems?**** > > > > > > **** > > > > > > What I am proposing can be actually reduced to just one phrase: Lets > use > > > Radiance to what it does best (radiation transport) and ESPr to what I > > > think it does best (Thermal simulation).**** > > > > > > **** > > > > > > THANKS VERY MUCH**** > > > > > > **** > > > > > > German Molina**** > > > > > > ** ** > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: > > > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130507/fb681b46/atta > > chment-0001.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 2 > > Date: Tue, 7 May 2013 13:44:24 +0000 > > From: Geissler Achim > > Subject: [esp-r] Re: Calculation of solar gains through complex > > shading devices > > To: Germ?n Molina Larrain > > Cc: "esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk" > > Message-ID: > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > > Hi Germ?n > > > > some comments below, inline. > > > > Best > > Achim > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > T +41 61 467 44 51 > > > > achim.geissler at fhnw.ch > > www.fhnw.ch/iebau > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > Von: germolinal at gmail.com [mailto:germolinal at gmail.com] Im Auftrag von > > Germ?n Molina Larrain Gesendet: Dienstag, 7. Mai 2013 15:33 > > An: Geissler Achim > > Cc: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > Betreff: Re: [esp-r] Calculation of solar gains through complex shading > > devices > > > > Hi Achim, > > > > my original idea of workflow was thought on the basis of a > straightforward > > finide difference simulation (as I have done in Matlab)... so it would be > > to make the solar simulations (calculation of solar gains and Daylight), > > and then, to make the thermal simulation; knowing the flows to each node > > (calculated before). > > > > Now, since you say that ESPr supports BSDF input, maybe the whole thermal > > simulation should be done in ESPr, leaving Radiance just for lighting. I > > have been working on the generation of the BSDFs, and I think the problem > > is practically solved right now, using tools that already exist (I > expect I > > can publish something related to this). How long do those (BSDFed) > > simulations take? I have heard that in E+ they take considerably more > time > > than the other ones. > > > > I'm afraid I can't tell you, as I have never personally used that > particular > > feature of ESP-r. Also, I am not sure if the format is any "general" BSDF > > type. How do you generate your BSDFs? > > > > As far as I am aware, the three-phase-method and the "coupling" with > > EnergyPlus requires two runs? Could you describe the necessary workflow / > > calculation steps? Where / in which program is the setting of a Venetian > > type blind set, for example? Based on what? > > > > The direct coupling, I was informed, is complicated. But, just as in > ESPr, > > E+ was provided with the capability of using BSDF information in a very > > similar way as the Three-phase method does. So everything is actually > made > > on E+. > > > > > > Anyway, I guess the best should be to make the lighting simulation, > > calculate the electric lighting consumption and transform it into > internal > > gains for a posterior ESPr simulation, considering BSDFs? Please feel > free > > to comment. > > > > Well, basically ESP-r and Radiance can be used fully coupled. I.e., if > you > > want to have lighting control, you can couple a Radiance model, let that > do > > the lighting calculations and give back which percentage of the pre-set > set > > point are covered by daylight - ESP-r will then add the rest as electric > > internal gain based on the defined electric light installation. The gain > > due to daylight is taken into account by the solar gain. This can also be > > used with the CFCs - there is an experimental feature which generates the > > Radiance Model with a Venetian type blind during run-time with the slat > > angle as given by solar needs (e.g. "cut off" control). Computing times > > are, of course, somewhat longer than usual. > > > > > > THANKS VERY MUCH > > > > German > > > > 2013/5/7 Geissler Achim > > > Dear German > > > > basically, that is a very interesting idea. However, I would not expect > this > > to be easy and straightforward, as one strength of ESP-r is that it > solves > > all the physics simultaneously. Currently, there are two possible ways to > > include complex shading: The "CFC" model for multi-layer constructions > (to > > date, this covers venetian type blinds, roller blinds and meshes are "in > > the works" as far as I am aware) and the input of bi-directional > > reflection / transmission input data ("BRTD") - here the problem is > > basically generating the necessary input data, however this may be > possible > > via Window 7 (LBNL), now. > > > > ESP-r can basically take the solar distribution on the surfaces of the > zone > > behind the window into account. In the mainstream code, the CFCs lack > > daylighting, however. I am not sure what the situation in this regard for > > the "BRTD"-type of models is. > > > > As far as I am aware, the three-phase-method and the "coupling" with > > EnergyPlus requires two runs? Could you describe the necessary workflow / > > calculation steps? Where / in which program is the setting of a Venetian > > type blind set, for example? Based on what? > > > > Best > > Achim > > > > > > > > Von: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk > > [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk esp-r-bounces at lists.strath. > > ac.uk>] Im Auftrag von Germ?n Molina Larrain Gesendet: Dienstag, 7. Mai > 2013 > > 01:07 > > An: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > Betreff: [esp-r] Calculation of solar gains through complex shading > devices > > > > Hello, > > > > I am German Molina, and I am doing my MSc. on complex shading systems, > and > > how to treat them for simulation purposes (Lighting and Solar Heat > Gains). > > I do not really use ESPr or any other thermal simulation tools, just > > Radiance for now. > > > > Finished my literature review, I realized that one method used for > lighting > > (the Three-phase method) might be good to be a good estimator of the > Solar > > Heat Gains through complex fenestration systems... later I found out that > > some people did this, and actually nowadays something very similar can be > > implemented in EnergyPlus. > > > > Long story short, I think (it is waiting for a validation) that I can > > accurately calculate the Solar Heat Gains through virtually any complex > > fenestration system of known BSDF matrices; and not only net solar heat > > gains, but I think I can also say where the solar radiation is going > > (calculate the fraction that goes to the ceiling, to the floor, etc.). > How > > difficult would it be to use this output as an input for ESPr? For what I > > understand, ESPr does not handle very well these kind of systems? > > > > What I am proposing can be actually reduced to just one phrase: Lets use > > Radiance to what it does best (radiation transport) and ESPr to what I > > think it does best (Thermal simulation). > > > > THANKS VERY MUCH > > > > German Molina > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: > > > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130507/5773ecb1/atta > > chment.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > esp-r mailing list > > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > > > > End of esp-r Digest, Vol 82, Issue 4 > > ************************************ > -- > _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ > |Marco Manzan Email: manzan at units.it | > |Tel: (+39) 040 5583506 Fax : (+39) 040 572033 | > |Dipartimento di Ingegneria e Architettura | > |Universita' degli Studi di Trieste | > |piazzale Europa 1, 34127 TRIESTE | > |_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _| > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130509/3b210dda/attachment-0001.html From cn06arc at leeds.ac.uk Fri May 10 03:12:22 2013 From: cn06arc at leeds.ac.uk (Andrew Cowie) Date: Fri, 10 May 2013 03:12:22 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] return of the CFD NaN Message-ID: Hi all, Once again i am getting the dreaded NaNs from the CFD. So far i have traced them back to the variable EDf; they are first occuring in LISOLV3 when called from CALCED. As far as i can tell the problem is that SU is getting ridiculously huge (e+35 after the first iteration, then e+36, then e+37) until Fortran freaks out and calls it Inf, which turns C in the E-W sweep in LISOLV3 to Inf, which is somehow instigating the NaNs in PHI (havn't worked out exactly how yet). I havn't traced SU back through CALCED yet, I just thought I'd check to see if anyone has any idea why this might be happening before i spend another day up until 3am code crawling. I am working with the model that my previous thread was about, with the slab blockage as an ersatz diffuser. Thanks in anticipation, Andy Cowie From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Fri May 10 07:09:15 2013 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Fri, 10 May 2013 07:09:15 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Calculation of solar gains through complex shading devices In-Reply-To: References: <4846873.ztWVvGDemR@udine>, Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA41301C9A98210FE@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> A question about temporal files.... The current version of the ESP-r Cookbook has a discussion about this. Essentially temporal files hold sequences of data which can be used by the simulator as it progresses through time. The information might be weather data or internal gains. There is a collection of 'temporal items' which specify how many columns of data and what the units are for a given concept. For example, one item is weather wind speed, there is a different item which holds all of the weather variables. It was put in place to support time frequencies less than one hour. The file has a header which defines the types of data contained in the file followed by columns of data. In the exemplars one of the models in the cellular_bc folder uses a temporal file and there is another used in the cg_ctl folder and there is a folder named Temporal_Clm which shows a demonstration. Regards, Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Germ?n Molina Larrain [gmolina1 at uc.cl] Sent: 09 May 2013 22:19 Cc: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Re: Calculation of solar gains through complex shading devices I am new at ESPr... how do the TDFs (temporal definition files) work? What is the format? I am interested in generating them and I could not find anything about them on the internet. THANKS VERY MUCH German 2013/5/7 Marco Manzan > hi German I'm following a different approach for solving complex fenestration and daylighting using different softwares, for instance DAYSIM for daylighting calculation and ESP-r for energy solution. Using DAYSIM I obtain a file with the energy consumption for internal luminaries, DAYSIM takes into accont auser behaviour and different kinds of controls on shading devices so also glare problem can be taken into account, then I send the information from DAYSIM, that is shading system schedule and internal loads due to artificial illumination and internal load (function of occupancy) to ESP-r by means of TDF (temporal definition files). The energy computation is performed using the complex fenestration and the control is driven by the TDF file generated using the DAYSIM code. Soon I hope to be able to commit the changes in my branch. For sure the time required for a whole year computation depends on the DAYSIM runtime and can be very time consuming. Marco Manzan In data marted? 7 maggio 2013 15:05:24, esp-r-request at lists.strath.ac.uk ha scritto: > Send esp-r mailing list submissions to > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > esp-r-request at lists.strath.ac.uk > > You can reach the person managing the list at > esp-r-owner at lists.strath.ac.uk > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of esp-r digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Calculation of solar gains through complex shading > devices (Germ?n Molina Larrain) > 2. Re: Calculation of solar gains through complex shading > devices (Geissler Achim) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 7 May 2013 09:51:30 -0400 > From: Germ?n Molina Larrain > > Subject: [esp-r] Re: Calculation of solar gains through complex > shading devices > To: Geissler Achim > > Cc: "esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk" > > Message-ID: > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > BSDFs can be generated using WINDOW, and I evaluated using Radiance's > genBSDF to generate Solar Bidirectional Information (compared the results > with the analytical models done inside WINDOW 6.0 and over). Nowadays, the > BSDFs come in a standard (probably still evolving) .xml file, and I thinkg > E+ format is very simple (I saw one once, but very quickly). > > On the other hand, how does ESPr use Radiance or the Lighting calculations? > Making an annual simulation may take a really long time. > > The reason why I chose the Three-phase method is because it allows "easy" > control of shading, and a very fast simulation. Also, it allows to change > and evaluate different shading systems. So it is very good for optimization. > > > 2013/5/7 Geissler Achim > > > > Hi Germ?n**** > > > > ** ** > > > > some comments below, inline.**** > > > > ** ** > > > > Best**** > > > > Achim**** > > > > ** ** > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > T +41 61 467 44 51 > > > > achim.geissler at fhnw.ch > > www.fhnw.ch/iebau > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > **** > > > > ** ** > > > > *Von:* germolinal at gmail.com [mailto:germolinal at gmail.com] *Im Auftrag von > > *Germ?n Molina Larrain > > *Gesendet:* Dienstag, 7. Mai 2013 15:33 > > *An:* Geissler Achim > > *Cc:* esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > *Betreff:* Re: [esp-r] Calculation of solar gains through complex shading > > devices**** > > > > ** ** > > > > Hi Achim, **** > > > > ** ** > > > > my original idea of workflow was thought on the basis of a straightforward > > finide difference simulation (as I have done in Matlab)... so it would be > > to make the solar simulations (calculation of solar gains and Daylight), > > and then, to make the thermal simulation; knowing the flows to each node > > (calculated before).**** > > > > ** ** > > > > Now, since you say that ESPr supports BSDF input, maybe the whole thermal > > simulation should be done in ESPr, leaving Radiance just for lighting. I > > have been working on the generation of the BSDFs, and I think the problem > > is practically solved right now, using tools that already exist (I expect > > I > > can publish something related to this). How long do those (BSDFed) > > simulations take? I have heard that in E+ they take considerably more time > > than the other ones.**** > > > > ** ** > > > > I'm afraid I can't tell you, as I have never personally used that > > particular feature of ESP-r. Also, I am not sure if the format is any > > "general" BSDF type. How do you generate your BSDFs?**** > > > > ** ** > > > > As far as I am aware, the three-phase-method and the "coupling" with > > EnergyPlus requires two runs? Could you describe the necessary workflow / > > calculation steps? Where / in which program is the setting of a Venetian > > type blind set, for example? Based on what?**** > > > > ** ** > > > > The direct coupling, I was informed, is complicated. But, just as in ESPr, > > E+ was provided with the capability of using BSDF information in a very > > similar way as the Three-phase method does. So everything is actually made > > on E+.**** > > > > ** ** > > > > ** ** > > > > Anyway, I guess the best should be to make the lighting simulation, > > calculate the electric lighting consumption and transform it into internal > > gains for a posterior ESPr simulation, considering BSDFs? Please feel free > > to comment.**** > > > > ** ** > > > > Well, basically ESP-r and Radiance can be used fully coupled. I.e., if you > > want to have lighting control, you can couple a Radiance model, let that > > do > > the lighting calculations and give back which percentage of the pre-set > > set > > point are covered by daylight - ESP-r will then add the rest as electric > > internal gain based on the defined electric light installation. The gain > > due to daylight is taken into account by the solar gain. This can also be > > used with the CFCs - there is an experimental feature which generates the > > Radiance Model with a Venetian type blind during run-time with the slat > > angle as given by solar needs (e.g. "cut off" control). Computing times > > are, of course, somewhat longer than usual.**** > > > > ** ** > > > > ** ** > > > > THANKS VERY MUCH**** > > > > ** ** > > > > German**** > > > > ** ** > > > > 2013/5/7 Geissler Achim >**** > > > > Dear German**** > > > > **** > > > > basically, that is a very interesting idea. However, I would not expect > > this to be easy and straightforward, as one strength of ESP-r is that it > > solves all the physics simultaneously. Currently, there are two possible > > ways to include complex shading: The "CFC" model for multi-layer > > constructions (to date, this covers venetian type blinds, roller blinds > > and > > meshes are "in the works" as far as I am aware) and the input of > > bi-directional reflection / transmission input data ("BRTD") - here the > > problem is basically generating the necessary input data, however this may > > be possible via Window 7 (LBNL), now.**** > > > > **** > > > > ESP-r can basically take the solar distribution on the surfaces of the > > zone behind the window into account. In the mainstream code, the CFCs lack > > daylighting, however. I am not sure what the situation in this regard for > > the "BRTD"-type of models is.**** > > > > **** > > > > As far as I am aware, the three-phase-method and the "coupling" with > > EnergyPlus requires two runs? Could you describe the necessary workflow / > > calculation steps? Where / in which program is the setting of a Venetian > > type blind set, for example? Based on what?**** > > > > **** > > > > Best**** > > > > Achim**** > > > > **** > > > > **** > > > > **** > > > > *Von:* esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto: > > esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] *Im Auftrag von *Germ?n Molina Larrain > > *Gesendet:* Dienstag, 7. Mai 2013 01:07 > > *An:* esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > *Betreff:* [esp-r] Calculation of solar gains through complex shading > > devices**** > > > > **** > > > > Hello, **** > > > > **** > > > > I am German Molina, and I am doing my MSc. on complex shading systems, and > > how to treat them for simulation purposes (Lighting and Solar Heat Gains). > > I do not really use ESPr or any other thermal simulation tools, just > > Radiance for now.**** > > > > **** > > > > Finished my literature review, I realized that one method used for > > lighting (the Three-phase method) might be good to be a good estimator of > > the Solar Heat Gains through complex fenestration systems... later I found > > out that some people did this, and actually nowadays something very > > similar > > can be implemented in EnergyPlus.**** > > > > **** > > > > Long story short, I think (it is waiting for a validation) that I can > > accurately calculate the Solar Heat Gains through virtually any complex > > fenestration system of known BSDF matrices; and not only net solar heat > > gains, but I think I can also say where the solar radiation is going > > (calculate the fraction that goes to the ceiling, to the floor, etc.). How > > difficult would it be to use this output as an input for ESPr? For what I > > understand, ESPr does not handle very well these kind of systems?**** > > > > **** > > > > What I am proposing can be actually reduced to just one phrase: Lets use > > Radiance to what it does best (radiation transport) and ESPr to what I > > think it does best (Thermal simulation).**** > > > > **** > > > > THANKS VERY MUCH**** > > > > **** > > > > German Molina**** > > > > ** ** > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130507/fb681b46/atta > chment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 7 May 2013 13:44:24 +0000 > From: Geissler Achim > > Subject: [esp-r] Re: Calculation of solar gains through complex > shading devices > To: Germ?n Molina Larrain > > Cc: "esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk" > > Message-ID: > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Hi Germ?n > > some comments below, inline. > > Best > Achim > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > T +41 61 467 44 51 > > achim.geissler at fhnw.ch> > www.fhnw.ch/iebau > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > Von: germolinal at gmail.com [mailto:germolinal at gmail.com] Im Auftrag von > Germ?n Molina Larrain Gesendet: Dienstag, 7. Mai 2013 15:33 > An: Geissler Achim > Cc: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Betreff: Re: [esp-r] Calculation of solar gains through complex shading > devices > > Hi Achim, > > my original idea of workflow was thought on the basis of a straightforward > finide difference simulation (as I have done in Matlab)... so it would be > to make the solar simulations (calculation of solar gains and Daylight), > and then, to make the thermal simulation; knowing the flows to each node > (calculated before). > > Now, since you say that ESPr supports BSDF input, maybe the whole thermal > simulation should be done in ESPr, leaving Radiance just for lighting. I > have been working on the generation of the BSDFs, and I think the problem > is practically solved right now, using tools that already exist (I expect I > can publish something related to this). How long do those (BSDFed) > simulations take? I have heard that in E+ they take considerably more time > than the other ones. > > I'm afraid I can't tell you, as I have never personally used that particular > feature of ESP-r. Also, I am not sure if the format is any "general" BSDF > type. How do you generate your BSDFs? > > As far as I am aware, the three-phase-method and the "coupling" with > EnergyPlus requires two runs? Could you describe the necessary workflow / > calculation steps? Where / in which program is the setting of a Venetian > type blind set, for example? Based on what? > > The direct coupling, I was informed, is complicated. But, just as in ESPr, > E+ was provided with the capability of using BSDF information in a very > similar way as the Three-phase method does. So everything is actually made > on E+. > > > Anyway, I guess the best should be to make the lighting simulation, > calculate the electric lighting consumption and transform it into internal > gains for a posterior ESPr simulation, considering BSDFs? Please feel free > to comment. > > Well, basically ESP-r and Radiance can be used fully coupled. I.e., if you > want to have lighting control, you can couple a Radiance model, let that do > the lighting calculations and give back which percentage of the pre-set set > point are covered by daylight - ESP-r will then add the rest as electric > internal gain based on the defined electric light installation. The gain > due to daylight is taken into account by the solar gain. This can also be > used with the CFCs - there is an experimental feature which generates the > Radiance Model with a Venetian type blind during run-time with the slat > angle as given by solar needs (e.g. "cut off" control). Computing times > are, of course, somewhat longer than usual. > > > THANKS VERY MUCH > > German > > 2013/5/7 Geissler Achim > >> Dear German > > basically, that is a very interesting idea. However, I would not expect this > to be easy and straightforward, as one strength of ESP-r is that it solves > all the physics simultaneously. Currently, there are two possible ways to > include complex shading: The "CFC" model for multi-layer constructions (to > date, this covers venetian type blinds, roller blinds and meshes are "in > the works" as far as I am aware) and the input of bi-directional > reflection / transmission input data ("BRTD") - here the problem is > basically generating the necessary input data, however this may be possible > via Window 7 (LBNL), now. > > ESP-r can basically take the solar distribution on the surfaces of the zone > behind the window into account. In the mainstream code, the CFCs lack > daylighting, however. I am not sure what the situation in this regard for > the "BRTD"-type of models is. > > As far as I am aware, the three-phase-method and the "coupling" with > EnergyPlus requires two runs? Could you describe the necessary workflow / > calculation steps? Where / in which program is the setting of a Venetian > type blind set, for example? Based on what? > > Best > Achim > > > > Von: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk > [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk. > ac.uk>] Im Auftrag von Germ?n Molina Larrain Gesendet: Dienstag, 7. Mai 2013 > 01:07 > An: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk> > Betreff: [esp-r] Calculation of solar gains through complex shading devices > > Hello, > > I am German Molina, and I am doing my MSc. on complex shading systems, and > how to treat them for simulation purposes (Lighting and Solar Heat Gains). > I do not really use ESPr or any other thermal simulation tools, just > Radiance for now. > > Finished my literature review, I realized that one method used for lighting > (the Three-phase method) might be good to be a good estimator of the Solar > Heat Gains through complex fenestration systems... later I found out that > some people did this, and actually nowadays something very similar can be > implemented in EnergyPlus. > > Long story short, I think (it is waiting for a validation) that I can > accurately calculate the Solar Heat Gains through virtually any complex > fenestration system of known BSDF matrices; and not only net solar heat > gains, but I think I can also say where the solar radiation is going > (calculate the fraction that goes to the ceiling, to the floor, etc.). How > difficult would it be to use this output as an input for ESPr? For what I > understand, ESPr does not handle very well these kind of systems? > > What I am proposing can be actually reduced to just one phrase: Lets use > Radiance to what it does best (radiation transport) and ESPr to what I > think it does best (Thermal simulation). > > THANKS VERY MUCH > > German Molina > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130507/5773ecb1/atta > chment.html > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > > End of esp-r Digest, Vol 82, Issue 4 > ************************************ -- _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ |Marco Manzan Email: manzan at units.it | |Tel: (+39) 040 5583506 Fax : (+39) 040 572033 | |Dipartimento di Ingegneria e Architettura | |Universita' degli Studi di Trieste | |piazzale Europa 1, 34127 TRIESTE | |_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _| _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From gmolina1 at uc.cl Fri May 10 13:40:39 2013 From: gmolina1 at uc.cl (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Germ=E1n_Molina_Larrain?=) Date: Fri, 10 May 2013 08:40:39 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Calculation of solar gains through complex shading devices In-Reply-To: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA41301C9A98210FE@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> References: <4846873.ztWVvGDemR@udine> <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA41301C9A98210FE@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> Message-ID: Thanks Jon! 2013/5/10 Jon Hand > > A question about temporal files.... > > The current version of the ESP-r Cookbook has a discussion about this. > > Essentially temporal files hold sequences of data which can be used by the > simulator as it progresses through time. The information might be weather > data > or internal gains. There is a collection of 'temporal items' which specify > how many columns of data and what the units are for a given concept. For > example, one item is weather wind speed, there is a different item which > holds all of the weather variables. > > It was put in place to support time frequencies less than > one hour. The file has a header which defines the types of data contained > in the file followed by columns of data. > > In the exemplars one of the models in the cellular_bc folder uses a > temporal > file and there is another used in the cg_ctl folder and there is a folder > named Temporal_Clm which shows a demonstration. > > Regards, Jon Hand > ________________________________________ > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] > On Behalf Of Germ?n Molina Larrain [gmolina1 at uc.cl] > Sent: 09 May 2013 22:19 > Cc: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Subject: [esp-r] Re: Calculation of solar gains through complex shading > devices > > I am new at ESPr... how do the TDFs (temporal definition files) work? What > is the format? I am interested in generating them and I could not find > anything about them on the internet. > > THANKS VERY MUCH > > German > > > 2013/5/7 Marco Manzan > > hi German > > I'm following a different approach for solving complex fenestration and > daylighting using different softwares, for instance DAYSIM for daylighting > calculation and ESP-r for energy solution. > Using DAYSIM I obtain a file with the energy consumption for internal > luminaries, DAYSIM takes into accont auser behaviour and different kinds of > controls on shading devices so also glare problem can be taken into > account, > then I send the information from DAYSIM, that is shading system schedule > and > internal loads due to artificial illumination and internal load (function > of > occupancy) to ESP-r by means of TDF (temporal definition files). The energy > computation is performed using the complex fenestration and the control is > driven by the TDF file generated using the DAYSIM code. Soon I hope to be > able > to commit the changes in my branch. For sure the time required for a whole > year computation depends on the DAYSIM runtime and can be very time > consuming. > > Marco Manzan > > In data marted? 7 maggio 2013 15:05:24, esp-r-request at lists.strath.ac.uk > ha > scritto: > > Send esp-r mailing list submissions to > > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > > esp-r-request at lists.strath.ac.uk esp-r-request at lists.strath.ac.uk> > > > > You can reach the person managing the list at > > esp-r-owner at lists.strath.ac.uk esp-r-owner at lists.strath.ac.uk> > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > > than "Re: Contents of esp-r digest..." > > > > > > Today's Topics: > > > > 1. Re: Calculation of solar gains through complex shading > > devices (Germ?n Molina Larrain) > > 2. Re: Calculation of solar gains through complex shading > > devices (Geissler Achim) > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Message: 1 > > Date: Tue, 7 May 2013 09:51:30 -0400 > > From: Germ?n Molina Larrain > > > Subject: [esp-r] Re: Calculation of solar gains through complex > > shading devices > > To: Geissler Achim >> > > Cc: "esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk" < > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk> > > Message-ID: > > E42FohtcnJxGHoBhmeHV2E6ThiMEQ at mail.gmail.com E42FohtcnJxGHoBhmeHV2E6ThiMEQ at mail.gmail.com>> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > > BSDFs can be generated using WINDOW, and I evaluated using Radiance's > > genBSDF to generate Solar Bidirectional Information (compared the results > > with the analytical models done inside WINDOW 6.0 and over). Nowadays, > the > > BSDFs come in a standard (probably still evolving) .xml file, and I > thinkg > > E+ format is very simple (I saw one once, but very quickly). > > > > On the other hand, how does ESPr use Radiance or the Lighting > calculations? > > Making an annual simulation may take a really long time. > > > > The reason why I chose the Three-phase method is because it allows "easy" > > control of shading, and a very fast simulation. Also, it allows to change > > and evaluate different shading systems. So it is very good for > optimization. > > > > > > 2013/5/7 Geissler Achim achim.geissler at fhnw.ch>> > > > > > Hi Germ?n**** > > > > > > ** ** > > > > > > some comments below, inline.**** > > > > > > ** ** > > > > > > Best**** > > > > > > Achim**** > > > > > > ** ** > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > T +41 61 467 44 51 > > > > > > achim.geissler at fhnw.ch > > > www.fhnw.ch/iebau > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > **** > > > > > > ** ** > > > > > > *Von:* germolinal at gmail.com [mailto: > germolinal at gmail.com] *Im Auftrag von > > > *Germ?n Molina Larrain > > > *Gesendet:* Dienstag, 7. Mai 2013 15:33 > > > *An:* Geissler Achim > > > *Cc:* esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > > *Betreff:* Re: [esp-r] Calculation of solar gains through complex > shading > > > devices**** > > > > > > ** ** > > > > > > Hi Achim, **** > > > > > > ** ** > > > > > > my original idea of workflow was thought on the basis of a > straightforward > > > finide difference simulation (as I have done in Matlab)... so it would > be > > > to make the solar simulations (calculation of solar gains and > Daylight), > > > and then, to make the thermal simulation; knowing the flows to each > node > > > (calculated before).**** > > > > > > ** ** > > > > > > Now, since you say that ESPr supports BSDF input, maybe the whole > thermal > > > simulation should be done in ESPr, leaving Radiance just for lighting. > I > > > have been working on the generation of the BSDFs, and I think the > problem > > > is practically solved right now, using tools that already exist (I > expect > > > I > > > can publish something related to this). How long do those (BSDFed) > > > simulations take? I have heard that in E+ they take considerably more > time > > > than the other ones.**** > > > > > > ** ** > > > > > > I'm afraid I can't tell you, as I have never personally used that > > > particular feature of ESP-r. Also, I am not sure if the format is any > > > "general" BSDF type. How do you generate your BSDFs?**** > > > > > > ** ** > > > > > > As far as I am aware, the three-phase-method and the "coupling" with > > > EnergyPlus requires two runs? Could you describe the necessary > workflow / > > > calculation steps? Where / in which program is the setting of a > Venetian > > > type blind set, for example? Based on what?**** > > > > > > ** ** > > > > > > The direct coupling, I was informed, is complicated. But, just as in > ESPr, > > > E+ was provided with the capability of using BSDF information in a very > > > similar way as the Three-phase method does. So everything is actually > made > > > on E+.**** > > > > > > ** ** > > > > > > ** ** > > > > > > Anyway, I guess the best should be to make the lighting simulation, > > > calculate the electric lighting consumption and transform it into > internal > > > gains for a posterior ESPr simulation, considering BSDFs? Please feel > free > > > to comment.**** > > > > > > ** ** > > > > > > Well, basically ESP-r and Radiance can be used fully coupled. I.e., if > you > > > want to have lighting control, you can couple a Radiance model, let > that > > > do > > > the lighting calculations and give back which percentage of the pre-set > > > set > > > point are covered by daylight - ESP-r will then add the rest as > electric > > > internal gain based on the defined electric light installation. The > gain > > > due to daylight is taken into account by the solar gain. This can also > be > > > used with the CFCs - there is an experimental feature which generates > the > > > Radiance Model with a Venetian type blind during run-time with the slat > > > angle as given by solar needs (e.g. "cut off" control). Computing times > > > are, of course, somewhat longer than usual.**** > > > > > > ** ** > > > > > > ** ** > > > > > > THANKS VERY MUCH**** > > > > > > ** ** > > > > > > German**** > > > > > > ** ** > > > > > > 2013/5/7 Geissler Achim achim.geissler at fhnw.ch>>**** > > > > > > Dear German**** > > > > > > **** > > > > > > basically, that is a very interesting idea. However, I would not expect > > > this to be easy and straightforward, as one strength of ESP-r is that > it > > > solves all the physics simultaneously. Currently, there are two > possible > > > ways to include complex shading: The "CFC" model for multi-layer > > > constructions (to date, this covers venetian type blinds, roller blinds > > > and > > > meshes are "in the works" as far as I am aware) and the input of > > > bi-directional reflection / transmission input data ("BRTD") - here the > > > problem is basically generating the necessary input data, however this > may > > > be possible via Window 7 (LBNL), now.**** > > > > > > **** > > > > > > ESP-r can basically take the solar distribution on the surfaces of the > > > zone behind the window into account. In the mainstream code, the CFCs > lack > > > daylighting, however. I am not sure what the situation in this regard > for > > > the "BRTD"-type of models is.**** > > > > > > **** > > > > > > As far as I am aware, the three-phase-method and the "coupling" with > > > EnergyPlus requires two runs? Could you describe the necessary > workflow / > > > calculation steps? Where / in which program is the setting of a > Venetian > > > type blind set, for example? Based on what?**** > > > > > > **** > > > > > > Best**** > > > > > > Achim**** > > > > > > **** > > > > > > **** > > > > > > **** > > > > > > *Von:* esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk> [mailto: > > > esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk>] *Im Auftrag von *Germ?n Molina Larrain > > > *Gesendet:* Dienstag, 7. Mai 2013 01:07 > > > *An:* esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > > *Betreff:* [esp-r] Calculation of solar gains through complex shading > > > devices**** > > > > > > **** > > > > > > Hello, **** > > > > > > **** > > > > > > I am German Molina, and I am doing my MSc. on complex shading systems, > and > > > how to treat them for simulation purposes (Lighting and Solar Heat > Gains). > > > I do not really use ESPr or any other thermal simulation tools, just > > > Radiance for now.**** > > > > > > **** > > > > > > Finished my literature review, I realized that one method used for > > > lighting (the Three-phase method) might be good to be a good estimator > of > > > the Solar Heat Gains through complex fenestration systems... later I > found > > > out that some people did this, and actually nowadays something very > > > similar > > > can be implemented in EnergyPlus.**** > > > > > > **** > > > > > > Long story short, I think (it is waiting for a validation) that I can > > > accurately calculate the Solar Heat Gains through virtually any complex > > > fenestration system of known BSDF matrices; and not only net solar heat > > > gains, but I think I can also say where the solar radiation is going > > > (calculate the fraction that goes to the ceiling, to the floor, etc.). > How > > > difficult would it be to use this output as an input for ESPr? For > what I > > > understand, ESPr does not handle very well these kind of systems?**** > > > > > > **** > > > > > > What I am proposing can be actually reduced to just one phrase: Lets > use > > > Radiance to what it does best (radiation transport) and ESPr to what I > > > think it does best (Thermal simulation).**** > > > > > > **** > > > > > > THANKS VERY MUCH**** > > > > > > **** > > > > > > German Molina**** > > > > > > ** ** > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: > > > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130507/fb681b46/atta > > chment-0001.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 2 > > Date: Tue, 7 May 2013 13:44:24 +0000 > > From: Geissler Achim achim.geissler at fhnw.ch>> > > Subject: [esp-r] Re: Calculation of solar gains through complex > > shading devices > > To: Germ?n Molina Larrain > > > Cc: "esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk" < > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk> > > Message-ID: > > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > > Hi Germ?n > > > > some comments below, inline. > > > > Best > > Achim > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > T +41 61 467 44 51 > > > > achim.geissler at fhnw.ch achim.geissler at fhnw.ch> > > www.fhnw.ch/iebau > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > Von: germolinal at gmail.com [mailto: > germolinal at gmail.com] Im Auftrag von > > Germ?n Molina Larrain Gesendet: Dienstag, 7. Mai 2013 15:33 > > An: Geissler Achim > > Cc: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > Betreff: Re: [esp-r] Calculation of solar gains through complex shading > > devices > > > > Hi Achim, > > > > my original idea of workflow was thought on the basis of a > straightforward > > finide difference simulation (as I have done in Matlab)... so it would be > > to make the solar simulations (calculation of solar gains and Daylight), > > and then, to make the thermal simulation; knowing the flows to each node > > (calculated before). > > > > Now, since you say that ESPr supports BSDF input, maybe the whole thermal > > simulation should be done in ESPr, leaving Radiance just for lighting. I > > have been working on the generation of the BSDFs, and I think the problem > > is practically solved right now, using tools that already exist (I > expect I > > can publish something related to this). How long do those (BSDFed) > > simulations take? I have heard that in E+ they take considerably more > time > > than the other ones. > > > > I'm afraid I can't tell you, as I have never personally used that > particular > > feature of ESP-r. Also, I am not sure if the format is any "general" BSDF > > type. How do you generate your BSDFs? > > > > As far as I am aware, the three-phase-method and the "coupling" with > > EnergyPlus requires two runs? Could you describe the necessary workflow / > > calculation steps? Where / in which program is the setting of a Venetian > > type blind set, for example? Based on what? > > > > The direct coupling, I was informed, is complicated. But, just as in > ESPr, > > E+ was provided with the capability of using BSDF information in a very > > similar way as the Three-phase method does. So everything is actually > made > > on E+. > > > > > > Anyway, I guess the best should be to make the lighting simulation, > > calculate the electric lighting consumption and transform it into > internal > > gains for a posterior ESPr simulation, considering BSDFs? Please feel > free > > to comment. > > > > Well, basically ESP-r and Radiance can be used fully coupled. I.e., if > you > > want to have lighting control, you can couple a Radiance model, let that > do > > the lighting calculations and give back which percentage of the pre-set > set > > point are covered by daylight - ESP-r will then add the rest as electric > > internal gain based on the defined electric light installation. The gain > > due to daylight is taken into account by the solar gain. This can also be > > used with the CFCs - there is an experimental feature which generates the > > Radiance Model with a Venetian type blind during run-time with the slat > > angle as given by solar needs (e.g. "cut off" control). Computing times > > are, of course, somewhat longer than usual. > > > > > > THANKS VERY MUCH > > > > German > > > > 2013/5/7 Geissler Achim > > achim.geissler at fhnw.ch>> Dear German > > > > basically, that is a very interesting idea. However, I would not expect > this > > to be easy and straightforward, as one strength of ESP-r is that it > solves > > all the physics simultaneously. Currently, there are two possible ways to > > include complex shading: The "CFC" model for multi-layer constructions > (to > > date, this covers venetian type blinds, roller blinds and meshes are "in > > the works" as far as I am aware) and the input of bi-directional > > reflection / transmission input data ("BRTD") - here the problem is > > basically generating the necessary input data, however this may be > possible > > via Window 7 (LBNL), now. > > > > ESP-r can basically take the solar distribution on the surfaces of the > zone > > behind the window into account. In the mainstream code, the CFCs lack > > daylighting, however. I am not sure what the situation in this regard for > > the "BRTD"-type of models is. > > > > As far as I am aware, the three-phase-method and the "coupling" with > > EnergyPlus requires two runs? Could you describe the necessary workflow / > > calculation steps? Where / in which program is the setting of a Venetian > > type blind set, for example? Based on what? > > > > Best > > Achim > > > > > > > > Von: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk> > > [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk> . > > ac.uk>] Im Auftrag von Germ?n Molina Larrain Gesendet: > Dienstag, 7. Mai 2013 > > 01:07 > > An: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk> > > Betreff: [esp-r] Calculation of solar gains through complex shading > devices > > > > Hello, > > > > I am German Molina, and I am doing my MSc. on complex shading systems, > and > > how to treat them for simulation purposes (Lighting and Solar Heat > Gains). > > I do not really use ESPr or any other thermal simulation tools, just > > Radiance for now. > > > > Finished my literature review, I realized that one method used for > lighting > > (the Three-phase method) might be good to be a good estimator of the > Solar > > Heat Gains through complex fenestration systems... later I found out that > > some people did this, and actually nowadays something very similar can be > > implemented in EnergyPlus. > > > > Long story short, I think (it is waiting for a validation) that I can > > accurately calculate the Solar Heat Gains through virtually any complex > > fenestration system of known BSDF matrices; and not only net solar heat > > gains, but I think I can also say where the solar radiation is going > > (calculate the fraction that goes to the ceiling, to the floor, etc.). > How > > difficult would it be to use this output as an input for ESPr? For what I > > understand, ESPr does not handle very well these kind of systems? > > > > What I am proposing can be actually reduced to just one phrase: Lets use > > Radiance to what it does best (radiation transport) and ESPr to what I > > think it does best (Thermal simulation). > > > > THANKS VERY MUCH > > > > German Molina > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: > > > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130507/5773ecb1/atta > > chment.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > esp-r mailing list > > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > > > > End of esp-r Digest, Vol 82, Issue 4 > > ************************************ > -- > _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ > |Marco Manzan Email: manzan at units.it > | > |Tel: (+39) 040 5583506 Fax : (+39) > 040 572033 | > |Dipartimento di Ingegneria e Architettura | > |Universita' degli Studi di Trieste | > |piazzale Europa 1, 34127 TRIESTE | > |_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _| > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130510/25b78154/attachment-0001.html From germolinal at gmail.com Fri May 10 15:07:00 2013 From: germolinal at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Germ=E1n_Molina_Larrain?=) Date: Fri, 10 May 2013 10:07:00 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] Radiance coupling and control of BSDF shadings Message-ID: Dear everyone, I am thinking on coupling Radiance with ESPr using the Three-phase method. The plan is simple: Make a detailed simulation on Radiance, and create a schedule of artificial lighting power (energy consumption / internal gains) and, somehow, shading control. On the lighting power part, I was thinking on creating a Zonal Casual Gain File, that will account for the internal gains generated by the lighting. Is this valid? should it be just convective? radiative? On the other hand... in a recent e-mail I was told that ESPr can use Bidirectional Information (probably extracted from LBNLs WINDOW software) to make simulations; but, since a big advantage of the Three-phase method is to allow easy control, I was wondering if it was possible to, on each timestep, modify the BSDF information (accounting, for example, opening or closing blinds) on ESPr. Anyway... consider this an open topic, and please feel free to comment. I know I am not the only one who has thought about these topics, so you experiences will be very welcomed. THANKS VERY MUCH German -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130510/dbb9ba15/attachment.html From achim.geissler at intergga.ch Fri May 10 15:29:17 2013 From: achim.geissler at intergga.ch (Achim Geissler) Date: Fri, 10 May 2013 16:29:17 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Radiance coupling and control of BSDF shadings In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear Germ?n to control lighting power from a yearly data set (as I understand you would have as output of the Three-phase-method) you would probably best use the tdf file input as described by Jon. The BSDF-files can hold more than one data set, basically. So, if you control your blind with a given set of possible settings (up, down horizontal, down 45 deg and down closed for example), you can probably have all the according data sets available and switch during run-time. Best Achim On May 10, 2013, at 4:07 PM, Germ?n Molina Larrain wrote: > Dear everyone, > > I am thinking on coupling Radiance with ESPr using the Three-phase method. The plan is simple: Make a detailed simulation on Radiance, and create a schedule of artificial lighting power (energy consumption / internal gains) and, somehow, shading control. > > On the lighting power part, I was thinking on creating a Zonal Casual Gain File, that will account for the internal gains generated by the lighting. Is this valid? should it be just convective? radiative? > > On the other hand... in a recent e-mail I was told that ESPr can use Bidirectional Information (probably extracted from LBNLs WINDOW software) to make simulations; but, since a big advantage of the Three-phase method is to allow easy control, I was wondering if it was possible to, on each timestep, modify the BSDF information (accounting, for example, opening or closing blinds) on ESPr. > > Anyway... consider this an open topic, and please feel free to comment. I know I am not the only one who has thought about these topics, so you experiences will be very welcomed. > > THANKS VERY MUCH > > German > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r achim.geissler at intergga.ch -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130510/be6c412c/attachment.html From germolinal at gmail.com Fri May 10 15:52:43 2013 From: germolinal at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Germ=E1n_Molina_Larrain?=) Date: Fri, 10 May 2013 10:52:43 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Radiance coupling and control of BSDF shadings In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks Achim, I will check better the TDFs. About the BSDFs, those are good news! thanks very much... I will explore more this. So, if I have a set of positions of my shading system (one BSDF by each position), I should be able to control de BSDF in ESPr simulation, changing it over time? THANKS German 2013/5/10 Achim Geissler > Dear Germ?n > > to control lighting power from a yearly data set (as I understand you > would have as output of the Three-phase-method) you would probably best use > the tdf file input as described by Jon. > > The BSDF-files can hold more than one data set, basically. So, if you > control your blind with a given set of possible settings (up, down > horizontal, down 45 deg and down closed for example), you can probably have > all the according data sets available and switch during run-time. > > Best > Achim > > > On May 10, 2013, at 4:07 PM, Germ?n Molina Larrain > wrote: > > Dear everyone, > > I am thinking on coupling Radiance with ESPr using the Three-phase method. > The plan is simple: Make a detailed simulation on Radiance, and create a > schedule of artificial lighting power (energy consumption / internal gains) > and, somehow, shading control. > > On the lighting power part, I was thinking on creating a Zonal Casual Gain > File, that will account for the internal gains generated by the lighting. Is > this valid? should it be just convective? radiative? > > On the other hand... in a recent e-mail I was told that ESPr can use > Bidirectional Information (probably extracted from LBNLs WINDOW software) > to make simulations; but, since a big advantage of the Three-phase method > is to allow easy control, I was wondering if it was possible to, on each > timestep, modify the BSDF information (accounting, for example, opening or > closing blinds) on ESPr. > > Anyway... consider this an open topic, and please feel free to comment. I > know I am not the only one who has thought about these topics, so you > experiences will be very welcomed. > > THANKS VERY MUCH > > German > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > > > achim.geissler at intergga.ch > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130510/3e340573/attachment.html From cn06arc at leeds.ac.uk Fri May 10 20:33:35 2013 From: cn06arc at leeds.ac.uk (Andrew Cowie) Date: Fri, 10 May 2013 20:33:35 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: CFD NaNs Message-ID: Hi all, I've tracked the problem to MODED line 1783 (called from CALCED). The first Inf is occuring because TEf(i,j,k) is about 8e+11, i take it this is not meant to go this high? I can't make heads nor tail of the code to work out what TEf actually is, does anyone know? And does anyone know why this might be happening? It is occuring at a node adjacent to the inlet, so im guessing it has something to do with the diffuser modelling. However i've played around with the gridding geometry and it doesnt seem to make much difference. If anyone has any ideas at all please do contact me, i have a conference paper deadline in a week and no results now because of this problem. I don't really have any other option but to have some kind of diffuser in there, and i need to keep the gridding quite coarse to keep computation time down. Thanks in anticipation, (and a little desperately) Andy Cowie From A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk Fri May 10 20:48:31 2013 From: A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk (Arianna Sdei) Date: Fri, 10 May 2013 19:48:31 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Radiance coupling and control of BSDF shadings In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C1219C1BBF1F@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> Dear German, I am planning to start modelling some shading types with ESP-r as part of my PhD very soon and your email at this time is so relevant. I am planning to model venetian blinds, roman blinds, simple overhangs and awnings. My aim is to find the cooling load reduction when these types of shading are used in the summer. There may be an energy increase due to the use of artificial lighting. That which may involve a detailed daylight study using radiance. I would like to also work on the opening-closing of these systems. It looks like you are doing a very detailed study and I would like to know more about it, I hope we can do some work together, please do get in touch. Thank you, Arianna From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Germ?n Molina Larrain Sent: 10 May 2013 15:07 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Radiance coupling and control of BSDF shadings Dear everyone, I am thinking on coupling Radiance with ESPr using the Three-phase method. The plan is simple: Make a detailed simulation on Radiance, and create a schedule of artificial lighting power (energy consumption / internal gains) and, somehow, shading control. On the lighting power part, I was thinking on creating a Zonal Casual Gain File, that will account for the internal gains generated by the lighting. Is this valid? should it be just convective? radiative? On the other hand... in a recent e-mail I was told that ESPr can use Bidirectional Information (probably extracted from LBNLs WINDOW software) to make simulations; but, since a big advantage of the Three-phase method is to allow easy control, I was wondering if it was possible to, on each timestep, modify the BSDF information (accounting, for example, opening or closing blinds) on ESPr. Anyway... consider this an open topic, and please feel free to comment. I know I am not the only one who has thought about these topics, so you experiences will be very welcomed. THANKS VERY MUCH German ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130510/60a0e40f/attachment.html From ringo.satyarr at gmail.com Sat May 11 15:18:15 2013 From: ringo.satyarr at gmail.com (Satya) Date: Sat, 11 May 2013 19:48:15 +0530 Subject: [esp-r] Role of solar obstructions in simulation Message-ID: Hi The cookbook states that insolation and shading calculations are performed after addition of solar obstacles. The figure (synopsis of shading) displays values of direct and diffuse shading (among other things). Is the insolation and shading module the only way to use solar obstructions or are external solar obstructions accounted for while running a simulation for resultant zone temperatures? I am modelling a top floor flat and I believe that the shade from an overhead tank will cause a noticeable difference in resultant zone temperatures. Should I add a 'tank' zone to my model or will adding the tank walls as external shading suffice? Regards, Satya -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130511/8d351628/attachment.html From achim.geissler at intergga.ch Sat May 11 19:01:28 2013 From: achim.geissler at intergga.ch (Achim Geissler) Date: Sat, 11 May 2013 20:01:28 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Role of solar obstructions in simulation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <17793BEA-3002-4DB9-9330-CBA152E9DD9B@intergga.ch> Hi Satya adding the tank walls as obstructions will suffice. Note, however, that ESP-r does not automatically generate the necessary shading file after adding obstructions. You will need to set the toggles "shading" and "insolation" to "calculate" and let the shading module generate the files - after these are set up, the simulation takes the shading by obstructions into account. Obstructions do not reflect solar radiation, though, they are "perfectly black". Best Achim On May 11, 2013, at 4:18 PM, Satya wrote: > Hi > > The cookbook states that insolation and shading calculations are performed after addition of solar obstacles. The figure (synopsis of shading) displays values of direct and diffuse shading (among other things). > > Is the insolation and shading module the only way to use solar obstructions or are external solar obstructions accounted for while running a simulation for resultant zone temperatures? > > I am modelling a top floor flat and I believe that the shade from an overhead tank will cause a noticeable difference in resultant zone temperatures. Should I add a 'tank' zone to my model or will adding the tank walls as external shading suffice? > > > Regards, > Satya > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r achim.geissler at intergga.ch From francesco.frontini at gmail.com Sat May 11 20:10:49 2013 From: francesco.frontini at gmail.com (Francesco Frontini) Date: Sat, 11 May 2013 21:10:49 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Radiance coupling and control of BSDF shadings Message-ID: Dear Arianna, dear all, sorry if I jump into the discussion so late, if you want to simulate the effect of shading system on daylighting and energy demand (cooling and heating), taking also into account the internal gains due to artificial lighting, you may want to take a look at this works: http://www.ibpsa.org/proceedings/BS2011/P_1833.pdf and at: *ibpsa*.org/proceedings/BS*2009*/BS09_0928_935.pdf and http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0378778810002318 If you need further information please do not hesitate to contact me. Regards Francesco *Institute for Applied Sustainability to the Built Environment (ISAAC)* *Swiss BiPV competence Center* Francesco Frontini *Head of BIPV group * Campus Trevano CH-6952 Canobbio T: +41 (0)58 666 63 20 M: +41 (0) 762754279 F: +41 (0)58 666 63 49 francesco.frontini at supsi.ch www.supsi.ch/isaac www.bipv.ch -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130511/0ebf5e60/attachment.html From ringo.satyarr at gmail.com Sun May 12 19:41:35 2013 From: ringo.satyarr at gmail.com (Satya) Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 00:11:35 +0530 Subject: [esp-r] Internal transparent surfaces Message-ID: Hi, I have modelled open doorways between zones as transparent doors made of a fictitious material. Will this take care of radiative heat transfer between walls of different zones? Regards, Satya -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130513/7e909f26/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Mon May 13 06:53:54 2013 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 06:53:54 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: CFD NaNs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA41301C9A9821108@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> A thought on this - there is an exceptionally thin accounting layer adjacent to the boundary of a CFD domain with a thickness set via the parameter SMALL. I had a problem with several small values being multiplied in setting up the volumes of cells. If the diffuser is at the boundary it might be 8e+11 results from a division by that small layer thickness. Perhaps changing small in cfdat from E-20 to something like E-12 might impact TEf. Regards, Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Andrew Cowie [cn06arc at leeds.ac.uk] Sent: 10 May 2013 20:33 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Re: CFD NaNs Hi all, I've tracked the problem to MODED line 1783 (called from CALCED). The first Inf is occuring because TEf(i,j,k) is about 8e+11, i take it this is not meant to go this high? I can't make heads nor tail of the code to work out what TEf actually is, does anyone know? And does anyone know why this might be happening? It is occuring at a node adjacent to the inlet, so im guessing it has something to do with the diffuser modelling. However i've played around with the gridding geometry and it doesnt seem to make much difference. If anyone has any ideas at all please do contact me, i have a conference paper deadline in a week and no results now because of this problem. I don't really have any other option but to have some kind of diffuser in there, and i need to keep the gridding quite coarse to keep computation time down. Thanks in anticipation, (and a little desperately) Andy Cowie _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Mon May 13 07:02:21 2013 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 07:02:21 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Internal transparent surfaces In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA41301C9A9821109@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> Using a fictitious material for an open door will let the short wave radiation pass. The high conductivity of fictitious will also allow heat to pass efficiently if there is a temperature difference. Long-wave radiation does not directly pass through a fictitious material. If the door is not very large the impact is small. An open door often is associated with the movement of air. If there is likely to be mixing between the two rooms then consider imposing a 'ventilation' rate between the two rooms via the zone operation file or using a mass flow network to calculate the mixing. Regards, Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Satya [ringo.satyarr at gmail.com] Sent: 12 May 2013 19:41 To: ESP-r Users' Club Subject: [esp-r] Internal transparent surfaces Hi, I have modelled open doorways between zones as transparent doors made of a fictitious material. Will this take care of radiative heat transfer between walls of different zones? Regards, Satya From daniello at stud.ntnu.no Mon May 13 09:50:57 2013 From: daniello at stud.ntnu.no (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Daniel_L=F8chen_Slobodinski?=) Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 10:50:57 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Setting a constant heat transfer coefficient Message-ID: Hey everybody! I am struggeling to find out how one can set a constant heat transfer coefficient on a given surface. Could anyone explain the steps how to do this? Thanks in advance! Daniel Slobodinski From achim.geissler at intergga.ch Mon May 13 21:56:51 2013 From: achim.geissler at intergga.ch (Achim Geissler) Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 22:56:51 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Setting a constant heat transfer coefficient In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Daniel in "Browse/Edit/Simulate":"Composition":"convection coefficient" you can choose the zone you want to set up the (convective) coefficients for. The actual procedure is quite self-explanatory, then. Note that it is not possible to define an overall heat transfer coefficient, only the convective part (which you can set constant, however). To get around this "limitation", you could define the emissivity of your surface materials to a value close to zero to "turn off" radiation exchange. Then, the convective coefficient would be the "overall" heat transfer coefficient (not that I have ever tried this). Best Achim On May 13, 2013, at 10:50 AM, Daniel L?chen Slobodinski wrote: > Hey everybody! > > I am struggeling to find out how one can set a constant heat transfer coefficient on a given surface. > Could anyone explain the steps how to do this? > > Thanks in advance! > > > Daniel Slobodinski > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > achim.geissler at intergga.ch From cheard at prodigy.net.mx Tue May 14 18:19:44 2013 From: cheard at prodigy.net.mx (Christopher Heard) Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 12:19:44 -0500 Subject: [esp-r] multi sensor control law example Message-ID: Trawling the mailing list I thought that I had found an answer to my needs vis: [esp-r] Re: for the network control Jon Hand jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Fri Feb 26 05:45:23 GMT 2010 "Look for flow law 'multi sensor on/off' an example of this is included in the exemplar cellular_hybrid" My wife insists that I am bad at finding things, but I have searched the examples that come with the Windows Native installation - upto date as of February 2013 and am convinced that the aforementioned example isn't there at least under that name. Where can I find it or another example of "multi sensor on/off" control? At present I get an CFFVAR: mass flow control function CFFVAR invalid mass flow sensed external condition 1 day type 1 period 3 ctl file: no overall control description supplied * Mass Flow window opening 1 1 # No. of controls * Control mass 1 # sensors are nodes Downstairs ( 1) & Downstairs ( 1) -4 1 1 0 # sensor data # actuates flow connection: 11 SouthDown - Downstairs via ktchwndOpn -3 11 0 # actuator data 0 # day types follow calendar 4 1 365 # valid Mon-01-Jan - Mon-31-Dec 4 # No. of periods in day: weekdays 1 0 0.000 # ctl type (dry bulb > flow), law (on/off setpoint 100.00 direct action ON fraction 0.000.), starting @ 3. # No. of data items 100.00000 1.00000 0.00000 1 3 6.000 # ctl type (dry bulb > flow), law (multi-sensor: normally closed with 2 sensors: For sensor 1 sense node Downstairs setpoint 21.00 direct action AND sensor 2 ambient T setpoint 21.00 inverse action.), starting @ 18. # No. of data items 0.00000 2.00000 -4.00000 1.00000 0.00000 0.00000 21.00000 1.00000 0.00000 1.00000 -3.00000 0.00000 0.00000 0.00000 21.00000 -1.00000 0.00000 1.00000 1 0 10.000 # ctl type (dry bulb > flow), law (on/off setpoint 100.00 direct action ON fraction 0.000.), starting @ 3. # No. of data items 100.00000 1.00000 0.00000 1 3 16.000 # ctl type (dry bulb > flow), law (multi-sensor: normally closed with 2 sensors: For sensor 1 sense node Downstairs setpoint 21.00 direct action AND sensor 2 ambient T setpoint 21.00 inverse action.), starting @ 18. # No. of data items 0.00000 2.00000 -4.00000 1.00000 0.00000 0.00000 21.00000 1.00000 0.00000 1.00000 -3.00000 0.00000 0.00000 0.00000 21.00000 -1.00000 0.00000 1.00000 1 365 # valid Mon-01-Jan - Mon-31-Dec 3 # No. of periods in day: saturday 1 0 0.000 # ctl type (dry bulb > flow), law (on/off setpoint 0.00 direct action ON fraction 0.000.), starting @ 2. # No. of data items 0.00000 1.00000 1 0 9.000 # ctl type (dry bulb > flow), law (on/off setpoint 0.00 direct action ON fraction 0.000.), starting @ 2. # No. of data items 0.00000 1.00000 1 0 21.000 # ctl type (dry bulb > flow), law (on/off setpoint 0.00 direct action ON fraction 0.000.), starting @ 2. # No. of data items 0.00000 1.00000 1 365 # valid Mon-01-Jan - Mon-31-Dec 3 # No. of periods in day: sunday 1 0 0.000 # ctl type (dry bulb > flow), law (on/off setpoint 0.00 direct action ON fraction 0.000.), starting @ 2. # No. of data items 0.00000 1.00000 1 0 9.000 # ctl type (dry bulb > flow), law (on/off setpoint 0.00 direct action ON fraction 0.000.), starting @ 2. # No. of data items 0.00000 1.00000 1 0 21.000 # ctl type (dry bulb > flow), law (on/off setpoint 0.00 direct action ON fraction 0.000.), starting @ 2. # No. of data items 0.00000 1.00000 1 365 # valid Mon-01-Jan - Mon-31-Dec 3 # No. of periods in day: holiday 1 0 0.000 # ctl type (dry bulb > flow), law (on/off setpoint 0.00 direct action ON fraction 0.000.), starting @ 2. # No. of data items 0.00000 1.00000 1 0 9.000 # ctl type (dry bulb > flow), law (on/off setpoint 0.00 direct action ON fraction 0.000.), starting @ 2. # No. of data items 0.00000 1.00000 1 0 21.000 # ctl type (dry bulb > flow), law (on/off setpoint 0.00 direct action ON fraction 0.000.), starting @ 2. # No. of data items 0.00000 1.00000 Christopher Heard From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Wed May 15 07:14:40 2013 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Wed, 15 May 2013 07:14:40 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: multi sensor control law example In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA41301C9A982111A@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> There is an exemplar model which uses a multi-sensor mass flow control in a folder with the name training/cellular_hybrid. It exists in the Linux distribution folder as well as on my most recent native windows build under C:/Esru/esp-r/training/cellular_hybrid. If you want to play with an exemplar but do not see if in the list provided i n the project manager (sometimes a model folder contains many variants) then just copy the cellular_hybrid folder to a safe location and double click on the model cfg file. I did a quick search for the phrase 'multi-sensor' on my Linux box and that seems to be the only exemplar model with that kind of flow control. The flow control can be quite powerful with a multi-sensor. I have used these in consulting jobs to enable window opening strategies e.g. open window if the outside temperature is over 15C AND less than 24C AND the inside temperature is greater than 24C. In case it helps, here is a link to a native windows installer for the development_branch revision 9181 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/17785121/ESPr_Installers/ESP-r_setup_native_windows_w7_v12_0_9181.exe Regards, Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Christopher Heard [cheard at prodigy.net.mx] Sent: 14 May 2013 18:19 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] multi sensor control law example Trawling the mailing list I thought that I had found an answer to my needs vis: [esp-r] Re: for the network control Jon Hand jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Fri Feb 26 05:45:23 GMT 2010 "Look for flow law 'multi sensor on/off' an example of this is included in the exemplar cellular_hybrid" My wife insists that I am bad at finding things, but I have searched the examples that come with the Windows Native installation - upto date as of February 2013 and am convinced that the aforementioned example isn't there at least under that name. Where can I find it or another example of "multi sensor on/off" control? At present I get an CFFVAR: mass flow control function CFFVAR invalid mass flow sensed external condition 1 day type 1 period 3 ctl file: no overall control description supplied * Mass Flow window opening 1 1 # No. of controls * Control mass 1 # sensors are nodes Downstairs ( 1) & Downstairs ( 1) -4 1 1 0 # sensor data # actuates flow connection: 11 SouthDown - Downstairs via ktchwndOpn -3 11 0 # actuator data 0 # day types follow calendar 4 1 365 # valid Mon-01-Jan - Mon-31-Dec 4 # No. of periods in day: weekdays 1 0 0.000 # ctl type (dry bulb > flow), law (on/off setpoint 100.00 direct action ON fraction 0.000.), starting @ 3. # No. of data items 100.00000 1.00000 0.00000 1 3 6.000 # ctl type (dry bulb > flow), law (multi-sensor: normally closed with 2 sensors: For sensor 1 sense node Downstairs setpoint 21.00 direct action AND sensor 2 ambient T setpoint 21.00 inverse action.), starting @ 18. # No. of data items 0.00000 2.00000 -4.00000 1.00000 0.00000 0.00000 21.00000 1.00000 0.00000 1.00000 -3.00000 0.00000 0.00000 0.00000 21.00000 -1.00000 0.00000 1.00000 1 0 10.000 # ctl type (dry bulb > flow), law (on/off setpoint 100.00 direct action ON fraction 0.000.), starting @ 3. # No. of data items 100.00000 1.00000 0.00000 1 3 16.000 # ctl type (dry bulb > flow), law (multi-sensor: normally closed with 2 sensors: For sensor 1 sense node Downstairs setpoint 21.00 direct action AND sensor 2 ambient T setpoint 21.00 inverse action.), starting @ 18. # No. of data items 0.00000 2.00000 -4.00000 1.00000 0.00000 0.00000 21.00000 1.00000 0.00000 1.00000 -3.00000 0.00000 0.00000 0.00000 21.00000 -1.00000 0.00000 1.00000 1 365 # valid Mon-01-Jan - Mon-31-Dec 3 # No. of periods in day: saturday 1 0 0.000 # ctl type (dry bulb > flow), law (on/off setpoint 0.00 direct action ON fraction 0.000.), starting @ 2. # No. of data items 0.00000 1.00000 1 0 9.000 # ctl type (dry bulb > flow), law (on/off setpoint 0.00 direct action ON fraction 0.000.), starting @ 2. # No. of data items 0.00000 1.00000 1 0 21.000 # ctl type (dry bulb > flow), law (on/off setpoint 0.00 direct action ON fraction 0.000.), starting @ 2. # No. of data items 0.00000 1.00000 1 365 # valid Mon-01-Jan - Mon-31-Dec 3 # No. of periods in day: sunday 1 0 0.000 # ctl type (dry bulb > flow), law (on/off setpoint 0.00 direct action ON fraction 0.000.), starting @ 2. # No. of data items 0.00000 1.00000 1 0 9.000 # ctl type (dry bulb > flow), law (on/off setpoint 0.00 direct action ON fraction 0.000.), starting @ 2. # No. of data items 0.00000 1.00000 1 0 21.000 # ctl type (dry bulb > flow), law (on/off setpoint 0.00 direct action ON fraction 0.000.), starting @ 2. # No. of data items 0.00000 1.00000 1 365 # valid Mon-01-Jan - Mon-31-Dec 3 # No. of periods in day: holiday 1 0 0.000 # ctl type (dry bulb > flow), law (on/off setpoint 0.00 direct action ON fraction 0.000.), starting @ 2. # No. of data items 0.00000 1.00000 1 0 9.000 # ctl type (dry bulb > flow), law (on/off setpoint 0.00 direct action ON fraction 0.000.), starting @ 2. # No. of data items 0.00000 1.00000 1 0 21.000 # ctl type (dry bulb > flow), law (on/off setpoint 0.00 direct action ON fraction 0.000.), starting @ 2. # No. of data items 0.00000 1.00000 Christopher Heard _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From aizaz.a.samuel at strath.ac.uk Wed May 15 09:35:06 2013 From: aizaz.a.samuel at strath.ac.uk (Aizaz Samuel) Date: Wed, 15 May 2013 09:35:06 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: multi sensor control law example In-Reply-To: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA41301C9A982111A@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> References: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA41301C9A982111A@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> Message-ID: <519348BA.9050303@strath.ac.uk> Christopher, You may also want to look at the global multi-sensor controller which has been implemented for flow control. This control senses the state of flow controllers (not temperature, pressure etc) and works in the following way (assuming you want to control the "connection in question"): 1. In the flow network you define trivial connections (that do not affect the simulation much if they are open or shut -- small cracks etc) 2. Control these using flow controllers sensing parameters that you want to use to control the "connection in question". 