From esprfans at hotmail.com Fri Jan 4 05:58:41 2008 From: esprfans at hotmail.com (Leepaul) Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 13:58:41 +0800 Subject: [esp-r] how to export weather file as text format(acII code)file? Message-ID: Dear all, how to export weather file as text format(acII code)file? I use esp-r linux 11.4 version,and I try to export one city's weather file as text format, in database mantenance and with weather bowse/edit module, after I oprate export, no file is created in the specified folder. thank you. leepaul _________________________________________________________________ MSN????????????????????? http://im.live.cn/emoticons/?ID=18 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080104/fcf86917/attachment.html From daviddardenne at gmail.com Sun Jan 6 11:11:25 2008 From: daviddardenne at gmail.com (David Dardenne) Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 12:11:25 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] insulation on vertical wall Message-ID: <4780b773.0305560a.6067.7575@mx.google.com> Dardenne David Architecte Dipl. MAS en Architecture & D?veloppement Durable (EPFLausanne) Place A. Bosch 19 bte2 1300 Wavre +32(0)496 26 67 84 daviddardenne at gmail.com Wavre, le 6 janvier 2008 Hi everybody, I?m a newbie I need to know the insulations per month of four vertical walls (4 directions different). I have made a climate data base (Changde in China) and I?ve have the horizontal insulation (diffuse and direct). What can I do? Salutations, Dardenne David _____ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080106/61b6e826/attachment.html From Monika.Hall at josef-gartner.ch Mon Jan 7 08:47:03 2008 From: Monika.Hall at josef-gartner.ch (Hall Monika) Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 09:47:03 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: insulation on vertical wall References: <4780b773.0305560a.6067.7575@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C2F64CD@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Hi David, You could model a black colored box with the dimension of 1 m x 1 m x 1m. You will get in the result-file the insolation for each wall orientation. I heard, that there is a possibility to create the diffuse radiation based on the horizontal radiation in the climate-program (clm), but I have not tried this yet. Regards Monika ________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of David Dardenne Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 12:11 PM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] insulation on vertical wall Dardenne David Architecte Dipl. MAS en Architecture & D?veloppement Durable (EPFLausanne) Place A. Bosch 19 bte2 1300 Wavre +32(0)496 26 67 84 daviddardenne at gmail.com Wavre, le 6 janvier 2008 Hi everybody, I'm a newbie I need to know the insulations per month of four vertical walls (4 directions different). I have made a climate data base (Changde in China) and I've have the horizontal insulation (diffuse and direct). What can I do? Salutations, Dardenne David ________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080107/224d6000/attachment-0001.html From blomanow at engmail.uwaterloo.ca Wed Jan 9 22:00:15 2008 From: blomanow at engmail.uwaterloo.ca (Bart Lomanowski) Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2008 17:00:15 -0500 Subject: [esp-r] nodal temperatures in coupled surfaces In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20080109170015.o4sytekjk00gwcs8@www.nexusmail.uwaterloo.ca> Hi there, I am working on a model containing two zones which are coupled by an opaque construction with boundary condition "surface in other zone". Since the construction is non-symmetrical, I've inverted it so that the layers match. One of the zones has a large window. I am trying to understand how ESP-r handles coupled surfaces. Ideally, the resulting nodal temperatures for both original and inverted construction separating the two zones should be identical. But since ESP-r solves the difference equations one zone at a time, this doesn't seem to be the case and I am observing large differences between the nodal temperatures as viewed from zone1 and zone2. Is this expected? Also, I've noticed that the solar absorption (QSOLI) for the coupled surface doesn't seem to be added to the inverted construction in the adjacent zone, whereas the solar nodal absorption for TMCs (QTMCA) are. Any reason for this? Thanks, Bart From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Thu Jan 10 13:23:53 2008 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 13:23:53 -0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: nodal temperatures in coupled surfaces References: <20080109170015.o4sytekjk00gwcs8@www.nexusmail.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: A recent question about temperatures within a partition.... ::I am working on a model containing two zones which are coupled by an ::opaque construction with boundary condition "surface in other zone". ::Since the construction is non-symmetrical, I've inverted it so that ::the layers match. One of the zones has a large window. ::I am trying to understand how ESP-r handles coupled surfaces. Ideally, ::the resulting nodal temperatures for both original and inverted ::construction separating the two zones should be identical. But since ::ESP-r solves the difference equations one zone at a time, this doesn't ::seem to be the case and I am observing large differences between the ::nodal temperatures as viewed from zone1 and zone2. Is this expected? The solution technique does solve zone-by-zone. When the boundary condition on the 'other-side' is needed it looks for such information in the common blocks. The current value in the common block might be temperatures from the current timestep or the previous timestep depending on the order of the zones. Normally the values will be close. IF YOU HAVE a one hour timestep then the information being used could be somewhat out of date, especially if there is a rapid change in surface temperatures or the radiant environment. For example, if a room with a large window is the 4th zone and the room on the other size is the 3rd zone the boundary condition at the other side of the 3rd zone will lag reality. If the zones are reversed then the boundary condition on the other side will have just been solved and the information lag is minimal. This suggests that the model might be re-run at shorter timesteps and this would reduce the temporal impact. It might be that a 15 minute timestep would be sufficient. ALSO: be sure to use save level 4 when running the simulation so as to record the explicit fluxes on both sides of the surface. Regards, Jon Hand From obrien_liam at hotmail.com Thu Jan 17 15:00:32 2008 From: obrien_liam at hotmail.com (Liam O'Brien) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 10:00:32 -0500 Subject: [esp-r] Divergent temperature problem Message-ID: Hello, Has anyone seen a situation where air node temperatures rapidly diverge? I copied a sample of the output below. The three columns represent 3 zonal air temperatures. Clearly it is the last zone which leads it into this mess. That zone is partially below grade (and is the only one that is below grade), but I don't think that has any affect. I tried shortening the time step from 1 hr to 6 minutes with no improvement. The weather file is fine and as expected (and was previously used with the EXACT same model with good results). Strangely, this event first appears in mid-March, while the first 75 or so days of the year are normal. I am using the Native Windows ESP-r v11.4. Advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. Liam O'Brien -------------------------- Sample output: 13h30 43.42 20.00 20.00 14h30 44.31 20.00 20.00 15h30 43.05 20.04 20.00 16h30 39.94 20.19 27.52 17h30 36.13 20.40 12.27 18h30 33.22 20.54 -136.61 19h30 31.41 20.58 -304.00 20h30 29.79 20.41 -525.09 21h30 28.24 20.13 -1561.26 22h30 26.58 20.00 -3967.22 23h30 24.24 20.00 -9931.36 00h30 21.42 12.35 -27968.78 01h30 20.00 -18.44 -62663.75 02h30 13.67 -108.24 -113037.28 03h30 -9.91 -406.27 -99020.13 04h30 -56.82 -1083.24 81297.23 05h30 -124.40 -2067.27 144821.97 06h30 -248.69 -2606.58 297298.09 07h30 -396.50 -1319.42 291462.19 08h30 -260.43 1963.93 551596.75 09h30 733.03 3285.11 552658.25 10h30 5891.93 -4002.48-2282449.50 11h30 19842.28 -21007.45-2373278.75 12h30 39435.45 -45115.96 -4980.53 13h30 53756.66 -89237.75 46819.91 14h30 57810.32 -100892.42 697699.69 15h30 57413.93 -131280.14 701561.00 16h30 62013.90 -109333.70 205926.16 17h30 71171.96 -73279.16 206402.44 18h30 78273.96 -64475.00 952138.19 19h30 82607.95 -18002.44 958961.06 20h30 90531.25 12025.3919308148.00 21h30 133012.41 64844.9119425858.00 22h30 108458.19 165871.7218159424.00 23h30 51814.10 152742.2318277716.00 00h30 94739.93 28750.90 9649816.00 01h30 126583.69 102819.69 9801288.00 02h30 223814.94 114380.0811968824.00 03h30 125662.75 111111.6512038752.00 04h30 -307529.69 81596.79*********** 05h30 -282475.84 -22293.89*********** 06h30 -77909.29 -72985.9415446885.00 07h30 -54316.12 -97085.4515749495.00 08h30 -8150.79 -131395.55 9798971.00 09h30 -24383.58 -111994.50 9768345.00 10h30 172.91 -2884.0620430128.00 11h30 26776.43 78088.5920528988.00 12h30 64792.29 160905.8016794588.00 13h30 94354.24 186678.1916841920.00 14h30 168554.05 107721.06 596351.38 15h30 126659.49 169575.02 756296.69 16h30 17218.77 198876.06*********** 17h30 2152.02 -787729.56*********** 18h30 399066.00 -868110.31*********** 19h30 440678.13-2647304.00 1.#R 20h30 1.#R 1.#R 1.#R 21h30 1.#R 1.#R 1.#R 22h30 1.#R 1.#R 1.#R _________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080117/df51b862/attachment-0001.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Fri Jan 18 14:10:49 2008 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 14:10:49 -0000 Subject: [esp-r] opinions requested about backward compatibility in ESP-r results libraries Message-ID: To the ESP-r community of users and developers.... At ESRU we are working on some changes to the zone results library file which adds in additional data types. The new information records, for each type of casual gain, the sensible convective, sensible radiant and latent values (in addition to the usual total radiant and convective for each zone). This change has a number of impacts: a) it allows users to be more specific when graphing and listing and doing stats on casual gain related information. You can ask for only the occupant sensible convective or only the latent small power etc. b) it includes latent casual gains for the first time c) it corrects a long-standing glitch for 'controlled' casual gains which made it difficult to undertake some lighting control assessments. d) it makes the recovery of information from the results database much simpler because almost no post processing is required and it will probably be faster because the zone operation file should not need to be scanned to support post-processing. Essentially the new approach takes about 15% of the lines of code that the previous version and this simplification of the code is A VERY GOOD THING. What we are debating at the moment is whether to MAINTAIN backwards compatibility with older results files in the 'res' module. Literally thousands of lines of code clutter could be removed if there is no requirement for backwards compatibility. The old format only privided limited choices, it did a rotten job for models with lighting control, and for complex models it slows down results recovery tasks. We would imagine that all users would prefer to use the new facility when it becomes available. We always attempt to maintain backwards compatibility with simulation models. It seems less important for results files since they can be re-generated easily. And the truly paranoid who have 3 year old models will probably also have a 3 year old version of ESP-r saved as well. So, if you have a strong opinion one way or another please send a brief email with your comments. Regards, Jon Hand From AFerguso at NRCan.gc.ca Fri Jan 18 14:32:26 2008 From: AFerguso at NRCan.gc.ca (Ferguson, Alex) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 09:32:26 -0500 Subject: [esp-r] Re: [Core_developers] opinions requested about backward compatibilityin ESP-r results libraries In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Jon, I agree with your proposal, and I look forward to the much-simplified res code. Perhaps these changes will make it easier to merge the res and xml reporting facilities in the future! I also agree that the res files can be easily regenerated. And with ESP-r under versioning control, it's easy to recover an older version of res for use with archived results libraries. I only suggest that both res dialogues and the release notes be clear about this change. Perhaps both could point users to the svn revision number where they could obtain an older version of res to read ancient archives. If this change will impact res menus, we'll need to update the ANALYZE script to ensure the automated tester can still extract data from the new libraries. - Alex -----Original Message----- From: core_developers-bounces at developer2.cvsdude.com [mailto:core_developers-bounces at developer2.cvsdude.com] On Behalf Of Jon Hand Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 09:11 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Cc: Core_developers at developer2.cvsdude.com Subject: [Core_developers] opinions requested about backward compatibilityin ESP-r results libraries To the ESP-r community of users and developers.... At ESRU we are working on some changes to the zone results library file which adds in additional data types. The new information records, for each type of casual gain, the sensible convective, sensible radiant and latent values (in addition to the usual total radiant and convective for each zone). This change has a number of impacts: a) it allows users to be more specific when graphing and listing and doing stats on casual gain related information. You can ask for only the occupant sensible convective or only the latent small power etc. b) it includes latent casual gains for the first time c) it corrects a long-standing glitch for 'controlled' casual gains which made it difficult to undertake some lighting control assessments. d) it makes the recovery of information from the results database much simpler because almost no post processing is required and it will probably be faster because the zone operation file should not need to be scanned to support post-processing. Essentially the new approach takes about 15% of the lines of code that the previous version and this simplification of the code is A VERY GOOD THING. What we are debating at the moment is whether to MAINTAIN backwards compatibility with older results files in the 'res' module. Literally thousands of lines of code clutter could be removed if there is no requirement for backwards compatibility. The old format only privided limited choices, it did a rotten job for models with lighting control, and for complex models it slows down results recovery tasks. We would imagine that all users would prefer to use the new facility when it becomes available. We always attempt to maintain backwards compatibility with simulation models. It seems less important for results files since they can be re-generated easily. And the truly paranoid who have 3 year old models will probably also have a 3 year old version of ESP-r saved as well. So, if you have a strong opinion one way or another please send a brief email with your comments. Regards, Jon Hand _______________________________________________ CVSDude mailing list: Core_developers Managed by GNU Mailman. Core_developers at developer2.cvsdude.com Archives: https://mirror2.cvsdude.com/mlarch/core_developers From PLopez at NRCan.gc.ca Fri Jan 18 15:25:41 2008 From: PLopez at NRCan.gc.ca (Lopez, Phylroy) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 10:25:41 -0500 Subject: [esp-r] Re: [Core_developers] opinions requested about backward compatibilityin ESP-r results libraries References: Message-ID: Hey Jon, Coincidentally, I have been looking at res the past week. I think moving forward is a great idea and cleaning up the routines in res would be a boon to the output of ESP-r. I am curious if anyone has considered using a common sql database structure such as sqlite to store the data. Currently the XML interface provides users with a lot of flexibility in the development of output, for web simulations as well as rendering output on client systems. However the tradeoff is a slow parsing of the xml data, which can be very very large. Providing an sql library would still allow users to use res to obtain the data, but the common sql database would let developers access the data directly through sql calls. A hierarchal database scheme such as "edge numerical" or "adjacent-list" stratagies could store the data in a logical structure such as: Building ->Plant ->Zone ->Surface ->Surface etc. This would allow a few things, Auto-discovery of data by walking the tree, and have res become a data driven application. Simplfied xml generation if required. Allowing developers to add data to the database with much more ease. Allowing developers to access the databases without having to use or understand res binary formats. If sqlite is used.. Sqlite format is platform independant. So it could results could be viewed/compared on win/mac/linux. Sqlite licence is compatible with ESP-r. I have noticed that there are sql calls already in the ESP-r source code, but the way it was implemented could slow down the simulation as currently written by writing data every timestep. However by grouping the sql calls and only invoking them when a suitable number of transaction could be performed at once, decreasing the file i/o slowdown. If we are revamping the res/output, this is something to consider if it already hasn't been. Phylroy ________________________________ From: core_developers-bounces at developer2.cvsdude.com on behalf of Jon Hand Sent: Fri 1/18/2008 9:10 AM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Cc: Core_developers at developer2.cvsdude.com Subject: [Core_developers] opinions requested about backward compatibilityin ESP-r results libraries To the ESP-r community of users and developers.... At ESRU we are working on some changes to the zone results library file which adds in additional data types. The new information records, for each type of casual gain, the sensible convective, sensible radiant and latent values (in addition to the usual total radiant and convective for each zone). This change has a number of impacts: a) it allows users to be more specific when graphing and listing and doing stats on casual gain related information. You can ask for only the occupant sensible convective or only the latent small power etc. b) it includes latent casual gains for the first time c) it corrects a long-standing glitch for 'controlled' casual gains which made it difficult to undertake some lighting control assessments. d) it makes the recovery of information from the results database much simpler because almost no post processing is required and it will probably be faster because the zone operation file should not need to be scanned to support post-processing. Essentially the new approach takes about 15% of the lines of code that the previous version and this simplification of the code is A VERY GOOD THING. What we are debating at the moment is whether to MAINTAIN backwards compatibility with older results files in the 'res' module. Literally thousands of lines of code clutter could be removed if there is no requirement for backwards compatibility. The old format only privided limited choices, it did a rotten job for models with lighting control, and for complex models it slows down results recovery tasks. We would imagine that all users would prefer to use the new facility when it becomes available. We always attempt to maintain backwards compatibility with simulation models. It seems less important for results files since they can be re-generated easily. And the truly paranoid who have 3 year old models will probably also have a 3 year old version of ESP-r saved as well. So, if you have a strong opinion one way or another please send a brief email with your comments. Regards, Jon Hand _______________________________________________ CVSDude mailing list: Core_developers Managed by GNU Mailman. Core_developers at developer2.cvsdude.com Archives: https://mirror2.cvsdude.com/mlarch/core_developers From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Fri Jan 18 15:54:28 2008 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 15:54:28 -0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: [Core_developers] opinions requested about backward compatibilityin ESP-r results libraries References: Message-ID: Phylroy said.... ::I am curious if anyone has considered using a common sql database structure such as sqlite to store the data. Currently the ::XML interface provides users with a lot of flexibility in the development of output, for web simulations as well as rendering ::output on client systems. However the tradeoff is a slow parsing of the xml data, which can be very very large. Yes this has been considered. One of the issues that made it difficult was the amount of post-processing that was happening in res. The revised code requires almost no post-processing. Indeed, there is one subroutine that recovers almost every item of data related to casual gains for a given zone and timestep (very XML ish) and all that the calling routines are doing is the display work with the subset of that data that is of interest. We have a different project that is beginning to use sqllight and this should provide some indications as to the overhead at run time and the overhead in compile directives and required libraries. More on this as we find out more... -Jon ________________________________ From: core_developers-bounces at developer2.cvsdude.com on behalf of Jon Hand Sent: Fri 1/18/2008 9:10 AM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Cc: Core_developers at developer2.cvsdude.com Subject: [Core_developers] opinions requested about backward compatibilityin ESP-r results libraries To the ESP-r community of users and developers.... At ESRU we are working on some changes to the zone results library file which adds in additional data types. The new information records, for each type of casual gain, the sensible convective, sensible radiant and latent values (in addition to the usual total radiant and convective for each zone). This change has a number of impacts: a) it allows users to be more specific when graphing and listing and doing stats on casual gain related information. You can ask for only the occupant sensible convective or only the latent small power etc. b) it includes latent casual gains for the first time c) it corrects a long-standing glitch for 'controlled' casual gains which made it difficult to undertake some lighting control assessments. d) it makes the recovery of information from the results database much simpler because almost no post processing is required and it will probably be faster because the zone operation file should not need to be scanned to support post-processing. Essentially the new approach takes about 15% of the lines of code that the previous version and this simplification of the code is A VERY GOOD THING. What we are debating at the moment is whether to MAINTAIN backwards compatibility with older results files in the 'res' module. Literally thousands of lines of code clutter could be removed if there is no requirement for backwards compatibility. The old format only privided limited choices, it did a rotten job for models with lighting control, and for complex models it slows down results recovery tasks. We would imagine that all users would prefer to use the new facility when it becomes available. We always attempt to maintain backwards compatibility with simulation models. It seems less important for results files since they can be re-generated easily. And the truly paranoid who have 3 year old models will probably also have a 3 year old version of ESP-r saved as well. So, if you have a strong opinion one way or another please send a brief email with your comments. Regards, Jon Hand _______________________________________________ CVSDude mailing list: Core_developers Managed by GNU Mailman. Core_developers at developer2.cvsdude.com Archives: https://mirror2.cvsdude.com/mlarch/core_developers From PLopez at NRCan.gc.ca Fri Jan 18 16:58:15 2008 From: PLopez at NRCan.gc.ca (Lopez, Phylroy) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 11:58:15 -0500 Subject: [esp-r] Re: [Core_developers] opinions requested about backward compatibilityin ESP-r results libraries References: Message-ID: Jon said.... -::Yes this has been considered. One of the issues that made it difficult was the amount of post-processing that was happening in res. The revised code requires almost no post-processing. I am interested in what post-processing you are talking about. Does res 'massage' data? Or is it just the fact that the data reading from sql -> fortran 77 is problematic? Maybe we can discuss off-line? -::Indeed, there is one subroutine that recovers almost every item of data related to casual gains for a given zone and timestep (very XML ish) and all that the calling routines are doing is the display work with the subset of that data that is of interest. What I would like to see is that developers could ADD data easily to this zonal information contained in the RES database, without have to worry about corrupting other data ,the size of the record, etc. Something like the "add_to_xml" function that CETC put together. Also consider that some may be temporal data, but some may not (daylight luminace factors for example which would follow a more geometrical result using shocc and daysim) . -::We have a different project that is beginning to use sqllight and this should provide some indications as to the overhead at run time and the overhead in compile directives and required libraries. More on this as we find out more... This would be interesting. Possibly an optional compile option, and potentially create the res database as well as a sqlite database. If done with care could replace the backend used to store the data for the XMLreports. Thanks Jon, Phylroy ________________________________ From: core_developers-bounces at developer2.cvsdude.com on behalf of Jon Hand Sent: Fri 1/18/2008 9:10 AM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Cc: Core_developers at developer2.cvsdude.com Subject: [Core_developers] opinions requested about backward compatibilityin ESP-r results libraries To the ESP-r community of users and developers.... At ESRU we are working on some changes to the zone results library file which adds in additional data types. The new information records, for each type of casual gain, the sensible convective, sensible radiant and latent values (in addition to the usual total radiant and convective for each zone). This change has a number of impacts: a) it allows users to be more specific when graphing and listing and doing stats on casual gain related information. You can ask for only the occupant sensible convective or only the latent small power etc. b) it includes latent casual gains for the first time c) it corrects a long-standing glitch for 'controlled' casual gains which made it difficult to undertake some lighting control assessments. d) it makes the recovery of information from the results database much simpler because almost no post processing is required and it will probably be faster because the zone operation file should not need to be scanned to support post-processing. Essentially the new approach takes about 15% of the lines of code that the previous version and this simplification of the code is A VERY GOOD THING. What we are debating at the moment is whether to MAINTAIN backwards compatibility with older results files in the 'res' module. Literally thousands of lines of code clutter could be removed if there is no requirement for backwards compatibility. The old format only privided limited choices, it did a rotten job for models with lighting control, and for complex models it slows down results recovery tasks. We would imagine that all users would prefer to use the new facility when it becomes available. We always attempt to maintain backwards compatibility with simulation models. It seems less important for results files since they can be re-generated easily. And the truly paranoid who have 3 year old models will probably also have a 3 year old version of ESP-r saved as well. So, if you have a strong opinion one way or another please send a brief email with your comments. Regards, Jon Hand _______________________________________________ CVSDude mailing list: Core_developers Managed by GNU Mailman. Core_developers at developer2.cvsdude.com Archives: https://mirror2.cvsdude.com/mlarch/core_developers From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Fri Jan 18 17:19:10 2008 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 17:19:10 -0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: [Core_developers] opinions requested about backward compatibilityin ESP-r results libraries References: Message-ID: Phylroy said... ::I am interested in what post-processing you are talking about. Does res 'massage' data? Or is it just the fact that the data ::reading from sql -> fortran 77 is problematic? Maybe we can discuss off-line? For an example of the post-processing that was being done look in esrures/castyp.F which was needed because only the total sensible convective and total sensible radiant casual gains was held for the zone. To separate out the specifics for the various reports hundreds of lines of code was used. There are some other places where some data is re-constituted (probably related to surface convection). The save level 2 does not have sufficient information to present a zone energy balance so res mimics the calculations done in the simulator. We might decide this is a silly thing to do. Another example of post-processing is reporting on MRT. This requires the surface temperatures in the room and so lots of reading is done to gather the necessary data. This is a different type of post-processing to derive a new metric from a collection of existing data. For this 2nd type of post-processing we might decide to let the simulator pre-calculate this value and just write it - minor slow down in simulator and a faster results recovery. In each of these cases, the initial desire to make a smaller results file required that more work be done to expand the limited data. In the future we could look at saving more performance criteria so that the res module can become even more simple. -Jon From AFerguso at NRCan.gc.ca Fri Jan 18 18:11:17 2008 From: AFerguso at NRCan.gc.ca (Ferguson, Alex) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 13:11:17 -0500 Subject: [esp-r] Re: [Core_developers] opinions requested about backwardcompatibilityin ESP-r results libraries In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Phylroy said: "What I would like to see is that developers could ADD data easily to this zonal information contained in the RES database, without have to worry about corrupting other data ,the size of the record, etc. Something like the "add_to_xml" function that CETC put together. Also consider that some may be temporal data, but some may not (daylight luminace factors for example which would follow a more geometrical result using shocc and daysim) ." I want to echo this comment. Our unfamiliarity with the res database, (combined with our fears of corrupting it) led us away from res and towards the xml output. Binary data formats are intrinsically opaque, and lack of understanding of res library formats is the major reason why few (or no?) developers outside of ESRU have undertaken res development. Res functionality would be much more accessible to developers if new procedures could attach data to res libraries without writing the data directly into the file (that is, via an "add_to_xml"-like call), and if res could discover and report this data without requiring modification. - Alex From perhaugaard at yahoo.dk Fri Jan 25 12:16:18 2008 From: perhaugaard at yahoo.dk (Per Haugaard) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 12:16:18 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [esp-r] Gendaylit Message-ID: <539182.28313.qm@web26603.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Dear EPS-r users I am using Ubuntu Linux I have edited the following lines in the makefile for gensky and copied the gendaylit to the radiance folder and added : CCOPTS= to CCOPTS= -g CCOPTS= -Ae -g # HPUX to # CCOPTS= -Ae -g # HPUX CC=cc to # CC=cc When I initiate the command make I get the following error: fropen.c:45: incompatible implicit declaration of the built-in function 'strcpy' This initiate problems using radiance within ESP-r. I have tried calculating both DF and glare which both resulted in errors. I have added RAYPATH to my .profile file. I appreciate any help provided :) Best regards Per ______________________ Per Haugaard, Griffenfeldsgade 33, 2.tv 2200 K?benhavn N Denmark mobil: +45 26 39 06 40 E-mail: perhaugaard at yahoo.dk Find din nye laptop p? kelkoo.dk. Se de gode tilbud her - http://dk.yahoo.com/r/pat/mm -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080125/c690cab8/attachment.html From perhaugaard at yahoo.dk Fri Jan 25 14:14:08 2008 From: perhaugaard at yahoo.dk (Per Haugaard) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 14:14:08 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [esp-r] Rayinit Message-ID: <144424.31059.qm@web26613.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Dear EPS-r users I am using Ubuntu Linux and I installed the pre-compiled version of Radiance. It seems that I have solved the previous question I posted just an hour ago regarding gendaylit. But now I have run into problems calculating DF, glare,... for any models??? The visualization process reply with "cannot find function file 'rayinit.cal'" when i initiate the rendering in ESP-r. The missing 'rayinit' file probably initiate the other rendering problems with e.g. 'findglare' and xglaresrc. This file is placed in /opt/esru/bin/Radiance and I have place a path to the file within my .profile file I also have problems terminating the rview command in a terminal. Among other things it does not understand '-av' and '-0.125' ????? Does anyone have an idea what the problem might be and how to solve it? I appreciate any help provided :) Best regards Per ______________________ Per Haugaard, Griffenfeldsgade 33, 2.tv 2200 K?benhavn N Denmark mobil: +45 26 39 06 40 E-mail: perhaugaard at yahoo.dk Tr?nger du til at se det store billede? Kelkoo giver dig gode tilbud p? LCD TV! Se her http://dk.yahoo.com/r/pat/lcd -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080125/feca3065/attachment.html From Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch Fri Jan 25 14:26:39 2008 From: Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch (Geissler Achim) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 15:26:39 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Rayinit References: <144424.31059.qm@web26613.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C331AA6@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Hi Per, we have ESP-r / Radiance on cygwin, only. However, for cygwin the ?can?t find? problems were gone when (a snippet from our in-house ?readme?): ?Include following paths in the ?RAYPATH? environment variable (use the ?standard? Radiance package installed in /opt/radiance; for good measure, include the paths both in $home/.bash_profile and in /etc/bash.bashrc): RAYPATH= .:../lib:/opt/radiance/lib:/opt/radiance/bin ? Regards, Achim ________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Per Haugaard Sent: Friday, January 25, 2008 3:14 PM To: esp-r Subject: [esp-r] Rayinit Dear EPS-r users I am using Ubuntu Linux and I installed the pre-compiled version of Radiance. It seems that I have solved the previous question I posted just an hour ago regarding gendaylit. But now I have run into problems calculating DF, glare,... for any models??? The visualization process reply with "cannot find function file 'rayinit.cal'" when i initiate the rendering in ESP-r. The missing 'rayinit' file probably initiate the other rendering problems with e.g. 'findglare' and xglaresrc. This file is placed in /opt/esru/bin/Radiance and I have place a path to the file within my .profile file I also have problems terminating the rview command in a terminal. Among other things it does not understand '-av' and '-0.125' ????? Does anyone have an idea what the problem might be and how to solve it? I appreciate any help provided :) Best regards Per ______________________ Per Haugaard, Griffenfeldsgade 33, 2.tv 2200 K?benhavn N Denmark mobil: +45 26 39 06 40 E-mail: perhaugaard at yahoo.dk ________________________________ Tr?nger du til at se det store billede? Kelkoo giver dig gode tilbud p? LCD TV ! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080125/f49a5198/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Fri Jan 25 15:04:15 2008 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 15:04:15 -0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Rayinit References: <144424.31059.qm@web26613.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Probably rayint.cal should be placed where the pre-compiled version of Radiance lives (it normally goes under /usr/local). The /opt/esru/bin/Radiance does not have to be used. Indeed the newest version of the installer does not even create the Radiance folder since most people will take the pre-compiled version of Radiance and install it in the default location. Some Linux versions have a different application called rview. This conflicts with Radiance and you probably should move the Linux rview to a different name to removed the name clash. Regards, Jon Hand -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk on behalf of Per Haugaard Sent: Fri 1/25/2008 2:14 PM To: esp-r Subject: [esp-r] Rayinit Dear EPS-r users I am using Ubuntu Linux and I installed the pre-compiled version of Radiance. It seems that I have solved the previous question I posted just an hour ago regarding gendaylit. But now I have run into problems calculating DF, glare,... for any models??? The visualization process reply with "cannot find function file 'rayinit.cal'" when i initiate the rendering in ESP-r. The missing 'rayinit' file probably initiate the other rendering problems with e.g. 'findglare' and xglaresrc. This file is placed in /opt/esru/bin/Radiance and I have place a path to the file within my .profile file I also have problems terminating the rview command in a terminal. Among other things it does not understand '-av' and '-0.125' ????? Does anyone have an idea what the problem might be and how to solve it? I appreciate any help provided :) Best regards Per ______________________ Per Haugaard, Griffenfeldsgade 33, 2.tv 2200 K?benhavn N Denmark mobil: +45 26 39 06 40 E-mail: perhaugaard at yahoo.dk Tr?nger du til at se det store billede? Kelkoo giver dig gode tilbud p? LCD TV! Se her http://dk.yahoo.com/r/pat/lcd From obrien_liam at hotmail.com Fri Jan 25 15:25:52 2008 From: obrien_liam at hotmail.com (Liam O'Brien) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 10:25:52 -0500 Subject: [esp-r] basic airflow question Message-ID: Hello, I have three mutually connected zones. I want each to exchange air with the other two at a rate of 0.1m^3/s. In the operations section, if I send this amount of air from one zone to another, will ESP-r automatically assume that the reverse occurs to maintain constant pressure, or will it blow up the receiving zone like a balloon? Also, when the dialog asks for the source zone for ventilation, it only allows one zone (as far as I can tell), whereas I want exchange with both adjacent zones. Is there are way of having two source zones? Advice would be appreciated. Thanks! Liam _________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080125/715a2c00/attachment-0001.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Fri Jan 25 16:54:44 2008 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 16:54:44 -0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: basic airflow question References: Message-ID: The zone operation file has always had a limitation that it only accepts one other source zone for ventilation between zones. Where users have more than one source zone requires upgrading your model to use an air flow network. In an air flow network there are two general approaches to mixing between zones: a) use a bi-directional flow component so that mixing takes into account both the temperature difference between the rooms as well as pressure differences b) use a volume flow component to for X volume of air from node Y to node Z and a volume flow component to force X volume from Z to Y. In zone operations to represent air mixing between two zones you must include the scheduled ventilation information in both of the zones. ESP-r does not do this automatically. Regards, Jon Hand -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk on behalf of Liam O'Brien Sent: Fri 1/25/2008 3:25 PM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] basic airflow question Hello, I have three mutually connected zones. I want each to exchange air with the other two at a rate of 0.1m^3/s. In the operations section, if I send this amount of air from one zone to another, will ESP-r automatically assume that the reverse occurs to maintain constant pressure, or will it blow up the receiving zone like a balloon? Also, when the dialog asks for the source zone for ventilation, it only allows one zone (as far as I can tell), whereas I want exchange with both adjacent zones. Is there are way of having two source zones? Advice would be appreciated. Thanks! Liam _________________________________________________________________ From obrien_liam at hotmail.com Fri Jan 25 22:57:11 2008 From: obrien_liam at hotmail.com (Liam O'Brien) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 17:57:11 -0500 Subject: [esp-r] Start-up days and quasi steady-state Message-ID: One more question: I am interested in observing the effects of a particular climate pattern for a single day that is repeated many times (i.e. quasi steady-state is reached). I am simulating 36 start up days (to be safe) for a simulation period that lasts only one day. I acknowledge that the ambient temperature should not necessarily be continuous (i.e. temperature at beginning of the day will not match the end). However, I am puzzled by the fact that a large thermal mass in my building does not appear to show any effects at 12:30am of the stored heat from the day before. Basically, the temperature graph of the thermal mass drops from 22C to 19C in an instant. This indicates that a huge amount of energy disappears. I have copied the temperature of the node at the center of the mass: 00h30 19.45 01h30 19.34 02h30 19.24 03h30 19.13 04h30 19.03 05h30 18.93 06h30 18.83 07h30 18.73 08h30 18.66 09h30 18.63 10h30 18.71 11h30 18.92 12h30 19.28 13h30 19.77 14h30 20.36 15h30 20.99 16h30 21.61 17h30 22.15 18h30 22.56 19h30 22.82 20h30 22.93 21h30 22.92 22h30 22.82 23h30 22.66 Since the performance data cannot be viewed for the start up days, it's difficult to see what's really happening. Can anyone suggest what might be happening here? I am using the native Windows version. Any insights would be very helpful. Thanks. Liam O'Brien _________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080125/2e8c75c3/attachment.html From georgios.kokogiannakis at strath.ac.uk Sat Jan 26 15:51:32 2008 From: georgios.kokogiannakis at strath.ac.uk (Georgios Kokogiannakis) Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 15:51:32 -0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Start-up days and quasi steady-state References: Message-ID: <28A6AED1E0DE214894D879115E13AA08677313@BE-SCAM2.ds.strath.ac.uk> Dear Liam, there is some data for the start-up days available in the trace facility. You have to use the "Invoke trace facilities" option (run an interactive simulation to find it). Not sure though about the temperature in your model. It probably depends on the type of building you are trying to study, the boundary conditions, etc. Regards, Georgios -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk on behalf of Liam O'Brien Sent: Fri 25/01/2008 22:57 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Start-up days and quasi steady-state One more question: I am interested in observing the effects of a particular climate pattern for a single day that is repeated many times (i.e. quasi steady-state is reached). I am simulating 36 start up days (to be safe) for a simulation period that lasts only one day. I acknowledge that the ambient temperature should not necessarily be continuous (i.e. temperature at beginning of the day will not match the end). However, I am puzzled by the fact that a large thermal mass in my building does not appear to show any effects at 12:30am of the stored heat from the day before. Basically, the temperature graph of the thermal mass drops from 22C to 19C in an instant. This indicates that a huge amount of energy disappears. I have copied the temperature of the node at the center of the mass: 00h30 19.45 01h30 19.34 02h30 19.24 03h30 19.13 04h30 19.03 05h30 18.93 06h30 18.83 07h30 18.73 08h30 18.66 09h30 18.63 10h30 18.71 11h30 18.92 12h30 19.28 13h30 19.77 14h30 20.36 15h30 20.99 16h30 21.61 17h30 22.15 18h30 22.56 19h30 22.82 20h30 22.93 21h30 22.92 22h30 22.82 23h30 22.66 Since the performance data cannot be viewed for the start up days, it's difficult to see what's really happening. Can anyone suggest what might be happening here? I am using the native Windows version. Any insights would be very helpful. Thanks. Liam O'Brien _________________________________________________________________ From crh at alectia.com Sat Jan 26 18:22:29 2008 From: crh at alectia.com (Christian Anker Hviid) Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 19:22:29 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] airflow network, problems with component type 20/25 Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080126/50810bb2/attachment.html From crh at alectia.com Sun Jan 27 18:24:27 2008 From: crh at alectia.com (Christian Anker Hviid) Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 19:24:27 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] airflow network, problems with component type 20/25 Message-ID: Hello ESP-r community I am modelling a passive ventilation system with the air flow facility in ESP-r. In my system I have a heat exchanger with the characteristics dP = 5.6e-3 x m + 4.8e-5 x m^2 This calls for a quadratic flow component type 20 or 25 to model the heat exchanger in my system. However using any of the two causes this error message: Please check (in the following order) that: - each node has some flow path to a boundary pressure and - iteration convergence control is not too strict Day xx Month xx Hour xx: 100 iterations; flow solution failed Using power law components (e.g. 10, 15 or 17) does not generate this error message and I can't find the iteration convergence control (for integrated simulations). What am I doing wrong? I am using esp-r version 11.2 from learnix. Christian Hviid From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Mon Jan 28 09:09:27 2008 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 09:09:27 -0000 Subject: [esp-r] A new ESP-r tutorial available on the ESRU web site. Message-ID: A new 'do-it-right-the-first-time' tutorial on how to plan and add roof spaces to ESP-r models has been uploaded to the ESP-r web site. Look in the publications page under user manuals. Most users would think roof spaces are just tedious. The 16 page document presents several approaches to speed their creation and limit errors. And roof spaces can be rather more complex in terms of form and construction and heat (and air) flow paths than the occupied spaces they cover. To ensure that your model includes sufficient detail (and no more detail than necessary) the tutorial discusses the translation of drawing details into models of appropriate resolution for a range of performance questions. This part of the tutorial would be of interest to users of other simulation tools. A variant of this document will be included as a chapter in the next version of the ESP-r Cookbook. Regards, Jon Hand From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Tue Jan 29 14:55:03 2008 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 14:55:03 -0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: airflow network, problems with component type 20/25 References: Message-ID: A recent question about air flow components ::I am modelling a passive ventilation system with the air flow facility in ::ESP-r. In my system I have a heat exchanger with the characteristics dP = ::5.6e-3 x m + 4.8e-5 x m^2 ::This calls for a quadratic flow component type 20 or 25 to model the heat ::exchanger in my system. ::However using any of the two causes this error message: ::Please check (in the following order) that: ::- each node has some flow path to a boundary pressure and :: - iteration convergence control is not too strict ::Day xx Month xx Hour xx: 100 iterations; flow solution failed In the simulator you have the option to "turn on trace". This is in the "Invoke trace facilities" option seen after bps starts. If you select the mass flow item it will write out to a file information at each timestep. This might help in finding where the problem is. There are a number of run-time parameters that can be set via the "Simulation toggles" menu option which becomes visible when after you have specified the period of the simulation. If it asks you for a password, it is "101". In the toggle menu are several choices for mass flow. First try increasing the number of iterations. And if you are having trouble with flow convergence shorten your timestep. You can go down to 1 minute and this sometimes allows flow networks to converge better. ::I am using esp-r version 11.2 from learnix. Suggest that you update your version of ESP-r. The current version is 11.4. Regards, Jon Hand From AFerguso at NRCan.gc.ca Tue Jan 29 15:26:23 2008 From: AFerguso at NRCan.gc.ca (Ferguson, Alex) Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 10:26:23 -0500 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Start-up days and quasi steady-state In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Liam, You can access the start-up data if you've compiled a version of ESP-r with support for XML output. When running bps, select "configure H3K Reports" from the integrated simulator menu. Then: - Select "a H3K Reports >> disabled" to enable the facility. - Select "e Report startup period" - Select "f All data" When run, bps will produce a file called out.csv, which will contain (among other things) the temperatures of all layers in the building. I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "Basically, the temperature graph of the thermal mass drops from 22C to 19C in an instant". Remember, results from a discrete simulation do not imply that state variables remain constant over the entire time-step. The solution at each time-step reflects the estimated instantaneous temperatures at that point in time, based on the prevailing conditions at the current and previous time-steps. Results from an hourly simulation showing a temperature change from 22C to 19C suggests a 3 degree drop over an hour. Increasing the time resolution to five-minutes or one-minute may help you discern the cause of this temperature change. Hope that helps, - Alex ________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Liam O'Brien Sent: Friday, January 25, 2008 17:57 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Start-up days and quasi steady-state One more question: I am interested in observing the effects of a particular climate pattern for a single day that is repeated many times (i.e. quasi steady-state is reached). I am simulating 36 start up days (to be safe) for a simulation period that lasts only one day. I acknowledge that the ambient temperature should not necessarily be continuous (i.e. temperature at beginning of the day will not match the end). However, I am puzzled by the fact that a large thermal mass in my building does not appear to show any effects at 12:30am of the stored heat from the day before. Basically, the temperature graph of the thermal mass drops from 22C to 19C in an instant. This indicates that a huge amount of energy disappears. I have copied the temperature of the node at the center of the mass: 00h30 19.45 01h30 19.34 02h30 19.24 03h30 19.13 04h30 19.03 05h30 18.93 06h30 18.83 07h30 18.73 08h30 18.66 09h30 18.63 10h30 18.71 11h30 18.92 12h30 19.28 13h30 19.77 14h30 20.36 15h30 20.99 16h30 21.61 17h30 22.15 18h30 22.56 19h30 22.82 20h30 22.93 21h30 22.92 22h30 22.82 23h30 22.66 Since the performance data cannot be viewed for the start up days, it's difficult to see what's really happening. Can anyone suggest what might be happening here? I am using the native Windows version. Any insights would be very helpful. Thanks. Liam O'Brien ________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080129/7e60170d/attachment-0001.html From esprfans at hotmail.com Thu Jan 31 07:47:36 2008 From: esprfans at hotmail.com (Leepaul) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 15:47:36 +0800 Subject: [esp-r] is it possible to simulate thermal+airflow+lighting with espr? Message-ID: Dear all, is it possible to annually simulate thermal+airflow+lighting with esp-r? I hear from somebody espr can do this combining "RADANCE" software. any anwers are helpful. Paul _________________________________________________________________ ????????????????? http://get.live.cn -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080131/c2a45e77/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Thu Jan 31 09:44:23 2008 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 09:44:23 -0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: is it possible to simulate thermal+airflow+lighting withespr? References: Message-ID: A recent question.... Many users of ESP-r regularly simulation thermal+ network airflow. The standard version of ESP-r works with networks of up to 200 nodes and there are few users who work with networks of that complexity. Sometimes airflow requires short timesteps and that can generate results files greater than 1GB so some users choose to run a series of seasonal simulations. Some specialist users of ESP-r simulation thermal + network airflow + 3D transient CFD. That facility is currently limited by reporting facilities to 1000 timesteps. No one has ever attempted to run an annual 3D transient CFD simulation. And ESP-r can do many types of lighting analysis. It has several in-built methods and methods that can use daylight factors supplied by users and a number of controls for lighting that would be recognised by a lighting engineer. On several types of computers (Linux/OSX/Cygwin-under-windows) ESP-r can ask Radiance to run at each timestep to assess the light falling on sensors and this information can be passed back to ESP-r for control action. Not very many people would choose to use the Radiance option for an annual simulation. One limitation is that ESP-r has limited reporting of the predictions of lighting and this has been corrected and will be available in the next release. And control of lighting can happen in models which also have air flow networks. We have not heard of anyone doing lighting and CFD but there should be no reason why that combination would not also work. -ESRU -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk on behalf of Leepaul Sent: Thu 1/31/2008 7:47 AM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] is it possible to simulate thermal+airflow+lighting withespr? Dear all, is it possible to annually simulate thermal+airflow+lighting with esp-r? I hear from somebody espr can do this combining "RADANCE" software. any anwers are helpful. Paul _________________________________________________________________ ???,???,???,"??"? http://get.live.cn From Leen.Peeters at mech.kuleuven.be Wed Feb 6 15:51:11 2008 From: Leen.Peeters at mech.kuleuven.be (Leen Peeters) Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 16:51:11 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] possible mistake in BCL15? Message-ID: <1202313071.47a9d76fb1f2e@webmail2.kuleuven.be> Dear all, In the BCL15 zone-controller (in bcfunc.F on line 4242), there is a user input requested to set the initial trial test time. It indicates '1' for "user defined" and '2' for "set equal to 4 hours". However, in the code on line 4309 these '1' and '2' are linked differently; if(initim.eq.2)then stinit=4. else if(initim.eq.1)then stinit=bmiscd(icf,idtyp,iper,8) I think they should be switched to ; if(initim.eq.1)then stinit=4. else if(initim.eq.2)then stinit=bmiscd(icf,idtyp,iper,8) On line 4355; C IF FIRST PASS, SET INITIAL TRIAL START TIME, if(lgctin.eq.1.and.irwcnt.eq.0)then stpres=stinit endif C SAVE PRESENT VALUES, if(lgctin.eq.1.and.irwcnt.gt.irwcsv)then stpas2=stpas1 stpas1=stpres stpres=stfut irwcsv=irwcnt endif is a loop that will never be entered, as there is no counter to increase lgctin and its initial value is 0. Shouldn't it be replaced by; C IF FIRST PASS, SET INITIAL TRIAL START TIME, if(lgctin.eq.0.and.irwcnt.eq.0)then stpres=stinit lgctin=lgctin+1 endif C SAVE PRESENT VALUES, if(lgctin.NE.0.and.irwcnt.gt.irwcsv)then stpas2=stpas1 stpas1=stpres stpres=stfut irwcsv=irwcnt lgctin=lgctin+1 endif Thanks, Leen Disclaimer: http://www.kuleuven.be/cwis/email_disclaimer.htm From patrmccormack at gmail.com Wed Feb 6 19:47:08 2008 From: patrmccormack at gmail.com (pat mc cormack) Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 19:47:08 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] admittance Message-ID: <5cef8f8e0802061147n1673c0a0we98d472b96333abf@mail.gmail.com> Hi all, Does anyone know how to use esp-r to calculate the admittance of a multi-layer wall? If so, could this wall include a layer of multi-foil insulation such as tri-iso? (I want to compare a model in esp-r with an admittance based one) Thanks Pat McCormack. -- "Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force; like fire, a troublesome servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action." -- George Washington (1732-1799) Founding Father, 1st US President, 'Father of the Country' Source: in a speech of January 7, 1790 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080206/11701c49/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Thu Feb 7 14:49:02 2008 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 14:49:02 -0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: admittance References: <5cef8f8e0802061147n1673c0a0we98d472b96333abf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: There is a subroutine named admit in the source code of esruprj/prjqa.F which can be called from within esrucom/edatabase.F as part of the reporting of database contents. The lines in edatabase.F which call admit have been commented out so the source file would need to be edited and esp-r rebuilt to include this value in the report. Note that the numbers calculated have only been checked for a limited number of samples and might not be correct. -ESRU -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk on behalf of pat mc cormack Sent: Wed 2/6/2008 7:47 PM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] admittance Hi all, Does anyone know how to use esp-r to calculate the admittance of a multi-layer wall? If so, could this wall include a layer of multi-foil insulation such as tri-iso? (I want to compare a model in esp-r with an admittance based one) Thanks Pat McCormack. -- "Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force; like fire, a troublesome servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action." -- George Washington (1732-1799) Founding Father, 1st US President, 'Father of the Country' Source: in a speech of January 7, 1790 From rodger.edwards at manchester.ac.uk Thu Feb 7 15:17:05 2008 From: rodger.edwards at manchester.ac.uk (Rodger Edwards) Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 15:17:05 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Ground source heat pump Message-ID: <20080207151705.jc5dfxigz9dwgoo4@webmail.manchester.ac.uk> Dear All I have a research student who is interested in modelling the performance of a ground source heat pump within a range of building types. We have identified a means of manipulating our current modelling package to simulate a ground source heat pump in heating mode, but it is a bit clunky. Furthermore, we cannot simulate cooling mode. As a result, we are considering a switch of simulation package, and wondered if anybody in the esp-r community would be able to advise us as to whether our requirement could be met by using this package instead. Any advice gratefully received Thanks Rodger Edwards From jake.zwart at sympatico.ca Thu Feb 7 18:19:44 2008 From: jake.zwart at sympatico.ca (Jake Zwart) Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 13:19:44 -0500 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Ground source heat pump In-Reply-To: <20080207151705.jc5dfxigz9dwgoo4@webmail.manchester.ac.uk> Message-ID: Hi Roger, Instead of answering your question, I will go on a bit of a tangent. My conduction heat transfer professor was very keen in identifying the best coordinate system to model a problem in. So a disc on a half space would be modeled in the oblate spheroidal coordinate system. A vertical (well style) heat exchanger in the ground would be modelled in the prolate spheroidal coordinate system. A tube buried below the surface of the earth would be modelled in the bicylinderical coordinate system. These coordinate systems are well suited to make a miserable 2D or 3D problem into a 1D or maybe a 2D problem. The ground tube to ground interface would be an excellent place to use this approach as it will decrease the dimension of the problem. If you want to follow up on this type of approach, I would recommend obtaining a copy of his textbook, "Advanced Heat Conduction". It has not yet been published but I am sure he would be happy to make a copy available for you. They are available for his graduate students. If that is of interest you can contact him using information at http://www.mme.uwaterloo.ca/research/brochure/yovanovich-br.html. Jake -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk]On Behalf Of Rodger Edwards Sent: Thursday, 07 February, 2008 10:17 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Ground source heat pump Dear All I have a research student who is interested in modelling the performance of a ground source heat pump within a range of building types. We have identified a means of manipulating our current modelling package to simulate a ground source heat pump in heating mode, but it is a bit clunky. Furthermore, we cannot simulate cooling mode. As a result, we are considering a switch of simulation package, and wondered if anybody in the esp-r community would be able to advise us as to whether our requirement could be met by using this package instead. Any advice gratefully received Thanks Rodger Edwards _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From Leen.Peeters at mech.kuleuven.be Mon Feb 11 10:00:29 2008 From: Leen.Peeters at mech.kuleuven.be (Leen Peeters) Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 11:00:29 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Fwd: FW: flyer symposium Building Physics in honour of prof. Hugo Hens Message-ID: <1202724029.47b01cbd31b10@webmail2.kuleuven.be> Dear Madam/Sir Attached you can find the flyer on the Building Physics symposium our lab is organising in honour of prof. Hugo Hens next October. May we ask you to print it and distribute it within your department/faculty/institute/university. Many thanks and kind regards For the organizing committee Greet Bruggemans Secr. Bouwfysica/Building Physics Kasteelpark Arenberg 40 - bus 2447 tel +32-(0)16-32 13 44 fax +32-(0)16-32 19 80 ma/Mo 8.30-17.30, di-wo-do/Tue-Wedn-Thurs 8.30-12.30 ----- End forwarded message ----- Disclaimer: http://www.kuleuven.be/cwis/email_disclaimer.htm -------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: unnamed Url: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080211/0d0b35ba/attachment-0001.ksh -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080211/0d0b35ba/attachment-0001.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: flyersymposium_DEF.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 667185 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080211/0d0b35ba/attachment-0001.pdf From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Mon Feb 11 15:41:20 2008 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 15:41:20 -0000 Subject: [esp-r] FW: admittance further references References: <5cef8f8e0802061147n1673c0a0we98d472b96333abf@mail.gmail.com> <5cef8f8e0802110627n6a65b533pa22dbfaee9aa3914@mail.gmail.com> <200802111512.41307.georgios@esru.strath.ac.uk> Message-ID: A recent question about generating Admittance values for constructions within ESP-r (in addition to the in-built report discussed in earlier emails to the list). The Cibse admittance method is not a clear to understand method in general. Cibse Guide A describes the method in detail and I think that it also has code (Fortran if I remember well) that does some of the calculations. Jeff Spitler and his co-auhors used basic modification of a program that uses the admittance method in a parametric study in: "Spitler J.D., Rees S.J. 1998. Quantitative Comparison of North American and U.K. Cooling Load Calculation Procedures - Methodology. ASHRAE Transactions, 104 (2), pp. 36-46." They call that program: BRE-ADMIT and they reference it as: "Bloomfield, D.P. No date. BRE-ADMIT: Thermal design of buildings. Watford: BRE Publishing, Building Research Establishment". So, it might be better to contact BRE for more details on the method and especially on the existing applications. Regards, Georgios On Monday 11 February 2008 14:59, you wrote: > Could you perhaps point me at some work that derives the CIBSE admittance > procedure from first principles? I put a matlab script together for > multi-layer constructions but get anomalous results compared to CIBSE > examples. From Bjorn.J.Wachenfeldt at sintef.no Mon Feb 11 16:22:29 2008 From: Bjorn.J.Wachenfeldt at sintef.no (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Wachenfeldt_Bj=F8rn_Jenssen?=) Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 17:22:29 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] validation according to EN 15265:2007 Message-ID: <219FE8683CD74F489608E7F616CFD823031AA675@SINTEFXCH01.sintef.no> Has ESP-r been validated according to EN 15265:2007 by anyone yet? In Norway, building simulation programs used to check whether a building complies with the energy performance requirements in the new Norwegian building code (TEK 2007), has to be validated according to this standard. I don't know what the situation is like in other European countries, but if anyone has carried out this validation, or is planning to do so, I would be happy to hear about it. Best regards, Bj?rn J. Wachenfeldt ***************************************************************** Bj?rn J. Wachenfeldt, PhD SINTEF Building and infrastructure 7465 Trondheim Phone: +47 91 89 78 08 Fax: +47 73 59 82 85 Visiting adress: Alfred Getz vei 3, 9. etg i Sentralbygg 1 ***************************************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080211/716ceb4b/attachment.html From spitler at okstate.edu Tue Feb 12 07:17:18 2008 From: spitler at okstate.edu (Jeffrey Spitler) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 07:17:18 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Ground source heat pump In-Reply-To: <20080207151705.jc5dfxigz9dwgoo4@webmail.manchester.ac.uk> References: <20080207151705.jc5dfxigz9dwgoo4@webmail.manchester.ac.uk> Message-ID: <47B147FE.7070407@okstate.edu> Rodger, I'm currently on sabbatical at Strathclyde and will be looking at both the existing esp-r model and at implementing a more generic model of a vertical U-tube ground heat exchanger model. So perhaps I'm not in the best position today to answer your question. However, there has been quite a bit of work done regarding modeling of ground source heat pump systems and their components which should be of interest. Jake has recommended starting with a back-to-fundamentals approach. While this is certainly possible, I could only imagine undertaking this after due consideration of other previously published models and some understanding of the multi-scale nature of the problem. This is especially the case if your ultimate goal is to study GSHP system performance for a range of building types & locations. In short, there are two models that have been "widely" used for studies of the type you are hoping to perform (using a generous definition of "widely" - say appearing in at least several papers). These would be: 1. The Oklahoma State University model, which is an extension of earlier work by Eskilson. It was originally implemented in TRNSYS, but we later switched to HVACSIM+ for several reasons. The original version of the model appeared here: Yavuzturk, C., J.D. Spitler. 1999. /A Short Time Step Response Factor Model for Vertical Ground Loop Heat Exchangers/. ASHRAE Transactions. 105(2):475-485. (This paper and most, but not all, of the OSU papers are available online at www.hvac.okstate.edu) The latest version of the model appeared here: Xu, X., J. D. Spitler. 2006. /Modeling of Vertical Ground Loop Heat Exchangers with Variable Convective Resistance and Thermal Mass of the Fluid/. Proceedings of the 10^th International Conference on Thermal Energy Storage ? Ecostock 2006, Pomona, NJ. An example of the use of the model in the kind of study in which you are interested is here: Underwood, C.P. and J.D. Spitler. 2007. /Analysis of vertical ground loop heat exchangers applied to buildings in the UK/. Building Service Engineering, Research and Technology. 28: 133-159. (Another example here: Rees, S.J., J.D. Spitler, Z. Deng, C.D. Orio and C.N. Johnson. 2004. /A Study Of Geothermal Heat Pump And Standing Column Well Performance/. ASHRAE Transactions, 110(1):3-13. ) Experimental validation is described here: Gentry, J.E., J.D. Spitler, D.E. Fisher, X. Xu. 2006. /Simulation of Hybrid Ground Source Heat Pump Systems and Experimental Validation/. Proceedings of The 7th International Conference on System Simulation in Buildings, Li?ge, Belgium. December 11-13, 2006 and here: Yavuzturk, C., J.D. Spitler. 2001. Field Validation of a Short Time-Step Model for Vertical Ground Loop Heat Exchangers. ASHRAE Transactions, 107(1):617-625. This model has also been implemented in EnergyPlus: Fisher, D. E., S. J. Rees, S. K. Padhmanabhan, A. Murugappan. 2006. Implementation and Validation of Ground-Source Heat Pump System Models in an Integrated Building and System Simulation Environment. HVAC&R Research. 12(3a):693-710. 2. The model currently used in TRNSYS is based on Goran Hellstrom's model of an underground thermal energy storage system that originally appeared in his thesis: Hellstrom, G. (1991). Ground Heat Storage. Thermal Analyses of Duct Storage Systems I: Theory. University of Lund, Department of Mathematical Physics. Lund, Sweden. Most of the documentation of the TRNSYS model appeared in reports rather than papers, but they are referenced here: Thornton, J.W., T.P. McDowell, J.A. Shonder, P.J. Hughes, D. Pahud, and G. Hellstrom. 1997. Residential vertical geothermal heat pump system models: calibration to data. ASHRAE Transactions 103(2): 660?674. From a theoretical standpoint, there remains some question as to the applicability of this model for different configurations of boreholes as the original model assumed the sort of dense packing that would be done if your goal was to store energy seasonally. From a practical standpoint, there have been no experimental studies of sufficient duration to really determine if this is a significant limitation when compared to other uncertainties and approximations involved in modeling ground heat exchangers. In addition, there are a handful of other models which are intended for hourly or similar time-step simulation as well as even more models (e.g. detailed numerical models) which though of some interest, are not really suitable for direct use in a building simulation program. As this e-mail is quite long already, I will demur from giving a list of citations. I hope this helps. Best wishes, Jeff Spitler Rodger Edwards wrote: > Dear All > > I have a research student who is interested in modelling the performance of a > ground source heat pump within a range of building types. We have identified a > means of manipulating our current modelling package to simulate a ground source > heat pump in heating mode, but it is a bit clunky. Furthermore, we cannot > simulate cooling mode. As a result, we are considering a switch of simulation > package, and wondered if anybody in the esp-r community would be able to advise > us as to whether our requirement could be met by using this package instead. > > Any advice gratefully received > > Thanks > > Rodger Edwards > > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > From lhmnjj at 126.com Wed Feb 13 09:01:29 2008 From: lhmnjj at 126.com (lhmnjj at 126.com) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 17:01:29 +0800 (CST) Subject: [esp-r] phase change material Message-ID: <47B2B1E9.00015B.00500@bj126app5.126.com> Hi I want to simulate the phase change materail applied in walls with ESP-r. Who did the similar simulation? We can talk about it. Regards Hongmin Liu ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 2 0 0 7 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080213/3045bf16/attachment.html From Denis.Bourgeois at arc.ulaval.ca Wed Feb 13 16:23:25 2008 From: Denis.Bourgeois at arc.ulaval.ca (Denis J. Bourgeois) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 11:23:25 -0500 Subject: [esp-r] online registration - eSim2008 Message-ID: (apologies for cross-postings) Online Registration - eSim2008 21-22 May 2008 Qu?bec City, Canada http://www.esim.ca/ The 5th IBPSA-Canada Conference, eSim2008, will be hosted by l'?cole d'architecture de la Facult? d'architecture, d'am?nagement et des arts visuels de l'Universit? Laval in collaboration with the National Research Council of Canada, and held in Qu?bec City, Canada on May 21 and 22, 2008. Online registration is now open until Friday, May 16, 2008: http://www.esim.ca/2008/registration.htm Early registration $350 CDN Late registration $400 CDN Student registration $150 CDN Accompanying person (banquet) $100 CDN An IBPSA-Canada membership registration discount of $50 applies to all fees above (except for the accompanying person fee). Note that in order to take advantage of the conference discount for IBPSA-Canada members, first visit http://www.ibpsa.ca/ and join if you are not already a member - it's free, open to everyone, and only takes a couple of minutes. For (full-time) student discounts, send a copy of your valid student card to esim2008 at faaav.ulaval.ca Conference participants can also register online for pre- and post-conference workshops (May 20th and 23rd, 2008): Introduction to EnergyPlus (May 20th and 23rd) NRCan's HOT3000(tm) (May 20th PM) NRC-IRC Software (May 23rd AM) Explore Daylighting Visualization with Autodesk ? 3ds Max ? (May 23rd PM) The deadline for early registration (conference and workshops) is Thursday, March 20, 2008. Authors who want their papers published in the conference proceedings must register before Friday, April 25, 2008. Please keep in mind that Qu?bec will be quite busy at that time of year. Of note (!), the 2008 IIHF Men's World Hockey Championship medal games (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_IIHF_World_Championship) will be held in Qu?bec on May 17th and 18th - a few days only before eSim2008. We expect few hotel vacancies at that time. Arrangements for accommodations have been made for eSim2008 participants (http://www.esim.ca/2008/hotels.htm) but only until the early registration deadline (March 20). ? bient?t! Conference Chair: Dr. Denis Bourgeois denis.bourgeois at arc.ulaval.ca Chair of the Scientific Committee: Dr. Christoph Reinhart christoph.reinhart at nrc-cnrc.gc.ca -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080213/928d0fb1/attachment.html From obrien_liam at hotmail.com Fri Feb 15 14:21:53 2008 From: obrien_liam at hotmail.com (Liam O'Brien) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 09:21:53 -0500 Subject: [esp-r] Solar Obstruction unexpected results Message-ID: Hello All, I am trying to create an overhang for a window. After getting unexpected results (a large overhang over a window on the summer solstice at noon reduced "solar entering from outside" by about 15%), I decided to test an extreme case to confirm proper modeling technique. I created a model with a single window and created an obstruction that is flush against the window and extends beyond it in all directions. Obviously, this should have yielded zero solar entering from outside. However, the results were that sunny days experienced peaks of several thousand Watts of solar entering from outside - hardly negligible. My procedure for creating the obstructions is to enter them as a dimensional input, run the ISH module to define a shd file ("calculate shading"). When I "predict insolation", the synopsis says "glazing totally shaded" for all hours that the sun is up, as expected. I am using the native Windows version of ESP-r. Any thoughts about why I might be getting these results? Thanks! Liam O'Brien _________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080215/109175fc/attachment.html From georgios at esru.strath.ac.uk Fri Feb 15 14:23:17 2008 From: georgios at esru.strath.ac.uk (Georgios Kokogiannakis) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 14:23:17 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: validation according to EN 15265:2007 In-Reply-To: <219FE8683CD74F489608E7F616CFD823031AA675@SINTEFXCH01.sintef.no> References: <219FE8683CD74F489608E7F616CFD823031AA675@SINTEFXCH01.sintef.no> Message-ID: <200802151423.17814.georgios@esru.strath.ac.uk> Hi Bjorn, we briefly looked on the draft versions of this Standard previously. I am not aware if somebody is working on it at the moment. I am planning to prepare the models needed for it if nobody else does but it is not of a high priority at the moment in UK (but I am guessing that it will be soon). I have actually prepared previously the esp-r climate file needed for this Standard using the 45+ pages of data in the available pdf file. The last version that I have is for 2006 - you are mentioning 2007 version at your email (is it the final?). Can you send me this version at a separate email, please? I am happy to send the esp-r climate file to anybody who wants to work with these tests and help him/her to prepare the models. We can then place the models in the validation section of the Project Manager interface where they could be available to anybody. Regards, Georgios On Monday 11 February 2008 16:22, Wachenfeldt Bj?rn Jenssen wrote: > Has ESP-r been validated according to EN 15265:2007 by anyone yet? > > In Norway, building simulation programs used to check whether a building > complies with the energy performance requirements in the new Norwegian > building code (TEK 2007), has to be validated according to this standard. > > I don't know what the situation is like in other European countries, but if > anyone has carried out this validation, or is planning to do so, I would be > happy to hear about it. > > Best regards, > Bj?rn J. Wachenfeldt > > ***************************************************************** > Bj?rn J. Wachenfeldt, PhD > SINTEF Building and infrastructure > 7465 Trondheim > Phone: +47 91 89 78 08 Fax: +47 73 59 82 85 > Visiting adress: Alfred Getz vei 3, 9. etg i Sentralbygg 1 > ***************************************************************** From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Fri Feb 15 15:03:47 2008 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 15:03:47 -0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Solar Obstruction unexpected results References: Message-ID: A question about shading... The important word below is "flush with". Current versions of the shading analysis tool will ignore obstructions which touch the surface or cross over the surface. Leave a gap of several mm. Note: the next version of esp-r does not have this limitation. If you see messages about crossing the plane then your model will have potentially incorrect shading predictions. -ESRU Hello All, I am trying to create an overhang for a window. After getting unexpected results (a large overhang over a window on the summer solstice at noon reduced "solar entering from outside" by about 15%), I decided to test an extreme case to confirm proper modeling technique. I created a model with a single window and created an obstruction that is flush against the window and extends beyond it in all directions. Obviously, this should have yielded zero solar entering from outside. However, the results were that sunny days experienced peaks of several thousand Watts of solar entering from outside - hardly negligible. My procedure for creating the obstructions is to enter them as a dimensional input, run the ISH module to define a shd file ("calculate shading"). When I "predict insolation", the synopsis says "glazing totally shaded" for all hours that the sun is up, as expected. I am using the native Windows version of ESP-r. Any thoughts about why I might be getting these results? Thanks! Liam O'Brien _________________________________________________________________ From obrien_liam at hotmail.com Fri Feb 15 15:47:12 2008 From: obrien_liam at hotmail.com (Liam O'Brien) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 10:47:12 -0500 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Solar Obstruction unexpected results In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Jon et al, Thanks for the response. I moved my massive block 10cm from the window plane. The shading analysis seems to have worked properly (direct sun makes it through the gap between the obstruction and the wall in the summer months early and late in the day, but otherwise not at all). However, the simulation results still don't reflect this. The peak "solar entering from outside" still occurs midday, which is exactly when the direct sun should be completely blocked out. Any thoughts? Thanks. Liam O'Brien > Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 15:03:47 +0000 > From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk > To: obrien_liam at hotmail.com; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Subject: [esp-r] Re: Solar Obstruction unexpected results > > > A question about shading... > > The important word below is "flush with". Current versions of the shading analysis > tool will ignore obstructions which touch the surface or cross over > the surface. Leave a gap of several mm. > > Note: the next version of esp-r does not have this limitation. > > If you see messages about crossing the plane then your > model will have potentially incorrect shading predictions. > > -ESRU > > Hello All, > > I am trying to create an overhang for a window. After getting unexpected results (a large overhang over a window on the summer solstice at noon reduced "solar entering from outside" by about 15%), I decided to test an extreme case to confirm proper modeling technique. I created a model with a single window and created an obstruction that is flush against the window and extends beyond it in all directions. Obviously, this should have yielded zero solar entering from outside. However, the results were that sunny days experienced peaks of several thousand Watts of solar entering from outside - hardly negligible. > > My procedure for creating the obstructions is to enter them as a dimensional input, run the ISH module to define a shd file ("calculate shading"). When I "predict insolation", the synopsis says "glazing totally shaded" for all hours that the sun is up, as expected. > > I am using the native Windows version of ESP-r. > > Any thoughts about why I might be getting these results? Thanks! > > Liam O'Brien > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r _________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080215/f70ad59d/attachment.html From j.hensen at tue.nl Fri Feb 15 15:53:50 2008 From: j.hensen at tue.nl (Hensen, J.L.M.) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 16:53:50 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Journal of Building Performance Simulation Message-ID: Dear , On behalf of the International Building Performance Simulation Association (IBPSA) and Taylor & Francis, we would like to take this opportunity to announce the launch of the Journal of Building Performance Simulation (JBPS) - the first issue is going to be published in March. JBPS is the official journal of IBPSA which is a non-profit international society of computational building performance simulation researchers, developers, practitioners and users, dedicated to improving the design, construction, operation and maintenance of new and existing buildings worldwide. JBPS is an international refereed journal, publishing only articles of the highest quality that are original, cutting-edge, well-researched and of significance to the international community. The journal also publishes original review papers and researched case studies of international significance. Further information about the journal - including instructions for authors and email contents alerting - is available at www.informaworld.com/jbps . We invite you to consider this journal for publishing your research results. Sincerely, Jan Hensen and Ian Beausoleil-Morrison Co-editors of the IBPSA Journal of Building Performance Simulation -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080215/757c13da/attachment.html From Bjorn.J.Wachenfeldt at sintef.no Sat Feb 16 15:38:40 2008 From: Bjorn.J.Wachenfeldt at sintef.no (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Wachenfeldt_Bj=F8rn_Jenssen?=) Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 16:38:40 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: validation according to EN 15265:2007 In-Reply-To: <200802151423.17814.georgios@esru.strath.ac.uk> References: <219FE8683CD74F489608E7F616CFD823031AA675@SINTEFXCH01.sintef.no> <200802151423.17814.georgios@esru.strath.ac.uk> Message-ID: <219FE8683CD74F489608E7F616CFD823031AA68D@SINTEFXCH01.sintef.no> Dear Georgios and Paul Thanks for your answers The standard was approved July 6. 2007, so it is the final version. Unfortunately all rights of exploitation is reserved worldwide for CEN national members. We bought it from Standard Norway, which is the Norwegian CEN member that is responsible for most standardisation areas in Norway. Thus I am unfortunately not allowed to distribute it to you or anyone else on the list. However, although I realise that you have already made an ESP-r climate file, I attach a zipped version of the original climate file i Excel format I got from Thor Endre Lexow in Standard Norway (don't understand the meaning of including this as text in the standard itself, rather than putting it on the web as a downloadable file). Althouth the validation tests described are very simple, the tests might necessitate some source code modification in order to comply with the test-requirements in EN 15265:2007. Since you are more familiar with the ESP-r source code, and have experience with a lot of different validation tests, you should be the right ones to do it. Please let us know how it goes! Best regards, Bj?rn J. Wachenfeldt ****************************************************************** Bj?rn J. Wachenfeldt, dr. ing SINTEF Byggforsk Avd. Bygninger 7465 Trondheim Tlf: 91 89 78 08 Fax: 73 59 82 85 Bes?ksadresse: Alfred Getz vei 3, 9. etg i Sentralbygg 1 ****************************************************************** -----Original Message----- From: Georgios Kokogiannakis [mailto:georgios at esru.strath.ac.uk] Sent: 15. februar 2008 15:23 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Cc: Wachenfeldt Bj?rn Jenssen Subject: Re: [esp-r] validation according to EN 15265:2007 Hi Bjorn, we briefly looked on the draft versions of this Standard previously. I am not aware if somebody is working on it at the moment. I am planning to prepare the models needed for it if nobody else does but it is not of a high priority at the moment in UK (but I am guessing that it will be soon). I have actually prepared previously the esp-r climate file needed for this Standard using the 45+ pages of data in the available pdf file. The last version that I have is for 2006 - you are mentioning 2007 version at your email (is it the final?). Can you send me this version at a separate email, please? I am happy to send the esp-r climate file to anybody who wants to work with these tests and help him/her to prepare the models. We can then place the models in the validation section of the Project Manager interface where they could be available to anybody. Regards, Georgios On Monday 11 February 2008 16:22, Wachenfeldt Bj?rn Jenssen wrote: > Has ESP-r been validated according to EN 15265:2007 by anyone yet? > > In Norway, building simulation programs used to check whether a > building complies with the energy performance requirements in the new > Norwegian building code (TEK 2007), has to be validated according to this standard. > > I don't know what the situation is like in other European countries, > but if anyone has carried out this validation, or is planning to do > so, I would be happy to hear about it. > > Best regards, > Bj?rn J. Wachenfeldt > > ***************************************************************** > Bj?rn J. Wachenfeldt, PhD > SINTEF Building and infrastructure > 7465 Trondheim > Phone: +47 91 89 78 08 Fax: +47 73 59 82 85 Visiting adress: Alfred > Getz vei 3, 9. etg i Sentralbygg 1 > ***************************************************************** -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: EN 15265_Annex A Climatic data_2007.zip Type: application/x-zip-compressed Size: 494701 bytes Desc: EN 15265_Annex A Climatic data_2007.zip Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080216/91925276/attachment-0001.bin From joe at esru.strath.ac.uk Mon Feb 18 14:03:41 2008 From: joe at esru.strath.ac.uk (Joe Clarke) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 14:03:41 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Errors when installing the training models on Solaris In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <47B9903D.40104@esru.strath.ac.uk> Hi Daniel Costola, D. wrote: >I download the version from pre-release_patches on Friday. >It compiles well, and there are no errors. > >The problem is that the training models calculation is strangely slow. >I kill the process before the end, after 4.5 hours! >Just to have a comparison, we checkout the current version from trunk, and it took only 40 minutes to fully install it. > > The cause, I suspect, is the new calculation of diffuse shading. My testing on relatively simple models did not give me cause for concern. However, Jon Hand has pointed out to me the long run-times with exemplar models where these have complex shading devices. To help mitigate this problem I changed the default in ish to an isotropic sky (i.e. one pass of the sky vault per target surface and month-day) rather than anisotropic (each month-day hour reprocessed). While this will reduce the computation load by a factor of 10, it will still lead to long compute times in some cases. Jon and I have discussed the problem and agreed that the solution is to store all zone shading & insolation databases associated with exemplar models in their ascii form (as produced by ish) so that an install will only require an ascii-to-binary conversion. Look out for a posting to this effect in the near future. Regards, Joe -- Professor J A Clarke email: joe at esru.strath.ac.uk ESRU, Dept. of Mechanical Eng. phone: +44 141 548 3986 University of Strathclyde fax: +44 141 552 5105 Glasgow G1 1XJ, UK http://www.esru.strath.ac.uk/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080218/eac2a78e/attachment.html From Gunter.Pueltz at MuellerBBM.de Mon Feb 18 14:12:42 2008 From: Gunter.Pueltz at MuellerBBM.de (Pueltz, Gunter) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 15:12:42 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] CEN standard 13791 + CEN 15251 Message-ID: <2417729F3416D511A27E0090273A963B0278795E@smex01.mbbm.de> Dear ESRUs, following questions concerning the two CEN standards 13791 + 15251: 1) CEN standard 13791: Has ESP-r been successfully validated according to CEN standard 13791 meanwhile ? Your answer to my last request has been very hopefully (see below) ... In case of - Is an official certificate from ESRU available for this successfull validation ? 2) CEN standard 15251: The final version of CEN standard 15251 (2007) includes a special evaluation scheme for acceptable operative (= resultant) temperatures during summer in rooms WITHOUT any cooling plant (see CEN standard 15251, appendix A.2): The maximum operative temperature is defined as a function of "mean ambient air temperature", which must be averaged from ambient air temperatures of the last 7 days (24 hours) - similar to ASHRAE standard no. 55. Now my question: Is a new feature in the res-module available, which is able to do such an evaluation of operative temperatures - similar to the evaluation scheme according to ISO 7730 (valid for rooms WITH a cooling plant) ? As frequencies of overriding the given limitations is also defined in CEN standard 15251, this new feature must be able to calculate the number of yearly hours (or percentage of time), when the given maxima are passed (too high operative temperatures during summer); this must be done according to the defined classes (I - II - III - IV) of thermal comfort (see attached example from the CEN standard 15251); thus an adequate output (perhaps in excel-format ?) would help to perform such an evaluation according to CEN standard 15251 ... To do this evaluation via excel would be very labour-intensive and time consuming :-(((( Regards, Gunter -- Dr. Gunter P?ltz M?ller-BBM GmbH Robert-Koch-Stra?e 11 82152 Planegg Telefon +49 (0)89 85602 - 336 Telefax +49 (0)89 85602 - 111 http://www.MuellerBBM.de HRB M?nchen 86143 Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Bernd Gr?zinger, Dr. Edwin Schorer, Norbert Suritsch > -----Original Message----- > From: P Strachan [mailto:paul at esru.strath.ac.uk] > Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 2:28 PM > To: Pueltz, Gunter > Cc: Jon Hand > Subject: RE: [ESP-r] CEN standard 13791 > > > > Dear Gunter, > > We have to pass the 13791 tests for UK accreditation, > together with other tests. We are in the final stages of this > - I will announce on the list, hopefully in the next 2 weeks, > that all the tests have be passed. > > Regards > Paul > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk on behalf of Pueltz, Gunter > Sent: Wed 09-Aug-06 7:27 AM > To: 'esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk' > Subject: [ESP-r] CEN standard 13791 > > Dear ESRUs, > > the new distribution of ESP-r, ver 11.1, contains several test cases > concerning the CEN standard 13791 (see attached file). > But I am not only interested in the test cases described in > this standard - > I am interested in an official certificate from ESRU, which > validates that > ESP-r does COMPLETELY fullfill the requirements of the CEN > standard 13791 ! > > Is there such an official certificate from ESRU available ? > > -Gunter > > -- > Gunter P?ltz > > M?ller-BBM GmbH > Robert-Koch-Stra?e 11 > 82152 Planegg > Telefon +49 (0)89 85602 - 336 > Telefax +49 (0)89 85602 - 111 > http://www.MuellerBBM.de > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Klassifizierung-Rechnung.png Type: application/octet-stream Size: 16642 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080218/90339408/attachment-0001.obj From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Tue Feb 19 15:35:59 2008 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 15:35:59 -0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: CEN standard 13791 + CEN 15251 References: <2417729F3416D511A27E0090273A963B0278795E@smex01.mbbm.de> Message-ID: A recent question about CEN 15251... ::2) CEN standard 15251: ::The final version of CEN standard 15251 (2007) includes a special evaluation ::scheme for ::acceptable operative (= resultant) temperatures during summer in rooms ::WITHOUT any cooling ::plant (see CEN standard 15251, appendix A.2): ::The maximum operative temperature is defined as a function of "mean ambient ::air temperature", ::which must be averaged from ambient air temperatures of the last 7 days (24 ::hours) - ::similar to ASHRAE standard no. 55. ::Now my question: Is a new feature in the res-module available, which is able ::to ::do such an evaluation of operative temperatures - similar to the evaluation ::scheme ::according to ISO 7730 (valid for rooms WITH a cooling plant) ? The description of the procedure above does seem to be a post-processing issue as ESP-r results analysis generates the raw information needed. There are arbitrary issues in the standard which would have to be detected (e.g. a 4 day simulation would not be allowed). If someone could unambiguously specify the requirements of one or both of these standards (probably not that easy a task given the horrible language that tends to be used in such documents) then this would be a great project for the ESP-r community to undertake! Is anyone in the community interested in contributing some coding for the res module? Those who are not comfortable with coding might volunteer to contribute a "resource" to assist someone else to do the coding? I am certain that staff in ESRU would be willing to help if someone could take the lead. Regards, Jon Hand From aizaz.a.samuel at strath.ac.uk Wed Feb 20 16:10:13 2008 From: aizaz.a.samuel at strath.ac.uk (Aizaz Samuel) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 16:10:13 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Fwd: CEN standard 13791 + CEN 15251 In-Reply-To: <200802201429.03914.georgios@esru.strath.ac.uk> References: <200802201429.03914.georgios@esru.strath.ac.uk> Message-ID: <200802201610.13610.aizaz.a.samuel@strath.ac.uk> Re: CEN 15251 This CEN standard is followed within the current implementation of the building control law called Adaptive Human Comfort. The controller calculates a running mean ambient temperature and uses it to calculate a comfort operative temperature and hence controls heating/cooling. Now whereas comfort conditions and mean temperature are calculated these are not written out to results file. Previously this information has been written out to a text file by hard wiring the source code but should probably be included within results in the future. Regards, Aizaz > ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- > > Subject: [esp-r] CEN standard 13791 + CEN 15251 > Date: Monday 18 February 2008 14:12 > From: "Pueltz, Gunter" > To: "'esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk'" > > Dear ESRUs, > > following questions concerning the two CEN standards 13791 + 15251: > > 1) CEN standard 13791: > Has ESP-r been successfully validated according to CEN standard 13791 > meanwhile ? > Your answer to my last request has been very hopefully (see below) ... > In case of - Is an official certificate from ESRU available for this > successfull validation ? > > 2) CEN standard 15251: > The final version of CEN standard 15251 (2007) includes a special > evaluation scheme for > acceptable operative (= resultant) temperatures during summer in rooms > WITHOUT any cooling > plant (see CEN standard 15251, appendix A.2): > The maximum operative temperature is defined as a function of "mean ambient > air temperature", > which must be averaged from ambient air temperatures of the last 7 days (24 > hours) - > similar to ASHRAE standard no. 55. > Now my question: Is a new feature in the res-module available, which is > able to > do such an evaluation of operative temperatures - similar to the evaluation > scheme > according to ISO 7730 (valid for rooms WITH a cooling plant) ? > As frequencies of overriding the given limitations is also defined in CEN > standard 15251, > this new feature must be able to calculate the number of yearly hours (or > percentage of time), > when the given maxima are passed (too high operative temperatures during > summer); this must be done > according to the defined classes (I - II - III - IV) of thermal comfort > (see attached example from > the CEN standard 15251); thus an adequate output (perhaps in excel-format > ?) would help to perform > such an evaluation according to CEN standard 15251 ... > > To do this evaluation via excel would be very labour-intensive and time > consuming :-(((( > > Regards, > Gunter > > -- > Dr. Gunter P?ltz > > M?ller-BBM GmbH > Robert-Koch-Stra?e 11 > 82152 Planegg > Telefon +49 (0)89 85602 - 336 > Telefax +49 (0)89 85602 - 111 > http://www.MuellerBBM.de > > HRB M?nchen 86143 > Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Bernd Gr?zinger, Dr. Edwin Schorer, Norbert Suritsch > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: P Strachan [mailto:paul at esru.strath.ac.uk] > > Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 2:28 PM > > To: Pueltz, Gunter > > Cc: Jon Hand > > Subject: RE: [ESP-r] CEN standard 13791 > > > > > > > > Dear Gunter, > > > > We have to pass the 13791 tests for UK accreditation, > > together with other tests. We are in the final stages of this > > - I will announce on the list, hopefully in the next 2 weeks, > > that all the tests have be passed. > > > > Regards > > Paul > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk on behalf of Pueltz, Gunter > > Sent: Wed 09-Aug-06 7:27 AM > > To: 'esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk' > > Subject: [ESP-r] CEN standard 13791 > > > > Dear ESRUs, > > > > the new distribution of ESP-r, ver 11.1, contains several test cases > > concerning the CEN standard 13791 (see attached file). > > But I am not only interested in the test cases described in > > this standard - > > I am interested in an official certificate from ESRU, which > > validates that > > ESP-r does COMPLETELY fullfill the requirements of the CEN > > standard 13791 ! > > > > Is there such an official certificate from ESRU available ? > > > > -Gunter > > > > -- > > Gunter P?ltz > > > > M?ller-BBM GmbH > > Robert-Koch-Stra?e 11 > > 82152 Planegg > > Telefon +49 (0)89 85602 - 336 > > Telefax +49 (0)89 85602 - 111 > > http://www.MuellerBBM.de > > ------------------------------------------------------- From esprfans at hotmail.com Fri Feb 22 03:58:05 2008 From: esprfans at hotmail.com (Leepaul) Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 11:58:05 +0800 Subject: [esp-r] Need '*.cnv' file sample Message-ID: Dear all, Could you pls send me a '*.cnv' file ? I want to know its format. Thank you. leepaul _________________________________________________________________ MSN????????????????????? http://im.live.cn/emoticons/?ID=18 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080222/c616d45a/attachment.html From paul at esru.strath.ac.uk Fri Feb 22 09:38:55 2008 From: paul at esru.strath.ac.uk (paul strachan) Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 09:38:55 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: CEN standard 13791 + CEN 15251 In-Reply-To: <2417729F3416D511A27E0090273A963B0278795E@smex01.mbbm.de> References: <2417729F3416D511A27E0090273A963B0278795E@smex01.mbbm.de> Message-ID: <47BE982F.30609@esru.strath.ac.uk> Dear Gunter, With regard to the 13791 standard, the tests have been included in the validation section of ESP-r - select "Standards" in the menu choice. You can run the tests yourself to confirm all are within the Standard tolerance. The models are in the source code distribution ... esp-r/validation/CEN/13791/ Regards Paul Pueltz, Gunter wrote: > Dear ESRUs, > > following questions concerning the two CEN standards 13791 + 15251: > > 1) CEN standard 13791: > Has ESP-r been successfully validated according to CEN standard 13791 > meanwhile ? > Your answer to my last request has been very hopefully (see below) ... > In case of - Is an official certificate from ESRU available for this > successfull validation ? > > 2) CEN standard 15251: > The final version of CEN standard 15251 (2007) includes a special evaluation > scheme for > acceptable operative (= resultant) temperatures during summer in rooms > WITHOUT any cooling > plant (see CEN standard 15251, appendix A.2): > The maximum operative temperature is defined as a function of "mean ambient > air temperature", > which must be averaged from ambient air temperatures of the last 7 days (24 > hours) - > similar to ASHRAE standard no. 55. > Now my question: Is a new feature in the res-module available, which is able > to > do such an evaluation of operative temperatures - similar to the evaluation > scheme > according to ISO 7730 (valid for rooms WITH a cooling plant) ? > As frequencies of overriding the given limitations is also defined in CEN > standard 15251, > this new feature must be able to calculate the number of yearly hours (or > percentage of time), > when the given maxima are passed (too high operative temperatures during > summer); this must be done > according to the defined classes (I - II - III - IV) of thermal comfort (see > attached example from > the CEN standard 15251); thus an adequate output (perhaps in excel-format ?) > would help to perform > such an evaluation according to CEN standard 15251 ... > > To do this evaluation via excel would be very labour-intensive and time > consuming :-(((( > > Regards, > Gunter > > -- > Dr. Gunter P?ltz > > M?ller-BBM GmbH > Robert-Koch-Stra?e 11 > 82152 Planegg > Telefon +49 (0)89 85602 - 336 > Telefax +49 (0)89 85602 - 111 > http://www.MuellerBBM.de > > HRB M?nchen 86143 > Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Bernd Gr?zinger, Dr. Edwin Schorer, Norbert Suritsch > > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: P Strachan [mailto:paul at esru.strath.ac.uk] >> Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 2:28 PM >> To: Pueltz, Gunter >> Cc: Jon Hand >> Subject: RE: [ESP-r] CEN standard 13791 >> >> >> >> Dear Gunter, >> >> We have to pass the 13791 tests for UK accreditation, >> together with other tests. We are in the final stages of this >> - I will announce on the list, hopefully in the next 2 weeks, >> that all the tests have be passed. >> >> Regards >> Paul >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk on behalf of Pueltz, Gunter >> Sent: Wed 09-Aug-06 7:27 AM >> To: 'esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk' >> Subject: [ESP-r] CEN standard 13791 >> >> Dear ESRUs, >> >> the new distribution of ESP-r, ver 11.1, contains several test cases >> concerning the CEN standard 13791 (see attached file). >> But I am not only interested in the test cases described in >> this standard - >> I am interested in an official certificate from ESRU, which >> validates that >> ESP-r does COMPLETELY fullfill the requirements of the CEN >> standard 13791 ! >> >> Is there such an official certificate from ESRU available ? >> >> -Gunter >> >> -- >> Gunter P?ltz >> >> M?ller-BBM GmbH >> Robert-Koch-Stra?e 11 >> 82152 Planegg >> Telefon +49 (0)89 85602 - 336 >> Telefax +49 (0)89 85602 - 111 >> http://www.MuellerBBM.de >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> esp-r mailing list >> esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk >> http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r -- *************************************************************** Dr P A Strachan email: paul at esru.strath.ac.uk ESRU, Dept. of Mechanical Eng. phone: +44 141 548 2041 University of Strathclyde fax: +44 141 552 5105 Glasgow G1 1XJ, UK http://www.esru.strath.ac.uk *************************************************************** From Gunter.Pueltz at MuellerBBM.de Fri Feb 22 09:46:58 2008 From: Gunter.Pueltz at MuellerBBM.de (Pueltz, Gunter) Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 10:46:58 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: CEN standard 13791 + CEN 15251 Message-ID: <2417729F3416D511A27E0090273A963B02787975@smex01.mbbm.de> Dear Paul, nice to hear that ESP-r has been validated successfully according to CEN standard 13791 - congratulation ESRU ! Nevertheless it would help me (and other ESP-r users ?), if an "official certificate" of ESRU with confirmation of the successfull validation of ESP-r would be available. Both - as a download pdf-file and on ESP-r website ... ? Do you think such a certificate by ESRU will be available for all ESP-r users in the future ? Regards, Gunter > -----Original Message----- > From: paul strachan [mailto:paul at esru.strath.ac.uk] > Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 10:39 AM > To: Pueltz, Gunter > Cc: 'esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk' > Subject: Re: [esp-r] CEN standard 13791 + CEN 15251 > > > Dear Gunter, > > With regard to the 13791 standard, the tests have been > included in the > validation section of ESP-r - select "Standards" in the menu choice. > > You can run the tests yourself to confirm all are within the Standard > tolerance. > > The models are in the source code distribution ... > esp-r/validation/CEN/13791/ > > Regards > Paul > > Pueltz, Gunter wrote: > > Dear ESRUs, > > > > following questions concerning the two CEN standards 13791 + 15251: > > > > 1) CEN standard 13791: > > Has ESP-r been successfully validated according to CEN > standard 13791 > > meanwhile ? > > Your answer to my last request has been very hopefully (see > below) ... > > In case of - Is an official certificate from ESRU available for this > > successfull validation ? > > > > 2) CEN standard 15251: > > The final version of CEN standard 15251 (2007) includes a > special evaluation > > scheme for > > acceptable operative (= resultant) temperatures during > summer in rooms > > WITHOUT any cooling > > plant (see CEN standard 15251, appendix A.2): > > The maximum operative temperature is defined as a function > of "mean ambient > > air temperature", > > which must be averaged from ambient air temperatures of the > last 7 days (24 > > hours) - > > similar to ASHRAE standard no. 55. > > Now my question: Is a new feature in the res-module > available, which is able > > to > > do such an evaluation of operative temperatures - similar > to the evaluation > > scheme > > according to ISO 7730 (valid for rooms WITH a cooling plant) ? > > As frequencies of overriding the given limitations is also > defined in CEN > > standard 15251, > > this new feature must be able to calculate the number of > yearly hours (or > > percentage of time), > > when the given maxima are passed (too high operative > temperatures during > > summer); this must be done > > according to the defined classes (I - II - III - IV) of > thermal comfort (see > > attached example from > > the CEN standard 15251); thus an adequate output (perhaps > in excel-format ?) > > would help to perform > > such an evaluation according to CEN standard 15251 ... > > > > To do this evaluation via excel would be very > labour-intensive and time > > consuming :-(((( > > > > Regards, > > Gunter > > > > -- > > Dr. Gunter P?ltz > > > > M?ller-BBM GmbH > > Robert-Koch-Stra?e 11 > > 82152 Planegg > > Telefon +49 (0)89 85602 - 336 > > Telefax +49 (0)89 85602 - 111 > > http://www.MuellerBBM.de > > > > HRB M?nchen 86143 > > Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Bernd Gr?zinger, Dr. Edwin Schorer, > Norbert Suritsch > > > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: P Strachan [mailto:paul at esru.strath.ac.uk] > >> Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 2:28 PM > >> To: Pueltz, Gunter > >> Cc: Jon Hand > >> Subject: RE: [ESP-r] CEN standard 13791 > >> > >> > >> > >> Dear Gunter, > >> > >> We have to pass the 13791 tests for UK accreditation, > >> together with other tests. We are in the final stages of this > >> - I will announce on the list, hopefully in the next 2 weeks, > >> that all the tests have be passed. > >> > >> Regards > >> Paul > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: owner-esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk on behalf of Pueltz, Gunter > >> Sent: Wed 09-Aug-06 7:27 AM > >> To: 'esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk' > >> Subject: [ESP-r] CEN standard 13791 > >> > >> Dear ESRUs, > >> > >> the new distribution of ESP-r, ver 11.1, contains several > test cases > >> concerning the CEN standard 13791 (see attached file). > >> But I am not only interested in the test cases described in > >> this standard - > >> I am interested in an official certificate from ESRU, which > >> validates that > >> ESP-r does COMPLETELY fullfill the requirements of the CEN > >> standard 13791 ! > >> > >> Is there such an official certificate from ESRU available ? > >> > >> -Gunter > >> > >> -- > >> Gunter P?ltz > >> > >> M?ller-BBM GmbH > >> Robert-Koch-Stra?e 11 > >> 82152 Planegg > >> Telefon +49 (0)89 85602 - 336 > >> Telefax +49 (0)89 85602 - 111 > >> http://www.MuellerBBM.de > >> > >> > >> > >> > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> esp-r mailing list > >> esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > >> http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > > -- > *************************************************************** > Dr P A Strachan email: paul at esru.strath.ac.uk > ESRU, Dept. of Mechanical Eng. phone: +44 141 548 2041 > University of Strathclyde fax: +44 141 552 5105 > Glasgow G1 1XJ, UK http://www.esru.strath.ac.uk > *************************************************************** > From zhongqiu at cityu.edu.hk Fri Feb 22 14:37:09 2008 From: zhongqiu at cityu.edu.hk (Dr.QIU) Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 22:37:09 +0800 Subject: [esp-r] Convective heat transfer coefficient Message-ID: <0JWN008ZV9XXW770@smtp04.cityu.edu.hk> Dear all, Could you pls tell me what equation is used to calculate Convective heat transfer coefficient of the internal surface of the wall? And how to change this equation in source code? thank you in advance. Qiu ????????Dr.QIU ????????zhongqiu at cityu.edu.hk ??????????2008-02-22 From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Fri Feb 22 15:38:57 2008 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 15:38:57 -0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Convective heat transfer coefficient References: <0JWN008ZV9XXW770@smtp04.cityu.edu.hk> Message-ID: There is no single equation. There are a number of different equations that can be invoked depending on the users preferences. The PhD thesis by Ian Beausoleil-Morrison (can be found on the ESRU publications page) will tell you lots about the theory and implementation. You could also look at the book by Joe Clarke 2001 book Energy Simulatin in Building Design (2nd Edn). Looking in esrubld/convect1.F and esrubld/convect2.F will cover most of the implementation. And there is a TRACE facility available when you run a simulation which will tell you which correlation is being used for each surface at each timestep. -ESRU -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk on behalf of Dr.QIU Sent: Fri 2/22/2008 2:37 PM To: esp-r Subject: [esp-r] Convective heat transfer coefficient Dear all, Could you pls tell me what equation is used to calculate Convective heat transfer coefficient of the internal surface of the wall? And how to change this equation in source code? thank you in advance. Qiu ????????Dr.QIU ????????zhongqiu at cityu.edu.hk ??????????2008-02-22 _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch Fri Feb 22 15:49:28 2008 From: Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch (Geissler Achim) Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 16:49:28 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Convective heat transfer coefficient References: <0JWN008ZV9XXW770@smtp04.cityu.edu.hk> Message-ID: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C391811@sgartgum1.gart.intra> ESP-r features (at least) the possibility to (a) set heat transfer coefficients explicitly per surface or (b) have a "switching mechanism", also per surface. Both can be invoked via a "heat transfer file" (look in the "composition" => "convection coefficients"). This generates a ".htc" file ... in which the options are set by "toggles" or explicit values. A list of the main equations used can be found in "http://www.esru.strath.ac.uk/Documents/PhD/beausoleil-morrison_thesis.pdf" (publications page of ESRU) on page 19. Mit freundlichen Gr?ssen / Best regards Achim Geissler > -----Original Message----- > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r- > bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Dr.QIU > Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 3:37 PM > To: esp-r > Subject: [esp-r] Convective heat transfer coefficient > > Dear all, > > Could you pls tell me what equation is used to calculate Convective heat > transfer coefficient of the internal surface of the wall? And how to > change this equation in source code? > > thank you in advance. > Qiu > > ????????Dr.QIU > ????????zhongqiu at cityu.edu.hk > ??????????2008-02-22 > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From zhongqiu at cityu.edu.hk Mon Feb 25 04:08:17 2008 From: zhongqiu at cityu.edu.hk (Dr.QIU) Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 12:08:17 +0800 Subject: [esp-r] Convective heat transfer coefficient Message-ID: <0JWS00IDS0TT6NB0@smtp04.cityu.edu.hk> Dear all, I want to write a "convective heat transfer"-".htc" file. I have 2 queations, 1 If my simulation period is 2 weeks even one year, but my *.cnv file consists of one typical day's data of each time step. Is that ok? 2 I have alternative options when I write "convective heat transfer" file, one option is to give every surface's convection for the first time step, subsquently the next time step, while the other option is to give each time-step's convection for one surface, subsquently the next surface, which option is correct? thank you in advance. Qiu ????????Dr.QIU ????????zhongqiu at cityu.edu.hk ??????????2008-02-22 From gkanagaraj83 at gmail.com Tue Feb 26 10:08:39 2008 From: gkanagaraj83 at gmail.com (kanagaraj ganesan) Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 11:08:39 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] evaporative cooling help required Message-ID: <5bcade3d0802260208l27672418k4855de79f98ad62e@mail.gmail.com> hello everyone, I am G.Kanagaraj doing M.S by research from Univ. of Stuttgart. I need to model a evaporative cooling effect of fountain in a courtyard and cooling through creepers in the building facade. I am currently using window version of Esp-r. I looked at Evaporative surface option in the control loop, period settings. it has two options of wetted surface and swimming pool definition. I tried using these options but failed to understand how the principle behind this options work. If someone has used these options before or can contribute towards analysing above mentioned strategies, i would be grateful. thanks in advance, regads kanag G.KANAGARAJ (DAAD-IIT MADRAS) 42-A, ROOM NO.-304 PFAFFENWALDRING UNIVERSITAT STUTTGART 70569 STUTTGART Mob. No. :- 004917620470230 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080226/db544950/attachment.html From treeck at bv.tu-muenchen.de Tue Feb 26 19:06:44 2008 From: treeck at bv.tu-muenchen.de (Christoph van Treeck) Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 20:06:44 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] IBPSA-Germany: BauSIM2008 Announcement Message-ID: <007e01c878aa$ba6984b0$1d31980a@hookipa> (apologies for cross-postings!) Dear Colleagues, it is our pleasure to announce the second local bi-annual conference of IBPSA-Germany which will be held in Kassel, Germany on September 8-10, 2008 at the University of Kassel. The main focus will be placed on the topic "Sustainable and energy efficient building design". BauSIM2008 brings together practitioners, researchers and developers working in the field of building performance simulation and related applications. The deadline for submitting abstracts is April 30, 2008. A number of selected contributions will be subject to a publication in the journal BAUPHYSIK (publisher: Ernst&Sohn). The conference website will soon be available at: http://bausim.ibpsa-germany.org Best regards Christoph van Treeck (IBPSA-Germany) -- Mit freundlichen Gr?ssen / Kind Regards Christoph van Treeck *************************************************************** Dr.-Ing. Christoph van Treeck Gruppenleiter Lehrstuhl fuer Computation in Engineering Prof. Dr. rer.nat. Ernst Rank Fakultaet Bauingenieur- und Vermessungswesen Technische Universitaet Muenchen Arcisstrasse 21 D-80290 Muenchen Tel: +49 (0)89 289-23044 Fax: +49 (0)89 289-25051 eMail: treeck at bv.tum.de Internet: www.inf.bv.tum.de/~treeck IBPSA: www.ibpsa-germany.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080226/ec43a7b1/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 6758 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080226/ec43a7b1/attachment.jpe From obrien_liam at hotmail.com Tue Feb 26 21:09:57 2008 From: obrien_liam at hotmail.com (Liam O'Brien) Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 16:09:57 -0500 Subject: [esp-r] blind control Message-ID: Hello All, I want to model motorized blinds (for now, simple 2-position roller blinds). I would like to control their position based on current normal solar irradiation, for example. I tried finding information on how I might approach this, but the most relevant information I found was in the electrochromic exemplar. However, it wasn't evident to me where the controls information was. If anyone can point me in the direction of information for the following two concepts, I would be very appreciative: 1) Where one can actually specify the control scheme and the associated optical properties file in the GUI. I.e. use optical properties A under X circumstances and optical properties B under Y circumstances 2) Any other case studies or exemplars for blind control. Thanks in advance. Liam O'Brien _________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080226/837b6361/attachment-0001.html From Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch Wed Feb 27 07:10:39 2008 From: Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch (Geissler Achim) Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 08:10:39 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: blind control References: Message-ID: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C391AF3@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Liam, you can change optical properties based on solar incidence on a surface. You need to look in the "transparent surfaces" menu items, somewhere there is "control" and you are asked a few questions. I have found it easier to directly edit the .tmc file, though, as soon as it is basically set up. It would look something like # transparent properties of office_wsw defined in ../zones/office.tmc 8 # surfaces # tmc index for each surface 1,0,2,0,0,0,0,0 5 ip6834_binup # layers in tmc type 1 # Transmission @ 5 angles & visible tr. 0.311 0.293 0.260 0.184 0.090 0.642 # For each layer absorption @ 5 angles 0.314 0.327 0.340 0.355 0.344 0.001 0.001 0.001 0.001 0.001 0.047 0.050 0.052 0.053 0.052 0.001 0.001 0.001 0.001 0.001 0.001 0.001 0.001 0.001 0.001 1 # optical control flag 1 1 # no control periods & sensor loc # Replacement properties for each control period 0 24 # period start and end 0 200.0 # sensing total radiation @ actuation point # Alt solar & vis trans followed by absorp for each layer 0.131 0.054 0.045 0.030 0.014 0.274 0.336 0.360 0.370 0.377 0.355 0.001 0.001 0.001 0.001 0.001 0.063 0.074 0.074 0.071 0.063 0.001 0.001 0.001 0.001 0.001 0.089 0.104 0.091 0.064 0.031 0 1 tran_fictit # layers in tmc type 2 # Transmission @ 5 angles & visible tr. 0.999 0.999 0.999 0.999 0.999 0.999 # For each layer absorption @ 5 angles 0.001 0.001 0.001 0.001 0.001 0 # optical control flag for an insulating glazing unit with blind (modeled as 5-layer TMC - a very coarse approach) switched at 200 W/m2 on surface 1 (you can have two switching periods - i.e. three tmc data sets between which the switching happens, however, we have had reservations on if the "middle" situation is actually ever used) ... hope that helps. Regards, Achim Mit freundlichen Gr?ssen / Best regards Achim Geissler ________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Liam O'Brien Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 10:10 PM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] blind control Hello All, I want to model motorized blinds (for now, simple 2-position roller blinds). I would like to control their position based on current normal solar irradiation, for example. I tried finding information on how I might approach this, but the most relevant information I found was in the electrochromic exemplar. However, it wasn't evident to me where the controls information was. If anyone can point me in the direction of information for the following two concepts, I would be very appreciative: 1) Where one can actually specify the control scheme and the associated optical properties file in the GUI. I.e. use optical properties A under X circumstances and optical properties B under Y circumstances 2) Any other case studies or exemplars for blind control. Thanks in advance. Liam O'Brien ________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080227/39f9c849/attachment.html From Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch Wed Feb 27 07:45:14 2008 From: Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch (Geissler Achim) Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 08:45:14 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Convective heat transfer coefficient References: <0JWS00IDS0TT6NB0@smtp04.cityu.edu.hk> Message-ID: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C391B02@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Qiu, I do not quite understand your question. The "periods" mentioned in the .htc generation are "per day", as in internal loads, for example. They have nothing to do with how long you run your simulation, they are used over and over again for every simulated day. A file with two periods - p1 from midnight to 8:00, p2 from 8:00 to midnight may look like ==== *HC_CTL for zone TheBox *Date,Wed Feb 27 08:37:48 2008 2 # number control intervals 6 # number of surfaces # (South East Wall-3 West Top-5 Base-6) 0.00 8.00 # start and end time of interval 4 # CEN calculation control type *Doc,CEN user edited hc coefficients *basetop 0.0 0.0 # index (within the zone) of a typcial base & top *floor 5.000 0.700 8.000 # CEN floor upwd_inside, downwd_inside, external *ceiling 5.000 0.700 8.000 # CEN ceiling upwd_inside, downwd_inside, external *slope 5.000 0.700 8.000 # CEN sloped upwd_inside, downwd_inside, external *wall 2.500 2.500 16.000 # CEN wall inside, partition, external 8.00 24.00 # start and end time of interval 3 # adaptive calculation control type *Doc,User supplied adaptive hc correlations 1. -1. -1. 0. 99. 99. 99. 99. 99. 99. 99. 99. 99. 99. 99. 99. 99. 99. 99. 99. 99. 99. 99. 99. 99. 99. 99. 99. 99. 99. 99. 99. 99. 99. 99. 99. 99. 99. 99. 99. 99. 99. 99. 99. 99. 99. 99. 99. 0 0.000 0.000# Air origin zone (+ chan. width and height if Bar-Cohen corr.) ==== when period 1 uses fixed CEN values and period two has "adaptive control" on surface one, inside and no changes (I am also not quite sure, what is used, then) on all other surfaces. (ESRU: The help texts for these features could be more informative) A simulation run with trace on heat transfer coefficients would probably help clarify what is happening, Qiu. Mit freundlichen Gr?ssen / Best regards Achim Geissler > -----Original Message----- > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r- > bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Dr.QIU > Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 5:08 AM > To: esp-r > Subject: [esp-r] Convective heat transfer coefficient > > Dear all, > > I want to write a "convective heat transfer"-".htc" file. > I have 2 queations, > > 1 If my simulation period is 2 weeks even one year, but my *.cnv file > consists of one typical day's data of each time step. Is that ok? > > 2 I have alternative options when I write "convective heat transfer" file, > one option is to give every surface's convection for the first time step, > subsquently the next time step, while the other option is to give each > time-step's convection for one surface, subsquently the next surface, > which option is correct? > > thank you in advance. > Qiu > > ????????Dr.QIU > ????????zhongqiu at cityu.edu.hk > ??????????2008-02-22 > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch Wed Feb 27 12:50:27 2008 From: Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch (Geissler Achim) Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 13:50:27 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Uncertainty Analysis Message-ID: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C391BA1@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Hi all, has anybody recently used the "uncertainty analysis" feature of ESP-r? I did succeed in setting up a seemingly working .ual file (though editing this is quite tricky, as contents are often erased by the project manager interface) and running a simulation in "differential" mode - according to >help< the only mode actually available - which automatically did a few runs ... that seemed O.K. The results also seem to be affected between the runs. However, I would be interested, if (a) this feature is being / has been "kept up to date" in the current versions, i.e. is viewed to be usable? (b) my observation, that an air flow network connected with a model with uncertainty analysis seems not to be rerun for each of the automatic, consecutive runs? In any case, the time stamp of the air flow results file does not change. (c) it is possible to somehow extract the actual changes in parameters from the results file? That would be good to be able to cross check if the simulations used the parameter variations I had intended ... (d) there is an up-to-date description of the input parameters / file structure / toggle switches etc.? Most of the >help< texts are empty. Thanks for any input, Regards, Achim -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080227/10de1987/attachment.html From paul at esru.strath.ac.uk Mon Mar 3 11:17:48 2008 From: paul at esru.strath.ac.uk (paul strachan) Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2008 11:17:48 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: CEN standard 13791 + CEN 15251 In-Reply-To: <2417729F3416D511A27E0090273A963B02787975@smex01.mbbm.de> References: <2417729F3416D511A27E0090273A963B02787975@smex01.mbbm.de> Message-ID: <47CBDE5C.6040504@esru.strath.ac.uk> Dear Gunter, There is now a report on the test results for CEN 13791 at this location: http://www.esru.strath.ac.uk/Documents/CEN_Standards_ESP-r_test_results.pdf I hope this will be sufficient for your purposes. Regards Paul Pueltz, Gunter wrote: > Dear Paul, > > nice to hear that ESP-r has been validated successfully according > to CEN standard 13791 - congratulation ESRU ! > > Nevertheless it would help me (and other ESP-r users ?), if an > "official certificate" of ESRU with confirmation of the > successfull validation of ESP-r would be available. > Both - as a download pdf-file and on ESP-r website ... ? > > Do you think such a certificate by ESRU will be available > for all ESP-r users in the future ? > > Regards, > Gunter > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: paul strachan [mailto:paul at esru.strath.ac.uk] >> Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 10:39 AM >> To: Pueltz, Gunter >> Cc: 'esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk' >> Subject: Re: [esp-r] CEN standard 13791 + CEN 15251 >> >> >> Dear Gunter, >> >> With regard to the 13791 standard, the tests have been >> included in the >> validation section of ESP-r - select "Standards" in the menu choice. >> >> You can run the tests yourself to confirm all are within the Standard >> tolerance. >> >> The models are in the source code distribution ... >> esp-r/validation/CEN/13791/ >> >> Regards >> Paul >> >> From froshin at dasskorea.com Wed Mar 5 06:08:44 2008 From: froshin at dasskorea.com (=?euc-kr?B?TGV3aXMgWW9vaw==?=) Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2008 15:08:44 +0900 Subject: [esp-r] =?euc-kr?q?VAV_and_Positive_Air_Pressure_Control?= Message-ID: <120469732430242639@froshin> Dear All. This question is about VAV in control function. Let me assume one zone to which 100 CMH air volume is supplied for heating. And the 90 CMH air volume is returned through diffuser in the same zone. The surplus 10 CMH air supply volume plays the role of the source of positive net pressure that prevents the air infiltration from the adjacent zones. In this case, how should i set the the max air volume flow rate in control law? 1) Real volume 100 CMH? or net volume 10 CMH? 2) How can I describe the supply and return separately in VAV control law? And, I have done above simulation with the setting of the supply air volume as net volume 10 CMH. I found some strange results which seem to be fluctuating. In other words, in some nodes, the flow direction changes in every time step from positive to negative and from negative to positive. I tried to adjust the time step. However, the flow direction fluctuates between positive and negative value regardless of the time step. 3) Do you think this kind of pattern can be obtained in VAV control? I appreciate for your interests and ideas. Lewis Yook Team Manager, Integrated Simulation Team. Design and Simulation for Sustainability (DASS) consultants Ltd. 139-743 31-dong(Business Incubator Center) 103-ho, Seoul National University of Technology 174 Gongreung 2-dong Nowon-gu, Seoul, Korea T. 82.2.913.2585 F. 82.2.949.2585 H. www.dasskorea.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080305/b418fb29/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Fri Mar 7 15:23:44 2008 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 15:23:44 -0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: VAV and Positive Air Pressure Control References: <120469732430242639@froshin> Message-ID: A recent question (below)... If the "VAV control function" is the one in the ideal zone controls it does not assume any relationship with an air flow network and no air flow network is required when using this ideal zone control. The zone controller has a number of parameters (source temperature, throttling range etc.) but there is no parameter which describes the specific characteristics of a return path. There is an exemplar model which demonstrates the use of this zone control and you might want to look at that model. If the "VAV control function" is for an air flow network control there isn't one labeled as "VAV". You could join several flow components and controls to approximate the actions of a VAV. In a flow network you are able to describe connections to other zones and to the outside e.g. the return path. And if you want the return air to be some fixed percentage of the incoming air that is going to take a rather clever flow control (there is no example of this). The question is not quite clear how the 90CMH is represented in the model. If a flow network is being used please re-submit the question and include a sketch of the flow network. -Jon Hand -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk on behalf of Lewis Yook Sent: Wed 3/5/2008 6:08 AM To: ESP-r User Forum Subject: [esp-r] VAV and Positive Air Pressure Control Dear All. This question is about VAV in control function. Let me assume one zone to which 100 CMH air volume is supplied for heating. And the 90 CMH air volume is returned through diffuser in the same zone. The surplus 10 CMH air supply volume plays the role of the source of positive net pressure that prevents the air infiltration from the adjacent zones. In this case, how should i set the the max air volume flow rate in control law? 1) Real volume 100 CMH? or net volume 10 CMH? 2) How can I describe the supply and return separately in VAV control law? And, I have done above simulation with the setting of the supply air volume as net volume 10 CMH. I found some strange results which seem to be fluctuating. In other words, in some nodes, the flow direction changes in every time step from positive to negative and from negative to positive. I tried to adjust the time step. However, the flow direction fluctuates between positive and negative value regardless of the time step. 3) Do you think this kind of pattern can be obtained in VAV control? I appreciate for your interests and ideas. Lewis Yook Team Manager, Integrated Simulation Team. Design and Simulation for Sustainability (DASS) consultants Ltd. 139-743 31-dong(Business Incubator Center) 103-ho, Seoul National University of Technology 174 Gongreung 2-dong Nowon-gu, Seoul, Korea T. 82.2.913.2585 F. 82.2.949.2585 H. www.dasskorea.com From zhongqiu at cityu.edu.hk Mon Mar 10 08:48:06 2008 From: zhongqiu at cityu.edu.hk (Dr.QIU) Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 16:48:06 +0800 Subject: [esp-r] how to define the "null surface"? Message-ID: <0JXI00GRYB44HO60@smtp04.cityu.edu.hk> Dear all, I want to perform thermal simulation. In my geometry model, one zone has a "null surface", which locates at the up/downstair hole between two floors. how to define the construction attribute for this "null surface"? thank you in advance. Qiu ??????? From Monika.Hall at josef-gartner.ch Mon Mar 10 09:37:59 2008 From: Monika.Hall at josef-gartner.ch (Hall Monika) Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 10:37:59 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: how to define the "null surface"? References: <0JXI00GRYB44HO60@smtp04.cityu.edu.hk> Message-ID: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C3BE234@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Hi Qiu, You can create a fictitious surface with "no" mass, high transmission and "no" absorption Optics.db tran_fictit :fictitious surface # def lyr, tmc lyr, vis trn, sol refl, sol absor, U val 1 1 0.990 0.001 0.001 9.000 # direct trn @ 5 angles, total heat gain @ 5 angles 0.990 0.990 0.990 0.990 0.990 0.990 0.990 0.990 0.990 0.990 # refr index, absorption @ 5 angles for each tmc layer 1.000 0.001 0.001 0.001 0.001 0.001 Construction.db # layers description optics name symmetry tag 1 fictit TRAN tran_fictit SYMMETRIC # mat ref thickness (m) mat descr & air gap R 383 0.0010 fictitious Material.db xxx fictitious 20.000, 10.000, 10.000, 0.990, 0.010, 19200.000 Best regards Monika -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Dr.QIU Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 9:48 AM To: esp-r Subject: [esp-r] how to define the "null surface"? Dear all, I want to perform thermal simulation. In my geometry model, one zone has a "null surface", which locates at the up/downstair hole between two floors. how to define the construction attribute for this "null surface"? thank you in advance. Qiu ??????? _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From laxsts at nottingham.ac.uk Mon Mar 10 16:37:03 2008 From: laxsts at nottingham.ac.uk (Smith Stefan) Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 16:37:03 -0000 Subject: [esp-r] Simulation Results with Zone Temp = nan Message-ID: <28595D3B6B6116438C3AB5A9AFFC131728908F@VUIEXCH2.ad.nottingham.ac.uk> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080310/b90a4680/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Tue Mar 11 09:45:06 2008 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 09:45:06 -0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Simulation Results with Zone Temp = nan References: <28595D3B6B6116438C3AB5A9AFFC131728908F@VUIEXCH2.ad.nottingham.ac.uk> Message-ID: A recent question about a model generating NAN... ::I have generated a simple model of a 1 storey, 1 zoned building. The zone geometry, construction and operation details are all ::set. I have also set a zone control with a basic controller with 3 control periods for a weekday and 1 for Saturday and Sunday. On ::the Sunday I have set the control to 'free float'. ::When I run the simulation it completes very quickly - suggesting its not doing much. Looking at the results no heating load is ::associated with the zone and the zone temperature value is 'nan'. As far as I can tell I have set everything up correctly. I've ::checked the .ctl file is being picked up (by running the simulation interactively) and I have compared files against a different ::model that is working and can't see any obvious differences (i.e. omitted data). ::If anyone has an idea what might be causing this, or if there are a list of steps I should follow to ensure the model's validity I ::would be grateful for the advice. There have been a few discussions about model checking. A summary: a) generate a model QA report, print it out and review it in conjunction with the model details shown in the interface b) get someone else to look over your model (pass them the QA report) c) reports of NAN are most often linked to controls so try running the model with no control (defererence the control file). d) rebuild the zone construction files (in case the layers got confused) e) run the model for short test periods to see if the fault is related to boundary conditions f) run another model to prove that esp-r is still working (you might have changed something not related to the model) g) use the 'trace' facilities in the simulator to look at the intermediate results Actually NAN tends to slow down computations. And a one zone model will often run on modern machines in only a few seconds. Regards, Jon Hand From obrien_liam at hotmail.com Wed Mar 12 21:51:24 2008 From: obrien_liam at hotmail.com (Liam O'Brien) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 17:51:24 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] Low-e coatings Message-ID: Hello, I want to model a low-e coating on a new window construction. As far as I can tell, materials (i.e. glass) are defined as homogeneous in the materials library, and thus have a single emissivity value. However, clearly a low-e coating will cause the glass to have two different emissivity values. Could anyone share how they have modeled this? Also, it would be useful in future versions of ESP-r to have fill gases other than air. I know the properties of the air can be changed, but it would save a step to be able to choose argon or krypton, for example. Thanks! Liam O'Brien _________________________________________________________________ Create a handy button so your friends can add U to their buddy list. Try it now! http://g.msn.ca/ca55/211 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080312/56b76a5b/attachment.html From obrien_liam at hotmail.com Wed Mar 12 22:00:23 2008 From: obrien_liam at hotmail.com (Liam O'Brien) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 18:00:23 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] Low-e coatings Message-ID: Hello, I want to model a low-e coating on a new window construction. As far as I can tell, materials (i.e. glass) are defined as homogeneous in the materials library, and thus have a single emissivity value. However, clearly a low-e coating will cause the glass to have two different emissivity values. Could anyone share how they have modeled this? Also, it would be useful in future versions of ESP-r to have fill gases other than air. I know the properties of the air can be changed, but it would save a step to be able to choose argon or krypton, for example. Thanks! Liam O'Brien _________________________________________________________________ At a loss for words? Find them by playing Seekadoo! Play now! http://g.msn.ca/ca55/208 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080312/280e38e7/attachment.html From Denis.Bourgeois at arc.ulaval.ca Wed Mar 12 22:25:45 2008 From: Denis.Bourgeois at arc.ulaval.ca (Denis J. Bourgeois) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 18:25:45 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] RE : Low-e coatings In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Liam, The radiation exchanges between surfaces separated by an air gap within a construction are not explicitly modelled / simulated in ESP-r - rather the effective thermal resistance of the air gap in the zone's construction file (.con) can be adjusted to account for various gases and low-e coatings in a sealed glass unit. Using WIS or LBNL's WINDOW, you can derive the effective gap resistance for a given window from the entire unit U value, and individual glass pane thicknesses and conductivities. You should also tweak values to account for framing effects (both in .con and .tmc files). Hope this helps, Denis Bourgeois -----Message d'origine----- De : esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] De la part de Liam O'Brien Envoy? : March 12, 2008 5:51 PM ? : esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Objet : [esp-r] Low-e coatings Hello, I want to model a low-e coating on a new window construction. As far as I can tell, materials (i.e. glass) are defined as homogeneous in the materials library, and thus have a single emissivity value. However, clearly a low-e coating will cause the glass to have two different emissivity values. Could anyone share how they have modeled this? Also, it would be useful in future versions of ESP-r to have fill gases other than air. I know the properties of the air can be changed, but it would save a step to be able to choose argon or krypton, for example. Thanks! Liam O'Brien ________________________________ Access your files from anywhere with Windows Live SkyDrive! Sign up now and get 5GB of space FREE! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080312/8451d51b/attachment.html From ibeausol at mae.carleton.ca Thu Mar 13 12:15:21 2008 From: ibeausol at mae.carleton.ca (Ian Beausoleil-Morrison) Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 08:15:21 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] Re: RE : Low-e coatings In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <004001c88503$e8daf940$ba90ebc0$@carleton.ca> Liam, You might be interested in knowing that work is underway by Bart Lomanowski and John Wright at the University of Waterloo to provide a more detailed treatment of the heat transfer between panes of glass within ESP-r. Their work also considers improving the accuracy of shading by venetian blinds. Bart is copied on this e-mail and may wish to provide some details as well as estimate on when his work might be merged into the general release of ESP-r. - Ian Ian Beausoleil-Morrison, Ph.D. Associate Professor and Canada Research Chair Mechanical and Aerospace Engineering Carleton University 1125 Colonel By Drive Ottawa, Ontario, Canada K1S 5B6 ibeausol at mae.carleton.ca +1 (613) 520-2600 ext 3022 (telephone) +1 (613) 520-5715 (facsimile) www.mae.carleton.ca ____________________________________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Denis J. Bourgeois Sent: March 12, 2008 18:26 To: Liam O'Brien; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] RE : Low-e coatings Liam, ? The radiation exchanges between surfaces separated by an air gap within a construction are not explicitly modelled / simulated in ESP-r - rather the effective thermal resistance of the air gap in the zone's construction file (.con) can be adjusted to account for various gases and low-e coatings in a sealed glass unit. Using WIS or LBNL's WINDOW, you can derive the effective gap resistance for a given window from the entire unit U value, and individual glass pane thicknesses and conductivities. You should also tweak values to account for framing effects (both in .con and .tmc files). ? Hope this helps, Denis Bourgeois ? -----Message d'origine----- De?: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] De la part de Liam O'Brien Envoy??: March 12, 2008 5:51 PM ??: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Objet?: [esp-r] Low-e coatings ? Hello, I want to model a low-e coating on a new window construction.? As far as I can tell, materials (i.e. glass) are defined as homogeneous in the materials library, and thus have a single emissivity value.? However, clearly a low-e coating will cause the glass to have two different emissivity values.? Could anyone share how they have modeled this? Also, it would be useful in future versions of ESP-r to have fill gases other than air.? I know the properties of the air can be changed, but it would save a step to be able to choose argon or krypton, for example. Thanks! Liam O'Brien ________________________________________ Access your files from anywhere with Windows Live SkyDrive! Sign up now and get 5GB of space FREE! From blomanow at engmail.uwaterloo.ca Thu Mar 13 20:35:53 2008 From: blomanow at engmail.uwaterloo.ca (Bart Lomanowski) Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 16:35:53 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Low-e coatings In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20080313163553.09ncja27hccog8k8@www.nexusmail.uwaterloo.ca> Hi Liam, U values for center-of-glass windows are calculated based on certain environmental conditions (eg. ASHRAE winter condition) as a rating method by adding up the total resistance accross a window. However, in reality, these individual resistances (convective and radiative) are temperature dependent. By tweaking the Rgap value to match the WINDOW5 U-value, you are in fact accounting for the low-e coating in an approximate way. BUT, from an energy simulation point of view, to properly account for the low-e coating, the temperature dependency of the gas gap resistance should be known. That being said, the Rgap value probably doesn't change that much so as an approximate method, I don't think it's that bad. As for my work, I am adding a more accurate treatment of windows with/without venetian blind shading layers in any configuration (outside, inside, between-the-glass). This method accounts for temperature dependence of individual resistances, and solves for gas gap resistances on a time-step basis. The model also includes dynamic slat control of venetian blinds on a time-step basis, allowing for implementation of real-time shading control schemes (eg. solar tracking). The front end of my model is a graphical Glazing/Shading Editor developed by John Wright which allows the user to very quickly generate a complex glazing unit with any combination of fill gases, coatings and four different types of shading layers (restricted to venetian blinds for ESP-r use, for now). This work will be merged into the general release of ESP-r this summer. Hope that helps, Bart --- Bartosz Lomanowski MASc Candidate Solar Thermal Research Lab Department of Mechanical Engineering University of Waterloo 200 University Avenue West Waterloo, Ontario, Canada N2L 3G1 +1 519 888 4567 x33885 Quoting esp-r-request at lists.strath.ac.uk: > Send esp-r mailing list submissions to > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > esp-r-request at lists.strath.ac.uk > > You can reach the person managing the list at > esp-r-owner at lists.strath.ac.uk > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of esp-r digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Low-e coatings (Liam O'Brien) > 2. Low-e coatings (Liam O'Brien) > 3. RE : Low-e coatings (Denis J. Bourgeois) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 17:51:24 -0400 > From: Liam O'Brien > Subject: [esp-r] Low-e coatings > To: > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > Hello, > > I want to model a low-e coating on a new window construction. As > far as I can tell, materials (i.e. glass) are defined as homogeneous > in the materials library, and thus have a single emissivity value. > However, clearly a low-e coating will cause the glass to have two > different emissivity values. Could anyone share how they have > modeled this? > > Also, it would be useful in future versions of ESP-r to have fill > gases other than air. I know the properties of the air can be > changed, but it would save a step to be able to choose argon or > krypton, for example. > > Thanks! > > Liam O'Brien > > _________________________________________________________________ > Create a handy button so your friends can add U to their buddy list. > Try it now! > http://g.msn.ca/ca55/211 > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080312/56b76a5b/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 18:00:23 -0400 > From: Liam O'Brien > Subject: [esp-r] Low-e coatings > To: > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > Hello, > > I want to model a low-e coating on a new window construction. As > far as I can tell, materials (i.e. glass) are defined as homogeneous > in the materials library, and thus have a single emissivity value. > However, clearly a low-e coating will cause the glass to have two > different emissivity values. Could anyone share how they have > modeled this? > > Also, it would be useful in future versions of ESP-r to have fill > gases other than air. I know the properties of the air can be > changed, but it would save a step to be able to choose argon or > krypton, for example. > > Thanks! > > Liam O'Brien > > _________________________________________________________________ > At a loss for words? Find them by playing Seekadoo! Play now! > http://g.msn.ca/ca55/208 > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080312/280e38e7/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 18:25:45 -0400 > From: "Denis J. Bourgeois" > Subject: [esp-r] RE : Low-e coatings > To: "Liam O'Brien" , > > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Liam, > > > > The radiation exchanges between surfaces separated by an air gap > within a construction are not explicitly modelled / simulated in > ESP-r - rather the effective thermal resistance of the air gap in > the zone's construction file (.con) can be adjusted to account for > various gases and low-e coatings in a sealed glass unit. Using WIS > or LBNL's WINDOW, you can derive the effective gap resistance for a > given window from the entire unit U value, and individual glass pane > thicknesses and conductivities. You should also tweak values to > account for framing effects (both in .con and .tmc files). > > > > Hope this helps, > > Denis Bourgeois > > > > -----Message d'origine----- > De : esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk > [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] De la part de Liam O'Brien > Envoy? : March 12, 2008 5:51 PM > ? : esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Objet : [esp-r] Low-e coatings > > > > Hello, > > I want to model a low-e coating on a new window construction. As > far as I can tell, materials (i.e. glass) are defined as homogeneous > in the materials library, and thus have a single emissivity value. > However, clearly a low-e coating will cause the glass to have two > different emissivity values. Could anyone share how they have > modeled this? > > Also, it would be useful in future versions of ESP-r to have fill > gases other than air. I know the properties of the air can be > changed, but it would save a step to be able to choose argon or > krypton, for example. > > Thanks! > > Liam O'Brien > > ________________________________ > > Access your files from anywhere with Windows Live SkyDrive! Sign up > now and get 5GB of space FREE! > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080312/8451d51b/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > > End of esp-r Digest, Vol 20, Issue 6 > ************************************ > From vlacour at worldonline.fr Mon Mar 17 17:04:12 2008 From: vlacour at worldonline.fr (vincent lacour) Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 18:04:12 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] customizing climate data sets Message-ID: <47DEA48C.4010209@worldonline.fr> I got from DOE the climate set for a location very close to my project, BUT my project is located at a much higher elevation (950 m above mean sea level vs. 200 m amsl for the climate data set). any idea how i could reasonably adjust the climate data set for my project location? Regards Vincent From S.Nikoofard at DAL.CA Mon Mar 17 21:33:17 2008 From: S.Nikoofard at DAL.CA (Sara Nikoofard) Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 18:33:17 -0300 Subject: [esp-r] Fix BaseSimp tag Message-ID: <20080317183317.71el1q6792go8go0@my1.dal.ca> Hello ESP-r users; I am having a problem with BaseSimp. I know how to create the *.bsm file and how to use it in my model by adding it whitin the *.cnn and *.cfg files. However, when I want to go back to model GUI and resave the *.cfg file it deletes the bsm tag which I had added to the *.cfg file. Is there anyway to maintain it? Thank you -- Sara Nikoofard Department of Mechanical Engineering Dalhousie University, Halifax, NS Phone: (902)494-3165 email: s.nikoofard at dal.ca From Denis.Bourgeois at arc.ulaval.ca Tue Mar 18 09:33:13 2008 From: Denis.Bourgeois at arc.ulaval.ca (Denis J. Bourgeois) Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 05:33:13 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] Early registration deadline - eSim2008 Message-ID: (apologies for cross-postings) Early registration deadline - eSim2008 A gentle reminder: The early registration deadline for the eSim2008 Conference and Workshops ends on March 20th - 2 days from now! Please note that pre-booked hotel rooms for conference participants will no longer be available after March 20th. To register: http://www.esim.ca/2008/registration.htm Workshops: http://www.esim.ca/2008/workshops.htm ? bient?t! Conference Chair: Dr. Denis Bourgeois denis.bourgeois at arc.ulaval.ca Chair of the Scientific Committee: Dr. Christoph Reinhart christoph.reinhart at nrc-cnrc.gc.ca -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080318/a1c6b1cc/attachment.html From vlacour at worldonline.fr Tue Mar 18 09:44:26 2008 From: vlacour at worldonline.fr (vincent lacour) Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 10:44:26 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: customizing climate data sets In-Reply-To: <0JXW00377MF2VMH0@smtp04.cityu.edu.hk> References: <0JXW00377MF2VMH0@smtp04.cityu.edu.hk> Message-ID: <47DF8EFA.4070907@worldonline.fr> Dr.QIU wrote : > vincent lacour,?????? > > it seems you should modify some data in "model context"-->"site data" > Qiu > > ======= 2008-03-18 01:04:12 ????????????????======= > >> I got from DOE the climate set for a location very close to my project, BUT my project is located at a much higher >> elevation (950 m above mean sea level vs. 200 m amsl for the climate data set). any idea how i could reasonably adjust >> the climate data set for my project location? >> >> Regards >> >> Vincent >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> esp-r mailing list >> esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk >> http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = > > > ?????????????????? > ???? > > > ????????????????Dr.QIU > ????????????????zhongqiu at cityu.edu.hk > ????????????????????2008-03-18 > Thanks Qiu for your reply; however "model context"-->"site data" includes latitude and longitude but it does not include elevation. The point is: a) how to adjust climate data for temperature? should I use the 2 degrees / 305 meters ratio across the board? b) What about air pressure and its decreasing with elevation? Vincent From Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch Tue Mar 18 16:22:18 2008 From: Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch (Geissler Achim) Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 17:22:18 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: customizing climate data sets References: <0JXW00377MF2VMH0@smtp04.cityu.edu.hk> <47DF8EFA.4070907@worldonline.fr> Message-ID: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C3BE908@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Hi Vincent, air pressure: That is not important, as ESP-r uses a constant total pressure (hard-coded). For temperatures, maybe, "Standard ICAO atmosphere", approx. 0.8 K / 100 m, as far as I recall. For wind? Difficult. As wind speed is measured 10 m above grade, I would leave it as it is and check sensitivity at some stage. Mit freundlichen Gr?ssen / Best regards Achim Geissler > -----Original Message----- > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r- > bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of vincent lacour > Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 10:44 AM > To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Subject: [esp-r] Re: customizing climate data sets > > Dr.QIU wrote : > > vincent lacour,?????? > > > > it seems you should modify some data in "model context"-->"site > data" > > Qiu > > > > ======= 2008-03-18 01:04:12 ????????????????======= > > > >> I got from DOE the climate set for a location very close to my project, > BUT my project is located at a much higher > >> elevation (950 m above mean sea level vs. 200 m amsl for the climate > data set). any idea how i could reasonably adjust > >> the climate data set for my project location? > >> > >> Regards > >> > >> Vincent > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> esp-r mailing list > >> esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > >> http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > > > > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = > > > > > > ?????????????????? > > ???? > > > > > > ????????????????Dr.QIU > > ????????????????zhongqiu at cityu.edu.hk > > ????????????????????2008-03-18 > > > Thanks Qiu for your reply; however "model context"-->"site data" includes > latitude and longitude but it does not include > elevation. > The point is: a) how to adjust climate data for temperature? should I use > the 2 degrees / 305 meters ratio across the > board? > b) What about air pressure and its decreasing with elevation? > > Vincent > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From Drury.Crawley at ee.doe.gov Sun Mar 23 18:15:38 2008 From: Drury.Crawley at ee.doe.gov (Crawley, Drury) Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2008 14:15:38 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] Re: customizing climate data sets In-Reply-To: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C3BE908@sgartgum1.gart.intra> References: <0JXW00377MF2VMH0@smtp04.cityu.edu.hk> <47DF8EFA.4070907@worldonline.fr> <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C3BE908@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Message-ID: <424E9A5858F3FE488757CA28E049864404D1786A@HQGTNEVS-04.doe.local> When working on evaluating a 75-story tower, e found that there could be significant variation in temperature and wind speed with multistory buildings. Looking into the literature, we found that we could calculate outdoor air temperature variation using the U.S. Standard Atmosphere (1976). According to this model, the relationship between air temperature and altitude in a given layer of the atmosphere is: Tz = Tb + L ( Hz ? Hb ) where Tz = air temperature at altitude z Tb = air temperature at the base of the layer, i.e., ground level for the troposphere L = air temperature gradient, equal to ?0.0065 K/m in the troposphere Hb = offset equal to zero for the troposphere Hz = geopotential altitude, defined by: Hz = Ez / (E + z) where E = 6,356 km, the radius of the Earth z = altitude. For the purpose of modeling buildings in the troposphere, altitude z refers to the height above ground level, not the height above sea level. The height above ground is calculated as the height of the centroid, or area-weighted center point, for each zone and surface. The air temperature at ground level, Tb, is derived from the weather file air temperature by inverting the equation above: Tb = Tz,met - L ((Ezmet / (E + Zmet)) - Hb) where Tz,met = weather file air temperature (measured at the meteorological station) zmet = height above ground of the air temperature sensor at the meteorological station. The default value for zmet for air temperature measurement is 1.5 m above ground. Similarly, the relationship between wind speed and altitude (i.e., height above ground) is described in Chapter 16 of the Handbook of Fundamentals (ASHRAE 2005). The wind speed measured at a meteorological station is extrapolated to other altitudes with the equation: Vz = Vmet ( ?met / Zmet ) ^?met * ( Z / ? ) ^? where z = altitude, height above ground Vz = wind speed at altitude z ? = wind speed profile exponent at the site ? = wind speed profile boundary layer thickness at the site zmet = height above ground of the wind speed sensor at the meteorological station Vmet = wind speed measured at the meteorological station ?met = wind speed profile exponent at the meteorological station ?met = wind speed profile boundary layer thickness at the meteorological station. The wind speed profile coefficients ?, ?, ?met, and ?met, are variables that depend on the roughness characteristics of the surrounding terrain. Typical values for ? and ? are shown in the following: Wind Speed Profile Coefficients (ASHRAE Fundamentals 2005). Terrain Description Exponent, ? Boundary Layer Thickness, ? (m) Flat, open country 0.14 270 Rough, wooded country 0.22 370 Towns and cities 0.33 460 Ocean 0.10 210 Urban, industrial, forest 0.22 370 The default value for zmet for wind speed measurement is 10 m above ground. The default values for ?met and ?met are 0.14 and 270 m, respectively, because most meteorological stations are located in an open field. -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Geissler Achim Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 12:22 PM To: vincent lacour; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Re: customizing climate data sets Hi Vincent, air pressure: That is not important, as ESP-r uses a constant total pressure (hard-coded). For temperatures, maybe, "Standard ICAO atmosphere", approx. 0.8 K / 100 m, as far as I recall. For wind? Difficult. As wind speed is measured 10 m above grade, I would leave it as it is and check sensitivity at some stage. Mit freundlichen Gr?ssen / Best regards Achim Geissler > -----Original Message----- > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r- > bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of vincent lacour > Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 10:44 AM > To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Subject: [esp-r] Re: customizing climate data sets > > Dr.QIU wrote : > > vincent lacour,?????? > > > > it seems you should modify some data in "model context"-->"site > data" > > Qiu > > > > ======= 2008-03-18 01:04:12 ????????????????======= > > > >> I got from DOE the climate set for a location very close to my > >> project, > BUT my project is located at a much higher > >> elevation (950 m above mean sea level vs. 200 m amsl for the > >> climate > data set). any idea how i could reasonably adjust > >> the climate data set for my project location? > >> > >> Regards > >> > >> Vincent > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> esp-r mailing list > >> esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > >> http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > > > > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = > > > > > > ?????????????????? > > ???? > > > > > > ????????????????Dr.QIU > > ????????????????zhongqiu at cityu.edu.hk > > ????????????????????2008-03-18 > > > Thanks Qiu for your reply; however "model context"-->"site data" > includes latitude and longitude but it does not include elevation. > The point is: a) how to adjust climate data for temperature? should I > use the 2 degrees / 305 meters ratio across the board? > b) What about air pressure and its decreasing with elevation? > > Vincent > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From sumwelamos at yahoo.com Mon Mar 24 19:11:53 2008 From: sumwelamos at yahoo.com (samuel amos-abanyie) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 12:11:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [esp-r] MODELLING PASSIVE COOLING SYSTEMS WITH ESP_r Message-ID: <811532.83656.qm@web33003.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I am very new to ESP-r, and carrying out a research on Passive Cooling Systems. It has taken me sometime to decide on which software will be of help. I have the cookbook and the accompaning exercises which I am doing very well in going through. I wish to have a foreknowledge from the very experienced ones, how applicable can ESP-r be to modelling Passive Cooling Systems such as evaporative cooling, radiative cooling, thermal mass, and ground (earth)cooling in the tropical conditions of Ghana. Regards Amos-Abanyie SAMUEL AMOS-ABANYIE (+233) 51-62000 / 244 -256552 email: sumwelamos at yahoo.com --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080324/9a51d9c5/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Thu Mar 27 00:35:22 2008 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 00:35:22 -0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: MODELLING PASSIVE COOLING SYSTEMS WITH ESP_r References: <811532.83656.qm@web33003.