[esp-r] Re: Heating and Cooling Loads

Thu Sep 10 03:56:26 BST 2009

Felipe,
I'd like to start with your 'a zone of 10 x 10 x 3 mt. high with no ventilation and no internal gains' model which is an excellent case to evaluate the fundamental algorithms.

Please provide info of that model likewise.

Having worked at IES-VE for 8+ years and coded part of Apache-sim and the whole of macroflo, it is interesting to see how it works from user's point of view.

Regards,

David Tang
Chief Engineer, Energy Solutions
Owens Corning
T: +86 21 6101 9587; F: +86 21 6101 9588; m: +86 13817249419

From: Felipe Durán [mailto:felipe at b-green.cl]
Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 1:01 AM
To: Tang, David
Cc: leen peeters; Tang, Kevin; Xing, Nina; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk; Rodrigo Perez
Subject: Re: [esp-r] Re: Heating and Cooling Loads

David and Rodrigo,

Thank you for your help.
I`ve simplify the model and the results of the 3-floor office building are:

IES_VE   390 kW (heating) 123 kW (cooling)
ESP-r     246 kW (heating)  205 kW (cooling)

The model conditions of the 3-floor office building are:
IES_VE 390 kW (heating) 123 kW (cooling)

1. Geometry: 3 zones of 25 m x 60 m x 2.5 m high. 40% of glazing ratio for all the orientations

2. Orientation: North towards the long side (25 meters)

3. Materials (outside to inside)
3.1 External Wall: cast concrete 0,2m, Polystyrene 0.02m, Gypsum Plasterboard 0,01m. U-value = 0.9597 (W/m2K)
3.2 Window: Double glazing, clear float 6mm + 12mm cavity. U-Value=2.82 (W/m2K)
3.3 Roof: Cast concrete (lightweight) 0.05m, Polystyrene 0.15m, cast concrete 0,15m. U-value = 0.1859 (W/m2K)
3.4 Ground Floor: Cast Concrete 0.15 m, polystyrene 0.05 m, U-value = 0.5041 (W/m2K)
3.5 Slabs: cast Concrete 0.15, U-value = 3,2558 (W/m2K)

4. Boundary Conditions: All the walls and the roof faces the outside. The slabs are interiors and only the ground floor faces the grund.

5. Run Period: 1/1 31/12 (whole year)

6. Internal gains: Occupancy 6 m2/person (70 W Sensible, 35 W latent), Lighting 8 W/m2, Equipment 5 W7m2. All the time for the whole year, including nights, weekends, etc.

7. Climate file CHL_Santiago_IWEC.epw (from the energyplus database)

8.  Comfort band 20 Cº-24Cº

9. Ventilation: infiltration 0.25 (ach/h), auxiliari ventilatios 3.25 (ach/h) on ESP-r  infiltration of 3.25 (ach/h)

Thank you again

Felipe Durán Palma
Arquitecto PUC, MPhil. U. Cambridge
Director de Proyectos y Asesorías

Obispo Donoso 5 oficina 62 - Providencia - Santiago
felipe at b-green.cl<mailto:felipe at b-green.cl> - www.b-green.cl<http://www.b-green.cl> - 56 (2) 3431868

El 9 Sep 2009, a las 00:22, Tang, David escribió:

Describe your model we'll run DOE2 and EnergyPlus to see who's right.

geometry,
orientation
wall, window, roof materials,
boundary conditions (is the wall contact outside, ground, other indoor space?)
run period (from mm/dd to mm/dd),
etc.
as detail as possible.

Regards,

David Tang
Chief Engineer, Energy Solutions
Owens Corning
T: +86 21 6101 9587; F: +86 21 6101 9588; m: +86 13817249419

From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Felipe Durán
Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 5:10 AM
To: leen peeters
Cc: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk<mailto:esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk>
Subject: [esp-r] Re: Heating and Cooling Loads

Leen,

I am working with the EPW climate file of Santiago de Chile in both soft wares. I ve modelled a zone of 10 x 10 x 3 mt. high with no ventilation and no internal gains. The results are:

ESP-r = 11.9 (heating), 1.86 (cooling)
IES = 14.6 (heating), 5.2 (cooling)

Now we got great differences in the cooling load. IES gave me 3 times more cooling loads than ESP-r

Any ideas how to go proceed?

Felipe Durán Palma
Arquitecto PUC, MPhil. U. Cambridge
Director de Proyectos y Asesorías

Obispo Donoso 5 oficina 62 - Providencia - Santiago
felipe at b-green.cl<mailto:felipe at b-green.cl> - www.b-green.cl<http://www.b-green.cl> - 56 (2) 3431868

El 8 Sep 2009, a las 16:49, leen peeters escribió:

Felipe,

set you climate to some artifical constant climqte with constant temperature, constant solar radiation,... That is one more set of variables excluded

Leen

2009/9/8 Felipe Durán <felipe at b-green.cl<mailto:felipe at b-green.cl>>
Dear Samuel and Leen,

Actually, when I found out such big differences I ve modelled a very simple 3-zone model and the differences persist.

I will try out with a simple box without ventilation and internal gains and I will let you know the results.

Thank you all for your help.

Felipe Durán Palma
Arquitecto PUC, MPhil. U. Cambridge
Director de Proyectos y Asesorías

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Obispo Donoso 5 oficina 62 - Providencia - Santiago
felipe at b-green.cl<mailto:felipe at b-green.cl> - www.b-green.cl<http://www.b-green.cl/> - 56 (2) 3431868

El 8 Sep 2009, a las 13:19, Aizaz Samuel escribió:

Try reducing your model complexity by modelling just one zone with minimal
information possible. Simulate for just one day. If the two softwares compare
well keep building up the model in complexity.

-Aizaz

On Tuesday 08 September 2009 17:41, Felipe Durán wrote:
Dear All,
I am modeling in both ESP-r and IES-VE and office building and the results
for heating and cooling loads are very different.

 ESP-r = 269 kW (heating); 237 kW (cooling)
IES-VE = 835 kW (Heating); 360 kW (cooling)

 Does anyone had a similar experience with such differences?

Kind Regards,

Felipe Durán Palma
Arquitecto PUC, MPhil. U. Cambridge
Director de Proyectos y Asesorías
[cid:B9AD3F91-76F4-4F37-8A2C-7A559281C059<http://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&ik=8c428781db&view=att&th=1239aec006a1c658&attid=0.0.1.1&disp=emb&zw>]
Obispo Donoso 5 oficina 62 - Providencia - Santiago
felipe at b-green.cl<mailto:felipe at b-green.cl><mailto:felipe at b-green.cl> -
www.b-green.cl<http://www.b-green.cl><http://www.b-green.cl<http://www.b-green.cl/>> - 56 (2) 3431868

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