3. Define a global multi-sensing controller, this controller senses the state of the control loops of (1) and actuates the "connection in question" based on the state of the flow side controllers being on AND/OR off Regards, Aizaz On 15/05/13 07:14, Jon Hand wrote: > There is an exemplar model which uses a multi-sensor mass flow control > in a folder with the name training/cellular_hybrid. It exists in the Linux > distribution folder as well as on my most recent native windows build > under C:/Esru/esp-r/training/cellular_hybrid. > > If you want to play with an exemplar but do not see if in the list provided i > n the project manager (sometimes a model folder contains many variants) > then just copy the cellular_hybrid folder to a safe location and double > click on the model cfg file. > > I did a quick search for the phrase 'multi-sensor' on my Linux box and > that seems to be the only exemplar model with that kind of flow control. > > The flow control can be quite powerful with a multi-sensor. I have used > these in consulting jobs to enable window opening strategies e.g. > open window if the outside temperature is over 15C AND less than 24C > AND the inside temperature is greater than 24C. > > In case it helps, here is a link to a native windows installer for the > development_branch revision 9181 > > https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/17785121/ESPr_Installers/ESP-r_setup_native_windows_w7_v12_0_9181.exe > > Regards, Jon Hand > > > ________________________________________ > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Christopher Heard [cheard at prodigy.net.mx] > Sent: 14 May 2013 18:19 > To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Subject: [esp-r] multi sensor control law example > > Trawling the mailing list I thought that I had found an answer to my needs > > vis: > [esp-r] Re: for the network control > Jon Hand jon at esru.strath.ac.uk > Fri Feb 26 05:45:23 GMT 2010 > > "Look for flow law 'multi sensor on/off' an example > of this is included in the exemplar cellular_hybrid" > > My wife insists that I am bad at finding things, but I have searched the > examples that come with the Windows Native installation - upto date as of > February 2013 and am convinced that the aforementioned example isn't there > at least under that name. > > Where can I find it or another example of "multi sensor on/off" control? > > At present I get an > CFFVAR: mass flow control function > CFFVAR invalid mass flow sensed external condition 1 day type 1 period 3 > > ctl file: > > no overall control description supplied > * Mass Flow > window opening 1 > 1 # No. of controls > * Control mass 1 > # sensors are nodes Downstairs ( 1) & Downstairs ( 1) > -4 1 1 0 # sensor data > # actuates flow connection: 11 SouthDown - Downstairs via ktchwndOpn > -3 11 0 # actuator data > 0 # day types follow calendar 4 > 1 365 # valid Mon-01-Jan - Mon-31-Dec > 4 # No. of periods in day: weekdays > 1 0 0.000 # ctl type (dry bulb > flow), law (on/off setpoint > 100.00 direct action ON fraction 0.000.), starting @ > 3. # No. of data items > 100.00000 1.00000 0.00000 > 1 3 6.000 # ctl type (dry bulb > flow), law (multi-sensor: > normally closed with 2 sensors: For sensor 1 sense node Downstairs setpoint > 21.00 direct action AND sensor 2 ambient T setpoint 21.00 inverse action.), > starting @ > 18. # No. of data items > 0.00000 2.00000 -4.00000 1.00000 0.00000 0.00000 21.00000 1.00000 0.00000 > 1.00000 -3.00000 0.00000 0.00000 0.00000 21.00000 -1.00000 0.00000 > 1.00000 > 1 0 10.000 # ctl type (dry bulb > flow), law (on/off setpoint > 100.00 direct action ON fraction 0.000.), starting @ > 3. # No. of data items > 100.00000 1.00000 0.00000 > 1 3 16.000 # ctl type (dry bulb > flow), law (multi-sensor: > normally closed with 2 sensors: For sensor 1 sense node Downstairs setpoint > 21.00 direct action AND sensor 2 ambient T setpoint 21.00 inverse action.), > starting @ > 18. # No. of data items > 0.00000 2.00000 -4.00000 1.00000 0.00000 0.00000 21.00000 1.00000 0.00000 > 1.00000 -3.00000 0.00000 0.00000 0.00000 21.00000 -1.00000 0.00000 > 1.00000 > 1 365 # valid Mon-01-Jan - Mon-31-Dec > 3 # No. of periods in day: saturday > 1 0 0.000 # ctl type (dry bulb > flow), law (on/off setpoint 0.00 > direct action ON fraction 0.000.), starting @ > 2. # No. of data items > 0.00000 1.00000 > 1 0 9.000 # ctl type (dry bulb > flow), law (on/off setpoint 0.00 > direct action ON fraction 0.000.), starting @ > 2. # No. of data items > 0.00000 1.00000 > 1 0 21.000 # ctl type (dry bulb > flow), law (on/off setpoint 0.00 > direct action ON fraction 0.000.), starting @ > 2. # No. of data items > 0.00000 1.00000 > 1 365 # valid Mon-01-Jan - Mon-31-Dec > 3 # No. of periods in day: sunday > 1 0 0.000 # ctl type (dry bulb > flow), law (on/off setpoint 0.00 > direct action ON fraction 0.000.), starting @ > 2. # No. of data items > 0.00000 1.00000 > 1 0 9.000 # ctl type (dry bulb > flow), law (on/off setpoint 0.00 > direct action ON fraction 0.000.), starting @ > 2. # No. of data items > 0.00000 1.00000 > 1 0 21.000 # ctl type (dry bulb > flow), law (on/off setpoint 0.00 > direct action ON fraction 0.000.), starting @ > 2. # No. of data items > 0.00000 1.00000 > 1 365 # valid Mon-01-Jan - Mon-31-Dec > 3 # No. of periods in day: holiday > 1 0 0.000 # ctl type (dry bulb > flow), law (on/off setpoint 0.00 > direct action ON fraction 0.000.), starting @ > 2. # No. of data items > 0.00000 1.00000 > 1 0 9.000 # ctl type (dry bulb > flow), law (on/off setpoint 0.00 > direct action ON fraction 0.000.), starting @ > 2. # No. of data items > 0.00000 1.00000 > 1 0 21.000 # ctl type (dry bulb > flow), law (on/off setpoint 0.00 > direct action ON fraction 0.000.), starting @ > 2. # No. of data items > 0.00000 1.00000 > > Christopher Heard > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From gulgugul at yahoo.com.tr Fri May 17 14:29:12 2013 From: gulgugul at yahoo.com.tr (=?utf-8?B?R8O8bCBuLiBHw7zEn8O8bA==?=) Date: Fri, 17 May 2013 14:29:12 +0100 (BST) Subject: [esp-r] The materials arrays are incomplete Message-ID: <1368797352.18659.YahooMailNeo@web172204.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Hi, ? When I am simulating model I get this error "CONINF: The materials arrays are incomplete so this report is not available" ? Thanks for any help ? Gul -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130517/a7fc94b3/attachment.html From ringo.satyarr at gmail.com Sun May 19 16:10:59 2013 From: ringo.satyarr at gmail.com (Satya) Date: Sun, 19 May 2013 20:40:59 +0530 Subject: [esp-r] Type casting custom climate file Message-ID: Hi, I have created a custom weather file for ESP-r simulations and done the 'import from text' using the clm module. I wish to use this same climate profile in an EnergyPlus simulation but EP offers to convert only '.esp-r' and '.clm' files into the .epw format. Any ideas on how else I could convert the attached file into a format that works with EP? Thanks Satya -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130519/6f9b0207/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 00_bom Type: application/octet-stream Size: 5747 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130519/6f9b0207/attachment.obj From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Mon May 20 11:19:59 2013 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 11:19:59 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: The materials arrays are incomplete In-Reply-To: <1368797352.18659.YahooMailNeo@web172204.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> References: <1368797352.18659.YahooMailNeo@web172204.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA41301C9A982111F@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> A question about materials.... This warning message is generated in a call to subroutine CONINF in esrucom/econstr.F. It generates the warning if the materials materials database is not recognized. This might happen if the model points to an ancient binary form of the materials database or that file is corrupt and resulted in a failure of ESP-r to have access to the raw materials properties. For some models this warning is not critical for actually running a simulation but if you ever tried to modify the model you would have lots of trouble. Suggest that you look in the databases menu and see if you can view the information about materials. Also - what version of ESP-r are you using? What operating system are you running on your computer? Does this message happen with other models? Regards, Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of G?l n. G???l [gulgugul at yahoo.com.tr] Sent: 17 May 2013 14:29 To: ESP-r Users' Club Subject: [esp-r] The materials arrays are incomplete Hi, When I am simulating model I get this error "CONINF: The materials arrays are incomplete so this report is not available" Thanks for any help Gul From cheard at correo.cua.uam.mx Mon May 20 20:34:55 2013 From: cheard at correo.cua.uam.mx (Christopher Heard) Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 14:34:55 -0500 Subject: [esp-r] Scales of vertical axis when graphing in ESP-r Results Analysis Tool: native windows w7 v12 0 9181 and 9030 Message-ID: <01E0EC8A278D420DBD4F269CEF0E134A@cheard> When using the results analysis tool the vertical axis scales are wrong at least for graphs of air flow network node temperatures and mass flows w.r.t. time. If I list the data I can see that the values don't correspond to the graph axis scale although the suggested range is correct the graph is displaced upwards by quite a bit. Resetting the scale to a much higher upper limit brings the graphs into view on the screen but if the lower limit is raised the graph disappears off the top of the screen again. e.g. Temperature data with a range of 8 to 30 deg C. will be visible with an axis range set to 0 to 100 deg C and an apparent range of approx. 70 to 90 deg C. However if the axis scale is set to 70 to 90 deg C the graph disappears. The node flow rate graphs behave in a similar manner. O.S.: Windows XP SP3 Hardware: Macbook Pro 17" early 2008 Intel core 2 duo T9500 @ 2.6 GHz, 1.98GB ram 1920 x 1200 pixel display I imagine that this is a special feature to punish Windows users for not using an operating system for adults! For those who are curious - I use Windows because there is no recent version of Wordperfect, Quattro Pro or Corel Presentations for OS X. Christopher Heard From gulgugul at yahoo.com.tr Tue May 21 14:47:58 2013 From: gulgugul at yahoo.com.tr (=?utf-8?B?R8O8bCBuLiBHw7zEn8O8bA==?=) Date: Tue, 21 May 2013 14:47:58 +0100 (BST) Subject: [esp-r] Yan: Re: The materials arrays are incomplete In-Reply-To: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA41301C9A982111F@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> References: <1368797352.18659.YahooMailNeo@web172204.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA41301C9A982111F@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> Message-ID: <1369144078.65822.YahooMailNeo@web172205.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Hi, ? I get same error with other models. I look in the databases menu and I could view the information about materials. My operating system is ubuntu 11.10 ? Thank you ________________________________ Kimden: Jon Hand Kime: G?l n. G???l ; "ESP-r Users' Club" G?nderildi?i Tarih: 20 May?s 2013 7:19 Pazartesi Konu: [esp-r] Re: The materials arrays are incomplete A question about materials.... This warning message is generated in a call to subroutine CONINF in esrucom/econstr.F.? It generates the warning if the materials materials database is not recognized.? This might happen if the model points to an ancient binary form of the materials database or that file is corrupt and resulted in a failure of ESP-r to have access to the raw materials properties. For some models this warning is not critical for actually running a simulation but if you ever tried to modify the model you would have lots of trouble. Suggest that you look in the databases menu and see if you can view the information about materials. Also - what version of ESP-r are you using?? What operating system are you running on your computer? Does this message happen with other models? Regards, Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of G?l n. G???l [gulgugul at yahoo.com.tr] Sent: 17 May 2013 14:29 To: ESP-r Users' Club Subject: [esp-r]? The materials arrays are incomplete Hi, When I am simulating model I get this error "CONINF: The materials arrays are incomplete so this report is not available" Thanks for any help Gul _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130521/286129f4/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Thu May 23 09:42:33 2013 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 09:42:33 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Scales of vertical axis when graphing in ESP-r Results Analysis Tool: native windows w7 v12 0 9181 and 9030 In-Reply-To: <01E0EC8A278D420DBD4F269CEF0E134A@cheard> References: <01E0EC8A278D420DBD4F269CEF0E134A@cheard> Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA41301C9A9821131@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> A question about axis scales in the results analysis tool... There are two graphic libraries which can be used by ESP-r. The traditional X11 tool set works on OSX and Linux and under Cygwin (not native Windows) while the GTK tool set can be used on all computer platforms. In some cases the response to sizing/re-sizing of the graphics window is an issue with GTK. There are occasional glitches plotting mass flow data. Sometime if you exit from the mass flow display facility and re-enter it the problem is fixed, sometimes it is the combination of what is being drawn. We will add this to the list of stuff to check. A few screen shots of the display might help with debug activities. -Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Christopher Heard [cheard at correo.cua.uam.mx] Sent: 20 May 2013 20:34 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Scales of vertical axis when graphing in ESP-r Results Analysis Tool: native windows w7 v12 0 9181 and 9030 When using the results analysis tool the vertical axis scales are wrong at least for graphs of air flow network node temperatures and mass flows w.r.t. time. If I list the data I can see that the values don't correspond to the graph axis scale although the suggested range is correct the graph is displaced upwards by quite a bit. Resetting the scale to a much higher upper limit brings the graphs into view on the screen but if the lower limit is raised the graph disappears off the top of the screen again. e.g. Temperature data with a range of 8 to 30 deg C. will be visible with an axis range set to 0 to 100 deg C and an apparent range of approx. 70 to 90 deg C. However if the axis scale is set to 70 to 90 deg C the graph disappears. The node flow rate graphs behave in a similar manner. O.S.: Windows XP SP3 Hardware: Macbook Pro 17" early 2008 Intel core 2 duo T9500 @ 2.6 GHz, 1.98GB ram 1920 x 1200 pixel display I imagine that this is a special feature to punish Windows users for not using an operating system for adults! For those who are curious - I use Windows because there is no recent version of Wordperfect, Quattro Pro or Corel Presentations for OS X. Christopher Heard _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From ringo.satyarr at gmail.com Thu May 23 10:44:38 2013 From: ringo.satyarr at gmail.com (Satya) Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 15:14:38 +0530 Subject: [esp-r] Viewing time series results Message-ID: Hi, I have run a simulation and I am able to view the graphical plot of varying zone resultant temperatures within the results module. However, I wish to access the database containing the resultant zone temperatures calculated at each time step. Also, I need to view the temperature variations within each zone individually, not all together like it is in the res module. I gather that this data is stored within a .grt file, how do I export the data into a spreadsheet program? Thanks Satya -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130523/2d72b4f7/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Thu May 23 11:22:09 2013 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 11:22:09 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Viewing time series results In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA41301C9A9821135@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> There is an option in the res application to select one or several or all zones for graphing. The same options apply for the export of columns of time step information. The newest versions of ESP-r have an option which sets the timestamp at each time step of the export to a format which is better understood by spreadsheets. There is a chapter in the ESP-r Cookbook that discusses uses of the res application and the different types of output and how to export to spreadsheets. -Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Satya [ringo.satyarr at gmail.com] Sent: 23 May 2013 10:44 To: ESP-r Users' Club Subject: [esp-r] Viewing time series results Hi, I have run a simulation and I am able to view the graphical plot of varying zone resultant temperatures within the results module. However, I wish to access the database containing the resultant zone temperatures calculated at each time step. Also, I need to view the temperature variations within each zone individually, not all together like it is in the res module. I gather that this data is stored within a .grt file, how do I export the data into a spreadsheet program? Thanks Satya From dimitrios.sfakianakis at strath.ac.uk Thu May 23 15:48:17 2013 From: dimitrios.sfakianakis at strath.ac.uk (Dimitrios Sfakianakis) Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 14:48:17 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Exhaust air converging from more than two zones. Message-ID: <4388279F55D3434CACAFE7985985B319BE44@EX2010-MBX1.ds.strath.ac.uk> Dear list, I have a model with 10 zones and have set up a plant component network comprised by a mixing box, cooler, heater and a fan (much like the 'Component based HVAC' exemplar) . Air is supplied and exhausted from each zone and converges to a mixing box (converge) where a temperature sensor is located, according to which the operation of the heater and the cooler are controlled. Since the mixing box component only has two inlets I cannot use it to converge multiple exhaust ducts. Is there a way to converge all exhaust ducts to a single mixing box component in order to sense an 'average' temperature? Kind regards, - Dimitrios Sfakianakis -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130523/f298bf4b/attachment.html From achim.geissler at fhnw.ch Thu May 23 18:05:17 2013 From: achim.geissler at fhnw.ch (Geissler Achim) Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 17:05:17 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Exhaust air converging from more than two zones. In-Reply-To: <4388279F55D3434CACAFE7985985B319BE44@EX2010-MBX1.ds.strath.ac.uk> References: <4388279F55D3434CACAFE7985985B319BE44@EX2010-MBX1.ds.strath.ac.uk> Message-ID: Dear Dimitrios a possible solution is to define the mixing box as a thermal zone and connect this to your plant as desired. Cheers Achim Von: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] Im Auftrag von Dimitrios Sfakianakis Gesendet: Donnerstag, 23. Mai 2013 16:48 An: 'esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk' Betreff: [esp-r] Exhaust air converging from more than two zones. Dear list, I have a model with 10 zones and have set up a plant component network comprised by a mixing box, cooler, heater and a fan (much like the 'Component based HVAC' exemplar) . Air is supplied and exhausted from each zone and converges to a mixing box (converge) where a temperature sensor is located, according to which the operation of the heater and the cooler are controlled. Since the mixing box component only has two inlets I cannot use it to converge multiple exhaust ducts. Is there a way to converge all exhaust ducts to a single mixing box component in order to sense an 'average' temperature? Kind regards, - Dimitrios Sfakianakis -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130523/b1b52d88/attachment.html From adamwills at cmail.carleton.ca Thu May 23 21:16:21 2013 From: adamwills at cmail.carleton.ca (Adam Wills) Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 16:16:21 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] Failed Simulations in tester In-Reply-To: <519E780D.1090405@cmail.carleton.ca> References: <519E780D.1090405@cmail.carleton.ca> Message-ID: <519E7915.2040900@cmail.carleton.ca> Hello Everyone, I have been attempting to run the tester scripts for some time now. When I try to create a results archive with tester using a clean version of development_branch, I have a few test cases which crash. I will provide details for how I compiled the branch, ran tester, and the problems I have encountered. I checked out development_branch @r9232 and launched Cygwin on my Windows XP machine. I compiled ESP-r using the following command: ./Install -d /usr/esru/development_branch/ --xml --no_training --extra-debug --silent Out of habit, I have been using the --extra-debug switch. Once ESP-r compiled, I navigated to tester/scripts and issued the following command: ./tester.pl -v --databases /usr/esru/development_branch/esp-r /usr/esru/development_branch/esp-r/bin/bps --ref_loc /usr/esru/development_branch/esp-r/bin/ --test_loc /usr/esru/development_branch/esp-r/bin/ --create_historical_archive ESRU_dev_cyg.tar.gz Tester runs to completion with most test cases running without issue. However, I get the following errors: ls: cannot access /home/Adam/development_branch/tester/scripts/ESRU_dev_cyg/Annex42_fuel_cell/SOFC_constant/*SL5_test.*: No such file or directory ls: cannot access /home/Adam/development_branch/tester/scripts/ESRU_dev_cyg/bld_hc_ISO15099/HC/*SL5_test.*: No such file or directory ls: cannot access /home/Adam/development_branch/tester/scripts/ESRU_dev_cyg/bld_hc_ISO15099/HC_no-ISO/*SL5_test.*: No such file or directory ls: cannot access /home/Adam/development_branch/tester/scripts/ESRU_dev_cyg/Lion_battery/Lion_battery/*SL5_test.*: No such file or directory ls: cannot access /home/Adam/development_branch/tester/scripts/ESRU_dev_cyg/plt_lookup_table/elec-follow/*SL5_test.*: No such file or directory ls: cannot access /home/Adam/development_branch/tester/scripts/ESRU_dev_cyg/NCHE_complete/NCHE_complete/*SL5_test.*: No such file or directory ls: cannot access /home/Adam/development_branch/tester/scripts/ESRU_dev_cyg/NCHE_complete_noNCHE/NCHE_complete/*SL5_test.*: No such file or directory ls: cannot access /home/Adam/development_branch/tester/scripts/ESRU_dev_cyg/plt_pre_A42_PEMFC_model/ccht/*SL5_test.*: No such file or directory ls: cannot access /home/Adam/development_branch/tester/scripts/ESRU_dev_cyg/plt_SDHW/system2_strat_tank/*SL5_test.*: No such file or directory ls: cannot access /home/Adam/development_branch/tester/scripts/ESRU_dev_cyg/plt_SDHW/system3_water/*SL5_test.*: No such file or directory ls: cannot access /home/Adam/development_branch/tester/scripts/ESRU_dev_cyg/plt_SDHW/system4_50_per_cent_glycol/*SL5_test.*: No such file or directory ls: cannot access /home/Adam/development_branch/tester/scripts/ESRU_dev_cyg/plt_SDHW/system4_water/*SL5_test.*: No such file or directory ls: cannot access /home/Adam/development_branch/tester/scripts/ESRU_dev_cyg/plt_zone_heat_gain_coupling/plt_multizone_construction_gain_test/*SL5_test.*: No such file or directory ls: cannot access /home/Adam/development_branch/tester/scripts/ESRU_dev_cyg/plt_zone_heat_gain_coupling/plt_multizone_nogain_test/*SL5_test.*: No such file or directory ls: cannot access /home/Adam/development_branch/tester/scripts/ESRU_dev_cyg/plt_zone_heat_gain_coupling/plt_multizone_surface_gain_test/*SL5_test.*: No such file or directory ls: cannot access /home/Adam/development_branch/tester/scripts/ESRU_dev_cyg/plt_zone_heat_gain_coupling/plt_multizone_zone_gain_test/*SL5_test.*: No such file or directory ls: cannot access /home/Adam/development_branch/tester/scripts/ESRU_dev_cyg/window_control/bld_simple/*SL5_test.*: No such file or directory Depending on the test case, the errors were either floating point exceptions or segmentation errors. I am curious if anyone else in the community has encountered these issues or can duplicate what I have been observing. Perhaps I am just running tester incorrectly. I'm going to run tester on my Ubuntu version next. Cheers, -- Adam Wills M.A.Sc. Sustainable Building Energy Systems Laboratory Solar Energy Systems Laboratory Department of Mechanical & Aerospace Engineering Carleton University Ottawa, Canada adamwills at cmail.carleton.ca -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130523/ba2e77bb/attachment.html From ringo.satyarr at gmail.com Fri May 24 12:01:55 2013 From: ringo.satyarr at gmail.com (Satya) Date: Fri, 24 May 2013 16:31:55 +0530 Subject: [esp-r] Obstructions for multiple zones Message-ID: Hi Do solar obstructions 'belong' to an individual zone or do they belong to the entire model? Do obstructions added to the geometry of one zone affect the solar gains of other zones that might lie in its shadow? I plan to add obstructions that may effect multiple zones, do I have to add them to all the zones individually or will adding them to just one zone suffice? Thanks, Satya -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130524/a444553c/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Fri May 24 12:26:08 2013 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Fri, 24 May 2013 12:26:08 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Obstructions for multiple zones In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA41301C9A982113D@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> Solar obstructions are associated with a specific zone. Other zones will not know about obstructions unless you include the obstruction description into the other zones description. If you have obstructions which impact several zones the current work-around is to open up the zone geometry files (or zone obstruction files in older versions) in a TEXT EDITOR (not a word processor) and copy and paste the relevant obstruction blocks. -Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Satya [ringo.satyarr at gmail.com] Sent: 24 May 2013 12:01 To: ESP-r Users' Club Subject: [esp-r] Obstructions for multiple zones Hi Do solar obstructions 'belong' to an individual zone or do they belong to the entire model? Do obstructions added to the geometry of one zone affect the solar gains of other zones that might lie in its shadow? I plan to add obstructions that may effect multiple zones, do I have to add them to all the zones individually or will adding them to just one zone suffice? Thanks, Satya From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Fri May 24 14:07:09 2013 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Fri, 24 May 2013 14:07:09 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Failed Simulations in tester In-Reply-To: <519E7915.2040900@cmail.carleton.ca> References: <519E780D.1090405@cmail.carleton.ca>, <519E7915.2040900@cmail.carleton.ca> Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA41301C9A9821142@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> The issue is the --extra-debug argument - this ensures that the esp-r module will crash with additional information when it detects numerical errors. And some of the tester models generate numerical faults with that compiler flag. For use with tester you should issue a 'make clean' and then just use the --debug option when installing. The SL5_test not found does happen sometimes. Recently I have been moving away from running tester.pl with the --create_historical_archive option My approach is to compile a fresh development_branch to /usr/esru (place sensitive is tester) and my test branch somewhere else. I then ask tester to run both the standard and test version: ./tester.pl -v --no_h3k /usr/esru/esp-r/bin/bps /home/jon/esru_test/esp-r/bin/bps --ref_loc /usr/esru/esp-r/bin --test_loc /home/jon/esru_test/esp-r/bin The -v lets me see what is happening. It generates a file bps_test_report.txt Also, tester can be a bit more robust on 32bit Linux platform than 64bit. Regards, Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Adam Wills [adamwills at cmail.carleton.ca] Sent: 23 May 2013 21:16 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Failed Simulations in tester Hello Everyone, I have been attempting to run the tester scripts for some time now. When I try to create a results archive with tester using a clean version of development_branch, I have a few test cases which crash. I will provide details for how I compiled the branch, ran tester, and the problems I have encountered. I checked out development_branch @r9232 and launched Cygwin on my Windows XP machine. I compiled ESP-r using the following command: ./Install -d /usr/esru/development_branch/ --xml --no_training --extra-debug --silent Out of habit, I have been using the --extra-debug switch. Once ESP-r compiled, I navigated to tester/scripts and issued the following command: ./tester.pl -v --databases /usr/esru/development_branch/esp-r /usr/esru/development_branch/esp-r/bin/bps --ref_loc /usr/esru/development_branch/esp-r/bin/ --test_loc /usr/esru/development_branch/esp-r/bin/ --create_historical_archive ESRU_dev_cyg.tar.gz Tester runs to completion with most test cases running without issue. However, I get the following errors: ls: cannot access /home/Adam/development_branch/tester/scripts/ESRU_dev_cyg/Annex42_fuel_cell/SOFC_constant/*SL5_test.*: No such file or directory ls: cannot access /home/Adam/development_branch/tester/scripts/ESRU_dev_cyg/bld_hc_ISO15099/HC/*SL5_test.*: No such file or directory ls: cannot access /home/Adam/development_branch/tester/scripts/ESRU_dev_cyg/bld_hc_ISO15099/HC_no-ISO/*SL5_test.*: No such file or directory ls: cannot access /home/Adam/development_branch/tester/scripts/ESRU_dev_cyg/Lion_battery/Lion_battery/*SL5_test.*: No such file or directory ls: cannot access /home/Adam/development_branch/tester/scripts/ESRU_dev_cyg/plt_lookup_table/elec-follow/*SL5_test.*: No such file or directory ls: cannot access /home/Adam/development_branch/tester/scripts/ESRU_dev_cyg/NCHE_complete/NCHE_complete/*SL5_test.*: No such file or directory ls: cannot access /home/Adam/development_branch/tester/scripts/ESRU_dev_cyg/NCHE_complete_noNCHE/NCHE_complete/*SL5_test.*: No such file or directory ls: cannot access /home/Adam/development_branch/tester/scripts/ESRU_dev_cyg/plt_pre_A42_PEMFC_model/ccht/*SL5_test.*: No such file or directory ls: cannot access /home/Adam/development_branch/tester/scripts/ESRU_dev_cyg/plt_SDHW/system2_strat_tank/*SL5_test.*: No such file or directory ls: cannot access /home/Adam/development_branch/tester/scripts/ESRU_dev_cyg/plt_SDHW/system3_water/*SL5_test.*: No such file or directory ls: cannot access /home/Adam/development_branch/tester/scripts/ESRU_dev_cyg/plt_SDHW/system4_50_per_cent_glycol/*SL5_test.*: No such file or directory ls: cannot access /home/Adam/development_branch/tester/scripts/ESRU_dev_cyg/plt_SDHW/system4_water/*SL5_test.*: No such file or directory ls: cannot access /home/Adam/development_branch/tester/scripts/ESRU_dev_cyg/plt_zone_heat_gain_coupling/plt_multizone_construction_gain_test/*SL5_test.*: No such file or directory ls: cannot access /home/Adam/development_branch/tester/scripts/ESRU_dev_cyg/plt_zone_heat_gain_coupling/plt_multizone_nogain_test/*SL5_test.*: No such file or directory ls: cannot access /home/Adam/development_branch/tester/scripts/ESRU_dev_cyg/plt_zone_heat_gain_coupling/plt_multizone_surface_gain_test/*SL5_test.*: No such file or directory ls: cannot access /home/Adam/development_branch/tester/scripts/ESRU_dev_cyg/plt_zone_heat_gain_coupling/plt_multizone_zone_gain_test/*SL5_test.*: No such file or directory ls: cannot access /home/Adam/development_branch/tester/scripts/ESRU_dev_cyg/window_control/bld_simple/*SL5_test.*: No such file or directory Depending on the test case, the errors were either floating point exceptions or segmentation errors. I am curious if anyone else in the community has encountered these issues or can duplicate what I have been observing. Perhaps I am just running tester incorrectly. I'm going to run tester on my Ubuntu version next. Cheers, -- Adam Wills M.A.Sc. Sustainable Building Energy Systems Laboratory Solar Energy Systems Laboratory Department of Mechanical & Aerospace Engineering Carleton University Ottawa, Canada adamwills at cmail.carleton.ca From ida.auraen at gmail.com Fri May 24 13:41:07 2013 From: ida.auraen at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ida_Aur=E5en?=) Date: Fri, 24 May 2013 14:41:07 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] climate and snow Message-ID: Hi, I have a question regarding climate file and snow. If you are modeling a building in a cold climate where there is snow lying on the ground a significant time of the year, will ESP-r take this into account? Snow will insulate the ground and minimize the depth of frozen ground. The snow will also reflect solar radiation well and it will contribute to more passive solar heat through windows or to solar collectors/pv-panels. Is there snow on the ground for the simulations done in ESP-r in colder climates? Best Regards Ida Aur?en -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130524/f9374c6b/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Fri May 24 14:52:16 2013 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Fri, 24 May 2013 14:52:16 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: climate and snow In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA41301C9A9821143@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> Several Canadian developers have added descriptive tags to ESP-r that deal with snow cover at several levels of detail. Perhaps someone from 'up north' will also respond to this request and suggest an example model that includes the additional tags. -Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Ida Aur?en [ida.auraen at gmail.com] Sent: 24 May 2013 13:41 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] climate and snow Hi, I have a question regarding climate file and snow. If you are modeling a building in a cold climate where there is snow lying on the ground a significant time of the year, will ESP-r take this into account? Snow will insulate the ground and minimize the depth of frozen ground. The snow will also reflect solar radiation well and it will contribute to more passive solar heat through windows or to solar collectors/pv-panels. Is there snow on the ground for the simulations done in ESP-r in colder climates? Best Regards Ida Aur?en From spitler at okstate.edu Fri May 24 16:51:39 2013 From: spitler at okstate.edu (Jeffrey D. Spitler) Date: Fri, 24 May 2013 10:51:39 -0500 Subject: [esp-r] Re: climate and snow In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <519F8C8B.9000308@okstate.edu> Ida, It has been probably 10 years since I looked at the esp-r surface heat balance and transient conduction routines for the surrounding ground. But, at that time, the answer was "no" - it did not model the effects of snow by either changing the reflectivity of the surface or by accounting for the insulating effect of snow. I strongly suspect this is the case for most or all other building simulation tools. If you are only interested in getting an answer for a particular building in a particular location, you can STOP READING HERE and hope that someone else will give you some more useful advice! But, since I am involved in related research, I have a few thoughts on the matter...and am always interested to find out that I have missed some published work in the area, don't know about an unpublished technique or method, there is a better way to do it; I am plain wrong, etc.! Then, from my perspective, the basic issues are: (1) You need to have weather data that would support this kind of calculation. I have looked at a lot of the EnergyPlus weather files for the USA and while there are fields for precipitation, in many cases they just have zero values. On the other hand, I think you mentioned ?stersund in an earlier message - I checked the IWEC-2 data file for ?stersund and it does have precipitation depth in liquid equivalents, including values for hours that are below freezing. With that, it would at least be possible to estimate when you have snow fall. I suspect one reason for the paucity of freezing precipitation data is that you need a heated rain gauge to measure precipitation "correctly" in sub-freezing conditions; heating the rain gauge can introduce other errors; at least here, automated surface observation stations tend not to have heated rain gauges because of the power requirements. That doesn't explain why there is a shortage of any precipitation data in weather files here in the USA, though. (2) From an energy calculation standpoint, a typical snowfall year is problematic for calculating heat loss from the basement or foundation. In many locations, a year with an early snowfall will have much different ground heat transfer than a year with a late snowfall. This seems to be highly random for many locations. (3) To automatically predict, in a building simulation tool, when you would have snow and how much snow would be present and what its insulating value would be, you would need a full snow accumulation/melting model. We have done this for bridge deck snow melting systems: Liu, X., S.J. Rees and J.D. Spitler. 2007. /Modeling Snow Melting on Heated Pavement Surfaces Part I: Model Development/. Journal of Applied Thermal Engineering. 27:1115-1124. Liu, X., S.J. Rees and J.D. Spitler. 2007. /Modeling Snow Melting on Heated Pavement Surfaces Part II: Experimental Validation/. Journal of Applied Thermal Engineering. 27:1125-1131. and then later applied it to look at what is needed for prediction of undisturbed ground temperatures; I view this as a precursor to predicting disturbed ground temperatures - the issues are basically the same, though we found that disturbed ground temperatures could also be influenced by shading from the building in some of our work related to foundation heat exchangers: Xu, H. and J.D. Spitler. 2011. /Importance of moisture transport, snow cover and soil freezing to ground temperature predictions./ Proceedings of the Nordic Symposium on Building Physics. May 2011. (I should also note that we found freezing and thawing in the ground to be important.) Modeling of snow accumulation and melting is computationally demanding and would take some time to implement in any building simulation program. It may well be that some clever individual has developed an approximate algorithm that is faster and "good enough". If so, I would be quite interested to hear about it. I am also very interested to hear if anyone else is involved in related research. Ida - I am sorry not to have a more immediately helpful answer. Best wishes, Jeff Spitler On 5/24/2013 7:41 AM, Ida Aur?en wrote: > > Hi, > > I have a question regarding climate file and snow. > > If you are modeling a building in a cold climate where there is snow > lying on the ground a significant time of the year, will ESP-r take > this into account? > > Snow will insulate the ground and minimize the depth of frozen ground. > The snow will also reflect solar radiation well and it will contribute > to more passive solar heat through windows or to solar > collectors/pv-panels. > > Is there snow on the ground for the simulations done in ESP-r in > colder climates? > > > Best Regards > > Ida Aur?en > > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r -- Jeffrey D. Spitler, PhD, PE Regents Professor and C.M. Leonard Professor School of Mechanical and Aerospace Engineering Oklahoma State University http://www.hvac.okstate.edu Ofc: 405-744-6578 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130524/bdee6ac4/attachment-0001.html From ida.auraen at gmail.com Sat May 25 12:01:18 2013 From: ida.auraen at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ida_Aur=E5en?=) Date: Sat, 25 May 2013 13:01:18 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: climate and snow In-Reply-To: <519F8C8B.9000308@okstate.edu> References: <519F8C8B.9000308@okstate.edu> Message-ID: Thank you all for replying! Your answers gave me the information I needed. I appreciate your help! Best Regards Ida Aur?en 2013/5/24 Jeffrey D. Spitler > Ida, > It has been probably 10 years since I looked at the esp-r surface heat > balance and transient conduction routines for the surrounding ground. But, > at that time, the answer was "no" - it did not model the effects of snow > by either changing the reflectivity of the surface or by accounting for the > insulating effect of snow. I strongly suspect this is the case for most or > all other building simulation tools. > > If you are only interested in getting an answer for a particular building > in a particular location, you can STOP READING HERE and hope that someone > else will give you some more useful advice! But, since I am involved in > related research, I have a few thoughts on the matter...and am always > interested to find out that I have missed some published work in the area, > don't know about an unpublished technique or method, there is a better way > to do it; I am plain wrong, etc.! > Then, from my perspective, the basic issues are: > > (1) You need to have weather data that would support this kind of > calculation. I have looked at a lot of the EnergyPlus weather files for > the USA and while there are fields for precipitation, in many cases they > just have zero values. On the other hand, I think you mentioned ?stersund > in an earlier message - I checked the IWEC-2 data file for ?stersund and it > does have precipitation depth in liquid equivalents, including values for > hours that are below freezing. With that, it would at least be possible to > estimate when you have snow fall. > > I suspect one reason for the paucity of freezing precipitation data is > that you need a heated rain gauge to measure precipitation "correctly" in > sub-freezing conditions; heating the rain gauge can introduce other errors; > at least here, automated surface observation stations tend not to have > heated rain gauges because of the power requirements. That doesn't explain > why there is a shortage of any precipitation data in weather files here in > the USA, though. > > (2) From an energy calculation standpoint, a typical snowfall year is > problematic for calculating heat loss from the basement or foundation. In > many locations, a year with an early snowfall will have much different > ground heat transfer than a year with a late snowfall. This seems to be > highly random for many locations. > > (3) To automatically predict, in a building simulation tool, when you > would have snow and how much snow would be present and what its insulating > value would be, you would need a full snow accumulation/melting model. We > have done this for bridge deck snow melting systems: > > Liu, X., S.J. Rees and J.D. Spitler. 2007. *Modeling Snow Melting on > Heated Pavement Surfaces Part I: Model Development*. Journal of Applied > Thermal Engineering. 27:1115-1124. **** > > Liu, X., S.J. Rees and J.D. Spitler. 2007. *Modeling Snow Melting on > Heated Pavement Surfaces Part II: Experimental Validation*. Journal of > Applied Thermal Engineering. 27:1125-1131.**** > and then later applied it to look at what is needed for prediction of > undisturbed ground temperatures; I view this as a precursor to predicting > disturbed ground temperatures - the issues are basically the same, though > we found that disturbed ground temperatures could also be influenced by > shading from the building in some of our work related to foundation heat > exchangers: > > Xu, H. and J.D. Spitler. 2011. *Importance of moisture transport, snow > cover and soil freezing to ground temperature predictions.* Proceedings > of the Nordic Symposium on Building Physics. May 2011. > (I should also note that we found freezing and thawing in the ground to > be important.) Modeling of snow accumulation and melting is > computationally demanding and would take some time to implement in any > building simulation program. It may well be that some clever individual > has developed an approximate algorithm that is faster and "good enough". > If so, I would be quite interested to hear about it. > > I am also very interested to hear if anyone else is involved in related > research. Ida - I am sorry not to have a more immediately helpful answer. > > Best wishes, > Jeff Spitler > > > **** > > > > > > > > On 5/24/2013 7:41 AM, Ida Aur?en wrote: > > Hi, > > I have a question regarding climate file and snow. > > If you are modeling a building in a cold climate where there is snow lying > on the ground a significant time of the year, will ESP-r take this into > account? > > Snow will insulate the ground and minimize the depth of frozen ground. The > snow will also reflect solar radiation well and it will contribute to more > passive solar heat through windows or to solar collectors/pv-panels. > > Is there snow on the ground for the simulations done in ESP-r in colder > climates? > > > Best Regards > > Ida Aur?en > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing listesp-r at lists.strath.ac.ukhttp://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > > > > -- > Jeffrey D. Spitler, PhD, PE > Regents Professor and C.M. Leonard Professor > School of Mechanical and Aerospace Engineering > Oklahoma State Universityhttp://www.hvac.okstate.edu > Ofc: 405-744-6578 > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130525/99e7019e/attachment.html From ida.auraen at gmail.com Sat May 25 12:08:07 2013 From: ida.auraen at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ida_Aur=E5en?=) Date: Sat, 25 May 2013 13:08:07 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Moore model BASESIMP Message-ID: Hi, I have a question regarding the Moore model in the BASESIMP configurations. When a BASESIMP configuration is defined, different inputs are required. The temperature can either be entered by the user or defined by using the Moore model. It is the average temperature of the ground, the amplitude of ground temperatures annual sine wave and the phase lag of ground temperatures sine wave that is to be defined. Does anyone know how the Moore model works? And where the defined temperature can be seen? Best Regards Ida Aur?en -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130525/75979a14/attachment.html From ringo.satyarr at gmail.com Mon May 27 12:25:59 2013 From: ringo.satyarr at gmail.com (Satya) Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 16:55:59 +0530 Subject: [esp-r] Incomplete Simulation Results Message-ID: Hi, I ran a simulation for 12 days (Feb 23 to Mar 6) with 6 warm-up days. I requested hourly data output from hour 1 of day 1 to hour 24 of day 12 but the .grt file contains values only till hour 15 of day 8. How do I correct this error? Regards, Satyajit -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130527/858dec00/attachment.html From achim.geissler at fhnw.ch Mon May 27 12:55:48 2013 From: achim.geissler at fhnw.ch (Geissler Achim) Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 11:55:48 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Incomplete Simulation Results In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear Satyajit did you "flush" the output file in res before closing res? That is, switch back from "output to file" to "output to screen". By doing this, you ensure that all data is actually written to the file and does not get lost in the "nirvana of memory". Best Achim Von: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] Im Auftrag von Satya Gesendet: Montag, 27. Mai 2013 13:26 An: ESP-r Users' Club Betreff: [esp-r] Incomplete Simulation Results Hi, I ran a simulation for 12 days (Feb 23 to Mar 6) with 6 warm-up days. I requested hourly data output from hour 1 of day 1 to hour 24 of day 12 but the .grt file contains values only till hour 15 of day 8. How do I correct this error? Regards, Satyajit -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130527/074b66a1/attachment.html From ringo.satyarr at gmail.com Mon May 27 13:55:09 2013 From: ringo.satyarr at gmail.com (Satya) Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 18:25:09 +0530 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Incomplete Simulation Results In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi 'Flushing' solved the problem. Thank you Satya On Mon, May 27, 2013 at 5:25 PM, Geissler Achim wrote: > Dear Satyajit**** > > ** ** > > did you "flush" the output file in res before closing res? That is, switch > back from "output to file" to "output to screen". By doing this, you ensure > that all data is actually written to the file and does not get lost in the > "nirvana of memory".**** > > ** ** > > Best**** > > Achim**** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > *Von:* esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strat > h.ac.uk] *Im Auftrag von *Satya > *Gesendet:* Montag, 27. Mai 2013 13:26 > *An:* ESP-r Users' Club > *Betreff:* [esp-r] Incomplete Simulation Results**** > > ** ** > > Hi,**** > > ** ** > > I ran a simulation for 12 days (Feb 23 to Mar 6) with 6 warm-up days. I > requested hourly data output from hour 1 of day 1 to hour 24 of day 12 but > the .grt file contains values only till hour 15 of day 8. **** > > ** ** > > How do I correct this error?**** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > Regards,**** > > Satyajit**** > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130527/bc975a67/attachment.html From Alex.Ferguson at NRCan-RNCan.gc.ca Mon May 27 16:40:09 2013 From: Alex.Ferguson at NRCan-RNCan.gc.ca (Ferguson, Alex) Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 15:40:09 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Failed Simulations in tester In-Reply-To: <519E7915.2040900@cmail.carleton.ca> References: <519E780D.1090405@cmail.carleton.ca> <519E7915.2040900@cmail.carleton.ca> Message-ID: <6E91C8562E39DD498E62F5AE4BF7224569AD6D83@S-BSC-MBX3.nrn.nrcan.gc.ca> Hi Adam, It's possible that a floating point exception would trigger the errors you encounter. I advise running tester with the -p command to point to a single test case, and -vv to dump runtime output: ./tester.pl -v --databases /usr/esru/development_branch/esp-r /usr/esru/development_branch/esp-r/bin/bps --ref_loc /usr/esru/development_branch/esp-r/bin/ --test_loc /usr/esru/development_branch/esp-r/bin/ -p /Path/to/the/case/you/want/to/test.cfg -vv Tester will dump simulation messages to the screen for the single test case, and possibly give you hints on where the problem lies. - Alex ________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Adam Wills Sent: May 23, 2013 16:16 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Failed Simulations in tester Hello Everyone, I have been attempting to run the tester scripts for some time now. When I try to create a results archive with tester using a clean version of development_branch, I have a few test cases which crash. I will provide details for how I compiled the branch, ran tester, and the problems I have encountered. I checked out development_branch @r9232 and launched Cygwin on my Windows XP machine. I compiled ESP-r using the following command: ./Install -d /usr/esru/development_branch/ --xml --no_training --extra-debug --silent Out of habit, I have been using the --extra-debug switch. Once ESP-r compiled, I navigated to tester/scripts and issued the following command: ./tester.pl -v --databases /usr/esru/development_branch/esp-r /usr/esru/development_branch/esp-r/bin/bps --ref_loc /usr/esru/development_branch/esp-r/bin/ --test_loc /usr/esru/development_branch/esp-r/bin/ --create_historical_archive ESRU_dev_cyg.tar.gz Tester runs to completion with most test cases running without issue. However, I get the following errors: ls: cannot access /home/Adam/development_branch/tester/scripts/ESRU_dev_cyg/Annex42_fuel_cell/SOFC_constant/*SL5_test.*: No such file or directory ls: cannot access /home/Adam/development_branch/tester/scripts/ESRU_dev_cyg/bld_hc_ISO15099/HC/*SL5_test.*: No such file or directory ls: cannot access /home/Adam/development_branch/tester/scripts/ESRU_dev_cyg/bld_hc_ISO15099/HC_no-ISO/*SL5_test.*: No such file or directory ls: cannot access /home/Adam/development_branch/tester/scripts/ESRU_dev_cyg/Lion_battery/Lion_battery/*SL5_test.*: No such file or directory ls: cannot access /home/Adam/development_branch/tester/scripts/ESRU_dev_cyg/plt_lookup_table/elec-follow/*SL5_test.*: No such file or directory ls: cannot access /home/Adam/development_branch/tester/scripts/ESRU_dev_cyg/NCHE_complete/NCHE_complete/*SL5_test.*: No such file or directory ls: cannot access /home/Adam/development_branch/tester/scripts/ESRU_dev_cyg/NCHE_complete_noNCHE/NCHE_complete/*SL5_test.*: No such file or directory ls: cannot access /home/Adam/development_branch/tester/scripts/ESRU_dev_cyg/plt_pre_A42_PEMFC_model/ccht/*SL5_test.*: No such file or directory ls: cannot access /home/Adam/development_branch/tester/scripts/ESRU_dev_cyg/plt_SDHW/system2_strat_tank/*SL5_test.*: No such file or directory ls: cannot access /home/Adam/development_branch/tester/scripts/ESRU_dev_cyg/plt_SDHW/system3_water/*SL5_test.*: No such file or directory ls: cannot access /home/Adam/development_branch/tester/scripts/ESRU_dev_cyg/plt_SDHW/system4_50_per_cent_glycol/*SL5_test.*: No such file or directory ls: cannot access /home/Adam/development_branch/tester/scripts/ESRU_dev_cyg/plt_SDHW/system4_water/*SL5_test.*: No such file or directory ls: cannot access /home/Adam/development_branch/tester/scripts/ESRU_dev_cyg/plt_zone_heat_gain_coupling/plt_multizone_construction_gain_test/*SL5_test.*: No such file or directory ls: cannot access /home/Adam/development_branch/tester/scripts/ESRU_dev_cyg/plt_zone_heat_gain_coupling/plt_multizone_nogain_test/*SL5_test.*: No such file or directory ls: cannot access /home/Adam/development_branch/tester/scripts/ESRU_dev_cyg/plt_zone_heat_gain_coupling/plt_multizone_surface_gain_test/*SL5_test.*: No such file or directory ls: cannot access /home/Adam/development_branch/tester/scripts/ESRU_dev_cyg/plt_zone_heat_gain_coupling/plt_multizone_zone_gain_test/*SL5_test.*: No such file or directory ls: cannot access /home/Adam/development_branch/tester/scripts/ESRU_dev_cyg/window_control/bld_simple/*SL5_test.*: No such file or directory Depending on the test case, the errors were either floating point exceptions or segmentation errors. I am curious if anyone else in the community has encountered these issues or can duplicate what I have been observing. Perhaps I am just running tester incorrectly. I'm going to run tester on my Ubuntu version next. Cheers, -- Adam Wills M.A.Sc. Sustainable Building Energy Systems Laboratory Solar Energy Systems Laboratory Department of Mechanical & Aerospace Engineering Carleton University Ottawa, Canada adamwills at cmail.carleton.ca -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130527/447d6a27/attachment-0001.html From achim.geissler at intergga.ch Tue May 28 18:10:13 2013 From: achim.geissler at intergga.ch (Achim Geissler) Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 19:10:13 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Exhaust air converging from more than two zones. In-Reply-To: References: <4388279F55D3434CACAFE7985985B319BE44@EX2010-MBX1.ds.strath.ac.uk>, <4388279F55D3434CACAFE7985985B319CBE3@EX2010-MBX1.ds.strath.ac.uk> Message-ID: <930E46DC-7CD2-4C53-859D-BDCE6FF5018F@intergga.ch> Dear Dimitrios I have not tried this with a plant network myself yet, no. Only with an air flow network. In a plant network I have to date only merged a multitude of liquid pipes - not to a mixing box, though. Anyway, the process was to use a series of merging pipes until only one ending was left. This worked well. What do you mean by "create the connections [?] in the control file"? The simulation starts, the plant network is accepted, only the flow results show that not all connections are used? That sounds strange - what / where is the "driving force" in your network? Are you entirely sure that every branch should be used? Do you also have an air flow network defined? There is also a controller available with which you can average temperatures to control against (I have only used it with two or three temperatures, though). Good luck! Best Achim > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: Dimitrios Sfakianakis [mailto:dimitrios.sfakianakis at strath.ac.uk] > Gesendet: Dienstag, 28. Mai 2013 14:25 > An: Geissler Achim > Betreff: RE: [esp-r] Exhaust air converging from more than two zones. > > Dear Achim, > > Thank you for your reply and your constant support in all kinds of modelling issues. > > I tried connecting more than one exhaust ducts to a thermal zone acting as a converge, without any luck. Although I manage to create the connections of multiple exhausts to the single zone in the control file, when I run a simulation I see that only one connection was actually established (the last one defined). Have you ever tried anything similar? If so, which approach did you use to connect more than one ducts to a zone? > > Kind regards, > > Dimitrios Sfakianakis > > > From: Geissler Achim [achim.geissler at fhnw.ch] > Sent: 23 May 2013 18:05 > To: Dimitrios Sfakianakis; 'esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk' > Subject: AW: [esp-r] Exhaust air converging from more than two zones. > > Dear Dimitrios > > a possible solution is to define the mixing box as a thermal zone and connect this to your plant as desired. > > Cheers > Achim > > > Von: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] Im Auftrag von Dimitrios Sfakianakis > Gesendet: Donnerstag, 23. Mai 2013 16:48 > An: 'esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk' > Betreff: [esp-r] Exhaust air converging from more than two zones. > > Dear list, > > I have a model with 10 zones and have set up a plant component network comprised by a mixing box, cooler, heater and a fan (much like the 'Component based HVAC' exemplar) . Air is supplied and exhausted from each zone and converges to a mixing box (converge) where a temperature sensor is located, according to which the operation of the heater and the cooler are controlled. Since the mixing box component only has two inlets I cannot use it to converge multiple exhaust ducts. Is there a way to converge all exhaust ducts to a single mixing box component in order to sense an 'average' temperature? > > Kind regards, > > - > > Dimitrios Sfakianakis > > achim.geissler at intergga.ch From dimitrios.sfakianakis at strath.ac.uk Wed May 29 17:44:27 2013 From: dimitrios.sfakianakis at strath.ac.uk (Dimitrios Sfakianakis) Date: Wed, 29 May 2013 16:44:27 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] plant configuration file error with new development_branch code Message-ID: <4388279F55D3434CACAFE7985985B319CCD1@EX2010-MBX1.ds.strath.ac.uk> Dear list, Today I downloaded and compiled the source code from the development branch (development_branch at r9237) in Ubuntu ran through VMware virtual player in Windows, and started having some problems with editing plant configuration files. At first I thought it was a compatibility issue since my models were created with a different version of esp-r however I get the same problems with newly created models and exemplars. For an existing plant configuration file (e.g. the exemplar component based HVAC system) when I try to modify the plant network the first time, I get an indication of "error reading plant data base" for each component defined and when I exit and try to modify it again I get the following error "FAILURE: in ../zones/coridor.geo: the plant db pointer value (0) < allowable minimum 1!" Is anyone else experiencing any similar problems? Any ideas about what might be causing the problem? I am also attaching a screenshot of the problem. Everything was working fine with the previous version I was using. Thanks for the help and support. Dimitris -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: plantcfgerror.png Type: image/png Size: 137837 bytes Desc: plantcfgerror.png Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130529/ca3dce79/attachment-0001.png From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Thu May 30 11:03:58 2013 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 11:03:58 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: plant configuration file error with new development_branch code In-Reply-To: <4388279F55D3434CACAFE7985985B319CCD1@EX2010-MBX1.ds.strath.ac.uk> References: <4388279F55D3434CACAFE7985985B319CCD1@EX2010-MBX1.ds.strath.ac.uk> Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA41301C9A9821152@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> The FAILURE: in ../zones/coridor.geo is giving the wrong file name because the code has not set the currently read file name varuable currentfile. The phrase "plant db ointer" is found in the source file esrucom/pltcfg.F near line 374. It is a read statment attempting to fill the variable NPREF. It read a zero which is out of range. It is the plant network file that it is trying to read when it faults. To confirm that your plant template database is ok you need to separately open it. It is possible that the exemplar component based HVAC network file has gotten corrupted. Do you get an issue with other plant network files? Regards, Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Dimitrios Sfakianakis [dimitrios.sfakianakis at strath.ac.uk] Sent: 29 May 2013 17:44 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] plant configuration file error with new development_branch code Dear list, Today I downloaded and compiled the source code from the development branch (development_branch at r9237) in Ubuntu ran through VMware virtual player in Windows, and started having some problems with editing plant configuration files. At first I thought it was a compatibility issue since my models were created with a different version of esp-r however I get the same problems with newly created models and exemplars. For an existing plant configuration file (e.g. the exemplar component based HVAC system) when I try to modify the plant network the first time, I get an indication of "error reading plant data base" for each component defined and when I exit and try to modify it again I get the following error "FAILURE: in ../zones/coridor.geo: the plant db pointer value (0) < allowable minimum 1!" Is anyone else experiencing any similar problems? Any ideas about what might be causing the problem? I am also attaching a screenshot of the problem. Everything was working fine with the previous version I was using. Thanks for the help and support. Dimitris From cristina.aloisio at gmail.com Mon Jun 3 21:47:18 2013 From: cristina.aloisio at gmail.com (Cristina Aloisio) Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2013 21:47:18 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] program installation Message-ID: Hi, I tried to install the ESP-programm but I have a problem. I have Windows 7 but I read on the site webpage that the program is only for WindowXP and Window Vista. Is this true? How can I install the program on my laptop? Thank you for your attention Best Regards Cristina Aloisio -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130603/f8f667ae/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Tue Jun 4 08:37:58 2013 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2013 08:37:58 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: program installation on W7 Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA41301C9A982115F@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> It is possible to run ESP-r on Windows 7. Here is a link to a recent ESP-r installer for W7. Regards, Jon Hand https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/17785121/ESPr_Installers/ESP-r_setup_native_windows_w7_v12_0_9181.exe ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Cristina Aloisio [cristina.aloisio at gmail.com] Sent: 03 June 2013 21:47 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] program installation Hi, I tried to install the ESP-programm but I have a problem. I have Windows 7 but I read on the site webpage that the program is only for WindowXP and Window Vista. Is this true? How can I install the program on my laptop? Thank you for your attention Best Regards Cristina Aloisio From gmolina1 at uc.cl Tue Jun 4 21:26:04 2013 From: gmolina1 at uc.cl (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Germ=E1n_Molina_Larrain?=) Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2013 16:26:04 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] Fwd: Postoctoral position in Chile - thermal and daylighting performance of buildings In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear all, I am sorry to spam here, but I am not sure of a better place to find people for this (and for the moderator, I attached something the first time, and then remembered that usualy these mailing lists like links more). The Chilean Center for Sustainable Urban Development (CEDEUS) calls for Postdoctoral positions starting in 2013 and for a maximum period of three years. CEDEUS is a center funded by the National Commission for Scientific and Techological Research (CONICYT). Postdoctoral researchers will join different ongoing projects inly related to environmental performance of buildings, with emphasis on thermal and daylighting, according to architectural design strategies, climate, user's behavior, complex external shading devices, among others. Researchers of the group belong to Architectural School and Engineering School of Pontificia Universidad Catolica de Chile (PUC). Please see HERE for more information. THANKS VERY MUCH German -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130604/f1e1b8a2/attachment.html From aloysiusdecruz2004 at yahoo.com Wed Jun 5 07:43:31 2013 From: aloysiusdecruz2004 at yahoo.com (Aloysius Decruz) Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2013 23:43:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [esp-r] HVAC system using GCEP Message-ID: <1370414611.81289.YahooMailNeo@web160301.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Dear all, Regarding GCEP (Ground Coupling Ecole Polytechnique) model: Can someone send me a sample of .gcep input file? Is this model still used in ESP-r? Thank you for your help Aloysius Decruz PhD Candidate University of Nottingham Ningbo China -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130604/f8f7ea30/attachment.html From cheard at prodigy.net.mx Thu Jun 6 21:22:50 2013 From: cheard at prodigy.net.mx (Christopher Heard) Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2013 15:22:50 -0500 Subject: [esp-r] Solar collector plant components Message-ID: I saw that back in December 2009 Andre Keul asked about modelling evacuated tube solar collectors by putting suitable values into a flate plate collector plant component. ? I can't find a reply to the question. ? Is there a workaround that enables a reasonable simulation of a evacuated tube solar collector? ? A water filled building space with double glazing with a vacuum between the panes?"- Building-side features can now be used to explicitly model systems.? This is? achieved by allowing zones to be filled with fluids other than air (this affects? solar absorption) and connected to flow networks established to represent any? fluid type.? This enables, for example, the explicit modelling of water solar? collectors and water-cooled windows."[esp-r Digest, Vol 59, Issue 22]Christopher Heard -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130606/b3ad21b6/attachment.html From cool_gyyun at yahoo.co.uk Fri Jun 7 12:40:13 2013 From: cool_gyyun at yahoo.co.uk (Geun Young Yun) Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2013 12:40:13 +0100 (BST) Subject: [esp-r] fw: hey Message-ID: <1370605213.37965.YahooMailNeo@web172503.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> http://alfacig.com/liao/ygttue.php -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130607/36b85adb/attachment.html From cool_gyyun at yahoo.co.uk Fri Jun 7 12:40:13 2013 From: cool_gyyun at yahoo.co.uk (Geun Young Yun) Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2013 12:40:13 +0100 (BST) Subject: [esp-r] fw: hey Message-ID: <1370605213.37965.YahooMailNeo@web172503.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> http://alfacig.com/liao/ygttue.php -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130607/36b85adb/attachment-0001.html From cool_gyyun at yahoo.co.uk Wed Jun 12 01:35:17 2013 From: cool_gyyun at yahoo.co.uk (Geun Young Yun) Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2013 01:35:17 +0100 (BST) Subject: [esp-r] fw: Message-ID: <1370997317.4318.YahooMailNeo@web172506.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> http://www.patentmobil.com/dgpdy.php _____ Geun Young Yun -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130612/8ab809f5/attachment.html From cool_gyyun at yahoo.co.uk Wed Jun 12 01:35:32 2013 From: cool_gyyun at yahoo.co.uk (Geun Young Yun) Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2013 01:35:32 +0100 (BST) Subject: [esp-r] hey. Message-ID: <1370997332.41876.YahooMailNeo@web172505.