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: A recent question about passive solar models in ESP-r... :: I am very new to ESP-r, and carrying out a research on Passive Cooling Systems. It has taken me sometime to decide on which software will be of help. I have the cookbook and the accompaning exercises which I am doing very well in going through. :: I wish to have a foreknowledge from the very experienced ones, how applicable can ESP-r be to modelling Passive Cooling Systems such as evaporative cooling, radiative cooling, thermal mass, and ground (earth)cooling in the tropical conditions of Ghana. ------ ESP-r treats radiation heat transfer between surfaces within a zone explicitly. The specific design of radiant cooling system will be necessary to advise which approach to take. Thermal mass is treated explicitly in ESP-r. There are existing models with up to 1m of mass (typically such constructions are created using several layers). There is an example model with shows how to do earth cooling. Evaporative cooling - very few evaporative designs can be represented in ESP-r. -Jon Hand From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Thu Mar 27 09:05:35 2008 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 09:05:35 -0000 Subject: [esp-r] a question about esp-r on 64-bit linux. Message-ID: I have access to a x86_64 HP Proliant ML370G5 running Red Hat Enterprise Linux version 4. After a minor patch to the Install script to get it to point to the lib64 folder of /usr/X11R6 the X11 version compile is ok. And I was using the g77 and gcc verions 3.4 and not including the XML facilities. The full compile and install of exemplars went without visable complaint. In text mode there is no problem that I can see yet. I browsed an exemplar in text mode and was at least able to open the model in prj. In graphics mode I get a segmentation fault just slightly after the graphic window begins to draw. I did a gdb session and tracked it down to a call to winfnt(1) in the subroutine epages of esru_libX11.F Inside the winfnt_ function of esru_x.c the value of *n (the parameter passed in from Fortran, is, typically a very large number. So rather than a hard coded number parameter I tried setting a local integer variable within epages and that did not change it much that I could see there was still a fault. The passing of an integer (either has a hard coded number in the call statement or via a local integer variable used in the call statement) from fortran to the C function winfnt does seem to be mis-interpreted within the C function. Next I tried creating a local long int variable within the winfnt_ function and setting it to the passed parameter and then using the local variable witin the winfnt_ function. That helped some, but not always. I then added a test of the local variable and if it is out of range I set it to 1. With this change I was able to bring up clm in graphics mode and to generate a report. Drawing a graph still is not up to scratch but some of the other functions appear to be working. I just compiled the same revised code block on OSX GCC 3.3 and clm is working a treat so the patch seems to be ok for at least one other platform. THE QUESTION... Now: I know that 64 bit has been an issue in the past and I am wondering if: a) there is a way to detect at compile time that we are working on a 64 bit machine b) if we knew we were on a 64 bit machine is there some other typeing convention we might use on the fortran side such as integer*2 that might allow a clean passing of integer variables between fortran and C? I have a need to get ESP-r working on a 64 bit platform. Another question would be: does anyone have tips on how to force a compile in 32-bit mode under Redhat 4 running on a 64 bit platform? Any suggestions From cah at byg.dtu.dk Thu Mar 27 10:48:44 2008 From: cah at byg.dtu.dk (Christian Anker Hviid) Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 11:48:44 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] counter-flow heat exchangers and meta components Message-ID: <78B14BBA2B77DF4186B975430E16648B0173E4@mail3.byg.dtu.dk> Hello ESP-r community I am modelling two fluid coupled counter-flow heat exchangers in order to recover heat in a passive ventilation system. I have tried to couple a heating coil in the inlet with a cooling coil in the outlet (type 20 and 21), and let a fixed flow rates controller control the capacity flow. Contrary to my beliefs the coils are not counter-flow (the outlet water temp equals the outlet air temp). In my search I have looked into contructing a counter-flow heat exchanger from primitive parts (heat transfer tubes) as a meta component as the intended exchanger does in fact consists of plastic tubes. However, while I am able to specify the inter-connections I am not able to specify inlet and outlet index as otherwise stated in the Aasem thesis. Program never asks. Question 1: Are there any pre-specified counter-flow heat exchangers available in version 11.4? Question 2: Anybody have any experience with meta components. Have I discovered a bug? Any work-around? Thank you very much for your help. Best regards Christian Hviid -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080327/58b41231/attachment.html From susasaiz at gmail.com Tue Apr 1 15:19:21 2008 From: susasaiz at gmail.com (Susana Saiz Alcazar) Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 10:19:21 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] Problems-Esp-r Message-ID: <382cb3600804010719lb61a397qab51963436b7492d@mail.gmail.com> HI, I am having trouble with the last Esp-r download for Windows. The program shuts off all the time when I am working with it. Anyone knwo how to fix this? Thanks, Susana -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080401/2b276358/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Tue Apr 1 22:24:00 2008 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 22:24:00 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Problems-Esp-r References: <382cb3600804010719lb61a397qab51963436b7492d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: A recent observation... ::I am having trouble with the last Esp-r download for Windows. The program ::shuts off all the time when I am working with it. Anyone knwo how to fix ::this? Although ESP-r occasionally 'falls-over' on Windows after long sessions, we have not had reports of 'all the time' crashes. This might be specific to your machine. Is there any pattern to the point(s) in interaction where the crash happens? a) does it crash in particular menus? b) does it crash on particular types of dialogue? c) do all of the ESP-r modules crash or only some? d) are you typing particular characters when it crashes? e) are you running on Vista? - ESP-r is not yet proven to work on Vista. Check that you have a locale set to use a period as a decimal place, ESP-r will be utterly confused with a comma as a decimal place. It will also corrupt models. If you have an alternative computer you can use, load ESP-r on it and try to work with one of the models that have been problematic. Debug on native Windows is somewhat problematic. You would need, at a minimum, the MSYS and MinGW compiling environment that is used to build ESP-r on Windows and a debugger. Also, it would help in such observational messages to include as much detail as possible. -Jon Hand From xijiayu at hotmail.com Wed Apr 2 11:37:25 2008 From: xijiayu at hotmail.com (wong ing liang) Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 10:37:25 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Question Message-ID: Dear ESP-r users, This message appeared for a particular zone. Could anyone advise how to deal with it? WARNING: in ..\zones\circu1.geo: 3 60 0 0 the 1st recv surf value (60) > normal maximum 28! Regards, Wong _________________________________________________________________ Easily manage multiple email accounts with Windows Live Mail! http://www.get.live.com/wl/all -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080402/c0602322/attachment.html From Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch Wed Apr 2 14:06:21 2008 From: Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch (Geissler Achim) Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 15:06:21 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Question References: Message-ID: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C3F02D0@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Hi Wong, the line seems to be the line with the comment "# default insolation distribution" behind it. Maybe try editing your "insulation distribution" (set the line to 3 0 0 0 for starters). Regards, Achim ________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of wong ing liang Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 12:37 PM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Question Dear ESP-r users, This message appeared for a particular zone. Could anyone advise how to deal with it? WARNING: in ..\zones\circu1.geo: 3 60 0 0 the 1st recv surf value (60) > normal maximum 28! Regards, Wong ________________________________ Share life's special moments with Photo Gallery. Windows Live Photo Gallery -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080402/c125e3c8/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Wed Apr 2 22:48:53 2008 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 22:48:53 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Question References: Message-ID: A recent question about a warning... This message appeared for a particular zone. Could anyone advise how to deal with it? WARNING: in ..\zones\circu1.geo: 3 60 0 0 the 1st recv surf value (60) > normal maximum 28! _________________________________________________________________ This is in a zone geometry file and the line of data is related to a user directive about how to treat solar radiation distribution within the room. The first number is a 3 with signals that a fully diffuse distribution is requested. The 3 should be followed by three zeros. If the first number on that line was something other than '3' the 2nd and 3rd numbers would point to the index of one or two surfaces that should get the direct sunlight. The specific error that 60 > 28. There are 28 surfaces in the room and so there is no surface 60 in this room. If you used a text editor to change the 60 to a 0 that should correct this error. Or if you use the prj interface to re-specify that you want diffuse solar distribution that should cause the file to be re-written correctly. -Jon Hand From vlacour at worldonline.fr Thu Apr 3 08:05:30 2008 From: vlacour at worldonline.fr (vincent lacour) Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2008 09:05:30 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: customizing climate data sets In-Reply-To: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C3BE908@sgartgum1.gart.intra> References: <0JXW00377MF2VMH0@smtp04.cityu.edu.hk> <47DF8EFA.4070907@worldonline.fr> <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C3BE908@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Message-ID: <47F481BA.5080801@worldonline.fr> Geissler Achim wrote: > Hi Vincent, > air pressure: That is not important, as ESP-r uses a constant total pressure (hard-coded). > For temperatures, maybe, "Standard ICAO atmosphere", approx. 0.8 K / 100 m, as far as I recall. > For wind? Difficult. As wind speed is measured 10 m above grade, I would leave it as it is and check sensitivity at some stage. > Mit freundlichen Gr?ssen / Best regards > > Achim Geissler > Many thanks for your reply; however it raises a new question: What are the consequences of esp-r not taking into account the local air pressure? Do you know of any comparison with other models using air pressure such as energy plus? Best Regards Vincent Lacour From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Sun Apr 6 23:13:39 2008 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 23:13:39 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: customizing climate data sets References: <0JXW00377MF2VMH0@smtp04.cityu.edu.hk> <47DF8EFA.4070907@worldonline.fr> <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C3BE908@sgartgum1.gart.intra> <47F481BA.5080801@worldonline.fr> Message-ID: A question about fixed atmospheric pressure... > ::Many thanks for your reply; however it raises a new question: ::What are the consequences of esp-r not taking into account the local air pressure? Do you know of any comparison with ::other models using air pressure such as energy plus? I remember a study many years ago (probably BESTEST) that had a model placed in Colorado at high altitude. What the various tools did was to adjusts the volume flow to approximate the difference in mass flow at altitude. -Jon From mailespr at gmail.com Mon Apr 7 14:15:36 2008 From: mailespr at gmail.com (io io) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 15:15:36 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] libX11.so.4.10, libF77.so.1.1, libc.so.1.6 Message-ID: <560252980804070615u8524604g44ca9afe67adb7d0@mail.gmail.com> Hello, I would like to see how the two tar.gz file (EKS & IIBDS) in the ESP-r download-file page work. I have managed to tar extract them, but I do not now how to proceed. In both README file there is written : *The following shared libraries are required for run-time linking: -lX11.4 => /usr/lib/X11/libX11.so.4.10 -lF77.1 => /usr/lang/libF77.so.1.1 -lc.1 => /usr/lib/libc.so.1.6 Define the LD_LIBRARY_PATH environment variable for other locations of these libraries.* I did not manage to find these file, so I was wondering if it could be possible to continue, or if there is another way to proceed... Besides, I am new to linux, so, if there are some other suggestions, it could be really useful to me... Thank you very much for your help, yours faithfully, MP -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080407/538f04ea/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Tue Apr 8 07:29:43 2008 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 07:29:43 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: libX11.so.4.10, libF77.so.1.1, libc.so.1.6 for a historical package References: <560252980804070615u8524604g44ca9afe67adb7d0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: A recent question about two historic ESRU packages... Subject: [esp-r] libX11.so.4.10, libF77.so.1.1, libc.so.1.6 Hello, I would like to see how the two tar.gz file (EKS & IIBDS) in the ESP-r download-file page work. I have managed to tar extract them, but I do not now how to proceed. In both README file there is written : *The following shared libraries are required for run-time linking: -lX11.4 => /usr/lib/X11/libX11.so.4.10 -lF77.1 => /usr/lang/libF77.so.1.1 -lc.1 => /usr/lib/libc.so.1.6 Define the LD_LIBRARY_PATH environment variable for other locations of these libraries.* I did not manage to find these file, so I was wondering if it could be possible to continue, or if there is another way to proceed... Besides, I am new to linux, so, if there are some other suggestions, it could be really useful to me... ------------------------------- It might not have been clear on the download page. These two packages are somewhat old (X11 revision 4 goes back a number of years). I would guess that the documentation was written with the assumption that these packages were being used on a Sun Solaris workstation. And, it might be that a re-compile will link correctly with current versions of the X11 libraries. And the Solaris F77 is likely to be very similar to the g77 version 3.4 which is available on Linux (but you might have to look in the legacy packages to find it). The ESRU web page will have some papers which discuss the EKS (energy kernel system). Professor Joe Clarke might also suggest some historical information about the EKS project. It was ahead of its time (at that time) and suffered from slow computers with limited memory of the day. Today it would probably be amazingly fast. It is unknown how much work would be required to get these packages running with current compilers and operating systems. Regards, Jon Hand From gulatiakshay at gmail.com Wed Apr 9 18:46:59 2008 From: gulatiakshay at gmail.com (akshay gulati) Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 23:16:59 +0530 Subject: [esp-r] Fire Modeling and Smoke Modeling Message-ID: <15c7ce400804091046u105da3a7yabb44d7bde00ec29@mail.gmail.com> Any Case Study about the Fire Modeling in ESP-r. Regards Akshay Gulati -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080409/dc7f4256/attachment.html From azzarognu at gmail.com Mon Apr 14 18:39:18 2008 From: azzarognu at gmail.com (F. G. Azzaro) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 18:39:18 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] imaginary surface Message-ID: <81f674a20804141039x33698fc6g309cec562d1d3500@mail.gmail.com> Hello ESP-r users, I have a question about the materials. Is it possible to separate a big volume in different parts by inserting an "imaginary" surface ? My objective is to analyze a big room in different parts, but I think, I need an "imaginary" surface to do that. Do you have any suggestion ?, thanks Regards, Francesco -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080414/d9be342a/attachment.html From paul at esru.strath.ac.uk Mon Apr 14 19:29:06 2008 From: paul at esru.strath.ac.uk (paul strachan) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 19:29:06 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: imaginary surface In-Reply-To: <81f674a20804141039x33698fc6g309cec562d1d3500@mail.gmail.com> References: <81f674a20804141039x33698fc6g309cec562d1d3500@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4803A272.3010503@esru.strath.ac.uk> Dear Francesco, All zones must be fully bounded. Therefore, you should create a "fictitious" construction that will have minimal impact on the heat transfer. In essence you should have a thin layer which is very conductive, no appreciable thermal mass, perfectly transparent and no solar absorption. Details can be found in the FAQ on the website under "fictitious surfaces and zone subdivision". Regards Paul F. G. Azzaro wrote: > Hello ESP-r users, > I have a question about the materials. > Is it possible to separate a big volume in different parts by > inserting an "imaginary" surface ? > My objective is to analyze a big room in different parts, but I think, > I need an "imaginary" surface to do that. > Do you have any suggestion ?, thanks > > Regards, > > Francesco > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From laxsts at nottingham.ac.uk Tue Apr 15 13:35:58 2008 From: laxsts at nottingham.ac.uk (Smith Stefan) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 13:35:58 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] imaginary surface References: Message-ID: <28595D3B6B6116438C3AB5A9AFFC13172890AE@VUIEXCH2.ad.nottingham.ac.uk> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080415/3b090850/attachment.html From paul at esru.strath.ac.uk Tue Apr 15 14:43:56 2008 From: paul at esru.strath.ac.uk (Paul Strachan) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 14:43:56 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] BS'09 Call for Abstracts Message-ID: <4804B11C.4080300@esru.strath.ac.uk> Building Simulation 2009 University of Strathclyde, Glasgow, Scotland 27th -- 30th July Call for abstracts for BS'09 Conference website: www.bs2009.org.uk Abstracts may be submitted via our website above. Please note that the deadline for abstracts is *1 September 2008*. *IBPSA* will hold its 11th bi-annual international conference, the leading international conference in building performance simulation, in summer 2009 at the University of Strathclyde in Glasgow. Glasgow, Scotland's largest city, has an unrivalled choice of museums, theatres, parks, science centre and shopping, set within some of the finest Victorian architecture in Europe. In addition, Glasgow has a worldwide reputation as a welcoming city and is firmly established and experienced as a major centre for conferences and international events. The conference organizers are seeking high quality papers and will limit the number of peer-reviewed oral presentations. Submissions will therefore be rigorously peer-reviewed. Simulation-based papers on the following themes are welcomed: 1. advances in building physics 2. human aspects of the indoor environment 3. building services 4. commissioning and operation 5. energy capture and conversion 6. advances in applications 7. validation and calibration 8. software issues 9. simulation in design practice 10. regulation/code compliance 11. application day case studies* * One day of the conference will be devoted to practical applications, particularly focusing on simulation in practice with illustrative case studies. Therefore, a limited number of additional papers are invited in order to enable practitioners to demonstrate the benefits flowing from the recent upsurge in the use of simulation in building design. If you wish to contribute such a paper, please ensure it is marked as an application day case study in the abstract submission. Abstracts should be in plain text and no more than 500 words. They should describe clearly the research objectives and new knowledge arising from the research. *Key Dates* September 1st 2008 Abstracts due November 1st 2008 Abstract acceptance February 1st 2009 Full papers due April 1st 2009 Paper reviews provided to authors April 15th 2009 Deadline for revised paper April 22nd 2009 Deadline for final formatted papers May 1st 2009 Final acceptance notification May 15th 2009 Deadline for conference pre-registration July 27th -- 30th 2009 BS '09 Conference Accommodation, both convenient hotels and student apartments, can be booked through the conference website www.bs2009.org.uk. Student support will again be available - details will be announced later on the website. We look forward to welcoming you to Glasgow and are sure you will enjoy the experience. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080415/93035111/attachment.html From paul at esru.strath.ac.uk Wed Apr 16 09:08:50 2008 From: paul at esru.strath.ac.uk (Paul Strachan) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 09:08:50 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: imaginary surface In-Reply-To: <28595D3B6B6116438C3AB5A9AFFC13172890AE@VUIEXCH2.ad.nottingham.ac.uk> References: <28595D3B6B6116438C3AB5A9AFFC13172890AE@VUIEXCH2.ad.nottingham.ac.uk> Message-ID: <4805B412.9070502@esru.strath.ac.uk> Stefan, Yes, you should assume the air is well mixed across the fictitious surface, so you could include a high ventilation exchange by specifying this in the operations file, or if you have a flow network, then you can have a large opening (low flow resistance) between the two zones. Regards Paul Smith Stefan wrote: > Dear Paul, > Out of interest.. > > How would this effect fluid flow? Would you need to add some > ventilation operation to connect the zones? > > Regards, > Stefan > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk on behalf of > esp-r-request at lists.strath.ac.uk > *Sent:* Tue 15/04/2008 12:00 > *To:* esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > *Subject:* esp-r Digest, Vol 21, Issue 6 > > Send esp-r mailing list submissions to > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > esp-r-request at lists.strath.ac.uk > > You can reach the person managing the list at > esp-r-owner at lists.strath.ac.uk > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of esp-r digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. imaginary surface (F. G. Azzaro) > 2. Re: imaginary surface (paul strachan) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 18:39:18 +0100 > From: "F. G. Azzaro" > Subject: [esp-r] imaginary surface > To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Message-ID: > <81f674a20804141039x33698fc6g309cec562d1d3500 at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Hello ESP-r users, > I have a question about the materials. > Is it possible to separate a big volume in different parts by > inserting an > "imaginary" surface ? > My objective is to analyze a big room in different parts, but I think, I > need an "imaginary" surface to do that. > Do you have any suggestion ?, thanks > > Regards, > > Francesco > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080414/d9be342a/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 19:29:06 +0100 > From: paul strachan > Subject: [esp-r] Re: imaginary surface > To: "F. G. Azzaro" , > "'esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk'" > Message-ID: <4803A272.3010503 at esru.strath.ac.uk> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Dear Francesco, > > All zones must be fully bounded. Therefore, you should create a > "fictitious" construction that will have minimal impact on the heat > transfer. In essence you should have a thin layer which is very > conductive, no appreciable thermal mass, perfectly transparent and no > solar absorption. Details can be found in the FAQ on the website under > "fictitious surfaces and zone subdivision". > > Regards > Paul > > F. G. Azzaro wrote: > > Hello ESP-r users, > > I have a question about the materials. > > Is it possible to separate a big volume in different parts by > > inserting an "imaginary" surface ? > > My objective is to analyze a big room in different parts, but I think, > > I need an "imaginary" surface to do that. > > Do you have any suggestion ?, thanks > > > > Regards, > > > > Francesco > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > esp-r mailing list > > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > > End of esp-r Digest, Vol 21, Issue 6 > ************************************ > > > This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an > attachment may still contain software viruses, which could damage your > computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email > communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as > permitted by UK legislation. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r -- *************************************************************** Dr P A Strachan email: paul at esru.strath.ac.uk ESRU, Dept. of Mechanical Eng. phone: +44 141 548 2041 University of Strathclyde fax: +44 141 552 5105 Glasgow G1 1XJ, UK http://www.esru.strath.ac.uk *************************************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080416/331186e3/attachment-0001.html From na at design-sim.com Thu Apr 17 13:54:01 2008 From: na at design-sim.com (Nicolas Aizier) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 14:54:01 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] modelling humidity transfer through wall Message-ID: <48074869.1050303@design-sim.com> Dear All I have been ask by the French association for the "promotion of the use of hemp as a material for building construction" to help them modelling the humidity transfer through concrete of hemp. Walls made of concrete hemp can absorb and reject humidity. The association has already studied this behaviours of walls in a lab and they wand to model it in order to demonstrate the impact on comfort and energy use in buildings. Today this behaviours is not taking into account as a performance improvement within the French thermal regulation and they are looking for a tool that can help them to demonstrate the interest of using concrete of hemp as a building material, with the ultimate goal to make the regulation taking into account this performance improvement.. If someone has an experience in this kind of modelling with ESP-r, i'll be glad to have a feedback and advice to model such behavior with ESP-r. Thanks in advance Regards, Nicolas -- Nicolas Aizier Simulation & Design 5 Place de l?Europe 25000 Besan?on Tel : 03.81.88.65.41 From jake.zwart at sympatico.ca Thu Apr 17 14:19:50 2008 From: jake.zwart at sympatico.ca (Jake Zwart) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 09:19:50 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] FW: WUFI-ORNL Heat/Moisture Transport; Computer Modeling Workshop Message-ID: At the end of this email you will see another product specifically designed for moisture transport. If this product is an option for you, you may want to consider it. Jake Dear All I have been ask by the French association for the "promotion of the use of hemp as a material for building construction" to help them modelling the humidity transfer through concrete of hemp. Walls made of concrete hemp can absorb and reject humidity. The association has already studied this behaviours of walls in a lab and they wand to model it in order to demonstrate the impact on comfort and energy use in buildings. Today this behaviours is not taking into account as a performance improvement within the French thermal regulation and they are looking for a tool that can help them to demonstrate the interest of using concrete of hemp as a building material, with the ultimate goal to make the regulation taking into account this performance improvement.. If someone has an experience in this kind of modelling with ESP-r, i'll be glad to have a feedback and advice to model such behavior with ESP-r. Thanks in advance Regards, Nicolas -- Nicolas Aizier -----Original Message----- From: wufiinfo [mailto:wufiinfo at hoki.ibp.fhg.de] Sent: Thursday, 17 April, 2008 03:00 To: wufi-info at hoki.ibp.fraunhofer.de Subject: WUFI-ORNL Heat/Moisture Transport; Computer Modeling Workshop Dear WUFI User, The next WUFI workshop will be held in St. Louis, MO on Monday and Tuesday, May 5-6, 2008. Please find details attached. Best Regards, Your WUFI-Team, Meeting Planner and Representative Jacqueline B. Hardman President National Building Science Corporation 32244 Corte Chatada Temecula CA 92592-6320 jackiebh at section08.com www.section08.com tel: fax: mobile: (951) 699-0116 (951) 699-0876 (951) 265-1501 Want to always have my latest info? Want a signature like this? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: BROCHURE-ST-LOUIS.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 164308 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080417/e1d9e56f/attachment-0001.pdf From Camilo.Diaz at WSPGroup.com Tue Apr 22 13:20:28 2008 From: Camilo.Diaz at WSPGroup.com (Diaz, Camilo) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 13:20:28 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: outdoor spaces Message-ID: Hi Can esp-r be used to model outdoor spaces, such as courtyards or streets? I'd like to compare a few geometries against thermal parameters like resultant temperature, surface temperatures etc. Is this possible? Many thanks Camilo -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080422/1c2512b9/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Tue Apr 22 22:06:02 2008 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 22:06:02 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: outdoor spaces References: Message-ID: A recent question... ::Can esp-r be used to model outdoor spaces, such as courtyards or ::streets? I'd like to compare a few geometries against thermal parameters ::like resultant temperature, surface temperatures etc. Is this possible? In the past models have approximated indoor courtyards by treating them as zones mostly surrounded by building surfaces (from other zones in the model) with a very transparent roof and with a control law set to control to the ambient temperature. There is no easy way to impose outside wind speeds to such a zone, It was scary enough to do a courtyard with a limited exposure to the sky. For a situation where the sky exposure is large then there would be considerable uncertainty. For example, how could boundary surfaces approximate the actual sky temperature? -Jon Hand From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Wed Apr 23 10:32:17 2008 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 10:32:17 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Doubts about ESP-r References: <5.1.0.14.0.20080423092617.01537d10@pop.isec.pt> Message-ID: A question about ESP-r capabilities... ::ESP-r seems to be a good choice but I have some doubts. ::The first one is about the Windows version. It has the same capabilities of ::the Linux version? The windows version has the same simulation engine and simulates the same physics for zone energy balances, electical power, CFD domains and bulk mass flow. The interface is a bit different. ::Then, what is your opinion about implement control strategies in ESP-r? It ::is easy and powerful or it's better to use another program (like TRNSYS, ::for example)? It is easy to create control routines in ESP-r (it has a ::specific language?)? Lots of people have added control methods to ESP-r e.g. someone even implemented fuzzy logic controllers (but since that time no one remembers how to use this feature). The coding language is Fortran. How a user uses the existing control logic for zones or system components or mass flow components is essentially describing a number of control loops, each senses something and actuates something based on the control law which is active at a particular time of the day. Whether the existing control logic for each domain is sufficient for your needs cannot be determined from the description you give. ::The simulation of bioclimatic techniques like Trombe walls, buried pipes, ::double facades, solar shadings, . will be a hard job to do with ESP-r? Then ::I must simulate their control. There are working example models of buried pipes, double facades, solar shading and several people have created models with explicit Trombe-Michelle walls. Some people find the descriptive process difficult, others seem to have little trouble. ESP-r assumes that you have strong opinions about buidling physics. -Jon Hand From gkanagaraj83 at gmail.com Wed Apr 23 11:55:31 2008 From: gkanagaraj83 at gmail.com (kanagaraj ganesan) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 12:55:31 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] required Information on development of multiple assessment views Message-ID: <5bcade3d0804230355i18e444cbnec3e55097c6453b9@mail.gmail.com> Hello Everyone, I curretly doing my Master of Science by research from University of Stuttgart. I am currently Looking at Integrated Design approach for Energy efficient buildings. I am performing energy simulation for a building in a composite climate, India. I am currently using Windows version of Esp-r. I looked at the P.hd. thesis report of *"St?phane CITHERLET"* in which he has metioned about using multiple view assessment for Integrated building design. He had metioned about incorporating of Accoustic and Environmental Impact Assessment View in existing Esp-r structure. I would be grateful if someone can explain me how to implement or integrate More assessment views in Esp-r programme structure. With Regars, Kanagaraj -- G.KANAGARAJ (DAAD-IIT MADRAS) 42-A, ROOM NO.-304 PFAFFENWALDRING UNIVERSITAT STUTTGART 70569 STUTTGART Mob. No. :- 004917620470230 email id :- g_kanagaraj83 at rediffmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080423/ecb1697f/attachment.html From ptavares at mail.isec.pt Wed Apr 23 09:30:58 2008 From: ptavares at mail.isec.pt (Paulo Tavares) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 09:30:58 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Doubts about ESP-r Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20080423092617.01537d10@pop.isec.pt> Dear Sirs: I?m a PhD student in the field of energy efficiency in buildings. My work is to study how we can improve the performances of bioclimatic techniques with automation. First I must study its impact with a simulator. So I?m trying to choose the best one. ESP-r seems to be a good choice but I have some doubts. The first one is about the Windows version. It has the same capabilities of the Linux version? Then, what is your opinion about implement control strategies in ESP-r? It is easy and powerful or it?s better to use another program (like TRNSYS, for example)? It is easy to create control routines in ESP-r (it has a specific language?)? The simulation of bioclimatic techniques like Trombe walls, buried pipes, double facades, solar shadings, will be a hard job to do with ESP-r? Then I must simulate their control Please give me an answer as soon as possible, because I must choose a simulator as quickly as possible. Best regards, Paulo Tavares ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Paulo Filipe Tavares, Assistente (Assistant) IPC - Instituto Polit?cnico de Coimbra (Polytechnic Institute of Coimbra) ISEC - Instituto Superior de Engenharia de Coimbra Departamento de Electrotecnia (Electrical Department) Rua Pedro Nunes - Quinta da Nora 3030-199 COIMBRA Telefone: +351 239 790 200 (geral) Fax: +351 239 790 321 Email: ptavares at isec.pt http://www.isec.pt -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080423/c92ff38e/attachment.html From lswan at dal.ca Wed Apr 23 21:56:44 2008 From: lswan at dal.ca (Lukas Swan (Dal)) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 17:56:44 -0300 Subject: [esp-r] AIM-2 ACH question Message-ID: <012701c8a584$89cf27e0$9d6d77a0$@ca> Hello I am working with the *.aim file variables and have found an unexpected impact. Using all the same values and only modifying the ACH50 results in the opposite response I would expect. Particularly- when I raise the ACH50 the annual zone (I only have 1 in the model) infiltration air load energy drops. As I raise the ACH50 further, it continues to decrease. Three test cases: ACH50 Annual Air Load(kWh) 1.5 -6557 3.5 -1754 5 -1045 Thoughts on why an increase in air changes per hour causes decreased energy consumption? Lukas Swan Nova Scotia Canada # # AIM-2 input file for CCHT house from HOT2000 inputs # #---Leakage description----------------------------------------------------------------- -------- #1 1.50 10 1 523 # blower door input; 1.5 ac/h @50Pa; ELA dP=10Pa; 1=ELA not given; ELA=523.7 cm^2. #1 3.50 10 1 523 1 5 10 1 523 # # Set first number to 6 (and no other data) for energy tight house #---Leakage distribution---------------------------------------------------------------- -------- 1 0.20 0.65 0.15 # Use default leakage distribution. # # Set `1 0.1 0.6 0.2' for user input leakage distribution. #---Shielding and terrain data------------------------------------------------------------------ 3 7 4 2 10.0 # See subroutine /users/ian/src/esp-r/esrubld/aim2.F/AIM2_READIN #---Height of building eaves (m)---------------------------------------------------------------- 2.7 #---Flue diameters (mm)------------------------------------------------------------------------ - 0 0. 0. 0. 0. # furnace, fire#1, fire#2, dhw#1, dhw#2. #---Zone indices--------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------- 1 # Zone whose temperature used to calculate density of indoor air. 1 1 # Total number of zones receiving infil; indices of zones receive infil. 0 # Index of basement zone (=0 if no basement). #--------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080423/3dc2e3e0/attachment.html From ibeausol at mae.carleton.ca Thu Apr 24 14:04:56 2008 From: ibeausol at mae.carleton.ca (Ian Beausoleil-Morrison) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 09:04:56 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] Re: AIM-2 ACH question In-Reply-To: <012701c8a584$89cf27e0$9d6d77a0$@ca> References: <012701c8a584$89cf27e0$9d6d77a0$@ca> Message-ID: <005101c8a60b$cb611f10$62235d30$@carleton.ca> Lukas, You have specified both an airtightness rating at 50 Pa depressurization as well as an effective leakage area. The model will use these two values to determine the building's fabric leakage coefficient and the exponent of the flow-versus-pressure relationship. Refer to the subroutine AIM2_COandN in the source file cetc/aim2_pretimestep.F to details on these calculations as well as pointers to supporting documents that explain the model. - Ian Ian Beausoleil-Morrison, Ph.D. Associate Professor and Canada Research Chair Mechanical and Aerospace Engineering Carleton University 1125 Colonel By Drive Ottawa, Ontario, Canada K1S 5B6 ibeausol at mae.carleton.ca +1 (613) 520-2600 ext 3022 (telephone) +1 (613) 520-5715 (facsimile) www.mae.carleton.ca _______________________________________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Lukas Swan (Dal) Sent: April 23, 2008 16:57 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] AIM-2 ACH question Hello I am working with the *.aim file variables and have found an unexpected impact. Using all the same values and only modifying the ACH50 results in the opposite response I would expect. Particularly- when I raise the ACH50 the annual zone (I only have 1 in the model) infiltration air load energy drops. As I raise the ACH50 further, it continues to decrease. Three test cases: ACH50?? Annual Air Load(kWh) 1.5????????? -6557 3.5????????? -1754 5????????????? -1045 Thoughts on why an increase in air changes per hour causes decreased energy consumption? Lukas Swan Nova Scotia Canada # # AIM-2 input file for CCHT house from HOT2000 inputs # #---Leakage description----------------------------------------------------------------- -------- #1? 1.50? 10? 1? 523?????? # blower door input; 1.5 ac/h @50Pa; ELA dP=10Pa; 1=ELA not given; ELA=523.7 cm^2. #1? 3.50? 10? 1? 523 1 5 10 1 523 #?????????????????????????? # Set first number to 6 (and no other data) for energy tight house #---Leakage distribution---------------------------------------------------------------- -------- 1? 0.20? 0.65? 0.15???????? # Use default leakage distribution. #?????????????????????????? # Set `1? 0.1 0.6 0.2' for user input leakage distribution. #---Shielding and terrain data------------------------------------------------------------------ 3 7 4 2 10.0????????????? ??# See subroutine /users/ian/src/esp-r/esrubld/aim2.F/AIM2_READIN #---Height of building eaves (m)---------------------------------------------------------------- 2.7 #---Flue diameters (mm)------------------------------------------------------------------------ - 0? 0. 0. 0. 0. # furnace, fire#1, fire#2, dhw#1, dhw#2. #---Zone indices--------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------- 1????????????????? # Zone whose temperature used to calculate density of indoor air. 1 1????? ??????????# Total number of zones receiving infil; indices of zones receive infil. 0????????????????? # Index of basement zone (=0 if no basement). #--------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------- From bish.dj at gmail.com Wed Apr 30 01:40:25 2008 From: bish.dj at gmail.com (Danny Bishop) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 10:40:25 +1000 Subject: [esp-r] installing on Vista Message-ID: <4817c002.1997600a.3f12.1bc1@mx.google.com> Hi All Should the native windows installer work on Vista? Cheers Danny -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080430/ca73d201/attachment.html From georgios.kokogiannakis at strath.ac.uk Wed Apr 30 22:59:59 2008 From: georgios.kokogiannakis at strath.ac.uk (Georgios Kokogiannakis) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 22:59:59 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] previous experience with batch scripts in native windows? Message-ID: <28A6AED1E0DE214894D879115E13AA0867735A@BE-SCAM2.ds.strath.ac.uk> Hi everyone, I was wondering whether somebody has used batch scripts in the past to perform ESP-r tasks (particularly those of Project Manager) in native Windows (not in Cygwin). I have compiled a text mode ESP-r in Windows and I have a batch script (let's call it: A.bat) that contains the keyboard/keystroke commands required for using ESP-r in MS-DOS command prompt. However, I can not find a way to pass these commands after I initiate prj.exe . The closest I can get is when I say something like: A.bat|prj.exe -file NameOfCfg.cfg -mode text Any advice and help on this will be much appreciated. Regards, Georgios From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Thu May 1 08:49:30 2008 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 08:49:30 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: installing on Vista References: <4817c002.1997600a.3f12.1bc1@mx.google.com> Message-ID: I am not aware of any reports yes or no about the installer on Vista. My guess would be that the basic extraction and copying of files should work. If there was a problem it might be in the setting up of the PATH environment variable or in the association of *.cfg files with the esp-r.cmd script. Everyone I know continues to use XP. If anyone out there is using Vista and could share their experiences that would be useful. There should be a new version of ESP-r SOON. So there will need to be another check when it is released. -Jon Hand -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk on behalf of Danny Bishop Sent: Wed 4/30/2008 1:40 AM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] installing on Vista Hi All Should the native windows installer work on Vista? Cheers Danny From bish.dj at gmail.com Thu May 1 10:32:44 2008 From: bish.dj at gmail.com (Danny Bishop) Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 19:32:44 +1000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: installing on Vista In-Reply-To: References: <4817c002.1997600a.3f12.1bc1@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <48198e40.1cef600a.0dd4.2b66@mx.google.com> Hi Jon Yeah, we figured it out today, besides a few mystery problems that we fixed without really realising we did have to set up the new paths manually. Now I face the dragons!! :) Cheers Danny -----Original Message----- From: Jon Hand [mailto:jon at esru.strath.ac.uk] Sent: Thursday, 1 May 2008 5:50 PM To: Danny Bishop; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: RE: [esp-r] installing on Vista I am not aware of any reports yes or no about the installer on Vista. My guess would be that the basic extraction and copying of files should work. If there was a problem it might be in the setting up of the PATH environment variable or in the association of *.cfg files with the esp-r.cmd script. Everyone I know continues to use XP. If anyone out there is using Vista and could share their experiences that would be useful. There should be a new version of ESP-r SOON. So there will need to be another check when it is released. -Jon Hand -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk on behalf of Danny Bishop Sent: Wed 4/30/2008 1:40 AM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] installing on Vista Hi All Should the native windows installer work on Vista? Cheers Danny From lswan at dal.ca Thu May 1 10:50:24 2008 From: lswan at dal.ca (=?utf-8?B?THVrYXMgU3dhbiAoRGFsIGJiKQ==?=) Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 09:50:24 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: installing on Vista In-Reply-To: References: <4817c002.1997600a.3f12.1bc1@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <1892570569-1209646249-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-329728984-@bxe160.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> I have installed Cygwin on a 64 bit windows vista and then compiled ESP-r. It is functionally fine. Lukas Swan Sent on the TELUS Mobility network with BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: "Jon Hand" Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 08:49:30 To:"Danny Bishop" , Subject: [esp-r] Re: installing on Vista I am not aware of any reports yes or no about the installer on Vista. My guess would be that the basic extraction and copying of files should work. If there was a problem it might be in the setting up of the PATH environment variable or in the association of *.cfg files with the esp-r.cmd script. Everyone I know continues to use XP. If anyone out there is using Vista and could share their experiences that would be useful. There should be a new version of ESP-r SOON. So there will need to be another check when it is released. -Jon Hand -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk on behalf of Danny Bishop Sent: Wed 4/30/2008 1:40 AM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] installing on Vista Hi All Should the native windows installer work on Vista? Cheers Danny _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From obrien_liam at hotmail.com Thu May 1 14:45:09 2008 From: obrien_liam at hotmail.com (Liam O'Brien) Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 09:45:09 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] Re: previous experience with batch scripts in native windows? Message-ID: Georgios,I recently wrote a program to perform a parametric study in the Native Windows version of ESP-r using Matlab, which is a slightly different approach. I'm not sure if it'll be helpful, but I've attached the file. The part that executes prj is at the very end of the code the rest just generates input files. Hope it helps.Liam O'Brien> Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 22:59:59 +0100> From: georgios.kokogiannakis at strath.ac.uk> To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk> Subject: [esp-r] previous experience with batch scripts in native windows?> > Hi everyone,> > I was wondering whether somebody has used batch scripts in the past to perform ESP-r tasks (particularly those of Project Manager) in native Windows (not in Cygwin). I have compiled a text mode ESP-r in Windows and I have a batch script (let's call it: A.bat) that contains the keyboard/keystroke commands required for using ESP-r in MS-DOS command prompt.> However, I can not find a way to pass these commands after I initiate prj.exe .> The closest I can get is when I say something like:> A.bat|prj.exe -file NameOfCfg.cfg -mode text> > Any advice and help on this will be much appreciated.> > Regards,> Georgios> > > _______________________________________________> esp-r mailing list> esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk> http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r _________________________________________________________________ Turn every day into $1000. Learn more at SignInAndWIN.ca http://g.msn.ca/ca55/213 -------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: ESPr_builder.m Url: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080501/35669063/attachment-0001.ksh From David.Tang at owenscorning.com Sun May 4 03:54:21 2008 From: David.Tang at owenscorning.com (Tang, David) Date: Sun, 4 May 2008 10:54:21 +0800 Subject: [esp-r] Re: installing on Vista References: <4817c002.1997600a.3f12.1bc1@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <8E334BEBBF31D54B9989B206FB4A6D0903CA0807@shos6101.ap.corp.owenscorning.com> You do not need to install to run Windows esp-r. Simply copy the folder ESRU from your friend to your C drive. Then copy GTK into ESRU. Save the following text in a file (e.g. setpath.bat). Now open a dos cmd window, type setpath, hit return, the path is set. Type prj (or esp-r), hit return, voila here you go. I actually put ESRU on my 256Mb USB stick (F: drive) and runs happily ever since. In this case, I edited default and esprc, you know what to do. If you have Administrator priviledge you can set global association too. ======================================== :: Green esp-r, no need to install :: Copy the package to c:\ as c:\esru :: to run esp-r, open a cmd; run this batch. set path=C:\Esru\esp-r\bin;C:\Esru\GTK\bin;%path% :: to set association remove the following comment :: assoc .cfg=prj.exe ======================================== Happy esp-r'ing. Regards, David Tang Chief Engineer, Energy Solutions Owens Corning T: +86 21 6101 9587; F: +86 21 6101 9588; m: +86 13817249419 > -----Original Message----- > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk > [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Jon Hand > Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 3:50 PM > To: Danny Bishop; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Subject: [esp-r] Re: installing on Vista > > > I am not aware of any reports yes or no about the installer > on Vista. My guess would be that the basic extraction and > copying of files should work. If there was a problem it might > be in the setting up of the PATH environment variable or in > the association of *.cfg files with the esp-r.cmd script. > > Everyone I know continues to use XP. If anyone out there is > using Vista and could share their experiences that would be useful. > > There should be a new version of ESP-r SOON. So there will > need to be another check when it is released. > > -Jon Hand > > > -----Original Message----- > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk on behalf of Danny Bishop > Sent: Wed 4/30/2008 1:40 AM > To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Subject: [esp-r] installing on Vista > > Hi All > Should the native windows installer work on Vista? > Cheers > Danny > The information contained in this communication and its attachment(s) is intended only for the use of the individual to whom it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential, or exempt from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify postmaster at owenscorning.com and delete the communication without retaining any copies. Thank you. Translations available: http://www.owenscorning.com/emailfooter.html From Holger.Bertling at gmx.de Tue May 6 16:39:51 2008 From: Holger.Bertling at gmx.de (Holger.Bertling at gmx.de) Date: Tue, 06 May 2008 17:39:51 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Fatal error: In ../zones/reception.geo Message-ID: <20080506153951.217000@gmx.net> When I open sample data it works perfekt. When I open selfmade moddels it crashes: b at d:~$ Fatal error: In ../zones/reception.geo expecting 4 items (insolation data) in... 0.00000 4.00000 0.00000 Does anybody know what to do? -- GMX startet ShortView.de. Hier findest Du Leute mit Deinen Interessen! Jetzt dabei sein: http://www.shortview.de/?mc=sv_ext_mf at gmx From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Wed May 7 11:18:38 2008 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 11:18:38 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Fatal error: In ../zones/reception.geo References: <20080506153951.217000@gmx.net> Message-ID: Three items on a line is typical of the section describing verticies. This is followed (in older format geometry files) by two lines of data each of which has a zero for each surface in the zone. Then comes the insolation data which is usually in the form 3 0 0 0 It seems like the geometry file has been corrupted and is confused as to the number of surfaces and vertices to read in. If you were to re-post the message and paste into it the full text of your geometry file that would clarify the issue. Sometimes it is easiest to delete the zone with the problem and re-create it. -Jon -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk on behalf of Holger.Bertling at gmx.de Sent: Tue 5/6/2008 4:39 PM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Fatal error: In ../zones/reception.geo When I open sample data it works perfekt. When I open selfmade moddels it crashes: b at d:~$ Fatal error: In ../zones/reception.geo expecting 4 items (insolation data) in... 0.00000 4.00000 0.00000 Does anybody know what to do? -- GMX startet ShortView.de. Hier findest Du Leute mit Deinen Interessen! Jetzt dabei sein: http://www.shortview.de/?mc=sv_ext_mf at gmx _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From Holger.Bertling at gmx.de Wed May 7 20:06:44 2008 From: Holger.Bertling at gmx.de (Holger.Bertling at gmx.de) Date: Wed, 07 May 2008 21:06:44 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Fatal error: In ../zones/reception.geo In-Reply-To: References: <20080506153951.217000@gmx.net> Message-ID: <20080507190644.248430@gmx.net> Here is the Geo-File: # geometry of reception defined in: ../zones/reception.geo GEN reception reception describes a... # type, name, descr 34 14 0.000 # vertices, surfaces, rotation angle # X co-ord, Y co-ord, Z co-ord 1.00000 1.00000 0.00000 # vert 1 9.00000 1.00000 0.00000 # vert 2 9.00000 4.50000 0.00000 # vert 3 9.00000 9.00000 0.00000 # vert 4 5.00000 9.00000 0.00000 # vert 5 5.00000 5.00000 0.00000 # vert 6 1.00000 5.00000 0.00000 # vert 7 1.00000 1.00000 3.00000 # vert 8 9.00000 1.00000 3.00000 # vert 9 9.00000 4.50000 3.00000 # vert 10 9.00000 9.00000 3.00000 # vert 11 5.00000 9.00000 3.00000 # vert 12 5.00000 5.00000 3.00000 # vert 13 1.00000 5.00000 3.00000 # vert 14 2.00000 1.00000 1.00000 # vert 15 8.00000 1.00000 1.00000 # vert 16 8.00000 1.00000 2.25000 # vert 17 2.00000 1.00000 2.25000 # vert 18 9.00000 5.00000 0.00000 # vert 19 9.00000 6.00000 0.00000 # vert 20 9.00000 6.00000 2.50000 # vert 21 9.00000 5.00000 2.50000 # vert 22 5.00000 7.00000 0.00000 # vert 23 5.00000 6.00000 0.00000 # vert 24 5.00000 6.00000 2.50000 # vert 25 5.00000 7.00000 2.50000 # vert 26 1.00000 3.00000 0.00000 # vert 27 1.00000 2.00000 0.00000 # vert 28 1.00000 2.00000 2.50000 # vert 29 1.00000 3.00000 2.50000 # vert 30 9.00000 2.00000 1.00000 # vert 31 9.00000 4.00000 1.00000 # vert 32 9.00000 4.00000 2.25000 # vert 33 9.00000 2.00000 2.25000 # vert 34 # no of vertices followed by list of associated vert 10, 1, 2, 9, 8, 1, 15, 18, 17, 16, 15, 10, 2, 3, 10, 9, 2, 31, 34, 33, 32, 31, 8, 3, 19, 22, 21, 20, 4, 11, 10, 4, 4, 5, 12, 11, 8, 5, 23, 26, 25, 24, 6, 13, 12, 4, 6, 7, 14, 13, 8, 7, 27, 30, 29, 28, 1, 8, 14, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 13, 1, 28, 27, 7, 6, 24, 23, 5, 4, 20, 19, 3, 2, 4, 15, 16, 17, 18, 4, 19, 20, 21, 22, 4, 23, 24, 25, 26, 4, 27, 28, 29, 30, 4, 31, 32, 33, 34, # unused index 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0 # surfaces indentation (m) 0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00 3 0 0 0 # default insolation distribution # surface attributes follow: # id surface geom loc/ construction environment # no name type posn name other side 1, south OPAQ VERT extern_wall EXTERIOR 2, east OPAQ VERT extern_wall EXTERIOR 3, passage OPAQ VERT gyp_blk_ptn SIMILAR 4, north OPAQ VERT extern_wall EXTERIOR 5, part_a OPAQ VERT extern_wall EXTERIOR 6, part_b OPAQ VERT extern_wall EXTERIOR 7, west OPAQ VERT extern_wall EXTERIOR 8, ceiling OPAQ CEIL roof_1 EXTERIOR 9, floor OPAQ FLOR floor_1 CONSTANT 10, glz_s TRAN VERT dbl_glz EXTERIOR 11, door_p OPAQ VERT door EXTERIOR 12, door_a OPAQ VERT door EXTERIOR 13, door_w OPAQ VERT door EXTERIOR 14, east_glz TRAN VERT dbl_glz EXTERIOR # base 9 0 0 0 0 0 48.00 Thanks for your fast reply! -------- Original-Nachricht -------- > Datum: Wed, 7 May 2008 11:18:38 +0100 > Von: "Jon Hand" > An: Holger.Bertling at gmx.de, esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Betreff: [esp-r] Re: Fatal error: In ../zones/reception.geo > > Three items on a line is typical of the section describing > verticies. This is followed (in older format geometry files) > by two lines of data each of which has a zero for each surface > in the zone. Then comes the insolation data which > is usually in the form > 3 0 0 0 > > It seems like the geometry file has been corrupted and > is confused as to the number of surfaces and vertices > to read in. > > If you were to re-post the message and paste into it > the full text of your geometry file that would clarify > the issue. > > Sometimes it is easiest to delete the zone with the problem > and re-create it. > > -Jon > > > -----Original Message----- > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk on behalf of Holger.Bertling at gmx.de > Sent: Tue 5/6/2008 4:39 PM > To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Subject: [esp-r] Fatal error: In ../zones/reception.geo > > When I open sample data it works perfekt. > When I open selfmade moddels it crashes: > > > b at d:~$ Fatal error: In ../zones/reception.geo expecting 4 items > (insolation data) in... > 0.00000 4.00000 0.00000 > > Does anybody know what to do? > -- > GMX startet ShortView.de. Hier findest Du Leute mit Deinen Interessen! > Jetzt dabei sein: http://www.shortview.de/?mc=sv_ext_mf at gmx > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r -- 249 Spiele f?r nur 1 Preis. Die GMX Spieleflatrate schon ab 9,90 Euro. Neu: Asterix bei den Olympischen Spielen: http://flat.games.gmx.de From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Wed May 7 23:21:59 2008 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 23:21:59 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Fatal error: In ../zones/reception.geo References: <20080506153951.217000@gmx.net> <20080507190644.248430@gmx.net> Message-ID: I do not think the error message is related to this file. There is no line in it with 0.0 4.0 0.0. The insolation line is correct in the file you sent. This geometry file looks ok. There is the correct number of surfaces and vertices. -Jon -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk on behalf of Holger.Bertling at gmx.de Sent: Wed 5/7/2008 8:06 PM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Re: Fatal error: In ../zones/reception.geo Here is the Geo-File: # geometry of reception defined in: ../zones/reception.geo GEN reception reception describes a... # type, name, descr 34 14 0.000 # vertices, surfaces, rotation angle # X co-ord, Y co-ord, Z co-ord 1.00000 1.00000 0.00000 # vert 1 9.00000 1.00000 0.00000 # vert 2 9.00000 4.50000 0.00000 # vert 3 9.00000 9.00000 0.00000 # vert 4 5.00000 9.00000 0.00000 # vert 5 5.00000 5.00000 0.00000 # vert 6 1.00000 5.00000 0.00000 # vert 7 1.00000 1.00000 3.00000 # vert 8 9.00000 1.00000 3.00000 # vert 9 9.00000 4.50000 3.00000 # vert 10 9.00000 9.00000 3.00000 # vert 11 5.00000 9.00000 3.00000 # vert 12 5.00000 5.00000 3.00000 # vert 13 1.00000 5.00000 3.00000 # vert 14 2.00000 1.00000 1.00000 # vert 15 8.00000 1.00000 1.00000 # vert 16 8.00000 1.00000 2.25000 # vert 17 2.00000 1.00000 2.25000 # vert 18 9.00000 5.00000 0.00000 # vert 19 9.00000 6.00000 0.00000 # vert 20 9.00000 6.00000 2.50000 # vert 21 9.00000 5.00000 2.50000 # vert 22 5.00000 7.00000 0.00000 # vert 23 5.00000 6.00000 0.00000 # vert 24 5.00000 6.00000 2.50000 # vert 25 5.00000 7.00000 2.50000 # vert 26 1.00000 3.00000 0.00000 # vert 27 1.00000 2.00000 0.00000 # vert 28 1.00000 2.00000 2.50000 # vert 29 1.00000 3.00000 2.50000 # vert 30 9.00000 2.00000 1.00000 # vert 31 9.00000 4.00000 1.00000 # vert 32 9.00000 4.00000 2.25000 # vert 33 9.00000 2.00000 2.25000 # vert 34 # no of vertices followed by list of associated vert 10, 1, 2, 9, 8, 1, 15, 18, 17, 16, 15, 10, 2, 3, 10, 9, 2, 31, 34, 33, 32, 31, 8, 3, 19, 22, 21, 20, 4, 11, 10, 4, 4, 5, 12, 11, 8, 5, 23, 26, 25, 24, 6, 13, 12, 4, 6, 7, 14, 13, 8, 7, 27, 30, 29, 28, 1, 8, 14, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 13, 1, 28, 27, 7, 6, 24, 23, 5, 4, 20, 19, 3, 2, 4, 15, 16, 17, 18, 4, 19, 20, 21, 22, 4, 23, 24, 25, 26, 4, 27, 28, 29, 30, 4, 31, 32, 33, 34, # unused index 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0 # surfaces indentation (m) 0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00 3 0 0 0 # default insolation distribution # surface attributes follow: # id surface geom loc/ construction environment # no name type posn name other side 1, south OPAQ VERT extern_wall EXTERIOR 2, east OPAQ VERT extern_wall EXTERIOR 3, passage OPAQ VERT gyp_blk_ptn SIMILAR 4, north OPAQ VERT extern_wall EXTERIOR 5, part_a OPAQ VERT extern_wall EXTERIOR 6, part_b OPAQ VERT extern_wall EXTERIOR 7, west OPAQ VERT extern_wall EXTERIOR 8, ceiling OPAQ CEIL roof_1 EXTERIOR 9, floor OPAQ FLOR floor_1 CONSTANT 10, glz_s TRAN VERT dbl_glz EXTERIOR 11, door_p OPAQ VERT door EXTERIOR 12, door_a OPAQ VERT door EXTERIOR 13, door_w OPAQ VERT door EXTERIOR 14, east_glz TRAN VERT dbl_glz EXTERIOR # base 9 0 0 0 0 0 48.00 Thanks for your fast reply! -------- Original-Nachricht -------- > Datum: Wed, 7 May 2008 11:18:38 +0100 > Von: "Jon Hand" > An: Holger.Bertling at gmx.de, esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Betreff: [esp-r] Re: Fatal error: In ../zones/reception.geo > > Three items on a line is typical of the section describing > verticies. This is followed (in older format geometry files) > by two lines of data each of which has a zero for each surface > in the zone. Then comes the insolation data which > is usually in the form > 3 0 0 0 > > It seems like the geometry file has been corrupted and > is confused as to the number of surfaces and vertices > to read in. > > If you were to re-post the message and paste into it > the full text of your geometry file that would clarify > the issue. > > Sometimes it is easiest to delete the zone with the problem > and re-create it. > > -Jon > > > -----Original Message----- > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk on behalf of Holger.Bertling at gmx.de > Sent: Tue 5/6/2008 4:39 PM > To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Subject: [esp-r] Fatal error: In ../zones/reception.geo > > When I open sample data it works perfekt. > When I open selfmade moddels it crashes: > > > b at d:~$ Fatal error: In ../zones/reception.geo expecting 4 items > (insolation data) in... > 0.00000 4.00000 0.00000 > > Does anybody know what to do? > -- > GMX startet ShortView.de. Hier findest Du Leute mit Deinen Interessen! > Jetzt dabei sein: http://www.shortview.de/?mc=sv_ext_mf at gmx > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r -- 249 Spiele f?r nur 1 Preis. Die GMX Spieleflatrate schon ab 9,90 Euro. Neu: Asterix bei den Olympischen Spielen: http://flat.games.gmx.de _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From ibeausol at mae.carleton.ca Thu May 8 13:05:40 2008 From: ibeausol at mae.carleton.ca (Ian Beausoleil-Morrison) Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 08:05:40 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] release of ESP-r version 11.5 Message-ID: <014a01c8b103$d5c75d90$815618b0$@carleton.ca> Dear ESP-r users and developers, Version 11.5 of the ESP-r system is now available. A summary of the changes and new features included in this release is given at the bottom of this e-mail. The source code may be accessed via the ESP-r Central Subversion repository. To do this, you must first install a Subversion client on your system. Free clients are available at http://subversion.tigris.org/project_packages.html. Once you have installed the Subversion client you can download the source code for version 11.5 of ESP-r anonymously using the following command: svn checkout https://esp-r.net/espr/esp-r/trunk OR svn checkout http://esp-r.net/espr/esp-r/trunk If you already downloaded the source code of a previous version with the above command, then you do not have to do a full download of version 11.5. Rather, you can update the source code by executing the following command from your "trunk" directory: svn update (ESP-r developers who wish to make source code contributions to ESP-r should contact Alex Ferguson at afersugo at nrcan.gc.ca who can configure an account for you on ESP-r Central. Further information on ESP-r Central for developers is available on the ESRU web site.) ESP-r source code is available exclusively through ESP-r Central. However, ESRU will continue to produce and post pre-compiled versions for specific operating environments on its web site. These binary versions will generally be made available within a few days of a source code release and will be announced to this e-mail list. Release notes will also continue to be posted on the ESRU web site. Regards, - Ian Ian Beausoleil-Morrison ESP-r Archivist on behalf of the ESP-r development team Carleton University Ottawa, Canada Release Notes 11.5 (May 2008) =============== Simulator --------- - A new computational engine has been developed for the ish module to enable obstruction blocks to cross the plane of a zone surface. - New functionality has been added to ish and bps to calculate diffuse shading. - ish bugs relating to non-south facing inclined surfaces have been addressed. - An error in the calculation of sun position unit vector x, y, z coordinates was corrected. This only affects radiance calculations when conducted silently and when a daylight coefficient casual gains control is assinged in the model. - A number of options have been added for the calculation of sky temperatures for longwave radiation exchange from external surfaces. These can be invoked through a simulation toggle. - A bug in the WATSUN-PV special material model has been corrected. This bug could, in some situations, predict an electrical production at night. - A bug in the 2-node plant radiator model (type 21) has been corrected. Previously, the model incorrectly computed the heat transfer from the radiator when no water flowed through the radiator. - A simplified PI room controller has been added that is specially adapted to room control of wet central heating (WCH) systems. - An outside temperature compensation controller has been added for WCH systems. - The functionality of the generic TRNSYS "wrapper" has been expanded and a number of bugs have been corrected to enable the use of multiple TRNSYS TYPE's within an ESP-r plant network. Project Manager --------------- - Additional functionality has been added in preparation for demonstrating compliance with the UK building regulations. - Heating and cooling setpoints for zone controls can now be imported from temporal files. - Improvements have been made to the facility that creates air and water flow networks and to the underlying data model. - The user interface of the ish module has been improved by the rationalisation of terminology and the updating of help outputs. Results Analyzer ---------------- - The facilities for reporting ish shading results have been rationalised and extended. - The recovery of casual-gains results has been simplified and improved. - ESP-r has supported the viewing of CFD results by the third-party TECPlot tool for some time. This export facility has been updated to support the current format for TECPlot. Support has also been added for an alternative OpenSource CFD results viewing facility called ParaView. Climate Data ------------ - Two methods for diffuse solar from global horizontal have been added to the clm module to support import of Korean MET data. Additional Changes ------------------ - Many additional changes have been made that are transparent to the user. Information on these, as well as further details on all the above-mentioned changes, can be found in ESP-r Central's change log by providing the following URL to your web browser: https://esp-r.net/vvc/espr/esp-r/branches/development_branch. From cah at byg.dtu.dk Fri May 9 15:43:32 2008 From: cah at byg.dtu.dk (Christian Anker Hviid) Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 16:43:32 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Unable to specify sensor location in ctl file in vers. 11.5 Message-ID: <78B14BBA2B77DF4186B975430E16648B015658@mail3.byg.dtu.dk> Hello ESP-r community I did a compilation of the new ESP-r version 11.5 and I have three issues with the program. I don't know where to send them, so here they are. 1. When I specify a control file, I can no longer specify the sensor location. Program simply skips that part. 2. When I link a plant with a mass flow network, the following lines should be written in the pln file, but is not. 'pvs' is the project name. # Mass flow network definition. 1 ../nets/pvs.afn /usr/esru/esp-r/databases/pressc.db1 ../tmp/pvs.mfr 3. In the plant component database I do not have access to change the (min, max) ranges of the input data. I have to change them manually before compilation. Best regards Christian Anker Hviid Industrial PhD candidate DTU BYG Technical University of Denmark Brovej, building 118 DK-2800 Lyngby Phone DTU: +45 4525 1886 Phone Alectia: +45 8819 1365 Mail: cah at byg.dtu.dk From AFerguso at NRCan.gc.ca Fri May 9 17:16:42 2008 From: AFerguso at NRCan.gc.ca (Ferguson, Alex) Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 12:16:42 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Unable to specify sensor location in ctl file in vers. 11.5 References: <78B14BBA2B77DF4186B975430E16648B015658@mail3.byg.dtu.dk> Message-ID: Hi Christian, I took a quick look at your note: * Re #1: I'm unable to reproduce this bug. I find that, after creating a new control file, or selecting an existing one, I can correctly define the sensor location for both zone and plant control loops using the standard prj dialogues. Can you send a description of the steps you followed prior to encountering this error? * Re #2, I'm not familiar with linkages between plant and mass flow networks. Perhaps someone with more experience in this area can comment? * Re #3. As you say, you can't adjust the minimum and maximum values associated with plant component parameters. But I'm unsure if this is a new bug, or a long-standing deficiency in pdb. We've made only trivial changes to the pdb code base over the last few years --- can you confirm that this bug was indeed introduced in release 11.5? Also, please send the output of these commands: * $ prj -buildinfo * $ gcc -v Thanks! Alex Ferguson Sustainable Buildings and Communities (Housing Group) CANMET Energy Technology Centre Natural Resources Canada P:+1 613 995 3294 F:+1 613 996 9909 Alex.Ferguson at nrcan.gc.ca ________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk on behalf of Christian Anker Hviid Sent: Fri 09/05/2008 10:43 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Unable to specify sensor location in ctl file in vers. 11.5 Hello ESP-r community I did a compilation of the new ESP-r version 11.5 and I have three issues with the program. I don't know where to send them, so here they are. 1. When I specify a control file, I can no longer specify the sensor location. Program simply skips that part. 2. When I link a plant with a mass flow network, the following lines should be written in the pln file, but is not. 'pvs' is the project name. # Mass flow network definition. 1 ../nets/pvs.afn /usr/esru/esp-r/databases/pressc.db1 ../tmp/pvs.mfr 3. In the plant component database I do not have access to change the (min, max) ranges of the input data. I have to change them manually before compilation. Best regards Christian Anker Hviid Industrial PhD candidate DTU BYG Technical University of Denmark Brovej, building 118 DK-2800 Lyngby Phone DTU: +45 4525 1886 Phone Alectia: +45 8819 1365 Mail: cah at byg.dtu.dk _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Mon May 12 04:21:17 2008 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 04:21:17 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Importing DXF data into ESP-r models (followup) Message-ID: Importing DXF file data into ESP-r... I had a look at a user submitted DXF file. I found glitches in the code that prevented a correct import. I have been testing and documenting that new code and it will work its way into the development branch. If you have to have this facility now you should checkout the Jon_Hand branch from esp-r.net and Install/compile. Note that the DXF import is still under testing and it might not work for you. If you do test it out and find further glitches then your DXF file might be a good candidate for testing/debug. Regards, Jon Hand From bish.dj at gmail.com Mon May 12 00:38:02 2008 From: bish.dj at gmail.com (Danny Bishop) Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 09:38:02 +1000 Subject: [esp-r] warnings Message-ID: <48278360.0b97600a.28bb.ffffe4b8@mx.google.com> Hi All Can anyone tell me what the following errors are trying to tell me, and if it is a problem, and also if this sort of info is documented anywhere? WARNING: in ./test_building.con: 0.83680, 1300.000, 1046.00000, 1.50000, 0, 0.00, 0.00000, 0.00000 the thick (m) value (1.5000) > normal maximum 0.50000! WARNING: in ./test_building.con: 0.322 1.000 0.322 1.000 1.000 1.000 0.190 the inside face abs value (1.0000) > normal maximum 0.99900! cheers Danny -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080512/fac9fc22/attachment.html From bish.dj at gmail.com Mon May 12 00:49:07 2008 From: bish.dj at gmail.com (Danny Bishop) Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 09:49:07 +1000 Subject: [esp-r] simulation dates Message-ID: <482785f9.1997600a.5b1c.16da@mx.google.com> Hi All Can anyone tell me why I am getting invalid dates? I have specified them correctly.. Monthly metrics: Month Heating Cooling Heating Cooling Month (kWhr) (kwhr) (MJ) (MJ) Jan 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 The date 0 1 2000 is illegal. The date 0 1 2000 is illegal. The date 0 1 2000 is illegal. The date 0 1 2000 is illegal. The date 0 1 2000 is illegal. The date 0 1 2000 is illegal. The date 0 1 2000 is illegal. The date 0 1 2000 is illegal. Climate file : C:/Esru/esp-r/climate/clm67 Configuration file : ecotoesprtest.cfg Configuration name : ecotoesprtest.eco, -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080512/48a9f02d/attachment.html From bish.dj at gmail.com Mon May 12 05:28:10 2008 From: bish.dj at gmail.com (Danny Bishop) Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 14:28:10 +1000 Subject: [esp-r] spreadsheet output Message-ID: <4827c761.0b97600a.28bb.2443@mx.google.com> Hi All I'm walking down the path where "there be dragons", and would like to know how to import the info from the .res results file into excel so I can do some post processing on the hourly results. Cheers Danny -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080512/51e8f0fc/attachment.html From leen.peeters at mech.kuleuven.be Mon May 12 09:50:50 2008 From: leen.peeters at mech.kuleuven.be (Leen Peeters) Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 10:50:50 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: spreadsheet output References: <4827c761.0b97600a.28bb.2443@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <002d01c8b40d$4799dea0$6701a8c0@tme05001> spreadsheet outputDanny. in the results modulem you can select different options, In stead of graphical. use the one under that (working in windows now, so cannot check it) and then continue your selection of results data. Finally do not print them on the screenm but select a print to file. You can do an import external data in excell to do sone post processing.... Leen Peeters University of Leuven Postbox: 02421 APPLIED MECHANICS AND ENERGY CONVERSION office number 02.050 Celestijnenlaan 300A 3001 Heverlee Belgium Phone +32-16-322.518 ----- Original Message ----- From: Danny Bishop To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Sent: Monday, May 12, 2008 6:28 AM Subject: [esp-r] spreadsheet output Hi All I'm walking down the path where "there be dragons", and would like to know how to import the info from the .res results file into excel so I can do some post processing on the hourly results. Cheers Danny ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r Disclaimer: http://www.kuleuven.be/cwis/email_disclaimer.htm -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080512/43c6abfc/attachment-0001.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Mon May 12 11:01:10 2008 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 11:01:10 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: warnings References: <48278360.0b97600a.28bb.ffffe4b8@mx.google.com> Message-ID: A single layer thickness of 1.5m is going to make the solver work very very very hard. Recommend you create at least 3 and, if possible about 6 layers to represent such a thick construction. There is advise in several places in the interface and in the documentation that suggests how to deal with thick constructions. The interface probably warned you when you were creating this thick layer. There is no real material that has absolute absorption and so it warns you. Put in 0.999 will be very close to that absolute state. -Jon Hand -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk on behalf of Danny Bishop Sent: Mon 5/12/2008 12:38 AM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] warnings Hi All Can anyone tell me what the following errors are trying to tell me, and if it is a problem, and also if this sort of info is documented anywhere? WARNING: in ./test_building.con: 0.83680, 1300.000, 1046.00000, 1.50000, 0, 0.00, 0.00000, 0.00000 the thick (m) value (1.5000) > normal maximum 0.50000! WARNING: in ./test_building.con: 0.322 1.000 0.322 1.000 1.000 1.000 0.190 the inside face abs value (1.0000) > normal maximum 0.99900! cheers Danny From bish.dj at gmail.com Tue May 13 04:28:57 2008 From: bish.dj at gmail.com (Danny Bishop) Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 13:28:57 +1000 Subject: [esp-r] exporting from E+ or ecotect Message-ID: <48290afc.081b600a.0b8f.22ca@mx.google.com> Hi All Can anyone tell me how to import to ESP-r from E+? I have done it from Ecotect, but it didn't work very well - the external shading didn't seem to come through, and the weather file was corrupted. Cheers Danny -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080513/e7335ba1/attachment.html From bish.dj at gmail.com Tue May 13 05:21:42 2008 From: bish.dj at gmail.com (Danny Bishop) Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 14:21:42 +1000 Subject: [esp-r] bizarre warning Message-ID: <48291759.1bbd600a.678c.38f5@mx.google.com> Hi all I get a bizarre warning when I try and run an integrated simulation: Mismatch in nb of thermophysical properties data in Any ideas? Thanks Danny -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080513/4fb62c8e/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Tue May 13 09:35:58 2008 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 09:35:58 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: exporting from E+ or ecotect References: <48290afc.081b600a.0b8f.22ca@mx.google.com> Message-ID: That is an easy question. ESP-r can export to EnergyPlus but it does not import an EnergyPlus model. Ecotect is about the best approximation at the moment. With any such conversion you probably should leave quite a bit of time to carefully look over the converted model. There is a very robust converter of weather files from the EPW format into ESP-r. If this did not work for you then this needs to be investigated. -Jon Hand -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk on behalf of Danny Bishop Sent: Tue 5/13/2008 4:28 AM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] exporting from E+ or ecotect Hi All Can anyone tell me how to import to ESP-r from E+? I have done it from Ecotect, but it didn't work very well - the external shading didn't seem to come through, and the weather file was corrupted. Cheers Danny From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Tue May 13 09:47:55 2008 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 09:47:55 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: bizarre warning References: <48291759.1bbd600a.678c.38f5@mx.google.com> Message-ID: This message is from the code that reads a zone construction file. It is expecting either 4 or 8 items on a data line and is finding something else. This part of the file includes the conductivity, density, specific heat etc for each layer of each construction. If you had asked for a simulation from within the project manager it should have flagged up the zone construction file as having a problem. Recommend that you re-create the zone construction files. There is an option to rebuild zone construction files in the interface (look at the bottom of the list of zones in the constructions menu). -Jon Hand -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk on behalf of Danny Bishop Sent: Tue 5/13/2008 5:21 AM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] bizarre warning Hi all I get a bizarre warning when I try and run an integrated simulation: Mismatch in nb of thermophysical properties data in Any ideas? Thanks Danny From claricebleil at yahoo.com.br Wed May 14 08:43:46 2008 From: claricebleil at yahoo.com.br (Clarice Bleil de Souza) Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 04:43:46 -0300 (ART) Subject: [esp-r] Re: exporting from E+ or ecotect In-Reply-To: <48290afc.081b600a.0b8f.22ca@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <854952.59835.qm@web51701.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hi Danny, I have been there before and the best option is to do the model in Ecotect without the shading devices, export it to ESP-r and then add the shading devices in ESP-r. Shading devices in ESP-r used to be blocks and Ecotect works with planes so the 2 were not compatible. Add the shading devices later in ESP-r and it will work much better. Hope I could help. Regards, Clarice Danny Bishop escreveu: Hi All Can anyone tell me how to import to ESP-r from E+? I have done it from Ecotect, but it didn?t work very well ? the external shading didn?t seem to come through, and the weather file was corrupted Cheers Danny _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r --------------------------------- Abra sua conta no Yahoo! Mail, o ?nico sem limite de espa?o para armazenamento! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080514/0a050c3b/attachment.html From zhongqiu at cityu.edu.hk Wed May 14 12:40:06 2008 From: zhongqiu at cityu.edu.hk (Dr.QIU) Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 19:40:06 +0800 Subject: [esp-r] absorptivity and absorption of 5 angles??? Message-ID: <0K0U00IW3WDNCD80@smtp04.cityu.edu.hk> Dear all, In ESP-r's "material database", each type of glass has some properties as follows: Thick 8mm Conductivity 1.05 W/m.C Density 2500 kg/m3 Specific heat 750 kJ/kg.c Emissivity 0.84 Solar absorptivity 0.27 and at the same time I can define the "optical property" for the above glass(traparent construction) through specifying one certain item from the "optical database". its optical property may be as follows: ISO 6946 U values (horiz/upward/downward heat flow)= 5.630 6.774 4.595 (partition) 3.737 Direct transmission @ 0, 40, 55, 70, 80 deg 0.230 0.224 0.212 0.172 0.104 Layer| absorption @ 0, 40, 55, 70, 80 deg 1 0.329 0.358 0.381 0.388 0.358 My questons are, (1) For Solar Absorptivity(0.27 here) and absorption of 5 angles(0.329,0.358,0.381,0.388,0.358 here), which one is used in the calculation? (2)What relationship exists between Solar Absorptivity and "absorption of 5 angles"? I tried again and again, and I find that the simulation result will not change if only either of the above two is changed. The simulation result will change if both of them are changed. Any answers are welcomed. Thank you in advance. Regards, Qiu From Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch Wed May 14 15:19:53 2008 From: Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch (Geissler Achim) Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 16:19:53 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: absorptivity and absorption of 5 angles??? References: <0K0U00IW3WDNCD80@smtp04.cityu.edu.hk> Message-ID: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C45E840@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Dear Qiu, the way it *should* be IMO is that all radiation-relevant properties are defined by the entry in the optics.db (at 5 angles). The thermal information is taken from the materials.db (called constr.db1 or constr.db2, typically). Normally, any changes to "solar absorptivity" in the constr.dbx entries should *not* have any effect on simulation results. The emissivity, however, is taken from the constr.dbx. Do you really find changes in results if you *only* change the solar absorptivity in the constr.dbx entry? Regards, Achim > -----Original Message----- > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r- > bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Dr.QIU > Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2008 1:40 PM > To: esp-r > Subject: [esp-r] absorptivity and absorption of 5 angles??? > > Dear all, > > In ESP-r's "material database", each type of glass has some properties as > follows: > > Thick 8mm > Conductivity 1.05 W/m.C > Density 2500 kg/m3 > Specific heat 750 kJ/kg.c > Emissivity 0.84 > Solar absorptivity 0.27 > > and at the same time I can define the "optical property" for the above > glass(traparent construction) through specifying one certain item from the > "optical database". its optical property may be as follows: > > ISO 6946 U values (horiz/upward/downward heat flow)= 5.630 6.774 4.595 > (partition) 3.737 > Direct transmission @ 0, 40, 55, 70, 80 deg > 0.230 0.224 0.212 0.172 0.104 > Layer| absorption @ 0, 40, 55, 70, 80 deg > 1 0.329 0.358 0.381 0.388 0.358 > > My questons are, > (1) For Solar Absorptivity(0.27 here) and absorption of 5 > angles(0.329,0.358,0.381,0.388,0.358 here), which one is used in the > calculation? > (2)What relationship exists between Solar Absorptivity and "absorption of > 5 angles"? > > I tried again and again, and I find that the simulation result will not > change if only either of the above two is changed. The simulation result > will change if both of them are changed. > > Any answers are welcomed. > > Thank you in advance. > > Regards, > > Qiu > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From george.makrythanasis at gia.uk.com Wed May 14 17:40:05 2008 From: george.makrythanasis at gia.uk.com (George Makrythanasis) Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 17:40:05 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] RFI: Radiance + ESP_r Message-ID: <782CC3BA2165254895A9814C854492AE059CB1AB@giamailsrv.GIA.local> Dear all, My name is George Makrythanasis and I am working for a daylight design consultancy. I was thinking how it will be possible to make Radiance and Esp-r to interact between them. To make myself clear, what I try to achieve is a dynamic approach to daylight and thermal design. For the moment using Perl we can script and use radiance programs to indentify the best scenario for different cases. What I need to find out is if it will be possible to use the ESP-r code within a script and exchange information in terms of thermal performance. Is Esp-r build with the Radiance way consisting from several programs doing different jobs? Is there an equivalent program for rtrace within ESP-r written in C code that I could incorporate to my Perl script as an extra parameter for the optimization of a scenario? I hope that make some sense and I thank you in advance for your time. Best Regards, George Makrythanasis Daylight Design Consultant DDI: 020 7202 1474 The Whitehouse Belvedere Road London SE1 8GA t 020 7202 1400 f 020 7202 1401 Winners of BCO & Mixology Awards 2006 Visit www.gia.uk.com to read about our services ________________________________ The information in this email and in any attachments is CONFIDENTIAL and may be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not copy or disclose its content but contact the sender immediately upon receipt. The views expressed in this message are those of the individual and not necessarily those of GIA. The recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. GIA accepts no liability for damage caused by any virus transmitted via this email. Our terms and conditions of business are available upon request. P Please consider the environment before printing this email -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080514/de84eeec/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 1369 bytes Desc: image001.jpg Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080514/de84eeec/attachment.jpe From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Wed May 14 22:26:26 2008 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 22:26:26 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: RFI: Radiance + ESP_r (they do work together) References: <782CC3BA2165254895A9814C854492AE059CB1AB@giamailsrv.GIA.local> Message-ID: George asked a question about ESP-r and Radiance.... These two suites of tools have been working together for about a decade. ESP-r on any machine except native windows (and that has been mostly fixed) will generate a Radiance model and run it to generate images and to get daylight factors and to create animations of sunlight patterns over a day. There is a control law that allows the ESP-r simulator to call Radiance at each timestep to get the lux at a specific sensor point. I do not know if anyone has used that facility recently. There is certainly the structure in place for co-operation between ESP-r and Radiance and perhaps someone could think of some new functionality that could be added. -Jon Hand -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk on behalf of George Makrythanasis Sent: Wed 5/14/2008 5:40 PM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Cc: Alex Penna; Simone Pagani Subject: [esp-r] RFI: Radiance + ESP_r Dear all, My name is George Makrythanasis and I am working for a daylight design consultancy. I was thinking how it will be possible to make Radiance and Esp-r to interact between them. To make myself clear, what I try to achieve is a dynamic approach to daylight and thermal design. For the moment using Perl we can script and use radiance programs to indentify the best scenario for different cases. What I need to find out is if it will be possible to use the ESP-r code within a script and exchange information in terms of thermal performance. Is Esp-r build with the Radiance way consisting from several programs doing different jobs? Is there an equivalent program for rtrace within ESP-r written in C code that I could incorporate to my Perl script as an extra parameter for the optimization of a scenario? I hope that make some sense and I thank you in advance for your time. Best Regards, George Makrythanasis Daylight Design Consultant DDI: 020 7202 1474 The Whitehouse Belvedere Road London SE1 8GA t 020 7202 1400 f 020 7202 1401 Winners of BCO & Mixology Awards 2006 Visit www.gia.uk.com to read about our services ________________________________ The information in this email and in any attachments is CONFIDENTIAL and may be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not copy or disclose its content but contact the sender immediately upon receipt. The views expressed in this message are those of the individual and not necessarily those of GIA. The recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. GIA accepts no liability for damage caused by any virus transmitted via this email. Our terms and conditions of business are available upon request. P Please consider the environment before printing this email -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1369 bytes Desc: image001.jpg Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080514/50a911de/attachment.jpg From zhongqiu at cityu.edu.hk Thu May 15 11:31:23 2008 From: zhongqiu at cityu.edu.hk (QIU) Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 18:31:23 +0800 Subject: [esp-r] refraction index Message-ID: <0K0W000MQNWCIG50@smtp04.cityu.edu.hk> Dear all, In ESP-r's "optical database". I find a word "refraction index" before angular absorption. I wonder if or how "refraction index" is used in calculation? Any answers are welcomed. Thank you in advance. Regards, Qiu From zhongqiu at cityu.edu.hk Thu May 15 11:36:50 2008 From: zhongqiu at cityu.edu.hk (QIU) Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 18:36:50 +0800 Subject: [esp-r] typical "absorptive glass" Message-ID: <0K0W000BPO5FIG60@smtp04.cityu.edu.hk> Dear all, What is the definition for "absorptive glass"? Could anyone give some typical optical properties of "absorptive glass"? Thank you in advance. Regards, Qiu From zhongqiu at cityu.edu.hk Thu May 15 12:39:51 2008 From: zhongqiu at cityu.edu.hk (QIU) Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 19:39:51 +0800 Subject: [esp-r] =?gb2312?b?IKGwU09MVkVOVCBXaW50ZXIgbW9kZSBmbG93IGNvbXBvbmVudKGx?= =?gb2312?b?IGFuZCChsFNPTFZFTlQgV2ludGVyIG1vZGUgZmxvdyBjb21wb25lbnShsQ==?= Message-ID: <0K0W000LKR2FIGC0@smtp04.cityu.edu.hk> Dear all, According to the dissertation of Dr. V. Leal, he added two components, ?SOLVENT Winter mode flow component? and ?SOLVENT Winter mode flow component?into ESP-r's network defining menu to simulate the SOLVENT window, But why can't I find either component of them in ESP-r? Thank you. Regards, Qiu From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Thu May 15 14:30:40 2008 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 14:30:40 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: "SOLVENT Winter mode flow component" and "SOLVENT Winter mode flow component" References: <0K0W000LKR2FIGC0@smtp04.cityu.edu.hk> Message-ID: The flow component is not named SOLVENT. There are two components in the flow network which V Leal worked on - component index 11 (self adjusting vent) and component 211 (roof cowl). Perhaps you will find what you are looking for there. -Jon Hand -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk on behalf of QIU Sent: Thu 5/15/2008 12:39 PM To: esp-r Subject: [esp-r] "SOLVENT Winter mode flow component" and "SOLVENT Winter mode flow component" Dear all, According to the dissertation of Dr. V. Leal, he added two components, "SOLVENT Winter mode flow component" and "SOLVENT Winter mode flow component"into ESP-r's network defining menu to simulate the SOLVENT window, But why can't I find either component of them in ESP-r? Thank you. Regards, Qiu _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Mon May 19 04:34:39 2008 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 04:34:39 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] anyone have opinions about representing active and passive chilled beams in esp-r? Message-ID: I have a project that will start soon in which the design team want to try some active and passive chilled beams and possibly chilled ceilings in the design. Given the general nature of ESP-r there are likely several different approaches to including such ideas into an ESP-r model. Some will be abstract and some might involve system components. I would like to know if any in the community have advise or tips or ideas or horror stories about this. There is, I know, the logical bottleneck that a chilled panel needs to be controlled both to deliver cooling but also to limit condensation risk and that would require sensing two things. There is, for me an experiential gap in that I am not sure how well piping embedded in a construction (if that was the approach taken) actually does the heat exchange between the fluid and the construction. I can imagine a hybrid representation of a chilled ceiling as a thin zone with cooling inside - and that has the issue with the need to control for temperature and condensation. Anyone want to join in the discussion or contribute a small model that demonstrates an approach? Regards, Jon Hand From lxq51888 at gmail.com Mon May 19 05:32:58 2008 From: lxq51888 at gmail.com (Xiaoqiang Li) Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 12:32:58 +0800 Subject: [esp-r] model DV and UFAD in esp-r Message-ID: <4b325d080805182132l5bf9c39cl849536c1627dc02f@mail.gmail.com> I am currently working on an office building project which requires comparison for DV (displacement ventilation) and UFAD (undefloor air distribution) performances. Simple put that the dfifferences between the two lie in the terminal devices and exit air velocities. We tried using stacked zones and network airflow in esp-r to model but failed to identify the differences, which many believe they should have. Has anyone had experience modelling DV and UFAD using esp-r and can share with us? Thanks in advance, Sincerely yours, XQ Li -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080519/fc2185f9/attachment.html From francesco.frontini at polimi.it Tue May 20 07:45:52 2008 From: francesco.frontini at polimi.it (francesco.frontini at polimi.it) Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 08:45:52 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Mean Radiant Temperature Message-ID: <20080520084552.y2yaryo9kcs880ks@webmail.polimi.it> Dear All, I have a question about MRT. We want to assess the impact on the operative temperature in an office if we use an internal blind with a low-emissivity coating (0,5 emissivity for indoor-facing surface) instead of 0.9 emissivity. We made two different simulation: static (with WIS program) and Dynamic (ESP-r). The results from WIS and from ESP-R for the blind surface temperature are consistent (blind temperature about 5K higher for the low-emissivity blind). However, the mean radiant temperature at a position close to the blind (0.5 m in ESP-R) is lower for the high-emissivity blind than the low-emissivity blind with the ESP-R calculation. Could you please send me the formula that ESP-r uses for the MRT calculation? Is there any approximation that would not be appropriate for low-emissivity surfaces? I model the double glazing fa?ade with the internal blind like a single construction (no air-ventilation between the glass and the blind). I set the U-value for each fa?ade construction (it is similar but not identical for the two different solutions, U=0,985+-0,005, obtained from the WIS calculation), and the g-value. What changes in the model is the emissivity of the indoor-facing surface of the blind (e=0,9 for the first case and e=0,5 for the second one!), whereas the solar-optical properties remain the same for the two blinds. In the WIS model, the emissivity of the two blind surfaces is specified separately. For both blinds, the emissivity of the outdoor-facing surface in the WIS model is 0.9. Looking forward to your answer and thanking you for your help. Any advice and help on this will be much appreciated. Francesco Frontini From Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch Tue May 20 08:22:39 2008 From: Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch (Geissler Achim) Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 09:22:39 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Mean Radiant Temperature References: <20080520084552.y2yaryo9kcs880ks@webmail.polimi.it> Message-ID: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C45EBE8@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Dear Francesco, > We want to assess the impact on the operative temperature in an office > if we use an internal blind with a low-emissivity coating (0,5 > emissivity for indoor-facing surface) instead of 0.9 emissivity. > We made two different simulation: static (with WIS program) and > Dynamic (ESP-r). > The results from WIS and from ESP-R for the blind surface temperature > are consistent (blind temperature about 5K higher for the > low-emissivity blind). That is good news. > However, the mean radiant temperature at a > position close to the blind (0.5 m in ESP-R) is lower for the > high-emissivity blind than the low-emissivity blind with the ESP-R > calculation. As the mean radiant temperature is defined by view factors and surface temperature, only, all is well, no? The low-e blind has a higher temperature, thus I would expect the mean radiant temperature close to the blind to be higher. That is what you seem to have obtained as result? Best regards, Achim From francesco.frontini at polimi.it Tue May 20 09:35:15 2008 From: francesco.frontini at polimi.it (Francesco Frontini) Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 10:35:15 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] R: Mean Radiant Temperature In-Reply-To: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C45EBE8@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Message-ID: Dear Achim Yes I have obtained a MRT, close to the blind, higher for the solution with low-e blind (that has a higer surface temperature). But for my opinion the MRT has to take into account not only the view factor and the temperature of the surface but also the emissivity. For that reason I'm also supposing that with a low emmissivity also the MRT should be low (for exemple if the view factor is the same: 43,88?x0,9>48.21?x0,5! Where the formula is (T1(?C)blind)*(emissivity(1))>(T2(?C)blind)*(emissivity(2))!!!). It's not correct? Best regards, Francesco -----Messaggio originale----- Da: Geissler Achim [mailto:Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch] Inviato: marted? 20 maggio 2008 9.23 A: francesco.frontini at polimi.it; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Oggetto: RE: [esp-r] Mean Radiant Temperature Dear Francesco, > We want to assess the impact on the operative temperature in an office > if we use an internal blind with a low-emissivity coating (0,5 > emissivity for indoor-facing surface) instead of 0.9 emissivity. > We made two different simulation: static (with WIS program) and > Dynamic (ESP-r). > The results from WIS and from ESP-R for the blind surface temperature > are consistent (blind temperature about 5K higher for the > low-emissivity blind). That is good news. > However, the mean radiant temperature at a position close to the blind > (0.5 m in ESP-R) is lower for the high-emissivity blind than the > low-emissivity blind with the ESP-R calculation. As the mean radiant temperature is defined by view factors and surface temperature, only, all is well, no? The low-e blind has a higher temperature, thus I would expect the mean radiant temperature close to the blind to be higher. That is what you seem to have obtained as result? Best regards, Achim From Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch Tue May 20 10:33:33 2008 From: Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch (Geissler Achim) Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 11:33:33 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: R: Mean Radiant Temperature References: Message-ID: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C45EC09@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Dear Francesco, the definitions I know of for mean radiant temperature do not take emissivity into account. The interesting question probably is, is the measure "MRT" useful for environments with large differences in emissivity? Of course, for radiation heat transfer, the emissivity is important (that is what I think you want to describe?). I would assume that the definition of MRT is based on the "normal" case, that all surfaces of an indoor space have an emissivity of approx. 0.9. Thus, the description of the radiative surroundings by temperature alone is sufficient. For your case, you may need to define a "new" MRT - maybe more a "mean radiant heat exchange" type of coefficient (or try PPD / PMV calculations, however, these also use standard mean radiant temperature for their calculation). Regards, Achim > -----Original Message----- > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r- > bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Francesco Frontini > Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 10:35 AM > To: Geissler Achim; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Subject: [esp-r] R: Mean Radiant Temperature > > Dear Achim > Yes I have obtained a MRT, close to the blind, higher for the solution > with > low-e blind (that has a higer surface temperature). But for my opinion the > MRT has to take into account not only the view factor and the temperature > of > the surface but also the emissivity. For that reason I'm also supposing > that > with a low emmissivity also the MRT should be low (for exemple if the view > factor is the same: 43,88?x0,9>48.21?x0,5! Where the formula is > (T1(?C)blind)*(emissivity(1))>(T2(?C)blind)*(emissivity(2))!!!). It's not > correct? > > Best regards, > Francesco > > -----Messaggio originale----- > Da: Geissler Achim [mailto:Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch] > Inviato: marted? 20 maggio 2008 9.23 > A: francesco.frontini at polimi.it; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Oggetto: RE: [esp-r] Mean Radiant Temperature > > Dear Francesco, > > > We want to assess the impact on the operative temperature in an office > > if we use an internal blind with a low-emissivity coating (0,5 > > emissivity for indoor-facing surface) instead of 0.9 emissivity. > > We made two different simulation: static (with WIS program) and > > Dynamic (ESP-r). > > > The results from WIS and from ESP-R for the blind surface temperature > > are consistent (blind temperature about 5K higher for the > > low-emissivity blind). > That is good news. > > > However, the mean radiant temperature at a position close to the blind > > (0.5 m in ESP-R) is lower for the high-emissivity blind than the > > low-emissivity blind with the ESP-R calculation. > > As the mean radiant temperature is defined by view factors and surface > temperature, only, all is well, no? The low-e blind has a higher > temperature, thus I would expect the mean radiant temperature close to the > blind to be higher. That is what you seem to have obtained as result? > > Best regards, > Achim > > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Tue May 20 11:36:21 2008 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 11:36:21 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: R: Mean Radiant Temperature References: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C45EC09@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Message-ID: There is a radiant asymmetry report as part of the comfort report and I think that will be taking account of the emissivity. There is an esp-r model which deals with a heated ceiling panel and location specific comfort for a patient in a bed which needs to be added as an exemplar model. -Jon Hand -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk on behalf of Geissler Achim Sent: Tue 5/20/2008 10:33 AM To: Francesco Frontini; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Re: R: Mean Radiant Temperature Dear Francesco, the definitions I know of for mean radiant temperature do not take emissivity into account. The interesting question probably is, is the measure "MRT" useful for environments with large differences in emissivity? Of course, for radiation heat transfer, the emissivity is important (that is what I think you want to describe?). I would assume that the definition of MRT is based on the "normal" case, that all surfaces of an indoor space have an emissivity of approx. 0.9. Thus, the description of the radiative surroundings by temperature alone is sufficient. For your case, you may need to define a "new" MRT - maybe more a "mean radiant heat exchange" type of coefficient (or try PPD / PMV calculations, however, these also use standard mean radiant temperature for their calculation). Regards, Achim > -----Original Message----- > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r- > bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Francesco Frontini > Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 10:35 AM > To: Geissler Achim; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Subject: [esp-r] R: Mean Radiant Temperature > > Dear Achim > Yes I have obtained a MRT, close to the blind, higher for the solution > with > low-e blind (that has a higer surface temperature). But for my opinion the > MRT has to take into account not only the view factor and the temperature > of > the surface but also the emissivity. For that reason I'm also supposing > that > with a low emmissivity also the MRT should be low (for exemple if the view > factor is the same: 43,88?x0,9>48.21?x0,5! Where the formula is > (T1(?C)blind)*(emissivity(1))>(T2(?C)blind)*(emissivity(2))!!!). It's not > correct? > > Best regards, > Francesco > > -----Messaggio originale----- > Da: Geissler Achim [mailto:Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch] > Inviato: marted? 20 maggio 2008 9.23 > A: francesco.frontini at polimi.it; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Oggetto: RE: [esp-r] Mean Radiant Temperature > > Dear Francesco, > > > We want to assess the impact on the operative temperature in an office > > if we use an internal blind with a low-emissivity coating (0,5 > > emissivity for indoor-facing surface) instead of 0.9 emissivity. > > We made two different simulation: static (with WIS program) and > > Dynamic (ESP-r). > > > The results from WIS and from ESP-R for the blind surface temperature > > are consistent (blind temperature about 5K higher for the > > low-emissivity blind). > That is good news. > > > However, the mean radiant temperature at a position close to the blind > > (0.5 m in ESP-R) is lower for the high-emissivity blind than the > > low-emissivity blind with the ESP-R calculation. > > As the mean radiant temperature is defined by view factors and surface > temperature, only, all is well, no? The low-e blind has a higher > temperature, thus I would expect the mean radiant temperature close to the > blind to be higher. That is what you seem to have obtained as result? > > Best regards, > Achim > > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From doreen.kalz at ise.fraunhofer.de Tue May 20 13:03:57 2008 From: doreen.kalz at ise.fraunhofer.de (Doreen Kalz) Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 14:03:57 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Zone control: import of external data files Message-ID: <4832BE2D.6020504@ise.fraunhofer.de> Dear all, I encounter the following problem with the import of an external data file within the building zone control: I want to import measured data of the operative room temperature for one building zone. Under ESP-r *version 10.8* (July 2004) I use the following *.ctl file which works well: --------------------------------------- * Control function # senses the temperature of the current zone. 0 0 0 0 # sensor data # actuates air point of the current zone 0 0 0 # actuator data 1 # No. day types 218 248 # valid Fri 6 Aug - Sun 5 Sep 1 # No. of periods in day 0 11 0.000 # ctl type, law (match temp - ideal), start @ 10. # No. of data items 5000.000 0.000 5000.000 0.000 1.000 3.000 -5.000 1.000 0.000 0.000 # Function:Zone links 1,0,0,0,0 ---------------------------------------- However, this file does not work under the latest version 11.4. The simulation aborts even before requiring the external file (e.g., *.dat). Any advice on the changes made in the latest version on how to import external data files (building zone control) is highly appreciated! Thanks and best regards, Doreen -- Dipl.-Ing. Doreen Kalz Dep. Thermal Systems and Buildings Fraunhofer-Institut f?r Solare Energiesysteme ISE Heidenhofstrasse 2, 79110 Freiburg, Germany Phone: +49(0)761/4588-5403 Fax: +49(0)761/4588-9000 doreen.kalz at ise.fraunhofer.de http://www.ise.fraunhofer.de -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080520/5a8c6603/attachment.html From georgios at esru.strath.ac.uk Tue May 20 14:16:55 2008 From: georgios at esru.strath.ac.uk (Georgios Kokogiannakis) Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 14:16:55 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Zone control: import of external data files In-Reply-To: <4832BE2D.6020504@ise.fraunhofer.de> References: <4832BE2D.6020504@ise.fraunhofer.de> Message-ID: <200805201416.55671.georgios@esru.strath.ac.uk> Dear Doreen, did you paste part of your control file text or is this the only text in it? Recent control files seem to have a tag on the top specifying the "domain" of the control and the number of control functions. For example, you file should start like this: example.ctl * Building comment for control file. This one uses external imported setpoints. 1 # No. of functions * Control function # senses the temperature of the current zone. ? ? 0 ? ?0 ? ?0 ? ?0 ?# sensor data # actuates air point of the current zone ? ? 0 ? ?0 ? ?0 ?# actuator data ...and ends with the same way as you have it. Add the first few lines (in case you do not have them) and try it again. ESP-r vers. 11.5 that came out a few weeks ago (11.4 is not the latest) allows you to import (for the basic control only) both heating and cooling control setpoints from external files. Regards, Georgios On Tuesday 20 May 2008 13:03, Doreen Kalz wrote: > Dear all, > > I encounter the following problem with the import of an external data > file within the building zone control: I want to import measured data of > the operative room temperature for one building zone. Under ESP-r > *version 10.8* (July 2004) I use the following *.ctl file which works well: > --------------------------------------- > * Control function > # senses the temperature of the current zone. > 0 0 0 0 # sensor data > # actuates air point of the current zone > 0 0 0 # actuator data > 1 # No. day types > 218 248 # valid Fri 6 Aug - Sun 5 Sep > 1 # No. of periods in day > 0 11 0.000 # ctl type, law (match temp - ideal), start @ > 10. # No. of data items > 5000.000 0.000 5000.000 0.000 1.000 3.000 -5.000 1.000 0.000 0.000 > # Function:Zone links > 1,0,0,0,0 > ---------------------------------------- > > However, this file does not work under the latest version 11.4. The > simulation aborts even before requiring the external file (e.g., *.dat). > > Any advice on the changes made in the latest version on how to import > external data files (building zone control) is highly appreciated! > > Thanks and best regards, > Doreen -- Energy Systems Research Unit (ESRU) Department of Mechanical Engineering University of Strathclyde From doreen.kalz at ise.fraunhofer.de Tue May 20 16:11:54 2008 From: doreen.kalz at ise.fraunhofer.de (Doreen Kalz) Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 17:11:54 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Zone control: import of external data files In-Reply-To: <200805201416.55671.georgios@esru.strath.ac.uk> References: <4832BE2D.6020504@ise.fraunhofer.de> <200805201416.55671.georgios@esru.strath.ac.uk> Message-ID: <4832EA3A.9040607@ise.fraunhofer.de> Dear Georgios, dear all, thank you for your answer. Actually, I just copied part of my control file text. The header is exactly the same as you posted. However, would you mind sending an example for an control file for the input of an external data file. Thank you! Doreen -- Dipl.-Ing. Doreen Kalz Dep. Thermal Systems and Buildings Fraunhofer-Institut f?r Solare Energiesysteme ISE Heidenhofstrasse 2, 79110 Freiburg, Germany Phone: +49(0)761/4588-5403 Fax: +49(0)761/4588-9000 doreen.kalz at ise.fraunhofer.de http://www.ise.fraunhofer.de Georgios Kokogiannakis wrote: > Dear Doreen, > > did you paste part of your control file text or is this the only text in it? > Recent control files seem to have a tag on the top specifying the "domain" of > the control and the number of control functions. For example, you file should > start like this: > > example.ctl > * Building > comment for control file. This one uses external imported setpoints. > 1 # No. of functions > * Control function > # senses the temperature of the current zone. > 0 0 0 0 # sensor data > # actuates air point of the current zone > 0 0 0 # actuator data > > ...and ends with the same way as you have it. Add the first few lines (in case > you do not have them) and try it again. > ESP-r vers. 11.5 that came out a few weeks ago (11.4 is not the latest) allows > you to import (for the basic control only) both heating and cooling control > setpoints from external files. > > Regards, > Georgios > > > > > On Tuesday 20 May 2008 13:03, Doreen Kalz wrote: > >> Dear all, >> >> I encounter the following problem with the import of an external data >> file within the building zone control: I want to import measured data of >> the operative room temperature for one building zone. Under ESP-r >> *version 10.8* (July 2004) I use the following *.ctl file which works well: >> --------------------------------------- >> * Control function >> # senses the temperature of the current zone. >> 0 0 0 0 # sensor data >> # actuates air point of the current zone >> 0 0 0 # actuator data >> 1 # No. day types >> 218 248 # valid Fri 6 Aug - Sun 5 Sep >> 1 # No. of periods in day >> 0 11 0.000 # ctl type, law (match temp - ideal), start @ >> 10. # No. of data items >> 5000.000 0.000 5000.000 0.000 1.000 3.000 -5.000 1.000 0.000 0.000 >> # Function:Zone links >> 1,0,0,0,0 >> ---------------------------------------- >> >> However, this file does not work under the latest version 11.4. The >> simulation aborts even before requiring the external file (e.g., *.dat). >> >> Any advice on the changes made in the latest version on how to import >> external data files (building zone control) is highly appreciated! >> >> Thanks and best regards, >> Doreen >> > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080520/017038ac/attachment.html From bish.dj at gmail.com Wed May 21 00:02:19 2008 From: bish.dj at gmail.com (Danny Bishop) Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 09:02:19 +1000 Subject: [esp-r] esp-r thermal analysis algorithms Message-ID: <48335879.14be600a.16a0.753d@mx.google.com> Hi All Can anyone tell me, or point me to a description of the general type of thermal algorithms employed by ESP-r. An example is the "admittance method" employed by Ecotect, and it has a couple of paragraphs describing it in its help file. So if there is a name for the algorithm that would be great too. Any opinions of the accuracy or benefits as compared with Ecotect and E+ much appreciated as well. Cheers Danny -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080521/cb773130/attachment.html From Soren.O.Jensen at teknologisk.dk Wed May 21 07:39:06 2008 From: Soren.O.Jensen at teknologisk.dk (=?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F8ren_=D8stergaard_Jensen?=) Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 08:39:06 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] image Message-ID: Hi everyone, I am at the moment calibrating a model of two test rooms. I am doing fine, however, for the report I would like to include an image of the model. At the moment the model is in ESP-r shown as wireframes with all edges visible. I would like to have an image where the zones are solid blocks or the walls, floor and ceiling is opaque. I believe that I once have managed to do this, but cannot remember how I did using the image control. Does anyone know how to do? regards, S?ren Danish Technological Institute Industry and Energy Refrigeration and Heat Pump Technology Gregersensvej P.O.Box 141 Phone: +45 72 20 24 88 Fax: +45 72 20 25 00 E-mail: HYPERLINK "mailto:soren.o.jensen at teknologisk.dk"soren.o.jensen at teknologisk.dk No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.16/1448 - Release Date: 16-05-2008 19:42 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080521/e4f9903a/attachment-0001.html From Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch Wed May 21 07:46:13 2008 From: Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch (Geissler Achim) Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 08:46:13 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: image References: Message-ID: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C45ECE5@sgartgum1.gart.intra> ... the easiest way to create "nice" views is export to .dxf and then use a CAD program. Achim ________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of S?ren ?stergaard Jensen Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2008 8:39 AM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] image Hi everyone, I am at the moment calibrating a model of two test rooms. I am doing fine, however, for the report I would like to include an image of the model. At the moment the model is in ESP-r shown as wireframes with all edges visible. I would like to have an image where the zones are solid blocks or the walls, floor and ceiling is opaque. I believe that I once have managed to do this, but cannot remember how I did using the image control. Does anyone know how to do? regards, S?ren Danish Technological Institute Industry and Energy Refrigeration and Heat Pump Technology Gregersensvej P.O.Box 141 Phone: +45 72 20 24 88 Fax: +45 72 20 25 00 E-mail: soren.o.jensen at teknologisk.dk No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.16/1448 - Release Date: 16-05-2008 19:42 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080521/6e86e42f/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Wed May 21 09:34:19 2008 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 09:34:19 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: image of model options References: Message-ID: Other options for views of the model: a) generate a hidden line view of your model which will start up the 'viewer' module and capture the image b) export your model to radiance and generate views inside or outside or even an animation of the sun patterns over a day. -Jon Hand -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk on behalf of S?ren ?stergaard Jensen Sent: Wed 5/21/2008 7:39 AM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] image Hi everyone, I am at the moment calibrating a model of two test rooms. I am doing fine, however, for the report I would like to include an image of the model. At the moment the model is in ESP-r shown as wireframes with all edges visible. I would like to have an image where the zones are solid blocks or the walls, floor and ceiling is opaque. I believe that I once have managed to do this, but cannot remember how I did using the image control. Does anyone know how to do? regards, S?ren Danish Technological Institute Industry and Energy Refrigeration and Heat Pump Technology Gregersensvej P.O.Box 141 Phone: +45 72 20 24 88 Fax: +45 72 20 25 00 E-mail: HYPERLINK "mailto:soren.o.jensen at teknologisk.dk"soren.o.jensen at teknologisk.dk No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.16/1448 - Release Date: 16-05-2008 19:42 From georgios at esru.strath.ac.uk Wed May 21 10:39:08 2008 From: georgios at esru.strath.ac.uk (Georgios Kokogiannakis) Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 10:39:08 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Zone control: import of external data files In-Reply-To: <4832EA3A.9040607@ise.fraunhofer.de> References: <4832BE2D.6020504@ise.fraunhofer.de> <200805201416.55671.georgios@esru.strath.ac.uk> <4832EA3A.9040607@ise.fraunhofer.de> Message-ID: <200805211039.09385.georgios@esru.strath.ac.uk> Dear Doreen, I think that you may have to replace these two lines in your control file: ? ? ?10. ?# No. of data items ? 5000.000 0.000 5000.000 0.000 1.000 3.000 -5.000 1.000 0.000 0.000 with these two: 12. # No. of data items 5000.000 0.000 5000.000 0.000 1.000 3.000 -5.000 1.000 0.000 0.000 1.000 0.000 using 12 instead of 10 data items worked for me. I am not familiar with the differences between all these control data items for this control law. I am sure it could be better re-structured (..I doubt though that you will find many volunteers for this). Hope this will work. Regards, Georgios On Tuesday 20 May 2008 16:11, Doreen Kalz wrote: > Dear Georgios, dear all, > > thank you for your answer. > Actually, I just copied part of my control file text. The header is > exactly the same as you posted. > However, would you mind sending an example for an control file for the > input of an external data file. > > Thank you! > > Doreen From francesco.frontini at polimi.it Thu May 22 13:16:28 2008 From: francesco.frontini at polimi.it (Francesco Frontini) Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 14:16:28 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] R: Mean Radiant Temperature; esp-r Digest, Vol 22, Issue 15 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Jon, Ok, but where I can found the fomula used by ESP-r for the MRT calculation? Best regards Francesco -----Messaggio originale----- Da: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] Per conto di esp-r-request at lists.strath.ac.uk Inviato: marted? 20 maggio 2008 13.00 A: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Oggetto: esp-r Digest, Vol 22, Issue 15 Send esp-r mailing list submissions to esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to esp-r-request at lists.strath.ac.uk You can reach the person managing the list at esp-r-owner at lists.strath.ac.uk When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of esp-r digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Mean Radiant Temperature (francesco.frontini at polimi.it) 2. Re: Mean Radiant Temperature (Geissler Achim) 3. R: Mean Radiant Temperature (Francesco Frontini) 4. Re: R: Mean Radiant Temperature (Geissler Achim) 5. Re: R: Mean Radiant Temperature (Jon Hand) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 08:45:52 +0200 From: francesco.frontini at polimi.it Subject: [esp-r] Mean Radiant Temperature To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Message-ID: <20080520084552.y2yaryo9kcs880ks at webmail.polimi.it> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed" Dear All, I have a question about MRT. We want to assess the impact on the operative temperature in an office if we use an internal blind with a low-emissivity coating (0,5 emissivity for indoor-facing surface) instead of 0.9 emissivity. We made two different simulation: static (with WIS program) and Dynamic (ESP-r). The results from WIS and from ESP-R for the blind surface temperature are consistent (blind temperature about 5K higher for the low-emissivity blind). However, the mean radiant temperature at a position close to the blind (0.5 m in ESP-R) is lower for the high-emissivity blind than the low-emissivity blind with the ESP-R calculation. Could you please send me the formula that ESP-r uses for the MRT calculation? Is there any approximation that would not be appropriate for low-emissivity surfaces? I model the double glazing fa?ade with the internal blind like a single construction (no air-ventilation between the glass and the blind). I set the U-value for each fa?ade construction (it is similar but not identical for the two different solutions, U=0,985+-0,005, obtained from the WIS calculation), and the g-value. What changes in the model is the emissivity of the indoor-facing surface of the blind (e=0,9 for the first case and e=0,5 for the second one!), whereas the solar-optical properties remain the same for the two blinds. In the WIS model, the emissivity of the two blind surfaces is specified separately. For both blinds, the emissivity of the outdoor-facing surface in the WIS model is 0.9. Looking forward to your answer and thanking you for your help. Any advice and help on this will be much appreciated. Francesco Frontini ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 09:22:39 +0200 From: "Geissler Achim" Subject: [esp-r] Re: Mean Radiant Temperature To: , Message-ID: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C45EBE8 at sgartgum1.gart.intra> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Dear Francesco, > We want to assess the impact on the operative temperature in an office > if we use an internal blind with a low-emissivity coating (0,5 > emissivity for indoor-facing surface) instead of 0.9 emissivity. > We made two different simulation: static (with WIS program) and > Dynamic (ESP-r). > The results from WIS and from ESP-R for the blind surface temperature > are consistent (blind temperature about 5K higher for the > low-emissivity blind). That is good news. > However, the mean radiant temperature at a position close to the blind > (0.5 m in ESP-R) is lower for the high-emissivity blind than the > low-emissivity blind with the ESP-R calculation. As the mean radiant temperature is defined by view factors and surface temperature, only, all is well, no? The low-e blind has a higher temperature, thus I would expect the mean radiant temperature close to the blind to be higher. That is what you seem to have obtained as result? Best regards, Achim ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 10:35:15 +0200 From: "Francesco Frontini" Subject: [esp-r] R: Mean Radiant Temperature To: "'Geissler Achim'" , Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Dear Achim Yes I have obtained a MRT, close to the blind, higher for the solution with low-e blind (that has a higer surface temperature). But for my opinion the MRT has to take into account not only the view factor and the temperature of the surface but also the emissivity. For that reason I'm also supposing that with a low emmissivity also the MRT should be low (for exemple if the view factor is the same: 43,88?x0,9>48.21?x0,5! Where the formula is (T1(?C)blind)*(emissivity(1))>(T2(?C)blind)*(emissivity(2))!!!). It's not correct? Best regards, Francesco -----Messaggio originale----- Da: Geissler Achim [mailto:Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch] Inviato: marted? 20 maggio 2008 9.23 A: francesco.frontini at polimi.it; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Oggetto: RE: [esp-r] Mean Radiant Temperature Dear Francesco, > We want to assess the impact on the operative temperature in an office > if we use an internal blind with a low-emissivity coating (0,5 > emissivity for indoor-facing surface) instead of 0.9 emissivity. > We made two different simulation: static (with WIS program) and > Dynamic (ESP-r). > The results from WIS and from ESP-R for the blind surface temperature > are consistent (blind temperature about 5K higher for the > low-emissivity blind). That is good news. > However, the mean radiant temperature at a position close to the blind > (0.5 m in ESP-R) is lower for the high-emissivity blind than the > low-emissivity blind with the ESP-R calculation. As the mean radiant temperature is defined by view factors and surface temperature, only, all is well, no? The low-e blind has a higher temperature, thus I would expect the mean radiant temperature close to the blind to be higher. That is what you seem to have obtained as result? Best regards, Achim ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 11:33:33 +0200 From: "Geissler Achim" Subject: [esp-r] Re: R: Mean Radiant Temperature To: "Francesco Frontini" , Message-ID: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C45EC09 at sgartgum1.gart.intra> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Dear Francesco, the definitions I know of for mean radiant temperature do not take emissivity into account. The interesting question probably is, is the measure "MRT" useful for environments with large differences in emissivity? Of course, for radiation heat transfer, the emissivity is important (that is what I think you want to describe?). I would assume that the definition of MRT is based on the "normal" case, that all surfaces of an indoor space have an emissivity of approx. 0.9. Thus, the description of the radiative surroundings by temperature alone is sufficient. For your case, you may need to define a "new" MRT - maybe more a "mean radiant heat exchange" type of coefficient (or try PPD / PMV calculations, however, these also use standard mean radiant temperature for their calculation). Regards, Achim > -----Original Message----- > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r- > bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Francesco Frontini > Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 10:35 AM > To: Geissler Achim; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Subject: [esp-r] R: Mean Radiant Temperature > > Dear Achim > Yes I have obtained a MRT, close to the blind, higher for the solution > with low-e blind (that has a higer surface temperature). But for my > opinion the MRT has to take into account not only the view factor and > the temperature of the surface but also the emissivity. For that > reason I'm also supposing that with a low emmissivity also the MRT > should be low (for exemple if the view factor is the same: > 43,88?x0,9>48.21?x0,5! Where the formula is > (T1(?C)blind)*(emissivity(1))>(T2(?C)blind)*(emissivity(2))!!!). It's > not correct? > > Best regards, > Francesco > > -----Messaggio originale----- > Da: Geissler Achim [mailto:Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch] > Inviato: marted? 20 maggio 2008 9.23 > A: francesco.frontini at polimi.it; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Oggetto: RE: [esp-r] Mean Radiant Temperature > > Dear Francesco, > > > We want to assess the impact on the operative temperature in an > > office if we use an internal blind with a low-emissivity coating > > (0,5 emissivity for indoor-facing surface) instead of 0.9 emissivity. > > We made two different simulation: static (with WIS program) and > > Dynamic (ESP-r). > > > The results from WIS and from ESP-R for the blind surface > > temperature are consistent (blind temperature about 5K higher for > > the low-emissivity blind). > That is good news. > > > However, the mean radiant temperature at a position close to the > > blind > > (0.5 m in ESP-R) is lower for the high-emissivity blind than the > > low-emissivity blind with the ESP-R calculation. > > As the mean radiant temperature is defined by view factors and surface > temperature, only, all is well, no? The low-e blind has a higher > temperature, thus I would expect the mean radiant temperature close to > the blind to be higher. That is what you seem to have obtained as result? > > Best regards, > Achim > > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 11:36:21 +0100 From: Jon Hand Subject: [esp-r] Re: R: Mean Radiant Temperature To: "Geissler Achim" , "Francesco Frontini" , Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" There is a radiant asymmetry report as part of the comfort report and I think that will be taking account of the emissivity. There is an esp-r model which deals with a heated ceiling panel and location specific comfort for a patient in a bed which needs to be added as an exemplar model. -Jon Hand -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk on behalf of Geissler Achim Sent: Tue 5/20/2008 10:33 AM To: Francesco Frontini; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Re: R: Mean Radiant Temperature Dear Francesco, the definitions I know of for mean radiant temperature do not take emissivity into account. The interesting question probably is, is the measure "MRT" useful for environments with large differences in emissivity? Of course, for radiation heat transfer, the emissivity is important (that is what I think you want to describe?). I would assume that the definition of MRT is based on the "normal" case, that all surfaces of an indoor space have an emissivity of approx. 0.9. Thus, the description of the radiative surroundings by temperature alone is sufficient. For your case, you may need to define a "new" MRT - maybe more a "mean radiant heat exchange" type of coefficient (or try PPD / PMV calculations, however, these also use standard mean radiant temperature for their calculation). Regards, Achim > -----Original Message----- > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r- > bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Francesco Frontini > Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 10:35 AM > To: Geissler Achim; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Subject: [esp-r] R: Mean Radiant Temperature > > Dear Achim > Yes I have obtained a MRT, close to the blind, higher for the solution > with low-e blind (that has a higer surface temperature). But for my > opinion the MRT has to take into account not only the view factor and > the temperature of the surface but also the emissivity. For that > reason I'm also supposing that with a low emmissivity also the MRT > should be low (for exemple if the view factor is the same: > 43,88?x0,9>48.21?x0,5! Where the formula is > (T1(?C)blind)*(emissivity(1))>(T2(?C)blind)*(emissivity(2))!!!). It's > not correct? > > Best regards, > Francesco > > -----Messaggio originale----- > Da: Geissler Achim [mailto:Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch] > Inviato: marted? 20 maggio 2008 9.23 > A: francesco.frontini at polimi.it; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Oggetto: RE: [esp-r] Mean Radiant Temperature > > Dear Francesco, > > > We want to assess the impact on the operative temperature in an > > office if we use an internal blind with a low-emissivity coating > > (0,5 emissivity for indoor-facing surface) instead of 0.9 emissivity. > > We made two different simulation: static (with WIS program) and > > Dynamic (ESP-r). > > > The results from WIS and from ESP-R for the blind surface > > temperature are consistent (blind temperature about 5K higher for > > the low-emissivity blind). > That is good news. > > > However, the mean radiant temperature at a position close to the > > blind > > (0.5 m in ESP-R) is lower for the high-emissivity blind than the > > low-emissivity blind with the ESP-R calculation. > > As the mean radiant temperature is defined by view factors and surface > temperature, only, all is well, no? The low-e blind has a higher > temperature, thus I would expect the mean radiant temperature close to > the blind to be higher. That is what you seem to have obtained as result? > > Best regards, > Achim > > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r End of esp-r Digest, Vol 22, Issue 15 ************************************* From michael.killeen at cylon.com Thu May 22 15:58:00 2008 From: michael.killeen at cylon.com (Michael Killeen) Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 15:58:00 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Users in Dublin Message-ID: <5777b71a.1c8bc1c.a895054.5d03@cylon.com> Hello All I am looking into using ESP-r. Is there anyone in Dublin, Ireland that uses this software an would/could discuss experience/possibilities with myself? Thank you Regards Michael michael.killeen at cylon.com CYLON - smart energy control
Cylon Controls Limited, Clonshaugh Business & Technology Park, Clonshaugh, Dublin 17, Ireland. Registered in Ireland No. 110195 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080522/91ac2243/attachment.html From paul at esru.strath.ac.uk Thu May 22 20:22:39 2008 From: paul at esru.strath.ac.uk (Paul Strachan) Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 20:22:39 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Users in Dublin In-Reply-To: <5777b71a.1c8bc1c.a895054.5d03@cylon.com> References: <5777b71a.1c8bc1c.a895054.5d03@cylon.com> Message-ID: <4835C7FF.6070002@esru.strath.ac.uk> Hi Michael, Try Kirk Shanks at Dublin Institute of Technology (kirk.shanks at dit.ie) - he uses ESP-r but I don't think he's on the list. Regards Paul Michael Killeen wrote: > Hello All > > I am looking into using ESP-r. > Is there anyone in Dublin, Ireland that uses this software an > would/could discuss experience/possibilities with myself? > > Thank you > Regards > Michael > > michael.killeen at cylon.com > > > *CYLON - smart energy control* > > Cylon Controls Limited, Clonshaugh Business & Technology Park, > Clonshaugh, Dublin 17, Ireland. Registered in Ireland No. 110195 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080522/3bbf713a/attachment.html From paul at esru.strath.ac.uk Thu May 22 23:03:49 2008 From: paul at esru.strath.ac.uk (Paul Strachan) Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 23:03:49 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: R: Mean Radiant Temperature; esp-r Digest, Vol 22, Issue 15 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4835EDC5.8060203@esru.strath.ac.uk> Dear Francesco, As far as I can ascertain from the ESP-r code, the MRT calculation does not take account of emissivity. The default MRT is simply the area weighted surface temperatures (subroutine MOMNRD in temps.F in esrures). It is possible to specify MRT calculations at specific points in the zone (using sensor "cubes"), in which case the calculation includes viewfactors and 4th power radiant exchange (subroutine SENMRT in temps.F in esrures) - but again emissivity is not included. Although rather out-of-date in terms of the user interface, the following publication on the ESRU website gives the basis of the method for user-defined positions for MRT sensors: http://www.esru.strath.ac.uk/Documents/ESPmrt.pdf Regards Paul Francesco Frontini wrote: > Dear Jon, > Ok, > but where I can found the fomula used by ESP-r for the MRT calculation? > Best regards > Francesco > > -----Messaggio originale----- > Da: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk > [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] Per conto di > esp-r-request at lists.strath.ac.uk > Inviato: marted? 20 maggio 2008 13.00 > A: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Oggetto: esp-r Digest, Vol 22, Issue 15 > > Send esp-r mailing list submissions to > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > esp-r-request at lists.strath.ac.uk > > You can reach the person managing the list at > esp-r-owner at lists.strath.ac.uk > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than > "Re: Contents of esp-r digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Mean Radiant Temperature (francesco.frontini at polimi.it) > 2. Re: Mean Radiant Temperature (Geissler Achim) > 3. R: Mean Radiant Temperature (Francesco Frontini) > 4. Re: R: Mean Radiant Temperature (Geissler Achim) > 5. Re: R: Mean Radiant Temperature (Jon Hand) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 08:45:52 +0200 > From: francesco.frontini at polimi.it > Subject: [esp-r] Mean Radiant Temperature > To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Message-ID: <20080520084552.y2yaryo9kcs880ks at webmail.polimi.it> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes"; > format="flowed" > > Dear All, > I have a question about MRT. > > We want to assess the impact on the operative temperature in an office if we > use an internal blind with a low-emissivity coating (0,5 emissivity for > indoor-facing surface) instead of 0.9 emissivity. > We made two different simulation: static (with WIS program) and Dynamic > (ESP-r). > > The results from WIS and from ESP-R for the blind surface temperature are > consistent (blind temperature about 5K higher for the low-emissivity blind). > However, the mean radiant temperature at a position close to the blind (0.5 > m in ESP-R) is lower for the high-emissivity blind than the low-emissivity > blind with the ESP-R calculation. > Could you please send me the formula that ESP-r uses for the MRT > calculation? Is there any approximation that would not be appropriate for > low-emissivity surfaces? > > I model the double glazing fa?ade with the internal blind like a single > construction (no air-ventilation between the glass and the blind). I set the > U-value for each fa?ade construction (it is similar but not identical for > the two different solutions, U=0,985+-0,005, obtained from the WIS > calculation), and the g-value. What changes in the model is the emissivity > of the indoor-facing surface of the blind > (e=0,9 for the first case and e=0,5 for the second one!), whereas the > solar-optical properties remain the same for the two blinds. In the WIS > model, the emissivity of the two blind surfaces is specified separately. > For both blinds, the emissivity of the outdoor-facing surface in the WIS > model is 0.9. > > > Looking forward to your answer and thanking you for your help. > Any advice and help on this will be much appreciated. > > Francesco Frontini > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 09:22:39 +0200 > From: "Geissler Achim" > Subject: [esp-r] Re: Mean Radiant Temperature > To: , > Message-ID: > <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C45EBE8 at sgartgum1.gart.intra> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Dear Francesco, > > >> We want to assess the impact on the operative temperature in an office >> if we use an internal blind with a low-emissivity coating (0,5 >> emissivity for indoor-facing surface) instead of 0.9 emissivity. >> We made two different simulation: static (with WIS program) and >> Dynamic (ESP-r). >> > > >> The results from WIS and from ESP-R for the blind surface temperature >> are consistent (blind temperature about 5K higher for the >> low-emissivity blind). >> > That is good news. > > >> However, the mean radiant temperature at a position close to the blind >> (0.5 m in ESP-R) is lower for the high-emissivity blind than the >> low-emissivity blind with the ESP-R calculation. >> > > As the mean radiant temperature is defined by view factors and surface > temperature, only, all is well, no? The low-e blind has a higher > temperature, thus I would expect the mean radiant temperature close to the > blind to be higher. That is what you seem to have obtained as result? > > Best regards, > Achim > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 10:35:15 +0200 > From: "Francesco Frontini" > Subject: [esp-r] R: Mean Radiant Temperature > To: "'Geissler Achim'" , > > Message-ID: > > AAAAq+fYsqTr4E+5QjbiDeTAbQEAAAAA at polimi.it> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Dear Achim > Yes I have obtained a MRT, close to the blind, higher for the solution with > low-e blind (that has a higer surface temperature). But for my opinion the > MRT has to take into account not only the view factor and the temperature of > the surface but also the emissivity. For that reason I'm also supposing that > with a low emmissivity also the MRT should be low (for exemple if the view > factor is the same: 43,88?x0,9>48.21?x0,5! Where the formula is > (T1(?C)blind)*(emissivity(1))>(T2(?C)blind)*(emissivity(2))!!!). It's not > correct? > > Best regards, > Francesco > > -----Messaggio originale----- > Da: Geissler Achim [mailto:Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch] > Inviato: marted? 20 maggio 2008 9.23 > A: francesco.frontini at polimi.it; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Oggetto: RE: [esp-r] Mean Radiant Temperature > > Dear Francesco, > > >> We want to assess the impact on the operative temperature in an office >> if we use an internal blind with a low-emissivity coating (0,5 >> emissivity for indoor-facing surface) instead of 0.9 emissivity. >> We made two different simulation: static (with WIS program) and >> Dynamic (ESP-r). >> > > >> The results from WIS and from ESP-R for the blind surface temperature >> are consistent (blind temperature about 5K higher for the >> low-emissivity blind). >> > That is good news. > > >> However, the mean radiant temperature at a position close to the blind >> (0.5 m in ESP-R) is lower for the high-emissivity blind than the >> low-emissivity blind with the ESP-R calculation. >> > > As the mean radiant temperature is defined by view factors and surface > temperature, only, all is well, no? The low-e blind has a higher > temperature, thus I would expect the mean radiant temperature close to the > blind to be higher. That is what you seem to have obtained as result? > > Best regards, > Achim > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 11:33:33 +0200 > From: "Geissler Achim" > Subject: [esp-r] Re: R: Mean Radiant Temperature > To: "Francesco Frontini" , > > Message-ID: > <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C45EC09 at sgartgum1.gart.intra> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Dear Francesco, > the definitions I know of for mean radiant temperature do not take > emissivity into account. The interesting question probably is, is the > measure "MRT" useful for environments with large differences in emissivity? > Of course, for radiation heat transfer, the emissivity is important (that is > what I think you want to describe?). > I would assume that the definition of MRT is based on the "normal" case, > that all surfaces of an indoor space have an emissivity of approx. 0.9. > Thus, the description of the radiative surroundings by temperature alone is > sufficient. > For your case, you may need to define a "new" MRT - maybe more a "mean > radiant heat exchange" type of coefficient (or try PPD / PMV calculations, > however, these also use standard mean radiant temperature for their > calculation). > Regards, > Achim > > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r- >> bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Francesco Frontini >> Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 10:35 AM >> To: Geissler Achim; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk >> Subject: [esp-r] R: Mean Radiant Temperature >> >> Dear Achim >> Yes I have obtained a MRT, close to the blind, higher for the solution >> with low-e blind (that has a higer surface temperature). But for my >> opinion the MRT has to take into account not only the view factor and >> the temperature of the surface but also the emissivity. For that >> reason I'm also supposing that with a low emmissivity also the MRT >> should be low (for exemple if the view factor is the same: >> 43,88?x0,9>48.21?x0,5! Where the formula is >> (T1(?C)blind)*(emissivity(1))>(T2(?C)blind)*(emissivity(2))!!!). It's >> not correct? >> >> Best regards, >> Francesco >> >> -----Messaggio originale----- >> Da: Geissler Achim [mailto:Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch] >> Inviato: marted? 20 maggio 2008 9.23 >> A: francesco.frontini at polimi.it; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk >> Oggetto: RE: [esp-r] Mean Radiant Temperature >> >> Dear Francesco, >> >> >>> We want to assess the impact on the operative temperature in an >>> office if we use an internal blind with a low-emissivity coating >>> (0,5 emissivity for indoor-facing surface) instead of 0.9 emissivity. >>> We made two different simulation: static (with WIS program) and >>> Dynamic (ESP-r). >>> >>> The results from WIS and from ESP-R for the blind surface >>> temperature are consistent (blind temperature about 5K higher for >>> the low-emissivity blind). >>> >> That is good news. >> >> >>> However, the mean radiant temperature at a position close to the >>> blind >>> (0.5 m in ESP-R) is lower for the high-emissivity blind than the >>> low-emissivity blind with the ESP-R calculation. >>> >> As the mean radiant temperature is defined by view factors and surface >> temperature, only, all is well, no? The low-e blind has a higher >> temperature, thus I would expect the mean radiant temperature close to >> the blind to be higher. That is what you seem to have obtained as result? >> >> Best regards, >> Achim >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> esp-r mailing list >> esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk >> http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r >> > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 11:36:21 +0100 > From: Jon Hand > Subject: [esp-r] Re: R: Mean Radiant Temperature > To: "Geissler Achim" , "Francesco > Frontini" , > > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > There is a radiant asymmetry report as part of the comfort report and I > think that will be taking account of the emissivity. > > There is an esp-r model which deals with a heated ceiling panel and location > specific comfort for a patient in a bed which needs to be added as an > exemplar model. > > -Jon Hand > > > -----Original Message----- > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk on behalf of Geissler Achim > Sent: Tue 5/20/2008 10:33 AM > To: Francesco Frontini; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Subject: [esp-r] Re: R: Mean Radiant Temperature > > Dear Francesco, > the definitions I know of for mean radiant temperature do not take > emissivity into account. The interesting question probably is, is the > measure "MRT" useful for environments with large differences in emissivity? > Of course, for radiation heat transfer, the emissivity is important (that is > what I think you want to describe?). > I would assume that the definition of MRT is based on the "normal" case, > that all surfaces of an indoor space have an emissivity of approx. 0.9. > Thus, the description of the radiative surroundings by temperature alone is > sufficient. > For your case, you may need to define a "new" MRT - maybe more a "mean > radiant heat exchange" type of coefficient (or try PPD / PMV calculations, > however, these also use standard mean radiant temperature for their > calculation). > Regards, > Achim > > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r- >> bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Francesco Frontini >> Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 10:35 AM >> To: Geissler Achim; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk >> Subject: [esp-r] R: Mean Radiant Temperature >> >> Dear Achim >> Yes I have obtained a MRT, close to the blind, higher for the solution >> with low-e blind (that has a higer surface temperature). But for my >> opinion the MRT has to take into account not only the view factor and >> the temperature of the surface but also the emissivity. For that >> reason I'm also supposing that with a low emmissivity also the MRT >> should be low (for exemple if the view factor is the same: >> 43,88?x0,9>48.21?x0,5! Where the formula is >> (T1(?C)blind)*(emissivity(1))>(T2(?C)blind)*(emissivity(2))!!!). It's >> not correct? >> >> Best regards, >> Francesco >> >> -----Messaggio originale----- >> Da: Geissler Achim [mailto:Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch] >> Inviato: marted? 20 maggio 2008 9.23 >> A: francesco.frontini at polimi.it; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk >> Oggetto: RE: [esp-r] Mean Radiant Temperature >> >> Dear Francesco, >> >> >>> We want to assess the impact on the operative temperature in an >>> office if we use an internal blind with a low-emissivity coating >>> (0,5 emissivity for indoor-facing surface) instead of 0.9 emissivity. >>> We made two different simulation: static (with WIS program) and >>> Dynamic (ESP-r). >>> >>> The results from WIS and from ESP-R for the blind surface >>> temperature are consistent (blind temperature about 5K higher for >>> the low-emissivity blind). >>> >> That is good news. >> >> >>> However, the mean radiant temperature at a position close to the >>> blind >>> (0.5 m in ESP-R) is lower for the high-emissivity blind than the >>> low-emissivity blind with the ESP-R calculation. >>> >> As the mean radiant temperature is defined by view factors and surface >> temperature, only, all is well, no? The low-e blind has a higher >> temperature, thus I would expect the mean radiant temperature close to >> the blind to be higher. That is what you seem to have obtained as result? >> >> Best regards, >> Achim >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> esp-r mailing list >> esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk >> http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080522/56aafbbf/attachment-0001.html From David.Tang at owenscorning.com Fri May 23 03:22:09 2008 From: David.Tang at owenscorning.com (Tang, David) Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 10:22:09 +0800 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Users in Dublin References: <5777b71a.1c8bc1c.a895054.5d03@cylon.com> <4835C7FF.6070002@esru.strath.ac.uk> Message-ID: <8E334BEBBF31D54B9989B206FB4A6D0903E36CBB@shos6101.ap.corp.owenscorning.com> also try Ken Beattie at DIT who used to visit ESRU quite often. Regards, David Tang Chief Engineer, Energy Solutions Owens Corning T: +86 21 6101 9587; F: +86 21 6101 9588; m: +86 13817249419 _____ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Paul Strachan Sent: Friday, May 23, 2008 3:23 AM To: michael.killeen at cylon.com Cc: Kirk Shanks; 'esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk' Subject: [esp-r] Re: Users in Dublin Hi Michael, Try Kirk Shanks at Dublin Institute of Technology (kirk.shanks at dit.ie) - he uses ESP-r but I don't think he's on the list. Regards Paul Michael Killeen wrote: Hello All I am looking into using ESP-r. Is there anyone in Dublin, Ireland that uses this software an would/could discuss experience/possibilities with myself? Thank you Regards Michael michael.killeen at cylon.com CYLON - smart energy control Cylon Controls Limited, Clonshaugh Business & Technology Park, Clonshaugh, Dublin 17, Ireland. Registered in Ireland No. 110195 _____ _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r The information contained in this communication and its attachment(s) is intended only for the use of the individual to whom it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential, or exempt from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify postmaster at owenscorning.com and delete the communication without retaining any copies. Thank you. Translations available: http://www.owenscorning.com/emailfooter.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080523/014ba572/attachment.html From zhongqiu at cityu.edu.hk Fri May 23 09:52:27 2008 From: zhongqiu at cityu.edu.hk (QIU) Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 16:52:27 +0800 Subject: [esp-r] Rule of the natural flow direction? Message-ID: <0K1B00KKHCNF8QB0@smtp04.cityu.edu.hk> Dear all, I'm simulating the SOLVENT window. What about the rule to define the natural flow direction? I mean when natural flow direction is "+" and when "-"? Thank you. Regards, Qiu From jeremy at esru.strath.ac.uk Fri May 23 10:57:58 2008 From: jeremy at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jeremy Cockroft) Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 10:57:58 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Mean Radiant Temperature In-Reply-To: <4835EDC5.8060203@esru.strath.ac.uk> References: <4835EDC5.8060203@esru.strath.ac.uk> Message-ID: <221C1AC3541E7D4FB09EB58B16FFEF4A02501348@BE-SCAM2.ds.strath.ac.uk> The mrt calculation assumes all surfaces are black (emissivity 1.0), as is the sensor cube. It is a reasonable approximation for most common energy analysis problems. Where significant differences in surface emissivities exist in a space, a first principles approach would correctly include emissivities in the calculation of mrt. It seems we do not have this capability, so far. Jeremy Cockroft, ESRU ________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Paul Strachan Sent: 22 May 2008 23:04 To: Francesco Frontini Cc: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Re: R: Mean Radiant Temperature; esp-r Digest, Vol 22, Issue 15 Dear Francesco, As far as I can ascertain from the ESP-r code, the MRT calculation does not take account of emissivity. The default MRT is simply the area weighted surface temperatures (subroutine MOMNRD in temps.F in esrures). It is possible to specify MRT calculations at specific points in the zone (using sensor "cubes"), in which case the calculation includes viewfactors and 4th power radiant exchange (subroutine SENMRT in temps.F in esrures) - but again emissivity is not included. Although rather out-of-date in terms of the user interface, the following publication on the ESRU website gives the basis of the method for user-defined positions for MRT sensors: http://www.esru.strath.ac.uk/Documents/ESPmrt.pdf Regards Paul Francesco Frontini wrote: Dear Jon, Ok, but where I can found the fomula used by ESP-r for the MRT calculation? Best regards Francesco -----Messaggio originale----- Da: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] Per conto di esp-r-request at lists.strath.ac.uk Inviato: marted? 20 maggio 2008 13.00 A: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Oggetto: esp-r Digest, Vol 22, Issue 15 Send esp-r mailing list submissions to esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to esp-r-request at lists.strath.ac.uk You can reach the person managing the list at esp-r-owner at lists.strath.ac.uk When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of esp-r digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Mean Radiant Temperature (francesco.frontini at polimi.it) 2. Re: Mean Radiant Temperature (Geissler Achim) 3. R: Mean Radiant Temperature (Francesco Frontini) 4. Re: R: Mean Radiant Temperature (Geissler Achim) 5. Re: R: Mean Radiant Temperature (Jon Hand) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 08:45:52 +0200 From: francesco.frontini at polimi.it Subject: [esp-r] Mean Radiant Temperature To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Message-ID: <20080520084552.y2yaryo9kcs880ks at webmail.polimi.it> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed" Dear All, I have a question about MRT. We want to assess the impact on the operative temperature in an office if we use an internal blind with a low-emissivity coating (0,5 emissivity for indoor-facing surface) instead of 0.9 emissivity. We made two different simulation: static (with WIS program) and Dynamic (ESP-r). The results from WIS and from ESP-R for the blind surface temperature are consistent (blind temperature about 5K higher for the low-emissivity blind). However, the mean radiant temperature at a position close to the blind (0.5 m in ESP-R) is lower for the high-emissivity blind than the low-emissivity blind with the ESP-R calculation. Could you please send me the formula that ESP-r uses for the MRT calculation? Is there any approximation that would not be appropriate for low-emissivity surfaces? I model the double glazing fa?ade with the internal blind like a single construction (no air-ventilation between the glass and the blind). I set the U-value for each fa?ade construction (it is similar but not identical for the two different solutions, U=0,985+-0,005, obtained from the WIS calculation), and the g-value. What changes in the model is the emissivity of the indoor-facing surface of the blind (e=0,9 for the first case and e=0,5 for the second one!), whereas the solar-optical properties remain the same for the two blinds. In the WIS model, the emissivity of the two blind surfaces is specified separately. For both blinds, the emissivity of the outdoor-facing surface in the WIS model is 0.9. Looking forward to your answer and thanking you for your help. Any advice and help on this will be much appreciated. Francesco Frontini ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 09:22:39 +0200 From: "Geissler Achim" Subject: [esp-r] Re: Mean Radiant Temperature To: , Message-ID: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C45EBE8 at sgartgum1.gart.intra> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Dear Francesco, We want to assess the impact on the operative temperature in an office if we use an internal blind with a low-emissivity coating (0,5 emissivity for indoor-facing surface) instead of 0.9 emissivity. We made two different simulation: static (with WIS program) and Dynamic (ESP-r). The results from WIS and from ESP-R for the blind surface temperature are consistent (blind temperature about 5K higher for the low-emissivity blind). That is good news. However, the mean radiant temperature at a position close to the blind (0.5 m in ESP-R) is lower for the high-emissivity blind than the low-emissivity blind with the ESP-R calculation. As the mean radiant temperature is defined by view factors and surface temperature, only, all is well, no? The low-e blind has a higher temperature, thus I would expect the mean radiant temperature close to the blind to be higher. That is what you seem to have obtained as result? Best regards, Achim ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 10:35:15 +0200 From: "Francesco Frontini" Subject: [esp-r] R: Mean Radiant Temperature To: "'Geissler Achim'" , Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Dear Achim Yes I have obtained a MRT, close to the blind, higher for the solution with low-e blind (that has a higer surface temperature). But for my opinion the MRT has to take into account not only the view factor and the temperature of the surface but also the emissivity. For that reason I'm also supposing that with a low emmissivity also the MRT should be low (for exemple if the view factor is the same: 43,88?x0,9>48.21?x0,5! Where the formula is (T1(?C)blind)*(emissivity(1))>(T2(?C)blind)*(emissivity(2))!!!). It's not correct? Best regards, Francesco -----Messaggio originale----- Da: Geissler Achim [mailto:Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch] Inviato: marted? 20 maggio 2008 9.23 A: francesco.frontini at polimi.it; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Oggetto: RE: [esp-r] Mean Radiant Temperature Dear Francesco, We want to assess the impact on the operative temperature in an office if we use an internal blind with a low-emissivity coating (0,5 emissivity for indoor-facing surface) instead of 0.9 emissivity. We made two different simulation: static (with WIS program) and Dynamic (ESP-r). The results from WIS and from ESP-R for the blind surface temperature are consistent (blind temperature about 5K higher for the low-emissivity blind). That is good news. However, the mean radiant temperature at a position close to the blind (0.5 m in ESP-R) is lower for the high-emissivity blind than the low-emissivity blind with the ESP-R calculation. As the mean radiant temperature is defined by view factors and surface temperature, only, all is well, no? The low-e blind has a higher temperature, thus I would expect the mean radiant temperature close to the blind to be higher. That is what you seem to have obtained as result? Best regards, Achim ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 11:33:33 +0200 From: "Geissler Achim" Subject: [esp-r] Re: R: Mean Radiant Temperature To: "Francesco Frontini" , Message-ID: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C45EC09 at sgartgum1.gart.intra> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Dear Francesco, the definitions I know of for mean radiant temperature do not take emissivity into account. The interesting question probably is, is the measure "MRT" useful for environments with large differences in emissivity? Of course, for radiation heat transfer, the emissivity is important (that is what I think you want to describe?). I would assume that the definition of MRT is based on the "normal" case, that all surfaces of an indoor space have an emissivity of approx. 0.9. Thus, the description of the radiative surroundings by temperature alone is sufficient. For your case, you may need to define a "new" MRT - maybe more a "mean radiant heat exchange" type of coefficient (or try PPD / PMV calculations, however, these also use standard mean radiant temperature for their calculation). Regards, Achim -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r- bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Francesco Frontini Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 10:35 AM To: Geissler Achim; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] R: Mean Radiant Temperature Dear Achim Yes I have obtained a MRT, close to the blind, higher for the solution with low-e blind (that has a higer surface temperature). But for my opinion the MRT has to take into account not only the view factor and the temperature of the surface but also the emissivity. For that reason I'm also supposing that with a low emmissivity also the MRT should be low (for exemple if the view factor is the same: 43,88?x0,9>48.21?x0,5! Where the formula is (T1(?C)blind)*(emissivity(1))>(T2(?C)blind)*(emissivity(2))!!!). It's not correct? Best regards, Francesco -----Messaggio originale----- Da: Geissler Achim [mailto:Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch] Inviato: marted? 20 maggio 2008 9.23 A: francesco.frontini at polimi.it; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Oggetto: RE: [esp-r] Mean Radiant Temperature Dear Francesco, We want to assess the impact on the operative temperature in an office if we use an internal blind with a low-emissivity coating (0,5 emissivity for indoor-facing surface) instead of 0.9 emissivity. We made two different simulation: static (with WIS program) and Dynamic (ESP-r). The results from WIS and from ESP-R for the blind surface temperature are consistent (blind temperature about 5K higher for the low-emissivity blind). That is good news. However, the mean radiant temperature at a position close to the blind (0.5 m in ESP-R) is lower for the high-emissivity blind than the low-emissivity blind with the ESP-R calculation. As the mean radiant temperature is defined by view factors and surface temperature, only, all is well, no? The low-e blind has a higher temperature, thus I would expect the mean radiant temperature close to the blind to be higher. That is what you seem to have obtained as result? Best regards, Achim _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 11:36:21 +0100 From: Jon Hand Subject: [esp-r] Re: R: Mean Radiant Temperature To: "Geissler Achim" , "Francesco Frontini" , Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" There is a radiant asymmetry report as part of the comfort report and I think that will be taking account of the emissivity. There is an esp-r model which deals with a heated ceiling panel and location specific comfort for a patient in a bed which needs to be added as an exemplar model. -Jon Hand -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk on behalf of Geissler Achim Sent: Tue 5/20/2008 10:33 AM To: Francesco Frontini; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Re: R: Mean Radiant Temperature Dear Francesco, the definitions I know of for mean radiant temperature do not take emissivity into account. The interesting question probably is, is the measure "MRT" useful for environments with large differences in emissivity? Of course, for radiation heat transfer, the emissivity is important (that is what I think you want to describe?). I would assume that the definition of MRT is based on the "normal" case, that all surfaces of an indoor space have an emissivity of approx. 0.9. Thus, the description of the radiative surroundings by temperature alone is sufficient. For your case, you may need to define a "new" MRT - maybe more a "mean radiant heat exchange" type of coefficient (or try PPD / PMV calculations, however, these also use standard mean radiant temperature for their calculation). Regards, Achim -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r- bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Francesco Frontini Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 10:35 AM To: Geissler Achim; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] R: Mean Radiant Temperature Dear Achim Yes I have obtained a MRT, close to the blind, higher for the solution with low-e blind (that has a higer surface temperature). But for my opinion the MRT has to take into account not only the view factor and the temperature of the surface but also the emissivity. For that reason I'm also supposing that with a low emmissivity also the MRT should be low (for exemple if the view factor is the same: 43,88?x0,9>48.21?x0,5! Where the formula is (T1(?C)blind)*(emissivity(1))>(T2(?C)blind)*(emissivity(2))!!!). It's not correct? Best regards, Francesco -----Messaggio originale----- Da: Geissler Achim [mailto:Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch] Inviato: marted? 