From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Sat Jan 1 00:27:31 2011 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2011 00:27:31 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: MRT calculation using view factor In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA4130177E98EBFE2@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> There are two separate viewfactors - one set of viewfactors are for the real surfaces in the zone. A 2nd set of viewfactors are between the MRT sensor and the surfaces in the zone. The viewfactors are not 'automatically' calculated. You have to ask for them to be done and sometimes they can take several minutes to calculate. There will be a report after the calculation - read it carefully to see that all surfaces have a summation close to 1.0. You may have to adjust the resolution of the calculation parameters. I will have another look at the text in the Cookbook - the instructions might not be clear enough. Regards, Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of simsera1110 [simsera1110 at gmail.com] Sent: 28 December 2010 05:21 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] MRT calculation using view factor Hi I have tried to calculate Mean Radiant Temperature depending on window surface temperature that is related PMV. I installed MRT sensor and calculated view factors. ( I am wondering if view factor is used for calculating MRT and view factor is calculated automatically) Anyway, after that, I did simulation. but MRT didn't be calculated........PMV was calculated. Do i install something like radiant panel on the ceiling ?? I red ESP-r COOKBOOK(2 december 2010) "radiation view factors" or are there other options to set up for calculating MRT?? And Is there another way to calculate MRT ?? I really want to know. Please give me a advice. Thank you. From A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk Sun Jan 2 19:17:40 2011 From: A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk (A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk) Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2011 19:17:40 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] simulation Message-ID: <19975A316C67744D9720DD2F6AB1FC660B3DABC6@EXCHANGE1.university.brighton.ac.uk> Dear All, I have started a new model for the houses I am retrofitting. I need to know heating and cooling load (overheating risk) as well as delivered energy (comprising hot water and electricity) and primary energy (if possible) for the houses as they are before the retrofitting. The model works and I am starting to run the first simulations, and I have a few questions. Do I need to establish an ideal control loop in order to know what the heating load is with ESP? Is there a way with ESP-r to establish set points temperature so to have heating and cooling loads without establish a control loop? Can I get the heat loss coefficient for the building structure (independent of set point temperature and degree days) by simulating the model on a free float base? If so, is there by using the energy balance function in the res tool? I hope you will be able to answer my questions so I will be clearer on the approach to take in my modelling and simulating. Thank you in advance. Kind regards, Arianna ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ From koji_takemasa at me.com Mon Jan 3 08:28:14 2011 From: koji_takemasa at me.com (=?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCSXBALxsoQiAbJEI5JzwjGyhC?=) Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2011 08:28:14 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [esp-r] Bug? Message-ID: <6b992aa1-a1ee-e846-b526-d77412fbdfb2@me.com> Happy new year. I compile and am using ESP-r11.10 with amd64 of Ubuntu10.10. It is displayed as shown in figure that the value of the displayed initialization appended. Is this a bug? er01.png ? er02.png ----- Name : Koji Takemasa E-mail : koji_takemasa at mac.com URL : http://web.me.com/koji_takemasa/MobileMe/LEAD_Project.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110103/585cce99/attachment-0001.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: er01.png Type: image/png Size: 9598 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110103/585cce99/attachment-0002.png -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: er02.png Type: image/png Size: 10030 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110103/585cce99/attachment-0003.png From achim.geissler at intergga.ch Mon Jan 3 11:57:00 2011 From: achim.geissler at intergga.ch (Achim.geissler) Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2011 12:57:00 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: simulation Message-ID: <65dad0abb46c2d0a1e0a3f08509b3261@212.203.77.242> Hi Arianna ? here some ideas and thoughts to your questions below. ? > I have started a new model for the houses I am retrofitting. I need to > know heating and cooling load (overheating risk) as well as delivered > energy (comprising hot water and electricity) and primary energy (if > possible) for the houses as they are before the retrofitting. The model > works and I am starting to run the first simulations, and I have a few > questions. Do I need to establish an ideal control loop in order to > know > what the heating load is with ESP? Is there a way with ESP-r to > establish set points temperature so to have heating and cooling loads > without establish a control loop? ? As far as I am aware, you need to set up a simple (building) control loop. An ideal controller for heating and cooling with appropriate setpoints should suffice, initially. How many zones do you have? The setup of such a control is fairly straight-forward via the project manager. Also, most exemplars have at least heating defined. ? > Can I get the heat loss coefficient > for the building structure (independent of set point temperature and > degree days) by simulating the model on a free float base? If so, is > there by using the energy balance function in the res tool? ? Not quite clear, what you mean, here. Have you written (and printed and checked) the QA report available? In this, the U-values and average UA values for the constructions are given for each zone. I don't think you can extract the heat loss coefficient by running the building free-float in any direct way. The heat storage in constructions will get in the way. If, however, you defined a climate with constant outside temperature (e.g. 0?C) and an ideal control for the zone(s) (e.g. 20 ?C) and ran this to "static" conditions (i.e. no fluctuations of temperatures in the system), you could then calculate your average UA for the zone(s). ? Best Achim ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110103/b852f4ee/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Mon Jan 3 12:03:05 2011 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2011 12:03:05 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Bug? In-Reply-To: <6b992aa1-a1ee-e846-b526-d77412fbdfb2@me.com> References: <6b992aa1-a1ee-e846-b526-d77412fbdfb2@me.com> Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA4130177E98EBFE5@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> The image shows two impossible months in a dialog. This looks like a 64 bit conversion issue - the fortran is passing some values to the C dialog box and the values look like they have been corrupted. The other possibility is that the localle in the model is set to a place which uses a comma rather than a 'dot' as a decimal place. On other possibility is that you need to issue a 'make clean' and recompile or that the command line parameters used in the Install were no appropriate. ESP-r has been used with older versions of Ubuntu and 64 bit. Are there any other dialogues which have strange numbers in them? Do other facilities in ESP-r work as expected? Lets start which checking the version of the compilers are you using (give commands gcc --version and g++ --version and gfortran --version. Then please say what the Install command was. Regards, Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of ?? ?? [koji_takemasa at me.com] Sent: 03 January 2011 08:28 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Bug? Happy new year. I compile and am using ESP-r11.10 with amd64 of Ubuntu10.10. It is displayed as shown in figure that the value of the displayed initialization appended. Is this a bug? [cid:13d52cef-3497-c359-dbae-9bd3b9586ba0 at me.com] [cid:19e430da-2d49-6f88-df37-8949788d2ea7 at me.com] ----- Name : Koji Takemasa E-mail : koji_takemasa at mac.com URL : http://web.me.com/koji_takemasa/MobileMe/LEAD_Project.html From Georgios.KOKOGIANNAKIS at nottingham.edu.cn Thu Jan 6 02:17:00 2011 From: Georgios.KOKOGIANNAKIS at nottingham.edu.cn (Georgios KOKOGIANNAKIS) Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2011 10:17:00 +0800 Subject: [esp-r] PhD opportunity at CSET, University of Nottingham (Ningbo, China) Message-ID: <076B831E3BD70140B69F1D47DF456F4A2B535CF88F@MBX.nottingham.edu.cn> Dear all, A PhD studentship opportunity currently exists at the Centre for Sustainable Energy Technologies (CSET), the University of Nottingham, Ningbo China. The funding covers tuition fees, university campus accommodation and a monthly allowance of about 2000RMB/month which may vary from year to year, for up to 3 years. Potential candidates should have minimum average score of 70% or above for graduates or a score above 65% for Master Degree holders. Candidates whose first language is not English are required to formally demonstrate their ability to speak English (usually with a good score of IELTS or TOEFL). Feel free to send me back an email if you are interested or you need more information on the above studentship. Best regards, Dr Georgios Kokogiannakis Lecturer, Center for Sustainable Energy Technologies (CSET) The University of Nottingham Ningbo, China Tel: +86 574 8818 0929 www.nottingham.edu.cn/cset -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110106/0658639d/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Fri Jan 7 05:48:05 2011 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2011 05:48:05 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Radiation algorithm In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA4130177E98EBFFB@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> There are several choices for finding out how ESP-r treats radiation: a) Look at Energy Simulation in Building Design by J A Clarke (ISBN 0 7506 5082 6) b) look in the source code (availble for download) search for sky temperature and you will find references to the source file esrubld/subsys.F The ESP-r Developers Guide provides lots of instructions for getting and exploring the source code. c) use the 'trace' function in the simulator to write out information about the radiant exchanges and sky temperatures d) run the simulator via a debug environement and you can single step through the solution process and see what is happening ( serious geek stuff but it is possible) Regards, Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Andr? Rocha [andrecdr at gmail.com] Sent: 29 December 2010 18:58 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Radiation algorithm Hello ESP-r world! I would like to know about the way radiation losses are dealt with in ESP-r. Does ESP-r calculate the sky temperature? How? (there isn't any reference to the "cloud factor" in my climate file...) Where can I find update information about ESP-r's algorithms? Thank all in advance! Best regards, Andr? Rocha (from ESP-r Portugal planet...) From perhaugaard at yahoo.dk Fri Jan 7 10:25:18 2011 From: perhaugaard at yahoo.dk (Per Haugaard) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2011 10:25:18 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [esp-r] Re: Error converting climatefile Message-ID: <539547.31997.qm@web26605.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Dear Jon and list, ? After studying the climatefile day by day in a spreadsheat and in the clm module I have located the trouble with the climatefile. The ascii-version looks fine but the analysis of the binary-verion within the clm-module revealed a shift of data from day to nighttime and to other days???? which causes the strange output for solar incidence, cf. attached files. ? This seems like an issue with the conversion from ascii to binary. Has anyone encountered this before and is there a workaround for this? ? /Per ? --- Den fre 17/12/10 skrev Jon Hand jon at esru.strath.ac.uk: ________________________________________ From: Per Haugaard [perhaugaard at yahoo.dk] Sent: 17 December 2010 13:07 To: Jon Hand Subject: RE: [esp-r]? Error converting climatefile Dear Jon, Thank you very much for you post. Attached you will find the climatefile. I get an resulting file from the conversion but my concern is that the insolation on 1x1x1m3 box diviade too much from results in another simulation programme. The incident insolation from the other programme is: North: 241 kWh/m2 (ESP-r 504 kWh/m2) South: 765 kWh/m2 (ESP-r 347 kWh/m2) East: 544 kWh/m2 (ESP-r 619 kWh/m2) West: 566 kWh/m2 (ESP-r 593 kWh/m2) Roof: 927 kWh/m2 (ESP-r 472 kWh/m2) It could look like I switched north and south but 180dg is set to south. Best regards Per --- Den fre 17/12/10 skrev Jon Hand : Fra: Jon Hand Emne: RE: [esp-r] Error converting climatefile Til: "perhaugaard at yahoo.dk" Dato: fredag 17. december 2010 13.17 It might report an error, but is there a binary file and does it contain information that looks ok (the last hour might be incorrect)? Can you send me the climate file to have a look at? -Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Per Haugaard [perhaugaard at yahoo.dk] Sent: 17 December 2010 11:53 To: ESP-r_ny Subject: [esp-r]? Error converting climatefile Dear list, ESP-r reports the following error "Warning:? In? 0,33,0,22,178,83," referring to the last line in the climatefile when converting from ascii to binary format. Below is a summary of the climatefile: *CLIMATE # ascii climate file from NS3031, # defined in: N_Stavanger.a # col 1: Diffuse solar on the horizontal (W/m**2) # col 2: External dry bulb temperature???(Tenths DEG.C) # col 3: Direct normal solar intensity???(W/m**2) # col 4: Prevailing wind speed? ? ? ? ???(Tenths m/s) # col 5: Wind direction? ???(clockwise deg from north) # col 6: Relative humidity? ? ? ? ? ? ???(Percent) STAVANGER NORGE? ? ? ? # site name 2001,58.58,-9.59,0,???# year latitude long diff rad flag 1,365,? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? # period (julian days) 0,94,0,32,173,82, 0,93,0,27,162,68, 0,91,0,23,204,66, 0,89,0,27,265,66, 0,87,0,26,173,66, .... ? 0,49,0,48,174,64, 0,45,0,42,114,61, 0,41,0,26,165,67, 0,35,0,19,118,76, 0,33,0,22,178,83, I have not included the optional day separator. Does anyone have an idea of what can be wrong? Best regards Per -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110107/1f759952/attachment-0001.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 2607 Type: image/x-png Size: 24673 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110107/1f759952/attachment-0002.bin -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Spreadsheat2607.JPG Type: image/pjpeg Size: 56891 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110107/1f759952/attachment-0003.bin From francesco.frontini at polimi.it Mon Jan 10 08:52:40 2011 From: francesco.frontini at polimi.it (Francesco Frontini) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 09:52:40 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Bi-directional control - doubts to make the input file Message-ID: Dear Paulo, sorry for the long waiting, regarding your questions: 1) What is the meaning of "*layers,3". That means that your complex facade is modeled as three layers construction (glass-air-glass). 2) The diffuse_abs and diffuse_trn are only used for data type 1. Type 1 is a special input date implemented some years ago. You do not need it now, this is way I put "#". 3) *direct_angs,37,37 represents the number of incident angle you gives to characterized your facade. As I told you you would like to give the direct transmission, the g-value and the reflectance of the whole system related to the incident angle of the radiation (described by the azimuth and the altitude) with a 5 degree steps, starting from 0 to 90?, (that means 18 values x2 +1 = 37). I hope it is now more clear. Regards and happy new year Francesco -- Dr. Francesco Frontini, MEng PhD in Buildings Engineering ---------------------------------------- Fraunhofer Institut f?r Solare Energiesysteme ISE Heidenhofstr. 2, 79110 Freiburg, Germany M1:? ? [+39] 333-3097826 M2:? ? [+49] (0)1522-1624691 Phone: [+49] (0)7614588-5358 FAX:?? [+49] (0)7614588-9358 @1: francesco.frontini at ise.fraunhofer.de @2: francesco.frontini at polimi.it ---------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you receive this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. From hee1 at dasskorea.com Sun Jan 9 12:19:38 2011 From: hee1 at dasskorea.com (=?EUC-KR?B?x9G8vMjx?=) Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 21:19:38 +0900 Subject: [esp-r] G-value of the glazing system in ESP-r Message-ID: Hi all I have tried to get the G-value of the glazing system in ESP-r. But I haven't been able to find it. In fact, I found the 'view g-value' of the construction database and opened it. But, it showed me different values such as emissivy, ref, o-ref, etc, not the g-value. Could you tell me how I can find the g-value or calculate it based on those values mentioned above? Any prompt comment will be really appreciated. Regards, Hee -- Han Sehee / Team Manager Design and Simulation for Sustainability(DASS) Solutions Ltd. 4F WooAm Building, #355-22 Seogyo-dong, Mapo-gu, Seoul, Rep. of Korea (Post Code: 121-838) T: +82 2 913 2585 F: +82 2 949 2585 M: +82 10 5095 8155 www.dasskorea.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110109/7d6322c5/attachment.html From achim.geissler at intergga.ch Mon Jan 10 20:04:27 2011 From: achim.geissler at intergga.ch (Achim Geissler) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 21:04:27 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: G-value of the glazing system in ESP-r In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear Hee the g-value of a glazing is a "derived quantity" and is not explicitly entered in the construction (or anywhere in an ESP-r model). You enter solar absorption and transmission for each glass pane for a given glazing system for 5 angles of radiation incidence (the values for an IGU of interest can be generated by "3rd programs" such as LBNL Window or WIS). The (effective) heat gain through the glass is then calculated during run-time depending on the time step solar radiation incidence angle and surrounding air and surface temperatures. This will usually never be the same as the g-value you get from a glass supplier due to the fact that the supplier value is for perpendicular radiation on the glazing surface and also disregards air temperature differences either side of the glass. Hope this helps. Best Achim On Jan 9, 2011, at 1:19 PM, ??? wrote: > Hi all > > I have tried to get the G-value of the glazing system in ESP-r. > > But I haven't been able to find it. > > In fact, I found the 'view g-value' of the construction database and opened it. > > But, it showed me different values such as emissivy, ref, o-ref, etc, not the g-value. > > Could you tell me how I can find the g-value or calculate it based on those values mentioned above? > > Any prompt comment will be really appreciated. > > Regards, > > Hee > -- > Han Sehee / Team Manager > > Design and Simulation for Sustainability(DASS) Solutions Ltd. > 4F WooAm Building, #355-22 Seogyo-dong, Mapo-gu, Seoul, > Rep. of Korea (Post Code: 121-838) > > T: +82 2 913 2585 > F: +82 2 949 2585 > M: +82 10 5095 8155 > > www.dasskorea.com > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r achim.geissler at intergga.ch -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110110/cbbaffbe/attachment.html From aizaz.a.samuel at strath.ac.uk Tue Jan 11 12:56:53 2011 From: aizaz.a.samuel at strath.ac.uk (Aizaz Samuel) Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 12:56:53 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: G-value of the glazing system in ESP-r In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D2C5395.2090208@strath.ac.uk> Reporting the g-value is a necessary requirement for compliance with CIBSE TM33:2006 (and later). ESP-r just reports the g-value and does not perform any calculations based on it like Achim mentioned. You can report g-values using ESP-r for user defined fenestration systems (there is some help available in the interface) by choosing view g-value > choose a construction type > user defined. Calculation of g-value is derived from BS EN 410:1998 -Aizaz On 01/10/2011 08:04 PM, Achim Geissler wrote: > Dear Hee > > the g-value of a glazing is a "derived quantity" and is not explicitly > entered in the construction (or anywhere in an ESP-r model). You enter > solar absorption and transmission for each glass pane for a given > glazing system for 5 angles of radiation incidence (the values for an > IGU of interest can be generated by "3rd programs" such as LBNL Window > or WIS). The (effective) heat gain through the glass is then > calculated during run-time depending on the time step solar radiation > incidence angle and surrounding air and surface temperatures. This > will usually never be the same as the g-value you get from a glass > supplier due to the fact that the supplier value is for perpendicular > radiation on the glazing surface and also disregards air temperature > differences either side of the glass. > > Hope this helps. > > Best > Achim > > > On Jan 9, 2011, at 1:19 PM, ??? wrote: > >> Hi all >> >> I have tried to get the G-value of the glazing system in ESP-r. >> But I haven't been able to find it. >> In fact, I found the 'view g-value' of the construction database and >> opened it. >> But, it showed me different values such as emissivy, ref, o-ref, >> etc, not the g-value. >> Could you tell me how I can find the g-value or calculate it based on >> those values mentioned above? >> Any prompt comment will be really appreciated. >> >> Regards, >> >> Hee >> -- >> Han Sehee / Team Manager >> >> Design and Simulation for Sustainability(DASS) Solutions Ltd. >> 4F WooAm Building, #355-22 Seogyo-dong, Mapo-gu, Seoul, >> Rep. of Korea (Post Code: 121-838) >> >> T: +82 2 913 2585 >> F: +82 2 949 2585 >> M: +82 10 5095 8155 >> >> www.dasskorea.com >> _______________________________________________ >> esp-r mailing list >> esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk >> http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > > achim.geissler at intergga.ch > > > > -- Dr Aizaz A Samuel Department of Mechanical Engineering University of Strathclyde James Weir Building Glasgow, UK t: +44 141 548 5765 f: +44 141 552 5105 e: samuel at esru.strath.ac.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110111/1f8d5c91/attachment.html From g.ulukavak.harputlugil at gmail.com Mon Jan 17 13:43:59 2011 From: g.ulukavak.harputlugil at gmail.com (Gulsu Ulukavak Harputlugil) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2011 14:43:59 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] an error message In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi there, I have a problem when copying files and I searched the past disscussions to find a solution to the problem. There is an e-mail titled "Problems in tmc, opr files when copying zones" sent to the list on march 2010. (The related link of the messages: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/2010/001741.html) The listed problems in this e-mail are completely the same what I have. Jon replied it as "do not worry, we are about to solve the problem.." However, now I am using windows version 11.9 and I downloaded it on november 2010. There is still same problem...Besides getting an error mssage as "unable to free error channel", each time I loose all the schedule that I inserted as operational details. The values change completely in a crazy way.... Now, There is one issue: I want to copy the files and modify the opr files for each case... There are two questions: 1. is it possible to solve this problem? 2. if solving the problem is not possible, in a practical way how can I copy the files or save the model as a different file? Thank you. Regards, Gulsu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110117/ee97fa15/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Tue Jan 25 20:48:14 2011 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 20:48:14 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: ESP-r Command Line interface In-Reply-To: <4D3ECEFD.8010207@ed.ac.uk> References: <4D3ECEFD.8010207@ed.ac.uk> Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA4130177ECECCAB7@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> A question about script. This kind of question is covered in many earlier posts... The appendix of the ESP-r Cookbook gives some information. There are a number of scripts used in the folder src/validation/benchmark/QA/model/cfg A high level scrip TEST calls other scripts ANALYSE SIMULATE.wc etc. On OSX and Linux and Cygwin esp-r modules can be started with a -mode text in the command line to get a text interface. The native windows version of esp-r has an alternaitve bin_text with executables compiled to run in a dos command window. -Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: Amar Seeam [a.seeam at ed.ac.uk] Sent: 25 January 2011 13:24 To: Jon Hand Subject: ESP-r Command Line interface Dear Jon, Is there any documentation / tutorials for running ESP-r completely from command-line? I would like to script and automate simulation runs. Thanks, Amar. -- The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in Scotland, with registration number SC005336. From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Wed Jan 26 08:15:20 2011 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 08:15:20 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: ESP-r zone construction file error. Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA4130177ECECCAC1@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> Warnings when scanning zone files... The zone construction file groundfloor.con (below) might indicate that the information in this file is not consistent with the construction and materials databases or the attribution in the zone geometry file. One quick test is to rename the *.con and *.tmc files for this zone and use the project manager to re-create these files for the ground floor zone. Then look for differences between the new files and the re-named files. It is also worth considering 'what did you recently change in the model'. That might give some clues. -Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk [A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk] Sent: 25 January 2011 22:45 To: Jon Hand; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: RE: ESP-r Command Line interface Dear All, I am getting an error message saying: failed in /zones/groundfloor.con: conversion of air gap value in 0.17 ECONST: read/conversion error in...2, 0.17, in /zones/groundfloor.com did anyone come across it and can advise on what to do? I cannot initiate a simulation either, which may well depend on this problem. Let me know. Thank you and kind regards, Arianna ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ From A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk Tue Jan 25 22:45:14 2011 From: A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk (A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 22:45:14 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: ESP-r Command Line interface In-Reply-To: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA4130177ECECCAB7@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> References: <4D3ECEFD.8010207@ed.ac.uk> <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA4130177ECECCAB7@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> Message-ID: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C12170A6@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> Dear All, I am getting an error message saying: failed in /zones/groundfloor.con: conversion of air gap value in 0.17 ECONST: read/conversion error in...2, 0.17, in /zones/groundfloor.com did anyone come across it and can advise on what to do? I cannot initiate a simulation either, which may well depend on this problem. Let me know. Thank you and kind regards, Arianna ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ From miguelduartefsilva at hotmail.com Wed Jan 26 13:41:15 2011 From: miguelduartefsilva at hotmail.com (Miguel Silva) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 13:41:15 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] hvac system Message-ID: Hi all, My project has a air conditioning system based on split heat pump. I've walked in to look Esp-r and no find this component. How will I be able to know which energy expended (electric)? In the control module can only put the maximum power heating and cooling and in this case can never put the COP of the machine. someone can help me? Best regards, Thank in advance Miguel Silva Instituto Polit?cnico de Leiria - Portugal -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110126/f5e2b3e5/attachment.html From achim.geissler at intergga.ch Wed Jan 26 18:19:55 2011 From: achim.geissler at intergga.ch (Achim Geissler) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 19:19:55 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: hvac system In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear Miguel from what you write, I assume you have a model "up and running" that features "heating and cooling" via simple zone control. In controls, you typically enter the maximum power available (at the receiving end, that is). Simulation results will give you the fraction used at each time step. From this, it should be straightforward to calculated your electricity needs using the COP as a post-process step. No? There are likely more elaborate approaches available, e.g. via a plant. However, I do not know if there is a plant component available that will exactly fit your needs. Have you looked at plants? There are quite a few exemplars that feature a variety of plant networks. Best Achim On Jan 26, 2011, at 2:41 PM, Miguel Silva wrote: > > Hi all, > > My project has a air conditioning system based on split heat pump. I've walked in to look Esp-r and no find this component. How will I be able to know which energy expended (electric)? In the control module can only put the maximum power heating and cooling and in this case can never put the COP of the machine. > > someone can help me? > > > Best regards, > Thank in advance > > > Miguel Silva > > Instituto Polit?cnico de Leiria - Portugal > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r achim.geissler at intergga.ch -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110126/4a21d4fa/attachment.html From miguelduartefsilva at hotmail.com Fri Jan 28 19:48:06 2011 From: miguelduartefsilva at hotmail.com (Miguel Silva) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 19:48:06 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: hvac system In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: I've been looking for in plant and not found any component. The system is the simplest HVAC system, the traditional split (heat pump). Since there is no component will have to do the conversion by the end for each zone. Best regards, Thanks Miguel Silva Instituto Polit?cnico de Leiria - Portugal From: achim.geissler at intergga.ch Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 19:19:55 +0100 To: miguelduartefsilva at hotmail.com CC: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Re: hvac system Dear Miguel from what you write, I assume you have a model "up and running" that features "heating and cooling" via simple zone control. In controls, you typically enter the maximum power available (at the receiving end, that is). Simulation results will give you the fraction used at each time step. From this, it should be straightforward to calculated your electricity needs using the COP as a post-process step. No? There are likely more elaborate approaches available, e.g. via a plant. However, I do not know if there is a plant component available that will exactly fit your needs. Have you looked at plants? There are quite a few exemplars that feature a variety of plant networks. BestAchim On Jan 26, 2011, at 2:41 PM, Miguel Silva wrote: Hi all, My project has a air conditioning system based on split heat pump. I've walked in to look Esp-r and no find this component. How will I be able to know which energy expended (electric)? In the control module can only put the maximum power heating and cooling and in this case can never put the COP of the machine. someone can help me? Best regards, Thank in advance Miguel Silva Instituto Polit?cnico de Leiria - Portugal _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r achim.geissler at intergga.ch _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110128/b1e88426/attachment.html From achim.geissler at intergga.ch Sat Jan 29 19:45:37 2011 From: achim.geissler at intergga.ch (Achim Geissler) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 20:45:37 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: hvac system In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: <3345731E-49A3-42E6-B9E2-9D146F013039@intergga.ch> Dear Miguel still not quite sure what system you mean. What is "the simplest HVAC system"? All three (H, V, AC)? Just one? Have you looked at the available "Air Source Heat Pump connected to WCH system"? What is your source / sink? How is your heat pump connected to the building? Via a/the Ventilation system? Via the WCH? Possibly you can set up a plant that fits your needs with "only" the actual heat pump (between whatever the source/sink is) is missing. Thereby, you can possibly model any effects you need (as "maximum complexity example" maybe look at the exemplar "sports_cen" found in training/chp) and keep post-processing to a minimum. Best Achim On Jan 28, 2011, at 8:48 PM, Miguel Silva wrote: > > I've been looking for in plant and not found any component. The system is the simplest HVAC system, the traditional split (heat pump). Since there is no component will have to dothe conversion by the end for each zone. > > Best regards, > Thanks > > Miguel Silva > > Instituto Polit?cnico de Leiria - Portugal > > From: achim.geissler at intergga.ch > Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 19:19:55 +0100 > To: miguelduartefsilva at hotmail.com > CC: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Subject: [esp-r] Re: hvac system > > Dear Miguel > > from what you write, I assume you have a model "up and running" that features "heating and cooling" via simple zone control. In controls, you typically enter the maximum power available (at the receiving end, that is). Simulation results will give you the fraction used at each time step. From this, it should be straightforward to calculated your electricity needs using the COP as a post-process step. No? > > There are likely more elaborate approaches available, e.g. via a plant. However, I do not know if there is a plant component available that will exactly fit your needs. Have you looked at plants? There are quite a few exemplars that feature a variety of plant networks. > > Best > Achim > > > > > > On Jan 26, 2011, at 2:41 PM, Miguel Silva wrote: > > > Hi all, > > My project has a air conditioning system based on split heat pump. I've walked in to look Esp-r and no find this component. How will I be able to know which energy expended (electric)? In the control module can only put the maximum power heating and cooling and in this case can never put the COP of the machine. > > someone can help me? > > > Best regards, > Thank in advance > > > Miguel Silva > > Instituto Polit?cnico de Leiria - Portugal > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > > achim.geissler at intergga.ch > > > > > > _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r_______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r achim.geissler at intergga.ch -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110129/e6b9575d/attachment.html From A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk Mon Jan 31 14:03:55 2011 From: A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk (A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 14:03:55 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] optics in geo file In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C1217641@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> Help, I get this error message: optics in geo file TRAN does not match optics of the MLC DCF7671_06nb, does anyone know what to do? Thank you, kind regards. Arianna ____ ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110131/c86deffe/attachment.html From achim.geissler at intergga.ch Mon Jan 31 18:52:29 2011 From: achim.geissler at intergga.ch (Achim Geissler) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 19:52:29 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: optics in geo file In-Reply-To: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C1217641@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> References: , <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C1217641@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> Message-ID: <9BEE6E6F-F8DD-4369-85FF-9622B00BA7D0@intergga.ch> Hi Arianna if you have not solved this yet, one possible approach is to go into "surface attributes" menu in the "edit zone" menu (the menu where you can attribute boundary conditions and constructions). Here, you can choose "type of surface". It should read "TRAN". I have come across these messages, also. I'm not entirely sure, yet, but I think it may be a (new) bug. Best Achim On Jan 31, 2011, at 3:03 PM, A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk wrote: > Help, I get this error message: optics in geo file TRAN does not match optics of the MLC DCF7671_06nb, does anyone know what to do? Thank you, kind regards. Arianna ____ > > ___________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security > System on behalf of the University of Brighton. > For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ > ___________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r achim.geissler at intergga.ch -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110131/bd886298/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Tue Feb 1 10:42:10 2011 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2011 10:42:10 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: optics in geo file In-Reply-To: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C1217641@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> References: , , <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C1217641@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA4130177EDCE967E@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> This is a glitch that was identified a few days ago. It happens when there are several very similar construction names used in a zone e.g brick_a brick_b brick_c. The code that does the comparison needed to be a bit more clever. In the above case if you had construction names a_brick b_brick c_brick the problem would not happen. And the specific message TRAN is probably not a problem - it might indicate that a new construction which is transparent has been defined but the specific name of the optical property has not been defined. It would be possible to create a new installer for native windows with the corrected code in the next couple of weeks. Regards, Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk [A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk] Sent: 31 January 2011 14:03 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] optics in geo file Help, I get this error message: optics in geo file TRAN does not match optics of the MLC DCF7671_06nb, does anyone know what to do? Thank you, kind regards. Arianna ____ ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ From francesco.frontini at polimi.it Wed Feb 2 09:17:57 2011 From: francesco.frontini at polimi.it (Francesco Frontini) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2011 10:17:57 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] PCM models Message-ID: Dear all, we are looking for a Phase Change Material PCM model for ESP-r which include the under cooling effect during the solidification process. To be a bit more detailed we have to model a PCM from DeltaCool which has two different curves for the solidification state and for the melting state. The two capacity peaks differ by 3K. We heard that there already some new PCM models available (not just the Heim model) but they are not available yet in the actual release.. Any suggestion? How we can access them? Best regards Francesco and Tobias -- Dr. Francesco Frontini, MEng PhD in Buildings Engineering ---------------------------------------- Fraunhofer Institut f?r Solare Energiesysteme ISE Heidenhofstr. 2, 79110 Freiburg, Germany M1:? ? [+39] 333-3097826 M2:? ? [+49] (0)1522-1624691 Phone: [+49] (0)7614588-5358 FAX:?? [+49] (0)7614588-9358 @1: francesco.frontini at ise.fraunhofer.de @2: francesco.frontini at polimi.it ---------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you receive this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. From achim.geissler at intergga.ch Wed Feb 2 13:37:42 2011 From: achim.geissler at intergga.ch (Achim.geissler) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2011 14:37:42 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: PCM models Message-ID: Dear Francesco the model you are (probably) referring to is part of the development_branch (and has been for some time) and so should be available in the official version. It is type "SPMCMP56" and covers the topics you mention. The model is loosely based on the PhD thesis of Sabine Hoffmann, University of Weimar, September 2006. Tests done with the significantly enhanced model showed quite good results for the PCM material used at that time. What was / is tricky is finding a good set of coefficients for the functions used for describing melting and solidification behaviour. At the time, this was done via a MathCAD sheet which may still be available. There are others on the list also involved. Maybe they can/will tune in. By the way, rumor has it, that ISE did extensive simulations recently with PCMs in curtain walls or better HVAC in curtain walls. It would be interesting, which model was used ... ;o) Best Achim --------- Original-Nachricht -------- Von: "Francesco Frontini" An: "esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk" Betreff: [esp-r] PCM models Datum: 02/02/11 10:20 Dear all, we are looking for a Phase Change Material PCM model for ESP-r which include the under cooling effect during the solidification process. To be a bit more detailed we have to model a PCM from DeltaCool which has two different curves for the solidification state and for the melting state. The two capacity peaks differ by 3K. We heard that there already some new PCM models available (not just the Heim model) but they are not available yet in the actual release.. Any suggestion? How we can access them? Best regards Francesco and Tobias -- Dr. Francesco Frontini, MEng PhD in Buildings Engineering ---------------------------------------- Fraunhofer Institut f?r Solare Energiesysteme ISE Heidenhofstr. 2, 79110 Freiburg, Germany M1:? ? [+39] 333-3097826 M2:? ? [+49] (0)1522-1624691 Phone: [+49] (0)7614588-5358 FAX:?? [+49] (0)7614588-9358 @1: francesco.frontini at ise.fraunhofer.de (mailto:francesco.frontini at ise.fraunhofer.de" class="autolink) @2: francesco.frontini at polimi.it (mailto:francesco.frontini at polimi.it" class="autolink) ---------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you receive this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk (mailto:esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk" class="autolink) http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r (http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r" target="_blank" class="autolink) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110202/546721d1/attachment.html From h.b.awbi at reading.ac.uk Wed Feb 2 20:31:55 2011 From: h.b.awbi at reading.ac.uk (Hazim B. Awbi) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2011 20:31:55 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: PCM models In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear Achim and others We measured heat transfer coefficients for PCM boards on a wall under controlled conditions in an environmental test chamber. This data is available in the 2009 Building & Environment paper "Performance of phase change material boards under natural convection by Liu & Awbi, Vol. 44, pp1788-1793". Regards, Hazim ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Professor Hazim B. Awbi Director Technologies for Sustainable Built Environments Centre JJ Thompson Building University of Reading Reading RG6 6AF UK Tel: +44 (0) 118 378 6786 Fax: +44 (0) 118 931 4316 http://www.reading.ac.uk/tsbe/ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Achim.geissler Sent: 02 February 2011 13:38 To: FrancescoFrontini; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Re: PCM models Dear Francesco the model you are (probably) referring to is part of the development_branch (and has been for some time) and so should be available in the official version. It is type "SPMCMP56" and covers the topics you mention. The model is loosely based on the PhD thesis of Sabine Hoffmann, University of Weimar, September 2006. Tests done with the significantly enhanced model showed quite good results for the PCM material used at that time. What was / is tricky is finding a good set of coefficients for the functions used for describing melting and solidification behaviour. At the time, this was done via a MathCAD sheet which may still be available. There are others on the list also involved. Maybe they can/will tune in. By the way, rumor has it, that ISE did extensive simulations recently with PCMs in curtain walls or better HVAC in curtain walls. It would be interesting, which model was used ... ;o) Best Achim --------- Original-Nachricht -------- Von: "Francesco Frontini" An: "esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk" Betreff: [esp-r] PCM models Datum: 02/02/11 10:20 Dear all, we are looking for a Phase Change Material PCM model for ESP-r which include the under cooling effect during the solidification process. To be a bit more detailed we have to model a PCM from DeltaCool which has two different curves for the solidification state and for the melting state. The two capacity peaks differ by 3K. We heard that there already some new PCM models available (not just the Heim model) but they are not available yet in the actual release.. Any suggestion? How we can access them? Best regards Francesco and Tobias -- Dr. Francesco Frontini, MEng ! PhD in Buildings Engineering ---------------------------------------- Fraunhofer Institut f?r Solare Energiesysteme ISE Heidenhofstr. 2, 79110 Freiburg, Germany M1: [+39] 333-3097826 M2: [+49] (0)1522-1624691 Phone: [+49] (0)7614588-5358 FAX: [+49] (0)7614588-9358 @1: francesco.frontini at ise.fraunhofer.de @2: francesco.frontini at polimi.it ---------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other ! than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you receive this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110202/c39113fb/attachment.html From achim.geissler at intergga.ch Thu Feb 3 08:07:23 2011 From: achim.geissler at intergga.ch (Achim.geissler) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 09:07:23 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: PCM models Message-ID: <61c94e60e29617f9c1acc61a66387895@212.203.77.242> Dear Hazim very interesting paper. One question I could not see answered, though: The measurements of heat flux will include a long wave radiative part, won't they? The equations you give (Table 2) are convective, only. As the various surfaces of the test chamber did not seem to have the same temperature, there will have been a long wave exchange component, also. Did you check on its possible magnitude? Adding an additional approach for "convective heat transfer for PCM" would be straightforward in ESP-r. Do you have a suggestion as to its theoretical/equation-wise description? Thanks. Best Achim --------- Original-Nachricht -------- Von: "Hazim B. Awbi" An: "Achim.geissler" Cc: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk, "FrancescoFrontini" Betreff: RE: [esp-r] Re: PCM models Datum: 02/02/11 21:32 Dear Achim and others ? We measured heat transfer coefficients for PCM boards on a wall under controlled conditions in an environmental test chamber. This data is available in the 2009 Building & Environment paper “Performance of phase change material boards under natural convection by Liu & Awbi, Vol. 44, pp1788-1793”. ? Regards, Hazim ? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Professor Hazim B. Awbi Director Technologies for Sustainable Built Environments Centre JJ Thompson Building University of Reading Reading RG6 6AF UK Tel: +44 (0) 118 378 6786 Fax: +44 (0) 118 931 4316 http://www.reading.ac.uk/tsbe/ (http://www.reading.ac.uk/tsbe/) ? ? From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Achim.geissler Sent: 02 February 2011 13:38 To: FrancescoFrontini; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Re: PCM models ? Dear Francesco the model you are (probably) referring to is part of the development_branch (and has been for some time) and so should be available in the official version. It is type "SPMCMP56" and covers the topics you mention. The model is loosely based on the PhD thesis of Sabine Hoffmann, University of Weimar, September 2006. Tests done with the significantly enhanced model showed quite good results for the PCM material used at that time. What was / is tricky is finding a good set of coefficients for the functions used for describing melting and solidification behaviour. At the time, this was done via a MathCAD sheet which may still be available. There are others on the list also involved. Maybe they can/will tune in. By the way, rumor has it, that ISE did extensive simulations recently with PCMs in curtain walls or better HVAC in curtain walls. It would be interesting, which model was used ... ;o) Best Achim --------- Original-Nachricht -------- Von: "Francesco Frontini" An: "esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk" Betreff: [esp-r] PCM models Datum: 02/02/11 10:20 Dear all, we are looking for a Phase Change Material PCM model for ESP-r which include the under cooling effect during the solidification process. To be a bit more detailed we have to model a PCM from DeltaCool which has two different curves for the solidification state and for the melting state. The two capacity peaks differ by 3K. We heard that there already some new PCM models available (not just the Heim model) but they are not available yet in the actual release.. Any suggestion? How we can access them? Best regards Francesco and Tobias -- Dr. Francesco Frontini, MEng ! PhD in Buildings Engineering ---------------------------------------- Fraunhofer Institut f?r Solare Energiesysteme ISE Heidenhofstr. 2, 79110 Freiburg, Germany M1:? ? [+39] 333-3097826 M2:? ? [+49] (0)1522-1624691 Phone: [+49] (0)7614588-5358 FAX:?? [+49] (0)7614588-9358 @1: francesco.frontini at ise.fraunhofer.de (mailto:francesco.frontini at ise.fraunhofer.de) @2: francesco.frontini at polimi.it (mailto:francesco.frontini at polimi.it) ---------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other ! than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you receive this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk (mailto:esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk) http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r (http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r" target="_blank) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110203/a30718ec/attachment-0001.html From h.b.awbi at reading.ac.uk Thu Feb 3 08:46:37 2011 From: h.b.awbi at reading.ac.uk (Hazim B. Awbi) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 08:46:37 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: PCM models In-Reply-To: <61c94e60e29617f9c1acc61a66387895@212.203.77.242> References: <61c94e60e29617f9c1acc61a66387895@212.203.77.242> Message-ID: Dear Achim You have raised a very valid point. In our experiments we tried to reduce the effect of radiation as much as possible as the aim was to derive convective coefficients for the PCM boards. The heated wall was covered with polished aluminium plates with emissivity of about 0.06 to reduce the radiation effect. This was the only heated surface with high temperatures. The temperatures of the other surfaces where considerably lower and did not differ very much. In summary there would have been some radiation effect but we believe that this did not have a significant impact on the results. It would be interesting if some simulations could be carried out with ESP-r for comparison as we haven't done that yet. Regards, Hazim From: Achim.geissler [mailto:achim.geissler at intergga.ch] Sent: 03 February 2011 08:07 To: HazimB.Awbi; Achim.geissler Cc: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk; FrancescoFrontini Subject: AW: RE: [esp-r] Re: PCM models Dear Hazim very interesting paper. One question I could not see answered, though: The measurements of heat flux will include a long wave radiative part, won't they? The equations you give (Table 2) are convective, only. As the various surfaces of the test chamber did not seem to have the same temperature, there will have been a long wave exchange component, also. Did you check on its possible magnitude? Adding an additional approach for "convective heat transfer for PCM" would be straightforward in ESP-r. Do you have a suggestion as to its theoretical/equation-wise description? Thanks. Best Achim --------- Original-Nachricht -------- Von: "Hazim B. Awbi" An: "Achim.geissler" Cc: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk, "FrancescoFrontini" ! Betreff: RE: [esp-r] Re: PCM models Datum: 02/02/11 21:32 Dear Achim and others We measured heat transfer coefficients for PCM boards on a wall under controlled conditions in an environmental test chamber. This data is available in the 2009 Building & Environment paper "Performance of phase change material boards under natural convection by Liu & Awbi, Vol. 44, pp1788-1793". Regards, Hazim ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Professor Hazim B. Awbi Director Technologies for Sustainable Built Environments Centre JJ Thompson Building University of Reading Reading RG6 6AF UK Tel: +44 (0) 118 378 6786 Fax: +44 (0) 118 931 4316 http://www.reading.ac.uk/tsbe/ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Achim.geissler Sent: 02 February 2011 13:38 To: FrancescoFrontini; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Re: PCM models Dear Francesco the model you are (probably) referring to is part of the development_branch (and has been for some time) and so should be available in the official version. It is type "SPMCMP56" and covers the topics you mention. The model is loosely based on the PhD thesis of Sabine Hoffmann, University of Weimar, September 2006. Tests done with the significantly enhanced model showed quite good results for the PCM material used at that time. What was / is tricky is finding a good set of coefficients for the functions used for describing melting and solidification behaviour. At the time, this was done via a MathCAD sheet which may still be available. There are others on the list also involved. Maybe they can/will tune in. By the way, rumor has it, that ISE did extensive simulations recently with PCMs in curtain walls or better HVAC in curtain walls. It would be intere! sting, which model was used ... ;o) Best Achim --------- Original-Nachricht -------- Von: "Francesco Frontini" An: "esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk" Betreff: [esp-r] PCM models Datum: 02/02/11 10:20 Dear all, we are looking for a Phase Change Material PCM model for ESP-r which include the under cooling effect during the solidification process. To be a bit more detailed we have to model a PCM from DeltaCool which has two different curves for the solidification state and for the melting state. The two capacity peaks differ by 3K. We heard that there already some new PCM models available (not just the Heim model) but they are not available yet in the actual release.. Any suggestion? How we can access them? Best regards Francesco and Tobias -- Dr. Francesco Frontini, MEng ! PhD in Buildings Engineering ---------------------------------------- Fraunhofer Institut f?r Solare Energiesysteme ISE Heidenhofstr. 2, 79110 Freiburg, Germany M1: [+39] 333-3097826 M2: [+49] (0)1522-1624691 Phone: [+49] (0)7614588-5358 FAX: [+49] (0)7614588-9358 @1: francesco.frontini at ise.fraunhofer.de @2: francesco.frontini at polimi.it ---------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or enti! ties other ! than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you receive this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110203/22cd077f/attachment.html From paul at esru.strath.ac.uk Thu Feb 3 10:47:10 2011 From: paul at esru.strath.ac.uk (Paul Strachan) Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2011 10:47:10 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Introduction to ESP-r course Message-ID: <4D4A87AE.5030207@esru.strath.ac.uk> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110203/e80d963a/attachment.html From rodrigo.jpg at gmail.com Fri Feb 4 09:56:38 2011 From: rodrigo.jpg at gmail.com (Rodrigo Perez) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 06:56:38 -0300 Subject: [esp-r] Cflow3 Software. In-Reply-To: <4D4A87AE.5030207@esru.strath.ac.uk> References: <4D4A87AE.5030207@esru.strath.ac.uk> Message-ID: Dear All, I have a question, how i can get the CFlow3 software? I searched for internet but could not find. I hope you can help me. Best Regards. Rodrigo P?rez. From Leanne.Philip at SMU.CA Mon Feb 7 12:33:32 2011 From: Leanne.Philip at SMU.CA (Leanne Philip) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2011 08:33:32 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] questions regarding results from fictional building model Message-ID: <000001cbc6c3$3b1e6080$b15b2180$%Philip@smu.ca> I am using esp-r as a beginner and have learned how to construct fictional buildings. I would like to be able to run the simulation and obtain results that display graphically the energy consumption. I am using the program in Windows and would like any suggestions on how I can obtain this output in graphical form. Any helpful suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I am coming from a non-engineering background so I am using the user list and online resources to learn how to do very basic things in esp-r. Thanks for your time. L. Philip Leanne J. Philip Postdoctoral Researcher Biology/Environmental Studies Saint Mary's University Halifax, Nova Scotia, CANADA B3H 3C3 902 420 5506 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110207/9d891588/attachment.html From rodrigo.jpg at gmail.com Mon Feb 7 11:55:17 2011 From: rodrigo.jpg at gmail.com (Rodrigo Perez) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 08:55:17 -0300 Subject: [esp-r] error MZSAD1 Message-ID: <94F4E785-F4E3-4C71-8EC0-C9499DF89E4C@gmail.com> I am working in the simulation the building, but when running the simulation esp-r tells me the following error: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Captura de pantalla 2011-02-07 a las 07.49.16.png Type: image/png Size: 14724 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110207/7351b6ee/attachment.png -------------- next part -------------- now, when changing the time step, the mistake disappears. which will be the mistake? Rodrigo P?rez. From achim.geissler at intergga.ch Mon Feb 7 16:13:23 2011 From: achim.geissler at intergga.ch (Achim.geissler) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 17:13:23 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: error MZSAD1 Message-ID: <74443954b2cb2a49880d912cda22e498@212.203.77.242> Dear Rodrigo as a first test, increase the number of time steps per hour from 1 to 10. What are you simulating? Do you have a plant? A flow network? Very heavy constructions? Best Achim --------- Original-Nachricht -------- Von: "Rodrigo Perez" An: "esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk" Betreff: [esp-r] error MZSAD1 Datum: 07/02/11 15:56 I am working in the simulation the building, but when running the simulation esp-r tells me the following error: now, when changing the time step, the mistake disappears. which will be the mistake? Rodrigo P?rez. _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk (mailto:esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk" class="autolink) http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r (http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r" target="_blank" class="autolink) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110207/e6c3eccf/attachment-0001.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Mon Feb 7 20:40:56 2011 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 20:40:56 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: questions regarding results from fictional building model In-Reply-To: <000001cbc6c3$3b1e6080$b15b2180$%Philip@smu.ca> References: <000001cbc6c3$3b1e6080$b15b2180$%Philip@smu.ca> Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA413017C8748A69D@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> The December 2010 version of the ESP-r Cookbook (on the ESRU web site) includes a chapter on the use of the results analysis module of ESP-r. -Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Leanne Philip [Leanne.Philip at SMU.CA] Sent: 07 February 2011 12:33 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] questions regarding results from fictional building model I am using esp-r as a beginner and have learned how to construct fictional buildings. I would like to be able to run the simulation and obtain results that display graphically the energy consumption. I am using the program in Windows and would like any suggestions on how I can obtain this output in graphical form. Any helpful suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I am coming from a non-engineering background so I am using the user list and online resources to learn how to do very basic things in esp-r. Thanks for your time. L. Philip Leanne J. Philip Postdoctoral Researcher Biology/Environmental Studies Saint Mary's University Halifax, Nova Scotia, CANADA B3H 3C3 902 420 5506 From David.Tang at owenscorning.com Tue Feb 8 06:55:24 2011 From: David.Tang at owenscorning.com (Tang, David) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 14:55:24 +0800 Subject: [esp-r] =?gb2312?b?tPC4tDogICBDZmxvdzMgU29mdHdhcmUu?= In-Reply-To: References: <4D4A87AE.5030207@esru.strath.ac.uk> Message-ID: <75C7116929E8744596D1F206448AEB1D27506247D8@APHS7200.ap.corp.owenscorning.com> Cflo3 is a CFD software package developed by myself available free for non commercial use. It is packaged as virtual appliance for WindowXP. If you are interested please send me an email describing yourself, your company (if used for your work or research) and the intended use I'll send you instruction for download. Regards, David Tang, PhD EurIng, CEng, FCIBSE, FEI, MASHRAE Chief Engineer | Energy Solutions | BMAP Owens Corning t: 021 6101 9587; f: 021 6101 9588; m: 13817249419 -----????----- ???: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] ?? Rodrigo Perez ????: 2011?2?4? 17:57 ???: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk ??: [esp-r] Cflow3 Software. Dear All, I have a question, how i can get the CFlow3 software? I searched for internet but could not find. I hope you can help me. Best Regards. Rodrigo P?rez. _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r The information contained in this communication and its attachment(s) is intended only for the use of the individual to whom it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential, or exempt from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify postmaster at owenscorning.com and delete the communication without retaining any copies. Thank you. Translations available: http://www.owenscorning.com/emailfooter.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Thu Feb 10 06:57:50 2011 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 06:57:50 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] looking for people to test a new installer for the Cygwin version of ESP-r. Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA413017D550E8231@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> The installer for the Cygwin version of ESP-r is a text based script. And you have to run it within the cygwin environment. Not so nice for some people. I just made an installer for the Cygwin version of ESP-r which runs as a standard Windows installer. It includes instructions about how to setup Cygwin and what you have to do within Cygwin after the ESP-r Installer has run. It even starts up Cygwin at the end of the process so that you can test if the Installer has done its job correctly. I have done test installs and found that the Installer works best if existing native windows versions of ESP-r are removed prior to using the ESP-r Cygwin installer (chaos iif you have both on one machine). Anyway I want to find out if this kind of installer is a better option than the *.run file normally used for Cygwin. One current limitation is that I do not know how to give an option for X11 or GTK within this new kind of installer. It might be possible to do this with the ISTool and Inno Setup environments? If you are able to try it out and comment on the process that would be great. Send me an email and I will send you a link to a dropbox file that you can download. Regards, Jon Hand From gianluca.brunetti at polimi.it Thu Feb 10 18:33:08 2011 From: gianluca.brunetti at polimi.it (Gian Luca Brunetti) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 19:33:08 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] problem with EPW conversion Message-ID: <4D542F64.5070606@polimi.it> Dear ESP-r users, I am looking for advice for the conversion of some EPW climate files. I am not succeeding in importing some of them which some time ago I had no trouble to convert. Damascus, for example. (With Casablanca, and Algiers, and others). I have tried the instructions at the link https://espr.svn.cvsdude.com/esp-r/trunk/src/climate/README_IWEC with the Linux, Cygwin and Windows ESP-r versions. Also, I verified that I am still able to convert an old Damascus EPW file I saved some times ago. There must be something chanced in the format of the EPW files, but I can't really figure out what is the cause of the problem. Thank you in advance. Regards Gian Luca Brunetti -- dr.arch. Gian Luca Brunetti Politecnico di Milano Dipartimento BEST - Building, Environment, Science and Technology via Bonardi 11 20133 Milano tel./fax +39 0223995750 gianluca.brunetti at polimi.it From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Thu Feb 10 20:35:01 2011 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 20:35:01 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: problem with EPW conversion In-Reply-To: <4D542F64.5070606@polimi.it> References: <4D542F64.5070606@polimi.it> Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA413017D550E8234@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> There were changes to the format of several fields of the EPW file which were detected last year and the current version of ESP-r has been used on many platforms to read in more recent EPW files. Typically no editing is needed of the EPW file prior to import via the clm module with one provision - if you are working on Linux or OSX then you need to convert the DOS line endings in the EPW file to the Unix form prior to use. Older versions of ESP-r will fail when reading the new EPW files. There is a possibility that further (unknown to us) changes have been made in the EPW file format which is causing problems. I suggest passing me one of the problem files so I can have a look. In another climate related issue - some people have reported problems with ESP-r climate files sourced via Meteornom. As far as I can tell the work-around is to export to EPW and then convert to ESP-r format. -Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Gian Luca Brunetti [gianluca.brunetti at polimi.it] Sent: 10 February 2011 18:33 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] problem with EPW conversion Dear ESP-r users, I am looking for advice for the conversion of some EPW climate files. I am not succeeding in importing some of them which some time ago I had no trouble to convert. Damascus, for example. (With Casablanca, and Algiers, and others). I have tried the instructions at the link https://espr.svn.cvsdude.com/esp-r/trunk/src/climate/README_IWEC with the Linux, Cygwin and Windows ESP-r versions. Also, I verified that I am still able to convert an old Damascus EPW file I saved some times ago. There must be something chanced in the format of the EPW files, but I can't really figure out what is the cause of the problem. Thank you in advance. Regards Gian Luca Brunetti -- dr.arch. Gian Luca Brunetti Politecnico di Milano Dipartimento BEST - Building, Environment, Science and Technology via Bonardi 11 20133 Milano tel./fax +39 0223995750 gianluca.brunetti at polimi.it _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From glbrune at polimi.it Fri Feb 11 06:20:44 2011 From: glbrune at polimi.it (glbrune at polimi.it) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 07:20:44 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: problem with EPW conversion In-Reply-To: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA413017D550E8234@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> References: <4D542F64.5070606@polimi.it> <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA413017D550E8234@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> Message-ID: <20110211072044.1173740g3v54ksg0@webmail.polimi.it> Thank you very much. I am about to send you the files. Regards Gian Luca Def. Quota Jon Hand : > There were changes to the format of several fields of the EPW file which > were detected last year and the current version of ESP-r has been used > on many platforms to read in more recent EPW files. > > Typically no editing is needed of the EPW file prior to import via > the clm module with one provision - if you are working on Linux or OSX > then you need to convert the DOS line endings in the EPW file to > the Unix form prior to use. > > Older versions of ESP-r will fail when reading the new EPW files. > > There is a possibility that further (unknown to us) changes have been made in > the EPW file format which is causing problems. I suggest passing me one of > the problem files so I can have a look. > > In another climate related issue - some people have reported problems > with ESP-r climate files sourced via Meteornom. As far as I can tell > the work-around is to export to EPW and then convert to ESP-r format. > > -Jon Hand > ________________________________________ > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk > [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Gian Luca Brunetti > [gianluca.brunetti at polimi.it] > Sent: 10 February 2011 18:33 > To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Subject: [esp-r] problem with EPW conversion > > Dear ESP-r users, > I am looking for advice for the conversion of some EPW climate files. > > I am not succeeding in importing some of them which some time ago I had > no trouble to convert. > > Damascus, for example. (With Casablanca, and Algiers, and others). > > I have tried the instructions at the link > https://espr.svn.cvsdude.com/esp-r/trunk/src/climate/README_IWEC with > the Linux, Cygwin and Windows ESP-r versions. Also, I verified that I > am still able to convert an old Damascus EPW file I saved some times ago. > > There must be something chanced in the format of the EPW files, but I > can't really figure out what is the cause of the problem. > > Thank you in advance. > > Regards > > Gian Luca Brunetti > > > -- > dr.arch. Gian Luca Brunetti > Politecnico di Milano > Dipartimento BEST - > Building, Environment, Science and Technology > via Bonardi 11 > 20133 Milano > tel./fax +39 0223995750 > gianluca.brunetti at polimi.it > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. From jmazo at unizar.es Fri Feb 11 10:47:36 2011 From: jmazo at unizar.es (jmazo at unizar.es) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 11:47:36 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] radiant floor model in ESP-r Message-ID: <20110211114736.cfwtw3kvs4oc4w4o@webmail.unizar.es> Dear Sir or Madam, I am Javier Mazo, a PhD student at the University of Zaragoza (Spain). My research work is focused in the study of Phase Change Materials in buildings. I am interested in the simulation of the performance of these phase change materials in thermally activated building systems such as a radiant floor. I am very interested in using ESP-r becouse it enables the simulation of PCM, treated as special materials. I would like to know if it is possible to simulate in ESP-r a radiant floor with PCM. I also would like to know some features of the radiant floor model that is used in ESP-r such as: -Numerical aproach, is it based in the finite difference method?, or does it use other methods like RC-models of transfer function models? -Does it take into account the bidimensional efect of heat conduction in the radiant floor slab? Thank you very much for your attention. I am looking forward to your answer. Regards, Javier Javier Mazo Olarte ?rea de M?quinas y Motores T?rmicos, Departamento de Ingenier?a Mec?nica Universidad de Zaragoza Edificio Agust?n Betancourt. C/Mar?a de Luna s/n, 50018, Zaragoza, Espa?a GITSE,Grupo de Ingenier?a T?rmica y Sistemas Energ?ticos I3A, Instituto de Investigaci?n en Ingenier?a de Arag?n http://i3a.unizar.es Tel: +34 976 761 000 ext: 5258 Fax: +34 976 762 616 M?vil: +34 669 551 952 e-mail: jmazo at unizar.es From achim.geissler at intergga.ch Fri Feb 11 11:17:59 2011 From: achim.geissler at intergga.ch (Achim.geissler) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 12:17:59 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: radiant floor model in ESP-r Message-ID: <6cc679e4b8e389c25b0088e33149c30d@212.203.77.242> Dear Javier ? below some answers and comments. ? > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r- > bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] Im Auftrag von jmazo at unizar.es > Gesendet: Freitag, 11. Februar 2011 11:48 > An: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Betreff: [esp-r] radiant floor model in ESP-r > > Dear Sir or Madam, > I am Javier Mazo, a PhD student at the University of Zaragoza (Spain). > My research work is focused in the study of Phase Change Materials in > buildings. I am interested in the simulation of the performance of > these phase change materials in thermally activated building systems > such as a radiant floor. > I am very interested in using ESP-r becouse it enables the simulation > of PCM, treated as special materials. I would like to know if it is > possible to simulate in ESP-r a radiant floor with PCM. ? Yes, this is surely possible. There are two basic approaches to model radiant floors (or other surfaces). a) There is a model "radiant heat injection" for combination with a plant b) you can define a thin zone and control this to the desired temperature and thus generate a radiant surface in adjacent zones ? Both approaches should work with the special material PCM. Method b) will work, for sure. ? > I also would like to know some features of the radiant floor model > that is used in ESP-r such as: > -Numerical aproach, is it based in the finite difference method?, or > does it use other methods like RC-models of transfer function models? ? Generally, ESP-r uses finite difference methods, not transfer function models. For the "radiant heat injection" I am not sure as to the exact approach, however. But, as the source code is available, you can easily check and know for sure what approach is used. ? > -Does it take into account the bidimensional efect of heat conduction > in the radiant floor slab? ? No. However, there is a "3d" possibility hidden in the ESP-r code (designed, as far as I am aware, for direct modelling of thermal bridges where two surfaces meet, using a finite element approach). If this can be used for your needs I do not know, though. ? >Thank you very much for your attention. I am looking forward to your >answer. >Regards, >Javier _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk (mailto:esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk" class="autolink) http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r (http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r" target="_blank" class="autolink) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110211/c0aa0f8f/attachment-0001.html From felipe at b-green.cl Sat Feb 12 19:21:11 2011 From: felipe at b-green.cl (=?utf-8?Q?Felipe_Dur=C3=A1n?=) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 16:21:11 -0300 Subject: [esp-r] Surface from existing vertices Message-ID: <332CA741-6975-4322-9E47-FEAC06F12BF9@b-green.cl> Dear All, I am trying to generate a surface from existing vertices and the software crashes. Does anybody has experience that problem? Thank you in advance, Felipe Dur?n P. Director de Proyectos Arquitecto PUC, Mphil U. Cambridge LEED AP BD+C From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Sun Feb 13 09:01:39 2011 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 09:01:39 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Surface from existing vertices In-Reply-To: <332CA741-6975-4322-9E47-FEAC06F12BF9@b-green.cl> References: <332CA741-6975-4322-9E47-FEAC06F12BF9@b-green.cl> Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA413017D550E823C@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> What version of ESP-r are you using and what operating system? This sounds like a issue that was noticed last year on native windows versions of ESP-r - there was a debug statement that was causing a fault. This has been fixed in the current version. This can be uploaded to you if you specify which operating system you are using. -Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Felipe Dur?n [felipe at b-green.cl] Sent: 12 February 2011 19:21 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Surface from existing vertices Dear All, I am trying to generate a surface from existing vertices and the software crashes. Does anybody has experience that problem? Thank you in advance, Felipe Dur?n P. Director de Proyectos Arquitecto PUC, Mphil U. Cambridge LEED AP BD+C _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From felipe at b-green.cl Mon Feb 14 12:12:30 2011 From: felipe at b-green.cl (=?utf-8?Q?Felipe_Dur=C3=A1n?=) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 09:12:30 -0300 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Surface from existing vertices In-Reply-To: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA413017D550E823C@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> References: <332CA741-6975-4322-9E47-FEAC06F12BF9@b-green.cl> <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA413017D550E823C@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> Message-ID: <3D82B6EF-ECDE-4CBD-92E6-688A441DDF3F@b-green.cl> I am using the following version: native_windows_gtk_v11_9_gcc3. I am using it on a Windows XP OS. Many thanks, Felipe Dur?n P. Director de Proyectos Arquitecto PUC, Mphil U. Cambridge LEED AP BD+C El 13-02-2011, a las 6:01, Jon Hand escribi?: > > What version of ESP-r are you using and what operating system? > > This sounds like a issue that was noticed last year on native windows versions > of ESP-r - there was a debug statement that was causing a fault. This has > been fixed in the current version. This can be uploaded to you if you > specify which operating system you are using. > > -Jon Hand > ________________________________________ > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Felipe Dur?n [felipe at b-green.cl] > Sent: 12 February 2011 19:21 > To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Subject: [esp-r] Surface from existing vertices > > Dear All, > > I am trying to generate a surface from existing vertices and the software crashes. Does anybody has experience that problem? > > Thank you in advance, > > Felipe Dur?n P. > Director de Proyectos > Arquitecto PUC, Mphil U. Cambridge > LEED AP BD+C > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From kapsalakimaria at gmail.com Wed Feb 16 20:44:12 2011 From: kapsalakimaria at gmail.com (Maria Kapsalaki) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 15:44:12 -0500 Subject: [esp-r] thermal inertia. Message-ID: Hi to everyone, Could someone tell me how i can neglect the effect of thermal inertia using the esp-r?Is there any way of simulating as if there was no thermal inertia effect?Thanks in advance! Best Regards -- Maria Kapsalaki PhD Student, Faculty of Engineering, University of Porto, MIT-Portugal Program -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110216/52ab588e/attachment.html From mford at connect.carleton.ca Wed Feb 16 20:35:25 2011 From: mford at connect.carleton.ca (Michael Ford) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 15:35:25 -0500 (EST) Subject: [esp-r] ESP-r Phase Change Materials Message-ID: <374186826.1297888525641.JavaMail.mford@connect.carleton.ca> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110216/d6d3a278/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Thu Feb 17 00:26:15 2011 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 00:26:15 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: thermal inertia. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA413018BF8BCB4BF@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> ESP-r simulates the building and constructions that you describe to it. If you describe a stone wall then inertia will be a large effect, if you simulate a wall made of a sheet of paper there is very little inertia. Certainly short timesteps would be part of an analysis of a low inertia design (stuff will change quickly). Inertia does seem to be part of what we observe in real buildings so it is a bit curious to imagine a universe where there was no inertia? Is this a theoritical study or a study of an actual material which has a very short time constant? -Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Maria Kapsalaki [kapsalakimaria at gmail.com] Sent: 16 February 2011 20:44 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] thermal inertia. Hi to everyone, Could someone tell me how i can neglect the effect of thermal inertia using the esp-r?Is there any way of simulating as if there was no thermal inertia effect?Thanks in advance! Best Regards -- Maria Kapsalaki PhD Student, Faculty of Engineering, University of Porto, MIT-Portugal Program From manishgti at hotmail.com Thu Feb 17 16:23:10 2011 From: manishgti at hotmail.com (Manish Pudaruth) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 20:23:10 +0400 Subject: [esp-r] help on epw weather file to bin on ESP-r Message-ID: Greetings, I am quite new to ESP-r and am using it for my dissertation for my BSc and i am having trouble opening the weather files (Antananarivo/Cape-town/Johannesburg) on ESP-r. I downloaded them from: http://apps1.eere.energy.gov/buildings/energyplus/cfm/weather_data.cfm This link was obtained from the ESP-r website: http://www.esru.strath.ac.uk/Programs/ESP-r_capabilities/climate.html After downloading the .epw file i tried importing it in the database maintenance menu. I even tried the ".epw to .bin converter" available but that did not create a .bin file in the folder and ESP-r still could not import the weather file correctly. Can anyone help me regarding this matter? Thank you, Manish -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110217/a7b2c567/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Thu Feb 17 20:54:58 2011 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 20:54:58 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: help on epw weather file to bin on ESP-r In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA413018BF8BCB4C8@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> There is a chapter in the ESP-r Cookbook (dec 2010 version) available on the ESP-r download page and publications page which explains how to use the 'clm' module of ESP-r to do the conversion. The email did not mention if there were any warnings or messages seen during your attempt to convert the EPW file. Note the name of the converted file does not necessarily end in .bin (you are asked to confirm the name of the converted file). Also - you did not mention what version of ESP-r you are using or the operating system of your computer. Older versions of ESP-r will not read new versions of the EPW file. -Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Manish Pudaruth [manishgti at hotmail.com] Sent: 17 February 2011 16:23 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] help on epw weather file to bin on ESP-r Greetings, I am quite new to ESP-r and am using it for my dissertation for my BSc and i am having trouble opening the weather files (Antananarivo/Cape-town/Johannesburg) on ESP-r. I downloaded them from: http://apps1.eere.energy.gov/buildings/energyplus/cfm/weather_data.cfm This link was obtained from the ESP-r website: http://www.esru.strath.ac.uk/Programs/ESP-r_capabilities/climate.html After downloading the .epw file i tried importing it in the database maintenance menu. I even tried the ".epw to .bin converter" available but that did not create a .bin file in the folder and ESP-r still could not import the weather file correctly. Can anyone help me regarding this matter? Thank you, Manish From francesco.frontini at polimi.it Thu Feb 17 21:42:41 2011 From: francesco.frontini at polimi.it (Francesco Frontini) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 22:42:41 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: ESP-r Phase Change Materials Message-ID: Dear Michael Ford, are you using a window version or a Linux one? To be sure that ESP-r reads your ?active material? file you should have a line something like that in your .cfg file: *spf PCM.pcm Where ?PCM.pcm? is the name of the file you created with the active material interface (saved in the same folder as you .cfg file). This line (*spf ?) should be normally placed after the line defining the year (*year 2001). Try to check your .cfg file! Best regards Francesco -- Dr. Francesco Frontini, MEng PhD in Buildings Engineering ---------------------------------------- Fraunhofer Institut f?r Solare Energiesysteme ISE Heidenhofstr. 2, 79110 Freiburg, Germany M1:? ? [+39] 333-3097826 M2:? ? [+49] (0)1522-1624691 Phone: [+49] (0)7614588-5358 FAX:?? [+49] (0)7614588-9358 @1: francesco.frontini at ise.fraunhofer.de @2: francesco.frontini at polimi.it ---------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you receive this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. From alaa.hashem at strath.ac.uk Thu Feb 17 23:20:43 2011 From: alaa.hashem at strath.ac.uk (Alaa Al-Mosawi) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 23:20:43 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: ESP-r Phase Change Materials In-Reply-To: <374186826.1297888525641.JavaMail.mford@connect.carleton.ca> References: <374186826.1297888525641.JavaMail.mford@connect.carleton.ca> Message-ID: <46120C758EA2164FAFF5CE25819E89F80130C3B2A68C@E2K7-MS3.ds.strath.ac.uk> Dear Michael, First Question: Does the PCM take over the layer, meaning does it swap out my slate tile properties for the PCM properties? The special material function of ESP-r may be applied to a particular node within a multi-layer construction. Any node defined as a special material is then subjected to a time variation in its basic thermo-physical properties. The phase change temperature regulates the initial thermo-physical properties. The effect of phase transition on the final thermo physical properties is added/extracted by appropriate adjustments to the corresponding general energy balance equation. In other words, throug the simulation the thermo physical properties for the original layer are updated with the new phase change thermo physical ratio in the energy balance equation directly at each time step. Having created this file and run a simulation, there is no difference in the results. Now this could be the properties of the PCM I choose are such that it would make no difference but I believe that the simulation is not using this active materials file at all. When I restart ESP-r and attempt to view or edit my active materials file ESP-r does not have the file name saved and I have to respecify each time. Perhaps its as simple as adding an active materials file path to the cfg file but I do not know what the proper suffix should be. In the absence of the PCM effect, may be the reason because the limits of the phase change temperature are not appropriate to the application? Or through simulation procedures, the ESP-r not found any flag for PCM in the specific layer? Please, give me additional information about the steps that you used to integrate a phase change material in your model? and your ESP-r release number?Copy for your 'cfg file' after updating with PCM? Regards. Alaa Al-Mosawi ESRU From aizaz.a.samuel at strath.ac.uk Fri Feb 18 09:34:00 2011 From: aizaz.a.samuel at strath.ac.uk (Aizaz Samuel) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2011 09:34:00 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: help on epw weather file to bin on ESP-r In-Reply-To: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA413018BF8BCB4C8@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> References: , <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA413018BF8BCB4C8@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> Message-ID: I am actively working with the climate module and can confirm that conversion from epw format takes place seamlessly. I managed to convert the Johannesburg file (attached) while working in the cygwin environment. The following method should work generally as well: 1. unzip the compressed zip file available from E+ site 2. run clm while in that folder 3. make new climate db (all zeros) 4. import from file > epw clm then makes a binary ESP-r climate file I exported that to ascii and am attaching it with this email. -Aizaz ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Jon Hand [jon at esru.strath.ac.uk] Sent: 17 February 2011 20:54 To: Manish Pudaruth; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Re: help on epw weather file to bin on ESP-r There is a chapter in the ESP-r Cookbook (dec 2010 version) available on the ESP-r download page and publications page which explains how to use the 'clm' module of ESP-r to do the conversion. The email did not mention if there were any warnings or messages seen during your attempt to convert the EPW file. Note the name of the converted file does not necessarily end in .bin (you are asked to confirm the name of the converted file). Also - you did not mention what version of ESP-r you are using or the operating system of your computer. Older versions of ESP-r will not read new versions of the EPW file. -Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Manish Pudaruth [manishgti at hotmail.com] Sent: 17 February 2011 16:23 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] help on epw weather file to bin on ESP-r Greetings, I am quite new to ESP-r and am using it for my dissertation for my BSc and i am having trouble opening the weather files (Antananarivo/Cape-town/Johannesburg) on ESP-r. I downloaded them from: http://apps1.eere.energy.gov/buildings/energyplus/cfm/weather_data.cfm This link was obtained from the ESP-r website: http://www.esru.strath.ac.uk/Programs/ESP-r_capabilities/climate.html After downloading the .epw file i tried importing it in the database maintenance menu. I even tried the ".epw to .bin converter" available but that did not create a .bin file in the folder and ESP-r still could not import the weather file correctly. Can anyone help me regarding this matter? Thank you, Manish _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Johannesburg.clm.a.zip Type: application/zip Size: 61629 bytes Desc: Johannesburg.clm.a.zip Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110218/bd9d355c/attachment-0001.zip From l.f.r.peeters at gmail.com Mon Feb 21 09:32:14 2011 From: l.f.r.peeters at gmail.com (leen peeters) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2011 10:32:14 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] install Message-ID: Dear all, after all these years ... I am re-installing Esp; We are trying to use it for a student's project. The laptop is a compaq pressario 64 bit, where Ubunto 10.10 is installed using partition magic. We downloaded the source code through svn checkout http://espr.svn.cvsdude.com/esp-r/trunk And then started the Install script, ending up with the following error message (I included the installation choices): Compiler: (1) Sun fortran 90 (cc and f90) (2) GNU fortran (gcc 3.X and g77) (3) Intel fortran (icc, icpc and ifort) 2 The libxml2 library does not appear to be installed on this system. The library could not be found in /usr/include or /usr/local/include. Support for experimental XML output will be disabled, but the rest of the ESP-r installation will proceed normally. Graphics library: [2] (1) GTK graphics library (2) X11 graphics library (3) no graphics library (text-only application) 2 ESP-r can optionally retain debugging symbols and object files for use with a debugging program such as GDB. Retain debugging symbols? (y/n) [n] n Install ESP-r database files? (y/n) [y] y Install training files? (y/n) [y] y ERROR: The X-window libraries were found at /usr, but the X11 header files (e.g. X.h) could not be found at /usr/include/X11. This may indicate that you're missing the X11 header files necessary to compile the X11 version of ESP-r. Check to see if you've installed the X11 development package (usually called xfree86-devel, xorg-X11-devel, or libX11-devel.) Any help is greatly appreciated Leen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110221/7161ac9b/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Mon Feb 21 10:32:31 2011 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2011 10:32:31 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: install In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA413018BF8BCB4D8@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> In the source distribution of the current development branch the manual/OS/Linux has guidance. I attach this file to simplify things. It relates to 9.04 but should be mostly correct for newer versions. And I suggest that you do not bother with the trunk. Check out the development_branch. It works better on 64 bit. But for some tasks 32bit is still more robust. The messages includes indicate that you need to use the package manager in Ubuntu to gather further packages. Most of the details are found in the attached file. Regards, Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of leen peeters [l.f.r.peeters at gmail.com] Sent: 21 February 2011 09:32 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Cc: wdekoste at vub.ac.be Subject: [esp-r] install Dear all, after all these years ... I am re-installing Esp; We are trying to use it for a student's project. The laptop is a compaq pressario 64 bit, where Ubunto 10.10 is installed using partition magic. We downloaded the source code through svn checkout http://espr.svn.cvsdude.com/esp-r/trunk And then started the Install script, ending up with the following error message (I included the installation choices): Compiler: (1) Sun fortran 90 (cc and f90) (2) GNU fortran (gcc 3.X and g77) (3) Intel fortran (icc, icpc and ifort) 2 The libxml2 library does not appear to be installed on this system. The library could not be found in /usr/include or /usr/local/include. Support for experimental XML output will be disabled, but the rest of the ESP-r installation will proceed normally. Graphics library: [2] (1) GTK graphics library (2) X11 graphics library (3) no graphics library (text-only application) 2 ESP-r can optionally retain debugging symbols and object files for use with a debugging program such as GDB. Retain debugging symbols? (y/n) [n] n Install ESP-r database files? (y/n) [y] y Install training files? (y/n) [y] y ERROR: The X-window libraries were found at /usr, but the X11 header files (e.g. X.h) could not be found at /usr/include/X11. This may indicate that you're missing the X11 header files necessary to compile the X11 version of ESP-r. Check to see if you've installed the X11 development package (usually called xfree86-devel, xorg-X11-devel, or libX11-devel.) Any help is greatly appreciated Leen -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Ubuntu_9.04for_esp-r.rtf Type: text/rtf Size: 21376 bytes Desc: Ubuntu_9.04for_esp-r.rtf Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110221/88fda341/attachment-0001.bin From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Wed Feb 23 02:08:53 2011 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2011 02:08:53 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Sketchup plug in for ESP-r - is there one out there somewhere?? Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA413018BF9FECFEB@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> I remember months or years ago there was a message about a Sketchup plugin for ESP-r (probably a collection of Ruby code). Anyone remember this? Anyone know: a) where b)what it is c) how to use it d) where the source is? If it exists - anyone interested in working on it so that there is another option for interacting with ESP-r? Regards, Jon Hand From Phylroy.Lopez at NRCan-RNCan.gc.ca Wed Feb 23 04:26:50 2011 From: Phylroy.Lopez at NRCan-RNCan.gc.ca (Lopez, Phylroy) Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 23:26:50 -0500 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Sketchup plug in for ESP-r - is there one out there somewhere?? In-Reply-To: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA413018BF9FECFEB@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> References: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA413018BF9FECFEB@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> Message-ID: Yes, I wrote a ruby script that leveraged the Openstudio/Energyplus plug in code to view ESP-r geometries and zoning, I wrote it when I was snowed in a few years back, and took all of two days. I passed the code to Iain MacDonald for some validation work that I was doing. I think he may have made some improvements to it. It was very simple to use, but it was one-way transform of geometry to SU, but two-way would not be much more work. Jeff Blake mentioned to me that he was working on a new Skecthup plug-in viewer. I am not sure if his plan was to write it from scratch or leverage the Openstudio libraries. Phylroy -----Original Message----- From: Jon Hand [mailto:jon at esru.strath.ac.uk] Sent: February 22, 2011 21:09 To: Ferguson, Alex; core_developers at espr.list.cvsdude.com; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: Sketchup plug in for ESP-r - is there one out there somewhere?? I remember months or years ago there was a message about a Sketchup plugin for ESP-r (probably a collection of Ruby code). Anyone remember this? Anyone know: a) where b)what it is c) how to use it d) where the source is? If it exists - anyone interested in working on it so that there is another option for interacting with ESP-r? Regards, Jon Hand From g.sigalas at student.tue.nl Wed Feb 23 12:28:29 2011 From: g.sigalas at student.tue.nl (Sigalas, G.) Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2011 13:28:29 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Question on optical database Message-ID: <5943B726A91E9B428D2A613E5900508C69B146A884@EXCHANGE13.campus.tue.nl> Dear esp-r users, I have a question regarding the optical database of esp-r. If I open one of the exemplar models (e.g. basic 1 zone with convective heating & basic control), I have a model that uses external double glazing construction ''dbl_glz''. >From the database maintenance-> Constructions db -> dbl_glz I can see that my construction has an optical property ''DCF7671_06nb'' Surprisingly this optical property is not in the optical database ''optics.db2''. The only optical properties available are S properties (''SC_8985'' up to ''SAZ5060''). However, the simulation can be performed normally, even though the construction and optical properties do not match. The weird thing is that if I go to the ''surface attributes'' and change the current glazing construction dbl_glz but select the same construction again, then I get an error message (Optics in geo file do not match etc....). Even though I use the same construction as before. In the esp-r database folder there are two optical properties databases, db1 and db2. In db1 there are only S properties and in db2 there are all the properties (S and D). Strangely, even though in the esp-r menu the optical database is ''optics.db2'', the values are the one from db1 (only S properties)! If I change the optical database to db2 the simulation can be run without errors. My question is how can the initial simulation be run with different construction and optical properties and why in esp-r I see only S optical properties since in optics.db2 there are S and D properties? I am using esp-r 11.9 through cygwin in windows 7 32bit. Thank you, Georgios Sigalas -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110223/eda4cdeb/attachment.html From sbucking at gmail.com Wed Feb 23 13:08:16 2011 From: sbucking at gmail.com (Scott Bucking) Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2011 08:08:16 -0500 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Sketchup plug in for ESP-r - is there one out there somewhere?? In-Reply-To: References: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA413018BF9FECFEB@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> Message-ID: Hi All, Just a quick comment. Rather than going Sketchup to/from ESP-r directly why not focus on converting e+ files to ESP-r files and skip the added effort to integrate/maintain the code in OpenStudio? I think this is a project that looks like it's quick to implement at first, but after all the time it would take to integrate properly into OpenStudio's API (abstraction layer/interfaces/etc), on-going testing and code maintenance (keeping in mind that the OpenStudio codebase changes quickly), it might be easier if we were to hand the OpenStudio development team an isolated script with bi-directional geometry/material conversion (espr from/to e+) and add it as a menu option in OpenStudio. I know Jon has actively been persuing this already (at least one direction, albeit for an older version of e+) and it would have additional uses in PRJ. Conversion would then be: ESP-r -> E+ -> Sketch-Up or Sketch-up -> E+ -> ESP-r My two cents, Scott On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 11:26 PM, Lopez, Phylroy < Phylroy.Lopez at nrcan-rncan.gc.ca> wrote: > Yes, > > I wrote a ruby script that leveraged the Openstudio/Energyplus plug in > code to view ESP-r geometries and zoning, I wrote it when I was snowed > in a few years back, and took all of two days. I passed the code to Iain > MacDonald for some validation work that I was doing. I think he may have > made some improvements to it. It was very simple to use, but it was > one-way transform of geometry to SU, but two-way would not be much more > work. > > Jeff Blake mentioned to me that he was working on a new Skecthup plug-in > viewer. I am not sure if his plan was to write it from scratch or > leverage the Openstudio libraries. > > > Phylroy > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jon Hand [mailto:jon at esru.strath.ac.uk] > Sent: February 22, 2011 21:09 > To: Ferguson, Alex; core_developers at espr.list.cvsdude.com; > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Subject: Sketchup plug in for ESP-r - is there one out there somewhere?? > > > I remember months or years ago there was a message about a Sketchup > plugin for ESP-r (probably a collection of Ruby code). > > Anyone remember this? > > Anyone know: > a) where > b)what it is > c) how to use it > d) where the source is? > > If it exists - anyone interested in working on it so that there is > another option for interacting with ESP-r? > > Regards, Jon Hand > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110223/c58f4c0f/attachment.html From ptavares at mail.isec.pt Wed Feb 23 16:24:01 2011 From: ptavares at mail.isec.pt (Paulo Tavares) Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2011 16:24:01 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Resultant temperature Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20110223161945.017edc68@pop.isec.pt> Good afternoon. I have a doubt: what is the difference between the ambient (db )temperature of a zone and the resultant temperature of the same zone? How is calculated the resultant temperature? If there is a place where it is explained please tell me. Thanks in advance for your help. Regards, Paulo Tavares From francesco.frontini at polimi.it Wed Feb 23 18:32:42 2011 From: francesco.frontini at polimi.it (Francesco Frontini) Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2011 19:32:42 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Resultant temperature Message-ID: Hi Paulo, you can find for sure more information on the ESRU site. Nevertheless to answer shortly to your request: The db temperature is the Dry Bulb Temperature of the zone. The resultant temperature (or operative temperature) is the average between the dry bulb temperature and the area weighted mean radiant temperature in the middle of the zone. Regards Francesco -- Dr. Francesco Frontini, MEng PhD in Buildings Engineering ---------------------------------------- Fraunhofer Institut f?r Solare Energiesysteme ISE Heidenhofstr. 2, 79110 Freiburg, Germany M1:? ? [+39] 333-3097826 M2:? ? [+49] (0)1522-1624691 Phone: [+49] (0)7614588-5358 FAX:?? [+49] (0)7614588-9358 @1: francesco.frontini at ise.fraunhofer.de @2: francesco.frontini at polimi.it ---------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you receive this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Wed Feb 23 21:54:40 2011 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2011 21:54:40 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Question on optical database In-Reply-To: <5943B726A91E9B428D2A613E5900508C69B146A884@EXCHANGE13.campus.tue.nl> References: <5943B726A91E9B428D2A613E5900508C69B146A884@EXCHANGE13.campus.tue.nl> Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA413018BF9FECFED@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> I suspect you have a corrupted optics.db1. The standard version has many more sets of optics. Really the only difference between optics.db1 and optics.db2 is additional documentation and more decimal places in the data. Models should be using optics.db2 rather than optics.db1. There was a recent patch made to ESP-r related to the not-matching optics warning. The code is a bit smarter now. A model might simulate (not blow up) but that does not necessarily mean that the predictions are correct. The simulator is designed to scan the model zone construction and tmc files and use the information in those files so it is not particularly dependent on the databases existing. If you change the model and update the zone construction and tmc files then the database information will be scanned and at that point problems in the databases might impact your model. -Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Sigalas, G. [g.sigalas at student.tue.nl] Sent: 23 February 2011 12:28 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Question on optical database Dear esp-r users, I have a question regarding the optical database of esp-r. If I open one of the exemplar models (e.g. basic 1 zone with convective heating & basic control), I have a model that uses external double glazing construction ??dbl_glz??. >From the database maintenance-> Constructions db -> dbl_glz I can see that my construction has an optical property ??DCF7671_06nb?? Surprisingly this optical property is not in the optical database ??optics.db2??. The only optical properties available are S properties (??SC_8985?? up to ??SAZ5060??). However, the simulation can be performed normally, even though the construction and optical properties do not match. The weird thing is that if I go to the ??surface attributes?? and change the current glazing construction dbl_glz but select the same construction again, then I get an error message (Optics in geo file do not match etc?.). Even though I use the same construction as before. In the esp-r database folder there are two optical properties databases, db1 and db2. In db1 there are only S properties and in db2 there are all the properties (S and D). Strangely, even though in the esp-r menu the optical database is ??optics.db2??, the values are the one from db1 (only S properties)! If I change the optical database to db2 the simulation can be run without errors. My question is how can the initial simulation be run with different construction and optical properties and why in esp-r I see only S optical properties since in optics.db2 there are S and D properties? I am using esp-r 11.9 through cygwin in windows 7 32bit. Thank you, Georgios Sigalas From kapsalakimaria at gmail.com Wed Feb 23 18:20:29 2011 From: kapsalakimaria at gmail.com (Maria Kapsalaki) Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2011 13:20:29 -0500 Subject: [esp-r] optics in geo file does not match optics in MLC Message-ID: Dear All, I am trying to run a model in esp-r but the simulation keeps crashing.I have created a new database for the constructions and a new database for the optics.When i define my surface attributes i get the following error: optics in geo file does not match optics in MLC.Can anyone help me with that? Best Regards -- Maria Kapsalaki PhD Student, Faculty of Engineering, University of Porto, MIT-Portugal Program -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110223/7490884d/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Thu Feb 24 21:51:36 2011 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 21:51:36 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: optics in geo file does not match optics in MLC In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA413018BF9FECFF0@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> That warning might or might not be the cause of the simulation crash. We revised the logic recently to be a bit smarter when checking the match between construction and optics. You might have a version which was made prior to that improvement. What version of ESP-r? What computer operating system? Were there any warnings in the project manager when going into the simulation menu? Were there any warnings in the simulator prior to the crash? At what point did the simulation stop (what was the last thing that you saw). Have you generated a model QA report and looked in that report for errors? About the constructions and optics - how many layers are in the construction and how many layers are in the optical set? These are reported in the model QA report. If they match in the report then the cause of the crash might be something else. -Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Maria Kapsalaki [kapsalakimaria at gmail.com] Sent: 23 February 2011 18:20 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] optics in geo file does not match optics in MLC Dear All, I am trying to run a model in esp-r but the simulation keeps crashing.I have created a new database for the constructions and a new database for the optics.When i define my surface attributes i get the following error: optics in geo file does not match optics in MLC.Can anyone help me with that? Best Regards -- Maria Kapsalaki PhD Student, Faculty of Engineering, University of Porto, MIT-Portugal Program From simsera1110 at gmail.com Fri Feb 25 07:21:24 2011 From: simsera1110 at gmail.com (simsera1110) Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 16:21:24 +0900 Subject: [esp-r] [ESP-r] gaps for window Message-ID: Dear. all I made some databases in Gaps to create window construction with W6 library. I typed conductivity and specific heat and density, thickness of air. and then, I composed "window system " in Construction. but whenever I click the "Air" in Gaps option, it doesn't be respected like below...(yellow part) (U-value of double glazing is same with single glazing one) How do i make gas database for window system ? I want to make Krypton and Argon database, too. *?* ** *Details of transparent construction: 6_doubleCLai with doubleAirCL optics. Layer|Prim|Thick |Conduc-|Density|Specif|IR |Solr|Diffu| R |Descr |db |(mm) |tivity | |heat |emis|abs |resis|m^2K/W Ext 252 6.0 1.022 2500. 750. 0.84 0.12 19200. 0.01 6mm CL_sim : 6mm CLEAR glass simsera ** 2 -99 12.0 1.022 2500. 750. 0.84 0.12 19200. 0.01 6mm CL_sim : 6mm CLEAR glass simsera Int 252 6.0 1.022 2500. 750. 0.84 0.12 19200. 0.01 6mm CL_sim : 6mm CLEAR glass simsera ISO 6946 U values (horiz/upward/downward heat flow)= 5.168 6.117 4.283 (partition) 3.528 * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110225/5c87c21f/attachment.html From achim.geissler at intergga.ch Fri Feb 25 20:47:25 2011 From: achim.geissler at intergga.ch (Achim Geissler) Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 21:47:25 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: [ESP-r] gaps for window In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7FB69408-1516-4FE3-B937-7573E31B3BCC@intergga.ch> Dear Simsera with standard TMC constructions in ESP-r you do not need (or, better, you cannot define) "Air", "Krypton" or "Argon". The U-value of a TMC is adjusted by setting the resistance of the air layer (material type "0"). As an alternative, you can use CFC constructions. For this, you need to download the GSLEdit program from the ESRU homepage. With this additional software you can set up IGUs similar to the Window program (IGDB data is available). Also, here the gas filling of the IGU must be chosen to needs and the U-value is calculated at run time and is not a constant value. Best Achim On Feb 25, 2011, at 8:21 AM, simsera1110 wrote: > Dear. all > > I made some databases in Gaps to create window construction with W6 library. > > I typed conductivity and specific heat and density, thickness of air. > > and then, I composed "window system " in Construction. > > but whenever I click the "Air" in Gaps option, it doesn't be respected like below...(yellow part) > (U-value of double glazing is same with single glazing one) > > How do i make gas database for window system ? > > I want to make Krypton and Argon database, too. > > > > ? > > Details of transparent construction: 6_doubleCLai with doubleAirCL optics. > > Layer|Prim|Thick |Conduc-|Density|Specif|IR |Solr|Diffu| R |Descr > |db |(mm) |tivity | |heat |emis|abs |resis|m^2K/W > Ext 252 6.0 1.022 2500. 750. 0.84 0.12 19200. 0.01 6mm CL_sim : 6mm CLEAR glass simsera > 2 -99 12.0 1.022 2500. 750. 0.84 0.12 19200. 0.01 6mm CL_sim : 6mm CLEAR glass simsera > Int 252 6.0 1.022 2500. 750. 0.84 0.12 19200. 0.01 6mm CL_sim : 6mm CLEAR glass simsera > ISO 6946 U values (horiz/upward/downward heat flow)= 5.168 6.117 4.283 (partition) 3.528 > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r achim.geissler at intergga.ch -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110225/67820431/attachment.html From simsera1110 at gmail.com Sat Feb 26 06:36:13 2011 From: simsera1110 at gmail.com (simsera1110) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 15:36:13 +0900 Subject: [esp-r] Re: [ESP-r] gaps for window In-Reply-To: <7FB69408-1516-4FE3-B937-7573E31B3BCC@intergga.ch> References: <7FB69408-1516-4FE3-B937-7573E31B3BCC@intergga.ch> Message-ID: Thank you for your advice and I have more questions about it. I downloaded GSLEdit program as you said and make window glazing with argon and krypton in this simulation. And it was stored to ESP-r Output file format. and then.. how are the GSL files that i made in GSLedit brought to esp-r? and i don't know how to make or use CFC constructions. On 2/26/11, Achim Geissler wrote: > Dear Simsera > > with standard TMC constructions in ESP-r you do not need (or, better, you > cannot define) "Air", "Krypton" or "Argon". The U-value of a TMC is adjusted > by setting the resistance of the air layer (material type "0"). As an > alternative, you can use CFC constructions. For this, you need to download > the GSLEdit program from the ESRU homepage. With this additional software > you can set up IGUs similar to the Window program (IGDB data is available). > Also, here the gas filling of the IGU must be chosen to needs and the > U-value is calculated at run time and is not a constant value. > > Best > Achim > > > On Feb 25, 2011, at 8:21 AM, simsera1110 wrote: > >> Dear. all >> >> I made some databases in Gaps to create window construction with W6 >> library. >> >> I typed conductivity and specific heat and density, thickness of air. >> >> and then, I composed "window system " in Construction. >> >> but whenever I click the "Air" in Gaps option, it doesn't be respected >> like below...(yellow part) >> (U-value of double glazing is same with single glazing one) >> >> How do i make gas database for window system ? >> >> I want to make Krypton and Argon database, too. >> >> >> >> ? >> >> Details of transparent construction: 6_doubleCLai with doubleAirCL >> optics. >> >> >> Layer|Prim|Thick |Conduc-|Density|Specif|IR |Solr|Diffu| R |Descr >> >> |db |(mm) |tivity | |heat |emis|abs |resis|m^2K/W >> >> Ext 252 6.0 1.022 2500. 750. 0.84 0.12 19200. 0.01 6mm >> CL_sim : 6mm CLEAR glass simsera >> 2 -99 12.0 1.022 2500. 750. 0.84 0.12 19200. 0.01 6mm >> CL_sim : 6mm CLEAR glass simsera >> Int 252 6.0 1.022 2500. 750. 0.84 0.12 19200. 0.01 6mm >> CL_sim : 6mm CLEAR glass simsera >> ISO 6946 U values (horiz/upward/downward heat flow)= 5.168 6.117 4.283 >> (partition) 3.528 >> _______________________________________________ >> esp-r mailing list >> esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk >> http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > > achim.geissler at intergga.ch > > > > > From achim.geissler at intergga.ch Sat Feb 26 15:26:04 2011 From: achim.geissler at intergga.ch (Achim Geissler) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 16:26:04 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: [ESP-r] gaps for window In-Reply-To: References: <7FB69408-1516-4FE3-B937-7573E31B3BCC@intergga.ch> Message-ID: Dear Simsera the next step (sorry for omitting it in my first reply) would be to set up a MLC in the database with type "GSLEdit" (instead of "OPAQ" or "TRAN"). If you then define a surface in your model to be of this MLC type, you will be promted to enter the GSLEdit output file and ESP-r will generate a file "zone.cfc". Then you are ready to run the simulation using the CFC type surface. I strongly recommend downloading Bart Lomanowski's Thesis (uwspace.uwaterloo.ca/bitstream/10012/4164/1/Lomanowski_Bartosz.pdf) - he is the developer of the CFC code and gives a detailed description of their functionality and usage. Best Achim On Feb 26, 2011, at 7:36 AM, simsera1110 wrote: > Thank you for your advice and I have more questions about it. > > I downloaded GSLEdit program as you said and make window glazing with > argon and krypton in this simulation. And it was stored to ESP-r > Output file format. > and then.. > how are the GSL files that i made in GSLedit brought to esp-r? > and i don't know how to make or use CFC constructions. > > > > On 2/26/11, Achim Geissler wrote: >> Dear Simsera >> >> with standard TMC constructions in ESP-r you do not need (or, better, you >> cannot define) "Air", "Krypton" or "Argon". The U-value of a TMC is adjusted >> by setting the resistance of the air layer (material type "0"). As an >> alternative, you can use CFC constructions. For this, you need to download >> the GSLEdit program from the ESRU homepage. With this additional software >> you can set up IGUs similar to the Window program (IGDB data is available). >> Also, here the gas filling of the IGU must be chosen to needs and the >> U-value is calculated at run time and is not a constant value. >> >> Best >> Achim >> >> >> On Feb 25, 2011, at 8:21 AM, simsera1110 wrote: >> >>> Dear. all >>> >>> I made some databases in Gaps to create window construction with W6 >>> library. >>> >>> I typed conductivity and specific heat and density, thickness of air. >>> >>> and then, I composed "window system " in Construction. >>> >>> but whenever I click the "Air" in Gaps option, it doesn't be respected >>> like below...(yellow part) >>> (U-value of double glazing is same with single glazing one) >>> >>> How do i make gas database for window system ? >>> >>> I want to make Krypton and Argon database, too. >>> >>> >>> >>> ? >>> >>> Details of transparent construction: 6_doubleCLai with doubleAirCL >>> optics. >>> >>> >>> Layer|Prim|Thick |Conduc-|Density|Specif|IR |Solr|Diffu| R |Descr >>> >>> |db |(mm) |tivity | |heat |emis|abs |resis|m^2K/W >>> >>> Ext 252 6.0 1.022 2500. 750. 0.84 0.12 19200. 0.01 6mm >>> CL_sim : 6mm CLEAR glass simsera >>> 2 -99 12.0 1.022 2500. 750. 0.84 0.12 19200. 0.01 6mm >>> CL_sim : 6mm CLEAR glass simsera >>> Int 252 6.0 1.022 2500. 750. 0.84 0.12 19200. 0.01 6mm >>> CL_sim : 6mm CLEAR glass simsera >>> ISO 6946 U values (horiz/upward/downward heat flow)= 5.168 6.117 4.283 >>> (partition) 3.528 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> esp-r mailing list >>> esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk >>> http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r >> >> achim.geissler at intergga.ch >> >> >> >> >> > achim.geissler at intergga.ch -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110226/9ff0bd1d/attachment-0001.html From achim.geissler at intergga.ch Tue Mar 1 14:25:47 2011 From: achim.geissler at intergga.ch (Achim.geissler) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2011 15:25:47 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Initialise humidity in zones Message-ID: <7a1fb497fe2a5e58170ad206ec8c770f@212.203.77.242> Dear all we have a zone which is connected to an air flow network, however, leakage rates are designedly small. We are monitoring zone humidity. I was unable to find out how to give the zone of interest a defined intial humidity content. Can anyone help out? Thank you very much. Best Achim -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110301/08763e9d/attachment.html From francesco.frontini at polimi.it Fri Mar 4 08:19:52 2011 From: francesco.frontini at polimi.it (Francesco Frontini) Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 09:19:52 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Global irradiation on surface Message-ID: Dear all, is there any possibility to get from ESP the global irradiation incident an external surface as results. For sure is calculated somewhere, but I never found where it is in the result manager. I normally calculate the incident radiation externally with radiance, but would be nice to have it in the result file of ESP-r. Thank you very much in advance for your answers. Francesco -- Dr. Francesco Frontini, MEng PhD in Buildings Engineering ---------------------------------------- Fraunhofer Institut f?r Solare Energiesysteme ISE Heidenhofstr. 2, 79110 Freiburg, Germany M1:? ? [+39] 333-3097826 M2:? ? [+49] (0)1522-1624691 Phone: [+49] (0)7614588-5358 FAX:?? [+49] (0)7614588-9358 @1: francesco.frontini at ise.fraunhofer.de @2: francesco.frontini at polimi.it ---------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you receive this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. From achim.geissler at intergga.ch Fri Mar 4 13:18:52 2011 From: achim.geissler at intergga.ch (Achim.geissler) Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 14:18:52 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Global irradiation on surface Message-ID: Dear Francesco if I understand you correctly, the res output "surface fluxes:sw rad incid (other fc)" should be what you are looking for. I usually define a small (0.1 x 0.1 m2) surface with abs=0.999 as "sensor" and then use "surface fluxes:sw rad abs (other fc)", though. But as far as I recall this is because the "incid" has some kind of obscure limitation. There should actually be older threads in the archive on this question. Have a nice Weekend. Best Achim --------- Original-Nachricht -------- Von: "Francesco Frontini" An: "esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk" Betreff: [esp-r] Global irradiation on surface Datum: 04/03/11 09:21 Dear all, is there any possibility to get from ESP the global irradiation incident an external surface as results. For sure is calculated somewhere, but I never found where it is in the result manager. I normally calculate the incident radiation externally with radiance, but would be nice to have it in the result file of ESP-r. Thank you very much in advance for your answers. Francesco -- Dr. Francesco Frontini, MEng PhD in Buildings Engineering ---------------------------------------- Fraunhofer Institut f?r Solare Energiesysteme ISE Heidenhofstr. 2, 79110 Freiburg, Germany M1:? ? [+39] 333-3097826 M2:? ? [+49] (0)1522-1624691 Phone: [+49] (0)7614588-5358 FAX:?? [+49] (0)7614588-9358 @1: francesco.frontini at ise.fraunhofer.de (mailto:francesco.frontini at ise.fraunhofer.de" class="autolink) @2: francesco.frontini at polimi.it (mailto:francesco.frontini at polimi.it" class="autolink) ---------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you receive this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk (mailto:esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk" class="autolink) http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r (http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r" target="_blank" class="autolink) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110304/b86d9987/attachment.html From manzan at units.it Mon Mar 7 13:26:19 2011 From: manzan at units.it (Marco Manzan) Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 14:26:19 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Global irradiation on surface (Francesco Frontini) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <201103071426.19782.manzan@units.it> Alle venerd? 4 marzo 2011, esp-r-request at lists.strath.ac.uk ha scritto: > Send esp-r mailing list submissions to > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > esp-r-request at lists.strath.ac.uk > > You can reach the person managing the list at > esp-r-owner at lists.strath.ac.uk > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of esp-r digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Global irradiation on surface (Francesco Frontini) > 2. Re: Global irradiation on surface (Achim.geissler) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 09:19:52 +0100 > From: Francesco Frontini > Subject: [esp-r] Global irradiation on surface > To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Dear all, > is there any possibility to get from ESP the global irradiation > incident an external surface as results. For sure is calculated > somewhere, but I never found where it is in the result manager. > I normally calculate the incident radiation externally with radiance, > but would be nice to have it in the result file of ESP-r. > Thank you very much in advance for your answers. > > Francesco ciao Francesco you can get this value as "surface fluxes:sw rad incid (other fc)" but it is only available for opaque surfaces. If you have a fenestration you can obtain it by plotting the same value for an opaque surface having the same exposition. Marco -- _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ |Marco Manzan Email: manzan at units.it | |Tel: (+39) 040 5583506 Fax : (+39) 040 572033 | |Dipartimento di Ingegneria Meccanica e Navale | |Universita' degli Studi di Trieste | |via A. Valerio 10, 34127 TRIESTE | |_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _| From tanabe at waseda.jp Thu Mar 10 06:56:38 2011 From: tanabe at waseda.jp (Shin-ichi Tanabe) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 15:56:38 +0900 Subject: [esp-r] Re: radiant and convective split for occupants In-Reply-To: <4D07DEAF.480F.001C.0@inet.polyu.edu.hk> References: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA4130177E98EBF85@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> <4D07DEAF.480F.001C.0@inet.polyu.edu.hk> Message-ID: <000a01cbdef0$4e0f3d50$ea2db7f0$@waseda.jp> Dear Jian-lei Niu: It takes a long time to reply. I found a paper related this issue. It was old and no-pdf version, so I scanned. Angle factor of student seems 2-11% in the class room. Best regards ----------------------- Shin-ichi Tanabe, Professor, Ph.D, FASHRAE President of the ISIAQ Academy of Fellows Department of Architecture, Waseda University 3-4-1 Okubo, Shinjyuku-ku Tokyo 169-8555 Japan Tel +81-3-5292-5083 Fax +81-3-5292-5084 -----Original Message----- From: Jian-lei Niu [BSE] [mailto:bejlniu at inet.polyu.edu.hk] Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2010 10:17 PM To: Jon Hand; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Cc: tanabe at waseda.jp Subject: Re: [esp-r] radiant and convective split for occupants Dear Jon, I came to realize the limited data available sometime ago, when we wish to model the radiant distribution from students in a classroom. We had postulated that in case of stratified air distribution, this radiant distribution affects the actual space cooling load more than in the well mixed ventilation systems. We tested with a direct radiation modeling method available in many CFD package, which was only roughly described in the paper. Xu H.T, Gao NP , and JL Niu, "A method to generate effective cooling load factors for stratified air distribution systems using floor level air supply", International Journal of HVACR Research, vol. 15, no. 5, 915-930, Sept. 2009 But it seems to me that a simplified engineering calculation method for densely populated space is lacking. There are a few studies about the radiant heat from a single human body, including the famous Fanger model included in ASHRAE handbook, which I guess is familiar to you, and some studies from Japan, by Prof. Tanabe, and Nakano etc. I wiould like to hear more about this from this community as well. Regards Jianlei Niu >>> Jon Hand 12/14/2010 5:22 PM >>> I am updating some documentation about occupants in buildings related to the radiant and convective split of sensible gains and I find that there are a number of exemplar models that simply default to 50% radiant. If I look at the exemplar models that come with EnergyPlus I see most of them are setting the radiant fraction of occupants to 30% and at least one paper mentioned 40%. A Google search comes up with suggestions for what the sensible is but mentions of how it is distributed seem to be well hidden. In densely populated spaces this must have an impact. Does anyone have some or know about ... a) opinions that they would like to share b) some references that discuss this c) some papers that talk about it Regards, Jon Hand _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r The Hong Kong Polytechnic University WHERE INNOVATION MEETS APPLICATION -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: INDOOR AIR'96-radiation.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 566532 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110310/ca1cd0de/attachment-0001.pdf From paul at esru.strath.ac.uk Tue Mar 15 15:01:00 2011 From: paul at esru.strath.ac.uk (Paul Strachan) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 15:01:00 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] ESP-r introductory course Message-ID: <4D7F7F2C.5050700@esru.strath.ac.uk> An introductory ESP-r course is running this week. The next will be a 2-day course on 2 and 3 June. See www.esru.strath.ac.uk/training.htm for details. Regards Paul From felipe at b-green.cl Tue Mar 22 17:42:27 2011 From: felipe at b-green.cl (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Felipe_Dur=E1n?=) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 13:42:27 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] Import EPW to Binary Message-ID: Dear All, I am trying to import a epw climate file to esp-r but gives me the following error message: Error 5002 reading Climate db information. I have deleted # character and the end blank line but the error persists. I am using 11.1 version for windows: Build information: - SVN Source: Jon_Hand at r6265 (locally modified) - Platform: i686:MINGW32_NT-5.1:1.0.11(0.46/3/2) - Compilers: gcc/g++/gfortran - Graphics Library: GTK - XML output: Supported ?Does anybody knows how to solve it? Kind Regards, Felipe Dur?n P. Direcci?n de Proyectos / Project Manager Arquitecto PUC, Mphil U. Cambridge LEED AP BD+C -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: b-green_2.png Type: image/png Size: 12883 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110322/07004211/attachment.png -------------- next part -------------- From A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk Tue Mar 22 23:24:47 2011 From: A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk (A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 23:24:47 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] model the ground Message-ID: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C1210F65B139@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> Dear All, I am modelling a solid concrete floor and I am using the ground monthly profile to determine the boundary condition, however I have unrealistic results. Does anyone know what is the best way to model a solid concrete floor that is in direct contact with the ground? Thank you in advance, kind regards. Arianna ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110322/26abd447/attachment.html From Alex.Ferguson at NRCan-RNCan.gc.ca Wed Mar 23 13:21:53 2011 From: Alex.Ferguson at NRCan-RNCan.gc.ca (Ferguson, Alex) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 09:21:53 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] Re: model the ground In-Reply-To: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C1210F65B139@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> References: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C1210F65B139@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> Message-ID: How large is your floor? The BASESIMP correlations have proven very robust for ground-couplings up to 12x12 meters. Sensitivity analysis suggests they can be used for larger foundations, but we have not carefully investigated their behaviour in this regime. Alex Ferguson Housing, Buildings and Communities Group CanmetENERGY Natural Resources Canada P:+1 613 995 3294 F:+1 613 996 9909 Alex.Ferguson at NRCan-RNCan.gc.ca ________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk Sent: March 22, 2011 19:25 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] model the ground Dear All, I am modelling a solid concrete floor and I am using the ground monthly profile to determine the boundary condition, however I have unrealistic results. Does anyone know what is the best way to model a solid concrete floor that is in direct contact with the ground? Thank you in advance, kind regards. Arianna ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110323/82ffa446/attachment.html From j.hensen at tue.nl Wed Mar 23 18:08:01 2011 From: j.hensen at tue.nl (Hensen, J.L.M.) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 19:08:01 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] fully funded PhD position at TU Eindhoven Message-ID: Dear all, We currently have a fully funded building performance simulation PhD position available. The project is a part of the just started Dutch research project "Climate Proof Cities" http://knowledgeforclimate.climateresearchnetherlands.nl/nl/25222878-Climate_Proof_Cities.html which involves a large number of universities and research institutes. The aim of this programme is to generate knowledge for adapting the built environment in order to cope with future climate change. Details about the vacancy "Climate change adaptation measures: adaptive buildings and occupants" are at http://jobs.tue.nl/wd/plsql/wd_portal.show_job?p_web_site_id=3085&p_web_page_id=109720&p_order_by= Please don't hesitate to contact me for further information. I would appreciate it very much if you could forward this message to potential applicants. Thanks in advance! Jan ........................................ prof. dr. ir. Jan L.M. Hensen | Eindhoven University of Technology | Building Physics & Systems | P.O. Box 513 - VRT6.18 | 5600 MB EINDHOVEN, Netherlands | +31 (0)40 247 2988 | www.bwk.tue.nl/bps/hensen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110323/90d51772/attachment.html From A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk Mon Mar 28 11:55:29 2011 From: A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk (A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 10:55:29 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: model the ground Message-ID: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C1210F65B846@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> Dear Jon, I am currently comparing two models for single storey houses built in ESP-r with different construction types, however I am having similar results for the heating load. Both models have a solid concrete floor with direct ground coupling and my feeling is that there is something imprecise in the way I have modelled the ground floor with ESP-r. As a boundary condition for the concrete floor, I have tried using the ground monthly profile first, that gave me a very high heating load. I have then tried to add to the composition of the floor 3 layers of ground of 20cm each and the heating load was reduced but I couldn't see much difference in the heating load of the different construction types. Finally I received a suggestion from Ian to use BASESIMP. When I apply one of the BASESIMP correlation the energy use drops to zero. Can anyone explain why and is there any explanation available on how to use the facility? Thank you in advance, kind regards. Arianna ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110328/f91b5efb/attachment.html From Alex.Ferguson at NRCan-RNCan.gc.ca Mon Mar 28 14:23:03 2011 From: Alex.Ferguson at NRCan-RNCan.gc.ca (Ferguson, Alex) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 09:23:03 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] Re: model the ground In-Reply-To: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C1210F65B846@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> References: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C1210F65B846@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> Message-ID: Information about configuring BASESIMP can be found here: https://espr.trac.cvsdude.com/esp-r/wiki/BASESIMP.bsm One of the model's inputs requires you to describe the below-grade insulation configuration; the attached pdf depicts all of the configurations currently supported by BASESIMP. (you can safely ignore the 'DO NO DISTRIBUTE' directive at the top of the document). - Alex Alex Ferguson Housing, Buildings and Communities Group CanmetENERGY Natural Resources Canada P:+1 613 995 3294 F:+1 613 996 9909 Alex.Ferguson at NRCan-RNCan.gc.ca ________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk Sent: March 28, 2011 06:55 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Re: model the ground Dear Jon, I am currently comparing two models for single storey houses built in ESP-r with different construction types, however I am having similar results for the heating load. Both models have a solid concrete floor with direct ground coupling and my feeling is that there is something imprecise in the way I have modelled the ground floor with ESP-r. As a boundary condition for the concrete floor, I have tried using the ground monthly profile first, that gave me a very high heating load. I have then tried to add to the composition of the floor 3 layers of ground of 20cm each and the heating load was reduced but I couldn't see much difference in the heating load of the different construction types. Finally I received a suggestion from Ian to use BASESIMP. When I apply one of the BASESIMP correlation the energy use drops to zero. Can anyone explain why and is there any explanation available on how to use the facility? Thank you in advance, kind regards. Arianna ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110328/3cdb95d3/attachment-0001.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: BASESIMP_configurations.pdf Type: application/octet-stream Size: 112671 bytes Desc: BASESIMP_configurations.pdf Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110328/3cdb95d3/attachment-0001.obj From olivia_maul at yahoo.de Mon Mar 28 22:50:26 2011 From: olivia_maul at yahoo.de (olivia maul) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 22:50:26 +0100 (BST) Subject: [esp-r] beginner problem with modelling zones Message-ID: <589091.25803.qm@web25608.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Dear all, I just started using ESP-r and I have a problem with modelling zones. I successfully installed the native Windows version (ESP-r_setup_native_windows_gtk_txt_v11_10_dev6265.exe). But when defining a new zone with the rectangular plan with default (or any other) coordinates the wireframe isn't displayed. So I decided to deinstall and installed an older version I downloaded a couple months ago (ESP-r_setup_native_windows_gtk_txt_v11_9_trunk_GCC4.exe) . With this version it works and displays the wireframe! So what did I do wrong, that the lastest version doesn't display the wireframes? My second question is, if it is possible to use Phase Change Materials (special materials) within the native Windows version? Thank you in advance! kind?regards, Olivia -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110328/6b87e65f/attachment.html From cathal.quinn at ucdconnect.ie Tue Mar 29 13:07:20 2011 From: cathal.quinn at ucdconnect.ie (Cathal Quinn) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 13:07:20 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Low-e double glazing Message-ID: <72409a48c32.4d91d988@ucd.ie> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110329/1f82dd64/attachment-0001.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Double Glazing.ppt Type: application/vnd.ms-powerpoint Size: 438784 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110329/1f82dd64/attachment-0001.ppt From achim.geissler at intergga.ch Tue Mar 29 17:16:06 2011 From: achim.geissler at intergga.ch (Achim Geissler) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 18:16:06 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Low-e double glazing In-Reply-To: <72409a48c32.4d91d988@ucd.ie> References: <72409a48c32.4d91d988@ucd.ie> Message-ID: <185F5478-10A8-4731-9A3D-9CE34246C668@intergga.ch> Dear Cathal I think you can ignore the warnings. If the data in the .tmc is correct, all should be well. The messages seem to be related to a recently introduced bug. However, one way to get rid of them is, as far as I recall, to go into the composition -> geometry & attribution -> -> surface attributes -> dialog. There, you can set the surface type, which is probably your optics property name. Set this to TRAN. If you do this for each surface you get the warning for, these should disappear. Best Achim On Mar 29, 2011, at 2:07 PM, Cathal Quinn wrote: > Dear All, > > I am having a problem with creating a low-e double glazing unit in one of my models. I am using data obtained from Window 5 and imputing the data manually into the optics, multi-layer constuction and materials databases respectively (see attached) > When I go to simulate the following message appears > Optics in geo file TRAN does not match optics of the MLC Lowe_DG > I have rebuilt the construction files after changing the data and results-wise am getting improvements in energy performance over the standard double glazing unit in the database but am just wondering if anyone knows where I might be off? > > Kind Regards > Cathal > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r achim.geissler at intergga.ch From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Tue Mar 29 21:26:41 2011 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 21:26:41 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Low-e double glazing In-Reply-To: <72409a48c32.4d91d988@ucd.ie> References: <72409a48c32.4d91d988@ucd.ie> Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA413018DA9093E2A@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> I looked into this coding issue yesterday. In newer versions of ESP-r when you get the message the internal logic has already corrected the optical data in memory and generally the construction and tmc files have correct data if they have been re-created. TRAN is a place-holder which is ok in the geometry file. All that is needed to get rid of the message is to go to the zone geometry menu and then save the geometry file. This will write the correct optical name into the geometry file. I have committed a change that clarifies the message about mis-matching optics. -Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Cathal Quinn [cathal.quinn at ucdconnect.ie] Sent: 29 March 2011 13:07 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Low-e double glazing Dear All, I am having a problem with creating a low-e double glazing unit in one of my models. I am using data obtained from Window 5 and imputing the data manually into the optics, multi-layer constuction and materials databases respectively (see attached) When I go to simulate the following message appears Optics in geo file TRAN does not match optics of the MLC Lowe_DG I have rebuilt the construction files after changing the data and results-wise am getting improvements in energy performance over the standard double glazing unit in the database but am just wondering if anyone knows where I might be off? Kind Regards Cathal From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Tue Mar 29 21:59:33 2011 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 21:59:33 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: beginner problem with modelling zones In-Reply-To: <589091.25803.qm@web25608.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <589091.25803.qm@web25608.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA413018DA9093E2B@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> The good news is that you did nothing wrong. The zone was there but there was a bug that reset the wire-frame viewing angle to zero. Very frustrating and confusing to new users. To see new zones in the 6265 version what you need to do is to locate the View pull down menu at the top of the application and click on the wireframe control option and then locate the view angle (near upper right side) and reset the zero to something like 40 degrees. The other fix is to exit from the project manager and re-open the model and then you will see the zone. There is a BETA version on the download site that corrects this glitch. -Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of olivia maul [olivia_maul at yahoo.de] Sent: 28 March 2011 22:50 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] beginner problem with modelling zones Dear all, I just started using ESP-r and I have a problem with modelling zones. I successfully installed the native Windows version (ESP-r_setup_native_windows_gtk_txt_v11_10_dev6265.exe). But when defining a new zone with the rectangular plan with default (or any other) coordinates the wireframe isn't displayed. So I decided to deinstall and installed an older version I downloaded a couple months ago (ESP-r_setup_native_windows_gtk_txt_v11_9_trunk_GCC4.exe) . With this version it works and displays the wireframe! So what did I do wrong, that the lastest version doesn't display the wireframes? My second question is, if it is possible to use Phase Change Materials (special materials) within the native Windows version? Thank you in advance! kind regards, Olivia From olivia_maul at yahoo.de Thu Mar 31 17:07:30 2011 From: olivia_maul at yahoo.de (olivia maul) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 17:07:30 +0100 (BST) Subject: [esp-r] beginner problem with simulation Message-ID: <839315.85099.qm@web25608.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Hello, I'm sorry for asking again, but I did run into the next "problem" I can't solve. I am using the Linux X11 version now. When I try to run a simulation it won't work. In the terminal I can read the following: esp-r: /usr/lib/libxml2.so.2: no version information available (required by esp-r) sh: bps: not found The problem is, that I am not quite familiar with Linux/Ubuntu. But maybe it is just as simple as the other problem I had?! I installed from Package manager: ?libgfortran2, ImageMagik, nedit, libg2c0 and gfortran -4.3 (matching with my gcc version) when I locate libxml2.so.2? I do?get the terminal answer: /usr/lib/libxml2.so.2 /usr/lib/libxml2.so.2.6.32 So the lib should be there, but how can I include version information? Thanks in advance, kind regards, Olivia Maul -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110331/564a07a3/attachment.html From achim.geissler at intergga.ch Thu Mar 31 17:48:06 2011 From: achim.geissler at intergga.ch (Achim Geissler) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 18:48:06 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: beginner problem with simulation In-Reply-To: <839315.85099.qm@web25608.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <839315.85099.qm@web25608.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8F329730-DF77-44E0-B398-F34B9EBD0555@intergga.ch> Dear Olivia the line below "sh: bps: not found" seems to say that a) you are using sh as shell? Possibly try bash b) bps is not found (bps is the "engine" for esp-r simulation). Did you set the environment paths for esp-r? Best Achim On Mar 31, 2011, at 6:07 PM, olivia maul wrote: > Hello, > > I'm sorry for asking again, but I did run into the next "problem" I can't solve. > I am using the Linux X11 version now. > When I try to run a simulation it won't work. In the terminal I can read the following: > > > esp-r: /usr/lib/libxml2.so.2: no version information available (required by esp-r) > sh: bps: not found > > > The problem is, that I am not quite familiar with Linux/Ubuntu. > But maybe it is just as simple as the other problem I had?! > > I installed from Package manager: libgfortran2, ImageMagik, nedit, libg2c0 and gfortran -4.3 (matching with my gcc version) > > when I locate libxml2.so.2 I do get the terminal answer: > /usr/lib/libxml2.so.2 > /usr/lib/libxml2.so.2.6.32 > > > So the lib should be there, but how can I include version information? > > Thanks in advance, > kind regards, > Olivia Maul > > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r achim.geissler at intergga.ch -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110331/9beee2ed/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Thu Mar 31 22:29:40 2011 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 22:29:40 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] New type installer for users of Cygwin versions of ESP-r needs testing Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA4130194A512A112@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> I have created a new type of ESP-r installer for users who work with the Cygwin version of ESP-r. This runs as a standard Windows installer application (rather than forcing you to work with a *.run file within Cygwin). The process is thus similar to that used by the Native Windows ESP-r installer. The 2nd change is that the Installer includes a full set of instructions about how to setup Cygwin on your machine and full instructions on adapting the Cygwin environment variables as well as the link_to script and sample bash_profile. At the end of the process it starts up Cygwin so you can carry out the post-install tasks. The 3rd change is that it installs both the X11 and GTK version of ESP-r and provides instructions for how to switch between the two as required. Some tasks are easier in GTK and some with X11 and the prior approach only allowed you to have one on your machine. The approach also results in a smaller installer because the libraries/databases/exeamplars are shared. The 4th change is that the documentation for pre-install and post install are included so that you can reference them and the Italian and Korean versions of the Cookbook are included. I have tested this on a couple of machines - one which already had Cygwin ESP-r on it and one clean machine. Before releasing it would be great if others can check it out and see if it works. Feedback on the instructions will help to clarify it. If you can participate in this testing send me an email and I will post you a link to the installer. Regards, Jon Hand From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Fri Apr 1 02:19:15 2011 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 02:19:15 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: beginner problem with simulation In-Reply-To: <839315.85099.qm@web25608.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <839315.85099.qm@web25608.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA4130194A512A113@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> Here are some checks to do: a) see if any other ESP-r application will start up. For example in the Databases section of the project manager choose the climate and see if the clm module will start. If it does your PATH is set ok. If the path is set ok then there may be a library dependency in the simulator (bps). Locate the folder where the bps executable lives (probaby /usr/esru/esp-r/bin or /opt/esru/esp-r/bin). Next issue the following command ldd ./bps this will list out the libraries/dll files that bps uses. It might be that it does not find one of them. If this does not work - perhaps you could install the TeamViewer software so that someone who does know Linux and ESP-r can quickly go on to your machine and correct the issues. -Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of olivia maul [olivia_maul at yahoo.de] Sent: 31 March 2011 17:07 To: ESP-r Userlist Subject: [esp-r] beginner problem with simulation Hello, I'm sorry for asking again, but I did run into the next "problem" I can't solve. I am using the Linux X11 version now. When I try to run a simulation it won't work. In the terminal I can read the following: esp-r: /usr/lib/libxml2.so.2: no version information available (required by esp-r) sh: bps: not found The problem is, that I am not quite familiar with Linux/Ubuntu. But maybe it is just as simple as the other problem I had?! I installed from Package manager: libgfortran2, ImageMagik, nedit, libg2c0 and gfortran -4.3 (matching with my gcc version) when I locate libxml2.so.2 I do get the terminal answer: /usr/lib/libxml2.so.2 /usr/lib/libxml2.so.2.6.32 So the lib should be there, but how can I include version information? Thanks in advance, kind regards, Olivia Maul From ebaharvand at yahoo.com Thu Mar 31 18:29:47 2011 From: ebaharvand at yahoo.com (Ehsan Baharvand) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 10:29:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [esp-r] prj -file *.cfg works but... Message-ID: <77328.22615.qm@web121508.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Dear all, The bps (for simulation) doesn't open after?re-installing ESP-r! ?I used Cygwin. BPS?just doesn't?appear on my screen when?trying to open it through UGI as well as text shell commend! I have updated the new version of ESP-r?using v11.10 run file.?When using v11.7 the BPS?works perfectly. Does anyone know what the problem is? Thanking you in advance. Kind Regards, E. Baharvand -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110331/3d4c30a9/attachment-0001.html From ebaharvand at yahoo.com Thu Mar 31 18:55:31 2011 From: ebaharvand at yahoo.com (Ehsan Baharvand) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 10:55:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [esp-r] solar chimney Message-ID: <689026.71215.qm@web121510.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Dear all, Problem The free-floating?of a solar chimney is simulated?and a upward stream due to the solar energy occurs.? However when increasing?the infiltration (colder ambient air) by increasing the opening area to outside the backwall inside surface temperature doesn't change!??Other thing is that the heat load inside the chimney is being removed by the infiltration air exchange. Eventhough I increase the infiltration air exchange, the heat load being removed increases, but the surface temperature of the backwall remains the same. Question Do I forget something? What can be the problem? I'm certain about the configurations?and the Air Flow Network. Model The?22 zones solar chimney uses a air flow network and has 2 wind pressure boundary nodes at the inlet?and the outlet. Each zone has a separate connection with the outdoors through a air flow network connection, which simulates a opening between glazing panels meant for infiltration! The inlet and the outlet areas are connected to the ambient air thourgh a orifice with a?Cd of 0.67. Between the cubic thermal zones fictitious surfaces are used. The backwall is a massive construction with adiabatic BC at the surface outside node. At 1.8 meter distance from the backwall there is a glazing surface with a G-value of 0.8 and 80% of glass and it has a external BC. The chimney is South oriented for a Climate catagory 3A according to Ashrae 90.l. Not included Wind effect?is not included. Kind regards, E. Baharvand -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110331/5c5d93a8/attachment-0001.html From sr880710 at dal.ca Thu Mar 31 20:19:14 2011 From: sr880710 at dal.ca (Sara Nikoofard) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 16:19:14 -0300 Subject: [esp-r] Construction database - problem Message-ID: <000001cbefd8$864515c0$92cf4140$@ca> Hi All, I am introducing my construction database instead of the default one for simulations. Since my constructions are more than maximum allowable value for the ESP-r, I got this message during simulation: FAILURE: in ../../../databases/con_db_xml.a: 177 the no of composite constructions value (177) > allowable maximum 120! Warning: Problem during reading of construction database. I changed the MMLC dimension from 120 to 200 in /include/building.h file. After compiling ESP-r I still had the error till I added the following line to /esrucom/edatabase.F: WRITE (*,*) MMLC, NMLC After adding and deleting this line everything worked fine and warning disappeared. But another problem popped up. Now, if I want to use the ESP-r default construction file, the construction database in GUI interference shows only squares nothing is there. If I click on those squares it reports in text box what it is but it gives a warning: "corrected mlc". Now there are two questions: 1- why ESP-r needed the trick to understand the real dimension of MMLC? 2- How can I get back my database without reducing the MMLC dimension? How can I have 200 spots for constructions and still see my default construction database? By the way my ESP-r is installed on KUBUNTU 8.10. Thanks, -- Sara Nikoofard Room C254A, Department of Mechanical Engineering, Dalhousie University, Halifax, NS Phone: (902)494-3165 email: s.nikoofard at dal.ca -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110331/b5057e1e/attachment.html From achim.geissler at intergga.ch Fri Apr 1 08:26:47 2011 From: achim.geissler at intergga.ch (Achim.geissler) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 09:26:47 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: solar chimney Message-ID: <719a795ace302c69513c79ca198a3627@212.203.77.242> Dear Ehsan some questions for clarification to help understand your model: a) what is "massiv" (your back wall)? b) how long is your pre-simulation period, how long is your simulation period and what does "temperature does not change" mean? "Not at all" or "not as much as expected"? c) what do you mean "wind effect is not included"? An afn takes wind into account by the cp-value table you must define for external nodes. d) do the air changes (outside air) change with changed opening sizes? e) how large are the air changes befor / after changing the opening sizes? f) do you have a bypass in your stack to allow for downward air flow (night time)? Best Achim ?