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> http://mrcduncan.org/ai.php *** Geun Young Yun -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130612/52530acb/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Wed Jun 12 17:12:43 2013 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2013 17:12:43 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Solar collector plant components In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA41301C9AB27D954@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> An question about an explicit representation of an evacuated tube solar collector.... I can imagine a virtual experiment where there was a thermal zone in the shape of an evacuated tube however ESP-r would have no way of representing an mirror reflections within the collector zone so that radiation was directed to an absorber. Another issue would be a zone with a vacuum. ESP-r might allow alternative to air filling with liquids but a vacuum is not something that has been tried. It might be represented as very low surface convection on the inner surfaces. Although there is a slab heater plant component (fluid running in pipes in a slab) I do not know anyone who has attempted to have the fluid running in a tube shaped pipe in an evacuated tube shaped zone. Might work, and this would be rather at the extreme and require considerable attention to detail. Perhaps someone in the community can think outside-the-box and come up with an approach? Regards, Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Christopher Heard [cheard at prodigy.net.mx] Sent: 06 June 2013 21:22 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Solar collector plant components I saw that back in December 2009 Andre Keul asked about modelling evacuated tube solar collectors by putting suitable values into a flate plate collector plant component. I can't find a reply to the question. Is there a workaround that enables a reasonable simulation of a evacuated tube solar collector? A water filled building space with double glazing with a vacuum between the panes? "- Building-side features can now be used to explicitly model systems. This is achieved by allowing zones to be filled with fluids other than air (this affects solar absorption) and connected to flow networks established to represent any fluid type. This enables, for example, the explicit modelling of water solar collectors and water-cooled windows." [esp-r Digest, Vol 59, Issue 22] Christopher Heard From manzan at units.it Thu Jun 13 11:43:01 2013 From: manzan at units.it (Marco Manzan) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2013 12:43:01 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Solar collector plant components In-Reply-To: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA41301C9AB27D954@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> References: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA41301C9AB27D954@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> Message-ID: <1690829.BV73f3zqqT@udine> In data mercoled? 12 giugno 2013 17:12:43, Jon Hand ha scritto: > An question about an explicit representation of an evacuated tube solar > collector.... > dear Christopher It depends at which level the simulation has to be performed. If you are performing a plant simulation with solar collector you can try inserting the values of efficiency curve of your collector to the flat panel model along with the IAM modifier, the main problem in the model is the lack of transverse IAM, pheraps an upgrade of the model in order to take into account also this parameter will be very helpful. On the other hand f the simulation is aimed at obtaining the performance data of the collector I think ESP-r is not the correct tool. Marco > I can imagine a virtual experiment where there was a thermal zone in the > shape of an evacuated tube however ESP-r would have no way of representing > an mirror reflections within the collector zone so that radiation was > directed to an absorber. Another issue would be a zone with a vacuum. > ESP-r might allow alternative to air filling with liquids but a vacuum is > not something that has been tried. It might be represented as very low > surface convection on the inner surfaces. > > Although there is a slab heater plant component (fluid running in pipes in a > slab) I do not know anyone who has attempted to have the fluid running in a > tube shaped pipe in an evacuated tube shaped zone. Might work, and this > would be rather at the extreme and require considerable attention to > detail. > > Perhaps someone in the community can think outside-the-box and come up > with an approach? > > Regards, Jon Hand > ________________________________________ > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On > Behalf Of Christopher Heard [cheard at prodigy.net.mx] Sent: 06 June 2013 > 21:22 > To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Subject: [esp-r] Solar collector plant components > > I saw that back in December 2009 Andre Keul asked about modelling evacuated > tube solar collectors by putting suitable values into a flate plate > collector plant component. > > I can't find a reply to the question. > > Is there a workaround that enables a reasonable simulation of a evacuated > tube solar collector? > > A water filled building space with double glazing with a vacuum between the > panes? > > "- Building-side features can now be used to explicitly model systems. This > is achieved by allowing zones to be filled with fluids other than air (this > affects solar absorption) and connected to flow networks established to > represent any fluid type. This enables, for example, the explicit > modelling of water solar collectors and water-cooled windows." > [esp-r Digest, Vol 59, Issue 22] > > > Christopher Heard > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r -- _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ |Marco Manzan Email: manzan at units.it | |Tel: (+39) 040 5583506 Fax : (+39) 040 572033 | |Dipartimento di Ingegneria e Architettura | |Universita' degli Studi di Trieste | |piazzale Europa 1, 34127 TRIESTE | |_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _| From s.a.asaee at gmail.com Thu Jun 13 18:02:50 2013 From: s.a.asaee at gmail.com (S. Rasoul Asaee) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2013 14:02:50 -0300 Subject: [esp-r] Co-generation models Message-ID: Hi mates, I want to use IC engine co-generation based models available in "tester/additional_tests/A42_combustion_cogen_comp_tests". However, no files exist in zones folder. Does anybody know about this model? Best regards, Rasoul Asaee -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130613/4b715f5e/attachment.html From cheard at prodigy.net.mx Thu Jun 13 18:42:40 2013 From: cheard at prodigy.net.mx (Christopher Heard) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2013 12:42:40 -0500 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Solar collector plant components Message-ID: As I am interested in integrating a solar collector heat source with an absorption cooling system the option that Marco suggests: "inserting the values of efficiency curve of your collector to the flat panel model along with the IAM modifier"would seem the right way to go.On modifying the model to include a transverse IAM: since I pretend to modify the absorption cooler model developed by Simon Borg, then: in-for-a-penny in-for-a-pound.In the end I want to see how much cooling an absorption cooler with solar heat could supply in housing in a series of locations and what the comfort implications would be.Christopher -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130613/bc4db886/attachment.html From ian_beausoleil-morrison at sbes.ca Fri Jun 14 10:41:15 2013 From: ian_beausoleil-morrison at sbes.ca (Ian Beausoleil-Morrison) Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2013 11:41:15 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Co-generation models In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Rasoul, The Annex 42 combustion cogeneration model comparative tests can be found in tester/additional_tests/A42_fuel_cell_comp_tests. The .geo, .con, .tmc, and .opr files can all be found in the ./oznes directory. - Ian On 13 June 2013 19:02, S. Rasoul Asaee wrote: > Hi mates, > > I want to use IC engine co-generation based models available in > "tester/additional_tests/A42_combustion_cogen_comp_tests". However, no > files exist in zones folder. Does anybody know about this model? > > > Best regards, > Rasoul Asaee > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130614/cad9c81f/attachment.html From j.hensen at tue.nl Fri Jun 14 13:03:33 2013 From: j.hensen at tue.nl (Hensen, J.L.M.) Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2013 12:03:33 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] vacant PhD positions - building performance simulation Message-ID: This is just to let you know that we have just opened 3 fully funded PhD positions: * Modeling and simulation of robust net-zero energy buildings * Modeling and simulation of smart energy demand management in Buildings * Building simulation for energy optimization of data centers Details about the vacancies are at: http://jobs.tue.nl/en/job/phd-modeling-and-simulation-of-robust-netzero-energy-buildings-167440.html http://jobs.tue.nl/en/job/phd-modeling-and-simulation-of-smart-energy-demand-management-in-buildings-167443.html http://jobs.tue.nl/en/job/phd-building-performance-simulation-for-globally-optimized-energy-efficient-dc-167445.html I would appreciate it very much if you could forward this message to potential candidates. Kind regards, Jan Hensen ........................................ prof. dr. ir. Jan L.M. Hensen | Eindhoven University of Technology | Building Physics & Services | P.O. Box 513 - VRT6.18 | 5600 MB EINDHOVEN, Netherlands | +31 (0)40 247 2988 | www.bwk.tue.nl/bps/hensen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130614/f368c9c2/attachment.html From Alex.Ferguson at NRCan-RNCan.gc.ca Mon Jun 17 17:16:06 2013 From: Alex.Ferguson at NRCan-RNCan.gc.ca (Ferguson, Alex) Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2013 16:16:06 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Co-generation models In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6E91C8562E39DD498E62F5AE4BF7224569ADA2F3@S-BSC-MBX3.nrn.nrcan.gc.ca> Hi Rasoul, The models you mention implement the IEA Annex 42 inter-model comparative test suite (see http://www.ecbcs.org/docs/Annex_42_Comparative_Testing_&_Empirical_Validation.pdf ) . These test cases isolate specific parts of the cogen model source code, and we used them to compare predictions between the ESP-r, TRNSYS and EnergyPlus codes. They are implemented as 'plant-only' ESP-r simulations where the inputs to the model are all defined in text files. - Alex ________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of S. Rasoul Asaee Sent: June 13, 2013 13:03 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Co-generation models Hi mates, I want to use IC engine co-generation based models available in "tester/additional_tests/A42_combustion_cogen_comp_tests". However, no files exist in zones folder. Does anybody know about this model? Best regards, Rasoul Asaee -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130617/1131cc5f/attachment.html From m.archontiki at student.tue.nl Mon Jun 17 17:01:30 2013 From: m.archontiki at student.tue.nl (Archontiki, M.) Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2013 16:01:30 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Night-time ventilation Message-ID: Dear all, Could please somebody give me a hint on how to import night time ventilation during cooling period? I have defined the infiltration and ventilation flow values for certain periods and I would like to have increased flow rates during non occupied hours, in the cooling months. I show the thermostatic control option but it applies to all day types and periods. Thank you in advance. Kind Regards, Maria Archontiki From achim.geissler at intergga.ch Mon Jun 17 18:12:26 2013 From: achim.geissler at intergga.ch (Achim Geissler) Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2013 19:12:26 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Night-time ventilation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <17669FED-040A-44BC-9396-EE8CE4A2ABC7@intergga.ch> Dear Maria there are four methods for ventilation simulation in ESP-r: a) via operations file, use "infiltration" for night time ventilation (note that "ventilation" in the operations files means "between zones", not to/from the ambient), b) by AIM ("air infiltration model" - I don't know anything about this, as I have never used it), c) via an external data file "tdf" and d) via an air flow network. The latter is the most sophisticated and takes the most "setting up" work (and likely the most knowledge of "what you are doing") - if your study is really focussing on night time ventilation, then this may be the best bet - you can open and close windows and doors via control, the actual air movement is calculated based on temperature differences (stack) and wind velocities. "a)" is quickly set up (by schedule in "operations file" menu") but has the significant drawback that the air changes are fixed by you and need not have any bearing on actual flows possible at any given time. "c)" is in effect a variant of "a)", however you can use smaller time steps ("a)" allows only hourly changing values). You could also use measurement values, with "c)". Hope that helps a bit. Regards Achim On Jun 17, 2013, at 6:01 PM, "Archontiki, M." wrote: > Dear all, > > Could please somebody give me a hint on how to import night time ventilation during cooling period? I have defined the infiltration and ventilation flow values for certain periods and I would like to have increased flow rates during non occupied hours, in the cooling months. I show the thermostatic control option but it applies to all day types and periods. Thank you in advance. > > Kind Regards, > Maria Archontiki > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > achim.geissler at intergga.ch From matthew.wright at c4ci.eu Tue Jun 18 17:23:09 2013 From: matthew.wright at c4ci.eu (Matthew Wright) Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2013 17:23:09 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Night-time ventilation In-Reply-To: <17669FED-040A-44BC-9396-EE8CE4A2ABC7@intergga.ch> References: <17669FED-040A-44BC-9396-EE8CE4A2ABC7@intergga.ch> Message-ID: <004d01ce6c40$1fdf55c0$5f9e0140$@wright@c4ci.eu> Hi Achim, Jon (and all), I have successfully modelled using air-flow networks, as I am interested in overheating in residential (and therefore often natural airflow) situations. However, I have two questions 1) When modelling air permeability in such a way that I could relate it to real world pressurisation (q50) tests, I used a set of external wall 'cracks', which linked to the air flow network. Is there an easier way of doing this? 2) If I wish to model an MVHR unit, is there a plant option or air network option that I could use? If one doesn't exist, how do I go about creating it? For example, would the model work if I physical recreated the heat exchanger as two zones with a thin wall between, etc? Any indication of where to look for helpful examples or 'buttons to push' would be good. Regards ? Matt ? -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Achim Geissler Sent: 17 June 2013 18:12 To: Archontiki, M. Cc: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Re: Night-time ventilation Dear Maria there are four methods for ventilation simulation in ESP-r: a) via operations file, use "infiltration" for night time ventilation (note that "ventilation" in the operations files means "between zones", not to/from the ambient), b) by AIM ("air infiltration model" - I don't know anything about this, as I have never used it), c) via an external data file "tdf" and d) via an air flow network. The latter is the most sophisticated and takes the most "setting up" work (and likely the most knowledge of "what you are doing") - if your study is really focussing on night time ventilation, then this may be the best bet - you can open and close windows and doors via control, the actual air movement is calculated based on temperature differences (stack) and wind velocities. "a)" is quickly set up (by schedule in "operations file" menu") but has the significant drawback that the air changes are fixed by you and need not have any bearing on actual flows possible at any given time. "c)" is in effect a variant of "a)", however you can use smaller time steps ("a)" allows only hourly changing values). You could also use measurement values, with "c)". Hope that helps a bit. Regards Achim On Jun 17, 2013, at 6:01 PM, "Archontiki, M." wrote: > Dear all, > > Could please somebody give me a hint on how to import night time ventilation during cooling period? I have defined the infiltration and ventilation flow values for certain periods and I would like to have increased flow rates during non occupied hours, in the cooling months. I show the thermostatic control option but it applies to all day types and periods. Thank you in advance. > > Kind Regards, > Maria Archontiki > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > achim.geissler at intergga.ch _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From achim.geissler at intergga.ch Tue Jun 18 20:29:27 2013 From: achim.geissler at intergga.ch (Achim Geissler) Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2013 21:29:27 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Night-time ventilation In-Reply-To: <004d01ce6c40$1fdf55c0$5f9e0140$@wright@c4ci.eu> References: <17669FED-040A-44BC-9396-EE8CE4A2ABC7@intergga.ch> <004d01ce6c40$1fdf55c0$5f9e0140$@wright@c4ci.eu> Message-ID: <54C5148C-D8FC-4075-819A-2EF0CDC724EB@intergga.ch> Hi Matt some quick thoughts: 1) that would also be my approach without any detailed knowledge on existing "real leaks". If, for example, the building has a wooden roof and is otherwise mainly made of concrete, I would probably put more leaks in the roof and then think about how the cellar (simple windows?) is connected internally to the rest of the building. Also, leakage paths inside lightweight walls (think of plumbing etc) are often found. The ESP-r model is then a series of cracks and small openings, yes. 2) I am not entirely sure what a "MVHR" is, but the heat recovery you describe would work, yes. You could "tune" it by adapting the heat transfer coefficients of the thin wall. There is a heat recovery flow component, I think (there definitely should be a heat recovery plant component, I am quite sure). Best Achim On Jun 18, 2013, at 6:23 PM, Matthew Wright wrote: > Hi Achim, Jon (and all), > > I have successfully modelled using air-flow networks, as I am interested in > overheating in residential (and therefore often natural airflow) situations. > > However, I have two questions > > 1) When modelling air permeability in such a way that I could relate it to > real world pressurisation (q50) tests, I used a set of external wall > 'cracks', which linked to the air flow network. Is there an easier way of > doing this? > 2) If I wish to model an MVHR unit, is there a plant option or air network > option that I could use? If one doesn't exist, how do I go about creating > it? > For example, would the model work if I physical recreated the heat exchanger > as two zones with a thin wall between, etc? > > Any indication of where to look for helpful examples or 'buttons to push' > would be good. > > Regards > > Matt > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk > [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Achim Geissler > Sent: 17 June 2013 18:12 > To: Archontiki, M. > Cc: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Subject: [esp-r] Re: Night-time ventilation > > Dear Maria > > there are four methods for ventilation simulation in ESP-r: > a) via operations file, use "infiltration" for night time ventilation (note > that "ventilation" in the operations files means "between zones", not > to/from the ambient), > b) by AIM ("air infiltration model" - I don't know anything about this, as I > have never used it), > c) via an external data file "tdf" and > d) via an air flow network. > > The latter is the most sophisticated and takes the most "setting up" work > (and likely the most knowledge of "what you are doing") - if your study is > really focussing on night time ventilation, then this may be the best bet - > you can open and close windows and doors via control, the actual air > movement is calculated based on temperature differences (stack) and wind > velocities. > > "a)" is quickly set up (by schedule in "operations file" menu") but has the > significant drawback that the air changes are fixed by you and need not have > any bearing on actual flows possible at any given time. "c)" is in effect a > variant of "a)", however you can use smaller time steps ("a)" allows only > hourly changing values). You could also use measurement values, with "c)". > > Hope that helps a bit. > > Regards > Achim > > > On Jun 17, 2013, at 6:01 PM, "Archontiki, M." > wrote: > >> Dear all, >> >> Could please somebody give me a hint on how to import night time > ventilation during cooling period? I have defined the infiltration and > ventilation flow values for certain periods and I would like to have > increased flow rates during non occupied hours, in the cooling months. I > show the thermostatic control option but it applies to all day types and > periods. Thank you in advance. >> >> Kind Regards, >> Maria Archontiki >> >> _______________________________________________ >> esp-r mailing list >> esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk >> http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r >> > > achim.geissler at intergga.ch > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > achim.geissler at intergga.ch From mattdeany.wright at gmail.com Tue Jun 18 21:44:20 2013 From: mattdeany.wright at gmail.com (Matthew Wright) Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2013 21:44:20 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Night-time ventilation In-Reply-To: <54C5148C-D8FC-4075-819A-2EF0CDC724EB@intergga.ch> References: <17669FED-040A-44BC-9396-EE8CE4A2ABC7@intergga.ch> <004d01ce6c40$1fdf55c0$5f9e0140$@wright@c4ci.eu> <54C5148C-D8FC-4075-819A-2EF0CDC724EB@intergga.ch> Message-ID: <51C0C6A4.9010200@c4ci.eu> Thanks Achim, 1) I set a door to have a constant input at different constant volume flows, and inspected the back pressure, (below 1m./s wind day selected) which allows one to measure the q50 for the model. I then had set size cracks and adjusted their size to hit the target q50.(!) 2) MVHR = Mechanical Ventilation Heat Recovery in the British market, as far as my experience goes. Thanks again, Matt Wright On 18/06/2013 20:29, Achim Geissler wrote: > Hi Matt > > some quick thoughts: > 1) that would also be my approach without any detailed knowledge on existing "real leaks". If, for example, the building has a wooden roof and is otherwise mainly made of concrete, I would probably put more leaks in the roof and then think about how the cellar (simple windows?) is connected internally to the rest of the building. Also, leakage paths inside lightweight walls (think of plumbing etc) are often found. The ESP-r model is then a series of cracks and small openings, yes. > > 2) I am not entirely sure what a "MVHR" is, but the heat recovery you describe would work, yes. You could "tune" it by adapting the heat transfer coefficients of the thin wall. There is a heat recovery flow component, I think (there definitely should be a heat recovery plant component, I am quite sure). > > Best > Achim > > > > On Jun 18, 2013, at 6:23 PM, Matthew Wright wrote: > >> Hi Achim, Jon (and all), >> >> I have successfully modelled using air-flow networks, as I am interested in >> overheating in residential (and therefore often natural airflow) situations. >> >> However, I have two questions >> >> 1) When modelling air permeability in such a way that I could relate it to >> real world pressurisation (q50) tests, I used a set of external wall >> 'cracks', which linked to the air flow network. Is there an easier way of >> doing this? >> 2) If I wish to model an MVHR unit, is there a plant option or air network >> option that I could use? If one doesn't exist, how do I go about creating >> it? >> For example, would the model work if I physical recreated the heat exchanger >> as two zones with a thin wall between, etc? >> >> Any indication of where to look for helpful examples or 'buttons to push' >> would be good. >> >> Regards >> >> Matt >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk >> [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Achim Geissler >> Sent: 17 June 2013 18:12 >> To: Archontiki, M. >> Cc: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk >> Subject: [esp-r] Re: Night-time ventilation >> >> Dear Maria >> >> there are four methods for ventilation simulation in ESP-r: >> a) via operations file, use "infiltration" for night time ventilation (note >> that "ventilation" in the operations files means "between zones", not >> to/from the ambient), >> b) by AIM ("air infiltration model" - I don't know anything about this, as I >> have never used it), >> c) via an external data file "tdf" and >> d) via an air flow network. >> >> The latter is the most sophisticated and takes the most "setting up" work >> (and likely the most knowledge of "what you are doing") - if your study is >> really focussing on night time ventilation, then this may be the best bet - >> you can open and close windows and doors via control, the actual air >> movement is calculated based on temperature differences (stack) and wind >> velocities. >> >> "a)" is quickly set up (by schedule in "operations file" menu") but has the >> significant drawback that the air changes are fixed by you and need not have >> any bearing on actual flows possible at any given time. "c)" is in effect a >> variant of "a)", however you can use smaller time steps ("a)" allows only >> hourly changing values). You could also use measurement values, with "c)". >> >> Hope that helps a bit. >> >> Regards >> Achim >> >> >> On Jun 17, 2013, at 6:01 PM, "Archontiki, M." >> wrote: >> >>> Dear all, >>> >>> Could please somebody give me a hint on how to import night time >> ventilation during cooling period? I have defined the infiltration and >> ventilation flow values for certain periods and I would like to have >> increased flow rates during non occupied hours, in the cooling months. I >> show the thermostatic control option but it applies to all day types and >> periods. Thank you in advance. >>> Kind Regards, >>> Maria Archontiki >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> esp-r mailing list >>> esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk >>> http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r >>> >> achim.geissler at intergga.ch >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> esp-r mailing list >> esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk >> http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> esp-r mailing list >> esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk >> http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r >> > achim.geissler at intergga.ch > > > > > From aizaz.a.samuel at strath.ac.uk Wed Jun 19 11:01:37 2013 From: aizaz.a.samuel at strath.ac.uk (Aizaz Samuel) Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2013 11:01:37 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Night-time ventilation In-Reply-To: <51C0C6A4.9010200@c4ci.eu> References: <17669FED-040A-44BC-9396-EE8CE4A2ABC7@intergga.ch> <004d01ce6c40$1fdf55c0$5f9e0140$@wright@c4ci.eu> <54C5148C-D8FC-4075-819A-2EF0CDC724EB@intergga.ch> <51C0C6A4.9010200@c4ci.eu> Message-ID: <51C18181.2040100@strath.ac.uk> A very simple way of setting up an MVHR in a flow network is to make a mixing box zone and supply all fresh air from that. Then supposing the MVHR is 80% efficient set up the room extracts to extract 80% to the mixing box. This ensures 80% of heat is extracted and supplied to the inlet. Not too clever if you are looking for an exact representation though. -Aizaz On 18/06/13 21:44, Matthew Wright wrote: > Thanks Achim, > > 1) I set a door to have a constant input at different constant volume > flows, and inspected the back pressure, (below 1m./s wind day selected) > which allows one to measure the q50 for the model. I then had set size > cracks and adjusted their size to hit the target q50.(!) > > 2) MVHR = Mechanical Ventilation Heat Recovery in the British market, as > far as my experience goes. > > Thanks again, > > Matt Wright > > > On 18/06/2013 20:29, Achim Geissler wrote: >> Hi Matt >> >> some quick thoughts: >> 1) that would also be my approach without any detailed knowledge on existing "real leaks". If, for example, the building has a wooden roof and is otherwise mainly made of concrete, I would probably put more leaks in the roof and then think about how the cellar (simple windows?) is connected internally to the rest of the building. Also, leakage paths inside lightweight walls (think of plumbing etc) are often found. The ESP-r model is then a series of cracks and small openings, yes. >> >> 2) I am not entirely sure what a "MVHR" is, but the heat recovery you describe would work, yes. You could "tune" it by adapting the heat transfer coefficients of the thin wall. There is a heat recovery flow component, I think (there definitely should be a heat recovery plant component, I am quite sure). >> >> Best >> Achim >> >> >> >> On Jun 18, 2013, at 6:23 PM, Matthew Wright wrote: >> >>> Hi Achim, Jon (and all), >>> >>> I have successfully modelled using air-flow networks, as I am interested in >>> overheating in residential (and therefore often natural airflow) situations. >>> >>> However, I have two questions >>> >>> 1) When modelling air permeability in such a way that I could relate it to >>> real world pressurisation (q50) tests, I used a set of external wall >>> 'cracks', which linked to the air flow network. Is there an easier way of >>> doing this? >>> 2) If I wish to model an MVHR unit, is there a plant option or air network >>> option that I could use? If one doesn't exist, how do I go about creating >>> it? >>> For example, would the model work if I physical recreated the heat exchanger >>> as two zones with a thin wall between, etc? >>> >>> Any indication of where to look for helpful examples or 'buttons to push' >>> would be good. >>> >>> Regards >>> >>> Matt >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk >>> [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Achim Geissler >>> Sent: 17 June 2013 18:12 >>> To: Archontiki, M. >>> Cc: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk >>> Subject: [esp-r] Re: Night-time ventilation >>> >>> Dear Maria >>> >>> there are four methods for ventilation simulation in ESP-r: >>> a) via operations file, use "infiltration" for night time ventilation (note >>> that "ventilation" in the operations files means "between zones", not >>> to/from the ambient), >>> b) by AIM ("air infiltration model" - I don't know anything about this, as I >>> have never used it), >>> c) via an external data file "tdf" and >>> d) via an air flow network. >>> >>> The latter is the most sophisticated and takes the most "setting up" work >>> (and likely the most knowledge of "what you are doing") - if your study is >>> really focussing on night time ventilation, then this may be the best bet - >>> you can open and close windows and doors via control, the actual air >>> movement is calculated based on temperature differences (stack) and wind >>> velocities. >>> >>> "a)" is quickly set up (by schedule in "operations file" menu") but has the >>> significant drawback that the air changes are fixed by you and need not have >>> any bearing on actual flows possible at any given time. "c)" is in effect a >>> variant of "a)", however you can use smaller time steps ("a)" allows only >>> hourly changing values). You could also use measurement values, with "c)". >>> >>> Hope that helps a bit. >>> >>> Regards >>> Achim >>> >>> >>> On Jun 17, 2013, at 6:01 PM, "Archontiki, M." >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Dear all, >>>> >>>> Could please somebody give me a hint on how to import night time >>> ventilation during cooling period? I have defined the infiltration and >>> ventilation flow values for certain periods and I would like to have >>> increased flow rates during non occupied hours, in the cooling months. I >>> show the thermostatic control option but it applies to all day types and >>> periods. Thank you in advance. >>>> Kind Regards, >>>> Maria Archontiki >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> esp-r mailing list >>>> esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk >>>> http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r >>>> >>> achim.geissler at intergga.ch >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> esp-r mailing list >>> esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk >>> http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> esp-r mailing list >>> esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk >>> http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r >>> >> achim.geissler at intergga.ch >> >> >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > From j.hensen at tue.nl Fri Jun 28 13:55:40 2013 From: j.hensen at tue.nl (Hensen, J.L.M.) Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2013 12:55:40 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] opening for research fellow: Modeling and Simulation of Innovative Building Energy Systems In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear all, We currently have an opening for a research fellow as detailed on: http://jobs.tue.nl/en/job/researcher:-modeling-and-simulation-of-innovative-building-energy-systems-168243.html I would appreciate it very much if you could forward this email to potential candidates. Thanks in advance! Jan Hensen ............................ prof. dr. ir. Jan L.M. Hensen | Eindhoven University of Technology | Building Physics & Systems| P.O. Box 513 - VRT6.18 | 5600 MB EINDHOVEN, Netherlands | +31 (0)40 247 2988 | www.bwk.tue.nl/bps/hensen From Lukas.Swan at dal.ca Thu Jul 11 13:11:25 2013 From: Lukas.Swan at dal.ca (Lukas Swan (Dal)) Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2013 09:11:25 -0300 Subject: [esp-r] Funded PhD and Post-Doc Opportunities in Advanced Building Simulation Message-ID: Fully Funded PhD and Post-Doc Fellowship opportunities for a large industry/academia collaborative research project titled: Climate Forecasting in Predictive Building Control. http://resl.me.dal.ca/index.php/opportunities-to-join These opportunities at Dalhousie University in Canada are part of a multi-year $3.4M research projectin collaboration with Green Power Labs Inc. to model and simulate commercial buildings with climate forecasting for predictive building HVAC control. This project will use a powerful building simulator to develop and determine the performance of advanced HVAC control strategies that utilize climate forecasting for optimal equipment operation and to reduce energy consumption, GHG emissions, and energy costs. Please direct all inquiries to the address provided in the flyer at the following web address. http://resl.me.dal.ca/index.php/opportunities-to-join Note that the interest-application is due by August 1, 2013. Regards Lukas Lukas Swan, PhD, PEng Assistant Professor, Dept. of Mechanical Engineering Director, Renewable Energy Storage Laboratory Dalhousie University Office: C302 Sexton Campus Canada 902-494-4643 Lukas.Swan at Dal.Ca Renewable Energy Storage Laboratory (RESL): http://resl.me.dal.ca -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130711/e72d3000/attachment.html From mike at bldgperformance.co.uk Thu Jul 18 16:17:19 2013 From: mike at bldgperformance.co.uk (Mike Whalley) Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2013 16:17:19 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] PCM Modelling Message-ID: <000d01ce83c9$e53fec80$afbfc580$@bldgperformance.co.uk> Hi to All I'd like to get some help modelling PCM in the active materials section of Special Components in esp-r. In particular I'd like to make sure that I understand the inputs: Melting temperature - the temperature at which the solid PCM begins to melt. I'd expect this to be lower than the solidification temperature Solidification temperature - the temperature at which the liquid PCM begins to freeze. I'd expect this to be higher than the melting temperature. Conductivity in solid phase - self explanatory Conductivity in liquid phase - self explanatory Specific heat - is this taken at solid or liquid phase. Latent heat member a, latent heat member b - I'm not sure what are members a and b Do the properties above apply to the PCM or to the complete compound, ie if PCM is encapsulated 50/50 in wallboard are the wallboard properties entered as normal in the materials database and the PCM properties in the special components file? Any help would be much appreciated Mike Whalley CEng MCIBSE Principal Director Building Performance Analysis Limited PO Box 3516 Bath BA1 1ZN Tel:01225 920796 Mob:07919 993610 mike at bldgperformance.co.uk www.bldgperformance.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130718/ada77030/attachment.html From dariusz.heim at p.lodz.pl Fri Jul 19 10:58:11 2013 From: dariusz.heim at p.lodz.pl (Dariusz Heim) Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2013 11:58:11 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: PCM Modelling In-Reply-To: <000d01ce83c9$e53fec80$afbfc580$@bldgperformance.co.uk> References: <000d01ce83c9$e53fec80$afbfc580$@bldgperformance.co.uk> Message-ID: <51E90DB3.4070507@p.lodz.pl> Dear Mike, The PCM model you would like to use is the simple one (without overcooling or overheating) but with the linear function of latent heat flux versus temperature. Melting temperature should be lower than solidification. The difference is the phase change temperature range. Specific heat is taken for solid phase. Members a and b is the constants of linear function: y=ax+b. Alternatively, you can use a simpler model where latent heat flux is constant versus temperature. Then, you need to know only latent heat and both temperature. Please see also: http://www.ibpsa.org/proceedings/BS2005/BS05_0397_402.pdf Kind regards, Darek W dniu 2013-07-18 17:17, Mike Whalley pisze: > > Hi to All > > I'd like to get some help modelling PCM in the active materials > section of Special Components in esp-r. In particular I'd like to make > sure that I understand the inputs: > > Melting temperature -- the temperature at which the solid PCM begins > to melt. I'd expect this to be lower than the solidification temperature > > Solidification temperature -- the temperature at which the liquid PCM > begins to freeze. I'd expect this to be higher than the melting > temperature. > > Conductivity in solid phase -- self explanatory > > Conductivity in liquid phase -- self explanatory > > Specific heat -- is this taken at solid or liquid phase. > > Latent heat member a, latent heat member b -- I'm not sure what are > members a and b > > Do the properties above apply to the PCM or to the complete compound, > ie if PCM is encapsulated 50/50 in wallboard are the wallboard > properties entered as normal in the materials database and the PCM > properties in the special components file? > > Any help would be much appreciated > > *Mike Whalley **CEng MCIBSE*** > > *Principal Director* > > *Building Performance Analysis Limited* > > *PO Box 3516* > > *Bath* > > *BA1 1ZN* > > ** > > *Tel:01225 920796* > > *Mob:07919 993610* > > mike at bldgperformance.co.uk > > www.bldgperformance.co.uk > > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130719/0b32d668/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Fri Jul 19 15:53:03 2013 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2013 15:53:03 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] An alternative to the compute-server fan boys - numerical simulation on a Raspberry Pi Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA41301C9AC90BB8B@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> Business Card Simulation - Jon Hand, ESRU, Glasgow, Scotland, 19 July 2013 The Simulation Community is often seduced by the dark-side of speed and complexity. Compute servers and thousand zone models have their fan-boys. And yet much of the work of creating and evolving simulation models takes a fraction of the computing power most machines deliver and lots of real-world simulation issues can be described via focused models and focused assessments. So lets open up our options, think outside of the box and explore a totally different scale of computing resource... How about virtual physics via a full numerical simulation suite on a Raspberry Pi? Lots of buzz around about these wee beasties. Pure-dead-brillient as we say in Scotland. It turns out that with a few tweaks in their setup and a few software tweaks on the simulation side they are also great platforms for exploring whole-building multi-domain simulation. A Raspberry Pi draws ~3W, is utterly silent, costs ~30 Dollars/Pounds, carries its OS on an 8GB SDHC card and has wee blinking lights that will keep you cat facenated. And it now runs ESP-r. ESP-r for Pi uses alternative header files that constrain model complexity (42 zones and 2K surfaces and lower CFD domain grid density and mass flow network nodes) but otherwise it has the same multi-doman feature set as the Enterprise/Linux/OSX/Windows versions. Blazing fast - not really. A normal 20 second assessment takes a couple of minutes. Are you likely to be generating 2GB results sets or running massive parametric studies - not so often. Coupled transient CFD on a Pi? Who knows, but at this cost point our current definition of deploying simulation is open for discussion. I would certainly take a dozen of these beasties to a training workshop and plug them into local keyboards, mice and monitors rather than worry about software setup on unknown computers. I would certainly loan one to a student for project work. Folk used to any version of Debian Linux and/or OSX can just sit down and get to work on a Pi. The ESP-r Install script recognises the Pi as a build option if you want to make your own custom version or upgrade from the repository and re-compile. Be warned though, building from scratch is going to take hours rather than minutes. Contact jon at esru.strath.ac.uk and I will send you instructions. For those who have a Pi and want to avoid the hassles a pre-configured Raspbian with ESP-r distribution (pure-text, X11 and GTK interfaces), development tool-chain and source on an 8GB class 10 SDHC cards can be burned and shipped. Contact Jon Hand at jon at esru.strath.ac.uk for details. From cn06arc at leeds.ac.uk Fri Jul 19 21:29:10 2013 From: cn06arc at leeds.ac.uk (Andrew Cowie) Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2013 21:29:10 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] CFD questions Message-ID: Hi all, A few quick questions about the CFD, had a look through the training models but there doesn't appear to be one with the combination of features i'm interested in. 1. Will adaptive conflation (ie. conflation 4) still conflate with a room air mass flow network (mainly openable windows)? 2. Do i need to give any specific boundary conditions to conflate them? Or just conflate the surface as normal? 3. When using adaptive conflation, does the handshaking you specify in the .dfd file make any difference? I know that the adaptive conflation controller controls handshaking during the simulation, but is this used to specify the initial condition or something? And will the adaptive conflation controller stick to one-way conflation if i set it to a one-way handshaking scheme in the .dfd file? (not a major concern in the grand scheme of things, i just want to be absolutely sure that im reporting it right) Also i don't know if its significant to anyone but i'm presenting research that has used ESP-r an awful lot at a conference in September, please email me if anyone wants details. Thanks in anticipation, Andy Cowie From kinam at kang.korea.com Mon Jul 22 13:35:36 2013 From: kinam at kang.korea.com (=?EUC-KR?B?sK2x4rOy?=) Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2013 21:35:36 +0900 Subject: [esp-r] =?euc-kr?q?some_of_the_Q_-daniel_kang?= Message-ID: <1374496551127434.032370.outsmtp02@outsmtp02> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130722/18e66a8d/attachment.html From achim.geissler at intergga.ch Mon Jul 22 19:15:44 2013 From: achim.geissler at intergga.ch (Achim.geissler) Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2013 20:15:44 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: some of the Q -daniel kang Message-ID: <4f4d72cd57d98ecbfb20c8849e372868@87.102.164.35> Dear Daniel Kang the maximum number of zones is typically set to 50 or thereabouts. If you are starting out with ESP-r, you should likely experiment with models that have much less zones. What "nodes" do you mean? Basically, each zone is represented by a thermal node. However, air flow models, explicit plants and CFD have different node counts and boundaries. Regards Achim --------- Original-Nachricht -------- Von: ?????? An: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Betreff: [esp-r] some of the Q -daniel kang Datum: 22/07/13 14:38 > #mailBodyContentDiv { font-family : ???? ; background-color: #ffffff;font-size:10pt;} #mailBodyContentDiv BODY { background-color: #ffffff;} #mailBodyContentDiv BODY, TD, TH { color: black; font-family: ????; font-size: 10pt; } #mailBodyContentDiv P { margin: 0px; padding:2px;} Good afternoon. >   > esp-r is a student studying. >   > Right now I have "ESP-r_setup_native_windows_gtk_v11_9_gcc3" version is being used. >   > This is the maximum number of zone that can be implemented in? >   > Also, how many is the maximum number of node can be implemented? >   > Please respond. >   > Thank you. >   > daniel kang > > > > > > ???????????? 7???????? ???????? 10??(????????, ???????? ?????? ???????? ????)?????? ?????????? ??????????. > > > > ???? ?????? > ???? ???? > ???????? ???? > ???????? > > > ESP-r_setup_native_windows_gtk_v11_9_gcc3.exe > 67 MB > 2013.07.29 ???? > ???????? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From cn06arc at leeds.ac.uk Sat Jul 27 14:13:02 2013 From: cn06arc at leeds.ac.uk (Andrew Cowie) Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2013 14:13:02 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] CFD conflation options Message-ID: Hi all, Further to my previous set of questions, i notice that the help text on the Bsim-CFD conflation options is still woefully out of date. So i have a few further questions: 1. Exactly what conflation options are still supported? 2. Is there one which will allow me to conflate both the building simulation AND the airflow network to the CFD? If so which one? I will do my best to update the help text with this info once i start cataloging and commiting my developments. Thanks in anticipation, Andy Cowie From achim.geissler at intergga.ch Sat Jul 27 17:23:56 2013 From: achim.geissler at intergga.ch (Achim Geissler) Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2013 18:23:56 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: CFD conflation options In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Andy it does not look like you will be receiving many answers, sadly. As my usage of CFD with conflation an all is a few years back, I hesitated to give any answers as these must stay vague. In regard to 1. below, it is probably easiest to do a code-crawl and find out which conflation types are still in the code (I expect that none have been actually removed, so maybe one would need to do tests). In an old model, I found conflation type entries 3, 4 and 11 for the surfaces. 2. said model also used an air flow network, so yes, there should be no problem, here In regard to 1, 2 and 3 from your original mail 1. Based on said model from above, I would say the answer is "yes" 2. I can't see any unusual entries in the files, so probably "no" 3. pass Sorry that I can't give any more detailed information. Maybe someone else will now feel the urge to set me right and chime in ? Cheers Achim On Jul 27, 2013, at 3:13 PM, Andrew Cowie wrote: > Hi all, > > Further to my previous set of questions, i notice that the help text on the Bsim-CFD conflation options is still woefully out of date. So i have a few further questions: > > 1. Exactly what conflation options are still supported? > 2. Is there one which will allow me to conflate both the building simulation AND the airflow network to the CFD? If so which one? > > I will do my best to update the help text with this info once i start cataloging and commiting my developments. > > Thanks in anticipation, > Andy Cowie > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > achim.geissler at intergga.ch From cn06arc at leeds.ac.uk Sat Jul 27 18:54:09 2013 From: cn06arc at leeds.ac.uk (Andrew Cowie) Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2013 18:54:09 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: CFD conflation options Message-ID: <584E204C-2F59-4015-8B4D-F65FA8BCBB8E@leeds.ac.uk> Thanks Achim, I appreciate that the CFD in ESP-r is seldom used, but I figured someone on here must have coded it! The recent email was in regard to overall conflation options, specified on line 2 of the dfd file "*conflation #". A quick grep of the exemplars reveals instances of conflation 0, 1 and 4. I know 4 is adaptive, inferring from the old help text I guess 0 is CFD only, but 1 is a mystery to me; it seems to basically work (though I can't get it to converge) but the help text suggests that this is a defunct mode that was superceded by the adaptive conflation controller. Tests confirm that conflation types 2 and 3 no longer function correctly. In regard to your answers, I had essentially a "no" from Aizaz for question 1 of my first three questions, which is interesting as it would mean that there is currently no supported means of conflating the airflow. My tests so far seem to confirm this, as conflation 4 will generally either refuse to converge or throw up an error in mfsolv when the airflow network is included. Occasionally it can be coerced to converge, but this takes a great deal of reducing the relaxation factors and at least 10,000 iterations, so I can't help but feel it's not working quite right. This is quite frustrating as I'm trying to create case study models which are subject to largely wind-driven airflow. It is possible though that it does technically work but my model is too complex to get a solution, this is my next avenue of investigation. For question 2 from my first three I found an option in CFD boundary condition creation that appears to correctly conflate openings with airflow connections. This creates extra nodes in the airflow network, but these are "hidden" nodes as they do not appear in the afn file. This seems reasonable considering what I know of the conflation mechanisms, so I can only assume that the code to do it still exists despite the retirement of conflation type 3 and the apparent non-applicability of conflation type 4. I would love nothing more than to spend months doggedly un-picking these tangles from the code, but unfortunately I have a thesis due in fairly short order, so any ideas for "quick-fix" workarounds anyone may have would be very helpful. Thanks all, Andy Sent from mobile ----- Reply message ----- From: "Achim Geissler" To: "Andrew Cowie" Cc: "esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk" Subject: [esp-r] CFD conflation options Date: Sat, Jul 27, 2013 17:24 Hi Andy it does not look like you will be receiving many answers, sadly. As my usage of CFD with conflation an all is a few years back, I hesitated to give any answers as these must stay vague. In regard to 1. below, it is probably easiest to do a code-crawl and find out which conflation types are still in the code (I expect that none have been actually removed, so maybe one would need to do tests). In an old model, I found conflation type entries 3, 4 and 11 for the surfaces. 2. said model also used an air flow network, so yes, there should be no problem, here In regard to 1, 2 and 3 from your original mail 1. Based on said model from above, I would say the answer is "yes" 2. I can't see any unusual entries in the files, so probably "no" 3. pass Sorry that I can't give any more detailed information. Maybe someone else will now feel the urge to set me right and chime in ? Cheers Achim On Jul 27, 2013, at 3:13 PM, Andrew Cowie wrote: > Hi all, > > Further to my previous set of questions, i notice that the help text on the Bsim-CFD conflation options is still woefully out of date. So i have a few further questions: > > 1. Exactly what conflation options are still supported? > 2. Is there one which will allow me to conflate both the building simulation AND the airflow network to the CFD? If so which one? > > I will do my best to update the help text with this info once i start cataloging and commiting my developments. > > Thanks in anticipation, > Andy Cowie > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > achim.geissler at intergga.ch From cn06arc at leeds.ac.uk Tue Jul 30 14:04:31 2013 From: cn06arc at leeds.ac.uk (Andrew Cowie) Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 14:04:31 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] CFD-mass flow network conflation Message-ID: Hi all, After much fiddling and testing, i can now confirm that adaptive conflation (conflation 4) CAN be conflated with both the building simulation and the mass flow network. Results seem reasonable so I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that it works correctly, i have neither the time nor the experimental measurements to validate it to any significant degree. For the benefit of anyone wishing to do this, I have found that wind-driven flows tend to somewhat vex the standard k-epsilon turbulence model, and convergence is generally very difficult to achieve. For my models the fixed eddy viscosity zero-equation model appears to work exceptionally well, though as I'm sure any CFD buff will tell you it must be kept in mind that this is a rather simplified turbulence model, and results should be taken with a pinch of salt; if you are looking to accurately model the airflow patterns in the room i would recommend against using this. Also, be aware that it will take quite a long time (about 3 hours for 24 time steps with my models). Thanks to all for what assistance and comments were offered. Frankly i don't understand why the CFD in ESP-r isn't used more, the adaptive conflation controller is a work of genius and the conflation in general takes a good deal of the guesswork out of the CFD. Cheers, Andy Cowie From sebastien.brideau at gmail.com Fri Aug 2 02:20:53 2013 From: sebastien.brideau at gmail.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?S=E9bastien_Brideau?=) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 21:20:53 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] simulation toggles from command line (implicit explicit schemes) Message-ID: <000c01ce8f1e$89194a90$9b4bdfb0$@gmail.com> Hi all, Is anybody aware of a way to call the bps with a ?flag? that would override the default setting for implicit/explicit scheme? I want to run a simulation where the plant is solved fully implicitly (variable impexp = 1). I am asking because I want to run a ESP-r TRNSYS co-simulation and the input file to the co-simulator requires the command to call the bps. Can?t do it with the GUI. Thanks for any help, S?bastien Brideau sebastien.brideau at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130801/45c94825/attachment.html From cn06arc at leeds.ac.uk Fri Aug 2 10:34:51 2013 From: cn06arc at leeds.ac.uk (Andrew Cowie) Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 10:34:51 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: simulation toggles from command line (implicit explicit schemes) In-Reply-To: <000c01ce8f1e$89194a90$9b4bdfb0$@gmail.com> References: <000c01ce8f1e$89194a90$9b4bdfb0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi S?bastien, Im not 100% sure, but from my reading of the ESP-r methodology I believe the solvers are programmed in a Crank-Nicholson scheme. To use a fully implicit scheme could introduce numerical instability which the solvers may be ill equipped to handle. Regardless, it seems that you have identified the variable in the code that you need to change in order to do this. If there is not already a way to do this on the command line, it is not difficult to add command line arguments to the bps module in the file startup.F. All you would need to do then is put a flag in a COMMON block and override the existing code that sets this variable. I would advise caution however, as my experience of fiddling with the solvers is it tends to have unexpected results! There is a file distributed with the source code, I think somewhere in the manual directory, called something like command_line_hints if memory serves. If there is an existing way to do what you want to do, it will probably be in there. Regards, Andy Cowie ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of S?bastien Brideau [sebastien.brideau at gmail.com] Sent: 02 August 2013 02:20 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] simulation toggles from command line (implicit explicit schemes) Hi all, Is anybody aware of a way to call the bps with a ?flag? that would override the default setting for implicit/explicit scheme? I want to run a simulation where the plant is solved fully implicitly (variable impexp = 1). I am asking because I want to run a ESP-r TRNSYS co-simulation and the input file to the co-simulator requires the command to call the bps. Can?t do it with the GUI. Thanks for any help, S?bastien Brideau sebastien.brideau at gmail.com From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Fri Aug 2 10:59:03 2013 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 10:59:03 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: simulation toggles from command line (implicit explicit schemes) In-Reply-To: References: <000c01ce8f1e$89194a90$9b4bdfb0$@gmail.com>, Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA41301C9AE62E00A@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> Further thoughts.... If this is a one-off test then why not just find the variable that specified the degree of implicitness in the bps code and alter this to a different value and try it out. When you are done with the test the re-constituted the original value. There are potentially dozens of simulation parameters that can be set in the interface of bps. I suspect that supporting dozens of options via command line would not scale. Some of existing parameters (like telling esp-r that solar data is hourly or half-hourly based is included as a tag:data in the model cfg file. There are also the standard parmeters like simulation period, pre-sim days, timesteps that are also held in the model cfg file. Recording a preference for implicitness seems no different. How about we think of likely-useful directives for the model cfg file, Agree on a syntax for such directives and identify good examples of how directives are handled currently. -Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Andrew Cowie [cn06arc at leeds.ac.uk] Sent: 02 August 2013 10:34 To: S?bastien Brideau; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Re: simulation toggles from command line (implicit explicit schemes) Hi S?bastien, Im not 100% sure, but from my reading of the ESP-r methodology I believe the solvers are programmed in a Crank-Nicholson scheme. To use a fully implicit scheme could introduce numerical instability which the solvers may be ill equipped to handle. Regardless, it seems that you have identified the variable in the code that you need to change in order to do this. If there is not already a way to do this on the command line, it is not difficult to add command line arguments to the bps module in the file startup.F. All you would need to do then is put a flag in a COMMON block and override the existing code that sets this variable. I would advise caution however, as my experience of fiddling with the solvers is it tends to have unexpected results! There is a file distributed with the source code, I think somewhere in the manual directory, called something like command_line_hints if memory serves. If there is an existing way to do what you want to do, it will probably be in there. Regards, Andy Cowie ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of S?bastien Brideau [sebastien.brideau at gmail.com] Sent: 02 August 2013 02:20 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] simulation toggles from command line (implicit explicit schemes) Hi all, Is anybody aware of a way to call the bps with a ?flag? that would override the default setting for implicit/explicit scheme? I want to run a simulation where the plant is solved fully implicitly (variable impexp = 1). I am asking because I want to run a ESP-r TRNSYS co-simulation and the input file to the co-simulator requires the command to call the bps. Can?t do it with the GUI. Thanks for any help, S?bastien Brideau sebastien.brideau at gmail.com _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From Alex.Ferguson at NRCan-RNCan.gc.ca Fri Aug 2 14:49:17 2013 From: Alex.Ferguson at NRCan-RNCan.gc.ca (Ferguson, Alex) Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 13:49:17 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: simulation toggles from command line (implicit explicit schemes) In-Reply-To: References: <000c01ce8f1e$89194a90$9b4bdfb0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <6E91C8562E39DD498E62F5AE4BF7224569AFC6BD@S-BSC-MBX3.nrn.nrcan.gc.ca> Revision 6485 on development_branch added the capability you're looking for: http://espr.trac.cvsdude.com/esp-r/changeset/6485/branches/development_branch To use it, add the following to your .cfg file (typically below the *clm/*stdmscldb/*stdpdb/*stdsbem tags): *sim-toggle bld-soln-implicitness 1.000 I'm not sure about your motivations for using the fully-implicit solution, but I added this feature because I observed the default Crank-Nicolson often produces undamped oscillations in the predicted zone heat injection and extraction. Users are often oblivious because --- by default --- ESP-r runs with time-step-averaging enabled. But the oscillations to produce tangible effects when you add an explicit or implicit plant model with non-linear performance curves or discrete operating modes. HVAC energy consumption predictions can be inaccurate as well. When stable, the Crank-Nicolson method is more efficient and more accurate than the fully-implicit method. But the fully-implicit method is unconditionally stable. It approximates the true analytic solution as long as the time steps are sufficiently small. For these reasons, I use the fully implicit method at all times, and I specify a smaller-than-necessary time step. It's inefficient, but I have more confidence in the results. - Alex -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Andrew Cowie Sent: August 2, 2013 05:35 To: S?bastien Brideau; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Re: simulation toggles from command line (implicit explicit schemes) Hi S?bastien, Im not 100% sure, but from my reading of the ESP-r methodology I believe the solvers are programmed in a Crank-Nicholson scheme. To use a fully implicit scheme could introduce numerical instability which the solvers may be ill equipped to handle. Regardless, it seems that you have identified the variable in the code that you need to change in order to do this. If there is not already a way to do this on the command line, it is not difficult to add command line arguments to the bps module in the file startup.F. All you would need to do then is put a flag in a COMMON block and override the existing code that sets this variable. I would advise caution however, as my experience of fiddling with the solvers is it tends to have unexpected results! There is a file distributed with the source code, I think somewhere in the manual directory, called something like command_line_hints if memory serves. If there is an existing way to do what you want to do, it will probably be in there. Regards, Andy Cowie ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of S?bastien Brideau [sebastien.brideau at gmail.com] Sent: 02 August 2013 02:20 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] simulation toggles from command line (implicit explicit schemes) Hi all, Is anybody aware of a way to call the bps with a "flag" that would override the default setting for implicit/explicit scheme? I want to run a simulation where the plant is solved fully implicitly (variable impexp = 1). I am asking because I want to run a ESP-r TRNSYS co-simulation and the input file to the co-simulator requires the command to call the bps. Can't do it with the GUI. Thanks for any help, S?bastien Brideau sebastien.brideau at gmail.com _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From sr880710 at dal.ca Tue Aug 6 19:11:58 2013 From: sr880710 at dal.ca (Sara Nikoofard) Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2013 15:11:58 -0300 Subject: [esp-r] xml report problem Message-ID: <001b01ce92d0$70ccb5c0$52662140$@dal.ca> Hi All, I have a problem with xml reporting. I am using the latest version of development_branch which uses the new xml reporting format (h3kmodule.f90 and Addtoreport function). When I define the value of as tree, I can see the results in my xml report but when I change it to flat it doesn't give me anything other than the names of variables in xml reporting. I didn't have this problem with add_to_xml_reporting function before. Any idea what I can do to get the same result as before with flat value for . I attached the input.xml and xml report with flat value for new format (1178A00245_flat_new.xml.orig) and xml report with flat value with old format ((1178A00245.xml.orig) that I want to get. Thanks, Sara ------------------------------------------------------------- Sara Nikoofard, PhD Postdoctoral fellow Mechanical Engineering Department, Room C254B Dalhousie University, Halifax, NS Phone: (902) 494-3165 email: s.nikoofard at dal.ca -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: input.xml Type: text/xml Size: 2634 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130806/adaeb692/attachment-0001.xml From achim.geissler at intergga.ch Tue Aug 6 20:33:22 2013 From: achim.geissler at intergga.ch (Achim Geissler) Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2013 21:33:22 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: xml report problem In-Reply-To: <001b01ce92d0$70ccb5c0$52662140$@dal.ca> References: <001b01ce92d0$70ccb5c0$52662140$@dal.ca> Message-ID: <3827B8B7-CB7A-4F18-B38C-0E184DC54BA9@intergga.ch> Hi Sara all I can say is that this is a reported bug (in any case, I reported it to core_developers some time in April). However, I only had problems for the summary file, not the hourly data file. I am also not really sure what effect "flat" vs. "tree" really has / had. The code does seem to treat "flat" quite tersely (see TReportsManager.cpp, lines 2202 ff. as a likely place where things may be going wrong). Best Achim On Aug 6, 2013, at 8:11 PM, "Sara Nikoofard" wrote: > Hi All, > > I have a problem with xml reporting. I am using the latest version of development_branch which uses the new xml reporting format (h3kmodule.f90 and Addtoreport function). When I define the value of as tree, I can see the results in my xml report but when I change it to flat it doesn?t give me anything other than the names of variables in xml reporting. I didn?t have this problem with add_to_xml_reporting function before. Any idea what I can do to get the same result as before with flat value for . > > I attached the input.xml and xml report with flat value for new format (1178A00245_flat_new.xml.orig) and xml report with flat value with old format ((1178A00245.xml.orig) that I want to get. > > Thanks, > Sara > ------------------------------------------------------------- > Sara Nikoofard, PhD > Postdoctoral fellow > Mechanical Engineering Department, Room C254B > Dalhousie University, Halifax, NS > Phone: (902) 494-3165 > email: s.nikoofard at dal.ca > > > <1178A00245.xml.orig><1178A00245_flat_new.xml.orig>_______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r achim.geissler at intergga.ch -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130806/ca1a1ea4/attachment.html From sr880710 at dal.ca Wed Aug 7 00:53:10 2013 From: sr880710 at dal.ca (Sara Nikoofard) Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2013 20:53:10 -0300 Subject: [esp-r] Re: xml report problem In-Reply-To: <3827B8B7-CB7A-4F18-B38C-0E184DC54BA9@intergga.ch> References: <001b01ce92d0$70ccb5c0$52662140$@dal.ca> <3827B8B7-CB7A-4F18-B38C-0E184DC54BA9@intergga.ch> Message-ID: <004e01ce9300$1c4f1170$54ed3450$@dal.ca> Hi Achim, Thanks for the answer. I need the "flat" mode because of post-processing that we have in our model. I will dig in more to see if I can find the problem. If not I have to change our code to use the "tree" mode. Cheers, Sara From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Achim Geissler Sent: August-06-13 4:33 PM To: Sara Nikoofard Cc: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Re: xml report problem Hi Sara all I can say is that this is a reported bug (in any case, I reported it to core_developers some time in April). However, I only had problems for the summary file, not the hourly data file. I am also not really sure what effect "flat" vs. "tree" really has / had. The code does seem to treat "flat" quite tersely (see TReportsManager.cpp, lines 2202 ff. as a likely place where things may be going wrong). Best Achim On Aug 6, 2013, at 8:11 PM, "Sara Nikoofard" wrote: Hi All, I have a problem with xml reporting. I am using the latest version of development_branch which uses the new xml reporting format (h3kmodule.f90 and Addtoreport function). When I define the value of as tree, I can see the results in my xml report but when I change it to flat it doesn't give me anything other than the names of variables in xml reporting. I didn't have this problem with add_to_xml_reporting function before. Any idea what I can do to get the same result as before with flat value for . I attached the input.xml and xml report with flat value for new format (1178A00245_flat_new.xml.orig) and xml report with flat value with old format ((1178A00245.xml.orig) that I want to get. Thanks, Sara ------------------------------------------------------------- Sara Nikoofard, PhD Postdoctoral fellow Mechanical Engineering Department, Room C254B Dalhousie University, Halifax, NS Phone: (902) 494-3165 email: s.nikoofard at dal.ca <1178A00245.xml.orig><1178A00245_flat_new.xml.orig>______________ _________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r achim.geissler at intergga.ch -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130806/d7addefb/attachment.html From cristina.aloisio at gmail.com Wed Aug 14 11:26:53 2013 From: cristina.aloisio at gmail.com (Cristina Aloisio) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 18:26:53 +0800 Subject: [esp-r] sensible heating and sensible cooling results Message-ID: Hi all, I would like to ask something about the energy delivered results because probably I have a problem in the obtained values. When I display the results about sensible heating and sensible cooling for all the year I have a higher number in cooling required hours than in the heating required even if I change the climate type considering a cold climate like Berlin for example. I tried to simulate cellular_bc example, changing the climate location in Berlin, in order to see if there was some mistake in my model, but I have the same trend, the cooling degree hours are more than the heating (No. of Hr.required for heating= 1058.5 - for cooling: 2185). Could this be normal for some reason? Otherwise, how can I solve this problem? Thank you Cristina -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130814/aa356c45/attachment.html From Camilo.Diaz at WSPGroup.com Wed Aug 14 13:52:02 2013 From: Camilo.Diaz at WSPGroup.com (Diaz, Camilo) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 13:52:02 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: sensible heating and sensible cooling results In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Cristina - one thing to check is your internal gains. In some cases this is the dominant factor rather than the external climate. Camilo From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Cristina Aloisio Sent: 14 August 2013 11:27 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] sensible heating and sensible cooling results Hi all, I would like to ask something about the energy delivered results because probably I have a problem in the obtained values. When I display the results about sensible heating and sensible cooling for all the year I have a higher number in cooling required hours than in the heating required even if I change the climate type considering a cold climate like Berlin for example. I tried to simulate cellular_bc example, changing the climate location in Berlin, in order to see if there was some mistake in my model, but I have the same trend, the cooling degree hours are more than the heating (No. of Hr.required for heating= 1058.5 - for cooling: 2185). Could this be normal for some reason? Otherwise, how can I solve this problem? Thank you Cristina -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130814/ddd8bf04/attachment.html From helia.taheri at ut.ac.ir Sun Aug 18 07:53:03 2013 From: helia.taheri at ut.ac.ir (helia.taheri at ut.ac.ir) Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2013 11:23:03 +0430 (IRDT) Subject: [esp-r] .spf File Message-ID: <16518.5.34.212.150.1376808783.squirrel@utservm.ut.ac.ir> Hi, I want to use .spf file and edit it. How can I have .spf file from my ESP-r file? and how can I after editing, import it to ESP-r file? Thanks alot. Best, Helia Taheri From cristina.aloisio at gmail.com Sun Aug 18 14:04:09 2013 From: cristina.aloisio at gmail.com (Cristina Aloisio) Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2013 21:04:09 +0800 Subject: [esp-r] phase change materials Message-ID: Hi all, I'm trying to place phase change materials on some layers of the external wall construction of my model. Once I have created and edited a new special component selecting the phase change material and the walls on which locate this, when I run the simulation I have the following warning: Could not find C:\Esru\Models\pcm2\cfg\PCM It seems that the new component isn't linked to the walls. How can I solve this problem? Thank you Cristina -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130818/1dcd052e/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Mon Aug 19 10:04:44 2013 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 10:04:44 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: phase change materials In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA41301D121D7FFD2@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> A question about PCM.... Please confirm which version of ESP-r you are using. When the Project Manager start up there is a message about the revision number in the text feedback area. The message indicates that it is looking for a file named PCM. Is that a name that you recognize? Does a file exist in that location? Does the file contain any information? -Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Cristina Aloisio [cristina.aloisio at gmail.com] Sent: 18 August 2013 14:04 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] phase change materials Hi all, I'm trying to place phase change materials on some layers of the external wall construction of my model. Once I have created and edited a new special component selecting the phase change material and the walls on which locate this, when I run the simulation I have the following warning: Could not find C:\Esru\Models\pcm2\cfg\PCM It seems that the new component isn't linked to the walls. How can I solve this problem? Thank you Cristina From achim.geissler at intergga.ch Mon Aug 19 17:41:25 2013 From: achim.geissler at intergga.ch (Achim Geissler) Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 18:41:25 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: .spf File In-Reply-To: <16518.5.34.212.150.1376808783.squirrel@utservm.ut.ac.ir> References: <16518.5.34.212.150.1376808783.squirrel@utservm.ut.ac.ir> Message-ID: Dear Helia, if you set up a "special materials" file via prj (Project Manager), then your model configuration file will have the .spf file (with a name you set during setting this up) linked in (you will find a line like "*spf pcm_4.spf" in the config file. ESP-r places the .spf file in the cfg subfolder of the model structure by default. As long as you do not change the name of the file, this file will be used by ESP-r. No additional import is necessary. Hope that helps. Cheers Achim On Aug 18, 2013, at 8:53 AM, helia.taheri at ut.ac.ir wrote: > > Hi, > > I want to use .spf file and edit it. How can I have .spf file from my > ESP-r file? and how can I after editing, import it to ESP-r file? > > Thanks alot. > Best, > Helia Taheri > > > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > achim.geissler at intergga.ch -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130819/0d7880f9/attachment.html From Liam.OBrien at carleton.ca Fri Aug 30 20:22:47 2013 From: Liam.OBrien at carleton.ca (Liam O'Brien) Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2013 15:22:47 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] Canada's building performance simulation conference - eSim 2014, Ottawa, Canada - Call for Abstracts In-Reply-To: <5220E99D.7050609@cunet.carleton.ca> References: <5220E99D.7050609@cunet.carleton.ca> Message-ID: <5220F107.7080602@cunet.carleton.ca> Dear Colleagues, It's my pleasure to continue the legacy of Canada's building performance simulation conference, /eSim/. Historically, eSim has hosted hundreds of building simulation experts from Canada and around the world. eSim 2014 will occur at Carleton University in Ottawa on May 8 and 9, 2014 with workshops on the day before and after. The online submission system is now live (esim.ca) and *250 word abstracts are due by Sept. 27, 2013*. I look forward to your submissions and welcome you in advance to Ottawa at eSim 2014. Liam O'Brien, Chair, /eSim 2014/, Ottawa, Canada -- William (Liam) O'Brien, PhD Assistant Professor, Architectural Conservation and Sustainability Engineering Carleton University Canal Building, 5208 (613) 520-2600 ext. 8037 http://humanbuildinginteractionlab.wordpress.