20 maggio 2008 9.23 A: francesco.frontini at polimi.it; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Oggetto: RE: [esp-r] Mean Radiant Temperature Dear Francesco, We want to assess the impact on the operative temperature in an office if we use an internal blind with a low-emissivity coating (0,5 emissivity for indoor-facing surface) instead of 0.9 emissivity. We made two different simulation: static (with WIS program) and Dynamic (ESP-r). The results from WIS and from ESP-R for the blind surface temperature are consistent (blind temperature about 5K higher for the low-emissivity blind). That is good news. However, the mean radiant temperature at a position close to the blind (0.5 m in ESP-R) is lower for the high-emissivity blind than the low-emissivity blind with the ESP-R calculation. As the mean radiant temperature is defined by view factors and surface temperature, only, all is well, no? The low-e blind has a higher temperature, thus I would expect the mean radiant temperature close to the blind to be higher. That is what you seem to have obtained as result? Best regards, Achim _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080523/02549844/attachment-0001.html From AFerguso at NRCan.gc.ca Fri May 23 14:42:39 2008 From: AFerguso at NRCan.gc.ca (Ferguson, Alex) Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 09:42:39 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] Re: esp-r thermal analysis algorithms References: <48335879.14be600a.16a0.753d@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hi Danny. Joe Clarke's book, "Energy Sumulation in Building Design" provides a concise description of ESP-r methodologies. (http://www.elsevier.com/wps/find/bookdescription.cws_home/677125/description#description) You can also review the numerous publications on the ESRU website for details on individual algorithms inside ESP-r. Alex Ferguson Sustainable Buildings and Communities (Housing Group) CANMET Energy Technology Centre Natural Resources Canada P:+1 613 995 3294 F:+1 613 996 9909 Alex.Ferguson at nrcan.gc.ca ________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk on behalf of Danny Bishop Sent: Tue 5/20/2008 19:02 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] esp-r thermal analysis algorithms Hi All Can anyone tell me, or point me to a description of the general type of thermal algorithms employed by ESP-r. An example is the "admittance method" employed by Ecotect, and it has a couple of paragraphs describing it in its help file. So if there is a name for the algorithm that would be great too. Any opinions of the accuracy or benefits as compared with Ecotect and E+ much appreciated as well. Cheers Danny From zhongqiu at cityu.edu.hk Sun May 25 14:37:29 2008 From: zhongqiu at cityu.edu.hk (QIU) Date: Sun, 25 May 2008 21:37:29 +0800 Subject: [esp-r] PV generation, winter's power >> summer's? Message-ID: <0K1F00LZMF50CB00@smtp04.cityu.edu.hk> Dear all, I'm using the "integrated renewable model" to simulate PV generation.The result indicates that power generated in winter is unbelievably 4 times more than in summer. But obviously, direct plus diffuse radiation in summer is much bigger than in winter. So why that? everybody has similar experience? Thank you. Regards, Qiu From zhongqiu at cityu.edu.hk Sun May 25 14:41:10 2008 From: zhongqiu at cityu.edu.hk (QIU) Date: Sun, 25 May 2008 21:41:10 +0800 Subject: [esp-r] Radiance install on linux 10.2? Message-ID: <0K1F00LBDFB7CB10@smtp04.cityu.edu.hk> Dear all, How to install Radiance on Linux 10.2? I downloaded radiance long time ago, but failed to install it. Any answers are great help. Thank you in advance. Regards, Qiu From Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch Mon May 26 10:54:17 2008 From: Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch (Geissler Achim) Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 11:54:17 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: PV generation, winter's power >> summer's? References: <0K1F00LZMF50CB00@smtp04.cityu.edu.hk> Message-ID: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C45F051@sgartgum1.gart.intra> ... check the "performance of PV vs. Cell temperature" of the model. Performance of (standard) PV modules generally deteriorates with rising temperature ... what is the tilt of the PV? Vertical? A vertical surface may receive similar amounts of radiation in winter for locations "close" to the equator ... integrate the actual radiation received on the corresponding surface for each of the intervals of interest to get an idea of what really to expect Regards, Achim > -----Original Message----- > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r- > bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of QIU > Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2008 3:37 PM > To: esp-r > Subject: [esp-r] PV generation, winter's power >> summer's? > > Dear all, > > I'm using the "integrated renewable model" to simulate PV generation.The > result indicates that power generated in winter is unbelievably 4 times > more than in summer. But obviously, direct plus diffuse radiation in > summer is much bigger than in winter. > > So why that? everybody has similar experience? > > Thank you. > > Regards, > > Qiu > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From nick at esru.strath.ac.uk Tue May 27 09:16:25 2008 From: nick at esru.strath.ac.uk (Nicolas Kelly) Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 09:16:25 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: PV generation, winter's power >> summer's? In-Reply-To: <0K1F00LZMF50CB00@smtp04.cityu.edu.hk> References: <0K1F00LZMF50CB00@smtp04.cityu.edu.hk> Message-ID: <47BBFC6D736E714E8B490CEED8C1CCB401B17479@BE-SCAM2.ds.strath.ac.uk> Dear Qui - Could you provide more information on the specific PV model you are using and the context for the simulation. The PV modelling capability has been in ESP-r for over 10 year and its been validated many times so I'm surprised your getting results like these. Regards, Nick Kelly ________________________________ Nick Kelly BEng MSc PhD RCUK Academic Fellow Energy Systems Research Unit Dept of Mechanical Engineering University of Strathclyde e-mail: nick at esru.strath.ac.uk tel: +44(0)141 548 2854 fax: +44(0)141 552 5105 ________________________________ -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of QIU Sent: 25 May 2008 14:37 To: esp-r Subject: [esp-r] PV generation, winter's power >> summer's? Dear all, I'm using the "integrated renewable model" to simulate PV generation.The result indicates that power generated in winter is unbelievably 4 times more than in summer. But obviously, direct plus diffuse radiation in summer is much bigger than in winter. So why that? everybody has similar experience? Thank you. Regards, Qiu _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From dave at howorth.org.uk Mon May 26 17:49:05 2008 From: dave at howorth.org.uk (Dave Howorth) Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 17:49:05 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Can't save constructions database Message-ID: <1211820545.4800.185.camel@piglet.howorth.org.uk> I'm just starting out with ESP-r and am having some trouble. I've added a couple of materials to the database - straw bales and lime render - and that seems to have worked (initially it gave me errors but I changed the file permissions to allow me to save). But when I try to add a wall construction using those materials the constructions database isn't saved. It prompts me to save it and I do try to save it. It prompts me to overwrite the file, and I say yes. Then it gives me a dialog about reflecting changes in the database and rebuilding zone construction, which I don't understand. But there's no error message as there was when the permissions were wrong. Equally, there's no change to the file :( What am I doing wrong? Thanks and regards, Dave Howorth From bish.dj at gmail.com Wed May 28 04:09:30 2008 From: bish.dj at gmail.com (Danny Bishop) Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 13:09:30 +1000 Subject: [esp-r] daylighting with ESP-r Message-ID: <483cccef.1def600a.778e.0371@mx.google.com> Hi All Can anyone tell me a bit about, or point me towards a description of the daylighting capabilities of ESP-r? I understand it has a reasonable interface with radiance - is that how most people use it for daylighting analysis? Cheers Danny -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080528/9ef75b80/attachment.html From bish.dj at gmail.com Wed May 28 04:53:19 2008 From: bish.dj at gmail.com (Danny Bishop) Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 13:53:19 +1000 Subject: [esp-r] solarventi heating/ventilation Message-ID: <483cd736.12da600a.1961.0c95@mx.google.com> Hi All Has anyone done any analysis on the solarventi system as described here http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/ges/pdfs/SolarVenti_Brochure_08%204-page%20w eb.pdf For the purposes of this email we'll look at the heating case. If no one has done any analysis, can anyone suggest a simple way to model the system? Cheers Danny -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080528/ae505e32/attachment.html From froshin at dasskorea.com Wed May 28 02:26:49 2008 From: froshin at dasskorea.com (=?euc-kr?B?TGV3aXMgWW9vaw==?=) Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 10:26:49 +0900 Subject: [esp-r] =?euc-kr?q?Emissivity?= Message-ID: <12119380094381272@froshin> Dear All. Let me ask you a simple but very urgent question. I refered to FAQ in Esru documations regarding this matter, but I couldn't find satisfacting answer. 1. Would any one of you tell me which part exaclty shows the emmisivity of the following double window? ========================================= DCF7671_6omb :Clear float 76/71, 6mm open mid blnd # def lyr, tmc lyr, vis trn, sol refl, sol absor, U val 1, 5, 0.76, 0.11, 0.28, 2.8 # direct trn @ 5 angles, total heat gain @ 5 angles 0.611, 0.583, 0.534, 0.384, 0.170, 0.711, 0.690, 0.645, 0.487, 0.250 # refr index, absorption @ 5 angles for each tmc layer 1.52, 0.157, 0.172, 0.185, 0.201, 0.202 1.00, 0.001, 0.002, 0.003, 0.004, 0.005 1.00, 0.172, 0.181, 0.178, 0.151, 0.097 1.00, 0.001, 0.002, 0.003, 0.004, 0.005 1.52, 0.117, 0.124, 0.127, 0.112, 0.077 =============================================== As far as I know, the emissivity should be described for each single glass. 2. That means, there should be two emissivity values on in one double window. Is it wrong? Your right answer will be highly appreciated. Lewis Yook Team Manager, Integrated Simulation Unit. Design and Simulation for Sustainability (DASS) consultants Ltd. 143-834 Venture Support Center 304-ho 632-9 Guui-dong Gwangjin-gu, Seoul, Korea T. 82.2.913.2585 F. 82.2.949.2585 H. www.dasskorea.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080528/234442b6/attachment.html From esprfans at hotmail.com Thu May 29 04:26:59 2008 From: esprfans at hotmail.com (Leepaul) Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 11:26:59 +0800 Subject: [esp-r] (no subject) Message-ID: Dear, all ESP-r users, 1 Does the "Ventilation Rate", spesified together with "Infiltration" in Schedule, impact on indoor convective coefficient? 2 When will Radiance have to be used in ESP-r? I use the linux 10.2 Operating System, and ESP-r linux 11.4 version, then what version Radiance should I install? thank u for ur help. Paul _________________________________________________________________ ???MSN??????????????????? http://mobile.msn.com.cn/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080529/ed454553/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Thu May 29 09:31:27 2008 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 09:31:27 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Emissivity References: <12119380094381272@froshin> Message-ID: A recent question about emissivity (see the email below)... The listing of data is the optical properties. Optical data is only for the visable and shortwave. Emissivity of a property of the materials in the multi-layer construction which is associated with this optical property. The QA report which can be generated from within the Project Manager will tell you both sets of properties if you toggle the database reporting to verbose and select at least one thermal zone which includes a construction using this optical attribute. At the current time, materials in ESP-r have one emissivity attribute that applies to both faces of the material. If you want each side to have a different emissivity then you have to use two adjacent layers/materials. A future version of ESP-r will use a database structure that allows the front and back of a material to have a different set of surface properties. Regards, Jon Hand -----Original Message----- 1. Would any one of you tell me which part exaclty shows the emmisivity of the following double window? ========================================= DCF7671_6omb :Clear float 76/71, 6mm open mid blnd # def lyr, tmc lyr, vis trn, sol refl, sol absor, U val 1, 5, 0.76, 0.11, 0.28, 2.8 # direct trn @ 5 angles, total heat gain @ 5 angles 0.611, 0.583, 0.534, 0.384, 0.170, 0.711, 0.690, 0.645, 0.487, 0.250 # refr index, absorption @ 5 angles for each tmc layer 1.52, 0.157, 0.172, 0.185, 0.201, 0.202 1.00, 0.001, 0.002, 0.003, 0.004, 0.005 1.00, 0.172, 0.181, 0.178, 0.151, 0.097 1.00, 0.001, 0.002, 0.003, 0.004, 0.005 1.52, 0.117, 0.124, 0.127, 0.112, 0.077 =============================================== As far as I know, the emissivity should be described for each single glass. 2. That means, there should be two emissivity values on in one double window. Is it wrong? Your right answer will be highly appreciated. Lewis Yook Team Manager, Integrated Simulation Unit. Design and Simulation for Sustainability (DASS) consultants Ltd. 143-834 Venture Support Center 304-ho 632-9 Guui-dong Gwangjin-gu, Seoul, Korea T. 82.2.913.2585 F. 82.2.949.2585 H. www.dasskorea.com From paul at esru.strath.ac.uk Thu May 29 09:32:57 2008 From: paul at esru.strath.ac.uk (Paul Strachan) Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 09:32:57 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] ESP-r release 11.5 Message-ID: <483E6A39.30003@esru.strath.ac.uk> Dear ESP-r users, Installers for release 11.5 are now on the ESRU website (http://www.esru.strath.ac.uk/Downloads/downloads.htm#ESP-r). These are for Linux, OSX, Cygwin and Windows. Regards Paul From dave at howorth.org.uk Thu May 29 21:28:15 2008 From: dave at howorth.org.uk (Dave Howorth) Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 21:28:15 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Emissivity In-Reply-To: References: <12119380094381272@froshin> Message-ID: <1212092895.4800.217.camel@piglet.howorth.org.uk> On Thu, 2008-05-29 at 09:31 +0100, Jon Hand wrote: > A recent question about emissivity (see the email below)... > > The listing of data is the optical properties. Optical data > is only for the visable and shortwave. > > > > A future version of ESP-r will use a database structure that > allows the front and back of a material to have a different > set of surface properties. I'm curious about frequency-dependent emissivity, especially 'solar' versus 'thermal' frequencies? Thanks, Dave From erydjunaedy at gmail.com Thu May 29 21:59:16 2008 From: erydjunaedy at gmail.com (Ery Djunaedy) Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 14:59:16 -0600 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Emissivity In-Reply-To: References: <12119380094381272@froshin> Message-ID: <483F1924.3090908@gmail.com> Jon, I do not think the bps refers to the materials database directly. There are two lines in the CON file that lists the internal and external emissivity of every surface. These two lines are created and updated through the prj, which refers the number from the materials database. During the simulation bps only refers to these two lines, and not to the materials database. My point is, theoretically, we can change the emissivity values in the CON file to have different emissivity values for inside and outside surface. However, this should be done with two warnings: (1) one should know which number belongs to which surface, and (2) whatever changes made manually will be overwritten if the CON file is recreated through prj. Is this a correct short-cut before we have the future versions of ESP-r that will allow this to happen through the database? Thanks, Ery Jon Hand wrote: > A recent question about emissivity (see the email below)... > > The listing of data is the optical properties. Optical data > is only for the visable and shortwave. Emissivity of a property > of the materials in the multi-layer construction which is > associated with this optical property. The QA report which > can be generated from within the Project Manager will tell > you both sets of properties if you toggle the database reporting > to verbose and select at least one thermal zone which includes > a construction using this optical attribute. > > At the current time, materials in ESP-r have one emissivity > attribute that applies to both faces of the material. If you > want each side to have a different emissivity then you have > to use two adjacent layers/materials. > > A future version of ESP-r will use a database structure that > allows the front and back of a material to have a different > set of surface properties. > > Regards, Jon Hand > > > -----Original Message----- > > 1. Would any one of you tell me which part exaclty shows the emmisivity of the following double window? > ========================================= > > DCF7671_6omb :Clear float 76/71, 6mm open mid blnd > # def lyr, tmc lyr, vis trn, sol refl, sol absor, U val > 1, 5, 0.76, 0.11, 0.28, 2.8 > # direct trn @ 5 angles, total heat gain @ 5 angles > 0.611, 0.583, 0.534, 0.384, 0.170, 0.711, 0.690, 0.645, 0.487, 0.250 > # refr index, absorption @ 5 angles for each tmc layer > 1.52, 0.157, 0.172, 0.185, 0.201, 0.202 > 1.00, 0.001, 0.002, 0.003, 0.004, 0.005 > 1.00, 0.172, 0.181, 0.178, 0.151, 0.097 > 1.00, 0.001, 0.002, 0.003, 0.004, 0.005 > 1.52, 0.117, 0.124, 0.127, 0.112, 0.077 > =============================================== > > > > As far as I know, the emissivity should be described for each single glass. > > 2. That means, there should be two emissivity values on in one double window. > Is it wrong? > > Your right answer will be highly appreciated. > > > Lewis Yook > Team Manager, > Integrated Simulation Unit. > Design and Simulation for Sustainability (DASS) consultants Ltd. > > 143-834 > Venture Support Center 304-ho > 632-9 Guui-dong Gwangjin-gu, Seoul, Korea > T. 82.2.913.2585 F. 82.2.949.2585 > H. www.dasskorea.com > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Fri May 30 11:10:10 2008 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 11:10:10 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Emissivity References: <12119380094381272@froshin> <483F1924.3090908@gmail.com> Message-ID: You are correct that bps is reading the zone construction files for the emissivity and that you could manually edit these files (with great fear because it is liable to being overwritten). Users used to do such editing and it often created subtle errors in models so there are lots of dragons there! But remember these emissivities are for the front surface of the whole construction and the back of the whole constuction. For the case of a single layer construction editing would be required to get the different properties. \ And remember that ESP-r does not use the emissivity at each side of an air gap - it uses an air gap resistance. I believe that someone is working on code to explicitly model the radiant transfer in an air gap. -Jon Hand -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk on behalf of Ery Djunaedy Sent: Thu 5/29/2008 9:59 PM To: ESP-r User Forum Subject: [esp-r] Re: Emissivity Jon, I do not think the bps refers to the materials database directly. There are two lines in the CON file that lists the internal and external emissivity of every surface. These two lines are created and updated through the prj, which refers the number from the materials database. During the simulation bps only refers to these two lines, and not to the materials database. My point is, theoretically, we can change the emissivity values in the CON file to have different emissivity values for inside and outside surface. However, this should be done with two warnings: (1) one should know which number belongs to which surface, and (2) whatever changes made manually will be overwritten if the CON file is recreated through prj. Is this a correct short-cut before we have the future versions of ESP-r that will allow this to happen through the database? Thanks, Ery Jon Hand wrote: > A recent question about emissivity (see the email below)... > > The listing of data is the optical properties. Optical data > is only for the visable and shortwave. Emissivity of a property > of the materials in the multi-layer construction which is > associated with this optical property. The QA report which > can be generated from within the Project Manager will tell > you both sets of properties if you toggle the database reporting > to verbose and select at least one thermal zone which includes > a construction using this optical attribute. > > At the current time, materials in ESP-r have one emissivity > attribute that applies to both faces of the material. If you > want each side to have a different emissivity then you have > to use two adjacent layers/materials. > > A future version of ESP-r will use a database structure that > allows the front and back of a material to have a different > set of surface properties. > > Regards, Jon Hand > > > -----Original Message----- > > 1. Would any one of you tell me which part exaclty shows the emmisivity of the following double window? > ========================================= > > DCF7671_6omb :Clear float 76/71, 6mm open mid blnd > # def lyr, tmc lyr, vis trn, sol refl, sol absor, U val > 1, 5, 0.76, 0.11, 0.28, 2.8 > # direct trn @ 5 angles, total heat gain @ 5 angles > 0.611, 0.583, 0.534, 0.384, 0.170, 0.711, 0.690, 0.645, 0.487, 0.250 > # refr index, absorption @ 5 angles for each tmc layer > 1.52, 0.157, 0.172, 0.185, 0.201, 0.202 > 1.00, 0.001, 0.002, 0.003, 0.004, 0.005 > 1.00, 0.172, 0.181, 0.178, 0.151, 0.097 > 1.00, 0.001, 0.002, 0.003, 0.004, 0.005 > 1.52, 0.117, 0.124, 0.127, 0.112, 0.077 > =============================================== > > > > As far as I know, the emissivity should be described for each single glass. > > 2. That means, there should be two emissivity values on in one double window. > Is it wrong? > > Your right answer will be highly appreciated. > > > Lewis Yook > Team Manager, > Integrated Simulation Unit. > Design and Simulation for Sustainability (DASS) consultants Ltd. > > 143-834 > Venture Support Center 304-ho > 632-9 Guui-dong Gwangjin-gu, Seoul, Korea > T. 82.2.913.2585 F. 82.2.949.2585 > H. www.dasskorea.com > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From esprfans at hotmail.com Fri May 30 14:14:17 2008 From: esprfans at hotmail.com (Leepaul) Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 21:14:17 +0800 Subject: [esp-r] Ventilation Rate? Message-ID: Dear, all ESP-r users, 1 Does the "Ventilation Rate", spesified together with "Infiltration" in Schedule, impact on indoor convective coefficient? 2 When will Radiance have to be used in ESP-r? I use the linux 10.2 Operating System, and ESP-r linux 11.4 version, then what version Radiance should I install? thank you for your help. Paul _________________________________________________________________ ?????????live mail???????? http://get.live.cn/product/mail.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080530/e00378f1/attachment.html From blomanow at engmail.uwaterloo.ca Mon Jun 2 05:20:30 2008 From: blomanow at engmail.uwaterloo.ca (Bart Lomanowski) Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2008 00:20:30 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Emissivity - complex fenestration Message-ID: <20080602002030.vzfi2injkos448w4@www.nexusmail.uwaterloo.ca> > And remember that ESP-r does not use the emissivity > at each side of an air gap - it uses an air gap resistance. > I believe that someone is working on code to explicitly > model the radiant transfer in an air gap. My work, which is almost ready for general release, deals with complex fenestration including a general framework for glazing/shading layers. I've created a new construction type (CFC) which handles solar optical and thermal processes based on individual layer properties. Cavity resistances are calculated at run-time for any gas mixture and glass emissivity. The front end is a small graphical editor used to construct the glazing/shading system, with an import facility to pass the data into an ESP-r input file similar in structure to a *.tmc file. The main intent of the work is to treat shading layers such as venetian blinds as part of the building fabric, recognizing that thermal aspects of shading layer position within the window (outside, between glass, inside) play a significant role in the total solar gain to the indoor space. Windows without shading layers can also be finely tuned by allowing the user to assemble a glazing product based on the NFRC glazing database, in any arrangment, with any combination of fill gases. The intent of the project is really to bridge the gap between researchers and designers to better understand the impact of shading on building loads. I will be sure to generate documentation and a user manual in the upcoming months, but first I have to write my thesis, which I will also make available. I am happy to provide more detail to anyone who has questions. -Bart --- Bartosz Lomanowski MASc Candidate Solar Thermal Research Lab Department of Mechanical Engineering University of Waterloo 200 University Avenue West Waterloo, Ontario, Canada N2L 3G1 +1 519 888 4567 x33885 From blomanow at engmail.uwaterloo.ca Mon Jun 2 05:20:37 2008 From: blomanow at engmail.uwaterloo.ca (Bart Lomanowski) Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2008 00:20:37 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Emissivity - complex fenestration Message-ID: <20080602002037.v4s1tbaxlwsoo8k8@www.nexusmail.uwaterloo.ca> > And remember that ESP-r does not use the emissivity > at each side of an air gap - it uses an air gap resistance. > I believe that someone is working on code to explicitly > model the radiant transfer in an air gap. My work, which is almost ready for general release, deals with complex fenestration including a general framework for glazing/shading layers. I've created a new construction type (CFC) which handles solar optical and thermal processes based on individual layer properties. Cavity resistances are calculated at run-time for any gas mixture and glass emissivity. The front end is a small graphical editor used to construct the glazing/shading system, with an import facility to pass the data into an ESP-r input file similar in structure to a *.tmc file. The main intent of the work is to treat shading layers such as venetian blinds as part of the building fabric, recognizing that thermal aspects of shading layer position within the window (outside, between glass, inside) play a significant role in the total solar gain to the indoor space. Windows without shading layers can also be finely tuned by allowing the user to assemble a glazing product based on the NFRC glazing database, in any arrangment, with any combination of fill gases. The intent of the project is really to bridge the gap between researchers and designers to better understand the impact of shading on building loads. I will be sure to generate documentation and a user manual in the upcoming months, but first I have to write my thesis, which I will also make available. I am happy to provide more detail to anyone who has questions. -Bart --- Bartosz Lomanowski MASc Candidate Solar Thermal Research Lab Department of Mechanical Engineering University of Waterloo 200 University Avenue West Waterloo, Ontario, Canada N2L 3G1 +1 519 888 4567 x33885 From dave at howorth.org.uk Wed Jun 4 00:18:26 2008 From: dave at howorth.org.uk (Dave Howorth) Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2008 00:18:26 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] databases Message-ID: <1212535106.4800.277.camel@piglet.howorth.org.uk> I started to look at the databases that come with ESP-r, beginning with the materials one. I noticed what seems to be an error in the thermal conductivity of copper (it's less than that of aluminium) and it set me wondering whether any/all of the databases that are distributed with the software are validated in any way? Or are there other databases that are validated? I didn't find any information in the docs or by googling. A related question is whether the format of the databases is documented somewhere? I noticed there are some quirks in the layout in various places in the text files and would like to be sure I make valid files if I edit them. Or is it a case of UTSL? Thanks, Dave From g0301083 at nus.edu.sg Fri Jun 6 14:45:08 2008 From: g0301083 at nus.edu.sg (Wang Liping) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 21:45:08 +0800 Subject: [esp-r] convection coefficients Message-ID: <2703246910D348498750C3342F1EABAF01739988@MBX22.stu.nus.edu.sg> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080606/89625dd5/attachment.html From 3nes at queensu.ca Mon Jun 9 18:15:33 2008 From: 3nes at queensu.ca (Evan Sterling) Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 13:15:33 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] Modelling curtain-wall vs. modelling windows Message-ID: <5cd28790806091015x21dc54ddx66de805e24beba50@mail.gmail.com> I am trying to model a building with some curtain-wall sections, but the specifications I have only provide thermal performance data on the glass itself, not the entire unit with aluminum framing, silicone glazing, etc. My one idea is to model the curtainwall with equivalent areas of glass and aluminum, but this doesn't seem terribly accurate. Is there a better option? Thanks, Evan Sterling Mathematics & Engineering Queen's University Kingston, Ontario -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080609/783cccf3/attachment.html From Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch Tue Jun 10 09:36:06 2008 From: Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch (Geissler Achim) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 10:36:06 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Modelling curtain-wall vs. modelling windows References: <5cd28790806091015x21dc54ddx66de805e24beba50@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C4893D9@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Hi Evan, I am not quite sure what you mean by "equivalent areas" with "aluminum", however here some rough guidelines ("European Standard" Curtain Walling): Glass U-value 1.4 => typical curtain wall U-value for Glass + corresponding frame area approx. 1.7 to 2.0 Center of Panel U-value 0.35 => typical curtain wall U-value for Panel + corresponding frame approx 0.7 (all in W/(m2 K)). Here, "Panel" as in "spandrel panel" or the like. For radiation properties: Find out what coating is to be used for the glass and best use Window5. Regards, Achim ________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Evan Sterling Sent: Monday, June 09, 2008 7:16 PM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Modelling curtain-wall vs. modelling windows I am trying to model a building with some curtain-wall sections, but the specifications I have only provide thermal performance data on the glass itself, not the entire unit with aluminum framing, silicone glazing, etc. My one idea is to model the curtainwall with equivalent areas of glass and aluminum, but this doesn't seem terribly accurate. Is there a better option? Thanks, Evan Sterling Mathematics & Engineering Queen's University Kingston, Ontario -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080610/e12b3508/attachment.html From Denis.Bourgeois at arc.ulaval.ca Tue Jun 10 11:20:17 2008 From: Denis.Bourgeois at arc.ulaval.ca (Denis J. Bourgeois) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 06:20:17 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] RE : Re: Modelling curtain-wall vs. modelling windows In-Reply-To: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C4893D9@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Message-ID: Hi Evan, As with Achim, I don't understand what you mean by modelling a curtainwall with equivalent areas of glass and aluminium. Achim's numbers are quite fine, although performance can vary widely for both vision and spandrel panels - for a quick check on curtain wall performance (U) based on design options (namely size), you can look up FRAMEplus Online from Enermodal Engineering: http://p10a.enermodal.com/WebFPlus/SpandrelPage.aspx There's a good eSim paper on the significance of curtain wall design options and energy performance (if that's what you're interested in): http://www.esim.ca/2002/documents/Proceedings/Session%203a-5.pdf - Denis -----Message d'origine----- De : esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] De la part de Geissler Achim Envoy? : June 10, 2008 4:36 AM ? : Evan Sterling; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Objet : [esp-r] Re: Modelling curtain-wall vs. modelling windows Hi Evan, I am not quite sure what you mean by "equivalent areas" with "aluminum", however here some rough guidelines ("European Standard" Curtain Walling): Glass U-value 1.4 => typical curtain wall U-value for Glass + corresponding frame area approx. 1.7 to 2.0 Center of Panel U-value 0.35 => typical curtain wall U-value for Panel + corresponding frame approx 0.7 (all in W/(m2 K)). Here, "Panel" as in "spandrel panel" or the like. For radiation properties: Find out what coating is to be used for the glass and best use Window5. Regards, Achim ________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Evan Sterling Sent: Monday, June 09, 2008 7:16 PM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Modelling curtain-wall vs. modelling windows I am trying to model a building with some curtain-wall sections, but the specifications I have only provide thermal performance data on the glass itself, not the entire unit with aluminum framing, silicone glazing, etc. My one idea is to model the curtainwall with equivalent areas of glass and aluminum, but this doesn't seem terribly accurate. Is there a better option? Thanks, Evan Sterling Mathematics & Engineering Queen's University Kingston, Ontario -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080610/4c595629/attachment.html From xijiayu at hotmail.com Tue Jun 10 15:35:55 2008 From: xijiayu at hotmail.com (wong ing liang) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 14:35:55 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] energy vs time In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear esp-r users, We all know ESP-r can give us graphs showing temperature profile against time variants. I am more interested in energy consumption in a particular zone. Is that possible for ESP-r to generate similar graphs, but showing energy consumption vs a period of days? The energy delivery function at the moment, only give us summary of energy consumption for each month only. Thank you. Regards, Wong _________________________________________________________________ Easily publish your photos to your Spaces with Photo Gallery. http://get.live.com/photogallery/overview -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080610/03e2b9c9/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Tue Jun 10 18:03:48 2008 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 18:03:48 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: energy vs time References: Message-ID: The short answer is yes! You can graph heating and cooling associated with zones. It is in the graphs menu. Look down the list of items for an entry 'heat/cool/humidify'. Is there, perhaps a better label to give this entry? -Jon Hand -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk on behalf of wong ing liang Sent: Tue 6/10/2008 3:35 PM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] energy vs time Dear esp-r users, We all know ESP-r can give us graphs showing temperature profile against time variants. I am more interested in energy consumption in a particular zone. Is that possible for ESP-r to generate similar graphs, but showing energy consumption vs a period of days? The energy delivery function at the moment, only give us summary of energy consumption for each month only. Thank you. Regards, Wong _________________________________________________________________ Easily publish your photos to your Spaces with Photo Gallery. http://get.live.com/photogallery/overview From k.u.arch at gmail.com Tue Jun 10 23:00:07 2008 From: k.u.arch at gmail.com (KAPIL UPADHYAYA) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 17:00:07 -0500 Subject: [esp-r] Energy modelling job opportunity in a dynamic architectural firm Message-ID: Kirksey is seeking a new or recent college graduate with up to two years work experience for an entry-level Energy Analyst position with our EcoServices team. We seek a person with a passion for green building and sustainability. The position includes energy modeling, daylight modeling, other types of building simulation, and green building research. The ideal candidate will be articulate and highly organized with strong technical, communications and writing skills. Candidates must be able to read detailed architectural and mechanical drawings and specifications, and understand building industry terms, though they need not be architecture graduates. Candidates with school or work projects reflecting knowledge of green building and/or LEED are strongly preferred. LEED Accreditation is strongly preferred. Education and/or work experience related to mechanical engineering is also a plus. Please send resumes and a cover letter to Julie Hendricks at julieh at kirksey.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080610/48bdadf1/attachment.html From cah at byg.dtu.dk Fri Jun 13 17:55:34 2008 From: cah at byg.dtu.dk (Christian Anker Hviid) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 18:55:34 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Contamination modelling reveals multiple issues Message-ID: <78B14BBA2B77DF4186B975430E16648B017462@mail3.byg.dtu.dk> Dear ESP-r community I am puzzled byt the contamination feature. Here are my findings: I have a model of a building where I use a combined air flow network (AFN) and plant system (PLANT) with a control law that acts on the air flow network. I introduce a contamination model CONT with CO2. The contamination model and the building have the same timestep /hour. I have included an examplar file in the results: cellular_contam_bc which contains AFN and CONT. With timestep averaged output (hourly integration) AFN + PLANT: Flow looks fine. Flow is controlled by the ctrl law and shows high value in day and low at night. AFN + CONT: Flow is wrong with jagged spikes and values beyond reality. CO2 is also jagged. AFN + PLANT + CONT: Flow is obviously wrong with jagged spikes. CO2 levels are also jagged spikes. EXAMPLAR: CO2 is fine if plotted first, flow is oscillating. Output saved at each timestep: AFN + PLANT : Flow is not correct, shows almost constant value. Not possible to plot results when a plant model is included here? AFN + CONT: Flow is correct and CO2 is correct if I plot CO2 before flow. Plotting flow first spoils the y-axis scale of CO2. Adjusting scale does not bring CO2 curve back. AFN + PLANT + CONT: Flow is not correct, almost constant value. CO2 seems ok if I consider the flow results. EXAMPLAR: CO2 looks fine, Flow looks nice. What am I doing wrong? Contamination works ok fine with AFN, but not with a combined AFN+PLANT. Why does AFN+CONT only work when I save output at each timestep? Anybody with experience in contamination modelling? Thank you for your help. Best regards Christian Anker Hviid Civ. ing., Erhvervsph.d.-studerende DTU BYG / Alectia A/S Brovej, bygning 118, lok. 213 2800 Kgs. Lyngby E-mail: cah at byg.dtu.dk Tlf. DTU: 45 251 886 Tlf. Alectia: 88 191 365 Mob. (privat): 40 879 749 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080613/f8f9940b/attachment.html From aizaz.a.samuel at strath.ac.uk Mon Jun 16 13:10:12 2008 From: aizaz.a.samuel at strath.ac.uk (Aizaz Samuel) Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 13:10:12 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Contamination modelling reveals multiple issues In-Reply-To: <78B14BBA2B77DF4186B975430E16648B017462@mail3.byg.dtu.dk> References: <78B14BBA2B77DF4186B975430E16648B017462@mail3.byg.dtu.dk> Message-ID: <200806161310.12563.aizaz.a.samuel@strath.ac.uk> Christian, In my experience the problem is not with the way ESP simulates but in results display. I have noticed that if mass flow network results are viewed in a random way then unrealistic values may sometimes be observed. Contaminant simulation is based on network mass flow and therefore contaminant results may also appear different from expected when not viewed in sequential order. As far as I know the bug has not been resolved. The work around is to view all flows, concentrations etc. in order. Solver instability has been reported in the past for contaminant modelling, try reducing your timestep to few minutes. Although it may not have been tried before flow networks, plant and contaminants should work together - I plan to build such a model soon. Regards, Aizaz On Friday 13 June 2008 17:55, Christian Anker Hviid wrote: > Dear ESP-r community > > I am puzzled byt the contamination feature. Here are my findings: > > I have a model of a building where I use a combined air flow network (AFN) > and plant system (PLANT) with a control law that acts on the air flow > network. I introduce a contamination model CONT with CO2. The contamination > model and the building have the same timestep /hour. > > I have included an examplar file in the results: cellular_contam_bc which > contains AFN and CONT. > > With timestep averaged output (hourly integration) > AFN + PLANT: Flow looks fine. Flow is controlled by the ctrl law and shows > high value in day and low at night. AFN + CONT: Flow is wrong with jagged > spikes and values beyond reality. CO2 is also jagged. AFN + PLANT + CONT: > Flow is obviously wrong with jagged spikes. CO2 levels are also jagged > spikes. EXAMPLAR: CO2 is fine if plotted first, flow is oscillating. > > Output saved at each timestep: > AFN + PLANT : Flow is not correct, shows almost constant value. Not > possible to plot results when a plant model is included here? AFN + CONT: > Flow is correct and CO2 is correct if I plot CO2 before flow. Plotting flow > first spoils the y-axis scale of CO2. Adjusting scale does not bring CO2 > curve back. AFN + PLANT + CONT: Flow is not correct, almost constant value. > CO2 seems ok if I consider the flow results. EXAMPLAR: CO2 looks fine, Flow > looks nice. > > What am I doing wrong? Contamination works ok fine with AFN, but not with a > combined AFN+PLANT. Why does AFN+CONT only work when I save output at each > timestep? Anybody with experience in contamination modelling? Thank you for > your help. > > > Best regards > Christian Anker Hviid > > Civ. ing., Erhvervsph.d.-studerende > DTU BYG / Alectia A/S > Brovej, bygning 118, lok. 213 > 2800 Kgs. Lyngby > E-mail: cah at byg.dtu.dk > Tlf. DTU: 45 251 886 > Tlf. Alectia: 88 191 365 > Mob. (privat): 40 879 749 -- From Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch Tue Jun 17 07:22:53 2008 From: Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch (Geissler Achim) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 08:22:53 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Contamination modelling reveals multiple issues References: <78B14BBA2B77DF4186B975430E16648B017462@mail3.byg.dtu.dk> <200806161310.12563.aizaz.a.samuel@strath.ac.uk> Message-ID: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C489918@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Christian, in addition to the below, are you aware of the .xml output option? I do not know to which extent the contaminant and mass and air flow variables are threaded through to this output (plant output is to some degree), but if the variables you need are, it is much quicker than using res in my opinion (if you have a "graph tool of your choice" to hand, anyway). And, as it "only" dumps all the results values, there should be no strange output depending on sequence of results analysis (which sounds scary in any case!): Quote: Selective extraction of data based on user-inputs prior to a simulation exist in the xml-output. It works as follows: H3Kreports stores selected data in memory, or (optionally) on disk. Data not specified in the input.xml file are dropped. At the end of the simulation, H3Kreports spits out an out.xml with annual and monthly summary data, and (optionally) an out.csv file with time-step-by-time-step data. If the user provides a path to a valid xslt stylesheet, bps will use the libxslt library to dynamically translate into another format (e.g. .html, .svg) A sample input.xml file follows: flat true true false summary.csv /home/aferguso/esp-r/xsl/generic_summary.xsl true false false true building/month building/time/future building/all_zones* building/zone_??/flux* building/zone_??/air_point/temperature building/zone_??/casual_gains* climate/dry_bulb_temperature climate/solar/direct_normal_radiation total_fuel_use* plant/ideal* building/month building/time/future building/all_zones* building/zone_??/flux* building/zone_??/air_point/temperature building/zone_??/casual_gains* climate/dry_bulb_temperature climate/solar/direct_normal_radiation total_fuel_use* plant/ideal* Regards, Achim > -----Original Message----- > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r- > bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Aizaz Samuel > Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 2:10 PM > To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Subject: [esp-r] Re: Contamination modelling reveals multiple issues > > Christian, > > In my experience the problem is not with the way ESP simulates but in > results > display. I have noticed that if mass flow network results are viewed in a > random way then unrealistic values may sometimes be observed. Contaminant > simulation is based on network mass flow and therefore contaminant results > may also appear different from expected when not viewed in sequential > order. > As far as I know the bug has not been resolved. The work around is to view > all flows, concentrations etc. in order. > > Solver instability has been reported in the past for contaminant modelling, > try reducing your timestep to few minutes. > > Although it may not have been tried before flow networks, plant and > contaminants should work together - I plan to build such a model soon. > > Regards, > Aizaz > > On Friday 13 June 2008 17:55, Christian Anker Hviid wrote: > > Dear ESP-r community > > > > I am puzzled byt the contamination feature. Here are my findings: > > > > I have a model of a building where I use a combined air flow network > (AFN) > > and plant system (PLANT) with a control law that acts on the air flow > > network. I introduce a contamination model CONT with CO2. The > contamination > > model and the building have the same timestep /hour. > > > > I have included an examplar file in the results: cellular_contam_bc > which > > contains AFN and CONT. > > > > With timestep averaged output (hourly integration) > > AFN + PLANT: Flow looks fine. Flow is controlled by the ctrl law and > shows > > high value in day and low at night. AFN + CONT: Flow is wrong with > jagged > > spikes and values beyond reality. CO2 is also jagged. AFN + PLANT + > CONT: > > Flow is obviously wrong with jagged spikes. CO2 levels are also jagged > > spikes. EXAMPLAR: CO2 is fine if plotted first, flow is oscillating. > > > > Output saved at each timestep: > > AFN + PLANT : Flow is not correct, shows almost constant value. Not > > possible to plot results when a plant model is included here? AFN + > CONT: > > Flow is correct and CO2 is correct if I plot CO2 before flow. Plotting > flow > > first spoils the y-axis scale of CO2. Adjusting scale does not bring CO2 > > curve back. AFN + PLANT + CONT: Flow is not correct, almost constant > value. > > CO2 seems ok if I consider the flow results. EXAMPLAR: CO2 looks fine, > Flow > > looks nice. > > > > What am I doing wrong? Contamination works ok fine with AFN, but not > with a > > combined AFN+PLANT. Why does AFN+CONT only work when I save output at > each > > timestep? Anybody with experience in contamination modelling? Thank you > for > > your help. > > > > > > Best regards > > Christian Anker Hviid > > > > Civ. ing., Erhvervsph.d.-studerende > > DTU BYG / Alectia A/S > > Brovej, bygning 118, lok. 213 > > 2800 Kgs. Lyngby > > E-mail: cah at byg.dtu.dk > > Tlf. DTU: 45 251 886 > > Tlf. Alectia: 88 191 365 > > Mob. (privat): 40 879 749 > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From zhongqiu at cityu.edu.hk Tue Jun 17 09:01:47 2008 From: zhongqiu at cityu.edu.hk (QIU) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 16:01:47 +0800 Subject: [esp-r] esp-r couples radiance Message-ID: <0K2L00FRIKYZN4E0@smtp04.cityu.edu.hk> Dear all, I use ubuntu 8.03 and installed the "esp-r" and "radiance" packages. Esp-r and radiance work well separately. But when I perform simulation of coupled radiance casual gain control example, which locates at /opt/esru/espr/training/cg_ctl/coupling/, the computer always tells me "fatal error: radiance simulation produced no data", Could anybody tell me how to correct this error? personally I think the Radiance installtion should have no problems. thank you in advance. Qiu From holger.bertling at gmx.de Tue Jun 17 11:15:12 2008 From: holger.bertling at gmx.de (Holger Bertling) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 12:15:12 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Different Casual Gains On Weekdays Message-ID: <1213697712.6377.16.camel@d> Hello community, Does anybody know how to edit different occupancies for weekdays? The GUI doesn't seem to have such a setting and I don't know how to write it in the operation-file to get it work. Could somebody send me such an operation-file? Thank you in advance! Best regards Holger From AFerguso at NRCan.gc.ca Tue Jun 17 11:46:02 2008 From: AFerguso at NRCan.gc.ca (Ferguson, Alex) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 06:46:02 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Contamination modelling reveals multiple issues In-Reply-To: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C489918@sgartgum1.gart.intra> References: <78B14BBA2B77DF4186B975430E16648B017462@mail3.byg.dtu.dk><200806161310.12563.aizaz.a.samuel@strath.ac.uk> <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C489918@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Message-ID: Unfortunately, H3KReports does not currently report data from flow networks. Adding new data to h3kreports is trivial, provided you're already familiar with the underlying source code. I'd happily provide guidance for extending the scope of h3kreports to other developers who are interested in mass-flow-networks. - Alex -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Geissler Achim Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 2:23 AM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Re: Contamination modelling reveals multiple issues Christian, in addition to the below, are you aware of the .xml output option? I do not know to which extent the contaminant and mass and air flow variables are threaded through to this output (plant output is to some degree), but if the variables you need are, it is much quicker than using res in my opinion (if you have a "graph tool of your choice" to hand, anyway). And, as it "only" dumps all the results values, there should be no strange output depending on sequence of results analysis (which sounds scary in any case!): Quote: Selective extraction of data based on user-inputs prior to a simulation exist in the xml-output. It works as follows: H3Kreports stores selected data in memory, or (optionally) on disk. Data not specified in the input.xml file are dropped. At the end of the simulation, H3Kreports spits out an out.xml with annual and monthly summary data, and (optionally) an out.csv file with time-step-by-time-step data. If the user provides a path to a valid xslt stylesheet, bps will use the libxslt library to dynamically translate into another format (e.g. .html, .svg) A sample input.xml file follows: flat true true false summary.csv /home/aferguso/esp-r/xsl/generic_summary.xsl true false false true building/month building/time/future building/all_zones* building/zone_??/flux* building/zone_??/air_point/temperature building/zone_??/casual_gains* climate/dry_bulb_temperature climate/solar/direct_normal_radiation total_fuel_use* plant/ideal* building/month building/time/future building/all_zones* building/zone_??/flux* building/zone_??/air_point/temperature building/zone_??/casual_gains* climate/dry_bulb_temperature climate/solar/direct_normal_radiation total_fuel_use* plant/ideal* Regards, Achim > -----Original Message----- > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r- > bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Aizaz Samuel > Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 2:10 PM > To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Subject: [esp-r] Re: Contamination modelling reveals multiple issues > > Christian, > > In my experience the problem is not with the way ESP simulates but in > results display. I have noticed that if mass flow network results are > viewed in a random way then unrealistic values may sometimes be > observed. Contaminant simulation is based on network mass flow and > therefore contaminant results may also appear different from expected > when not viewed in sequential order. > As far as I know the bug has not been resolved. The work around is to > view all flows, concentrations etc. in order. > > Solver instability has been reported in the past for contaminant > modelling, try reducing your timestep to few minutes. > > Although it may not have been tried before flow networks, plant and > contaminants should work together - I plan to build such a model soon. > > Regards, > Aizaz > > On Friday 13 June 2008 17:55, Christian Anker Hviid wrote: > > Dear ESP-r community > > > > I am puzzled byt the contamination feature. Here are my findings: > > > > I have a model of a building where I use a combined air flow network > (AFN) > > and plant system (PLANT) with a control law that acts on the air > > flow network. I introduce a contamination model CONT with CO2. The > contamination > > model and the building have the same timestep /hour. > > > > I have included an examplar file in the results: cellular_contam_bc > which > > contains AFN and CONT. > > > > With timestep averaged output (hourly integration) AFN + PLANT: Flow > > looks fine. Flow is controlled by the ctrl law and > shows > > high value in day and low at night. AFN + CONT: Flow is wrong with > jagged > > spikes and values beyond reality. CO2 is also jagged. AFN + PLANT + > CONT: > > Flow is obviously wrong with jagged spikes. CO2 levels are also > > jagged spikes. EXAMPLAR: CO2 is fine if plotted first, flow is oscillating. > > > > Output saved at each timestep: > > AFN + PLANT : Flow is not correct, shows almost constant value. Not > > possible to plot results when a plant model is included here? AFN + > CONT: > > Flow is correct and CO2 is correct if I plot CO2 before flow. > > Plotting > flow > > first spoils the y-axis scale of CO2. Adjusting scale does not bring > > CO2 curve back. AFN + PLANT + CONT: Flow is not correct, almost > > constant > value. > > CO2 seems ok if I consider the flow results. EXAMPLAR: CO2 looks > > fine, > Flow > > looks nice. > > > > What am I doing wrong? Contamination works ok fine with AFN, but not > with a > > combined AFN+PLANT. Why does AFN+CONT only work when I save output > > at > each > > timestep? Anybody with experience in contamination modelling? Thank > > you > for > > your help. > > > > > > Best regards > > Christian Anker Hviid > > > > Civ. ing., Erhvervsph.d.-studerende > > DTU BYG / Alectia A/S > > Brovej, bygning 118, lok. 213 > > 2800 Kgs. Lyngby > > E-mail: cah at byg.dtu.dk > > Tlf. DTU: 45 251 886 > > Tlf. Alectia: 88 191 365 > > Mob. (privat): 40 879 749 > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From zhongqiu at cityu.edu.hk Tue Jun 17 13:42:34 2008 From: zhongqiu at cityu.edu.hk (QIU) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 20:42:34 +0800 Subject: [esp-r] actunate "Radiance Desktop Panel" ? Message-ID: <0K2L00MB7XYZATA0@smtp04.cityu.edu.hk> Dear all, I use ubuntu 8.03 and installed the "esp-r" and "radiance" packages. Esp-r and radiance work well separately. I open an examplar file, /opt/esru/espr/training/cg_ctl/coupling/coupling.cfg, (i)then click "casual gain control" --> (ii)then click edit, display "lighting control scheme" --> (iii)then click exit, display "index 1 > number of zones..."--> (iV)click continue, another "index 1 > number of zones..." pop out--> (V)click continue, display "zone list,number of menu items too small"--> (Vi)click continue, display "could not find sensor loacation and orientations"--> (Vii)click continue, "radiance desktop panel" pop up. I think where are some problems in step (iii) to (Vi), What do "index 1 > number of zones..." and "zone list,number of menu items too small" mean? and why that examplar"could not find sensor loacation and orientations"? Does anyone have experiences about this? Any answers are great help. Thank you in advance. Qiu From holger.bertling at gmx.de Tue Jun 17 11:44:12 2008 From: holger.bertling at gmx.de (Holger Bertling) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 12:44:12 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Switch Off Compiz! Message-ID: <1213699452.6377.30.camel@d> Hello Ubuntuusers, Switching off compiz (the visual effects) will get esp-r work really fine. - Mouse is working. - Res is getting really fast. Maybe this info is helping you. Best regards Holger From zhongqiu at cityu.edu.hk Wed Jun 18 08:18:24 2008 From: zhongqiu at cityu.edu.hk (QIU) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 15:18:24 +0800 Subject: [esp-r] actunate "Radiance Desktop Panel" ? Message-ID: <0K2N007M4DKBGM30@smtp04.cityu.edu.hk> Dear all, I use ubuntu 8.03 and installed the "esp-r" and "radiance" packages. Esp-r and radiance work well separately. I open an examplar file, /opt/esru/espr/training/cg_ctl/coupling/coupling.cfg, (i)then click "casual gain control" --> (ii)then click edit, display "lighting control scheme" --> (iii)then click exit, display "index 1 > number of zones..."--> (iV)click continue, another "index 1 > number of zones..." pop out--> (V)click continue, display "zone list,number of menu items too small"--> (Vi)click continue, display "could not find sensor loacation and orientations"--> (Vii)click continue, "radiance desktop panel" pop up. I think where are some problems in step (iii) to (Vi), What do "index 1 > number of zones..." and "zone list,number of menu items too small" mean? and why that examplar"could not find sensor loacation and orientations"? Does anyone have experiences about this? Any answers are great help. Thank you in advance. Qiu From zhongqiu at cityu.edu.hk Wed Jun 18 08:18:32 2008 From: zhongqiu at cityu.edu.hk (QIU) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 15:18:32 +0800 Subject: [esp-r] esp-r couples radiance Message-ID: <0K2N007MTDKJGM30@smtp04.cityu.edu.hk> Dear all, I use ubuntu 8.03 and installed the "esp-r" and "radiance" packages. Esp-r and radiance work well separately. But when I perform simulation of coupled radiance casual gain control example, which locates at /opt/esru/espr/training/cg_ctl/coupling/, the computer always tells me "fatal error: radiance simulation produced no data", Could anybody tell me how to correct this error? personally I think the Radiance installtion should have no problems. thank you in advance. Qiu From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Wed Jun 18 08:37:37 2008 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 08:37:37 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: actunate "Radiance Desktop Panel" ? References: <0K2N007M4DKBGM30@smtp04.cityu.edu.hk> Message-ID: A user asked about coupling of Radiance and ESP-r during a simulation and gave a specific example model... ::I use ubuntu 8.03 and installed the "esp-r" and "radiance" packages. Esp-r and radiance work well separately. ::I open an examplar file, /opt/esru/espr/training/cg_ctl/coupling/coupling.cfg, ::(i)then click "casual gain control" --> ::(ii)then click edit, display "lighting control scheme" --> ::(iii)then click exit, display "index 1 > number of zones..."--> ::(iV)click continue, another "index 1 > number of zones..." pop out--> ::(V)click continue, display "zone list,number of menu items too small"--> ::(Vi)click continue, display "could not find sensor loacation and orientations"--> ::(Vii)click continue, "radiance desktop panel" pop up. ::I think where are some problems in step (iii) to (Vi), ::What do "index 1 > number of zones..." and "zone list,number of menu items too small" mean? and why that examplar"could not find sensor loacation and orientations"? It is likely that the example model is out of date. This is a facility that was actively working several years ago but there are only a few people that used this and it is possible that the facility is unstable and requires to be debugged. There are two possible ways forward - to use a different (newer) model to see if the issue was the model and if that give problems to locate someone in the community who knows Radiance daylight coefficients well enough to provide guidance for debuging the code. There are other techniques for daylight control in ESP-r that do not require the use of Radiance and it might be necessary to use those until such time as the daylight coefficient method is checked out. Regards, Jon Hand From aizaz.a.samuel at strath.ac.uk Wed Jun 18 10:29:01 2008 From: aizaz.a.samuel at strath.ac.uk (Aizaz Samuel) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 10:29:01 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Different Casual Gains On Weekdays In-Reply-To: <1213697712.6377.16.camel@d> References: <1213697712.6377.16.camel@d> Message-ID: <200806181029.01955.aizaz.a.samuel@strath.ac.uk> Holger, Go to model context menu > calendar and create new day types (e.g. Monday, Tuesday and so on). You will be asked if operations files should be updated; choose yes. Next link day types to actual days (this is still a tedious process in that you have to link each of 365 days that you want changed individually). Now you may go to individual zone based operations files and add operations data for day types that you have created. Note that day types are not available for controls yet but will soon be. Regards, AIzaz On Tuesday 17 June 2008 11:15, Holger Bertling wrote: > Hello community, > > Does anybody know how to edit > different occupancies for weekdays? > The GUI doesn't seem to have such a setting > and I don't know > how to write it in the operation-file > to get it work. > > Could somebody send me such an operation-file? > > Thank you in advance! > > Best regards > Holger > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From georgios at esru.strath.ac.uk Wed Jun 18 11:02:25 2008 From: georgios at esru.strath.ac.uk (Georgios Kokogiannakis) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 11:02:25 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Different Casual Gains On Weekdays In-Reply-To: <200806181029.01955.aizaz.a.samuel@strath.ac.uk> References: <1213697712.6377.16.camel@d> <200806181029.01955.aizaz.a.samuel@strath.ac.uk> Message-ID: <200806181102.26072.georgios@esru.strath.ac.uk> Hi Holger, what Aizaz suggests is only available throught the ESP-r development branch. You will have to use the subversion program to obtain this (available at https://esp-r.net/espr/esp-r/branches/development_branch). This is not available in the latest released version. You can however use the timestep temporal file (i.e. tdf) for this purpose. You can find it in the "model context" menu and inside the "impose measured data" option. I am not fully sure if this facility works properly in windows and it is a bit tricky to set it up properly. It works well though when you get it right. You can also import data from external csv files. I will copy an example that was given in this list some time ago for the number of data you need in that file: if you want to simulate 4 days and you have 2 start-up days, you need: 4*24+2*24+1*24=168 data in your file. You will need to make sure that the simulation timestep corresponds to the time interval in the tdf file. This is not a barrier anymore for some of the development versions of ESP-r. It is probably included in the develpment branch (certainly in the prj_dev branch) together with other improvements of this facility. Let me know if you do not manage to set this up and I will try to send you an example. Regards, Georgios On Wednesday 18 June 2008 10:29, Aizaz Samuel wrote: > Holger, > > Go to model context menu > calendar and create new day types (e.g. Monday, > Tuesday and so on). You will be asked if operations files should be > updated; choose yes. Next link day types to actual days (this is still a > tedious process in that you have to link each of 365 days that you want > changed individually). > Now you may go to individual zone based operations files and add operations > data for day types that you have created. > > Note that day types are not available for controls yet but will soon be. > > Regards, > AIzaz > > On Tuesday 17 June 2008 11:15, Holger Bertling wrote: > > Hello community, > > > > Does anybody know how to edit > > different occupancies for weekdays? > > The GUI doesn't seem to have such a setting > > and I don't know > > how to write it in the operation-file > > to get it work. > > > > Could somebody send me such an operation-file? > > > > Thank you in advance! > > > > Best regards > > Holger > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > esp-r mailing list > > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r -- Energy Systems Research Unit (ESRU) Department of Mechanical Engineering University of Strathclyde From holger.bertling at gmx.de Wed Jun 18 13:09:40 2008 From: holger.bertling at gmx.de (Holger Bertling) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 14:09:40 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Different Casual Gains On Weekdays In-Reply-To: <200806181102.26072.georgios@esru.strath.ac.uk> References: <1213697712.6377.16.camel@d> <200806181029.01955.aizaz.a.samuel@strath.ac.uk> <200806181102.26072.georgios@esru.strath.ac.uk> Message-ID: <1213790980.6395.27.camel@d> Thanks a lot, but both seems too much for me. First of all I'm new with esp-r and i think i couldn't see the difference between a bug and my own faults using the development branch. The other way is just too much editing. When I got it right, I would have to edit about 8400 entries for one year? And I planned to simulate 50 years for three different climate scenarios. I think I will simplify the occupancy... Thank you anyway, Holger Am Mittwoch, den 18.06.2008, 11:02 +0100 schrieb Georgios Kokogiannakis: > Hi Holger, > > what Aizaz suggests is only available throught the ESP-r development branch. > You will have to use the subversion program to obtain this (available at > https://esp-r.net/espr/esp-r/branches/development_branch). > > This is not available in the latest released version. You can however use the > timestep temporal file (i.e. tdf) for this purpose. You can find it in the > "model context" menu and inside the "impose measured data" option. > I am not fully sure if this facility works properly in windows and it is a bit > tricky to set it up properly. It works well though when you get it right. > You can also import data from external csv files. > I will copy an example that was given in this list some time ago for the > number of data you need in that file: > if you want to simulate 4 days and you have 2 start-up days, you > need: 4*24+2*24+1*24=168 data in your file. > > You will need to make sure that the simulation timestep corresponds to the > time interval in the tdf file. This is not a barrier anymore for some of the > development versions of ESP-r. It is probably included in the develpment > branch (certainly in the prj_dev branch) together with other improvements of > this facility. > > Let me know if you do not manage to set this up and I will try to send you an > example. > > Regards, > Georgios > > > > > > > > On Wednesday 18 June 2008 10:29, Aizaz Samuel wrote: > > Holger, > > > > Go to model context menu > calendar and create new day types (e.g. Monday, > > Tuesday and so on). You will be asked if operations files should be > > updated; choose yes. Next link day types to actual days (this is still a > > tedious process in that you have to link each of 365 days that you want > > changed individually). > > Now you may go to individual zone based operations files and add operations > > data for day types that you have created. > > > > Note that day types are not available for controls yet but will soon be. > > > > Regards, > > AIzaz > > > > On Tuesday 17 June 2008 11:15, Holger Bertling wrote: > > > Hello community, > > > > > > Does anybody know how to edit > > > different occupancies for weekdays? > > > The GUI doesn't seem to have such a setting > > > and I don't know > > > how to write it in the operation-file > > > to get it work. > > > > > > Could somebody send me such an operation-file? > > > > > > Thank you in advance! > > > > > > Best regards > > > Holger > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > esp-r mailing list > > > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > > > > _______________________________________________ > > esp-r mailing list > > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > From yg.yohanis at ulster.ac.uk Wed Jun 18 12:32:04 2008 From: yg.yohanis at ulster.ac.uk (YG Yohanis) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 12:32:04 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] ESP Building Description Message-ID: <004201c8d136$eebd9460$2e8a3dc1@YGYohanis4B11> Dear Sir/Madam I would be grateful if you could contact me if you can help with the following: I am looking for a building (3 or more floors, typical UK construction) description file in ESP from which I can obtain building heating and cooling loads for 8760 hours for Northern Ireland weather conditions. The file may or may not include hot water provision. Kind regards Yohanis Professor Y G Yohanis BSc MSc PhD CEng FCIBSE FIMechE FEI Professor of Building Services Engineering School of the Built Environment University of Ulster Shore Road, Newtownabbey, BT37 0QB, Northern Ireland Tel.: +442890368025 Fax +442890368256 E-mail: yg.yohanis at ulster.ac.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080618/173f6f7b/attachment.html From azzarognu at gmail.com Wed Jun 18 16:28:14 2008 From: azzarognu at gmail.com (F. G. Azzaro) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 16:28:14 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Weather data time intervals Message-ID: <81f674a20806180828n4f07d5a2m145c1b097b3fede1@mail.gmail.com> Dear ESP-r users Is it possible to run a simulation with weather data which has time intervals of 10 minutes? Whilst weather parameters may not change that much every 10 minutes we are interested to see how the building & its systems responds to small changes. We have recorded data from a building in Dublin at 10 minute intervals can anyone tell us how we convert this to the esp-r climate file? e.g. is it possible to prepare as a csv or txt file then simply import into esp-r climate module? Any advice and guidance would be great - many thanks....... Regards, Francesco From leen.peeters at mech.kuleuven.be Wed Jun 18 21:39:40 2008 From: leen.peeters at mech.kuleuven.be (Leen Peeters) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 22:39:40 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] start up calculation Message-ID: <001401c8d183$6f183ec0$7a1e480a@tme05001> Hi, I implemented a start up calculation based on a formula given by Fraisse and Virgone (Applied Energy, 62, 1999). they calculate the maximum achievabe temperature rise in steady state and added the effects of dynamics to estimate the temperature that will be achieved in reality. Comparing this to what is to be reached at a given moment, they deciede to either turn on the heating or redo the calculation the next timestep. This max temperature is calculated based on the external temperature plus the ratio of the maximal available power divided by a loss coefficient in Watts per K. Within ESP-r, The (BB3-BB2*Q)/BB1 equation can be used to calculate the next timestep temperature when injecting a heat flux Q. I wondered whether the maximum achievable temperature at for example 4 timesteps from now could be calculated based on this BB,BB2, BB3 equation using 4*Q instead of Q Could anyone help me out on this one? Thanks! Leen Peeters University of Leuven Postbox: 02421 APPLIED MECHANICS AND ENERGY CONVERSION office number 02.050 Celestijnenlaan 300A 3001 Heverlee Belgium Phone +32-16-322.518 Disclaimer: http://www.kuleuven.be/cwis/email_disclaimer.htm -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080618/bd95f5dd/attachment.html From georgios at esru.strath.ac.uk Thu Jun 19 17:04:06 2008 From: georgios at esru.strath.ac.uk (Georgios Kokogiannakis) Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 17:04:06 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Weather data time intervals In-Reply-To: <81f674a20806180828n4f07d5a2m145c1b097b3fede1@mail.gmail.com> References: <81f674a20806180828n4f07d5a2m145c1b097b3fede1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200806191704.06467.georgios@esru.strath.ac.uk> Hi Francesco, the answer to your question(s) is yes. This can be done again through the temporal definition file (model context-> impose measured data). You can select the "Climate data item" and after defining the item select to import column data ("Set display period or import raw data" -> "Column data"). This has been successfully applied many times in the past but all the steps involved to define the inputs are sometimes confusing. Regards, Georgios On Wednesday 18 June 2008 16:28, F. G. Azzaro wrote: > Dear ESP-r users > > Is it possible to run a simulation with weather data which has time > intervals of 10 minutes? > > Whilst weather parameters may not change that much every 10 minutes we > are interested to see how the building & its systems responds to small > changes. We have recorded data from a building in Dublin at 10 > minute intervals can anyone tell us how we convert this to the esp-r > climate file? e.g. is it possible to prepare as a csv or txt file > then simply import into esp-r climate module? Any advice and guidance > would be great - many thanks....... > > Regards, > > Francesco > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r -- Energy Systems Research Unit (ESRU) Department of Mechanical Engineering University of Strathclyde From manzan at units.it Mon Jun 23 15:41:20 2008 From: manzan at units.it (Marco Manzan) Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 16:41:20 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] gshp modeling Message-ID: <200806231641.20608.manzan@units.it> dear all I'm trying to model a vertical borehole heat exchanger for ground source heat pumps, I know the model is available in esp-r since it has been implemented for the esp-r/HOT-3000 but I couldn't find any example to use it, is it available any documentation describing the steps required to setup such a problem? I found the paper Julia Purdy, Andrew Morrison, Ground-source heat pump simulation within a whole-building analysis, E, Eighth International IBPSA Conference, Eindhoven, Netherlands August 11-14, 2003 but despite this paper describe the implementation of the model in esp-r it is not sufficient to set up a suitable model. Thanks in advance Marco -- _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ |Marco Manzan Email: manzan at units.it | |Tel: (+39) 040 5583506 Fax : (+39) 040 572033 | |Dipartimento di Ingegneria Navale, del Mare e per l'Ambiente | |Universita' degli Studi di Trieste | |piazzale Europa 1, 34127 TRIESTE | |_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _| From manzan at units.it Mon Jun 23 22:53:02 2008 From: manzan at units.it (Marco Manzan) Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 23:53:02 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: gshp modeling In-Reply-To: References: <200806231641.20608.manzan@units.it> Message-ID: <200806232353.02660.manzan@units.it> Alle luned? 23 giugno 2008, Ferguson, Alex ha scritto: > Hi Marco, > > Unfortunately, the HVAC are not currently implemented in the prj > interface; to use them you must create the input files manually. I've > attached some documents indicating the changes you'll need to make. > > Paul: Can we place these on the ESRU website? > > Alex Ferguson > Sustainable Buildings and Communities (Housing Group) > CANMET Energy Technology Centre > Natural Resources Canada > P:+1 613 995 3294 > F:+1 613 996 9909 > Alex.Ferguson at nrcan.gc.ca > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk > [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Marco Manzan > Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 10:41 AM > To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Subject: [esp-r] gshp modeling > > dear all > > I'm trying to model a vertical borehole heat exchanger for ground source > heat pumps, I know the model is available in esp-r since it has been > implemented for the esp-r/HOT-3000 but I couldn't find any example to > use it, is it available any documentation describing the steps required > to setup such a problem? > > I found the paper > > Julia Purdy, Andrew Morrison, Ground-source heat pump simulation within > a whole-building analysis, E, Eighth International IBPSA Conference, > Eindhoven, Netherlands August 11-14, 2003 > > but despite this paper describe the implementation of the model in esp-r > it is not sufficient to set up a suitable model. > > > Thanks in advance > > Marco hi Alex thank you very much for your kind answer, the documentation is very interesting and this will sure help me setting up the model. It is very important for me to be able to simulate a GSHP since they are gaining a lot of interest here in Italy, and I'm working on the coupling of building simulation codes with genetic optimization algorithms. About the lack of the prj interface I'm not in trouble, "v"i will be useful thank you again Marco -- _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ |Marco Manzan Email: manzan at units.it | |Tel: (+39) 040 5583506 Fax : (+39) 040 572033 | |Dipartimento di Ingegneria Navale, del Mare e per l'Ambiente | |Universita' degli Studi di Trieste | |piazzale Europa 1, 34127 TRIESTE | |_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _| From holger.bertling at gmx.de Thu Jun 26 11:18:51 2008 From: holger.bertling at gmx.de (Holger Bertling) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 12:18:51 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Scripting Message-ID: <1214475531.6399.14.camel@d> Hello ESP-r users, I would like to automate my working process with ESP-r. So I started to write scripts. Some things work good, some don't. (I'm new with scripting.) And now my questions: Is there a tutorial or a guide for ESP-r scripting? Or is there maybe a pool, where people could upload their scripts and download others? Would you send me some cool scripts of yourself, so I can read and learn from them? That would be really great. Thanks in advance. Yours Holger From aizaz.a.samuel at strath.ac.uk Thu Jun 26 14:17:14 2008 From: aizaz.a.samuel at strath.ac.uk (Aizaz Samuel) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 14:17:14 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Scripting In-Reply-To: <1214475531.6399.14.camel@d> References: <1214475531.6399.14.camel@d> Message-ID: <200806261417.15065.aizaz.a.samuel@strath.ac.uk> You will find scripts to run CFD benchmark models in the folder src/validation/benchmark/CFD/Models -Aizaz On Thursday 26 June 2008 11:18, Holger Bertling wrote: > Hello ESP-r users, > > I would like to automate my working process with ESP-r. > > So I started to write scripts. > Some things work good, some don't. > (I'm new with scripting.) > > And now my questions: > Is there a tutorial or a guide for ESP-r scripting? > Or is there maybe a pool, > where people could upload their scripts and download others? > Would you send me some cool scripts of yourself, > so I can read and learn from them? > > That would be really great. > Thanks in advance. > > Yours > Holger > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From holger.bertling at gmx.de Thu Jun 26 14:11:18 2008 From: holger.bertling at gmx.de (Holger Bertling) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 15:11:18 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Scripting In-Reply-To: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C4AECE7@sgartgum1.gart.intra> References: <1214475531.6399.14.camel@d> <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C4AECE7@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Message-ID: <1214485878.6399.31.camel@d> Hi Achim, I'm student of architecture at the University of Stuttgart. For my diploma project "Building Refurbishment In The Context Of The Climate Change" I want to use ESP-r with future Climate-Data from the "Bundesamt f?r Klimaforschung" to look what will happen with our buildings in the Future. Best regards, Holger Am Donnerstag, den 26.06.2008, 14:42 +0200 schrieb Geissler Achim: > Dear Holger, > generally, I could send you a few scripts I have. However, beforehand I would like to know your affiliation. "gmx" does not give me this information. > Regards, > Achim > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r- > > bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Holger Bertling > > Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 12:19 PM > > To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > Subject: [esp-r] Scripting > > > > Hello ESP-r users, > > > > I would like to automate my working process with ESP-r. > > > > So I started to write scripts. > > Some things work good, some don't. > > (I'm new with scripting.) > > > > And now my questions: > > Is there a tutorial or a guide for ESP-r scripting? > > Or is there maybe a pool, > > where people could upload their scripts and download others? > > Would you send me some cool scripts of yourself, > > so I can read and learn from them? > > > > That would be really great. > > Thanks in advance. > > > > Yours > > Holger > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > esp-r mailing list > > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From zhongqiu at cityu.edu.hk Fri Jul 4 07:33:02 2008 From: zhongqiu at cityu.edu.hk (QIU) Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2008 14:33:02 +0800 Subject: [esp-r] esp-r couples radiance Message-ID: <0K3G00IAHY729NI0@smtp04.cityu.edu.hk> Dear all, when I perform "calculate daylit_coefficient", the computer display"unable free error channel". what does it mean? thank you in advance. Qiu From zhongqiu at cityu.edu.hk Sun Jul 6 10:21:34 2008 From: zhongqiu at cityu.edu.hk (QIU) Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2008 17:21:34 +0800 Subject: [esp-r] esp-r couples radiance Message-ID: <0K3K00LJMVBYRNB0@smtp04.cityu.edu.hk> Dear all, There are a few lines as follows in the facade_5.cfg file, which locates in /opt/esru/espr/training/cg_ctl/daylit_coef/cfg/, *tdf dec94.tdf # tdf item id, item type, diff-5 DIFHSLT ALL glob-5 GLOHSLT ALL * end tdf what function the above lines has? thank you in advance. Qiu From zhongqiu at cityu.edu.hk Sun Jul 6 10:29:32 2008 From: zhongqiu at cityu.edu.hk (QIU) Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2008 17:29:32 +0800 Subject: [esp-r] Which file to calculate the irradiance of the photocell location? Message-ID: <0K3K00L7VVP8RNC0@smtp04.cityu.edu.hk> Dear all, If I want to try esp-r direct couple radiance, that is timestep in timestep mode, then in source code of ESP-r, Which file is to calculate the irradiance of the photocell location? thank you for your time. ZZ From zhongqiu at cityu.edu.hk Sun Jul 6 10:47:13 2008 From: zhongqiu at cityu.edu.hk (QIU) Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2008 17:47:13 +0800 Subject: [esp-r] ESP-r couples radiance Message-ID: <0K3K00LMNWIPRND0@smtp04.cityu.edu.hk> Dear all, I get a groupe of "daylight coefficient" data through ESP-r coupling radiance, attached with this email. And could anyone tell if they would be right or not? thank you for your time. regards, ZZ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: fac_zone_c1 (copy).cgc Type: application/octet-stream Size: 9206 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080706/63cb3140/attachment.obj From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Mon Jul 7 08:18:09 2008 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 08:18:09 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: esp-r couples radiance References: <0K3K00LJMVBYRNB0@smtp04.cityu.edu.hk> Message-ID: A recent question about short timestep data and radiance coupling... ::There are a few lines as follows in the facade_5.cfg file, which locates in ::/opt/esru/espr/training/cg_ctl/daylit_coef/cfg/, ::*tdf dec94.tdf ::# tdf item id, item type, ::diff-5 DIFHSLT ALL ::glob-5 GLOHSLT ALL ::* end tdf ::what function the above lines has? The above lines identify that there is short frequency (5 minute) data associated with the model, the data is held in a file named dec94.tdf And two items in dec94.tdf are used by the model. diff-5 which is diffuse horizontal solar radiation, and it is associated with all zones. glob-5 is global horizontal radiation and it is associated with all zones. This tells ESP-r when it runs a simulation to take the diffuse horizontal and global horizontal data from this file rather than from the normal climate file. -Jon Hand _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Mon Jul 7 08:23:09 2008 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 08:23:09 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Which file to calculate the irradiance of the photocelllocation? References: <0K3K00L7VVP8RNC0@smtp04.cityu.edu.hk> Message-ID: Another ESP-r and radiance question. ::If I want to try esp-r direct couple radiance, that is timestep in timestep mode, then in source code of ::ESP-r, Which file is to calculate the irradiance of the photocell location? The frequency timestep of the simulation should match the tdf file if that type of file is included in the model. If there is no tdf file in the model then you can choose any timestep. In direct coupling, radiance is called once per timestep. Irradiance on the photocell is calculated by Radiance and the ESP-r simulator will attempt to read the calculated value from Radiance at each timestep. -Jon Hand From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Mon Jul 7 08:38:43 2008 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 08:38:43 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: esp-r couples radiance References: <0K3G00IAHY729NI0@smtp04.cityu.edu.hk> Message-ID: A question about a warning message... ::when I perform "calculate daylit_coefficient", the computer display"unable free error channel". what does it mean? The source code attempted to open a file with a file unit zero which is the same unit as is used to report system errors. It indicates that the variable which defines the file unit was not set to a correct value. Usually this type of message does not indicate a serious problem if the application continues to function. -Jon Hand From zhongqiu at cityu.edu.hk Mon Jul 7 09:23:23 2008 From: zhongqiu at cityu.edu.hk (QIU) Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2008 16:23:23 +0800 Subject: [esp-r] Which file to calculate the irradiance of the photocell location? Message-ID: <0K3M00B6ZNB0HHJ0@smtp04.cityu.edu.hk> Dear all, Could you pls tell, how to output the illuminance of the photocell location after esp-r coupling radiance simulation? thank you. ZZ From zhongqiu at cityu.edu.hk Mon Jul 7 12:00:27 2008 From: zhongqiu at cityu.edu.hk (QIU) Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2008 19:00:27 +0800 Subject: [esp-r] define blind control in ESP-r 11.5? Message-ID: <0K3M00GI3UKRO720@smtp04.cityu.edu.hk> Dear all, How to define blind control in ESP-r 11.5? I find no menu or any entry to specify blind control in ESP-r 11.5? thank you. Warm regards, ZZ From Monika.Hall at josef-gartner.ch Mon Jul 7 12:48:33 2008 From: Monika.Hall at josef-gartner.ch (Hall Monika) Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 13:48:33 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: define blind control in ESP-r 11.5? References: <0K3M00GI3UKRO720@smtp04.cityu.edu.hk> Message-ID: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C4AF30A@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Dear Qiu, You can change the optical data of your window (blind up/down) in the tmc-file. Regards Monika -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of QIU Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 1:00 PM To: esp-r Subject: [esp-r] define blind control in ESP-r 11.5? Dear all, How to define blind control in ESP-r 11.5? I find no menu or any entry to specify blind control in ESP-r 11.5? thank you. Warm regards, ZZ _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From uemit.esiyok at wsgreentechnologies.com Tue Jul 8 08:15:04 2008 From: uemit.esiyok at wsgreentechnologies.com (Esiyok, Uemit) Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 09:15:04 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] amorphous shape building Message-ID: <4B44F71835E44648963F65EEA6A10D2A03153E01@owa.wernersobek.com> Dear All, I am a beginner of Esp-r, my question is that can Esp-r simulate an amorphous shape building? or just rectangle? Regards ?mit -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080708/66776856/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Tue Jul 8 09:48:01 2008 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 09:48:01 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: amorphous shape building References: <4B44F71835E44648963F65EEA6A10D2A03153E01@owa.wernersobek.com> Message-ID: Building shapes... ::I am a beginner of Esp-r, my question is that can Esp-r simulate an amorphous shape building? or just rectangle? Quick answer is.... zones are created from polygons (3-24 edges each) and although each surface must be flat you can combine surfaces to approximate almost any form of enclosure as long as each zone is fully bounded by surfaces. To get an idea - download the ESP-r cookbook and look at the examples given. Also there are dozens of example models which can give an idea of the possible shapes. Regards, Jon Hand From gialloneroverde at gmail.com Thu Jul 10 12:10:46 2008 From: gialloneroverde at gmail.com (giulio benincasa) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 13:10:46 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Value different for flux ventilation Message-ID: <67666d10807100410p8ea6424kcdaab38fa7ec6946@mail.gmail.com> Hi all, I dont able to explain why for the model tha i have created if I used edit scheduled air flow "for my office" / zone flux for ventilation / has a tot value while when I used airflow network for define a network that not included my office but other part of model (so scheduled air flow for my office hold steady) then zone flux for ventilation has a ten times value !!!!! Thank you, in advance Best regards Giulio B. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080710/4e91f434/attachment.html From aizaz.a.samuel at strath.ac.uk Thu Jul 10 11:29:51 2008 From: aizaz.a.samuel at strath.ac.uk (Aizaz Samuel) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 11:29:51 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Value different for flux ventilation In-Reply-To: <67666d10807100410p8ea6424kcdaab38fa7ec6946@mail.gmail.com> References: <67666d10807100410p8ea6424kcdaab38fa7ec6946@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200807101129.51494.aizaz.a.samuel@strath.ac.uk> Zone operations air flows are overwritten if there is a flow network (with or without that zone). if you want a constant ventilation for zone office include it in the flow network but with a constant volume flow to (and away from) the zone. -Aizaz On Thursday 10 July 2008 12:10, giulio benincasa wrote: > Hi all, > > I dont able to explain why for the model tha i have created > > if I used edit scheduled air flow "for my office" > > / zone flux for ventilation / has a tot value > > while when I used airflow network for define a network that not included my > office but other part of model > > (so scheduled air flow for my office hold steady) > > then zone flux for ventilation has a ten times value !!!!! > > Thank you, in advance > Best regards Giulio B. -- Dr Aizaz A Samuel Research Fellow Department of Mechanical Engineering University of Strathclyde M324 James Weir Building 75 Montrose Street Glasgow, UK G1 1XJ T:+44 141 548 5765 F:+44 141 552 5105 From gialloneroverde at gmail.com Fri Jul 11 09:21:29 2008 From: gialloneroverde at gmail.com (giulio benincasa) Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 10:21:29 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Info on Results Analysis Message-ID: <67666d10807110121l2bb57b30gb93bc1d650f3c282@mail.gmail.com> Hi all, in module Results Analysis / Graph /Solar process/ Solar entering from outside is global radiation entering ? Thank you, in advance Best regards Giulio B. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080711/08bc5d36/attachment.html From zhongqiu at cityu.edu.hk Fri Jul 11 12:52:46 2008 From: zhongqiu at cityu.edu.hk (QIU) Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 19:52:46 +0800 Subject: [esp-r] Too big illuminance of indoor photocell location, >40000 lux? Message-ID: <0K3U00M1RBO0KS00@smtp04.cityu.edu.hk> Dear all, Through "daylight coefficient" approach, I get the illuminance of an indoor photocell location, but the illuminance is more than 40000 lux. I think it must be much more intense than reality. Does anybody have any ideas about why that? And how to cut down the illuminance? thank you. Warm regards, ZZ From 3nes at queensu.ca Fri Jul 11 17:01:54 2008 From: 3nes at queensu.ca (Evan Sterling) Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 12:01:54 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] Perplexing U-values with low-e glass Message-ID: <5cd28790807110901o25652da1sae490080958ca40b@mail.gmail.com> I am modelling some triple-glazed windows, by copying the default double-glazed units provided in the database and adding an extra air gap and pane (see below for details). But when I substitute low-e glass for plate glass, the U-value calculated automatically actually rises somewhat, when I would expect it to drop. Is there something I'm missing here? *Normal glass* Layer|Prim|Thick |Conduc-|Density|Specif|IR |Solr|Diffu| R |Descr |db |(mm) |tivity | |heat |emis|abs |resis|m^2K/W Ext 242 6.0 0.760 2710. 837. 0.83 0.05 19200. 0.01 plate glass : Plate glass with placeholder s 2 0 12.0 0.000 0. 0. 0.99 0.99 1. 0.17 air 0.17 0.17 0.17 3 242 6.0 0.760 2710. 837. 0.83 0.05 19200. 0.01 plate glass : Plate glass with placeholder s 4 0 12.0 0.000 0. 0. 0.99 0.99 1. 0.17 air 0.17 0.17 0.17 Int 242 6.0 0.760 2710. 837. 0.83 0.05 19200. 0.01 plate glass : Plate glass with placeholder s ISO 6946 U values (horiz/upward/downward heat flow)= *1.874 1.985 1.743*(partition) 1.603 *Low-E glass* Layer|Prim|Thick |Conduc-|Density|Specif|IR |Solr|Diffu| R |Descr |db |(mm) |tivity | |heat |emis|abs |resis|m^2K/W Ext 246 6.0 1.050 2500. 750. 0.05 0.06 19200. 0.01 low_e glass : 6mm CF Low_e glass with placeh 2 0 12.0 0.000 0. 0. 0.99 0.99 1. 0.17 air 0.17 0.17 0.17 3 246 6.0 1.050 2500. 750. 0.05 0.06 19200. 0.01 low_e glass : 6mm CF Low_e glass with placeh 4 0 12.0 0.000 0. 0. 0.99 0.99 1. 0.17 air 0.17 0.17 0.17 Int 246 6.0 1.050 2500. 750. 0.05 0.06 19200. 0.01 low_e glass : 6mm CF Low_e glass with placeh ISO 6946 U values (horiz/upward/downward heat flow)= *1.897 2.011 1.763*(partition) 1.620 Thanks, Evan Sterling Mathematics & Engineering Queen's University -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080711/2bde02bb/attachment.html From Denis.Bourgeois at arc.ulaval.ca Fri Jul 11 22:22:22 2008 From: Denis.Bourgeois at arc.ulaval.ca (Denis J. Bourgeois) Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 17:22:22 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] =?iso-8859-1?q?RE=A0=3A___Perplexing_U-values_with_low-e_glass?= References: <5cd28790807110901o25652da1sae490080958ca40b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080711/8cd1f71f/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Sat Jul 12 03:03:33 2008 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 03:03:33 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Perplexing U-values with low-e glass References: <5cd28790807110901o25652da1sae490080958ca40b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: The low-e of the glass must be represented by altering the air gap resistance. The surface properties of the glass are not taken into account in the U value report. Have a look at other transparent constructions which include low-e glass and you will see the pattern. -Jon -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk on behalf of Evan Sterling Sent: Fri 7/11/2008 5:01 PM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Perplexing U-values with low-e glass I am modelling some triple-glazed windows, by copying the default double-glazed units provided in the database and adding an extra air gap and pane (see below for details). But when I substitute low-e glass for plate glass, the U-value calculated automatically actually rises somewhat, when I would expect it to drop. Is there something I'm missing here? *Normal glass* Layer|Prim|Thick |Conduc-|Density|Specif|IR |Solr|Diffu| R |Descr |db |(mm) |tivity | |heat |emis|abs |resis|m^2K/W Ext 242 6.0 0.760 2710. 837. 0.83 0.05 19200. 0.01 plate glass : Plate glass with placeholder s 2 0 12.0 0.000 0. 0. 0.99 0.99 1. 0.17 air 0.17 0.17 0.17 3 242 6.0 0.760 2710. 837. 0.83 0.05 19200. 0.01 plate glass : Plate glass with placeholder s 4 0 12.0 0.000 0. 0. 0.99 0.99 1. 0.17 air 0.17 0.17 0.17 Int 242 6.0 0.760 2710. 837. 0.83 0.05 19200. 0.01 plate glass : Plate glass with placeholder s ISO 6946 U values (horiz/upward/downward heat flow)= *1.874 1.985 1.743*(partition) 1.603 *Low-E glass* Layer|Prim|Thick |Conduc-|Density|Specif|IR |Solr|Diffu| R |Descr |db |(mm) |tivity | |heat |emis|abs |resis|m^2K/W Ext 246 6.0 1.050 2500. 750. 0.05 0.06 19200. 0.01 low_e glass : 6mm CF Low_e glass with placeh 2 0 12.0 0.000 0. 0. 0.99 0.99 1. 0.17 air 0.17 0.17 0.17 3 246 6.0 1.050 2500. 750. 0.05 0.06 19200. 0.01 low_e glass : 6mm CF Low_e glass with placeh 4 0 12.0 0.000 0. 0. 0.99 0.99 1. 0.17 air 0.17 0.17 0.17 Int 246 6.0 1.050 2500. 750. 0.05 0.06 19200. 0.01 low_e glass : 6mm CF Low_e glass with placeh ISO 6946 U values (horiz/upward/downward heat flow)= *1.897 2.011 1.763*(partition) 1.620 Thanks, Evan Sterling Mathematics & Engineering Queen's University From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Sat Jul 12 03:38:15 2008 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 03:38:15 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Info on Results Analysis References: <67666d10807110121l2bb57b30gb93bc1d650f3c282@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: A recent question... ::In module Results Analysis / Graph /Solar process/ ::Solar entering from outside is global radiation entering ? This is the solar band radiation (direct and diffuse) that has passed through transparent surfaces which are facing outside. From Leen.Peeters at mech.kuleuven.be Sun Jul 13 15:32:35 2008 From: Leen.Peeters at mech.kuleuven.be (Leen Peeters) Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 16:32:35 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] difference res and calculated QFUT Message-ID: <1215959555.487a12034fbe2@webmail1.kuleuven.be> Dear all, if I calculate the total Qfut in the zone controller using the statement Total=Total+(QFUT/(NTSTEP*1000)) where NTSTEP=the number of calculations per hour, then this differs significantly from the results shown by res (in kWhr). The latter seem more realistic. However, the value of Qfut as I calculate it is passed to matsv correctly... Has anyone an idea where I have to solve it or what is wrong with my formula? thanks! Disclaimer: http://www.kuleuven.be/cwis/email_disclaimer.htm From Leen.Peeters at mech.kuleuven.be Sun Jul 13 16:23:54 2008 From: Leen.Peeters at mech.kuleuven.be (Leen Peeters) Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 17:23:54 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: difference res and calculated QFUT In-Reply-To: <1215959555.487a12034fbe2@webmail1.kuleuven.be> References: <1215959555.487a12034fbe2@webmail1.kuleuven.be> Message-ID: <1215962634.487a1e0a6ded7@webmail1.kuleuven.be> I got it!!! i should not take into account 20 start up days if I look at the results of 1 week ;-0 Quoting Leen Peeters : > > > Dear all, > > if I calculate the total Qfut in the zone controller using the > statement > > Total=Total+(QFUT/(NTSTEP*1000)) > > where NTSTEP=the number of calculations per hour, then this differs > significantly from the results shown by res (in kWhr). The latter > seem > more realistic. > > However, the value of Qfut as I calculate it is passed to matsv > correctly... > > Has anyone an idea where I have to solve it or what is wrong with my > formula? > > thanks! > > Disclaimer: http://www.kuleuven.be/cwis/email_disclaimer.htm > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > Disclaimer: http://www.kuleuven.be/cwis/email_disclaimer.htm From paul at esru.strath.ac.uk Mon Jul 14 10:47:34 2008 From: paul at esru.strath.ac.uk (Paul Strachan) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 10:47:34 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] ESP-r Installation on OS 10.5 Message-ID: <487B20B6.5070703@esru.strath.ac.uk> Post from Felipe Dur?n --------------------- Dear all, I am trying to instal ESP-r 11.5 on a Mac Book with OS 10.5 installed. I ve also installed the developer tools, fink and X11, but it does not work. Here is the log text of the installation process ? Does anybody can help me ? Thank you. Kind Regards Felipe Duran bash-3.2$ sudo ./esp-r_v11.5_osx_precomp.run Password: Verifying archive integrity... All good. Uncompressing ESP-r V11.5 distribution for OSX (/opt/esru)........ This script installs an ESP-r 11.5 X11 or GTK distribution on a Mac OSX 10.4+ computer which already has the X11, developers environment and the fink environment setup and running. On a PPC Mac this should run natively. On an Intel based Mac it should run in emulation mode. NOT TESTED ON OSX 10.5 It includes ESP-r executables, example models and standard databases as well as some helper applications. You should run this installer with a sudo command so that it will have administrative privileges. The installation will be to a standard location, which is /opt/esru and a link will be created to this from /usr/esru if it does not already exist. Note: this installer will also attempt to install a version of Radiance for OSX. This may clobber any existing Radiance on your computer. User is currently root Checking for existance of /sw/bin proceed to install (y/n) ? y Hit return to start reading the licence ESP-r is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License as published by the Free Software Foundation; either version 2 of the License, or (at your option) any later version. This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. See the GNU General Public License for more details. You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License along with this program; if not, write to the Free Software Foundation, Inc., 59 Temple Place, Suite 330, Boston, MA 02111-1307 USA Do you agree to the above license terms? [y/n]: y ESP-r is available in two versions: a) the standard X11 impementation b) an implementation using the GTK graphics library (some functions have not yet been ported. selection option [a/b]: a proceeding with the X11 version... Checking computer operating system... OSX detected - continuing... This may take a few minutes ... Extracting X11 ESP-r distribution ... zcat: /tmp/selfgz65319844/esp-r_X11_11.5_osx.tar.gz.Z: No such file or directory Extracting ESP-r distribution ...done. Creating a link to the ESP-r distribution... Setting folder permissions... chmod: /opt/esru/bin: No such file or directory chmod: /opt/esru/esp-r: No such file or directory chmod: /opt/esru/esp-r/bin: No such file or directory chmod: /opt/esru/bin: No such file or directory chmod: /opt/esru/esp-r: No such file or directory chmod: /opt/esru/esp-r/bin: No such file or directory Extracting Radiance distribution ... zcat: /tmp/selfgz65319844/radiance_precomp_osx.tar.gz.Z: No such file or directory Extracting Radiance distribution ... done. copy .cshrc...to /tmp NOTICE: a sample .cshrc file has been placed in /tmp for you to copy into your own home folder in case you do not have one. The command sequence to see if you have this file is.... cd ls -al The command sequence to copy the sample file is... cd cp /tmp/.cshrc . See the instructions for further information. copying helper applications... copy helper applications... done. ...done. The PATH environment variable is being updated. The .cshrc file the path= line should include the following... /opt/esru/bin /opt/esru/esp-r/bin /usr/local/bin /usr/local/bin/ray /sw/bin and the Radiance RAYPATH environment variable has also been set. Once you have completed the install logout and then login as a normal user and start up an X terminal and invoke the tcsh shell via the command 'tcsh' (without the quotes). This loads environmental variables. Next issue the command 'which prj' (without the quotes). If the installation was successful you should find that there is a response '/opt/esru/esp-r/bin/prj'. You may then start the Project Manager via the command 'prj'. If the Project Manager application starts you no longer need this run file and it can be removed. If it does not start then you might need to look at the .cshrc file in your home folder. Please wait while the installer performs cleanup...ls: /opt/esru/esp-r/bin: No such file or directory From zhongqiu at cityu.edu.hk Tue Jul 15 09:38:46 2008 From: zhongqiu at cityu.edu.hk (QIU) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 16:38:46 +0800 Subject: [esp-r] Questions about *.cgc file ? Message-ID: <0K4100B9XHCM7UC0@smtp02.cityu.edu.hk> Dear all, I set something in my casual gain control *.cgc file as follows, illuminance set point, 320 lux, switch off level, 150% night calibration, 44.5 lux control slope, -0.028 I think the light should switch off if illuminace is lower than 320 lux. but after simulation, from "zone casual gain trace file", I find light switch off under the condition that illuminace is lower than 75 lux, why that? what function does "switch off level, 150%" have? and what function does "control slope, -0.028" have? and how to get the control slope number? thank you. Warm regards, ZZ From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Tue Jul 15 10:16:10 2008 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 10:16:10 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Questions about *.cgc file ? References: <0K4100B9XHCM7UC0@smtp02.cityu.edu.hk> Message-ID: A recent question about lighting controls in ESP-r (see below). To understand what is happening in lighting control it is useful to run your simulation with the "trace" option for casual gains turned on. At each timestep it will print the values of many of the variables that are being used in the calculations. The switch off 150% is used to ensure that the light from the sun is 150% of what is assumed to be provided by the lighting in the room. This is intended to keep the room from appearing dark when the switch-off happens. You could use a different switch off level if you want. The control slope is not a variable that I am familiar with. Which control law are you using? Regards, Jon Hand -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk on behalf of QIU Sent: Tue 7/15/2008 9:38 AM To: esp-r Subject: [esp-r] Questions about *.cgc file ? Dear all, I set something in my casual gain control *.cgc file as follows, illuminance set point, 320 lux, switch off level, 150% night calibration, 44.5 lux control slope, -0.028 I think the light should switch off if illuminace is lower than 320 lux. but after simulation, from "zone casual gain trace file", I find light switch off under the condition that illuminace is lower than 75 lux, why that? what function does "switch off level, 150%" have? and what function does "control slope, -0.028" have? and how to get the control slope number? thank you. Warm regards, ZZ _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From zhongqiu at cityu.edu.hk Tue Jul 15 15:42:15 2008 From: zhongqiu at cityu.edu.hk (QIU) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 22:42:15 +0800 Subject: [esp-r] "control slope" and "switch off level"? Message-ID: <0K41005M1Y6VGXD0@smtp04.cityu.edu.hk> Dear ESP-r users, there are "control slope = -0.0278" and "switch off level = 150%" in the example *.cgc file lodated in folder /opt/esru/esp-r/training/CG_ctl/daylit_coef/zone/. Do you know what "control slope" and "switch off level" mean? Thank you. ZZ From zhongqiu at cityu.edu.hk Thu Jul 17 05:07:14 2008 From: zhongqiu at cityu.edu.hk (QIU) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 12:07:14 +0800 Subject: [esp-r] which source code file is for calculating the indoor illuminance of photocell location? Message-ID: <0K44004KCU42Z610@smtp02.cityu.edu.hk> Dear ESP-r users, which source code file is for calculating the indoor illuminance of photocell location? especially with pre-calculated Daylight Coefficient. Thank you. ZZ From zhongqiu at cityu.edu.hk Thu Jul 17 14:26:11 2008 From: zhongqiu at cityu.edu.hk (QIU) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 21:26:11 +0800 Subject: [esp-r] to get the sky luminance? Message-ID: <0K45000YZJZN6Z60@smtp04.cityu.edu.hk> Dear ESP-r users, what model is used in ESP-r to get the sky luminance from the direct and diffusion radiation climate data in the weather file? and which source code file is responsible for this? Thank you. ZZ From HRibberi at NRCan.gc.ca Fri Jul 18 13:12:49 2008 From: HRibberi at NRCan.gc.ca (Ribberink, Hajo) Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 08:12:49 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] Major additions to CETC_BATTERY model Message-ID: <560727A39D7F3546B0A17F405E4F3706033A1F48@s0-ott-x1.nrn.nrcan.gc.ca> Dear ESP-r user, The functionality of the lead acid battery model in ESP-r (source code in CETC_BATTERY.F) has been expanded with battery life calculation and an optional active battery life controller. Consequently, the number of inputs (POWCDAT items) has increased from 47 to 57. Please update you simulations models in which you use the battery model to ensure proper functioning of your models. The new code has been submitted to the development_branch and will be included in the next ESP-r release. The battery model can now also be used to represent (Vanadium) Redox Flow Batteries by selecting power-only component 21 (26 inputs). Please contact me in case you have any questions. Hajo Ribberink Natural Resources Canada -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080718/6334f45b/attachment.html From holger.bertling at gmx.de Mon Jul 21 18:32:10 2008 From: holger.bertling at gmx.de (Holger Bertling) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 19:32:10 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] res crashes when netflow results should be shown Message-ID: <1216661530.6507.69.camel@d> Hello List, The simulation seems to be Ok. Res accepts the flow-results-file. I tried different models and file and screen output. When I select any results of the flownetwork this is happening: b at d:~$ res kl_1 ->spha via door_1 spha ->kl_2 via door_2 kl_1 ->outside_node via window_1 spha ->outside_node via window_2 kl_2 ->outside_node via window_3 AXISDRW 0 0 1 0 0 Current -0.652873993 fac 1. IADJ -1 New -1. *** stack smashing detected ***: res terminated ======= Backtrace: ========= /lib/tls/i686/cmov/libc.so.6(__fortify_fail+0x48)[0xb7d6e138] /lib/tls/i686/cmov/libc.so.6(__fortify_fail+0x0)[0xb7d6e0f0] res[0x828f4f4] res[0x81d6dc4] res[0x816f7f9] res[0x821e5b6] res[0x804c684] res[0x8299639] /lib/tls/i686/cmov/libc.so.6(__libc_start_main+0xe0)[0xb7c97450] res[0x804a561] ======= Memory map: ======== 08048000-082f3000 r-xp 00000000 08:05 5153976 /usr/esru/esp-r/bin/res 082f3000-0831c000 rw-p 002ab000 08:05 5153976 /usr/esru/esp-r/bin/res 0831c000-09cf6000 rw-p 0831c000 00:00 0 [heap] b7c43000-b7c47000 r-xp 00000000 08:05 4645301 /usr/lib/libXfixes.so.3.1.0 b7c47000-b7c48000 rw-p 00003000 08:05 4645301 /usr/lib/libXfixes.so.3.1.0 b7c48000-b7c4f000 r-xp 00000000 08:05 4645321 /usr/lib/libXrender.so.1.3.0 b7c4f000-b7c50000 rw-p 00007000 08:05 4645321 /usr/lib/libXrender.so.1.3.0 b7c50000-b7c58000 r-xp 00000000 08:05 4645291 /usr/lib/libXcursor.so.1.0.2 b7c58000-b7c59000 rw-p 00007000 08:05 4645291 /usr/lib/libXcursor.so.1.0.2 b7c59000-b7c5a000 rw-p b7c59000 00:00 0 b7c5a000-b7c5e000 r-xp 00000000 08:05 4645295 /usr/lib/libXdmcp.so.6.0.0 b7c5e000-b7c5f000 rw-p 00003000 08:05 4645295 /usr/lib/libXdmcp.so.6.0.0 b7c5f000-b7c61000 r-xp 00000000 08:05 4645284 /usr/lib/libXau.so.6.0.0 b7c61000-b7c62000 rw-p 00001000 08:05 4645284 /usr/lib/libXau.so.6.0.0 b7c62000-b7c63000 rw-p b7c62000 00:00 0 b7c63000-b7c65000 r-xp 00000000 08:05 3598490 /lib/tls/i686/cmov/libdl-2.7.so b7c65000-b7c67000 rw-p 00001000 08:05 3598490 /lib/tls/i686/cmov/libdl-2.7.so b7c67000-b7c7e000 r-xp 00000000 08:05 4646132 /usr/lib/libxcb.so.1.0.0 b7c7e000-b7c7f000 rw-p 00016000 08:05 4646132 /usr/lib/libxcb.so.1.0.0 b7c7f000-b7c80000 r-xp 00000000 08:05 4646130 /usr/lib/libxcb-xlib.so.0.0.0 b7c80000-b7c81000 rw-p 00000000 08:05 4646130 /usr/lib/libxcb-xlib.so.0.0.0 b7c81000-b7dca000 r-xp 00000000 08:05 3598487 /lib/tls/i686/cmov/libc-2.7.so b7dca000-b7dcb000 r--p 00149000 08:05 3598487 /lib/tls/i686/cmov/libc-2.7.so b7dcb000-b7dcd000 rw-p 0014a000 08:05 3598487 /lib/tls/i686/cmov/libc-2.7.so b7dcd000-b7dd0000 rw-p b7dcd000 00:00 0 b7dd0000-b7dda000 r-xp 00000000 08:05 3564757 /lib/libgcc_s.so.1 b7dda000-b7ddb000 rw-p 0000a000 08:05 3564757 /lib/libgcc_s.so.1 b7ddb000-b7dfe000 r-xp 00000000 08:05 3598491 /lib/tls/i686/cmov/libm-2.7.so b7dfe000-b7e00000 rw-p 00023000 08:05 3598491 /lib/tls/i686/cmov/libm-2.7.so b7e00000-b7e01000 rw-p b7e00000 00:00 0 b7e01000-b7e1a000 r-xp 00000000 08:05 4646173 /usr/lib/libg2c.so.0.0.0 b7e1a000-b7e1b000 rw-p 00019000 08:05 4646173 /usr/lib/libg2c.so.0.0.0 b7e1b000-b7e28000 rw-p b7e1b000 00:00 0 b7e28000-b7f0c000 r-xp 00000000 08:05 4645278 /usr/lib/libX11.so.6.2.0 b7f0c000-b7f0f000 rw-p 000e4000 08:05 4645278 /usr/lib/libX11.so.6.2.0 b7f1f000-b7f25000 rw-p b7f1f000 00:00 0 b7f25000-b7f26000 r-xp b7f25000 00:00 0 [vdso] b7f26000-b7f40000 r-xp 00000000 08:05 3564754 /lib/ld-2.7.so b7f40000-b7f42000 rw-p 00019000 08:05 3564754 /lib/ld-2.7.so bf8fd000-bf912000 rw-p bffeb000 00:00 0 [stack] IOT Trap Aborted b at d:~$ Maybe someone can read this... Best regards, Holger From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Tue Jul 22 00:36:56 2008 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 00:36:56 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: res crashes when netflow results should be shown References: <1216661530.6507.69.camel@d> Message-ID: A 'stack' issue has been identifed in res. This issue may be machine specific as we have not had other reports of this problem. Some additional information would be useful - what operating system and what version, what compiler and version was used, which graphics libary (X11 or GTK) for the version of esp-r and lastly is there a version and revision number for the version of esp-r being used? Regards, Jon Hand -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk on behalf of Holger Bertling Sent: Mon 7/21/2008 6:32 PM To: esp-r Subject: [esp-r] res crashes when netflow results should be shown Hello List, The simulation seems to be Ok. Res accepts the flow-results-file. I tried different models and file and screen output. When I select any results of the flownetwork this is happening: b at d:~$ res kl_1 ->spha via door_1 spha ->kl_2 via door_2 kl_1 ->outside_node via window_1 spha ->outside_node via window_2 kl_2 ->outside_node via window_3 AXISDRW 0 0 1 0 0 Current -0.652873993 fac 1. IADJ -1 New -1. *** stack smashing detected ***: res terminated ======= Backtrace: ========= /lib/tls/i686/cmov/libc.so.6(__fortify_fail+0x48)[0xb7d6e138] /lib/tls/i686/cmov/libc.so.6(__fortify_fail+0x0)[0xb7d6e0f0] res[0x828f4f4] res[0x81d6dc4] res[0x816f7f9] res[0x821e5b6] res[0x804c684] res[0x8299639] /lib/tls/i686/cmov/libc.so.6(__libc_start_main+0xe0)[0xb7c97450] res[0x804a561] ======= Memory map: ======== 08048000-082f3000 r-xp 00000000 08:05 5153976 /usr/esru/esp-r/bin/res 082f3000-0831c000 rw-p 002ab000 08:05 5153976 /usr/esru/esp-r/bin/res 0831c000-09cf6000 rw-p 0831c000 00:00 0 [heap] b7c43000-b7c47000 r-xp 00000000 08:05 4645301 /usr/lib/libXfixes.so.3.1.0 b7c47000-b7c48000 rw-p 00003000 08:05 4645301 /usr/lib/libXfixes.so.3.1.0 b7c48000-b7c4f000 r-xp 00000000 08:05 4645321 /usr/lib/libXrender.so.1.3.0 b7c4f000-b7c50000 rw-p 00007000 08:05 4645321 /usr/lib/libXrender.so.1.3.0 b7c50000-b7c58000 r-xp 00000000 08:05 4645291 /usr/lib/libXcursor.so.1.0.2 b7c58000-b7c59000 rw-p 00007000 08:05 4645291 /usr/lib/libXcursor.so.1.0.2 b7c59000-b7c5a000 rw-p b7c59000 00:00 0 b7c5a000-b7c5e000 r-xp 00000000 08:05 4645295 /usr/lib/libXdmcp.so.6.0.0 b7c5e000-b7c5f000 rw-p 00003000 08:05 4645295 /usr/lib/libXdmcp.so.6.0.0 b7c5f000-b7c61000 r-xp 00000000 08:05 4645284 /usr/lib/libXau.so.6.0.0 b7c61000-b7c62000 rw-p 00001000 08:05 4645284 /usr/lib/libXau.so.6.0.0 b7c62000-b7c63000 rw-p b7c62000 00:00 0 . . . Maybe someone can read this... Best regards, Holger _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From holger.bertling at gmx.de Tue Jul 22 09:38:58 2008 From: holger.bertling at gmx.de (Holger Bertling) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 10:38:58 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: res crashes when netflow results should be shown In-Reply-To: References: <1216661530.6507.69.camel@d> Message-ID: <1216715938.6434.17.camel@d> Hello Jon, ESP-r 11.5 is running on Ubuntu 8.04. I chosed X11. But I'm not sure about the compiler. Is it the gcc? On my system are gcc-3.4 and gcc-4.2. If I had been asked, I'd chosen the recommended... Can I check this afterwards? Thanks and best regards, Holger Am Dienstag, den 22.07.2008, 00:36 +0100 schrieb Jon Hand: > A 'stack' issue has been identifed in res. This issue > may be machine specific as we have not had other reports > of this problem. > > Some additional information would be useful - what operating > system and what version, what compiler and version was used, > which graphics libary (X11 or GTK) for the version of esp-r > and lastly is there a version and revision number for the > version of esp-r being used? > > Regards, Jon Hand > > > -----Original Message----- > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk on behalf of Holger Bertling > Sent: Mon 7/21/2008 6:32 PM > To: esp-r > Subject: [esp-r] res crashes when netflow results should be shown > > Hello List, > > The simulation seems to be Ok. > Res accepts the flow-results-file. > I tried different models > and file and screen output. > > When I select any results of the flownetwork > this is happening: > > b at d:~$ res > kl_1 ->spha via door_1 > spha ->kl_2 via door_2 > kl_1 ->outside_node via window_1 > spha ->outside_node via window_2 > kl_2 ->outside_node via window_3 > AXISDRW 0 0 1 0 0 > Current -0.652873993 fac 1. IADJ -1 > New -1. > *** stack smashing detected ***: res terminated > ======= Backtrace: ========= > /lib/tls/i686/cmov/libc.so.6(__fortify_fail+0x48)[0xb7d6e138] > /lib/tls/i686/cmov/libc.so.6(__fortify_fail+0x0)[0xb7d6e0f0] > res[0x828f4f4] > res[0x81d6dc4] > res[0x816f7f9] > res[0x821e5b6] > res[0x804c684] > res[0x8299639] > /lib/tls/i686/cmov/libc.so.6(__libc_start_main+0xe0)[0xb7c97450] > res[0x804a561] > ======= Memory map: ======== > 08048000-082f3000 r-xp 00000000 08:05 5153976 /usr/esru/esp-r/bin/res > 082f3000-0831c000 rw-p 002ab000 08:05 5153976 /usr/esru/esp-r/bin/res > 0831c000-09cf6000 rw-p 0831c000 00:00 0 [heap] > b7c43000-b7c47000 r-xp 00000000 08:05 > 4645301 /usr/lib/libXfixes.so.3.1.0 > b7c47000-b7c48000 rw-p 00003000 08:05 > 4645301 /usr/lib/libXfixes.so.3.1.0 > b7c48000-b7c4f000 r-xp 00000000 08:05 > 4645321 /usr/lib/libXrender.so.1.3.0 > b7c4f000-b7c50000 rw-p 00007000 08:05 > 4645321 /usr/lib/libXrender.so.1.3.0 > b7c50000-b7c58000 r-xp 00000000 08:05 > 4645291 /usr/lib/libXcursor.so.1.0.2 > b7c58000-b7c59000 rw-p 00007000 08:05 > 4645291 /usr/lib/libXcursor.so.1.0.2 > b7c59000-b7c5a000 rw-p b7c59000 00:00 0 > b7c5a000-b7c5e000 r-xp 00000000 08:05 > 4645295 /usr/lib/libXdmcp.so.6.0.0 > b7c5e000-b7c5f000 rw-p 00003000 08:05 > 4645295 /usr/lib/libXdmcp.so.6.0.0 > b7c5f000-b7c61000 r-xp 00000000 08:05 > 4645284 /usr/lib/libXau.so.6.0.0 > b7c61000-b7c62000 rw-p 00001000 08:05 > 4645284 /usr/lib/libXau.so.6.0.0 > b7c62000-b7c63000 rw-p b7c62000 00:00 0 > . . . > > Maybe someone can read this... > > Best regards, > > Holger > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From AFerguso at NRCan.gc.ca Tue Jul 22 14:26:57 2008 From: AFerguso at NRCan.gc.ca (Ferguson, Alex) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 09:26:57 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] Re: res crashes when netflow results should be shown In-Reply-To: <1216715938.6434.17.camel@d> References: <1216661530.6507.69.camel@d> <1216715938.6434.17.camel@d> Message-ID: Hi Holger, Are you compiling ESP-r from source (that is, using a sandbox checked out from svn)? If so, check which version of gcc you're using: $ gcc -v If the result is gcc 3.4.X, then everything's probably ok. The Install script should correctly locate the gcc/g77/g++ compilers, and link in the correct libc and libstdc++ libraries. But if your default compiler is set to gcc 4.+, you need to specify the '--gcc4' command line argument during installation. Run the following command from the src directory for more information: $ ./Install --help If you fail to specify '--gcc4' on a system with gcc4 compilers, the install script will likely find the version 4.X gcc and g++ compilers, but will probably use the version 3.4 g77 fortran compiler. It will probably link these against the version 4.X libc and libstdc++ libraries. These library and compiler mismatches will produce unpredictable results, and might well generate the stack-smash error you encountered. Even if you're using the '--gcc4' option, I can't be certain which library your binaries will be built against if other gcc libraries are present on your system. Truth is that many linux distibutions do a poor job managing multiple versions of the gcc compiler. Gentoo provides a useful script called gcc-config, which allows users to cleanly switch between multiple versions of gcc, and updates the environment variables to point to the correct libraries. Does anybody know of similar tools for Ubuntu and other distributions? - Alex -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Holger Bertling Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 4:39 AM To: esp-r Cc: Jon Hand Subject: [esp-r] Re: res crashes when netflow results should be shown Hello Jon, ESP-r 11.5 is running on Ubuntu 8.04. I chosed X11. But I'm not sure about the compiler. Is it the gcc? On my system are gcc-3.4 and gcc-4.2. If I had been asked, I'd chosen the recommended... Can I check this afterwards? Thanks and best regards, Holger Am Dienstag, den 22.07.2008, 00:36 +0100 schrieb Jon Hand: > A 'stack' issue has been identifed in res. This issue may be machine > specific as we have not had other reports of this problem. > > Some additional information would be useful - what operating system > and what version, what compiler and version was used, which graphics > libary (X11 or GTK) for the version of esp-r and lastly is there a > version and revision number for the version of esp-r being used? > > Regards, Jon Hand > > > -----Original Message----- > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk on behalf of Holger Bertling > Sent: Mon 7/21/2008 6:32 PM > To: esp-r > Subject: [esp-r] res crashes when netflow results should be shown > > Hello List, > > The simulation seems to be Ok. > Res accepts the flow-results-file. > I tried different models > and file and screen output. > > When I select any results of the flownetwork this is happening: > > b at d:~$ res > kl_1 ->spha via door_1 > spha ->kl_2 via door_2 > kl_1 ->outside_node via window_1 > spha ->outside_node via window_2 > kl_2 ->outside_node via window_3 > AXISDRW 0 0 1 0 0 > Current -0.652873993 fac 1. IADJ -1 > New -1. > *** stack smashing detected ***: res terminated ======= Backtrace: > ========= > /lib/tls/i686/cmov/libc.so.6(__fortify_fail+0x48)[0xb7d6e138] > /lib/tls/i686/cmov/libc.so.6(__fortify_fail+0x0)[0xb7d6e0f0] > res[0x828f4f4] > res[0x81d6dc4] > res[0x816f7f9] > res[0x821e5b6] > res[0x804c684] > res[0x8299639] > /lib/tls/i686/cmov/libc.so.6(__libc_start_main+0xe0)[0xb7c97450] > res[0x804a561] > ======= Memory map: ======== > 08048000-082f3000 r-xp 00000000 08:05 5153976 /usr/esru/esp-r/bin/res > 082f3000-0831c000 rw-p 002ab000 08:05 5153976 /usr/esru/esp-r/bin/res > 0831c000-09cf6000 rw-p 0831c000 00:00 0 [heap] > b7c43000-b7c47000 r-xp 00000000 08:05 > 4645301 /usr/lib/libXfixes.so.3.1.0 > b7c47000-b7c48000 rw-p 00003000 08:05 > 4645301 /usr/lib/libXfixes.so.3.1.0 > b7c48000-b7c4f000 r-xp 00000000 08:05 > 4645321 /usr/lib/libXrender.so.1.3.0 > b7c4f000-b7c50000 rw-p 00007000 08:05 > 4645321 /usr/lib/libXrender.so.1.3.0 > b7c50000-b7c58000 r-xp 00000000 08:05 > 4645291 /usr/lib/libXcursor.so.1.0.2 > b7c58000-b7c59000 rw-p 00007000 08:05 > 4645291 /usr/lib/libXcursor.so.1.0.2 > b7c59000-b7c5a000 rw-p b7c59000 00:00 0 b7c5a000-b7c5e000 r-xp > 00000000 08:05 > 4645295 /usr/lib/libXdmcp.so.6.0.0 > b7c5e000-b7c5f000 rw-p 00003000 08:05 > 4645295 /usr/lib/libXdmcp.so.6.0.0 > b7c5f000-b7c61000 r-xp 00000000 08:05 > 4645284 /usr/lib/libXau.so.6.0.0 > b7c61000-b7c62000 rw-p 00001000 08:05 > 4645284 /usr/lib/libXau.so.6.0.0 > b7c62000-b7c63000 rw-p b7c62000 00:00 0 . . . > > Maybe someone can read this... > > Best regards, > > Holger > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From holger.bertling at gmx.de Tue Jul 22 15:09:05 2008 From: holger.bertling at gmx.de (Holger Bertling) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 16:09:05 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: res crashes when netflow results should be shown In-Reply-To: References: <1216661530.6507.69.camel@d> <1216715938.6434.17.camel@d> Message-ID: <1216735745.6434.56.camel@d> Hi Alex and Jon! Yes, I'm compiling from source with svn. I went back to 32 bits, 64 bits were just too much for me. ;-) The deb-package was really bad on my system, it crashed when I opened self-saved models... So it must be the compiler: b at d:~$ gcc -v Es werden eingebaute Spezifikationen verwendet. Ziel: i486-linux-gnu Konfiguriert mit: ../src/configure -v --enable-languages=c,c ++,fortran,objc,obj-c++,treelang --prefix=/usr --enable-shared --with-system-zlib --libexecdir=/usr/lib --without-included-gettext --enable-threads=posix --enable-nls --with-gxx-include-dir=/usr/include/c++/4.2 --program-suffix=-4.2 --enable-clocale=gnu --enable-libstdcxx-debug --enable-objc-gc --enable-mpfr --enable-targets=all --enable-checking=release --build=i486-linux-gnu --host=i486-linux-gnu --target=i486-linux-gnu Thread-Modell: posix gcc-Version 4.2.3 (Ubuntu 4.2.3-2ubuntu7) Thanks for your help! But sorry, I will test it in about three month. For know I just got no time. The rest works really well and for now i habe to leave the flownetwork out... Thanks and best regards, Holger Am Dienstag, den 22.07.2008, 09:26 -0400 schrieb Ferguson, Alex: > Hi Holger, > > Are you compiling ESP-r from source (that is, using a sandbox checked > out from svn)? If so, check which version of gcc you're using: > > $ gcc -v > > If the result is gcc 3.4.X, then everything's probably ok. The Install > script should correctly locate the gcc/g77/g++ compilers, and link in > the correct libc and libstdc++ libraries. But if your default compiler > is set to gcc 4.+, you need to specify the '--gcc4' command line > argument during installation. Run the following command from the src > directory for more information: > > $ ./Install --help > > If you fail to specify '--gcc4' on a system with gcc4 compilers, the > install script will likely find the version 4.X gcc and g++ compilers, > but will probably use the version 3.4 g77 fortran compiler. It will > probably link these against the version 4.X libc and libstdc++ > libraries. > > These library and compiler mismatches will produce unpredictable > results, and might well generate the stack-smash error you encountered. > Even if you're using the '--gcc4' option, I can't be certain which > library your binaries will be built against if other gcc libraries are > present on your system. > > Truth is that many linux distibutions do a poor job managing multiple > versions of the gcc compiler. Gentoo provides a useful script called > gcc-config, which allows users to cleanly switch between multiple > versions of gcc, and updates the environment variables to point to the > correct libraries. Does anybody know of similar tools for Ubuntu and > other distributions? > > - Alex > > -----Original Message----- > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk > [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Holger Bertling > Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 4:39 AM > To: esp-r > Cc: Jon Hand > Subject: [esp-r] Re: res crashes when netflow results should be shown > > Hello Jon, > > ESP-r 11.5 is running on Ubuntu 8.04. > I chosed X11. > > But I'm not sure about the compiler. > Is it the gcc? > On my system are gcc-3.4 and gcc-4.2. > If I had been asked, > I'd chosen the recommended... > Can I check this afterwards? > > Thanks and best regards, > Holger > > > Am Dienstag, den 22.07.2008, 00:36 +0100 schrieb Jon Hand: > > A 'stack' issue has been identifed in res. This issue may be machine > > specific as we have not had other reports of this problem. > > > > Some additional information would be useful - what operating system > > and what version, what compiler and version was used, which graphics > > libary (X11 or GTK) for the version of esp-r and lastly is there a > > version and revision number for the version of esp-r being used? > > > > Regards, Jon Hand > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk on behalf of Holger Bertling > > Sent: Mon 7/21/2008 6:32 PM > > To: esp-r > > Subject: [esp-r] res crashes when netflow results should be shown > > > > Hello List, > > > > The simulation seems to be Ok. > > Res accepts the flow-results-file. > > I tried different models > > and file and screen output. > > > > When I select any results of the flownetwork this is happening: > > > > b at d:~$ res > > kl_1 ->spha via door_1 > > spha ->kl_2 via door_2 > > kl_1 ->outside_node via window_1 > > spha ->outside_node via window_2 > > kl_2 ->outside_node via window_3 > > AXISDRW 0 0 1 0 0 > > Current -0.652873993 fac 1. IADJ -1 > > New -1. > > *** stack smashing detected ***: res terminated ======= Backtrace: > > ========= > > /lib/tls/i686/cmov/libc.so.6(__fortify_fail+0x48)[0xb7d6e138] > > /lib/tls/i686/cmov/libc.so.6(__fortify_fail+0x0)[0xb7d6e0f0] > > res[0x828f4f4] > > res[0x81d6dc4] > > res[0x816f7f9] > > res[0x821e5b6] > > res[0x804c684] > > res[0x8299639] > > /lib/tls/i686/cmov/libc.so.6(__libc_start_main+0xe0)[0xb7c97450] > > res[0x804a561] > > ======= Memory map: ======== > > 08048000-082f3000 r-xp 00000000 08:05 5153976 > /usr/esru/esp-r/bin/res > > 082f3000-0831c000 rw-p 002ab000 08:05 5153976 > /usr/esru/esp-r/bin/res > > 0831c000-09cf6000 rw-p 0831c000 00:00 0 [heap] > > b7c43000-b7c47000 r-xp 00000000 08:05 > > 4645301 /usr/lib/libXfixes.so.3.1.0 > > b7c47000-b7c48000 rw-p 00003000 08:05 > > 4645301 /usr/lib/libXfixes.so.3.1.0 > > b7c48000-b7c4f000 r-xp 00000000 08:05 > > 4645321 /usr/lib/libXrender.so.1.3.0 > > b7c4f000-b7c50000 rw-p 00007000 08:05 > > 4645321 /usr/lib/libXrender.so.1.3.0 > > b7c50000-b7c58000 r-xp 00000000 08:05 > > 4645291 /usr/lib/libXcursor.so.1.0.2 > > b7c58000-b7c59000 rw-p 00007000 08:05 > > 4645291 /usr/lib/libXcursor.so.1.0.2 > > b7c59000-b7c5a000 rw-p b7c59000 00:00 0 b7c5a000-b7c5e000 r-xp > > 00000000 08:05 > > 4645295 /usr/lib/libXdmcp.so.6.0.0 > > b7c5e000-b7c5f000 rw-p 00003000 08:05 > > 4645295 /usr/lib/libXdmcp.so.6.0.0 > > b7c5f000-b7c61000 r-xp 00000000 08:05 > > 4645284 /usr/lib/libXau.so.6.0.0 > > b7c61000-b7c62000 rw-p 00001000 08:05 > > 4645284 /usr/lib/libXau.so.6.0.0 > > b7c62000-b7c63000 rw-p b7c62000 00:00 0 . . . > > > > Maybe someone can read this... > > > > Best regards, > > > > Holger > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > esp-r mailing list > > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > esp-r mailing list > > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From chunxiaolu at gmail.com Tue Jul 22 20:57:02 2008 From: chunxiaolu at gmail.com (Sean C Lu) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 20:57:02 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Sky view factor & External insolation Message-ID: <3c5d4a570807221257x465a2915i803f3895313137a2@mail.gmail.com> Hi I am thinking to use Esp-r to simulate the solar performace of shading device ( for exampe, the shading device integrated with solar collector) . one of the task is to calculate the solar radiation received by the surface of the external shading device. there are two questions for the calculation of incident radiation : 1 can esp-r calculate the insolation for the external face of surface? (The shading and insolation program (ish) can only calculate the distribution of insolation within ZONE ?) 2 as we know, the Incident Radiation of Surface = Unshaded Fraction * Incident Beam Radiation + Sky View Facter * Incident Diffuse Radiation + Ground Diffuse Radiation to calculate the component of diffuse radiation ( the 2rd term) , the fraction of Sky View Facter must be known, is there any application can calculate the SVF? ( it seems that the application of ESPmrt only calculate the viewfactors between surfaces within A ZONE) many thanks for your help. -- Sean Lu 1st floor SRB School of the Built Environment The university of Nottingham NG7 2RD [m] 0775 144 5367 [O] 0115 84 67260 [e ]laxcl at nottingham.ac.uk trees Before printing Please think about the environment -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080722/89479c1d/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Tue Jul 22 22:09:52 2008 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 22:09:52 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Sky view factor & External insolation References: <3c5d4a570807221257x465a2915i803f3895313137a2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: A question about shading and about sky view factors. In the ish module, when the term 'shading' is used it actually is shading on the outside face of surfaces facing the outside. If there is some place in the documentation and/or contextual help that would indicate something else please let us know so we can correct this. And the shading in the newist version can calculate both the direct and diffuse shading. The diffuse shading has a good idea of how much of the sky is seen from each surface. The sky view factor is set globally in the 'context' menu based on the building/sky/ground settings. Not sure if I know of an application which calculates sky view factors direction. Perhaps someone else does. -Jon Hand -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk on behalf of Sean C Lu Sent: Tue 7/22/2008 8:57 PM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Sky view factor & External insolation Hi I am thinking to use Esp-r to simulate the solar performace of shading device ( for exampe, the shading device integrated with solar collector) . one of the task is to calculate the solar radiation received by the surface of the external shading device. there are two questions for the calculation of incident radiation : 1 can esp-r calculate the insolation for the external face of surface? (The shading and insolation program (ish) can only calculate the distribution of insolation within ZONE ?) 2 as we know, the Incident Radiation of Surface = Unshaded Fraction * Incident Beam Radiation + Sky View Facter * Incident Diffuse Radiation + Ground Diffuse Radiation to calculate the component of diffuse radiation ( the 2rd term) , the fraction of Sky View Facter must be known, is there any application can calculate the SVF? ( it seems that the application of ESPmrt only calculate the viewfactors between surfaces within A ZONE) many thanks for your help. -- Sean Lu 1st floor SRB School of the Built Environment The university of Nottingham NG7 2RD [m] 0775 144 5367 [O] 0115 84 67260 [e ]laxcl at nottingham.ac.uk trees Before printing Please think about the environment From Fredrik.Karlsson at liu.se Wed Jul 23 13:38:03 2008 From: Fredrik.Karlsson at liu.se (Fredrik Karlsson) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 14:38:03 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Control algorithm Message-ID: <96FE0120A7D02D4B9B3EB80B57E840D259386C@LKPMSX1.ad.liu.se> Hello! I would like to control a flux input into several zones based on the outdoor temperature. When the outdoor temperature is below 16 degrees a flux should be introduced into the zone and this flux should increase linearly when the outdoor temperature decreases. Does anyone have any suggestion how I should implement this in a model? I have tried to use several control algorithms but I have failed. Any suggestion will be appreciated. Kind regards Fredrik Karlsson ----------------------- Fredrik Karlsson, Junior Research Fellow Division of Energy Systems Department of Management and Engineering Link?ping University SE-581 83 LINK?PING SWEDEN Tel: +46-13-281787 Fax: +46-13-281788 Mobile: 070 - 204 17 32 http://www.ikp.liu.se/energi/staff/freka -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080723/777b9585/attachment.html From Leen.Peeters at mech.kuleuven.be Wed Jul 23 16:44:22 2008 From: Leen.Peeters at mech.kuleuven.be (Leen Peeters) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 17:44:22 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Control algorithm In-Reply-To: <96FE0120A7D02D4B9B3EB80B57E840D259386C@LKPMSX1.ad.liu.se> References: <96FE0120A7D02D4B9B3EB80B57E840D259386C@LKPMSX1.ad.liu.se> Message-ID: <1216827862.488751d619725@webmail2.kuleuven.be> Fredrik, You can do so...by adapting an existing control.... One issue: you will probably have to define 1 control for each zone, if not you must make a global controller...and even then have to define a zone controller for each zone Anyway, in the bcfunc.F, in esrubld, you search for an easy cantrol (like BCL04 or BCL05). In the BCL 24 you can see how to get the ambient temperature And then it is just adapting the bcl you picked to what you want it to do, save it, Install your code again and probably start debugging ;-) Good luck! Quoting Fredrik Karlsson : > Hello! > > > > I would like to control a flux input into several zones based on the > outdoor temperature. When the outdoor temperature is below 16 degrees > a flux should be introduced into the zone and this flux should > increase linearly when the outdoor temperature decreases. Does anyone > have any suggestion how I should implement this in a model? I have > tried to use several control algorithms but I have failed. > > > > Any suggestion will be appreciated. > > > > Kind regards Fredrik Karlsson > > > > ----------------------- > Fredrik Karlsson, Junior Research Fellow > Division of Energy Systems > Department of Management and Engineering > Link?ping University > SE-581 83 LINK?PING > SWEDEN > Tel: +46-13-281787 > Fax: +46-13-281788 > Mobile: 070 - 204 17 32 > http://www.ikp.liu.se/energi/staff/freka > > > > Disclaimer: http://www.kuleuven.be/cwis/email_disclaimer.htm From zhongqiu at cityu.edu.hk Fri Jul 25 03:09:07 2008 From: zhongqiu at cityu.edu.hk (QIU) Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 10:09:07 +0800 Subject: [esp-r] open a casual gain control file problem? Message-ID: <0K4J00AYQHZ73W20@smtp02.cityu.edu.hk> Dear ESP-r users, I create a casual gain(lighting) control file. but when I open it in esp-r, esp-r always tells me "failed in ../zone/south.cgc:conversion of comp sens ht value in open existing casual gain control file", what does it mean? and how to correct it? Thank you. ZZ From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Fri Jul 25 05:39:56 2008 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 05:39:56 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: open a casual gain control file problem? References: <0K4J00AYQHZ73W20@smtp02.cityu.edu.hk> Message-ID: A question about an error message when reading the description of a lighting control...(see below)... This message is reading the line specifying the composite sensor X Y Z position. The Z (ht) value is either missing from the line or is not a number according to the logic that is attempting to read the file. A hint for those who want to quickly locate the source of an error message in the code. The message below gave a clue as to what ESP-r reported. On linux/mac/solaris use the grep facility. In this case I went to the esruprj folder and issued the following command grep -ni 'comp sens ht' *.F and it returned: ecasctl.F:206: CALL EGETWR(OUTSTR,K,cz,0.,0.,'-','comp sens ht',IER) I then opened up that source file in a text editor and looked at the code. The warning message would probably be better if it was more verbose. It is not all that clear that comp sense is short for composite sensor and that ht is the height of the sensor. To write a paragraph for each variable in each line of each file that is scanned would take rather a large resource. If anyone has some funds they would like to contribute to allow some staff time for such efforts please let us know... ;-) Regards, Jon Hand -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk on behalf of QIU Sent: Fri 7/25/2008 3:09 AM To: esp-r Subject: [esp-r] open a casual gain control file problem? Dear ESP-r users, I create a casual gain(lighting) control file. but when I open it in esp-r, esp-r always tells me "failed in ../zone/south.cgc:conversion of comp sens ht value in open existing casual gain control file", what does it mean? and how to correct it? Thank you. ZZ _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From chunxiaolu at gmail.com Thu Jul 24 21:42:47 2008 From: chunxiaolu at gmail.com (Sean C Lu) Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 21:42:47 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Sky view factor & External insolation In-Reply-To: References: <3c5d4a570807221257x465a2915i803f3895313137a2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3c5d4a570807241342r62e854b9j8d4bce5bd66974c7@mail.gmail.com> Hi Jon many thanks for your useful imformation, I have download the newest version (11.5), and I can see the result list for the diffuse shading, I think that is actually the so call Sky View Facter , coz it is defined by the proportion of How much sky ia able to be seen . as we know, there are generally 2 methods for calculating the " diffuse shading", one is numerical methods to integral the segment of sky dome, the others way is geometric methods (fish-eye concept with ray-tracing way) to account the amount of spray ray. I am just wondering what kinds of method Esp-r use here ? any documentation/ reference is available to understand the code of this calculation? the 2rd question, under the menu of Model Context , what does the Sky View Factor mean? is it the global setting as the average SVF for every surface of the building geometry? or it's juat a empirical setting ? what is the criteria for set this value? the last qustion, again, can esp-r calculate the insolation for the external face of surface? thank you very much indeed. Sean 2008/7/22 Jon Hand : > > A question about shading and about sky view factors. > > In the ish module, when the term 'shading' is used it > actually is shading on the outside face of surfaces facing the > outside. If there is some place in the documentation and/or > contextual help that would indicate something else please > let us know so we can correct this. > > And the shading in the newist version can calculate both > the direct and diffuse shading. The diffuse shading has > a good idea of how much of the sky is seen from each > surface. > > The sky view factor is set globally in the 'context' menu > based on the building/sky/ground settings. > > Not sure if I know of an application which calculates sky view > factors direction. Perhaps someone else does. > > -Jon Hand > > -----Original Message----- > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk on behalf of Sean C Lu > Sent: Tue 7/22/2008 8:57 PM > To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Subject: [esp-r] Sky view factor & External insolation > > Hi > > I am thinking to use Esp-r to simulate the solar performace of shading > device ( for exampe, the shading device integrated with solar collector) . > one of the task is to calculate the solar radiation received by the > surface > of the external shading device. > > there are two questions for the calculation of incident radiation : > > 1 can esp-r calculate the insolation for the external face of surface? (The > shading and insolation program (ish) can only calculate the distribution of > insolation within ZONE ?) > > > 2 as we know, the Incident Radiation of Surface = Unshaded Fraction > * Incident Beam Radiation + Sky View Facter * Incident Diffuse Radiation + > Ground Diffuse Radiation > to calculate the component of diffuse radiation ( the 2rd term) , the > fraction of Sky View Facter must be known, is there any application can > calculate the SVF? ( it seems that the application of ESPmrt only > calculate > the viewfactors between surfaces within A ZONE) > > > many thanks for your help. > > -- > Sean Lu > 1st floor SRB > School of the Built Environment > The university of Nottingham > NG7 2RD > [m] 0775 144 5367 > [O] 0115 84 67260 > [e ]laxcl at nottingham.ac.uk > > trees Before printing Please think about the environment > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080724/c309321f/attachment.html From j.f.l.diepens at bwk.tue.nl Fri Jul 25 14:04:52 2008 From: j.f.l.diepens at bwk.tue.nl (Diepens, J.F.L.) Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 15:04:52 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Problems compiling ESP-r on Suse 10.2 enterprise Message-ID: Dear all, Has some body a solution or workaround for the following compiling error? cd `pwd`/lib; \ make the_libX11 make[1]: Entering directory `/opt/resources/esp-r/trunk/src/lib' g77 -I../include -I../shocc -I/usr/local/include -I../cetc/h3kreports -DLIN -DX11 -fno-automatic -finit-local-zero -c esru_ask.F g77: installation problem, cannot exec `cc1': No such file or directory make[1]: *** [esru_ask.o] Error 1 make[1]: Leaving directory `/opt/resources/esp-r/trunk/src/lib' make: *** [libX11] Error 2 ----------------------------------------- Install: Fatal error. Executable libX11 could not be built! Installation aborted. The compatibility for 32 bit stuff has been installed BPS01-NET0:/opt/resources/esp-r/trunk/src # rpm -qa 'comp*' |sort compat-2006.1.25-11.2 compat-32bit-2006.1.25-11.2 compat-g77-3.3.5-2 compat-gcc-34-3.4.6-4 compat-libf2c-32-3.2.3-56.fc5 compat-libstdc++-5.0.7-22.2 compat-openssl097g-0.9.7g-13.9 compat-openssl097g-32bit-0.9.7g-13.9 Kind Regards, Jan Diepens -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080725/a6529490/attachment.html From AFerguso at NRCan.gc.ca Fri Jul 25 14:46:00 2008 From: AFerguso at NRCan.gc.ca (Ferguson, Alex) Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 09:46:00 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Problems compiling ESP-r on Suse 10.2 enterprise In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Jan, I don't think this is an ESP-r specific error; I found a SUSE user describing a very similar experience here: http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse/2007-05/msg01499.html I suggest you seek a resolution within the SUSE support groups, or build the beta version of ESP-r using the gcc 4.1 compiler set. - Alex Alex Ferguson Sustainable Buildings and Communities (Housing Group) CANMET Energy Technology Centre Natural Resources Canada P:+1 613 995 3294 F:+1 613 996 9909 Alex.Ferguson at nrcan.gc.ca ________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Diepens, J.F.L. Sent: Friday, July 25, 2008 9:05 AM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Problems compiling ESP-r on Suse 10.2 enterprise Dear all, Has some body a solution or workaround for the following compiling error? cd `pwd`/lib; \ make the_libX11 make[1]: Entering directory `/opt/resources/esp-r/trunk/src/lib' g77 -I../include -I../shocc -I/usr/local/include -I../cetc/h3kreports -DLIN -DX11 -fno-automatic -finit-local-zero -c esru_ask.F g77: installation problem, cannot exec `cc1': No such file or directory make[1]: *** [esru_ask.o] Error 1 make[1]: Leaving directory `/opt/resources/esp-r/trunk/src/lib' make: *** [libX11] Error 2 ----------------------------------------- Install: Fatal error. Executable libX11 could not be built! Installation aborted. The compatibility for 32 bit stuff has been installed BPS01-NET0:/opt/resources/esp-r/trunk/src # rpm -qa 'comp*' |sort compat-2006.1.25-11.2 compat-32bit-2006.1.25-11.2 compat-g77-3.3.5-2 compat-gcc-34-3.4.6-4 compat-libf2c-32-3.2.3-56.fc5 compat-libstdc++-5.0.7-22.2 compat-openssl097g-0.9.7g-13.9 compat-openssl097g-32bit-0.9.7g-13.9 Kind Regards, Jan Diepens -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080725/3fb669ab/attachment.html From AFerguso at NRCan.gc.ca Fri Jul 25 17:03:38 2008 From: AFerguso at NRCan.gc.ca (Ferguson, Alex) Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 12:03:38 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Problems compiling ESP-r on Suse 10.2 enterprise In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Jan, I'm sorry I wasn't clearer in my advice. I meant that you could rebuild ESP-r from the source you have using the gcc 4 compilers. We currently call gcc-4 builds 'beta' because, while the predictions are very close to gcc-3 builds, we haven't yet convinced ourselves that gFortran is stable. The same is true for ESP-r binaries built using the intel compiler, the GTK widget set, and architecture 64-bit. The ESP-r Readme file provides more information; instructions for building gcc4 versions can be obtained using the following command: $ ./Install --help I hope gcc4-builds will soon be designated as stable; over recent months, improvements to ESP-r and updates to gFortran have reduced the degree of disagreement between gcc3 and gcc4 builds. I can forward more information regarding these differences to you if you wish. - Alex ________________________________ From: Diepens, J.F.L. [mailto:j.f.l.diepens at bwk.tue.nl] Sent: Friday, July 25, 2008 11:14 AM To: Ferguson, Alex Subject: RE: [esp-r] Problems compiling ESP-r on Suse 10.2 enterprise Hi Alex, I have been looking around on the esp-r website but couldn't find the beta release of esp-r. How I can obtain the source code of the beta version? Regards, Jan ________________________________ From: Ferguson, Alex [mailto:AFerguso at NRCan.gc.ca] Sent: vrijdag 25 juli 2008 15:46 To: Diepens, J.F.L.; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: RE: [esp-r] Problems compiling ESP-r on Suse 10.2 enterprise Hi Jan, I don't think this is an ESP-r specific error; I found a SUSE user describing a very similar experience here: http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse/2007-05/msg01499.html I suggest you seek a resolution within the SUSE support groups, or build the beta version of ESP-r using the gcc 4.1 compiler set. - Alex Alex Ferguson Sustainable Buildings and Communities (Housing Group) CANMET Energy Technology Centre Natural Resources Canada P:+1 613 995 3294 F:+1 613 996 9909 Alex.Ferguson at nrcan.gc.ca ________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Diepens, J.F.L. Sent: Friday, July 25, 2008 9:05 AM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Problems compiling ESP-r on Suse 10.2 enterprise Dear all, Has some body a solution or workaround for the following compiling error? cd `pwd`/lib; \ make the_libX11 make[1]: Entering directory `/opt/resources/esp-r/trunk/src/lib' g77 -I../include -I../shocc -I/usr/local/include -I../cetc/h3kreports -DLIN -DX11 -fno-automatic -finit-local-zero -c esru_ask.F g77: installation problem, cannot exec `cc1': No such file or directory make[1]: *** [esru_ask.o] Error 1 make[1]: Leaving directory `/opt/resources/esp-r/trunk/src/lib' make: *** [libX11] Error 2 ----------------------------------------- Install: Fatal error. Executable libX11 could not be built! Installation aborted. The compatibility for 32 bit stuff has been installed BPS01-NET0:/opt/resources/esp-r/trunk/src # rpm -qa 'comp*' |sort compat-2006.1.25-11.2 compat-32bit-2006.1.25-11.2 compat-g77-3.3.5-2 compat-gcc-34-3.4.6-4 compat-libf2c-32-3.2.3-56.fc5 compat-libstdc++-5.0.7-22.2 compat-openssl097g-0.9.7g-13.9 compat-openssl097g-32bit-0.9.7g-13.9 Kind Regards, Jan Diepens -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080725/b9b9854f/attachment-0001.html From holger.bertling at gmx.de Mon Jul 28 09:43:22 2008 From: holger.bertling at gmx.de (Holger Bertling) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 10:43:22 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Direct Horizontal Solar Radiation Message-ID: <1217234602.6498.13.camel@d> Hello List, I would like to read weatherdata-files with direct horizontal solar radiation. Could you tell me the password? Is there something dangerously about it? Or is there a way to write the Altitude out for a spreadsheet calculation? Best regards and many thanks in advance, Holger From j.f.l.diepens at bwk.tue.nl Mon Jul 28 12:20:24 2008 From: j.f.l.diepens at bwk.tue.nl (Diepens, J.F.L.) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 13:20:24 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Compilation problems on Sun Fire 4150 with Suse 10.2 OS Message-ID: Hello list, I try to compile ESP-r on a Sun Fire 4150 with Suse 10.2 enterprise OS 64 bit but do not succeed. I added the option -m32 to the initial Compiler flags With ./Install -d /opt/esru -gcc4 I get the following error messages gfortran -I../include -I../shocc -I/usr/local/include -I../cetc/h3kreports -DLIN -DX11 -fno-automatic -DGCC4 -c tdfile.F gfortran -o aco -I../include -I../shocc -I/usr/local/include -I../cetc/h3kreports -DLIN -DX11 -fno-automatic -DGCC4 aco.o acocalc.o acoesp.o arrow.o ascii_mat.o c2fdum.o common3dv.o cread3dv.o ctlexp.o ctread.o dossupport.o e3dviews.o econstr.o edatabase.o edcondb.o egeometry.o emfnetw.o enetmisc.o eroper.o esru_misc.o esystem.o item.o mfcdat.o nwkrewr.o plelev.o pltcfg.o readaco.o readBCF.o readTrnsys.o sort.o startup.o tdfile.o -L/opt/resources/esp-r/trunk/src/lib -lxesru -L/usr/X11R6/lib -lX11 /usr/lib64/gcc/x86_64-suse-linux/4.1.2/../../../../x86_64-suse-linux/bin /ld: skipping incompatible /usr/X11R6/lib/libX11.so when searching for -lX11 /usr/lib64/gcc/x86_64-suse-linux/4.1.2/../../../../x86_64-suse-linux/bin /ld: skipping incompatible /usr/X11R6/lib/libX11.a when searching for -lX11 /usr/lib64/gcc/x86_64-suse-linux/4.1.2/../../../../x86_64-suse-linux/bin /ld: cannot find -lX11 collect2: ld returned 1 exit status How can I solve this compilation problem/error? Kind regards, Jan Diepens -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080728/ce5e5cde/attachment.html From xijiayu at hotmail.com Mon Jul 28 11:26:44 2008 From: xijiayu at hotmail.com (wong ing liang) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 10:26:44 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] import optical data from WINDOW6 Message-ID: Dear ESP-r users, I have optical data for a triple-glazing calculated in WINDOW6. I know the FAQ section in esru website explains how to import optical data from WINDOW4.1 to ESP-r (Unix environment). But what about importing data from WINDOW6 to ESP-r 11.4 window version? Thanks in advance. Regards,Wong _________________________________________________________________ NEW! Get Windows Live FREE. http://www.get.live.com/wl/all -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080728/ef74187d/attachment.html From AFerguso at NRCan.gc.ca Mon Jul 28 14:05:12 2008 From: AFerguso at NRCan.gc.ca (Ferguson, Alex) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 09:05:12 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Compilation problems on Sun Fire 4150 with Suse 10.2 OS In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Jan, /usr/lib64/gcc/x86_64-suse-linux/4.1.2/../../../../x86_64-suse-linux/bin /ld: skipping incompatible /usr/X11R6/lib/libX11.a when searching for -lX11 I think you've encountered a yet-to-be discovered incompatability with ESP-r and new versions of X11. Please send the output of the command 'X -version' command. In the mean-time, you could try the GTK version. - Alex ________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Diepens, J.F.L. Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 7:20 AM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Compilation problems on Sun Fire 4150 with Suse 10.2 OS Hello list, I try to compile ESP-r on a Sun Fire 4150 with Suse 10.2 enterprise OS 64 bit but do not succeed. I added the option -m32 to the initial Compiler flags With ./Install -d /opt/esru -gcc4 I get the following error messages gfortran -I../include -I../shocc -I/usr/local/include -I../cetc/h3kreports -DLIN -DX11 -fno-automatic -DGCC4 -c tdfile.F gfortran -o aco -I../include -I../shocc -I/usr/local/include -I../cetc/h3kreports -DLIN -DX11 -fno-automatic -DGCC4 aco.o acocalc.o acoesp.o arrow.o ascii_mat.o c2fdum.o common3dv.o cread3dv.o ctlexp.o ctread.o dossupport.o e3dviews.o econstr.o edatabase.o edcondb.o egeometry.o emfnetw.o enetmisc.o eroper.o esru_misc.o esystem.o item.o mfcdat.o nwkrewr.o plelev.o pltcfg.o readaco.o readBCF.o readTrnsys.o sort.o startup.o tdfile.o -L/opt/resources/esp-r/trunk/src/lib -lxesru -L/usr/X11R6/lib -lX11 /usr/lib64/gcc/x86_64-suse-linux/4.1.2/../../../../x86_64-suse-linux/bin /ld: skipping incompatible /usr/X11R6/lib/libX11.so when searching for -lX11 /usr/lib64/gcc/x86_64-suse-linux/4.1.2/../../../../x86_64-suse-linux/bin /ld: skipping incompatible /usr/X11R6/lib/libX11.a when searching for -lX11 /usr/lib64/gcc/x86_64-suse-linux/4.1.2/../../../../x86_64-suse-linux/bin /ld: cannot find -lX11 collect2: ld returned 1 exit status How can I solve this compilation problem/error? Kind regards, Jan Diepens -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080728/e2813f4a/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Mon Jul 28 14:33:57 2008 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 14:33:57 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Direct Horizontal Solar Radiation References: <1217234602.6498.13.camel@d> Message-ID: The password to the switch for solar radiation type is the number 101 It is only dangerous if you switch to the WRONG type of direct solar radiation. There is report on altitude in the 'ish' module in two forms - there is a mercantor (?spelling) sun path plot and the shading synopsis gives the solar azimuth and elevation at the time of the calculation. And if you wanted to find the azimuth and elevation of the sun at a particular hour of the year the 'view from sun' includes these numbers in the wireframe view. If you search for azimuth in the source you will also find a subroutine that calculates this give the hour day month and year. -Jon -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk on behalf of Holger Bertling Sent: Mon 7/28/2008 9:43 AM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Direct Horizontal Solar Radiation Hello List, I would like to read weatherdata-files with direct horizontal solar radiation. Could you tell me the password? Is there something dangerously about it? Or is there a way to write the Altitude out for a spreadsheet calculation? Best regards and many thanks in advance, Holger _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Mon Jul 28 14:38:36 2008 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 14:38:36 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: import optical data from WINDOW6 References: Message-ID: The code that went in last week to the development branch is able to import Window 5.1 and 5.2 reports into esp-r. We have not yet looked at how a Window 6 report differs - it might be easy but probably not because Window 6 includes some diffuse calculations and probably writes out more data. If you can make do with Window 5.2 then go with the development_branch version. Regards, Jon Hand -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk on behalf of wong ing liang Sent: Mon 7/28/2008 11:26 AM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] import optical data from WINDOW6 Dear ESP-r users, I have optical data for a triple-glazing calculated in WINDOW6. I know the FAQ section in esru website explains how to import optical data from WINDOW4.1 to ESP-r (Unix environment). But what about importing data from WINDOW6 to ESP-r 11.4 window version? Thanks in advance. Regards,Wong _________________________________________________________________ NEW! Get Windows Live FREE. http://www.get.live.com/wl/all From Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch Mon Jul 28 15:01:55 2008 From: Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch (Geissler Achim) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 16:01:55 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Direct Horizontal Solar Radiation References: <1217234602.6498.13.camel@d> Message-ID: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C4D33B3@sgartgum1.gart.intra> ... I may be wrong, but to my knowledge ESP-r expects either global horizontal or *direct normal* in addition to diffuse horizontal radiation. Using direct horizontal values may lead to wrong / unexpected results. Regards, Achim > -----Original Message----- > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r- > bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Jon Hand > Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 3:34 PM > To: Holger Bertling; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Subject: [esp-r] Re: Direct Horizontal Solar Radiation > > > The password to the switch for solar radiation type is the number 101 > > It is only dangerous if you switch to the WRONG type of direct solar > radiation. > > There is report on altitude in the 'ish' module in two forms - there > is a mercantor (?spelling) sun path plot and the shading synopsis > gives the solar azimuth and elevation at the time of the calculation. > > And if you wanted to find the azimuth and elevation of the sun > at a particular hour of the year the 'view from sun' includes > these numbers in the wireframe view. If you search for azimuth > in the source you will also find a subroutine that calculates > this give the hour day month and year. > > -Jon > > > -----Original Message----- > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk on behalf of Holger Bertling > Sent: Mon 7/28/2008 9:43 AM > To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Subject: [esp-r] Direct Horizontal Solar Radiation > > Hello List, > > I would like to read weatherdata-files with > direct horizontal solar radiation. > > Could you tell me the password? > Is there something dangerously about it? > > Or is there a way to write the Altitude out > for a spreadsheet calculation? > > Best regards > and many thanks in advance, > Holger > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From georgios at esru.strath.ac.uk Mon Jul 28 15:20:17 2008 From: georgios at esru.strath.ac.uk (Georgios Kokogiannakis) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 15:20:17 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: import optical data from WINDOW6 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200807281520.18221.georgios@esru.strath.ac.uk> I am not either sure about WINDOW6 but I have used several times WINDOW 5.1 in the past to generate the angular data needed for ESP-r (i.e. transm & layer abs.). If you do not have many glazing systems it may be easier to do the whole import manually: 1st generate the angular data (it is one of the outputs in window5.1) and then manually create the entry in the optics database. Old style but robust. Regards, Georgios On Monday 28 July 2008 14:38, Jon Hand wrote: > The code that went in last week to the development branch is able > to import Window 5.1 and 5.2 reports into esp-r. We have not > yet looked at how a Window 6 report differs - it might be easy > but probably not because Window 6 includes some diffuse > calculations and probably writes out more data. > > If you can make do with Window 5.2 then go with the > development_branch version. > > Regards, Jon Hand > > > -----Original Message----- > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk on behalf of wong ing liang > Sent: Mon 7/28/2008 11:26 AM > To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Subject: [esp-r] import optical data from WINDOW6 > > > > > Dear ESP-r users, I have optical data for a triple-glazing calculated in > WINDOW6. I know the FAQ section in esru website explains how to import > optical data from WINDOW4.1 to ESP-r (Unix environment). But what about > importing data from WINDOW6 to ESP-r 11.4 window version? Thanks in > advance. Regards,Wong > _________________________________________________________________ > NEW! Get Windows Live FREE. > http://www.get.live.com/wl/all > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r -- Energy Systems Research Unit (ESRU) Department of Mechanical Engineering University of Strathclyde From Gunter.Pueltz at MuellerBBM.de Tue Jul 29 08:07:40 2008 From: Gunter.Pueltz at MuellerBBM.de (Pueltz, Gunter) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 09:07:40 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] CO2-calculations for rooms with natural ventilation Message-ID: <2417729F3416D511A27E0090273A963B02787C80@smex01.mbbm.de> Dear ESP-developers, the current version of ESP, v11.5, is able to do CO2-balances for rooms in order to investigate room air quality, which is a quite usefull facility. But - as far as I know - it has still the limitation, that for a bidirectional air flow only the net flow is taken into account for CO2-balance. As we have to investigate room air quality in rooms of a school, which is ventilated by openable windows only, we can not use this facility so far. For natural ventilated rooms it is essential that the individual flows of bidirectional air exchange are taken into account for the CO2-balance. Thus we hope that the next release of ESP -r - announced for September 08 (?) - will provide this enhanced CO2-capability. Is this correct ? Best Regards, Gunter -- Dr. Gunter P?ltz M?ller-BBM GmbH Robert-Koch-Stra?e 11 82152 Planegg Telefon +49 (0)89 85602 - 336 Telefax +49 (0)89 85602 - 111 http://www.MuellerBBM.de HRB M?nchen 86143 Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Bernd Gr?zinger, Dr. Edwin Schorer, Norbert Suritsch From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Tue Jul 29 05:40:25 2008 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 05:40:25 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Compilation problems on 64 bit machines - an alternative Install script References: Message-ID: I attach a variant of the Install script that has been setup for Red Hat Enterprise 4 on a 64 bit HP compute server. Because such machines carry both 32 bit and 64 bit libraries it is a place of dragons to coerce the compilers to work. NOTE: this one is using the GCC 3.4 compiler and not the newer GCC. The difference is the -m32 as well as one place where the /usr/X11R6 had to be hard-coded to force it to use the correct libary. Note: some models run ok on a 64 bit machine which has been compiled to force 32 bit working. But there are some models which seem to have some control definitions mangled. Use with care and pay close attention to the predictions. Best if you also run the same model on a 32 bit machine to confirm that the numbers are close. Regards, Jon Hand -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk on behalf of Ferguson, Alex Sent: Mon 7/28/2008 2:05 PM To: Diepens, J.F.L.; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Re: Compilation problems on Sun Fire 4150 with Suse 10.2 OS Hi Jan, /usr/lib64/gcc/x86_64-suse-linux/4.1.2/../../../../x86_64-suse-linux/bin /ld: skipping incompatible /usr/X11R6/lib/libX11.a when searching for -lX11 I think you've encountered a yet-to-be discovered incompatability with ESP-r and new versions of X11. Please send the output of the command 'X -version' command. In the mean-time, you could try the GTK version. - Alex ________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Diepens, J.F.L. Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 7:20 AM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Compilation problems on Sun Fire 4150 with Suse 10.2 OS Hello list, I try to compile ESP-r on a Sun Fire 4150 with Suse 10.2 enterprise OS 64 bit but do not succeed. I added the option -m32 to the initial Compiler flags With ./Install -d /opt/esru -gcc4 I get the following error messages gfortran -I../include -I../shocc -I/usr/local/include -I../cetc/h3kreports -DLIN -DX11 -fno-automatic -DGCC4 -c tdfile.F gfortran -o aco -I../include -I../shocc -I/usr/local/include -I../cetc/h3kreports -DLIN -DX11 -fno-automatic -DGCC4 aco.o acocalc.o acoesp.o arrow.o ascii_mat.o c2fdum.o common3dv.o cread3dv.o ctlexp.o ctread.o dossupport.o e3dviews.o econstr.o edatabase.o edcondb.o egeometry.o emfnetw.o enetmisc.o eroper.o esru_misc.o esystem.o item.o mfcdat.o nwkrewr.o plelev.o pltcfg.o readaco.o readBCF.o readTrnsys.o sort.o startup.o tdfile.o -L/opt/resources/esp-r/trunk/src/lib -lxesru -L/usr/X11R6/lib -lX11 /usr/lib64/gcc/x86_64-suse-linux/4.1.2/../../../../x86_64-suse-linux/bin /ld: skipping incompatible /usr/X11R6/lib/libX11.so when searching for -lX11 /usr/lib64/gcc/x86_64-suse-linux/4.1.2/../../../../x86_64-suse-linux/bin /ld: skipping incompatible /usr/X11R6/lib/libX11.a when searching for -lX11 /usr/lib64/gcc/x86_64-suse-linux/4.1.2/../../../../x86_64-suse-linux/bin /ld: cannot find -lX11 collect2: ld returned 1 exit status How can I solve this compilation problem/error? Kind regards, Jan Diepens -------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: Install_32 Url: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080729/1e7b46e8/attachment-0001.ksh From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Wed Jul 30 06:13:24 2008 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 06:13:24 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: to get the sky luminance? References: <0K45000YZJZN6Z60@smtp04.cityu.edu.hk> Message-ID: A question about locating methods within ESP-r. There are two general approaches - look in Prof Joe Clarkes book Energy Simulation in Building Design 2nd Edition published by Butterworth Heinemann 2001. The other is to look in the source code. The most convenient way to do this is to use the grep command and the key word that you are interested in - e.g. luminance. Often the code will have comments about the method used. A hint - you will find some of the calculations in esrubld/solar.F -Jon Hand -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk on behalf of QIU Sent: Thu 7/17/2008 2:26 PM To: esp-r Subject: [esp-r] to get the sky luminance? Dear ESP-r users, what model is used in ESP-r to get the sky luminance from the direct and diffusion radiation climate data in the weather file? and which source code file is responsible for this? Thank you. ZZ _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From dave at howorth.org.uk Wed Jul 30 21:36:52 2008 From: dave at howorth.org.uk (Dave Howorth) Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 21:36:52 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Compilation problems on Sun Fire 4150 with Suse 10.2 OS In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1217450212.17020.547.camel@piglet.howorth.org.uk> On Mon, 2008-07-28 at 13:20 +0200, Diepens, J.F.L. wrote: > I try to compile ESP-r on a Sun Fire 4150 with Suse 10.2 enterprise OS > 64 bit but do not succeed. > How can I solve this compilation problem/error? Good news: I have ESP-r running on my machine which is an opensuse 10.2 x86_64 machine :) Bad news: I don't remember how I installed it :( But at least you know it's possible! The file that runs is /opt/esru/esp-r/bin/prj: ELF 32-bit LSB executable and I don't have gfortran installed, so we can be fairly sure that I've installed a 32-bit version and it wasn't compiled with gcc 4. I also can't find any evidence of a make/compile being done on the machine so most likely I just ran the precompiled installer esp-r_v11.4_linux_precomp.run, which is on my machine. So I suggest you just try running that, rather than compiling it yourself. If you do try to compile it yourself I expect you already know that the Suse 32/64 bit system is very well sorted out, unlike some other distros, so it should work well. Obviously if you try to build a 64 bit executable you'll need to link to the 64 bit versions of the libraries, so the make script will need to look in /usr/X11R6/lib64 for example, rather than in /usr/X11R6/lib. But that's fairly conventional now. I'm sorry I can't give more specific details but I haven't used ESP-r much since I installed it. I did write a proper GUI editor for the materials and construction data files because I hated the built-in one but I pretty much gave up on ESP-r after failing to get any responses to my questions on this mailing list. I shelled out for PHPP, which will probably do as much as I need. I'll come back to ESP-r if I need anything more. Cheers, Dave From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Wed Jul 30 22:30:23 2008 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 22:30:23 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] a GUI for ESP-r databases? Message-ID: A recent email mentioned.... ::I did write a proper GUI editor for the ::materials and construction data files because I hated the built-in one That is great - someone turns frustration into a new editor. Would the author be open to sharing this GUI with others in the community? And the 2nd question is would the author be willing to share the code? Regards, Jon Hand From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Wed Jul 30 23:16:42 2008 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 23:16:42 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] A new edition of the ESP-r Cookbook and Exercises volume is now available Message-ID: A new edition of the ESP-r Cookbook and Exercises volume is available on the ESRU web page for download in the publications page. This edition has expanded to 170 pages and has new chapters on operational schedules and the art of creating air flow networks as well as a summary of the computational capabilities of ESP-r. More emphasis is placed on strategy and methods for translating client questions and working drawings into models which are fit-for-purpose. This would be useful reading for anyone or any team using numerical assessments. The dialogue has been updated to reflect the current interface and includes expert tips as well as warnings about the places where the dragons live. The exercises have been updated and tied into the body of the Cookbook and are better suited for coursework and workshops. The layout is now double column and sized for printing at B4, two pages per A4, or scaled to 85% for extra large margins on A4. Work is underway on chapters about simulation team working practices (with checklists) and ensuring model quality (more checklists). Enjoy and spread the word! ESRU is interested in helping to co-ordinate efforts to translate the Cookbook into other languages. Please email me if you want to join in the effort. Regards, Jon Hand. From M.Mirsadeghi at tue.nl Mon Aug 4 16:59:50 2008 From: M.Mirsadeghi at tue.nl (Mirsadeghi, M.) Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 17:59:50 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] A problem with importing/exporting dxf files Message-ID: Dear all, While exporting/importing dxf file from/into ESP-r v.11.5, the following error appears: Subscript out of range. Location: line 2459 column 52 of 'startup.F' Subscript number 1 has value 0 in array 'CBINDESC' Does anybody have any suggestion to solve this issue? Thanks in advance for any help. Mohammad Mirsadeghi ---------------------------------------------------------- MSc. Ir. M. Mirsadeghi TU/e Technische Universiteit Eindhoven Department of Architecture, Building and Planning Den Dolech 2 - Vertigo 6.16 - P.O Box 513 5600 MB Eindhoven - The Netherlands Telephone: +31 (0)40 - 247 2273 Fax: +31 (0)40 - 243 8595 Homepage: http://sts.bwk.tue.nl/mirsadeghi E-mail: m.mirsadeghi at tue.nl -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080804/06808cf1/attachment.html From Monika.Hall at josef-gartner.ch Wed Aug 6 10:15:47 2008 From: Monika.Hall at josef-gartner.ch (Hall Monika) Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 11:15:47 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] zone control - ramp function Message-ID: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C4D37A7@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Dear all, I have a question about zone control. I would like to heat/cool a room with a ramp (or other) function. Is it possible? In "sensor details" I found sensor type k: use value from function generator. This generator needs 4 values, but I can't find the input menu. On the other hand I would expect a possibility for a ramp function in "actuator details". Has anyone an idea how to control the zone temperature with a ramp function? Many thanks in advance. Regards Monika -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080806/f8ab84d3/attachment.html From cah at byg.dtu.dk Wed Aug 6 12:11:17 2008 From: cah at byg.dtu.dk (Christian Anker Hviid) Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 13:11:17 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: zone control - ramp function (Hall Monika) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <78B14BBA2B77DF4186B975430E16648B01746A@mail3.byg.dtu.dk> You set the input parameters at simulation time. When you press either 'silent simulation' or 'interactive', esp-r notices the missing input and asks for them. I have tried with a sawtooth function. Regards Christian Hviid -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] P? vegne af esp-r-request at lists.strath.ac.uk Sendt: 6. august 2008 13:00 Til: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Emne: esp-r Digest, Vol 25, Issue 2 Send esp-r mailing list submissions to esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to esp-r-request at lists.strath.ac.uk You can reach the person managing the list at esp-r-owner at lists.strath.ac.uk When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of esp-r digest..." Today's Topics: 1. zone control - ramp function (Hall Monika) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 11:15:47 +0200 From: "Hall Monika" Subject: [esp-r] zone control - ramp function To: "esp-r" Message-ID: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C4D37A7 at sgartgum1.gart.intra> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Dear all, I have a question about zone control. I would like to heat/cool a room with a ramp (or other) function. Is it possible? In "sensor details" I found sensor type k: use value from function generator. This generator needs 4 values, but I can't find the input menu. On the other hand I would expect a possibility for a ramp function in "actuator details". Has anyone an idea how to control the zone temperature with a ramp function? Many thanks in advance. Regards Monika -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080806/f8ab84d3/attachment-0001.html ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r End of esp-r Digest, Vol 25, Issue 2 ************************************ From Monika.Hall at josef-gartner.ch Wed Aug 6 14:25:14 2008 From: Monika.Hall at josef-gartner.ch (Hall Monika) Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 15:25:14 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: zone control - ramp function (Hall Monika) References: <78B14BBA2B77DF4186B975430E16648B01746A@mail3.byg.dtu.dk> Message-ID: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C4D3802@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Hallo Chriatian, Thank you, but then I have to set the parameters for each siumlation run. Following my control function: * Control function # sensed value from function generator. -6 2 0 0 # sensor data # actuates air point of the current zone 0 0 0 # actuator data 1 # No. day types 1 365 # valid Tue-01-Jan - Tue-31-Dec 1 # No. of periods in day 0 2 0.000 # ctl type, law (free floating), start @ 0. # No. of data items -6: ramp function generator Is it right, that the "ctl typ" is unimportant, because -6 means that the input parameters were set at the simulation time? How could I manage different timesteps? E.g: 00:00 - 08:00 const. temperature 10 ?C 08:00 - 12:00 temperature increase 20 - 50?C (linear) 12:00 - 14:00 const. temperature 50 ?C 14:00 - 18:00 temperature decrease 50 - 10?C (linear) 18:00 - 24:00 const. temperature 10 ?C Is this possible with a sawtooth function, or with a nested function? Best regards Monika -----Original Message----- Message 2 From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Christian Anker Hviid Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 1:11 PM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Re: zone control - ramp function (Hall Monika) You set the input parameters at simulation time. When you press either 'silent simulation' or 'interactive', esp-r notices the missing input and asks for them. I have tried with a sawtooth function. Regards Christian Hviid -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] P? vegne af esp-r-request at lists.strath.ac.uk Sendt: 6. august 2008 13:00 Til: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Emne: esp-r Digest, Vol 25, Issue 2 Send esp-r mailing list submissions to esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to esp-r-request at lists.strath.ac.uk You can reach the person managing the list at esp-r-owner at lists.strath.ac.uk When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of esp-r digest..." Today's Topics: 1. zone control - ramp function (Hall Monika) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 11:15:47 +0200 From: "Hall Monika" Subject: [esp-r] zone control - ramp function To: "esp-r" Message-ID: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C4D37A7 at sgartgum1.gart.intra> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Dear all, I have a question about zone control. I would like to heat/cool a room with a ramp (or other) function. Is it possible? In "sensor details" I found sensor type k: use value from function generator. This generator needs 4 values, but I can't find the input menu. On the other hand I would expect a possibility for a ramp function in "actuator details". Has anyone an idea how to control the zone temperature with a ramp function? Many thanks in advance. Regards Monika -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080806/f8ab84d3/attachment-0001.html ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r End of esp-r Digest, Vol 25, Issue 2 ************************************ _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From georgios at esru.strath.ac.uk Wed Aug 6 15:23:29 2008 From: georgios at esru.strath.ac.uk (Georgios Kokogiannakis) Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 15:23:29 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: zone control - ramp function (Hall Monika) In-Reply-To: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C4D3802@sgartgum1.gart.intra> References: <78B14BBA2B77DF4186B975430E16648B01746A@mail3.byg.dtu.dk> <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C4D3802@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Message-ID: <200808061523.29899.georgios@esru.strath.ac.uk> I would try the temporal definitions file (tdf) item for setpoint temperature. I would precalculate the setpoints that I would like to have and then import them from a csv file in the tdf interface (click model context -> impose measured data, etc.). Regards, Georgios On Wednesday 06 August 2008 14:25, Hall Monika wrote: > Hallo Chriatian, > > Thank you, but then I have to set the parameters for each siumlation run. > > Following my control function: > > * Control function > # sensed value from function generator. > -6 2 0 0 # sensor data > # actuates air point of the current zone > 0 0 0 # actuator data > 1 # No. day types > 1 365 # valid Tue-01-Jan - Tue-31-Dec > 1 # No. of periods in day > 0 2 0.000 # ctl type, law (free floating), start @ > 0. # No. of data items > > -6: ramp function generator > > Is it right, that the "ctl typ" is unimportant, because -6 means that the > input parameters were set at the simulation time? > > How could I manage different timesteps? E.g: > 00:00 - 08:00 const. temperature 10 ?C > 08:00 - 12:00 temperature increase 20 - 50?C (linear) > 12:00 - 14:00 const. temperature 50 ?C > 14:00 - 18:00 temperature decrease 50 - 10?C (linear) > 18:00 - 24:00 const. temperature 10 ?C > > Is this possible with a sawtooth function, or with a nested function? > > Best regards > Monika > > > > -----Original Message----- > Message 2 > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk > [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Christian Anker > Hviid Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 1:11 PM > To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Subject: [esp-r] Re: zone control - ramp function (Hall Monika) > > You set the input parameters at simulation time. When you press either > 'silent simulation' or 'interactive', esp-r notices the missing input and > asks for them. I have tried with a sawtooth function. > > Regards > Christian Hviid > > > > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- > Fra: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk > [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] P? vegne af > esp-r-request at lists.strath.ac.uk Sendt: 6. august 2008 13:00 > Til: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Emne: esp-r Digest, Vol 25, Issue 2 > > Send esp-r mailing list submissions to > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > esp-r-request at lists.strath.ac.uk > > You can reach the person managing the list at > esp-r-owner at lists.strath.ac.uk > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of esp-r digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. zone control - ramp function (Hall Monika) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 11:15:47 +0200 > From: "Hall Monika" > Subject: [esp-r] zone control - ramp function > To: "esp-r" > Message-ID: > <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C4D37A7 at sgartgum1.gart.intra> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Dear all, > > > > > > I have a question about zone control. I would like to heat/cool a room with > a ramp (or other) function. Is it possible? > > > > In "sensor details" I found sensor type k: use value from function > generator. This generator needs 4 values, but I can't find the input menu. > On the other hand I would expect a possibility for a ramp function in > "actuator details". > > > > Has anyone an idea how to control the zone temperature with a ramp > function? > > > > Many thanks in advance. > > > > Regards > > Monika > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080806/f8ab84d3/atta >chment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > > End of esp-r Digest, Vol 25, Issue 2 > ************************************ > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r -- Energy Systems Research Unit (ESRU) Department of Mechanical Engineering University of Strathclyde From aizaz.a.samuel at strath.ac.uk Thu Aug 7 16:57:46 2008 From: aizaz.a.samuel at strath.ac.uk (Aizaz Samuel) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 16:57:46 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: CO2-calculations for rooms with natural ventilation In-Reply-To: <489B06C0.9030001@esru.strath.ac.uk> References: <489B06C0.9030001@esru.strath.ac.uk> Message-ID: <200808071657.46733.aizaz.a.samuel@strath.ac.uk> Gunter, >the current version of ESP, v11.5, is able to do CO2-balances >for rooms in order to investigate room air quality, which is a >quite usefull facility. But - as far as I know - it has still >the limitation, that for a bidirectional air flow only the >net flow is taken into account for CO2-balance. Please note that contaminants prediction model takes into account bi-directional flows individually. Regards, Aizaz Dr Aizaz A Samuel Research Fellow Department of Mechanical Engineering University of Strathclyde M324 James Weir Building 75 Montrose Street Glasgow, UK G1 1XJ T:+44 141 548 5765 F:+44 141 552 5105 From burkhardt_bernd at yahoo.de Mon Aug 11 14:51:10 2008 From: burkhardt_bernd at yahoo.de (Bernd B.) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 13:51:10 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [esp-r] plant control: sense plant output Message-ID: <762539.65262.qm@web28211.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Dear all, I would like to control the flow of a pump (type 15, variable speed domestic WCH pump) according to the temperature of a specific plant component. In my case the component is called "air & water temperature source" (type 24). I already tried the controller types 9 (senses plant output; actuates flow), 16 (senses plant output; actuates variable), 22 (senses plant output; mass ration). All were connected with an on/off-controller. I got results without an error during the simulation. However the pump didn't run or react. I have already checked the setpoint and so on. Does anyone know how to control the pump according to plant component output (temperature) ??? Did I use the right components for that? Thanks! Best regards Bernd Ctl File: no overall control description supplied * Plant no plant control description supplied ?? 3? # No. of loops * Control loops # senses var in compt. 5: Source @ node no.? 1 ?? -1?? 5??? 1??? 0??? 0? # sensor # plant component?? 4:Pump_u @ node no.? 1 ?? -1??? 4??? 1??? 0? # actuator ??? 1 # No. day types ??? 1? 365? # valid Fri-01-Jan - Fri-31-Dec ???? 1? # No. of periods in day ??? 9??? 8?? 0.000? # ctl type, law (On-Off control.), start @ ????? 7.? # No. of data items ? -1.00000 19.00000 20.00000 0.00500 0.00000 0.00000 0.00000 * Control loops # reads measurements from a boundry data file. ?? -5??? 3??? 0??? 0??? 0? # sensor # plant component? 5: Source @ node no.? 1 ?? -1?? 5 ?? 1 ?? 0? # actuator ??? 1 # No. day types ??? 1? 365? # valid Fri-01-Jan - Fri-31-Dec ???? 1? # No. of periods in day ?? 12??? 6?? 0.000? # ctl type, law (Null controller.), start @ ????? 0.? # No. of data items __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Sie sind Spam leid? Yahoo! Mail verf?gt ?ber einen herausragenden Schutz gegen Massenmails. http://mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080811/83e6d071/attachment.html From aizaz.a.samuel at strath.ac.uk Mon Aug 11 17:17:37 2008 From: aizaz.a.samuel at strath.ac.uk (Aizaz Samuel) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 17:17:37 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: plant control: sense plant output In-Reply-To: <762539.65262.qm@web28211.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <762539.65262.qm@web28211.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200808111717.37082.aizaz.a.samuel@strath.ac.uk> Bernd, Take a look at the ADEPT project at sesg.strath.ac.uk, The project contains control files that control the WCH pump based on sensing thermostat output. Do note that the plant database is non-standard. Closer to home you may look at exemplars > systems and controls > with wet central heating systems. This model has a pump but does not have a control loop for it. Regards, Aizaz On Monday 11 August 2008 14:51, Bernd B. wrote: > Dear all, > > I would like to control the flow of a pump (type 15, variable speed > domestic WCH pump) according to the temperature of a specific plant > component. In my case the component is called "air & water temperature > source" (type 24). > > I already tried the controller types 9 (senses plant output; actuates > flow), 16 (senses plant output; actuates variable), 22 (senses plant > output; mass ration). All were connected with an on/off-controller. I got > results without an error during the simulation. However the pump didn't run > or react. I have already checked the setpoint and so on. > > Does anyone know how to control the pump according to plant component > output (temperature) ??? Did I use the right components for that? > > Thanks! > Best regards > Bernd > > > Ctl File: > > no overall control description supplied > * Plant > no plant control description supplied > 3 # No. of loops > * Control loops > # senses var in compt. 5: Source @ node no. 1 > -1 5 1 0 0 # sensor > # plant component 4:Pump_u @ node no. 1 > -1 4 1 0 # actuator > 1 # No. day types > 1 365 # valid Fri-01-Jan - Fri-31-Dec > 1 # No. of periods in day > 9 8 0.000 # ctl type, law (On-Off control.), start @ > 7. # No. of data items > -1.00000 19.00000 20.00000 0.00500 0.00000 0.00000 0.00000 > * Control loops > # reads measurements from a boundry data file. > -5 3 0 0 0 # sensor > # plant component 5: Source @ node no. 1 > -1 5 1 0 # actuator > 1 # No. day types > 1 365 # valid Fri-01-Jan - Fri-31-Dec > 1 # No. of periods in day > 12 6 0.000 # ctl type, law (Null controller.), start @ > 0. # No. of data items > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Sie sind Spam leid? Yahoo! Mail verf?gt ?ber einen herausragenden Schutz > gegen Massenmails. http://mail.yahoo.com From Leen.Peeters at mech.kuleuven.be Thu Aug 14 23:42:40 2008 From: Leen.Peeters at mech.kuleuven.be (Leen Peeters) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 00:42:40 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: esp-r commit log, lpeeters, 3393 In-Reply-To: <200808142230.m7EMUMKt001312@hollowtrees.cvsdude.com> References: <200808142230.m7EMUMKt001312@hollowtrees.cvsdude.com> Message-ID: <1218753760.48a4b4e022c71@webmail1.kuleuven.be> now with comments... The geneeric heat emitter/absorber model has been adapted to account for mixed natural convection-forced convection and radiation effects. Therefore an additional input was required. The penalty functions for the optimisation have consequently been adapted. The upper and lower limit of physically impossible values of the radiatorexponent are removed friom the solutions of the optimisation process by adding high values to the cost function. Quoting Leen Peeters : > COMMIT LOG MESSAGE > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > CHANGE-SET SUMMARY > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > A summary of these changes is available at: > > http://node9.cvsdude.com/trac/espr/esp-r/changeset/3393 > > CHANGE LOG > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > U branches/Leen_Peeters/src/esrubld/bcfunc.F > U branches/Leen_Peeters/src/esrubld/bcsub.F > U branches/Leen_Peeters/src/esruprj/bpfcontrl.F > > REVISION HISTORY > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Revisions: > - http://node9.cvsdude.com/trac/espr/esp-r/log/?verbose=on > > Source tree: > - http://node9.cvsdude.com/trac/espr/esp-r/browser > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > ESP-r Central is a source code repository that provides access to > ESP-r source code for all users and developers. Please contact Alex > Ferguson (aferguso at nrcan.gc.ca) if you have questions about your > ESP-r central account. > > > -- Provided by, CVSDude, http://cvsdude.com. Professional CVS and > SVN outsourcing -- > Disclaimer: http://www.kuleuven.be/cwis/email_disclaimer.htm From tobias.zitzmann at ise.fraunhofer.de Wed Aug 13 15:50:10 2008 From: tobias.zitzmann at ise.fraunhofer.de (Tobias Zitzmann) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 16:50:10 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] combination of plant and airflow network Message-ID: <48A2F4A2.3080200@ise.fraunhofer.de> Hi, in our institute we are trying to use a plant and an airflow network in ESP-r at the same time in our model: The plant network should work as a supply and exhaust system of a building which itself consists of many zones. The air flow network should calculate the air flow through the building at the same time. Can anybody give an advice on how to connect (i) plant and airflow network at their interfaces and how to connect (i) plant to zones when the building exists of MANY zones. The examples in ESP-r didn't help, since they are based only on ONE air zone. We would appreciate if anybody could help. Thanks in advance Tobias From jake.zwart at sympatico.ca Fri Aug 15 16:25:37 2008 From: jake.zwart at sympatico.ca (Jake Zwart) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 11:25:37 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] esp-r as a web application In-Reply-To: <48A2F4A2.3080200@ise.fraunhofer.de> Message-ID: Hi all, If anyone wants some fun they presumably can setup esp-r as a web application using the following scenerio. Run OpenOffice and Linux applications on your Windows desktop Just got word about an interesting new "software as a service" offering called Ulteo. With it, you can run the OpenOffice suite without installing it on your computer, in your web browser. You can also share your OpenOffice session with others. You get a GB of free storage, too. This is called the Ulteo Online Desktop. Another feature, Ulteo Virtual Desktop, lets you run Linux apps in a window on Vista. Note that you need the Java Runtime environment plug-in and if you have multiple Java VMs running, you may get error messages and the browser may lock up. It took a little tweaking to get it working, but once it did, it works pretty well. http://www.vistanews.com/WB25IX/080814-Ulteo-Online-Desktop http://www.vistanews.com/WB25IX/080814-Ulteo-Virtual-Desktop From Monika.Hall at josef-gartner.ch Mon Aug 18 08:10:01 2008 From: Monika.Hall at josef-gartner.ch (Hall Monika) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 09:10:01 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: combination of plant and airflow network References: <48A2F4A2.3080200@ise.fraunhofer.de> Message-ID: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C4F5859@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Hi Tobias, attached you will find a xxx.pln file with the connection to a flow network. i) connect plant and airflow network at their interfaces: see at "plant network connection", the number of component/node/component is connected to the node/dhight/node number of the flow network. (ii) plant to zones when the building exists of MANY zones: See "supl1" beside "diversion ratio". I had a lot of trouble to create the connection in my small model, but in the end it works. Good luck. Regards Monika -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Tobias Zitzmann Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2008 4:50 PM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] combination of plant and airflow network Hi, in our institute we are trying to use a plant and an airflow network in ESP-r at the same time in our model: The plant network should work as a supply and exhaust system of a building which itself consists of many zones. The air flow network should calculate the air flow through the building at the same time. Can anybody give an advice on how to connect (i) plant and airflow network at their interfaces and how to connect (i) plant to zones when the building exists of MANY zones. The examples in ESP-r didn't help, since they are based only on ONE air zone. We would appreciate if anybody could help. Thanks in advance Tobias _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Connection_plant_flownetwork.pdf Type: application/octet-stream Size: 217546 bytes Desc: Connection_plant_flownetwork.pdf Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080818/830b4463/attachment-0001.obj From Leen.Peeters at mech.kuleuven.be Tue Aug 19 12:32:28 2008 From: Leen.Peeters at mech.kuleuven.be (Leen Peeters) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 13:32:28 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] commit fails Message-ID: <1219145548.48aaaf4c11bd1@webmail2.kuleuven.be> Dear all I try to commit, getting the following message 'svn: Commit failed (details follow): svn: Aborting commit: '/home/lpeeters/Src/Leen_Peeters/src/esrubld/bcfunc.F' remains in conflict However in that particular file no '<<<<<' or '>>>>>' or 'mine' is to be found. Any suggestions on how this could be solved? Leen Disclaimer: http://www.kuleuven.be/cwis/email_disclaimer.htm From Leen.Peeters at mech.kuleuven.be Tue Aug 19 13:03:09 2008 From: Leen.Peeters at mech.kuleuven.be (Leen Peeters) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 14:03:09 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: commit fails In-Reply-To: <1219145548.48aaaf4c11bd1@webmail2.kuleuven.be> References: <1219145548.48aaaf4c11bd1@webmail2.kuleuven.be> Message-ID: <1219147389.48aab67d4aa05@webmail2.kuleuven.be> solved ;-) Quoting Leen Peeters : > Dear all > > I try to commit, getting the following message 'svn: Commit failed > (details follow): > svn: Aborting commit: > '/home/lpeeters/Src/Leen_Peeters/src/esrubld/bcfunc.F' remains in > conflict > > > However in that particular file no '<<<<<' or '>>>>>' or 'mine' is to > be > found. > > Any suggestions on how this could be solved? > > > Leen > > Disclaimer: http://www.kuleuven.be/cwis/email_disclaimer.htm > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > Disclaimer: http://www.kuleuven.be/cwis/email_disclaimer.htm From burkhardt_bernd at yahoo.de Thu Aug 21 09:05:12 2008 From: burkhardt_bernd at yahoo.de (Bernd B.) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 08:05:12 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [esp-r] Control of a plant component Message-ID: <358484.52029.qm@web28205.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Dear all, I have a question concerning the control of a plant component: I would like to control the mass flow of a pump (type 15, variable speed domestic WCH pump) according to a temperature difference between two plant components. I know how to do that with a constant mass flow of the pump. However I want to use variable mass flow. Somehow I cannot combine a? *variable controller* with the *controller type "temperature difference*"! In my view it's not possible to do that with a usual control function. Does anyone know how to get that done? Thanks! Best regards Bernd __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Sie sind Spam leid? Yahoo! Mail verf?gt ?ber einen herausragenden Schutz gegen Massenmails. http://mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080821/e5eb542b/attachment.html From Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch Fri Aug 22 07:28:45 2008 From: Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch (Geissler Achim) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 08:28:45 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Control of a plant component References: <358484.52029.qm@web28205.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C4F5C06@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Hi Bernd, maybe I could help a little bit (although I am not quite sure what you mean with ?variable controller? vs. ?constant mass flow? as the mass flow would be controlled), but please first state your affiliation. Regards, Achim ________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Bernd B. Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 10:05 AM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Control of a plant component Dear all, I have a question concerning the control of a plant component: I would like to control the mass flow of a pump (type 15, variable speed domestic WCH pump) according to a temperature difference between two plant components. I know how to do that with a constant mass flow of the pump. However I want to use variable mass flow. Somehow I cannot combine a *variable controller* with the *controller type "temperature difference*"! In my view it's not possible to do that with a usual control function. Does anyone know how to get that done? Thanks! Best regards Bernd __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Sie sind Spam leid? Yahoo! Mail verf?gt ?ber einen herausragenden Schutz gegen Massenmails. http://mail.yahoo..com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080822/ccfc09bc/attachment.html From paul at esru.strath.ac.uk Fri Aug 22 14:57:57 2008 From: paul at esru.strath.ac.uk (Paul Strachan) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 14:57:57 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Building Simulation '09: call for abstracts reminder Message-ID: <48AEC5E5.10202@esru.strath.ac.uk> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080822/7690dbf0/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Wed Aug 27 03:10:26 2008 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 03:10:26 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] test OSX version of ESP-r available - need volunteers Message-ID: We have had some reports that the current ESP-r installer script for the OSX version of ESP-r is not working on some computers. I have created a tar file for the X11 version and one for the GTK version. Both are designed to be extracted to the /opt folder (so /opt must exist and you will probably have to do a 'sudo' command to uncompress and extract the tar.gz file in the /opt folder. And as usual you will have to update your PATH environment variable to include an entry for /opt/esru/esp-r/bin. You will also have to have X11 running on your Mac. The setting up instructions for OSX are on the download site page. The executables were created on a PPC Mac but they should run ok in emulation on an intel based Apple machine. If anyone is willing to test this out please let me know and I will use send-this-file to send you a link for downloading. Regards, Jon Hand From obrien_liam at hotmail.com Wed Aug 27 04:48:06 2008 From: obrien_liam at hotmail.com (Liam O'Brien) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 23:48:06 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] PV modeling Message-ID: Hello all, I'm interested in modeling a PV panel only without the effects of network losses, an inverter, etc. Ideally I would have liked to merely have a single node "network" that the PV panel is connected to. However, ESP-r is not allowing me to do so, stating that "Error: Node 1 PV_node is not connected to the network." Is there any way around this? While I could model a more detailed network, the configurations I have tried consistently give me errors. (Even if the "check network for errors" passed, bps quits without warning when I try to initiate a simulation. Are there any good sources of information for modeling electrical networks? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. Liam _________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080826/8c6af3bb/attachment.html From nick at esru.strath.ac.uk Wed Aug 27 09:09:12 2008 From: nick at esru.strath.ac.uk (Nicolas Kelly) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 09:09:12 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: PV modeling References: Message-ID: <47BBFC6D736E714E8B490CEED8C1CCB402A14614@BE-SCAM2.ds.strath.ac.uk> Liam, To get round this problem you will need to have a fixed voltage node somewhere in your electrical network - without this the network cannot be solved. The simplest network I use for this type of problem is two node: 1. fixed voltage node (i.e. the grid) 2. pv node Connect both nodes together with a very low resitance cable and couple the PV panel or panels to the pv node - this should work OK. Regards, Nick Kelly on behalf of ESRU ________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk on behalf of Liam O'Brien Sent: Wed 27/08/2008 04:48 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] PV modeling Hello all, I'm interested in modeling a PV panel only without the effects of network losses, an inverter, etc. Ideally I would have liked to merely have a single node "network" that the PV panel is connected to. However, ESP-r is not allowing me to do so, stating that "Error: Node 1 PV_node is not connected to the network." Is there any way around this? While I could model a more detailed network, the configurations I have tried consistently give me errors. (Even if the "check network for errors" passed, bps quits without warning when I try to initiate a simulation. Are there any good sources of information for modeling electrical networks? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. Liam ________________________________ From anton.driesse at gmail.com Thu Aug 28 15:12:41 2008 From: anton.driesse at gmail.com (Anton Driesse) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 10:12:41 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] Looking for comments on the photovoltaic inverter model (PCU) Message-ID: I have done some work on characterizing photovoltaic inverters, and would like to hear from active users whether the existing PCU model in ESP-r has any shortcomings, problems, or quirks that should be improved. Positive comments are welcome too of course. :) Anton -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080828/74643ffd/attachment.html From obrien_liam at hotmail.com Mon Sep 1 03:01:50 2008 From: obrien_liam at hotmail.com (Liam O'Brien) Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2008 22:01:50 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] Re: PV modeling In-Reply-To: <47BBFC6D736E714E8B490CEED8C1CCB402A14614@BE-SCAM2.ds.strath.ac.uk> References: <47BBFC6D736E714E8B490CEED8C1CCB402A14614@BE-SCAM2.ds.strath.ac.uk> Message-ID: Thanks very much, Nick. I finally got it working. I have a follow-up question; this goes to anyone. I've been analyzing the results and there's a bit of an inconsistency on a monthly basis. In the summer months, the average efficiency (electrical output divided by incident radiation) that I calculated is several percentage points higher than the panels specs. But in the winter months, it's very low (around 2%, vs. the 7% expected). Looking closely, this seems to be caused by some arbitrary threshold of solar radiation (around 260 W/m^2), below which the PV produces no electricity. So my horizontal PV panel produces little electricity even on a sunny winter day (lat=44N). Any idea what might be causing this? I'm using the Amorphous Watsun model. Interestingly, the annual performance matches what I would expect; just not the monthly breakdown. This could be a coincidence. The same building model but with the simple PV model behaves exactly as expected. Thanks. Liam > Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 09:09:12 +0100 > From: nick at esru.strath.ac.uk > To: obrien_liam at hotmail.com; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Subject: [esp-r] Re: PV modeling > > Liam, > > To get round this problem you will need to have a fixed voltage node somewhere in your electrical network - without this the network cannot be solved. The simplest network I use for this type of problem is two node: > > 1. fixed voltage node (i.e. the grid) > > 2. pv node > > Connect both nodes together with a very low resitance cable and couple the PV panel or panels to the pv node - this should work OK. > > Regards, > > Nick Kelly on behalf of ESRU > > ________________________________ > > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk on behalf of Liam O'Brien > Sent: Wed 27/08/2008 04:48 > To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Subject: [esp-r] PV modeling > > > Hello all, > > I'm interested in modeling a PV panel only without the effects of network losses, an inverter, etc. Ideally I would have liked to merely have a single node "network" that the PV panel is connected to. However, ESP-r is not allowing me to do so, stating that "Error: Node 1 PV_node is not connected to the network." > > Is there any way around this? While I could model a more detailed network, the configurations I have tried consistently give me errors. (Even if the "check network for errors" passed, bps quits without warning when I try to initiate a simulation. > > Are there any good sources of information for modeling electrical networks? > > Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. > > Liam > > > ________________________________ > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r _________________________________________________________________ If you like crossword puzzles, then you'll love Flexicon, a game which combines four overlapping crossword puzzles into one! http://g.msn.ca/ca55/208 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080831/4988ae67/attachment.html From obrien_liam at hotmail.com Mon Sep 1 16:54:10 2008 From: obrien_liam at hotmail.com (Liam O'Brien) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2008 11:54:10 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] Source code viewing Message-ID: Hello, I'm interested in looking at ESP-r source code. In my subversion client, when I try to checkout the source code, a login is requested. I just want to view the release version. What is the login/password? I tried leaving the fields blank to no avail. Thanks. Liam _________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080901/a88459f6/attachment.html From obrien_liam at hotmail.com Mon Sep 1 22:37:17 2008 From: obrien_liam at hotmail.com (Liam O'Brien) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2008 17:37:17 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Source code viewing - GOT IT WORKING In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'm not sure what changed, but I got it working. Liam From: obrien_liam at hotmail.com To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2008 11:54:10 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] Source code viewing Hello, I'm interested in looking at ESP-r source code. In my subversion client, when I try to checkout the source code, a login is requested. I just want to view the release version. What is the login/password? I tried leaving the fields blank to no avail. Thanks. Liam _________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080901/83c46035/attachment.html From froshin at dasskorea.com Tue Sep 9 07:28:52 2008 From: froshin at dasskorea.com (=?euc-kr?B?TGV3aXMgWW9vaw==?=) Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2008 15:28:52 +0900 Subject: [esp-r] =?euc-kr?q?_gbXML_and_esp-r?= Message-ID: <12209417324214382@froshin> Hello, every friend? Recently I am very interested in developing a converting program that imports the gbXML data into esp-r input files. I think it might be a really challenging work and there are many things to consider of. The importance of this kind of converting tool, however, is getting bigger. For example, Korean government began to require 3D drawings for new building projects plans and its approvals in some area. This kind of requirment will be extended to other public and civil projects for the accuracy and efficiency of many kinds of evaluations. In my opinion, It will be followed by developing of the building energy simulation tools that is much accessible by designers (not simulation experts). If we can suggest any idea about the converting process of the gbXML data into esp-r input files, it will open a great opportunity for the expending market. Is there someone who also have similar idea? Feel free to share your dream! Lewis Yook Team Manager, Integrated Simulation Unit. Design and Simulation for Sustainability (DASS) consultants Ltd. 143-834 Venture Support Center 304-ho 632-9 Guui-dong Gwangjin-gu, Seoul, Korea T. 82.2.913.2585 F. 82.2.949.2585 H. www.dasskorea.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080909/dfab1107/attachment.html From obrien_liam at hotmail.com Tue Sep 9 16:18:57 2008 From: obrien_liam at hotmail.com (Liam O'Brien) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 11:18:57 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] Disappearing constructions Message-ID: Hello all, I am trying to add newly defined wall construction to the default constructions database. My new one appears on the list at first, but when I save the database and return to it seconds later, it is gone. Does anyone know how to prevent this? I dug a little deeper a discovered that changing the file directly does not cause the database, as it appears in ESP-r, to update. I am using the Linux version of ESP-r, v11.5. Any advice would be appreciated. Thank you! Liam _________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080909/57b5e451/attachment.html From holger.bertling at gmx.de Tue Sep 9 18:47:24 2008 From: holger.bertling at gmx.de (Holger Bertling) Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2008 19:47:24 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Disappearing constructions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1220982444.6391.13.camel@d> Hi Liam, I think the default databases are in folders with only root-write-rights. Maybe it is better to change the consturction-path in the database maintanance to a folder with normal rights and copy the default list there. It seems that the most default databases are linked to binary files or something and the files you can read with an editor were not used and are maybe only ment for reading. Does this help? Best regards, Holger Am Dienstag, den 09.09.2008, 11:18 -0400 schrieb Liam O'Brien: > Hello all, > > I am trying to add newly defined wall construction to the default > constructions database. My new one appears on the list at first, but > when I save the database and return to it seconds later, it is gone. > Does anyone know how to prevent this? > > I dug a little deeper a discovered that changing the file directly > does not cause the database, as it appears in ESP-r, to update. > I am using the Linux version of ESP-r, v11.5. > > Any advice would be appreciated. Thank you! > > Liam > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > Upgrade to Hotmail Plus and share more photos with bigger attachments. > Click here to find out how Click here to find out how > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Wed Sep 10 05:23:50 2008 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 05:23:50 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Disappearing constructions References: Message-ID: An alternative approach. In the database management menu use the option to copy the standard database into your model. Add the new item(s) there and prove that they work. The useing the opearting system copy the extended file from your model dbx folder into the standard databases folder (you may have to temporarily become the user who owns the standard esp-r databases folder to do this). -Jon Hand -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk on behalf of Liam O'Brien Sent: Tue 9/9/2008 4:18 PM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Disappearing constructions Hello all, I am trying to add newly defined wall construction to the default constructions database. My new one appears on the list at first, but when I save the database and return to it seconds later, it is gone. Does anyone know how to prevent this? I dug a little deeper a discovered that changing the file directly does not cause the database, as it appears in ESP-r, to update. I am using the Linux version of ESP-r, v11.5. Any advice would be appreciated. Thank you! Liam _________________________________________________________________ From flo at opensynergy.co.za Wed Sep 10 07:11:05 2008 From: flo at opensynergy.co.za (Florian Kroll) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 08:11:05 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] downloading esp-r Message-ID: <48C764F9.70401@opensynergy.co.za> Hi all, I have trried to download esp-r from the net, but am having great difficulty. The browser itself displays the entire code, which takes a while to download, and then I can't save it or run the install script. Please help, Flo -- Florian Kroll, MA Open Synergy Towards sustainability and health - consultation - design - training - installation - technology - website: http://www.opensynergy.co.za/ weblog: http://blog.opensynergy.co.za/ email: flo at opensynergy.co.za cell: 0725010756 landline: 011 608 1082 From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Wed Sep 10 09:12:11 2008 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 09:12:11 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: downloading esp-r References: <48C764F9.70401@opensynergy.co.za> Message-ID: The University web page is strict. If you were using internet explorer to try and access it...try an alternative browser and see if that works. You may need to right-click on the link and do a save-target-as. -Jon Hand -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk on behalf of Florian Kroll Sent: Wed 9/10/2008 7:11 AM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] downloading esp-r Hi all, I have trried to download esp-r from the net, but am having great difficulty. The browser itself displays the entire code, which takes a while to download, and then I can't save it or run the install script. Please help, Flo -- Florian Kroll, MA Open Synergy Towards sustainability and health - consultation - design - training - installation - technology - website: http://www.opensynergy.co.za/ weblog: http://blog.opensynergy.co.za/ email: flo at opensynergy.co.za cell: 0725010756 landline: 011 608 1082 _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Thu Sep 11 07:35:53 2008 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 07:35:53 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] New edition of the ESP-r cookbook and matched exercises are now available. Message-ID: ESRU is pleased to announce the September 2008 version of the ESP-r Cookbook and the Exercises Volume are now availabe as PDF files on the publications page of the ESRU web site Below is the table of contents of the revised Cookbook. Note: some of the new chapters (e.g. CFD) include only an introduction and will be completed at a later date. ------------------------------------------------------- THE ESP-r COOKBOOK Strategies for Deploying Virtual Representations of the Build Environment Jon William Hand B.Sc., M.Arch., PhD Energy Systems Research Unit Department of Mechanical Engineering University of Strathclyde, Glasgow, UK. 4 September, 2008 - - - Table of Contents Abstract . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . v Acknowledgements . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . vi 1 Introduction . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 1.1 Tactical approaches . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 1.2 The client specification . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 1.3 Design questions . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 1.4 Model planning . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 1.5 Model coordinates . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 1.6 How the building is used . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 13 1.7 Environmental controls . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 17 1.8 Model composition . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 20 2 Building a model . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 22 2.1 Review of climate patterns and databases . . . . . . . . . . 26 2.2 Locating constructions for our model . . . . . . . . . . . . 31 2.3 Zone composition tactics . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 33 2.4 Model topology . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 50 3 Geometry alternative inputs . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 52 3.1 To the keyboard . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 53 3.2 Clicking on a bitmap . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 57 3.3 Examples of approaches to take . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 58 4 3D Modelling . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 63 4.1 Modelling approaches . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 64 4.2 Steps to create a roof space . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 68 4.3 Shading obstructions . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 73 5 Schedules . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 75 5.1 Scheduled air flows . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 79 5.2 Importing operation schedules . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 79 6 Climate data . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 82 6.1 Importing climate data . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 82 6.2 Defining seasons and typical periods . . . . . . . . . . . . 83 6.3 Climatelist entries . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 87 7 Zone environmental control . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 90 8 Thermophysical resolution . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 92 9 Preparation for simulation . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 94 10 Understanding performance predictions . . . . . . . . . . . . . 97 11 Flow networks . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 100 11.1 Limitations of Scheduled Flow . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 100 11.2 Fluid Flow Networks . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 100 11.3 Building blocks . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 102 11.3.1 Flow components . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 103 11.3.2 Flow connections . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 104 11.4 Steps in creating a network . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 106 11.5 A simple network . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 108 11.6 To the keyboard... . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 111 11.7 Calibrating flow models . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 115 11.8 Flow control . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 118 11.9 To the keyboard... . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 120 11.10 Window representations . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 124 11.10.1 Component selection . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 126 11.11 Schedules vs networks . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 128 11.12 Limitation of Network flow . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 134 12 Detailed flow via CFD . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 136 13 Plant . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 139 13.1 Using a component network to represent mechanical ven- tilation . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 140 13.2 Defining containments . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 146 13.3 Finishing off the model and testing . . . . . . . . . . . . 146 13.4 Moving from ideal demands to thermal zone demands . . . . . 149 13.5 Links to zones and controls . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 153 14 Working procedures . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 158 14.1 How can the vendor help? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 159 14.2 Responsibilities within simulation teams . . . . . . . . . 159 14.3 Classic mistakes . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 160 14.4 Planning simulation projects . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 161 14.5 Team manager . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 165 14.6 The quality manager . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 167 14.7 Simulation staff . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 171 14.8 The mentor . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 174 14.9 The domain expert . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 176 14.10 Staff productivity . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 178 14.11 Summary . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 179 15 Model Quality . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 180 15.1 How can the vendor help? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 180 15.2 Responsibilities within simulation teams . . . . . . . . . 182 15.3 Model planning . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 185 15.4 Complexity . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 186 15.5 Multi-criteria assessments . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 187 15.6 Semantic checks . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 191 15.7 Team Checklists . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 193 15.8 Simulation outputs . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 199 15.9 The model contents report . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 202 15.10 Summary . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 209 16 Install Appendix . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 211 17 Version Appendix . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 218 17.1 Text mode . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 218 17.2 Legacy X11 graphics . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 221 17.3 GTK+ graphics . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 223 18 ESP-r capabilities . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 226 18.1 General modelling features . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 227 18.2 Zone Loads . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 228 18.3 Building envelope and day-lighting . . . . . . . . . . . . 229 18.4 Infiltration ventilation and multi-zone air flow . . . . . 230 18.5 Renewable energy systems and electrical systems . . . . . . 231 18.6 Ideal environmental controls . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 232 18.7 Component based systems . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 233 18.8 Environmental emissions . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 234 18.9 Climate data . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 234 18.10 Results reporting . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 235 18.11 Validation . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 236 - - - ABSTRACT This Cookbook uses the general purpose simulation suite ESP-r as a platform to explore strategies for deploying virtual representations of the built environment to answer questions posed in the real world of design and research groups. The Cookbook talks about translating client questions into virtual rep- resentations that are no more and no less complex than is required for the task. It talks about re-discovering the power of pencils and paper and it dares to mention the word methodology. And discovering valuable patterns in the clutter and then learning the art of responding to what if questions. And since the author is professionally paranoid you might pick up some new definitions of the word QA. Almost all of the strategies presented can be applied to the task of creating elegant virtual representations in other simulation suites. Readers might alert their colleagues to take a peak. From paul at esru.strath.ac.uk Mon Sep 15 12:23:32 2008 From: paul at esru.strath.ac.uk (Paul Strachan) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 12:23:32 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] ESP-r introductory course Message-ID: <48CE45B4.2070706@esru.strath.ac.uk> The next introductory course in Glasgow will be held on October 13th and 14th 2008. This will be a fast-paced 2-day course which will go through the steps necessary to plan and create models, undertake simulations and extract a range of performance metrics. Attention will also be paid to creation of simple airflow networks and environmental controls. It should also be possible to accommodate those with a specific building design project in mind. Details can be found on the ESRU website www.esru.strath.ac.uk Regards Paul From cah at byg.dtu.dk Wed Sep 17 16:44:36 2008 From: cah at byg.dtu.dk (Christian Anker Hviid) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 17:44:36 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] How to include net_flow_large.h Message-ID: <78B14BBA2B77DF4186B975430E16648B0D0DC3@mail3.byg.dtu.dk> Hello esp-r community I am modeling a rather large air flow network and want to use net_flow_large.h that allows up to 199 connections. How do I include this file in my compiled esp-r? Best regards Christian Anker Hviid Industrial PhD candidate DTU BYG Technical University of Denmark Brovej, building 118 DK-2800 Lyngby Phone DTU: +45 4525 1886 Phone Alectia: +45 8819 1365 Mail: cah at byg.dtu.dk From AFerguso at NRCan.gc.ca Wed Sep 17 17:13:46 2008 From: AFerguso at NRCan.gc.ca (Ferguson, Alex) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 12:13:46 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] Re: How to include net_flow_large.h In-Reply-To: <78B14BBA2B77DF4186B975430E16648B0D0DC3@mail3.byg.dtu.dk> References: <78B14BBA2B77DF4186B975430E16648B0D0DC3@mail3.byg.dtu.dk> Message-ID: Hi Christian, You'll first need to replace net_flow.h with the net_flow_large.h file, and then recompile the source code using the 'Install' script. You may want to make a copy of the original net_flow.h file (perhaps calling it net_flow_small.h), in case you need to revert your installation back to the standard distribution later. Alex Ferguson Sustainable Buildings and Communities (Housing Group) CANMET Energy Technology Centre Natural Resources Canada P:+1 613 995 3294 F:+1 613 996 9909 Alex.Ferguson at nrcan.gc.ca -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Christian Anker Hviid Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 11:45 AM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] How to include net_flow_large.h Hello esp-r community I am modeling a rather large air flow network and want to use net_flow_large.h that allows up to 199 connections. How do I include this file in my compiled esp-r? Best regards Christian Anker Hviid Industrial PhD candidate DTU BYG Technical University of Denmark Brovej, building 118 DK-2800 Lyngby Phone DTU: +45 4525 1886 Phone Alectia: +45 8819 1365 Mail: cah at byg.dtu.dk _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From xijiayu at hotmail.com Fri Sep 19 21:16:13 2008 From: xijiayu at hotmail.com (wong ing liang) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 20:16:13 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] copy model Message-ID: Dear ESP-r users, I would like to copy several models from one computer to another. What is the correct procedures of doing it? I am working on Window version 11.4 and have downloaded esp-r software in another computer. I tried to copy whole model folder from C/esru/Models to the same directory of the new computer. When I opened the building model, some problems existed: Material db reference 111 has no data, or all zero... 112 15 Please check your selection! Material db reference 268 has no data, or all zero... 269 15 Please check your selection! Simulations and result analysis functions are not perfoming well too. Anyone knows how to resolve the problem? Many thanks. Regards, Wong _________________________________________________________________ Easily publish your photos to your Spaces with Photo Gallery. http://get.live.com/photogallery/overview -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080919/a219eeb4/attachment.html From georgios at esru.strath.ac.uk Mon Sep 22 09:33:37 2008 From: georgios at esru.strath.ac.uk (Georgios Kokogiannakis) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 09:33:37 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: copy model In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200809220933.37850.georgios@esru.strath.ac.uk> Dear Wong, the error you are getting is because you transfer the model without the associated databases (at least the materials database). It is a (very) common error when trying to transfer ESP-r models to another location. You have two choices: Either open the model by ignoring all the errors and click on database maintenance. After this, click on materials, constructions, optical databases and copy the default databases (depending on the model, you may have to do it for other databases too). Save your model and then you will not get any errors the next time you open it. Alternative, in order to avoid all these clicks open the cfg file of your model with an editor (in your case you can use Wordpad in Windows) and see the lines below "* DATABASES". Check where the materials, constructions and optics are pointing. They are the lines that they start with "*prm", "*mlc", "*opt". They are probably pointing (for Windows) to C:/Esru/esp-r/databases Change these 3 lines to point to "..\dbs/constr.db3" for Windows or "../dbs/constr.db3" for Linux. Replace "constr.db3" with the names of the databases you are using. After this go inside C:/Esru/esp-r/databases and copy/paste the 3 files in your models dbs folder (if you have a dbs folder). Your model will then work fine the next you open it. I prefer the second option. Perhaps the default databases should be copied automatically each time somebody creates a model instead of using hardwired locations(? Regards, Georgios On Friday 19 September 2008 21:16, wong ing liang wrote: > Dear ESP-r users, > > I would like to copy several models from one computer to another. What is > the correct procedures of doing it? > > I am working on Window version 11.4 and have downloaded esp-r software in > another computer. I tried to copy whole model folder from C/esru/Models to > the same directory of the new computer. When I opened the building model, > some problems existed: > > Material db reference 111 has no data, or all zero... 112 15 Please check > your selection! Material db reference 268 has no data, or all zero... 269 > 15 Please check your selection! > > Simulations and result analysis functions are not perfoming well too. > Anyone knows how to resolve the problem? > > Many thanks. > > Regards, > Wong > _________________________________________________________________ > Easily publish your photos to your Spaces with Photo Gallery. > http://get.live.com/photogallery/overview -- Energy Systems Research Unit (ESRU) Department of Mechanical Engineering University of Strathclyde From carlos.simoes.santos at clix.pt Mon Sep 22 10:08:58 2008 From: carlos.simoes.santos at clix.pt (Carlos Santos) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 10:08:58 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Bom dia Message-ID: <52113.1222074538@clix.pt> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080922/40468361/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Mon Sep 22 10:17:59 2008 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 10:17:59 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: copy model References: <200809220933.37850.georgios@esru.strath.ac.uk> Message-ID: There is work underway to provide an alternative key word for databases that are in the so-called standard databases folder so that the full path is not saved in the configuration file but is re-generated on-the-fly based on the standard path to the database folder on the current machine. This has been done for 3 of the databases, but not yet for materials and constructions. Another technique - if you alter your standard databases and add new items to it and you want to send models to other people then you should ensure that the altered database is copied into your model folders and referenced locally. There is an option in the project manager database maintenance menu to copy the standard database into the model. -Jon -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk on behalf of Georgios Kokogiannakis Sent: Mon 9/22/2008 9:33 AM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Re: copy model Dear Wong, the error you are getting is because you transfer the model without the associated databases (at least the materials database). It is a (very) common error when trying to transfer ESP-r models to another location. You have two choices: Either open the model by ignoring all the errors and click on database maintenance. After this, click on materials, constructions, optical databases and copy the default databases (depending on the model, you may have to do it for other databases too). Save your model and then you will not get any errors the next time you open it. Alternative, in order to avoid all these clicks open the cfg file of your model with an editor (in your case you can use Wordpad in Windows) and see the lines below "* DATABASES". Check where the materials, constructions and optics are pointing. They are the lines that they start with "*prm", "*mlc", "*opt". They are probably pointing (for Windows) to C:/Esru/esp-r/databases Change these 3 lines to point to "..\dbs/constr.db3" for Windows or "../dbs/constr.db3" for Linux. Replace "constr.db3" with the names of the databases you are using. After this go inside C:/Esru/esp-r/databases and copy/paste the 3 files in your models dbs folder (if you have a dbs folder). Your model will then work fine the next you open it. I prefer the second option. Perhaps the default databases should be copied automatically each time somebody creates a model instead of using hardwired locations(? Regards, Georgios On Friday 19 September 2008 21:16, wong ing liang wrote: > Dear ESP-r users, > > I would like to copy several models from one computer to another. What is > the correct procedures of doing it? > > I am working on Window version 11.4 and have downloaded esp-r software in > another computer. I tried to copy whole model folder from C/esru/Models to > the same directory of the new computer. When I opened the building model, > some problems existed: > > Material db reference 111 has no data, or all zero... 112 15 Please check > your selection! Material db reference 268 has no data, or all zero... 269 > 15 Please check your selection! > > Simulations and result analysis functions are not perfoming well too. > Anyone knows how to resolve the problem? > > Many thanks. > > Regards, > Wong > _________________________________________________________________ > Easily publish your photos to your Spaces with Photo Gallery. > http://get.live.com/photogallery/overview -- Energy Systems Research Unit (ESRU) Department of Mechanical Engineering University of Strathclyde _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From Monika.Hall at josef-gartner.ch Mon Sep 29 12:12:10 2008 From: Monika.Hall at josef-gartner.ch (Hall Monika) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 13:12:10 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] shading & insolation analysis with new *.geo format Message-ID: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C514680@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Dear all, did anyone tried the shading & insolation analysis with the new *.geo format? My model is a simple box with one glazing (exterior). I create this with vs. 3412 and get the old *.geo format. The shading insolation was no problem. But when I change into the new format style, I get the message "No insolation source surface found!". This problem appears when I create the geometry, change into the new format and try the insolation. If I make the geometry, do insolation, change into the new geometry style and do the insolation again, then the insolation is ok. It depends on the sequence! Old *.geo format # X co-ord, Y co-ord, Z co-ord 0.00000 0.00000 0.00000 # vert 1 5.00000 0.00000 0.00000 # vert 2 5.00000 3.00000 0.00000 # vert 3 .... new *.geo format # tag, X co-ord, Y co-ord, Z co-ord *vertex,0.00000,0.00000,0.00000 # 1 *vertex,5.00000,0.00000,0.00000 # 2 *vertex,5.00000,3.00000,0.00000 # 3 .... Regards Monika -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20080929/07441f0d/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Mon Sep 29 13:41:29 2008 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 13:41:29 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: shading & insolation analysis with new *.geo format References: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C514680@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Message-ID: The traditional approach to doing automatic shading and insolation calculation was to assume all applicable surfaces were included for shading and insolation. If you wanted to be more specific you had to re-calculate with a manual selection. There is an additional dialogue in the project manager when working with the new geometry format that allows you to pre-specify which surfaces to include in shading as well as which insolation sources you want. Ish will then use these directives. This issue described probably is related to this dialog in the project manager - prj is expecting you to give an opinion prior to running the shading calculations. The automatic translation to the new format probably does not fill in these values unless a shading analysis has already been done. If after upgrading the geometry format your opinion about shading and insolation is defined then ish should run without that warning. It should be possible to extend the logic to check as the user is requesting a shading analysis for these directives. -Jon Hand -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk on behalf of Hall Monika Sent: Mon 9/29/2008 12:12 PM To: esp-r Subject: [esp-r] shading & insolation analysis with new *.geo format Dear all, did anyone tried the shading & insolation analysis with the new *.geo format? My model is a simple box with one glazing (exterior). I create this with vs. 3412 and get the old *.geo format. The shading insolation was no problem. But when I change into the new format style, I get the message "No insolation source surface found!". This problem appears when I create the geometry, change into the new format and try the insolation. If I make the geometry, do insolation, change into the new geometry style and do the insolation again, then the insolation is ok. It depends on the sequence! Old *.geo format # X co-ord, Y co-ord, Z co-ord 0.00000 0.00000 0.00000 # vert 1 5.00000 0.00000 0.00000 # vert 2 5.00000 3.00000 0.00000 # vert 3 .... new *.geo format # tag, X co-ord, Y co-ord, Z co-ord *vertex,0.00000,0.00000,0.00000 # 1 *vertex,5.00000,0.00000,0.00000 # 2 *vertex,5.00000,3.00000,0.00000 # 3 .... Regards Monika From Leen.Peeters at mech.kuleuven.be Sun Oct 5 16:59:33 2008 From: Leen.Peeters at mech.kuleuven.be (Leen Peeters) Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2008 17:59:33 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: exporting climate data Message-ID: Dear all, is there a way to export the climate data in order to load them in a spreadsheet program as for example Excell? Thanks! Leen Disclaimer: http://www.kuleuven.be/cwis/email_disclaimer.htm From Leen.Peeters at mech.kuleuven.be Sun Oct 5 17:03:45 2008 From: Leen.Peeters at mech.kuleuven.be (Leen Peeters) Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2008 18:03:45 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: exporting climate data SOLVED Message-ID: Ok got it...export to thext file.... ________________________________________ From: Leen Peeters Sent: 05 October 2008 17:59 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: RE: [esp-r] exporting climate data Dear all, is there a way to export the climate data in order to load them in a spreadsheet program as for example Excell? Thanks! Leen Disclaimer: http://www.kuleuven.be/cwis/email_disclaimer.htm From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Mon Oct 6 03:59:17 2008 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 03:59:17 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Documentation and examples of slab-on-grade plant component use? References: <200809192001.m8JK1jlk011373@hollowtrees.cvsdude.com> Message-ID: Alex and others in the ESP-r community... I have been looking at the radiant floor heating model in the tester models (rhc-plant.cfg). I am wanting to get up to speed with floor heating models (they do a lot of this in Korea). The plant components used in this model is a start but it is difficult to extrapolate several issues from this model: a) the model only includes a plant network and there is no control file so I am not sure if the non-condensing boiler & aquastat control; 2 node IEA Annex X and the Slab-on-grade hydronic floor can be controlled or if one would only attempt to control the pump; b) the tester.pl model seems to use a one hour timestep and that is rather different from most models with plant. Are these components suitable for running at such a long timestep? c) injections of heat into ground facing surfaces tend to work but, typically injections into structural slabs have caused strange control behavior in the past (the adjacent zone does not know about the injection). So - does anyone know if the slab-on-grade component can be used with a surface which is a structural slabe between between two thermal zones? Is there another way to do this other than the thin-zone approach? Are there some good examples of the use of floor heating models that someone might wish to contribute to the exemplars so that others will have an idea how to use and implement such facilities? Regards, Jon Hand From KHaddad at NRCan.gc.ca Mon Oct 6 15:53:52 2008 From: KHaddad at NRCan.gc.ca (Haddad, Kamel) Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 10:53:52 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Documentation and examples of slab-on-grade plantcomponent use? In-Reply-To: References: <200809192001.m8JK1jlk011373@hollowtrees.cvsdude.com> Message-ID: Jon, To control the operation of the slab heating/cooling, you will have to control the pump feeding the hydronic system. This is a small modification to the test file that comes with the general release of ESP-r. The model will work with any type of heating/cooling equipment. Kamel Haddad. -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Jon Hand Sent: October 5, 2008 22:59 To: Ferguson, Alex Cc: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Re: Documentation and examples of slab-on-grade plantcomponent use? Alex and others in the ESP-r community... I have been looking at the radiant floor heating model in the tester models (rhc-plant.cfg). I am wanting to get up to speed with floor heating models (they do a lot of this in Korea). The plant components used in this model is a start but it is difficult to extrapolate several issues from this model: a) the model only includes a plant network and there is no control file so I am not sure if the non-condensing boiler & aquastat control; 2 node IEA Annex X and the Slab-on-grade hydronic floor can be controlled or if one would only attempt to control the pump; b) the tester.pl model seems to use a one hour timestep and that is rather different from most models with plant. Are these components suitable for running at such a long timestep? c) injections of heat into ground facing surfaces tend to work but, typically injections into structural slabs have caused strange control behavior in the past (the adjacent zone does not know about the injection). So - does anyone know if the slab-on-grade component can be used with a surface which is a structural slabe between between two thermal zones? Is there another way to do this other than the thin-zone approach? Are there some good examples of the use of floor heating models that someone might wish to contribute to the exemplars so that others will have an idea how to use and implement such facilities? Regards, Jon Hand _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From froshin at dasskorea.com Tue Oct 7 08:38:00 2008 From: froshin at dasskorea.com (=?euc-kr?B?TGV3aXMgWW9vaw==?=) Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2008 16:38:00 +0900 Subject: [esp-r] =?euc-kr?q?_Does_somebody_know_Heating_Glass=3F?= Message-ID: <122336508012033298@froshin> Hi~ Everyone. Recently I heard about a new glazing system. It basically uses "heating glass." There is a metal-coated layer on the glazing surface which allows an electric current through the surface. The coated layer plays a role of the electric resistence and generates a certain amount of heat.(the electricity covers the load to maintain constant temperature) The surface temperature can be controlled by its controller as a set temperature. My concern is HOW WE CAN DESCRIBE this surface condition in ESP-R. What do you think? Is there some way I can set a certain window surface as constant temperature in simulation? Your advices will be highly appreciated. Lewis Yook Team Manager, Integrated Simulation Unit. Design and Simulation for Sustainability (DASS) consultants Ltd. 143-834 Venture Support Center 304-ho 632-9 Guui-dong Gwangjin-gu, Seoul, Korea T. 82.2.913.2585 F. 82.2.949.2585 H. www.dasskorea.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20081007/2e926cdb/attachment.html From aizaz.a.samuel at strath.ac.uk Tue Oct 7 13:07:04 2008 From: aizaz.a.samuel at strath.ac.uk (Aizaz Samuel) Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 13:07:04 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Does somebody know Heating Glass? In-Reply-To: <122336508012033298@froshin> References: <122336508012033298@froshin> Message-ID: <200810071307.04296.aizaz.a.samuel@strath.ac.uk> Lewis, There are at least two ways in which a surface can have a fixed temperature. 1. Define the surface to be a constant boundary condition (surface attributes > choose surface > environment > prescribed static) 2. Define a building control loop and control the surface of choice to a prescribed temperature. Approach 1 is easier to use but also requires the radiation condition to be specified and may not be appropriate if you want to take solar processes into account. Approach 2 will additionally give you the heating load to keep the surface at a constant temperature Regards, Aizaz On Tuesday 07 October 2008 08:38, Lewis Yook wrote: > Hi~ Everyone. > > > > Recently I heard about a new glazing system. It basically uses "heating > glass." > > > > There is a metal-coated layer on the glazing surface which allows an > electric current through the surface. > > > > The coated layer plays a role of the electric resistence and generates a > certain amount of heat.