--------- Original-Nachricht -------- Von: "Ehsan Baharvand" An: "esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk" Betreff: [esp-r] solar chimney Datum: 01/04/11 09:05 Dear all, ? Problem The free-floating?of a solar chimney is simulated?and a upward stream due to the solar energy occurs.? However when increasing?the infiltration (colder ambient air) by increasing the opening area to outside the backwall inside surface temperature doesn't change!??Other thing is that the heat load inside the chimney is being removed by the infiltration air exchange. Eventhough I increase the infiltration air exchange, the heat load being removed increases, but the surface temperature of the backwall remains the same. ? Question Do I forget something? What can be the problem? I'm certain about the configurations?and the Air Flow Network. ? Model The?22 zones solar chimney uses a air flow network and has 2 wind pressure boundary nodes at the inlet?and the outlet. Each zone has a separate connection with the outdoors through a air flow network connection, which simulates a opening between glazing panels meant for infiltration! The inlet and the outlet areas are connected to the ambient air thourgh a orifice with a?Cd of 0.67. Between the cubic thermal zones fictitious surfaces are used. The backwall is a massive construction with adiabatic BC at the surface outside node. At 1.8 meter distance from the backwall there is a glazing surface with a G-value of 0.8 and 80% of glass and it has a external BC. The chimney is South oriented for a Climate catagory 3A according to Ashrae 90.l. ? Not included Wind effect?is not included. ? ? Kind regards, ? E. Baharvand ? _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk (mailto:esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk" class="autolink) http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r (http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r" target="_blank" class="autolink) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110401/a61fb319/attachment.html From achim.geissler at intergga.ch Fri Apr 1 08:30:18 2011 From: achim.geissler at intergga.ch (Achim.geissler) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 09:30:18 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Construction database - problem Message-ID: Dear Sara did you do a "make clean" after changing something in building.h? Fortran does not accept changes to header files as "significant enough" to force a re-build. If you did not do that, that may have been the problem and may also be the problem you are facing with the standard data base(s). ? Best Achim --------- Original-Nachricht -------- Von: "Sara Nikoofard" An: "esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk" Betreff: [esp-r] Construction database - problem Datum: 01/04/11 09:01 ?Hi All, ?I am introducing my construction database instead of the default one for simulations. Since my constructions are more than maximum allowable value for the ESP-r, I got this message during simulation:?FAILURE: in .../../../databases/con_db_xml.a: 177the no of composite constructions value (177) > allowable maximum 120!Warning: Problem during reading of construction database.?I changed the MMLC dimension from 120 to 200 in /include/building.h file. After compiling ESP-r I still had the error till I added the following line to /esrucom/edatabase.F:?WRITE (*,*) MMLC, NMLC?After adding and deleting this line everything worked fine and warning disappeared. But another problem popped up. Now, if I want to use the ESP-r default construction file, the construction database in GUI interference shows only squares nothing is there. If I click on those squares it reports in text box what it is but it gives a warning: “corrected mlc”. ?Now there are two questions:?1-????? why ESP-r needed the trick to understand the real dimension of MMLC?2-????? How can I get back my database without reducing the MMLC dimension? How can I have 200 spots for constructions and still see my default construction database??By the way my ESP-r is installed on KUBUNTU 8.10.?Thanks, --Sara NikoofardRoom C254A, Department of Mechanical Engineering, Dalhousie University, Halifax, NSPhone: (902)494-3165email:? s.nikoofard at dal.ca (mailto:s.nikoofard at dal.ca)? _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk (mailto:esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk" class="autolink) http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r (http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r" target="_blank" class="autolink) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110401/73433e39/attachment.html From achim.geissler at intergga.ch Fri Apr 1 08:31:43 2011 From: achim.geissler at intergga.ch (Achim.geissler) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 09:31:43 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Construction database - problem Message-ID: <345994b28e28581113d7a764ef276e6d@212.203.77.242> ... as an afterthought: after "make clean", you should do an ./Install and say yes to "install databases". ? Achim --------- Original-Nachricht -------- Von: "Sara Nikoofard" An: "esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk" Betreff: [esp-r] Construction database - problem Datum: 01/04/11 09:01 ?Hi All, ?I am introducing my construction database instead of the default one for simulations. Since my constructions are more than maximum allowable value for the ESP-r, I got this message during simulation:?FAILURE: in .../../../databases/con_db_xml.a: 177the no of composite constructions value (177) > allowable maximum 120!Warning: Problem during reading of construction database.?I changed the MMLC dimension from 120 to 200 in /include/building.h file. After compiling ESP-r I still had the error till I added the following line to /esrucom/edatabase.F:?WRITE (*,*) MMLC, NMLC?After adding and deleting this line everything worked fine and warning disappeared. But another problem popped up. Now, if I want to use the ESP-r default construction file, the construction database in GUI interference shows only squares nothing is there. If I click on those squares it reports in text box what it is but it gives a warning: “corrected mlc”. ?Now there are two questions:?1-????? why ESP-r needed the trick to understand the real dimension of MMLC?2-????? How can I get back my database without reducing the MMLC dimension? How can I have 200 spots for constructions and still see my default construction database??By the way my ESP-r is installed on KUBUNTU 8.10.?Thanks, --Sara NikoofardRoom C254A, Department of Mechanical Engineering, Dalhousie University, Halifax, NSPhone: (902)494-3165email:? s.nikoofard at dal.ca (mailto:s.nikoofard at dal.ca)? _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk (mailto:esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk" class="autolink) http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r (http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r" target="_blank" class="autolink) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110401/a4cf4f89/attachment-0001.html From monika.hall at fhnw.ch Fri Apr 1 08:42:22 2011 From: monika.hall at fhnw.ch (Hall Monika) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 09:42:22 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: solar chimney In-Reply-To: <719a795ace302c69513c79ca198a3627@212.203.77.242> References: <719a795ace302c69513c79ca198a3627@212.203.77.242> Message-ID: <2E69B53CF81E2A43988A841A5B2679949F1CEF2939@MXAMU12.adm.ds.fhnw.ch> Dear Ehsam, do you have a zone between the backwall and the glazing in 1.8 m distance? Regards Monika ________________________________ Von: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] Im Auftrag von Achim.geissler Gesendet: Freitag, 1. April 2011 09:27 An: EhsanBaharvand; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Betreff: [esp-r] Re: solar chimney Dear Ehsan some questions for clarification to help understand your model: a) what is "massiv" (your back wall)? b) how long is your pre-simulation period, how long is your simulation period and what does "temperature does not change" mean? "Not at all" or "not as much as expected"? c) what do you mean "wind effect is not included"? An afn takes wind into account by the cp-value table you must define for external nodes. d) do the air changes (outside air) change with changed opening sizes? e) how large are the air changes befor / after changing the opening sizes? f) do you have a bypass in your stack to allow for downward air flow (night time)? Best Achim --------- Original-Nachricht -------- Von: "Ehsan Baharvand" An: "esp-r at lists.strath.ac.u! k" Betreff: [esp-r] solar chimney Datum: 01/04/11 09:05 Dear all, Problem The free-floating of a solar chimney is simulated and a upward stream due to the solar energy occurs. However when increasing the infiltration (colder ambient air) by increasing the opening area to outside the backwall inside surface temperature doesn't change! Other thing is that the heat load inside the chimney is being removed by the infiltration air exchange. Eventhough I increase the infiltration air exchange, the heat load being removed increases, but the surface temperature of the backwall remains the same. Question Do I forget something? W! hat can be the problem? I'm certain about the configurations and the Air Flow Network. Model The 22 zones solar chimney uses a air flow network and has 2 wind pressure boundary nodes at the inlet and the outlet. Each zone has a separate connection with the outdoors through a air flow network connection, which simulates a opening between glazing panels meant for infiltration! The inlet and the outlet areas are connected to the ambient air thourgh a orifice with a Cd of 0.67. Between the cubic thermal zones fictitious surfaces are used. The backwall is a massive construction with adiabatic BC at the surface outside node. At 1.8 meter distance from the backwall there is a glazing surface with a G-value of 0.8 and 80% of glass and it has a external BC. The chimney is South oriented for a Cl! imate catagory 3A according to Ashrae 90.l. Not included Wind effect is not included. Kind regards, E. Baharvand ________________________________ _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110401/f46a4365/attachment.html From manzan at units.it Fri Apr 1 09:58:35 2011 From: manzan at units.it (Marco Manzan) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 10:58:35 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: beginner problem with simulation (olivia maul) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <201104011058.36718.manzan@units.it> Alle venerd? 1 aprile 2011, esp-r-request at lists.strath.ac.uk ha scritto: > Send esp-r mailing list submissions to > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > esp-r-request at lists.strath.ac.uk > > You can reach the person managing the list at > esp-r-owner at lists.strath.ac.uk > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of esp-r digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. beginner problem with simulation (olivia maul) > 2. Re: beginner problem with simulation (Achim Geissler) > 3. New type installer for users of Cygwin versions of ESP-r > needs testing (Jon Hand) > 4. Re: beginner problem with simulation (Jon Hand) > 5. prj -file *.cfg works but... (Ehsan Baharvand) > 6. solar chimney (Ehsan Baharvand) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 17:07:30 +0100 (BST) > From: olivia maul > Subject: [esp-r] beginner problem with simulation > To: ESP-r Userlist > Message-ID: <839315.85099.qm at web25608.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Hello, > > I'm sorry for asking again, but I did run into the next "problem" I can't > solve. I am using the Linux X11 version now. > When I try to run a simulation it won't work. In the terminal I can read > the following: > > > esp-r: /usr/lib/libxml2.so.2: no version information available (required by > esp-r) > sh: bps: not found > > > The problem is, that I am not quite familiar with Linux/Ubuntu. > But maybe it is just as simple as the other problem I had?! > > I installed from Package manager: ?libgfortran2, ImageMagik, nedit, libg2c0 > and gfortran -4.3 (matching with my gcc version) > > when I locate libxml2.so.2? I do?get the terminal answer: > /usr/lib/libxml2.so.2 > /usr/lib/libxml2.so.2.6.32 > > > So the lib should be there, but how can I include version information? > > Thanks in advance, > kind regards, > Olivia Maul > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110331/564a07a3/att > achment-0001.html > dear oliva There are two thinks you should check on a Ubuntu installation. The first is toverify if you are working with a 64bit version of Ubuntu and you installed a 32bit version of esp-r. In this case you need the /usr/lib32/libxml2.so.2 library this is available on Ubuntu repos as ia32-libs package. The second check you should perform is the shell, since for default in ubuntu /bin/sh points to /bin/dash and some scripts require /bin/bash. You can change the link sudo ln -sf /bin/bash /bin/sh hope this helps Marco -- _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ |Marco Manzan Email: manzan at units.it | |Tel: (+39) 040 5583506 Fax : (+39) 040 572033 | |Dipartimento di Ingegneria Meccanica e Navale | |Universita' degli Studi di Trieste | |via A. Valerio 10, 34127 TRIESTE | |_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _| From achim.geissler at intergga.ch Fri Apr 1 11:14:15 2011 From: achim.geissler at intergga.ch (Achim.geissler) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 12:14:15 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: solar chimney Message-ID: Dear Ehsan please see further comments below. --------- Original-Nachricht -------- Von: "Ehsan Baharvand" An: "Achim.geissler" , "esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk" Betreff: Re: AW: [esp-r] solar chimney Datum: 01/04/11 11:14 Dear Achim, ? Please see my answers below: ? a) what is "massiv" (your back wall)? This?is the back wall. Sorry, my bad english: What I meant is, "how heavy / massive" is the construction? It does seem to change temperature quite rapidly. What is the solar absorption coefficient you are using on the back wall? ? b) how long is your pre-simulation period, how long is your simulation period and what does "temperature does not change" mean? "Not at all" or "not as much as expected"? Pre-simulation = 12 days Simulation period = 1 day (24h) Time-step = 60 ... so, 1 minute time steps? Integration per hour = yes ? The temperatures do not change at all. This holds for all the surface, air node temp or thermal db node temperature. c) what do you mean "wind effect is not included"? An afn takes wind into account by the cp-value table you must define for external nodes. I excluded the wind effect by using Cp=0 for all the directions. O.K.! ? d) do the air changes (outside air) change with changed opening sizes? Yes, see attachtment Infiltration Load / Rate. e) how large are the air changes befor / after changing the opening sizes? See attachtment Infiltration Load / Rate. Infiltration rate, load: These profiles look O.K. at first glance. The air flow rate rises significantly with larger openings, the zone-wise load also increases for larger openings (more pronounced stack effect). Have you looked at your temperature stack? The load in zone 1 (the lowermost one, I assume) stays quite similar. This zone has the large external "entry"? How large are the vertical openings between the zones as compared to the external opening at the bottom and the openings at each level? f) do you have a bypass in your stack to allow for downward air flow (night time)? How to do this?But?there is no control on the air flow inside the chimney. The control is based on free-floating. Do I need a bypass? I am not sure if you need one, here. Generally, to allow for downward movement of air and upward movement of air at the same time (e.g. cold glass, warm wall) it is a good idea to split such a stack vertically, also. Thanking you in advance. ? Kind regards, Ehsan From: Achim.geissler To: EhsanBaharvand ; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Sent: Fri, April 1, 2011 9:26:47 AM Subject: AW: [esp-r] solar chimney Dear Ehsan some questions for clarification to help understand your model: a) what is "massiv" (your back wall)? b) how long is your pre-simulation period, how long is your simulation period and what does "temperature does not change" mean? "Not at all" or "not as much as expected"? c) what do you mean "wind effect is not included"? An afn takes wind into account by the cp-value table you must define for external nodes. d) do the air changes (outside air) change with changed opening sizes? e) how large are the air changes befor / after changing the opening sizes? f) do you have a bypass in your stack to allow for downward air flow (night time)? Best Achim ?--------- Original-Nachricht -------- Von: "Ehsan Baharvand" An: "esp-r at lists.strath.ac.u! k" Betreff: [esp-r] solar chimney Datum: 01/04/11 09:05 Dear all, ? Problem The free-floating?of a solar chimney is simulated?and a upward stream due to the solar energy occurs.? However when increasing?the infiltration (colder ambient air) by increasing the opening area to outside the backwall inside surface temperature doesn't change!??Other thing is that the heat load inside the chimney is being removed by the infiltration air exchange. Eventhough I increase the infiltration air exchange, the heat load being removed increases, but the surface temperature of the backwall remains the same. ? Question Do I forget something? W! hat can be the problem? I'm certain about the configurations?and the Air Flow Network. ? Model The?22 zones solar chimney uses a air flow network and has 2 wind pressure boundary nodes at the inlet?and the outlet. Each zone has a separate connection with the outdoors through a air flow network connection, which simulates a opening between glazing panels meant for infiltration! The inlet and the outlet areas are connected to the ambient air thourgh a orifice with a?Cd of 0.67. Between the cubic thermal zones fictitious surfaces are used. The backwall is a massive construction with adiabatic BC at the surface outside node. At 1.8 meter distance from the backwall there is a glazing surface with a G-value of 0.8 and 80% of glass and it has a external BC. The chimney is South oriented for a Cl! imate catagory 3A according to Ashrae 90.l. ? Not included Wind effect?is not included. ? ? Kind regards, ? E. Baharvand ? _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110401/42b37cc9/attachment-0001.html From Gunter.Pueltz at MuellerBBM.de Fri Apr 1 11:57:44 2011 From: Gunter.Pueltz at MuellerBBM.de (Pueltz, Gunter) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 12:57:44 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] cut-off-control also at sloped roof glazing ??? Message-ID: <324E563ADB028A4CAF79CE7CD1941A20163E69@s-muc-ex02.mbbm-group.com> Dear specialists of cfc-constructions, does the cut-off-control for the blind angle work for a sloped glazing at the roof (cfc-contruction) also ? Or does it only work for a vertical cfc-construction ? regards, gunter --- Dr. Gunter P?ltz M?ller-BBM GmbH Robert-Koch-Stra?e 11 82152 Planegg Telefon +49(89)85602-336 Telefax +49(89)85602-111 E-Mail Gunter.Pueltz at MuellerBBM.de http://www.MuellerBBM.de HRB M?nchen 86143 Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Horst Christian Gass, Bernd Gr?zinger, Dr. Carl-Christian Hantschk, Stefan Schierer, Dr. Edwin Schorer, Norbert Suritsch From Gunter.Pueltz at MuellerBBM.de Fri Apr 1 13:46:53 2011 From: Gunter.Pueltz at MuellerBBM.de (Pueltz, Gunter) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 14:46:53 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] cut-off-control also at sloped roof glazing ??? Message-ID: <324E563ADB028A4CAF79CE7CD1941A20163E6B@s-muc-ex02.mbbm-group.com> Dear specialists of cfc-constructions, does the cut-off-control for the blind angle work for a sloped glazing at the roof (cfc-contruction) also ? Or does it only work for a vertical cfc-construction ? regards, gunter --- Dr. Gunter P?ltz M?ller-BBM GmbH Robert-Koch-Stra?e 11 82152 Planegg Telefon +49(89)85602-336 Telefax +49(89)85602-111 E-Mail Gunter.Pueltz at MuellerBBM.de http://www.MuellerBBM.de HRB M?nchen 86143 Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Horst Christian Gass, Bernd Gr?zinger, Dr. Carl-Christian Hantschk, Stefan Schierer, Dr. Edwin Schorer, Norbert Suritsch From A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk Fri Apr 1 15:29:24 2011 From: A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk (A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 14:29:24 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: model the ground In-Reply-To: References: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C1210F65B139@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> Message-ID: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C1210F65C183@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> The BASESIMP is not working. Kind regards, Arianna From: Ferguson, Alex [mailto:Alex.Ferguson at NRCan-RNCan.gc.ca] Sent: 23 March 2011 13:22 To: Sdei Arianna; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: RE: [esp-r] model the ground How large is your floor? The BASESIMP correlations have proven very robust for ground-couplings up to 12x12 meters. Sensitivity analysis suggests they can be used for larger foundations, but we have not carefully investigated their behaviour in this regime. Alex Ferguson Housing, Buildings and Communities Group CanmetENERGY Natural Resources Canada P:+1 613 995 3294 F:+1 613 996 9909 Alex.Ferguson at NRCan-RNCan.gc.ca ________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk Sent: March 22, 2011 19:25 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] model the ground Dear All, I am modelling a solid concrete floor and I am using the ground monthly profile to determine the boundary condition, however I have unrealistic results. Does anyone know what is the best way to model a solid concrete floor that is in direct contact with the ground? Thank you in advance, kind regards. Arianna ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110401/a5c00580/attachment.html From david.garcias at gmail.com Fri Apr 1 15:34:12 2011 From: david.garcias at gmail.com (David Garcia) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 16:34:12 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: model the ground In-Reply-To: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C1210F65C183@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> References: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C1210F65B139@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C1210F65C183@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> Message-ID: For me also, I used the option BASESIMP in the ground floor and the energy needs become zero, Regards David Garcia On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 4:29 PM, wrote: > The BASESIMP is not working. Kind regards, Arianna > > > > *From:* Ferguson, Alex [mailto:Alex.Ferguson at NRCan-RNCan.gc.ca] > *Sent:* 23 March 2011 13:22 > *To:* Sdei Arianna; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > *Subject:* RE: [esp-r] model the ground > > > > How large is your floor? The BASESIMP correlations have proven very robust > for ground-couplings up to 12x12 meters. Sensitivity analysis suggests they > can be used for larger foundations, but we have not carefully investigated > their behaviour in this regime. > > > > *Alex Ferguson* > Housing, Buildings and Communities Group > CanmetENERGY > Natural Resources Canada > P:+1 613 995 3294 > F:+1 613 996 9909 > Alex.Ferguson at NRCan-RNCan.gc.ca > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto: > esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] *On Behalf Of *A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk > *Sent:* March 22, 2011 19:25 > *To:* esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > *Subject:* [esp-r] model the ground > > Dear All, > > > > I am modelling a solid concrete floor and I am using the ground monthly > profile to determine the boundary condition, however I have unrealistic > results. Does anyone know what is the best way to model a solid concrete > floor that is in direct contact with the ground? > > > > Thank you in advance, > > kind regards. > > Arianna > > > ___________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security > System on behalf of the University of Brighton. > For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ > ___________________________________________________________ > > ___________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security > System on behalf of the University of Brighton. > For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ > ___________________________________________________________ > > ___________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security > System on behalf of the University of Brighton. > For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ > ___________________________________________________________ > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > -- David GARCIA SANCHEZ ------------------------------------------------------------ D?partement Syst?mes ?nerg?tiques Environnement Ecole des Mines de Nantes 4, Rue Alfred Kastler 44300 Nantes France ------------------------------------------------------------ Email: david.garcia-sanchez at emn.fr Tel: +33 (0) 2 51 85 82 14 Mobile: +33 (0) 6 78 15 08 09 Fax: +33 (0) 2 51 85 82 99 ------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110401/dde6fbf0/attachment-0001.html From achim.geissler at intergga.ch Fri Apr 1 17:48:33 2011 From: achim.geissler at intergga.ch (Achim Geissler) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 18:48:33 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: cut-off-control also at sloped roof glazing ??? In-Reply-To: <324E563ADB028A4CAF79CE7CD1941A20163E6B@s-muc-ex02.mbbm-group.com> References: <324E563ADB028A4CAF79CE7CD1941A20163E6B@s-muc-ex02.mbbm-group.com> Message-ID: <5F8782B7-F9A5-4709-A6B1-51B96025A2C7@intergga.ch> Hi Gunter mainstream CFCs can only be defined for vertical surfaces. Best Achim On Apr 1, 2011, at 2:46 PM, Pueltz, Gunter wrote: > Dear specialists of cfc-constructions, > > does the cut-off-control for the blind angle work for a sloped glazing at > the roof (cfc-contruction) also ? Or does it only work for a vertical > cfc-construction ? > > regards, > gunter > > --- > > Dr. Gunter P?ltz > > M?ller-BBM GmbH > Robert-Koch-Stra?e 11 > 82152 Planegg > Telefon +49(89)85602-336 > Telefax +49(89)85602-111 > E-Mail Gunter.Pueltz at MuellerBBM.de > http://www.MuellerBBM.de > > HRB M?nchen 86143 > Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Horst Christian Gass, Bernd Gr?zinger, > Dr. Carl-Christian Hantschk, Stefan Schierer, Dr. Edwin Schorer, Norbert > Suritsch > > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > achim.geissler at intergga.ch From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Sat Apr 2 01:58:05 2011 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2011 01:58:05 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: prj -file *.cfg works but... In-Reply-To: <77328.22615.qm@web121508.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <77328.22615.qm@web121508.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA4130194A512A117@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> Included below are links are to documents which discuss setting up cygwin and environment variables which may be helpful. Going from 11.7 to 11.10 is a big step. It is possible that your cygwin does not include some libraries needed or has older versions of libraries. Sort of like trying to run a Vista executable on Windows 2000. The linked documents talk about what packages you need to have on your computer. If you installed 11.10 over 11.7 folders then there may be conflicts. It might be that the *run file did not work correctly because of some file and folder permissions. Suggest that you remove or relocate any existing /usr/esru folders and then try to install again. Pay particular attention to any messages during the install. Lets start with the basics a) is there actually a bps.exe located on your computer? b) do other ESP-r executables start up from the project manager (e.g. clm)? Does the project manager (prj) run? c) if bps.exe does exist and you start it manually from the graphic terminal are there any messages shown in the console? Regards, Jon Hand http://dl.dropbox.com/u/17785121/ESPr_Installers/README_cygwin_after_installer.txt http://dl.dropbox.com/u/17785121/ESPr_Installers/README_cygwin_before_installer.txt ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Ehsan Baharvand [ebaharvand at yahoo.com] Sent: 31 March 2011 18:29 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] prj -file *.cfg works but... Dear all, The bps (for simulation) doesn't open after re-installing ESP-r! I used Cygwin. BPS just doesn't appear on my screen when trying to open it through UGI as well as text shell commend! I have updated the new version of ESP-r using v11.10 run file. When using v11.7 the BPS works perfectly. Does anyone know what the problem is? Thanking you in advance. Kind Regards, E. Baharvand From ebaharvand at yahoo.com Fri Apr 1 10:14:23 2011 From: ebaharvand at yahoo.com (Ehsan Baharvand) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 02:14:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [esp-r] Re: solar chimney In-Reply-To: <719a795ace302c69513c79ca198a3627@212.203.77.242> References: <719a795ace302c69513c79ca198a3627@212.203.77.242> Message-ID: <507278.26656.qm@web121507.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Dear Achim, Please see my answers below: a) what is "massiv" (your back wall)? This?is the back wall. b) how long is your pre-simulation period, how long is your simulation period and what does "temperature does not change" mean? "Not at all" or "not as much as expected"? Pre-simulation = 12 days Simulation period = 1 day (24h) Time-step = 60 Integration per hour = yes ? The temperatures do not change at all. This holds for all the surface, air node temp or thermal db node temperature. c) what do you mean "wind effect is not included"? An afn takes wind into account by the cp-value table you must define for external nodes. I excluded the wind effect by using Cp=0 for all the directions. d) do the air changes (outside air) change with changed opening sizes? Yes, see attachtment Infiltration Load / Rate. e) how large are the air changes befor / after changing the opening sizes? See attachtment Infiltration Load / Rate. ? f) do you have a bypass in your stack to allow for downward air flow (night time)? Thanking you in advance. Kind regards, Ehsan ________________________________ From: Achim.geissler To: EhsanBaharvand ; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Sent: Fri, April 1, 2011 9:26:47 AM Subject: AW: [esp-r] solar chimney Dear Ehsan some questions for clarification to help understand your model: a) what is "massiv" (your back wall)? b) how long is your pre-simulation period, how long is your simulation period and what does "temperature does not change" mean? "Not at all" or "not as much as expected"? c) what do you mean "wind effect is not included"? An afn takes wind into account by the cp-value table you must define for external nodes. d) do the air changes (outside air) change with changed opening sizes? e) how large are the air changes befor / after changing the opening sizes? f) do you have a bypass in your stack to allow for downward air flow (night time)? Best Achim ?--------- Original-Nachricht -------- Von: "Ehsan Baharvand" An: "esp-r at lists.strath.ac.u! k" Betreff: [esp-r] solar chimney Datum: 01/04/11 09:05 Dear all, Problem The free-floating?of a solar chimney is simulated?and a upward stream due to the solar energy occurs.? However when increasing?the infiltration (colder ambient air) by increasing the opening area to outside the backwall inside surface temperature doesn't change!??Other thing is that the heat load inside the chimney is being removed by the infiltration air exchange. Eventhough I increase the infiltration air exchange, the heat load being removed increases, but the surface temperature of the backwall remains the same. Question Do I forget something? W! hat can be the problem? I'm certain about the configurations?and the Air Flow Network. Model The?22 zones solar chimney uses a air flow network and has 2 wind pressure boundary nodes at the inlet?and the outlet. Each zone has a separate connection with the outdoors through a air flow network connection, which simulates a opening between glazing panels meant for infiltration! The inlet and the outlet areas are connected to the ambient air thourgh a orifice with a?Cd of 0.67. Between the cubic thermal zones fictitious surfaces are used. The backwall is a massive construction with adiabatic BC at the surface outside node. At 1.8 meter distance from the backwall there is a glazing surface with a G-value of 0.8 and 80% of glass and it has a external BC. The chimney is South oriented for a Cl! imate catagory 3A according to Ashrae 90.l. Not included Wind effect?is not included. Kind regards, E. Baharvand ________________________________ _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r How to do this?But?there is no control on the air flow inside the chimney. The control is based on free-floating. 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Name: Issue 2 = Low infiltration Load.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 39582 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110401/7c28ae53/attachment-0008.jpe -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Issue 1 = High infiltration Rate.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 26479 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110401/7c28ae53/attachment-0009.jpe -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Issue 1 = High infiltration Load.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 44613 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110401/7c28ae53/attachment-0010.jpe -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Issue 2 = Low infiltration Rate.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 24110 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110401/7c28ae53/attachment-0011.jpe From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Sun Apr 3 21:57:56 2011 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2011 21:57:56 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: solar chimney In-Reply-To: <507278.26656.qm@web121507.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <719a795ace302c69513c79ca198a3627@212.203.77.242>, <507278.26656.qm@web121507.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA4130194A512A119@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> In an earlier email the simulation parameters were stated. What caught my attention was the 60 timesteps per hour with timestep integration turn ON. This will write out information once per hour. I suggest that you save the information at each timestep so that the actual flows and flux at each timestep is available for inspection. -Jon Hand ________________________________________ . . . b) how long is your pre-simulation period, how long is your simulation period and what does "temperature does not change" mean? "Not at all" or "not as much as expected"? Pre-simulation = 12 days Simulation period = 1 day (24h) Time-step = 60 Integration per hour = yes . . . Kind regards, Ehsan ________________________________ From ebaharvand at yahoo.com Mon Apr 4 15:06:22 2011 From: ebaharvand at yahoo.com (Ehsan Baharvand) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 07:06:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [esp-r] Re: solar chimney In-Reply-To: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA4130194A512A119@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> References: <719a795ace302c69513c79ca198a3627@212.203.77.242>, <507278.26656.qm@web121507.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA4130194A512A119@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> Message-ID: <636889.24981.qm@web121510.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hi, Thank you for your mail Jon. One?question to see if I'm interpreting things in a correct manner: ?When looking to volume flow rate and selecting a infiltration connection via Volume Flow Rate of AirFlow Result File?the flow rate becomes sometimes negative! What does Negative result mean actually? Does it mean that the air?is towards outdoors or from outdoors? Jon's question: Well, I checked the results?by?choosing the?timstep itegration turned OFF. The results stayed the same. I looked to the energy balance per thermal zone, and?the results?weren't so strange at all. Especially when looking?to the ratio of chimney's main stream and what comes in as infiltration air rate. It is 1/10 of the?chimney's main stream?with dT of 5 - 8?Kelvin depending on the height of the chimney!?? What attracted my attention was the infiltration rate direction per thermal zone! When looking more in detail - for a particular problem -? the ambient infiltration in the upper level of the chimney becomes negative. This means that the upper level air of the chimney goes simply to outside before it reaches the outlet of the system?! On the other side, the zones in the lower level have positive infiltration rates when looking to these connections. Thanking you in advance. Kind Regards, Ehsan ________________________________ From: Jon Hand To: Ehsan Baharvand ; Achim.geissler ; "esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk" Sent: Sun, April 3, 2011 10:57:56 PM Subject: RE: [esp-r] Re: solar chimney In an earlier email the simulation parameters were stated.? What caught my attention was the 60 timesteps per hour with timestep integration turn ON.? This will write out information once per hour.? I suggest that you save the information at each timestep so that the actual flows and flux at each timestep is available for inspection. -Jon Hand ________________________________________ . . . b) how long is your pre-simulation period, how long is your simulation period and what does "temperature does not change" mean? "Not at all" or "not as much as expected"? Pre-simulation = 12 days Simulation period = 1 day (24h) Time-step = 60 Integration per hour = yes . . . Kind regards, Ehsan ________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110404/cc5bf2f1/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Mon Apr 4 22:17:20 2011 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 22:17:20 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: solar chimney and understand flow patterns Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA4130194A512A11E@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> The positive and negative sign on the flow provides information on the direction of the flow - if you defined a connection from node A to node B then a positive flow is flow along the same direction as the connection was defined. I tend to define connections to the outside via the outside node to the inside node so that flows entering the zone are positive and flows leaving the room are negative. The ventilation and infiltration reporting of energy is, essentially the energy transfer implied by the movement of mass between the inside and outside (infiltration) or between two zones (ventilation) taking into account the temperature difference and the mass flow rate. cool air entering a room alters the zone energy balance and can be a negative flux. If you graph or list out the individual components of the zone energy balance on a timestep basis then a pattern might be observed. Flow into a zone shows up in the ventilation and infiltration reporting. Flow out of a room is noticed in the 'other' zone. Flow in a solar chimney might, in fact reverse under certain conditions. Buoyancy might be a weak driving force in comparison to pressure elsewhere. One hint - you can turn on trace of the network flow solution and that will dump out all of the flows and pressures at each timestep and sometimes it is easier to detect patterns of flow in that form than looking at the individual flow rates via the results analysis module. -Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: Ehsan Baharvand [ebaharvand at yahoo.com] Sent: 04 April 2011 15:06 To: Jon Hand Cc: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: Re: [esp-r] Re: solar chimney Hi, Thank you for your mail Jon. One question to see if I'm interpreting things in a correct manner: When looking to volume flow rate and selecting a infiltration connection via Volume Flow Rate of AirFlow Result File the flow rate becomes sometimes negative! What does Negative result mean actually? Does it mean that the air is towards outdoors or from outdoors? Jon's question: Well, I checked the results by choosing the timstep itegration turned OFF. The results stayed the same. I looked to the energy balance per thermal zone, and the results weren't so strange at all. Especially when looking to the ratio of chimney's main stream and what comes in as infiltration air rate. It is 1/10 of the chimney's main stream with dT of 5 - 8 Kelvin depending on the height of the chimney! What attracted my attention was the infiltration rate direction per thermal zone! When looking more in detail - for a particular problem - the ambient infiltration in the upper level of the chimney becomes negative. This means that the upper level air of the chimney goes simply to outside before it reaches the outlet of the system?! On the other side, the zones in the lower level have positive infiltration rates when looking to these connections. Thanking you in advance. Kind Regards, Ehsan ________________________________ From: Jon Hand To: Ehsan Baharvand ; Achim.geissler ; "esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk" Sent: Sun, April 3, 2011 10:57:56 PM Subject: RE: [esp-r] Re: solar chimney In an earlier email the simulation parameters were stated. What caught my attention was the 60 timesteps per hour with timestep integration turn ON. This will write out information once per hour. I suggest that you save the information at each timestep so that the actual flows and flux at each timestep is available for inspection. -Jon Hand ________________________________________ . . . b) how long is your pre-simulation period, how long is your simulation period and what does "temperature does not change" mean? "Not at all" or "not as much as expected"? Pre-simulation = 12 days Simulation period = 1 day (24h) Time-step = 60 Integration per hour = yes . . . Kind regards, Ehsan ________________________________ From david.garcias at gmail.com Tue Apr 5 10:37:13 2011 From: david.garcias at gmail.com (David Garcia) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2011 11:37:13 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Sky temperature hourly profile.... Message-ID: Hi all, I'm doing a simulation in permanent regime, and I need the results of ESP-r algorithm for the sky temperature. I see from the help that with trace facility we can get the sky temperature, but In fact I don't understand very well how it works. I was trying also to put simulation in mode 3 to get all temperature analysis, but I didn't get the sky temperature. Can someone give me a more easy way to get hourly sky temperature in ESP-r? Thanks in advance, -- David GARCIA SANCHEZ ------------------------------------------------------------ D?partement Syst?mes ?nerg?tiques Environnement Ecole des Mines de Nantes 4, Rue Alfred Kastler 44300 Nantes France ------------------------------------------------------------ Email: david.garcia-sanchez at emn.fr Tel: +33 (0) 2 51 85 82 14 Mobile: +33 (0) 6 78 15 08 09 Fax: +33 (0) 2 51 85 82 99 ------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110405/bb6ccb28/attachment.html From ikram7074 at yahoo.com Wed Apr 6 10:34:05 2011 From: ikram7074 at yahoo.com (akram dandu) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2011 02:34:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [esp-r] sub hourly climate data format Message-ID: <449725.48501.qm@web31408.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Dear All, I'm sorry. I've been trying to create a minute time step climate data format for the duration of 1 week via temporal database facilities (.tdfa) but I can't convert it to binary format. Please advice or anyone has such a file on that? Kind Regards, Akram -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110406/2c20ba96/attachment.html From g.sigalas at student.tue.nl Wed Apr 6 10:41:14 2011 From: g.sigalas at student.tue.nl (Sigalas, G.) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2011 11:41:14 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] PCM model used in Esp-r Message-ID: <5943B726A91E9B428D2A613E5900508C69B1D120BC@EXCHANGE13.campus.tue.nl> Dear Esp-r users, I am trying to investigate the effect of using Phase Change Materials in a lightweight residence construction. However I cannot understand which model is actually used. In the special material code file ''spmatl.F'' there are four components for PCMs, SPMCMP53-56. >From what I can understand, the calculations in esp-r are based on the older component 53. Components 54-56 from Sabine Hoffmann are not used. Am I wrong? Thank You, Georgios Sigalas -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110406/a41ba517/attachment.html From achim.geissler at intergga.ch Wed Apr 6 15:06:04 2011 From: achim.geissler at intergga.ch (Achim.geissler) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2011 16:06:04 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: PCM model used in Esp-r Message-ID: Dear Georgios all the models you cite can be used. No. 53 is the "legacy" model of ESP-r. Nos. 54 and 55 based on S. Hoffmann Thesis are destined for removal. No. 56 is an enhance model which allows for subcooling effects (not by S. Hoffmann, though). This model can be used in "simple" mode (similar to No. 53), also. Data generation for sub cooling mode can prove slightly difficult, as a set of parameters for a "best fit" function must be generated. Best Achim --------- Original-Nachricht -------- Von: "Sigalas, G." An: "esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk" Betreff: [esp-r] PCM model used in Esp-r Datum: 06/04/11 15:33 Dear Esp-r users,?I am trying to investigate the effect of using Phase Change Materials in a lightweight residence construction.?However I cannot understand which model is actually used.?In the special material code file ‘’spmatl.F’’ ?there are four components for PCMs, SPMCMP53-56.?From what I can understand, the calculations in ?esp-r are based on the older component 53.?Components 54-56 from Sabine Hoffmann are not used. Am I wrong??Thank You,Georgios Sigalas _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk (mailto:esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk" class="autolink) http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r (http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r" target="_blank" class="autolink) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110406/a899a598/attachment.html From achim.geissler at intergga.ch Wed Apr 6 15:06:57 2011 From: achim.geissler at intergga.ch (Achim.geissler) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2011 16:06:57 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Sky temperature hourly profile.... Message-ID: Dear David you can get the output of sky temperature by using the .xml output facility. Best Achim --------- Original-Nachricht -------- Von: "David Garcia" An: "esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk" Betreff: [esp-r] Sky temperature hourly profile.... Datum: 05/04/11 11:43 Hi all, I'm doing a simulation in permanent regime, and I need the results of ESP-r algorithm for the sky temperature. I see from the help that with trace facility we can get the sky temperature, but In fact I don't understand very well how it works. I was trying also to put simulation in mode 3 to get all temperature analysis, but I didn't get the sky temperature. Can someone give me a more easy way to get hourly sky temperature in ESP-r? Thanks in advance, -- David GARCIA SANCHEZ ------------------------------------------------------------ D?partement Syst?mes ?nerg?tiques Environnement Ecole des Mines de Nantes 4, Rue Alfred Kastler 44300 Nantes France ------------------------------------------------------------ Email: david.garcia-sanchez at emn.fr (mailto:david.garcia-sanchez at emn.fr) Tel: +33 (0) 2 51 85 82 14 Mobile: +33 (0) 6 78 15 08 09 Fax: +33 (0) 2 51 85 82 99 ------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk (mailto:esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk" class="autolink) http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r (http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r" target="_blank" class="autolink) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110406/9a9a1200/attachment.html From alaa.hashem at strath.ac.uk Wed Apr 6 15:37:26 2011 From: alaa.hashem at strath.ac.uk (Alaa Al-Mosawi) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2011 15:37:26 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: PCM model used in Esp-r In-Reply-To: <5943B726A91E9B428D2A613E5900508C69B1D120BC@EXCHANGE13.campus.tue.nl> References: <5943B726A91E9B428D2A613E5900508C69B1D120BC@EXCHANGE13.campus.tue.nl> Message-ID: <46120C758EA2164FAFF5CE25819E89F80130C80E3228@E2K7-MS3.ds.strath.ac.uk> Hello Georgios The first type 53 or PCM_CAP, it is (default type) a simple model with a minimal number of required data. The others ( I think the one with sub-cooling-needs a larger number of data ), must be added to the special components database called (mscomp.db1) to be active and can shown in special materials menu. Regards. Alaa ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Sigalas, G. [g.sigalas at student.tue.nl] Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 10:41 AM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] PCM model used in Esp-r Dear Esp-r users, I am trying to investigate the effect of using Phase Change Materials in a lightweight residence construction. However I cannot understand which model is actually used. In the special material code file ??spmatl.F?? there are four components for PCMs, SPMCMP53-56. >From what I can understand, the calculations in esp-r are based on the older component 53. Components 54-56 from Sabine Hoffmann are not used. Am I wrong? Thank You, Georgios Sigalas From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Thu Apr 7 02:36:09 2011 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2011 02:36:09 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: sub hourly climate data format - a brief tutorial Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA4130194A5FF7C0A@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> I have written a short tutorial on the use of short-time-step climate data in ESP-r models. I attach this below. I have also started work on a new exemplar model which demonstrates the use and linking of climate data so that future users will have less confusion. Regards, Jon Hand Working with short time-step climate data The standard climate data used by ESP-r is held in a binary climate file with hourly data. To work with short time-step climate data the information must be imported into an ESP-r temporal file and the entities linked with the model. Working examples of all climate data types (temperature, radiation, humidity, wind) can be found in the validation/CEN/15265 tests variants. An example of mixing standard climate data with a subset of climate data held in a temporal file can be found in the training/cg_ctl/daylit_coef folder. Temporal data is classified by type so that multiple columns of data can be grouped into a related concept. Temporal types associated with climate data are: ALLCLMT (6 columns of data), WINDVLT (wind velocity), WINDDRT (wind direction), RELHUMT (ambient relative humidity), DIFHSLT (diffuse horizontal solar), GLOHSLT (global horizontal solar), DIRSOLT (direct normal solar), GLOVRTT (globlal vertial solar). Entities included in a temporal file can be associated with a model. Some entities are associated with specific surfaces or zones and others apply to the whole model. Climate related data are an example of the latter. Once temporal entities are linked to a model they superceed other information sources e.g. an ESP-r model must include a standard climate file, but climate temporal entities are used instead of the climate data. With ALLCLMT types the full set of climate data is drawn from the temporal file. With the individual items such as RELHUMT only that relative humidity is taken from the temporal file and other climate data is taken from the standard climate file. An example of an ALLCLMT type is show below in an extract from the CEN Test_1_temporal.tdfa file. ALLCLMT includes 6 columns of data and a static flag indicating the type of radiation. In the section of the temporal file which holds the time-step data the first column is time in the form real number with the Julian day of the year with the fractional part of the number representing the fraction of the day. ASCIITDF3 # NWPR NITDF NTSPH itdyear,itdbdoy,itdedoy,columns 20 4 1 2007 1 365 13 # NEXTRC,NEXTCL,NDBSTP 1 14 8760 *tdaid1,-climate data for 15265 validation tests *tdaid2,- *items *tag,TempSolar *type,ALLCLMT *menu,VERTSOL Climate *aide,Site climate *other, 1 6 *fields, 7 INTG 1 0 0 0 123 Radiation flag (0=DN 123=GH): REAL 2 1 0.000 0.000 600.000 Diffuse hor solar rad (W/m2): REAL 3 2 10.000 -49.000 49.000 Ambient DB temperature (C): REAL 4 3 0.000 0.000 700.000 Direct solar (W/m2): REAL 5 4 0.000 0.000 49.000 Wind velocity (m/s): REAL 6 5 0.000 0.000 360.000 Wind direction (deg clockwise): REAL 7 6 50.000 0.000 100.000 Relative humidity (%): *end_item *items . . . *tabular_data # Time Col 1 Col 2 Col 3 Col 4 Col 5 Col 6 Col 7 Col 8... 1.0417,0.00,4.7000,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00 1.0833,0.00,4.6000,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00 1.1250,0.00,4.5000,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00 1.1667,0.00,4.5000,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00 1.2083,0.00,4.2000,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00 1.2500,0.00,3.6000,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00 1.2917,0.00,3.5000,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00 1.3333,0.00,3.4000,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00 1.3750,21.800,3.0000,5.6000,0.00,0.00,0.00 1.4167,16.600,2.9000,0.50000,0.00,0.00,0.00 1.4583,57.500,3.2000,3.1000,0.00,0.00,0.00 1.5000,97.800,3.6000,7.1000,0.00,0.00,0.00 1.5417,54.900,4.0000,2.1000,0.00,0.00,0.00 1.5833,73.700,4.2000,5.1000,0.00,0.00,0.00 1.6250,54.500,4.6000,5.6000,0.00,0.00,0.00 1.6667,11.000,5.0000,1.4000,0.00,0.00,0.00 1.7083,0.00,4.9000,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00 1.7500,0.00,4.6000,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00 1.7917,0.00,4.4000,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00 . . . Working with temporal climate data requires several steps. Facilities to create a temporal file and manage temporal entities and import data are found in the project manager -> browse/edit/simulate -> model context -> impose measured data. The help text for the [Temporal file options:] menu provides a general overview of the process. If you are exploring a model which already includes a temporal file then in the [Temporal file options:] menu you might begin by choosing the option to edit/browse the temporal file. Note the names and index of the entities of interest to you. Next select the [list associations] to see the entities that are actually used. If you want to associate a new entity then select the [manage associations] option and select the option for adding an association and the type in the index of the entity. For climate items it will automatically assume that the entity will be associated with the whole model. Finally exit the temporal facility and update the model configuration file. To check that the temporal data is being used you can create a model contents report. And of course you should also do a simulation and look at the predictions in the results analysis module. Note that if you turn on monitoring during the simulation the ambient temperature drawn is taken from the standard climate file. ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of akram dandu [ikram7074 at yahoo.com] Sent: 06 April 2011 10:34 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] sub hourly climate data format Dear All, I'm sorry. I've been trying to create a minute time step climate data format for the duration of 1 week via temporal database facilities (.tdfa) but I can't convert it to binary format. Please advice or anyone has such a file on that? Kind Regards, Akram From cathal.quinn at ucdconnect.ie Fri Apr 8 17:57:33 2011 From: cathal.quinn at ucdconnect.ie (Cathal Quinn) Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2011 17:57:33 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Recompiling esp-r on windows Message-ID: <7360c3395765.4d9f4c8d@ucd.ie> Dear All, As part of my project I have to edit a few line in the convect2.f source file. I am now having trouble working out how to recompile and run esp-r on my windows 7 machine. The Readme.txt file contained in the "src" directory seems to only contain instructions for installation on a linux machine?? Anyone know how I can recompile the source code on windows? Thanks in advance. Cathal -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110408/fd0761da/attachment.html From achim.geissler at intergga.ch Sun Apr 10 20:42:53 2011 From: achim.geissler at intergga.ch (Achim Geissler) Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2011 21:42:53 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Recompiling esp-r on windows In-Reply-To: <7360c3395765.4d9f4c8d@ucd.ie> References: <7360c3395765.4d9f4c8d@ucd.ie> Message-ID: <6FE1792D-DAAD-4480-BE99-D145557E6FE7@intergga.ch> Dear Cathal there is a readme in the source tree (manual/OS) for each operating system. The likely easiest way is to set up Cygwin on Windows 7. Then, you have a "unix like" environment and compilation is a breeze. Best Achim On Apr 8, 2011, at 6:57 PM, Cathal Quinn wrote: > > Dear All, > > > As part of my project I have to edit a few line in the convect2.f source file. I am now having trouble working out how to recompile and run esp-r on my windows 7 machine. The Readme.txt file contained in the "src" directory seems to only contain instructions for installation on a linux machine?? Anyone know how I can recompile the source code on windows? > > Thanks in advance. > > Cathal > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r achim.geissler at intergga.ch From sr880710 at dal.ca Mon Apr 11 20:25:56 2011 From: sr880710 at dal.ca (Sara Nikoofard) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 16:25:56 -0300 Subject: [esp-r] compiling error Message-ID: <001101cbf87e$4835e350$d8a1a9f0$@ca> Hi All, I am trying to install ESP-r after overwrote it by development_branch and add some changes to different files, but in compiling bps I get this error, I appreciate any suggestion. The error is in esrubld/casual.F line 478: "PI = 4.0 * ATAN(1.0)" Error: Expected variable at (1). I don't have any clue where this problem come from. And this part is added by development_branch I didn't change anything there or related to that. Thanks, -- Sara Nikoofard Room C254A, Department of Mechanical Engineering, Dalhousie University, Halifax, NS Phone: (902)494-3165 email: s.nikoofard at dal.ca -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110411/38076823/attachment.html From achim.geissler at intergga.ch Tue Apr 12 08:04:45 2011 From: achim.geissler at intergga.ch (Achim.geissler) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2011 09:04:45 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: compiling error Message-ID: <42f6fcccbaa6fc85938f316ab92fb950@212.203.77.242> Hi Sara where, exactly, is the "1" in the error output? As a first idea, check out your last version of the offending file and create a diff between this and the current one (diff old new > file.dif) and see if you find any changes in the vicinity of the error. Best Achim --------- Original-Nachricht -------- Von: "Sara Nikoofard" An: "esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk" Betreff: [esp-r] compiling error Datum: 11/04/11 23:07 Hi All, ?I am trying to install ESP-r after overwrote it by development_branch and add some changes to different files, but in compiling bps I get this error, I appreciate any suggestion.?The error is in esrubld/casual.F line 478:"PI = 4.0 * ATAN(1.0)"?Error: Expected variable at (1).?I don’t have any clue where this problem come from. And this part is added by development_branch I didn’t change anything there or related to that.?Thanks,?--Sara NikoofardRoom C254A, Department of Mechanical Engineering, Dalhousie University, Halifax, NSPhone: (902)494-3165email:? s.nikoofard at dal.ca (mailto:s.nikoofard at dal.ca)? _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk (mailto:esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk" class="autolink) http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r (http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r" target="_blank" class="autolink) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110412/5c2e0e27/attachment.html From mohdhafiziejaafar at yahoo.com Fri Apr 15 12:33:25 2011 From: mohdhafiziejaafar at yahoo.com (mohd hafizie jaafar) Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 04:33:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [esp-r] problem error. Message-ID: <402558.56290.qm@web43416.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> version of ESP-r : v11 operation system : windows vista i still studying this software. i follow the design step by step like on cookbook 2010. my problem is when i push the button 'made from existing vertices' to complete window part on the room that separate with other room, the software is stop running automatically. i not be able to complete the design. the other problem is sometime when i key in the input data, the system cannot keeping the data. then i need to fill it again. (Mohd Hafizie) student Air Cond. & Ind. Ref. department, University kuala Lumpur. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110415/d806cf8c/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Sun Apr 17 09:31:20 2011 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2011 09:31:20 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: problem error. In-Reply-To: <402558.56290.qm@web43416.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <402558.56290.qm@web43416.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA4130194A73237DD@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> Two issues in this email - The 'made from existing vertices' was corrected after the official branch was released so you will want to download the BETA version. The 2nd issue - there are hundreds of dialogs and many of these cause data to be written into model files. If information is not remembered/writen this indicates a problem with writing files. Ensure that when you are working with models you do this in a folder structure that you have permission to write to. Also ensure that your LOCALE is set to UK or USA (where the decimal is a dot). A comma decimal point will destroy models very quickly. It there are specific dialogs where data is not remembered it would be helpful to identify these - which modules? - which tasks? -Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of mohd hafizie jaafar [mohdhafiziejaafar at yahoo.com] Sent: 15 April 2011 12:33 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] problem error. version of ESP-r : v11 operation system : windows vista i still studying this software. i follow the design step by step like on cookbook 2010. my problem is when i push the button 'made from existing vertices' to complete window part on the room that separate with other room, the software is stop running automatically. i not be able to complete the design. the other problem is sometime when i key in the input data, the system cannot keeping the data. then i need to fill it again. (Mohd Hafizie) student Air Cond. & Ind. Ref. department, University kuala Lumpur. From mohdhafiziejaafar at yahoo.com Mon Apr 18 20:22:01 2011 From: mohdhafiziejaafar at yahoo.com (mohd hafizie jaafar) Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2011 12:22:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [esp-r] (no subject) Message-ID: <18621.15355.qm@web43403.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> system operation: windows vista i have been install ESP-r BETA version. i use to design single story building. i want to know why when i add door on the wall then other point on surface appear for example i add on n point then m point exist with zero. then when i delete m point, n point also disappear. when this happen, i use topology to fixed it, but the software closed automatically. (Mohd Hafizie) student Air Cond. & Ind. Ref. department, University kuala Lumpur. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110418/ecc4192b/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Tue Apr 19 09:05:00 2011 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 09:05:00 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <18621.15355.qm@web43403.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <18621.15355.qm@web43403.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA4130194A73237E2@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> It would help to have a screen shot focused on the ESP-r application in order to understand this issue. It would also be useful to understand if other parts of ESP-r are working on your machine..... a) Can you load one of the exemplar models and run a simulation? b) Were you able to add windows in walls ok? Is the localle set so that the decimal point in real numbers is a dot? -Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of mohd hafizie jaafar [mohdhafiziejaafar at yahoo.com] Sent: 18 April 2011 20:22 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] (no subject) system operation: windows vista i have been install ESP-r BETA version. i use to design single story building. i want to know why when i add door on the wall then other point on surface appear for example i add on n point then m point exist with zero. then when i delete m point, n point also disappear. when this happen, i use topology to fixed it, but the software closed automatically. (Mohd Hafizie) student Air Cond. & Ind. Ref. department, University kuala Lumpur. From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Tue Apr 19 11:14:15 2011 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 11:14:15 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] about graphics windowing on Cygwin Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA4130194A73237E4@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> I am updating the guidance about the use of Cygwin (I downloaded a fresh Cygwin and am updating the documentation to match this). One topic that is rather terse is about the graphic environment - I tend to run startxwin so that I have a graphic X11 terminal in addition to the text command terminal. This is a minimalist approach which takes minimal resources and it would be good to talk about options. I am sure there are ways to start up a window manager and dock that is more in the line of what one would see on Linux boxes. It might require additional package installs so that would also be good to know. I asked for the full Gnome set. Any suggestions or dot files or instructions would be appreciated. Regards, Jon Hand From cathal.quinn at ucdconnect.ie Tue Apr 19 18:32:47 2011 From: cathal.quinn at ucdconnect.ie (Cathal Quinn) Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 18:32:47 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Naturally ventilated office cooling loads Message-ID: <73a0f6b217938.4dadd54f@ucd.ie> Dear All, I am currently modelling an office space and comparing a simple heating/cooling scenario with a naturally ventilated scenario The control parameters I have implement are from 22-26 degrees with my windows set to open using the range based command from 23-26 degrees with the high setpoint at 24. My simulation period is from April to September (cooling season) using the Dublin weather file. Its quite a similar scenario setup to the training model on natural ventilation included with the ESP-r distribution. My question is simply can anyone provide me with a clear explanation as to why introducing a natural ventilation strategy such as this increases my heating load quite substantially. I know its probably the voice of inexperience talking but I would have imagined the heating load to remain relatively constant while the cooling load drops Thanking you in advance for any help provided Kind Regards Cathal -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110419/38fc0178/attachment.html From A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk Thu Apr 21 14:42:56 2011 From: A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk (A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2011 13:42:56 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] courses Message-ID: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C1212E9E8CB5@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> Dear All, I am interested in participating to an ESP-r course on air flow network and controls. Is anyone else interested and would be possible to organize that in May-June? Thank you, kind regards. Arianna Sdei ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110421/cb7002c0/attachment.html From achim.geissler at intergga.ch Sun Apr 24 12:57:04 2011 From: achim.geissler at intergga.ch (Achim Geissler) Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2011 13:57:04 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Naturally ventilated office cooling loads In-Reply-To: <73a0f6b217938.4dadd54f@ucd.ie> References: <73a0f6b217938.4dadd54f@ucd.ie> Message-ID: <2E1ABB4E-93CB-4A1A-B46C-AADB299C057A@intergga.ch> Dear Cathal what was your (constant?) air change rate without the natural ventilation and what is your air change rate (wind/buoyancy driven) with natural ventilation at times where external temperature is below your heating set point? Did you plot supplied heat, ambient temperature and air change rate vs. time in res for both cases? Possibly you can find the explanation there. Best Achim On Apr 19, 2011, at 7:32 PM, Cathal Quinn wrote: > > Dear All, > > I am currently modelling an office space and comparing a simple heating/cooling scenario with a naturally ventilated scenario > The control parameters I have implement are from 22-26 degrees with my windows set to open using the range based command from 23-26 degrees with the high setpoint at 24. My simulation period is from April to September (cooling season) using the Dublin weather file. Its quite a similar scenario setup to the training model on natural ventilation included with the ESP-r distribution. My question is simply can anyone provide me with a clear explanation as to why introducing a natural ventilation strategy such as this increases my heating load quite substantially. I know its probably the voice of inexperience talking but I would have imagined the heating load to remain relatively constant while the cooling load drops > > Thanking you in advance for any help provided > > Kind Regards > Cathal > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r achim.geissler at intergga.ch From jrichie.greenroofs at gmail.com Tue Apr 26 19:30:36 2011 From: jrichie.greenroofs at gmail.com (Jordan Richie) Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 14:30:36 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] Re: export energy plus files In-Reply-To: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA4130177E98EBFDD@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> References: <076B831E3BD70140B69F1D47DF456F4A2B52FDCACD@MBX.nottingham.edu.cn> <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA4130177E98EBFDD@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> Message-ID: Hi everyone, I'm working with an EnergyPlus reference model (from the DOE Commercial Building Initiative) and I'd like to use the exact same materials and constructions in an ESP-r model. Here's the properties I can extract from the EnergyPlus model: Conductivity Density Specific Heat Thermal Absorptance Solar Absorptance Visible Absorptance Does thermal absorptance in EnergyPlus correspond to "emissivity" in ESP-r? I'm assuming the Solar Absorptance in EnergyPlus corresponds to Absorptivity in ESP-r. Correct? How about Visible Absorptance? Many thanks Jordan Richie On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 8:42 PM, Jon Hand wrote: > > An update - I am working on export from ESP-r to V3.0 IDF files. I think I > have worked out > the logic for geometric export so that 'doors' in ESP-r will be correctly > exported. I have > also updated most of the export of casual gains to use the newer common > blocks (that is > still work in progress and needs testing) > > Although there is a general movement in the ESP-r community to explicitly > represent frames around > windows this creates a parent/child/grandchild situation which E+ really > does not like. One > idea is to split the parent surface in two so that the frame is no longer a > child surface. > > This work should be finished in the next couple of weeks and should make > its want into > the development branch. > > The reverse operation of scanning in an E+ IDF file - that should be > technically possible > and the question is whether there is sufficient interest in the community > to make it > worth doing. > > -Jon Hand > ________________________________________ > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] > On Behalf Of Georgios KOKOGIANNAKIS [ > Georgios.KOKOGIANNAKIS at nottingham.edu.cn] > Sent: 31 December 2010 00:05 > To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk; A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk > Subject: [esp-r] FW: export energy plus files > > Arianna, > > I should have read your question a bit more carefully. I am not aware of a > way to convert an E+ model into an ESP-r model. I thought you were asking > the opposite. > > Best regards, > Georgios > > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto: > esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Georgios KOKOGIANNAKIS > Sent: Friday, December 31, 2010 7:54 AM > To: A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Subject: [esp-r] Re: export energy plus files > > Arianna, > > The answer to your first question is yes but only to version 2.0 of > EnergyPlus. You can then use the EnergyPlus transition utilities to bring > your E+ model back to the latest version. The conversion from ESP-r to E+ is > done only for the basic model features (geometry, materials and basic > operations). It has been many years since I did this but I remember there is > one limitation in the process: make sure your model does not have any doors. > You can find the export option in the first menu of Project Manager (press > ?export current model?). > > The answer to your second question is again yes. However, I think that you > need to convert your model files from DOS format into UNIX format and you > need to correct the lines in the model files that include ?C:/Esru/?? into > whatever folder your model is in the cygwin area. There are many easy ways > to do this process. I tend to use editors such as ?Notepad++? in Windows or > ?Nedit? in Linux (same for cygwin). There was a script somewhere in the > source code I think that could do all this automatically but I have never > tried that. > > Best regards, > > Georgios > > > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto: > esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk > Sent: Friday, December 31, 2010 1:17 AM > To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Subject: [esp-r] export energy plus files > > Dear All, > > does anyone know if it?s possible to export energy plus models into ESP-r? > And can cfg files created by the native windows version of ESP-r be open and > modified by the cygwin version? > > Thank you, very happy new year to all! Kind regards, > Arianna > > ___________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security > System on behalf of the University of Brighton. > For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ > ___________________________________________________________ > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110426/6e359451/attachment.html From tayoshokunbi at black-silver.com Wed Apr 27 13:17:27 2011 From: tayoshokunbi at black-silver.com (Tayo Shokunbi [Black Silver]) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 13:17:27 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Help with setting up ESP-r on OS-X 10.6 Message-ID: <3848A558-2B75-4E8D-ACA0-58A31D619686@black-silver.com> Hello I'm new to the ESP-r world and would like some help with installing it on my Mac. I have downloaded the compressed X11 (not the BETA version) files but when I unzip and try to run, nothing happens. I have tried to set the environmental variables, but do not see the .cshrc file in the root directory, so couldn't set the PATH. When I eventually type "which prj" at the comman prompt, nothing happens. Typing "prj" just gives the error message "bash: prj: command not found" Could anyone please assist to help me get up & running? Thanks TS Sent from my iPad DISCLAIMER This message and its attachment(s) contain(s) privileged and confidential information and is intended for the individual(s) named. If you are not the recipient you should not disseminate, distribute, store, print, copy or deliver this message (nor it's contents). Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message (nor it's attachments), which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required please request a hard- copy version. From Alex.Ferguson at NRCan-RNCan.gc.ca Thu Apr 28 21:43:11 2011 From: Alex.Ferguson at NRCan-RNCan.gc.ca (Ferguson, Alex) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 16:43:11 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Some bugs in subsys.F ? In-Reply-To: <4DB98F5A.7000701@esru.strath.ac.uk> References: <28396844bd4817e53adb29e80dc75cf8@212.203.77.242> <4DB98F5A.7000701@esru.strath.ac.uk> Message-ID: Greetings from windy Ottawa! I'm the author of recent changes [r6485] to subsys.F that alter use of the PREC5N variables. In this revision, I modified MZVNT to allow more flexibility in specifying infiltration air flow. These changes permit switching from one air flow computation method to another (AIM-2, scheduled flow and air-flow network) mid-simulation depending on the operating conditions in the building. Prior to r6485, ESP-r held air infiltration and ventilation flow conductance in the CVIN and CVVN arrays, in common PREC5N. By default, ESP-r assumes that the air flow rates are specified by hourly schedules in the .opr file. CVIN and CVVN thus contain up to 72 separate flow rates for each zone: one for each hour (1-24) in each of the three day types (weekday/Saturday/Sunday). The routine MZVENC establishes values CVIN and CVVN prior to commencing simulation using the static air change rates specified in the .opr file. During the simulation, ESP-r reads the infiltration and ventilation data for the current hour and day type from these arrays. Rather than create a specific data structure, the air flow network exploited the same variables for imposing network-computed infiltration and ventilation flows on the building thermal model. There two deficiencies with this approach: * It's cumbersome. Because CVIN and CVVN are designed to hold hourly schedules, the air-flow network had to locate the correct array location (that is, the current day type and hour) to save the data in, even though these parameters had no relevance to the air-flow network computation. This not only requires extra code; it also obfuscates the purpose of the CVIN/CVVN arrays. * It erases the original schedules held in CVIN and CVVN. These arrays are populated prior to simulation by routine MZVENC. By repurposing them, the air flow network overwrites the original flow schedules with time-step computed values. This prevents re-imposing the .opr schedules mid-simulation-a key objective in our work. For these reasons, I elected to revise routines MZVENT and MFLW2B to use dedicated variables when imposing infiltration and ventilation on the building thermal domain. I introduced a new common block AfnToBldData common for this purpose. Regarding your observations Sara, I'm not sure I understand your comments. When the opr schedule or AIM-2 models are in effect, ventilation is still governed by the hourly ventilation schedule-and therefore should be established via CVVN as per line 1769. I'm also unsure what you're suggesting regarding line 1897. The if statement has two clauses: bAFN = TRUE for air flow networks, and an else clause otherwise. Am I missing something? Thanks, - Alex Alex Ferguson Housing, Buildings and Communities Group CanmetENERGY Natural Resources Canada P:+1 613 995 3294 F:+1 613 996 9909 Alex.Ferguson at NRCan-RNCan.gc.ca ________________________________ From: Joe Clarke [mailto:joe at esru.strath.ac.uk] Sent: April 28, 2011 12:02 To: core_developers at espr.list.cvsdude.com Subject: Re: AW: Some bugs in subsys.F ? Dear All In relation to Sara's recent post below, I have made changes to ESP-r to enable the coupling of non-air flow networks to building models to allow the use of ESP-r's building-side features in plant modelling. I use the variables in common PREC5N extensively. The changes are at present resident in my branch and not yet integrated in development_branch. Regards, Joe I want to only give a heads up in a mistake occurred in development_branch which should be fixed. It reflected in commit log 6618. Since the fluid flow network solver no longer changes the PREC5N variables and data is stored in the dedicated AfnToBldData common variables, the calculation of CV1, CV2 and other related parameters there for AIM2 in subsys.F should be changed (line 1769 in development_branch). Using the current version cannot calculate CVVF in the mode of AIM2 or OPR, so they have to be changed (which you can see in commit log 6618). Another issue is in CVVFM modification line 1902. The if statement which is in line 1897 is wrong, it doesn't account for other type of air flow network which should consider them. It is also reflected in commit log 6618. Best Regards, Sara Nikoofard Room C254A, Department of Mechanical Engineering, Dalhousie University, Halifax, NS Phone: (902)494-3165 email: s.nikoofard at dal.ca -- Professor J A Clarke email: joe at esru.strath.ac.uk ESRU, Dept. of Mechanical Eng. phone: +44 141 548 3986 University of Strathclyde fax: +44 141 552 5105 Glasgow G1 1XJ, UK http://www.esru.strath.ac.uk/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110428/d4bbb2d8/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Fri Apr 29 16:41:44 2011 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:41:44 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: export energy plus files In-Reply-To: References: <076B831E3BD70140B69F1D47DF456F4A2B52FDCACD@MBX.nottingham.edu.cn> <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA4130177E98EBFDD@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk>, Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA4130194A84772A6@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> There is really no visible absorptance material property in ESP-r databases. The solver is dealing with the solar spectrum. Visable properties are reported on for daylighting calculations and are sent to Radiance for example. Solar absorptance should be the same in both simulation environments and E+ thermal absorptance if the long-wave band. Both tools assume that absorptance equals emissivity in the long-wave band. If you want to be sure.... after creating your model and ESP-r databases export your model to E+ and look and see if the values turn out to be equivalent. This would also allow you to check whether your geometry also matches. -Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Jordan Richie [jrichie.greenroofs at gmail.com] Sent: 26 April 2011 19:30 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Re: export energy plus files Hi everyone, I'm working with an EnergyPlus reference model (from the DOE Commercial Building Initiative) and I'd like to use the exact same materials and constructions in an ESP-r model. Here's the properties I can extract from the EnergyPlus model: Conductivity Density Specific Heat Thermal Absorptance Solar Absorptance Visible Absorptance Does thermal absorptance in EnergyPlus correspond to "emissivity" in ESP-r? I'm assuming the Solar Absorptance in EnergyPlus corresponds to Absorptivity in ESP-r. Correct? How about Visible Absorptance? Many thanks Jordan Richie On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 8:42 PM, Jon Hand > wrote: An update - I am working on export from ESP-r to V3.0 IDF files. I think I have worked out the logic for geometric export so that 'doors' in ESP-r will be correctly exported. I have also updated most of the export of casual gains to use the newer common blocks (that is still work in progress and needs testing) Although there is a general movement in the ESP-r community to explicitly represent frames around windows this creates a parent/child/grandchild situation which E+ really does not like. One idea is to split the parent surface in two so that the frame is no longer a child surface. This work should be finished in the next couple of weeks and should make its want into the development branch. The reverse operation of scanning in an E+ IDF file - that should be technically possible and the question is whether there is sufficient interest in the community to make it worth doing. -Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Georgios KOKOGIANNAKIS [Georgios.KOKOGIANNAKIS at nottingham.edu.cn] Sent: 31 December 2010 00:05 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk; A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] FW: export energy plus files Arianna, I should have read your question a bit more carefully. I am not aware of a way to convert an E+ model into an ESP-r model. I thought you were asking the opposite. Best regards, Georgios From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Georgios KOKOGIANNAKIS Sent: Friday, December 31, 2010 7:54 AM To: A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Re: export energy plus files Arianna, The answer to your first question is yes but only to version 2.0 of EnergyPlus. You can then use the EnergyPlus transition utilities to bring your E+ model back to the latest version. The conversion from ESP-r to E+ is done only for the basic model features (geometry, materials and basic operations). It has been many years since I did this but I remember there is one limitation in the process: make sure your model does not have any doors. You can find the export option in the first menu of Project Manager (press ?export current model?). The answer to your second question is again yes. However, I think that you need to convert your model files from DOS format into UNIX format and you need to correct the lines in the model files that include ?C:/Esru/?? into whatever folder your model is in the cygwin area. There are many easy ways to do this process. I tend to use editors such as ?Notepad++? in Windows or ?Nedit? in Linux (same for cygwin). There was a script somewhere in the source code I think that could do all this automatically but I have never tried that. Best regards, Georgios From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk Sent: Friday, December 31, 2010 1:17 AM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] export energy plus files Dear All, does anyone know if it?s possible to export energy plus models into ESP-r? And can cfg files created by the native windows version of ESP-r be open and modified by the cygwin version? Thank you, very happy new year to all! Kind regards, Arianna ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk Mon May 2 15:35:03 2011 From: A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk (A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk) Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 14:35:03 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] ground Message-ID: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C1212E9E929F@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> Dear All, I am experiencing a problem with ESP-r that seem to have no solution at the moment. I would like to ask you to please help, I am modelling a solid floor and by using the monthly ground profile for the boundary condition of the floor ESP-r gives me unrealistic results for the heat loss (the heat loss through the ground floor is double the heat loss through the ceiling). Moreover, if I insulate the ground floor with 4 centimetres of EPS, the heating load is cut by 40% which is even more unrealistic. I have tried with the BASESIMP method but it does not seem to work. Please help. Kind regards. Arianna ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110502/eca96f57/attachment.html From ingfimo at gmail.com Mon May 2 16:03:47 2011 From: ingfimo at gmail.com (Filippo Monari) Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 17:03:47 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] installation problem Message-ID: Hi I'm a new user of esp-r. I'm trying to run esp-r on my ubuntu 10.04 64 bit box (I use a CAElinux distribution). I've download the source code with subversion, compiled and installed it under the home/myname/esp-r directory with the command ./Intall -d ....... Now, when i try to run esp-r with the command ./esp-r i receive this error message: ./esp-r: line 8: prj: command not found Then, suspecting that the problem was in the prj file I tried to run it and seems work fine. I didn't update my environment variable, could be this the problem? If you can help me I would be glad. Kind regards, Filippo Monari -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110502/a9640f69/attachment.html From achim.geissler at intergga.ch Mon May 2 16:29:53 2011 From: achim.geissler at intergga.ch (Achim Geissler) Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 17:29:53 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: installation problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <068A1B05-A013-4A70-9639-3C37237F5297@intergga.ch> Dear Filippo yes, most likely your environment (PATH) variable is the problem if you can run prj when called directly. What do you get for "which prj"? Best Achim On May 2, 2011, at 5:03 PM, Filippo Monari wrote: > Hi I'm a new user of esp-r. > I'm trying to run esp-r on my ubuntu 10.04 64 bit box (I use a > CAElinux distribution). > I've download the source code with subversion, compiled and installed it > under the home/myname/esp-r directory with the command ./Intall -d ....... > Now, when i try to run esp-r with the command ./esp-r i receive this > error message: > > ./esp-r: line 8: prj: command not found > > Then, suspecting that the problem was in the prj file I tried to run it > and seems work fine. > I didn't update my environment variable, could be this the problem? > If you can help me I would be glad. > Kind regards, > Filippo Monari > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r achim.geissler at intergga.ch -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110502/ec2dcde7/attachment.html From achim.geissler at intergga.ch Mon May 2 16:32:40 2011 From: achim.geissler at intergga.ch (Achim Geissler) Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 17:32:40 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: ground In-Reply-To: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C1212E9E929F@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> References: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C1212E9E929F@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> Message-ID: <26BE6084-A2C8-4624-BD44-678FBD133BE6@intergga.ch> Hi Arianna what are the U-values of your floor and roof, respectively? Have you done a simple calculation "DT * U" for both and compared these? Also, the first four cm of insulation is the most effective. So, your 40% reduction need not be totally off. Best Achim On May 2, 2011, at 4:35 PM, A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk wrote: > Dear All, > > I am experiencing a problem with ESP-r that seem to have no solution at the moment. I would like to ask you to please help, I am modelling a solid floor and by using the monthly ground profile for the boundary condition of the floor ESP-r gives me unrealistic results for the heat loss (the heat loss through the ground floor is double the heat loss through the ceiling). Moreover, if I insulate the ground floor with 4 centimetres of EPS, the heating load is cut by 40% which is even more unrealistic. I have tried with the BASESIMP method but it does not seem to work. Please help. > > Kind regards. > Arianna > > ___________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security > System on behalf of the University of Brighton. > For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ > ___________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r achim.geissler at intergga.ch -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110502/82889871/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Mon May 2 17:50:30 2011 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 17:50:30 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: installation problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA4130194A84772AF@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> When installing from source you do need to give the operating system some instructions about where to find the ESP-r executables. There are several ways to do this - one way is to ensure that the PATH environment variable gets set to include the folder where the ESP-r executables are located on your machine. Instructions for editing the .profile file or the .cshrc file are included in the instructions_for_linux_installer.txt file that is attached to this email. A second approach is to create a bin folder under your home folder and use the link_to script to setup links from that folder to actual location of the ESP-r executables. This is also discussed in the attached file. Note that the link_to script requires that your machine have the csh installed (easy to do on Ubuntu). And this is also discussed in the ESP-r Developers Guid which is available on the download site (good reading for those who install via compile). -Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Filippo Monari [ingfimo at gmail.com] Sent: 02 May 2011 16:03 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] installation problem Hi I'm a new user of esp-r. I'm trying to run esp-r on my ubuntu 10.04 64 bit box (I use a CAElinux distribution). I've download the source code with subversion, compiled and installed it under the home/myname/esp-r directory with the command ./Intall -d ....... Now, when i try to run esp-r with the command ./esp-r i receive this error message: ./esp-r: line 8: prj: command not found Then, suspecting that the problem was in the prj file I tried to run it and seems work fine. I didn't update my environment variable, could be this the problem? If you can help me I would be glad. Kind regards, Filippo Monari -------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: instructions_for_linux_installer.txt Url: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110502/5893a377/attachment.txt From Gunter.Pueltz at MuellerBBM.de Wed May 4 12:39:25 2011 From: Gunter.Pueltz at MuellerBBM.de (Pueltz, Gunter) Date: Wed, 4 May 2011 13:39:25 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Underrelaxing by using Timestep-controller 4 Message-ID: <324E563ADB028A4CAF79CE7CD1941A20163ED2@s-muc-ex02.mbbm-group.com> Dear ESP-specialists and developer, for a simulation project with 2 big rooms, which are connected by a large opening and thus show an intensive bidirectional air flow (= intensive air exchange between the 2 zones, see attached screenshot Simulation-model.png), I am using Timestep-controller 4 and a small timestep (10 min). If I do NOT use the underrelaxation-method for the new air-flow-values (the default in source file mfmach.F is, that the do-loop 2222 for underrelaxing the new air-flow-values is commented out; see mFmach.F line 522 - 530 resp. attached screenshot mFmach-line522-530.png), ESP struggles with very intensive oscillations (see attached screenshot results-without-relaxation.png). If this underrelaxation do-loop 2222 is activated (relaxation-factor = 0.25), these oscillations do not appear anymore (see attached screenshot results-with-relaxation.png). The first thing I want to point out is, that these results induce NOT to comment out this underrelaxation do-loop 2222 in future versions of ESP-r ! If the do-loop 2222 is activated manually, a second problem occurs unfortunately : The boolean variable itrpas should be greater zero, if timestep-controller 4 is used (see mfmach.F, line 523). But I found, that itrpas ALWAYS is zero, even while using timestep-controller 4 !?!?! For me it seems, that itrpas is not set to its correct value ... I would like to recommend the ESP-developers to fix this bug ;-) Moreover I am wondering that only one, single user of ESP-r seems to face this problem with oscillations, which are caused by large openings between two thermal domains within a building, inducing an intensive air exchange ... ??? -Gunter -- Dr. Gunter P?ltz M?ller-BBM GmbH Robert-Koch-Stra?e 11 82152 Planegg Telefon +49(89)85602-336 Telefax +49(89)85602-111 E-Mail Gunter.Pueltz at MuellerBBM.de http://www.MuellerBBM.de HRB M?nchen 86143 Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Horst Christian Gass, Bernd Gr?zinger, Dr. Carl-Christian Hantschk, Stefan Schierer, Dr. Edwin Schorer, Norbert Suritsch -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Simulation-model.png Type: image/png Size: 42700 bytes Desc: Simulation-model.png Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110504/a787cfa8/attachment-0004.png -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: mFmach-line522-530.png Type: image/png Size: 3302 bytes Desc: mFmach-line522-530.png Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110504/a787cfa8/attachment-0005.png -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: results-without-relaxation.png Type: image/png Size: 32134 bytes Desc: results-without-relaxation.png Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110504/a787cfa8/attachment-0006.png -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: results-with-relaxation.png Type: image/png Size: 30041 bytes Desc: results-with-relaxation.png Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110504/a787cfa8/attachment-0007.png From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Wed May 4 18:22:01 2011 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Wed, 4 May 2011 18:22:01 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Underrelaxing by using Timestep-controller 4 In-Reply-To: <324E563ADB028A4CAF79CE7CD1941A20163ED2@s-muc-ex02.mbbm-group.com> References: <324E563ADB028A4CAF79CE7CD1941A20163ED2@s-muc-ex02.mbbm-group.com> Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA4130194A84772C2@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> Several users I talked to who have large openings first change the building timestep to one minute and only if that does not work do they consider other options. Since we have not had a notification about controller-4 recently it could be that no one has tried controller 4 for some time. For two rooms which would tend to drive lots of air movement between them I would suggest that you try the one minute timestep without the controller 4. That should result in much smaller oscillations and might just work. Later we might have a chance to do a single-step debug to see how and where the variable itrapas is being set and unset. -Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Pueltz, Gunter [Gunter.Pueltz at MuellerBBM.de] Sent: 04 May 2011 12:39 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Underrelaxing by using Timestep-controller 4 Dear ESP-specialists and developer, for a simulation project with 2 big rooms, which are connected by a large opening and thus show an intensive bidirectional air flow (= intensive air exchange between the 2 zones, see attached screenshot Simulation-model.png), I am using Timestep-controller 4 and a small timestep (10 min). If I do NOT use the underrelaxation-method for the new air-flow-values (the default in source file mfmach.F is, that the do-loop 2222 for underrelaxing the new air-flow-values is commented out; see mFmach.F line 522 - 530 resp. attached screenshot mFmach-line522-530.png), ESP struggles with very intensive oscillations (see attached screenshot results-without-relaxation.png). If this underrelaxation do-loop 2222 is activated (relaxation-factor = 0.25), these oscillations do not appear anymore (see attached screenshot results-with-relaxation.png). The first thing I want to point out is, that these results induce NOT to comment out this underrelaxation do-loop 2222 in future versions of ESP-r ! If the do-loop 2222 is activated manually, a second problem occurs unfortunately : The boolean variable itrpas should be greater zero, if timestep-controller 4 is used (see mfmach.F, line 523). But I found, that itrpas ALWAYS is zero, even while using timestep-controller 4 !?!?! For me it seems, that itrpas is not set to its correct value ... I would like to recommend the ESP-developers to fix this bug ;-) Moreover I am wondering that only one, single user of ESP-r seems to face this problem with oscillations, which are caused by large openings between two thermal domains within a building, inducing an intensive air exchange ... ??? -Gunter -- Dr. Gunter P?ltz M?ller-BBM GmbH Robert-Koch-Stra?e 11 82152 Planegg Telefon +49(89)85602-336 Telefax +49(89)85602-111 E-Mail Gunter.Pueltz at MuellerBBM.de http://www.MuellerBBM.de HRB M?nchen 86143 Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Horst Christian Gass, Bernd Gr?zinger, Dr. Carl-Christian Hantschk, Stefan Schierer, Dr. Edwin Schorer, Norbert Suritsch From Iain.Macdonald at nrc-cnrc.gc.ca Mon May 9 21:29:10 2011 From: Iain.Macdonald at nrc-cnrc.gc.ca (Macdonald, Iain) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 16:29:10 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] Intergrated bld/mfs/plant simulation Message-ID: I have a 'simple' integrated problem with a single thermal zone, a plant description of an AHU and a flow network controlling the AHU fans and % of outdoor air. Strangely the thermal zone shows a ventilation loss of about 2 kW while the AHU fan is on and heating. Can anyone explain this? Some details: 1) The heating coil does heat the supply air to its set point (checked in the plant results) 2) The zone air temperature (from building results) is less than the supply air temperature (from plant results) 3) The building results show both a sensible heating load and a ventilation loss 4) Flow results show the fans coming on and off at the correct time and balanced flow into/out of the thermal zone's node Any suggestions welcome... Thanks, Iain -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110509/739e0632/attachment.html From David.Tang at owenscorning.com Tue May 10 03:01:40 2011 From: David.Tang at owenscorning.com (Tang, David) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 10:01:40 +0800 Subject: [esp-r] =?gb2312?b?tPC4tDogSW50ZXJncmF0ZWQgYmxkL21mcy9wbGFudCBzaW11bGF0?= =?gb2312?b?aW9u?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <75C7116929E8744596D1F206448AEB1D29C18B0485@APHS7200.ap.corp.owenscorning.com> Try to run at sub second time step or the smallest you can. ???: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] ?? Macdonald, Iain ????: 2011?5?10? 4:29 ???: 'esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk' ??: [esp-r] Intergrated bld/mfs/plant simulation I have a ?simple? integrated problem with a single thermal zone, a plant description of an AHU and a flow network controlling the AHU fans and % of outdoor air. Strangely the thermal zone shows a ventilation loss of about 2 kW while the AHU fan is on and heating. Can anyone explain this? Some details: 1) The heating coil does heat the supply air to its set point (checked in the plant results) 2) The zone air temperature (from building results) is less than the supply air temperature (from plant results) 3) The building results show both a sensible heating load and a ventilation loss 4) Flow results show the fans coming on and off at the correct time and balanced flow into/out of the thermal zone?s node Any suggestions welcome? Thanks, Iain The information contained in this communication and its attachment(s) is intended only for the use of the individual to whom it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential, or exempt from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify postmaster at owenscorning.com and delete the communication without retaining any copies. Thank you. Translations available: http://www.owenscorning.com/emailfooter.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110510/64b055c2/attachment.html From nick at esru.strath.ac.uk Tue May 10 09:44:19 2011 From: nick at esru.strath.ac.uk (Nicolas Kelly) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 09:44:19 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Intergrated bld/mfs/plant simulation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1C6300D291585C479F60053DBF140E8A01393C6A35A7@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> Iain, A couple of things to try: 1) Make sure the building and plant are running at the same time step if not re-run and check if the problem persists. 2) Try running the model with no flow network, using the basic plant flow handling. If the ventilation loss disappears then it indicates a substantial bug the plant/building/flow coupling, where a phantom loss of massflow * dT is introduced [dT is the internal-external temperature difference].] Let me know how you get on an I'll have a look at the appropriate section of code. Nick --------------------------------------------------- Nick Kelly BEng (Hons) PgC MSc PhD FHEA Energy Systems Research Unit Mechanical Engineering University of Strathclyde e: nick at esru.strath.ac.uk t: +44(0)141 548 2854 f: +44(0)141 552 5105 --------------------------------------------------- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Macdonald, Iain Sent: 09 May 2011 21:29 To: 'esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk' Subject: [esp-r] Intergrated bld/mfs/plant simulation I have a 'simple' integrated problem with a single thermal zone, a plant description of an AHU and a flow network controlling the AHU fans and % of outdoor air. Strangely the thermal zone shows a ventilation loss of about 2 kW while the AHU fan is on and heating. Can anyone explain this? Some details: 1) The heating coil does heat the supply air to its set point (checked in the plant results) 2) The zone air temperature (from building results) is less than the supply air temperature (from plant results) 3) The building results show both a sensible heating load and a ventilation loss 4) Flow results show the fans coming on and off at the correct time and balanced flow into/out of the thermal zone's node Any suggestions welcome... Thanks, Iain -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110510/6867cabb/attachment-0001.html From sr880710 at dal.ca Thu May 5 16:06:38 2011 From: sr880710 at dal.ca (Sara Nikoofard) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 12:06:38 -0300 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Some bugs in subsys.F ? In-Reply-To: References: <28396844bd4817e53adb29e80dc75cf8@212.203.77.242> <4DB98F5A.7000701@esru.strath.ac.uk> Message-ID: <000001cc0b36$09588f00$1c09ad00$@ca> Hi Alex, Sorry for the late reply, a bad flu knocked me down for 5 days. Thanks for the comprehensive answer but still my problem is there. I try to explain it more. In my model I use AIM2 and in line 1769 the CVVN is supposed to have an amount but it is zero. When I tried to debug what was the problem I found that CVVN is commented out in esrumfs/mfsbld.F therefore it is zero in the subsys.F. If I reintroduce CVVN and reintroduce the day type in this part of the code (which was there before and now it is part of another if so it has to be reintroduced or it will be zero) the results are the same as when I use AfnToBldData. And I don't think you changed that one because according to your commit log r6548 (if you meant that because r6485 is written by Ian not you) you introduced another module which is fine. About the line 1897, previously the if statement was "If (IAIRN.ge.1)then ." it was including AIM2and OPR as well as AFN but now it is only looking at the AFN and it doesn't modify the CVVFM which results in an unbalanced Zone_coupled heat advection. If you look at the dal/CHREM_report_data.F in my branch there is a post processing parameter called fZN_AP_ZnCpldVent (Zone_coupled heat advection) which should be the same with opposite signs for two coupled zones. In case of using new If statement in line 1897 these two numbers are dramatically different which is not the same as what I had with previous version of development_branch. When I reverse it to previous form (i.e. "If (IAIRN.ge.1)then ." ) it works as expected both has the same advection with opposite signs which makes sense. I hope I could explain what I meant. I can send you three different results by changing those parameters to show what I mean if you need that please let me know and I can send you those. Thanks, Sara From: Ferguson, Alex [mailto:Alex.Ferguson at NRCan-RNCan.gc.ca] Sent: April 28, 2011 5:43 PM To: s.nikoofard at Dal.Ca; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: RE: Some bugs in subsys.F ? Greetings from windy Ottawa! I'm the author of recent changes [r6485] to subsys.F that alter use of the PREC5N variables. In this revision, I modified MZVNT to allow more flexibility in specifying infiltration air flow. These changes permit switching from one air flow computation method to another (AIM-2, scheduled flow and air-flow network) mid-simulation depending on the operating conditions in the building. Prior to r6485, ESP-r held air infiltration and ventilation flow conductance in the CVIN and CVVN arrays, in common PREC5N. By default, ESP-r assumes that the air flow rates are specified by hourly schedules in the .opr file. CVIN and CVVN thus contain up to 72 separate flow rates for each zone: one for each hour (1-24) in each of the three day types (weekday/Saturday/Sunday). The routine MZVENC establishes values CVIN and CVVN prior to commencing simulation using the static air change rates specified in the .opr file. During the simulation, ESP-r reads the infiltration and ventilation data for the current hour and day type from these arrays. Rather than create a specific data structure, the air flow network exploited the same variables for imposing network-computed infiltration and ventilation flows on the building thermal model. There two deficiencies with this approach: * It's cumbersome. Because CVIN and CVVN are designed to hold hourly schedules, the air-flow network had to locate the correct array location (that is, the current day type and hour) to save the data in, even though these parameters had no relevance to the air-flow network computation. This not only requires extra code; it also obfuscates the purpose of the CVIN/CVVN arrays. * It erases the original schedules held in CVIN and CVVN. These arrays are populated prior to simulation by routine MZVENC. By repurposing them, the air flow network overwrites the original flow schedules with time-step computed values. This prevents re-imposing the .opr schedules mid-simulation-a key objective in our work. For these reasons, I elected to revise routines MZVENT and MFLW2B to use dedicated variables when imposing infiltration and ventilation on the building thermal domain. I introduced a new common block AfnToBldData common for this purpose. Regarding your observations Sara, I'm not sure I understand your comments. When the opr schedule or AIM-2 models are in effect, ventilation is still governed by the hourly ventilation schedule-and therefore should be established via CVVN as per line 1769. I'm also unsure what you're suggesting regarding line 1897. The if statement has two clauses: bAFN = TRUE for air flow networks, and an else clause otherwise. Am I missing something? Thanks, - Alex Alex Ferguson Housing, Buildings and Communities Group CanmetENERGY Natural Resources Canada P:+1 613 995 3294 F:+1 613 996 9909 Alex.Ferguson at NRCan-RNCan.gc.ca _____ From: Joe Clarke [mailto:joe at esru.strath.ac.uk] Sent: April 28, 2011 12:02 To: core_developers at espr.list.cvsdude.com Subject: Re: AW: Some bugs in subsys.F ? Dear All In relation to Sara's recent post below, I have made changes to ESP-r to enable the coupling of non-air flow networks to building models to allow the use of ESP-r's building-side features in plant modelling. I use the variables in common PREC5N extensively. The changes are at present resident in my branch and not yet integrated in development_branch. Regards, Joe I want to only give a heads up in a mistake occurred in development_branch which should be fixed. It reflected in commit log 6618. Since the fluid flow network solver no longer changes the PREC5N variables and data is stored in the dedicated AfnToBldData common variables, the calculation of CV1, CV2 and other related parameters there for AIM2 in subsys.F should be changed (line 1769 in development_branch). Using the current version cannot calculate CVVF in the mode of AIM2 or OPR, so they have to be changed (which you can see in commit log 6618). Another issue is in CVVFM modification line 1902. The if statement which is in line 1897 is wrong, it doesn't account for other type of air flow network which should consider them. It is also reflected in commit log 6618. Best Regards, Sara Nikoofard Room C254A, Department of Mechanical Engineering, Dalhousie University, Halifax, NS Phone: (902)494-3165 email: s.nikoofard at dal.ca -- Professor J A Clarke email: joe at esru.strath.ac.uk ESRU, Dept. of Mechanical Eng. phone: +44 141 548 3986 University of Strathclyde fax: +44 141 552 5105 Glasgow G1 1XJ, UK http://www.esru.strath.ac.uk/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110505/1cc19664/attachment.html From koji_takemasa at me.com Sun May 22 09:24:06 2011 From: koji_takemasa at me.com (=?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCSXBALxsoQiAbJEI5JzwjGyhC?=) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 08:24:06 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [esp-r] I have compiled esp-r on Snow Leopard. Message-ID: <1d342549-1ea0-6aef-e569-a962f8e568e9@me.com> Hi. I compiled ESP-r and Radiance by using Fink and MacPorts on Macintosh(Snow Leopard). The compilation ended safely.? ------------ For Fink ------------ $ fink install gcc44 $ fink install gtk+2 $ fink install flex $ fink install gawk $ fink install lesstif $ fink install enscript $ fink install ghostscript $ fink install DDD $ fink install transfig $ fink install gtk+? $ fink install xfig $ fink install gtk+2-dev $ fink install imagemagick $ fink install nedit ------------ For MacPorts ------------ $ sudo port install gcc46 +gfortran +universal The working directory is moved to/opt/local/bin with cd and the link is put as follows.? $ ln -s gfortran-mp-4.66 gfortran $ sudo port install gawk +universal $ sudo port install flex +universal $ sudo port install lesstif +universal $ sudo port install xfig +universal $ sudo port install ddd +universal $ sudo port install enscript +universal $ sudo port install gtk2 +universal $ sudo port install imagemagick +universal $ sudo port install tcl +universal $ sudo port install tk +universal sudo ./Install -d /opt/esru --gcc4 --GTK The compilation is begun above.? P.S. A lot of people were sacrificed because of the earthquake and the tsunami that hit East Japan, and a lot of buildings were lost. I wish sincerely to express my gratitude for support of a lot of people in the world to this disaster. Thank you really.? ----- Name : Koji Takemasa E-mail : koji_takemasa at mac.com URL : http://web.me.com/koji_takemasa/MobileMe/LEAD_Project.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110522/bd99eb45/attachment.html From l.f.r.peeters at gmail.com Mon May 23 19:23:38 2011 From: l.f.r.peeters at gmail.com (leen peeters) Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 20:23:38 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] furniture in esp-r Message-ID: Dear all, what is the best way of modelling the effect of furniture in ESP-r? I mean not only the thermal capacity, but the charging and discharging of it and the potential effect of furniture that is located against a wall. Thanks already, Leen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110523/2f3601ba/attachment.html From achim.geissler at intergga.ch Mon May 23 19:36:12 2011 From: achim.geissler at intergga.ch (Achim Geissler) Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 20:36:12 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: furniture in esp-r In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5B156B28-3B24-476D-86FE-17AFAF9383E8@intergga.ch> Dear Leen possibly you want to use "hanging surfaces". I am not sure what you mean by "charging and discharging" other than thermal capacity, but such hanging surfaces have all the same properties as normal zone bounding surfaces. "Furniture against the wall" is a difficult one. As a first thought, you can "cut the appropriate surface into the wall" and then give this surface a different construction which has an additional layer and thermal resistance on the interior. I assume you would like to have reduced surface temperatures in the region of the furniture? However, often problems arise when thermal bridging (internal walls meet external walls, floors meet external walls and such) and furniture "collide". For this, you would need an (at least) 2d calculation, I would say. ESP-r has such a module, however, I do not know if it is still "active". For what its worth. Best Achim On May 23, 2011, at 8:23 PM, leen peeters wrote: > Dear all, > > what is the best way of modelling the effect of furniture in ESP-r? I mean not only the thermal capacity, but the charging and discharging of it and the potential effect of furniture that is located against a wall. > > Thanks already, > > Leen > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r achim.geissler at intergga.ch From l.f.r.peeters at gmail.com Mon May 23 19:43:55 2011 From: l.f.r.peeters at gmail.com (leen peeters) Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 20:43:55 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: furniture in esp-r In-Reply-To: <5B156B28-3B24-476D-86FE-17AFAF9383E8@intergga.ch> References: <5B156B28-3B24-476D-86FE-17AFAF9383E8@intergga.ch> Message-ID: Hi Achim, we planned to do some experiments to see how things should be taken into account, what the influence is on all modes of heat transfer for a range of potential settings. It seemed usefull to first check how popular building simulation codes handle the issue. So, I will take the explanation below and I assume it can be coupled to the adaptive convection algorithm. What I mean by loading and unloading is that the volume, representing the furniture, has to take part in convection and radiation (and potentially some conduction) in order to exchange heat and thus influence its thermal state. Leen On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 8:36 PM, Achim Geissler wrote: > Dear Leen > > possibly you want to use "hanging surfaces". I am not sure what you mean by > "charging and discharging" other than thermal capacity, but such hanging > surfaces have all the same properties as normal zone bounding surfaces. > > "Furniture against the wall" is a difficult one. As a first thought, you > can "cut the appropriate surface into the wall" and then give this surface a > different construction which has an additional layer and thermal resistance > on the interior. I assume you would like to have reduced surface > temperatures in the region of the furniture? > > However, often problems arise when thermal bridging (internal walls meet > external walls, floors meet external walls and such) and furniture > "collide". For this, you would need an (at least) 2d calculation, I would > say. ESP-r has such a module, however, I do not know if it is still > "active". > > For what its worth. > > Best > Achim > > > On May 23, 2011, at 8:23 PM, leen peeters wrote: > > > Dear all, > > > > what is the best way of modelling the effect of furniture in ESP-r? I > mean not only the thermal capacity, but the charging and discharging of it > and the potential effect of furniture that is located against a wall. > > > > Thanks already, > > > > Leen > > _______________________________________________ > > esp-r mailing list > > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > > achim.geissler at intergga.ch > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110523/9ac55857/attachment.html From achim.geissler at intergga.ch Mon May 23 20:13:52 2011 From: achim.geissler at intergga.ch (Achim Geissler) Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 21:13:52 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: furniture in esp-r In-Reply-To: References: <5B156B28-3B24-476D-86FE-17AFAF9383E8@intergga.ch> Message-ID: <43E9036C-0461-4FB9-B12D-6EF217FAF973@intergga.ch> Hi Leen of course, you could model the furniture as small zones in a large one (with the floor of the furniture connecting to the floor of the large zone) ... this would lead to quite a complex "main zone", though. Yes, hanging surfaces can be set up with the normal attributes as any other surface, so the adaptive convection should not be a problem. Best Achim On May 23, 2011, at 8:43 PM, leen peeters wrote: > Hi Achim, > > we planned to do some experiments to see how things should be taken into account, what the influence is on all modes of heat transfer for a range of potential settings. > It seemed usefull to first check how popular building simulation codes handle the issue. > So, I will take the explanation below and I assume it can be coupled to the adaptive convection algorithm. > > What I mean by loading and unloading is that the volume, representing the furniture, has to take part in convection and radiation (and potentially some conduction) in order to exchange heat and thus influence its thermal state. > > Leen > > On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 8:36 PM, Achim Geissler wrote: > Dear Leen > > possibly you want to use "hanging surfaces". I am not sure what you mean by "charging and discharging" other than thermal capacity, but such hanging surfaces have all the same properties as normal zone bounding surfaces. > > "Furniture against the wall" is a difficult one. As a first thought, you can "cut the appropriate surface into the wall" and then give this surface a different construction which has an additional layer and thermal resistance on the interior. I assume you would like to have reduced surface temperatures in the region of the furniture? > > However, often problems arise when thermal bridging (internal walls meet external walls, floors meet external walls and such) and furniture "collide". For this, you would need an (at least) 2d calculation, I would say. ESP-r has such a module, however, I do not know if it is still "active". > > For what its worth. > > Best > Achim > > > On May 23, 2011, at 8:23 PM, leen peeters wrote: > > > Dear all, > > > > what is the best way of modelling the effect of furniture in ESP-r? I mean not only the thermal capacity, but the charging and discharging of it and the potential effect of furniture that is located against a wall. > > > > Thanks already, > > > > Leen > > _______________________________________________ > > esp-r mailing list > > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > > achim.geissler at intergga.ch > > > > > achim.geissler at intergga.ch -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110523/dc259c13/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Tue May 24 07:38:55 2011 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 07:38:55 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: furniture in esp-r In-Reply-To: <43E9036C-0461-4FB9-B12D-6EF217FAF973@intergga.ch> References: <5B156B28-3B24-476D-86FE-17AFAF9383E8@intergga.ch> , <43E9036C-0461-4FB9-B12D-6EF217FAF973@intergga.ch> Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA4130194A8477344@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> One of the exemplar models (a variant of the two cellular offices with passageway) includes explicit furniture - a desk at a window and a filing cabinet. Both the desk and the filing cabinet are represented as back-to-back surfaces. The constructions have been adapted to be half the thickness of the actual furniture. To give a visual clue the filing cabinet has also been represented as a shading block of the appropriate size. The usual rule of thumb is to derive the total surface area of the object and give half to each surface. Some people aggregate a number of similar objects into one pair of surfaces. Position is optional - if it helps to put the object correctly in the room do so, otherwise if position is not critical then rough locations are fine. The pairs of surfaces interact as normal with the other surfaces in the room so you can do viewfactor calcs if you want and include them in heat transfer coefficient regimes and they can be insolated if a shading analysis is done. For an object that rests on the floor you could extrude it into the room as a separate zone. It is also possible to have a zone within a zone (as long as the bounding zone shares the surfaces of the inner zones). Experience in several commercial office building projects indicates that the internal clutter in offices can be substantial and if a design team is interested in the response of a building (e.g. heating startup) then some provision for internal thermal clutter (desks, cabinets, partitions) does seem to improve the fit. Many simulation environments do not allow/support internal thermal clutter, some allow it in an abstract form (mass without location). More importantly, very few practitioners seem to be aware of such facilities and make use of them. Regards, Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Achim Geissler [achim.geissler at intergga.ch] Sent: 23 May 2011 20:13 To: leen peeters Cc: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Re: furniture in esp-r Hi Leen of course, you could model the furniture as small zones in a large one (with the floor of the furniture connecting to the floor of the large zone) ... this would lead to quite a complex "main zone", though. Yes, hanging surfaces can be set up with the normal attributes as any other surface, so the adaptive convection should not be a problem. Best Achim On May 23, 2011, at 8:43 PM, leen peeters wrote: Hi Achim, we planned to do some experiments to see how things should be taken into account, what the influence is on all modes of heat transfer for a range of potential settings. It seemed usefull to first check how popular building simulation codes handle the issue. So, I will take the explanation below and I assume it can be coupled to the adaptive convection algorithm. What I mean by loading and unloading is that the volume, representing the furniture, has to take part in convection and radiation (and potentially some conduction) in order to exchange heat and thus influence its thermal state. Leen On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 8:36 PM, Achim Geissler > wrote: Dear Leen possibly you want to use "hanging surfaces". I am not sure what you mean by "charging and discharging" other than thermal capacity, but such hanging surfaces have all the same properties as normal zone bounding surfaces. "Furniture against the wall" is a difficult one. As a first thought, you can "cut the appropriate surface into the wall" and then give this surface a different construction which has an additional layer and thermal resistance on the interior. I assume you would like to have reduced surface temperatures in the region of the furniture? However, often problems arise when thermal bridging (internal walls meet external walls, floors meet external walls and such) and furniture "collide". For this, you would need an (at least) 2d calculation, I would say. ESP-r has such a module, however, I do not know if it is still "active". For what its worth. Best Achim On May 23, 2011, at 8:23 PM, leen peeters wrote: > Dear all, > > what is the best way of modelling the effect of furniture in ESP-r? I mean not only the thermal capacity, but the charging and discharging of it and the potential effect of furniture that is located against a wall. > > Thanks already, > > Leen > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r achim.geissler at intergga.ch achim.geissler at intergga.ch From gyelt at ergoarte.ch Tue May 24 07:51:00 2011 From: gyelt at ergoarte.ch (gyelt at ergoarte.ch) Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 08:51:00 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] shading mulptiple zones? Message-ID: <20110524065100.GA10847@mail.ergoarte.ch> Hi, I'm new to esr and somewhat stuck with creating shading. I read the cookbook, scanned the mail archive and did the exercises. Still, I have two questions: I'm trying to model a house (4 zones) that has high mountains around it (20-40 degrees elevation). 1. How do I make the shading work for all zones? It seems to be defined seperately for every zone? Is there a way to have each zonefile refer to a central shading file? 2. Do the walls of one zone automatically cause shading for another zone in the same model or should I define shading of adjacent zones by hand? Thanks in advance for you help. Sincerely Gyelt Tuinstra From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Tue May 24 09:01:13 2011 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 09:01:13 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: shading mulptiple zones? In-Reply-To: <20110524065100.GA10847@mail.ergoarte.ch> References: <20110524065100.GA10847@mail.ergoarte.ch> Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA4130194A8477346@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> A question about one shading object for several zones.... You are correct that each zone has its own definition of shading objects. You need to duplicate the shading objects in each zone for objects that are common for the whole model. Sorry but there is not yet a facility to copy shading obstructions between zones (some users would open up a text editor and do a copy and paste of the objects). Note that newer versions of ESP-r are able to work with shading objects that are 6 sided but not necessarily box shaped - might be a way of representing a ground form with fewer objects. Walls in one zone do not shade other zones. If you judge it important represent the general shape of the other room with an obstruction. -Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of gyelt at ergoarte.ch [gyelt at ergoarte.ch] Sent: 24 May 2011 07:51 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] shading mulptiple zones? Hi, I'm new to esr and somewhat stuck with creating shading. I read the cookbook, scanned the mail archive and did the exercises. Still, I have two questions: I'm trying to model a house (4 zones) that has high mountains around it (20-40 degrees elevation). 1. How do I make the shading work for all zones? It seems to be defined seperately for every zone? Is there a way to have each zonefile refer to a central shading file? 2. Do the walls of one zone automatically cause shading for another zone in the same model or should I define shading of adjacent zones by hand? Thanks in advance for you help. Sincerely Gyelt Tuinstra _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From Camilo.Diaz at WSPGroup.com Tue May 24 09:10:29 2011 From: Camilo.Diaz at WSPGroup.com (Diaz, Camilo) Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 09:10:29 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: furniture in esp-r In-Reply-To: <43E9036C-0461-4FB9-B12D-6EF217FAF973@intergga.ch> References: <5B156B28-3B24-476D-86FE-17AFAF9383E8@intergga.ch> <43E9036C-0461-4FB9-B12D-6EF217FAF973@intergga.ch> Message-ID: <8D1DBECA68C12349A239B8977228707A0EB399F0@EXC04COL1UK.uk.wspgroup.com> The problem with "hanging surfaces" is that you effectively replace one part of the exposed wall with another material. In reality a sofa or a book shelf against the wall blocks the radiation component but the convective component it still active the heat will spread throughout the whole wall according to its thermal diffusivity. Depending on the focus of the study the hanging surface approach can work but you may lose some of the mass effects... Camilo 0207 314 4447 07713 985 845 From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Achim Geissler Sent: 23 May 2011 20:14 To: leen peeters Cc: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Re: furniture in esp-r Hi Leen of course, you could model the furniture as small zones in a large one (with the floor of the furniture connecting to the floor of the large zone) ... this would lead to quite a complex "main zone", though. Yes, hanging surfaces can be set up with the normal attributes as any other surface, so the adaptive convection should not be a problem. Best Achim On May 23, 2011, at 8:43 PM, leen peeters wrote: Hi Achim, we planned to do some experiments to see how things should be taken into account, what the influence is on all modes of heat transfer for a range of potential settings. It seemed usefull to first check how popular building simulation codes handle the issue. So, I will take the explanation below and I assume it can be coupled to the adaptive convection algorithm. What I mean by loading and unloading is that the volume, representing the furniture, has to take part in convection and radiation (and potentially some conduction) in order to exchange heat and thus influence its thermal state. Leen On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 8:36 PM, Achim Geissler wrote: Dear Leen possibly you want to use "hanging surfaces". I am not sure what you mean by "charging and discharging" other than thermal capacity, but such hanging surfaces have all the same properties as normal zone bounding surfaces. "Furniture against the wall" is a difficult one. As a first thought, you can "cut the appropriate surface into the wall" and then give this surface a different construction which has an additional layer and thermal resistance on the interior. I assume you would like to have reduced surface temperatures in the region of the furniture? However, often problems arise when thermal bridging (internal walls meet external walls, floors meet external walls and such) and furniture "collide". For this, you would need an (at least) 2d calculation, I would say. ESP-r has such a module, however, I do not know if it is still "active". For what its worth. Best Achim On May 23, 2011, at 8:23 PM, leen peeters wrote: > Dear all, > > what is the best way of modelling the effect of furniture in ESP-r? I mean not only the thermal capacity, but the charging and discharging of it and the potential effect of furniture that is located against a wall. > > Thanks already, > > Leen > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r achim.geissler at intergga.ch achim.geissler at intergga.ch -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110524/cd59ee80/attachment.html From achim.geissler at intergga.ch Tue May 24 11:10:48 2011 From: achim.geissler at intergga.ch (Achim.geissler) Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 12:10:48 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: furniture in esp-r Message-ID: Hi Camilo interesting point. I do not quite understand what you mean by "effectively replace on part of the exposed wall with another", though. A hanging surface will influence the long wave radiation ("block"). Good practice would entail splitting the surrounding surfaces into smaller surfaces to get good results in detailed view-factor based radiation calculation (which, of course, must be done with such surfaces). The convection will surely be a bit high, I agree, as this will be based on the single zone node temperature. Good to have a discussion here! Best Achim --------- Original-Nachricht -------- Von: "Diaz, Camilo" An: "Achim Geissler" , "leen peeters" Cc: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Betreff: [esp-r] Re: furniture in esp-r Datum: 24/05/11 10:12 The problem with “hanging surfaces” is that you effectively replace one part of the exposed wall with another material. In reality a sofa or a book shelf against the wall blocks the radiation component but the convective component it still active the heat will spread throughout the whole wall according to its thermal diffusivity. Depending on the focus of the study the hanging surface approach can work but you may lose some of the mass effects…?Camilo 0207 314 4447 07713 985 845?From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Achim Geissler Sent: 23 May 2011 20:14 To: leen peeters Cc: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Re: furniture in esp-r?Hi Leen?of course, you could model the furniture as small zones in a large one (with the floor of the furniture connecting to the floor of the large zone) ... this would lead to quite a complex "main zone", though.?Yes, hanging surfaces can be set up with the normal attributes as any other surface, so the adaptive convection should not be a problem.?BestAchim???On May 23, 2011, at 8:43 PM, leen peeters wrote: Hi Achim,?we planned to do some experiments to see how things should be taken into account, what the influence is on all modes of heat transfer for a range of potential settings. It seemed usefull to first check how popular building simulation codes handle the issue.So, I will take the explanation below and I assume it can be coupled to the adaptive convection algorithm. ?What I mean by loading and unloading is that the volume, representing the furniture, has to take part in convection and radiation (and potentially some conduction) in order to exchange heat and thus influence its thermal state. ?LeenOn Mon, May 23, 2011 at 8:36 PM, Achim Geissler wrote:Dear Leen possibly you want to use "hanging surfaces". I am not sure what you mean by "charging and discharging" other than thermal capacity, but such hanging surfaces have all the same properties as normal zone bounding surfaces. "Furniture against the wall" is a difficult one. As a first thought, you can "cut the appropriate surface into the wall" and then give this surface a different construction which has an additional layer and thermal resistance on the interior. I assume you would like to have reduced surface temperatures in the region of the furniture? However, often problems arise when thermal bridging (internal walls meet external walls, floors meet external walls and such) and furniture "collide". For this, you would need an (at least) 2d calculation, I would say. ESP-r has such a module, however, I do not know if it is still "active". For what its worth. Best Achim On May 23, 2011, at 8:23 PM, leen peeters wrote: > Dear all, > > what is the best way of modelling the effect of furniture in ESP-r? I mean not only the thermal capacity, but the charging and discharging of it and the potential effect of furniture that is located against a wall. > > Thanks already, > > Leen> _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk (mailto:esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk) > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r (http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r" target="_blank) achim.geissler at intergga.ch (mailto:achim.geissler at intergga.ch) ??achim.geissler at intergga.ch (mailto:achim.geissler at intergga.ch)???? _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk (mailto:esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk" class="autolink) http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r (http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r" target="_blank" class="autolink) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110524/c3959f0c/attachment-0001.html From Camilo.Diaz at WSPGroup.com Tue May 24 12:55:30 2011 From: Camilo.Diaz at WSPGroup.com (Diaz, Camilo) Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 12:55:30 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: furniture in esp-r In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8D1DBECA68C12349A239B8977228707A0EBA55B4@EXC04COL1UK.uk.wspgroup.com> Hi Achim - if your hanging surface is an additional element to the wall behind i.e. with an air gap between surfaces then this would resolve my point below, can you do that in esp? if so I think you approach is spot on... Thanks Camilo 0207 314 4447 07713 985 845 From: Achim.geissler [mailto:achim.geissler at intergga.ch] Sent: 24 May 2011 11:11 To: Diaz, Camilo; AchimGeissler; leenpeeters Cc: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: AW: [esp-r] Re: furniture in esp-r Hi Camilo interesting point. I do not quite understand what you mean by "effectively replace on part of the exposed wall with another", though. A hanging surface will influence the long wave radiation ("block"). Good practice would entail splitting the surrounding surfaces into smaller surfaces to get good results in detailed view-factor based radiation calculation (which, of course, must be done with such surfaces). The convection will surely be a bit high, I agree, as this will be based on the single zone node temperature. Good to have a discussion here! Best Achim --------- Original-Nachricht -------- Von: "Diaz, Camilo" An: "Achim Geissler" , "leen peeters" Cc: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Betreff: [esp-r] Re: furniture in esp-r ! Datum: 24/05/11 10:12 The problem with "hanging surfaces" is that you effectively replace one part of the exposed wall with another material. In reality a sofa or a book shelf against the wall blocks the radiation component but the convective component it still active the heat will spread throughout the whole wall according to its thermal diffusivity. Depending on the focus of the study the hanging surface approach can work but you! may lose some of the mass effects... Camilo 0207 314 4447 07713 985 845 From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Achim Geissler Sent: 23 May 2011 20:14 To: leen peeters Cc: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Re: furniture in esp-r Hi Leen of course, you could model the furniture as small zones in a ! large one (with the floor of the furniture connecting to the floor of the large zone) ... this would lead to quite a complex "main zone", though. Yes, hanging surfaces can be set up with the normal attributes as any other surface, so the adaptive convection should not be a problem. Best Achim On May 23, 2011, at 8:43 PM, leen peeters wrote: Hi Achim, we planned to do some experiments to see how things should be taken into account, what the influence is on all modes of heat transfer ! for a range of potential settings. It seemed usefull to first check how popular building simulation codes handle the issue. So, I will take the explanation below and I assume it can be coupled to the adaptive convection algorithm. What I mean by loading and unloading is that the volume, representing the furniture, has to take part in convection and radiation (and potentially some conduction) in order to exchange heat and thus influence its thermal state. Leen On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 8:36 PM, Achim Geissler wrote: Dear Leen possibly you want to use "hanging surfaces". I a! m not sure what you mean by "charging and discharging" other than thermal capacity, but such hanging surfaces have all the same properties as normal zone bounding surfaces. "Furniture against the wall" is a difficult one. As a first thought, you can "cut the appropriate surface into the wall" and then give this surface a different construction which has an additional layer and thermal resistance on the interior. I assume you would like to have reduced surface temperatures in the region of the furniture? However, often problems arise when thermal bridging (internal walls meet external walls, floors meet external walls and such) and furniture "collide". For this, you would need an (at least) 2d calculation, I would say. ESP-r has such a module, however, I do not know if it is still "active". For what its worth. Best Achim On May 23, 2011, a! t 8:23 PM, leen peeters wrote: > Dear all, > > what is the best way of modelling the effect of furniture in ESP-r? I mean not only the thermal capacity, but the charging and discharging of it and the potential effect of furniture that is located against a wall. > > Thanks already, > > Leen > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r achim.geissler at intergga.ch achim.geissler at intergga.ch ________________________________ _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110524/60253463/attachment.html From A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk Thu Jun 2 11:36:59 2011 From: A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk (A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2011 10:36:59 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] xterm does not open Message-ID: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C1212E9EB5DE@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> Dear All, after having worked with ESP-r under a cygwin environment for about 6 month and having experienced many break through, cygwin all of a sudden stopped working on Tuesday. The X term does not open anymore and I get this message: warning: this program is an suid-root program or is being run by the root user. The full text of the error or warning message cannot be safely formatted in this environment. You may get a more descriptive message by running the program as a non - root user or by removing the suid bit on the executable. Xterm xt error: can't open display does anyone have any idea on what that means and on what it is best to do? I was thinking of reinstalling cygwin but that may create some issues. ANY idea is welcome, Kind regards. Arianna Sdei Research fellow University of Brighton ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110602/ae6d0016/attachment.html From achim.geissler at intergga.ch Thu Jun 2 11:46:30 2011 From: achim.geissler at intergga.ch (Achim.geissler) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2011 12:46:30 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: xterm does not open Message-ID: Dear Arianna the "can't open display" may mean there is still a lock file from a crashed session in the tmp folder. X will set a lock on the display when run - a crash may leave this lock file and subsequent attempts to start X will fail. Best Achim --------- Original-Nachricht -------- Von: A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk An: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Betreff: [esp-r] xterm does not open Datum: 02/06/11 12:39 > Dear All, >   > after having worked with ESP-r under a cygwin environment for about 6 month and having experienced many break through, cygwin all of a sudden stopped working on Tuesday. The X term does not open anymore and I get this message: > >   > warning: this program is an suid-root program or is being run by the root user. The full text of the error or warning message cannot be safely formatted in this environment. You may get a more descriptive message by running the program > as a non – root user or by removing the suid bit on the executable. Xterm xt error: can’t open display >   > does anyone have any idea on what that means and on what it is best to do? I was thinking of reinstalling cygwin but that may create some issues. > >   > ANY idea is welcome, > Kind regards. >   > Arianna Sdei > Research fellow > University of Brighton >   > > > ___________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security > System on behalf of the University of Brighton. > For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ > ___________________________________________________________ > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From aizaz.a.samuel at strath.ac.uk Thu Jun 2 12:57:12 2011 From: aizaz.a.samuel at strath.ac.uk (Aizaz Samuel) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2011 12:57:12 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: xterm does not open In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4DE77A98.40108@strath.ac.uk> Arianna, The cygwin environment I work on does not shut down xwin after I log out of cygwin I get the same problem when I then log back on. The work around is 1. From cygwin command line type ps 2. Note the process id for xwin 3. Type kill -9 process id no. 4. Type startxwin.exe This should restore the xterm window Regards, Aizaz -- Dr Aizaz A Samuel Department of Mechanical Engineering University of Strathclyde James Weir Building Glasgow, UK t: +44 141 548 5765 f: +44 141 552 5105 e: samuel at esru.strath.ac.uk On 02/06/11 11:46, Achim.geissler wrote: > Dear Arianna > > the "can't open display" may mean there is still a lock file from a crashed > session in the tmp folder. X will set a lock on the display when run - a > crash may leave this lock file and subsequent attempts to start X will fail. > > Best > Achim > > > > --------- Original-Nachricht -------- > Von: A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk > An: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Betreff: [esp-r] xterm does not open > Datum: 02/06/11 12:39 > >> Dear All, >>   >> after having worked with ESP-r under a cygwin environment for about 6 > month and having experienced many break through, cygwin all of a sudden > stopped working on Tuesday. The X term does not open anymore and I get this > message: >>   >> warning: this program is an suid-root program or is being run by the root > user. The full text of the error or warning message cannot be safely > formatted in this environment. You may get a more descriptive message by > running the program >> as a non– root user or by removing the suid bit on the executable. > Xterm xt error: can’t open display >>   >> does anyone have any idea on what that means and on what it is best to do? > I was thinking of reinstalling cygwin but that may create some issues. >>   >> ANY idea is welcome, >> Kind regards. >>   >> Arianna Sdei >> Research fellow >> University of Brighton >>   >> >> >> ___________________________________________________________ >> This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security >> System on behalf of the University of Brighton. >> For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ >> ___________________________________________________________ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> esp-r mailing list >> esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk >> http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk Thu Jun 2 19:14:04 2011 From: A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk (A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2011 18:14:04 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: xterm does not open In-Reply-To: <4DE77A98.40108@strath.ac.uk> References: <4DE77A98.40108@strath.ac.uk> Message-ID: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C1212E9EB6AC@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> Thank you All, I re-installed cygwin and I can now open esp-r. I hope it lasts, kind regards. Arianna -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Aizaz Samuel Sent: 02 June 2011 12:57 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Re: xterm does not open Arianna, The cygwin environment I work on does not shut down xwin after I log out of cygwin I get the same problem when I then log back on. The work around is 1. From cygwin command line type ps 2. Note the process id for xwin 3. Type kill -9 process id no. 4. Type startxwin.exe This should restore the xterm window Regards, Aizaz -- Dr Aizaz A Samuel Department of Mechanical Engineering University of Strathclyde James Weir Building Glasgow, UK t: +44 141 548 5765 f: +44 141 552 5105 e: samuel at esru.strath.ac.uk On 02/06/11 11:46, Achim.geissler wrote: > Dear Arianna > > the "can't open display" may mean there is still a lock file from a crashed > session in the tmp folder. X will set a lock on the display when run - a > crash may leave this lock file and subsequent attempts to start X will fail. > > Best > Achim > > > > --------- Original-Nachricht -------- > Von: A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk > An: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Betreff: [esp-r] xterm does not open > Datum: 02/06/11 12:39 > >> Dear All, >>   >> after having worked with ESP-r under a cygwin environment for about 6 > month and having experienced many break through, cygwin all of a sudden > stopped working on Tuesday. The X term does not open anymore and I get this > message: >>   >> warning: this program is an suid-root program or is being run by the root > user. The full text of the error or warning message cannot be safely > formatted in this environment. You may get a more descriptive message by > running the program >> as a non– root user or by removing the suid bit on the executable. > Xterm xt error: can’t open display >>   >> does anyone have any idea on what that means and on what it is best to do? > I was thinking of reinstalling cygwin but that may create some issues. >>   >> ANY idea is welcome, >> Kind regards. >>   >> Arianna Sdei >> Research fellow >> University of Brighton >>   >> >> >> ___________________________________________________________ >> This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security >> System on behalf of the University of Brighton. >> For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ >> ___________________________________________________________ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> esp-r mailing list >> esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk >> http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ From A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk Fri Jun 3 14:47:29 2011 From: A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk (A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2011 13:47:29 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: esp-r does not simulate In-Reply-To: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C1212E9EB6AC@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> References: <4DE77A98.40108@strath.ac.uk> <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C1212E9EB6AC@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> Message-ID: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C1212E9EB80B@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> Dear All, esp-r now opens but it does not simulate. Any idea? I look forward to hearing from you. Regards, Arianna -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk Sent: 02 June 2011 19:14 To: Aizaz Samuel; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Re: xterm does not open Thank you All, I re-installed cygwin and I can now open esp-r. I hope it lasts, kind regards. Arianna -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Aizaz Samuel Sent: 02 June 2011 12:57 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Re: xterm does not open Arianna, The cygwin environment I work on does not shut down xwin after I log out of cygwin I get the same problem when I then log back on. The work around is 1. From cygwin command line type ps 2. Note the process id for xwin 3. Type kill -9 process id no. 4. Type startxwin.exe This should restore the xterm window Regards, Aizaz -- Dr Aizaz A Samuel Department of Mechanical Engineering University of Strathclyde James Weir Building Glasgow, UK t: +44 141 548 5765 f: +44 141 552 5105 e: samuel at esru.strath.ac.uk On 02/06/11 11:46, Achim.geissler wrote: > Dear Arianna > > the "can't open display" may mean there is still a lock file from a crashed > session in the tmp folder. X will set a lock on the display when run - a > crash may leave this lock file and subsequent attempts to start X will fail. > > Best > Achim > > > > --------- Original-Nachricht -------- > Von: A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk > An: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Betreff: [esp-r] xterm does not open > Datum: 02/06/11 12:39 > >> Dear All, >>   >> after having worked with ESP-r under a cygwin environment for about 6 > month and having experienced many break through, cygwin all of a sudden > stopped working on Tuesday. The X term does not open anymore and I get this > message: >>   >> warning: this program is an suid-root program or is being run by the root > user. The full text of the error or warning message cannot be safely > formatted in this environment. You may get a more descriptive message by > running the program >> as a non– root user or by removing the suid bit on the executable. > Xterm xt error: can’t open display >>   >> does anyone have any idea on what that means and on what it is best to do? > I was thinking of reinstalling cygwin but that may create some issues. >>   >> ANY idea is welcome, >> Kind regards. >>   >> Arianna Sdei >> Research fellow >> University of Brighton >>   >> >> >> ___________________________________________________________ >> This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security >> System on behalf of the University of Brighton. >> For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ >> ___________________________________________________________ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> esp-r mailing list >> esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk >> http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ From A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk Fri Jun 3 15:30:16 2011 From: A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk (A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2011 14:30:16 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: esp-r does not simulate In-Reply-To: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C1212E9EB80B@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> References: <4DE77A98.40108@strath.ac.uk> <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C1212E9EB6AC@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C1212E9EB80B@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> Message-ID: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C1212E9EB837@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> Dear All, I am trying to re-install ESP-r into my machine (Beta version) but the file I download from the website is not executable: esp-r_x11_11.10_beta_cygwin.tar.gz how can I launch the installation? Thank you, regards, Arianna Sdei ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Fri Jun 3 18:52:13 2011 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2011 18:52:13 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Cygwin and ESP-r disaster recovery.... Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA4130194A8477368@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> People who are using Cygwin to run ESP-r might want to consider the following disaster recovery actions. If your Cygwin and/or ESP-r is currently working today, there will be a point in time in the future when a butterfly in Panama will flap its wings in just the way needed to cause your software to not work in some way that causes you great frustration.... When that happens you will fondly remember that day in early June 2011 when you spent a few minutes....for low cost insurance. If you want to roll back time you need a backup technique. Cygwin is essentially a folder structure within a Windows machine and a couple of configuration files lurking in the Documents and Settings folder. And there might also be some files that were downloaded by the Setup.exe that you used to setup Cygwin on your computer. Search on your computer for files that include the name cygwin. Take note of these. Backup what was initially downloaded (the setup.exe and the hundreds of compressed files that were used in setting up Cygwin) and the settings files. Burn them to a DVD along with a readme file that gives a synopsis of these files and their original locations. You could use this collection of files if you need to rebuild Cygwin. Why would you want to do that? Cygwin is constantly evolving and new libraries and applications are being added which have not yet been tested. Getting an all-new Cygwin might or might not solve problems. Next - the folder cygwin may include thousands of files but it can still be 'zipped' up like any other collection of files. There are several tools that will compress nests of folders if you right click on the top folder. Use them! And then burn the resulting 'zip' or '7z' file to a DVD. Note the date and version of ES-r. If stuff evolves within Cygwin or ESP-r then you might repeat the process again - giving the archive files a slightly different name etc. Recovery is essentially a matter of moving the mangled Cygwin folder out of the way and unzipping the archive so that the clock has been returned to that earlier happier time. If the work you do is important consider techniques that will get you up and running again quickly. On ebay you can get an old clunker of a computer for pocket change. Replicate your working system and use if to test your recovery techniques. Happy archiving...... -Jon Hand From taro.3tree at gmail.com Mon Jun 6 10:33:55 2011 From: taro.3tree at gmail.com (Mori Taro) Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2011 18:33:55 +0900 Subject: [esp-r] absorption rate Message-ID: <4DEC9F03.3020509@gmail.com> Hi I'm new to esp-r I study the effect of absorption rate on the thermal environment now. I changed the absorption rate of each walls by "surface attributes" in "geometry & attribution" The results show that each surface temperatures in high absorption rate are higher than that in low absorption rate, but room temp in high abs rate is lower than that in low abs rate. I think I need to work more about the model, but I can't search this kind of issue in cookbook. 1. How do I set absorption rate of each walls? 2. Are there additional work after I set absorption rate? regards Taro, Hokkaido Univ. Japan From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Mon Jun 6 19:43:53 2011 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2011 19:43:53 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: absorption rate In-Reply-To: <4DEC9F03.3020509@gmail.com> References: <4DEC9F03.3020509@gmail.com> Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA4130194A8477370@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> In the following email it is not clear whether 'absorption rate' is the long wave emissivity or solar absorption. These are both properties of the materials used in the constructions. The best place to alter these properties is to go to the database management facility and to create (or copy and edit) the constructions used in the zone and to reference materials which have the properties you want to study. After you have created one or more variant constructions you can then use the surface attributes menu to associate a new construction with the zone surfaces of interest. Prj will then ask if the zone construction files should be updated (say yes). Confirm that the changes have been made by generating a model contents report - in the last section of the report you should see the surface properties. To make it easier to compare you could have a model with two zones which are identical except for the constructions used. Then you can study the energy balance of both zones to look for the differences. If there is a longwave radiant gain in the room (e.g. a casual gain with a strong radiant fraction) which turns on and off you should notice the surfaces with high longwave emissivity getting warmer quicker than surfaces which have a low longwave emissivity. -Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Mori Taro [taro.3tree at gmail.com] Sent: 06 June 2011 10:33 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] absorption rate Hi I'm new to esp-r I study the effect of absorption rate on the thermal environment now. I changed the absorption rate of each walls by "surface attributes" in "geometry & attribution" The results show that each surface temperatures in high absorption rate are higher than that in low absorption rate, but room temp in high abs rate is lower than that in low abs rate. I think I need to work more about the model, but I can't search this kind of issue in cookbook. 1. How do I set absorption rate of each walls? 2. Are there additional work after I set absorption rate? regards Taro, Hokkaido Univ. Japan _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From nick at esru.strath.ac.uk Wed Jun 8 16:57:08 2011 From: nick at esru.strath.ac.uk (Nicolas Kelly) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 16:57:08 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] 2HX stratified tank model Message-ID: <1C6300D291585C479F60053DBF140E8A01393C6A363F@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> Does anyone have an example of a plant network featuring the 2HX stratified tank model? I'm having problems with the model generating NaNs at the moment and it would be useful to have a working system for comparison. Regards, Nick Kelly [cid:image003.jpg at 01CC25FD.19FAC440] Liathach, Beinn Eighe and Upper Loch Torridon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110608/36d892cb/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image003.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 7359 bytes Desc: image003.jpg Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110608/36d892cb/attachment.jpg From A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk Wed Jun 8 17:50:12 2011 From: A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk (A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 16:50:12 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] esp-r does not simulate Message-ID: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C1214F90C824@BELLATRIX.university.brighton.ac.uk> Dear All, I have reinstalled cygwin and ESP-r in my machine and I still cannot simulate. The simulation-integrated simulation window doesn't open. I can carry on all other tasks, change materials and results and analysis works just fine. Any idea about what I can do? Thank you in advance, kind regards. Arianna ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110608/d0987eca/attachment.html From Kamel.Haddad at NRCan-RNCan.gc.ca Wed Jun 8 19:06:11 2011 From: Kamel.Haddad at NRCan-RNCan.gc.ca (Haddad, Kamel) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 14:06:11 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] Re: 2HX stratified tank model In-Reply-To: <1C6300D291585C479F60053DBF140E8A01393C6A363F@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> References: <1C6300D291585C479F60053DBF140E8A01393C6A363F@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> Message-ID: Nick, Those would be here: tester\test_suite\stratified_tank Kamel ________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Nicolas Kelly Sent: June 8, 2011 11:57 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] 2HX stratified tank model Does anyone have an example of a plant network featuring the 2HX stratified tank model? I'm having problems with the model generating NaNs at the moment and it would be useful to have a working system for comparison. Regards, Nick Kelly Liathach, Beinn Eighe and Upper Loch Torridon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110608/ebbc8e32/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 7359 bytes Desc: image003.jpg Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110608/ebbc8e32/attachment.jpe From nick at esru.strath.ac.uk Thu Jun 9 09:19:48 2011 From: nick at esru.strath.ac.uk (Nicolas Kelly) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 09:19:48 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: 2HX stratified tank model In-Reply-To: References: <1C6300D291585C479F60053DBF140E8A01393C6A363F@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> Message-ID: <1C6300D291585C479F60053DBF140E8A01393C6A3640@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> Hi Kamel, Thanks, I checked this model out - however the tank is coupled to fixed flow, fixed temperature connections. My model has the tank coupled to variable flow, variable temperature sources. What I need to determine is whether my NaN's are due to a problem with my plant network (i.e. the data I've used or incorrect connections) or by a bug in the tank model. Regards, Nick --------------------------------------------------- Nick Kelly BEng (Hons) PgC MSc PhD FHEA Energy Systems Research Unit Mechanical Engineering University of Strathclyde e: nick at esru.strath.ac.uk t: +44(0)141 548 2854 f: +44(0)141 552 5105 --------------------------------------------------- From: Haddad, Kamel [mailto:Kamel.Haddad at NRCan-RNCan.gc.ca] Sent: 08 June 2011 19:06 To: Nicolas Kelly; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: RE: [esp-r] 2HX stratified tank model Nick, Those would be here: tester\test_suite\stratified_tank Kamel ________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Nicolas Kelly Sent: June 8, 2011 11:57 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] 2HX stratified tank model Does anyone have an example of a plant network featuring the 2HX stratified tank model? I'm having problems with the model generating NaNs at the moment and it would be useful to have a working system for comparison. Regards, Nick Kelly [cid:image001.jpg at 01CC2685.BB940E50] Liathach, Beinn Eighe and Upper Loch Torridon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110609/eba87e3e/attachment-0001.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 7359 bytes Desc: image001.jpg Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110609/eba87e3e/attachment-0001.jpg From manzan at units.it Thu Jun 9 15:44:29 2011 From: manzan at units.it (Marco Manzan) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 16:44:29 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: 2HX stratified tank model In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <201106091644.30488.manzan@units.it> Alle gioved? 