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130830/786a79d4/attachment.html From helia.taheri at ut.ac.ir Sun Sep 1 08:30:40 2013 From: helia.taheri at ut.ac.ir (helia.taheri at ut.ac.ir) Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2013 12:00:40 +0430 (IRDT) Subject: [esp-r] Change Thermophysical Properties Message-ID: <45723.5.34.212.150.1378020640.squirrel@utservm.ut.ac.ir> Hi, I want to simulate a movable insulation for a thermal mass, like PCM. I know that I can use change thermophysical property in ESP-r. I have some question: 1- As you know for adding PCM I should use active materials and add PCM in a construction. I want to know is it possible that I have a construction with PCM and change the thermophysical properties? 2- If I can do it with PCM, does ESP-r assign the heat that PCM saves in itself in a period of time to the switched construction? (I mean that if I have PCM in the switchable construction, the PCM in the second construction will be the PCM in the first one, with the heat that it stored in itself? I really need your guidance. Thanks alot, Best, Helia From achim.geissler at intergga.ch Sun Sep 1 10:54:24 2013 From: achim.geissler at intergga.ch (Achim Geissler) Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2013 11:54:24 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Change Thermophysical Properties In-Reply-To: <45723.5.34.212.150.1378020640.squirrel@utservm.ut.ac.ir> References: <45723.5.34.212.150.1378020640.squirrel@utservm.ut.ac.ir> Message-ID: Dear Helia that is a very interesting question. Without ever having tried this myself, I would still expect that 1- as the thermophysical property changing is independent of the PCM setup, you will be able to set this up, yes. 2- the specific (sensible and latent) heat capacity of the zone/surface/layer you have added the PCM to via .spf file will be used disregarding the overridden layer properties in the changing thermophysical properties. I.e., the PCM will always be present in terms of thermal capacity. Probably setting up a model with side-by-side surfaces which use thermophysical property changing but only one of which has PCM added is a good idea to check what actually happens. Good luck! Best Achim On Sep 1, 2013, at 9:30 AM, helia.taheri at ut.ac.ir wrote: > Hi, > > I want to simulate a movable insulation for a thermal mass, like PCM. > I know that I can use change thermophysical property in ESP-r. > I have some question: > 1- As you know for adding PCM I should use active materials and add PCM in > a construction. I want to know is it possible that I have a construction > with PCM and change the thermophysical properties? > 2- If I can do it with PCM, does ESP-r assign the heat that PCM saves in > itself in a period of time to the switched construction? (I mean that if I > have PCM in the switchable construction, the PCM in the second > construction will be the PCM in the first one, with the heat that it > stored in itself? > > I really need your guidance. > > Thanks alot, > Best, > Helia > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > achim.geissler at intergga.ch From achim.geissler at intergga.ch Sun Sep 1 12:50:17 2013 From: achim.geissler at intergga.ch (Achim Geissler) Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2013 13:50:17 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: My question about change thermophysical properties In-Reply-To: <11664.5.34.212.150.1378031705.squirrel@utservm.ut.ac.ir> References: <11664.5.34.212.150.1378031705.squirrel@utservm.ut.ac.ir> Message-ID: <3E2C5A62-63CD-458A-A537-F0A99CD7A7C8@intergga.ch> Dear Helia 1- have you looked in the CookBook? Also, this feature has been available quite a long time and should be covered in the version 9 users manual (available at ESRU web site). 2- yes, I would expect that specific heat and thermal conductance of the PCM will be used regardless of the changed construction properties. All other properties should be used from the changed set. Be aware that changing the layer thickness by thermophysical property control will not increase/decrease the amount of PCM in that layer, I expect. 3- either split up a surface in your model into two surfaces of identical size or, thinking about it, make two zones side by side - then the energy calculations will also show the difference between the two scenarios and may give additional information on what is actually going on. Two "shoe box models" should suffice. Probably there actually will be coding necessary to really "remove" the PCM for a switched construction - or better "move it to a different surface" is probably what happens? Maybe a short description of what you are actually moving in real life would help (others in the group also, never give up hope) to help. Best Achim On Sep 1, 2013, at 12:35 PM, helia.taheri at ut.ac.ir wrote: > Dear Prof. Achim, > > Thanks alot for your encouragement and your guidance. > Some question I have about your answers and suggestions: > 1- About your first answer, How can I read exactly about change > thermophysical properties in ESP-r? I try it by myself but I really need > guidance! > > 2- You mean that it isn't important what is the specific heat of the layer > that I want to put PCM instead of it? The specific heat will be inputed > for PCM, but Density and Thickness will be as the same as the layer that I > want to put PCM in it, am I right? > > 3- I didn't understand your suggestion in the sentence: "Probably setting > up a model with side-by-side surfaces which use thermophysical property > changing but only one of which has PCM added is a good idea to check what > actually happens" Side by side? what do you mean exactly? > > It is very important for me to do that. If ESP-r can't do that, May be I > try to do coding!!! I don't know!!! > Thanks alot, > > Best, > Helia > > > > > achim.geissler at intergga.ch From asaee at dal.ca Wed Sep 4 16:35:37 2013 From: asaee at dal.ca (Rasoul Asaee) Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2013 15:35:37 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Segmentation fault Message-ID: <582be20370df4ee0a13bf394e987ba9a@BY2PR03MB192.namprd03.prod.outlook.com> Hello, I updated esp-r to development branch @9214 on Xubuntu 11.10. When I run a model with explicit plant following error is generated. In some cases simulation is completed and the segmentation fault terminates the xml output generation. Any ideas? *** stack smashing detected ***: bps terminated Segmentation fault Many thanks for your time. Regards, Rasoul -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130904/b24c2867/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Thu Sep 5 10:36:25 2013 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2013 10:36:25 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Segmentation fault In-Reply-To: <582be20370df4ee0a13bf394e987ba9a@BY2PR03MB192.namprd03.prod.outlook.com> References: <582be20370df4ee0a13bf394e987ba9a@BY2PR03MB192.namprd03.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA41301D121D80015@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> A suggestion: On some computers there is a sensitivity to the information in the input.xml file used by bps to setup what is written to XML. Look for the line with Hi, My name is Stefano Zaccaroni, currently full-time student at University of Bolonia ( UNIBO ), Italy. I'm actually working on my final project with Researcher Marinosci Cosimo. This project is about implementing Esp_R for studies related to mechanical ventilation in building. Unfortunalty, I've been founding several difficulties on using ESP-R. This is why I guess that using the mailing list would be useful for me. Naturaly, before writing my issues, i wanted to present myself. I'm actually using both the ESP-R Cookbook Exercises Book and the Cookbook Guide Book.? I'm using a version for native windows ( v11 7 4333 ) My current version of windows is WINDOWS 7 HOME PREMIUM 64 bit. Build information: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? - SVN Source: ? ? ? development_branch at r4333 (locally modified) ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? ? - Platform: ? ? ? ? i686:MINGW32_NT-5.0:1.0.11(0.46/3/2) ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? - Compilers: ? ? ? ?gcc/g++/g77 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? ? - Graphics Library: GTK ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? ? - XML output: ? ? ? Unsupported ? ? ? ? ? I didn't download the ESP-R software directly from your website, because my Professor passed it to me with a precompiled installer file ( basically an exe file ) My current expectation is to learn how to use basically ESP-R, implementing it for some mechanical ventilation studies for my final project. Thank you for your time and help, Stefano -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130911/0665c49c/attachment.html From cn06arc at leeds.ac.uk Wed Sep 11 09:26:27 2013 From: cn06arc at leeds.ac.uk (Andrew Cowie) Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2013 09:26:27 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Help Esp-R Message-ID: <24F5BBEC-46FE-40FF-A24C-A588F7F1B6E8@leeds.ac.uk> Hi Stefano, >From my own experience, I found that the best way to learn the use of ESP-r is to work methodically through the cookbook, but also to use the exemplar models as much as you can so you understand what everything is actually doing in your models. As I understand it there are a wealth of very helpful "how to" videos for ESP-r online, I'm sure someone better informed than I can link you. If you encounter any specific problems or have any questions that you cannot find answers for, or even any suggestions for developments, that is what this forum is here for; I can say from experience that these guys are exceptionally helpful. Welcome to the ESP-r community, and good luck! Regards, Andy Cowie Sent from my HTC ----- Reply message ----- From: "stefano Zaccaroni" To: "esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk" Subject: [esp-r] Help Esp-R Date: Wed, Sep 11, 2013 06:50 Hi, My name is Stefano Zaccaroni, currently full-time student at University of Bolonia ( UNIBO ), Italy. I'm actually working on my final project with Researcher Marinosci Cosimo. This project is about implementing Esp_R for studies related to mechanical ventilation in building. Unfortunalty, I've been founding several difficulties on using ESP-R. This is why I guess that using the mailing list would be useful for me. Naturaly, before writing my issues, i wanted to present myself. I'm actually using both the ESP-R Cookbook Exercises Book and the Cookbook Guide Book. I'm using a version for native windows ( v11 7 4333 ) My current version of windows is WINDOWS 7 HOME PREMIUM 64 bit. Build information: - SVN Source: development_branch at r4333 (locally modified) - Platform: i686:MINGW32_NT-5.0:1.0.11(0.46/3/2) - Compilers: gcc/g++/g77 - Graphics Library: GTK - XML output: Unsupported I didn't download the ESP-R software directly from your website, because my Professor passed it to me with a precompiled installer file ( basically an exe file ) My current expectation is to learn how to use basically ESP-R, implementing it for some mechanical ventilation studies for my final project. Thank you for your time and help, Stefano From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Wed Sep 11 09:57:18 2013 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2013 08:57:18 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Help Esp-R In-Reply-To: <24F5BBEC-46FE-40FF-A24C-A588F7F1B6E8@leeds.ac.uk> References: <24F5BBEC-46FE-40FF-A24C-A588F7F1B6E8@leeds.ac.uk> Message-ID: You are using an OLD version of ESP-r. I in a separate email I will send a link to an installer for a newer version of ESP-r that has been compiled for W7 as well as the current version of the ESP-r Cookbook. There are also links that I can send you for some video tutorials if you let me know. If you have specific questions the ESP-r list is a good place to ask questions. Regards, Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] on behalf of Andrew Cowie [cn06arc at leeds.ac.uk] Sent: 11 September 2013 09:26 To: stefano Zaccaroni; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Re: Help Esp-R Hi Stefano, >From my own experience, I found that the best way to learn the use of ESP-r is to work methodically through the cookbook, but also to use the exemplar models as much as you can so you understand what everything is actually doing in your models. As I understand it there are a wealth of very helpful "how to" videos for ESP-r online, I'm sure someone better informed than I can link you. If you encounter any specific problems or have any questions that you cannot find answers for, or even any suggestions for developments, that is what this forum is here for; I can say from experience that these guys are exceptionally helpful. Welcome to the ESP-r community, and good luck! Regards, Andy Cowie Sent from my HTC ----- Reply message ----- From: "stefano Zaccaroni" To: "esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk" Subject: [esp-r] Help Esp-R Date: Wed, Sep 11, 2013 06:50 Hi, My name is Stefano Zaccaroni, currently full-time student at University of Bolonia ( UNIBO ), Italy. I'm actually working on my final project with Researcher Marinosci Cosimo. This project is about implementing Esp_R for studies related to mechanical ventilation in building. Unfortunalty, I've been founding several difficulties on using ESP-R. This is why I guess that using the mailing list would be useful for me. Naturaly, before writing my issues, i wanted to present myself. I'm actually using both the ESP-R Cookbook Exercises Book and the Cookbook Guide Book. I'm using a version for native windows ( v11 7 4333 ) My current version of windows is WINDOWS 7 HOME PREMIUM 64 bit. Build information: - SVN Source: development_branch at r4333 (locally modified) - Platform: i686:MINGW32_NT-5.0:1.0.11(0.46/3/2) - Compilers: gcc/g++/g77 - Graphics Library: GTK - XML output: Unsupported I didn't download the ESP-R software directly from your website, because my Professor passed it to me with a precompiled installer file ( basically an exe file ) My current expectation is to learn how to use basically ESP-R, implementing it for some mechanical ventilation studies for my final project. Thank you for your time and help, Stefano _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From cosimo.marinosci at unibo.it Wed Sep 11 17:15:25 2013 From: cosimo.marinosci at unibo.it (Cosimo Marinosci) Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2013 16:15:25 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] R: Re: Help Esp-R In-Reply-To: References: <24F5BBEC-46FE-40FF-A24C-A588F7F1B6E8@leeds.ac.uk>, Message-ID: <4427A62E98118740A3CDEBE9FC0729D0340737A2@E10-MBX2-CS.personale.dir.unibo.it> Dear Jon, Dear Andrew, Thank you for your help. Unfortunately, there was a misunderstanding. Now, I have successfully resolved the issue. Regards, C. Marinosci ________________________________________ Da: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] per conto di Jon Hand [jon at esru.strath.ac.uk] Inviato: mercoled? 11 settembre 2013 10:57 A: stefano Zaccaroni; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Oggetto: [esp-r] Re: Help Esp-R You are using an OLD version of ESP-r. I in a separate email I will send a link to an installer for a newer version of ESP-r that has been compiled for W7 as well as the current version of the ESP-r Cookbook. There are also links that I can send you for some video tutorials if you let me know. If you have specific questions the ESP-r list is a good place to ask questions. Regards, Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] on behalf of Andrew Cowie [cn06arc at leeds.ac.uk] Sent: 11 September 2013 09:26 To: stefano Zaccaroni; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Re: Help Esp-R Hi Stefano, >From my own experience, I found that the best way to learn the use of ESP-r is to work methodically through the cookbook, but also to use the exemplar models as much as you can so you understand what everything is actually doing in your models. As I understand it there are a wealth of very helpful "how to" videos for ESP-r online, I'm sure someone better informed than I can link you. If you encounter any specific problems or have any questions that you cannot find answers for, or even any suggestions for developments, that is what this forum is here for; I can say from experience that these guys are exceptionally helpful. Welcome to the ESP-r community, and good luck! Regards, Andy Cowie Sent from my HTC ----- Reply message ----- From: "stefano Zaccaroni" To: "esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk" Subject: [esp-r] Help Esp-R Date: Wed, Sep 11, 2013 06:50 Hi, My name is Stefano Zaccaroni, currently full-time student at University of Bolonia ( UNIBO ), Italy. I'm actually working on my final project with Researcher Marinosci Cosimo. This project is about implementing Esp_R for studies related to mechanical ventilation in building. Unfortunalty, I've been founding several difficulties on using ESP-R. This is why I guess that using the mailing list would be useful for me. Naturaly, before writing my issues, i wanted to present myself. I'm actually using both the ESP-R Cookbook Exercises Book and the Cookbook Guide Book. I'm using a version for native windows ( v11 7 4333 ) My current version of windows is WINDOWS 7 HOME PREMIUM 64 bit. Build information: - SVN Source: development_branch at r4333 (locally modified) - Platform: i686:MINGW32_NT-5.0:1.0.11(0.46/3/2) - Compilers: gcc/g++/g77 - Graphics Library: GTK - XML output: Unsupported I didn't download the ESP-R software directly from your website, because my Professor passed it to me with a precompiled installer file ( basically an exe file ) My current expectation is to learn how to use basically ESP-R, implementing it for some mechanical ventilation studies for my final project. Thank you for your time and help, Stefano _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From zakstevenson at yahoo.it Wed Sep 11 07:30:35 2013 From: zakstevenson at yahoo.it (stefano Zaccaroni) Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2013 07:30:35 +0100 (BST) Subject: [esp-r] Help Esp-R In-Reply-To: <1378866397.65683.YahooMailNeo@web28903.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> References: <1378866397.65683.YahooMailNeo@web28903.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1378881035.44448.YahooMailNeo@web28904.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Thank you again for your help. One error when I was trying to build a geometrical zone. I followed exactly all the instruction given in the Cookbook handbook ( pages 34 - 39 ) step by step, but the program give me this error : Area of zone surf 2 is less than 0.00001 m^2. Other geometrical properties may be incorrect. After receiving messages for every surf zone, I checked for the vertex coordinates. It seems that the program is not recognising the Y coordinates. I don't know why. I also tried to rewrite the vertices correctly but the result is also the same: all the Y coordinates are zero. What can I do? Again, the information about my installation : using windows native version 11 v 7 ESP-r Project Manager (prj). ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? This is a development copy of prj, based on ESP-r release 11.7. ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? Copyright 2001-2007 Energy Systems Research Unit. ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? Build information: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? - SVN Source: ? ? ? development_branch at r4333 (locally modified) ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? ? - Platform: ? ? ? ? i686:MINGW32_NT-5.0:1.0.11(0.46/3/2) ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? - Compilers: ? ? ? ?gcc/g++/g77 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? ? - Graphics Library: GTK ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? ? - XML output: ? ? ? Unsupported ? ? ? ? ?? WINDOWS 7 HOME PREMIUM 64 bit -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130911/835fe3c2/attachment-0001.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: error 1.bmp Type: image/bmp Size: 3148854 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130911/835fe3c2/attachment-0002.bin -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Error 2.bmp Type: image/bmp Size: 3148854 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130911/835fe3c2/attachment-0003.bin From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Wed Sep 11 21:29:07 2013 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2013 20:29:07 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Help Esp-R - new links for ESP-r documents and training materials Message-ID: FIRST: ensure that your computer operating system locale is USA or UK so that real numbers use a dot for the decimal place rather than a comma for the decimal. A comma decimal will rubbish the model instantly. ESP-r will be very confused and will not work. version 11.7 is old. Here is a link to a version that is a few weeks old: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/17785121/ESPr_Installers/ESP-r_setup_native_windows_w7_v12_0_9411.exe Below are some links to documentation and training videos: Links to ESP-r documents and video tutorials The ESP-r Cookbook: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/17785121/cookbook_july_2011.pdf Summary of videos: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/17785121/video_tutorials/video_scenarios.rtf Overview of ESP-r: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/17785121/video_tutorials/the_prj_tour_highlights_wc.mp4 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/17785121/video_tutorials/Ten_minute_prj_tour.mp4 Databases: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/17785121/video_tutorials/Ten_minute_new_material_ws.mp4 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/17785121/video_tutorials/ten_minute_from_section.mp4 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/17785121/video_tutorials/Ten_minute_mlc_change.mp4 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/17785121/video_tutorials/lbnl_win63_optics_use_wc.mp4 Geometry: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/17785121/video_tutorials/geometry_transforms_wc.mp4 Flow networks: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/17785121/video_tutorials/Ten_minute_design_flow_network_wc.mp4 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/17785121/video_tutorials/creating_flow_net_wc.mp4 Validation: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/17785121/video_tutorials/tm_running_tester_wc.mp4 Development: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/17785121/ESP-r_developers_doc_2012.pdf https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/17785121/video_tutorials/overview_of_windows_dev_folders_wc.mp4 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/17785121/video_tutorials/Ten_min_compile_test_version_wc.mp4 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/17785121/video_tutorials/debug_setup_and_tour_wc.mp4 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/17785121/video_tutorials/ddd_debug_session_wc.mp4 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/17785121/video_tutorials/syntax_check_wc.mp4 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/17785121/video_tutorials/svn_merge_from_dev.mp4 Regards, Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] on behalf of stefano Zaccaroni [zakstevenson at yahoo.it] Sent: 11 September 2013 07:30 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Help Esp-R Thank you again for your help. One error when I was trying to build a geometrical zone. I followed exactly all the instruction given in the Cookbook handbook ( pages 34 - 39 ) step by step, but the program give me this error : Area of zone surf 2 is less than 0.00001 m^2. Other geometrical properties may be incorrect. After receiving messages for every surf zone, I checked for the vertex coordinates. It seems that the program is not recognising the Y coordinates. I don't know why. I also tried to rewrite the vertices correctly but the result is also the same: all the Y coordinates are zero. What can I do? Again, the information about my installation : using windows native version 11 v 7 ESP-r Project Manager (prj). This is a development copy of prj, based on ESP-r release 11.7. Copyright 2001-2007 Energy Systems Research Unit. Build information: - SVN Source: development_branch at r4333 (locally modified) - Platform: i686:MINGW32_NT-5.0:1.0.11(0.46/3/2) - Compilers: gcc/g++/g77 - Graphics Library: GTK - XML output: Unsupported WINDOWS 7 HOME PREMIUM 64 bit From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Mon Sep 16 10:35:48 2013 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2013 09:35:48 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Segmentation fault - how to debug Message-ID: An additional suggestion - if an ESP-r module is crashing and you want to find out why then consider re-compiling ESP-r with the --debug option and then run the application via a debug environment such as gdb or DDD. Here are links to tutorials on the debug process: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/17785121/video_tutorials/debug_setup_and_tour_wc.mp4 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/17785121/video_tutorials/ddd_debug_session_wc.mp4 Regards, Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] on behalf of Rasoul Asaee [asaee at dal.ca] Sent: 04 September 2013 16:35 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Segmentation fault Hello, I updated esp-r to development branch @9214 on Xubuntu 11.10. When I run a model with explicit plant following error is generated. In some cases simulation is completed and the segmentation fault terminates the xml output generation. Any ideas? *** stack smashing detected ***: bps terminated Segmentation fault Many thanks for your time. Regards, Rasoul From alaaliag at yahoo.com Fri Sep 20 20:34:14 2013 From: alaaliag at yahoo.com (alaa liag) Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2013 20:34:14 +0100 (BST) Subject: [esp-r] Re: PCM In-Reply-To: <54759.5.34.212.150.1379702603.squirrel@utservm.ut.ac.ir> References: <45972.5.34.212.150.1377432477.squirrel@utservm.ut.ac.ir> <1379686875.229.YahooMailNeo@web171701.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> <54759.5.34.212.150.1379702603.squirrel@utservm.ut.ac.ir> Message-ID: <1379705654.11154.YahooMailNeo@web171701.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Hi Helia, For simulation and results analysis: Please follow the steps below: From: ? brows/edit/simulate menu------Actions menu----- select simulation from simulation controller menu -----chose integrated simulation(from here you can adjusting ?the simulation starting and ending time and also the time step for simulation (summer / winter/period) or keep it as default ---chose run silently for fast simulation ? brows/edit/simulate menu------Actions menu----- select results analysis Results analysis-----select the results file path---then select graphs Graph facilities menu-----select zones: Zone list (select the zone name) and exist Return to Time: var graph menu ----select time series plot menu Select Temperature? select zone db T----select draw graph The temperature via time graphed for the selected zone (s) I hope these steps satisfying your request. Regards Alaa ? ? Dr. Alaa Al-Mosawi ? ? ? ? ??alaaliag at yahoo.com Head of the Mechanical Engineering Department College of Engineering Al-Qadisiya University Al-Diwaniyah City, Iraq ? ________________________________ From: "helia.taheri at ut.ac.ir" To: alaa liag Sent: Friday, 20 September 2013, 21:43 Subject: Re: PCM Hi Dear Dr. Alaa, I hope that you enjoy your trip to Iran. Thanks alot for your complete answer. I add PCM in my model. I use the Case600 ASHRAE140 for that. Now I want to simulate. I want to have a inside temperature (for the main zone). I go to the simulation, but I can't do that. It is very useful for me if you help me. Thanks alot and again. Best, Helia > Hi Helia,? Sorry for delay, finally I am in home.?? 1- Does ESP-r insert > PCM instead od the?insulation (Brick/PCM/Air/Gyp)?? or divide insulation > in two parts and add?PCM between two parts > (Brick/2.5cmInsulation/PCM/2.5cmInsulation/Air/Gyp)? Or if I add it in the > node number 5 (the node between Insulation and air) what will happen? And > if it added PCM what is the thickness of it?? OK, the answer is that: > when you select the node (whatever the location (number)) the esp-r > modifying the layer properties (k, cp, density) with PCM thermal > properties. The thickness of the selected layer will be the same. ESP-r > adjusting all the thermal properties according to the PCM final phase.? > My answer above suppose you know that: each layer represented by a one > central node and two in its boundaries shared with other adjacent two > layers (left and right). For the esp-r active materials, esp will asking > the user to select a specific layer by entering its central node number > only.?Please, fore more information about esp-r download esp-r cookbook > from esru website.?? 2- when I add PCM in one of the nodes of the > construction, I don't know how can I figure out that is it add > correctly??? you can simulate the model ?with and without PCM and > choose the node temperature results to see the differences.?? ?I mean > that, Should I add PCM in one of the constructions and assign the > construction to some of the surfaces? I don't know what you mean here!? 3- > If I want to add PCM for more than one wall how can I do that?? Yes, you > can add PCM in more than one wall. Also, yoy can added PCM in different > layers in the same wall. ?? Regards.? Alaa? Dr. Alaa Al-Mosawi ? ? ? > ? ??alaaliag at yahoo.com Head of the Mechanical Engineering Department > College of Engineering Al-Qadisiya University Al-Diwaniyah City, Iraq ? > ________________________________? From: "helia.taheri at ut.ac.ir"? To: > "alaaliag at yahoo.com"? Sent: Sunday, 25 August 2013, 15:07 Subject: Dear > Alaa, I really need your guidance? ? Hi Dear Alaa,? How are you? Did you > travel to Iran and visit Mashhad and Tehran? Did you enjoy it? I hope that > you had a good time here.? I have a problem in ESP-r. I add PCM in active > materials. and add it in a node of a layer. Here I have three questions: > 1- For example the construction of my wall is: > 10cmBrick/5cmInsulation/5cmAir/1.2cmGypBoard. If I add PCM in the node > number 4 (middle node of Insulation) Does ESP-r insert PCM instead od the > insulation (Brick/PCM/Air/Gyp)? or divide insulation in two parts and add > PCM between two parts (Brick/2.5cmInsulation/PCM/2.5cmInsulation/Air/Gyp)? > Or if I add it in the node number 5 (the node between Insulation and air) > what will happen? And if it added PCM what is the thickness of it?? 2- > when I add PCM in one of the nodes of the construction, I don't know how > can I figure out that is it add correctly? I mean that, Should I add PCM > in one of the constructions and assign the construction to some of the > surfaces?? 3- If I want to add PCM for more than one wall how can I do > that?? I really need your answers, really. Thanks alot for your attention > and guidance.? Best Wishes, Helia -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130920/995267e6/attachment.html From A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk Wed Sep 25 16:06:53 2013 From: A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk (Arianna Sdei) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2013 15:06:53 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] temperature set point Message-ID: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C121BC3D6681@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> Dear All, I would like to use some monitored internal temperature as a temperature set point to calculate the heating load. I have daily averages for the month of January at the moment, do you know if there is a way in ESP-r to do that? I may be able to find some hourly data . Please let me know, Thank you Arianna Arianna Sdei Research Fellow IFORE (Innovation For Renewal) UNIVERSITY OF BRIGHTON Moulsecoomb, Lewes Road, Brighton, BN2 4AT direct line: 0044 (0)2036747268 mobile: 0044 (0)7981739024 ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130925/814c02cc/attachment.html From A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk Wed Sep 25 16:55:12 2013 From: A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk (Arianna Sdei) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2013 15:55:12 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: temperature set point In-Reply-To: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C121BC3D6681@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> References: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C121BC3D6681@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> Message-ID: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C121BC3D6733@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> Hi All, my previous email may not be that clear so I will try to be more specific. I would like to use a set point temperature that varies throughout the day. Can I do that in ESP-r? Please let me know, thank you, Arianna From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Arianna Sdei Sent: 25 September 2013 16:07 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] temperature set point Dear All, I would like to use some monitored internal temperature as a temperature set point to calculate the heating load. I have daily averages for the month of January at the moment, do you know if there is a way in ESP-r to do that? I may be able to find some hourly data . Please let me know, Thank you Arianna Arianna Sdei Research Fellow IFORE (Innovation For Renewal) UNIVERSITY OF BRIGHTON Moulsecoomb, Lewes Road, Brighton, BN2 4AT direct line: 0044 (0)2036747268 mobile: 0044 (0)7981739024 ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130925/16a9d1f9/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Wed Sep 25 17:46:18 2013 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2013 16:46:18 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: temperature set point timestep by timestep Message-ID: It is possible to do this. It uses a so-called temporal file which holds column temperature data (one per timestep) and this is associated with an ideal control law which then gets its setpoint from that source. The specifics needed would need more verbose than would be appropriate for an email. It should be possible to write down the specific steps needed. There might be an exemplar model that demonstrates this - I would need to check this. -Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] on behalf of Arianna Sdei [A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk] Sent: 25 September 2013 16:55 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Re: temperature set point Hi All, my previous email may not be that clear so I will try to be more specific. I would like to use a set point temperature that varies throughout the day. Can I do that in ESP-r? Please let me know, thank you, Arianna From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Arianna Sdei Sent: 25 September 2013 16:07 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] temperature set point Dear All, I would like to use some monitored internal temperature as a temperature set point to calculate the heating load. I have daily averages for the month of January at the moment, do you know if there is a way in ESP-r to do that? I may be able to find some hourly data . Please let me know, Thank you Arianna Arianna Sdei Research Fellow IFORE (Innovation For Renewal) UNIVERSITY OF BRIGHTON Moulsecoomb, Lewes Road, Brighton, BN2 4AT direct line: 0044 (0)2036747268 mobile: 0044 (0)7981739024 ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ From A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk Wed Sep 25 17:55:09 2013 From: A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk (Arianna Sdei) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2013 16:55:09 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: temperature set point timestep by timestep In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C121BC3D6791@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> HI Jon, yes please let me know if you can find the exemplar and inform me of the steps needed. The reason for doing that is to simulate an intelligent heating control system that is installed in some houses. The temperature recorded by the heating control varies throughout the day, for simplicity I can use daily averages for the month of January. So I will only have 31 temperature set points. Thank you, Arianna -----Original Message----- From: Jon Hand [mailto:jon at esru.strath.ac.uk] Sent: 25 September 2013 17:46 To: Arianna Sdei; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: RE: temperature set point timestep by timestep It is possible to do this. It uses a so-called temporal file which holds column temperature data (one per timestep) and this is associated with an ideal control law which then gets its setpoint from that source. The specifics needed would need more verbose than would be appropriate for an email. It should be possible to write down the specific steps needed. There might be an exemplar model that demonstrates this - I would need to check this. -Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] on behalf of Arianna Sdei [A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk] Sent: 25 September 2013 16:55 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Re: temperature set point Hi All, my previous email may not be that clear so I will try to be more specific. I would like to use a set point temperature that varies throughout the day. Can I do that in ESP-r? Please let me know, thank you, Arianna From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Arianna Sdei Sent: 25 September 2013 16:07 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] temperature set point Dear All, I would like to use some monitored internal temperature as a temperature set point to calculate the heating load. I have daily averages for the month of January at the moment, do you know if there is a way in ESP-r to do that? I may be able to find some hourly data . Please let me know, Thank you Arianna Arianna Sdei Research Fellow IFORE (Innovation For Renewal) UNIVERSITY OF BRIGHTON Moulsecoomb, Lewes Road, Brighton, BN2 4AT direct line: 0044 (0)2036747268 mobile: 0044 (0)7981739024 ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ From A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk Wed Sep 25 18:04:24 2013 From: A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk (Arianna Sdei) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2013 17:04:24 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: temperature set point In-Reply-To: <001201ceba0a$417f1590$c47d40b0$@dal.ca> References: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C121BC3D6681@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C121BC3D6733@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> <001201ceba0a$417f1590$c47d40b0$@dal.ca> Message-ID: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C121BC3D67AA@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> Dear Sara, thank you for that. I need to do that to simulate an intelligent heating control system. The recoded data I have got shows that the set point temperature varies throughout the day. Arianna From: Sara Nikoofard [mailto:sr880710 at dal.ca] Sent: 25 September 2013 17:14 To: Arianna Sdei; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: RE: [esp-r] Re: temperature set point Dear Arianna, In control file you can define different day types and in each day type different periods in day. This means that in theory you can have one set-point for every hour of every day. But practically you can't define 8760 control for a building. If it is important for you to keep the 24 hours profile for set-point temperature, you can divide the year to 3 or 5 seasons and for each season specify a different set point (depends on the season if cooling system needed or heating or both or neither). On the other hand you can define your set point for cooling and heating for whole year (1 day type) and 24 hours. However, I am not sure what is the benefit of having different set-point for every hour? The HVAC system always have one set point for cooling and another for heating unless they are setback control which changes for night and day as well. Hope that helps, ------------------------------------------------------------- Sara Nikoofard, PhD Mechanical Engineering Department, Room C254B Dalhousie University, Halifax, NS Phone: (902) 494-3165 email: s.nikoofard at dal.ca From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Arianna Sdei Sent: September-25-13 12:55 PM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Re: temperature set point Hi All, my previous email may not be that clear so I will try to be more specific. I would like to use a set point temperature that varies throughout the day. Can I do that in ESP-r? Please let me know, thank you, Arianna From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Arianna Sdei Sent: 25 September 2013 16:07 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] temperature set point Dear All, I would like to use some monitored internal temperature as a temperature set point to calculate the heating load. I have daily averages for the month of January at the moment, do you know if there is a way in ESP-r to do that? I may be able to find some hourly data . Please let me know, Thank you Arianna Arianna Sdei Research Fellow IFORE (Innovation For Renewal) UNIVERSITY OF BRIGHTON Moulsecoomb, Lewes Road, Brighton, BN2 4AT direct line: 0044 (0)2036747268 mobile: 0044 (0)7981739024 ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130925/68764d1d/attachment-0001.html From achim.geissler at intergga.ch Wed Sep 25 18:56:55 2013 From: achim.geissler at intergga.ch (Achim Geissler) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2013 19:56:55 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: temperature set point timestep by timestep In-Reply-To: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C121BC3D6791@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> References: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C121BC3D6791@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> Message-ID: Dear Arianna, if there is no exemplar available, I do have a model that uses tdf file data for set points in control. However, it is not a small / easy one (kind of "if all else fails"). As far as I remember, though, setting this up was (fairly) straightforward via prj. Best Achim On Sep 25, 2013, at 6:55 PM, Arianna Sdei wrote: > HI Jon, > > yes please let me know if you can find the exemplar and inform me of the steps needed. The reason for doing that is to simulate an intelligent heating control system that is installed in some houses. The temperature recorded by the heating control varies throughout the day, for simplicity I can use daily averages for the month of January. So I will only have 31 temperature set points. Thank you, > > Arianna > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jon Hand [mailto:jon at esru.strath.ac.uk] > Sent: 25 September 2013 17:46 > To: Arianna Sdei; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Subject: RE: temperature set point timestep by timestep > > > It is possible to do this. It uses a so-called temporal file which holds column temperature data (one per timestep) and this is associated with an ideal control law which then gets its setpoint from that source. The specifics needed would need more verbose than would be appropriate for an email. It should be possible to write down the specific steps needed. There might be an exemplar model that demonstrates this - I would need to check this. > > -Jon Hand > ________________________________________ > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] on behalf of Arianna Sdei [A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk] > Sent: 25 September 2013 16:55 > To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Subject: [esp-r] Re: temperature set point > > Hi All, > > my previous email may not be that clear so I will try to be more specific. I would like to use a set point temperature that varies throughout the day. Can I do that in ESP-r? Please let me know, > > thank you, > > Arianna > > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Arianna Sdei > Sent: 25 September 2013 16:07 > To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Subject: [esp-r] temperature set point > > Dear All, > > I would like to use some monitored internal temperature as a temperature set point to calculate the heating load. I have daily averages for the month of January at the moment, do you know if there is a way in ESP-r to do that? I may be able to find some hourly data . Please let me know, > > Thank you > > Arianna > > Arianna Sdei > > Research Fellow IFORE (Innovation For Renewal) > > UNIVERSITY OF BRIGHTON > > Moulsecoomb, Lewes Road, Brighton, BN2 4AT > > direct line: 0044 (0)2036747268 > > mobile: 0044 (0)7981739024 > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. > For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ > ___________________________________________________________ > > ___________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. > For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ > ___________________________________________________________ > > ___________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. > For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ > ___________________________________________________________ > > ___________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. > For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ > ___________________________________________________________ > > ___________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security > System on behalf of the University of Brighton. > For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ > ___________________________________________________________ > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > achim.geissler at intergga.ch From sr880710 at dal.ca Wed Sep 25 17:14:04 2013 From: sr880710 at dal.ca (Sara Nikoofard) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2013 13:14:04 -0300 Subject: [esp-r] Re: temperature set point In-Reply-To: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C121BC3D6733@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> References: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C121BC3D6681@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C121BC3D6733@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> Message-ID: <001201ceba0a$417f1590$c47d40b0$@dal.ca> Dear Arianna, In control file you can define different day types and in each day type different periods in day. This means that in theory you can have one set-point for every hour of every day. But practically you can't define 8760 control for a building. If it is important for you to keep the 24 hours profile for set-point temperature, you can divide the year to 3 or 5 seasons and for each season specify a different set point (depends on the season if cooling system needed or heating or both or neither). On the other hand you can define your set point for cooling and heating for whole year (1 day type) and 24 hours. However, I am not sure what is the benefit of having different set-point for every hour? The HVAC system always have one set point for cooling and another for heating unless they are setback control which changes for night and day as well. Hope that helps, ------------------------------------------------------------- Sara Nikoofard, PhD Mechanical Engineering Department, Room C254B Dalhousie University, Halifax, NS Phone: (902) 494-3165 email: s.nikoofard at dal.ca From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Arianna Sdei Sent: September-25-13 12:55 PM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Re: temperature set point Hi All, my previous email may not be that clear so I will try to be more specific. I would like to use a set point temperature that varies throughout the day. Can I do that in ESP-r? Please let me know, thank you, Arianna From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Arianna Sdei Sent: 25 September 2013 16:07 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] temperature set point Dear All, I would like to use some monitored internal temperature as a temperature set point to calculate the heating load. I have daily averages for the month of January at the moment, do you know if there is a way in ESP-r to do that? I may be able to find some hourly data . Please let me know, Thank you Arianna Arianna Sdei Research Fellow IFORE (Innovation For Renewal) UNIVERSITY OF BRIGHTON Moulsecoomb, Lewes Road, Brighton, BN2 4AT direct line: 0044 (0)2036747268 mobile: 0044 (0)7981739024 ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130925/d448425e/attachment.html From sabeeta.ghauri at strath.ac.uk Thu Sep 26 09:28:52 2013 From: sabeeta.ghauri at strath.ac.uk (Sabeeta Ghauri) Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2013 09:28:52 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] ESP-r Training sessions, October 2013 In-Reply-To: <627CE8066347D441A9BCE7C9A90B0B100267A1612DA6@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> References: <627CE8066347D441A9BCE7C9A90B0B100267A1612DA2@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk>, <627CE8066347D441A9BCE7C9A90B0B100267A1612DA5@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk>, <627CE8066347D441A9BCE7C9A90B0B100267A1612DA6@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> Message-ID: <627CE8066347D441A9BCE7C9A90B0B100267A1612DA9@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> Dear Colleagues, The ESP-r training sessions will be held on 16th - 17th October 2013 with an optional session on 18th October at the University of Strathclyde, Glasgow. ESP-r training sessions are designed to give you hands-on simulation experience as well as the underlying skills needed to translate design questions into models which deliver new information and insights. Some sessions are core topics and some are optional depending on your interests. The following topics will be covered on 16th ? 17th October the sessions. * A brief introduction to simulation and how it differs form simplified models * Introduction to the ESP-r interface, modules and layout of model folders * Browsing exemplar models and invoking simulations * Review of weather data * Construction materials and optical properties * Creation of a simple model * Occupancy and lighting patterns in rooms * Scheduled infiltration and ventilation in rooms * Setting up and running simulations, explanation of 'save levels' * Exploration of building performance * Exporting data from simulation for use with other tools * Checking models prior to simulation * Add shading obstructions to a model and calculate shading patterns * Ideal environmental controls * Fine-tune controls and test under-capacity systems * Increase model resolution and numerical resolution * Integrated Performance Views * Planning and creation of a new model * Creation and presentation of your model The following topics will be covered on 18th October sessions. * Overview of dynamic air flow assessments * Creation of a simple mass flow network * Control of flow within a mass flow network * Representing natural ventilation via a mass flow network Pre-requisites Delegates are expected to read the ESP-r Cookbook sections, view the videos (links will be provided) and install ESP-r on your computer prior to the workshop. FEE Standard: ?340.00 Additional fee for optional event: ?170.00 LOCATION Colville Building 48 North Portland Street, Glasgow G1 1XM Map link: http://www.strath.ac.uk/maps/colvillebuilding/ REGISTRATION To register visit our Online Shop. Please do not hesitate to contact me if you require any further details. Regards, Sabeeta Ghauri Energy Systems Research Unit Department of Mechanical & Aerospace Engineering University of Strathclyde 347 Cathedral St Glasgow G1 2TB phone +44(0)141 548 5765 fax +44(0)141 552 5105 email sabeeta.ghauri at strath.ac.uk The University of Strathclyde is a charitable body, registered in Scotland, with registration number SC015263 From A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk Thu Sep 26 15:27:31 2013 From: A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk (Arianna Sdei) Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2013 14:27:31 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: temperature set point timestep by timestep In-Reply-To: References: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C121BC3D6791@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> Message-ID: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C121BC3D69C1@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> HI Achim, yes can you please send me your model? Can you also please clarify the procedure you are referring to? Thank you, Arianna -----Original Message----- From: Achim Geissler [mailto:achim.geissler at intergga.ch] Sent: 25 September 2013 18:57 To: Arianna Sdei Cc: Jon Hand; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: Re: [esp-r] temperature set point timestep by timestep Dear Arianna, if there is no exemplar available, I do have a model that uses tdf file data for set points in control. However, it is not a small / easy one (kind of "if all else fails"). As far as I remember, though, setting this up was (fairly) straightforward via prj. Best Achim On Sep 25, 2013, at 6:55 PM, Arianna Sdei wrote: > HI Jon, > > yes please let me know if you can find the exemplar and inform me of > the steps needed. The reason for doing that is to simulate an > intelligent heating control system that is installed in some houses. > The temperature recorded by the heating control varies throughout the > day, for simplicity I can use daily averages for the month of January. > So I will only have 31 temperature set points. Thank you, > > Arianna > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jon Hand [mailto:jon at esru.strath.ac.uk] > Sent: 25 September 2013 17:46 > To: Arianna Sdei; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Subject: RE: temperature set point timestep by timestep > > > It is possible to do this. It uses a so-called temporal file which holds column temperature data (one per timestep) and this is associated with an ideal control law which then gets its setpoint from that source. The specifics needed would need more verbose than would be appropriate for an email. It should be possible to write down the specific steps needed. There might be an exemplar model that demonstrates this - I would need to check this. > > -Jon Hand > ________________________________________ > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk > [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] on behalf of Arianna Sdei > [A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk] > Sent: 25 September 2013 16:55 > To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Subject: [esp-r] Re: temperature set point > > Hi All, > > my previous email may not be that clear so I will try to be more > specific. I would like to use a set point temperature that varies > throughout the day. Can I do that in ESP-r? Please let me know, > > thank you, > > Arianna > > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk > [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Arianna Sdei > Sent: 25 September 2013 16:07 > To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Subject: [esp-r] temperature set point > > Dear All, > > I would like to use some monitored internal temperature as a > temperature set point to calculate the heating load. I have daily > averages for the month of January at the moment, do you know if there > is a way in ESP-r to do that? I may be able to find some hourly data . > Please let me know, > > Thank you > > Arianna > > Arianna Sdei > > Research Fellow IFORE (Innovation For Renewal) > > UNIVERSITY OF BRIGHTON > > Moulsecoomb, Lewes Road, Brighton, BN2 4AT > > direct line: 0044 (0)2036747268 > > mobile: 0044 (0)7981739024 > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. > For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ > ___________________________________________________________ > > ___________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. > For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ > ___________________________________________________________ > > ___________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. > For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ > ___________________________________________________________ > > ___________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. > For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ > ___________________________________________________________ > > ___________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on > behalf of the University of Brighton. > For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ > ___________________________________________________________ > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > achim.geissler at intergga.ch ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ From m.archontiki at student.tue.nl Thu Sep 26 16:33:40 2013 From: m.archontiki at student.tue.nl (Archontiki, M.) Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2013 15:33:40 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] EPW climate file Message-ID: Hello, I am trying to import an EPW climate file to an existing model. What i did was to modify it according to the instructions at the climate README sections and then execute the epw2bin as described in Cookbook. The conversion seems succesful since I can review the file through clm module. Afterwards I changed the cfg path to point the converted file but it not work when i proceed to simulation. I also tried the import epw option but i am afraid i did it the wrong way (i imput the path but it dioes not find the file)! Any help please? Thanks in advance! Best Regards Maria Archontiki From paul at esru.strath.ac.uk Fri Sep 27 09:24:31 2013 From: paul at esru.strath.ac.uk (Paul Strachan) Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2013 09:24:31 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: temperature set point In-Reply-To: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C121BC3D6733@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> References: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C121BC3D6681@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C121BC3D6733@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> Message-ID: <524540BF.2030809@esru.strath.ac.uk> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130927/b1ad0f0b/attachment.html From olivier.bounhoure at gmail.com Fri Sep 27 11:08:23 2013 From: olivier.bounhoure at gmail.com (olivier bounhoure) Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2013 12:08:23 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Fwd: EPW climate file In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear Maria, You probably need to update the "climatelist" file too. There is a menu available from the clm module that help you to manage this file but yout can also edit it directly following the template of the other climate files. Sincerely, Olivier 2013/9/26 Archontiki, M. > Hello, > > > > I am trying to import an EPW climate file to an existing model. What i did > was to modify it according to the instructions at the climate README > sections and then execute the epw2bin as described in Cookbook. The > conversion seems succesful since I can review the file through clm module. > Afterwards I changed the cfg path to point the converted file but it not > work when i proceed to simulation. I also tried the import epw option but i > am afraid i did it the wrong way (i imput the path but it dioes not find > the file)! Any help please? Thanks in advance! > > > > Best Regards > > Maria Archontiki > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130927/3de9cf85/attachment.html From aizaz.a.samuel at strath.ac.uk Fri Sep 27 12:09:14 2013 From: aizaz.a.samuel at strath.ac.uk (Aizaz Samuel) Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2013 12:09:14 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: temperature set point In-Reply-To: <524540BF.2030809@esru.strath.ac.uk> References: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C121BC3D6681@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C121BC3D6733@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> <524540BF.2030809@esru.strath.ac.uk> Message-ID: <5245675A.2090505@strath.ac.uk> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130927/b5015a54/attachment.html From A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk Fri Sep 27 19:13:19 2013 From: A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk (Arianna Sdei) Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2013 18:13:19 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: temperature set point In-Reply-To: <524540BF.2030809@esru.strath.ac.uk> References: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C121BC3D6681@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C121BC3D6733@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> <524540BF.2030809@esru.strath.ac.uk> Message-ID: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C121BC3D6BBC@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> Hi Paul, thank you very much, I look forward to it. Regards, Arianna From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Paul Strachan Sent: 27 September 2013 09:25 To: 'esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk' Subject: [esp-r] Re: temperature set point Hi Arianna, I have done this many times in validation experiments where we impose the measured zone temperature (e.g. at 10 minute intervals) and compare predicted and measured heating/cooling inputs. You will need to use the temporal database to hold the setpoint data and set a control to use this. I will see if I can find a simple example and send to you next week. Regards Paul Hi All, my previous email may not be that clear so I will try to be more specific. I would like to use a set point temperature that varies throughout the day. Can I do that in ESP-r? Please let me know, thank you, Arianna From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Arianna Sdei Sent: 25 September 2013 16:07 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] temperature set point Dear All, I would like to use some monitored internal temperature as a temperature set point to calculate the heating load. I have daily averages for the month of January at the moment, do you know if there is a way in ESP-r to do that? I may be able to find some hourly data . Please let me know, Thank you Arianna Arianna Sdei Research Fellow IFORE (Innovation For Renewal) UNIVERSITY OF BRIGHTON Moulsecoomb, Lewes Road, Brighton, BN2 4AT direct line: 0044 (0)2036747268 mobile: 0044 (0)7981739024 ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ ________________________________ _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130927/0204b951/attachment.html From Liam.OBrien at carleton.ca Mon Sep 30 15:43:06 2013 From: Liam.OBrien at carleton.ca (Liam O'Brien) Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2013 10:43:06 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Canada's building performance simulation conference - eSim 2014, Ottawa, Canada - Call for Abstracts In-Reply-To: <5220F107.7080602@cunet.carleton.ca> References: <5220E99D.7050609@cunet.carleton.ca> <5220F107.7080602@cunet.carleton.ca> Message-ID: <52498DFA.4030503@cunet.carleton.ca> Due to popular request, there is a brief extension for abstracts until*Oct. 4 at midnight.* On 8/30/2013 3:22 PM, Liam O'Brien wrote: > Dear Colleagues, > > It's my pleasure to continue the legacy of Canada's building > performance simulation conference, /eSim/. Historically, eSim has > hosted hundreds of building simulation experts from Canada and around > the world. > > eSim 2014 will occur at Carleton University in Ottawa on May 8 and 9, > 2014 with workshops on the day before and after. The online submission > system is now live (esim.ca) and *250 word abstracts are due by Sept. > 27, 2013*. > > I look forward to your submissions and welcome you in advance to > Ottawa at eSim 2014. > > Liam O'Brien, > Chair, /eSim 2014/, Ottawa, Canada > -- > William (Liam) O'Brien, PhD > Assistant Professor, Architectural Conservation and Sustainability Engineering > Carleton University > Canal Building, 5208 > (613) 520-2600 ext. 8037 > http://humanbuildinginteractionlab.wordpress.com/ > > -- William (Liam) O'Brien, PhD Assistant Professor, Architectural Conservation and Sustainability Engineering Carleton University Canal Building, 5208 (613) 520-2600 ext. 8037 http://humanbuildinginteractionlab.wordpress.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20130930/d3e9c2aa/attachment.html From eq08070 at fe.up.pt Mon Sep 30 15:56:22 2013 From: eq08070 at fe.up.pt (=?UTF-8?Q?Pedro_Filipe_M=2E_Carrapi=C3=A7o?=) Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2013 15:56:22 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Instalation problem Message-ID: <39b8d6b6176479cd6cac1226684b717e@fe.up.pt> Hi I'm trying install Esp-r in Windows 7, but when i put the command " ./Install -d C:/Esru --gcc4 --reuse_ish_calcs" it says the install command is not found. I'm using as guide the "Notes on compiling ESP-r for Windows, 27 April 2012". How can i fix this problem or there is another way to install esp-r in Windows? i already tried work in Cygwig but isn't a very good option for me.. Best Regards, Pedro Carrapi?o From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Tue Oct 1 10:30:50 2013 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2013 09:30:50 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Instalation problem and a suggesstion Message-ID: The instructions for the W7 build-from-scratch have worked on a number of computers. If 'Install' was not found it might be something as simple as not being in the correct folder when issuing the command. You need to be in the same folder as the Install script when issuing the command. If you want a short-cut to getting ESP-r on your computer you could use the W7 installer application in the link below. This was built from a recent develoment_branch version and should work on most W7 computers. Remember that development and use of ESP-r should be done on computers with a localle of USA or UK (real numbers need to have a dot for the decimal place rather than a comma). Regards, Jon Hand https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/17785121/ESPr_Installers/ESP-r_setup_native_windows_w7_v12_0_9411.exe ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] on behalf of Pedro Filipe M. Carrapi?o [eq08070 at fe.up.pt] Sent: 30 September 2013 15:56 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Instalation problem Hi I'm trying install Esp-r in Windows 7, but when i put the command " ./Install -d C:/Esru --gcc4 --reuse_ish_calcs" it says the install command is not found. I'm using as guide the "Notes on compiling ESP-r for Windows, 27 April 2012". How can i fix this problem or there is another way to install esp-r in Windows? i already tried work in Cygwig but isn't a very good option for me.. Best Regards, Pedro Carrapi?o _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Wed Oct 2 09:48:38 2013 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2013 08:48:38 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] reminder about setting computer localle to force decimal place to be a dot rather than a comma Message-ID: A reminder for ESP-r uses working in regions which use a comma as a decimal place.... Remember to reset your computer location to one that uses a dot for a decimal place in real numbers - like the UK or USA. You can very quickly TRASH models and databases because ESP-r considers a comma as a separator between data values. Regards, Jon Hand From asaee at dal.ca Wed Oct 2 18:57:56 2013 From: asaee at dal.ca (Rasoul Asaee) Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2013 17:57:56 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] "Fortran run time error" and "Floating point exception" Message-ID: Hi, I used to work with an old version of ESP-r (r8348) on Xubuntu 11.10. Recently, I updated esp-r to revision 9398 and when I run a case with active plant following error is generated. However, the same version works on another system. -------------------------------------------------------- At line 114 of file window_control.F Fortran runtime error: Array reference out of bounds for array 'bmiscd', lower bound of dimension 2 exceeded (0 < 1) -------------------------------------------------------- I checked the trac and find out that Window_control.F is changed with commit 9137. To make sure about the reason of this error I recompiled the old version of ESP-r that used to work on my system. At this time it was not working and produced following error. ------------------------------------------------------- Floating point exception ------------------------------------------------------- I removed the Xubuntu 11.10 and installed the Ubuntu 10.04 LTS. But, both problems remain in this version of Ubuntu as well. As mentioned in " Installing Ubuntu 10.04 & 11.04 for esp-r" document, If fonts are missing ESP-r modules tend to crash with a floating point exception. So, I followed the instruction to solve this problem, but, problem is not solved. Any ideas? Thank you very much and best regards, Rasoul -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20131002/8b53149d/attachment.html From romana.antczak at pg.gda.pl Wed Oct 2 10:20:06 2013 From: romana.antczak at pg.gda.pl (Romana Antczak) Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2013 11:20:06 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] zonal model - question Message-ID: Dear ESP-r users, I have a question, is it possible in ESP-r to model a single room with SEVERAL control volumes (thermal zones) connected with each other by an airflow network in order to create a zonal model? Zonal models are often referred in literature as an intermediate approach between lumped models and CFD models. Is it possible to create such model in ESP-r by default (without additional code contribution)? Kind regards, Romana Antczak From monika.hall at fhnw.ch Thu Oct 3 09:31:28 2013 From: monika.hall at fhnw.ch (Hall Monika) Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2013 08:31:28 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: zonal model - question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear Romana, yes, this is possible. You can compose your single room with several (thermal, control) zones and connect them by an air flow network. For the connecting construction of the "air-walls" you need to define a "fictitious" construction. Best regards Monika ------------------------------------------------------------ Fachhochschule Nordwestschweiz Hochschule f?r Architektur, Bau und Geomatik Institut Energie am Bau Dr. Monika Hall Wissenschaftliche Mitarbeiterin St. Jakobs-Strasse 84 4132 Muttenz ------------------------------------------------------------ T +41 61 467 45 61 F +41 61 467 45 43 monika.hall at fhnw.ch www.fhnw.ch ------------------------------------------------------------ -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] Im Auftrag von Romana Antczak Gesendet: Mittwoch, 2. Oktober 2013 11:20 An: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Betreff: [esp-r] zonal model - question Dear ESP-r users, I have a question, is it possible in ESP-r to model a single room with SEVERAL control volumes (thermal zones) connected with each other by an airflow network in order to create a zonal model? Zonal models are often referred in literature as an intermediate approach between lumped models and CFD models. Is it possible to create such model in ESP-r by default (without additional code contribution)? Kind regards, Romana Antczak _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Thu Oct 3 09:35:17 2013 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2013 08:35:17 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: zonal model - question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Using the existing 'building blocks' of ESP-r it has been possible to represent a single physical space as several thermal zones and use a mass flow network to allow air to move between the zones based on pressure and buoyancy. The issue is that higher resolution in air flow reduces the resolution of radiant transfer as solar raditaion passes between the thermal zones and, for example, the left wall of the room does not directly see the right wall of the room for radiant transfer because there are intermediate surfaces/zones between them. Typically this has been done for atria which might be separated into 3-4 vertical zones and a left and right half. It would be really good to gain confidence in such a model via a parallel CFD assessment. ESP-r supports 3D transient CFD with evolving boundary conditions so you would not necessarily need to use another tool for comparison. -Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] on behalf of Romana Antczak [romana.antczak at pg.gda.pl] Sent: 02 October 2013 10:20 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] zonal model - question Dear ESP-r users, I have a question, is it possible in ESP-r to model a single room with SEVERAL control volumes (thermal zones) connected with each other by an airflow network in order to create a zonal model? Zonal models are often referred in literature as an intermediate approach between lumped models and CFD models. Is it possible to create such model in ESP-r by default (without additional code contribution)? Kind regards, Romana Antczak _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Fri Oct 4 15:53:20 2013 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2013 14:53:20 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: "Fortran run time error" and "Floating point exception" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Looking in the code of window_control.F the line is: ELSEIF ( BMISCD(1,IDTYP,IPER,4) .ge. 1 .and. !Check cooling capacity is greater than 1 W & TFA(iCoolingControlZone) .ge. BMISCD(1,IDTYP,IPER,7)) THEN bWindowsAreOpen(iComp) = .false. So the 2nd array of bmiscd is is the day type which is zero. This suggests that the definition of the control and/or the periods is confused. There should not be a day type index of zero. Suggest that you create a model QA report and carefully look at the reporting section for controls. And this window_control.F is not typically a user issue because it is implementing some special control actions for a research group in Canada. Getting fonts on Linux typically is resolved by following the apt-get install options for fonts as noted in the src/manual/OS/Linux/Ubuntu_for_esp-r.rtf file: gsfonts-x11 xfonts-mplus xfonts-terminus xfonts-terminus-dos xfonts-100dpi Regards, Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] on behalf of Rasoul Asaee [asaee at dal.ca] Sent: 02 October 2013 18:57 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] "Fortran run time error" and "Floating point exception" Hi, I used to work with an old version of ESP-r (r8348) on Xubuntu 11.10. Recently, I updated esp-r to revision 9398 and when I run a case with active plant following error is generated. However, the same version works on another system. -------------------------------------------------------- At line 114 of file window_control.F Fortran runtime error: Array reference out of bounds for array 'bmiscd', lower bound of dimension 2 exceeded (0 < 1) -------------------------------------------------------- I checked the trac and find out that Window_control.F is changed with commit 9137. To make sure about the reason of this error I recompiled the old version of ESP-r that used to work on my system. At this time it was not working and produced following error. ------------------------------------------------------- Floating point exception ------------------------------------------------------- I removed the Xubuntu 11.10 and installed the Ubuntu 10.04 LTS. But, both problems remain in this version of Ubuntu as well. As mentioned in " Installing Ubuntu 10.04 & 11.04 for esp-r" document, If fonts are missing ESP-r modules tend to crash with a floating point exception. So, I followed the instruction to solve this problem, but, problem is not solved. Any ideas? Thank you very much and best regards, Rasoul From nico_espinosa19 at hotmail.com Sun Oct 6 21:07:53 2013 From: nico_espinosa19 at hotmail.com (Nicolas Espinosa) Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2013 22:07:53 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Heating energy balance breakdown Message-ID: Hello all, I am trying to compare PHPP results and ESP-R results to continue with a dynamic and more accurate study with ESP-R. I am a newbye in ESP-R but I have read lots of reports and the cookbook and successfully run a simulation of the dwelling. I would like to find a way to have heating dwelling annual (and montly) energy balance : Internal Casual gains + solar gain through window + plant heating - heat losses through walls and ground = 0 Also within heat losses to wall be able to distinct between : wall , ground, window and roof heat surface losses for further analyses. The idea would be to make that kind of graph : http://passipedia.passiv.de/passipedia_en/_media/picopen/phpp_balance_passive_house_kranichstein_k.png?w=400 and also this graph : http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_tZsHf_zYxxE/R4sNfrRnt9I/AAAAAAAAAGI/vjSuwkeDPSU/s1600/chart.JPG The issue is that I can not find in res all informations in particular despite the level 4 was selected in simulation: - solar gain through windows. - distinct between wall losses, ground losses and roof. I think the surface balance is not sufficient as we do not really how the heat flux is coming or leaving the walls depending on days and period of the year... I am a bit lost.. Could you help me ? what do I need to look at in res and export ? Thanks for your reply Regards, Nikito -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20131006/e70bcdf4/attachment.html From achim.geissler at intergga.ch Mon Oct 7 18:46:05 2013 From: achim.geissler at intergga.ch (Achim.geissler) Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2013 19:46:05 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Heating energy balance breakdown Message-ID: Dear Nicolas, some comments inline, below. Best Achim --------- Original-Nachricht -------- Von: Nicolas Espinosa An: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Betreff: [esp-r] Heating energy balance breakdown Datum: 06/10/13 23:41 > > I am trying to compare PHPP results and ESP-R > results to continue with a dynamic and more accurate study with > ESP-R. I expect you are aware that comparing results between two probably wildly different calculation tools is difficult, in general. > I am a newbye in ESP-R but I have read lots of > reports and the cookbook and successfully run a simulation of the > dwelling. Welcome! And good start. > > Also within heat losses to wall be able to distinct > between : wall , ground, window and roof heat surface losses  > for further analyses.  Basically, you can extract a lot of data for every individual surface. Depending on the platform you are using, I would suggest using bash scripts to drive res for extracting the results. > > The issue is that I can not find in res all > informations in particular despite the level 4 was selected in > simulation: > - solar gain through windows.  There are two variables available, "solar entering zone" and "solar absorbed". The first includes fraction reflected outside. The second is likely what you are looking for. > - distinct between wall losses, ground losses and > roof. > I think the surface balance is not sufficient as we > do not really how the heat flux is coming or leaving the walls > depending on days and period of the year...  I do not quite understand what you mean here. You may want to slightly elaborate. > I am a bit lost.. > > Could you help me ? what do I need to look at in res > and export ? > > Thanks for your reply > > Regards, > Nikito > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From adamwills at cmail.carleton.ca Tue Oct 8 02:58:02 2013 From: adamwills at cmail.carleton.ca (Adam Wills) Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2013 21:58:02 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] Parent and Child surfaces Message-ID: Hello, Are the established Parent/child relationships used in bps.exe? Or any of the other modules? Or is it simply for user feedback? Also, is it generally just bad practice to populate a parent surface with so many children? I received an ESP-r model from a colleague of mine a few weeks back. It contained a wall with 4 child surfaces (representing studs, glazing, glazing frame, etc.). When I tried to view the zone containing the parent wall in prj.exe, I received a Fortran runtime error. I traced the error back to the subroutine SURREL in egeometry.F, which deals with determining parent/child relationships with surfaces. It doesn't seem to enjoy a surface with many children. Cheers, Adam Wills -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20131007/ddd7a2ac/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Tue Oct 8 08:30:51 2013 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2013 07:30:51 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Parent and Child surfaces In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Parent child relationships are used in limited ways - it allows the software to initially assign the same boundary condition to the child. It is used when scanning for possible (linear) thermal bridge types and also to help clean up unused vertices when deleting children. The arrays in SURREL were sized to cope with the variety of models that I had access to. Clearly none of them had that many children. As far as I know bps does not use any of the child parent data structures. The other place where it could fall apart is that the number of edges in the parent surface gets un-managable or exceeds the polygon array limits. Most people cannot reliably work with such complexity and that is the real limit. I would say that it would be better in the planning stage to recognize the likely complexity and have more surfaces. It would probably not be difficult to increase the array size in surrel. And if the glazing was a child of the frame then it would not have tripped the logic. Perhaps some logic could be added to detect and disallow really complex situations. -Jon ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] on behalf of Adam Wills [adamwills at cmail.carleton.ca] Sent: 08 October 2013 02:58 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Parent and Child surfaces Hello, Are the established Parent/child relationships used in bps.exe? Or any of the other modules? Or is it simply for user feedback? Also, is it generally just bad practice to populate a parent surface with so many children? I received an ESP-r model from a colleague of mine a few weeks back. It contained a wall with 4 child surfaces (representing studs, glazing, glazing frame, etc.). When I tried to view the zone containing the parent wall in prj.exe, I received a Fortran runtime error. I traced the error back to the subroutine SURREL in egeometry.F, which deals with determining parent/child relationships with surfaces. It doesn't seem to enjoy a surface with many children. Cheers, Adam Wills From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Tue Oct 8 14:26:04 2013 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2013 13:26:04 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Announcement of a new translation of the ESp-r Cookbook. Message-ID: I was notified by Gian Luca Brunetti that there is a new Italian translation of the ESP-r Cookbook. It will be uploaded to the ESRU site soon, and until it is anyone who would like a PDF can get in touch with me and I will forward you a copy. Thanks a lot to Gian for this contribution to the ESP-r community! Regards, Jon Hand From gianluca.brunetti at polimi.it Tue Oct 8 15:35:15 2013 From: gianluca.brunetti at polimi.it (Gian Luca Brunetti) Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2013 14:35:15 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Announcement of a new translation of the ESp-r Cookbook. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6ce74125c6724ab9a7a21f6376d8be96@AMSPR06MB200.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com> Thank you Jon. I think the Cookbook is a great resource. Regards Gian Luca Brunetti ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk on behalf of Jon Hand Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2013 3:26 PM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Announcement of a new translation of the ESp-r Cookbook. I was notified by Gian Luca Brunetti that there is a new Italian translation of the ESP-r Cookbook. It will be uploaded to the ESRU site soon, and until it is anyone who would like a PDF can get in touch with me and I will forward you a copy. Thanks a lot to Gian for this contribution to the ESP-r community! Regards, Jon Hand _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Tue Oct 8 15:41:13 2013 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2013 14:41:13 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Heating energy balance breakdown In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: ESP-r results analysis application includes a table called 'monthly gains and losses'. This is a sub-set of a zone energy balance expressed as monthly values for each of the zones in the model. The attached image shows the kinds of information included. This one used the to-the-nearest kWhr option. Not shown is the monthly summary. Regards, Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] on behalf of Nicolas Espinosa [nico_espinosa19 at hotmail.com] Sent: 06 October 2013 21:07 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Heating energy balance breakdown Hello all, I am trying to compare PHPP results and ESP-R results to continue with a dynamic and more accurate study with ESP-R. I am a newbye in ESP-R but I have read lots of reports and the cookbook and successfully run a simulation of the dwelling. I would like to find a way to have heating dwelling annual (and montly) energy balance : Internal Casual gains + solar gain through window + plant heating - heat losses through walls and ground = 0 Also within heat losses to wall be able to distinct between : wall , ground, window and roof heat surface losses for further analyses. The idea would be to make that kind of graph : http://passipedia.passiv.de/passipedia_en/_media/picopen/phpp_balance_passive_house_kranichstein_k.png?w=400 and also this graph : http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_tZsHf_zYxxE/R4sNfrRnt9I/AAAAAAAAAGI/vjSuwkeDPSU/s1600/chart.JPG The issue is that I can not find in res all informations in particular despite the level 4 was selected in simulation: - solar gain through windows. - distinct between wall losses, ground losses and roof. I think the surface balance is not sufficient as we do not really how the heat flux is coming or leaving the walls depending on days and period of the year... I am a bit lost.. Could you help me ? what do I need to look at in res and export ? Thanks for your reply Regards, Nikito -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: monthly_gains_losses.gif Type: image/gif Size: 13929 bytes Desc: monthly_gains_losses.gif Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20131008/63c4ce65/attachment-0001.gif From helia.taheri at ut.ac.ir Mon Oct 14 15:49:23 2013 From: helia.taheri at ut.ac.ir (helia.taheri at ut.ac.ir) Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2013 18:19:23 +0330 (IRST) Subject: [esp-r] Results with and without PCM Message-ID: <15289.5.34.212.150.1381762163.squirrel@utservm.ut.ac.ir> Hi, I am simulating a model with PCM. I make a model and then I want to simulate it and get some results from it. At firs I run it with PCM and look at the graph. then I run a rare model (without PCM) and look at the graph. I don't see any change in the graphs!!! I don't know what is wrong with the model. Another work that I did in this simulation, I created in a model two zones, that are similar to each other in all the aspects, except one of them has PCM. I wanted to simulate this model and compare the results in one model. Again I couldn't select the zone that I want to simulate (in the simulation and results menu). I don't know what is wrong with my model. Thanks alot for your attention. Best, Helia Taheri From ragnhild.hl at gmail.com Mon Oct 14 16:10:39 2013 From: ragnhild.hl at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ragnhild_Haukland_L=F8ge?=) Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2013 17:10:39 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Problems with plants and system Message-ID: Hello, I am trying to model a solar collector model in ESP-r, but i am getting an error message when i try to add components. Under 'plants and systems' -> 'explicit' -> 'components' -> 'add' -> 'solar and others', the list of possible choices does not appear but an error message: "Number of menu items too small". Does anyone know what this means or how to fix it? Kind regards, Ragnhild L?ge -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20131014/4e9d40b0/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Tue Oct 15 07:32:19 2013 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2013 06:32:19 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Problems with plants and system In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: In order to provide better help could you specify what version of ESP-r you are using (the revision mentioned in the text feedback window when prj starts up and the operating system you are running. -Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] on behalf of Ragnhild Haukland L?ge [ragnhild.hl at gmail.com] Sent: 14 October 2013 16:10 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Problems with plants and system Hello, I am trying to model a solar collector model in ESP-r, but i am getting an error message when i try to add components. Under 'plants and systems' -> 'explicit' -> 'components' -> 'add' -> 'solar and others', the list of possible choices does not appear but an error message: "Number of menu items too small". Does anyone know what this means or how to fix it? Kind regards, Ragnhild L?ge From Xiao.Liu at nottingham.edu.cn Thu Oct 17 06:21:21 2013 From: Xiao.Liu at nottingham.edu.cn (Xiao LIU (6514827)) Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 13:21:21 +0800 Subject: [esp-r] Error of Installing ESP-r on Mac OS X 10.8.5 Message-ID: Subject: Error of Installing ESP-r on Mac OS X 10.8.5 Hi, I am trying to install ESP-r in my computer with the latest system of Mac OS X 10.8.5. Following with the instruction from the website and after resolving several dependencies with other software I still get an error. I am copying the relevant text from the error below (verbose text): - building libX11... Done. - building aco... ERROR: could not build executable aco! ERROR: result /Users/mac/Src/development_branch/src/esruaco/aco! Compilation messages follow: ----------------------------------------- Compilation of aco on Mon Oct 14 11:21:58 CST Make command: ------------- make MCTYPE=osx MCC=gcc MCPL=g++ MFC=gfortran DESTdir=/Users/mac/cset ESPdir=/Users/mac/cset/esp-r WWLINK=unshared EXE= XINSTALLDIR=/usr/X11R6 CFLAGS=-I../include -I../shocc -I/usr/local/include -I../cetc/h3kreports -I/usr/X11R6/include -DOSX -DLIN -m64 -DX11 FFLAGS=-I../include -I../shocc -I/usr/local/include -I../cetc/h3kreports -DOSX -DLIN -m64 -DX11 -fno-automatic -DGCC4 LD_FLAGS= ULIBS=-L/Users/mac/Src/development_branch/src/lib -lversion -lxesru -L/usr/X11R6/lib -lX11 -lXML -lSQLite xml_status= SQLite_status= -f Makefile aco >>.make_msg 2>&1 Make output: ------------ cd `pwd`/esruaco; make gcc -I../include -I../shocc -I/usr/local/include -I../cetc/h3kreports -DOSX -DLIN -m64 -DX11 -fno-automatic -DGCC4 -c h3kmodule.f90 clang: warning: argument unused during compilation: '-I ../include' clang: warning: argument unused during compilation: '-I ../shocc' clang: warning: argument unused during compilation: '-I /usr/local/include' clang: warning: argument unused during compilation: '-I ../cetc/h3kreports' clang: warning: argument unused during compilation: '-fno-automatic' error: invalid value 'f95' in '-x f95' make[1]: *** [h3kmodule.o] Error 1 make: *** [aco] Error 2 ----------------------------------------- Install: Fatal error. Executable aco could not be built! Installation aborted. Could you give me some ideas of how to resolve this? Great appreciation for your help and kindness. I am installing revision r9 9495 of the development branch. Xiao LIU PhD Candidate Centre for Sustainable Energy Technologies (CSET) The University of Nottingham, Ningbo, China (UNNC) Mobile: (+86)150 6746 9263 E-mail: Xiao.Liu at nottingham.edu.cn Address: 199 Taikang East Road, University Park, Ningbo, China Post code: 315100 This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it. Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment. Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of The University of Nottingham Ningbo China. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with The University of Nottingham Ningbo China may be monitored as permitted by UK and Chinese legislation. From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Thu Oct 17 09:22:49 2013 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 08:22:49 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Error of Installing ESP-r on Mac OS X 10.8.5 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >From the message it would appear that you are attempting to install ESP-r on an OSX computer. My guess is that you have not installed the full development environment needed to build ESP-r. Have you done a build on this compueter before? Have you installed the GNU gcc g++ and gfortran compilers as listed in the osx setup instructions e.g. if you give the commands which gcc which g++ which gfortran in a terminal do you get a response? What version of OSX are you running? Regards, Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] on behalf of Xiao LIU (6514827) [Xiao.Liu at nottingham.edu.cn] Sent: 17 October 2013 06:21 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Error of Installing ESP-r on Mac OS X 10.8.5 Subject: Error of Installing ESP-r on Mac OS X 10.8.5 Hi, I am trying to install ESP-r in my computer with the latest system of Mac OS X 10.8.5. Following with the instruction from the website and after resolving several dependencies with other software I still get an error. I am copying the relevant text from the error below (verbose text): - building libX11... Done. - building aco... ERROR: could not build executable aco! ERROR: result /Users/mac/Src/development_branch/src/esruaco/aco! Compilation messages follow: ----------------------------------------- Compilation of aco on Mon Oct 14 11:21:58 CST Make command: ------------- make MCTYPE=osx MCC=gcc MCPL=g++ MFC=gfortran DESTdir=/Users/mac/cset ESPdir=/Users/mac/cset/esp-r WWLINK=unshared EXE= XINSTALLDIR=/usr/X11R6 CFLAGS=-I../include -I../shocc -I/usr/local/include -I../cetc/h3kreports -I/usr/X11R6/include -DOSX -DLIN -m64 -DX11 FFLAGS=-I../include -I../shocc -I/usr/local/include -I../cetc/h3kreports -DOSX -DLIN -m64 -DX11 -fno-automatic -DGCC4 LD_FLAGS= ULIBS=-L/Users/mac/Src/development_branch/src/lib -lversion -lxesru -L/usr/X11R6/lib -lX11 -lXML -lSQLite xml_status= SQLite_status= -f Makefile aco >>.make_msg 2>&1 Make output: ------------ cd `pwd`/esruaco; make gcc -I../include -I../shocc -I/usr/local/include -I../cetc/h3kreports -DOSX -DLIN -m64 -DX11 -fno-automatic -DGCC4 -c h3kmodule.f90 clang: warning: argument unused during compilation: '-I ../include' clang: warning: argument unused during compilation: '-I ../shocc' clang: warning: argument unused during compilation: '-I /usr/local/include' clang: warning: argument unused during compilation: '-I ../cetc/h3kreports' clang: warning: argument unused during compilation: '-fno-automatic' error: invalid value 'f95' in '-x f95' make[1]: *** [h3kmodule.o] Error 1 make: *** [aco] Error 2 ----------------------------------------- Install: Fatal error. Executable aco could not be built! Installation aborted. Could you give me some ideas of how to resolve this? Great appreciation for your help and kindness. I am installing revision r9 9495 of the development branch. Xiao LIU PhD Candidate Centre for Sustainable Energy Technologies (CSET) The University of Nottingham, Ningbo, China (UNNC) Mobile: (+86)150 6746 9263 E-mail: Xiao.Liu at nottingham.edu.cn Address: 199 Taikang East Road, University Park, Ningbo, China Post code: 315100 This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it. Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment. Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of The University of Nottingham Ningbo China. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with The University of Nottingham Ningbo China may be monitored as permitted by UK and Chinese legislation. _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From Xiao.Liu at nottingham.edu.cn Fri Oct 18 06:51:14 2013 From: Xiao.Liu at nottingham.edu.cn (Xiao LIU (6514827)) Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2013 13:51:14 +0800 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Error of Installing ESP-r on Mac OS X 10.8.5 In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: Hi, Jon, I have not done a build on this computer before. In the terminal, I got the response as following when I typed the commands Shawn-Liu:~ mac$ which g++ /usr/bin/g++ Shawn-Liu:~ mac$ which gfortran /sw/bin/gfortran Shawn-Liu:~ mac$ which gcc /usr/bin/gcc The version of OSX is 10.8.5 and it is 64 bit Any ideas? Xiao LIU PhD Candidate Centre for Sustainable Energy Technologies (CSET) The University of Nottingham, Ningbo, China (UNNC) Mobile: (+86)150 6746 9263 E-mail: Xiao.Liu at nottingham.edu.cn Address: 199 Taikang East Road, University Park, Ningbo, China Post code: 315100 ________________________________________ From: Jon Hand [jon at esru.strath.ac.uk] Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 4:22 PM To: Xiao LIU (6514827); esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: RE: Error of Installing ESP-r on Mac OS X 10.8.5 >From the message it would appear that you are attempting to install ESP-r on an OSX computer. My guess is that you have not installed the full development environment needed to build ESP-r. Have you done a build on this compueter before? Have you installed the GNU gcc g++ and gfortran compilers as listed in the osx setup instructions e.g. if you give the commands which gcc which g++ which gfortran in a terminal do you get a response? What version of OSX are you running? Regards, Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] on behalf of Xiao LIU (6514827) [Xiao.Liu at nottingham.edu.cn] Sent: 17 October 2013 06:21 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Error of Installing ESP-r on Mac OS X 10.8.5 Subject: Error of Installing ESP-r on Mac OS X 10.8.5 Hi, I am trying to install ESP-r in my computer with the latest system of Mac OS X 10.8.5. Following with the instruction from the website and after resolving several dependencies with other software I still get an error. I am copying the relevant text from the error below (verbose text): - building libX11... Done. - building aco... ERROR: could not build executable aco! ERROR: result /Users/mac/Src/development_branch/src/esruaco/aco! Compilation messages follow: ----------------------------------------- Compilation of aco on Mon Oct 14 11:21:58 CST Make command: ------------- make MCTYPE=osx MCC=gcc MCPL=g++ MFC=gfortran DESTdir=/Users/mac/cset ESPdir=/Users/mac/cset/esp-r WWLINK=unshared EXE= XINSTALLDIR=/usr/X11R6 CFLAGS=-I../include -I../shocc -I/usr/local/include -I../cetc/h3kreports -I/usr/X11R6/include -DOSX -DLIN -m64 -DX11 FFLAGS=-I../include -I../shocc -I/usr/local/include -I../cetc/h3kreports -DOSX -DLIN -m64 -DX11 -fno-automatic -DGCC4 LD_FLAGS= ULIBS=-L/Users/mac/Src/development_branch/src/lib -lversion -lxesru -L/usr/X11R6/lib -lX11 -lXML -lSQLite xml_status= SQLite_status= -f Makefile aco >>.make_msg 2>&1 Make output: ------------ cd `pwd`/esruaco; make gcc -I../include -I../shocc -I/usr/local/include -I../cetc/h3kreports -DOSX -DLIN -m64 -DX11 -fno-automatic -DGCC4 -c h3kmodule.f90 clang: warning: argument unused during compilation: '-I ../include' clang: warning: argument unused during compilation: '-I ../shocc' clang: warning: argument unused during compilation: '-I /usr/local/include' clang: warning: argument unused during compilation: '-I ../cetc/h3kreports' clang: warning: argument unused during compilation: '-fno-automatic' error: invalid value 'f95' in '-x f95' make[1]: *** [h3kmodule.o] Error 1 make: *** [aco] Error 2 ----------------------------------------- Install: Fatal error. Executable aco could not be built! Installation aborted. Could you give me some ideas of how to resolve this? Great appreciation for your help and kindness. I am installing revision r9 9495 of the development branch. Xiao LIU PhD Candidate Centre for Sustainable Energy Technologies (CSET) The University of Nottingham, Ningbo, China (UNNC) Mobile: (+86)150 6746 9263 E-mail: Xiao.Liu at nottingham.edu.cn Address: 199 Taikang East Road, University Park, Ningbo, China Post code: 315100 This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it. Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment. Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of The University of Nottingham Ningbo China. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with The University of Nottingham Ningbo China may be monitored as permitted by UK and Chinese legislation. _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it. Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment. Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of The University of Nottingham Ningbo China. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with The University of Nottingham Ningbo China may be monitored as permitted by UK and Chinese legislation. From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Fri Oct 18 09:20:12 2013 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2013 08:20:12 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Error of Installing ESP-r on Mac OS X 10.8.5 In-Reply-To: References: , , Message-ID: This is useful information. One issue might be that the gfortran is found in /sw/bin/gfortran and g++ and gcc are in /usr/bin. They might be sufficiently different in their versions to be a problem. What command did you use with the Install script? It should be similar to: ./Install -d /Users/mac/cset/esp-r --gcc4 --debug --reuse_ish_calcs I do not have access to an OSX 10.8.5 computer (mine are 10.7.5) so I cannot replicate this. One more thing - on your computer are real numbers written as 9.55 or 9,55 ? Regards, Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: Xiao LIU (6514827) [Xiao.Liu at nottingham.edu.cn] Sent: 18 October 2013 06:51 To: Jon Hand; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: RE: Error of Installing ESP-r on Mac OS X 10.8.5 Hi, Jon, I have not done a build on this computer before. In the terminal, I got the response as following when I typed the commands Shawn-Liu:~ mac$ which g++ /usr/bin/g++ Shawn-Liu:~ mac$ which gfortran /sw/bin/gfortran Shawn-Liu:~ mac$ which gcc /usr/bin/gcc The version of OSX is 10.8.5 and it is 64 bit Any ideas? Xiao LIU PhD Candidate Centre for Sustainable Energy Technologies (CSET) The University of Nottingham, Ningbo, China (UNNC) Mobile: (+86)150 6746 9263 E-mail: Xiao.Liu at nottingham.edu.cn Address: 199 Taikang East Road, University Park, Ningbo, China Post code: 315100 ________________________________________ From: Jon Hand [jon at esru.strath.ac.uk] Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 4:22 PM To: Xiao LIU (6514827); esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: RE: Error of Installing ESP-r on Mac OS X 10.8.5 >From the message it would appear that you are attempting to install ESP-r on an OSX computer. My guess is that you have not installed the full development environment needed to build ESP-r. Have you done a build on this compueter before? Have you installed the GNU gcc g++ and gfortran compilers as listed in the osx setup instructions e.g. if you give the commands which gcc which g++ which gfortran in a terminal do you get a response? What version of OSX are you running? Regards, Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] on behalf of Xiao LIU (6514827) [Xiao.Liu at nottingham.edu.cn] Sent: 17 October 2013 06:21 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Error of Installing ESP-r on Mac OS X 10.8.5 Subject: Error of Installing ESP-r on Mac OS X 10.8.5 Hi, I am trying to install ESP-r in my computer with the latest system of Mac OS X 10.8.5. Following with the instruction from the website and after resolving several dependencies with other software I still get an error. I am copying the relevant text from the error below (verbose text): - building libX11... Done. - building aco... ERROR: could not build executable aco! ERROR: result /Users/mac/Src/development_branch/src/esruaco/aco! Compilation messages follow: ----------------------------------------- Compilation of aco on Mon Oct 14 11:21:58 CST Make command: ------------- make MCTYPE=osx MCC=gcc MCPL=g++ MFC=gfortran DESTdir=/Users/mac/cset ESPdir=/Users/mac/cset/esp-r WWLINK=unshared EXE= XINSTALLDIR=/usr/X11R6 CFLAGS=-I../include -I../shocc -I/usr/local/include -I../cetc/h3kreports -I/usr/X11R6/include -DOSX -DLIN -m64 -DX11 FFLAGS=-I../include -I../shocc -I/usr/local/include -I../cetc/h3kreports -DOSX -DLIN -m64 -DX11 -fno-automatic -DGCC4 LD_FLAGS= ULIBS=-L/Users/mac/Src/development_branch/src/lib -lversion -lxesru -L/usr/X11R6/lib -lX11 -lXML -lSQLite xml_status= SQLite_status= -f Makefile aco >>.make_msg 2>&1 Make output: ------------ cd `pwd`/esruaco; make gcc -I../include -I../shocc -I/usr/local/include -I../cetc/h3kreports -DOSX -DLIN -m64 -DX11 -fno-automatic -DGCC4 -c h3kmodule.f90 clang: warning: argument unused during compilation: '-I ../include' clang: warning: argument unused during compilation: '-I ../shocc' clang: warning: argument unused during compilation: '-I /usr/local/include' clang: warning: argument unused during compilation: '-I ../cetc/h3kreports' clang: warning: argument unused during compilation: '-fno-automatic' error: invalid value 'f95' in '-x f95' make[1]: *** [h3kmodule.o] Error 1 make: *** [aco] Error 2 ----------------------------------------- Install: Fatal error. Executable aco could not be built! Installation aborted. Could you give me some ideas of how to resolve this? Great appreciation for your help and kindness. I am installing revision r9 9495 of the development branch. Xiao LIU PhD Candidate Centre for Sustainable Energy Technologies (CSET) The University of Nottingham, Ningbo, China (UNNC) Mobile: (+86)150 6746 9263 E-mail: Xiao.Liu at nottingham.edu.cn Address: 199 Taikang East Road, University Park, Ningbo, China Post code: 315100 This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it. Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment. Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of The University of Nottingham Ningbo China. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with The University of Nottingham Ningbo China may be monitored as permitted by UK and Chinese legislation. _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it. Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment. Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of The University of Nottingham Ningbo China. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with The University of Nottingham Ningbo China may be monitored as permitted by UK and Chinese legislation. From A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk Tue Oct 22 12:22:19 2013 From: A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk (Arianna Sdei) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2013 11:22:19 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] simulation message Message-ID: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C121BC3DA881@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> Dear All, I am simulating using an air flow network and while running the simulation I get the following message: Please check (in the following order) that: -each node has some flow path to a boundary pressure and -iteration convergence control is not too strict Can someone help me to interpret what that means and what should I look at in the model? Thank you, Arianna Arianna Sdei Research Fellow IFORE (Innovation For Renewal) UNIVERSITY OF BRIGHTON Moulsecoomb, Lewes Road, Brighton, BN2 4AT direct line: 0044 (0)2036747268 mobile: 0044 (0)7981739024 ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20131022/017fd098/attachment.html From Xiao.Liu at nottingham.edu.cn Tue Oct 22 09:56:02 2013 From: Xiao.Liu at nottingham.edu.cn (Xiao LIU (6514827)) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2013 16:56:02 +0800 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Error of Installing ESP-r on Mac OS X 10.8.5 In-Reply-To: References: , , , Message-ID: Hi, Jon, Yes, you are right. My mistake is that I installed gcc and gfortran in different paths and folders. After correcting the main mistake and following the instruction of installing ESP-r on Mac step by step, I have successfully installed ESP-r on my Mac OS X 10.8.5. Quite thankful to your kindness and help. Best regards, Xiao LIU PhD Candidate Centre for Sustainable Energy Technologies (CSET) The University of Nottingham, Ningbo, China (UNNC) Mobile: (+86)150 6746 9263 E-mail: Xiao.Liu at nottingham.edu.cn Address: 199 Taikang East Road, University Park, Ningbo, China Post code: 315100 ________________________________________ From: Jon Hand [jon at esru.strath.ac.uk] Sent: Friday, October 18, 2013 4:20 PM To: Xiao LIU (6514827); esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: RE: Error of Installing ESP-r on Mac OS X 10.8.5 This is useful information. One issue might be that the gfortran is found in /sw/bin/gfortran and g++ and gcc are in /usr/bin. They might be sufficiently different in their versions to be a problem. What command did you use with the Install script? It should be similar to: ./Install -d /Users/mac/cset/esp-r --gcc4 --debug --reuse_ish_calcs I do not have access to an OSX 10.8.5 computer (mine are 10.7.5) so I cannot replicate this. One more thing - on your computer are real numbers written as 9.55 or 9,55 ? Regards, Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: Xiao LIU (6514827) [Xiao.Liu at nottingham.edu.cn] Sent: 18 October 2013 06:51 To: Jon Hand; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: RE: Error of Installing ESP-r on Mac OS X 10.8.5 Hi, Jon, I have not done a build on this computer before. In the terminal, I got the response as following when I typed the commands Shawn-Liu:~ mac$ which g++ /usr/bin/g++ Shawn-Liu:~ mac$ which gfortran /sw/bin/gfortran Shawn-Liu:~ mac$ which gcc /usr/bin/gcc The version of OSX is 10.8.5 and it is 64 bit Any ideas? Xiao LIU PhD Candidate Centre for Sustainable Energy Technologies (CSET) The University of Nottingham, Ningbo, China (UNNC) Mobile: (+86)150 6746 9263 E-mail: Xiao.Liu at nottingham.edu.cn Address: 199 Taikang East Road, University Park, Ningbo, China Post code: 315100 ________________________________________ From: Jon Hand [jon at esru.strath.ac.uk] Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 4:22 PM To: Xiao LIU (6514827); esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: RE: Error of Installing ESP-r on Mac OS X 10.8.5 >From the message it would appear that you are attempting to install ESP-r on an OSX computer. My guess is that you have not installed the full development environment needed to build ESP-r. Have you done a build on this compueter before? Have you installed the GNU gcc g++ and gfortran compilers as listed in the osx setup instructions e.g. if you give the commands which gcc which g++ which gfortran in a terminal do you get a response? What version of OSX are you running? Regards, Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] on behalf of Xiao LIU (6514827) [Xiao.Liu at nottingham.edu.cn] Sent: 17 October 2013 06:21 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Error of Installing ESP-r on Mac OS X 10.8.5 Subject: Error of Installing ESP-r on Mac OS X 10.8.5 Hi, I am trying to install ESP-r in my computer with the latest system of Mac OS X 10.8.5. Following with the instruction from the website and after resolving several dependencies with other software I still get an error. I am copying the relevant text from the error below (verbose text): - building libX11... Done. - building aco... ERROR: could not build executable aco! ERROR: result /Users/mac/Src/development_branch/src/esruaco/aco! Compilation messages follow: ----------------------------------------- Compilation of aco on Mon Oct 14 11:21:58 CST Make command: ------------- make MCTYPE=osx MCC=gcc MCPL=g++ MFC=gfortran DESTdir=/Users/mac/cset ESPdir=/Users/mac/cset/esp-r WWLINK=unshared EXE= XINSTALLDIR=/usr/X11R6 CFLAGS=-I../include -I../shocc -I/usr/local/include -I../cetc/h3kreports -I/usr/X11R6/include -DOSX -DLIN -m64 -DX11 FFLAGS=-I../include -I../shocc -I/usr/local/include -I../cetc/h3kreports -DOSX -DLIN -m64 -DX11 -fno-automatic -DGCC4 LD_FLAGS= ULIBS=-L/Users/mac/Src/development_branch/src/lib -lversion -lxesru -L/usr/X11R6/lib -lX11 -lXML -lSQLite xml_status= SQLite_status= -f Makefile aco >>.make_msg 2>&1 Make output: ------------ cd `pwd`/esruaco; make gcc -I../include -I../shocc -I/usr/local/include -I../cetc/h3kreports -DOSX -DLIN -m64 -DX11 -fno-automatic -DGCC4 -c h3kmodule.f90 clang: warning: argument unused during compilation: '-I ../include' clang: warning: argument unused during compilation: '-I ../shocc' clang: warning: argument unused during compilation: '-I /usr/local/include' clang: warning: argument unused during compilation: '-I ../cetc/h3kreports' clang: warning: argument unused during compilation: '-fno-automatic' error: invalid value 'f95' in '-x f95' make[1]: *** [h3kmodule.o] Error 1 make: *** [aco] Error 2 ----------------------------------------- Install: Fatal error. Executable aco could not be built! Installation aborted. Could you give me some ideas of how to resolve this? Great appreciation for your help and kindness. I am installing revision r9 9495 of the development branch. Xiao LIU PhD Candidate Centre for Sustainable Energy Technologies (CSET) The University of Nottingham, Ningbo, China (UNNC) Mobile: (+86)150 6746 9263 E-mail: Xiao.Liu at nottingham.edu.cn Address: 199 Taikang East Road, University Park, Ningbo, China Post code: 315100 This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it. Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment. Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of The University of Nottingham Ningbo China. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with The University of Nottingham Ningbo China may be monitored as permitted by UK and Chinese legislation. _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it. Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment. Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of The University of Nottingham Ningbo China. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with The University of Nottingham Ningbo China may be monitored as permitted by UK and Chinese legislation. This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it. Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment. Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of The University of Nottingham Ningbo China. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with The University of Nottingham Ningbo China may be monitored as permitted by UK and Chinese legislation. From aizaz.a.samuel at strath.ac.uk Tue Oct 22 14:04:58 2013 From: aizaz.a.samuel at strath.ac.uk (Aizaz Samuel) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2013 14:04:58 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: simulation message In-Reply-To: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C121BC3DA881@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> References: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C121BC3DA881@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> Message-ID: <526677FA.8090703@strath.ac.uk> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20131022/ccdbe041/attachment.html From achim.geissler at intergga.ch Thu Oct 24 22:20:29 2013 From: achim.geissler at intergga.ch (Achim.geissler) Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2013 23:20:29 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Results with and without PCM Message-ID: Dear Helia, it seems, you have not yet received any answer to your question(s) below. First, I would advise going with your two-zone model and really make sure that the zones are completely identical apart from the PCM. I do not quite understand what you mean by "I couldn't select the zone that I want to simulate". If you have two (or more) zones in a model, the simulations creates results for all of them. If simulation generally does not run, then there is a problem in your model. Compare the results numerically ("list" output in res). Differences may be small and not visible in graphs. Also, be sure the PCM >should< be noticeable, i.e., that melting / solidification temperatures are actually crossed during the simulation period. I hope that helps a bit. Best Achim On Oct 14, 2013, at 10:49 AM, helia.taheri at ut.ac.ir wrote: Hi, I am simulating a model with PCM. I make a model and then I want to simulate it and get some results from it. At firs I run it with PCM and look at the graph. then I run a rare model (without PCM) and look at the graph. I don't see any change in the graphs!!! I don't know what is wrong with the model. Another work that I did in this simulation, I created in a model two zones, that are similar to each other in all the aspects, except one of them has PCM. I wanted to simulate this model and compare the results in one model. Again I couldn't select the zone that I want to simulate (in the simulation and results menu). I don't know what is wrong with my model. Thanks alot for your attention. Best, Helia Taheri _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From achim.geissler at intergga.ch Sun Oct 27 16:46:58 2013 From: achim.geissler at intergga.ch (Achim Geissler) Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2013 12:46:58 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] Re: simulation message - non-convergence of air flow networks In-Reply-To: <526677FA.8090703@strath.ac.uk> References: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C121BC3DA881@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> <526677FA.8090703@strath.ac.uk> Message-ID: <2D434A1D-9C58-4FD4-A7A5-240CB835C59E@intergga.ch> Dear Arianna, in addition to the below, it sometimes helps to reduce simulation time steps (increase number of steps per hour). Also, you can change the parameters used for convergence checking (either every run manually or in the code and recompile). Best Achim On Oct 22, 2013, at 9:04 AM, Aizaz Samuel wrote: > Arianna, > > Somewhere in your model there is mass imbalance that is more than the tolerance allowed within the solver. Usually happens if you close a flow path using control (e.g. window closes but air is still being blown into the room from a fan). I would recommend to check this by removing control and then running the model. Another way forward is to make a sketch of the flow network and visually check if a bad flow path occurs given the constraints of the control you are trying to impose. A usual solution is to always have a flow path from internal nodes to external ones via small cracks (which is correct for most situations). > > Another (rarer) reason is that you may have two components in series that have hugely different flow resistances. > > Regards, > Aizaz > > > On 22/10/13 12:22, Arianna Sdei wrote: >> Dear All, >> >> >> I am simulating using an air flow network and while running the simulation I get the following message: >> >> >> Please check (in the following order) that: >> >> -each node has some flow path to a boundary pressure and >> >> -iteration convergence control is not too strict >> >> >> Can someone help me to interpret what that means and what should I look at in the model? Thank you, >> >> >> Arianna >> >> >> Arianna Sdei >> >> >> Research Fellow IFORE (Innovation For Renewal) >> >> >> UNIVERSITY OF BRIGHTON >> >> >> Moulsecoomb, Lewes Road, Brighton, BN2 4AT >> >> >> direct line: 0044 (0)2036747268 >> >> >> >> mobile: 0044 (0)7981739024 >> >> >> >> >> >> ___________________________________________________________ >> This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security >> System on behalf of the University of Brighton. >> For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ >> ___________________________________________________________ >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> esp-r mailing list >> esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk >> http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r achim.geissler at intergga.ch -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20131027/a6164bee/attachment.html From A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk Mon Oct 28 16:39:43 2013 From: A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk (Arianna Sdei) Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2013 16:39:43 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: simulation message - non-convergence of air flow networks In-Reply-To: <2D434A1D-9C58-4FD4-A7A5-240CB835C59E@intergga.ch> References: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C121BC3DA881@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> <526677FA.8090703@strath.ac.uk> <2D434A1D-9C58-4FD4-A7A5-240CB835C59E@intergga.ch> Message-ID: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C121BC3DB219@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> Hi Achim, thank you for that! How can I do convergence checking? Is there any way ESP-r can automatically check if there is a problem with the airflow network? I have tried with smaller time steps but no change. Let me know, Regards, Arianna From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Achim Geissler Sent: 27 October 2013 16:47 To: Aizaz Samuel Cc: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Re: simulation message - non-convergence of air flow networks Dear Arianna, in addition to the below, it sometimes helps to reduce simulation time steps (increase number of steps per hour). Also, you can change the parameters used for convergence checking (either every run manually or in the code and recompile). Best Achim On Oct 22, 2013, at 9:04 AM, Aizaz Samuel > wrote: Arianna, Somewhere in your model there is mass imbalance that is more than the tolerance allowed within the solver. Usually happens if you close a flow path using control (e.g. window closes but air is still being blown into the room from a fan). I would recommend to check this by removing control and then running the model. Another way forward is to make a sketch of the flow network and visually check if a bad flow path occurs given the constraints of the control you are trying to impose. A usual solution is to always have a flow path from internal nodes to external ones via small cracks (which is correct for most situations). Another (rarer) reason is that you may have two components in series that have hugely different flow resistances. Regards, Aizaz On 22/10/13 12:22, Arianna Sdei wrote: Dear All, I am simulating using an air flow network and while running the simulation I get the following message: Please check (in the following order) that: -each node has some flow path to a boundary pressure and -iteration convergence control is not too strict Can someone help me to interpret what that means and what should I look at in the model? Thank you, Arianna Arianna Sdei Research Fellow IFORE (Innovation For Renewal) UNIVERSITY OF BRIGHTON Moulsecoomb, Lewes Road, Brighton, BN2 4AT direct line: 0044 (0)2036747268 mobile: 0044 (0)7981739024 ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r achim.geissler at intergga.ch ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20131028/9a40c434/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Mon Oct 28 16:51:42 2013 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2013 16:51:42 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: simulation message - non-convergence of air flow networks In-Reply-To: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C121BC3DB219@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> References: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C121BC3DA881@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> <526677FA.8090703@strath.ac.uk> <2D434A1D-9C58-4FD4-A7A5-240CB835C59E@intergga.ch>, <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C121BC3DB219@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> Message-ID: It is ALWAYS GOOD to clearly draw (on paper) your flow network with every name of every entity in the network file shown on your sketch. Use coloured pens to draw the connections between nodes and components. If you are controlling components - like a window - if that is the only connection between the room and the outside then you should also have a crack defined between the room node and the boundary node. And print the flow network file or the section of the model contents report related to network flow and control. Go though each item and each connection and ensure that the sketch and the file is consistent. Regards, Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] on behalf of Arianna Sdei [A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk] Sent: 28 October 2013 16:39 To: Achim Geissler; Aizaz Samuel Cc: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Re: simulation message - non-convergence of air flow networks Hi Achim, thank you for that! How can I do convergence checking? Is there any way ESP-r can automatically check if there is a problem with the airflow network? I have tried with smaller time steps but no change. Let me know, Regards, Arianna From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Achim Geissler Sent: 27 October 2013 16:47 To: Aizaz Samuel Cc: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Re: simulation message - non-convergence of air flow networks Dear Arianna, in addition to the below, it sometimes helps to reduce simulation time steps (increase number of steps per hour). Also, you can change the parameters used for convergence checking (either every run manually or in the code and recompile). Best Achim On Oct 22, 2013, at 9:04 AM, Aizaz Samuel > wrote: Arianna, Somewhere in your model there is mass imbalance that is more than the tolerance allowed within the solver. Usually happens if you close a flow path using control (e.g. window closes but air is still being blown into the room from a fan). I would recommend to check this by removing control and then running the model. Another way forward is to make a sketch of the flow network and visually check if a bad flow path occurs given the constraints of the control you are trying to impose. A usual solution is to always have a flow path from internal nodes to external ones via small cracks (which is correct for most situations). Another (rarer) reason is that you may have two components in series that have hugely different flow resistances. Regards, Aizaz On 22/10/13 12:22, Arianna Sdei wrote: Dear All, I am simulating using an air flow network and while running the simulation I get the following message: Please check (in the following order) that: -each node has some flow path to a boundary pressure and -iteration convergence control is not too strict Can someone help me to interpret what that means and what should I look at in the model? Thank you, Arianna Arianna Sdei Research Fellow IFORE (Innovation For Renewal) UNIVERSITY OF BRIGHTON Moulsecoomb, Lewes Road, Brighton, BN2 4AT direct line: 0044 (0)2036747268 mobile: 0044 (0)7981739024 ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r achim.geissler at intergga.ch ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ From A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk Mon Oct 28 17:29:04 2013 From: A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk (Arianna Sdei) Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2013 17:29:04 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: simulation message - non-convergence of air flow networks In-Reply-To: References: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C121BC3DA881@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> <526677FA.8090703@strath.ac.uk> <2D434A1D-9C58-4FD4-A7A5-240CB835C59E@intergga.ch>, <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C121BC3DB219@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> Message-ID: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C121BC3DB251@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> OK Jon, thank you! I have made a clear drawing of my network and I have just printed out the flow network file in attachment. At the end on the file there are a series of nul values, do you think that could be the problem? How can I solve it? Once I have checked that every node and component has a connection and a flow path to a boundary pressure how can I check that the iteration convergence control is not too strict? Let me know, All the best, Arianna -----Original Message----- From: Jon Hand [mailto:jon at esru.strath.ac.uk] Sent: 28 October 2013 16:52 To: Arianna Sdei; Achim Geissler; Aizaz Samuel Cc: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: RE: [esp-r] Re: simulation message - non-convergence of air flow networks It is ALWAYS GOOD to clearly draw (on paper) your flow network with every name of every entity in the network file shown on your sketch. Use coloured pens to draw the connections between nodes and components. If you are controlling components - like a window - if that is the only connection between the room and the outside then you should also have a crack defined between the room node and the boundary node. And print the flow network file or the section of the model contents report related to network flow and control. Go though each item and each connection and ensure that the sketch and the file is consistent. Regards, Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] on behalf of Arianna Sdei [A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk] Sent: 28 October 2013 16:39 To: Achim Geissler; Aizaz Samuel Cc: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Re: simulation message - non-convergence of air flow networks Hi Achim, thank you for that! How can I do convergence checking? Is there any way ESP-r can automatically check if there is a problem with the airflow network? I have tried with smaller time steps but no change. Let me know, Regards, Arianna From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Achim Geissler Sent: 27 October 2013 16:47 To: Aizaz Samuel Cc: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Re: simulation message - non-convergence of air flow networks Dear Arianna, in addition to the below, it sometimes helps to reduce simulation time steps (increase number of steps per hour). Also, you can change the parameters used for convergence checking (either every run manually or in the code and recompile). Best Achim On Oct 22, 2013, at 9:04 AM, Aizaz Samuel > wrote: Arianna, Somewhere in your model there is mass imbalance that is more than the tolerance allowed within the solver. Usually happens if you close a flow path using control (e.g. window closes but air is still being blown into the room from a fan). I would recommend to check this by removing control and then running the model. Another way forward is to make a sketch of the flow network and visually check if a bad flow path occurs given the constraints of the control you are trying to impose. A usual solution is to always have a flow path from internal nodes to external ones via small cracks (which is correct for most situations). Another (rarer) reason is that you may have two components in series that have hugely different flow resistances. Regards, Aizaz On 22/10/13 12:22, Arianna Sdei wrote: Dear All, I am simulating using an air flow network and while running the simulation I get the following message: Please check (in the following order) that: -each node has some flow path to a boundary pressure and -iteration convergence control is not too strict Can someone help me to interpret what that means and what should I look at in the model? Thank you, Arianna Arianna Sdei Research Fellow IFORE (Innovation For Renewal) UNIVERSITY OF BRIGHTON Moulsecoomb, Lewes Road, Brighton, BN2 4AT direct line: 0044 (0)2036747268 mobile: 0044 (0)7981739024 ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r achim.geissler at intergga.ch ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: type2_phd_b6_airflow.afn Type: application/octet-stream Size: 7200 bytes Desc: type2_phd_b6_airflow.afn Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20131028/ca0087ca/attachment-0001.obj From thomas.ritter at gmx.de Tue Oct 29 13:57:43 2013 From: thomas.ritter at gmx.de (Thomas Ritter) Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2013 14:57:43 +0100 (CET) Subject: [esp-r] Phase Change Material Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20131029/9a7d6f24/attachment.html From amar.seeam at strath.ac.uk Tue Oct 29 14:42:32 2013 From: amar.seeam at strath.ac.uk (Amar Seeam) Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2013 14:42:32 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Scripting and Perl Message-ID: <1383057752.4298.19.camel@eee-neils.eee.strath.ac.uk> Hi all, I would like some help with scripting. Basically I would like to automate runs based on various .cfg files and output the simulation data in CSV format (for further processing and other perl scripts). I have tried to read through the perl scripts in the source branch (tester.pl ) but was wondering if there are any other supporting documentation (...or simpler scripts) for this or if there are specific command line switches I need to instantiate and run bps to generate the CSV files as result output (with user specified columns as well). Thanks in advance. Amar. From ragnhild.hl at gmail.com Tue Oct 29 14:56:43 2013 From: ragnhild.hl at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ragnhild_Haukland_L=F8ge?=) Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2013 15:56:43 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Solar heating system control Message-ID: Hello, I am trying to model a solar heating system consisting of three components: solar collector, tank and a pump. I want the pump to operate only when the temperature difference between the solar collector and the storage tank is larger than 5 degrees C. Under Controls->Plants and systems-> sensor details-> senses output of a plant component, i choose the solar collector as the "plant component for sensor". I am then asked: "Plant component node for sensor?" and I assumed that because I have a one-node flat plate collector that the answer to this is 1. A followup question appears: "2nd Plant component index for sensor?". What number/index are they asking for here? I tried to write the index number for the plants database for the tank but it does not seem to work. Does anyone know how to define that the sensor should sense the temperature difference between two components? In version 12, this part was clear as there was a question whether or not the sensor should sense a temperature difference between two components, but in the version I am using now I cannot figure it out. I am using ESP-r version 11.4 (platform i686:Linux:2.6.23.1-21.fc7). I am still a novice user of the software and any help is much appreciated :) Kind regards, Ragnhild L?ge -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20131029/b9d89c8c/attachment.html From aizaz.a.samuel at strath.ac.uk Tue Oct 29 15:41:55 2013 From: aizaz.a.samuel at strath.ac.uk (Aizaz Samuel) Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2013 15:41:55 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Scripting and Perl In-Reply-To: <1383057752.4298.19.camel@eee-neils.eee.strath.ac.uk> References: <1383057752.4298.19.camel@eee-neils.eee.strath.ac.uk> Message-ID: <526FD743.10608@strath.ac.uk> Amar, Try using csh or bash before moving on to perl For these scripts look in src/validation/benchmark/DSM/script/ src/validation/benchmark/CFD/*.csh src/validation/benchmark/HUE/gen_prototype/ You may also try looking into the xml output option (no need to run res!) Regards, Aizaz On 29/10/2013 14:42, Amar Seeam wrote: > Hi all, > > I would like some help with scripting. Basically I would like to > automate runs based on various .cfg files and output the simulation data > in CSV format (for further processing and other perl scripts). > > I have tried to read through the perl scripts in the source branch > (tester.pl ) but was wondering if there are any other supporting > documentation (...or simpler scripts) for this or if there are specific > command line switches I need to instantiate and run bps to generate the > CSV files as result output (with user specified columns as well). > > Thanks in advance. > > Amar. > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > From gianluca.brunetti at polimi.it Tue Oct 29 16:32:03 2013 From: gianluca.brunetti at polimi.it (Gian Luca Brunetti) Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2013 16:32:03 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Scripting and Perl In-Reply-To: <1383057752.4298.19.camel@eee-neils.eee.strath.ac.uk> References: <1383057752.4298.19.camel@eee-neils.eee.strath.ac.uk> Message-ID: <40de2fc6e7d64884a9bbfb5eb375db7c@AM3PR06MB196.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com> Hi Amar, when you'll take at look at Perl after you'll have studied some example shell scripts, you'll see that the input to the shell is (comparatively) easy with Perl, because of Perl's capability of variable interpolation (like Ruby, for instance). Basically, you have to print to the shell what you would type to the keyboard. The following script for example will move a zone: print `prj -file $file -mode script< on behalf of Amar Seeam Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2013 3:42 PM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Scripting and Perl Hi all, I would like some help with scripting. Basically I would like to automate runs based on various .cfg files and output the simulation data in CSV format (for further processing and other perl scripts). I have tried to read through the perl scripts in the source branch (tester.pl ) but was wondering if there are any other supporting documentation (...or simpler scripts) for this or if there are specific command line switches I need to instantiate and run bps to generate the CSV files as result output (with user specified columns as well). Thanks in advance. Amar. _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Tue Oct 29 16:42:46 2013 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2013 16:42:46 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] FW: Hint when exemplar models get updated in ESP-r Message-ID: This observation was noted during a University workshop where some students had previously worked on a model and made some errors and then asked to work with that exemplar again in the Project Manager... The exemplar model was copied over the original (messed up) model but on Windows did not overwrite the original messed up files so the problem persisted. What you should do is move the faulty model or get rid of it before requesting the exemplar again. Or you could provide a slightly different folder name. Regards, Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: Paul Strachan [paul at esru.strath.ac.uk] Sent: 22 October 2013 15:27 To: Jon Hand Subject: prj todo When copying a model from the exemplar list, first delete the directory if there is already a model of that name - otherwise if there are additional files in that directory they will still remain (e.g. incorrect casual gains control file ....). Paul From achim.geissler at intergga.ch Tue Oct 29 20:11:53 2013 From: achim.geissler at intergga.ch (Achim Geissler) Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2013 16:11:53 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Solar heating system control In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1AFDD84B-DEC3-4C56-B611-C1B9622AEF63@intergga.ch> Dear Ragnhild, did you try the index of the tank in your plant network file (i.e. the number of the plant component there)? Best Achim On Oct 29, 2013, at 10:56 AM, Ragnhild Haukland L?ge wrote: > Hello, > > I am trying to model a solar heating system consisting of three components: solar collector, tank and a pump. > > I want the pump to operate only when the temperature difference between the solar collector and the storage tank is larger than 5 degrees C. > > Under Controls->Plants and systems-> sensor details-> senses output of a plant component, i choose the solar collector as the "plant component for sensor". I am then asked: "Plant component node for sensor?" and I assumed that because I have a one-node flat plate collector that the answer to this is 1. A followup question appears: "2nd Plant component index for sensor?". What number/index are they asking for here? I tried to write the index number for the plants database for the tank but it does not seem to work. Does anyone know how to define that the sensor should sense the temperature difference between two components? > > In version 12, this part was clear as there was a question whether or not the sensor should sense a temperature difference between two components, but in the version I am using now I cannot figure it out. > > I am using ESP-r version 11.4 (platform i686:Linux:2.6.23.1-21.fc7). I am still a novice user of the software and any help is much appreciated :) > > Kind regards, > Ragnhild L?ge > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r achim.geissler at intergga.ch From achim.geissler at intergga.ch Tue Oct 29 20:20:49 2013 From: achim.geissler at intergga.ch (Achim Geissler) Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2013 16:20:49 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Phase Change Material In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear Thomas, if you look in the file mscomp.db1 you will find the description for the simple model (53): beyond phase change temperature range latent heat of material is equal to 0. In phase change temperature range latent heat is: 1 - constant LHT=b 2 - linear function of temperature LHT=aT+b according to this two cases can be considered: 1 - latent heat is constant in temperature range (Ts-Tm), y=ax+b (a=0, b=latent heat [J/kg*K]) 2 - latent heat is a linear function of temperature, y=ax+b (a=latent heat [J/kg*K^2], b=latent heat [J/kg*K]) According to this, your approach will likely work numerically, however, if the actual behaviour / results have anything to do with reality is a totally different question. Some suggestions: - If you are working under contract, be sure to clearly define the extremely limited information you are basing your simulations on and the possible consequences of this to your client - if you are working scientifically, then be sure to collect more information on the PCM Best Achim On Oct 29, 2013, at 9:57 AM, Thomas Ritter wrote: > Dear all, > > i'm trying to implement a PCM by the active materials section in esp-r. > > Within my information about the chosen PCM, it is given only one temperature for solidfication and melting (23?C). > Additionaly there is value given for the latent heat (13,2 kJ/kg). > > In July this year a message about PCM modelling was answered with the possibility of a simpler model where latent heat flux is constant versus temperature. > > Do I have to pretend that for example the melting temp. is 22,9?C and the soldifaction temp is 23,1?C and then take for latent heat member b 13,2 kJ/kg divided by 0,2 K, while a = 0? Or is there a way to calculate with temperature for melting equal temperature for solidification? > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r achim.geissler at intergga.ch -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20131029/24e61375/attachment.html From amar.seeam at strath.ac.uk Wed Oct 30 13:57:25 2013 From: amar.seeam at strath.ac.uk (Amar Seeam) Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2013 13:57:25 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Scripting and Perl In-Reply-To: <40de2fc6e7d64884a9bbfb5eb375db7c@AM3PR06MB196.