[esp-r] Re: Underground temperature?
Marco Manzan
manzan at units.it
Tue Sep 29 20:21:54 BST 2009
Alle martedì 29 settembre 2009, esp-r-request at lists.strath.ac.uk ha scritto:
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> Today's Topics:
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> 1. Underground temperature? (????)
> 2. Re: Underground temperature? (Achim Geissler)
> 3. Re: Underground temperature? (Jon Hand)
> 4. Re: Underground temperature? (?? ??)
> 5. Re: Underground temperature? (Bob Irving)
> 6. glazing based in Polycarbonate (nunotaf)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 09:44:09 +0900
> From: ???? <koji_takemasa at me.com>
> Subject: [esp-r] Underground temperature?
> To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk
> Message-ID: <151248584612452206462856966839369896228-Webmail at me.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-2022-JP
>
> Hello.
>
> I am evaluating the housing complex by the format to which the climatic
> data of Tokyo is provided, and using ESP-r.
>
> An underground temperature is not included in meteorogical data. Please
> teach an underground temperature by which method to calculate in ESP-r.
>
> -----
> Name : Koji Takemasa?Dr. Eng.?
> E-mail : koji_takemasa at mac.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 10:47:35 +0200
> From: "Achim Geissler" <achim.geissler at intergga.ch>
> Subject: [esp-r] Re: Underground temperature?
> To: '????' <koji_takemasa at me.com>, <esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk>
> Message-ID: <000301ca40e1$7e9147b0$7bb3d710$@geissler at intergga.ch>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-2022-JP"
>
> Dear Koji
>
> in the Tokyo EPW file there are ground temperatures included, as far as I
> am aware. Line 4 of this file is "ground temperatures". This list includes
> monthly mean ground temperatures in depths of 0.5 m, 2 m and 4 m.
>
> Regards
> Achim
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk
> [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of ????
> Sent: Dienstag, 29. September 2009 02:44
> To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk
> Subject: [esp-r] Underground temperature?
>
> Hello.
>
> I am evaluating the housing complex by the format to which the climatic
> data of Tokyo is provided,
> and using ESP-r.
>
> An underground temperature is not included in meteorogical data. Please
> teach an underground temperature
> by which method to calculate in ESP-r.
>
> -----
> Name : Koji Takemasa?Dr. Eng.?
> E-mail : koji_takemasa at mac.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> esp-r mailing list
> esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk
> http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r
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>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 10:55:11 +0100
> From: Jon Hand <jon at esru.strath.ac.uk>
> Subject: [esp-r] Re: Underground temperature?
> To: ???? <koji_takemasa at me.com>, "esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk"
> <esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk>
> Message-ID:
> <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA41372EEC892BF at E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-2022-jp"
>
>
> A question about ground temperatures...
> ________________________________________
>
> I am evaluating the housing complex by the format to which the climatic
> data of Tokyo is provided, and using ESP-r.
>
> An underground temperature is not included in meteorogical data. Please
> teach an underground temperature by which method to calculate in ESP-r.
> ________________________________________
>
> It is possible in ESP-r to include user-defined monthly ground temperature
> profiles in a model. A model could have a monthly profile for 1m depth
> and a different one for 2m depth. The best source would be from
> measurements or reports in the literature.
>
> The second source would be to check if an alternative climate data includes
> ground temperatures. For example, the EPW files that are used by
> EnergyPlus (and imported by ESP-r) often include a data line with ground
> temperatures at various depths. It is up to the user to decide if such
> data is appropriate for the site.
>
> A third option is to use a numerical approach and calculate the ground
> temperature a various depths based on the outside temperature and the type
> of ground. There are dozens of published equations in the literature.
>
> A simple approach is to equate the ground temperature to the average
> air temperature 2-3 months earlier e.g. august ground temperature is equal
> to the june average air temperature.
>
> -ESRU
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 18:54:58 +0900
> From: ?? ?? <koji_takemasa at me.com>
> Subject: [esp-r] Re: Underground temperature?
> To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk
> Message-ID: <85DF608B-177B-4631-909E-3E96795A2838 at me.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-2022-jp"
>
> Thank you.
>
> The EA climatic data is usually used in Japan for the simulation of
> the building. I also am using the EA climatic data of Tokyo.
> The climatic data of this Tokyo decided to be converted into ASCII
> data, and to use it with ESP-r.
>
> Because the climatic data of ASCII form of the specified format can be
> used for ESP-r. There is no item of an underground
> temperature in the format. Then, I thought that ESP-r calculated an
> underground temperature by me.
>
> I want to learn the computational method.
>
> By the way, the EA meteorogical data has the data of Japan of 840
> points.
>
> koji_takemasa at me.com?Dr. Eng.?
>
>
>
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 11:02:05 +0100
> From: Bob Irving <bob.irving at brookes.ac.uk>
> Subject: [esp-r] Re: Underground temperature?
> Cc: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk
> Message-ID: <BC7E839D-7035-40A8-B6C9-C5FCEC05DC14 at brookes.ac.uk>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-2022-jp"
>
> Underground temperatures below 10m are usually reckoned to be the same
> as the average yearly air temperature.
>
> There is a formula in Labs, K "Underground Building Climate". Solar
> Age, Vol 4 Part 10, 1979 reproduced in Harris, D J "Ground
> Temperatures in Britain". International Journal of Ambient Energy, Vol
> 27, No 3, which relates underground temperature to Mean annual
> Temperature, depth, time of year in days, amplitude of surface
> temperature, thermal diffusivity, which gives a sort of sine wave.
> Also in Jenkins, D. P., Tucker, R., & Rawlings, R. (2009). Modelling
> the carbon-saving performance of domestic ground-source heat pumps,
> Energy and Buildings.
>
>
> Bob Irving
> PhD researcher
> Oxford Inst of Sustainable Development
> Oxford Brookes University
>
> 01865 484201
> 01285 650281
>
> On 29 Sep 2009, at 01:44, ???? wrote:
> > Hello.
> >
> > I am evaluating the housing complex by the format to which the
> > climatic data of Tokyo is provided,
> > and using ESP-r.
> >
> > An underground temperature is not included in meteorogical data.
> > Please teach an underground temperature
> > by which method to calculate in ESP-r.
> >
> > -----
> > Name : Koji Takemasa?Dr. Eng.?
> > E-mail : koji_takemasa at mac.com
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > esp-r mailing list
> > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk
> > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r
>
The epw format includes underground temperatures, but these are not to be used
in buildng simulation codes as clearly stated in the file .stat that comes
with the epw file, since these are undisturbed ground temperatures.
Esp-r can cope with the problem of basements using the BASESIMP method, how is
implemented and how to use it in ESP-r is explained in files
BASESIMP_configurations.pdf, BASESIMP_theory.pdf, BASESIMP_vs_NN.pdf
available on esru site.
best regards
Marco
--
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|Marco Manzan Email: manzan at units.it |
|Tel: (+39) 040 5583506 Fax : (+39) 040 572033 |
|Dipartimento di Ingegneria Navale, del Mare e per l'Ambiente |
|Universita' degli Studi di Trieste |
|piazzale Europa 1, 34127 TRIESTE |
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