9 giugno 2011, esp-r-request at lists.strath.ac.uk ha scritto: > Send esp-r mailing list submissions to > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > esp-r-request at lists.strath.ac.uk > > You can reach the person managing the list at > esp-r-owner at lists.strath.ac.uk > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of esp-r digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. esp-r does not simulate (A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk) > 2. Re: 2HX stratified tank model (Haddad, Kamel) > 3. Re: 2HX stratified tank model (Nicolas Kelly) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 16:50:12 +0000 > From: A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk > Subject: [esp-r] esp-r does not simulate > To: "esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk" > Message-ID: > <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C1214F90C824 at BELLATRIX.university.brighton.ac > .uk> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Dear All, > > I have reinstalled cygwin and ESP-r in my machine and I still cannot > simulate. The simulation-integrated simulation window doesn't open. I can > carry on all other tasks, change materials and results and analysis works > just fine. Any idea about what I can do? Thank you in advance, kind > regards. > > Arianna > > ___________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security > System on behalf of the University of Brighton. > For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ > ___________________________________________________________ > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110608/d0987eca/att > achment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 14:06:11 -0400 > From: "Haddad, Kamel" > Subject: [esp-r] Re: 2HX stratified tank model > To: "Nicolas Kelly" , > > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Nick, Those would be here: > > tester\test_suite\stratified_tank > > Kamel > ________________________________ > > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk > [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Nicolas Kelly > Sent: June 8, 2011 11:57 > To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Subject: [esp-r] 2HX stratified tank model > > > > Does anyone have an example of a plant network featuring the 2HX > stratified tank model? I'm having problems with the model generating > NaNs at the moment and it would be useful to have a working system for > comparison. > > > > Regards, > > > > Nick Kelly > > > > > > Liathach, Beinn Eighe and Upper Loch Torridon > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110608/ebbc8e32/att > achment-0001.html -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: not available > Type: image/jpeg > Size: 7359 bytes > Desc: image003.jpg > Url : > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110608/ebbc8e32/att > achment-0001.jpe > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 09:19:48 +0100 > From: Nicolas Kelly > Subject: [esp-r] Re: 2HX stratified tank model > To: "'Haddad, Kamel'" , > "esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk" > Message-ID: > <1C6300D291585C479F60053DBF140E8A01393C6A3640 at E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Hi Kamel, > > Thanks, I checked this model out - however the tank is coupled to fixed > flow, fixed temperature connections. My model has the tank coupled to > variable flow, variable temperature sources. What I need to determine is > whether my NaN's are due to a problem with my plant network (i.e. the data > I've used or incorrect connections) or by a bug in the tank model. > > Regards, > > Nick > > --------------------------------------------------- > Nick Kelly BEng (Hons) PgC MSc PhD FHEA > Energy Systems Research Unit > Mechanical Engineering > University of Strathclyde > e: nick at esru.strath.ac.uk > t: +44(0)141 548 2854 > f: +44(0)141 552 5105 > --------------------------------------------------- > > From: Haddad, Kamel [mailto:Kamel.Haddad at NRCan-RNCan.gc.ca] > Sent: 08 June 2011 19:06 > To: Nicolas Kelly; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Subject: RE: [esp-r] 2HX stratified tank model > > Nick, Those would be here: > > tester\test_suite\stratified_tank > > Kamel > ________________________________ > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk > [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Nicolas Kelly Sent: > June 8, 2011 11:57 > To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Subject: [esp-r] 2HX stratified tank model > Does anyone have an example of a plant network featuring the 2HX stratified > tank model? I'm having problems with the model generating NaNs at the > moment and it would be useful to have a working system for comparison. > > Regards, > > Nick Kelly > > [cid:image001.jpg at 01CC2685.BB940E50] > Liathach, Beinn Eighe and Upper Loch Torridon > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110609/eba87e3e/att > achment.html -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: image001.jpg > Type: image/jpeg > Size: 7359 bytes > Desc: image001.jpg > Url : > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110609/eba87e3e/att > achment.jpg > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > > End of esp-r Digest, Vol 59, Issue 7 > ************************************ Hi Nick I've been working a lot with the stratified 2HX tank and I don't think the problem is in this model. I had a lot of problems with instabilities and variable flow when coupling it with a solar collector. I experienced no convergence and NaN problems. I've been simulating a system with boiler and solar collector, both systems connected with pumps and ON-OFF controllers driven by tank temperature. I could obtain a better stability by using a proportional controller for the pump serving the solar collector. Anyway I will send you a model for comparison. Marco -- _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ |Marco Manzan Email: manzan at units.it | |Tel: (+39) 040 5583506 Fax : (+39) 040 572033 | |Dipartimento di Ingegneria Meccanica e Navale | |Universita' degli Studi di Trieste | |via A. Valerio 10, 34127 TRIESTE | |_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _| From Gunter.Pueltz at MuellerBBM.de Fri Jun 10 06:11:44 2011 From: Gunter.Pueltz at MuellerBBM.de (Pueltz, Gunter) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 07:11:44 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] cooling effect of a water basin by evaporation ... ? Message-ID: <324E563ADB028A4CAF79CE7CD1941A20163F54@s-muc-ex02.mbbm-group.com> Is a water basin model in ESP-r available, which enables to simulate the cooling effect due to evaporation of water within a glazed atrium ? - Gunter -- Dr. Gunter P?ltz M?ller-BBM GmbH Robert-Koch-Stra?e 11 82152 Planegg Telefon +49(89)85602-336 Telefax +49(89)85602-111 E-Mail Gunter.Pueltz at MuellerBBM.de http://www.MuellerBBM.de HRB M?nchen 86143 Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Horst Christian Gass, Bernd Gr?zinger, Dr. Carl-Christian Hantschk, Stefan Schierer, Dr. Edwin Schorer, Norbert Suritsch From nick at esru.strath.ac.uk Fri Jun 10 09:25:41 2011 From: nick at esru.strath.ac.uk (Nicolas Kelly) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 09:25:41 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: 2HX stratified tank model In-Reply-To: <201106091644.30488.manzan@units.it> References: <201106091644.30488.manzan@units.it> Message-ID: <1C6300D291585C479F60053DBF140E8A01393C6A3643@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> Thanks Marco, I managed to solve the problem - a pump attached to the solar collector had a flow rate 100 times higher than the default 'rated flow' figure - resulting in a huge, unintended heat gain to the circulating water - this led to instability in the solution and subsequent appearance of NaNs. I really must go into the code and put in a fix for this. Nick Ps how are you progressing with integrating phase change into the stratified tank model? --------------------------------------------------- Nick Kelly BEng (Hons) MSc PhD PGCE FHEA Energy Systems Research Unit Mechanical Engineering University of Strathclyde e: nick at esru.strath.ac.uk t: +44(0)141 548 2854 f: +44(0)141 552 5105 --------------------------------------------------- -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Marco Manzan Sent: 09 June 2011 15:44 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Re: 2HX stratified tank model Alle gioved? 9 giugno 2011, esp-r-request at lists.strath.ac.uk ha scritto: > Send esp-r mailing list submissions to > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > esp-r-request at lists.strath.ac.uk > > You can reach the person managing the list at > esp-r-owner at lists.strath.ac.uk > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of esp-r digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. esp-r does not simulate (A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk) > 2. Re: 2HX stratified tank model (Haddad, Kamel) > 3. Re: 2HX stratified tank model (Nicolas Kelly) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 16:50:12 +0000 > From: A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk > Subject: [esp-r] esp-r does not simulate > To: "esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk" > Message-ID: > <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C1214F90C824 at BELLATRIX.university.brighton.ac > .uk> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Dear All, > > I have reinstalled cygwin and ESP-r in my machine and I still cannot > simulate. The simulation-integrated simulation window doesn't open. I can > carry on all other tasks, change materials and results and analysis works > just fine. Any idea about what I can do? Thank you in advance, kind > regards. > > Arianna > > ___________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security > System on behalf of the University of Brighton. > For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ > ___________________________________________________________ > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110608/d0987eca/att > achment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 14:06:11 -0400 > From: "Haddad, Kamel" > Subject: [esp-r] Re: 2HX stratified tank model > To: "Nicolas Kelly" , > > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Nick, Those would be here: > > tester\test_suite\stratified_tank > > Kamel > ________________________________ > > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk > [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Nicolas Kelly > Sent: June 8, 2011 11:57 > To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Subject: [esp-r] 2HX stratified tank model > > > > Does anyone have an example of a plant network featuring the 2HX > stratified tank model? I'm having problems with the model generating > NaNs at the moment and it would be useful to have a working system for > comparison. > > > > Regards, > > > > Nick Kelly > > > > > > Liathach, Beinn Eighe and Upper Loch Torridon > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110608/ebbc8e32/att > achment-0001.html -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: not available > Type: image/jpeg > Size: 7359 bytes > Desc: image003.jpg > Url : > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110608/ebbc8e32/att > achment-0001.jpe > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 09:19:48 +0100 > From: Nicolas Kelly > Subject: [esp-r] Re: 2HX stratified tank model > To: "'Haddad, Kamel'" , > "esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk" > Message-ID: > <1C6300D291585C479F60053DBF140E8A01393C6A3640 at E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Hi Kamel, > > Thanks, I checked this model out - however the tank is coupled to fixed > flow, fixed temperature connections. My model has the tank coupled to > variable flow, variable temperature sources. What I need to determine is > whether my NaN's are due to a problem with my plant network (i.e. the data > I've used or incorrect connections) or by a bug in the tank model. > > Regards, > > Nick > > --------------------------------------------------- > Nick Kelly BEng (Hons) PgC MSc PhD FHEA > Energy Systems Research Unit > Mechanical Engineering > University of Strathclyde > e: nick at esru.strath.ac.uk > t: +44(0)141 548 2854 > f: +44(0)141 552 5105 > --------------------------------------------------- > > From: Haddad, Kamel [mailto:Kamel.Haddad at NRCan-RNCan.gc.ca] > Sent: 08 June 2011 19:06 > To: Nicolas Kelly; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Subject: RE: [esp-r] 2HX stratified tank model > > Nick, Those would be here: > > tester\test_suite\stratified_tank > > Kamel > ________________________________ > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk > [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Nicolas Kelly Sent: > June 8, 2011 11:57 > To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Subject: [esp-r] 2HX stratified tank model > Does anyone have an example of a plant network featuring the 2HX stratified > tank model? I'm having problems with the model generating NaNs at the > moment and it would be useful to have a working system for comparison. > > Regards, > > Nick Kelly > > [cid:image001.jpg at 01CC2685.BB940E50] > Liathach, Beinn Eighe and Upper Loch Torridon > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110609/eba87e3e/att > achment.html -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: image001.jpg > Type: image/jpeg > Size: 7359 bytes > Desc: image001.jpg > Url : > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110609/eba87e3e/att > achment.jpg > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > > End of esp-r Digest, Vol 59, Issue 7 > ************************************ Hi Nick I've been working a lot with the stratified 2HX tank and I don't think the problem is in this model. I had a lot of problems with instabilities and variable flow when coupling it with a solar collector. I experienced no convergence and NaN problems. I've been simulating a system with boiler and solar collector, both systems connected with pumps and ON-OFF controllers driven by tank temperature. I could obtain a better stability by using a proportional controller for the pump serving the solar collector. Anyway I will send you a model for comparison. Marco -- _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ |Marco Manzan Email: manzan at units.it | |Tel: (+39) 040 5583506 Fax : (+39) 040 572033 | |Dipartimento di Ingegneria Meccanica e Navale | |Universita' degli Studi di Trieste | |via A. Valerio 10, 34127 TRIESTE | |_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _| _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From hma168 at gmail.com Thu Jun 9 20:39:55 2011 From: hma168 at gmail.com (haitham aa) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 12:39:55 -0700 Subject: [esp-r] basics as i thinks Message-ID: Dear friends After greetings, I am new user of ESP-r program and i am attending to do a research on one building in my hometown using ESP-r. The research is about energy conservation. Now, i have some problems with program ( as a new user ) : - How to import 3d cad file to esp-r? because i was trying with a small room example but it didn't work. - after that, can you plz explain to me how i can use specific kind of plant as thermal insulation , so i can get the differences between the energy consumption in both conditions : with and with out plants. I will be thankful if you reply . Thank you very much From achim.geissler at fhnw.ch Fri Jun 10 10:27:41 2011 From: achim.geissler at fhnw.ch (Geissler Achim) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 11:27:41 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: basics as i thinks In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0F4309A75967A944A1E3C19469796698D663F48E11@MXAMU12.adm.ds.fhnw.ch> Dear Haitham What version of ESP-r on which platform are you using? Which Format of 3d CAD did you try? In general, import of .dxf files which follow certain rules (see the ESP-r context help on this, a quite concise description is given) works for non-too-complex geometry. Possibly, the command line works slightly better. What do you mean by "plant as thermal insulation"? If you have the data available (and as a first simple approach) you can define your own material (via Project Manager, database maintenance) and enter the appropriate thermal properties of the plant. However, effects such as evaporation (e.g. grass roof) will not be considered. Out of curiosity: What is your home town? Best Achim -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] Im Auftrag von haitham aa Gesendet: Donnerstag, 9. Juni 2011 21:40 An: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Betreff: [esp-r] basics as i thinks Dear friends After greetings, I am new user of ESP-r program and i am attending to do a research on one building in my hometown using ESP-r. The research is about energy conservation. Now, i have some problems with program ( as a new user ) : - How to import 3d cad file to esp-r? because i was trying with a small room example but it didn't work. - after that, can you plz explain to me how i can use specific kind of plant as thermal insulation , so i can get the differences between the energy consumption in both conditions : with and with out plants. I will be thankful if you reply . Thank you very much _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk Mon Jun 13 16:40:26 2011 From: A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk (A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 15:40:26 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] compile source code Message-ID: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C1214F90D01F@BELLATRIX.university.brighton.ac.uk> Dear All, I recently had a problem with the simulation tool that did not run on my version of ESP-r. I re-installed cygwin and tried with the precompiled versions from the website and an auto running version that Jon Hand had sent me. None of them resolved the problem, I then compiled ESP-r from the source code and I now have a working version. This is what I did: 1. I downloaded tortoise subversion 2. I created a folders home/my user name/src/cvsdude from the cygwin bash window 3. From cvsdude in the cygwin bash I gave the command: svn checkout https://espr.svn.cvsdude.com/esp-r/trunk 4. From home/my user name/src/cvsdude/trunk/src i gave the command ./install The game is done, enjoy your working version, don't waste your time, use the source code! Regards, Arianna Sdei ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110613/019a6834/attachment.html From A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk Mon Jun 13 16:52:31 2011 From: A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk (A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 15:52:31 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] thermal bridges definition Message-ID: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C1214F90D03A@BELLATRIX.university.brighton.ac.uk> Dear All, does anyone have an idea on how to include thermal bridging into esp-r models? I am looking to use a simple method such as enhancing the thermal value of the elements or adding a coefficient of linear thermal transmittance PSI to the corners. I am not looking into the 3d method for the moment. Any suggestion is highly appreciated. Regards. Arianna ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110613/dd2d3aa3/attachment.html From achim.geissler at intergga.ch Mon Jun 13 21:43:57 2011 From: achim.geissler at intergga.ch (Achim Geissler) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 22:43:57 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: compile source code In-Reply-To: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C1214F90D01F@BELLATRIX.university.brighton.ac.uk> References: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C1214F90D01F@BELLATRIX.university.brighton.ac.uk> Message-ID: <62DD25F1-1700-4826-BC5D-D69C6F505D3A@intergga.ch> Dear Arianna nice to hear that you have a working system again. Just for clarification: For what you describe below, Tortoise Subversion is not necessary. A Cygwin installation has subversion included (if chosen at install) and this is used from a bash console in Cygwin. Tortoise comes in handy for Commits / Merges via Windows FileExplorer (somewhat easier to do than the command line procedure under Cygwin). Actually, that is how I also have my Windows environment set up: Edit source code via n++ (quick, free text editor with syntax highlighting), Commit and Merge via Tortoise and compile, run and use via Cygwin bash (in X, of course). Best Achim On Jun 13, 2011, at 5:40 PM, A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk wrote: > Dear All, > > I recently had a problem with the simulation tool that did not run on my version of ESP-r. I re-installed cygwin and tried with the precompiled versions from the website and an auto running version that Jon Hand had sent me. None of them resolved the problem, I then compiled ESP-r from the source code and I now have a working version. This is what I did: > > 1. I downloaded tortoise subversion > > 2. I created a folders home/my user name/src/cvsdude from the cygwin bash window > > 3. From cvsdude in the cygwin bash I gave the command: > svn checkout https://espr.svn.cvsdude.com/esp-r/trunk > > 4. From home/my user name/src/cvsdude/trunk/src i gave the command ./install > > The game is done, enjoy your working version, don?t waste your time, use the source code! > > Regards, > Arianna Sdei > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security > System on behalf of the University of Brighton. > For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ > ___________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r achim.geissler at intergga.ch -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110613/aecd6d67/attachment.html From claricebleil at yahoo.com.br Tue Jun 14 09:51:21 2011 From: claricebleil at yahoo.com.br (Clarice Bleil de Souza) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2011 01:51:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [esp-r] Job Advert related to simulation Message-ID: <106131.74728.qm@web39323.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Research Assistant: IEE iSERV Project Closing date: 21 June 2011 Type: Academic Duration: Fixed-term until 6 May 2014 Hours of work: This is either one full-time position of 35 hours per week or possibly two part-time positions of 17.5 hours per week Date of appointment: Post is available immediately Salary: ?24370 - ?28251 per annum (Grade 5). It is not anticipated that an appointment be made above ?27428 per annum (point 27) Further information: http://www.cf.ac.uk/jobs/archi/research-assistant-iee-iserv-project-3707.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110614/c924bcaa/attachment.html From l.f.r.peeters at gmail.com Tue Jun 14 12:22:28 2011 From: l.f.r.peeters at gmail.com (leen peeters) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2011 13:22:28 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Job Advert related to simulation In-Reply-To: <106131.74728.qm@web39323.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <106131.74728.qm@web39323.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear Clarice, is there anyone I can contact regarding this position? I am currently a part-time faculty at the VUB (University of Brussels) and connected to the University of Texas at Austin. The proposed reserach is in my field, but there are some practical issues I would like to figure out. Kind regards, Leen Peeters, PhD On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 10:51 AM, Clarice Bleil de Souza < claricebleil at yahoo.com.br> wrote: > Research Assistant: IEE iSERV Project Closing date: 21 June 2011 > > Type: Academic > > Duration: Fixed-term until 6 May 2014 > > Hours of work: This is either one full-time position of 35 hours per week > or possibly two part-time positions of 17.5 hours per week > > Date of appointment: Post is available immediately > > Salary: ?24370 - ?28251 per annum (Grade 5). It is not anticipated that an > appointment be made above ?27428 per annum (point 27) > > Further information: > > http://www.cf.ac.uk/jobs/archi/research-assistant-iee-iserv-project-3707.html > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110614/f87ab698/attachment.html From achim.geissler at intergga.ch Tue Jun 14 20:23:20 2011 From: achim.geissler at intergga.ch (Achim Geissler) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2011 21:23:20 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: thermal bridges definition In-Reply-To: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C1214F90D03A@BELLATRIX.university.brighton.ac.uk> References: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C1214F90D03A@BELLATRIX.university.brighton.ac.uk> Message-ID: Dear Arianna if you haven't found it by now, there is a new feature in ESP-r (with the new .geo format) that allows for entering linear loss coefficients for each joint between two surfaces. You may have noticed the "bridge len" lines being given in the Project Manager console window. Look for the menu entry "j Thermal Bridges" in Geometry and Attribution menu of zone edit. Best Achim On Jun 13, 2011, at 5:52 PM, A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk wrote: > Dear All, > > does anyone have an idea on how to include thermal bridging into esp-r models? I am looking to use a simple method such as enhancing the thermal value of the elements or adding a coefficient of linear thermal transmittance PSI to the corners. I am not looking into the 3d method for the moment. Any suggestion is highly appreciated. > > Regards. > Arianna > > ___________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security > System on behalf of the University of Brighton. > For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ > ___________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r achim.geissler at intergga.ch -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110614/faaf059e/attachment.html From A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk Wed Jun 15 15:07:09 2011 From: A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk (A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 14:07:09 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] low with argon fill Message-ID: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C1214F9114B0@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> Dear All, I am modelling some low-e + argon gas filled windows with esp-r. I change the database settings from ordinary double glazing to low-e + argon gas filled. The U-value increases from 2.8 to over 5. The results are fine (I can see a reduction of heating load) and I am curious to know what is going on there and if I can change the U-value. Does anyone know? Thank you, Regards, Arianna ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110615/1e324627/attachment.html From achim.geissler at intergga.ch Wed Jun 15 18:21:54 2011 From: achim.geissler at intergga.ch (Achim Geissler) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 19:21:54 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: low with argon fill In-Reply-To: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C1214F9114B0@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> References: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C1214F9114B0@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> Message-ID: <7E26BDE2-86A3-47BC-BBCC-70EA9B612230@intergga.ch> Dear Arianna where did you take the U-value you give from? If you see a reduction in heating load, the U-value used seems to be O.K. If you are using standard TMCs, "low e" or "argon" is only a name and does not have any real influence on the U-value. This is set by the resistance of the gap(s) between the panes of an IGU. In the construction data base, you can see the U-value when you edit the construction, e.g. change the resistance of the gap. Also, you could check via QA report. Best Achim On Jun 15, 2011, at 4:07 PM, A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk wrote: > Dear All, > > I am modelling some low-e + argon gas filled windows with esp-r. I change the database settings from ordinary double glazing to low-e + argon gas filled. The U-value increases from 2.8 to over 5. The results are fine (I can see a reduction of heating load) and I am curious to know what is going on there and if I can change the U-value. Does anyone know? Thank you, > > Regards, > Arianna > > ___________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security > System on behalf of the University of Brighton. > For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ > ___________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r achim.geissler at intergga.ch -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110615/97e23c54/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Wed Jun 15 22:27:18 2011 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 22:27:18 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: clarification of ESP_r air gap specification in low-e glazing Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA4130194A847739E@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> It seems that the ESP-r Cookbook is rather terse on this aspect of constructions and glazing. I attach some images which clarify what is going on. a) in the materials databases there are a number of classes of materials and there is a class labeled GAPS b) looking in GAPS there are a number of items. Although there are some that are labeled argon filled the best material to pick is the top one labeled air gap. c) the last image is of a tripple glazed window where the standard air gap material (equivalent to the legacy material zero) has had its air gap resistance revised so that the U value matches the manufacturers specification for low-e coatings. So, leave the GAP materials c/d/e/f/g (in the image) alone for now and select the GAP material a and modify its resistance once it is in the multi-layer construction. The Cookbook should be updated to clarify air gaps. Thanks for pointing out the current lack of documentation. Regards, Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Achim Geissler [achim.geissler at intergga.ch] Sent: 15 June 2011 18:21 To: A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk Cc: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Re: low with argon fill Dear Arianna where did you take the U-value you give from? If you see a reduction in heating load, the U-value used seems to be O.K. If you are using standard TMCs, "low e" or "argon" is only a name and does not have any real influence on the U-value. This is set by the resistance of the gap(s) between the panes of an IGU. In the construction data base, you can see the U-value when you edit the construction, e.g. change the resistance of the gap. Also, you could check via QA report. Best Achim On Jun 15, 2011, at 4:07 PM, A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk wrote: Dear All, I am modelling some low-e + argon gas filled windows with esp-r. I change the database settings from ordinary double glazing to low-e + argon gas filled. The U-value increases from 2.8 to over 5. The results are fine (I can see a reduction of heating load) and I am curious to know what is going on there and if I can change the U-value. Does anyone know? Thank you, Regards, Arianna ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r achim.geissler at intergga.ch -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: materials_classes.tiff Type: image/tiff Size: 20526 bytes Desc: materials_classes.tiff Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110615/b9dd8cde/attachment-0003.tiff -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: gap_materials.tiff Type: image/tiff Size: 27980 bytes Desc: gap_materials.tiff Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110615/b9dd8cde/attachment-0004.tiff -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: tripple_glz_layers.tiff Type: image/tiff Size: 17554 bytes Desc: tripple_glz_layers.tiff Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110615/b9dd8cde/attachment-0005.tiff From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Thu Jun 16 11:23:12 2011 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 11:23:12 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: clarification of ESP_r air gap specification in low-e glazing In-Reply-To: <0F4309A75967A944A1E3C19469796698D6641AE54F@MXAMU12.adm.ds.fhnw.ch> References: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA4130194A847739E@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk>, <0F4309A75967A944A1E3C19469796698D6641AE54F@MXAMU12.adm.ds.fhnw.ch> Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA4130194A84773A4@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> I think the current approach is a bit more flexible - there are 3 values for air gap resistance - one for wall positions, one for sloped and one for horizontal positions. As long as the values are input correctly for the 3 orientation cases the logic in the simulator will check for the orientation of the surface the construction has been associated with in order to get the resistance value. In the example given the same R value was used for each position (just being lazy) and assuming there was no skylight use of the unit. -Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: Geissler Achim [achim.geissler at fhnw.ch] Sent: 16 June 2011 07:32 To: Jon Hand Cc: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: AW: [esp-r] Re: clarification of ESP_r air gap specification in low-e glazing Hi Jon thats an interesting topic, come to think of it. An IGU will drastically lose performance when used horizontal with heat flow upward - the ESP-r logic only takes internal heat transfer coefficient into account, though. Possibly this could be changes for TMCs? As a rule of thumb, the U-value of a horizontal IGU with heat flow upward is approx. 140 - 150 % of the vertical-with-horizontal-heat-flow value. As it is now, the user must think of this and create an additional construction for horizontal glazing, even if the actual product is the same as used in a vertical position. Best Achim -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] Im Auftrag von Jon Hand Gesendet: Mittwoch, 15. Juni 2011 23:27 An: Achim Geissler; A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk Cc: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Betreff: [esp-r] Re: clarification of ESP_r air gap specification in low-e glazing It seems that the ESP-r Cookbook is rather terse on this aspect of constructions and glazing. I attach some images which clarify what is going on. a) in the materials databases there are a number of classes of materials and there is a class labeled GAPS b) looking in GAPS there are a number of items. Although there are some that are labeled argon filled the best material to pick is the top one labeled air gap. c) the last image is of a tripple glazed window where the standard air gap material (equivalent to the legacy material zero) has had its air gap resistance revised so that the U value matches the manufacturers specification for low-e coatings. So, leave the GAP materials c/d/e/f/g (in the image) alone for now and select the GAP material a and modify its resistance once it is in the multi-layer construction. The Cookbook should be updated to clarify air gaps. Thanks for pointing out the current lack of documentation. Regards, Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Achim Geissler [achim.geissler at intergga.ch] Sent: 15 June 2011 18:21 To: A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk Cc: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Re: low with argon fill Dear Arianna where did you take the U-value you give from? If you see a reduction in heating load, the U-value used seems to be O.K. If you are using standard TMCs, "low e" or "argon" is only a name and does not have any real influence on the U-value. This is set by the resistance of the gap(s) between the panes of an IGU. In the construction data base, you can see the U-value when you edit the construction, e.g. change the resistance of the gap. Also, you could check via QA report. Best Achim On Jun 15, 2011, at 4:07 PM, A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk wrote: Dear All, I am modelling some low-e + argon gas filled windows with esp-r. I change the database settings from ordinary double glazing to low-e + argon gas filled. The U-value increases from 2.8 to over 5. The results are fine (I can see a reduction of heating load) and I am curious to know what is going on there and if I can change the U-value. Does anyone know? Thank you, Regards, Arianna ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r achim.geissler at intergga.ch From achim.geissler at fhnw.ch Thu Jun 16 07:32:18 2011 From: achim.geissler at fhnw.ch (Geissler Achim) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 08:32:18 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: clarification of ESP_r air gap specification in low-e glazing In-Reply-To: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA4130194A847739E@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> References: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA4130194A847739E@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> Message-ID: <0F4309A75967A944A1E3C19469796698D6641AE54F@MXAMU12.adm.ds.fhnw.ch> Hi Jon thats an interesting topic, come to think of it. An IGU will drastically lose performance when used horizontal with heat flow upward - the ESP-r logic only takes internal heat transfer coefficient into account, though. Possibly this could be changes for TMCs? As a rule of thumb, the U-value of a horizontal IGU with heat flow upward is approx. 140 - 150 % of the vertical-with-horizontal-heat-flow value. As it is now, the user must think of this and create an additional construction for horizontal glazing, even if the actual product is the same as used in a vertical position. Best Achim -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] Im Auftrag von Jon Hand Gesendet: Mittwoch, 15. Juni 2011 23:27 An: Achim Geissler; A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk Cc: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Betreff: [esp-r] Re: clarification of ESP_r air gap specification in low-e glazing It seems that the ESP-r Cookbook is rather terse on this aspect of constructions and glazing. I attach some images which clarify what is going on. a) in the materials databases there are a number of classes of materials and there is a class labeled GAPS b) looking in GAPS there are a number of items. Although there are some that are labeled argon filled the best material to pick is the top one labeled air gap. c) the last image is of a tripple glazed window where the standard air gap material (equivalent to the legacy material zero) has had its air gap resistance revised so that the U value matches the manufacturers specification for low-e coatings. So, leave the GAP materials c/d/e/f/g (in the image) alone for now and select the GAP material a and modify its resistance once it is in the multi-layer construction. The Cookbook should be updated to clarify air gaps. Thanks for pointing out the current lack of documentation. Regards, Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Achim Geissler [achim.geissler at intergga.ch] Sent: 15 June 2011 18:21 To: A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk Cc: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Re: low with argon fill Dear Arianna where did you take the U-value you give from? If you see a reduction in heating load, the U-value used seems to be O.K. If you are using standard TMCs, "low e" or "argon" is only a name and does not have any real influence on the U-value. This is set by the resistance of the gap(s) between the panes of an IGU. In the construction data base, you can see the U-value when you edit the construction, e.g. change the resistance of the gap. Also, you could check via QA report. Best Achim On Jun 15, 2011, at 4:07 PM, A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk wrote: Dear All, I am modelling some low-e + argon gas filled windows with esp-r. I change the database settings from ordinary double glazing to low-e + argon gas filled. The U-value increases from 2.8 to over 5. The results are fine (I can see a reduction of heating load) and I am curious to know what is going on there and if I can change the U-value. Does anyone know? Thank you, Regards, Arianna ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r achim.geissler at intergga.ch From Gunter.Pueltz at MuellerBBM.de Fri Jun 17 08:54:26 2011 From: Gunter.Pueltz at MuellerBBM.de (Pueltz, Gunter) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 09:54:26 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] transparent heat insulation - optical properties ??? Message-ID: <324E563ADB028A4CAF79CE7CD1941A20163F77@s-muc-ex02.mbbm-group.com> Has anyone simulated a room with a facade with transparent heat insulation by ESP-r ? Are optical properties available for such a transparent-multilayer-construction ? Regards, Gunter -- Dr. Gunter P?ltz M?ller-BBM GmbH Robert-Koch-Stra?e 11 82152 Planegg Telefon +49(89)85602-336 Telefax +49(89)85602-111 E-Mail Gunter.Pueltz at MuellerBBM.de http://www.MuellerBBM.de HRB M?nchen 86143 Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Horst Christian Gass, Bernd Gr?zinger, Dr. Carl-Christian Hantschk, Stefan Schierer, Dr. Edwin Schorer, Norbert Suritsch From Gunter.Pueltz at MuellerBBM.de Fri Jun 17 13:16:47 2011 From: Gunter.Pueltz at MuellerBBM.de (Pueltz, Gunter) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 14:16:47 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] modelling a BRTF in ESP ... ??? Message-ID: <324E563ADB028A4CAF79CE7CD1941A20163F7E@s-muc-ex02.mbbm-group.com> Dear ESP-Specialists, does the current version 11.10 of ESP -r provide the modelling of a translucent facade construction, whose optical properties are defined by a Bidirectional-Reflection-Transmission-Function (BRTF) ? Regards, Gunter -- Dr. Gunter P?ltz M?ller-BBM GmbH Robert-Koch-Stra?e 11 82152 Planegg Telefon +49(89)85602-336 Telefax +49(89)85602-111 E-Mail Gunter.Pueltz at MuellerBBM.de http://www.MuellerBBM.de HRB M?nchen 86143 Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Horst Christian Gass, Bernd Gr?zinger, Dr. Carl-Christian Hantschk, Stefan Schierer, Dr. Edwin Schorer, Norbert Suritsch From achim.geissler at fhnw.ch Fri Jun 17 13:58:30 2011 From: achim.geissler at fhnw.ch (Geissler Achim) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 14:58:30 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: modelling a BRTF in ESP ... ??? In-Reply-To: <324E563ADB028A4CAF79CE7CD1941A20163F7E@s-muc-ex02.mbbm-group.com> References: <324E563ADB028A4CAF79CE7CD1941A20163F7E@s-muc-ex02.mbbm-group.com> Message-ID: <0F4309A75967A944A1E3C19469796698D6642F7D01@MXAMU12.adm.ds.fhnw.ch> Dear Gunter if you are looking for the impact in regard to daylighting, then yes - by setting up coupling with Radiance. Also, there is an "advanced optics" function which may also be what you are looking for (bi-directional data model where the two directions are in the plane of the transparent surface). Best Achim -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] Im Auftrag von Pueltz, Gunter Gesendet: Freitag, 17. Juni 2011 14:17 An: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Betreff: [esp-r] modelling a BRTF in ESP ... ??? Dear ESP-Specialists, does the current version 11.10 of ESP -r provide the modelling of a translucent facade construction, whose optical properties are defined by a Bidirectional-Reflection-Transmission-Function (BRTF) ? Regards, Gunter -- Dr. Gunter P?ltz M?ller-BBM GmbH Robert-Koch-Stra?e 11 82152 Planegg Telefon +49(89)85602-336 Telefax +49(89)85602-111 E-Mail Gunter.Pueltz at MuellerBBM.de http://www.MuellerBBM.de HRB M?nchen 86143 Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Horst Christian Gass, Bernd Gr?zinger, Dr. Carl-Christian Hantschk, Stefan Schierer, Dr. Edwin Schorer, Norbert Suritsch _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From kt620620 at gmail.com Mon Jun 20 05:20:00 2011 From: kt620620 at gmail.com (keisuke tsuji) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 13:20:00 +0900 Subject: [esp-r] surface flux (convection, LW radiation, SW radiation) Message-ID: Dear All, I'm a beginner of ESP-r. I make research with Japanese building by ESP-r now. I've already made some simulations. I can get the zone temperatures and heat/cool/humidify flux, etc. But I can't get the surface flux (convection, LW radiation, SW radiation), In surface flux window, I can select every surface flux parts, as well as other date. After the result analysis, all values in surface are zero. (It takes very long time.) Do I need any other steps to get surface flux in result analysis? Or, Do I need any other setting when I make the model? Every suggestions are appreciated. Regards, Keisuke Tsuji, Hokkaido Univ, Japan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110620/7f7a43ad/attachment.html From achim.geissler at fhnw.ch Mon Jun 20 09:05:37 2011 From: achim.geissler at fhnw.ch (Geissler Achim) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 10:05:37 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: surface flux (convection, LW radiation, SW radiation) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0F4309A75967A944A1E3C19469796698D6642F8041@MXAMU12.adm.ds.fhnw.ch> Dear Keisuke Tsuji possibly the save level with which you are doing the simulation must be changed. Which save level are you using (check/change in "simulation" menu, fairly at the top of the menu entries)? For most situations, save level 4 is good (if you need layer temperatures, though, you need to use save level 3). Best Achim .cfg: # sim setup: no. sets startup zone_ts plant_ts save_lv @ 1 ts/hr *sps 1 5 10 10 4 1 save level 4 ====^ 1 7 7 7 default # period & name Von: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] Im Auftrag von keisuke tsuji Gesendet: Montag, 20. Juni 2011 06:20 An: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Betreff: [esp-r] surface flux (convection, LW radiation, SW radiation) Dear All, I'm a beginner of ESP-r. I make research with Japanese building by ESP-r now. I've already made some simulations. I can get the zone temperatures and heat/cool/humidify flux, etc. But I can't get the surface flux (convection, LW radiation, SW radiation), In surface flux window, I can select every surface flux parts, as well as other date. After the result analysis, all values in surface are zero. (It takes very long time.) Do I need any other steps to get surface flux in result analysis? Or, Do I need any other setting when I make the model? Every suggestions are appreciated. Regards, Keisuke Tsuji, Hokkaido Univ, Japan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110620/399d4231/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Mon Jun 20 09:17:02 2011 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 09:17:02 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: surface flux (convection, LW radiation, SW radiation) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA4130194A84773BA@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> First suggestion: a) when running a simulation check the "save level" is equal to 4 so that the separate values of surface flux are reported. b) the "it takes a long time" might indicate that there is a numerical problem in your model - do the zone temperatures seem to be reasonable?, is the heating or cooling what you expect? c) can you get a report/graph on surface temperatures? If so do they make sense? d) also - use the 'model QA' facility to get a listing of the contents of the model - it may report issues that need to be corrected. If still a problem it may be necessary to send your model for checking. -Jon ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of keisuke tsuji [kt620620 at gmail.com] Sent: 20 June 2011 05:20 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] surface flux (convection, LW radiation, SW radiation) Dear All, I'm a beginner of ESP-r. I make research with Japanese building by ESP-r now. I've already made some simulations. I can get the zone temperatures and heat/cool/humidify flux, etc. But I can't get the surface flux (convection, LW radiation, SW radiation), In surface flux window, I can select every surface flux parts, as well as other date. After the result analysis, all values in surface are zero. (It takes very long time.) Do I need any other steps to get surface flux in result analysis? Or, Do I need any other setting when I make the model? Every suggestions are appreciated. Regards, Keisuke Tsuji, Hokkaido Univ, Japan From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Tue Jun 21 09:25:37 2011 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 09:25:37 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Looking for examples of flow networks which include converging and/or diverging junctions. Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA4130194A84773C5@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> I am looking at improving the documentation of flow network components as well as getting some example networks which use some of the less-used components. Sometimes one is confronted with the need to define a hybrid of mech vent ducting and opening windows. The 3-leg diverging and converging components seem rather opaque (to me) and this is not helped by the lack of a good (i.e. known to work) examples and detailed procedures for transforming the data listed in standard handbooks e.g. ASHRAE F. section 34, into parameters for flow components within a network. If anyone has a flow network that uses diverging or converging components and the background information that the network was derived from this would be a great starting point. Please let me know..... Regards, Jon Hand From susasaiz at gmail.com Wed Jun 22 08:55:15 2011 From: susasaiz at gmail.com (Susana Saiz Alcazar) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 09:55:15 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] esp-r CFD feature-temperature gradients Message-ID: Hi all, I would like to develop a CFD model to evaluate the air temperature gradient above roofs with different covering materials. I would like to know if the CFD feature of esp-r would work for this purpose and if there is any tutorial for this feature. Thanks a lot, Susana -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110622/d91665cd/attachment.html From achim.geissler at fhnw.ch Wed Jun 22 09:13:07 2011 From: achim.geissler at fhnw.ch (Geissler Achim) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 10:13:07 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: esp-r CFD feature-temperature gradients In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0F4309A75967A944A1E3C19469796698D66446BCF2@MXAMU12.adm.ds.fhnw.ch> Dear Susana the ESP-r CFD module is for zones, only. So, you would need to define your "outside" above the roof as a zone - which of course has its implications in regard to boundary conditions (wind, radiation incidence). Also, the CFD module is restricted to right-angles kind of simple zones with rectangular floor sections. You can couple a CFD zone to an air flow network. As far as I am aware, there is no tutorial, as such. There is an exemplar, I think. Best Achim Von: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] Im Auftrag von Susana Saiz Alcazar Gesendet: Mittwoch, 22. Juni 2011 09:55 An: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Betreff: [esp-r] esp-r CFD feature-temperature gradients Hi all, I would like to develop a CFD model to evaluate the air temperature gradient above roofs with different covering materials. I would like to know if the CFD feature of esp-r would work for this purpose and if there is any tutorial for this feature. Thanks a lot, Susana -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110622/fd27c49b/attachment.html From hrsantos at fe.up.pt Thu Jun 23 13:40:37 2011 From: hrsantos at fe.up.pt (Hugo Santos) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 13:40:37 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Strange CFC error. Message-ID: Hi, I'm getting a strange error in a fairly small model that I'm working in: --- The CFC file ..\zones/Class2_1.cfc not sure if door1 is a complex fenestration constr. Check your zone files. --- Several of these error lines come up when I enter the simulation menu. I'm using the CFC model for some windows. At first I had it applied to six windows and the model was running fine and results were good. However, after changing some of the CFC surfaces and adding four more windows to other zones (which didn't have any CFC surfaces previously), these errors started to appear and the simulations either don't run or return no results. The strangest part is that the surface (in the example above is "door1") does not belong to that zone (in the above example Class2_1). Also, the other error lines, which are mostly repetitions of this message but referring different zones and/or surfaces, all seem to refer to surfaces in a specific zone (Class1_1). I tried to find if the files have any obvious mistake or corrupt data (using Notepad++) but I can't find anything wrong with them. All the zones are correctly bound, the connections and attributions are correct, even the vertices' order on the surfaces is correct, following the correct order and starting with an horizontal edge? I tried checking everything I could think of but to no avail. So, as a last resort, I'm turning to the ESP-r community and asking if any of you as ever found this error and if there is any known cause and solution for it. If not, does anyone have any idea of what should I do or check next? Thanks in advance for any help. Hugo Santos Faculty of Engineering of the University of Porto, Portugal -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110623/c81e15ad/attachment.html From Bartosz.Lomanowski at NRCan-RNCan.gc.ca Thu Jun 23 18:11:35 2011 From: Bartosz.Lomanowski at NRCan-RNCan.gc.ca (Lomanowski, Bartosz) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 13:11:35 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Strange CFC error References: Message-ID: Hi Hugo, I'm pretty sure these are only reporting errors in prj. Please disregard these messages and look at the *.cfc zone file to double check your CFC inputs. I will attempt to reproduce the error message and debug it. Thanks, Bart Lomanowski NRCan, Canada Message: 1 Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 13:40:37 +0100 From: Hugo Santos Subject: [esp-r] Strange CFC error. To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Hi, I'm getting a strange error in a fairly small model that I'm working in: --- The CFC file ..\zones/Class2_1.cfc not sure if door1 is a complex fenestration constr. Check your zone files. --- Several of these error lines come up when I enter the simulation menu. I'm using the CFC model for some windows. At first I had it applied to six windows and the model was running fine and results were good. However, after changing some of the CFC surfaces and adding four more windows to other zones (which didn't have any CFC surfaces previously), these errors started to appear and the simulations either don't run or return no results. The strangest part is that the surface (in the example above is "door1") does not belong to that zone (in the above example Class2_1). Also, the other error lines, which are mostly repetitions of this message but referring different zones and/or surfaces, all seem to refer to surfaces in a specific zone (Class1_1). I tried to find if the files have any obvious mistake or corrupt data (using Notepad++) but I can't find anything wrong with them. All the zones are correctly bound, the connections and attributions are correct, even the vertices' order on the surfaces is correct, following the correct order and starting with an horizontal edge? I tried checking everything I could think of but to no avail. So, as a last resort, I'm turning to the ESP-r community and asking if any of you as ever found this error and if there is any known cause and solution for it. If not, does anyone have any idea of what should I do or check next? Thanks in advance for any help. Hugo Santos -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 4966 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110623/bfd69cc1/attachment.bin From ibeausol at mae.carleton.ca Wed Jun 29 03:03:34 2011 From: ibeausol at mae.carleton.ca (Ian Beausoleil-Morrison) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2011 22:03:34 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] release of ESP-r version 11.11 Message-ID: <000601cc3600$c0d9f070$428dd150$@carleton.ca> ESP-r users and developers, Version 11.11 of the ESP-r system is now available. A summary of the changes and new features included in this release is given at the bottom of this e-mail. The source code may be accessed via the ESP-r Central Subversion repository. To do this, you must first install a Subversion client on your system. Free clients are available at http://subversion.tigris.org/getting.html. Once you have installed the Subversion client you can download the source code for version 11.11 of ESP-r anonymously using the following command: svn checkout https://espr.svn.cvsdude.com/esp-r/trunk If you already downloaded the source code of a previous version with the above command, then you do not have to do a full download of version 11.11. Rather, you can update the source code by executing the following command from your "trunk" directory: svn update (ESP-r developers who wish to make source code contributions to ESP-r should contact Bart Lomanowski at Bartosz.Lomanowski at nrcan.gc.ca who can configure an account for you on ESP-r Central. Further information on ESP-r Central for developers is available at http://www.esru.strath.ac.uk/Programs/ESP-r_central.htm.) ESP-r source code is available exclusively through ESP-r Central. However, you can obtain pre-compiled versions for specific operating environments on ESRU's web site. These pre-compiled versions will be made available shortly following a source code release and will be announced to this e-mail list. Regards, Ian Beausoleil-Morrison ESP-r Archivist on behalf of the ESP-r development team Carleton University Ottawa, Canada Release Notes 11.11 (June 2011) ================= Simulation capabilities ----------------------- - Capabilities have been added to allow the three supported infiltration methods (scheduled infiltration through .opr files, AIM-2, and air flow network) to be used in concert during a simulation. Control capabilities have been added to allow the switching between methods based upon a sensed temperature. For example, a user might use the AIM-2 model to characterize infiltration when a zone temperature drops below 20oC (and windows are assumed to close), and the airflow network at higher temperatures. - The existing facility for modelling lead-acid and VRB batteries within the electric power domain has been extended to consider lithium-ion batteries. These new modelling capabilities are described in Neil Saldanha's M.A.Sc. thesis, which is available at the following link: http://sbes.mae.carleton.ca/documents/Neil Saldanha - MASc Thesis (2010).pdf - Some minor bugs were identified in the existing battery models and repairs were effected. - Building-side features can now be used to explicitly model systems. This is achieved by allowing zones to be filled with fluids other than air (this affects solar absorption) and connected to flow networks established to represent any fluid type. This enables, for example, the explicit modelling of water solar collectors and water-cooled windows. - Some of the computational overhead associated with XML/CSV reporting has been reduced. This results in about a 35-40% reduction in simulation run-time with when this facility is active. This has no affect on run-time when the XML/CSV facility is not invoked. - A long-standing bug in the thermally activated cooling plant component model has been repaired. With this, the dependency of the chiller's COP to the condenser air temperature was incorrectly calculated. This change affects simulation results for all models incorporating this plant component, but only for cases with non-constant COP. - Support has been added for defining certain advanced simulation options in the .cfg file. Previously only accessible in a password- protected menu, these presets can now be defined statically and invoked in silent-running mode. Currently two presets are supported: solar processing and building solution implicitness. They are set as follows: *sim-toggle bld-soln-implicitness 1.0000 *sim-toggle bld-solar-processing enabled Project Manager --------------- - The file browsing facilities for editing BASESIMP descriptions has been improved. - Optical data from Window 6.2 can now be imported. - Optical data from TNO's WIS application can now be imported. - The facility that archives model files to a 'tar' file has been updated. - The facility that exports an ESP-r model to an EnergyPlus IDF file now generates the V3 format. The EnergyPlus conventions for parent and child surfaces are now correctly supported. Parent and child surface relationships are also now supported in the Project Manager. - The error messaging related to scanning plant network files has been improved. - By default, plant network files are now written in the verbose format. - The QA reporting has been improved for plant network controls. - The interface and file handling for internal surface convective coefficients has been improved. - The model contents report for integrated performance views has been updated to cope with local climate files. With this change, warnings about zero dates are no longer given. - The interface that allows all the unreferenced vertices in a zone to be removed via one command has been updated. This is useful for tidying zones with complex geometries. - Support has been added to the Project Manager to allow it to read and write .cfg files that include the *mvnt flag; this is used for treating ventilation systems in the ideal HVAC models. General ------- - The programming structures that implement contextual help have been reconfigured to facilitate maintenance. Concurrent to this, the information for many help dialogues has been improved. - An annoying bug that caused the plant database manager to switch from graphic to text mode has been repaired. - A number of variables have been added to the XML/CSV reporting facility. - The out.dictionary format (utilized with XML/CSV reporting) has been altered to improve its clarity. - Several small bug fixes related to stand-alone CFD simulations and Tecplot output have been repaired. Additional Changes ------------------ - Many additional changes have been made that are transparent to the user. Information on these, as well as further details on all the above-mentioned changes, can be found in ESP-r Central's change log. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110628/477b7dba/attachment.html From koji_takemasa at me.com Sun Jul 3 10:50:21 2011 From: koji_takemasa at me.com (=?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCSXBALxsoQiAbJEI5JzwjGyhC?=) Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2011 09:50:21 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [esp-r] Error occured Message-ID: <719c64ac-6246-4f7e-b072-ae35f65d941e@me.com> Hi I downloaded the source code of esp-r11.11. And, as follows was done and it compiled. $ sudo ./Install -d /opt/esru --gcc4 It is not possible to start by displaying the error when starting. Please teach the coping process. (error log) display :0.0 doesn't know font -*-lucida-medium-r-*-*-10-*-*-*-*-*-*-* ... 2nd choice font 6x12ucida-medium-r-*-*-10-*-*-*-*-*-*-* has not been found so quitting. It is my first experience though have compiled many times by me up to now. Regards,? ----- Name : Koji Takemasa E-mail : koji_takemasa at mac.com URL : http://web.me.com/koji_takemasa/MobileMe/LEAD_Project.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110703/bd6c7ad6/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Mon Jul 4 14:39:15 2011 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 14:39:15 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Error occured In-Reply-To: <719c64ac-6246-4f7e-b072-ae35f65d941e@me.com> References: <719c64ac-6246-4f7e-b072-ae35f65d941e@me.com> Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA4130194A847742A@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> This is probably the GTK interface version of ESP-r? It is looking for a font to use. It does not find the main font or the 2nd choice font. Because of this it does not have sufficient resources to work. The lucidia fonts tend to be standard on most Linux/Unix/OSX machines. This machine does not seem to have them. Using the package manager for the operating system check if there are additional font sets that can be installed for the X11 environent - one of them might have lucida. Perhaps someone else might have further details about which font set to look for? Regards Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of ?? ?? [koji_takemasa at me.com] Sent: 03 July 2011 10:50 To: ESP-r mailing list Subject: [esp-r] Error occured Hi I downloaded the source code of esp-r11.11. And, as follows was done and it compiled. $ sudo ./Install -d /opt/esru --gcc4 It is not possible to start by displaying the error when starting. Please teach the coping process. (error log) display :0.0 doesn't know font -*-lucida-medium-r-*-*-10-*-*-*-*-*-*-* ... 2nd choice font 6x12ucida-medium-r-*-*-10-*-*-*-*-*-*-* has not been found so quitting. It is my first experience though have compiled many times by me up to now. Regards, ----- Name : Koji Takemasa E-mail : koji_takemasa at mac.com URL : http://web.me.com/koji_takemasa/MobileMe/LEAD_Project.html From hrsantos at gmail.com Mon Jul 4 16:20:04 2011 From: hrsantos at gmail.com (Hugo Santos) Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 16:20:04 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Error occured In-Reply-To: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA4130194A847742A@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> References: <719c64ac-6246-4f7e-b072-ae35f65d941e@me.com> <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA4130194A847742A@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> Message-ID: Interestingly, last week I was also compiling ESP-r version 11.11 in Ubuntu running in VirtualBox and got exactly the same error message. I was compiling the X11 version, but when I tried with the GTK version no error came up. It is just working fine. The Ubuntu install was a clean one (11.04) with mostly the default packages and some added "dev" ones needed for ESP-r. Best regards, Hugo Santos 2011/7/4 Jon Hand > > This is probably the GTK interface version of ESP-r? > > It is looking for a font to use. It does not find the main font or the 2nd > choice font. Because of this > it does not have sufficient resources to work. > > The lucidia fonts tend to be standard on most Linux/Unix/OSX machines. > This machine does not > seem to have them. Using the package manager for the operating system > check if there are > additional font sets that can be installed for the X11 environent - one of > them might have lucida. > > Perhaps someone else might have further details about which font set to > look for? > > Regards Jon Hand > ________________________________________ > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] > On Behalf Of ?? ?? [koji_takemasa at me.com] > Sent: 03 July 2011 10:50 > To: ESP-r mailing list > Subject: [esp-r] Error occured > > Hi > I downloaded the source code of esp-r11.11. And, as follows was done and it > compiled. > > $ sudo ./Install -d /opt/esru --gcc4 > > It is not possible to start by displaying the error when starting. Please > teach the coping process. > > (error log) > display :0.0 doesn't know font -*-lucida-medium-r-*-*-10-*-*-*-*-*-*-* ... > 2nd choice font 6x12ucida-medium-r-*-*-10-*-*-*-*-*-*-* has not been found > so quitting. > > It is my first experience though have compiled many times by me up to now. > > Regards, > > ----- > Name : Koji Takemasa > E-mail : koji_takemasa at mac.com > URL : http://web.me.com/koji_takemasa/MobileMe/LEAD_Project.html > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110704/30f453e5/attachment.html From koji_takemasa at me.com Tue Jul 5 02:18:24 2011 From: koji_takemasa at me.com (=?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCSXBALxsoQiAbJEI5JzwjGyhC?=) Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2011 01:18:24 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [esp-r] Re: Error occured In-Reply-To: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA4130194A847742A@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> Message-ID: <12cfef28-79e9-6fe8-f528-d8e44b23a3f6@me.com> Hi I compiled ESP-r by using the X11 library.? ESP-r compiled by using the GTK library doesn't cause the error.? Regard, ----- Name : Koji Takemasa E-mail : koji_takemasa at mac.com URL : http://web.me.com/koji_takemasa/MobileMe/LEAD_Project.html This is probably the GTK interface version of ESP-r? It is looking for a font to use. It does not find the main font or the 2nd choice font. Because of this it does not have sufficient resources to work. The lucidia fonts tend to be standard on most Linux/Unix/OSX machines. This machine does not seem to have them. Using the package manager for the operating system check if there are additional font sets that can be installed for the X11 environent - one of them might have lucida. Perhaps someone else might have further details about which font set to look for? Regards Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of ?? ?? [koji_takemasa at me.com] Sent: 03 July 2011 10:50 To: ESP-r mailing list Subject: [esp-r] Error occured Hi I downloaded the source code of esp-r11.11. And, as follows was done and it compiled. $ sudo ./Install -d /opt/esru --gcc4 It is not possible to start by displaying the error when starting. Please teach the coping process. (error log) display :0.0 doesn't know font -*-lucida-medium-r-*-*-10-*-*-*-*-*-*-* ... 2nd choice font 6x12ucida-medium-r-*-*-10-*-*-*-*-*-*-* has not been found so quitting. It is my first experience though have compiled many times by me up to now. Regards, ----- Name : Koji Takemasa E-mail : koji_takemasa at mac.com URL : http://web.me.com/koji_takemasa/MobileMe/LEAD_Project.html _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at listsstrath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110705/4e4b1493/attachment.html From ptavares at mail.isec.pt Tue Jul 5 09:37:23 2011 From: ptavares at mail.isec.pt (Paulo Tavares) Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2011 09:37:23 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Surface indentation Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20110705093302.017fd3d8@pop.isec.pt> Hi all. Can anyone explain me what is the "indentation" of a surface? This is used when? The "help" is not clear enough to understand it. It is related with the windows recess? Best regards: Paulo Tavares From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Tue Jul 5 10:22:58 2011 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2011 10:22:58 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Surface indentation In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20110705093302.017fd3d8@pop.isec.pt> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20110705093302.017fd3d8@pop.isec.pt> Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA4130194A847742C@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> This is a feature which was used for a input to 2D conduction descriptions. Since this is a rarely used facility I suspect that this would tend not to be of interest or used by the majority of users. The 2D and 3D conduction tended to be documented by PhD students who knew the topic very well and had no particular need for help messages. They also had no concept that other people do not wake up in the morning thinking about 3D conduction and thus might actually benefit from some assistance ;-( For those that might want to venture into 2D and 3D conduction expect a steep learning curve. -Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Paulo Tavares [ptavares at mail.isec.pt] Sent: 05 July 2011 09:37 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Surface indentation Hi all. Can anyone explain me what is the "indentation" of a surface? This is used when? The "help" is not clear enough to understand it. It is related with the windows recess? Best regards: Paulo Tavares _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From g.sigalas at student.tue.nl Tue Jul 5 14:52:28 2011 From: g.sigalas at student.tue.nl (Sigalas, G.) Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2011 15:52:28 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Multiple special materials files Message-ID: <5943B726A91E9B428D2A613E5900508C93A90D1441@EXCHANGE13.campus.tue.nl> Dear Esp-r users, I would like to know if it is possible to have more than one special material files. I want to have one file for each zone of an esp-r model, instead for one file for the whole model. Thank you, Georgios Sigalas -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110705/39413e30/attachment.html From nick at esru.strath.ac.uk Tue Jul 5 16:17:21 2011 From: nick at esru.strath.ac.uk (Nicolas Kelly) Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2011 16:17:21 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Multiple special materials files In-Reply-To: <5943B726A91E9B428D2A613E5900508C93A90D1441@EXCHANGE13.campus.tue.nl> References: <5943B726A91E9B428D2A613E5900508C93A90D1441@EXCHANGE13.campus.tue.nl> Message-ID: <1C6300D291585C479F60053DBF140E8A01393C6A36A0@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> Dear Georgios, The answer to your question is no. Currently, the special materials file holds the information for all of the special materials in a model - hence the need for the positional data for each separate material to specify its location in terms of zone/surface/node. I don't really understand what benefit a materials file for each zone would give you. Perhaps if you explained why you want to use multiple files I may be able to help you. Regards, Nick Kelly --------------------------------------------------- Nick Kelly BEng (Hons) PgC MSc PhD FHEA Energy Systems Research Unit Mechanical Engineering University of Strathclyde e: nick at esru.strath.ac.uk t: +44(0)141 548 2854 f: +44(0)141 552 5105 --------------------------------------------------- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Sigalas, G. Sent: 05 July 2011 14:52 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Multiple special materials files Dear Esp-r users, I would like to know if it is possible to have more than one special material files. I want to have one file for each zone of an esp-r model, instead for one file for the whole model. Thank you, Georgios Sigalas -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110705/317b3ccf/attachment-0001.html From gianluca.brunetti at polimi.it Wed Jul 6 13:27:01 2011 From: gianluca.brunetti at polimi.it (Gian Luca Brunetti) Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2011 14:27:01 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] question about controls Message-ID: <4E145495.2020004@polimi.it> Dear ESP-r users, I am looking for advice about controls. I'm trying to figure out how to change the geometrical position of a zone at run time time. I guess it may be possible, but I can't figure out how. Thank you in advance. Regards Gian Luca Brunetti From perhaugaard at yahoo.dk Wed Jul 6 13:29:21 2011 From: perhaugaard at yahoo.dk (Per Haugaard) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2011 13:29:21 +0100 (BST) Subject: [esp-r] Broken link to Radiance Message-ID: <1309955361.3799.YahooMailNeo@web26604.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Dear list, I am working on Ubuntu 8.04 and ESP-r v. 11.9 Trying to establish the link to Radiance to do coupled simulation for an advanced fenestration system in an upcoming project. I have made coupled simulations on older computers of mine and I am well familiar with both ESP-r and Radiance but.... I have installed gendaylit and placed the files in their respective folders and made the paths as shows below: # Set path for ESP-r and Radiance RAYPATH= .:/lib:/opt/radiance/lib:/opt/radiance/bin PATH=$PATH:/opt/esru/bin:/opt/esru/esp-r/bin:/opt/radiance/lib:/opt/radiance/bin export PATH RAYPATH unset USERNAME To ensure the coupling of ESP-r and Radiance works as expected I made an ideal dimming with daylight coefficients in the casual gain control menu and hereafter created the radiance model. All data and scene parameters seems fine but when the "calculate daylight coeff" menu item does nothing and no errors are reported????? The number menu items is reported as too small when I run a test or Dry run in "Scene parameters option". Here the terminal reports "Kontor_Day_co.sky: No such file or directory" but the file does exist so??????? What could be the problem here. Any input is appreciated. (By the way both programs works well as stand alone programs :) ) /Per -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110706/bee31818/attachment.html From perhaugaard at yahoo.dk Wed Jul 6 13:29:21 2011 From: perhaugaard at yahoo.dk (Per Haugaard) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2011 13:29:21 +0100 (BST) Subject: [esp-r] Broken link to Radiance Message-ID: <1309955361.3799.YahooMailNeo@web26604.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Dear list, I am working on Ubuntu 8.04 and ESP-r v. 11.9 Trying to establish the link to Radiance to do coupled simulation for an advanced fenestration system in an upcoming project. I have made coupled simulations on older computers of mine and I am well familiar with both ESP-r and Radiance but.... I have installed gendaylit and placed the files in their respective folders and made the paths as shows below: # Set path for ESP-r and Radiance RAYPATH= .:/lib:/opt/radiance/lib:/opt/radiance/bin PATH=$PATH:/opt/esru/bin:/opt/esru/esp-r/bin:/opt/radiance/lib:/opt/radiance/bin export PATH RAYPATH unset USERNAME To ensure the coupling of ESP-r and Radiance works as expected I made an ideal dimming with daylight coefficients in the casual gain control menu and hereafter created the radiance model. All data and scene parameters seems fine but when the "calculate daylight coeff" menu item does nothing and no errors are reported????? The number menu items is reported as too small when I run a test or Dry run in "Scene parameters option". Here the terminal reports "Kontor_Day_co.sky: No such file or directory" but the file does exist so??????? What could be the problem here. Any input is appreciated. (By the way both programs works well as stand alone programs :) ) /Per -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110706/bee31818/attachment-0001.html From ingfimo at gmail.com Fri Jul 15 15:22:39 2011 From: ingfimo at gmail.com (Filippo Monari) Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2011 16:22:39 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] more version ESP-r Message-ID: Hi, I'd like to have a GUI version and a console version of ESP-r on my Ubuntu box because I want to try making some scripts. Can you tell me hoe can I reach this goal? Furthermore have anyone of you tried to use ESP-r with Python? There is out there some guide or example? Kind regards, Filippo -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110715/7ec72b51/attachment.html From glbrune at polimi.it Fri Jul 15 21:54:37 2011 From: glbrune at polimi.it (glbrune at polimi.it) Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2011 22:54:37 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: more version ESP-r In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20110715225437.10485ygxd9ej0ow0@webmail.polimi.it> Hi Filippo, you will find an example at the address esp-r/validation/benchmark_model/cfg/ANALYSE. It is in shell language. I think you'll have to you use -mode text to test the input by hand and -mode script to run the script. You should be able to interface esp-r with any programming language you want, provided that it has access to the shell. I don't know how you can access the shell in python. In perl you just input backquote to enter and backquote to exit. Best regards Gian Luca Brunetti Politecnico di Milano Dipartimento BEST via Bonardi 11 20133 Milano tel./fax 02 2399 5750 Def. Quota Filippo Monari : > Hi, > I'd like to have a GUI version and a console version of ESP-r on my Ubuntu > box because I want to try making some scripts. > Can you tell me hoe can I reach this goal? > Furthermore have anyone of you tried to use ESP-r with Python? There is out > there some guide or example? > Kind regards, > Filippo > ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. From achim.geissler at intergga.ch Sat Jul 16 16:39:47 2011 From: achim.geissler at intergga.ch (Achim Geissler) Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2011 17:39:47 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: more version ESP-r In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Filippo what do you plan to do? As written by Gian Luca, you have "two versions" of ESP-r, already. You can start every ESP-r component in text mode by invoking with $> prj -mode text In general, this is definitely possible from Python, also. However, then it may become tricky, because you need to send the started process many instructions to be able to do anything interesting. It is quite easy, though, to write scripts that do special tasks and call these scripts from other scripts. E.g. set a new control file by the following ("set_ctl.sh"): #!