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com> References: <1383057752.4298.19.camel@eee-neils.eee.strath.ac.uk> <40de2fc6e7d64884a9bbfb5eb375db7c@AM3PR06MB196.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <1383141445.4298.26.camel@eee-neils.eee.strath.ac.uk> Thanks, It's still not clear what command line calls I need for bps to output CSV with a res file. I have configured input.xml and placed it in the cfg directory, and configured H3K reports, placed a path to xsl directory and selected CSV, but there is no CSV file to be found. Amar, On Tue, 2013-10-29 at 16:32 +0000, Gian Luca Brunetti wrote: > Hi Amar, > when you'll take at look at Perl after you'll have studied some example shell scripts, you'll see that the input to the shell is (comparatively) easy with Perl, because of Perl's capability of variable interpolation (like Ruby, for instance). > > Basically, you have to print to the shell what you would type to the keyboard. > > The following script for example will move a zone: > > print `prj -file $file -mode script< > m > c > a > $zone > i > e > $x_movement $y_movement $z_movement > y > $yes_or_no > - > y > c > - > - > - > - > - > - > - > - > YYY > `; > > The backquotes makes you enter the shell and exit from it. > > The advantage of Perl over, say, Python in this case is that variables are named instead of attributed by position (order); which may make the scripts look clearer. > > About the CSV output with Perl, I think that basically it is a matter of printing (items separated by commas). > > If you already have a table on a file, I think that you may convert it in csv format using regular expressions instead. > > Best regards > > Gian Luca Brunetti > > > ________________________________________ > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk on behalf of Amar Seeam > Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2013 3:42 PM > To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Subject: [esp-r] Scripting and Perl > > Hi all, > > I would like some help with scripting. Basically I would like to > automate runs based on various .cfg files and output the simulation data > in CSV format (for further processing and other perl scripts). > > I have tried to read through the perl scripts in the source branch > (tester.pl ) but was wondering if there are any other supporting > documentation (...or simpler scripts) for this or if there are specific > command line switches I need to instantiate and run bps to generate the > CSV files as result output (with user specified columns as well). > > Thanks in advance. > > Amar. > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From gianluca.brunetti at polimi.it Wed Oct 30 16:20:46 2013 From: gianluca.brunetti at polimi.it (Gian Luca Brunetti) Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2013 16:20:46 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Scripting and Perl In-Reply-To: <1383141445.4298.26.camel@eee-neils.eee.strath.ac.uk> References: <1383057752.4298.19.camel@eee-neils.eee.strath.ac.uk> <40de2fc6e7d64884a9bbfb5eb375db7c@AM3PR06MB196.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>, <1383141445.4298.26.camel@eee-neils.eee.strath.ac.uk> Message-ID: I am sorry. I now realize I had not fully understood the question. I am afraid I cannot be of help about it, since I never used the xml output. (I usually make a program read the bps-made plain text grt files, spot the information I need with regular expressions and push it in memory or print it (in csv format or plain text) with a print loop.) Best regards Gian Luca Brunetti ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk on behalf of Amar Seeam Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2013 2:57 PM To: Gian Luca Brunetti Cc: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Re: Scripting and Perl Thanks, It's still not clear what command line calls I need for bps to output CSV with a res file. I have configured input.xml and placed it in the cfg directory, and configured H3K reports, placed a path to xsl directory and selected CSV, but there is no CSV file to be found. Amar, On Tue, 2013-10-29 at 16:32 +0000, Gian Luca Brunetti wrote: > Hi Amar, > when you'll take at look at Perl after you'll have studied some example shell scripts, you'll see that the input to the shell is (comparatively) easy with Perl, because of Perl's capability of variable interpolation (like Ruby, for instance). > > Basically, you have to print to the shell what you would type to the keyboard. > > The following script for example will move a zone: > > print `prj -file $file -mode script< > m > c > a > $zone > i > e > $x_movement $y_movement $z_movement > y > $yes_or_no > - > y > c > - > - > - > - > - > - > - > - > YYY > `; > > The backquotes makes you enter the shell and exit from it. > > The advantage of Perl over, say, Python in this case is that variables are named instead of attributed by position (order); which may make the scripts look clearer. > > About the CSV output with Perl, I think that basically it is a matter of printing (items separated by commas). > > If you already have a table on a file, I think that you may convert it in csv format using regular expressions instead. > > Best regards > > Gian Luca Brunetti > > > ________________________________________ > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk on behalf of Amar Seeam > Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2013 3:42 PM > To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Subject: [esp-r] Scripting and Perl > > Hi all, > > I would like some help with scripting. Basically I would like to > automate runs based on various .cfg files and output the simulation data > in CSV format (for further processing and other perl scripts). > > I have tried to read through the perl scripts in the source branch > (tester.pl ) but was wondering if there are any other supporting > documentation (...or simpler scripts) for this or if there are specific > command line switches I need to instantiate and run bps to generate the > CSV files as result output (with user specified columns as well). > > Thanks in advance. > > Amar. > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From achim.geissler at fhnw.ch Wed Oct 30 16:38:27 2013 From: achim.geissler at fhnw.ch (Geissler Achim) Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2013 16:38:27 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: simulation message - non-convergence of air flow networks In-Reply-To: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C121BC3DB251@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> References: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C121BC3DA881@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> <526677FA.8090703@strath.ac.uk> <2D434A1D-9C58-4FD4-A7A5-240CB835C59E@intergga.ch>, <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C121BC3DB219@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C121BC3DB251@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> Message-ID: Hi Arianna, interesting network. I have never used the component type "self regulating vent". In case you still have not resolved your problems, I would start out with replacing these vents by cracks or simply deleting them (if each zone then still has a flow path to exterior). Then try the network again. Depending on how these vents actually work, they may induce flow instabilities in the network. Also, assuming your doors to the hallway are all open, you have huge openings here to a probably limited volume (hallway). "specific air flow door" is, I think, the bi-directional flow component. Again, this configuration may lead to instabilities. Again, you could replace the doors with "cracks beneath closed doors" and try again. When you write you have tried shorter time steps, what time steps do you mean? Ten minutes? Less? Have you tried really short time steps below a minute? When you start a simulation via prj in interactive mode you can toggle the parameters for air flow convergence. In general, the residue parameters are not very strict, however, each time step has only 100 iterations max. If you get the warning each and every time step, then it will probably not help to increase this. If the warning pops up only occasionally, then it may help. If running bps via script, ======= bps -file $CONFIG -mode text > ${RESULTS}.scratch <> ${RESULTS}_convergence-failed.lst echo "===== convergence failure timestep list =======" >> ${RESULTS}_convergence-failed.lst grep "Month $MON" ${RESULTS}.scratch >> ${RESULTS}_convergence-failed.lst echo "===== ================================= =======" >> ${RESULTS}_convergence-failed.lst echo " " >> ${RESULTS}_convergence-failed.lst #rm ${CONFIG}.scratch done ======= to the shell script to generate a report on how often the warning actually occurs. Hope this helps on a bit further. Best, Achim > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] Im > Auftrag von Arianna Sdei > Gesendet: Montag, 28. Oktober 2013 18:29 > An: Jon Hand; Achim Geissler; Aizaz Samuel > Cc: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Betreff: [esp-r] Re: simulation message - non-convergence of air flow networks > > OK Jon, > > thank you! I have made a clear drawing of my network and I have just printed out > the flow network file in attachment. At the end on the file there are a series of nul > values, do you think that could be the problem? How can I solve it? Once I have > checked that every node and component has a connection and a flow path to a > boundary pressure how can I check that the iteration convergence control is not > too strict? > > Let me know, > > All the best, > > Arianna > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jon Hand [mailto:jon at esru.strath.ac.uk] > Sent: 28 October 2013 16:52 > To: Arianna Sdei; Achim Geissler; Aizaz Samuel > Cc: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Subject: RE: [esp-r] Re: simulation message - non-convergence of air flow > networks > > > It is ALWAYS GOOD to clearly draw (on paper) your flow network with every name > of every entity in the network file shown on your sketch. Use coloured pens to > draw the connections between nodes and components. > > If you are controlling components - like a window - if that is the only connection > between the room and the outside then you should also have a crack defined > between the room node and the boundary node. > > And print the flow network file or the section of the model contents report related > to network flow and control. Go though each item and each connection and > ensure that the sketch and the file is consistent. > > Regards, Jon Hand > > ________________________________________ > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] on > behalf of Arianna Sdei [A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk] > Sent: 28 October 2013 16:39 > To: Achim Geissler; Aizaz Samuel > Cc: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Subject: [esp-r] Re: simulation message - non-convergence of air flow > networks > > Hi Achim, > > thank you for that! How can I do convergence checking? Is there any way ESP-r > can automatically check if there is a problem with the airflow network? I have tried > with smaller time steps but no change. Let me know, > > Regards, > Arianna > > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] > On Behalf Of Achim Geissler > Sent: 27 October 2013 16:47 > To: Aizaz Samuel > Cc: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Subject: [esp-r] Re: simulation message - non-convergence of air flow networks > > Dear Arianna, > > in addition to the below, it sometimes helps to reduce simulation time steps > (increase number of steps per hour). Also, you can change the parameters used > for convergence checking (either every run manually or in the code and recompile). > > Best > Achim > > > > On Oct 22, 2013, at 9:04 AM, Aizaz Samuel > > wrote: > > > Arianna, > > Somewhere in your model there is mass imbalance that is more than the tolerance > allowed within the solver. Usually happens if you close a flow path using control > (e.g. window closes but air is still being blown into the room from a fan). I would > recommend to check this by removing control and then running the model. Another > way forward is to make a sketch of the flow network and visually check if a bad > flow path occurs given the constraints of the control you are trying to impose. A > usual solution is to always have a flow path from internal nodes to external ones > via small cracks (which is correct for most situations). > > Another (rarer) reason is that you may have two components in series that have > hugely different flow resistances. > > Regards, > Aizaz > > On 22/10/13 12:22, Arianna Sdei wrote: > Dear All, > > I am simulating using an air flow network and while running the simulation I get the > following message: > > Please check (in the following order) that: > -each node has some flow path to a boundary pressure and -iteration convergence > control is not too strict > > Can someone help me to interpret what that means and what should I look at in the > model? Thank you, > > Arianna > > Arianna Sdei > > Research Fellow IFORE (Innovation For Renewal) > > UNIVERSITY OF BRIGHTON > > Moulsecoomb, Lewes Road, Brighton, BN2 4AT > > direct line: 0044 (0)2036747268 > > mobile: 0044 (0)7981739024 > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf > of the University of Brighton. > For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ > ___________________________________________________________ > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > esp-r mailing list > > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > > achim.geissler at intergga.ch > > > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf > of the University of Brighton. > For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ > ___________________________________________________________ > > ___________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf > of the University of Brighton. > For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ > ___________________________________________________________ > > ___________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf > of the University of Brighton. > For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ > ___________________________________________________________ > > ___________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security > System on behalf of the University of Brighton. > For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ > ___________________________________________________________ From achim.geissler at fhnw.ch Wed Oct 30 16:51:29 2013 From: achim.geissler at fhnw.ch (Geissler Achim) Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2013 16:51:29 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Scripting and Perl In-Reply-To: References: <1383057752.4298.19.camel@eee-neils.eee.strath.ac.uk> <40de2fc6e7d64884a9bbfb5eb375db7c@AM3PR06MB196.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>, <1383141445.4298.26.camel@eee-neils.eee.strath.ac.uk> Message-ID: Dear Amar, to use xml output, you need to put the input.xml file in the directory from which you fire up ESP-r, not necessarily the cfg folder (however, it has proven good practice to start up ESP-r from the cfg folder on Unix like systems, in any case). You should then get files "dictionary.out", "out.xml" and "out.csv" if you have defined some xxx output. If you want to generate csv files via scripting, you must call res from a script, like so: === # Expects 3 parameters on call! # RESFILE=$1 FILEOUT=$2 ZONE=$3 res -file $RESFILE -mode text >> /dev/null < # switch output to file $FILEOUT$ZONE.dat # confirm title 3rd party graph ^ # change delimiter e # e comma, c tabulator h # Heat/cool/humidify a # Sensible heating load ! # List data > # switch display to screen ("flush") - # exit - # exit tab output - # Quit res analysis ZZZ unset RESFILE unset FILEOUT unset ZONE === Best Achim > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] Im > Auftrag von Gian Luca Brunetti > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 30. Oktober 2013 17:21 > An: Amar Seeam > Cc: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Betreff: [esp-r] Re: Scripting and Perl > > I am sorry. I now realize I had not fully understood the question. > > I am afraid I cannot be of help about it, since I never used the xml output. > > (I usually make a program read the bps-made plain text grt files, spot the > information I need with regular expressions and push it in memory or print it (in csv > format or plain text) with a print loop.) > > Best regards > > Gian Luca Brunetti > > ________________________________________ > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk on > behalf of Amar Seeam > Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2013 2:57 PM > To: Gian Luca Brunetti > Cc: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Subject: [esp-r] Re: Scripting and Perl > > Thanks, > > It's still not clear what command line calls I need for bps to output CSV with a res > file. > > I have configured input.xml and placed it in the cfg directory, and configured H3K > reports, placed a path to xsl directory and selected CSV, but there is no CSV file > to be found. > > Amar, > > On Tue, 2013-10-29 at 16:32 +0000, Gian Luca Brunetti wrote: > > Hi Amar, > > when you'll take at look at Perl after you'll have studied some example shell > scripts, you'll see that the input to the shell is (comparatively) easy with Perl, > because of Perl's capability of variable interpolation (like Ruby, for instance). > > > > Basically, you have to print to the shell what you would type to the keyboard. > > > > The following script for example will move a zone: > > > > print `prj -file $file -mode script< > > > m > > c > > a > > $zone > > i > > e > > $x_movement $y_movement $z_movement > > y > > $yes_or_no > > - > > y > > c > > - > > - > > - > > - > > - > > - > > - > > - > > YYY > > `; > > > > The backquotes makes you enter the shell and exit from it. > > > > The advantage of Perl over, say, Python in this case is that variables are named > instead of attributed by position (order); which may make the scripts look clearer. > > > > About the CSV output with Perl, I think that basically it is a matter of printing > (items separated by commas). > > > > If you already have a table on a file, I think that you may convert it in csv format > using regular expressions instead. > > > > Best regards > > > > Gian Luca Brunetti > > > > > > ________________________________________ > > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk > > on behalf of Amar Seeam > > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2013 3:42 PM > > To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > Subject: [esp-r] Scripting and Perl > > > > Hi all, > > > > I would like some help with scripting. Basically I would like to > > automate runs based on various .cfg files and output the simulation > > data in CSV format (for further processing and other perl scripts). > > > > I have tried to read through the perl scripts in the source branch > > (tester.pl ) but was wondering if there are any other supporting > > documentation (...or simpler scripts) for this or if there are > > specific command line switches I need to instantiate and run bps to > > generate the CSV files as result output (with user specified columns as well). > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > Amar. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > esp-r mailing list > > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From Alex.Ferguson at NRCan-RNCan.gc.ca Wed Oct 30 17:15:47 2013 From: Alex.Ferguson at NRCan-RNCan.gc.ca (Ferguson, Alex) Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2013 17:15:47 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Scripting and Perl In-Reply-To: <1383141445.4298.26.camel@eee-neils.eee.strath.ac.uk> References: <1383057752.4298.19.camel@eee-neils.eee.strath.ac.uk> <40de2fc6e7d64884a9bbfb5eb375db7c@AM3PR06MB196.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com> <1383141445.4298.26.camel@eee-neils.eee.strath.ac.uk> Message-ID: <6E91C8562E39DD498E62F5AE4BF7224569B0D99C@S-BSC-MBX3.nrn.nrcan.gc.ca> Hi Amir, Please confirm that bps was compiled with support for H3Kreports. Run the command 'bps -buildinfo'; you should get something like the following. ------------------------------------------------------------------ $ bps -buildinfo ESP-r Integrated Building Performance Simulator (bps). This is a development copy of bps, based on ESP-r release 11.11. Copyright resides with the member organisations of the ESP-r development consortium as listed at: http://www.esru.strath.ac.uk/Programs/ESP-r_central.htm Build information: - SVN Source: Alex_Ferguson at r9508 (unmodified) - Platform: i686:CYGWIN_NT-6.1:1.7.20(0.266/5/3) - Compilers: gcc/g++/gfortran - Graphics Library: X11 - XML output: Supported ------------------------------------------------------------------ Provided that bps reports 'XML output: Supported', you can produce csv output directly from bps. To do so, copy the following into a file called 'input.xml', and save that in your model's cfg folder. Run bps, and you should find a file called out.csv in the cfg directory. Text to copy into input.xml -----+ | V false true false tree false false ^ | Text to copy into input.xml -----+ Note that you can also configure H3K reports to filter specific variables, apply time-step averaging, and output to xml or other text-based formats via xslt. These options are described in src/cetc/h3kreports/H3Kreports_Configuration.txt . Hope that helps, - Alex -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Amar Seeam Sent: October 30, 2013 09:57 To: Gian Luca Brunetti Cc: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Re: Scripting and Perl Thanks, It's still not clear what command line calls I need for bps to output CSV with a res file. I have configured input.xml and placed it in the cfg directory, and configured H3K reports, placed a path to xsl directory and selected CSV, but there is no CSV file to be found. Amar, On Tue, 2013-10-29 at 16:32 +0000, Gian Luca Brunetti wrote: > Hi Amar, > when you'll take at look at Perl after you'll have studied some example shell scripts, you'll see that the input to the shell is (comparatively) easy with Perl, because of Perl's capability of variable interpolation (like Ruby, for instance). > > Basically, you have to print to the shell what you would type to the keyboard. > > The following script for example will move a zone: > > print `prj -file $file -mode script< > m > c > a > $zone > i > e > $x_movement $y_movement $z_movement > y > $yes_or_no > - > y > c > - > - > - > - > - > - > - > - > YYY > `; > > The backquotes makes you enter the shell and exit from it. > > The advantage of Perl over, say, Python in this case is that variables are named instead of attributed by position (order); which may make the scripts look clearer. > > About the CSV output with Perl, I think that basically it is a matter of printing (items separated by commas). > > If you already have a table on a file, I think that you may convert it in csv format using regular expressions instead. > > Best regards > > Gian Luca Brunetti > > > ________________________________________ > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk > on behalf of Amar Seeam > > Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2013 3:42 PM > To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Subject: [esp-r] Scripting and Perl > > Hi all, > > I would like some help with scripting. Basically I would like to > automate runs based on various .cfg files and output the simulation > data in CSV format (for further processing and other perl scripts). > > I have tried to read through the perl scripts in the source branch > (tester.pl ) but was wondering if there are any other supporting > documentation (...or simpler scripts) for this or if there are > specific command line switches I need to instantiate and run bps to > generate the CSV files as result output (with user specified columns as well). > > Thanks in advance. > > Amar. > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From amar.seeam at strath.ac.uk Wed Oct 30 20:07:50 2013 From: amar.seeam at strath.ac.uk (Amar Seeam) Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2013 20:07:50 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: esp-r Digest, Vol 87, Issue 16 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0864B8310DF4074AB966763D3D9C26630DCC62FE@EX2010-MBX2.ds.strath.ac.uk> Thanks Geissler, this is exactly what I was looking for. Amar. ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] on behalf of esp-r-request at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-request at lists.strath.ac.uk] Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2013 5:30 PM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: esp-r Digest, Vol 87, Issue 16 Send esp-r mailing list submissions to esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to esp-r-request at lists.strath.ac.uk You can reach the person managing the list at esp-r-owner at lists.strath.ac.uk When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of esp-r digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Scripting and Perl (Geissler Achim) 2. Re: Scripting and Perl (Ferguson, Alex) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2013 16:51:29 +0000 From: Geissler Achim Subject: [esp-r] Re: Scripting and Perl To: "esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Dear Amar, to use xml output, you need to put the input.xml file in the directory from which you fire up ESP-r, not necessarily the cfg folder (however, it has proven good practice to start up ESP-r from the cfg folder on Unix like systems, in any case). You should then get files "dictionary.out", "out.xml" and "out.csv" if you have defined some xxx output. If you want to generate csv files via scripting, you must call res from a script, like so: === # Expects 3 parameters on call! # RESFILE=$1 FILEOUT=$2 ZONE=$3 res -file $RESFILE -mode text >> /dev/null < # switch output to file $FILEOUT$ZONE.dat # confirm title 3rd party graph ^ # change delimiter e # e comma, c tabulator h # Heat/cool/humidify a # Sensible heating load ! # List data > # switch display to screen ("flush") - # exit - # exit tab output - # Quit res analysis ZZZ unset RESFILE unset FILEOUT unset ZONE === Best Achim > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] Im > Auftrag von Gian Luca Brunetti > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 30. Oktober 2013 17:21 > An: Amar Seeam > Cc: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Betreff: [esp-r] Re: Scripting and Perl > > I am sorry. I now realize I had not fully understood the question. > > I am afraid I cannot be of help about it, since I never used the xml output. > > (I usually make a program read the bps-made plain text grt files, spot the > information I need with regular expressions and push it in memory or print it (in csv > format or plain text) with a print loop.) > > Best regards > > Gian Luca Brunetti > > ________________________________________ > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk on > behalf of Amar Seeam > Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2013 2:57 PM > To: Gian Luca Brunetti > Cc: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Subject: [esp-r] Re: Scripting and Perl > > Thanks, > > It's still not clear what command line calls I need for bps to output CSV with a res > file. > > I have configured input.xml and placed it in the cfg directory, and configured H3K > reports, placed a path to xsl directory and selected CSV, but there is no CSV file > to be found. > > Amar, > > On Tue, 2013-10-29 at 16:32 +0000, Gian Luca Brunetti wrote: > > Hi Amar, > > when you'll take at look at Perl after you'll have studied some example shell > scripts, you'll see that the input to the shell is (comparatively) easy with Perl, > because of Perl's capability of variable interpolation (like Ruby, for instance). > > > > Basically, you have to print to the shell what you would type to the keyboard. > > > > The following script for example will move a zone: > > > > print `prj -file $file -mode script< > > > m > > c > > a > > $zone > > i > > e > > $x_movement $y_movement $z_movement > > y > > $yes_or_no > > - > > y > > c > > - > > - > > - > > - > > - > > - > > - > > - > > YYY > > `; > > > > The backquotes makes you enter the shell and exit from it. > > > > The advantage of Perl over, say, Python in this case is that variables are named > instead of attributed by position (order); which may make the scripts look clearer. > > > > About the CSV output with Perl, I think that basically it is a matter of printing > (items separated by commas). > > > > If you already have a table on a file, I think that you may convert it in csv format > using regular expressions instead. > > > > Best regards > > > > Gian Luca Brunetti > > > > > > ________________________________________ > > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk > > on behalf of Amar Seeam > > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2013 3:42 PM > > To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > Subject: [esp-r] Scripting and Perl > > > > Hi all, > > > > I would like some help with scripting. Basically I would like to > > automate runs based on various .cfg files and output the simulation > > data in CSV format (for further processing and other perl scripts). > > > > I have tried to read through the perl scripts in the source branch > > (tester.pl ) but was wondering if there are any other supporting > > documentation (...or simpler scripts) for this or if there are > > specific command line switches I need to instantiate and run bps to > > generate the CSV files as result output (with user specified columns as well). > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > Amar. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > esp-r mailing list > > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2013 17:15:47 +0000 From: "Ferguson, Alex" Subject: [esp-r] Re: Scripting and Perl To: "esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk" Message-ID: <6E91C8562E39DD498E62F5AE4BF7224569B0D99C at S-BSC-MBX3.nrn.nrcan.gc.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Amir, Please confirm that bps was compiled with support for H3Kreports. Run the command 'bps -buildinfo'; you should get something like the following. ------------------------------------------------------------------ $ bps -buildinfo ESP-r Integrated Building Performance Simulator (bps). This is a development copy of bps, based on ESP-r release 11.11. Copyright resides with the member organisations of the ESP-r development consortium as listed at: http://www.esru.strath.ac.uk/Programs/ESP-r_central.htm Build information: - SVN Source: Alex_Ferguson at r9508 (unmodified) - Platform: i686:CYGWIN_NT-6.1:1.7.20(0.266/5/3) - Compilers: gcc/g++/gfortran - Graphics Library: X11 - XML output: Supported ------------------------------------------------------------------ Provided that bps reports 'XML output: Supported', you can produce csv output directly from bps. To do so, copy the following into a file called 'input.xml', and save that in your model's cfg folder. Run bps, and you should find a file called out.csv in the cfg directory. Text to copy into input.xml -----+ | V false true false tree false false ^ | Text to copy into input.xml -----+ Note that you can also configure H3K reports to filter specific variables, apply time-step averaging, and output to xml or other text-based formats via xslt. These options are described in src/cetc/h3kreports/H3Kreports_Configuration.txt . Hope that helps, - Alex -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Amar Seeam Sent: October 30, 2013 09:57 To: Gian Luca Brunetti Cc: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Re: Scripting and Perl Thanks, It's still not clear what command line calls I need for bps to output CSV with a res file. I have configured input.xml and placed it in the cfg directory, and configured H3K reports, placed a path to xsl directory and selected CSV, but there is no CSV file to be found. Amar, On Tue, 2013-10-29 at 16:32 +0000, Gian Luca Brunetti wrote: > Hi Amar, > when you'll take at look at Perl after you'll have studied some example shell scripts, you'll see that the input to the shell is (comparatively) easy with Perl, because of Perl's capability of variable interpolation (like Ruby, for instance). > > Basically, you have to print to the shell what you would type to the keyboard. > > The following script for example will move a zone: > > print `prj -file $file -mode script< > m > c > a > $zone > i > e > $x_movement $y_movement $z_movement > y > $yes_or_no > - > y > c > - > - > - > - > - > - > - > - > YYY > `; > > The backquotes makes you enter the shell and exit from it. > > The advantage of Perl over, say, Python in this case is that variables are named instead of attributed by position (order); which may make the scripts look clearer. > > About the CSV output with Perl, I think that basically it is a matter of printing (items separated by commas). > > If you already have a table on a file, I think that you may convert it in csv format using regular expressions instead. > > Best regards > > Gian Luca Brunetti > > > ________________________________________ > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk > on behalf of Amar Seeam > > Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2013 3:42 PM > To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Subject: [esp-r] Scripting and Perl > > Hi all, > > I would like some help with scripting. Basically I would like to > automate runs based on various .cfg files and output the simulation > data in CSV format (for further processing and other perl scripts). > > I have tried to read through the perl scripts in the source branch > (tester.pl ) but was wondering if there are any other supporting > documentation (...or simpler scripts) for this or if there are > specific command line switches I need to instantiate and run bps to > generate the CSV files as result output (with user specified columns as well). > > Thanks in advance. > > Amar. > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r End of esp-r Digest, Vol 87, Issue 16 ************************************* From ragnhild.hl at gmail.com Thu Oct 31 08:40:42 2013 From: ragnhild.hl at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ragnhild_Haukland_L=F8ge?=) Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2013 09:40:42 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Problems with plants and controls Message-ID: Hello, I am trying to model a solar heating system for a leisure home in ESP-r. At first I tried to build the model in ESP-r version 12.0 with the following Build information: -SVN source - development_branch at r9412 (unmodified) -Platform- x86_64:Linux:3.8.0-29-generic -Compilers- gcc/g++/gfortran It seems that the plantsdb is missing. When i choose database maintenance->plant components->browse/edit, no list of plant components appears at all. In the terminal it says 'Error: -mode does not exist', while in the ESP-r window it says 'There are 112 components in plantc.db1'. I tried to open the same database on three different computers using the same version of ESP-r (version 12.0). The same error message was encountered on the two other computers. -Does anyone know if there is a problem with the plantsdb in this version of ESP-r, or how I can fix this problem? I then tried to build the model with an older version, ESP-r version 11.4 with the following Build information: -SVN source: trunk at r2123 (locally modified) -Platform: i86:Linux:2.6.23.1-21.fc7 -Compilers: gcc/g++/g77 In the 11.4 version i was able to open the plantsdb and a list of the available components appeared. The problem I am having with this version is that I am not able to define a sensor that is supposed to sense the temperature difference between a solar collector and a storage tank. (This part was clear in the 12.0 version) Under Controls->Plants and systems-> sensor details-> senses output of a plant component, i chose the solar collector as the "plant component for sensor". I was then asked: "Plant component node for sensor?" and I assumed that because I have a one-node flat plate collector that the answer to this was 1. A followup question appeared: "2nd Plant component index for sensor?". What number/index are they asking for here? I tried to write the index number for the plants database for the tank but it does not seem to work. I also tried with the index of the tank in my plant network file (i.e. the number of the plant component there). When i run the simulation and open results analysis, a warning appears: WARNING in filename.cfg: no chars found for plnt res string in: *splr Does anyone know how to fix either of these two problems? All help is much appreciated! Kind regards, Ragnhild L?ge -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20131031/d53bafbd/attachment.html From cn06arc at leeds.ac.uk Thu Oct 31 14:14:02 2013 From: cn06arc at leeds.ac.uk (Andrew Cowie) Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2013 14:14:02 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] imposed measured data - air flow network compatability Message-ID: Hi all, I have a single room model (essentially) that I'm trying to validate against measured data. I have hourly temperature data for the corridor outside the room, which I have imposed as db temp of an arbitrary zone outside the door (all boundaries adiabatic as I do not care about the thermal performance of this space), and I have set up an air flow network such that the air from the corridor should infiltrate fairly slowly into the functional zone (via a door air flow connection, type 130). However when I run a simulation and look at db temp results, the temperatures of the arbitrary corridor zone do not match the measured data imposed on the zone. So my question is this: is the measured data imposition function compatible with an air flow network (ie. does the air flow node assigned to the corridor zone automatically pick up the imposed temperature data)? If so then why does the db temp in the corridor zone not match the imposed data when I look at results? I have ensured that all air flow nodes are correctly assigned and the measured data is assigned to the correct zone. The corridor zone air flow node is set as a known internal (type 1) with a pressure of +3 Pa. There are no other pressure sources in either zone (all windows fully closed, no hvac). Thanks in anticipation, Andy Cowie From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Thu Oct 31 14:31:20 2013 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2013 14:31:20 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: imposed measured data - air flow network compatability In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Considering the door between the bounding space and the room is this supposed to act as an open door (in case you would want to use a bi-directional flow component) or a slightly open door (ditto but with width much smaller) or cracks under the door? If you are moving air from the bounding space via a fixed pressure where is the make-up air for the bounding zone coming from? Is there a small opening or crack to the outside? How do you know that 3PA is relevant? I would suggest that rather than a fixed pressure you allow the bi-directional component to do the work based on temperature differences. Generate a model contents report and review the air flow and control definitions. You do not mention how, specifically you are setting the conditions in the bounding zone or whether the temperatures in that zone are meant to change at each timestep. In the results analysis you need to look for a number of things: a) zone energy balances in both rooms - you should see some heating/cooling in the bounding zone and if you do not then it is likely that you missed out something in the control. b) look at the flow results and see what is happening at the door. Regards, Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] on behalf of Andrew Cowie [cn06arc at leeds.ac.uk] Sent: 31 October 2013 14:14 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] imposed measured data - air flow network compatability Hi all, I have a single room model (essentially) that I'm trying to validate against measured data. I have hourly temperature data for the corridor outside the room, which I have imposed as db temp of an arbitrary zone outside the door (all boundaries adiabatic as I do not care about the thermal performance of this space), and I have set up an air flow network such that the air from the corridor should infiltrate fairly slowly into the functional zone (via a door air flow connection, type 130). However when I run a simulation and look at db temp results, the temperatures of the arbitrary corridor zone do not match the measured data imposed on the zone. So my question is this: is the measured data imposition function compatible with an air flow network (ie. does the air flow node assigned to the corridor zone automatically pick up the imposed temperature data)? If so then why does the db temp in the corridor zone not match the imposed data when I look at results? I have ensured that all air flow nodes are correctly assigned and the measured data is assigned to the correct zone. The corridor zone air flow node is set as a known internal (type 1) with a pressure of +3 Pa. There are no other pressure sources in either zone (all windows fully closed, no hvac). Thanks in anticipation, Andy Cowie _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From achim.geissler at intergga.ch Thu Oct 31 18:38:03 2013 From: achim.geissler at intergga.ch (Achim Geissler) Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2013 19:38:03 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Problems with plants and controls In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <21D8F29E-F90D-4726-AE9F-40A996AEFA00@intergga.ch> Hi Ragnhild, in regard to the database problem, do you always say "Yes" to the question on re-installing the databases during install? I have had problems with the plant db when not doing this, occasionally. Did the example control file I sent not help? Best Achim On Oct 31, 2013, at 9:40 AM, Ragnhild Haukland L?ge wrote: > Hello, > > I am trying to model a solar heating system for a leisure home in ESP-r. > > At first I tried to build the model in ESP-r version 12.0 with the following Build information: > -SVN source - development_branch at r9412 (unmodified) > -Platform- x86_64:Linux:3.8.0-29-generic > -Compilers- gcc/g++/gfortran > > It seems that the plantsdb is missing. When i choose database maintenance->plant components->browse/edit, no list of plant components appears at all. In the terminal it says 'Error: -mode does not exist', while in the ESP-r window it says 'There are 112 components in plantc.db1'. I tried to open the same database on three different computers using the same version of ESP-r (version 12.0). The same error message was encountered on the two other computers. > > -Does anyone know if there is a problem with the plantsdb in this version of ESP-r, or how I can fix this problem? > > I then tried to build the model with an older version, ESP-r version 11.4 with the following Build information: > -SVN source: trunk at r2123 (locally modified) > -Platform: i86:Linux:2.6.23.1-21.fc7 > -Compilers: gcc/g++/g77 > > In the 11.4 version i was able to open the plantsdb and a list of the available components appeared. The problem I am having with this version is that I am not able to define a sensor that is supposed to sense the temperature difference between a solar collector and a storage tank. (This part was clear in the 12.0 version) > > Under Controls->Plants and systems-> sensor details-> senses output of a plant component, i chose the solar collector as the "plant component for sensor". I was then asked: "Plant component node for sensor?" and I assumed that because I have a one-node flat plate collector that the answer to this was 1. A followup question appeared: "2nd Plant component index for sensor?". What number/index are they asking for here? I tried to write the index number for the plants database for the tank but it does not seem to work. I also tried with the index of the tank in my plant network file (i.e. the number of the plant component there). > When i run the simulation and open results analysis, a warning appears: > WARNING in filename.cfg: no chars found for plnt res string in: *splr > > Does anyone know how to fix either of these two problems? All help is much appreciated! > > Kind regards, > Ragnhild L?ge > > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r achim.geissler at intergga.ch -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20131031/256a76ff/attachment.html From amar.seeam at strath.ac.uk Fri Nov 1 12:41:20 2013 From: amar.seeam at strath.ac.uk (Amar Seeam) Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2013 12:41:20 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Sqlite results output: setup Message-ID: <1383309680.4233.7.camel@eee-neils.eee.strath.ac.uk> Hi all, I have compiled ESP-r with SQlite output and was wondering if there are any examples or documentation on the data structure produced? I am quite comfortable using SQLite through perl, and I am only interested in querying for: Zone Temperature Zone Heating Load Climate Temperature Climate Direct Solar with one minute timesteps (my input is one minute imposed data). Is this possible? And how can this be done ? I have successfully managed to output CSV using input.xml- do I need to do something similar? Thanks in advance. Amar. From Alex.Ferguson at NRCan-RNCan.gc.ca Fri Nov 1 13:45:36 2013 From: Alex.Ferguson at NRCan-RNCan.gc.ca (Ferguson, Alex) Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2013 13:45:36 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Sqlite results output: setup In-Reply-To: <1383309680.4233.7.camel@eee-neils.eee.strath.ac.uk> References: <1383309680.4233.7.camel@eee-neils.eee.strath.ac.uk> Message-ID: <6E91C8562E39DD498E62F5AE4BF7224569B0DDB8@S-BSC-MBX3.nrn.nrcan.gc.ca> Hi Amar, Configuration of sqlite is managed through the input.xml file. You'll need to add db or db to your input.xml. output will appear in a sqlite db file called out.db3. Theres a little more documentation in the src/cetc/h3kreports/H3Kreports_Configuration.txt file. This was working on development branch in spring of 2012. I'm not sure anybody has used it since then --- your mileage may vary. - Alex -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Amar Seeam Sent: November 1, 2013 08:41 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Sqlite results output: setup Hi all, I have compiled ESP-r with SQlite output and was wondering if there are any examples or documentation on the data structure produced? I am quite comfortable using SQLite through perl, and I am only interested in querying for: Zone Temperature Zone Heating Load Climate Temperature Climate Direct Solar with one minute timesteps (my input is one minute imposed data). Is this possible? And how can this be done ? I have successfully managed to output CSV using input.xml- do I need to do something similar? Thanks in advance. Amar. _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk Mon Nov 4 15:59:55 2013 From: A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk (Arianna Sdei) Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2013 15:59:55 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: simulation message - non-convergence of air flow networks In-Reply-To: References: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C121BC3DA881@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> <526677FA.8090703@strath.ac.uk> <2D434A1D-9C58-4FD4-A7A5-240CB835C59E@intergga.ch>, <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C121BC3DB219@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C121BC3DB251@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> Message-ID: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C121BC3DC769@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> Hi Achim, thank you very much for the suggestions. I have replaced "self regulating vent" with cracks and I have replaced "specific air flow door" with specific air flow opening so I don't get the error message anymore. I don't have any control at the moment for these internal doors, does ESP-r assume that the doors are closed? DO I need cracks below doors to make it more realistic? Let me know, thank you. Arianna -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Geissler Achim Sent: 30 October 2013 16:38 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Re: simulation message - non-convergence of air flow networks Hi Arianna, interesting network. I have never used the component type "self regulating vent". In case you still have not resolved your problems, I would start out with replacing these vents by cracks or simply deleting them (if each zone then still has a flow path to exterior). Then try the network again. Depending on how these vents actually work, they may induce flow instabilities in the network. Also, assuming your doors to the hallway are all open, you have huge openings here to a probably limited volume (hallway). "specific air flow door" is, I think, the bi-directional flow component. Again, this configuration may lead to instabilities. Again, you could replace the doors with "cracks beneath closed doors" and try again. When you write you have tried shorter time steps, what time steps do you mean? Ten minutes? Less? Have you tried really short time steps below a minute? When you start a simulation via prj in interactive mode you can toggle the parameters for air flow convergence. In general, the residue parameters are not very strict, however, each time step has only 100 iterations max. If you get the warning each and every time step, then it will probably not help to increase this. If the warning pops up only occasionally, then it may help. If running bps via script, ======= bps -file $CONFIG -mode text > ${RESULTS}.scratch <> ${RESULTS}_convergence-failed.lst echo "===== convergence failure timestep list =======" >> ${RESULTS}_convergence-failed.lst grep "Month $MON" ${RESULTS}.scratch >> ${RESULTS}_convergence-failed.lst echo "===== ================================= =======" >> ${RESULTS}_convergence-failed.lst echo " " >> ${RESULTS}_convergence-failed.lst #rm ${CONFIG}.scratch done ======= to the shell script to generate a report on how often the warning actually occurs. Hope this helps on a bit further. Best, Achim > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk > [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] Im Auftrag von Arianna Sdei > Gesendet: Montag, 28. Oktober 2013 18:29 > An: Jon Hand; Achim Geissler; Aizaz Samuel > Cc: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Betreff: [esp-r] Re: simulation message - non-convergence of air flow > networks > > OK Jon, > > thank you! I have made a clear drawing of my network and I have just > printed out the flow network file in attachment. At the end on the > file there are a series of nul values, do you think that could be the > problem? How can I solve it? Once I have checked that every node and > component has a connection and a flow path to a boundary pressure how > can I check that the iteration convergence control is not too strict? > > Let me know, > > All the best, > > Arianna > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jon Hand [mailto:jon at esru.strath.ac.uk] > Sent: 28 October 2013 16:52 > To: Arianna Sdei; Achim Geissler; Aizaz Samuel > Cc: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Subject: RE: [esp-r] Re: simulation message - non-convergence of air > flow networks > > > It is ALWAYS GOOD to clearly draw (on paper) your flow network with > every name of every entity in the network file shown on your sketch. > Use coloured pens to draw the connections between nodes and components. > > If you are controlling components - like a window - if that is the > only connection between the room and the outside then you should also > have a crack defined between the room node and the boundary node. > > And print the flow network file or the section of the model contents > report related to network flow and control. Go though each item and > each connection and ensure that the sketch and the file is consistent. > > Regards, Jon Hand > > ________________________________________ > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk > [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] on behalf of Arianna Sdei > [A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk] > Sent: 28 October 2013 16:39 > To: Achim Geissler; Aizaz Samuel > Cc: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Subject: [esp-r] Re: simulation message - non-convergence of air flow > networks > > Hi Achim, > > thank you for that! How can I do convergence checking? Is there any > way ESP-r can automatically check if there is a problem with the > airflow network? I have tried with smaller time steps but no change. > Let me know, > > Regards, > Arianna > > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk > [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] > On Behalf Of Achim Geissler > Sent: 27 October 2013 16:47 > To: Aizaz Samuel > Cc: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Subject: [esp-r] Re: simulation message - non-convergence of air flow > networks > > Dear Arianna, > > in addition to the below, it sometimes helps to reduce simulation time > steps (increase number of steps per hour). Also, you can change the > parameters used for convergence checking (either every run manually or in the code and recompile). > > Best > Achim > > > > On Oct 22, 2013, at 9:04 AM, Aizaz Samuel > > wrote: > > > Arianna, > > Somewhere in your model there is mass imbalance that is more than the > tolerance allowed within the solver. Usually happens if you close a > flow path using control (e.g. window closes but air is still being > blown into the room from a fan). I would recommend to check this by > removing control and then running the model. Another way forward is to > make a sketch of the flow network and visually check if a bad flow > path occurs given the constraints of the control you are trying to > impose. A usual solution is to always have a flow path from internal nodes to external ones via small cracks (which is correct for most situations). > > Another (rarer) reason is that you may have two components in series > that have hugely different flow resistances. > > Regards, > Aizaz > > On 22/10/13 12:22, Arianna Sdei wrote: > Dear All, > > I am simulating using an air flow network and while running the > simulation I get the following message: > > Please check (in the following order) that: > -each node has some flow path to a boundary pressure and -iteration > convergence control is not too strict > > Can someone help me to interpret what that means and what should I > look at in the model? Thank you, > > Arianna > > Arianna Sdei > > Research Fellow IFORE (Innovation For Renewal) > > UNIVERSITY OF BRIGHTON > > Moulsecoomb, Lewes Road, Brighton, BN2 4AT > > direct line: 0044 (0)2036747268 > > mobile: 0044 (0)7981739024 > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on > behalf of the University of Brighton. > For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ > ___________________________________________________________ > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > esp-r mailing list > > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > > achim.geissler at intergga.ch > > > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on > behalf of the University of Brighton. > For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ > ___________________________________________________________ > > ___________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on > behalf of the University of Brighton. > For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ > ___________________________________________________________ > > ___________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on > behalf of the University of Brighton. > For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ > ___________________________________________________________ > > ___________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on > behalf of the University of Brighton. > For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ > ___________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ From cheard at correo.cua.uam.mx Mon Nov 4 17:51:42 2013 From: cheard at correo.cua.uam.mx (Christopher Heard) Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2013 11:51:42 -0600 Subject: [esp-r] OS X 10.9 Mavericks - has anyone any experience installing on this system? Message-ID: Having just gone from an early 2008 MBP to a 2013 MBP and updated to Mavericks (OS X 10.9) before putting anything valuable on the system. The question now arises as to: are there any "gotchas" with respect to installing on this system? Christopher Heard UAM-Cuajimalpa Mexico City From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Mon Nov 4 18:35:09 2013 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2013 18:35:09 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: OS X 10.9 Mavericks - has anyone any experience installing on this system? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I can confirm that ESP-r development environment has been proven for OSX 10.8.5 and 10.7.5 via the standard XCode (with command line facilties) as well as the packages available via MacPorts. I cannot confirm that it works with OSX 10.9. I could certainly build a 10.8.5 version and make an archive of it if someone wants to see if it would run under 10.9. Regards, Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] on behalf of Christopher Heard [cheard at correo.cua.uam.mx] Sent: 04 November 2013 17:51 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] OS X 10.9 Mavericks - has anyone any experience installing on this system? Having just gone from an early 2008 MBP to a 2013 MBP and updated to Mavericks (OS X 10.9) before putting anything valuable on the system. The question now arises as to: are there any "gotchas" with respect to installing on this system? Christopher Heard UAM-Cuajimalpa Mexico City _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From jeremy at esru.strath.ac.uk Wed Nov 6 15:24:35 2013 From: jeremy at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jeremy Cockroft) Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2013 15:24:35 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] ESP-r Introductory and Advanced Workshops 11-13 February 2014 Message-ID: <9A4EB5D8394D974488B1804FDEC09FEA0DCE6CCC@EX2010-MBX2.ds.strath.ac.uk> Dear Colleagues, The next Introduction to ESP-r workshops at the University of Strathclyde in Glasgow (map link below) will be held on 11-12 February 2014, with an additional advanced day on 13th February covering topics related to plant systems modelling and simulation. ESP-r is an integrated dynamic modelling tool for the simulation of the thermal performance of buildings and the assessment of their energy use. The system is equipped to model heat, air, moisture and electrical power flows at user determined resolution. It is available at no cost under an Open Source license. More details at http://www.strath.ac.uk/esru ESP-r workshop sessions are designed to give you hands-on simulation experience as well to develop the underlying skills needed to translate design questions into models which deliver new information and insights. The two-day workshop is intended for those new to ESP-r. For those who have recently joined the ESP-r development community, an introductory workshop is a very good way to explore the relationships between the various modules of the ESP-r suite and how they might be impacted by future software developments. The three day workshop covers the same topics as the introductory workshop, plus additional topics on the third day, related to modelling and simulation of HVAC plant systems. LOCATION University Centre 347 Cathedral Street Glasgow G1 2TB Map link: http://www.strath.ac.uk/maps/universitycentre/ PROGRAMME The following topics will be covered in the two day course: ? A brief introduction to simulation and how it differs from simplified models ? Introduction to the ESP-r interface, modules and layout of model folders ? Browsing exemplar models and invoking simulations ? Review of weather data ? Construction materials and optical properties ? Creation of a simple model ? Occupancy and lighting patterns in rooms ? Scheduled infiltration and ventilation in rooms ? Setting up and running simulations, explanation of 'save levels' ? Exploration of building performance ? Exporting data from simulation for use with other tools ? Checking models prior to simulation ? Add shading obstructions to a model and calculate shading patterns ? Ideal environmental controls ? Fine-tune controls and test under-capacity systems ? Increase model resolution and numerical resolution ? Integrated Performance Views ? Planning and creation of a new model ? Creation and presentation of your model The following additional topics will be covered in the three day course: ? Overview of dynamic air flow assessments ? Creation of a simple mass flow network ? Control of flow within a mass flow network ? Representing natural ventilation via a mass flow network ? Overview of plant component based systems ? Add a simple plant system to an existing model ? Explore system performance and controls The workshop will be fast-paced and interactive. Delegates should find a wealth of productive techniques and tips from experts to do simulation quicker, cheaper, and better. The Workshop runs from 9h00 to 17h00 each day. Participants are required to bring their own laptops with ESP-r installed. Further details will be forwarded to registrants. COST & REGISTRATION The cost of attending the two day workshop is ?340, and the three day workshop ?410. Please visit our on-line shop http://onlineshop.strath.ac.uk/browse/extra_info.asp?compid=1&modid=2&deptid=152&catid=46&prodid=283 for registration. Please pass this invitation to others who may be interested. Best regards, Jeremy Cockroft Energy Systems Research Unit University of Strathclyde 347 Cathedral Street, Glasgow G1 2TB phone +44(0)141 548 2314 email jeremy at esru.strath.ac.uk website www. strath.ac.uk/esru The University of Strathclyde is a charitable body, registered in Scotland, with registration number SC015263 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20131106/1cd895fa/attachment-0001.html From dimitrios.sfakianakis at strath.ac.uk Thu Nov 7 15:52:12 2013 From: dimitrios.sfakianakis at strath.ac.uk (Dimitrios Sfakianakis) Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2013 15:52:12 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Font error when installing Esp-r development branch r9524 in Ubuntu 12.04LTS Message-ID: <4388279F55D3434CACAFE7985985B31905511C@EX2010-MBX1.ds.strath.ac.uk> Dear list, I installed the Esp-r development branch revision 9524 in an Ubuntu 12.04 LTS machine (X11 graphics) however when I try to invoke the project manager I get the following error: Display :0.0 doesn?t know font -*helvetica-medium-r*??. I tried installing several free ttf fonts from the software center however that did not solve my problem. Any ideas how to fix my problem? I had a similar problem in the past, however at that time 'lucida' fonts with a length of 39 chars was used and my problem was solved when I replaced 'lucida' with 'helvetica' and '39' with '42'. As I see in r9524, 'helvetica' and '42' are now defaults in /lib/esru_x.c. Kind regards, Dimitrios Sfakianakis MEng Research Assistant, Dept. Naval Architecture and Marine Engineering, University of Strathclyde Kelvin Hydrodynamics Laboratory, Acre Road, Glasgow, G20 0TL T: +44 (0) 141 330 2648 (Ext 2648) M: +44 07514271592 E: dimitrios.sfakianakis at strath.ac.uk The University of Strathclyde is a charitable body, registered in Scotland, with registration number SC015263. From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Thu Nov 7 16:30:06 2013 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2013 16:30:06 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Font error when installing Esp-r development branch r9524 in Ubuntu 12.04LTS In-Reply-To: <4388279F55D3434CACAFE7985985B31905511C@EX2010-MBX1.ds.strath.ac.uk> References: <4388279F55D3434CACAFE7985985B31905511C@EX2010-MBX1.ds.strath.ac.uk> Message-ID: In the source src/manual/OS/Linux are detailed instructions for which packages are needed. (Ubuntu_for_esp-r.rtf) Perhaps you missed out on one of the font packages as well as instructions for rebuilding the list of fonts (actually just reboot usually does it). -Jon ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] on behalf of Dimitrios Sfakianakis [dimitrios.sfakianakis at strath.ac.uk] Sent: 07 November 2013 15:52 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Font error when installing Esp-r development branch r9524 in Ubuntu 12.04LTS Dear list, I installed the Esp-r development branch revision 9524 in an Ubuntu 12.04 LTS machine (X11 graphics) however when I try to invoke the project manager I get the following error: Display :0.0 doesn?t know font -*helvetica-medium-r*??. I tried installing several free ttf fonts from the software center however that did not solve my problem. Any ideas how to fix my problem? I had a similar problem in the past, however at that time 'lucida' fonts with a length of 39 chars was used and my problem was solved when I replaced 'lucida' with 'helvetica' and '39' with '42'. As I see in r9524, 'helvetica' and '42' are now defaults in /lib/esru_x.c. Kind regards, Dimitrios Sfakianakis MEng Research Assistant, Dept. Naval Architecture and Marine Engineering, University of Strathclyde Kelvin Hydrodynamics Laboratory, Acre Road, Glasgow, G20 0TL T: +44 (0) 141 330 2648 (Ext 2648) M: +44 07514271592 E: dimitrios.sfakianakis at strath.ac.uk The University of Strathclyde is a charitable body, registered in Scotland, with registration number SC015263. _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From amar.seeam at strath.ac.uk Fri Nov 8 12:56:06 2013 From: amar.seeam at strath.ac.uk (Amar Seeam) Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2013 12:56:06 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Materials errors Message-ID: <0864B8310DF4074AB966763D3D9C26630DCC9C68@EX2010-MBX2.ds.strath.ac.uk> I recently changed to a Joe Clarke branch to trial Sqlite output I now get this error when I load up a model. I don't think my model uses these materials, and I'm using a locally referenced database as part of the model Duplicate names plastic tile ( 105) vs plastic tile ( 101). Material names must be unique! Duplicate names asphalt ( 118) vs asphalt ( 104). Material names must be unique! Duplicate names Thermalite ( 150) vs Thermalite ( 135). Material names must be unique! Will this issue cause any problems for me? And how can I fix it? Amar. From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Fri Nov 8 14:59:44 2013 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2013 14:59:44 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Materials errors - not if you are using the development_branch Message-ID: The usual source code branch that most people will want to use is the development_branch. The warnings are related to a gradual change from reference to common materials via an index in a database to reference to the name of the material in the database. Some older models will have materials database files which have non-unique materials names. The development branch version will offer to start a text editor so that you can alter one of the material names. And, in general you should not see these messages with the development branch because all of the exemplars and testing models that come with ESP-r have been corrected. Is there a specific reason why you would want to 'borrow' Joe Clarke's branch for doing this test rather than the development_branch? And I just made a new Windows 7 installer for the development_branch version and a 32bit Cygwin installer for those who like that approach. I can send links if anyone is interested. -Jon Hand, ESRU, Glasgow ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] on behalf of Amar Seeam [amar.seeam at strath.ac.uk] Sent: 08 November 2013 12:56 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Materials errors I recently changed to a Joe Clarke branch to trial Sqlite output I now get this error when I load up a model. I don't think my model uses these materials, and I'm using a locally referenced database as part of the model Duplicate names plastic tile ( 105) vs plastic tile ( 101). Material names must be unique! Duplicate names asphalt ( 118) vs asphalt ( 104). Material names must be unique! Duplicate names Thermalite ( 150) vs Thermalite ( 135). Material names must be unique! Will this issue cause any problems for me? And how can I fix it? Amar. _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From manzan at units.it Mon Nov 11 08:50:00 2013 From: manzan at units.it (Marco Manzan) Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2013 09:50 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Font error when installing Esp-r development branch r9524 in Ubuntu 12.04LTS In-Reply-To: <4388279F55D3434CACAFE7985985B31905511C@EX2010-MBX1.ds.strath.ac.uk> References: <4388279F55D3434CACAFE7985985B31905511C@EX2010-MBX1.ds.strath.ac.uk> Message-ID: <1441097.W7YYqSrqsd@udine> In data gioved? 7 novembre 2013 15:52:12, Dimitrios Sfakianakis ha scritto: > Dear list, > > I installed the Esp-r development branch revision 9524 in an Ubuntu 12.04 > LTS machine (X11 graphics) however when I try to invoke the project manager > I get the following error: > > Display :0.0 doesn?t know font -*helvetica-medium-r*??. > > I tried installing several free ttf fonts from the software center however > that did not solve my problem. Any ideas how to fix my problem? > > I had a similar problem in the past, however at that time 'lucida' fonts > with a length of 39 chars was used and my problem was solved when I > replaced 'lucida' with 'helvetica' and '39' with '42'. As I see in r9524, > 'helvetica' and '42' are now defaults in /lib/esru_x.c. > > Kind regards, > > Dimitrios Sfakianakis MEng > Research Assistant, Dept. Naval Architecture and Marine Engineering, > University of Strathclyde Kelvin Hydrodynamics Laboratory, Acre Road, > Glasgow, G20 0TL > T: +44 (0) 141 330 2648 (Ext 2648) > M: +44 07514271592 > E: dimitrios.sfakianakis at strath.ac.uk > The University of Strathclyde is a charitable body, registered in Scotland, > with registration number SC015263. > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r dear Dimitros try following the suggestions of the following link http://root.cern.ch/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=12627 in particular the last post referring to Ubuntu 12.04 Marco -- _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ |Marco Manzan Email: manzan at units.it | |Tel: (+39) 040 5583506 Fax : (+39) 040 572033 | |Dipartimento di Ingegneria e Architettura | |Universita' degli Studi di Trieste | |piazzale Europa 1, 34127 TRIESTE | |_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _| From michael.lucchi at gmail.com Tue Nov 12 15:43:41 2013 From: michael.lucchi at gmail.com (Michael Lucchi) Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2013 16:43:41 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Convection coefficients problem Message-ID: Hello ESP-r users, I?m trying to model a ventilated fa?ade characterized by a forced convection regime using Esp-r (version 12.0 for Windows 7) for my thesis. The model is composed by one single room, and the external facades are ventilated opaque walls. The ventilated fa?ade is composed by three thermal zones, with the aim to obtain the vertical temperature distribution. In order to reach reasonable results, I tried to impose the Fisher and Pedersen correlation for mechanically driven flows both in the room and in the ventilated fa?ades. However, when I run the simulation, a numerical error stops any module. The following text is the error displayed by the simulator: *mzsad 1: numerical error after 93 time-steps.* *(Hour 10 on year day 189).