/bin/sh # # Script changes control file in .cfg. expects two # arguments: # 1. configuration file name (with relative path) # 2. control file name (with relative path) # CONFIG=$1 CONTRL=$2 echo "$CONFIG, control: $CTL " prj -file $CONFIG -mode text >> /dev/null < Hi, > I'd like to have a GUI version and a console version of ESP-r on my Ubuntu box because I want to try making some scripts. > Can you tell me hoe can I reach this goal? > Furthermore have anyone of you tried to use ESP-r with Python? There is out there some guide or example? > Kind regards, > Filippo > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r achim.geissler at intergga.ch -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110716/a97459fe/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Mon Jul 18 08:31:23 2011 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2011 08:31:23 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: more version ESP-r In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA4130194AA0A77FB@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> On Ubuntu - the graphic version (when run with -mode text) is exactly the same as a version compiled for pure-text. The need for a separate text and graphic version is an artefact from Native Windows - where the GUI version cannot be run with the -mode text option. -Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Filippo Monari [ingfimo at gmail.com] Sent: 15 July 2011 15:22 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] more version ESP-r Hi, I'd like to have a GUI version and a console version of ESP-r on my Ubuntu box because I want to try making some scripts. Can you tell me hoe can I reach this goal? Furthermore have anyone of you tried to use ESP-r with Python? There is out there some guide or example? Kind regards, Filippo From ingfimo at gmail.com Tue Jul 19 16:33:54 2011 From: ingfimo at gmail.com (Filippo Monari) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 17:33:54 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] esp-r text mode Message-ID: Hi, thanks for the previous answer. Then if I launch >>esp-r -mode text I get an error an the prj stop working if I launch >>prj -mode text everything seems work fine. So...in text mode I can only launch a single module each time? Thank you in advance. Regards, Filippo -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110719/653b30c1/attachment.html From achim.geissler at fhnw.ch Wed Jul 20 10:15:06 2011 From: achim.geissler at fhnw.ch (Geissler Achim) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2011 11:15:06 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: esp-r text mode In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0F4309A75967A944A1E3C19469796698D66574D8A0@MXAMU12.adm.ds.fhnw.ch> Dear Filippo yes, you can only start one module at a time ... however, in general you can run several modules in parallel (start from different consoles / shells) - but it is probably not a good idea to do this on one model. The modules will always run "in single mode" for a given model, because each task must usually end prior to the next task beginning. E.g. "edit a model", "simulate a model", "analyse results". By packing these steps into a script with loops, you can cover a lot of such tasks "automatically" in sequence, though. What is it that you are trying to do for which you need more than one module running at the same time, if I may ask? Regards Achim Von: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] Im Auftrag von Filippo Monari Gesendet: Dienstag, 19. Juli 2011 17:34 An: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Betreff: [esp-r] esp-r text mode Hi, thanks for the previous answer. Then if I launch >>esp-r -mode text I get an error an the prj stop working if I launch >>prj -mode text everything seems work fine. So...in text mode I can only launch a single module each time? Thank you in advance. Regards, Filippo -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110720/7a9bb906/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Wed Jul 20 11:49:32 2011 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2011 11:49:32 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: esp-r text mode In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA4130194AA0A7805@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> If you start the project manager (prj) with -mode text then any other ESP-r application that it starts up will also be invoked with -mode text. The -mode text command line option can be used with any of the ESP-r modules. To find out more about the command line options for an ESP-r module use module_name -help -Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Filippo Monari [ingfimo at gmail.com] Sent: 19 July 2011 16:33 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] esp-r text mode Hi, thanks for the previous answer. Then if I launch >>esp-r -mode text I get an error an the prj stop working if I launch >>prj -mode text everything seems work fine. So...in text mode I can only launch a single module each time? Thank you in advance. Regards, Filippo From hrsantos at fe.up.pt Wed Jul 20 12:23:17 2011 From: hrsantos at fe.up.pt (Hugo Santos) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2011 12:23:17 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Project files format. Message-ID: Hi all, I have an old ESP-r model that makes use of a previous file format (I believe it to be version 3.0 as stated in the .prj file) but that won't let me use some of the program's capacities (e.g. linear thermal bridges) or will crash when using others (e.g. CFC windows). I would like to convert the files to the most current format (version 4.0?) without having to rebuild the whole model again. I analyzed some of the text files and while some seem to be quite similar (e.g. .cfg) others are quite different (e.g. .geo files) and an ad-hoc manual conversion would probably result in not only a lot of work but also a very high probability of messing things up. So, I would like to know if someone knows of an easier way to do that conversion. I tried looking on the main Project ESP-r module but I couldn't find any option to resave the model while using a different format version. Thanks in advance for any help. Regards, Hugo Santos -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110720/8754b890/attachment.html From achim.geissler at fhnw.ch Wed Jul 20 15:08:40 2011 From: achim.geissler at fhnw.ch (Geissler Achim) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2011 16:08:40 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Project files format. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0F4309A75967A944A1E3C19469796698D66574D9F6@MXAMU12.adm.ds.fhnw.ch> Hi Hugo In Project Manager you find a menu "Model Context" (I think in "browse/edit/simulate"). In this menu there is an option to update the model files (somewhere towards the lower end). Regards Achim Von: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] Im Auftrag von Hugo Santos Gesendet: Mittwoch, 20. Juli 2011 13:23 An: ESP-r mailing list Betreff: [esp-r] Project files format. Hi all, I have an old ESP-r model that makes use of a previous file format (I believe it to be version 3.0 as stated in the .prj file) but that won't let me use some of the program's capacities (e.g. linear thermal bridges) or will crash when using others (e.g. CFC windows). I would like to convert the files to the most current format (version 4.0?) without having to rebuild the whole model again. I analyzed some of the text files and while some seem to be quite similar (e.g. .cfg) others are quite different (e.g. .geo files) and an ad-hoc manual conversion would probably result in not only a lot of work but also a very high probability of messing things up. So, I would like to know if someone knows of an easier way to do that conversion. I tried looking on the main Project ESP-r module but I couldn't find any option to resave the model while using a different format version. Thanks in advance for any help. Regards, Hugo Santos -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110720/a4e25147/attachment-0001.html From hrsantos at fe.up.pt Wed Jul 20 16:11:48 2011 From: hrsantos at fe.up.pt (Hugo Santos) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2011 16:11:48 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Project files format. In-Reply-To: <0F4309A75967A944A1E3C19469796698D66574D9F6@MXAMU12.adm.ds.fhnw.ch> References: <0F4309A75967A944A1E3C19469796698D66574D9F6@MXAMU12.adm.ds.fhnw.ch> Message-ID: Hi Achim, Thanks on helping me solve this problem. Although the solution was not exactly as you described, it made me go looking for the option in other places. It does exist but is inside the "Preferences" menu. Once again thanks. Regards, Hugo Santos On 20 July 2011 15:08, Geissler Achim wrote: > Hi Hugo**** > > ** ** > > In Project Manager you find a menu "Model Context" (I think in > "browse/edit/simulate"). In this menu there is an option to update the model > files (somewhere towards the lower end).**** > > ** ** > > Regards**** > > Achim**** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > *Von:* esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto: > esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] *Im Auftrag von *Hugo Santos > *Gesendet:* Mittwoch, 20. Juli 2011 13:23 > *An:* ESP-r mailing list > *Betreff:* [esp-r] Project files format.**** > > ** ** > > Hi all,**** > > ** ** > > I have an old ESP-r model that makes use of a previous file format (I > believe it to be version 3.0 as stated in the .prj file) but that won't let > me use some of the program's capacities (e.g. linear thermal bridges) or > will crash when using others (e.g. CFC windows).**** > > ** ** > > I would like to convert the files to the most current format (version 4.0?) > without having to rebuild the whole model again. I analyzed some of the text > files and while some seem to be quite similar (e.g. .cfg) others are quite > different (e.g. .geo files) and an ad-hoc manual conversion would probably > result in not only a lot of work but also a very high probability of messing > things up. So, I would like to know if someone knows of an easier way to do > that conversion. I tried looking on the main Project ESP-r module but I > couldn't find any option to resave the model while using a different format > version.**** > > ** ** > > Thanks in advance for any help. Regards,**** > > ** ** > > Hugo Santos**** > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110720/147eea05/attachment.html From hrsantos at gmail.com Wed Jul 20 17:43:07 2011 From: hrsantos at gmail.com (Hugo Santos) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2011 17:43:07 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] CFC control and U-value. Message-ID: Good afternoon to everyone, My question is mostly directed to Bartosz Lomanowski but maybe somebody else may have the answers. I've successfully implemented CFC windows in my models but there are two details that are bugging me: The first one is related to the complex fenestration control (by schedule) and more specifically the simplest on/off control. In it there are two setpoints to be defined for opening and closing the shading layer. I'm assuming that, when using a temperature sensor, the closing setpoint works in a direct way (shading is closed when temperature goes OVER the setpoint) and that the opening setpoint works in a inverse way (shading is opened when temperature goes BELOW the setpoint). If that is the case, then how may I implement a control that opens the shades at night when the internal temperature is over a specific setpoint (which seems contrary to the control logic)? The second issue is how can I be sure of the U-value for my glazing system? Is conduction dealt within the CFC model or should my MLC emulate the correct U-value for the glazing system? Looking at the .cfc files, it seems that conductivity for glass is not taken into account, only the gas layers have conductivity values attributed to them while glass layers seem to only have optical characteristics. If CFC takes glass conductivity into account, does that mean that to find the U-value I must recreate the glazing system defined in GSLEdit but in a program like Window 6 in order to find exactly what are the physical characteristics of the glazing system? Thanks in advance for any help. Regards, Hugo Santos -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110720/aa555384/attachment.html From achim.geissler at fhnw.ch Thu Jul 21 10:45:48 2011 From: achim.geissler at fhnw.ch (Geissler Achim) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2011 11:45:48 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: CFC control and U-value. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0F4309A75967A944A1E3C19469796698D66574DBEC@MXAMU12.adm.ds.fhnw.ch> Dear Hugo did you try defining different start times (more than one control period) for your "night time" issue? That should be possible. On your second issue, yes, the CFC deals with U-value calculation internally, but to check "what you have" the simplest approach is to use Window, as you write. The thickness of the glass and the width of the cavities are taken from the mlc construction, however, so these must be correct in terms of "they must be according to the build-up of the glass you are looking at". The U-value is not a constant with CFCs. The "QA report" contents is wrong for CFC constructions. This report uses the entry from the mlc construction. The U-value reported thus uses the gap resistance entered in the mlc. Regards Achim Von: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] Im Auftrag von Hugo Santos Gesendet: Mittwoch, 20. Juli 2011 18:43 An: ESP-r mailing list Betreff: [esp-r] CFC control and U-value. Good afternoon to everyone, My question is mostly directed to Bartosz Lomanowski but maybe somebody else may have the answers. I've successfully implemented CFC windows in my models but there are two details that are bugging me: The first one is related to the complex fenestration control (by schedule) and more specifically the simplest on/off control. In it there are two setpoints to be defined for opening and closing the shading layer. I'm assuming that, when using a temperature sensor, the closing setpoint works in a direct way (shading is closed when temperature goes OVER the setpoint) and that the opening setpoint works in a inverse way (shading is opened when temperature goes BELOW the setpoint). If that is the case, then how may I implement a control that opens the shades at night when the internal temperature is over a specific setpoint (which seems contrary to the control logic)? The second issue is how can I be sure of the U-value for my glazing system? Is conduction dealt within the CFC model or should my MLC emulate the correct U-value for the glazing system? Looking at the .cfc files, it seems that conductivity for glass is not taken into account, only the gas layers have conductivity values attributed to them while glass layers seem to only have optical characteristics. If CFC takes glass conductivity into account, does that mean that to find the U-value I must recreate the glazing system defined in GSLEdit but in a program like Window 6 in order to find exactly what are the physical characteristics of the glazing system? Thanks in advance for any help. Regards, Hugo Santos -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110721/1a1fd5e1/attachment.html From manzan at units.it Thu Jul 21 11:42:03 2011 From: manzan at units.it (Marco Manzan) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2011 12:42:03 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: esp-r Digest, Vol 60, Issue 6 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <201107211242.28976.manzan@units.it> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 17:33:54 +0200 > From: Filippo Monari > Subject: [esp-r] esp-r text mode > To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Hi, thanks for the previous answer. > Then if I launch > > >>esp-r -mode text > > I get an error an the prj stop working > if I launch > > >>prj -mode text > > everything seems work fine. > So...in text mode I can only launch a single module each time? > Thank you in advance. > Regards, > Filippo > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110719/653b30c1/att > achment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2011 11:49:32 +0100 > From: Jon Hand > Subject: [esp-r] Re: esp-r text mode > To: Filippo Monari , "esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk" > > Message-ID: > <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA4130194AA0A7805 at E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > If you start the project manager (prj) with -mode text then any other ESP-r > application that it starts up will also be invoked with -mode text. > > The -mode text command line option can be used with any of the ESP-r > modules. To find out more about the command line options for > an ESP-r module use > module_name -help > > -Jon Hand > ________________________________________ > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] > On Behalf Of Filippo Monari [ingfimo at gmail.com] Sent: 19 July 2011 16:33 > To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Subject: [esp-r] esp-r text mode > > Hi, thanks for the previous answer. > Then if I launch > > >>esp-r -mode text > > I get an error an the prj stop working > if I launch > > >>prj -mode text > > everything seems work fine. > So...in text mode I can only launch a single module each time? > Thank you in advance. > Regards, > Filippo > dear Filippo you obtain an error when trying to use esp-r in mode text since esp-r is a simple script that launches prj, run the command which esp-r and inspect the file or do directly vi `which esp-r` you can start as many modules as you wish in parallel with different scripts or in different shells. I do it normally running parallel simulation for genetic optimization problems, but each script consist in a serial sequence of modules eg. prj (to modify the geometry) -> ish (to take into account solar contributions ) -> bps (run the simulation) -> res (recover results) as you see it is a logical sequence since each module uses the results of previous module. Marco -- _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ |Marco Manzan Email: manzan at units.it | |Tel: (+39) 040 5583506 Fax : (+39) 040 572033 | |Dipartimento di Ingegneria Meccanica e Navale | |Universita' degli Studi di Trieste | |via A. Valerio 10, 34127 TRIESTE | |_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _| From achim.geissler at fhnw.ch Thu Jul 21 12:22:01 2011 From: achim.geissler at fhnw.ch (Geissler Achim) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2011 13:22:01 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: CFC control and U-value. In-Reply-To: References: <0F4309A75967A944A1E3C19469796698D66574DBEC@MXAMU12.adm.ds.fhnw.ch> Message-ID: <0F4309A75967A944A1E3C19469796698D66574DC44@MXAMU12.adm.ds.fhnw.ch> Dear Hugo Ah! Sorry, it was not clear to me from your first post that you are already using multiple periods. As to the inverse functionality, I assume that you would need to extend the code. Are you installed to change code and compile? The controller logic is to be found in /esrubld/complex_fenestration.F, approx. line 3734 ff. Focus on lines 3902 ff for the actuator and lines 3931 ff for the sensor. You could add a "iact1" type and use this for inverse action. You would need to define your night time periods with this actuator. You can likely extend the logic in this section of the code any way you wish ... as a "hack" to work for yourself, that would suffice. However, to make changes available to prj, you would also need to add code in other places. Best Achim --------------------------------------------------------------------- T +41 61 467 44 51 achim.geissler at fhnw.ch www.fhnw.ch/iebau --------------------------------------------------------------------- Von: Hugo Santos [mailto:hrsantos at gmail.com] Gesendet: Donnerstag, 21. Juli 2011 13:06 An: Geissler Achim; ESP-r mailing list Betreff: Re: [esp-r] CFC control and U-value. Dear Achim, Thanks for the help on the U-values. As for the CFC control issue, I already established three periods per day to account for the day and night periods. The problem is upon defining the control law. I wanted it to be: during the day, turn the shading ON if internal temperature is over 23?C and OFF if below 22?C; but during the night period I wanted it to turn OFF if internal temperature is over 23?C and ON if below 22?C. That is, the inverse! I can't quite understand how the setpoints for the on/off law are executed or how this could be implemented with them. There is, for instance, no way of saying if the CFC setpoints work in a direct or inverse way as in the multi-sensor law for network flow control. Thanks again. Cheers, Hugo Santos On 21 July 2011 10:45, Geissler Achim > wrote: Dear Hugo did you try defining different start times (more than one control period) for your "night time" issue? That should be possible. On your second issue, yes, the CFC deals with U-value calculation internally, but to check "what you have" the simplest approach is to use Window, as you write. The thickness of the glass and the width of the cavities are taken from the mlc construction, however, so these must be correct in terms of "they must be according to the build-up of the glass you are looking at". The U-value is not a constant with CFCs. The "QA report" contents is wrong for CFC constructions. This report uses the entry from the mlc construction. The U-value reported thus uses the gap resistance entered in the mlc. Regards Achim Von: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] Im Auftrag von Hugo Santos Gesendet: Mittwoch, 20. Juli 2011 18:43 An: ESP-r mailing list Betreff: [esp-r] CFC control and U-value. Good afternoon to everyone, My question is mostly directed to Bartosz Lomanowski but maybe somebody else may have the answers. I've successfully implemented CFC windows in my models but there are two details that are bugging me: The first one is related to the complex fenestration control (by schedule) and more specifically the simplest on/off control. In it there are two setpoints to be defined for opening and closing the shading layer. I'm assuming that, when using a temperature sensor, the closing setpoint works in a direct way (shading is closed when temperature goes OVER the setpoint) and that the opening setpoint works in a inverse way (shading is opened when temperature goes BELOW the setpoint). If that is the case, then how may I implement a control that opens the shades at night when the internal temperature is over a specific setpoint (which seems contrary to the control logic)? The second issue is how can I be sure of the U-value for my glazing system? Is conduction dealt within the CFC model or should my MLC emulate the correct U-value for the glazing system? Looking at the .cfc files, it seems that conductivity for glass is not taken into account, only the gas layers have conductivity values attributed to them while glass layers seem to only have optical characteristics. If CFC takes glass conductivity into account, does that mean that to find the U-value I must recreate the glazing system defined in GSLEdit but in a program like Window 6 in order to find exactly what are the physical characteristics of the glazing system? Thanks in advance for any help. Regards, Hugo Santos -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110721/944d0f0b/attachment-0001.html From hrsantos at gmail.com Thu Jul 21 12:05:58 2011 From: hrsantos at gmail.com (Hugo Santos) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2011 12:05:58 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: CFC control and U-value. In-Reply-To: <0F4309A75967A944A1E3C19469796698D66574DBEC@MXAMU12.adm.ds.fhnw.ch> References: <0F4309A75967A944A1E3C19469796698D66574DBEC@MXAMU12.adm.ds.fhnw.ch> Message-ID: Dear Achim, Thanks for the help on the U-values. As for the CFC control issue, I already established three periods per day to account for the day and night periods. The problem is upon defining the control law. I wanted it to be: during the day, turn the shading ON if internal temperature is over 23?C and OFF if below 22?C; but during the night period I wanted it to turn OFF if internal temperature is over 23?C and ON if below 22?C. That is, the inverse! I can't quite understand how the setpoints for the on/off law are executed or how this could be implemented with them. There is, for instance, no way of saying if the CFC setpoints work in a direct or inverse way as in the multi-sensor law for network flow control. Thanks again. Cheers, Hugo Santos On 21 July 2011 10:45, Geissler Achim wrote: > Dear Hugo**** > > ** ** > > did you try defining different start times (more than one control period) > for your "night time" issue? That should be possible.**** > > ** ** > > On your second issue, yes, the CFC deals with U-value calculation > internally, but to check "what you have" the simplest approach is to use > Window, as you write. The thickness of the glass and the width of the > cavities are taken from the mlc construction, however, so these must be > correct in terms of "they must be according to the build-up of the glass you > are looking at". The U-value is not a constant with CFCs.**** > > ** ** > > The "QA report" contents is wrong for CFC constructions. This report uses > the entry from the mlc construction. The U-value reported thus uses the gap > resistance entered in the mlc.**** > > ** ** > > Regards**** > > Achim**** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > *Von:* esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto: > esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] *Im Auftrag von *Hugo Santos > *Gesendet:* Mittwoch, 20. Juli 2011 18:43 > *An:* ESP-r mailing list > *Betreff:* [esp-r] CFC control and U-value.**** > > ** ** > > Good afternoon to everyone,**** > > ** ** > > My question is mostly directed to Bartosz Lomanowski but maybe somebody > else may have the answers.**** > > ** ** > > I've successfully implemented CFC windows in my models but there are two > details that are bugging me:**** > > ** ** > > The first one is related to the complex fenestration control (by schedule) > and more specifically the simplest on/off control. In it there are two > setpoints to be defined for opening and closing the shading layer. I'm > assuming that, when using a temperature sensor, the closing setpoint works > in a direct way (shading is closed when temperature goes OVER the setpoint) > and that the opening setpoint works in a inverse way (shading is opened when > temperature goes BELOW the setpoint). If that is the case, then how may I > implement a control that opens the shades at night when the internal > temperature is over a specific setpoint (which seems contrary to the control > logic)?**** > > ** ** > > The second issue is how can I be sure of the U-value for my glazing system? > Is conduction dealt within the CFC model or should my MLC emulate the > correct U-value for the glazing system? Looking at the .cfc files, it seems > that conductivity for glass is not taken into account, only the gas layers > have conductivity values attributed to them while glass layers seem to only > have optical characteristics. If CFC takes glass conductivity into account, > does that mean that to find the U-value I must recreate the glazing system > defined in GSLEdit but in a program like Window 6 in order to find exactly > what are the physical characteristics of the glazing system?**** > > ** ** > > Thanks in advance for any help. Regards,**** > > ** ** > > Hugo Santos**** > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110721/1fdd39fc/attachment.html From hrsantos at gmail.com Fri Jul 22 10:18:03 2011 From: hrsantos at gmail.com (Hugo Santos) Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2011 10:18:03 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: CFC control and U-value. In-Reply-To: <0F4309A75967A944A1E3C19469796698D66574DC44@MXAMU12.adm.ds.fhnw.ch> References: <0F4309A75967A944A1E3C19469796698D66574DBEC@MXAMU12.adm.ds.fhnw.ch> <0F4309A75967A944A1E3C19469796698D66574DC44@MXAMU12.adm.ds.fhnw.ch> Message-ID: Thanks Achim. I'm not really comfortable with writing or modifying code so I'll just forget about what I was trying to do. I may try to define it roughly in terms of opening/closing schedules. Thanks again. Best regards, Hugo Santos On 21 July 2011 12:22, Geissler Achim wrote: > Dear Hugo**** > > ** ** > > Ah! Sorry, it was not clear to me from your first post that you are already > using multiple periods. As to the inverse functionality, I assume that you > would need to extend the code. Are you installed to change code and compile? > The controller logic is to be found in /esrubld/complex_fenestration.F, > approx. line 3734 ff. Focus on lines 3902 ff for the actuator and lines 3931 > ff for the sensor.**** > > ** ** > > You could add a "iact1" type and use this for inverse action. You would > need to define your night time periods with this actuator.**** > > ** ** > > You can likely extend the logic in this section of the code any way you > wish ? as a "hack" to work for yourself, that would suffice. However, to > make changes available to prj, you would also need to add code in other > places.**** > > ** ** > > Best**** > > Achim**** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > T +41 61 467 44 51 > > achim.geissler at fhnw.ch > www.fhnw.ch/iebau > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > **** > > ** ** > > *Von:* Hugo Santos [mailto:hrsantos at gmail.com] > *Gesendet:* Donnerstag, 21. Juli 2011 13:06 > *An:* Geissler Achim; ESP-r mailing list > *B**etreff:* Re: [esp-r] CFC control and U-value.**** > > ** ** > > Dear Achim,**** > > ** ** > > Thanks for the help on the U-values.**** > > ** ** > > As for the CFC control issue, I already established three periods per day > to account for the day and night periods. The problem is upon defining the > control law. I wanted it to be: during the day, turn the shading ON if > internal temperature is over 23?C and OFF if below 22?C; but during the > night period I wanted it to turn OFF if internal temperature is over 23?C > and ON if below 22?C. That is, the inverse! I can't quite understand how the > setpoints for the on/off law are executed or how this could be implemented > with them. There is, for instance, no way of saying if the CFC setpoints > work in a direct or inverse way as in the multi-sensor law for network flow > control.**** > > Thanks again. Cheers,**** > > ** ** > > Hugo Santos**** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > On 21 July 2011 10:45, Geissler Achim wrote:**** > > Dear Hugo**** > > **** > > did you try defining different start times (more than one control period) > for your "night time" issue? That should be possible.**** > > **** > > On your second issue, yes, the CFC deals with U-value calculation > internally, but to check "what you have" the simplest approach is to use > Window, as you write. The thickness of the glass and the width of the > cavities are taken from the mlc construction, however, so these must be > correct in terms of "they must be according to the build-up of the glass you > are looking at". The U-value is not a constant with CFCs.**** > > **** > > The "QA report" contents is wrong for CFC constructions. This report uses > the entry from the mlc construction. The U-value reported thus uses the gap > resistance entered in the mlc.**** > > **** > > Regards**** > > Achim**** > > **** > > **** > > *Von:* esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto: > esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] *Im Auftrag von *Hugo Santos > *Gesendet:* Mittwoch, 20. Juli 2011 18:43 > *An:* ESP-r mailing list > *Betreff:* [esp-r] CFC control and U-value.**** > > **** > > Good afternoon to everyone,**** > > **** > > My question is mostly directed to Bartosz Lomanowski but maybe somebody > else may have the answers.**** > > **** > > I've successfully implemented CFC windows in my models but there are two > details that are bugging me:**** > > **** > > The first one is related to the complex fenestration control (by schedule) > and more specifically the simplest on/off control. In it there are two > setpoints to be defined for opening and closing the shading layer. I'm > assuming that, when using a temperature sensor, the closing setpoint works > in a direct way (shading is closed when temperature goes OVER the setpoint) > and that the opening setpoint works in a inverse way (shading is opened when > temperature goes BELOW the setpoint). If that is the case, then how may I > implement a control that opens the shades at night when the internal > temperature is over a specific setpoint (which seems contrary to the control > logic)?**** > > **** > > The second issue is how can I be sure of the U-value for my glazing system? > Is conduction dealt within the CFC model or should my MLC emulate the > correct U-value for the glazing system? Looking at the .cfc files, it seems > that conductivity for glass is not taken into account, only the gas layers > have conductivity values attributed to them while glass layers seem to only > have optical characteristics. If CFC takes glass conductivity into account, > does that mean that to find the U-value I must recreate the glazing system > defined in GSLEdit but in a program like Window 6 in order to find exactly > what are the physical characteristics of the glazing system?**** > > **** > > Thanks in advance for any help. Regards,**** > > **** > > Hugo Santos**** > > ** ** > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110722/58278b21/attachment.html From glbrune at polimi.it Thu Jul 21 17:40:56 2011 From: glbrune at polimi.it (glbrune at polimi.it) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2011 18:40:56 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] question about the ish module Message-ID: <20110721184056.141317yoif0ac6n4@webmail.polimi.it> Dear ESP-r users, it is likely that my question has already been posted on the list. Sorry for the repetition. The question is the following. I see that the present version of the Ish module does not take into account the radiation reflected by solar obstructions into a zone (first reflection). Are you aware of any tricks to get (at least partially) around this limitation? And are you aware of any further improvements of Ish coming with the next versions of ESP-r? Thank you in advance Gian Luca Brunetti Politecnico di Milano Dipartimento BEST via Bonardi 11 20133 Milano tel./fax 02 2399 5750 ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. From sr880710 at dal.ca Thu Jul 21 20:15:27 2011 From: sr880710 at dal.ca (Sara Nikoofard) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2011 16:15:27 -0300 Subject: [esp-r] FW: Tester issue Message-ID: <003701cc47da$8ce37020$a6aa5060$@ca> Hi, Since I am not able to send this message to core_develope I sent it to esp-r list. Thanks, Sara From: Sara Nikoofard [mailto:sr880710 at dal.ca] Sent: July 21, 2011 4:10 PM To: 'core_developers at espr.list.cvsdude.com' Subject: Tester issue Hi All, I am trying to run tester for two different revision of my branch but I got this problem. "ls: cannot access /home/snikoofard/esp-r_src/Sara_Nikoofard/tester/scripts/results_output/plt_ solar_collector/IPH/*SL4_reference.data: No such file or directory" And the same thing for test revision. I run tester.pl with these arguments: ./tester.pl --databases /home/snikoofard/esru/esp-r --path /home/snikoofard/esp-r_src/Sara_Nikoofard/tester/test_suite/plt_solart_colle ctor/ --save_results /home/snikoofard/esru/esp-r/bin/bps /home/snikoofard/esruDHW/esp-r/bin/bps Since I run esp-r from my home directory I gave the path to databases. "esru" is the reference revision and "esruDHW" is the test one. I have attached the bps_test_report.txt as well. It can't produce data file which I could do it before I don't know what changed. Apparently something is wrong with level 4 simulation but can't figure it out. Best Regards, -- Sara Nikoofard Room C254A, Department of Mechanical Engineering, Dalhousie University, Halifax, NS Phone: (902)494-3165 email: s.nikoofard at dal.ca -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110721/654c23f6/attachment-0001.html -------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: bps_test_report.txt Url: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110721/654c23f6/attachment-0001.txt From scotty300582 at msn.com Fri Jul 22 22:21:41 2011 From: scotty300582 at msn.com (Filippo) Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2011 23:21:41 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] graphical interface problem Message-ID: Hi, I'm working with Ubuntu 10.04 and I have an nvidia quadro FX1800. Running PRJ (ESP-r command) in X11 or in GTK I have some problem with climate and simulation module as graph windows flickering and graph disappear when I try to resize the windows. Furthermore I can't use the capture option. Is the graphical interface a little instable or is there anythings I can do for make ESP-r working better? Thanks, Filippo From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Mon Jul 25 02:10:42 2011 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2011 02:10:42 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: graphical interface problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA4130194AA0A780E@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> Graph windows 'flickering' might be an issue isolated for your computer. 10.04 Ubuntu on several machines we have tested does not display this problem. Sometimes the advent of strange behaviour is related to old library files and can be corrected if a make clean is issued followed by a full fresh compile of ESP-r. The in-built capture option button - calls an external application to do the actual capture work. The name of the external application is found in the .esprc file located in your home folder or in the esprc file located with the ESP-r distribution e.g. /usr/esru/esp-r/esprc look for the *gprn line. Typically this uses an application called 'import' which is part of the ImageMagic tool set. We have noticed some computers the external application is not invoked correctly or only saves a small section of the screen. The suggested approach for image capture on Linux is to directly invoke a screen capture tool from the command line - this gives you much more control than the in-built ESP-r facility. -Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Filippo [scotty300582 at msn.com] Sent: 22 July 2011 22:21 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] graphical interface problem Hi, I'm working with Ubuntu 10.04 and I have an nvidia quadro FX1800. Running PRJ (ESP-r command) in X11 or in GTK I have some problem with climate and simulation module as graph windows flickering and graph disappear when I try to resize the windows. Furthermore I can't use the capture option. Is the graphical interface a little instable or is there anythings I can do for make ESP-r working better? Thanks, Filippo _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Mon Jul 25 02:22:13 2011 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2011 02:22:13 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: graphical interface problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA4130194AA0A7811@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> Further comment - the 'monitoring' graph in the simulator is generated as the simulation is running and the information used to draw / update the monitoring graph is not preserved. Thus if you resize the simulator the lines of the graph are not re-generated (because there is no information). The 'monitoring' graph is also rather small on most Native Windows computers even if the graphic feedback area is large. This might be an issue with the GTK coding (the X11 version of the monitoring graph seems to draw better). Will add this to the list of issues to check. Regards, Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Filippo [scotty300582 at msn.com] Sent: 22 July 2011 22:21 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] graphical interface problem Hi, I'm working with Ubuntu 10.04 and I have an nvidia quadro FX1800. Running PRJ (ESP-r command) in X11 or in GTK I have some problem with climate and simulation module as graph windows flickering and graph disappear when I try to resize the windows. Furthermore I can't use the capture option. Is the graphical interface a little instable or is there anythings I can do for make ESP-r working better? Thanks, Filippo _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From koji_takemasa at me.com Wed Jul 27 08:37:25 2011 From: koji_takemasa at me.com (=?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCSXBALxsoQiAbJEI5JzwjGyhC?=) Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 07:37:25 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [esp-r] Mac OSX Lion Message-ID: <079514c1-f47e-6b70-bd11-bc5e6bc37b69@me.com> Hi I downloaded gfortran for Lion from HPC. ?And ?I have installed it.? (HPC:http://hpc.sourceforge.net/) I compiled esp-r(X11) with MacOSX(Lion). However, I corrected the library of Mac. The procedure is shown below.? $ sudo ln -s /usr/X11R6/lib /usr/X11R6/lib64 The compilation is completed by above.? ----- Name : Koji Takemasa E-mail : koji_takemasa at mac.com URL : http://web.me.com/koji_takemasa/MobileMe/LEAD_Project.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110727/dc948c5f/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Sun Jul 31 09:36:12 2011 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2011 09:36:12 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: question about the ish module In-Reply-To: <20110721184056.141317yoif0ac6n4@webmail.polimi.it> References: <20110721184056.141317yoif0ac6n4@webmail.polimi.it> Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA4130194AA0A7834@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> Sorry not to answer this sooner.... The shading and insolation module (ish) only deals with reducing the amount of solar radiation arriving at a facade and being transmitted into a zone. It does not have a concept of reflections from obstructions or other zone surfaces. I think this might be the first time there has been a request for treating reflections. If there were more requests for this and someone to volunteered to champion the topic then there might be progress. -Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of glbrune at polimi.it [glbrune at polimi.it] Sent: 21 July 2011 17:40 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Cc: gianluca.brunetti at polimi.it Subject: [esp-r] question about the ish module Dear ESP-r users, it is likely that my question has already been posted on the list. Sorry for the repetition. The question is the following. I see that the present version of the Ish module does not take into account the radiation reflected by solar obstructions into a zone (first reflection). Are you aware of any tricks to get (at least partially) around this limitation? And are you aware of any further improvements of Ish coming with the next versions of ESP-r? Thank you in advance Gian Luca Brunetti Politecnico di Milano Dipartimento BEST via Bonardi 11 20133 Milano tel./fax 02 2399 5750 ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From gianluca.brunetti at gmail.com Tue Aug 2 02:58:09 2011 From: gianluca.brunetti at gmail.com (=?utf-8?B?R2lhbiBMdWNhIEJydW5ldHRp?=) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2011 02:58:09 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: =?utf-8?q?question_about_the_Ish_module?= Message-ID: <4e374bb7.cccce30a.338c.fffff99d@mx.google.com> The first part on a message is in attachment in text format -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: vNote_20110802145.vnt Type: application/x-h3g-drm-mmv Size: 699 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110802/b617e8c1/attachment.bin From achim.geissler at fhnw.ch Tue Aug 2 10:02:12 2011 From: achim.geissler at fhnw.ch (Geissler Achim) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2011 11:02:12 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: question about the Ish module In-Reply-To: <4e374c87.02cde30a.2ceb.fffff5ca@mx.google.com> References: <4e374c87.02cde30a.2ceb.fffff5ca@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <0F4309A75967A944A1E3C19469796698D6659733D6@MXAMU12.adm.ds.fhnw.ch> Dear Gian Luca, Jon, others I agree that it would be very good to extend the properties of exterior obstructions with reflectance. We suggested this some years ago in context with the increasing use of quite reflective "Louvre" types of shading elements (brushed steel or aluminum, light grey or white carbon wings and similar) on commercial high rise buildings. Also, reflective obstructions would surely enhance the accuracy of calculated gains (and daylighting performance) for northerly elevations facing reflective opposite buildings. Recently, obstructions were extended for transparency. Therefore, the next logical step would be to add reflectivity. To my knowledge, none of the comparable simulation programs takes this into account, either. Best Achim -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] Im Auftrag von Gian Luca Brunetti Gesendet: Dienstag, 2. August 2011 04:02 An: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk; jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Cc: gianluca.brunetti at polimi.it Betreff: [esp-r] Re: question about the Ish module I think that the main limitations of the program would be the following: - it would underestimate the increase of insolations values in the case that even the gain of the most insolated surface turns out to be increased by the reflections due to obstructions, since that value is kept fixed to scale all the others - nothing would be done to take into account the irradiation increase due to the reflections caused by the obstructions due to the sky diffuse component - the computations would just regard interior surfaces and not exterior ones From eeliopoulou at tee.gr Tue Aug 2 11:12:17 2011 From: eeliopoulou at tee.gr (=?iso-8859-7?B?xfT19+nhIMfr6e/w7/3r7/U=?=) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2011 13:12:17 +0300 Subject: [esp-r] please remove me from the mailing list Message-ID: <6DBDE6CC9EE64E7E8F639929B98B9F57@efh> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110802/86682c2b/attachment.html From aizaz.a.samuel at strath.ac.uk Tue Aug 2 15:52:06 2011 From: aizaz.a.samuel at strath.ac.uk (lap02175) Date: Tue, 02 Aug 2011 15:52:06 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Error occured In-Reply-To: <12cfef28-79e9-6fe8-f528-d8e44b23a3f6@me.com> References: <12cfef28-79e9-6fe8-f528-d8e44b23a3f6@me.com> Message-ID: <4E380F16.80401@strath.ac.uk> Try changing lucida to helvetica around line 570-578 in lib/esru_x.c (two instances) and also increase the string length from 39(corresponding to lucida) to 42 in the string copy function which should look like (strncpy(font_4,"-*-helvetica-medium-r-*-*-10-*-*-*-*-*-*-*",42);) and recompiling (remember to make clean to remove object files before you Install) This worked for me on cygwin. -Aizaz On 05/07/2011 02:18, ?? ?? wrote: > Hi > > I compiled ESP-r by using the X11 library. > ESP-r compiled by using the GTK library doesn't cause the error. > > Regard, > > ----- > Name : Koji Takemasa > E-mail : koji_takemasa at mac.com > URL : http://web.me.com/koji_takemasa/MobileMe/LEAD_Project.html > >> >> This is probably the GTK interface version of ESP-r? >> >> It is looking for a font to use. It does not find the main font or >> the 2nd choice font. Because of this >> it does not have sufficient resources to work. >> >> The lucidia fonts tend to be standard on most Linux/Unix/OSX >> machines. This machine does not >> seem to have them. Using the package manager for the operating system >> check if there are >> additional font sets that can be installed for the X11 environent - >> one of them might have lucida. >> >> Perhaps someone else might have further details about which font set >> to look for? >> >> Regards Jon Hand >> ________________________________________ >> From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk >> >> [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk >> ] On Behalf Of ?? ?? >> [koji_takemasa at me.com ] >> Sent: 03 July 2011 10:50 >> To: ESP-r mailing list >> Subject: [esp-r] Error occured >> >> Hi >> I downloaded the source code of esp-r11.11. And, as follows was done >> and it compiled. >> >> $ sudo ./Install -d /opt/esru --gcc4 >> >> It is not possible to start by displaying the error when starting. >> Please teach the coping process. >> >> (error log) >> display :0.0 doesn't know font >> -*-lucida-medium-r-*-*-10-*-*-*-*-*-*-* ... >> 2nd choice font 6x12ucida-medium-r-*-*-10-*-*-*-*-*-*-* has not been >> found so quitting. >> >> It is my first experience though have compiled many times by me up to >> now. >> >> Regards, >> >> ----- >> Name : Koji Takemasa >> E-mail : koji_takemasa at mac.com >> URL : http://web.me.com/koji_takemasa/MobileMe/LEAD_Project.html >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> esp-r mailing list >> esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk >> *MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from >> "lists.strathac.uk" claiming to be* >> http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r >> -- --- Dr Aizaz A Samuel Department of Mechanical Engineering University of Strathclyde 324 James Weir Building 75 Montrose Street Glasgow, UK G1 1XJ e: samuel at esru.strath.ac.uk t: +44 141 548 5765 f: +44 141 552 5105 w: www.strath.ac.uk/esru -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110802/5caaeafa/attachment.html From glbrune at polimi.it Thu Aug 4 08:45:20 2011 From: glbrune at polimi.it (glbrune at polimi.it) Date: Thu, 04 Aug 2011 09:45:20 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: question about the Ish module In-Reply-To: <20110803090944.73504rfunxjx9vcw@webmail.polimi.it> References: <20110803090944.73504rfunxjx9vcw@webmail.polimi.it> Message-ID: <20110804094520.27371yl26hx7g9a8@webmail.polimi.it> Dear Achim, Jon, others, I think that the rightest way to take reflectivity into account in the insolation calculations would be to treat reflextions with raytracing principles in the code of ish, but presently I don't feel capable of doing this, at least in a reasonable amount of time, and I don't know if I ever will. The kind of use of the existing coupling with Radiance I am thinking of is computationally redundant, but (i hope) it should also be reasonably simple to implement and wouldn't touch the ESP-r nor the Radiance existing code. Both fortunately and unfortunately I will be able to work on it just part-part time in August. I will work on it mainly from September. This functionality would be very useful to me in the next months. Best regards Gian Luca > Def. Quota Geissler Achim : > >> Dear Gian Luca, Jon, others >> >> I agree that it would be very good to extend the properties of >> exterior obstructions with reflectance. We suggested this some >> years ago in context with the increasing use of quite reflective >> "Louvre" types of shading elements (brushed steel or aluminum, >> light grey or white carbon wings and similar) on commercial high >> rise buildings. >> >> Also, reflective obstructions would surely enhance the accuracy of >> calculated gains (and daylighting performance) for northerly >> elevations facing reflective opposite buildings. >> >> Recently, obstructions were extended for transparency. Therefore, >> the next logical step would be to add reflectivity. To my >> knowledge, none of the comparable simulation programs takes this >> into account, either. >> >> Best >> Achim >> >> >> >> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- >> Von: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk >> [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] Im Auftrag von Gian Luca >> Brunetti >> Gesendet: Dienstag, 2. August 2011 04:02 >> An: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk; jon at esru.strath.ac.uk >> Cc: gianluca.brunetti at polimi.it >> Betreff: [esp-r] Re: question about the Ish module >> >> I think that the main limitations of the program would be the following: >> - it would underestimate the increase of insolations values in the >> case that even the gain of the most insolated surface turns out to >> be increased by the reflections due to obstructions, since that >> value is kept fixed to scale all the others >> - nothing would be done to take into account the irradiation >> increase due to the reflections caused by the obstructions due to >> the sky diffuse component >> - the computations would just regard interior surfaces and not exterior ones >> >> > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. > ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. From manzan.marco at gmail.com Sun Aug 7 23:36:38 2011 From: manzan.marco at gmail.com (Marco Manzan) Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2011 00:36:38 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: question about the Ish module (glbrune@polimi.it) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <201108080036.38451.manzan@units.it> In data gioved? 04 agosto 2011 18:30:02, esp-r-request at lists.strath.ac.uk ha scritto: > Send esp-r mailing list submissions to > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > esp-r-request at lists.strath.ac.uk > > You can reach the person managing the list at > esp-r-owner at lists.strath.ac.uk > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of esp-r digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: question about the Ish module (glbrune at polimi.it) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 04 Aug 2011 09:45:20 +0200 > From: glbrune at polimi.it > Subject: [esp-r] Re: question about the Ish module > To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Cc: gianluca.brunetti at polimi.it > Message-ID: <20110804094520.27371yl26hx7g9a8 at webmail.polimi.it> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes"; > format="flowed" > > Dear Achim, Jon, others, > I think that the rightest way to take reflectivity into account in the > insolation calculations would be to treat reflextions with raytracing > principles in the code of ish, but presently I don't feel capable of > doing this, at least in a reasonable amount of time, and I don't know > if I ever will. The kind of use of the existing coupling with Radiance > I am thinking of is computationally redundant, but (i hope) it should > also be reasonably simple to implement and wouldn't touch the ESP-r > nor the Radiance existing code. > > Both fortunately and unfortunately I will be able to work on it just > part-part time in August. I will work on it mainly from September. > > This functionality would be very useful to me in the next months. > > Best regards > > Gian Luca > > > Def. Quota Geissler Achim : > >> Dear Gian Luca, Jon, others > >> > >> I agree that it would be very good to extend the properties of > >> exterior obstructions with reflectance. We suggested this some > >> years ago in context with the increasing use of quite reflective > >> "Louvre" types of shading elements (brushed steel or aluminum, > >> light grey or white carbon wings and similar) on commercial high > >> rise buildings. > >> > >> Also, reflective obstructions would surely enhance the accuracy of > >> calculated gains (and daylighting performance) for northerly > >> elevations facing reflective opposite buildings. > >> > >> Recently, obstructions were extended for transparency. Therefore, > >> the next logical step would be to add reflectivity. To my > >> knowledge, none of the comparable simulation programs takes this > >> into account, either. > >> > >> Best > >> Achim > >> > >> > >> > >> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > >> Von: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk > >> [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] Im Auftrag von Gian Luca > >> Brunetti > >> Gesendet: Dienstag, 2. August 2011 04:02 > >> An: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk; jon at esru.strath.ac.uk > >> Cc: gianluca.brunetti at polimi.it > >> Betreff: [esp-r] Re: question about the Ish module > >> > >> I think that the main limitations of the program would be the following: > >> - it would underestimate the increase of insolations values in the > >> case that even the gain of the most insolated surface turns out to > >> be increased by the reflections due to obstructions, since that > >> value is kept fixed to scale all the others > >> - nothing would be done to take into account the irradiation > >> increase due to the reflections caused by the obstructions due to > >> the sky diffuse component > >> - the computations would just regard interior surfaces and not exterior > >> ones > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > > End of esp-r Digest, Vol 61, Issue 2 > ************************************ hi all this kind of problem has been already been addressed in the following paper http://www.ibpsa.org/proceedings/BS2003/BS03_0571_576.pdf Milan Janak used Radiance to obtain pre-calculated ittadiance levels for shading devices. This could be a start. The problem is that Radiance is very computational intensive and the timings for a illuminance run are orders higher than the ones for energy calculation, may be of the order of hours against some minutes, it depends on the size of the problem and the parameters with wich Radiance is invoked. Nevertheless in some circumstances the additional information that can be retived could be very important. bye Marco -- _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ __ _ |Marco Manzan Email: manzan at units.it | |Tel: (+39) 040 5583506 Fax : (+39) 040 572033 | |Dipartimento di Ingegneria Meccannica e Navale | |Universita' degli Studi di Trieste | |via Valerio 10, 34127 TRIESTE | |_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ __ _| From Lukas.Swan at dal.ca Mon Aug 8 13:22:41 2011 From: Lukas.Swan at dal.ca (Lukas Swan (Dal)) Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2011 09:22:41 -0300 Subject: [esp-r] PhD and Post-Doc Energy and GHG modeling Openings at Dalhousie University Message-ID: <010701cc55c5$deb45420$9c1cfc60$@Dal.Ca> Please see the attached flyer describing openings for PhD Students and Post-Docs at Dalhousie University, Canada. These exciting funded opportunities utilize ESP-r and are related to the modeling of advanced technologies and their impact on energy consumption and GHG emissions of buildings and communities. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110808/fad56755/attachment-0001.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: PDF&PhDSNEBRN.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 61820 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110808/fad56755/attachment-0001.pdf From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Mon Aug 29 01:04:46 2011 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 01:04:46 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Shall we (the ESP-r community) meet or have some workshops at IBPSA-11? Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA41301959A6C27A2@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> IBPSA-11 is coming up in Sydney in November and now is a good time to consider getting the ESP-r community of users and developers together for a sharing of ideas, a sharing of some food/drink and/or some workshops. In the past we have managed to have a lunch or dinner together, sometimes within the conference, sometimes in a fun spot someone located. We have also had a series of ESP-r community meetings where we find out who is doing what and gather comments from folk (sometimes leading to an evolution of the software). I have given introductory or focused workshops at almost every IBPSA conference. I would like to see if there might be enough interest in ESP-r activities to approach the conference organizers with a request for some venues. An initial step might be to find out: a) who in the community will be at IBPSA-11 b) what kinds of activities are of interest c) get an impression of the needs of ESP-r users and developers in the southern hemisphere d) is there something that would help to kick-start ESP-r communities in Australia/NZ/Pacific rim? I am happy to collect up information and re-transmitt. Please email me with your comments and suggestions in the next few days. Regards, Jon Hand From Alex.Ferguson at NRCan-RNCan.gc.ca Mon Aug 29 21:02:38 2011 From: Alex.Ferguson at NRCan-RNCan.gc.ca (Ferguson, Alex) Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 16:02:38 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] eSim 2012: Call for abstracts Message-ID: This call for abstracts is also posted online at http://www.esim.ca/abstract eSim 2012 - Call For Abstracts Next year, design professionals, academic researchers and students will convene in Halifax, Nova Scotia, to discuss advances, challenges and applications in building performance simulation. On May 2 and 3, 2012, Dalhousie University will host the 7th biennial IBPSA-Canada conference at the historic Pier-21 Museum on the Halifax Waterfront. eSim 2012 will also coincide with the first annual meeting of the recently announced NSERC Smart Net-Zero Energy Buildings Strategic Research Network (SNEBRN). The themes of the conference, as well as pre- and post-conference workshops, will relate closely to the network research priorities. We invite you to submit original research on the development and application of building performance simulation as it relates to building energy use, environmental impacts and occupant well-being. Only original papers related to the conference topics and not published elsewhere will be accepted. All accepted papers accompanied by a conference registration will be published in the conference proceedings and presented at the conference in oral sessions. In the event that submissions exceed the conference presentation quota, poster sessions will be held to accommodate additional papers. Each registration entitles the author to submit a single paper/poster. One additional paper/poster per registration is allowed with a special fee. Conference Themes * Recent developments for modelling the physical processes relevant to building performance (thermal, air flow, moisture, lighting) * Methods and algorithms for modelling conventional and innovative building systems (including envelope, lighting, controls, HVAC, renewable energy and distributed generation systems) * Methods for modelling and characterizing whole building performance, including interactions between systems within the building, and interactions between the building and its surrounding neighbourhood and community * Methods for modelling and characterizing occupant comfort and wellbeing (including thermal comfort, acoustic performance, air-quality, ventilation and lighting) * Building simulation software development and quality control approaches * Use of building simulation tools in building design, optimization, code compliance and incentive programs * Use of building simulation tools in stock- and sector-modelling studies at neighbourhood, community, municipal and national scales * Moving simulation into practice-case studies of innovative simulation approaches * Validation of building simulation software * User interface and software interoperability issues * Architectural and engineering data visualization and animation Abstract Requirements The deadline for abstracts is Monday, September 26, 2011. The abstract must be in plain text and be a maximum of 500 words. eSim 2012 is a bilingual conference and abstracts, papers and presentations will be accepted in either English or French. Please submit abstracts to the eSim web site at: http://www.esim.ca/abstract At least two reviewers will be assigned by the Scientific Committee to examine each abstract in a double-blind peer-review process. Corresponding authors will be informed of the abstract review results by October 17, 2011. Conference Chairs: Dr. Lukas Swan, Dalhousie University ( Lukas.Swan at Dal.Ca ) Dr. Richard Kroeker, Dalhousie University ( Richard.Kroeker at Dal.Ca ) Chair of the Scientific Committee: Alex Ferguson, Natural Resources Canada ( Alex.Ferguson at NRCan.gc.ca ) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110829/e5c414e7/attachment-0001.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 65696 bytes Desc: word-cloud-small+halifax.jpg Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110829/e5c414e7/attachment-0001.jpe From david.garcias at gmail.com Mon Sep 5 13:45:45 2011 From: david.garcias at gmail.com (David Garcia) Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2011 14:45:45 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] HVACSIM ... Message-ID: Hi all ESP-r user's I have read concerning an ESP-r post processing module called HVACSIM. I can found its routine in: http://espr.trac.cvsdude.com/esp-r/browser/branches/Joe_Clarke/src/cetc/hvacsim.F?rev=1003 Unfortunately I don't know how to use this post-processing module, Someone here has previous experience in use this module? Thanks in advance, -- David GARCIA SANCHEZ ------------------------------------------------------------ D?partement Syst?mes ?nerg?tiques Environnement Ecole des Mines de Nantes 4, Rue Alfred Kastler 44300 Nantes France ------------------------------------------------------------ Email: david.garcia-sanchez at emn.fr Tel: +33 (0) 2 51 85 82 14 Mobile: +33 (0) 6 78 15 08 09 Fax: +33 (0) 2 51 85 82 99 ------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110905/14d8af09/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Thu Sep 8 08:44:39 2011 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 08:44:39 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: HVACSIM ... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA4130195C17478AC@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> David, The post-processing is used by Natural Resources Canada to provide information for some tools used in Canada. There is no interface to the facility. However, it might be possible to discuss with some staff at NRCan and find a way to generate the necessary directives to make use of the facility. And the 'tester' folder of the source distribution likely includes a number of examples of models/projects which make use of HVACSIM. Regards, Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of David Garcia [david.garcias at gmail.com] Sent: 05 September 2011 13:45 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] HVACSIM ... Hi all ESP-r user's I have read concerning an ESP-r post processing module called HVACSIM. I can found its routine in: http://espr.trac.cvsdude.com/esp-r/browser/branches/Joe_Clarke/src/cetc/hvacsim.F?rev=1003 Unfortunately I don't know how to use this post-processing module, Someone here has previous experience in use this module? Thanks in advance, -- David GARCIA SANCHEZ ------------------------------------------------------------ D?partement Syst?mes ?nerg?tiques Environnement Ecole des Mines de Nantes 4, Rue Alfred Kastler 44300 Nantes France ------------------------------------------------------------ Email: david.garcia-sanchez at emn.fr Tel: +33 (0) 2 51 85 82 14 Mobile: +33 (0) 6 78 15 08 09 Fax: +33 (0) 2 51 85 82 99 ------------------------------------------------------------ From glbrune at polimi.it Mon Sep 12 03:12:12 2011 From: glbrune at polimi.it (glbrune at polimi.it) Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 04:12:12 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] gendaylit Message-ID: <20110912041212.10022pk5tpfzemww@webmail.polimi.it> Dear list, a question on the Radiance setup. I know that the topic has already been mailed in the past, but I didn't find definitive answers. In my present installation of ESP-r+Radiance, Radiance isn't able to save the .rif file and the .sky files. About the .sky files, I suppose that the problem may be related to Gendaylit. And about the .rif files, I hope that the problem may be related to the lack of .sky files. I can see no errors in the way I compiled gendaylit and placed its contents in the Radiance (bin and lib) folders, and the same is for the declaration of the RAYPATH environment variable in the bash.bashrc file of the shell in Linux; but evidently there must be some errors in the way I have set up the programs. It is two or three years that I don't use Radiance, but I don't remember to have had this kind of problem in the past. I only hope that the issue is not due to the fact that my ESP-r system is compiled from the source, since I always have troubles in running the pre-compiled version in my Linux Mint (Helena) system. Suggestions are very welcomed. Thank you in advance. Best regards Gian Luca Brunetti ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. From achim.geissler at fhnw.ch Mon Sep 12 07:19:09 2011 From: achim.geissler at fhnw.ch (Geissler Achim) Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 08:19:09 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: gendaylit In-Reply-To: <20110912041212.10022pk5tpfzemww@webmail.polimi.it> References: <20110912041212.10022pk5tpfzemww@webmail.polimi.it> Message-ID: <0F4309A75967A944A1E3C19469796698D666629962@MXAMU12.adm.ds.fhnw.ch> Hi Gian Luca where (relative to the model folder) are you starting ESP-r (prj)? In my experience, problems with the radiance coupling could be reduced when firing up ESP-r (prj) in the /cfg - folder of the project. Also, what is your entry on "path for radiance"? Possibly set it to ../rad in the cfg file. Best Achim -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] Im Auftrag von glbrune at polimi.it Gesendet: Montag, 12. September 2011 04:12 An: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Cc: gianluca.brunetti at polimi.it Betreff: [esp-r] gendaylit Dear list, a question on the Radiance setup. I know that the topic has already been mailed in the past, but I didn't find definitive answers. In my present installation of ESP-r+Radiance, Radiance isn't able to save the .rif file and the .sky files. About the .sky files, I suppose that the problem may be related to Gendaylit. And about the .rif files, I hope that the problem may be related to the lack of .sky files. I can see no errors in the way I compiled gendaylit and placed its contents in the Radiance (bin and lib) folders, and the same is for the declaration of the RAYPATH environment variable in the bash.bashrc file of the shell in Linux; but evidently there must be some errors in the way I have set up the programs. It is two or three years that I don't use Radiance, but I don't remember to have had this kind of problem in the past. I only hope that the issue is not due to the fact that my ESP-r system is compiled from the source, since I always have troubles in running the pre-compiled version in my Linux Mint (Helena) system. Suggestions are very welcomed. Thank you in advance. Best regards Gian Luca Brunetti ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From gianluca.brunetti at polimi.it Mon Sep 12 12:43:51 2011 From: gianluca.brunetti at polimi.it (Gian Luca Brunetti) Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 13:43:51 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] OK - Re: AW: gendaylit In-Reply-To: <0F4309A75967A944A1E3C19469796698D666629962@MXAMU12.adm.ds.fhnw.ch> References: <20110912041212.10022pk5tpfzemww@webmail.polimi.it> <0F4309A75967A944A1E3C19469796698D666629962@MXAMU12.adm.ds.fhnw.ch> Message-ID: <4E6DF077.8020105@polimi.it> Thank you very very much both Jon and Achim, I have launched a project from its cfg folder and all has indeed turn out to be already OK. Best regards Gian Luca From gianluca.brunetti at polimi.it Tue Sep 13 15:56:42 2011 From: gianluca.brunetti at polimi.it (Gian Luca Brunetti) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2011 16:56:42 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] again about Radiance Message-ID: <4E6F6F2A.2040804@polimi.it> Dear list, I am writing again about the ESP-r Radiance interaction. I August while away from my computer I optimistically posted a couple of messages here in which I reasoned about the possibility to modify the insolation values in the .shda files taking into account the illuminance values produced by Radiance at each time step. (This by using a ratio of the illuminance levels calculated with solar obstruction as black bodies and the illuminance levels calculated with their true reflectances.) Now inspecting the interface to Radiance in ESP-r, which I only previously used for daylight factors calculations, I have seen that in the interactive set-up is a menu entry for the ESP-r - Radiance coupling and another for the calculation of daylight coefficient. I also saw the 1998 article by Clarke and Janak "Simulating the Thermal Effects of Daylight-controlled Lighting" (Building Performance, 1998). About the coupling mode, I think I have understood that it comes close to my needs to take into account the effect of reflections by external obstructions; but also that this operation only obviously regards just illuminance levels, without effect on solar gains. And about the daylight coefficient calculations, I think I have understood that each set of them belongs to a specific position in time. It doesn't help my understanding that I am not able to run the two operations, nor the one, nor the other. (Incidenlty, I also have not been able to run the operations to obtain glare evaluations, which I presently am not longing for.) I imagine that there must be some Radiance files to write or modify to place sensors at surfaces or else, but I have no clue about where to start; and I also most fundamentally suspect that I am not on the right track at a more general level. That said, running the two above described operations has just indirectly to do with present aim, and might be not essential for me. My priority is to find a way to extract grids of illuminance levels for each opaque internal surface from the rendering operations, to obtain the mean illuminance levels for each of them. (Morevoer, relative differences of illuminance from surface to surface would be enough for my needs - I woun't necessarily need absolute values; and relative values might even be inferred from to-be-rendered colors.) But the Radiance rendering options I have seen produce graphical results, not textual. About all this, I poke in the source of the Radiance's file "dayfact", which is there presented as being able to calculate daylight factors and illuminance levels, but I haven't found no clue about the calculation or set up needed to request illuminance levels. Does anybody using Radiance here have a suggestion about how to obtain the mean illuminance level for a certain surface in a certain position in time? I fear that if I can't perform this most basic operation I'll have to throw in the towel. Thank you in advance. Best regards Gian Luca Brunetti Politecnico di Milano Dipartimento BEST via Bonardi 11 20133 Milano tel./fax 02 2399 5750 From achim.geissler at intergga.ch Wed Sep 14 08:11:00 2011 From: achim.geissler at intergga.ch (Achim.geissler) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 09:11:00 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: again about Radiance Message-ID: <5b999ba2fb7e0c6e5bf5b80643baed96@192.33.202.45> Dear Gian Luca I have added some comments, below. Best Achim --------- Original-Nachricht -------- Von: Gian Luca Brunetti An: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk , gianluca.brunetti at polimi.it Betreff: [esp-r] again about Radiance Datum: 13/09/11 16:58 > Dear list, > I am writing again about the ESP-r Radiance interaction. > > I August while away from my computer I optimistically posted a couple of > messages here in which I reasoned about the possibility to modify the > insolation values in the .shda files taking into account the illuminance > values produced by Radiance at each time step. (This by using a ratio of > the illuminance levels calculated with solar obstruction as black bodies > and the illuminance levels calculated with their true reflectances.) > > Now inspecting the interface to Radiance in ESP-r, which I only > previously used for daylight factors calculations, I have seen that in > the interactive set-up is a menu entry for the ESP-r - Radiance coupling > and another for the calculation of daylight coefficient. > > I also saw the 1998 article by Clarke and Janak "Simulating the Thermal > Effects of Daylight-controlled Lighting" (Building Performance, 1998). > > About the coupling mode, I think I have understood that it comes close > to my needs to take into account the effect of reflections by external > obstructions; but also that this operation only obviously regards just > illuminance levels, without effect on solar gains. I would agree, here. If you give your obstructions a material, this material is used by the generated Radiance model. However, as you write, only daylight performance is calculated by the coupling. > And about the daylight coefficient calculations, I think I have > understood that each set of them belongs to a specific position in time. The radiance coupling is generally on a (building) simulation time step basis. > It doesn't help my understanding that I am not able to run the two > operations, nor the one, nor the other. (Incidenlty, I also have not > been able to run the operations to obtain glare evaluations, which I > presently am not longing for.) Which operation does not work? The setup of the coupling is done via "casual gains control". Have you set this up? It is control type 4. > I imagine that there must be some Radiance files to write or modify to > place sensors at surfaces or else, but I have no clue about where to > start; and I also most fundamentally suspect that I am not on the right > track at a more general level. Yes, in the .cgc file you enter the coordinates of the sensors used. The Radiance results are compared against a set point (desired lux level) and then "the rest" is added as internal gain due to artificial lighting. > That said, running the two above described operations has just > indirectly to do with present aim, and might be not essential for me. My > priority is to find a way to extract grids of illuminance levels for > each opaque internal surface from the rendering operations, to obtain > the mean illuminance levels for each of them. (Morevoer, relative > differences of illuminance from surface to surface would be enough for > my needs - I woun't necessarily need absolute values; and relative > values might even be inferred from to-be-rendered colors.) But the > Radiance rendering options I have seen produce graphical results, not > textual. If you do not really need the energy level, but the illuminance levels, only, maybe "daysim" is the better tool? This also uses Radiance but is geared toward whole year daylighting analysis and gives illuminance levels for a grid which you can define. > About all this, I poke in the source of the Radiance's file "dayfact", > which is there presented as being able to calculate daylight factors and > illuminance levels, but I haven't found no clue about the calculation or > set up needed to request illuminance levels. > > Does anybody using Radiance here have a suggestion about how to obtain > the mean illuminance level for a certain surface in a certain position > in time? Another possible approach is via more basic Radiance tools. There is a very good tutorial on "whole year simulations", however, I do not have it to hand right now (search the net for Axel Jacobs tutorial and you should find quite a lot information). > I fear that if I can't perform this most basic operation I'll have to > throw in the towel. > > Thank you in advance. > > Best regards > > Gian Luca Brunetti > > Politecnico di Milano > Dipartimento BEST > via Bonardi 11 > 20133 Milano > tel./fax 02 2399 5750 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > > From gianluca.brunetti at polimi.it Wed Sep 14 10:44:12 2011 From: gianluca.brunetti at polimi.it (Gian Luca Brunetti) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 11:44:12 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: again about Radiance In-Reply-To: <5b999ba2fb7e0c6e5bf5b80643baed96@192.33.202.45> References: <5b999ba2fb7e0c6e5bf5b80643baed96@192.33.202.45> Message-ID: <4E70776C.60509@polimi.it> Dear Achim, thank you very much for the indications. I indeed didn't set up the coupling in casual gain controls and this explains why I didn't succeed in activating the coupling. I still have many things to try before understanding how to to make the coupling work, but the .cgc files seem very clear. About daysim, it looks like a very interesting tool, but I think that I'll stick to barebones Radiance in order to keep the procedure as lean as I can. The tutorials by Axel jackobs are great. I have found those and a wealth of information at the address http://www.bozzograo.net/radiancewiki. Best regards Gian Luca Politecnico di Milano Dipartimento BEST via Bonardi 11 20133 Milano tel./fax 02 2399 5750 From manzan at units.it Wed Sep 14 10:57:18 2011 From: manzan at units.it (Marco Manzan) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 11:57:18 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: again about Radiance (Gian Luca Brunetti) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <201109141157.18583.manzan@units.it> Alle marted? 