* *e(iconst,n) = -17999998.000000* *a1 = -18000000.0000* I am still a novice user of the software and any help is much appreciated. Kind regards. Michael Lucchi -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20131112/ba265cb0/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Tue Nov 12 17:33:21 2013 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2013 17:33:21 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Convection coefficients problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The first thing that caught my attention is [ventilated facade] and [forced ventilation]. What kind of ventilated facade is this - a rain-screen (in which case there would be low velocity flow). Is the facade actually force ventilated or just ventilated by differences in temperature and thus one might describe it in via a flow network? mzsad is in the matrix solver. There are a few folk who might be able to address that kind of issue. It might be that the Fisher is causing this or perhaps not. I would first explore the use of the [trace] facility in bps - it can write out lots of additional information about the heat transfer correlations. I would suggest that you turn off the Fisher in the 3 ventilated facade zones and see if the model runs. And also - what is happening at 93 time-steps. (Hour 10 on year day 189)? Does the error happen if you run the assessment for a different day? -Jon ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] on behalf of Michael Lucchi [michael.lucchi at gmail.com] Sent: 12 November 2013 15:43 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Convection coefficients problem Hello ESP-r users, I?m trying to model a ventilated fa?ade characterized by a forced convection regime using Esp-r (version 12.0 for Windows 7) for my thesis. The model is composed by one single room, and the external facades are ventilated opaque walls. The ventilated fa?ade is composed by three thermal zones, with the aim to obtain the vertical temperature distribution. In order to reach reasonable results, I tried to impose the Fisher and Pedersen correlation for mechanically driven flows both in the room and in the ventilated fa?ades. However, when I run the simulation, a numerical error stops any module. The following text is the error displayed by the simulator: mzsad 1: numerical error after 93 time-steps. (Hour 10 on year day 189). e(iconst,n) = -17999998.000000 a1 = -18000000.0000 I am still a novice user of the software and any help is much appreciated. Kind regards. Michael Lucchi From A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk Wed Nov 13 20:08:19 2013 From: A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk (Arianna Sdei) Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2013 20:08:19 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] control shading devices Message-ID: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C121BC3E2CFB@BELLATRIX.university.brighton.ac.uk> Dear All, I am starting to model some external shading with ESP-r and I would like to know if there is a version of the code that can control the opening and closing of the devices. I would also like to know if there are ways to model venetian blinds and eventually existing models that use them. Thank you very much in advance! Regards, Arianna Arianna Sdei Research Fellow IFORE (Innovation For Renewal) UNIVERSITY OF BRIGHTON Moulsecoomb, Lewes Road, Brighton, BN2 4AT direct line: 0044 (0)2036747268 mobile: 0044 (0)7981739024 ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20131113/532c9089/attachment.html From achim.geissler at intergga.ch Wed Nov 13 21:35:10 2013 From: achim.geissler at intergga.ch (Achim Geissler) Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2013 22:35:10 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: control shading devices In-Reply-To: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C121BC3E2CFB@BELLATRIX.university.brighton.ac.uk> References: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C121BC3E2CFB@BELLATRIX.university.brighton.ac.uk> Message-ID: <885C750E-6701-4640-A68F-81C6112779F8@intergga.ch> Dear Arianna, probably looking at CFCs and the according test model (in tester) is the best way forward if you want any kind of flexibility with venetian type blinds. I would recommend using development_branch version, as there have recently been great additions to the CFC functionality. For the background and details look for Bart Lomanowskis thesis (which is available online, I think). Best Achim On Nov 13, 2013, at 9:08 PM, Arianna Sdei wrote: > Dear All, > > I am starting to model some external shading with ESP-r and I would like to know if there is a version of the code that can control the opening and closing of the devices. I would also like to know if there are ways to model venetian blinds and eventually existing models that use them. Thank you very much in advance! > > Regards, > > Arianna > > Arianna Sdei > > Research Fellow IFORE (Innovation For Renewal) > > UNIVERSITY OF BRIGHTON > > Moulsecoomb, Lewes Road, Brighton, BN2 4AT > > direct line: 0044 (0)2036747268 > > mobile: 0044 (0)7981739024 > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security > System on behalf of the University of Brighton. > For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ > ___________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r achim.geissler at intergga.ch -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20131113/08785f0e/attachment.html From ragnhild.hl at gmail.com Thu Nov 14 07:59:00 2013 From: ragnhild.hl at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ragnhild_Haukland_L=F8ge?=) Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2013 08:59:00 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Hydronic floor in solar heating system Message-ID: Hello, I am trying to model a solar heating system with a hydronic floor. I have a functioning control file with three components: solar collector, tank and pump. I want to replace the tank with a hydronic floor so the heat from the solar collector is transferred to a layer within the ground floor. I tried to do it in the exact same way as for the tank, only using a hydronic floor, but the model will not simulate. I also tried to set up the plant system so that there is both a tank and a hydronic floor but this did not work either. Does anyone have any experience using the "slab-on grade hydronic floor" or have any suggestions as to what I can do to fix the model? Both control files can be seen in the attachment. Kind Regards Ragnhild L?ge -- Med vennlig hilsen, Ragnhild Haukland L?ge -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: tank and hydronic floor control files Type: application/octet-stream Size: 1202 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20131114/3d309e7f/attachment.obj From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Thu Nov 14 10:49:22 2013 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2013 10:49:22 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Convection coefficients problem In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: This shows the process of debug models. An indication that Fisher correlation might be the cause. This needs to be confirmed that conditions in the facade are suitable for this correlation (velocity might be high??) and it might be that there is another correlation that could be used. There is also an option for the user to define hc coefficient manually - e.g. if you know the velocity is ~1.5m/s then set a schedule of hc coefficients that reflect that velocity within the zone hc defintion. Certainly a short timestep - perhaps 5 minutes down to 1 minute for the building & flow solution. Would be more appropriate for this model. -Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: Michael Lucchi [michael.lucchi at gmail.com] Sent: 14 November 2013 09:34 To: Jon Hand; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: Re: [esp-r] Convection coefficients problem Thank you Jon for the precious suggestions. The facade is connected with a HVAC system and it is a force ventilated facade. However, I also connected the three zone nodes corresponding to the ventilated facade with a flow network in order to simulate the behaviour of the facade when the plant turns off (in this period the mass flow between the three zones is due to only buoyance effects ). Generally, the simulation stops after few time-steps. The only succeded simulation was set up with both zones and plants time-steps of 30 minutes, but with wrong results. Turning off the Fisher correlation and using default correlation, the model runs. Thank you for eventual helps. 2013/11/12 Jon Hand > The first thing that caught my attention is [ventilated facade] and [forced ventilation]. What kind of ventilated facade is this - a rain-screen (in which case there would be low velocity flow). Is the facade actually force ventilated or just ventilated by differences in temperature and thus one might describe it in via a flow network? mzsad is in the matrix solver. There are a few folk who might be able to address that kind of issue. It might be that the Fisher is causing this or perhaps not. I would first explore the use of the [trace] facility in bps - it can write out lots of additional information about the heat transfer correlations. I would suggest that you turn off the Fisher in the 3 ventilated facade zones and see if the model runs. And also - what is happening at 93 time-steps. (Hour 10 on year day 189)? Does the error happen if you run the assessment for a different day? -Jon ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] on behalf of Michael Lucchi [michael.lucchi at gmail.com] Sent: 12 November 2013 15:43 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Convection coefficients problem Hello ESP-r users, I?m trying to model a ventilated fa?ade characterized by a forced convection regime using Esp-r (version 12.0 for Windows 7) for my thesis. The model is composed by one single room, and the external facades are ventilated opaque walls. The ventilated fa?ade is composed by three thermal zones, with the aim to obtain the vertical temperature distribution. In order to reach reasonable results, I tried to impose the Fisher and Pedersen correlation for mechanically driven flows both in the room and in the ventilated fa?ades. However, when I run the simulation, a numerical error stops any module. The following text is the error displayed by the simulator: mzsad 1: numerical error after 93 time-steps. (Hour 10 on year day 189). e(iconst,n) = -17999998.000000 a1 = -18000000.0000 I am still a novice user of the software and any help is much appreciated. Kind regards. Michael Lucchi From michael.lucchi at gmail.com Thu Nov 14 09:34:08 2013 From: michael.lucchi at gmail.com (Michael Lucchi) Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2013 10:34:08 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Convection coefficients problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thank you Jon for the precious suggestions. The facade is connected with a HVAC system and it is a force ventilated facade. However, I also connected the three zone nodes corresponding to the ventilated facade with a flow network in order to simulate the behaviour of the facade when the plant turns off (in this period the mass flow between the three zones is due to only buoyance effects ). Generally, the simulation stops after few time-steps. The only succeded simulation was set up with both zones and plants time-steps of 30 minutes, but with wrong results. Turning off the Fisher correlation and using default correlation, the model runs. Thank you for eventual helps. 2013/11/12 Jon Hand > > The first thing that caught my attention is [ventilated facade] and > [forced ventilation]. What > kind of ventilated facade is this - a rain-screen (in which case there > would be low velocity > flow). Is the facade actually force ventilated or just ventilated by > differences in temperature > and thus one might describe it in via a flow network? > > mzsad is in the matrix solver. There are a few folk who might be able to > address that > kind of issue. It might be that the Fisher is causing this or perhaps > not. I would first > explore the use of the [trace] facility in bps - it can write out lots of > additional information > about the heat transfer correlations. > > I would suggest that you turn off the Fisher in the 3 ventilated facade > zones and see > if the model runs. > > And also - what is happening at 93 time-steps. (Hour 10 on year day 189)? > Does > the error happen if you run the assessment for a different day? > > -Jon > ________________________________________ > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] > on behalf of Michael Lucchi [michael.lucchi at gmail.com] > Sent: 12 November 2013 15:43 > To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Subject: [esp-r] Convection coefficients problem > > Hello ESP-r users, > I?m trying to model a ventilated fa?ade characterized by a forced > convection regime using Esp-r (version 12.0 for Windows 7) for my thesis. > The model is composed by one single room, and the external facades are > ventilated opaque walls. The ventilated fa?ade is composed by three thermal > zones, with the aim to obtain the vertical temperature distribution. In > order to reach reasonable results, I tried to impose the Fisher and > Pedersen correlation for mechanically driven flows both in the room and in > the ventilated fa?ades. However, when I run the simulation, a numerical > error stops any module. The following text is the error displayed by the > simulator: > mzsad 1: numerical error after 93 time-steps. > (Hour 10 on year day 189). > e(iconst,n) = -17999998.000000 > a1 = -18000000.0000 > I am still a novice user of the software and any help is much appreciated. > Kind regards. > Michael Lucchi > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20131114/4b5b3e01/attachment.html From manzan at units.it Thu Nov 14 14:03:33 2013 From: manzan at units.it (Marco Manzan) Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2013 15:03:33 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Hydronic floor in solar heating system In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <10988784.LKt4vKhGS2@udine> In data gioved? 14 novembre 2013 08:59:00, Ragnhild Haukland L?ge ha scritto: > Hello, > > I am trying to model a solar heating system with a hydronic floor. I > have a functioning control file with three components: solar > collector, tank and pump. > > I want to replace the tank with a hydronic floor so the heat from the > solar collector is transferred to a layer within the ground floor. I > tried to do it in the exact same way as for the tank, only using a > hydronic floor, but the model will not simulate. > > I also tried to set up the plant system so that there is both a tank > and a hydronic floor but this did not work either. > > Does anyone have any experience using the "slab-on grade hydronic > floor" or have any suggestions as to what I can do to fix the model? > > Both control files can be seen in the attachment. > > Kind Regards > Ragnhild L?ge dear Ragnhild have you checked the output temperature from the floor? if the difference between the collector temperature and this value is below 5 K the mass flow, according to your file is 0. Marco -- _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ |Marco Manzan Email: manzan at units.it | |Tel: (+39) 040 5583506 Fax : (+39) 040 572033 | |Dipartimento di Ingegneria e Architettura | |Universita' degli Studi di Trieste | |piazzale Europa 1, 34127 TRIESTE | |_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _| From michael.lucchi at gmail.com Thu Nov 14 14:58:58 2013 From: michael.lucchi at gmail.com (Michael Lucchi) Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2013 15:58:58 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Convection coefficients problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I have set manually a schedule of hc coefficients wich reflects the air velocity in the zone: now the model runs correctly! Thank you very much for the precious help. Michael 2013/11/14 Jon Hand > > This shows the process of debug models. An indication that Fisher > correlation might > be the cause. This needs to be confirmed that conditions in the facade > are suitable > for this correlation (velocity might be high??) and it might be that there > is another > correlation that could be used. There is also an option for the user to > define hc > coefficient manually - e.g. if you know the velocity is ~1.5m/s then set a > schedule > of hc coefficients that reflect that velocity within the zone hc defintion. > > Certainly a short timestep - perhaps 5 minutes down to 1 minute for the > building & > flow solution. Would be more appropriate for this model. > > -Jon Hand > ________________________________________ > From: Michael Lucchi [michael.lucchi at gmail.com] > Sent: 14 November 2013 09:34 > To: Jon Hand; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Subject: Re: [esp-r] Convection coefficients problem > > Thank you Jon for the precious suggestions. > > The facade is connected with a HVAC system and it is a force ventilated > facade. However, I also connected the three zone nodes corresponding to the > ventilated facade with a flow network in order to simulate the behaviour of > the facade when the plant turns off (in this period the mass flow between > the three zones is due to only buoyance effects ). Generally, the > simulation stops after few time-steps. The only succeded simulation was > set up with both zones and plants time-steps of 30 minutes, but with wrong > results. > Turning off the Fisher correlation and using default correlation, the > model runs. > > Thank you for eventual helps. > > > 2013/11/12 Jon Hand > > > The first thing that caught my attention is [ventilated facade] and > [forced ventilation]. What > kind of ventilated facade is this - a rain-screen (in which case there > would be low velocity > flow). Is the facade actually force ventilated or just ventilated by > differences in temperature > and thus one might describe it in via a flow network? > > mzsad is in the matrix solver. There are a few folk who might be able to > address that > kind of issue. It might be that the Fisher is causing this or perhaps > not. I would first > explore the use of the [trace] facility in bps - it can write out lots of > additional information > about the heat transfer correlations. > > I would suggest that you turn off the Fisher in the 3 ventilated facade > zones and see > if the model runs. > > And also - what is happening at 93 time-steps. (Hour 10 on year day 189)? > Does > the error happen if you run the assessment for a different day? > > -Jon > ________________________________________ > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk> [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk > ] on behalf of Michael Lucchi [ > michael.lucchi at gmail.com] > Sent: 12 November 2013 15:43 > To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Subject: [esp-r] Convection coefficients problem > > Hello ESP-r users, > I?m trying to model a ventilated fa?ade characterized by a forced > convection regime using Esp-r (version 12.0 for Windows 7) for my thesis. > The model is composed by one single room, and the external facades are > ventilated opaque walls. The ventilated fa?ade is composed by three thermal > zones, with the aim to obtain the vertical temperature distribution. In > order to reach reasonable results, I tried to impose the Fisher and > Pedersen correlation for mechanically driven flows both in the room and in > the ventilated fa?ades. However, when I run the simulation, a numerical > error stops any module. The following text is the error displayed by the > simulator: > mzsad 1: numerical error after 93 time-steps. > (Hour 10 on year day 189). > e(iconst,n) = -17999998.000000 > a1 = -18000000.0000 > I am still a novice user of the software and any help is much appreciated. > Kind regards. > Michael Lucchi > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20131114/16f993e7/attachment.html From surano1505 at hotmail.com Tue Nov 19 21:59:57 2013 From: surano1505 at hotmail.com (HUA SUO) Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2013 05:59:57 +0800 Subject: [esp-r] Thermal confort Message-ID: Hello ,every ne. I am making the thermal comfort assessment. ESP-r says that PMV is Fanger predicted mean vote. PMV* is predicted mean vote based on ET rather then TO. Could you tell me what is ET and TO? Thanks, Suo Hua Ph.D Student in Tecnologia e Progetto per l'Ambiente Costruito/Technology and Design for Environment and Building Il Dipartimento B.E.S.T.Dipartimento di Scienza e Tecnologie dell?Ambiente Costruito/ The Department of Building Environment Science & Technology Politecnico Di Milano Email:hua.suo at mail.polimi.it -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20131120/9cc19267/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Wed Nov 20 11:21:41 2013 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2013 11:21:41 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Thermal confort In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: A question about comfort assessments in ESP-r. To see what is behind what is stated in the report is to look in esrucom/fanger.F (the source code). ~lines 620-680. -Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] on behalf of HUA SUO [surano1505 at hotmail.com] Sent: 19 November 2013 21:59 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Thermal confort Hello ,every ne. I am making the thermal comfort assessment. ESP-r says that PMV is Fanger predicted mean vote. PMV* is predicted mean vote based on ET rather then TO. Could you tell me what is ET and TO? Thanks, Suo Hua Ph.D Student in Tecnologia e Progetto per l'Ambiente Costruito/Technology and Design for Environment and Building Il Dipartimento B.E.S.T.Dipartimento di Scienza e Tecnologie dell?Ambiente Costruito/ The Department of Building Environment Science & Technology Politecnico Di Milano Email:hua.suo at mail.polimi.it From ldegelman at suddenlink.net Wed Nov 20 15:07:01 2013 From: ldegelman at suddenlink.net (ldegelman at suddenlink.net) Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2013 09:07:01 -0600 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Thermal confort In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The quick answer is that ET is ?Effective Temperature?, and is based on a calculation that factors in the air?s dry bulb temperature, air speed, relative humidity and MRT (mean radiant temperature of the surroundings.) The Fanger PMV is calculated according to ISO Standard 7730, and is somewhat complicated. I?m not familiar with the term ?TO?, unless it just means the air temperature or Operative Temperature?? Regards, LOD \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ Larry O. Degelman, PE, FIBPSA, ASHRAE HBDP Professor Emeritus of Architecture Texas A&M University //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// From: HUA SUO Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2013 3:59 PM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Thermal confort Hello ,every ne. I am making the thermal comfort assessment. ESP-r says that PMV is Fanger predicted mean vote. PMV* is predicted mean vote based on ET rather then TO. Could you tell me what is ET and TO? Thanks, Suo Hua Ph.D Student in Tecnologia e Progetto per l'Ambiente Costruito/Technology and Design for Environment and Building Il Dipartimento B.E.S.T.Dipartimento di Scienza e Tecnologie dell?Ambiente Costruito/ The Department of Building Environment Science & Technology Politecnico Di Milano Email:hua.suo at mail.polimi.it -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20131120/c57157be/attachment.html From A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk Fri Nov 22 18:42:41 2013 From: A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk (Arianna Sdei) Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2013 18:42:41 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: control shading devices In-Reply-To: <8D4E0DDC-5436-44F6-9545-DE3498F28BD6@intergga.ch> References: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C121BC3E2CFB@BELLATRIX.university.brighton.ac.uk> <885C750E-6701-4640-A68F-81C6112779F8@intergga.ch> <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C121BC3E501E@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> <8D4E0DDC-5436-44F6-9545-DE3498F28BD6@intergga.ch> Message-ID: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C121BC3E8C4A@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> HI Achim, Yes, thank you very much I am looking into it. DO you know if other types of shading such as roller blinds or insect screen that are in GSLedit have been implemented into ESP-r? I am using a December 2011 version of the source code, do I need to download the most recent version in order to use the additions you were describing? Finally, I would like to model the shading effect of awnings and the opening and closing, what the best way to go along with it do you and anyone else in the ESP-r community think would be? Thank you, Regards Arianna From: Achim Geissler [mailto:achim.geissler at intergga.ch] Sent: 16 November 2013 16:46 To: Arianna Sdei Subject: Re: [esp-r] control shading devices Hi Arianna, have you tried setting up a CFC? As opposed to the traditional transparent surfaces, control of CFCs is set up with menus in prj similar to zone control. Yes, you can open and close (actually raise and lower >or< set slat angle) based on solar radiation on the CFC surface. Best Achim On Nov 14, 2013, at 12:21 PM, Arianna Sdei > wrote: HI Achim, thank you for your suggestion. DO you know if it is possible to control the opening and closing of shading devices depending on the direct solar radiation (kWh/m2)falling on them? Let me know, regards, Arianna From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Achim Geissler Sent: 13 November 2013 21:35 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Club Subject: [esp-r] Re: control shading devices Dear Arianna, probably looking at CFCs and the according test model (in tester) is the best way forward if you want any kind of flexibility with venetian type blinds. I would recommend using development_branch version, as there have recently been great additions to the CFC functionality. For the background and details look for Bart Lomanowskis thesis (which is available online, I think). Best Achim On Nov 13, 2013, at 9:08 PM, Arianna Sdei > wrote: Dear All, I am starting to model some external shading with ESP-r and I would like to know if there is a version of the code that can control the opening and closing of the devices. I would also like to know if there are ways to model venetian blinds and eventually existing models that use them. Thank you very much in advance! Regards, Arianna Arianna Sdei Research Fellow IFORE (Innovation For Renewal) UNIVERSITY OF BRIGHTON Moulsecoomb, Lewes Road, Brighton, BN2 4AT direct line: 0044 (0)2036747268 mobile: 0044 (0)7981739024 ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r achim.geissler at intergga.ch ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ achim.geissler at intergga.ch ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20131122/a9fb7483/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Fri Nov 22 19:15:05 2013 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2013 19:15:05 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: control shading devices In-Reply-To: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C121BC3E8C4A@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> References: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C121BC3E2CFB@BELLATRIX.university.brighton.ac.uk> <885C750E-6701-4640-A68F-81C6112779F8@intergga.ch> <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C121BC3E501E@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> <8D4E0DDC-5436-44F6-9545-DE3498F28BD6@intergga.ch>, <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C121BC3E8C4A@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> Message-ID: Upgrading fromn December 2011 version to current version is going to improve your interactions with ESP-r. Plus it will be much easier to support you if you are working with a current version. If you happen to be working on Windows 7 here is a link to an installer. If you are working on Linux then you can just checkout the development_branch from https://espr.svn.cvsdude.com/esp-r/branches/development_branch and then issue the command: ./Install -d /opt/esru --gcc4 --debug and answer the usual questions (yes to databases and example models). There are detailed instructions in the source manuals/OS folders for different computer types (READ before using Install). -Jon Hand https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/17785121/ESPr_Installers/ESP-r_setup_native_windows_w7_32bit_v12_0_9514.exe ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] on behalf of Arianna Sdei [A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk] Sent: 22 November 2013 18:42 To: Achim Geissler Cc: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Re: control shading devices HI Achim, Yes, thank you very much I am looking into it. DO you know if other types of shading such as roller blinds or insect screen that are in GSLedit have been implemented into ESP-r? I am using a December 2011 version of the source code, do I need to download the most recent version in order to use the additions you were describing? Finally, I would like to model the shading effect of awnings and the opening and closing, what the best way to go along with it do you and anyone else in the ESP-r community think would be? Thank you, Regards Arianna From: Achim Geissler [mailto:achim.geissler at intergga.ch] Sent: 16 November 2013 16:46 To: Arianna Sdei Subject: Re: [esp-r] control shading devices Hi Arianna, have you tried setting up a CFC? As opposed to the traditional transparent surfaces, control of CFCs is set up with menus in prj similar to zone control. Yes, you can open and close (actually raise and lower >or< set slat angle) based on solar radiation on the CFC surface. Best Achim On Nov 14, 2013, at 12:21 PM, Arianna Sdei > wrote: HI Achim, thank you for your suggestion. DO you know if it is possible to control the opening and closing of shading devices depending on the direct solar radiation (kWh/m2)falling on them? Let me know, regards, Arianna From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Achim Geissler Sent: 13 November 2013 21:35 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Club Subject: [esp-r] Re: control shading devices Dear Arianna, probably looking at CFCs and the according test model (in tester) is the best way forward if you want any kind of flexibility with venetian type blinds. I would recommend using development_branch version, as there have recently been great additions to the CFC functionality. For the background and details look for Bart Lomanowskis thesis (which is available online, I think). Best Achim On Nov 13, 2013, at 9:08 PM, Arianna Sdei > wrote: Dear All, I am starting to model some external shading with ESP-r and I would like to know if there is a version of the code that can control the opening and closing of the devices. I would also like to know if there are ways to model venetian blinds and eventually existing models that use them. Thank you very much in advance! Regards, Arianna Arianna Sdei Research Fellow IFORE (Innovation For Renewal) UNIVERSITY OF BRIGHTON Moulsecoomb, Lewes Road, Brighton, BN2 4AT direct line: 0044 (0)2036747268 mobile: 0044 (0)7981739024 ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r achim.geissler at intergga.ch ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ achim.geissler at intergga.ch ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ From achim.geissler at intergga.ch Sat Nov 23 15:54:13 2013 From: achim.geissler at intergga.ch (Achim Geissler) Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2013 16:54:13 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: control shading devices In-Reply-To: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C121BC3E8C4A@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> References: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C121BC3E2CFB@BELLATRIX.university.brighton.ac.uk> <885C750E-6701-4640-A68F-81C6112779F8@intergga.ch> <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C121BC3E501E@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> <8D4E0DDC-5436-44F6-9545-DE3498F28BD6@intergga.ch> <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C121BC3E8C4A@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> Message-ID: <04F9C653-CEAF-4059-A756-54DC4AC2B35A@intergga.ch> Hi Arianna, yes, I would greatly recommend upgrading to the latest development_branch version (all the new CFC features are from "a few weeks ago"). Roller blinds and screens have been added to CFCs. Also, you can now use CFCs without GSLedit. Layers are now (also) available via an ESP-r native database. In regard to awnings, I am not sure about an approach. Hopefully you get some response from others (I seem to recall that somebody in Canada was doing something along those lines some years ago). Best Achim On Nov 22, 2013, at 7:42 PM, Arianna Sdei wrote: > HI Achim, > > Yes, thank you very much I am looking into it. DO you know if other types of shading such as roller blinds or insect screen that are in GSLedit have been implemented into ESP-r? I am using a December 2011 version of the source code, do I need to download the most recent version in order to use the additions you were describing? Finally, I would like to model the shading effect of awnings and the opening and closing, what the best way to go along with it do you and anyone else in the ESP-r community think would be? > > Thank you, > > Regards > > Arianna > > From: Achim Geissler [mailto:achim.geissler at intergga.ch] > Sent: 16 November 2013 16:46 > To: Arianna Sdei > Subject: Re: [esp-r] control shading devices > > Hi Arianna, > > have you tried setting up a CFC? As opposed to the traditional transparent surfaces, control of CFCs is set up with menus in prj similar to zone control. Yes, you can open and close (actually raise and lower >or< set slat angle) based on solar radiation on the CFC surface. > > Best > Achim > > > On Nov 14, 2013, at 12:21 PM, Arianna Sdei wrote: > > > HI Achim, > > thank you for your suggestion. DO you know if it is possible to control the opening and closing of shading devices depending on the direct solar radiation (kWh/m2)falling on them? Let me know, > > regards, > Arianna > > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Achim Geissler > Sent: 13 November 2013 21:35 > To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Club > Subject: [esp-r] Re: control shading devices > > Dear Arianna, > > probably looking at CFCs and the according test model (in tester) is the best way forward if you want any kind of flexibility with venetian type blinds. I would recommend using development_branch version, as there have recently been great additions to the CFC functionality. For the background and details look for Bart Lomanowskis thesis (which is available online, I think). > > Best > Achim > > > > On Nov 13, 2013, at 9:08 PM, Arianna Sdei wrote: > > > > Dear All, > > I am starting to model some external shading with ESP-r and I would like to know if there is a version of the code that can control the opening and closing of the devices. I would also like to know if there are ways to model venetian blinds and eventually existing models that use them. Thank you very much in advance! > > Regards, > > Arianna > > Arianna Sdei > > Research Fellow IFORE (Innovation For Renewal) > > UNIVERSITY OF BRIGHTON > > Moulsecoomb, Lewes Road, Brighton, BN2 4AT > > direct line: 0044 (0)2036747268 > > mobile: 0044 (0)7981739024 > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security > System on behalf of the University of Brighton. > For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ > ___________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > > achim.geissler at intergga.ch > > > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security > System on behalf of the University of Brighton. > For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ > ___________________________________________________________ > > ___________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security > System on behalf of the University of Brighton. > For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ > ___________________________________________________________ > > achim.geissler at intergga.ch > > > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security > System on behalf of the University of Brighton. > For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ > ___________________________________________________________ > > ___________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security > System on behalf of the University of Brighton. > For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ > ___________________________________________________________ achim.geissler at intergga.ch -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20131123/625c53f5/attachment-0001.html From manzan at units.it Mon Nov 25 11:04:50 2013 From: manzan at units.it (Marco Manzan) Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2013 12:04:50 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: control shading devices In-Reply-To: <04F9C653-CEAF-4059-A756-54DC4AC2B35A@intergga.ch> References: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C121BC3E2CFB@BELLATRIX.university.brighton.ac.uk> <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C121BC3E8C4A@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> <04F9C653-CEAF-4059-A756-54DC4AC2B35A@intergga.ch> Message-ID: <173174604.g92DE42lHU@udine> Hi Arianna I think that awnings can be modelled as solar obstructions, there is also a Block opacity value to take into account translucent shadings. Marco In data sabato 23 novembre 2013 16:54:13, Achim Geissler ha scritto: > Hi Arianna, > > yes, I would greatly recommend upgrading to the latest development_branch > version (all the new CFC features are from "a few weeks ago"). Roller > blinds and screens have been added to CFCs. Also, you can now use CFCs > without GSLedit. Layers are now (also) available via an ESP-r native > database. > > In regard to awnings, I am not sure about an approach. Hopefully you get > some response from others (I seem to recall that somebody in Canada was > doing something along those lines some years ago). > > Best > Achim > > On Nov 22, 2013, at 7:42 PM, Arianna Sdei wrote: > > HI Achim, > > > > Yes, thank you very much I am looking into it. DO you know if other types > > of shading such as roller blinds or insect screen that are in GSLedit > > have been implemented into ESP-r? I am using a December 2011 version of > > the source code, do I need to download the most recent version in order > > to use the additions you were describing? Finally, I would like to model > > the shading effect of awnings and the opening and closing, what the best > > way to go along with it do you and anyone else in the ESP-r community > > think would be? > > > > Thank you, > > > > Regards > > > > Arianna > > > > From: Achim Geissler [mailto:achim.geissler at intergga.ch] > > Sent: 16 November 2013 16:46 > > To: Arianna Sdei > > Subject: Re: [esp-r] control shading devices > > > > Hi Arianna, > > > > have you tried setting up a CFC? As opposed to the traditional transparent > > surfaces, control of CFCs is set up with menus in prj similar to zone > > control. Yes, you can open and close (actually raise and lower >or< set > > slat angle) based on solar radiation on the CFC surface. > > > > Best > > Achim > > > > > > On Nov 14, 2013, at 12:21 PM, Arianna Sdei wrote: > > > > > > HI Achim, > > > > thank you for your suggestion. DO you know if it is possible to control > > the opening and closing of shading devices depending on the direct solar > > radiation (kWh/m2)falling on them? Let me know, > > > > regards, > > Arianna > > > > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk > > [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Achim Geissler > > Sent: 13 November 2013 21:35 > > To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Club > > Subject: [esp-r] Re: control shading devices > > > > Dear Arianna, > > > > probably looking at CFCs and the according test model (in tester) is the > > best way forward if you want any kind of flexibility with venetian type > > blinds. I would recommend using development_branch version, as there have > > recently been great additions to the CFC functionality. For the > > background and details look for Bart Lomanowskis thesis (which is > > available online, I think). > > > > Best > > Achim > > > > > > > > On Nov 13, 2013, at 9:08 PM, Arianna Sdei wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > I am starting to model some external shading with ESP-r and I would like > > to know if there is a version of the code that can control the opening > > and closing of the devices. I would also like to know if there are ways > > to model venetian blinds and eventually existing models that use them. > > Thank you very much in advance! > > > > Regards, > > > > Arianna > > > > Arianna Sdei > > > > Research Fellow IFORE (Innovation For Renewal) > > > > UNIVERSITY OF BRIGHTON > > > > Moulsecoomb, Lewes Road, Brighton, BN2 4AT > > > > direct line: 0044 (0)2036747268 > > > > mobile: 0044 (0)7981739024 > > > > > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > > This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security > > System on behalf of the University of Brighton. > > For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ > > ___________________________________________________________ > > _______________________________________________ > > esp-r mailing list > > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > > > > achim.geissler at intergga.ch > > > > > > > > > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > > This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security > > System on behalf of the University of Brighton. > > For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ > > ___________________________________________________________ > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > > This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security > > System on behalf of the University of Brighton. > > For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ > > ___________________________________________________________ > > > > achim.geissler at intergga.ch > > > > > > > > > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > > This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security > > System on behalf of the University of Brighton. > > For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ > > ___________________________________________________________ > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > > This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security > > System on behalf of the University of Brighton. > > For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ > > ___________________________________________________________ > > achim.geissler at intergga.ch -- _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ |Marco Manzan Email: manzan at units.it | |Tel: (+39) 040 5583506 Fax : (+39) 040 572033 | |Dipartimento di Ingegneria e Architettura | |Universita' degli Studi di Trieste | |piazzale Europa 1, 34127 TRIESTE | |_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _| From ragnhild.hl at gmail.com Mon Nov 25 12:16:32 2013 From: ragnhild.hl at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ragnhild_Haukland_L=F8ge?=) Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2013 13:16:32 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] slab-on-grade hydronic floor Message-ID: Hello, I have a simple model of a building with a solar heating system. The solar heating system consists of the following components: -simplified flat plate collector -slab-on-grade hydronic floor -variable speed domestic WCH pump I have the following connections: collector->hydronic floor hydronic floor->pump pump->collector And containments: collector: ambient air hydronic floor: node within a surface: ground floor inserted into node 2 (within a concrete layer) When i run the simulations with and without the plant network, I get the same temperatures inside the building. Hence, it does not seem like the solar heating system is contributing to any heat through the floor into the building zone at all. My question is: Does anyone know if I have to link the plant network in a different way or if I may have overlooked something in order to get the solar heating system to contribute to heat inside the building. Kind regards, Ragnhild L?ge -- Med vennlig hilsen, Ragnhild Haukland L?ge -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20131125/a8ecfd86/attachment.html From monika.hall at fhnw.ch Mon Nov 25 14:00:43 2013 From: monika.hall at fhnw.ch (Hall Monika) Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2013 14:00:43 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: slab-on-grade hydronic floor In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Ragnhild, do you have a plant control loop? When is the pump on/off? Kind regards, Monika ------------------------------------------------------------ Fachhochschule Nordwestschweiz Hochschule f?r Architektur, Bau und Geomatik Institut Energie am Bau Dr. Monika Hall Wissenschaftliche Mitarbeiterin St. Jakobs-Strasse 84 4132 Muttenz ------------------------------------------------------------ T +41 61 467 45 61 F +41 61 467 45 43 monika.hall at fhnw.ch www.fhnw.ch ------------------------------------------------------------ Von: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] Im Auftrag von Ragnhild Haukland L?ge Gesendet: Montag, 25. November 2013 13:17 An: esp-r Betreff: [esp-r] slab-on-grade hydronic floor Hello, I have a simple model of a building with a solar heating system. The solar heating system consists of the following components: -simplified flat plate collector -slab-on-grade hydronic floor -variable speed domestic WCH pump I have the following connections: collector->hydronic floor hydronic floor->pump pump->collector And containments: collector: ambient air hydronic floor: node within a surface: ground floor inserted into node 2 (within a concrete layer) When i run the simulations with and without the plant network, I get the same temperatures inside the building. Hence, it does not seem like the solar heating system is contributing to any heat through the floor into the building zone at all. My question is: Does anyone know if I have to link the plant network in a different way or if I may have overlooked something in order to get the solar heating system to contribute to heat inside the building. Kind regards, Ragnhild L?ge -- Med vennlig hilsen, Ragnhild Haukland L?ge -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20131125/7cdb0f90/attachment.html From aizaz.a.samuel at strath.ac.uk Mon Nov 25 15:27:34 2013 From: aizaz.a.samuel at strath.ac.uk (Aizaz Samuel) Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2013 15:27:34 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: slab-on-grade hydronic floor In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <52936C66.8040303@strath.ac.uk> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20131125/a347f0d5/attachment.html From manzan at units.it Mon Nov 25 16:08:43 2013 From: manzan at units.it (Marco Manzan) Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2013 17:08:43 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: slab-on-grade hydronic floor In-Reply-To: <52936C66.8040303@strath.ac.uk> References: <52936C66.8040303@strath.ac.uk> Message-ID: <2160178.FVdhtx2auP@udine> dear Ragnhild it is not necessary to have a flux connection between zone & plant for a hydronic slab, since the heat input is directly inserted into the slab structure. You have to check the mass flow rate from the flat panel and the temperature of the water. Check also the temperature across the floor structure. first during the simulation with "bps" set Save option to 3 to save node temperatures then when checking the results with "res" check the floor structure temperatures Graph -> Intra-fabric -> Xsection temperatures. Marco Manzan In data luned? 25 novembre 2013 15:27:34, Aizaz Samuel ha scritto: > Ragnhild, > > The building side needs to get heat input/output from the plant side. This > linkage is done via a type 6 ('Flux connection between zone & plant ') > controller from the building side. > > Regards, > Aizaz > > > On 25/11/2013 12:16, Ragnhild Haukland L?ge wrote: > Hello, > > I have a simple model of a building with a solar heating system. The solar > heating system consists of the following components: > > -simplified flat plate collector > -slab-on-grade hydronic floor > -variable speed domestic WCH pump > > I have the following connections: > collector->hydronic floor > hydronic floor->pump > pump->collector > > And containments: > collector: ambient air > hydronic floor: node within a surface: ground floor inserted into node 2 > (within a concrete layer) > > When i run the simulations with and without the plant network, I get the > same temperatures inside the building. Hence, it does not seem like the > solar heating system is contributing to any heat through the floor into the > building zone at all. > > My question is: Does anyone know if I have to link the plant network in a > different way or if I may have overlooked something in order to get the > solar heating system to contribute to heat inside the building. > > Kind regards, > Ragnhild L?ge > > > > -- > Med vennlig hilsen, > > Ragnhild Haukland L?ge > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r -- _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ |Marco Manzan Email: manzan at units.it | |Tel: (+39) 040 5583506 Fax : (+39) 040 572033 | |Dipartimento di Ingegneria e Architettura | |Universita' degli Studi di Trieste | |piazzale Europa 1, 34127 TRIESTE | |_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _| From A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk Thu Nov 28 19:37:27 2013 From: A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk (Arianna Sdei) Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2013 19:37:27 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] air flow network Message-ID: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C121BC3E952D@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> Dear ESP-r community, I am trying to set up an air flow network using the measured air flow rate from pressure tests. To do that I am substituting power law flow components to cracks. I have calculated the coefficient a in the equation : Q = a dP ^b using the measured ACH and I am using b=0.66 but when simulating I get a too high heating load (over 30000 kWh/year for a single storey house) . Does anybody know why this happens and if there is another way to use the measured ACH from the pressure tests to set up the infiltration rate using an air flow network? Thank you Regards, Arianna Arianna Sdei Research Fellow IFORE (Innovation For Renewal) UNIVERSITY OF BRIGHTON Moulsecoomb, Lewes Road, Brighton, BN2 4AT direct line: 0044 (0)2036747268 mobile: 0044 (0)7981739024 ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20131128/28535032/attachment.html From achim.geissler at intergga.ch Thu Nov 28 19:53:09 2013 From: achim.geissler at intergga.ch (Achim Geissler) Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2013 20:53:09 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: air flow network In-Reply-To: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C121BC3E952D@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> References: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C121BC3E952D@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> Message-ID: Hi Arianna, could you give an example with numbers and units for your substitution procedure? What was the ACH at 50 Pa result from the measurement? Do you have consumption data from the obviously existing building? What are the dimensions of the single storey house? At 100 m2 heated area you would end up with 300 kWh/(m2 a) which is a lot but not totally impossible depending on climate, window sizes, insulation standard and leakiness. Sorry to ask so many questions. Best Achim On Nov 28, 2013, at 8:37 PM, Arianna Sdei wrote: > Dear ESP-r community, > > I am trying to set up an air flow network using the measured air flow rate from pressure tests. To do that I am substituting power law flow components to cracks. I have calculated the coefficient a in the equation : Q = a dP ^b using the measured ACH and I am using b=0.66 but when simulating I get a too high heating load (over 30000 kWh/year for a single storey house) . Does anybody know why this happens and if there is another way to use the measured ACH from the pressure tests to set up the infiltration rate using an air flow network? Thank you > > Regards, > > Arianna > > Arianna Sdei > > Research Fellow IFORE (Innovation For Renewal) > > UNIVERSITY OF BRIGHTON > > Moulsecoomb, Lewes Road, Brighton, BN2 4AT > > direct line: 0044 (0)2036747268 > > mobile: 0044 (0)7981739024 > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security > System on behalf of the University of Brighton. > For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ > ___________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r achim.geissler at intergga.ch -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20131128/2e4bdf53/attachment.html From apinto at lnec.pt Thu Nov 28 20:05:52 2013 From: apinto at lnec.pt (apinto at lnec.pt) Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2013 20:05:52 -0000 (WET) Subject: [esp-r] Re: air flow network In-Reply-To: References: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C121BC3E952D@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> Message-ID: <54461.85.245.67.196.1385669152.squirrel@lepus.lnec.pt> Hi, For each facade are you using something like: a= ACH50 x VOL/(50^0.66)/3600/Sum(Afacade) x Afacade i ? To refine the calculation, in each fa?ade you should split ?a? for an upper and lower part. Best Armando > Hi Arianna, > > could you give an example with numbers and units for your substitution > procedure? What was the ACH at 50 Pa result from the measurement? Do you have > consumption data from the obviously existing building? What are the > dimensions of the single storey house? At 100 m2 heated area you would end > up with 300 kWh/(m2 a) which is a lot but not totally impossible depending > on climate, window sizes, insulation standard and leakiness. > > Sorry to ask so many questions. > > Best > Achim > > > On Nov 28, 2013, at 8:37 PM, Arianna Sdei wrote: > >> Dear ESP-r community, >> >> I am trying to set up an air flow network using the measured air flow >> rate from pressure tests. To do that I am substituting power law flow >> components to cracks. I have calculated the coefficient a in the >> equation : Q = a dP ^b using the measured ACH and I am using b=0.66 but >> when simulating I get a too high heating load (over 30000 kWh/year for a >> single storey house) . Does anybody know why this happens and if there >> is another way to use the measured ACH from the pressure tests to set up >> the infiltration rate using an air flow network? Thank you >> >> Regards, >> >> Arianna >> >> Arianna Sdei >> >> Research Fellow IFORE (Innovation For Renewal) >> >> UNIVERSITY OF BRIGHTON >> >> Moulsecoomb, Lewes Road, Brighton, BN2 4AT >> >> direct line: 0044 (0)2036747268 >> >> mobile: 0044 (0)7981739024 >> >> >> >> ___________________________________________________________ >> This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security >> System on behalf of the University of Brighton. >> For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ >> ___________________________________________________________ >> _______________________________________________ >> esp-r mailing list >> esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk >> http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > > achim.geissler at intergga.ch > > > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk Fri Nov 29 12:23:28 2013 From: A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk (Arianna Sdei) Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2013 12:23:28 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: air flow network In-Reply-To: <54461.85.245.67.196.1385669152.squirrel@lepus.lnec.pt> References: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C121BC3E952D@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> <54461.85.245.67.196.1385669152.squirrel@lepus.lnec.pt> Message-ID: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C121BC3E9619@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> Sorry folks, It seems like I was making a small calculation mistake in reading the number of zeros before the constant for the crack. So I have corrected that and the result seems more similar to what I was expecting. Thank you very much for your suggestions and support, I will keep you informed about future modelling challenges. Best, Arianna -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of apinto at lnec.pt Sent: 28 November 2013 20:06 To: Achim Geissler Cc: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Club Subject: [esp-r] Re: air flow network Hi, For each facade are you using something like: a= ACH50 x VOL/(50^0.66)/3600/Sum(Afacade) x Afacade i ? To refine the calculation, in each fa?ade you should split ?a? for an upper and lower part. Best Armando > Hi Arianna, > > could you give an example with numbers and units for your substitution > procedure? What was the ACH at 50 Pa result from the measurement? Do you > have consumption data from the obviously existing building? What are > the dimensions of the single storey house? At 100 m2 heated area you > would end up with 300 kWh/(m2 a) which is a lot but not totally > impossible depending on climate, window sizes, insulation standard and leakiness. > > Sorry to ask so many questions. > > Best > Achim > > > On Nov 28, 2013, at 8:37 PM, Arianna Sdei wrote: > >> Dear ESP-r community, >> >> I am trying to set up an air flow network using the measured air flow >> rate from pressure tests. To do that I am substituting power law flow >> components to cracks. I have calculated the coefficient a in the >> equation : Q = a dP ^b using the measured ACH and I am using b=0.66 >> but when simulating I get a too high heating load (over 30000 >> kWh/year for a single storey house) . Does anybody know why this >> happens and if there is another way to use the measured ACH from the >> pressure tests to set up the infiltration rate using an air flow >> network? Thank you >> >> Regards, >> >> Arianna >> >> Arianna Sdei >> >> Research Fellow IFORE (Innovation For Renewal) >> >> UNIVERSITY OF BRIGHTON >> >> Moulsecoomb, Lewes Road, Brighton, BN2 4AT >> >> direct line: 0044 (0)2036747268 >> >> mobile: 0044 (0)7981739024 >> >> >> >> ___________________________________________________________ >> This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on >> behalf of the University of Brighton. >> For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ >> ___________________________________________________________ >> _______________________________________________ >> esp-r mailing list >> esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk >> http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > > achim.geissler at intergga.ch > > > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ From A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk Fri Nov 29 14:36:39 2013 From: A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk (Arianna Sdei) Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2013 14:36:39 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: air flow network In-Reply-To: <54461.85.245.67.196.1385669152.squirrel@lepus.lnec.pt> References: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C121BC3E952D@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> <54461.85.245.67.196.1385669152.squirrel@lepus.lnec.pt> Message-ID: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C121BC3E9691@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> Hi All, Do you know why if I ask ESP-r to calculate the volume flow rate through the cracks and I average it annually that doesn't correspond to the volume flow rate that I calculate manually using the equation : (Afacade X ACH50 X Vol/sumAfacade)/3600? The manual calculaton gives me actually a higher value, almost double. Do I need to refine the calculation? Or calculate the error? Let me know, Thank you in advance, Best Arianna -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of apinto at lnec.pt Sent: 28 November 2013 20:06 To: Achim Geissler Cc: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Club Subject: [esp-r] Re: air flow network Hi, For each facade are you using something like: a= ACH50 x VOL/(50^0.66)/3600/Sum(Afacade) x Afacade i ? To refine the calculation, in each fa?ade you should split ?a? for an upper and lower part. Best Armando > Hi Arianna, > > could you give an example with numbers and units for your substitution > procedure? What was the ACH at 50 Pa result from the measurement? Do you > have consumption data from the obviously existing building? What are > the dimensions of the single storey house? At 100 m2 heated area you > would end up with 300 kWh/(m2 a) which is a lot but not totally > impossible depending on climate, window sizes, insulation standard and leakiness. > > Sorry to ask so many questions. > > Best > Achim > > > On Nov 28, 2013, at 8:37 PM, Arianna Sdei wrote: > >> Dear ESP-r community, >> >> I am trying to set up an air flow network using the measured air flow >> rate from pressure tests. To do that I am substituting power law flow >> components to cracks. I have calculated the coefficient a in the >> equation : Q = a dP ^b using the measured ACH and I am using b=0.66 >> but when simulating I get a too high heating load (over 30000 >> kWh/year for a single storey house) . Does anybody know why this >> happens and if there is another way to use the measured ACH from the >> pressure tests to set up the infiltration rate using an air flow >> network? Thank you >> >> Regards, >> >> Arianna >> >> Arianna Sdei >> >> Research Fellow IFORE (Innovation For Renewal) >> >> UNIVERSITY OF BRIGHTON >> >> Moulsecoomb, Lewes Road, Brighton, BN2 4AT >> >> direct line: 0044 (0)2036747268 >> >> mobile: 0044 (0)7981739024 >> >> >> >> ___________________________________________________________ >> This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on >> behalf of the University of Brighton. >> For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ >> ___________________________________________________________ >> _______________________________________________ >> esp-r mailing list >> esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk >> http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > > achim.geissler at intergga.ch > > > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Fri Nov 29 14:44:25 2013 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2013 14:44:25 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: air flow network In-Reply-To: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C121BC3E9691@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> References: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C121BC3E952D@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> <54461.85.245.67.196.1385669152.squirrel@lepus.lnec.pt>, <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C121BC3E9691@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> Message-ID: If you are solving air flow via a flow network then the flow rate through a component such as a crack will be related to the driving forces at each simulation time step. So it is correct that the predicted flow through the crack will be different from a static assumption about flow. -Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] on behalf of Arianna Sdei [A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk] Sent: 29 November 2013 14:36 To: apinto at lnec.pt; Achim Geissler Cc: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Club Subject: [esp-r] Re: air flow network Hi All, Do you know why if I ask ESP-r to calculate the volume flow rate through the cracks and I average it annually that doesn't correspond to the volume flow rate that I calculate manually using the equation : (Afacade X ACH50 X Vol/sumAfacade)/3600? The manual calculaton gives me actually a higher value, almost double. Do I need to refine the calculation? Or calculate the error? Let me know, Thank you in advance, Best Arianna -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of apinto at lnec.pt Sent: 28 November 2013 20:06 To: Achim Geissler Cc: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Club Subject: [esp-r] Re: air flow network Hi, For each facade are you using something like: a= ACH50 x VOL/(50^0.66)/3600/Sum(Afacade) x Afacade i ? To refine the calculation, in each fa?ade you should split ?a? for an upper and lower part. Best Armando > Hi Arianna, > > could you give an example with numbers and units for your substitution > procedure? What was the ACH at 50 Pa result from the measurement? Do you > have consumption data from the obviously existing building? What are > the dimensions of the single storey house? At 100 m2 heated area you > would end up with 300 kWh/(m2 a) which is a lot but not totally > impossible depending on climate, window sizes, insulation standard and leakiness. > > Sorry to ask so many questions. > > Best > Achim > > > On Nov 28, 2013, at 8:37 PM, Arianna Sdei wrote: > >> Dear ESP-r community, >> >> I am trying to set up an air flow network using the measured air flow >> rate from pressure tests. To do that I am substituting power law flow >> components to cracks. I have calculated the coefficient a in the >> equation : Q = a dP ^b using the measured ACH and I am using b=0.66 >> but when simulating I get a too high heating load (over 30000 >> kWh/year for a single storey house) . Does anybody know why this >> happens and if there is another way to use the measured ACH from the >> pressure tests to set up the infiltration rate using an air flow >> network? Thank you >> >> Regards, >> >> Arianna >> >> Arianna Sdei >> >> Research Fellow IFORE (Innovation For Renewal) >> >> UNIVERSITY OF BRIGHTON >> >> Moulsecoomb, Lewes Road, Brighton, BN2 4AT >> >> direct line: 0044 (0)2036747268 >> >> mobile: 0044 (0)7981739024 >> >> >> >> ___________________________________________________________ >> This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on >> behalf of the University of Brighton. >> For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ >> ___________________________________________________________ >> _______________________________________________ >> esp-r mailing list >> esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk >> http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > > achim.geissler at intergga.ch > > > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From Alex.Ferguson at NRCan-RNCan.gc.ca Fri Nov 29 14:50:40 2013 From: Alex.Ferguson at NRCan-RNCan.gc.ca (Ferguson, Alex) Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2013 14:50:40 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: air flow network In-Reply-To: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C121BC3E952D@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> References: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C121BC3E952D@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> Message-ID: <6E91C8562E39DD498E62F5AE4BF7224569B4463D@S-BSC-MBX3.nrn.nrcan.gc.ca> Hi Arianna, If your goal is merely to characterize energy loss from infiltration in a single house, you may find the AIM2 model is easier-to-use and more accurate than a flow network. Info on configuration & theoretical basis: https://espr.trac.cvsdude.com/esp-r/wiki/EmpiricalAirInfiltrationModel - Alex From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Arianna Sdei Sent: November 28, 2013 14:37 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] air flow network Dear ESP-r community, I am trying to set up an air flow network using the measured air flow rate from pressure tests. To do that I am substituting power law flow components to cracks. I have calculated the coefficient a in the equation : Q = a dP ^b using the measured ACH and I am using b=0.66 but when simulating I get a too high heating load (over 30000 kWh/year for a single storey house) . Does anybody know why this happens and if there is another way to use the measured ACH from the pressure tests to set up the infiltration rate using an air flow network? Thank you Regards, Arianna Arianna Sdei Research Fellow IFORE (Innovation For Renewal) UNIVERSITY OF BRIGHTON Moulsecoomb, Lewes Road, Brighton, BN2 4AT direct line: 0044 (0)2036747268 mobile: 0044 (0)7981739024 ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20131129/1448c16c/attachment-0001.html From A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk Fri Nov 29 15:04:57 2013 From: A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk (Arianna Sdei) Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2013 15:04:57 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: air flow network In-Reply-To: <6E91C8562E39DD498E62F5AE4BF7224569B4463D@S-BSC-MBX3.nrn.nrcan.gc.ca> References: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C121BC3E952D@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> <6E91C8562E39DD498E62F5AE4BF7224569B4463D@S-BSC-MBX3.nrn.nrcan.gc.ca> Message-ID: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C121BC3E96D1@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> Hi Alex, thank you very much, that sounds very useful, however at the moment I am modelling some end of terrace and mid terrace houses while AIM2 can be used only for detached houses, isn't it? Arianna From: Ferguson, Alex [mailto:Alex.Ferguson at NRCan-RNCan.gc.ca] Sent: 29 November 2013 14:51 To: Arianna Sdei; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: RE: air flow network Hi Arianna, If your goal is merely to characterize energy loss from infiltration in a single house, you may find the AIM2 model is easier-to-use and more accurate than a flow network. Info on configuration & theoretical basis: https://espr.trac.cvsdude.com/esp-r/wiki/EmpiricalAirInfiltrationModel - Alex From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Arianna Sdei Sent: November 28, 2013 14:37 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] air flow network Dear ESP-r community, I am trying to set up an air flow network using the measured air flow rate from pressure tests. To do that I am substituting power law flow components to cracks. I have calculated the coefficient a in the equation : Q = a dP ^b using the measured ACH and I am using b=0.66 but when simulating I get a too high heating load (over 30000 kWh/year for a single storey house) . Does anybody know why this happens and if there is another way to use the measured ACH from the pressure tests to set up the infiltration rate using an air flow network? Thank you Regards, Arianna Arianna Sdei Research Fellow IFORE (Innovation For Renewal) UNIVERSITY OF BRIGHTON Moulsecoomb, Lewes Road, Brighton, BN2 4AT direct line: 0044 (0)2036747268 mobile: 0044 (0)7981739024 ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20131129/2a252e2d/attachment.html From Alex.Ferguson at NRCan-RNCan.gc.ca Fri Nov 29 15:32:54 2013 From: Alex.Ferguson at NRCan-RNCan.gc.ca (Ferguson, Alex) Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2013 15:32:54 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: air flow network In-Reply-To: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C121BC3E96D1@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> References: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C121BC3E952D@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> <6E91C8562E39DD498E62F5AE4BF7224569B4463D@S-BSC-MBX3.nrn.nrcan.gc.ca> <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C121BC3E96D1@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> Message-ID: <6E91C8562E39DD498E62F5AE4BF7224569B4466B@S-BSC-MBX3.nrn.nrcan.gc.ca> Hi Arianna, You can use AIM-2 with attached housing provided the ELA or ACH data has been either a) collected with the entire building depressurized, or b) the leakage values have been adjusted to reflect air movement through party walls. Adjust the 'leakage distribution' in the AIM-2 file as follows: [cid:image001.jpg at 01CEECEE.5BDFAC80] - Alex From: Arianna Sdei [mailto:A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk] Sent: November 29, 2013 10:05 To: Ferguson, Alex; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: RE: air flow network Hi Alex, thank you very much, that sounds very useful, however at the moment I am modelling some end of terrace and mid terrace houses while AIM2 can be used only for detached houses, isn't it? Arianna From: Ferguson, Alex [mailto:Alex.Ferguson at NRCan-RNCan.gc.ca] Sent: 29 November 2013 14:51 To: Arianna Sdei; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: RE: air flow network Hi Arianna, If your goal is merely to characterize energy loss from infiltration in a single house, you may find the AIM2 model is easier-to-use and more accurate than a flow network. Info on configuration & theoretical basis: https://espr.trac.cvsdude.com/esp-r/wiki/EmpiricalAirInfiltrationModel - Alex From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Arianna Sdei Sent: November 28, 2013 14:37 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] air flow network Dear ESP-r community, I am trying to set up an air flow network using the measured air flow rate from pressure tests. To do that I am substituting power law flow components to cracks. I have calculated the coefficient a in the equation : Q = a dP ^b using the measured ACH and I am using b=0.66 but when simulating I get a too high heating load (over 30000 kWh/year for a single storey house) . Does anybody know why this happens and if there is another way to use the measured ACH from the pressure tests to set up the infiltration rate using an air flow network? Thank you Regards, Arianna Arianna Sdei Research Fellow IFORE (Innovation For Renewal) UNIVERSITY OF BRIGHTON Moulsecoomb, Lewes Road, Brighton, BN2 4AT direct line: 0044 (0)2036747268 mobile: 0044 (0)7981739024 ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20131129/8f970269/attachment-0001.