13 settembre 2011, esp-r-request at lists.strath.ac.uk ha scritto: > Send esp-r mailing list submissions to > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > esp-r-request at lists.strath.ac.uk > > You can reach the person managing the list at > esp-r-owner at lists.strath.ac.uk > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of esp-r digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. again about Radiance (Gian Luca Brunetti) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2011 16:56:42 +0200 > From: Gian Luca Brunetti > Subject: [esp-r] again about Radiance > To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk, gianluca.brunetti at polimi.it > Message-ID: <4E6F6F2A.2040804 at polimi.it> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Dear list, > I am writing again about the ESP-r Radiance interaction. > > I August while away from my computer I optimistically posted a couple of > messages here in which I reasoned about the possibility to modify the > insolation values in the .shda files taking into account the illuminance > values produced by Radiance at each time step. (This by using a ratio of > the illuminance levels calculated with solar obstruction as black bodies > and the illuminance levels calculated with their true reflectances.) > > Now inspecting the interface to Radiance in ESP-r, which I only > previously used for daylight factors calculations, I have seen that in > the interactive set-up is a menu entry for the ESP-r - Radiance coupling > and another for the calculation of daylight coefficient. > > I also saw the 1998 article by Clarke and Janak "Simulating the Thermal > Effects of Daylight-controlled Lighting" (Building Performance, 1998). > > About the coupling mode, I think I have understood that it comes close > to my needs to take into account the effect of reflections by external > obstructions; but also that this operation only obviously regards just > illuminance levels, without effect on solar gains. > > And about the daylight coefficient calculations, I think I have > understood that each set of them belongs to a specific position in time. > > It doesn't help my understanding that I am not able to run the two > operations, nor the one, nor the other. (Incidenlty, I also have not > been able to run the operations to obtain glare evaluations, which I > presently am not longing for.) > > I imagine that there must be some Radiance files to write or modify to > place sensors at surfaces or else, but I have no clue about where to > start; and I also most fundamentally suspect that I am not on the right > track at a more general level. > > That said, running the two above described operations has just > indirectly to do with present aim, and might be not essential for me. My > priority is to find a way to extract grids of illuminance levels for > each opaque internal surface from the rendering operations, to obtain > the mean illuminance levels for each of them. (Morevoer, relative > differences of illuminance from surface to surface would be enough for > my needs - I woun't necessarily need absolute values; and relative > values might even be inferred from to-be-rendered colors.) But the > Radiance rendering options I have seen produce graphical results, not > textual. > > About all this, I poke in the source of the Radiance's file "dayfact", > which is there presented as being able to calculate daylight factors and > illuminance levels, but I haven't found no clue about the calculation or > set up needed to request illuminance levels. > > Does anybody using Radiance here have a suggestion about how to obtain > the mean illuminance level for a certain surface in a certain position > in time? > > I fear that if I can't perform this most basic operation I'll have to > throw in the towel. > > Thank you in advance. > > Best regards > > Gian Luca Brunetti > > Politecnico di Milano > Dipartimento BEST > via Bonardi 11 > 20133 Milano > tel./fax 02 2399 5750 > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > > End of esp-r Digest, Vol 62, Issue 4 > ************************************ dear Gian Luca I dare say it is not clear what you are looking for, if you are interested in taking into account obstructions reflection for computing solar gains the answer is that it is a very interesting work and you can refer to the following link http://www.ibpsa.org/proceedings/BS2003/BS03_0571_576.pdf but it seems that your questions are more RADIANCE related, please visit this site http://www.jaloxa.eu/resources/radiance/documentation/index.shtml the Radiance Tutorial and Radiance Cookbook will be helpful to you and will instruct you in how to obtain numerical values. as far as esp-r, the full Radiance coupling and daylight coefficients are used as a control system for the gains produced by artificial lighting, the setup is not straightforward. Marco -- _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ |Marco Manzan Email: manzan at units.it | |Tel: (+39) 040 5583506 Fax : (+39) 040 572033 | |Dipartimento di Ingegneria Meccanica e Navale | |Universita' degli Studi di Trieste | |via A. Valerio 10, 34127 TRIESTE | |_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _| From gianluca.brunetti at polimi.it Wed Sep 14 12:36:25 2011 From: gianluca.brunetti at polimi.it (Gian Luca Brunetti) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 13:36:25 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: again about Radiance (Gian Luca Brunetti) In-Reply-To: <201109141157.18583.manzan@units.it> References: <201109141157.18583.manzan@units.it> Message-ID: <4E7091B9.4010202@polimi.it> Dear Marco, thank you for the link to the paper by Janak. I knew it: my intention stems from it. I had presented my thoughts about this intention in two posts sent to the list in attachemt in August from my phone. Considering that the mailing list archive strips the attachmnents from the messages and just for completeness, I'll re-past them at the end of the message. But also, I now realize that text was full of annoying charactes that make it appear like a blurb (if it isn't). Moreover, since then I have focused and simplified my view a bit. So I'll try here to re-formulate the idea shortly. The aim is to take into account the effects of reflections caused by external solar obstructions in solar gain calculations. And the assumption is that, as sustained in the Janak's paper, irradiation levels may be obtained from illuminance levels. I'd like to try the effect of a program (and thus I'd like to try write it) performing the following operations, by receving as input a .shd file name and a .cfg file name. a) Computing through Radiance the mean illuminance for each interior surface for each hour and each month that have been calculated in the .shd file for insolation, assuming that obstructions are black bodies (this by temporarily appying a fictitious material to them); b) Computing the same thing, but for obstructions with their true material assigned. c) Modifying the original insolation values in the .shd file (which were indeed calculated assuming osbstructions as black bodies) accordig to the ratio between the values obtained in step a) and the values obtained in step b) for each surface (probabily through the filter of other corrections factors and threshold values). That is very likely much easier to be said than done, but I am very curious about it. The difficulty to me obviously resides mostly in the Radiance part. Best regards Gian Luca Politecnico di Milano Dipartimento BEST via Bonardi 11 20133 Milano tel./fax 02 2399 5750 _____________________________ 2 August message 1 Thank you for the reply.=0AFor technical reasons, my message will be= in two parts.=0AI was already considering trying to write a utility= program to resize insolation values with some proportionality to the= illuminances obtained through Radiance. I saw in a paper by Janak= (2003) that an acceptable correlation has been verified between= predictable irradiance and predictable illuminance.=0AThe program= would do the following things.=0Aa) computing the mean illuminance= for each interior surface for each time step through Radiance,= obtained by considering obstructions as black bodies and taking into= account just the direct sky component\;=0Ab) same as above, but= using the intended absorptances of obstructions\;=0Ac) increase the= insolation fractions obtained through ish by keeping fixed the= highest one and increasing the others with some proportionality to= the difference between a) and b), with some threshold. I think that the main limitations of the program would be the= following:=0A- it would underestimate the increase of insolations= values in the case that even the gain of the most insolated surface= turns out to be increased by the reflections due to obstructions,= since that value is kept fixed to scale all the others\;=0A- nothing= would be done to take into account the irradiation increase due to= the reflections caused by the obstructions due to the sky diffuse= component\;=0A- the computations would just regard interior surfaces= and not exterior ones.=0ABest regards=0Agian luca brunetti END:VNOTE ___________________________ 2 August message 2 I think that the main limitations of the program would be the= following:=0A- it would underestimate the increase of insolations= values in the case that even the gain of the most insolated surface= turns out to be increased by the reflections due to obstructions,= since that value is kept fixed to scale all the others\;=0A- nothing= would be done to take into account the irradiation increase due to= the reflections caused by the obstructions due to the sky diffuse= component\;=0A- the computations would just regard interior surfaces= and not exterior ones.=0ABest regards=0Agian luca brunetti END:VNOTE From gianluca.brunetti at polimi.it Thu Sep 15 09:56:31 2011 From: gianluca.brunetti at polimi.it (Gian Luca Brunetti) Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2011 10:56:31 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] question for ESP-r+Radiance users Message-ID: <4E71BDBF.8000703@polimi.it> Dear list, I am trying to measure the radiance at a point in a scene with Radiance with the command "rtrace", but I always get values "0" if the given point is inside a zone. I get values > 0 only if the point is outside the building. This happens with every model I have tried. For each of them, an .oct file had been created and tested with an interior rendering. Here I take as an example the case "bld_simple.cfg" in the Esp-r's simple exemplars. Now I enter the Esp-r Radiance Desktop and let as usual Esp-r do the work for me with Radiance, obtaining a scene prepared for an interior rendering, and thus also a working .oct file. Then I issue in bash the following command to test the radiance of a sensor positioned at coordinates 8, 5, 1.5 (thus, inside the room) looking upwards (0 0 1): echo 8 5 1.5 0 0 1 | rtrace reception_Intern.oct and I obtain the following result: 0.000000e+00 0.000000e+00 0.000000e+00 But if I now place the point outside the room, say at position 10, 5, 1.5, I obtain: 9.416492e+00 9.416492e+00 1.147933e+01 Does anybody have an idea of why is this? Thank you in advance. Best regards Gian Luca Brunetti Politecnico di Milano Dipartimento BEST via Bonardi 11 20133 Milano tel./fax 02 2399 5750 From gianluca.brunetti at polimi.it Thu Sep 15 13:35:27 2011 From: gianluca.brunetti at polimi.it (Gian Luca Brunetti) Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2011 14:35:27 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] found Message-ID: <4E71F10F.1090204@polimi.it> Indoors, Radiance's rtrace needed an -ab option (maximum number of ray's diffuse bounces). Best regards Gian Luca Brunetti Politecnico di Milano Dipartimento BEST via Bonardi 11 20133 Milano tel./fax 02 2399 5750 From gianluca.brunetti at polimi.it Fri Sep 16 14:17:39 2011 From: gianluca.brunetti at polimi.it (Gian Luca Brunetti) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2011 15:17:39 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Bug in e2rform.F Message-ID: <4E734C73.6090805@polimi.it> Dear list, I'm writing in order to signal a small but nasty one-spot bug in the file "e2rform.F" (folder "esrue2r") in the source. At lines 1030 and 1041 the command: "!genrbox" has to be substited with "!genbox" in order to let the Esp-r model's obstructions be rebuilt in the Radiance scenes. Sorry if I have posted here this message, where it is out of place, but I didn't find a developers' mailing list email and I hadn't the time today to read the established procedures in the Developer's guide. Thank in advance you for your attention. Best regards Gian Luca Brunetti Politecnico di Milano Dipartimento BEST via Bonardi 11 20133 Milano tel./fax 02 2399 5750 From achim.geissler at intergga.ch Fri Sep 16 14:52:06 2011 From: achim.geissler at intergga.ch (Achim Geissler) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2011 15:52:06 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Bug in e2rform.F In-Reply-To: <4E734C73.6090805@polimi.it> References: <4E734C73.6090805@polimi.it> Message-ID: <7BAA296A-3A9F-46A7-9238-D4CFA5DA596A@intergga.ch> Dear Gian Luca well spotted. However, there is a simple workaround in any unix environment by adding a symlink from "genbox" to "genrbox" (which usually does not exist on the system). Probably simply copying "genbox" to "genrbox" would also work (both in the radiance bin directory). I seem to remember that "genrbox" is the newer / more flexible version. However, this is not included in older (?) Radiance packages. Achim On Sep 16, 2011, at 3:17 PM, Gian Luca Brunetti wrote: > Dear list, > I'm writing in order to signal a small but nasty one-spot bug in the > file "e2rform.F" (folder "esrue2r") in the source. > > At lines 1030 and 1041 the command: > > "!genrbox" > > has to be substited with > > "!genbox" > > in order to let the Esp-r model's obstructions be rebuilt in the > Radiance scenes. > > Sorry if I have posted here this message, where it is out of place, but > I didn't find a developers' mailing list email and I hadn't the time > today to read the established procedures in the Developer's guide. > > Thank in advance you for your attention. > > Best regards > > Gian Luca Brunetti > > Politecnico di Milano > Dipartimento BEST > via Bonardi 11 > 20133 Milano > tel./fax 02 2399 5750 > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > achim.geissler at intergga.ch From gianluca.brunetti at polimi.it Fri Sep 16 14:59:02 2011 From: gianluca.brunetti at polimi.it (Gian Luca Brunetti) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2011 15:59:02 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Bug in e2rform.F In-Reply-To: <7BAA296A-3A9F-46A7-9238-D4CFA5DA596A@intergga.ch> References: <4E734C73.6090805@polimi.it> <7BAA296A-3A9F-46A7-9238-D4CFA5DA596A@intergga.ch> Message-ID: <4E735626.2050902@polimi.it> Dear Achim, thank you very much for the suggestion. It is a very good idea and I am going to apply it. I think that my Radiance version is the most recent stable one. Best regards Gian Luca Achim Geissler wrote: > Dear Gian Luca > > well spotted. However, there is a simple workaround in any unix environment by adding a symlink from "genbox" to "genrbox" (which usually does not exist on the system). Probably simply copying "genbox" to "genrbox" would also work (both in the radiance bin directory). I seem to remember that "genrbox" is the newer / more flexible version. However, this is not included in older (?) Radiance packages. > > Achim > > > On Sep 16, 2011, at 3:17 PM, Gian Luca Brunetti wrote: > > >> Dear list, >> I'm writing in order to signal a small but nasty one-spot bug in the >> file "e2rform.F" (folder "esrue2r") in the source. >> >> At lines 1030 and 1041 the command: >> >> "!genrbox" >> >> has to be substited with >> >> "!genbox" >> >> in order to let the Esp-r model's obstructions be rebuilt in the >> Radiance scenes. >> >> Sorry if I have posted here this message, where it is out of place, but >> I didn't find a developers' mailing list email and I hadn't the time >> today to read the established procedures in the Developer's guide. >> >> Thank in advance you for your attention. >> >> Best regards >> >> Gian Luca Brunetti >> >> Politecnico di Milano >> Dipartimento BEST >> via Bonardi 11 >> 20133 Milano >> tel./fax 02 2399 5750 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> esp-r mailing list >> esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk >> http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r >> >> > > achim.geissler at intergga.ch > > > > > > From glbrune at polimi.it Sat Sep 17 11:09:43 2011 From: glbrune at polimi.it (glbrune at polimi.it) Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2011 12:09:43 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: question for ESP-r+Radiance users In-Reply-To: <4E744895.7050409@gmx.net> References: <4E71BDBF.8000703@polimi.it> <4E744895.7050409@gmx.net> Message-ID: <20110917120943.201158r86q1ju348@webmail.polimi.it> Def. Quota "Lars O. Grobe" : > Hi Gian Luca! Hi Lars! > Are you sure that you want to measure the radiance at a point, not > the irradiance? I aim to the illuminance, but if I am able to get the radiance then I will be able to get the irradiance, luminance and illuminance. I just didn't want to get stuck in the fundamental operation. > > A rough idea, yes ;-) Type "rtrace -defaults", and you get the > default settings of the rtrace command, which will be appiled unless > you specify others on the command line. > > One of these settings is "-ab 0". This means, that only direct light > from light sources will be considered. No light reflected from other > surfaces, and also no light from glow-objects. So, if you have a > sunny sky, and your sensor is located outside, it will receive light > from the sun with -ab 0, but not from the remaining hemisphere which > is typically defined as glow. And if it inside, it will receive any > light unless it can directly see the sun. > > I would recommend Axel Jacob's Radiance tutorial as a start: > > http://www.jaloxa.eu/resources/radiance/documentation/index.shtml It is very interesting indeed, as Axel Jacob's Cookbook. > > There are also some strategies described how to optimize > calculations avoiding too high -ab values, which slow down the > process (such as mkillum). I am presently using "-ab 0.2" as a setting. > And there has been a lot of development during the last year > especially in fenestration, That's good news. Anyway, I'd like to keep the procedures as lightweight as I can. > a look at the last workshop's slides at radiance-online.org may be useful. > Definitely. > Cheers, Lars. > > Thank you again. Cheers, Luca ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. From grobe at gmx.net Sat Sep 17 08:13:25 2011 From: grobe at gmx.net (Lars O. Grobe) Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2011 09:13:25 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: question for ESP-r+Radiance users In-Reply-To: <4E71BDBF.8000703@polimi.it> References: <4E71BDBF.8000703@polimi.it> Message-ID: <4E744895.7050409@gmx.net> Hi Gian Luca! > I am trying to measure the radiance at a point in a scene with Radiance Are you sure that you want to measure the radiance at a point, not the irradiance? > with the command "rtrace", but I always get values "0" if the given > point is inside a zone. I get values> 0 only if the point is outside > the building. (...) > Then I issue in bash the following command to test the radiance of a > sensor positioned at coordinates 8, 5, 1.5 (thus, inside the room) > looking upwards (0 0 1): > > echo 8 5 1.5 0 0 1 | rtrace reception_Intern.oct > > and I obtain the following result: > > 0.000000e+00 0.000000e+00 0.000000e+00 > > But if I now place the point outside the room, say at position 10, 5, > 1.5, I obtain: > > 9.416492e+00 9.416492e+00 1.147933e+01 > > Does anybody have an idea of why is this? A rough idea, yes ;-) Type "rtrace -defaults", and you get the default settings of the rtrace command, which will be appiled unless you specify others on the command line. One of these settings is "-ab 0". This means, that only direct light from light sources will be considered. No light reflected from other surfaces, and also no light from glow-objects. So, if you have a sunny sky, and your sensor is located outside, it will receive light from the sun with -ab 0, but not from the remaining hemisphere which is typically defined as glow. And if it inside, it will receive any light unless it can directly see the sun. I would recommend Axel Jacob's Radiance tutorial as a start: http://www.jaloxa.eu/resources/radiance/documentation/index.shtml There are also some strategies described how to optimize calculations avoiding too high -ab values, which slow down the process (such as mkillum). And there has been a lot of development during the last year especially in fenestration, a look at the last workshop's slides at radiance-online.org may be useful. Cheers, Lars. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 6246 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110917/2a7574b7/attachment.bin From Alex.Ferguson at NRCan-RNCan.gc.ca Tue Sep 20 17:10:09 2011 From: Alex.Ferguson at NRCan-RNCan.gc.ca (Ferguson, Alex) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 12:10:09 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] Reminder: eSim 2012 Call for abstracts Message-ID: Reminder: The deadline for submissions to eSim 2012 is quickly approaching. Please submit your abstracts online at https://www.conftool.net/esim2012/ by Monday, September 26. We look forward to seeing you in Halifax next may. Conference Chairs: Dr. Lukas Swan, Dalhousie University Dr. Richard Kroeker, Dalhousie University Chair of the Scientific Committee: Alex Ferguson, Natural Resources Canada ( Alex.Ferguson at NRCan.gc.ca ) ________________________________ This call for abstracts is also posted online at http://www.esim.ca/abstract eSim 2012 - Call For Abstracts Next year, design professionals, academic researchers and students will convene in Halifax, Nova Scotia, to discuss advances, challenges and applications in building performance simulation. On May 2 and 3, 2012, Dalhousie University will host the 7th biennial IBPSA-Canada conference at the historic Pier-21 Museum on the Halifax Waterfront. eSim 2012 will also coincide with the first annual meeting of the recently announced NSERC Smart Net-Zero Energy Buildings Strategic Research Network (SNEBRN). The themes of the conference, as well as pre- and post-conference workshops, will relate closely to the network research priorities. We invite you to submit original research on the development and application of building performance simulation as it relates to building energy use, environmental impacts and occupant well-being. Only original papers related to the conference topics and not published elsewhere will be accepted. All accepted papers accompanied by a conference registration will be published in the conference proceedings and presented at the conference in oral sessions. In the event that submissions exceed the conference presentation quota, poster sessions will be held to accommodate additional papers. Each registration entitles the author to submit a single paper/poster. One additional paper/poster per registration is allowed with a special fee. Conference Themes * Recent developments for modelling the physical processes relevant to building performance (thermal, air flow, moisture, lighting) * Methods and algorithms for modelling conventional and innovative building systems (including envelope, lighting, controls, HVAC, renewable energy and distributed generation systems) * Methods for modelling and characterizing whole building performance, including interactions between systems within the building, and interactions between the building and its surrounding neighbourhood and community * Methods for modelling and characterizing occupant comfort and wellbeing (including thermal comfort, acoustic performance, air-quality, ventilation and lighting) * Building simulation software development and quality control approaches * Use of building simulation tools in building design, optimization, code compliance and incentive programs * Use of building simulation tools in stock- and sector-modelling studies at neighbourhood, community, municipal and national scales * Moving simulation into practice-case studies of innovative simulation approaches * Validation of building simulation software * User interface and software interoperability issues * Architectural and engineering data visualization and animation Abstract Requirements The deadline for abstracts is Monday, September 26, 2011. The abstract must be in plain text and be a maximum of 500 words. eSim 2012 is a bilingual conference and abstracts, papers and presentations will be accepted in either English or French. Please submit abstracts to the eSim web site at: http://www.esim.ca/abstract At least two reviewers will be assigned by the Scientific Committee to examine each abstract in a double-blind peer-review process. Corresponding authors will be informed of the abstract review results by October 17, 2011. Conference Chairs: Dr. Lukas Swan, Dalhousie University ( Lukas.Swan at Dal.Ca ) Dr. Richard Kroeker, Dalhousie University ( Richard.Kroeker at Dal.Ca ) Chair of the Scientific Committee: Alex Ferguson, Natural Resources Canada ( Alex.Ferguson at NRCan.gc.ca ) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110920/7b97569d/attachment-0001.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 65696 bytes Desc: word-cloud-small+halifax.jpg Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110920/7b97569d/attachment-0001.jpe -------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: ATT106550.txt Url: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110920/7b97569d/attachment-0001.txt From l.f.r.peeters at gmail.com Thu Sep 22 08:50:32 2011 From: l.f.r.peeters at gmail.com (leen peeters) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 09:50:32 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] ESP in windows Message-ID: Hi all, I downloaded esp for windows and I am building a set of 2 buildings with multiple zones in it When I am drawing the geometry, I have to open and close the project manager in order to visually see what I just drew. As soon as I add a soon, nothing is visible. I use approach of starting from a rectangular plan to build zones. Any suggestions (besides installing linux and running it in there ;-)) Leen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110922/9e9e240b/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Thu Sep 22 09:48:41 2011 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 09:48:41 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: ESP in windows - the (where is the zone) issue Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA4130195C17478D9@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> There is a work-around for that. Go to the pull-down tab for viewing and look in the viewing options - you will notice that the viewing angle has been reset to zero. Change this to ~40 degrees and you will be able to see the zone. This was fixed and if you want a newer version of the Native Windows Installer I can send you a link to be able to download a newer version. Regards, Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of leen peeters [l.f.r.peeters at gmail.com] Sent: 22 September 2011 08:50 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] ESP in windows Hi all, I downloaded esp for windows and I am building a set of 2 buildings with multiple zones in it When I am drawing the geometry, I have to open and close the project manager in order to visually see what I just drew. As soon as I add a soon, nothing is visible. I use approach of starting from a rectangular plan to build zones. Any suggestions (besides installing linux and running it in there ;-)) Leen From A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk Thu Sep 22 21:44:46 2011 From: A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk (A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 20:44:46 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Probabilistic weather files References: Message-ID: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C1215F892F12@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> Dear All, I am importing some probabilistic weather files from the Prometheus project (University of Exeter) into ESP-r has anyone tried to use these files with ESP-r before? I am importing the current EPW files into ASCII binary from the climate db screen. The process is sometimes working and some other times not. I don't know exactly what the problem is. I would like to know if I can create a folder that contains these weather files either in my model folder or in the climate data base and if I can reload automatically these new climate files that I am creating from one of these locations. I appreciate any suggestion, thank you in advance. Arianna Sdei ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110922/ff3ff44e/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Fri Sep 23 10:38:54 2011 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2011 10:38:54 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Probabilistic weather files In-Reply-To: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C1215F892F12@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> References: , <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C1215F892F12@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA4130195C17478E3@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> About EPW files. Some new EPW files have long names for locations and older versions of ESP-r clm module faulted when reading them. Make sure you are using the version 11.11 of ESP-r. If you need an up-to-date Native Windows Installer let me know and I will send you a link. The files on the ESRU download page are a bit out of date. Many people put project climate files in the model dbs folder. The reference in the model cfg file then takes the form ../dbs/filename. As for working with lots of files - the clm module can be driven to convert EPW files to ESP-r file via command line arguments. The missing step is that to get climate files to show up in the list presented within the project manager you need to include information in the 'climatelist' file. The ESP-r Cookbook (Dec 2010 version) discusses this process. If you want to work with thousands of climate files we might need to resize some arrays in ESP-r. -Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk [A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk] Sent: 22 September 2011 21:44 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Probabilistic weather files Dear All, I am importing some probabilistic weather files from the Prometheus project (University of Exeter) into ESP-r has anyone tried to use these files with ESP-r before? I am importing the current EPW files into ASCII binary from the climate db screen. The process is sometimes working and some other times not. I don?t know exactly what the problem is. I would like to know if I can create a folder that contains these weather files either in my model folder or in the climate data base and if I can reload automatically these new climate files that I am creating from one of these locations. I appreciate any suggestion, thank you in advance. Arianna Sdei ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ From l.f.r.peeters at gmail.com Sat Sep 24 15:00:13 2011 From: l.f.r.peeters at gmail.com (leen peeters) Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2011 16:00:13 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] 7 openings in a surface_windows ESP Message-ID: Hi all, adding a seventh surface inside a wall of a single zone ensures the model to crash. Is there a trick around in the windows version of ESP? thanks, Leen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110924/b75d6fb4/attachment.html From l.f.r.peeters at gmail.com Sat Sep 24 19:22:47 2011 From: l.f.r.peeters at gmail.com (leen peeters) Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2011 20:22:47 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] end of line Message-ID: Hi all, case: running in windows, recent version of ESP-r problem: complaint about length of lines in geo-files warning message: WARNING: in .\\north-west.geo past end of line for surface other 3 in... *surf,Wall-3,VERT,-,-,-,intern_wall,OPAQUE,ANOTHER,07 WARNING: in .\\south-east.geo past end of line for surface other 3 in... *surf,Wall-3,VERT,-,-,-,intern_wall,OPAQUE,ANOTHER,07 WARNING: in .\\north-west.geo past end of line for surface other 3 in... *surf,Wall-3,VERT,-,-,-,intern_wall,OPAQUE,ANOTHER,07 WARNING: in .\\south-east.geo past end of line for surface other 3 in... *surf,Wall-3,VERT,-,-,-,intern_wall,OPAQUE,ANOTHER,07 Below is an extraction of one of the GEO-files. Is there a solution? Or can I just ignore the warmings ???? extraction of GEO-file: # tag, number of vertices followed by list of associated vert *edges,5,9,10,11,6,5 # 1 *edges,41,2,17,16,19,18,17,2,3,13,12,15,14,13,3,25,24,27,26,25,3,7,23,22,21,20,23,7,34,33,32,35,34,7,6,31,30,29,28,31,6,11 # 2 *edges,4,3,4,8,7 # 3 *edges,5,4,1,9,5,8 # 4 *edges,4,5,6,7,8 # 5 *edges,4,1,4,3,2 # 6 *edges,5,1,2,11,10,9 # 7 *edges,4,13,14,15,12 # 8 *edges,4,16,17,18,19 # 9 *edges,4,20,21,22,23 # 10 *edges,4,24,25,26,27 # 11 *edges,4,28,29,30,31 # 12 *edges,4,32,33,34,35 # 13 # # surf attributes: # surf name, surf position VERT/CEIL/FLOR/SLOP/UNKN # child of (surface name), useage (pair of tags) # construction name, optical name # boundary condition tag followed by two data items *surf,Wall-1,VERT,-,-,-,extern_wall,OPAQUE,EXTERIOR,00,00 # 1 ||< external *surf,wall-2,VERT,door1,-,-,extern_wall,OPAQUE,EXTERIOR,0,0 # 2 ||< external *surf,wall-3,VERT,-,-,-,extern_wall,OPAQUE,EXTERIOR,0,0 # 3 ||< external *surf,Wall-4,VERT,-,-,-,intern_wall,OPAQUE,ANOTHER,01,02 # 4 ||< Wall-2:main_north *surf,Top-5,SLOP,-,-,-,roof,OPAQUE,EXTERIOR,0,0 # 5 ||< external *surf,Base-6,FLOR,-,-,-,grnd_floor,OPAQUE,GROUND,01,0 # 6 ||< ground profile 1 *surf,Wall-7,VERT,-,-,-,intern_wall,OPAQUE,ANOTHER,04,03 # 7 ||< Wall-3:south-east *surf,door1,VERT,wall-2,-,-,door,OPAQUE,EXTERIOR,0,0 # 8 ||< external *surf,door2,VERT,wall-2,-,-,door,OPAQUE,EXTERIOR,0,0 # 9 ||< external *surf,window1,VERT,-,C-WINDOW,CLOSED,d_glz,DCF7671_06nb,EXTERIOR,0,0 # 10 ||< external *surf,window2,VERT,-,C-WINDOW,CLOSED,door,OPAQUE,EXTERIOR,0,0 # 11 ||< external *surf,window3,VERT,wall-2,C-WINDOW,CLOSED,d_glz,DCF7671_06nb,EXTERIOR,0,0 # 12 ||< external *surf,window4,VERT,-,C-WINDOW,CLOSED,d_glz,DCF7671_06nb,EXTERIOR,0,0 # 13 ||< external -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110924/6b4c0728/attachment.html From l.f.r.peeters at gmail.com Sat Sep 24 22:46:07 2011 From: l.f.r.peeters at gmail.com (leen peeters) Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2011 23:46:07 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] PV model simple_pv Message-ID: Dear all, how can one adapt the size/peak power of the PV installation in case of the simple PV model? thanks, leen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110924/1754b7fa/attachment.html From achim.geissler at intergga.ch Sun Sep 25 17:07:25 2011 From: achim.geissler at intergga.ch (Achim Geissler) Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2011 18:07:25 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: 7 openings in a surface_windows ESP In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41A9BB1C-7EF8-465B-8B1A-05088F8FFB1C@intergga.ch> Hi Leen, have you tried first splitting the original surface in two? Possibly, though, I do not quite understand what you mean by "seventh surface inside a wall". If you mean seven "subsurfaces" in one original "wall surface", I would think first splitting the original wall in subsurfaces (which all go to the boundaries of the overall surface) and then adding the "surfaces inside" could help. Achim On Sep 24, 2011, at 4:00 PM, leen peeters wrote: > Hi all, > > adding a seventh surface inside a wall of a single zone ensures the model to crash. Is there a trick around in the windows version of ESP? > > thanks, > > Leen > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r achim.geissler at intergga.ch From achim.geissler at intergga.ch Sun Sep 25 20:34:49 2011 From: achim.geissler at intergga.ch (Achim Geissler) Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2011 21:34:49 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: PV model simple_pv In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Leen not quite sure, again, what you mean. Are you using the "special material" PV? Depending on the chosen type, there are ample parameters to set. For the "simple PV", you can only set the conversion ratio (%), though. However, together with the according surface area, this should give you your Peak as desired. Achim On Sep 24, 2011, at 11:46 PM, leen peeters wrote: > Dear all, > > how can one adapt the size/peak power of the PV installation in case of the simple PV model? > > thanks, > > leen > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r achim.geissler at intergga.ch From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Mon Sep 26 09:55:17 2011 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2011 09:55:17 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: end of line In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA4130195C17478F7@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> A surface with 41 edges is a really really complex surface. I would suggest sub-dividing the surface if possible. There should be 11 items on a *surf line. In the warning messages there are 10. The attribute ANOTHER should be followed by two integers (zone and surface) for the associated zone. -Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of leen peeters [l.f.r.peeters at gmail.com] Sent: 24 September 2011 19:22 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] end of line Hi all, case: running in windows, recent version of ESP-r problem: complaint about length of lines in geo-files warning message: WARNING: in .\\north-west.geo past end of line for surface other 3 in... *surf,Wall-3,VERT,-,-,-,intern_wall,OPAQUE,ANOTHER,07 WARNING: in .\\south-east.geo past end of line for surface other 3 in... *surf,Wall-3,VERT,-,-,-,intern_wall,OPAQUE,ANOTHER,07 WARNING: in .\\north-west.geo past end of line for surface other 3 in... *surf,Wall-3,VERT,-,-,-,intern_wall,OPAQUE,ANOTHER,07 WARNING: in .\\south-east.geo past end of line for surface other 3 in... *surf,Wall-3,VERT,-,-,-,intern_wall,OPAQUE,ANOTHER,07 Below is an extraction of one of the GEO-files. Is there a solution? Or can I just ignore the warmings ???? extraction of GEO-file: # tag, number of vertices followed by list of associated vert *edges,5,9,10,11,6,5 # 1 *edges,41,2,17,16,19,18,17,2,3,13,12,15,14,13,3,25,24,27,26,25,3,7,23,22,21,20,23,7,34,33,32,35,34,7,6,31,30,29,28,31,6,11 # 2 *edges,4,3,4,8,7 # 3 *edges,5,4,1,9,5,8 # 4 *edges,4,5,6,7,8 # 5 *edges,4,1,4,3,2 # 6 *edges,5,1,2,11,10,9 # 7 *edges,4,13,14,15,12 # 8 *edges,4,16,17,18,19 # 9 *edges,4,20,21,22,23 # 10 *edges,4,24,25,26,27 # 11 *edges,4,28,29,30,31 # 12 *edges,4,32,33,34,35 # 13 # # surf attributes: # surf name, surf position VERT/CEIL/FLOR/SLOP/UNKN # child of (surface name), useage (pair of tags) # construction name, optical name # boundary condition tag followed by two data items *surf,Wall-1,VERT,-,-,-,extern_wall,OPAQUE,EXTERIOR,00,00 # 1 ||< external *surf,wall-2,VERT,door1,-,-,extern_wall,OPAQUE,EXTERIOR,0,0 # 2 ||< external *surf,wall-3,VERT,-,-,-,extern_wall,OPAQUE,EXTERIOR,0,0 # 3 ||< external *surf,Wall-4,VERT,-,-,-,intern_wall,OPAQUE,ANOTHER,01,02 # 4 ||< Wall-2:main_north *surf,Top-5,SLOP,-,-,-,roof,OPAQUE,EXTERIOR,0,0 # 5 ||< external *surf,Base-6,FLOR,-,-,-,grnd_floor,OPAQUE,GROUND,01,0 # 6 ||< ground profile 1 *surf,Wall-7,VERT,-,-,-,intern_wall,OPAQUE,ANOTHER,04,03 # 7 ||< Wall-3:south-east *surf,door1,VERT,wall-2,-,-,door,OPAQUE,EXTERIOR,0,0 # 8 ||< external *surf,door2,VERT,wall-2,-,-,door,OPAQUE,EXTERIOR,0,0 # 9 ||< external *surf,window1,VERT,-,C-WINDOW,CLOSED,d_glz,DCF7671_06nb,EXTERIOR,0,0 # 10 ||< external *surf,window2,VERT,-,C-WINDOW,CLOSED,door,OPAQUE,EXTERIOR,0,0 # 11 ||< external *surf,window3,VERT,wall-2,C-WINDOW,CLOSED,d_glz,DCF7671_06nb,EXTERIOR,0,0 # 12 ||< external *surf,window4,VERT,-,C-WINDOW,CLOSED,d_glz,DCF7671_06nb,EXTERIOR,0,0 # 13 ||< external From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Mon Sep 26 10:12:52 2011 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2011 10:12:52 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: 7 openings in a surface_windows ESP In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA4130195C17478F8@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> All versions of ESP-r support the same maximum resolution of edges that make up a polygon. The current number is 42, earlier versions supported ~32 edges. Typically this allows you to define floor plates for complex rooms or to put up to two windows and possibly a door as child surfaces to one parent surface. This is the first time that I have heard of someone attempting 7 child surfaces and I don't think that most people could cope with defining so many child surfaces. If you have lots of windows to put in a facade then you need to ensure that there are enough parent surfaces or you have to be very clever about making a few transparent surfaces look like they are several surfaces (difficult to explain in text). ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of leen peeters [l.f.r.peeters at gmail.com] Sent: 24 September 2011 15:00 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] 7 openings in a surface_windows ESP Hi all, adding a seventh surface inside a wall of a single zone ensures the model to crash. Is there a trick around in the windows version of ESP? thanks, Leen From l.f.r.peeters at gmail.com Wed Sep 28 10:57:49 2011 From: l.f.r.peeters at gmail.com (leen peeters) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2011 11:57:49 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] glazing Message-ID: Hi all, is there a material database which holds info on high quality glazing? I am looking for data to be able to make a window with U down to 0.7 W/m2K ... thanks -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110928/6d9c56c0/attachment.html From achim.geissler at fhnw.ch Wed Sep 28 11:32:13 2011 From: achim.geissler at fhnw.ch (Geissler Achim) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2011 12:32:13 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: glazing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0F4309A75967A944A1E3C19469796698E8DB9A8393@MXAMU12.adm.ds.fhnw.ch> Hi Leen our typical approach is to set up the glazing in Window or WIS - for Window, you have the full IGDB (some 2000+ entries) to choose from. For Ug = 0.7 you will need triple glazing, but then this value is not very difficult to reach (many available coatings, Argon filling). There is a direct import to ESP-r available for Window 6 and WIS output. However, I have never used it so do not know possible "quirks". Best Achim Von: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] Im Auftrag von leen peeters Gesendet: Mittwoch, 28. September 2011 11:58 An: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Betreff: [esp-r] glazing Hi all, is there a material database which holds info on high quality glazing? I am looking for data to be able to make a window with U down to 0.7 W/m2K ... thanks -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110928/03e5d684/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Wed Sep 28 11:49:58 2011 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2011 11:49:58 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: higher quality glazing and frames Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA4130195C174790C@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> The Jon_Hand branch includes an update to the multicon.db4 and optics.db2 and materials.db3.a databases with two very good U value fame systems and several tripple glazed windows. At some point in the future these will be available in the standard version of ESP-r. If you checkout my svn branch (and select multicon.db4) you will get these options. The very latest BETA versions of ESP-r (I can send links to several installers) should also have these. Regards, Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of leen peeters [l.f.r.peeters at gmail.com] Sent: 28 September 2011 10:57 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] glazing Hi all, is there a material database which holds info on high quality glazing? I am looking for data to be able to make a window with U down to 0.7 W/m2K ... thanks From l.f.r.peeters at gmail.com Wed Sep 28 15:40:21 2011 From: l.f.r.peeters at gmail.com (leen peeters) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2011 16:40:21 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] weird phenomen Message-ID: Hi all, I have a control in my model that gives 20kW of heat power to zone1. The temperature is asked to be between 16 and 18. However, he seems not to get it. He keeps below, even without achieving the maximum heating power. Can anyone suggest me how to solve that? it is Jon's ESP-r for windows .. Leen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110928/c0c45290/attachment-0001.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Oud_heverlee_multizone (2).zip Type: application/zip Size: 52398 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110928/c0c45290/attachment-0001.zip From Camilo.Diaz at WSPGroup.com Wed Sep 28 15:48:07 2011 From: Camilo.Diaz at WSPGroup.com (Diaz, Camilo) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2011 15:48:07 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] climate change Message-ID: <8D1DBECA68C12349A239B8977228707A1107BEE5@EXC04COL1UK.uk.wspgroup.com> Hi all Has anybody done any energy modelling studies of buildings to predict energy in the future? We are doing a study of a simple single zone building for 2010, 2020, 2030, and 2040 for various locations in the world and would like to compare notes. We are predicting between 6-10% increase in energy use. Thanks Camilo Diaz Associate Director WSP Environment & Energy Ltd 70 Chancery Lane, London WC2A 1AF T +44(0)20 7314 4447 M +44(0) 7713985845 www.wspenvironmental.com www.wspgroup.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110928/50870c08/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Wed Sep 28 15:57:47 2011 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2011 15:57:47 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: control issues Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA4130195C1747914@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> First suggestion - create a model contents report. ( browse-edit-simulate -> results & QA reporting ) Look at the section of the report that deals with control. Check that you have associated the control loop with zone1. Next consider what kind of control are you using. The 16 degrees is probably the heating setpoint but is the 18C a cooling set point or a throttling range for a PI controller? PI controllers often need to be tuned. Try a basic control with a heating set point of 16C or 17C instead. -Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of leen peeters [l.f.r.peeters at gmail.com] Sent: 28 September 2011 15:40 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] weird phenomen Hi all, I have a control in my model that gives 20kW of heat power to zone1. The temperature is asked to be between 16 and 18. However, he seems not to get it. He keeps below, even without achieving the maximum heating power. Can anyone suggest me how to solve that? it is Jon's ESP-r for windows .. Leen From l.f.r.peeters at gmail.com Wed Sep 28 23:37:11 2011 From: l.f.r.peeters at gmail.com (leen peeters) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2011 00:37:11 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] modelling solar shading devices Message-ID: Hi all, is there a way to model solar shading devices based on preferences as achieved indoor temperature? I want to look at the thermal side only (for now), not the daylighting issues. So the opening and closing of things like blinds or external shading devices shoudl be controlled by inside temperature considtions and outside climatic conditions,.... Thanks, Leen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110929/adca18ec/attachment.html From achim.geissler at fhnw.ch Thu Sep 29 07:36:59 2011 From: achim.geissler at fhnw.ch (Geissler Achim) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2011 08:36:59 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: weird phenomen In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0F4309A75967A944A1E3C19469796698E8DB9A875E@MXAMU12.adm.ds.fhnw.ch> Hi Leen have you solved this? Taking a quick look at your .ctl file shows that you have different controls set up. Do the other zones work? The main difference seems to be that in zone 1 you are actuating the air point, but sensing a mix of db and MRT. Possibly, this combination does not work (either sense air point and actuate air point or sense db and MRT and actuate mix of convective/radiant flux). The basic controller you are using should generally work fine. I noticed that the set points you give (typically 16 and 28) are not quite consistent thru ought the zones. Sometimes its "16 and 26" for a short period. Best Achim Von: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] Im Auftrag von leen peeters Gesendet: Mittwoch, 28. September 2011 16:40 An: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Betreff: [esp-r] weird phenomen Hi all, I have a control in my model that gives 20kW of heat power to zone1. The temperature is asked to be between 16 and 18. However, he seems not to get it. He keeps below, even without achieving the maximum heating power. Can anyone suggest me how to solve that? it is Jon's ESP-r for windows .. Leen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110929/2e36ee07/attachment.html From achim.geissler at fhnw.ch Thu Sep 29 12:23:37 2011 From: achim.geissler at fhnw.ch (Geissler Achim) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2011 13:23:37 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: modelling solar shading devices In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0F4309A75967A944A1E3C19469796698E8DB9A89FF@MXAMU12.adm.ds.fhnw.ch> Hi Leen a very interesting question. Assuming you checked the available options in the control menu, then it is likely that it is not possible "out of the box". If the individual sensors you need are available, it may be possible by setting up a "nested control" (which I have never used, but would like to know more about), though. Did you check the CookBook? Otherwise, you will need to add such an option via coding it yourself. Depending on further interests in your study, you may want to contemplate using the 'Complex Fenestration Constructions' (CFC). These have many benefits in regard to systems of glazing and solar shading. Also, adding control features is comparatively straightforward for CFCs. Hopefully, someone else on the list can give you more help. Best Achim Von: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] Im Auftrag von leen peeters Gesendet: Donnerstag, 29. September 2011 00:37 An: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Betreff: [esp-r] modelling solar shading devices Hi all, is there a way to model solar shading devices based on preferences as achieved indoor temperature? I want to look at the thermal side only (for now), not the daylighting issues. So the opening and closing of things like blinds or external shading devices shoudl be controlled by inside temperature considtions and outside climatic conditions,.... Thanks, Leen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110929/27ba023a/attachment.html From Bartosz.Lomanowski at NRCan-RNCan.gc.ca Thu Sep 29 18:00:41 2011 From: Bartosz.Lomanowski at NRCan-RNCan.gc.ca (Lomanowski, Bartosz) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2011 13:00:41 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] Re: modelling solar shading devices References: Message-ID: Hi Leen, Using Complex Fenestration Constructions (CFCs) may be a good option for you, especially if you're not concerned with daylighting. For a quick user's guide on implementing CFCs in an ESP-r model, see Appendix F in my thesis: http://uwspace.uwaterloo.ca/bitstream/10012/4164/1/Lomanowski_Bartosz.pdf You can download the glazing/shading layer editor GSLedit, here: http://www.esru.strath.ac.uk/Downloads/downloads.htm Control of CFCs is managed through the usual ESP-r control domain interface in prj, and hopefully you will find the available sensors to be sufficient for your application. Regards, Bart Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2011 13:23:37 +0200 From: Geissler Achim Subject: [esp-r] Re: modelling solar shading devices To: leen peeters , "esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk" Message-ID: <0F4309A75967A944A1E3C19469796698E8DB9A89FF at MXAMU12.adm.ds.fhnw.ch> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Leen a very interesting question. Assuming you checked the available options in the control menu, then it is likely that it is not possible "out of the box". If the individual sensors you need are available, it may be possible by setting up a "nested control" (which I have never used, but would like to know more about), though. Did you check the CookBook? Otherwise, you will need to add such an option via coding it yourself. Depending on further interests in your study, you may want to contemplate using the 'Complex Fenestration Constructions' (CFC). These have many benefits in regard to systems of glazing and solar shading. Also, adding control features is comparatively straightforward for CFCs. Hopefully, someone else on the list can give you more help. Best Achim Von: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] Im Auftrag von leen peeters Gesendet: Donnerstag, 29. September 2011 00:37 An: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Betreff: [esp-r] modelling solar shading devices Hi all, is there a way to model solar shading devices based on preferences as achieved indoor temperature? I want to look at the thermal side only (for now), not the daylighting issues. So the opening and closing of things like blinds or external shading devices shoudl be controlled by inside temperature considtions and outside climatic conditions,.... Thanks, Leen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110929/27ba023a/attachment-0001.html ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r End of esp-r Digest, Vol 62, Issue 17 ************************************* -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 6116 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110929/509dab7c/attachment.bin From ikram7074 at yahoo.com Fri Sep 30 05:43:42 2011 From: ikram7074 at yahoo.com (akram dandu) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2011 21:43:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [esp-r] Import optical data from Window 5 - Need help Message-ID: <1317357822.94293.YahooMailNeo@web161403.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Dear All, Sorry. I tried to import optical data from LBNL's Window 5.2.17a (Windows 7) into ESP-r (Linux) using import/add/delete/copy selection. However, it didn't work and at command line displayed; At line 1322 of file edoptic.F Fortran runtime error: Expected REAL for item 8 in formatted transfer, got CHARACTER (7f6.3,i2) ? ^ Please advice and appreciate everyone helps. Kind regards, Akram EEE Dept. Uni. Of Strathclyde -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110929/9ad71cd3/attachment.html From CaoC at bre.co.uk Fri Sep 30 09:22:11 2011 From: CaoC at bre.co.uk (Cao, Chunli) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2011 09:22:11 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Can esp-r simulate PCM? In-Reply-To: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA4130195C1747914@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> References: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA4130195C1747914@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> Message-ID: Dear All, Does esp-r have the capability to simulate the impact of phase change material (PCM)? Is there any test case available? Thanks. Regards, Chunli ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The UK Passivhaus Conference, 24-25 October, London Offers a comprehensive review of the uptake of Passivhaus in the UK covering the standard, its suitability, leading edge case studies and practical delivery of the first Passivhaus projects in the UK www.ukpassivhausconference.org.uk The 40 Per Cent Symposium, 23 November, London UK's most innovative conference on managing sustainability in commercial property. Find out more: www.40percentsymposium.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Privileged and confidential information and/or copyright material may be contained in this e-mail. If you are not the intended addressee you may not copy or deliver it to anyone else or use it in any unauthorised manner. To do so is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you receive this e-mail by mistake, please advise the sender immediately by return e-mail and destroy all copies. Thank you. Building Research Establishment Ltd, Registered under number 3319324 in England and Wales. VAT Registration No GB 689 9499 27. www.bre.co.uk BRE Global Limited, Registered under number 3548352 in England and Wales. www.breglobal.com Building Research Establishment and BRE Global are subsidiaries of the BRE Trust. BRE Trust is a company limited by guarantee, Registered under number 3282856 in England and Wales, and registered as a charity in England (no. 1092193) and in Scotland (no. SC039320). Registered Offices: Bucknalls Lane, Garston, Watford, Hertfordshire WD25 9XX ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Fri Sep 30 11:46:42 2011 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2011 11:46:42 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Import optical data from Window 5 - Need help In-Reply-To: <1317357822.94293.YahooMailNeo@web161403.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1317357822.94293.YahooMailNeo@web161403.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA4130195C174791E@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> I recently did some work with the ESP-r import from LBNL so that it works with version 6.3 of LBNL Windows. Certainly this works on Linux and OSX if the windows report file is converted from DOS to Unix line endings. I think I have also done this import on Windows XP & W7. Since 5.2 is out of date this has not been tested recently but the more recent logic might do a better job with a version 5.2 file than the version you have. Below is a link to a ~10 minute video tutorial that goes through all the steps (assuming you are using 6.3). http://dl.dropbox.com/u/17785121/lbnl_win63_optics_use_wc.mp4 If you find this tutorial useful or have a comment about how it might be improved I would like to hear from anyone. Below is a link to yesterdays native windows installer that includes the import from 6.3 facility. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/17785121/ESPr_Installers/ESP-r_setup_native_windows_gtk_txt_v11_11_jwh7168.exe Regards, Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of akram dandu [ikram7074 at yahoo.com] Sent: 30 September 2011 05:43 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Import optical data from Window 5 - Need help Dear All, Sorry. I tried to import optical data from LBNL's Window 5.2.17a (Windows 7) into ESP-r (Linux) using import/add/delete/copy selection. However, it didn't work and at command line displayed; At line 1322 of file edoptic.F Fortran runtime error: Expected REAL for item 8 in formatted transfer, got CHARACTER (7f6.3,i2) ^ Please advice and appreciate everyone helps. Kind regards, Akram EEE Dept. Uni. Of Strathclyde From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Fri Sep 30 11:47:00 2011 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2011 11:47:00 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Can esp-r simulate PCM? In-Reply-To: References: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA4130195C1747914@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk>, Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA4130195C174791F@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> ESP-r has facilities to describe PCM and embed them within a model, even into a transparent surface (some PCM are not opaque). We are currently in the process of updating ESP-r PCM facilities based on some recent PhD research in ESRU. Hopefully this will be merged into the standard version of ESP-r in the near future. Regards, Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Cao, Chunli [CaoC at bre.co.uk] Sent: 30 September 2011 09:22 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Can esp-r simulate PCM? Dear All, Does esp-r have the capability to simulate the impact of phase change material (PCM)? Is there any test case available? Thanks. Regards, Chunli ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The UK Passivhaus Conference, 24-25 October, London Offers a comprehensive review of the uptake of Passivhaus in the UK covering the standard, its suitability, leading edge case studies and practical delivery of the first Passivhaus projects in the UK www.ukpassivhausconference.org.uk The 40 Per Cent Symposium, 23 November, London UK's most innovative conference on managing sustainability in commercial property. Find out more: www.40percentsymposium.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Privileged and confidential information and/or copyright material may be contained in this e-mail. If you are not the intended addressee you may not copy or deliver it to anyone else or use it in any unauthorised manner. To do so is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you receive this e-mail by mistake, please advise the sender immediately by return e-mail and destroy all copies. Thank you. Building Research Establishment Ltd, Registered under number 3319324 in England and Wales. VAT Registration No GB 689 9499 27. www.bre.co.uk BRE Global Limited, Registered under number 3548352 in England and Wales. www.breglobal.com Building Research Establishment and BRE Global are subsidiaries of the BRE Trust. BRE Trust is a company limited by guarantee, Registered under number 3282856 in England and Wales, and registered as a charity in England (no. 1092193) and in Scotland (no. SC039320). Registered Offices: Bucknalls Lane, Garston, Watford, Hertfordshire WD25 9XX ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk Fri Sep 30 16:18:49 2011 From: A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk (A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2011 15:18:49 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: climate change In-Reply-To: <8D1DBECA68C12349A239B8977228707A1107BEE5@EXC04COL1UK.uk.wspgroup.com> References: <8D1DBECA68C12349A239B8977228707A1107BEE5@EXC04COL1UK.uk.wspgroup.com> Message-ID: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C1215F89B837@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> Hi Camillo, I am currently working with climate change weather files for my PhD. I am using multi zone single and two storey housing models and I am testing the effects of climate change by 2030, 50 and 80 in the south east of England. I would be delighted to exchange notes, have a discussion and talk about the challenges that this work implies. I am based in London and I could come over to see you if that's convenient. Are you using ESP-r for the simulations? How did you find the process of inserting the climate projections into ESP-r? I am using climate files from the Prometheus website, are you using the same data? Let me know, Kind regards Arianna Sdei From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Diaz, Camilo Sent: 28 September 2011 15:48 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] climate change Hi all Has anybody done any energy modelling studies of buildings to predict energy in the future? We are doing a study of a simple single zone building for 2010, 2020, 2030, and 2040 for various locations in the world and would like to compare notes. We are predicting between 6-10% increase in energy use. Thanks Camilo Diaz Associate Director WSP Environment & Energy Ltd 70 Chancery Lane, London WC2A 1AF T +44(0)20 7314 4447 M +44(0) 7713985845 www.wspenvironmental.com www.wspgroup.com ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20110930/e23a0569/attachment.html From CaoC at bre.co.uk Fri Sep 30 11:54:02 2011 From: CaoC at bre.co.uk (Cao, Chunli) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2011 11:54:02 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Can esp-r simulate PCM? In-Reply-To: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA4130195C174791F@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> References: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA4130195C1747914@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk>, <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA4130195C174791F@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> Message-ID: Thanks, Jon. It's very helpful. Regards, Chunli -----Original Message----- From: Jon Hand [mailto:jon at esru.strath.ac.uk] Sent: 30 September 2011 11:47 To: Cao, Chunli; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: RE: Can esp-r simulate PCM? ESP-r has facilities to describe PCM and embed them within a model, even into a transparent surface (some PCM are not opaque). We are currently in the process of updating ESP-r PCM facilities based on some recent PhD research in ESRU. Hopefully this will be merged into the standard version of ESP-r in the near future. Regards, Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Cao, Chunli [CaoC at bre.co.uk] Sent: 30 September 2011 09:22 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Can esp-r simulate PCM? Dear All, Does esp-r have the capability to simulate the impact of phase change material (PCM)? Is there any test case available? Thanks. Regards, Chunli ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The UK Passivhaus Conference, 24-25 October, London Offers a comprehensive review of the uptake of Passivhaus in the UK covering the standard, its suitability, leading edge case studies and practical delivery of the first Passivhaus projects in the UK www.ukpassivhausconference.org.uk The 40 Per Cent Symposium, 23 November, London UK's most innovative conference on managing sustainability in commercial property. Find out more: www.40percentsymposium.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Privileged and confidential information and/or copyright material may be contained in this e-mail. If you are not the intended addressee you may not copy or deliver it to anyone else or use it in any unauthorised manner. To do so is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you receive this e-mail by mistake, please advise the sender immediately by return e-mail and destroy all copies. Thank you. Building Research Establishment Ltd, Registered under number 3319324 in England and Wales. VAT Registration No GB 689 9499 27. www.bre.co.uk BRE Global Limited, Registered under number 3548352 in England and Wales. www.breglobal.com Building Research Establishment and BRE Global are subsidiaries of the BRE Trust. BRE Trust is a company limited by guarantee, Registered under number 3282856 in England and Wales, and registered as a charity in England (no. 1092193) and in Scotland (no. SC039320). Registered Offices: Bucknalls Lane, Garston, Watford, Hertfordshire WD25 9XX ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The UK Passivhaus Conference, 24-25 October, London Offers a comprehensive review of the uptake of Passivhaus in the UK covering the standard, its suitability, leading edge case studies and practical delivery of the first Passivhaus projects in the UK www.ukpassivhausconference.org.uk The 40 Per Cent Symposium, 23 November, London UK's most innovative conference on managing sustainability in commercial property. Find out more: www.40percentsymposium.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Privileged and confidential information and/or copyright material may be contained in this e-mail. If you are not the intended addressee you may not copy or deliver it to anyone else or use it in any unauthorised manner. To do so is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you receive this e-mail by mistake, please advise the sender immediately by return e-mail and destroy all copies. Thank you. Building Research Establishment Ltd, Registered under number 3319324 in England and Wales. VAT Registration No GB 689 9499 27. www.bre.co.uk BRE Global Limited, Registered under number 3548352 in England and Wales. www.breglobal.com Building Research Establishment and BRE Global are subsidiaries of the BRE Trust. BRE Trust is a company limited by guarantee, Registered under number 3282856 in England and Wales, and registered as a charity in England (no. 1092193) and in Scotland (no. SC039320). Registered Offices: Bucknalls Lane, Garston, Watford, Hertfordshire WD25 9XX ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From denis.fan at gmail.com Tue Oct 4 17:14:09 2011 From: denis.fan at gmail.com (Denis Fan) Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 17:14:09 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Using Temporal Data Feature Message-ID: Hi everyone, I tried to use the temporal data feature to link external temperature, as well as heating and cooling setpoints in my ESP-r model. I have successfully linked the external temperature (DBTEXTT) without any problem, but not with the heating and cooling setpoints (HTCLSETP). I hope someone can help me out on this. I can view the setpoints data from the view/edit temporal entities - in this case I assumed the tdfa file is fine and shouldn't has any conflicts in its formatting. I checked I have added the temporal entity for HTCLSETP and is linked to a 'Match sensed value' control loop for a particular zone (zone1). The specification of this control function is as follows: ===== The sensor for function 9 senses dry bulb temperature in zone1. The actuator for function 9 is the air point in zone1. There have been 1 day types defined. Day type 1 is valid Fri-01-Jan to Fri-31-Dec, 2010 with 1 periods. Per|Start|Sensing |Actuating | Control law | Data 1 0.00 db temp > flux Sensed temp setpts 2.0 3.0 Match sensed values (ideal:2 setpoints) heating setpt col. no. in tdf 2.00 cooling setpt col. no. in tdf 3.000 .... Zone to contol loop linkages: zone ( 1) zone1 << control 9 ===== Values 2.0 and 3.0 are used here, as column 2 and 3 from the tdfa file has the heating and cooling setpoint values respectively. I run a simulation, but the zone air temperature doesn't matched with the setpoints, and the result is more behaving like using free floating. Wondering whether I have done something wrong? Many thanks. Regards, Denis From achim.geissler at fhnw.ch Thu Oct 6 12:26:34 2011 From: achim.geissler at fhnw.ch (Geissler Achim) Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2011 13:26:34 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Using Temporal Data Feature In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0F4309A75967A944A1E3C19469796698E8DC204F64@MXAMU12.adm.ds.fhnw.ch> Hi Denis maybe this can help, if you have not already solved the problem. The set-up outlined below worked for me. The point may be that some entries in the tdf have more than one column of data attached. So, you need to give the controller the item number, not necessarily the data-column number. Achim === Item 5 in .tdf *items *tag,Setp<> *type,SETPTTT *menu,Set point temp: *aide,Set point temp *other, 0 1 *fields, 1 REAL 1 29 0.000 -101.000 101.000 Set point temperature (C) : *end_item ==== Control file: <> Zone control for occupancy-driven heating 4 # No. of functions * Control function 1 # senses dry bulb temperature in <>. 1 0 0 0 # sensor data # actuates the air point in KR_SE. 1 0 0 # actuator data 1 # No. day types 1 365 # valid Thu-01-Jan - Thu-31-Dec 1 # No. of periods in day: weekdays 0 11 0.000 # ctl type, law (reads from temporal file item. 5), start @ 12. # No. of data items 2950.000 0.000 0.000 0.000 1.000 3.000 -5.000 <<5.000>> 0.000 0.000 1.000 0.000 ==== Configuration file (.cfg) *tdf ../nets/<>.tdfa # tdf item id, item type, , ... Setp<> SETPTTT loop_1 ALL <> ... === -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] Im Auftrag von Denis Fan Gesendet: Dienstag, 4. Oktober 2011 18:14 An: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Betreff: [esp-r] Using Temporal Data Feature Hi everyone, I tried to use the temporal data feature to link external temperature, as well as heating and cooling setpoints in my ESP-r model. I have successfully linked the external temperature (DBTEXTT) without any problem, but not with the heating and cooling setpoints (HTCLSETP). I hope someone can help me out on this. I can view the setpoints data from the view/edit temporal entities - in this case I assumed the tdfa file is fine and shouldn't has any conflicts in its formatting. I checked I have added the temporal entity for HTCLSETP and is linked to a 'Match sensed value' control loop for a particular zone (zone1). The specification of this control function is as follows: ===== The sensor for function 9 senses dry bulb temperature in zone1. The actuator for function 9 is the air point in zone1. There have been 1 day types defined. Day type 1 is valid Fri-01-Jan to Fri-31-Dec, 2010 with 1 periods. Per|Start|Sensing |Actuating | Control law | Data 1 0.00 db temp > flux Sensed temp setpts 2.0 3.0 Match sensed values (ideal:2 setpoints) heating setpt col. no. in tdf 2.00 cooling setpt col. no. in tdf 3.000 .... Zone to contol loop linkages: zone ( 1) zone1 << control 9 ===== Values 2.0 and 3.0 are used here, as column 2 and 3 from the tdfa file has the heating and cooling setpoint values respectively. I run a simulation, but the zone air temperature doesn't matched with the setpoints, and the result is more behaving like using free floating. Wondering whether I have done something wrong? Many thanks. Regards, Denis _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From yamamoto at env.arch.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp Fri Oct 7 08:54:33 2011 From: yamamoto at env.arch.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp (=?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCOzNLXDBsNVcbKEI=?=) Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2011 16:54:33 +0900 Subject: [esp-r] result analysis error Message-ID: Dear All, I am trying to simulate an exercise of mechanical ventilation ( in the CookBook Chapter 13 "PLANT" ), but I have a problem in the result analysis. I created plant components, linked them together and defined containments. I ran the "plant only simulation" and there was no error message. But when I invoked the result analysis module and enter the results file name, there was an error message; At line 832 of file moplnt.F Fortran runtime error : End of record Does anyone know how to solve this problem? I am just a beginner of esp-r and I don't know what to do... Thanks, Kazuhisa Yamamoto /*======================================= Kazuhisa Yamamoto Master's course student Department of Architecture, Graduate School of Engineering, The University of Tokyo MAIL : yamamoto at env.arch.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp =======================================*/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20111007/509ce428/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Fri Oct 7 10:35:01 2011 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2011 10:35:01 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: result analysis error In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA4130195C1747941@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> To help isolate the cause, could you provide information on the version of ESP-r that you are using and the computer operating system you are using. Regards, Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of ???? [yamamoto at env.arch.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp] Sent: 07 October 2011 08:54 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] result analysis error Dear All, I am trying to simulate an exercise of mechanical ventilation ( in the CookBook Chapter 13 "PLANT" ), but I have a problem in the result analysis. I created plant components, linked them together and defined containments. I ran the "plant only simulation" and there was no error message. But when I invoked the result analysis module and enter the results file name, there was an error message; At line 832 of file moplnt.F Fortran runtime error : End of record Does anyone know how to solve this problem? I am just a beginner of esp-r and I don't know what to do... Thanks, Kazuhisa Yamamoto /*======================================= Kazuhisa Yamamoto Master's course student Department of Architecture, Graduate School of Engineering, The University of Tokyo MAIL : yamamoto at env.arch.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp =======================================*/ From yamamoto at env.arch.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp Fri Oct 7 11:21:37 2011 From: yamamoto at env.arch.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp (=?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCOzNLXDBsNVcbKEI=?=) Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2011 19:21:37 +0900 Subject: [esp-r] Re: result analysis error In-Reply-To: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA4130195C1747941@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> References: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA4130195C1747941@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> Message-ID: Dear Jon Thank you for your reply. I am using ESP-r release 11.11 and the operating system is Ubuntu 10.04 LTS -Lucid Lynx- . Best Regards, Kazuhisa 2011?10?7?18:35 Jon Hand : > > To help isolate the cause, could you provide information on the version of > ESP-r > that you are using and the computer operating system you are using. > > Regards, Jon Hand > > ________________________________________ > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] > On Behalf Of ???? [yamamoto at env.arch.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp] > Sent: 07 October 2011 08:54 > To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Subject: [esp-r] result analysis error > > Dear All, > > I am trying to simulate an exercise of mechanical ventilation ( in the > CookBook Chapter 13 "PLANT" ), but I have a problem in the result analysis. > > I created plant components, linked them together and defined containments. > I ran the "plant only simulation" and there was no error message. > But when I invoked the result analysis module and enter the results file > name, there was an error message; > > At line 832 of file moplnt.F > Fortran runtime error : End of record > > Does anyone know how to solve this problem? I am just a beginner of esp-r > and I don't know what to do... > > Thanks, > > Kazuhisa Yamamoto > > > > /*======================================= > Kazuhisa Yamamoto > Master's course student > Department of Architecture, Graduate School of Engineering, > The University of Tokyo > MAIL : yamamoto at env.arch.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp yamamoto at env.arch.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp> > =======================================*/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20111007/541f7b80/attachment.html From simon.borg at strath.ac.uk Fri Oct 7 14:46:02 2011 From: simon.borg at strath.ac.uk (Simon Borg) Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2011 14:46:02 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: result analysis error In-Reply-To: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA4130195C1747941@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> References: , <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA4130195C1747941@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> Message-ID: <44D295EFFE81BF4492C25E87AC1D499701A84B208FB2@E2K7-MS3.ds.strath.ac.uk> Does this problem occur when you invoke the results set or more specifically the psychometric chart within the results test. In the latter case that was a problem I had encountered many times. Not usre whther it was the GTK/X11 version but yes as John said having more info on what tye of system you are using is helpful in detecting the problem. If the results analysis is what you're interested in and it's OK for you to view the results in a seperate file (rather than in ESP itself) you could always view the results by using the HTK facility. Simon ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Jon Hand [jon at esru.strath.ac.uk] Sent: 07 October 2011 10:35 To: ????; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Re: result analysis error To help isolate the cause, could you provide information on the version of ESP-r that you are using and the computer operating system you are using. Regards, Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of ???? [yamamoto at env.arch.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp] Sent: 07 October 2011 08:54 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] result analysis error Dear All, I am trying to simulate an exercise of mechanical ventilation ( in the CookBook Chapter 13 "PLANT" ), but I have a problem in the result analysis. I created plant components, linked them together and defined containments. I ran the "plant only simulation" and there was no error message. But when I invoked the result analysis module and enter the results file name, there was an error message; At line 832 of file moplnt.F Fortran runtime error : End of record Does anyone know how to solve this problem? I am just a beginner of esp-r and I don't know what to do... Thanks, Kazuhisa Yamamoto /*======================================= Kazuhisa Yamamoto Master's course student Department of Architecture, Graduate School of Engineering, The University of Tokyo MAIL : yamamoto at env.arch.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp =======================================*/ _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From simsera1110 at gmail.com Mon Oct 10 03:57:25 2011 From: simsera1110 at gmail.com (simsera1110) Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 11:57:25 +0900 Subject: [esp-r] casual gain (lighting) control sensor Message-ID: Dear. All when I let a sensor for lighting control locate in the room, I am wondering that only one sensor take charge in all of the room. For example, when the depth from window of the room is 5m, If I want to control only the area until 2m from the window, how can I do for that? should I make partition or something like dividing inner and perimeter zone? give me an advise, please. thank you. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20111010/f640eb70/attachment.html From achim.geissler at fhnw.ch Mon Oct 10 10:34:31 2011 From: achim.geissler at fhnw.ch (Geissler Achim) Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 11:34:31 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: casual gain (lighting) control sensor In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0F4309A75967A944A1E3C19469796698E8DC358CE2@MXAMU12.adm.ds.fhnw.ch> Dear Simsera1110 you can define more than one "lighting zone" in the .cgc file. For each lighting zone, you define the percentage of the overall lighting gain of the zone (the sum of all lighting zones should be 100%, of course). So in your example, you could define two sensor positions, e.g. 2 m and 4 m from the fa?ade. You could then give the fa?ade-nearer lighting zone 40% installed power and the back zone 60% of the installed power. Depending on available daylight, each lighting zone will add 0 ... 40% of the installed power and 0 ...60% of the installed power during simulation as internal gain due to lighting. Best Achim P.S.: I would greatly appreciate clear names with information on affiliation - I may refrain from trying to give answers to anonymous requests in the future. Von: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] Im Auftrag von simsera1110 Gesendet: Montag, 10. Oktober 2011 04:57 An: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Betreff: [esp-r] casual gain (lighting) control sensor Dear. All when I let a sensor for lighting control locate in the room, I am wondering that only one sensor take charge in all of the room. For example, when the depth from window of the room is 5m, If I want to control only the area until 2m from the window, how can I do for that? should I make partition or something like dividing inner and perimeter zone? give me an advise, please. thank you. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20111010/bf05054f/attachment.html From hrsantos at gmail.com Tue Oct 11 10:32:06 2011 From: hrsantos at gmail.com (Hugo Santos) Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 10:32:06 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Using calendar day-types to define vacation period. Message-ID: Hi everyone, I'm modelling a school building and after defining everything in the model including internal gains, ventilation network and all control functions I found out that I want to include the effect of closing the school during the summer vacations. In this specific model that means that during that period all days would be similar to "Sundays". Hence, I tried to modify the standard calendar and define all the days of the vacation period as Sundays but that doesn't seem to have any effect on the simulations (I was careful to save the model before closing esp-r). The .cfg file seems to keep the information in the relevant part but reopening the model with esp-r shows that the calendar reverts to the standard day order. Am I missing something? Shouldn't this work? Thanks in advance for all the help. Regards, Hugo Santos Faculty of Engineering of the University of Porto -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20111011/42deff96/attachment.html From achim.geissler at fhnw.ch Tue Oct 11 11:02:42 2011 From: achim.geissler at fhnw.ch (Geissler Achim) Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 12:02:42 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Using calendar day-types to define vacation period. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0F4309A75967A944A1E3C19469796698E8DC3592B8@MXAMU12.adm.ds.fhnw.ch> Hi Hugo I think that you cannot use Sundays consecutively. The "standard" three day types have a range of pre-definitions in various code places. Best add one or more own day types, yourself ("holiday", "bank-holiday" or the like). That works well and you can then define schedules and controls for these additional day types (type four through maximum seven). However, you will probably need to redefine the internal gain files (unlink them from the model before adding day types). Otherwise, you will likely have problems in the editing in project manager. The same goes true for the control files. However, if you are "into" the text editing of these files, then it is quite quick to set up additional days via editing the files directly (with care!). Achim Von: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] Im Auftrag von Hugo Santos Gesendet: Dienstag, 11. Oktober 2011 11:32 An: ESP-r mailing list Betreff: [esp-r] Using calendar day-types to define vacation period. Hi everyone, I'm modelling a school building and after defining everything in the model including internal gains, ventilation network and all control functions I found out that I want to include the effect of closing the school during the summer vacations. In this specific model that means that during that period all days would be similar to "Sundays". Hence, I tried to modify the standard calendar and define all the days of the vacation period as Sundays but that doesn't seem to have any effect on the simulations (I was careful to save the model before closing esp-r). The .cfg file seems to keep the information in the relevant part but reopening the model with esp-r shows that the calendar reverts to the standard day order. Am I missing something? Shouldn't this work? Thanks in advance for all the help. Regards, Hugo Santos Faculty of Engineering of the University of Porto -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20111011/b2a536d7/attachment.html From aizaz.a.samuel at strath.ac.uk Tue Oct 11 11:18:26 2011 From: aizaz.a.samuel at strath.ac.uk (Aizaz Samuel) Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 11:18:26 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] FW: Using calendar day-types to define vacation period. In-Reply-To: <4E9411BA.7080205@strath.ac.uk> References: , <4E9411BA.7080205@strath.ac.uk> Message-ID: ________________________________________ From: Aizaz Samuel [aizaz.a.samuel at strath.ac.uk] Sent: 11 October 2011 10:51 To: hrsantos at gmail.com; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: Re: [esp-r] Using calendar day-types to define vacation period. Hugo, Define a new day type (called 'holiday' say) from the calendar function, then associate the vacation period to this day type. Once you exit from the context menu it will ask you to confirm saving the new day type in operations and control files, choose to save the files. Go into zone operations to view/edit gains and air flows for the new day type and go into controls to view/edit controls. This confirms you have the additional day type. Regards, Aizaz -- --- Dr Aizaz A Samuel Department of Mechanical and Aerospace Engineering University of Strathclyde 324 James Weir Building 75 Montrose Street Glasgow, UK G1 1XJ e: samuel at esru.strath.ac.uk t: +44 141 548 5765 f: +44 141 552 5105 w: www.strath.ac.uk/esru On 11/10/11 10:32, Hugo Santos wrote: > Hi everyone, > > I'm modelling a school building and after defining everything in the > model including internal gains, ventilation network and all control > functions I found out that I want to include the effect of closing the > school during the summer vacations. > > In this specific model that means that during that period all days > would be similar to "Sundays". Hence, I tried to modify the standard > calendar and define all the days of the vacation period as Sundays but > that doesn't seem to have any effect on the simulations (I was careful > to save the model before closing esp-r). The .cfg file seems to keep > the information in the relevant part but reopening the model with > esp-r shows that the calendar reverts to the standard day order. > > Am I missing something? Shouldn't this work? > > Thanks in advance for all the help. Regards, > > Hugo Santos > Faculty of Engineering of the University of Porto From paul at esru.strath.ac.uk Fri Oct 14 11:20:40 2011 From: paul at esru.strath.ac.uk (Paul Strachan) Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2011 11:20:40 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] ESP-r introductory courses Message-ID: <4E980CF8.5090409@esru.strath.ac.uk> Dear All, We've now scheduled two more 2-day introductory courses at ESRU (1st and 2nd December, and 8th and 9th of February). More information at www.esru.strath.ac.uk/training.htm. Regards Paul From hannah.neumann at ise.fraunhofer.de Wed Oct 19 12:47:48 2011 From: hannah.neumann at ise.fraunhofer.de (Hannah Neumann) Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2011 13:47:48 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] thermal mass inside a zone + thickness of walls in geometry Message-ID: <4E9EB8E4.1060900@ise.fraunhofer.de> Dear all, I have got two questions: 1) Is it possible to insert thermal mass into a zone? I would like to exchange the air inside the zone by thermal mass or at least insert thermal mass into the zone and reduce the amount of air inside the zone. If yes, how can it be done? 2) Are the dimensions I define in the geometry-file the inside or the outside dimensions of a room? Means, is the thickness of the walls, that is defined in the construction-file in any way considered in the geometry of the zone? Thank you very much for your help! Best regards, Hannah -- Dipl.-Ing. (FH) Hannah Neumann Division Thermal Systems and Buildings Fraunhofer Institut f?r Solare Energiesysteme ISE Heidenhofstra?e 2, 79110 Freiburg, Germany Phone: +49 (0) 7 61/ 45 88 - 54 31 Fax: +49 (0) 7 61/ 45 88 - 91 32 hannah.neumann at ise.fraunhofer.de www.ise.fraunhofer.de From bjorn.w.jenssen at gmail.com Wed Oct 19 11:48:27 2011 From: bjorn.w.jenssen at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F8rn_W_Jenssen?=) Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2011 12:48:27 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Trouble after installing esp-r on Linux Ubuntu 11.4 Message-ID: Trouble after installing esp-r on Linux Ubuntu 11.4 I get the following error message when trying to run esp-r: wachenfeldtb at wachenfeldtb-Precision-M4600:~/trunk/src$ esp-r & [3] 30873 wachenfeldtb at wachenfeldtb-Precision-M4600:~/trunk/src$ display :0 doesn't know font -*-lucida-medium-r-*-*-10-*-*-*-*-*-*-* ... 2nd choice font 6x12ucida-medium-r-*-*-10-*-*-*-*-*-*-* has not been found so quitting. Does anyone have any idea on what to do to solve this? Best regards, Bj?rn Wachenfeldt Jenssen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20111019/cb86f913/attachment.html From achim.geissler at fhnw.ch Wed Oct 19 17:03:49 2011 From: achim.geissler at fhnw.ch (Geissler Achim) Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2011 18:03:49 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: thermal mass inside a zone + thickness of walls in geometry In-Reply-To: <4E9EB8E4.1060900@ise.fraunhofer.de> References: <4E9EB8E4.1060900@ise.fraunhofer.de> Message-ID: <0F4309A75967A944A1E3C19469796698E8DC5D2A6B@MXAMU12.adm.ds.fhnw.ch> Dear Hannah In regard to (1), yes. You basically have two possible approaches available, IMO: (a) You can hang additional surfaces in the zone, this will add mass according to constructions, however, this will not reduce the air volume in the zone (b) You can make a "zone in a zone", e.g. a protrusion from the floor in the desired dimensions. This will also add mass according to the constructions and it will reduce the air volume. In regard to (2), all dimensions are internal, so no, the thickness of your construction is not taken into account. This is important especially for the calculation of a "equivalent" U-value or for entering thermal bridges - you need to use psi-values derived for internal dimensions, also. Achim -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] Im Auftrag von Hannah Neumann Gesendet: Mittwoch, 19. Oktober 2011 13:48 An: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Betreff: [esp-r] thermal mass inside a zone + thickness of walls in geometry Dear all, I have got two questions: 1) Is it possible to insert thermal mass into a zone? I would like to exchange the air inside the zone by thermal mass or at least insert thermal mass into the zone and reduce the amount of air inside the zone. If yes, how can it be done? 2) Are the dimensions I define in the geometry-file the inside or the outside dimensions of a room? Means, is the thickness of the walls, that is defined in the construction-file in any way considered in the geometry of the zone? Thank you very much for your help! Best regards, Hannah -- Dipl.-Ing. (FH) Hannah Neumann Division Thermal Systems and Buildings Fraunhofer Institut f?r Solare Energiesysteme ISE Heidenhofstra?e 2, 79110 Freiburg, Germany Phone: +49 (0) 7 61/ 45 88 - 54 31 Fax: +49 (0) 7 61/ 45 88 - 91 32 hannah.neumann at ise.fraunhofer.de www.ise.fraunhofer.de _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From achim.geissler at fhnw.ch Wed Oct 19 17:36:52 2011 From: achim.geissler at fhnw.ch (Geissler Achim) Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2011 18:36:52 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: thermal mass inside a zone + thickness of walls in geometry In-Reply-To: <0F4309A75967A944A1E3C19469796698E8DC5D2A6B@MXAMU12.adm.ds.fhnw.ch> References: <4E9EB8E4.1060900@ise.fraunhofer.de> <0F4309A75967A944A1E3C19469796698E8DC5D2A6B@MXAMU12.adm.ds.fhnw.ch> Message-ID: <0F4309A75967A944A1E3C19469796698E8DC5D2A7D@MXAMU12.adm.ds.fhnw.ch> ... on second thought, there is a third possibility, however, I am not sure this is already in the development_branch version of ESP-r and I do not know how you set this up (probably via a flow network): You can fill a zone with water. Achim -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] Im Auftrag von Geissler Achim Gesendet: Mittwoch, 19. Oktober 2011 18:04 An: hannah.neumann at ise.fraunhofer.de; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Betreff: [esp-r] Re: thermal mass inside a zone + thickness of walls in geometry Dear Hannah In regard to (1), yes. You basically have two possible approaches available, IMO: (a) You can hang additional surfaces in the zone, this will add mass according to constructions, however, this will not reduce the air volume in the zone (b) You can make a "zone in a zone", e.g. a protrusion from the floor in the desired dimensions. This will also add mass according to the constructions and it will reduce the air volume. In regard to (2), all dimensions are internal, so no, the thickness of your construction is not taken into account. This is important especially for the calculation of a "equivalent" U-value or for entering thermal bridges - you need to use psi-values derived for internal dimensions, also. Achim -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] Im Auftrag von Hannah Neumann Gesendet: Mittwoch, 19. Oktober 2011 13:48 An: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Betreff: [esp-r] thermal mass inside a zone + thickness of walls in geometry Dear all, I have got two questions: 1) Is it possible to insert thermal mass into a zone? I would like to exchange the air inside the zone by thermal mass or at least insert thermal mass into the zone and reduce the amount of air inside the zone. If yes, how can it be done? 2) Are the dimensions I define in the geometry-file the inside or the outside dimensions of a room? Means, is the thickness of the walls, that is defined in the construction-file in any way considered in the geometry of the zone? Thank you very much for your help! Best regards, Hannah -- Dipl.-Ing. (FH) Hannah Neumann Division Thermal Systems and Buildings Fraunhofer Institut f?r Solare Energiesysteme ISE Heidenhofstra?e 2, 79110 Freiburg, Germany Phone: +49 (0) 7 61/ 45 88 - 54 31 Fax: +49 (0) 7 61/ 45 88 - 91 32 hannah.neumann at ise.fraunhofer.de www.ise.fraunhofer.de _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Wed Oct 19 18:51:37 2011 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2011 18:51:37 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Trouble after installing esp-r on Linux Ubuntu 11.4 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA4130195C2BEBEEC@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> This is a known issue. It has been fixed and I think that it is available in the current development_branch (or will be in the development_branch shortly). It definitely is in the Jon_Hand branch. So best not to use the 'trunk'. Lucida is a font that is no longer distributed with Ubuntu. If you went back to Ubuntu 10.4 there is no problem. -Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Bj?rn W Jenssen [bjorn.w.jenssen at gmail.com] Sent: 19 October 2011 11:48 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Trouble after installing esp-r on Linux Ubuntu 11.4 Trouble after installing esp-r on Linux Ubuntu 11.4 I get the following error message when trying to run esp-r: wachenfeldtb at wachenfeldtb-Precision-M4600:~/trunk/src$ esp-r & [3] 30873 wachenfeldtb at wachenfeldtb-Precision-M4600:~/trunk/src$ display :0 doesn't know font -*-lucida-medium-r-*-*-10-*-*-*-*-*-*-* ... 2nd choice font 6x12ucida-medium-r-*-*-10-*-*-*-*-*-*-* has not been found so quitting. Does anyone have any idea on what to do to solve this? Best regards, Bj?rn Wachenfeldt Jenssen From jrichie.greenroofs at gmail.com Thu Oct 20 16:10:31 2011 From: jrichie.greenroofs at gmail.com (Jordan Richie) Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2011 11:10:31 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] snow and ice on building surfaces Message-ID: Can ESP-r dynamically model snow and ice cover on building surfaces? Thanks Jordan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20111020/f492c29a/attachment.html From C.S.Lee at tue.nl Tue Oct 25 12:53:07 2011 From: C.S.Lee at tue.nl (Lee, C.) Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2011 13:53:07 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Simulation with temporal file Message-ID: Dear all, I'm trying to simulate my model with calculated sky temperature. So I created a temporal file to apply calculated value and associated it in my model, but the result, e.g. roof surface temperature, didn't change anything. I tried another option(SURTM-measured surface temperature) with all zero value and also different model in training>>basic, but the result was the same. Did I miss something? I attached what i created with 'bld_basic' model in training. sample.tdfa======================================== ASCIITDF3 # NWPR NITDF NTSPH itdyear,itdbdoy,itdedoy,columns 20 1 1 1967 37 43 1 # NEXTRC,NEXTCL,NDBSTP 1 2 168 *tdaid1,- *tdaid2,- *items *tag,SAMPLE *type,SKYTMPT *menu,Sky temp: *aide,Sky temp (C) *other, 0 1 *fields, 1 REAL 1 1 0.000 -49.000 49.000 Sky temperature (C): *end_item *pointers 5 *tabular_data # Time Col 1 Col 2 Col 3 Col 4 Col 5 Col 6 Col 7 Col 8... 37.0417,-3.6000 37.0833,-3.8000 37.1250,-4.0000 37.1667,-4.1000 . . . .(so on) .(simulation period : 6 FEB ~ 12 FEB, 1967) *end_tabular_data I attached what i created with 'bld_basic' model in training. bld_basic.cfg ======================================== *tdf ../nets/sample.tdfa # tdf item id, item type, , SAMPLE SKYTMPT ALL ALL * end tdf manage associations =================================== Temporal entities used... ------------------------------------ |Temporal |generic |associated |entity name |type |with zone & surface 1. SAMPLE SKYTMPT ALL ALL ================================================ I got ESP-r from 'ESP-r Central' and installed it with gcc-4.4 in Ubuntu 10.04LTS. Thanks in advance. Kind regards, Chul-sung. From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Tue Oct 25 17:18:53 2011 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2011 17:18:53 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Simulation with temporal file In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA41301B30CF1C8DF@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> The sky temperature option in the temporal file is work-in-progress. It is not yet connected to the solver. We should probably update the documentation to make this clear. It might not take a lot of work to use the data - and no one has yet done it. There are several sky temperatures calculated within ESP-r (there is a trace option in the simulator that will report on these). Currently you would have to alter the source to enable one of the alternative sky temperature methods. The SURTM is design to allow you to plot/report measured values so that it is easier to compare them with simulated values. The simulator does not use SURTM items. The results analysis module knows how to include them in reports or graphs. It looks like we need to revise the help messages further to make this clear. Surface temperatures are the result of heat flows (the energy balance at each surface) rather than an input value. If you have specific sky temperature data do you have matching dry bulb and humidity data? Regards, Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Lee, C. [C.S.Lee at tue.nl] Sent: 25 October 2011 12:53 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Simulation with temporal file Dear all, I'm trying to simulate my model with calculated sky temperature. So I created a temporal file to apply calculated value and associated it in my model, but the result, e.g. roof surface temperature, didn't change anything. I tried another option(SURTM-measured surface temperature) with all zero value and also different model in training>>basic, but the result was the same. Did I miss something? I attached what i created with 'bld_basic' model in training. sample.tdfa======================================== ASCIITDF3 # NWPR NITDF NTSPH itdyear,itdbdoy,itdedoy,columns 20 1 1 1967 37 43 1 # NEXTRC,NEXTCL,NDBSTP 1 2 168 *tdaid1,- *tdaid2,- *items *tag,SAMPLE *type,SKYTMPT *menu,Sky temp: *aide,Sky temp (C) *other, 0 1 *fields, 1 REAL 1 1 0.000 -49.000 49.000 Sky temperature (C): *end_item *pointers 5 *tabular_data # Time Col 1 Col 2 Col 3 Col 4 Col 5 Col 6 Col 7 Col 8... 37.0417,-3.6000 37.0833,-3.8000 37.1250,-4.0000 37.1667,-4.1000 . . . .(so on) .(simulation period : 6 FEB ~ 12 FEB, 1967) *end_tabular_data I attached what i created with 'bld_basic' model in training. bld_basic.cfg ======================================== *tdf ../nets/sample.tdfa # tdf item id, item type, , SAMPLE SKYTMPT ALL ALL * end tdf manage associations =================================== Temporal entities used... ------------------------------------ |Temporal |generic |associated |entity name |type |with zone & surface 1. SAMPLE SKYTMPT ALL ALL ================================================ I got ESP-r from 'ESP-r Central' and installed it with gcc-4.4 in Ubuntu 10.04LTS. Thanks in advance. Kind regards, Chul-sung. _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From dimitrios.sfakianakis at strath.ac.uk Tue Oct 25 15:37:33 2011 From: dimitrios.sfakianakis at strath.ac.uk (Dimitrios Sfakianakis) Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2011 15:37:33 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Modelling a zone containing liquid Message-ID: <44D295EFFE81BF4492C25E87AC1D499701AF7B1A5FAF@E2K7-MS3.ds.strath.ac.uk> Hi, I am trying to model a zone that is in contact with a tank containing fuel oil. In the last release notes of Esp-r I read that modelling zones containing fluids is now possible. I downloaded and compiled the source code from the development branch however I can't seem to find how I can make this happen. Can anyone help me? Kind regards, - Dimitris Sfakianakis -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20111025/9a78ac74/attachment.html From achim.geissler at fhnw.ch Wed Oct 26 07:44:09 2011 From: achim.geissler at fhnw.ch (Geissler Achim) Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2011 08:44:09 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: snow and ice on building surfaces In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0F4309A75967A944A1E3C19469796698E8DC7DF0F1@MXAMU12.adm.ds.fhnw.ch> Hi Jordan not out-of-the-box, as far as I am aware. However, there is an "evaporative surface" model available (category "special materials") which would likely give a good starting point for an extension of ESP-r (such an extension would of course require having a model for what you need, additional data (snow, this could possibly be handled by the "temporal data file" structure) and compiling). Achim Von: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] Im Auftrag von Jordan Richie Gesendet: Donnerstag, 20. Oktober 2011 17:11 An: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Betreff: [esp-r] snow and ice on building surfaces Can ESP-r dynamically model snow and ice cover on building surfaces? Thanks Jordan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20111026/dec72a57/attachment.html From achim.geissler at fhnw.ch Wed Oct 26 07:49:45 2011 From: achim.geissler at fhnw.ch (Geissler Achim) Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2011 08:49:45 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Modelling a zone containing liquid In-Reply-To: <44D295EFFE81BF4492C25E87AC1D499701AF7B1A5FAF@E2K7-MS3.ds.strath.ac.uk> References: <44D295EFFE81BF4492C25E87AC1D499701AF7B1A5FAF@E2K7-MS3.ds.strath.ac.uk> Message-ID: <0F4309A75967A944A1E3C19469796698E8DC7DF105@MXAMU12.adm.ds.fhnw.ch> Hi Dimitris as far as I know, you need to set up a flow network. In this, you can define the fluid type. Actually, the code is from ESRU ... Hopefully somebody on the list that has actually used this feature can give a short "how-to-set-this-up" recipe! Achim Von: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] Im Auftrag von Dimitrios Sfakianakis Gesendet: Dienstag, 25. Oktober 2011 16:38 An: 'esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk' Betreff: [esp-r] Modelling a zone containing liquid Hi, I am trying to model a zone that is in contact with a tank containing fuel oil. In the last release notes of Esp-r I read that modelling zones containing fluids is now possible. I downloaded and compiled the source code from the development branch however I can't seem to find how I can make this happen. Can anyone help me? Kind regards, - Dimitris Sfakianakis -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20111026/af00e328/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Wed Oct 26 09:13:14 2011 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2011 09:13:14 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Modelling a zone containing liquid In-Reply-To: <0F4309A75967A944A1E3C19469796698E8DC7DF105@MXAMU12.adm.ds.fhnw.ch> References: <44D295EFFE81BF4492C25E87AC1D499701AF7B1A5FAF@E2K7-MS3.ds.strath.ac.uk>, <0F4309A75967A944A1E3C19469796698E8DC7DF105@MXAMU12.adm.ds.fhnw.ch> Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA41301B30CF1C8E6@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> Could you tell us more about what you are trying to model? What thermophysical issues are of interest? For example, is the tank fully surrounded by the room or just along one wall? Is the fluid in the tank at a different temperature than the room? For example a cold tank might impact comfort for occupants in the room? If you need to represent something that is massive and has a substantial surface area then you might be able to make the walls of the tank out of layers of material that approximates the mass of the tank. If you need to represent heat exchange between a tank at 12C and a room at 20C then the tank can be a zone within a zone with its temperature controlled to 12C. -Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Geissler Achim [achim.geissler at fhnw.ch] Sent: 26 October 2011 07:49 To: Dimitrios Sfakianakis; 'esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk' Subject: [esp-r] Re: Modelling a zone containing liquid Hi Dimitris as far as I know, you need to set up a flow network. In this, you can define the fluid type. Actually, the code is from ESRU ? Hopefully somebody on the list that has actually used this feature can give a short "how-to-set-this-up" recipe! Achim Von: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] Im Auftrag von Dimitrios Sfakianakis Gesendet: Dienstag, 25. Oktober 2011 16:38 An: 'esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk' Betreff: [esp-r] Modelling a zone containing liquid Hi, I am trying to model a zone that is in contact with a tank containing fuel oil. In the last release notes of Esp-r I read that modelling zones containing fluids is now possible. I downloaded and compiled the source code from the development branch however I can?t seem to find how I can make this happen. Can anyone help me? Kind regards, - Dimitris Sfakianakis From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Wed Oct 26 09:27:05 2011 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2011 09:27:05 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Simulation with temporal file, clarification of SURTM items Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA41301B30CF1C8E8@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> I will attempt to explain the idea of SURTM again. If you have an physical experiment and a virtual experiment (simulation) it is often useful to compare specific temperatures in the experiment with their equivalent in the simulation model. SURTM items hold timestep measured data. In the results analysis tool you can plot the simulated surface temperature and also ask to plot the measured data held in the SURTM temporal item. You could also use res module statistics functions on the SURTM data. The graph showing different sky temperature measurement was very interesting. It looks like you (or your group) might have an interest in completing the implementation of the sky temperature temporal file link. -Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: Lee, C. [C.S.Lee at tue.nl] Sent: 25 October 2011 19:57 To: Jon Hand Subject: RE: Simulation with temporal file Dear John, Thank you for your answer. With SURTM option, I assigned all zero value at 's_roof' in bld_basic and I compared the same 's_ roof' temperature. Maybe my program has some problems. I'll try it again. ----------------------------------- Yes, It is the calculated data from measured clouded fraction, air temperature and water vapor pressure. I am modeling greenhouse in The Netherlands and I found that sky temperature is a critical factor for thermal environment in low-rise and huge roof surface greenhouse. There is a greenhouse simulation program - KASPRO and they did empirical validation test with real greenhouse. I compared ESP-r air temperature in simple greenhouse simulation model with KASPRO and I found the air temperature is quite sensitive depending on sky temperature. They offered me KASPRO weather data -they said 'measured'- and I made ESP-r weather file from it, but the simulation result was different without consideration of cloudiness especially at night. That's why I tried to use sky temperature option in ESP-r. I attached a comparison result with different sky models in ESP-r and KASPRO They said they calculated it based on Monteith's empirical research; 1. An empirical method for estimating long wave radiation exchange in the Britsh Isles. 2. Principle of Environmental physics. Kind regards, Chul-sung. -----Original Message----- From: Jon Hand [mailto:jon at esru.strath.ac.uk] Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2011 6:19 PM To: Lee, C.; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: RE: Simulation with temporal file The sky temperature option in the temporal file is work-in-progress. It is not yet connected to the solver. We should probably update the documentation to make this clear. It might not take a lot of work to use the data - and no one has yet done it. There are several sky temperatures calculated within ESP-r (there is a trace option in the simulator that will report on these). Currently you would have to alter the source to enable one of the alternative sky temperature methods. The SURTM is design to allow you to plot/report measured values so that it is easier to compare them with simulated values. The simulator does not use SURTM items. The results analysis module knows how to include them in reports or graphs. It looks like we need to revise the help messages further to make this clear. Surface temperatures are the result of heat flows (the energy balance at each surface) rather than an input value. If you have specific sky temperature data do you have matching dry bulb and humidity data? Regards, Jon Hand From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Thu Oct 27 09:06:37 2011 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2011 09:06:37 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] call for user contributed plant component notes and tips Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA41301BBD7F5D77E@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> Call for plant component notes and tips 26 October - Jon Hand Plant component selection and use will benefit from access to information about the use, attributes and performance reporting of plant components. We want to capture the experience of the community to improve the documentation. Users planning networks need to quickly identify the most suitable components (especially where there are similar components). They will be interested in what the component can usefully represent, its typical place in a network, other components is it known to work well with and exemplars that demonstrate its use. Hints about sensitivities of the component, techniques for extracting and transforming manufacturers information into attributes and testing correct deployment would also be valuable. Below is an example. Following that is a template which you could use as a starting point for discussing a component which you are familiar with. The words and phrases are important, format is not important as we will be transforming contributions into context help and tutorials. If there are some points you do not feel you can complete in the template perhaps others will - so this is the initial stage of an iterative process. And, if you have a plant network that could form a good exemplar for the use of and for showing the relations between components then lets find a way to get that embedded in the exemplars. Please send your contributions, comments and model suggestions to me so that we can begin to address the learning curve for plant systems. Regards, Jon Hand, ESRU, Glasgow Scotland jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Example: Component: AC duct (60) represents a portion of a duct system e.g. between a fan and an outlet grill or between a damper and a fan. Depending on where it is placed in the model heat flows through the duct walls can impact the inside air temperature and warnings will be issued if condensation is likely during the simulation. You are asked to supply the mass of the duct (kg), its average specific heat (J/kgK), its UA (W/K), Hydraulic diameter (m), cross sectional face area (m^2) and length (m). Some users will prefer to match this with specific components in their building and others to use ducts abstractly, e.g. only roughly indicate length and UA, and omit containment data. The psychometric state of the duct is available via the standard results analysis tool. Simulation trace includes intermediate calculation data which may aid in debugging. If you will be using lots of ducts within the network, carefully consider a naming strategy which will make it easy to reference drawings and planning sketches. AC ducts can be found in many of the exemplar models. The systems+control -> detailed mechanical ventilation system includes several ducts. Template for contributing text about a specific component: Component name: __ This component is designed to represent __. It is typically used in [low/high] resolution models in conjunction with component __. In comparison with component __ it offers the following facilities?.. It is typically used with component __ as a __ A good example of the use of this component can be found in exemplar __. It tracks the following performance issues __ & __. It has the following descriptive attributes: a) ?. b) ?. c) ?.. Hints: Be sure to match attribute __ with data from the manufacturer. For example __. Performance is sensitive to changes in attribute __. The upper range of __ should not be exceeded. In terms of containment the component is [sensitive/insensitive] to changes in zone conditions. Typical controls applied to this component are __ Do not use this with a __ controller. This component requires a [short, very short] time-step. From A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk Fri Oct 28 11:25:44 2011 From: A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk (A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk) Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2011 10:25:44 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Probabilistic weather files In-Reply-To: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA4130195C17478E3@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> References: , <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C1215F892F12@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA4130195C17478E3@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> Message-ID: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C1215F8A4EE7@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> HI Jon, thank you for that. I am looking at the cookbook and I have generated the block file for my new climate file so they are both into /esp-r/climate. I have edited the climate list file by pasting the block into the climate list. The newly created file is now into my standard climate data base but when I open it I receive an error message saying that there is nothing in the file. In the cookbook you say: don't forget to copy your newly created climate file to the standard folder. What do you mean by that? Is there anything else I have to do? What the problem may be? Please let me know, thank you in advance, kind regards. Arianna -----Original Message----- From: Jon Hand [mailto:jon at esru.strath.ac.uk] Sent: 23 September 2011 10:39 To: Sdei Arianna; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: RE: Probabilistic weather files About EPW files. Some new EPW files have long names for locations and older versions of ESP-r clm module faulted when reading them. Make sure you are using the version 11.11 of ESP-r. If you need an up-to-date Native Windows Installer let me know and I will send you a link. The files on the ESRU download page are a bit out of date. Many people put project climate files in the model dbs folder. The reference in the model cfg file then takes the form ../dbs/filename. As for working with lots of files - the clm module can be driven to convert EPW files to ESP-r file via command line arguments. The missing step is that to get climate files to show up in the list presented within the project manager you need to include information in the 'climatelist' file. The ESP-r Cookbook (Dec 2010 version) discusses this process. If you want to work with thousands of climate files we might need to resize some arrays in ESP-r. -Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk [A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk] Sent: 22 September 2011 21:44 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Probabilistic weather files Dear All, I am importing some probabilistic weather files from the Prometheus project (University of Exeter) into ESP-r has anyone tried to use these files with ESP-r before? I am importing the current EPW files into ASCII binary from the climate db screen. The process is sometimes working and some other times not. I don't know exactly what the problem is. I would like to know if I can create a folder that contains these weather files either in my model folder or in the climate data base and if I can reload automatically these new climate files that I am creating from one of these locations. I appreciate any suggestion, thank you in advance. Arianna Sdei ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Tue Nov 1 07:55:45 2011 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 07:55:45 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Status report on ESP-r forum at IPBSA conference Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA41301BBD7F5D79D@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> ESP-r Community Forum Monday 14 November 2011 19h00-21h00 1 November status report During the IBPSA conference the ESP-r community of users and developers are getting together on the Monday evening of the conference. We also want to welcome those who would like to find out more about ESP-r and open-source approaches to simulation software development. This will be a great opportunity to hear from several key players in the community, find out about recent developments and a taste about current and planned uses of ESP-r. We are especially interested in discovering issues relevant to the Pacific Rim. There will be a mix of Asian and Mediterranean food available - to ensure adequate supplies we need to know by 9 November. We are asking participants to contribute 15 $A to cover costs. The bar in the hotel is close by for those who want more lubrication?.. Please respond to Jon Hand (jon at esru.strath.ac.uk) with you name and contact information. If you know others who might like to join in please forward! Forum Activities: Welcome by Jon Hand of ESRU Remarks from Professor Joe Clarke of ESRU (the original author of ESP-r) Remarks from Ian Beausoleil-Morrison (the ESP-r archivist) Overview of ESP-r capabilities Report on recent ESP-r developments at the University of Strathclyde Reports from Pieter-Jan Hoes & Roel Loonen at Eindhoven University of Technology on coupling ESP-r with a building controls virtual test bed. Report from Kyunghun Woo at Samsung Construction in Seoul on recent efforts to embed simulation in their working practices. Reports from other participants Preview of new formats for simulation training and an open forum on future needs for training, developer support and practitioner support. Open forum to explore simulation demands and opportunities around the Pacific Rim. Open forum on enabling open source simulation tool use in Pacific Rim markets dominated by proprietary tools. Question and answer session followed by networking (until they kick us out)?. Arrange post-conference workshops or mentoring related to coding, ESP-r use or problems with your models if there is interest. From jeremy.schembri at gmail.com Sun Nov 6 22:00:12 2011 From: jeremy.schembri at gmail.com (Jeremy Schembri) Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2011 17:00:12 -0500 Subject: [esp-r] Active/operable shading help Message-ID: Hello, I'm rather new to ESP-r and have been struggling to find a way to implement active/operable shading. I want to put a feature in my model where the amount of shading over a window reacts to external parameters such as the outside temperature, inside temperature and solar radiation. An example of active shading would be when the building is overheating, the shades will increase and block out the sun. The opposite condition would exist when the building is cool and the Sun is shinning, the amount of shading would decrease to allow more solar gains. Does anyone know if this feature exists in ESP-r or how to make it work? Currently I have several models with different level of shades and alternate models using bash scripts in Linux. It's a quick fix but doesn't work the way I want. Any help would be appreciated. Jeremy From achim.geissler at fhnw.ch Mon Nov 7 09:46:57 2011 From: achim.geissler at fhnw.ch (Geissler Achim) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 10:46:57 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Active/operable shading help In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0F4309A75967A944A1E3C19469796698E8DCAD281C@MXAMU12.adm.ds.fhnw.ch> Hi Jeremy basically, you have two options: You can define up to three optical data property sets for a conventional TMC and switch between these via control (solar radiation for sure, zone temperature also, as far as I remember). How this is set up is described in the CookBook, I think. Alternatively, you can use CFC constructions for your windows and also control the shading (venetian type blind) setting for these (IMO the preferable path). However, the latter option has only a few control features to date in the official release version of ESP-r. But if you are willing to do a bit of coding and are set up to compile ESP-r, changes/extensions are quite straightforward (there is a pointer to where in the code changes are necessary in the list archive). Best Achim (by the way, what is your affiliation?) -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] Im Auftrag von Jeremy Schembri Gesendet: Sonntag, 6. November 2011 23:00 An: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Betreff: [esp-r] Active/operable shading help Hello, I'm rather new to ESP-r and have been struggling to find a way to implement active/operable shading. I want to put a feature in my model where the amount of shading over a window reacts to external parameters such as the outside temperature, inside temperature and solar radiation. An example of active shading would be when the building is overheating, the shades will increase and block out the sun. The opposite condition would exist when the building is cool and the Sun is shinning, the amount of shading would decrease to allow more solar gains. Does anyone know if this feature exists in ESP-r or how to make it work? Currently I have several models with different level of shades and alternate models using bash scripts in Linux. It's a quick fix but doesn't work the way I want. Any help would be appreciated. Jeremy _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From dimitrios.sfakianakis at strath.ac.uk Mon Nov 7 13:08:18 2011 From: dimitrios.sfakianakis at strath.ac.uk (Dimitrios Sfakianakis) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 13:08:18 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Stratified tank with 1 HX Message-ID: <44D295EFFE81BF4492C25E87AC1D499701B887571F08@E2K7-MS3.ds.strath.ac.uk> Dear all, While trying to understand how the "stratified tank with 1 HX" component works I came across a reference for relevant documentation "DEVELOPMENT OF A STRATIFIED TANK MODEL IN ESP-R: MODEL SUMMARY, by Didier Thevenard (April 2007). Available from CANMET Energy Technology Centre, Natural Resources Canada, Government of Canada". Is this document publicly available? I searched on CANMET website and ESRU related publications but didn't find anything. Kind regards, - Dimitrios Sfakianakis MEng PhD Student, Dept. Mechanical & Aerospace Engineering, University of Strathclyde Room 216, Henry Dyer Building, 100 Montrose St, Glasgow, G4 0LZ T: +44 (0) 141 548 4587 (Ext 4587) M: +44 07514271592 E: dimitrios.sfakianakis at strath.ac.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20111107/987951b8/attachment.html From francesco.frontini at polimi.it Wed Nov 9 15:31:12 2011 From: francesco.frontini at polimi.it (Francesco Frontini) Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 16:31:12 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Active/operable shading help Message-ID: Dear Jeremy other option is to use the so called BlackBox Model implemented in ESP-r. This model uses Bidirectional date to describe the optical properties of your facade (like the g-value, the transmission). You can find this option in the "Advanced Optics" menu. You can choose between Two controls types: Method a: it uses the ?standard? control algorithm as the ?zone control? in ESP-r (i.e. you can change your blind position according to a defined incident irradiation or according to the outdoor temperature. Method b: it uses the predefined .tdfa file. More information can be found in: F. Frontini, T.E. Kuhn, S. Herkel, P. Strachan, G. Kokogiannakis, Implementation of a new bi-directional solar modelling method for complex fa?ades within the ESP-r building simulation program and its application, Proceedings of the 11th International IBPSA Conference, 2009. Glasgow and Tilmann E. Kuhn, Sebastian Herkel, Francesco Frontini, Paul Strachan, Georgios Kokogiannakis, Solar control: A general method for modelling of solar gains through complex facades in building simulation programs, Energy and Buildings, Volume 43, Issue 1, January 2011, Pages 19-27, ISSN 0378-7788 or you can contact me directly. Regards Francesco _______________________________________________ University of Applied Sciences and Arts of Southern Switzerland (SUPSI) Departement for Environment Construction and Design (DACD) Institute for Applied Sustainability to the Built Environment (ISAAC) Dr. Eng. Francesco Frontini Head of BIPV group Researcher Campus Trevano CH-6952 Canobbio T +41 (0)58 666 63 20 F +41 (0)58 666 63 49 francesco.frontini at supsi.ch www.isaac.supsi.ch www.bipv.ch From achim.geissler at fhnw.ch Fri Nov 11 08:39:50 2011 From: achim.geissler at fhnw.ch (Geissler Achim) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 09:39:50 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Active/operable shading help In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0F4309A75967A944A1E3C19469796698E8DCB948D5@MXAMU12.adm.ds.fhnw.ch> Dear Francesco is there a viable data generation method for this model available, in the meantime (or is there a growing selection of data sets for "typical" constructions available)? The problem with the availability of the very detailed data necessary is why this otherwise very good option seems to always slip my mind ... Thanks, best Achim -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] Im Auftrag von Francesco Frontini Gesendet: Mittwoch, 9. November 2011 16:31 An: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Cc: francesco.frontini at supsi.ch Betreff: [esp-r] Re: Active/operable shading help Dear Jeremy other option is to use the so called BlackBox Model implemented in ESP-r. This model uses Bidirectional date to describe the optical properties of your facade (like the g-value, the transmission). You can find this option in the "Advanced Optics" menu. You can choose between Two controls types: Method a: it uses the "standard" control algorithm as the "zone control" in ESP-r (i.e. you can change your blind position according to a defined incident irradiation or according to the outdoor temperature. Method b: it uses the predefined .tdfa file. More information can be found in: F. Frontini, T.E. Kuhn, S. Herkel, P. Strachan, G. Kokogiannakis, Implementation of a new bi-directional solar modelling method for complex fa?ades within the ESP-r building simulation program and its application, Proceedings of the 11th International IBPSA Conference, 2009. Glasgow and Tilmann E. Kuhn, Sebastian Herkel, Francesco Frontini, Paul Strachan, Georgios Kokogiannakis, Solar control: A general method for modelling of solar gains through complex facades in building simulation programs, Energy and Buildings, Volume 43, Issue 1, January 2011, Pages 19-27, ISSN 0378-7788 or you can contact me directly. Regards Francesco _______________________________________________ University of Applied Sciences and Arts of Southern Switzerland (SUPSI) Departement for Environment Construction and Design (DACD) Institute for Applied Sustainability to the Built Environment (ISAAC) Dr. Eng. Francesco Frontini Head of BIPV group Researcher Campus Trevano CH-6952 Canobbio T +41 (0)58 666 63 20 F +41 (0)58 666 63 49 francesco.frontini at supsi.ch www.isaac.supsi.ch www.bipv.ch _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From Gunter.Pueltz at MuellerBBM.de Fri Nov 11 09:26:57 2011 From: Gunter.Pueltz at MuellerBBM.de (Pueltz, Gunter) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 10:26:57 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] increasing the number of control-periods on weekdays Message-ID: <324E563ADB028A4CAF79CE7CD1941A20B59C38@s-muc-ex02.mbbm-group.com> Dear Collegues, for the simulation of a special type of natural ventilation (every hour a short time (ca. 5 min) very intensive natural ventilation by completely opened window, than a long period (ca. 55 min) with closed window resp. no ventilation = pulsed (?) natural ventilation) I need more than 12 periods at weekday for the mass flow control function (which controls the window opening). Currently in the standard ESP-r version 11.11 the number of control periods at weekday is limited to 12. How can I increase this limitation ? regards, gunter -- Dr. Gunter P?ltz M?ller-BBM GmbH Robert-Koch-Stra?e 11 82152 Planegg Telefon +49(89)85602-336 Telefax +49(89)85602-111 E-Mail Gunter.Pueltz at MuellerBBM.de http://www.MuellerBBM.de HRB M?nchen 86143 Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Horst Christian Gass, Dr. Carl-Christian Hantschk, Stefan Schierer, Dr. Edwin Schorer, Norbert Suritsch From ingfimo at gmail.com Fri Nov 11 11:58:23 2011 From: ingfimo at gmail.com (Filippo Monari) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 11:58:23 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] problem glazing sensitivity Message-ID: Hi everybody, I'm trying to make some sensitivity study on glazing components, changing the features of the appropriate optical set and runnings several simulation. In particular I'm focusing on the direct transmission, giving to it a variation of +-10%. Well looking to the results (zone temperatures and solar processes) I find out that the model doesn't react to my changes, which does not make sens... So I'd like to know if there is some e particular parameter to set in order to link the optical set to construction component. I have seen there's a control option in the construction menu relative to a zone but I wasn't able to work out with it. Any suggestion? Thank you in advance, Filippo -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20111111/2c6cbdb7/attachment.html From achim.geissler at fhnw.ch Fri Nov 11 13:05:40 2011 From: achim.geissler at fhnw.ch (Geissler Achim) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 14:05:40 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: problem glazing sensitivity In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0F4309A75967A944A1E3C19469796698E8DCB94AA4@MXAMU12.adm.ds.fhnw.ch> Dear Filippo I am not quite sure I have understood how your actual approach is, but here some hints / suggestions. Yes, your optical data set must be "called" by your MLC of type TRAN. To change the solar transmission (I assume you mean by "direct"), you need to change all five values for the angles of incidence considered. Depending on the properties of the glazing system, you should probably also change the solar absorption of at least the main absorbing layer. You can do this quite automatically via scripting if you are using a Cygwin / Unix type of platform. Attached (if it goes through the list) is an example script which could be used like this (this exchanges the solar absorption values in the glazing data base of optical data set 10, layer 3): ======================== OCON=10 OLAY=3 # Solar absorption values for the layer of interest DATA1="1.000 0.762 0.743 0.743 0.735 0.731" DATA2="1.000 0.821 0.854 0.852 0.849 0.846" TRANLIST="DATA1 DATA2" ... # Run simulation cases for TRN in $TRANLIST do case $TRN in DATA1) ODAT=$DATA1;; DATA2) ODAT=$DATA2;; esac # set solar absorption for blind-and-glazing . ./set_optics-props.sh $VAR.cfg $OCON $OLAY $ODAT ... ========================== Achim Von: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] Im Auftrag von Filippo Monari Gesendet: Freitag, 11. November 2011 12:58 An: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Betreff: [esp-r] problem glazing sensitivity Hi everybody, I'm trying to make some sensitivity study on glazing components, changing the features of the appropriate optical set and runnings several simulation. In particular I'm focusing on the direct transmission, giving to it a variation of +-10%. Well looking to the results (zone temperatures and solar processes) I find out that the model doesn't react to my changes, which does not make sens... So I'd like to know if there is some e particular parameter to set in order to link the optical set to construction component. I have seen there's a control option in the construction menu relative to a zone but I wasn't able to work out with it. Any suggestion? Thank you in advance, Filippo -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20111111/dea39f8a/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: set_optics-props.sh Type: application/octet-stream Size: 637 bytes Desc: set_optics-props.sh Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20111111/dea39f8a/attachment.obj From Gunter.Pueltz at MuellerBBM.de Fri Nov 11 15:29:26 2011 From: Gunter.Pueltz at MuellerBBM.de (Pueltz, Gunter) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 16:29:26 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] definition of a CO2-source Message-ID: <324E563ADB028A4CAF79CE7CD1941A20B59C3E@s-muc-ex02.mbbm-group.com> Dear Collegues, I want to simulate a contaminant (CO2) in a room, which shows a certain occupant regime. Using the source type 6 - personal CO2-emission - I am getting much toooo high CO2-concentrations :-(((( Thus I want to define a constant CO2-source - but only during occupancy ... (this is something like a combination of source type 5 and 6, or ?) Can anyone tell me how to do this ? regards, gunter -- Dr. Gunter P?ltz M?ller-BBM GmbH Robert-Koch-Stra?e 11 82152 Planegg Telefon +49(89)85602-336 Telefax +49(89)85602-111 E-Mail Gunter.Pueltz at MuellerBBM.de http://www.MuellerBBM.de HRB M?nchen 86143 Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Horst Christian Gass, Dr. Carl-Christian Hantschk, Stefan Schierer, Dr. Edwin Schorer, Norbert Suritsch From laydzc at nottingham.ac.uk Mon Nov 21 18:51:52 2011 From: laydzc at nottingham.ac.uk (Ziwei Chen) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 18:51:52 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] PCM model Message-ID: <2AF59D44D11AA5439CE1DB59332DAB5C32DB756DD6@EXCHANGE2.ad.nottingham.ac.uk> Dear ESP-r users, I am now trying to investigate the effect of integrating Phase Change Materials into the building envelope for a telecommunication station. According to the tutorial document, the PCM locates in the active material code file. I have got the specification data of the PCM that will be used for my investigation. But I am not sure about how to integrate PCM into the building envelope. Do I need to redefine the building construction and then define the PCM? Or I just add the PCM into the building construction through the active material file? Could anyone help me solve it? Thanks a lot. AnnThis message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it. Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment. Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. From achim.geissler at fhnw.ch Tue Nov 22 07:17:06 2011 From: achim.geissler at fhnw.ch (Geissler Achim) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 08:17:06 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: PCM model In-Reply-To: <2AF59D44D11AA5439CE1DB59332DAB5C32DB756DD6@EXCHANGE2.ad.nottingham.ac.uk> References: <2AF59D44D11AA5439CE1DB59332DAB5C32DB756DD6@EXCHANGE2.ad.nottingham.ac.uk> Message-ID: <0F4309A75967A944A1E3C19469796698E8DCD97676@MXAMU12.adm.ds.fhnw.ch> Dear Ziwei Chen it is the latter. You define which node of which layer of the construction of which surface of your zone has the PCM in the active materials file. Best Achim -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] Im Auftrag von Ziwei Chen Gesendet: Montag, 21. November 2011 19:52 An: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Betreff: [esp-r] PCM model Dear ESP-r users, I am now trying to investigate the effect of integrating Phase Change Materials into the building envelope for a telecommunication station. According to the tutorial document, the PCM locates in the active material code file. I have got the specification data of the PCM that will be used for my investigation. But I am not sure about how to integrate PCM into the building envelope. Do I need to redefine the building construction and then define the PCM? Or I just add the PCM into the building construction through the active material file? Could anyone help me solve it? Thanks a lot. AnnThis message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it. Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment. Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From jglazer at gard.com Sat Nov 26 23:16:54 2011 From: jglazer at gard.com (Jason Glazer) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 17:16:54 -0600 Subject: [esp-r] Call for Members - SPC 209 Energy Simulation Aided Design for Buildings Except Low-Rise Residential Buildings Message-ID: <4ED17366.5080602@gard.com> Last May, as part of a long thread of discussions on the BLDG-SIM mailing list (under the subject "Energy Model Cost") I brought up the idea that ASHRAE should create a new standard related to building energy simulation. A lot has happened since then, after a few conference calls, some presentations to various ASHRAE committees, and many revisions of the title purpose and scope, it looks like the new ASHRAE Standard 209 is going to be written. The approved title purpose and scope is: TITLE: Energy Simulation Aided Design for Buildings Except Low-Rise Residential Buildings PURPOSE: Define minimum requirements for providing energy design assistance using building energy simulation and analysis. SCOPE: This standard applies to new buildings or major renovations of, or additions to, existing buildings utilizing energy simulation during the design process. This standard does not apply to single-family houses, multi-family structures of three stories or fewer above grade, manufactured houses (mobile homes) and modular homes. At this point, the new committee is looking for members. Attached is the call for members. If you are interested in joining, please complete the form "Application for Individual Project Committee Membership" (and related forms) found on: http://www.ashrae.org/technology/page/97 If you can think of anyone else that might be interested, feel free to forward this email to them. My apologies for cross-posting to so many simulation oriented mailing list. Thanks, Jason -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: SANovember112011.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 68921 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20111126/809bb831/attachment-0001.pdf From S.Nikoofard at DAL.CA Sun Nov 27 23:18:49 2011 From: S.Nikoofard at DAL.CA (Sara Nikoofard) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 19:18:49 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] ESP-r installation Message-ID: <20111127191849.79376l4jkjobgtoo@wm1.dal.ca> Hi All, I want to install ESP-r on a cluster which is 64 bit and the OS is Red hat Linux. I don't need the graphic interface, since I am doing batch simulation. Will I encounter any problem or esp-r works fine on 64 bit as well? Also, when I install the esp-r with the following command, it can't find gcc-4.1: ./Install -d ~/esru --gcc4 --compiler_version -4.1 and installation abort with fatal error. However, as soon as I omit the compiler_version one ESP-r installs. I know that the cluster has gcc4 compiler on it version 4.1.2. The question is, can I just specify --gcc4 and not the compiler_version? is that work properly? Thanks, ----- Sara Nikoofard Room C254A, Department of Mechanical Engineering, Dalhousie University, Halifax, NS Phone: (902)494-3165 email: s.nikoofard at dal.ca From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Mon Nov 28 10:26:39 2011 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 10:26:39 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: ESP-r installation In-Reply-To: <20111127191849.79376l4jkjobgtoo@wm1.dal.ca> References: <20111127191849.79376l4jkjobgtoo@wm1.dal.ca> Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA41301BCC4BB06FA@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> The Install script can tell you about additional options if you use the --help option. If there is only one version of the GNU compilers on the compute server then there is probably a pointer from gcc to gcc-4.1. And the server will also need to find a matching gfortran-4.1 version and a g++-4.1 versions. You do not mention exactly what the fatal error is, but it might be related to not locating a matching gfortran or g++. If there is no error when you omit the --compiler_version directive then you are probably ok. And to speed things up you should include --reuse_ish_calcs in the command line. ESP-r should be ok on a 64 bit RH enterprise computer (or the equivalent CentOS distribution) when running in text mode. -Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Sara Nikoofard [S.Nikoofard at DAL.CA] Sent: 27 November 2011 23:18 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] ESP-r installation Hi All, I want to install ESP-r on a cluster which is 64 bit and the OS is Red hat Linux. I don't need the graphic interface, since I am doing batch simulation. Will I encounter any problem or esp-r works fine on 64 bit as well? Also, when I install the esp-r with the following command, it can't find gcc-4.1: ./Install -d ~/esru --gcc4 --compiler_version -4.1 and installation abort with fatal error. However, as soon as I omit the compiler_version one ESP-r installs. I know that the cluster has gcc4 compiler on it version 4.1.2. The question is, can I just specify --gcc4 and not the compiler_version? is that work properly? Thanks, ----- Sara Nikoofard Room C254A, Department of Mechanical Engineering, Dalhousie University, Halifax, NS Phone: (902)494-3165 email: s.nikoofard at dal.ca _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From hannah.neumann at ise.fraunhofer.de Mon Dec 5 10:13:43 2011 From: hannah.neumann at ise.fraunhofer.de (Hannah Neumann) Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2011 11:13:43 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] initial building temperature Message-ID: <4EDC9957.5040204@ise.fraunhofer.de> Dear all, I want to set my initial building temperature (Zone db T) to 15 ?C, like it is predefined in the simulation toggles. I am using no start-up days and 10 zone timesteps per h. Every timestep is saved. The initial temperature of 15 ?C is not taken into account with these settings, instead I get a much lower initial temperature. Does anybody know, why the initial temperature is not taken into account and how to solve this problem? Thanks, Hannah -- Dipl.-Ing. (FH) Hannah Neumann Division Thermal Systems and Buildings Fraunhofer Institut f?r Solare Energiesysteme ISE Heidenhofstra?e 2, 79110 Freiburg, Germany Phone: +49 (0) 7 61/ 45 88 - 54 31 Fax: +49 (0) 7 61/ 45 88 - 91 32 hannah.neumann at ise.fraunhofer.de www.ise.fraunhofer.de From achim.geissler at fhnw.ch Mon Dec 5 13:44:51 2011 From: achim.geissler at fhnw.ch (Geissler Achim) Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2011 14:44:51 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: initial building temperature In-Reply-To: <4EDC9957.5040204@ise.fraunhofer.de> References: <4EDC9957.5040204@ise.fraunhofer.de> Message-ID: <0F4309A75967A944A1E3C19469796698E8DD18CE24@MXAMU12.adm.ds.fhnw.ch> Dear Hannah following suggestion: Define an own day type "Startup", use this daytype for the first few days of your simulation period and give this daytype a control with ample heating and cooling power with the (temperature) setpoint you desire. After this, your model should be "initialized" with whatever you wanted and can run from there as wished. Of course, multi-layered constructions or very heavy constructions outside a thermal insulation will not have a well-defined temperature but will depend on your weather data. Of course, you could additionally create your own weather data file to address this issue. Best Achim -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] Im Auftrag von Hannah Neumann Gesendet: Montag, 5. Dezember 2011 11:14 An: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Betreff: [esp-r] initial building temperature Dear all, I want to set my initial building temperature (Zone db T) to 15 ?C, like it is predefined in the simulation toggles. I am using no start-up days and 10 zone timesteps per h. Every timestep is saved. The initial temperature of 15 ?C is not taken into account with these settings, instead I get a much lower initial temperature. Does anybody know, why the initial temperature is not taken into account and how to solve this problem? Thanks, Hannah -- Dipl.-Ing. (FH) Hannah Neumann Division Thermal Systems and Buildings Fraunhofer Institut f?r Solare Energiesysteme ISE Heidenhofstra?e 2, 79110 Freiburg, Germany Phone: +49 (0) 7 61/ 45 88 - 54 31 Fax: +49 (0) 7 61/ 45 88 - 91 32 hannah.neumann at ise.fraunhofer.de www.ise.fraunhofer.de _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From laydzc at nottingham.ac.uk Mon Dec 5 17:51:25 2011 From: laydzc at nottingham.ac.uk (Ziwei Chen) Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2011 17:51:25 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Simulation-monthly temperature Message-ID: <2AF59D44D11AA5439CE1DB59332DAB5C40472F11F3@EXCHANGE2.ad.nottingham.ac.uk> Hi Everyone, I got one more problem. As I did the simulation part, firstly I simulated the summer period and I got results of the monthly average temperature from the Enquires about-monthly temp. Then I did a one year period simulation similarly, I checked the monthly temperature as well. There is a difference between the results. Every time I simulated for a period, the temperature of the first month is the same as the internal set point. But in another simulation with a different period, the month got a different temperature other than the set point. I cannot find out reasons to explain the errors. I am wondering whether any of you can help me solve it. Thanks. Ziwei. This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it. Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment. Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Tue Dec 6 09:17:58 2011 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2011 09:17:58 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: initial building temperature In-Reply-To: <0F4309A75967A944A1E3C19469796698E8DD18CE24@MXAMU12.adm.ds.fhnw.ch> References: <4EDC9957.5040204@ise.fraunhofer.de>, <0F4309A75967A944A1E3C19469796698E8DD18CE24@MXAMU12.adm.ds.fhnw.ch> Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA41301BCC4BB071E@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> It is not recommended to have zero startup days. The default number of startup days suggested by the application is a good starting point. If you want additional stability you could increase the number of days slightly. -Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Geissler Achim [achim.geissler at fhnw.ch] Sent: 05 December 2011 13:44 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Re: initial building temperature Dear Hannah following suggestion: Define an own day type "Startup", use this daytype for the first few days of your simulation period and give this daytype a control with ample heating and cooling power with the (temperature) setpoint you desire. After this, your model should be "initialized" with whatever you wanted and can run from there as wished. Of course, multi-layered constructions or very heavy constructions outside a thermal insulation will not have a well-defined temperature but will depend on your weather data. Of course, you could additionally create your own weather data file to address this issue. Best Achim -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] Im Auftrag von Hannah Neumann Gesendet: Montag, 5. Dezember 2011 11:14 An: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Betreff: [esp-r] initial building temperature Dear all, I want to set my initial building temperature (Zone db T) to 15 ?C, like it is predefined in the simulation toggles. I am using no start-up days and 10 zone timesteps per h. Every timestep is saved. The initial temperature of 15 ?C is not taken into account with these settings, instead I get a much lower initial temperature. Does anybody know, why the initial temperature is not taken into account and how to solve this problem? Thanks, Hannah -- Dipl.-Ing. (FH) Hannah Neumann Division Thermal Systems and Buildings Fraunhofer Institut f?r Solare Energiesysteme ISE Heidenhofstra?e 2, 79110 Freiburg, Germany Phone: +49 (0) 7 61/ 45 88 - 54 31 Fax: +49 (0) 7 61/ 45 88 - 91 32 hannah.neumann at ise.fraunhofer.de www.ise.fraunhofer.de _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Tue Dec 6 09:21:58 2011 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2011 09:21:58 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Simulation-monthly temperature In-Reply-To: <2AF59D44D11AA5439CE1DB59332DAB5C40472F11F3@EXCHANGE2.ad.nottingham.ac.uk> References: <2AF59D44D11AA5439CE1DB59332DAB5C40472F11F3@EXCHANGE2.ad.nottingham.ac.uk> Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA41301BCC4BB071F@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> To clarify the issue could you tell us: a) how different were the average monthly temperatures? b) did you use the same simulation time-steps and number of startup days in each of the runs? c) what about temperatures at shorter timesteps - for example pick a few days in the middle of the summer from the summer run and the annual run and look at the temperature patterns -Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Ziwei Chen [laydzc at nottingham.ac.uk] Sent: 05 December 2011 17:51 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Simulation-monthly temperature Hi Everyone, I got one more problem. As I did the simulation part, firstly I simulated the summer period and I got results of the monthly average temperature from the Enquires about-monthly temp. Then I did a one year period simulation similarly, I checked the monthly temperature as well. There is a difference between the results. Every time I simulated for a period, the temperature of the first month is the same as the internal set point. But in another simulation with a different period, the month got a different temperature other than the set point. I cannot find out reasons to explain the errors. I am wondering whether any of you can help me solve it. Thanks. Ziwei. This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it. Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment. Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From dimitrios.sfakianakis at strath.ac.uk Mon Dec 12 10:13:08 2011 From: dimitrios.sfakianakis at strath.ac.uk (Dimitrios Sfakianakis) Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2011 10:13:08 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Pressure calculation affected by .mfs - .pln mapping Message-ID: <44D295EFFE81BF4492C25E87AC1D499701B978E4E886@E2K7-MS3.ds.strath.ac.uk> Dear list, I have set up a flow network and a plant network and have mapped two connections of the plant network to the flow network. From what I read in the documentation (Hensen, 1991), by mapping the two networks, the mass flow rate calculated in the .mfs is transferred to the mapped connection in .pln. However I noticed that the pressure of an internal unknown node (linked to a zone in my model) calculated by the .mfs, is affected by this mapping. If the only effect of this mapping is the mass flow rate transfer from .mfr -> .pln how can the pressure calculations in .mfr change? What am I missing? Kind regards, - Dimitrios Sfakianakis -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20111212/8c42752f/attachment.html From achim.geissler at fhnw.ch Mon Dec 12 11:56:21 2011 From: achim.geissler at fhnw.ch (Geissler Achim) Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2011 12:56:21 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Pressure calculation affected by .mfs - .pln mapping In-Reply-To: <44D295EFFE81BF4492C25E87AC1D499701B978E4E886@E2K7-MS3.ds.strath.ac.uk> References: <44D295EFFE81BF4492C25E87AC1D499701B978E4E886@E2K7-MS3.ds.strath.ac.uk> Message-ID: <0F4309A75967A944A1E3C19469796698E8DD252DBF@MXAMU12.adm.ds.fhnw.ch> Hi Dimitrios sounds like an interesting model you have. Basically, the mass flow network is a set of equations that must satisfy the mass conservation law. The pressures and mass flows are interdependent and result from taking available flow paths, fixed pressures given at nodes and flow resistances and/or fixed flows (e.g. fans) between flow nodes into account. So, I would expect changes in pressures if you superpose mass flows on a given network. Best Achim Von: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] Im Auftrag von Dimitrios Sfakianakis Gesendet: Montag, 12. Dezember 2011 11:13 An: 'esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk' Betreff: [esp-r] Pressure calculation affected by .mfs - .pln mapping Dear list, I have set up a flow network and a plant network and have mapped two connections of the plant network to the flow network. From what I read in the documentation (Hensen, 1991), by mapping the two networks, the mass flow rate calculated in the .mfs is transferred to the mapped connection in .pln. However I noticed that the pressure of an internal unknown node (linked to a zone in my model) calculated by the .mfs, is affected by this mapping. If the only effect of this mapping is the mass flow rate transfer from .mfr -> .pln how can the pressure calculations in .mfr change? What am I missing? Kind regards, - Dimitrios Sfakianakis -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20111212/d97f605c/attachment.html From achim.geissler at fhnw.ch Mon Dec 12 12:43:05 2011 From: achim.geissler at fhnw.ch (Geissler Achim) Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2011 13:43:05 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Pressure calculation affected by .mfs - .pln mapping In-Reply-To: <44D295EFFE81BF4492C25E87AC1D499701B978E4E892@E2K7-MS3.ds.strath.ac.uk> References: <44D295EFFE81BF4492C25E87AC1D499701B978E4E886@E2K7-MS3.ds.strath.ac.uk> <0F4309A75967A944A1E3C19469796698E8DD252DBF@MXAMU12.adm.ds.fhnw.ch> <44D295EFFE81BF4492C25E87AC1D499701B978E4E892@E2K7-MS3.ds.strath.ac.uk> Message-ID: <0F4309A75967A944A1E3C19469796698E8DD252E19@MXAMU12.adm.ds.fhnw.ch> Dear Dimitrios sorry, I think I did not quite understand your question first time round. Based on your clarification below, I am not quite sure I understand your differentiation between "map" and "link" in terms of the setup (however, I am likely out of my depth, here, as I have to date only had one model with linked plant / flow network up and running). >From your observations I would guess that "mapping" and "linking" is maybe the same (the documentation you cite is quite old, after all). Would you expect the effects you see for your model with (fully) linked plant? As I cannot really give any more assistance, I took the discussion back to the group. Maybe somebody else out there can help you. Best Achim --------------------------------------------------------------------- T +41 61 467 44 51 achim.geissler at fhnw.ch www.fhnw.ch/iebau --------------------------------------------------------------------- Von: Dimitrios Sfakianakis [mailto:dimitrios.sfakianakis at strath.ac.uk] Gesendet: Montag, 12. Dezember 2011 13:30 An: Geissler Achim Betreff: RE: [esp-r] Pressure calculation affected by .mfs - .pln mapping Dear Achim, Thank you very much for your reply. Although I understand what you wrote, my question still remains. Let me restate it in the following paragraph. I have a model with a flow network (no plant network for the time being), which when simulated gives me a pressure / time graph for every node. Once I add a plant network and don't link it to a zone, or map it to the flow network, the pressure / time graph remains as it was before. Now when I map the plant network to the flow network (and still not link the plant network to a zone) the pressure calculated from the flow solver seems to change. >From what I have read so far in the literature, by mapping those networks, the only action taken by esp-r is the transfer of mass flow and pressure difference from the flow network to the plant network. Since this is an 'one way' exchange of data (.mfs -> .pln) how can the pressure calculations of .mfs be affected? Thank you again for your reply and I really appreciate you spending time replying to my e-mail. Kind regards, Dimitrios Sfakianakis From: Geissler Achim [mailto:achim.geissler at fhnw.ch] Sent: 12 December 2011 11:56 To: Dimitrios Sfakianakis; 'esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk' Subject: AW: [esp-r] Pressure calculation affected by .mfs - .pln mapping Hi Dimitrios sounds like an interesting model you have. Basically, the mass flow network is a set of equations that must satisfy the mass conservation law. The pressures and mass flows are interdependent and result from taking available flow paths, fixed pressures given at nodes and flow resistances and/or fixed flows (e.g. fans) between flow nodes into account. So, I would expect changes in pressures if you superpose mass flows on a given network. Best Achim Von: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] Im Auftrag von Dimitrios Sfakianakis Gesendet: Montag, 12. Dezember 2011 11:13 An: 'esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk' Betreff: [esp-r] Pressure calculation affected by .mfs - .pln mapping Dear list, I have set up a flow network and a plant network and have mapped two connections of the plant network to the flow network. From what I read in the documentation (Hensen, 1991), by mapping the two networks, the mass flow rate calculated in the .mfs is transferred to the mapped connection in .pln. However I noticed that the pressure of an internal unknown node (linked to a zone in my model) calculated by the .mfs, is affected by this mapping. If the only effect of this mapping is the mass flow rate transfer from .mfr -> .pln how can the pressure calculations in .mfr change? What am I missing? Kind regards, - Dimitrios Sfakianakis -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20111212/a2bba95d/attachment-0001.html From A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk Wed Dec 14 17:26:51 2011 From: A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk (A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2011 17:26:51 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] modelling trees In-Reply-To: <0F4309A75967A944A1E3C19469796698E8DD252E19@MXAMU12.adm.ds.fhnw.ch> References: <44D295EFFE81BF4492C25E87AC1D499701B978E4E886@E2K7-MS3.ds.strath.ac.uk> <0F4309A75967A944A1E3C19469796698E8DD252DBF@MXAMU12.adm.ds.fhnw.ch> <44D295EFFE81BF4492C25E87AC1D499701B978E4E892@E2K7-MS3.ds.strath.ac.uk> <0F4309A75967A944A1E3C19469796698E8DD252E19@MXAMU12.adm.ds.fhnw.ch> Message-ID: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C1217C7A1B5A@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> Dear All, has anybody tried to model the shading effect of trees with ESP-r? If so, what would be the best way to proceed? I look forward to hearing from you. Thank you, Arianna ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20111214/3cbbdbea/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Thu Dec 15 10:12:59 2011 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2011 10:12:59 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: modelling trees In-Reply-To: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C1217C7A1B5A@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> References: <44D295EFFE81BF4492C25E87AC1D499701B978E4E886@E2K7-MS3.ds.strath.ac.uk> <0F4309A75967A944A1E3C19469796698E8DD252DBF@MXAMU12.adm.ds.fhnw.ch> <44D295EFFE81BF4492C25E87AC1D499701B978E4E892@E2K7-MS3.ds.strath.ac.uk> <0F4309A75967A944A1E3C19469796698E8DD252E19@MXAMU12.adm.ds.fhnw.ch>, <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C1217C7A1B5A@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA41301BCC4BB0748@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> There is an example of a tree being represented as a collection of obstruction blocks in the simple exemplar model bld_simple_shd.cfg There is one rectangular block representing the trunk and a six sided non-rectangular obstruction representing the tree itself. What is shown is an evergreen tree. A tree with no leaves would be a very different shape and so an alternative set of obstruction blocks would be needed - as they can be rotated and tilted one could build up quite detailed representations if required. -Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk [A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk] Sent: 14 December 2011 17:26 To: 'esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk' Subject: [esp-r] modelling trees Dear All, has anybody tried to model the shading effect of trees with ESP-r? If so, what would be the best way to proceed? I look forward to hearing from you. Thank you, Arianna ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ From A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk Sun Dec 25 21:57:58 2011 From: A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk (A.Sdei at brighton.ac.uk) Date: Sun, 25 Dec 2011 21:57:58 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] controlled scheduled air flow In-Reply-To: <0F4309A75967A944A1E3C19469796698E8DD252E19@MXAMU12.adm.ds.fhnw.ch> References: <44D295EFFE81BF4492C25E87AC1D499701B978E4E886@E2K7-MS3.ds.strath.ac.uk> <0F4309A75967A944A1E3C19469796698E8DD252DBF@MXAMU12.adm.ds.fhnw.ch> <44D295EFFE81BF4492C25E87AC1D499701B978E4E892@E2K7-MS3.ds.strath.ac.uk> <0F4309A75967A944A1E3C19469796698E8DD252E19@MXAMU12.adm.ds.fhnw.ch> Message-ID: <43AC8FF96AEAFA43B65D1EDF7FD1C1217E8C9735@ALUDRA.university.brighton.ac.uk> Hi Everyone, I would like to impose a control law to a scheduled air flow based on the internal temperature in order to simplify the opening and closing windows operation. I have found the facility within the program however I don't know how to apply the control to a period only, say from 6am to 8pm so to assume that windows are always closed at night. Can anyone help? Thank you in advance, Regards, Arianna ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20111225/96a54c42/attachment.html