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 28898 bytes Desc: image001.jpg Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20131129/8f970269/attachment-0001.jpg From asaee at Dal.Ca Fri Nov 29 14:41:21 2013 From: asaee at Dal.Ca (Rasoul Asaee) Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2013 14:41:21 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Explicit plant losses and containment casual gain Message-ID: Hello, I am modelling a plant which uses stratified tank with HX and an ICE. I am trying to figure out what happens to the losses from the plant, i.e.: 1- Is plant losses considered as casual gain of the zone which contains the plant? 2- how does plant losses affect the temperature of the zone that contains its components? In the attempt to find out more about the energy balances for explicit plant I found that, the file "src/esrubld/Casual.F" computes casual gains for zones. This file calls (line 1097) the "fPltZone_Convective_Gain" function (originally defined in "src/esruplt/Plt_zone_gain_coupling.F") to link the plant losses and its environment. The component losses is handled by "fPltComp_Gains(iComponent, iConvective )" parameter for any of plant components. But, its value is not assigned for explicit plant components. So, I wonder that explicit plant losses to the containment is addressed in ESP-r. Is any other method used to add losses in zone casual gains? Regards, Rasoul -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20131129/11cb6acf/attachment.html From Alex.Ferguson at NRCan-RNCan.gc.ca Fri Nov 29 16:14:57 2013 From: Alex.Ferguson at NRCan-RNCan.gc.ca (Ferguson, Alex) Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2013 16:14:57 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Explicit plant losses and containment casual gain In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6E91C8562E39DD498E62F5AE4BF7224569B4468B@S-BSC-MBX3.nrn.nrcan.gc.ca> Hi Rasoul, The plant-zone gain coupling does indeed address thermal coupling between plants and zones, and as of 5 years ago it was working. To use it, all you need to do is define a type three containment for your plant components, and the facility will automatically assign casual gains to the designated zone --- provided the plant component correctly reports them. And that's the rub: while many plant component models compute containment losses, only a couple actually report these gains to the gain facility --- the water tank model and the Annex 42 fuel cell model. But --- good news --- it's easy to convert a model to support the gain coupling, provided the model already computes its losses to the surroundings. To do so, call the function STORE_PLT_GAIN, as in the following example from Annex42_fuel_cell.F [cid:image001.jpg at 01CEECF4.3C5371C0] There are also other examples in tester/test_suite/plt_zone_heat_gain_coupling that show how the facility works. - Alex From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Rasoul Asaee Sent: November 29, 2013 09:41 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Explicit plant losses and containment casual gain Hello, I am modelling a plant which uses stratified tank with HX and an ICE. I am trying to figure out what happens to the losses from the plant, i.e.: 1- Is plant losses considered as casual gain of the zone which contains the plant? 2- how does plant losses affect the temperature of the zone that contains its components? In the attempt to find out more about the energy balances for explicit plant I found that, the file "src/esrubld/Casual.F" computes casual gains for zones. This file calls (line 1097) the "fPltZone_Convective_Gain" function (originally defined in "src/esruplt/Plt_zone_gain_coupling.F") to link the plant losses and its environment. The component losses is handled by "fPltComp_Gains(iComponent, iConvective )" parameter for any of plant components. But, its value is not assigned for explicit plant components. So, I wonder that explicit plant losses to the containment is addressed in ESP-r. Is any other method used to add losses in zone casual gains? Regards, Rasoul -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20131129/9f29b19b/attachment-0001.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 20171 bytes Desc: image001.jpg Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20131129/9f29b19b/attachment-0001.jpg From asgiroux at uwaterloo.ca Tue Dec 3 14:18:21 2013 From: asgiroux at uwaterloo.ca (Alex Giroux) Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2013 09:18:21 -0500 Subject: [esp-r] Adding HRV to model Message-ID: Hi, I'm looking for information on how to simulate HRVs in ESP-r. I've got a house modelled, and I've run simulations to see what the loads are. I'd like to see how adding an HRV affects the loads on the house. I can't find any specific information about how to go about doing this though. Can I add in an HRV somehow to a model with an idealized plant, similar to the hybrid mechanical/natural ventilation example in ESP-r? That example has the plants to provide mechanical ventilation to the zones set up as separate zones and then I believe there's an airflow network set up between the different zones, but I think I'm missing some files. Thanks in advance. Alex Giroux -- Alexandra Giroux, EIT MASc Student Mechanical Engineering University of Waterloo -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20131203/be9c3925/attachment.html From jeremy at esru.strath.ac.uk Tue Dec 3 15:09:13 2013 From: jeremy at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jeremy Cockroft) Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2013 15:09:13 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Adding HRV to model In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9A4EB5D8394D974488B1804FDEC09FEA0DCF38BD@EX2010-MBX2.ds.strath.ac.uk> Alex, keep it simple, as in this example: If your HRV is 80% efficient, and handles, say 100m3/h, then set your ventilation rate at 20m3/h (as this is all that you require to heat, the balance being recovered by the HRV). You may have infiltration as well, as in your base case, to include. This avoids all that pesky plant simulation. Regards, Jeremy Cockroft From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Alex Giroux Sent: 03 December 2013 14:18 To: esp-r Subject: [esp-r] Adding HRV to model Hi, I'm looking for information on how to simulate HRVs in ESP-r. I've got a house modelled, and I've run simulations to see what the loads are. I'd like to see how adding an HRV affects the loads on the house. I can't find any specific information about how to go about doing this though. Can I add in an HRV somehow to a model with an idealized plant, similar to the hybrid mechanical/natural ventilation example in ESP-r? That example has the plants to provide mechanical ventilation to the zones set up as separate zones and then I believe there's an airflow network set up between the different zones, but I think I'm missing some files. Thanks in advance. Alex Giroux -- Alexandra Giroux, EIT MASc Student Mechanical Engineering University of Waterloo -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20131203/4c0444fa/attachment.html From dimitrios.sfakianakis at strath.ac.uk Tue Dec 3 17:43:55 2013 From: dimitrios.sfakianakis at strath.ac.uk (Dimitrios Sfakianakis) Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2013 17:43:55 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Plant component ideal control In-Reply-To: <4388279F55D3434CACAFE7985985B3190565E9@EX2010-MBX1.ds.strath.ac.uk> References: <4388279F55D3434CACAFE7985985B3190565E9@EX2010-MBX1.ds.strath.ac.uk> Message-ID: <4388279F55D3434CACAFE7985985B31905FC0E@EX2010-MBX1.ds.strath.ac.uk> Dear List, I am currently modelling an HVAC system with air re-circulation using explicit plant component modelling. The system is comprised by the basic components: mixing box, cooler, heater, fan and ducts. At a first stage I am not concerned with modelling the actual control system for the heater and cooler (a PID controller) and want to use an ideal controller much like the BLC01 ideal controller in /esrubld/bcfunc.F in order to calculate the power demand of the components. After going through the available control methodologies for plant components I did not find any controls types that resemble the BLC01. I have tried representing the heater with a thermal zone with an ideal control, connected to the plant network however I notice that if 2 controls are imposed in the same zone, only the second one works. Is there a plant component controller that can keep the temperature of a component at a certain set point by sensing temperature, activating flux and utilising the required amount of energy? If not what would be the best way to model this in Esp-r? Thank you for your time. Kind regards, Dimitrios Sfakianakis MEng Research Assistant, Dept. Naval Architecture and Marine Engineering, University of Strathclyde Kelvin Hydrodynamics Laboratory, Acre Road, Glasgow, G20 0TL T: +44 (0) 141 330 2648 (Ext 2648) M: +44 07514271592 E: dimitrios.sfakianakis at strath.ac.uk The University of Strathclyde is a charitable body, registered in Scotland, with registration number SC015263. From achim.geissler at intergga.ch Tue Dec 3 19:46:04 2013 From: achim.geissler at intergga.ch (Achim Geissler) Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2013 20:46:04 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Plant component ideal control In-Reply-To: <4388279F55D3434CACAFE7985985B31905FC0E@EX2010-MBX1.ds.strath.ac.uk> References: <4388279F55D3434CACAFE7985985B3190565E9@EX2010-MBX1.ds.strath.ac.uk> <4388279F55D3434CACAFE7985985B31905FC0E@EX2010-MBX1.ds.strath.ac.uk> Message-ID: Dear Dimitrios, what you describe should be possible with plant controllers, if I understood correctly. The following * Control loops 12 # senses dry bulb temperature in sf_bed2. 15 0 0 0 0 # sensor # plant component 74:pu_sf_bed2 @ node no. 1 -1 74 1 0 # actuator 1 # all daytypes 1 365 # valid Tue-01-Jan - Tue-31-Dec 5 # No. of periods in day: weekdays 14 0 0.000 # ctl type, law (period off), start @ 0. # No. of data items 0 8 11.000 # ctl type, law (On-Off control.), start @ 7. # No. of data items 1.00000 25.50000 26.50000 0.00800 0.00000 4.00000 0.50000 14 0 14.000 # ctl type, law (period off), start @ 0. # No. of data items 0 8 16.000 # ctl type, law (On-Off control.), start @ 7. # No. of data items 1.00000 25.50000 26.50000 0.00800 0.00000 4.00000 0.50000 14 0 20.000 # ctl type, law (period off), start @ 0. # No. of data items takes a zone temperature and activates a plant pump (zone 15, plant component number 74, in this case). And this * Control loops 13 # senses var in compt. 1:theTank @ node no. 1 -1 1 1 0 0 # sensor # plant component 2:theBoiler @ node no. 1 -1 2 1 0 # actuator 1 # all daytypes 1 365 # valid Tue-01-Jan - Tue-31-Dec 1 # No. of periods in day: weekdays 0 8 0.000 # ctl type, law (On-Off control.), start @ 7. # No. of data items 1.00000 38.00000 40.00000 8900.00000 0.00000 0.00000 0.00000 senses a temperature in a plant component (tank) and activates a boiler with 8.9 kW heating capacity (and tries to keep node 1 of the tank between 38 and 40 degC). To get closer to "ideal", you can give the boiler "limitless" power. The controllers are, of course, "on-off", so not really ideal. I don't know the names of these controllers in the prj menus, though. Maybe the above can help to get some ideas, nonetheless. Best Achim On Dec 3, 2013, at 6:43 PM, Dimitrios Sfakianakis wrote: > Dear List, > > I am currently modelling an HVAC system with air re-circulation using explicit plant component modelling. The system is comprised by the basic components: mixing box, cooler, heater, fan and ducts. At a first stage I am not concerned with modelling the actual control system for the heater and cooler (a PID controller) and want to use an ideal controller much like the BLC01 ideal controller in /esrubld/bcfunc.F in order to calculate the power demand of the components. > > After going through the available control methodologies for plant components I did not find any controls types that resemble the BLC01. I have tried representing the heater with a thermal zone with an ideal control, connected to the plant network however I notice that if 2 controls are imposed in the same zone, only the second one works. > > Is there a plant component controller that can keep the temperature of a component at a certain set point by sensing temperature, activating flux and utilising the required amount of energy? If not what would be the best way to model this in Esp-r? > > Thank you for your time. > > Kind regards, > > Dimitrios Sfakianakis MEng > Research Assistant, Dept. Naval Architecture and Marine Engineering, University of Strathclyde > Kelvin Hydrodynamics Laboratory, Acre Road, Glasgow, G20 0TL > T: +44 (0) 141 330 2648 (Ext 2648) > M: +44 07514271592 > E: dimitrios.sfakianakis at strath.ac.uk > The University of Strathclyde is a charitable body, registered in Scotland, with registration number SC015263. > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > achim.geissler at intergga.ch From A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk Wed Dec 4 13:09:12 2013 From: A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk (Arianna Sdei) Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2013 13:09:12 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] intermittent extract ventilation Message-ID: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C121BC3E9D63@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> Dear All, how would you model intermittent extract ventilation? I cannot find any component in air flow network that looks like an intermittent extract fan. Any idea would be much appreciated. Thank you, regards. Arianna Arianna Sdei Research Fellow IFORE (Innovation For Renewal) UNIVERSITY OF BRIGHTON Moulsecoomb, Lewes Road, Brighton, BN2 4AT direct line: 0044 (0)2036747268 mobile: 0044 (0)7981739024 ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20131204/ffae86b0/attachment.html From cn06arc at leeds.ac.uk Wed Dec 4 13:17:01 2013 From: cn06arc at leeds.ac.uk (Andrew Cowie) Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2013 13:17:01 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: intermittent extract ventilation Message-ID: <949B424E-0C62-4104-8ADB-89A47DD94CDC@leeds.ac.uk> Hi Arriana, Could you not make a standard component intermittent with on/off control? Andy Cowie Sent from my HTC ----- Reply message ----- From: "Arianna Sdei" To: "esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk" Subject: [esp-r] intermittent extract ventilation Date: Wed, Dec 4, 2013 13:11 Dear All, how would you model intermittent extract ventilation? I cannot find any component in air flow network that looks like an intermittent extract fan. Any idea would be much appreciated. Thank you, regards. Arianna Arianna Sdei Research Fellow IFORE (Innovation For Renewal) UNIVERSITY OF BRIGHTON Moulsecoomb, Lewes Road, Brighton, BN2 4AT direct line: 0044 (0)2036747268 mobile: 0044 (0)7981739024 ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ From asgiroux at uwaterloo.ca Thu Dec 5 18:27:47 2013 From: asgiroux at uwaterloo.ca (Alex Giroux) Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2013 13:27:47 -0500 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Adding HRV to model In-Reply-To: <9A4EB5D8394D974488B1804FDEC09FEA0DCF38BD@EX2010-MBX2.ds.strath.ac.uk> References: <9A4EB5D8394D974488B1804FDEC09FEA0DCF38BD@EX2010-MBX2.ds.strath.ac.uk> Message-ID: Thanks for the reply. Unfortunately, simply reducing the air flow isn't going to work. We're looking at both sensible and latent loads within the zone, and reducing the airflow will also reduce the amount of moisture brought in from the outside. I need to find a way to precondition my ventilation air without affecting the amount of moisture being brought into the zone. Right now I'm trying to see if I can set up a second zone in my model as the "plant" - the plant zone will bring in exterior supply air at a given flow rate, heat it, and then the main zone will draw all it's ventilation air directly from the plant zone. If I'm understanding this correctly, I can set up the control loop in the plant zone to provide sensible control only, so the air entering the main zone will have the same humidity ratio as the exterior air. Is this something that anyone has done before? Is there any other way to set up an HRV in ESP-r without explicitly modelling all the heating and cooling equipment within a zone? Thanks. On 3 December 2013 10:09, Jeremy Cockroft wrote: > Alex, keep it simple, as in this example: > > If your HRV is 80% efficient, and handles, say 100m3/h, then set your > ventilation rate at 20m3/h (as this is all that you require to heat, the > balance being recovered by the HRV). You may have infiltration as well, as > in your base case, to include. This avoids all that pesky plant simulation. > > Regards, > > Jeremy Cockroft > > > > *From:* esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto: > esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] *On Behalf Of *Alex Giroux > *Sent:* 03 December 2013 14:18 > *To:* esp-r > *Subject:* [esp-r] Adding HRV to model > > > > Hi, > > I'm looking for information on how to simulate HRVs in ESP-r. > > I've got a house modelled, and I've run simulations to see what the loads > are. I'd like to see how adding an HRV affects the loads on the house. > > I can't find any specific information about how to go about doing this > though. Can I add in an HRV somehow to a model with an idealized plant, > similar to the hybrid mechanical/natural ventilation example in ESP-r? That > example has the plants to provide mechanical ventilation to the zones set > up as separate zones and then I believe there's an airflow network set up > between the different zones, but I think I'm missing some files. > > Thanks in advance. > > > > Alex Giroux > > > -- > Alexandra Giroux, EIT > MASc Student > Mechanical Engineering > University of Waterloo > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20131205/13b317a8/attachment.html From paul at esru.strath.ac.uk Thu Dec 5 21:26:58 2013 From: paul at esru.strath.ac.uk (Paul Strachan) Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2013 21:26:58 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Adding HRV to model In-Reply-To: References: <9A4EB5D8394D974488B1804FDEC09FEA0DCF38BD@EX2010-MBX2.ds.strath.ac.uk>, Message-ID: <912867BE22FCB241AAEC721DD2C3238704828D@EX2010-MBX1.ds.strath.ac.uk> Alex, We had a similar problem when we wanted to have a simple efficiency factor for the HRV, but wanted to have the correct outside CO2 concentration (outside RH in your case) for the supply air. An effective solution was to have two "dummy zones". Suppose the efficiency of your HRV is 80%. Then set up the model so that 80% of the extract from the house goes into dummy zone 1, plus 20% outside air. This means that the temperature of dummy zone 1 will be correct as a supply temperature. Then set up dummy zone 2 with outside air going in and the extract from this zone supplying the house at the 100% level. Set up a control so that the temperature of this dummy zone 2 is equal to the temperature of dummy zone 1. Regards Paul ________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] on behalf of Alex Giroux [asgiroux at uwaterloo.ca] Sent: 05 December 2013 18:27 To: Jeremy Cockroft Cc: esp-r Subject: [esp-r] Re: Adding HRV to model Thanks for the reply. Unfortunately, simply reducing the air flow isn't going to work. We're looking at both sensible and latent loads within the zone, and reducing the airflow will also reduce the amount of moisture brought in from the outside. I need to find a way to precondition my ventilation air without affecting the amount of moisture being brought into the zone. Right now I'm trying to see if I can set up a second zone in my model as the "plant" - the plant zone will bring in exterior supply air at a given flow rate, heat it, and then the main zone will draw all it's ventilation air directly from the plant zone. If I'm understanding this correctly, I can set up the control loop in the plant zone to provide sensible control only, so the air entering the main zone will have the same humidity ratio as the exterior air. Is this something that anyone has done before? Is there any other way to set up an HRV in ESP-r without explicitly modelling all the heating and cooling equipment within a zone? Thanks. On 3 December 2013 10:09, Jeremy Cockroft > wrote: Alex, keep it simple, as in this example: If your HRV is 80% efficient, and handles, say 100m3/h, then set your ventilation rate at 20m3/h (as this is all that you require to heat, the balance being recovered by the HRV). You may have infiltration as well, as in your base case, to include. This avoids all that pesky plant simulation. Regards, Jeremy Cockroft From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Alex Giroux Sent: 03 December 2013 14:18 To: esp-r Subject: [esp-r] Adding HRV to model Hi, I'm looking for information on how to simulate HRVs in ESP-r. I've got a house modelled, and I've run simulations to see what the loads are. I'd like to see how adding an HRV affects the loads on the house. I can't find any specific information about how to go about doing this though. Can I add in an HRV somehow to a model with an idealized plant, similar to the hybrid mechanical/natural ventilation example in ESP-r? That example has the plants to provide mechanical ventilation to the zones set up as separate zones and then I believe there's an airflow network set up between the different zones, but I think I'm missing some files. Thanks in advance. Alex Giroux -- Alexandra Giroux, EIT MASc Student Mechanical Engineering University of Waterloo _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Fri Dec 6 07:15:16 2013 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2013 07:15:16 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Adding HRV to model - exemplar showing different approaches. Message-ID: In a recent development_branch update is a new ESP-r model which explores several different ways of representing MVHR - from the 'reduce infiltration' approach to a plant systems approach via representing the exchanger as a collection of zones with hc coefficients and mass flow network. Look in the folder training/mvhr_representations/cfg/mvhr_testsa.cfg Note: this exemplar does not include the two dummy zone approach mentioned in Paul Strachan's email. -Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] on behalf of Paul Strachan [paul at esru.strath.ac.uk] Sent: 05 December 2013 21:26 To: Alex Giroux; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Re: Adding HRV to model Alex, We had a similar problem when we wanted to have a simple efficiency factor for the HRV, but wanted to have the correct outside CO2 concentration (outside RH in your case) for the supply air. An effective solution was to have two "dummy zones". Suppose the efficiency of your HRV is 80%. Then set up the model so that 80% of the extract from the house goes into dummy zone 1, plus 20% outside air. This means that the temperature of dummy zone 1 will be correct as a supply temperature. Then set up dummy zone 2 with outside air going in and the extract from this zone supplying the house at the 100% level. Set up a control so that the temperature of this dummy zone 2 is equal to the temperature of dummy zone 1. Regards Paul ________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] on behalf of Alex Giroux [asgiroux at uwaterloo.ca] Sent: 05 December 2013 18:27 To: Jeremy Cockroft Cc: esp-r Subject: [esp-r] Re: Adding HRV to model Thanks for the reply. Unfortunately, simply reducing the air flow isn't going to work. We're looking at both sensible and latent loads within the zone, and reducing the airflow will also reduce the amount of moisture brought in from the outside. I need to find a way to precondition my ventilation air without affecting the amount of moisture being brought into the zone. Right now I'm trying to see if I can set up a second zone in my model as the "plant" - the plant zone will bring in exterior supply air at a given flow rate, heat it, and then the main zone will draw all it's ventilation air directly from the plant zone. If I'm understanding this correctly, I can set up the control loop in the plant zone to provide sensible control only, so the air entering the main zone will have the same humidity ratio as the exterior air. Is this something that anyone has done before? Is there any other way to set up an HRV in ESP-r without explicitly modelling all the heating and cooling equipment within a zone? Thanks. On 3 December 2013 10:09, Jeremy Cockroft > wrote: Alex, keep it simple, as in this example: If your HRV is 80% efficient, and handles, say 100m3/h, then set your ventilation rate at 20m3/h (as this is all that you require to heat, the balance being recovered by the HRV). You may have infiltration as well, as in your base case, to include. This avoids all that pesky plant simulation. Regards, Jeremy Cockroft From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Alex Giroux Sent: 03 December 2013 14:18 To: esp-r Subject: [esp-r] Adding HRV to model Hi, I'm looking for information on how to simulate HRVs in ESP-r. I've got a house modelled, and I've run simulations to see what the loads are. I'd like to see how adding an HRV affects the loads on the house. I can't find any specific information about how to go about doing this though. Can I add in an HRV somehow to a model with an idealized plant, similar to the hybrid mechanical/natural ventilation example in ESP-r? That example has the plants to provide mechanical ventilation to the zones set up as separate zones and then I believe there's an airflow network set up between the different zones, but I think I'm missing some files. Thanks in advance. Alex Giroux -- Alexandra Giroux, EIT MASc Student Mechanical Engineering University of Waterloo _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Fri Dec 6 08:04:28 2013 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2013 08:04:28 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: intermittent extract ventilation In-Reply-To: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C121BC3E9D63@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> References: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C121BC3E9D63@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> Message-ID: For many projects where there is not-so-much information about the detailed characteristics of the fan and ducting we represent an extract fan as a constant volume flow component. This can be controlled in many ways e.g. on if the RH is above a specific value. And if just based on time then one could set many short periods on different calendar day types. -Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] on behalf of Arianna Sdei [A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk] Sent: 04 December 2013 13:09 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] intermittent extract ventilation Dear All, how would you model intermittent extract ventilation? I cannot find any component in air flow network that looks like an intermittent extract fan. Any idea would be much appreciated. Thank you, regards. Arianna Arianna Sdei Research Fellow IFORE (Innovation For Renewal) UNIVERSITY OF BRIGHTON Moulsecoomb, Lewes Road, Brighton, BN2 4AT direct line: 0044 (0)2036747268 mobile: 0044 (0)7981739024 ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ From cheard at prodigy.net.mx Wed Dec 11 17:09:10 2013 From: cheard at prodigy.net.mx (Christopher Heard) Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2013 11:09:10 -0600 Subject: [esp-r] Global horizontal solar to diffuse and direct model? Message-ID: Which model does ESP-r use when supplied with met. data that only has global solar radiation on a horizontal plane rather than diffuse and direct normal? Christopher Heard From cheard at prodigy.net.mx Wed Dec 11 19:40:11 2013 From: cheard at prodigy.net.mx (Christopher Heard) Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2013 13:40:11 -0600 Subject: [esp-r] Optical properties for semi-transparent or translucent acrylic? Message-ID: I have been trying to find properties for semi-transparent or translucent acrylic as a glazing material (used in a low cost rural wooden construction in Mexico i.e. self-built with no regard to building standards etc.). Any ideas on the optical properties side? Christopher Heard From Georgios.KOKOGIANNAKIS at nottingham.edu.cn Thu Dec 12 03:23:37 2013 From: Georgios.KOKOGIANNAKIS at nottingham.edu.cn (Georgios KOKOGIANNAKIS) Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2013 11:23:37 +0800 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Global horizontal solar to diffuse and direct model? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3DF95F8960733145B77ECBF9575F5F673C0350EF9C@MBX.nottingham.edu.cn> Hi Christopher, While it is not recommended to approximate the diffuse, especially since you are asking about windows at your other email, however this is a common issue in practice, so ESP-r climate's module can use 3 different models to estimate diffuse from global data. We have documented them in the code, from where I am copying the references: C Subroutine APPRDIFFUSE is used to approximate diffuse C solar radiation data from Global horizontal data based on Muneer's model C See "Solar radiation and daylight models" book from Muneer C (1997) - ISBN: 0-7506-2495-7 pages 101-104. C and Erbs, Klein and Duffie model: see Solar energy Journal Vol. 28, C pp.293-302 C Note: Erbs Klein & Duffie often results in lower diffuse which is C closer to values seen in weather files with direct and diffuse C pre-computed. Maxwell (as described in Muneer) can result in high C diffuse values. Best regards, Georgios ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Christopher Heard [cheard at prodigy.net.mx] Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2013 1:09 AM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Global horizontal solar to diffuse and direct model? Which model does ESP-r use when supplied with met. data that only has global solar radiation on a horizontal plane rather than diffuse and direct normal? Christopher Heard _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it. Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment. Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of The University of Nottingham Ningbo China. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with The University of Nottingham Ningbo China may be monitored as permitted by UK and Chinese legislation. From Georgios.KOKOGIANNAKIS at nottingham.edu.cn Thu Dec 12 03:37:57 2013 From: Georgios.KOKOGIANNAKIS at nottingham.edu.cn (Georgios KOKOGIANNAKIS) Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2013 11:37:57 +0800 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Optical properties for semi-transparent or translucent acrylic? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3DF95F8960733145B77ECBF9575F5F673C034C874E@MBX.nottingham.edu.cn> Hi Christopher, The best source for what you are looking for is in my opinion the glass library inside WINDOW 7.2 (you can download it here: http://windows.lbl.gov/software/window/window.html). You can have a look there to see if you can find the type of glass you are looking for and then extract the angular optical data for ESP-r's optical database. This is straightforward as long as you can find your glass in the database. Best regards, Georgios -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Christopher Heard Sent: 12 December 2013 03:40 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Optical properties for semi-transparent or translucent acrylic? I have been trying to find properties for semi-transparent or translucent acrylic as a glazing material (used in a low cost rural wooden construction in Mexico i.e. self-built with no regard to building standards etc.). Any ideas on the optical properties side? Christopher Heard _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it. Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment. Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of The University of Nottingham Ningbo China. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with The University of Nottingham Ningbo China may be monitored as permitted by UK and Chinese legislation. From dimitrios.sfakianakis at strath.ac.uk Thu Dec 12 19:49:51 2013 From: dimitrios.sfakianakis at strath.ac.uk (Dimitrios Sfakianakis) Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2013 19:49:51 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] bash script, clm module problem Message-ID: <4388279F55D3434CACAFE7985985B3190644F8@EX2010-MBX1.ds.strath.ac.uk> Dear List, I am currently developing a bash script to automate a process. I'm opening the file in text mode and when selecting a different climate file, the clm module opens in a new window (a new command line where clm is in text mode). In this new command line the commands in my script are not executed. Has anyone encountered this problem? Do you know if it's possible to input in this new command window? Here is the script. The problem appears on the 12th line. #!/bin/bash for i in `ls /home/dsfakianakis/Elyros/ClimateFiles/*.clm` do prj -mode text -file Elyros.cfg << XZZ b a b < $i #at this point the clm module open in a new window and I have to manually close it for the script to continue. - y y - - XZZ done Thanks again for the support!! Kind regards, Dimitrios Sfakianakis MEng Research Assistant, Dept. Naval Architecture and Marine Engineering, University of Strathclyde Kelvin Hydrodynamics Laboratory, Acre Road, Glasgow, G20 0TL T: +44 (0) 141 330 2648 (Ext 2648) M: +44 07514271592 E: dimitrios.sfakianakis at strath.ac.uk The University of Strathclyde is a charitable body, registered in Scotland, with registration number SC015263. From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Thu Dec 12 21:57:18 2013 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2013 21:57:18 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: bash script, clm module problem In-Reply-To: <4388279F55D3434CACAFE7985985B3190644F8@EX2010-MBX1.ds.strath.ac.uk> References: <4388279F55D3434CACAFE7985985B3190644F8@EX2010-MBX1.ds.strath.ac.uk> Message-ID: If you just want to alter the name of the weather file held in the model cfg file and do not need to actually open the clm module - newer versions of the project manager provide an option to just select the file and not start the clm module. This should make your automation much easier. So you should update to the latest version of ESP-r either by checking out the current development_branch and compiling it or using a recent installer for Windows. If you need the latter I can provide a link. -Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] on behalf of Dimitrios Sfakianakis [dimitrios.sfakianakis at strath.ac.uk] Sent: 12 December 2013 19:49 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] bash script, clm module problem Dear List, I am currently developing a bash script to automate a process. I'm opening the file in text mode and when selecting a different climate file, the clm module opens in a new window (a new command line where clm is in text mode). In this new command line the commands in my script are not executed. Has anyone encountered this problem? Do you know if it's possible to input in this new command window? Here is the script. The problem appears on the 12th line. #!/bin/bash for i in `ls /home/dsfakianakis/Elyros/ClimateFiles/*.clm` do prj -mode text -file Elyros.cfg << XZZ b a b < $i #at this point the clm module open in a new window and I have to manually close it for the script to continue. - y y - - XZZ done Thanks again for the support!! Kind regards, Dimitrios Sfakianakis MEng Research Assistant, Dept. Naval Architecture and Marine Engineering, University of Strathclyde Kelvin Hydrodynamics Laboratory, Acre Road, Glasgow, G20 0TL T: +44 (0) 141 330 2648 (Ext 2648) M: +44 07514271592 E: dimitrios.sfakianakis at strath.ac.uk The University of Strathclyde is a charitable body, registered in Scotland, with registration number SC015263. _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From grobe at gmx.net Thu Dec 12 23:13:11 2013 From: grobe at gmx.net (Lars O. Grobe) Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2013 00:13:11 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Optical properties for semi-transparent or translucent acrylic? In-Reply-To: <3DF95F8960733145B77ECBF9575F5F673C034C874E@MBX.nottingham.edu.cn> References: <3DF95F8960733145B77ECBF9575F5F673C034C874E@MBX.nottingham.edu.cn> Message-ID: <52AA4307.40204@gmx.net> Hi, the best way to find the optical properties is to get them measured. As the specific characteristic of translucent (non-transparent) materials is the fact that they scatter the transmitted light, this means measuring the Bidirectional Scatterd Distribution Function BSDF. Peter Apian-Bennewitz has set up a collection of samples which he measured using his goniophotometer, including model-fits to the material models built into Radiance: http://www.pab.eu/gonio-photometer/demodata/bme/ This is a very illustrative approach to see the range of optical properties which all fall under the term "translucent". Cheers, Lars. From cn06arc at leeds.ac.uk Thu Dec 12 23:30:45 2013 From: cn06arc at leeds.ac.uk (Andrew Cowie) Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2013 23:30:45 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: bash script, clm module problem Message-ID: <25A21C79-82AF-47E9-860D-6CBF923EEE18@leeds.ac.uk> Hi Dimitrios, I had a very similar problem. Easiest workaround i found was to start the module individually, like this: prj ... < To: "esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk" Subject: [esp-r] bash script, clm module problem Date: Thu, Dec 12, 2013 19:50 Dear List, I am currently developing a bash script to automate a process. I'm opening the file in text mode and when selecting a different climate file, the clm module opens in a new window (a new command line where clm is in text mode). In this new command line the commands in my script are not executed. Has anyone encountered this problem? Do you know if it's possible to input in this new command window? Here is the script. The problem appears on the 12th line. #!/bin/bash for i in `ls /home/dsfakianakis/Elyros/ClimateFiles/*.clm` do prj -mode text -file Elyros.cfg << XZZ b a b < $i #at this point the clm module open in a new window and I have to manually close it for the script to continue. - y y - - XZZ done Thanks again for the support!! Kind regards, Dimitrios Sfakianakis MEng Research Assistant, Dept. Naval Architecture and Marine Engineering, University of Strathclyde Kelvin Hydrodynamics Laboratory, Acre Road, Glasgow, G20 0TL T: +44 (0) 141 330 2648 (Ext 2648) M: +44 07514271592 E: dimitrios.sfakianakis at strath.ac.uk The University of Strathclyde is a charitable body, registered in Scotland, with registration number SC015263. _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From olivier.bounhoure at gmail.com Thu Dec 12 22:16:29 2013 From: olivier.bounhoure at gmail.com (olivier bounhoure) Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2013 23:16:29 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: bash script, clm module problem In-Reply-To: <4388279F55D3434CACAFE7985985B3190644F8@EX2010-MBX1.ds.strath.ac.uk> References: <4388279F55D3434CACAFE7985985B3190644F8@EX2010-MBX1.ds.strath.ac.uk> Message-ID: Dear Dimitrios, The prj module really call a new process where you cannot interact from your main script. I suggest a workaround: hacking the *.cfg file through your bash script. #!/bin/bash for CLIMATE in /home/dsfakianakis/Elyros/ClimateFiles/*.clm do CFG_FILE=Elyros_$( basename $CLIMATE .clm ).cfg sed -e "s#^\*clm .*#*clm $CLIMATE#" < Elyros.cfg > $CFG_FILE done This will create as many *.cfg file as you have *.clm files. You can then play with each of them. I hope you will find this convenient. Best regards, Olivier Bounhoure 2013/12/12 Dimitrios Sfakianakis > Dear List, > > I am currently developing a bash script to automate a process. I'm opening > the file in text mode and when selecting a different climate file, the clm > module opens in a new window (a new command line where clm is in text > mode). In this new command line the commands in my script are not executed. > > Has anyone encountered this problem? Do you know if it's possible to input > in this new command window? > > Here is the script. The problem appears on the 12th line. > > #!/bin/bash > > for i in `ls /home/dsfakianakis/Elyros/ClimateFiles/*.clm` > do > > prj -mode text -file Elyros.cfg << XZZ > b > a > b > < > $i > #at this point the clm module open in a new window and I have to manually > close it for the script to continue. > > - > y > y > - > - > XZZ > > done > > > Thanks again for the support!! > > Kind regards, > > Dimitrios Sfakianakis MEng > Research Assistant, Dept. Naval Architecture and Marine Engineering, > University of Strathclyde > Kelvin Hydrodynamics Laboratory, Acre Road, Glasgow, G20 0TL > T: +44 (0) 141 330 2648 (Ext 2648) > M: +44 07514271592 > E: dimitrios.sfakianakis at strath.ac.uk > The University of Strathclyde is a charitable body, registered in > Scotland, with registration number SC015263. > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20131212/e5ab3687/attachment.html From dimitrios.sfakianakis at strath.ac.uk Fri Dec 13 12:15:08 2013 From: dimitrios.sfakianakis at strath.ac.uk (Dimitrios Sfakianakis) Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2013 12:15:08 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: bash script, clm module problem In-Reply-To: References: <4388279F55D3434CACAFE7985985B3190644F8@EX2010-MBX1.ds.strath.ac.uk>, Message-ID: <4388279F55D3434CACAFE7985985B3190645D9@EX2010-MBX1.ds.strath.ac.uk> Dear all, Thank you all for your replies. @Jon Hand: I updated to the latest development branch version and this is what I noticed: When I select a new climate file that exists in the climatelist file, I get to choose whether I want to open with clm or just use it, which is what I was looking for. However when I select a user defined climate file I don't get to choose the next action and the clm module opens automatically. However, if I open climate file in the climatelist first, choose the "Use it" option and then select the user defined climate file, clm does not open. My guess is that a variable stores whether the clm module opens or not and while the user gets to set this variable when choosing a file from the climate list, he is not offered the choice when selecting a user defined climate file. If that is the case I will search for that variable and default it to "Use it". @Olivier Bounhoure: Your solution seems quite elegant. I was thinking of changing the .cfg file however my scripting capabilities are limited and it would take me some time to figure out how to accomplish that. Thanks a lot! @Andy Cowie: My problem is that once I select a new climate file, clm open automatically in a new command line and it does not accept the commands in the script. I don't want to do anything in clm, I just want to close it! Kind regards, Dimitrios Sfakianakis MEng Research Assistant, Dept. Naval Architecture and Marine Engineering, University of Strathclyde Kelvin Hydrodynamics Laboratory, Acre Road, Glasgow, G20 0TL T: +44 (0) 141 330 2648 (Ext 2648) M: +44 07514271592 E: dimitrios.sfakianakis at strath.ac.uk The University of Strathclyde is a charitable body, registered in Scotland, with registration number SC015263. ________________________________________ From: Jon Hand Sent: 12 December 2013 21:57 To: Dimitrios Sfakianakis; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: RE: bash script, clm module problem If you just want to alter the name of the weather file held in the model cfg file and do not need to actually open the clm module - newer versions of the project manager provide an option to just select the file and not start the clm module. This should make your automation much easier. So you should update to the latest version of ESP-r either by checking out the current development_branch and compiling it or using a recent installer for Windows. If you need the latter I can provide a link. -Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] on behalf of Dimitrios Sfakianakis [dimitrios.sfakianakis at strath.ac.uk] Sent: 12 December 2013 19:49 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] bash script, clm module problem Dear List, I am currently developing a bash script to automate a process. I'm opening the file in text mode and when selecting a different climate file, the clm module opens in a new window (a new command line where clm is in text mode). In this new command line the commands in my script are not executed. Has anyone encountered this problem? Do you know if it's possible to input in this new command window? Here is the script. The problem appears on the 12th line. #!/bin/bash for i in `ls /home/dsfakianakis/Elyros/ClimateFiles/*.clm` do prj -mode text -file Elyros.cfg << XZZ b a b < $i #at this point the clm module open in a new window and I have to manually close it for the script to continue. - y y - - XZZ done Thanks again for the support!! Kind regards, Dimitrios Sfakianakis MEng Research Assistant, Dept. Naval Architecture and Marine Engineering, University of Strathclyde Kelvin Hydrodynamics Laboratory, Acre Road, Glasgow, G20 0TL T: +44 (0) 141 330 2648 (Ext 2648) M: +44 07514271592 E: dimitrios.sfakianakis at strath.ac.uk The University of Strathclyde is a charitable body, registered in Scotland, with registration number SC015263. _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk Fri Dec 13 18:49:56 2013 From: A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk (Arianna Sdei) Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2013 18:49:56 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] open prj Message-ID: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C121BC3EAE6C@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> Dear All, I have just updated ESP-r to the newest version and I have it into cygwin/opt/esru/esp-r. Can you please remind me of what I need to do to get into prj? I can open startxwin but did not succeed in getting into prj so far. Thank you for your great support, Regards Arianna Arianna Sdei Research Fellow IFORE (Innovation For Renewal) UNIVERSITY OF BRIGHTON Moulsecoomb, Lewes Road, Brighton, BN2 4AT direct line: 0044 (0)2036747268 mobile: 0044 (0)7981739024 ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20131213/10c23b70/attachment.html From achim.geissler at intergga.ch Sat Dec 14 21:28:02 2013 From: achim.geissler at intergga.ch (Achim Geissler) Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2013 22:28:02 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: open prj In-Reply-To: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C121BC3EAE6C@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> References: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C121BC3EAE6C@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> Message-ID: Dear Arianna, either you need to add the location to your path variable (enter "set" in a terminal and you will get a report on all settings). Or (preferable, maybe), you can create a symlink for "/usr/esru" to "opt/esru/esp-r" like so (in a cygwin terminal): ln -sf /opt/esru /usr/esru. Your system will then use the esp-r residing in "opt" as if it were in "usr", which is the standard location. Best Achim On Dec 13, 2013, at 7:49 PM, Arianna Sdei wrote: > Dear All, > > I have just updated ESP-r to the newest version and I have it into cygwin/opt/esru/esp-r. Can you please remind me of what I need to do to get into prj? I can open startxwin but did not succeed in getting into prj so far. Thank you for your great support, > > Regards > > Arianna > > Arianna Sdei > > Research Fellow IFORE (Innovation For Renewal) > > UNIVERSITY OF BRIGHTON > > Moulsecoomb, Lewes Road, Brighton, BN2 4AT > > direct line: 0044 (0)2036747268 > > mobile: 0044 (0)7981739024 > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security > System on behalf of the University of Brighton. > For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ > ___________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r achim.geissler at intergga.ch -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20131214/2204560e/attachment.html From wakana-m at ec.hokudai.ac.jp Tue Dec 17 11:00:14 2013 From: wakana-m at ec.hokudai.ac.jp (wakana-m at ec.hokudai.ac.jp) Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 20:00:14 +0900 Subject: [esp-r] Heat exchanger & Desiccant In-Reply-To: <20130218092710.0000369A.0173@ec.hokudai.ac.jp> References: <20130218092710.0000369A.0173@ec.hokudai.ac.jp> Message-ID: <20131217110014.000029DE.0700@ec.hokudai.ac.jp> Dear everyone, Hello. I'd like to simulate the building including heat exchanger. However I don't know how to make heat exchanger model. Could you tell me the making way ? In addition, I also want to make desiccant cooling system module. Is Esp-r including desiccant wheel module? We would really appreciate your advice. Best regards, Wakana Matsumoto From achim.geissler at intergga.ch Wed Dec 18 20:13:29 2013 From: achim.geissler at intergga.ch (Achim Geissler) Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 21:13:29 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Heat exchanger & Desiccant In-Reply-To: <20131217110014.000029DE.0700@ec.hokudai.ac.jp> References: <20130218092710.0000369A.0173@ec.hokudai.ac.jp> <20131217110014.000029DE.0700@ec.hokudai.ac.jp> Message-ID: <28CF2446-3D92-4473-87C2-72458B6FF83A@intergga.ch> Dear Wakana, there was a discussion on heat exchangers very recently. Look for "Adding HRV to model" in the archive. I am not sure if ESP-r has a desiccant wheel module. However, it does have a special material "wet surface", so you may be able to set up a good model. Best Achim On Dec 17, 2013, at 12:00 PM, wakana-m at ec.hokudai.ac.jp wrote: > Dear everyone, > > Hello. > I'd like to simulate the building including heat exchanger. > However I don't know how to make heat exchanger model. > Could you tell me the making way ? > In addition, I also want to make desiccant cooling system module. > Is Esp-r including desiccant wheel module? > We would really appreciate your advice. > > Best regards, > > Wakana Matsumoto > > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > achim.geissler at intergga.ch From wakana-m at ec.hokudai.ac.jp Fri Dec 20 06:00:52 2013 From: wakana-m at ec.hokudai.ac.jp (wakana-m at ec.hokudai.ac.jp) Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2013 15:00:52 +0900 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Heat exchanger & Desiccant In-Reply-To: <28CF2446-3D92-4473-87C2-72458B6FF83A@intergga.ch> References: <20130218092710.0000369A.0173@ec.hokudai.ac.jp> <20131217110014.000029DE.0700@ec.hokudai.ac.jp> <28CF2446-3D92-4473-87C2-72458B6FF83A@intergga.ch> Message-ID: <20131220060052.0000424A.0170@ec.hokudai.ac.jp> Dear Achim, Thank you for your advice. I could make heat exchanger model. Then I'd like to try to making desiccant cooling model. Where is the "wet surface" material in ESP-r? And if we use "wet surface", what can we do ? Best regards, Wakana Matsumoto ----- Original Message ----- > Dear Wakana, > > there was a discussion on heat exchangers very recently. Look for " Adding HRV to model" in the archive. > > I am not sure if ESP-r has a desiccant wheel module. However, it does have a special material "wet surface", so you may be able to set up a good model. > > Best > Achim > > > > On Dec 17, 2013, at 12:00 PM, wakana-m at ec.hokudai.ac.jp wrote: > > > Dear everyone, > > > > Hello. > > I'd like to simulate the building including heat exchanger. > > However I don't know how to make heat exchanger model. > > Could you tell me the making way ? > > In addition, I also want to make desiccant cooling system module. > > Is Esp-r including desiccant wheel module? > > We would really appreciate your advice. > > > > Best regards, > > > > Wakana Matsumoto > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > esp-r mailing list > > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > > > > achim.geissler at intergga.ch > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > From wakana-m at ec.hokudai.ac.jp Fri Dec 20 10:59:31 2013 From: wakana-m at ec.hokudai.ac.jp (wakana-m at ec.hokudai.ac.jp) Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2013 19:59:31 +0900 Subject: [esp-r] plr file Message-ID: <20131220105931.000077AF.0813@ec.hokudai.ac.jp> Dear all, I simulated some system+control exemplar models. (e.g. "rudimentary mechanical ventilation system", "constant volume air conditioning system " etc.) The simulation could run, but when I choose the .plr file in result analysis, the pop-up window was disappeared suddenly. And in the Terminal, some sentence was written as below; "At line 832 of file moplnt.F Fortran runtime error:End of record" When we check the .plr file, should we use other system instead of results analysis, or can we modify some file to read .plr file ? Now I use ubuntu 12.04 LTS 32-bit. Best wishes, Wakana Matsumoto From achim.geissler at fhnw.ch Fri Dec 20 12:18:15 2013 From: achim.geissler at fhnw.ch (Geissler Achim) Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2013 12:18:15 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Heat exchanger & Desiccant In-Reply-To: <20131220060052.0000424A.0170@ec.hokudai.ac.jp> References: <20130218092710.0000369A.0173@ec.hokudai.ac.jp> <20131217110014.000029DE.0700@ec.hokudai.ac.jp> <28CF2446-3D92-4473-87C2-72458B6FF83A@intergga.ch> <20131220060052.0000424A.0170@ec.hokudai.ac.jp> Message-ID: Dear Wakana, you will find the "wet surface" (actually called "evaporating surface") in the special materials data base. In prj I think the corresponding menu item is called "active materials", but I am not sure. A rough description and the default values can be found in mscomp.db2, lines approx. 524 ff. If it is possible to set up a model equivalent of a desiccant wheel with this special material I do not really know. The alternatives would be to check other available plant components and try to "put something together" or, all else failing, write your own plant component and add this to the code. Good luck! Best Achim > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: wakana-m at ec.hokudai.ac.jp [mailto:wakana-m at ec.hokudai.ac.jp] > Gesendet: Freitag, 20. Dezember 2013 07:01 > An: Achim Geissler; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Betreff: Re: [esp-r] Re: Heat exchanger & Desiccant > > Dear Achim, > > Thank you for your advice. > I could make heat exchanger model. > Then I'd like to try to making desiccant cooling model. > Where is the "wet surface" material in ESP-r? > And if we use "wet surface", what can we do ? > > Best regards, > > Wakana Matsumoto > > ----- Original Message ----- > > Dear Wakana, > > > > there was a discussion on heat exchangers very recently. Look for " > Adding HRV to model" in the archive. > > > > I am not sure if ESP-r has a desiccant wheel module. However, it does > have a special material "wet surface", so you may be able to set up a good model. > > > > Best > > Achim > > > > > > > > On Dec 17, 2013, at 12:00 PM, wakana-m at ec.hokudai.ac.jp wrote: > > > > > Dear everyone, > > > > > > Hello. > > > I'd like to simulate the building including heat exchanger. > > > However I don't know how to make heat exchanger model. > > > Could you tell me the making way ? > > > In addition, I also want to make desiccant cooling system module. > > > Is Esp-r including desiccant wheel module? > > > We would really appreciate your advice. > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > Wakana Matsumoto > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > esp-r mailing list > > > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > > > > > > > achim.geissler at intergga.ch > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > esp-r mailing list > > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > > > From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Fri Dec 20 13:42:23 2013 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2013 13:42:23 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: plr file In-Reply-To: <20131220105931.000077AF.0813@ec.hokudai.ac.jp> References: <20131220105931.000077AF.0813@ec.hokudai.ac.jp> Message-ID: The plant results file is a binary access file which the fortran code in the res module knows how to read. Opening the file in an editor might mess up the contents. The error message gives a specific line in the source code. This line in the current development_branch version of ESP-r is related to a dialog asking you to re-specify the name of the plant results file name. Suggestion - move your model folder to a location where the path is shorter. Such as a Models sub-folder of your HOME. Also, go to the folder with the model cfg file and start prj or the simulator bps from that location. ESP-r does not work well if the path to a file has spaces or unprintable characters. And double check that your disk is not full. -Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] on behalf of wakana-m at ec.hokudai.ac.jp [wakana-m at ec.hokudai.ac.jp] Sent: 20 December 2013 10:59 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] plr file Dear all, I simulated some system+control exemplar models. (e.g. "rudimentary mechanical ventilation system", "constant volume air conditioning system " etc.) The simulation could run, but when I choose the .plr file in result analysis, the pop-up window was disappeared suddenly. And in the Terminal, some sentence was written as below; "At line 832 of file moplnt.F Fortran runtime error:End of record" When we check the .plr file, should we use other system instead of results analysis, or can we modify some file to read .plr file ? Now I use ubuntu 12.04 LTS 32-bit. Best wishes, Wakana Matsumoto _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From wakana-m at ec.hokudai.ac.jp Sat Dec 21 02:45:19 2013 From: wakana-m at ec.hokudai.ac.jp (wakana-m at ec.hokudai.ac.jp) Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2013 11:45:19 +0900 Subject: [esp-r] Re: plr file In-Reply-To: References: <20131220105931.000077AF.0813@ec.hokudai.ac.jp> Message-ID: <20131221024519.00003C8E.0485@ec.hokudai.ac.jp> Dear Jon, Thank you for prompt reply. I put my folder on my HOME. Also the simulation result was in HOME. So the path is not so long. And I changed language from Japanese to English. However I couldn't see the plant result using result analysis and the same error was appeared. I can see .res file, but I can't see .plr file in result analysis. In addition, I made other building model including plant component(there is no control system). The building result can be read, but the plant result can't be read( these result file doesn't have any extension). My disk have enough space. How can I resolve this problem ? Best regards, Wakana Matsumoto ----- Original Message ----- > > The plant results file is a binary access file which the fortran code in > the res module knows how to read. Opening the file in an editor might > mess up the contents. > > The error message gives a specific line in the source code. This line > in the current development_branch version of ESP-r is related to a dialog > asking you to re-specify the name of the plant results file name. > > Suggestion - move your model folder to a location where the path is > shorter. Such as a Models sub-folder of your HOME. Also, go to the > folder with the model cfg file and start prj or the simulator bps from that > location. ESP-r does not work well if the path to a file has spaces or > unprintable characters. > > And double check that your disk is not full. > > -Jon Hand > ________________________________________ > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac. uk] on behalf of wakana-m at ec.hokudai.ac.jp [wakana-m at ec.hokudai.ac.jp] > Sent: 20 December 2013 10:59 > To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Subject: [esp-r] plr file > > Dear all, > > I simulated some system+control exemplar models. (e.g. "rudimentary > mechanical ventilation system", "constant volume air conditioning system > " etc.) > The simulation could run, but when I choose the .plr file in result > analysis, the pop-up window was disappeared suddenly. > And in the Terminal, some sentence was written as below; > "At line 832 of file moplnt.F > Fortran runtime error:End of record" > > When we check the .plr file, should we use other system instead of > results analysis, or can we modify some file to read .plr file ? > Now I use ubuntu 12.04 LTS 32-bit. > > Best wishes, > Wakana Matsumoto > > > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > From gulgugul at yahoo.com.tr Wed Dec 25 08:22:47 2013 From: gulgugul at yahoo.com.tr (=?utf-8?B?R8O8bCBOaWhhbCBHw7zEn8O8bA==?=) Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2013 08:22:47 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [esp-r] Results Analysis errors Message-ID: <1387959767.91060.YahooMailNeo@web28702.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Dear All, ? When I try to run "Results Analysis" I got the error" Library is incomplete or corrupt". ? And when I continue I got the error "getallcas:Save option does not allow access to casual gains". ? When I try to graph "zone flux->infiltration", I got the error "GQV1:Save option does not allow access to zone infiltration". ? Can someone help me about this error. Thanks for your time. Best wishes, Gul -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20131225/8feeb39a/attachment.html From A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk Wed Dec 25 15:35:41 2013 From: A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk (Arianna Sdei) Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2013 15:35:41 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] error Message-ID: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C121BC3EB2C5@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> Dear list, there is an error that I am fighting with. I am using the latest version of ESP-r and when I run a simulation I get the following message: single year climate database not yet entered warning: specified climate file (name_of_folder/cfg/.../dbs/climate_file) could not be found. I have checked and the climate file is well into the dbs folder and the correct name is linked in cfg. I can see that the warning seems to suggest that the simulator is looking for the weather file into the cfg folder. Did any of you come across a similar error? Where can I look at to correct it? Thank you , Regards Arianna Arianna Sdei Research Fellow IFORE (Innovation For Renewal) UNIVERSITY OF BRIGHTON Moulsecoomb, Lewes Road, Brighton, BN2 4AT direct line: 0044 (0)2036747268 mobile: 0044 (0)7981739024 ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20131225/17ed0376/attachment.html From achim.geissler at intergga.ch Thu Dec 26 09:42:42 2013 From: achim.geissler at intergga.ch (Achim.geissler) Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2013 10:42:42 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Results Analysis errors Message-ID: Dear Gul, the first message seems to imply that something went wrong with your simulation. Were there any messages in the console window? How large is the results file when compared to what the simulator says before running (simulate interactive)? The second is likely a follow-up error. Best Achim --------- Original-Nachricht -------- Von: G?l Nihal G????l An: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Betreff: [esp-r] Results Analysis errors Datum: 25/12/13 11:27 > Dear All, When I try to run "Results Analysis" I got the error" Library is incomplete or corrupt".  And when I continue I got the error "getallcas:Save option does not allow access to casual gains". When I try to graph "zone flux->infiltration", I got the error "GQV1:Save option does not allow access to zone infiltration". Can someone help me about this error.Thanks for your time.Best wishes,Gul > > > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From achim.geissler at intergga.ch Thu Dec 26 09:46:19 2013 From: achim.geissler at intergga.ch (Achim.geissler) Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2013 10:46:19 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: error Message-ID: <4ee0d2b84e308180eb3d5bc31f9359ce@178.197.236.245> Dear Arianna, how is the climate file entered in the .cfg file? In your error message given below, you have three "." in the path, however a "back one level" is "../", i.e. only two dots. What do you mean by "latest version"? Development_branch? Or current "trunk"? Best Achim --------- Original-Nachricht -------- Von: Arianna Sdei An: Jon Hand , esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Betreff: [esp-r] error Datum: 25/12/13 16:37 > > Dear list, >   > there is an error that I am fighting with. I am using the latest version of ESP-r and when I run a simulation I get the following message: >   > single year climate database not yet entered >   > warning: specified climate file (name_of_folder/cfg/.../dbs/climate_file) could not be found. > >   > I have checked and the climate file is well into the dbs folder and the correct name is linked in cfg. I can see that the warning seems to suggest that the simulator is looking for the weather file into the cfg folder. > >   > Did any of you come across a similar error? Where can I look at to correct it? >   > Thank you , >   > Regards >   > Arianna       >   > Arianna Sdei >   > Research Fellow IFORE (Innovation For Renewal) > >   > UNIVERSITY OF BRIGHTON >   > Moulsecoomb, Lewes Road, Brighton, BN2 4AT >   > direct line: 0044 (0)2036747268 >   > mobile: 0044 (0)7981739024 >   >   > > > ___________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security > System on behalf of the University of Brighton. > For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ > ___________________________________________________________ > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From achim.geissler at intergga.ch Sun Dec 29 12:56:08 2013 From: achim.geissler at intergga.ch (Achim Geissler) Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2013 13:56:08 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: error In-Reply-To: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C121BC3EB56F@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> References: <4ee0d2b84e308180eb3d5bc31f9359ce@178.197.236.245> <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C121BC3EB56F@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> Message-ID: <488BA330-861B-4655-97F6-EEAD5D873CD2@intergga.ch> Dear Arianna, have you tried entering the full path for the climate file? Do you fire up prj (or dbs) from the /cfg folder? The notation "../dbs" only works if the program is running from the cfg folder, as far as I know. I also use (a copy of) development_branch and have not had this issue. I habitually fire up esp-r programs from the cfg-folder, however. I also use the "*clm ../dbs/climate_file" notation. I am not sure what you mean by "the path for model" is "[..]/cfg/../dbs". Is your "name_of_file/cfg" a general notation for "name_of_model/cfg"? Anyway, a path argument can have "../" at the beginning and also in the middle. In console input, in any case. I do not know if this is O.K. for path arguments inside ESP-r, though. At a guess it is probably not a good idea. Best Achim On Dec 29, 2013, at 10:47 AM, Arianna Sdei wrote: > Dear Achim, > > I am using the current development_branch , and the climate file is entered in .cfg as ../dbs/EastMalling_2012 . Weather file is called EastMalling_2012. Sorry I have added one "." by mistake, the message sais actually : name_of_folder/cfg/../dbs/climate_file . When I go into database maintenance the path for model is name_of_file/cfg/../dbs can that be the error? How and where can I change that? Your help is greatly appreciated. Thank you, > > Regards > > Arianna > > -----Original Message----- > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Achim.geissler > Sent: 26 December 2013 09:46 > To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Subject: [esp-r] Re: error > > Dear Arianna, > > how is the climate file entered in the .cfg file? In your error message given below, you have three "." in the path, however a "back one level" is "../", i.e. only two dots. > > What do you mean by "latest version"? Development_branch? Or current "trunk"? > > Best > Achim > > > --------- Original-Nachricht -------- > Von: Arianna Sdei > An: Jon Hand , esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Betreff: [esp-r] error > Datum: 25/12/13 16:37 > >> >> Dear list, >>   >> there is an error that I am fighting with. I am using the latest >> version > of ESP-r and when I run a simulation I get the following message: >>   >> single year climate database not yet entered   >> warning: specified climate file >> (name_of_folder/cfg/.../dbs/climate_file) > could not be found. >> >>   >> I have checked and the climate file is well into the dbs folder and >> the > correct name is linked in cfg. I can see that the warning seems to suggest that the simulator is looking for the weather file into the cfg folder. >> >>   >> Did any of you come across a similar error? Where can I look at to >> correct > it? >>   >> Thank you , >>   >> Regards >>   >> Arianna         Arianna Sdei   >> Research Fellow IFORE (Innovation For Renewal) >> >>   >> UNIVERSITY OF BRIGHTON >>   >> Moulsecoomb, Lewes Road, Brighton, BN2 4AT   direct line: 0044 >> (0)2036747268   >> mobile: 0044 (0)7981739024 >>   >>   >> >> >> ___________________________________________________________ >> This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security >> System on behalf of the University of Brighton. >> For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ >> ___________________________________________________________ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> esp-r mailing list >> esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk >> http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > > ___________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security > System on behalf of the University of Brighton. > For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ > ___________________________________________________________ > > ___________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security > System on behalf of the University of Brighton. > For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ > ___________________________________________________________ > achim.geissler at intergga.ch -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20131229/40071b19/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Tue Dec 31 12:59:58 2013 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2013 12:59:58 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Results Analysis errors In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: To get casual gain information you need to specify how much information gets recorded to file as the simulation runs. In the project manger the menu browse/edit/simulate -> simulation you need to toggle the save level (option f) to 2 or 4. Also notice option [a simulation presets] which allow you to pre-define a number of assumptions about the simulations to be run (start and stop dates, time steps). If ESP-r complains that a results file is corrupt best to remove the results file(s) from the computer and try running the assessment again. Past email messages on this site have also dealt with common problems with running assessments. Also, if you download and read the ESP-r Cookbook (UserGuide) there are chapters about running assessments and interpreting performance data. Regards, Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] on behalf of Achim.geissler [achim.geissler at intergga.ch] Sent: 26 December 2013 09:42 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Re: Results Analysis errors Dear Gul, the first message seems to imply that something went wrong with your simulation. Were there any messages in the console window? How large is the results file when compared to what the simulator says before running (simulate interactive)? The second is likely a follow-up error. Best Achim --------- Original-Nachricht -------- Von: G?l Nihal G????l An: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Betreff: [esp-r] Results Analysis errors Datum: 25/12/13 11:27 > Dear All, When I try to run "Results Analysis" I got the error" Library is incomplete or corrupt".  And when I continue I got the error "getallcas:Save option does not allow access to casual gains". When I try to graph "zone flux->infiltration", I got the error "GQV1:Save option does not allow access to zone infiltration". Can someone help me about this error.Thanks for your time.Best wishes,Gul > > > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r