(the electricity covers the load to maintain > constant temperature) > > > > The surface temperature can be controlled by its controller as a set > temperature. > > > > My concern is HOW WE CAN DESCRIBE this surface condition in ESP-R. > > > > What do you think? Is there some way I can set a certain window surface as > constant temperature in simulation? > > > > Your advices will be highly appreciated. > > > > > > Lewis Yook > > Team Manager, > > Integrated Simulation Unit. > > Design and Simulation for Sustainability (DASS) consultants Ltd. > > > 143-834 > > Venture Support Center 304-ho > > 632-9 Guui-dong Gwangjin-gu, Seoul, Korea > > T. 82.2.913.2585 F. 82.2.949.2585 > > H. www.dasskorea.com From laxsts at nottingham.ac.uk Wed Oct 8 13:11:39 2008 From: laxsts at nottingham.ac.uk (Smith Stefan) Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2008 13:11:39 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Installing source code version on Intel Mac Message-ID: <28595D3B6B6116438C3AB5A9AFFC1317025E2C45@VUIEXCH2.ad.nottingham.ac.uk> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20081008/c5cc5b5f/attachment.html From manzan at units.it Wed Oct 8 18:21:02 2008 From: manzan at units.it (Marco Manzan) Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2008 19:21:02 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] ceiling panel simulation Message-ID: <20081008192102.rx4vlpg3vcis044g@webmail.units.it> hi to all Is the slab on grade radiant floor model used in rhc-plant.cfg example suitable for simulating ceiling panel cooling or heating? are there different methods to deal with this problem? I 'm considering also a simple flux injection into the ceiling structure, but in this case I think I have to control surface temperature too with a multi sensor heating/cooling. . I thanks in advance anyone who can help me -- _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ |Marco Manzan Email: manzan at units.it | |Tel: (+39) 040 5583506 Fax : (+39) 040 572033 | |Dipartimento di Ingegneria Navale, del Mare e per l'Ambiente | |Universita' degli Studi di Trieste | |piazzale Europa 1, 34127 TRIESTE | |_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _| ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. From anton.driesse at gmail.com Thu Oct 9 16:03:28 2008 From: anton.driesse at gmail.com (Anton Driesse) Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2008 11:03:28 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] Artificial test conditions Message-ID: <48EE1D40.9070006@gmail.com> What would be the best way to create some artificial test conditions for a system (PV system actually), such all constant conditions, or linear ramps in temperature and/or solar radiation? Anton From aizaz.a.samuel at strath.ac.uk Thu Oct 9 16:26:44 2008 From: aizaz.a.samuel at strath.ac.uk (Aizaz Samuel) Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2008 16:26:44 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Artificial test conditions In-Reply-To: <48EE1D40.9070006@gmail.com> References: <48EE1D40.9070006@gmail.com> Message-ID: <200810091626.44555.aizaz.a.samuel@strath.ac.uk> From database maintenance choose to copy the climate file locally (to dbs folder). Choose to browse/edit the climate file. This opens up the clim module in a new window. In there choose to edit climate data and set required parameters to values of your choice. -Aizaz On Thursday 09 October 2008 16:03, Anton Driesse wrote: > What would be the best way to create some artificial test conditions for > a system (PV system actually), such all constant conditions, or linear > ramps in temperature and/or solar radiation? > > Anton > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From holger.bertling at gmx.de Sat Oct 11 13:09:58 2008 From: holger.bertling at gmx.de (Holger Bertling) Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2008 14:09:58 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Different Construciton Runs Message-ID: <1223726998.6601.37.camel@d> Dear All, I try to run simulations of the same model, but with different constructions. I thought an easy way would be to have different construction-databases with similar names of the constructions, but different specifications. So I copied the model.cfg file and only changed the pointing to the different construction-databases. But the results stay the same. So the data is token of the zone.con file and stays the same, even if you switch the construction-database? Is there a more efficient way, than changing every zone.con file? Thanks in advance, and best regards, Holger From Leen.Peeters at mech.kuleuven.be Sun Oct 12 18:26:38 2008 From: Leen.Peeters at mech.kuleuven.be (Leen Peeters) Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2008 19:26:38 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] climate files Message-ID: Dear all, could anyone tell me how the climate files are selected? They are all linked to specific years, so I assume they are not TMY-files... On which basis are they selected,? Thanks... Leen Disclaimer: http://www.kuleuven.be/cwis/email_disclaimer.htm From holger.bertling at gmx.de Mon Oct 13 17:01:14 2008 From: holger.bertling at gmx.de (Holger Bertling) Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2008 18:01:14 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Different Construciton Runs Message-ID: <1223913674.6483.19.camel@d> Thank you. So I need different zone-files for different constructions. Before I do more mistakes I rather ask... I want to do runs with these models with differnt shadings and differnt air-change-rates, too. (And differnt Climate-files, but this should solve the shell-script.) Is it enough to change the path to the shading-file and to the operation-file in cfg-file? Or have I to update more files to do so, too? Thanks in advance, and best regards, Holger Am Sonntag, den 12.10.2008, 23:16 +0200 schrieb Karlsson Fredrik E Systems Norrk?ping: > > Hello! > > Try to update all zones in the construction menu (I think by using the > #-key). Somtimes I have succeeded by using this method. > > Best regards Fredrik Karlsson > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > > Fredrik Karlsson > Norrk?ping/installation/Mitt > Telefon direkt 011-495 > 38 02 > fredrik.e.karlsson at sweco.se > SWECO Systems AB > > Gamla R?dstugugatan 1 > 602 24 Norrk?ping > Telefon 011-495 38 00 > www.sweco.se > > > > > > > > ----- > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk > [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Holger Bertling > Sent: den 11 oktober 2008 14:10 > To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Subject: [esp-r] Different Construciton Runs > > Dear All, > > I try to run simulations of the same model, but with different > constructions. > > I thought an easy way would be > to have different construction-databases with similar names of the > constructions, but different specifications. > > So I copied the model.cfg file > and only changed the pointing > to the different construction-databases. > > But the results stay the same. > > So the data is token of the zone.con file and stays the same, even if > you switch the construction-database? > > Is there a more efficient way, > than changing every zone.con file? > > Thanks in advance, > and best regards, > > Holger > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > > From holger.bertling at gmx.de Mon Oct 13 17:34:19 2008 From: holger.bertling at gmx.de (Holger Bertling) Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2008 18:34:19 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Different Construciton Runs In-Reply-To: <1223913674.6483.19.camel@d> References: <1223913674.6483.19.camel@d> Message-ID: <1223915659.6483.21.camel@d> OK. I found the variantion manager... Am Montag, den 13.10.2008, 18:01 +0200 schrieb Holger Bertling: > Thank you. > > So I need different zone-files for different constructions. > > Before I do more mistakes I rather ask... > > I want to do runs with these models > with differnt shadings > and differnt air-change-rates, too. > (And differnt Climate-files, > but this should solve the shell-script.) > > Is it enough to change the path to the shading-file > and to the operation-file in cfg-file? > > Or have I to update more files to do so, too? > > Thanks in advance, > and best regards, > > Holger > > > > Am Sonntag, den 12.10.2008, 23:16 +0200 schrieb Karlsson Fredrik E > Systems Norrk?ping: > > > > Hello! > > > > Try to update all zones in the construction menu (I think by using the > > #-key). Somtimes I have succeeded by using this method. > > > > Best regards Fredrik Karlsson > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > > > > > Fredrik Karlsson > > Norrk?ping/installation/Mitt > > Telefon direkt 011-495 > > 38 02 > > fredrik.e.karlsson at sweco.se > > SWECO Systems AB > > > > Gamla R?dstugugatan 1 > > 602 24 Norrk?ping > > Telefon 011-495 38 00 > > www.sweco.se > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- > > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk > > [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Holger Bertling > > Sent: den 11 oktober 2008 14:10 > > To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > Subject: [esp-r] Different Construciton Runs > > > > Dear All, > > > > I try to run simulations of the same model, but with different > > constructions. > > > > I thought an easy way would be > > to have different construction-databases with similar names of the > > constructions, but different specifications. > > > > So I copied the model.cfg file > > and only changed the pointing > > to the different construction-databases. > > > > But the results stay the same. > > > > So the data is token of the zone.con file and stays the same, even if > > you switch the construction-database? > > > > Is there a more efficient way, > > than changing every zone.con file? > > > > Thanks in advance, > > and best regards, > > > > Holger > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > esp-r mailing list > > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Tue Oct 14 00:08:24 2008 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 00:08:24 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Different Construciton Runs References: <1223913674.6483.19.camel@d> Message-ID: A recent question related to parametric studies... There are several possible approaches to altering constructions. If you want to globally change one construction for another and have the project manager manage the process there is a search-replace option in the project manger. This search-replace can be restricted to particular zones if needed. One variant of search-replace involves what are termed 'anchors'. An anchor is a named list of surface e.g. 'heavy_exterior' which has 50 surfaces in the model linked to that name. Then you can apply an action to all surfaces linked to that anchor. In planning your approach think about how many variations you need to create and if you want to preserve the past. The 'model variant' facility is able to preserve existing files by creating new files related to the type of data you want to change. If there are only a few variants, some people just create each of the zone construction file variants they need for the model and use different model configuration files pointing the the subset of files for that case. Other people write scripts which drive the interface to to search-replace actions. I knew one person who had 600 constructions in their database and used scripts to systematically revise the model scores of times. Of course, scripts that are not correct can cause great havoc. And scripts can break if the interface changes. -Jon Hand ________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk ?(?) ?? ?? ?? ?? Holger Bertling Sent: 10/13/2008 (?) 5:01 ?? To: esp-r Subject: [esp-r] Re: Different Construciton Runs Thank you. So I need different zone-files for different constructions. Before I do more mistakes I rather ask... I want to do runs with these models with differnt shadings and differnt air-change-rates, too. (And differnt Climate-files, but this should solve the shell-script.) Is it enough to change the path to the shading-file and to the operation-file in cfg-file? Or have I to update more files to do so, to. _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Tue Oct 14 00:13:56 2008 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 00:13:56 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: ceiling panel simulation References: <20081008192102.rx4vlpg3vcis044g@webmail.units.it> Message-ID: There is an exemplar model that implements a chilled ceiling via the 'thin zone' technique. Check that one out for the control logic needed. I am also interested in whether the ground slab systems model would be useful if it were placed between two zones. -Jon Hand ________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk ?(?) ?? ?? ?? ?? Marco Manzan Sent: 10/8/2008 (?) 6:21 ?? To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] ceiling panel simulation hi to all Is the slab on grade radiant floor model used in rhc-plant.cfg example suitable for simulating ceiling panel cooling or heating? are there different methods to deal with this problem? I 'm considering also a simple flux injection into the ceiling structure, but in this case I think I have to control surface temperature too with a multi sensor heating/cooling. . I thanks in advance anyone who can help me -- _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ |Marco Manzan Email: manzan at units.it | |Tel: (+39) 040 5583506 Fax : (+39) 040 572033 | |Dipartimento di Ingegneria Navale, del Mare e per l'Ambiente | |Universita' degli Studi di Trieste | |piazzale Europa 1, 34127 TRIESTE | |_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _| ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From holger.bertling at gmx.de Tue Oct 14 17:33:49 2008 From: holger.bertling at gmx.de (Holger Bertling) Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 18:33:49 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] MZELWE Longwave Flux Messages Message-ID: <1224002029.6589.11.camel@d> Dear All, during my simulations I get a lot of these messages: Wall-6:Raum_3 @ increment 31883 This is considered high and a correlation will be used. Can someone clarify the network flow node height and component connection designations? The cookbook describes placing the node at the "height" of the opening, but does not define what that height should be. If I have a door opening, should that height be at the bottom of the opening, the top or the middle? Also, is the "Height of +ve linkage point relative to node X" supposed to be from the bottom of the component to the node height, or from the node height to the bottom of the component? Same with the -ve linkage node. This would affect the sign. Again, the cookbook and reference literature do not describe this completely or clearly. Additionally, the cookbook states that the nodes on either side of the component should be at the same height, but what if you have a single interior node and windows as multiple elevations? Then only one of those nodes could be at the same height as the internal node? I am just a little confused on this. Thanks Ryan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20081014/a447d2ec/attachment.html From lswan at dal.ca Wed Oct 15 13:01:32 2008 From: lswan at dal.ca (Lukas Swan (Dal)) Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 09:01:32 -0300 Subject: [esp-r] Re: MZELWE Longwave Flux Messages In-Reply-To: <1224002029.6589.11.camel@d> References: <1224002029.6589.11.camel@d> Message-ID: <006e01c92ebd$c46cefa0$4d46cee0$@ca> Hi Holger, I have seen this in simulations before as well. It means that the long wave flux from the exterior building surfaces is greater than a typical expected range. I added a bit of verbosity to the source code once and found that it was always caused by my exterior surface temperature being too high. This was caused by the choice of high exterior surface absorptivity and emissivity values, low specific heat, and low thermal conductivity. Take a good look at the materials you are using and how they are situated into the construction. Adjust some of these values and the issue will likely decrease. Lukas Swan Dalhousie Univ. Canada -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Holger Bertling Sent: October-14-08 1:34 PM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] MZELWE Longwave Flux Messages Dear All, during my simulations I get a lot of these messages: Wall-6:Raum_3 @ increment 31883 This is considered high and a correlation will be used. References: <1224002029.6589.11.camel@d> <006e01c92ebd$c46cefa0$4d46cee0$@ca> Message-ID: >This was caused by the choice of high exterior surface >absorptivity and emissivity values, low specific heat, >and low thermal conductivity. The low specific heat and conductivity, and the high absorptivity and emissivity values translate into a small thermal time constant for the state equation describing the temperature of the surface. The simulation becomes unstable when the solution time step approaches (or exceeds) this time step; increasing the time resolution may also produce more stable simulations. - Alex -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Lukas Swan (Dal) Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 8:02 AM To: 'Holger Bertling' Cc: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Re: MZELWE Longwave Flux Messages Hi Holger, I have seen this in simulations before as well. It means that the long wave flux from the exterior building surfaces is greater than a typical expected range. I added a bit of verbosity to the source code once and found that it was always caused by my exterior surface temperature being too high. This was caused by the choice of high exterior surface absorptivity and emissivity values, low specific heat, and low thermal conductivity. Take a good look at the materials you are using and how they are situated into the construction. Adjust some of these values and the issue will likely decrease. Lukas Swan Dalhousie Univ. Canada -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Holger Bertling Sent: October-14-08 1:34 PM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] MZELWE Longwave Flux Messages Dear All, during my simulations I get a lot of these messages: Wall-6:Raum_3 @ increment 31883 This is considered high and a correlation will be used. References: <1224002029.6589.11.camel@d> <006e01c92ebd$c46cefa0$4d46cee0$@ca> Message-ID: <1224156393.6529.10.camel@d> Hi All, do you mean the "Zone side: time-steps/hour"? First it was 12 steps and I increased ist up to 60 steps and the Messages increased, too. So it seems to be the material. Is "Zone side: time-steps/hour" the right switch? What is in your opinion a good time-step-value? Best regards, Holger Am Mittwoch, den 15.10.2008, 09:35 -0400 schrieb Ferguson, Alex: > >This was caused by the choice of high exterior surface > >absorptivity and emissivity values, low specific heat, > >and low thermal conductivity. > > The low specific heat and conductivity, and the high absorptivity and > emissivity values translate into a small thermal time constant for the > state equation describing the temperature of the surface. The simulation > becomes unstable when the solution time step approaches (or exceeds) > this time step; increasing the time resolution may also produce more > stable simulations. > > - Alex > > -----Original Message----- > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk > [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Lukas Swan (Dal) > Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 8:02 AM > To: 'Holger Bertling' > Cc: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Subject: [esp-r] Re: MZELWE Longwave Flux Messages > > Hi Holger, > I have seen this in simulations before as well. It means that the long > wave flux from the exterior building surfaces is greater than a typical > expected range. I added a bit of verbosity to the source code once and > found that it was always caused by my exterior surface temperature being > too high. This was caused by the choice of high exterior surface > absorptivity and emissivity values, low specific heat, and low thermal > conductivity. > > Take a good look at the materials you are using and how they are > situated into the construction. Adjust some of these values and the > issue will likely decrease. > > Lukas Swan > Dalhousie Univ. > Canada > > -----Original Message----- > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk > [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Holger Bertling > Sent: October-14-08 1:34 PM > To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Subject: [esp-r] MZELWE Longwave Flux Messages > > Dear All, > > during my simulations I get a lot of these messages: > > Wall-6:Raum_3 @ increment 31883 > This is considered high and a correlation will be used. > MZELWE: a longwave flux of -578.9 Watts has been calculated for > Wall-6:Raum_1 @ increment 31884 > This is considered high and a correlation will be used. > MZELWE: a longwave flux of -496.6 Watts has been calculated for > Wall-6:Raum_3 @ increment 31884 > This is considered high and a correlation will be used. > 50 % complete; expected finish time : Tue Oct 14 18:14:36 2008 > MZELWE: a longwave flux of -538.3 Watts has been calculated for > Wall-6:Raum_1 @ increment 79966 > This is considered high and a correlation will be used. > MZELWE: a longwave flux of -655.9 Watts has been calculated for > > Does anybody know, > what that means > and if its bad or OK? > > Thanks in advance, > Holger > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From holger.bertling at gmx.de Thu Oct 16 15:57:24 2008 From: holger.bertling at gmx.de (Holger Bertling) Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 16:57:24 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: MZELWE Longwave Flux Messages In-Reply-To: <1224156393.6529.10.camel@d> References: <1224002029.6589.11.camel@d> <006e01c92ebd$c46cefa0$4d46cee0$@ca> <1224156393.6529.10.camel@d> Message-ID: <1224169044.6529.24.camel@d> THANK YOU BOTH! For the protocol: There was only mineral wool on the outside-face. I plastered it with light plaster and there were 30 Percent less mistakes. I plastered it with dense plaster and there were 60 Percent less mistakes. I increased the time-steps per hour to 30 and there are no mistakes anymore. Best regards, happy Holger Am Donnerstag, den 16.10.2008, 13:26 +0200 schrieb Holger Bertling: > Hi All, > > do you mean the "Zone side: time-steps/hour"? > First it was 12 steps > and I increased ist up to 60 steps > and the Messages increased, too. > So it seems to be the material. > > Is "Zone side: time-steps/hour" the right switch? > What is in your opinion a good time-step-value? > > Best regards, > Holger > > > > Am Mittwoch, den 15.10.2008, 09:35 -0400 schrieb Ferguson, Alex: > > >This was caused by the choice of high exterior surface > > >absorptivity and emissivity values, low specific heat, > > >and low thermal conductivity. > > > > The low specific heat and conductivity, and the high absorptivity and > > emissivity values translate into a small thermal time constant for the > > state equation describing the temperature of the surface. The simulation > > becomes unstable when the solution time step approaches (or exceeds) > > this time step; increasing the time resolution may also produce more > > stable simulations. > > > > - Alex > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk > > [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Lukas Swan (Dal) > > Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 8:02 AM > > To: 'Holger Bertling' > > Cc: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > Subject: [esp-r] Re: MZELWE Longwave Flux Messages > > > > Hi Holger, > > I have seen this in simulations before as well. It means that the long > > wave flux from the exterior building surfaces is greater than a typical > > expected range. I added a bit of verbosity to the source code once and > > found that it was always caused by my exterior surface temperature being > > too high. This was caused by the choice of high exterior surface > > absorptivity and emissivity values, low specific heat, and low thermal > > conductivity. > > > > Take a good look at the materials you are using and how they are > > situated into the construction. Adjust some of these values and the > > issue will likely decrease. > > > > Lukas Swan > > Dalhousie Univ. > > Canada > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk > > [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Holger Bertling > > Sent: October-14-08 1:34 PM > > To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > Subject: [esp-r] MZELWE Longwave Flux Messages > > > > Dear All, > > > > during my simulations I get a lot of these messages: > > > > Wall-6:Raum_3 @ increment 31883 > > This is considered high and a correlation will be used. > > > MZELWE: a longwave flux of -578.9 Watts has been calculated for > > Wall-6:Raum_1 @ increment 31884 > > This is considered high and a correlation will be used. > > > MZELWE: a longwave flux of -496.6 Watts has been calculated for > > Wall-6:Raum_3 @ increment 31884 > > This is considered high and a correlation will be used. > > > 50 % complete; expected finish time : Tue Oct 14 18:14:36 2008 > > MZELWE: a longwave flux of -538.3 Watts has been calculated for > > Wall-6:Raum_1 @ increment 79966 > > This is considered high and a correlation will be used. > > > MZELWE: a longwave flux of -655.9 Watts has been calculated for > > > > Does anybody know, > > what that means > > and if its bad or OK? > > > > Thanks in advance, > > Holger > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > esp-r mailing list > > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > esp-r mailing list > > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > > > > _______________________________________________ > > esp-r mailing list > > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From obrien_liam at hotmail.com Fri Oct 17 04:11:18 2008 From: obrien_liam at hotmail.com (Liam O'Brien) Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 23:11:18 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] 3D gridding Message-ID: Hello All, I'm attempting to model an apartment with a concrete balcony for which the slab is continuous from the balcony to the interior. I have a couple questions about this: - If I model the balcony as a zone (not sure how I would do it otherwise), can I set it up so that conduction occurs between the slab in the balcony zone and the floor of the apartment zone? - For the manual addition of grid lines, why does ESP-r request two coordinates for a horizontal gridline, for example, when this could be defined with a single value? Am I missing something? - It is possible to subdivide the slab in the thickness direction, or should this be merely done by having multiple identical layers in the construction definition? Finally, if anyone knows a good source of information for the 3d gridding process, please let me know. I found the only relevant exemplar overly complex. Thanks very much. Liam O'Brien _________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20081016/e68d95ff/attachment.html From paul at esru.strath.ac.uk Sat Oct 18 16:39:09 2008 From: paul at esru.strath.ac.uk (Paul Strachan) Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2008 16:39:09 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Network Flow Nodes and component connections In-Reply-To: <004a01c92e1d$a5711270$f0533750$@delbalso@colorado.edu> References: <004a01c92e1d$a5711270$f0533750$@delbalso@colorado.edu> Message-ID: <48FA031D.8050900@esru.strath.ac.uk> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20081018/919bdcfc/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Sun Oct 19 01:29:42 2008 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 01:29:42 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Network Flow Nodes and component connections References: <004a01c92e1d$a5711270$f0533750$@delbalso@colorado.edu> <48FA031D.8050900@esru.strath.ac.uk> Message-ID: Another point of view for flow networks... During training courses my advise is: a) imagine you are at the location of the air node in the room, look at the component. If above you then the delta height is positive. If you look down at the component then the delta height is negative. Do this for each component except for the bi-directional component (door). b) One approach to networks is to create one boundary node for EACH opening/connection to the outside and make the height of the boundary node at the centre of the opening. When looking from the point-of-view of the boundary the delta height is zero. c) Doors - one of the attributes of a door is the distance from the bottom of the door to the adjacent nodes. When using doors in different size rooms you will have to make additional door components, each with a distance attribute that matches the specific room. When using a door the delta heights are zero because the component already has the attribute set. d) There are several exemplar models with flow networks look at those to check out these patterns. -Jon Hand -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk on behalf of Paul Strachan Sent: Sat 10/18/2008 4:39 PM To: Ryan Joseph Del Balso; 'esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk' Subject: [esp-r] Re: Network Flow Nodes and component connections Ryan, There is a diagram in Jan Hensen's thesis which shows the heights required for the calculations. See page 4.10 in http://www.esru.strath.ac.uk/Documents/PhD/hensen_thesis.pdf Suppose you have a high level opening between 2 zones and that you specify the connection as a linkage from node X ("positive" node) to node Y ("negative" node). The height of node X is typically placed at the average height of the zone represented by node X, say 2 m above reference; similarly for node Y, say 2.5m above reference. If the high level opening is at a height of 4m above the reference level, then the "Height of +ve linkage point relative to node X" is +2.0m and the "Height of -ve linkage point relative to node Y" is +1.5m. If you had a further low level opening between the 2 zones, say at 1.0m above reference, then for this connection, the "Height of +ve linkage point relative to node X" is -1.0m and the "Height of -ve linkage point relative to node Y" is -1.5m. Regards Paul Ryan Joseph Del Balso wrote: Can someone clarify the network flow node height and component connection designations? The cookbook describes placing the node at the "height" of the opening, but does not define what that height should be. If I have a door opening, should that height be at the bottom of the opening, the top or the middle? Also, is the "Height of +ve linkage point relative to node X" supposed to be from the bottom of the component to the node height, or from the node height to the bottom of the component? Same with the -ve linkage node. This would affect the sign. Again, the cookbook and reference literature do not describe this completely or clearly. Additionally, the cookbook states that the nodes on either side of the component should be at the same height, but what if you have a single interior node and windows as multiple elevations? Then only one of those nodes could be at the same height as the internal node? I am just a little confused on this. Thanks Ryan From Ryan.Delbalso at Colorado.EDU Sun Oct 19 01:37:54 2008 From: Ryan.Delbalso at Colorado.EDU (Ryan Joseph Del Balso) Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2008 18:37:54 -0600 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Network Flow Nodes and component connections In-Reply-To: References: <004a01c92e1d$a5711270$f0533750$@delbalso@colorado.edu> <48FA031D.8050900@esru.strath.ac.uk> Message-ID: <000c01c93182$ecb8e6e0$c62ab4a0$@delbalso@colorado.edu> Jon and Paul, Thank you for your help. This does clarify it better than the literature. One more question though. Jon, you said the door component works differently than the other components. This of course is what I am using. I see that it is said that the adjacent nodes should both be at the same elevation. This confuses me, because if I have a zone node set at the mid-height of the zone and a boundary node set at the mid-height of my door, then I cannot have them both at the same height and I will need a +ve and -ve connection adjustment. I still have to connect the door to a zone and boundary node so I don't understand how this works. Can you clarify this a bit more for me? thanks Ryan -----Original Message----- From: Jon Hand [mailto:jon at esru.strath.ac.uk] Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 6:30 PM To: Paul Strachan; Ryan Joseph Del Balso; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: RE: [esp-r] Re: Network Flow Nodes and component connections Another point of view for flow networks... During training courses my advise is: a) imagine you are at the location of the air node in the room, look at the component. If above you then the delta height is positive. If you look down at the component then the delta height is negative. Do this for each component except for the bi-directional component (door). b) One approach to networks is to create one boundary node for EACH opening/connection to the outside and make the height of the boundary node at the centre of the opening. When looking from the point-of-view of the boundary the delta height is zero. c) Doors - one of the attributes of a door is the distance from the bottom of the door to the adjacent nodes. When using doors in different size rooms you will have to make additional door components, each with a distance attribute that matches the specific room. When using a door the delta heights are zero because the component already has the attribute set. d) There are several exemplar models with flow networks look at those to check out these patterns. -Jon Hand -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk on behalf of Paul Strachan Sent: Sat 10/18/2008 4:39 PM To: Ryan Joseph Del Balso; 'esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk' Subject: [esp-r] Re: Network Flow Nodes and component connections Ryan, There is a diagram in Jan Hensen's thesis which shows the heights required for the calculations. See page 4.10 in http://www.esru.strath.ac.uk/Documents/PhD/hensen_thesis.pdf Suppose you have a high level opening between 2 zones and that you specify the connection as a linkage from node X ("positive" node) to node Y ("negative" node). The height of node X is typically placed at the average height of the zone represented by node X, say 2 m above reference; similarly for node Y, say 2.5m above reference. If the high level opening is at a height of 4m above the reference level, then the "Height of +ve linkage point relative to node X" is +2.0m and the "Height of -ve linkage point relative to node Y" is +1.5m. If you had a further low level opening between the 2 zones, say at 1.0m above reference, then for this connection, the "Height of +ve linkage point relative to node X" is -1.0m and the "Height of -ve linkage point relative to node Y" is -1.5m. Regards Paul Ryan Joseph Del Balso wrote: Can someone clarify the network flow node height and component connection designations? The cookbook describes placing the node at the "height" of the opening, but does not define what that height should be. If I have a door opening, should that height be at the bottom of the opening, the top or the middle? Also, is the "Height of +ve linkage point relative to node X" supposed to be from the bottom of the component to the node height, or from the node height to the bottom of the component? Same with the -ve linkage node. This would affect the sign. Again, the cookbook and reference literature do not describe this completely or clearly. Additionally, the cookbook states that the nodes on either side of the component should be at the same height, but what if you have a single interior node and windows as multiple elevations? Then only one of those nodes could be at the same height as the internal node? I am just a little confused on this. Thanks Ryan From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Sun Oct 19 01:38:09 2008 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 01:38:09 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: 3D gridding References: Message-ID: A recent question about 3D gridding. Lets assume that the question was related to the grd module of ESP-r. This particular interface can be quite confusing. Because it is confusing it does not get used very often or updated very often - catch-22. To answer this question is probably going to require looking at the code of grd related to this particular dialog and then seeing how the two values are being used. Running grd in debug mode would probably be a good idea. If anyone has had recent experience with 2D and 3D gridding perhaps they could share their experience? -Jon Hand -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk on behalf of Liam O'Brien Sent: Fri 10/17/2008 4:11 AM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] 3D gridding Hello All, I'm attempting to model an apartment with a concrete balcony for which the slab is continuous from the balcony to the interior. I have a couple questions about this: - If I model the balcony as a zone (not sure how I would do it otherwise), can I set it up so that conduction occurs between the slab in the balcony zone and the floor of the apartment zone? - For the manual addition of grid lines, why does ESP-r request two coordinates for a horizontal gridline, for example, when this could be defined with a single value? Am I missing something? - It is possible to subdivide the slab in the thickness direction, or should this be merely done by having multiple identical layers in the construction definition? Finally, if anyone knows a good source of information for the 3d gridding process, please let me know. I found the only relevant exemplar overly complex. Thanks very much. Liam O'Brien _________________________________________________________________ From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Mon Oct 20 05:02:34 2008 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 05:02:34 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Network Flow Nodes and component connections References: <004a01c92e1d$a5711270$f0533750$@delbalso@colorado.edu> <48FA031D.8050900@esru.strath.ac.uk> <000c01c93182$ecb8e6e0$c62ab4a0$@delbalso@colorado.edu> Message-ID: If you are using a door connected to the outside then to get the nodes on each side of the door at the same height you will need to make the boundary node at the same Z value as the room node rather than at the centre of the door. The door equations are based on the assumption that the nodes on each side are at the same height. In some physical spaces this is difficult to arrange. A door can also be approximated via two openings (one above the other) - and you would probably want to setup a test model which could compare a door component with two openings to find out if the two approaches give the same predictions. If the zero flow plane of the door is not at the vertical centre then you might have to adjust the size of the two openings. -Jon Hand -----Original Message----- From: Ryan Joseph Del Balso [mailto:Ryan.Delbalso at Colorado.EDU] Sent: Sun 10/19/2008 1:37 AM To: Jon Hand; Paul Strachan; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: RE: [esp-r] Re: Network Flow Nodes and component connections Jon and Paul, Thank you for your help. This does clarify it better than the literature. One more question though. Jon, you said the door component works differently than the other components. This of course is what I am using. I see that it is said that the adjacent nodes should both be at the same elevation. This confuses me, because if I have a zone node set at the mid-height of the zone and a boundary node set at the mid-height of my door, then I cannot have them both at the same height and I will need a +ve and -ve connection adjustment. I still have to connect the door to a zone and boundary node so I don't understand how this works. Can you clarify this a bit more for me? thanks Ryan -----Original Message----- From: Jon Hand [mailto:jon at esru.strath.ac.uk] Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 6:30 PM To: Paul Strachan; Ryan Joseph Del Balso; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: RE: [esp-r] Re: Network Flow Nodes and component connections Another point of view for flow networks... During training courses my advise is: a) imagine you are at the location of the air node in the room, look at the component. If above you then the delta height is positive. If you look down at the component then the delta height is negative. Do this for each component except for the bi-directional component (door). b) One approach to networks is to create one boundary node for EACH opening/connection to the outside and make the height of the boundary node at the centre of the opening. When looking from the point-of-view of the boundary the delta height is zero. c) Doors - one of the attributes of a door is the distance from the bottom of the door to the adjacent nodes. When using doors in different size rooms you will have to make additional door components, each with a distance attribute that matches the specific room. When using a door the delta heights are zero because the component already has the attribute set. d) There are several exemplar models with flow networks look at those to check out these patterns. -Jon Hand -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk on behalf of Paul Strachan Sent: Sat 10/18/2008 4:39 PM To: Ryan Joseph Del Balso; 'esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk' Subject: [esp-r] Re: Network Flow Nodes and component connections Ryan, There is a diagram in Jan Hensen's thesis which shows the heights required for the calculations. See page 4.10 in http://www.esru.strath.ac.uk/Documents/PhD/hensen_thesis.pdf Suppose you have a high level opening between 2 zones and that you specify the connection as a linkage from node X ("positive" node) to node Y ("negative" node). The height of node X is typically placed at the average height of the zone represented by node X, say 2 m above reference; similarly for node Y, say 2.5m above reference. If the high level opening is at a height of 4m above the reference level, then the "Height of +ve linkage point relative to node X" is +2.0m and the "Height of -ve linkage point relative to node Y" is +1.5m. If you had a further low level opening between the 2 zones, say at 1.0m above reference, then for this connection, the "Height of +ve linkage point relative to node X" is -1.0m and the "Height of -ve linkage point relative to node Y" is -1.5m. Regards Paul Ryan Joseph Del Balso wrote: Can someone clarify the network flow node height and component connection designations? The cookbook describes placing the node at the "height" of the opening, but does not define what that height should be. If I have a door opening, should that height be at the bottom of the opening, the top or the middle? Also, is the "Height of +ve linkage point relative to node X" supposed to be from the bottom of the component to the node height, or from the node height to the bottom of the component? Same with the -ve linkage node. This would affect the sign. Again, the cookbook and reference literature do not describe this completely or clearly. Additionally, the cookbook states that the nodes on either side of the component should be at the same height, but what if you have a single interior node and windows as multiple elevations? Then only one of those nodes could be at the same height as the internal node? I am just a little confused on this. Thanks Ryan From Ryan.Delbalso at Colorado.EDU Mon Oct 20 20:44:30 2008 From: Ryan.Delbalso at Colorado.EDU (Ryan Joseph Del Balso) Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 13:44:30 -0600 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Network Flow Nodes and component connections In-Reply-To: References: <004a01c92e1d$a5711270$f0533750$@delbalso@colorado.edu> <48FA031D.8050900@esru.strath.ac.uk> <000c01c93182$ecb8e6e0$c62ab4a0$@delbalso@colorado.edu> Message-ID: <004a01c932ec$44b7d9e0$ce278da0$@delbalso@colorado.edu> Jon, Thank you. That is much more clear as it was not explained in the literature very well. Ryan -----Original Message----- From: Jon Hand [mailto:jon at esru.strath.ac.uk] Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2008 10:03 PM To: Ryan Joseph Del Balso; Paul Strachan; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: RE: [esp-r] Re: Network Flow Nodes and component connections If you are using a door connected to the outside then to get the nodes on each side of the door at the same height you will need to make the boundary node at the same Z value as the room node rather than at the centre of the door. The door equations are based on the assumption that the nodes on each side are at the same height. In some physical spaces this is difficult to arrange. A door can also be approximated via two openings (one above the other) - and you would probably want to setup a test model which could compare a door component with two openings to find out if the two approaches give the same predictions. If the zero flow plane of the door is not at the vertical centre then you might have to adjust the size of the two openings. -Jon Hand -----Original Message----- From: Ryan Joseph Del Balso [mailto:Ryan.Delbalso at Colorado.EDU] Sent: Sun 10/19/2008 1:37 AM To: Jon Hand; Paul Strachan; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: RE: [esp-r] Re: Network Flow Nodes and component connections Jon and Paul, Thank you for your help. This does clarify it better than the literature. One more question though. Jon, you said the door component works differently than the other components. This of course is what I am using. I see that it is said that the adjacent nodes should both be at the same elevation. This confuses me, because if I have a zone node set at the mid-height of the zone and a boundary node set at the mid-height of my door, then I cannot have them both at the same height and I will need a +ve and -ve connection adjustment. I still have to connect the door to a zone and boundary node so I don't understand how this works. Can you clarify this a bit more for me? thanks Ryan -----Original Message----- From: Jon Hand [mailto:jon at esru.strath.ac.uk] Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 6:30 PM To: Paul Strachan; Ryan Joseph Del Balso; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: RE: [esp-r] Re: Network Flow Nodes and component connections Another point of view for flow networks... During training courses my advise is: a) imagine you are at the location of the air node in the room, look at the component. If above you then the delta height is positive. If you look down at the component then the delta height is negative. Do this for each component except for the bi-directional component (door). b) One approach to networks is to create one boundary node for EACH opening/connection to the outside and make the height of the boundary node at the centre of the opening. When looking from the point-of-view of the boundary the delta height is zero. c) Doors - one of the attributes of a door is the distance from the bottom of the door to the adjacent nodes. When using doors in different size rooms you will have to make additional door components, each with a distance attribute that matches the specific room. When using a door the delta heights are zero because the component already has the attribute set. d) There are several exemplar models with flow networks look at those to check out these patterns. -Jon Hand -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk on behalf of Paul Strachan Sent: Sat 10/18/2008 4:39 PM To: Ryan Joseph Del Balso; 'esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk' Subject: [esp-r] Re: Network Flow Nodes and component connections Ryan, There is a diagram in Jan Hensen's thesis which shows the heights required for the calculations. See page 4.10 in http://www.esru.strath.ac.uk/Documents/PhD/hensen_thesis.pdf Suppose you have a high level opening between 2 zones and that you specify the connection as a linkage from node X ("positive" node) to node Y ("negative" node). The height of node X is typically placed at the average height of the zone represented by node X, say 2 m above reference; similarly for node Y, say 2.5m above reference. If the high level opening is at a height of 4m above the reference level, then the "Height of +ve linkage point relative to node X" is +2.0m and the "Height of -ve linkage point relative to node Y" is +1.5m. If you had a further low level opening between the 2 zones, say at 1.0m above reference, then for this connection, the "Height of +ve linkage point relative to node X" is -1.0m and the "Height of -ve linkage point relative to node Y" is -1.5m. Regards Paul Ryan Joseph Del Balso wrote: Can someone clarify the network flow node height and component connection designations? The cookbook describes placing the node at the "height" of the opening, but does not define what that height should be. If I have a door opening, should that height be at the bottom of the opening, the top or the middle? Also, is the "Height of +ve linkage point relative to node X" supposed to be from the bottom of the component to the node height, or from the node height to the bottom of the component? Same with the -ve linkage node. This would affect the sign. Again, the cookbook and reference literature do not describe this completely or clearly. Additionally, the cookbook states that the nodes on either side of the component should be at the same height, but what if you have a single interior node and windows as multiple elevations? Then only one of those nodes could be at the same height as the internal node? I am just a little confused on this. Thanks Ryan From ptavares at mail.isec.pt Tue Oct 21 18:41:53 2008 From: ptavares at mail.isec.pt (Paulo Tavares) Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 18:41:53 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Import model from AutoCAD Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20081021183157.0155a768@pop.isec.pt> Hello all! I'm trying to import a building from AutoCAD to ESP-r. But the errors don?t stop... Can anyone tell me something about this? Where i can find more literature about this (the cookbook is not a good help... and the tutorial web page also...)? Anyone knows an interface to do this? Or, by your experience, it is preferable to make the model using the ESP-r CAD or bitmap? Thanks very much. Regards, Paulo Tavares From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Tue Oct 21 22:34:22 2008 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 22:34:22 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Import model from AutoCAD References: <5.1.0.14.0.20081021183157.0155a768@pop.isec.pt> Message-ID: About AutoCAD import. The standard version of ESP-r has some bugs in the import which have been fixed in the new release (out soon). If you need it sooner then do an svn checkout of https://esp-r.net/espr/esp-r/branches/development_branch The DXF version to be read in needs to be version 12. Each zone should be placed in a different named layer. There are some past messages which discucss further details of the entities that can be read in. Or take an ESP-r model and export it to AutoCAD and have a look. -Jon Hand -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk on behalf of Paulo Tavares Sent: Tue 10/21/2008 6:41 PM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Import model from AutoCAD Hello all! I'm trying to import a building from AutoCAD to ESP-r. But the errors don?t stop... Can anyone tell me something about this? Where i can find more literature about this (the cookbook is not a good help... and the tutorial web page also...)? Anyone knows an interface to do this? Or, by your experience, it is preferable to make the model using the ESP-r CAD or bitmap? Thanks very much. Regards, Paulo Tavares _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From perhaugaard at yahoo.dk Wed Oct 22 08:52:48 2008 From: perhaugaard at yahoo.dk (Per Haugaard) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 07:52:48 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [esp-r] Energy delivered through glazings Message-ID: <130733.54147.qm@web26606.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Dear Usergroup, I am looking for documention on the calculation method for energy delivered through glazed system in ESP-r. Can anybody point me in the right direction? Best regards /Per ______________________ Per Haugaard, Griffenfeldsgade 33, 2.tv 2200 K?benhavn N Denmark mobil: +45 26 39 06 40 E-mail: perhaugaard at yahoo.dk Tr?nger du til at se det store billede? Kelkoo giver dig gode tilbud p? LCD TV! Se her http://dk.yahoo.com/r/pat/lcd -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20081022/e56ee916/attachment.html From ptavares at isec.pt Wed Oct 22 10:29:35 2008 From: ptavares at isec.pt (Paulo Filipe de Almeida Ferreira Tavares) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 10:29:35 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Import model from AutoCAD Message-ID: <1625FB29959296499A2997A53E23F54201730EC0@mailx.isec.pt> Good morning to all. I found this message in the list (from 24/12/2007): "Harry, The objective of developing this software toolkits is to aid the performance of esp-r. It is targeted to be open source once the development completed. The software aims at 3D visual experience and fun to use. The key elements are an AutoCAD like (but much easier to use) 3D model builder and an OpenGL interactive colour rendered 3D model viewer allowing VR flying through. It is generic but robust enough to produce data importable by esp-r. Users no longer need to split a surface to insert a window or a door, or to match another wall in an adjacent room. The splitting and matching of the whole building is done automatically. We estimate that it saves 80% of time and the modelling becomes enjoyable. Currently we are carrying out extensive testing. Creating small models for academic research are trival. We are looking for architects and consulting engineers who use esp-r for real, large commercial projects. To help us and help you, talk to us and send us your cases (we import 2D AutoCAD files). We create the esp-r models for you. It is software beta testing. We do not charge and nor should you. The images and esp-r project will be sent in separate email. You may need to edit the file esp-r/defaul as we are using a different version of esp-r which uses environment variable. Regards, David Tang Chief Engineer, Energy Solutions Owens Corning T: +86 21 6101 9587; F: +86 21 6101 9588; m: +86 13817249419" Anyone knows more about this product? This software is commercially available, or stills beta testing? This company still offers this service? How can i contact Mr. Tang? Best regards, Paulo Tavares -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20081022/7fab90bd/attachment.html From tobias.zitzmann at ise.fraunhofer.de Wed Oct 22 14:25:26 2008 From: tobias.zitzmann at ise.fraunhofer.de (Tobias Zitzmann) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 15:25:26 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Accounting for furniture in ESP-r Message-ID: <48FF29C6.8090808@ise.fraunhofer.de> Hi, We have modelled a room as one simple zone and would like to include obstacles like furniture or additional thermal mass within the zone. Following the FAQ list about how to create furniture, we have conducted the following steps: (a) Creation of two surfaces back-to-back inside the zone (not attached to other bounding surfaces) (b) assignment of a material from the material database to each of the surfaces whereby the material contains only half of the total thickness, (c) boundary assignment using 'adiabatic' conditions. Conducting a 'check surface-vertex topology' after step (a), an error is displayed which states that the 'enclosure is improperly bounded' and that 'edges between vertices... may be unbounded'. What is the exact procedure to solve this problem? Is it for example necessary to link the furniture surfaces to the enclosing surfaces somehow? Any advice is appreciated. Regards Tobias -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20081022/1c7a4fd6/attachment.html From Monika.Hall at josef-gartner.ch Wed Oct 22 16:33:55 2008 From: Monika.Hall at josef-gartner.ch (Hall Monika) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 17:33:55 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Accounting for furniture in ESP-r References: <48FF29C6.8090808@ise.fraunhofer.de> Message-ID: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C53D276@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Hi Tobias, dow did you create the second surface, by copy and invert the first one? The error massages look like that the vertice sequence is not correct. Regards Monika ________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Tobias Zitzmann Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 3:25 PM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Accounting for furniture in ESP-r Hi, We have modelled a room as one simple zone and would like to include obstacles like furniture or additional thermal mass within the zone. Following the FAQ list about how to create furniture, we have conducted the following steps: (a) Creation of two surfaces back-to-back inside the zone (not attached to other bounding surfaces) (b) assignment of a material from the material database to each of the surfaces whereby the material contains only half of the total thickness, (c) boundary assignment using 'adiabatic' conditions. Conducting a 'check surface-vertex topology' after step (a), an error is displayed which states that the 'enclosure is improperly bounded' and that 'edges between vertices... may be unbounded'. What is the exact procedure to solve this problem? Is it for example necessary to link the furniture surfaces to the enclosing surfaces somehow? Any advice is appreciated. Regards Tobias -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20081022/d2ea1e62/attachment-0001.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Wed Oct 22 23:06:56 2008 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 23:06:56 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Accounting for furniture in ESP-r References: <48FF29C6.8090808@ise.fraunhofer.de> <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C53D276@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Message-ID: Current versions of the project manager have an option in the geometry menu to create horizontal or vertical rectangular bodies (give an origin and two dimensions) and it automatically assigns the boundary conditions. It marks two surfaces with the correct edge ordering and it marks the surfaces as partitions (each sees the other) so that, for example, heat on the top of a desk surface gets transmitted through the furniture. That is the easiest way to include furniture in a room. Recent studies indicate that internal clutter in rooms helps in getting the room response over time correct. -Jon Hand -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk on behalf of Hall Monika Sent: Wed 10/22/2008 4:33 PM To: tobias.zitzmann at ise.fraunhofer.de; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Re: Accounting for furniture in ESP-r Hi Tobias, dow did you create the second surface, by copy and invert the first one? The error massages look like that the vertice sequence is not correct. Regards Monika ________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Tobias Zitzmann Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 3:25 PM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Accounting for furniture in ESP-r Hi, We have modelled a room as one simple zone and would like to include obstacles like furniture or additional thermal mass within the zone. Following the FAQ list about how to create furniture, we have conducted the following steps: (a) Creation of two surfaces back-to-back inside the zone (not attached to other bounding surfaces) (b) assignment of a material from the material database to each of the surfaces whereby the material contains only half of the total thickness, (c) boundary assignment using 'adiabatic' conditions. Conducting a 'check surface-vertex topology' after step (a), an error is displayed which states that the 'enclosure is improperly bounded' and that 'edges between vertices... may be unbounded'. What is the exact procedure to solve this problem? Is it for example necessary to link the furniture surfaces to the enclosing surfaces somehow? Any advice is appreciated. Regards Tobias From holger.bertling at gmx.de Thu Oct 30 19:27:34 2008 From: holger.bertling at gmx.de (Holger Bertling) Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 20:27:34 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] instable with global solar Message-ID: <1225394854.6522.25.camel@d> Dear All, I solved my stable-problems within normal simulations. (see: MZELWE Longwave Flux Messages) Now I want to simulate the model with different climate-files. There are only global solar horizontal available. I switched the climate-files with clm to global solar. Now the simulation is really getting instable. MZELWE-Messages without ending. What surprised me: I could read the files with an editor, but after I switched them to global solar they cannot be opend with an editor anymore, even if I write the data out to ASCII-files again. Now I think that maybe the switch is not enough and the model gets the full global as direkt power... Am I missing something? Best regards, Holger From georgios at esru.strath.ac.uk Thu Oct 30 19:44:52 2008 From: georgios at esru.strath.ac.uk (Georgios Kokogiannakis) Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 19:44:52 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: instable with global solar In-Reply-To: <1225394854.6522.25.camel@d> References: <1225394854.6522.25.camel@d> Message-ID: <200810301944.52530.georgios@esru.strath.ac.uk> Hi Holger, The switch from Direct normal to Global Horizontal works fine as far as I am aware. It also exorts ascii files correctly (just tested it). If you manage to open the ascii file you will see a line similar tp this one: 1967,52.00,0.00,123 # year, latitude, long diff, global horiz rad flag the last number (i.e. "123") means that it is using Global horizontal. If it is 0 then it uses direct normal. Regarding the MZELWE Longwave Flux Messages I think you should check your relative humidity values. Do not leave to 0% - change them to something like 50%. Hope this helps. Georgios On Thursday 30 October 2008 19:27, Holger Bertling wrote: > Dear All, > > I solved my stable-problems within normal simulations. > (see: MZELWE Longwave Flux Messages) > > Now I want to simulate the model with different climate-files. > There are only global solar horizontal available. > > I switched the climate-files with clm to global solar. > Now the simulation is really getting instable. > MZELWE-Messages without ending. > > What surprised me: > I could read the files with an editor, > but after I switched them to global solar > they cannot be opend with an editor anymore, > even if I write the data out to ASCII-files again. > > Now I think that maybe the switch is not enough > and the model gets the full global as direkt power... > > Am I missing something? > > Best regards, > Holger > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r -- Energy Systems Research Unit (ESRU) Department of Mechanical Engineering University of Strathclyde From holger.bertling at gmx.de Fri Oct 31 09:36:45 2008 From: holger.bertling at gmx.de (Holger Bertling) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 10:36:45 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: instable with global solar Message-ID: <1225445805.6515.17.camel@d> Hi, I took the CSV-file as userdefined-database and tried to switch the CSV-file... First choosing make new database with zeros and then importing the CSV into it works fine. But it still is very instable, even with the model without mineralwool and a time-step of one Minute. I found some new messages, for example: Default invoked; diffuse h.= global h.; direct n.=0. Day No. = 183 (i.e. 2nd of July), Time 19:15 Hours MZSINT: increment 293416 direct n.1478.1 > solar constant Default invoked; diffuse h.= global h.; direct n.=0. Day No. = 183 (i.e. 2nd of July), Time 19:16 Hours MZSINT: increment 293417 direct n.1632.1 > solar constant The climate-file for this day is: * day 2 month 7 0,169,0,3,338,97 0,166,0,3,339,99 0,163,0,2,339,100 1,161,1,2,339,100 0,160,34,2,340,100 1,168,134,2,343,100 58,184,305,2,341,93 125,201,485,2,349,87 164,216,635,1,12,86 177,231,739,2,64,77 177,241,841,2,78,75 173,247,878,3,78,74 177,248,839,3,71,68 178,248,759,3,67,67 167,248,658,4,69,66 96,242,402,4,73,67 55,235,297,3,68,71 12,226,177,3,63,76 0,211,41,2,57,78 0,196,0,2,57,86 0,187,0,2,70,87 0,180,0,2,61,90 0,173,0,2,39,93 0,166,0,2,41,95 Does anybody know what to do? Thanks in advance and best regards, Holger Am Donnerstag, den 30.10.2008, 19:44 +0000 schrieb Georgios Kokogiannakis: > Hi Holger, > > The switch from Direct normal to Global Horizontal works fine as far as I am > aware. It also exorts ascii files correctly (just tested it). > If you manage to open the ascii file you will see a line similar tp this one: > 1967,52.00,0.00,123 # year, latitude, long diff, global horiz rad flag > > the last number (i.e. "123") means that it is using Global horizontal. If it > is 0 then it uses direct normal. > > Regarding the MZELWE Longwave Flux Messages I think you should check your > relative humidity values. Do not leave to 0% - change them to something like > 50%. > > Hope this helps. > Georgios > > > On Thursday 30 October 2008 19:27, Holger Bertling wrote: > > Dear All, > > > > I solved my stable-problems within normal simulations. > > (see: MZELWE Longwave Flux Messages) > > > > Now I want to simulate the model with different climate-files. > > There are only global solar horizontal available. > > > > I switched the climate-files with clm to global solar. > > Now the simulation is really getting instable. > > MZELWE-Messages without ending. > > > > What surprised me: > > I could read the files with an editor, > > but after I switched them to global solar > > they cannot be opend with an editor anymore, > > even if I write the data out to ASCII-files again. > > > > Now I think that maybe the switch is not enough > > and the model gets the full global as direkt power... > > > > Am I missing something? > > > > Best regards, > > Holger > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > esp-r mailing list > > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > From georgios at esru.strath.ac.uk Fri Oct 31 09:57:52 2008 From: georgios at esru.strath.ac.uk (Georgios Kokogiannakis) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 09:57:52 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Fwd: Re: Re: instable with global solar In-Reply-To: <1225444628.6515.15.camel@d> References: <1225394854.6522.25.camel@d> <200810301944.52530.georgios@esru.strath.ac.uk> <1225444628.6515.15.camel@d> Message-ID: <200810310957.52338.georgios@esru.strath.ac.uk> Hi Holger, Not sure about the rest of your warnings but those that you list here are triggered when high direct normal is calculated (which means that it uses your Global horizontal and calculates the direct normal). To be more precise, I see in the code that the warning pops up when the calculated direct normal exceeds 1353.0 W/m^2. The calculation that I see indicates that this is possible only when solar altitude is less than 12 degrees (e.g. late hours of the day). The values 211 and 41 that I see in this line of your file: > 0,211,41,2,57,78 indicate that at any point below 7-7.5 degrees of solar altitude, you will exceed the limit for the warning. The calculation in the code looks simple. It is this line in solar.F QD=(QDF-QFF)/SIN(SALT*R) where (unfortunately the variables have confusing names so that they make new students to suffer when trying to understand them): QD is the direct normal, QDF is your global horizontal, SALT is the solar altitude (I guess) and R is a trick to account for degrees in the code as PI/180. Regards, Georgios On Friday 31 October 2008 09:17, you wrote: > Hi, > > I took the CSV-file as userdefined-database > and tried to switch the CSV-file... > First choosing make new database with zeros > and then importing the CSV into it works fine. > > But it still is very instable, > even with the model without mineralwool > and a time-step of one Minute. > I found some new messages, for example: > > Default invoked; diffuse h.= global h.; direct n.=0. > Day No. = 183 (i.e. 2nd of July), Time 19:15 Hours > MZSINT: increment 293416 direct n.1478.1 > solar constant > Default invoked; diffuse h.= global h.; direct n.=0. > Day No. = 183 (i.e. 2nd of July), Time 19:16 Hours > MZSINT: increment 293417 direct n.1632.1 > solar constant > > The climate-file for this day is: > > * day 2 month 7 > 0,169,0,3,338,97 > 0,166,0,3,339,99 > 0,163,0,2,339,100 > 1,161,1,2,339,100 > 0,160,34,2,340,100 > 1,168,134,2,343,100 > 58,184,305,2,341,93 > 125,201,485,2,349,87 > 164,216,635,1,12,86 > 177,231,739,2,64,77 > 177,241,841,2,78,75 > 173,247,878,3,78,74 > 177,248,839,3,71,68 > 178,248,759,3,67,67 > 167,248,658,4,69,66 > 96,242,402,4,73,67 > 55,235,297,3,68,71 > 12,226,177,3,63,76 > 0,211,41,2,57,78 > 0,196,0,2,57,86 > 0,187,0,2,70,87 > 0,180,0,2,61,90 > 0,173,0,2,39,93 > 0,166,0,2,41,95 > > Does anybody know what to do? > > Thanks in advance > and best regards, > Holger > > > > Am Donnerstag, den 30.10.2008, 19:44 +0000 schrieb Georgios > > Kokogiannakis: > > Hi Holger, > > > > The switch from Direct normal to Global Horizontal works fine as far as I > > am aware. It also exorts ascii files correctly (just tested it). > > If you manage to open the ascii file you will see a line similar tp this > > one: 1967,52.00,0.00,123 # year, latitude, long diff, global horiz rad > > flag > > > > the last number (i.e. "123") means that it is using Global horizontal. If > > it is 0 then it uses direct normal. > > > > Regarding the MZELWE Longwave Flux Messages I think you should check your > > relative humidity values. Do not leave to 0% - change them to something > > like 50%. > > > > Hope this helps. > > Georgios > > > > On Thursday 30 October 2008 19:27, Holger Bertling wrote: > > > Dear All, > > > > > > I solved my stable-problems within normal simulations. > > > (see: MZELWE Longwave Flux Messages) > > > > > > Now I want to simulate the model with different climate-files. > > > There are only global solar horizontal available. > > > > > > I switched the climate-files with clm to global solar. > > > Now the simulation is really getting instable. > > > MZELWE-Messages without ending. > > > > > > What surprised me: > > > I could read the files with an editor, > > > but after I switched them to global solar > > > they cannot be opend with an editor anymore, > > > even if I write the data out to ASCII-files again. > > > > > > Now I think that maybe the switch is not enough > > > and the model gets the full global as direkt power... > > > > > > Am I missing something? > > > > > > Best regards, > > > Holger > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > esp-r mailing list > > > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r -- Energy Systems Research Unit (ESRU) Department of Mechanical Engineering University of Strathclyde ------------------------------------------------------- -- Energy Systems Research Unit (ESRU) Department of Mechanical Engineering University of Strathclyde From susasaiz at yahoo.ca Sun Nov 2 12:32:50 2008 From: susasaiz at yahoo.ca (Susana Saiz) Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 04:32:50 -0800 (PST) Subject: [esp-r] Daylight simulation Message-ID: <346801.63181.qm@web36606.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi, ? I would like to run a daylight simulation in ESP-r. Do I need to have radiance installed in my computer? also, can I run the simulation directly from ESP-r or do I have to import the file into radiance?, and one last question, for the windows and glazing properties, can i import files from the WINDOW software from LBNL? ? Thanks a lot, ? Susana __________________________________________________________________ Instant Messaging, free SMS, sharing photos and more... Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger at http://ca.beta.messenger.yahoo.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20081102/f3c8dc81/attachment.html From aizaz.a.samuel at strath.ac.uk Mon Nov 3 11:51:00 2008 From: aizaz.a.samuel at strath.ac.uk (Aizaz Samuel) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 11:51:00 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Daylight simulation In-Reply-To: <346801.63181.qm@web36606.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <346801.63181.qm@web36606.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200811031151.00193.aizaz.a.samuel@strath.ac.uk> Susana, You will need to install Radiance in order to run a daylight simulation from ESP-r. As far as I know the link does not work yet on windows. You may want to go through the tutorial available from esru.strath.ac.uk > courseware > ESP-r > daylighting analysis -Aizaz On Sunday 02 November 2008 12:32, Susana Saiz wrote: > Hi, > > I would like to run a daylight simulation in ESP-r. Do I need to have > radiance installed in my computer? also, can I run the simulation directly > from ESP-r or do I have to import the file into radiance?, and one last > question, for the windows and glazing properties, can i import files from > the WINDOW software from LBNL? > > Thanks a lot, > > Susana > > > ________________________________ > Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the > boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail > From rodrigo.jpg at gmail.com Sun Nov 2 22:34:55 2008 From: rodrigo.jpg at gmail.com (Rodrigo perez) Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 19:34:55 -0300 Subject: [esp-r] Manual Esp-r Message-ID: Hello, I would like to know if exist some Esp-r?manual where I can find a complete description of each module of the program. Rodrigo. Santiago, Chile. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20081102/2901304b/attachment.html From lswan at dal.ca Tue Nov 4 13:21:09 2008 From: lswan at dal.ca (Lukas Swan (Dal)) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 09:21:09 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] New file formats - tagged Message-ID: <01eb01c93e80$33f72260$9be56720$@ca> Hi all: I keep seeing bits of information on the list about new file formats that involve a more flexible tagging structure. I am presently batch generating and simulating approximately 17,000 houses through ESP-r. I use templates and either add or replace lines to be representative of each individual house. My question is: has anyone begun to document their new "tagged" format changes similar to the old "Data Model Summary (2001)"? Obviously the cfg is now tagged. Specifically, I have seen reference to the geo file being tagged, and perhaps the con file and certain databases being tagged? Using the preferences->upgrade_files command I could only update the geo file. There are presently some real drawbacks in the present file structure, such as fixed spacing. Thanks Lukas Swan Dal Univ Canada -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20081104/6d1e580a/attachment.html From lswan at dal.ca Tue Nov 4 13:41:58 2008 From: lswan at dal.ca (Lukas Swan (Dal)) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 09:41:58 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] geo and cnn redundancy Message-ID: <020301c93e83$1bf0bed0$53d23c70$@ca> Hi all: I have seen some recent comments about redundancy in files and the issues that result. The geo and cnn files seem to have such redundancy. The geo file requires the exterior boundary condition and in the latest "tagged" format has two "data items" I presume the final two "data items" of the new geo file are similar to the final two "data items" of the cnn file. I presume that the bps likely uses the cnn file instead of the surface attributes section of the geo file. Perhaps this could be modified to deprecate the cnn file? Thanks Lukas Swan Dal Univ Canada -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20081104/c718b8da/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Tue Nov 4 22:34:51 2008 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 22:34:51 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: geo and cnn redundancy In-Reply-To: <020301c93e83$1bf0bed0$53d23c70$@ca> References: <020301c93e83$1bf0bed0$53d23c70$@ca> Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA41303A93608@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> The plan is to depreciate the cnn file in the future. There are several steps that need to implement this change so this is a mid-term goal. At the moment the info in the cnn file takes precedence within bps. -Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Lukas Swan (Dal) [lswan at dal.ca] Sent: 04 November 2008 13:41 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] geo and cnn redundancy Hi all: I have seen some recent comments about redundancy in files and the issues that result. The geo and cnn files seem to have such redundancy. The geo file requires the exterior boundary condition and in the latest ?tagged? format has two ?data items? I presume the final two ?data items? of the new geo file are similar to the final two ?data items? of the cnn file. I presume that the bps likely uses the cnn file instead of the surface attributes section of the geo file. Perhaps this could be modified to deprecate the cnn file? Thanks Lukas Swan Dal Univ Canada From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Tue Nov 4 22:44:34 2008 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 22:44:34 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: New file formats - tagged In-Reply-To: <01eb01c93e80$33f72260$9be56720$@ca> References: <01eb01c93e80$33f72260$9be56720$@ca> Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA41303A93609@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> The data structures for the version 1.1 of the geometry file are documented in the source code esrucom/egeometry.F. There are also text documents that were generated while designing the file format. A bit of archaeology will be required to locate the relevant documents. The version 1.1 file format is stable for now. There are some of the data tags which are not yet fully used (tag for opening types) and some tags that have been defined but are not yet included in the normal file input and output (e.g. viewfactors held within the geometry file) that will be dealt with in the coming weeks. -Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Lukas Swan (Dal) [lswan at dal.ca] Sent: 04 November 2008 13:21 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] New file formats - tagged Hi all: I keep seeing bits of information on the list about new file formats that involve a more flexible tagging structure. I am presently batch generating and simulating approximately 17,000 houses through ESP-r. I use templates and either add or replace lines to be representative of each individual house. My question is: has anyone begun to document their new ?tagged? format changes similar to the old ?Data Model Summary (2001)?? Obviously the cfg is now tagged. Specifically, I have seen reference to the geo file being tagged, and perhaps the con file and certain databases being tagged? Using the preferences->upgrade_files command I could only update the geo file. There are presently some real drawbacks in the present file structure, such as fixed spacing. Thanks Lukas Swan Dal Univ Canada From ptavares at isec.pt Wed Nov 5 11:41:08 2008 From: ptavares at isec.pt (Paulo Filipe de Almeida Ferreira Tavares) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 11:41:08 -0000 Subject: [esp-r] Import from AutoCAD to ESP-r Message-ID: <1625FB29959296499A2997A53E23F54201730ECB@mailx.isec.pt> Hi all. I'm still trying to import a model from AutoCAD (DXF file, version 12) to ESP-r. This time i made a simple model in ESP-r (the model from the Cookbook) and i have exported it to a DXF file to see the AutoCAD details. This step was ok. In the next step i tried to import the same DXF created by ESP-r to a new project and few errors have occured (as i list below) and the program (ESP-r) have closed... I tried to open this new model created, but the ESP-r have closed again... Can anyone explain me what happen? ?ESP-r Project Manager (prj) Release 11.5. Copyright 2001-2007 Energy Systems Research Unit. Using installed version of esprc file. System configuration file is located in folder: /home/paulo/testes/cfg/ Resetting path to: testes/cfg/ WARNING: in /opt/esru/esp-r/databases/multicon.db2: 268 0.7500 Clay underfloor 750 mm : Clay underfloor default 750 mm the layer thickness value (0.75000) > normal maximum 0.50000! configuration files in /home/paulo/testes/cfg/ testes.cfg Based on 2nd line of file: SECTION this file is assumed to be a DXF file. Performing model conversion. Zone only configuration Site location: 55.9N 4.1W of local meridian. Ground reflectivity: constant = 0.20. Site exposure typical city centre. WARNING in testes.cfg: no chars found for SHOCC string in: *shl It is composed of 2 thermal zones which are described in the following files: WARNING in testes.cfg: no chars found for remaining text string in: *shz Plese check your configuration file. Copyright 2001-2007 Energy Systems Research Unit. Using installed version of esprc file. Input file is: /home/paulo/Desktop/GP_offices.DXF The esp-r configuration file will be: testes/cfg/testes.cfg Scanning the problem before updating... Project registration configuration Site location: 55.9N 4.1W of local meridian. Ground reflectivity: constant = 0.20. Site exposure typical city centre. Processing dxf head... Head processed... Tables being processed.... Tables processed.... Processing BLOCK section... Block section processed... Entities processing... Entities processed.... End of conversion. Fatal error: In ../zones/RECEPTION.geo expecting 4 items (insolation data) in... 10, Surf-10 TRAN UNKN UNKNOWN UNKNOWN? Regards: Paulo Tavares -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20081105/ef58bad9/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Wed Nov 5 21:03:08 2008 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 21:03:08 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Import from AutoCAD to ESP-r In-Reply-To: <1625FB29959296499A2997A53E23F54201730ECB@mailx.isec.pt> References: <1625FB29959296499A2997A53E23F54201730ECB@mailx.isec.pt> Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA41303A9360F@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> The version 11.5 used in the example below seems to lack some of the bug fixes that are currently being moved into the standard version of ESP-r. The geometry file being created has fewer data items than are expected (the boundary condition tags are missing). To test this it would be useful to email me the DXF file that you were attempting to read in and I will try it with a different version of the source code that may do a better job. -Jon Hand jon at esru.strath.ac.uk ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Paulo Filipe de Almeida Ferreira Tavares [ptavares at isec.pt] Sent: 05 November 2008 11:41 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Import from AutoCAD to ESP-r Hi all. I'm still trying to import a model from AutoCAD (DXF file, version 12) to ESP-r. This time i made a simple model in ESP-r (the model from the Cookbook) and i have exported it to a DXF file to see the AutoCAD details. This step was ok. In the next step i tried to import the same DXF created by ESP-r to a new project and few errors have occured (as i list below) and the program (ESP-r) have closed... I tried to open this new model created, but the ESP-r have closed again... Can anyone explain me what happen? ?ESP-r Project Manager (prj) Release 11.5. Copyright 2001-2007 Energy Systems Research Unit. Using installed version of esprc file. System configuration file is located in folder: /home/paulo/testes/cfg/ Resetting path to: testes/cfg/ WARNING: in /opt/esru/esp-r/databases/multicon.db2: 268 0.7500 Clay underfloor 750 mm : Clay underfloor default 750 mm the layer thickness value (0.75000) > normal maximum 0.50000! configuration files in /home/paulo/testes/cfg/ testes.cfg Based on 2nd line of file: SECTION this file is assumed to be a DXF file. Performing model conversion. Zone only configuration Site location: 55.9N 4.1W of local meridian. Ground reflectivity: constant = 0.20. Site exposure typical city centre. WARNING in testes.cfg: no chars found for SHOCC string in: *shl It is composed of 2 thermal zones which are described in the following files: WARNING in testes.cfg: no chars found for remaining text string in: *shz Plese check your configuration file. Copyright 2001-2007 Energy Systems Research Unit. Using installed version of esprc file. Input file is: /home/paulo/Desktop/GP_offices.DXF The esp-r configuration file will be: testes/cfg/testes.cfg Scanning the problem before updating... Project registration configuration Site location: 55.9N 4.1W of local meridian. Ground reflectivity: constant = 0.20. Site exposure typical city centre. Processing dxf head... Head processed... Tables being processed.... Tables processed.... Processing BLOCK section... Block section processed... Entities processing... Entities processed.... End of conversion. Fatal error: In ../zones/RECEPTION.geo expecting 4 items (insolation data) in... 10, Surf-10 TRAN UNKN UNKNOWN UNKNOWN? Regards: Paulo Tavares From ptavares at mail.isec.pt Thu Nov 6 15:14:21 2008 From: ptavares at mail.isec.pt (Paulo Tavares) Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2008 15:14:21 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Import from AutoCAD to ESP-r In-Reply-To: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA41303A9360F@E2K7-MS2.ds.strat h.ac.uk> References: <1625FB29959296499A2997A53E23F54201730ECB@mailx.isec.pt> <1625FB29959296499A2997A53E23F54201730ECB@mailx.isec.pt> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20081106151229.01698e20@pop.isec.pt> Good afternoon Jon. In attach i send you the DXF file (obtained from ESP-r when i exported it to DXF). Best regards: Paulo Tavares At 21:03 05-11-2008 +0000, Jon Hand wrote: >The version 11.5 used in the example below seems to lack some of >the bug fixes that are currently being moved into the standard version >of ESP-r. The geometry file being created has fewer data items than >are expected (the boundary condition tags are missing). > >To test this it would be useful to email me the DXF file that you were >attempting to read in and I will try it with a different version of the >source code that may do a better job. > >-Jon Hand >jon at esru.strath.ac.uk >________________________________________ >From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] >On Behalf Of Paulo Filipe de Almeida Ferreira Tavares [ptavares at isec.pt] >Sent: 05 November 2008 11:41 >To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk >Subject: [esp-r] Import from AutoCAD to ESP-r > >Hi all. > >I'm still trying to import a model from AutoCAD (DXF file, version 12) to >ESP-r. > >This time i made a simple model in ESP-r (the model from the Cookbook) and >i have exported it to a DXF file to see the AutoCAD details. This step was ok. > >In the next step i tried to import the same DXF created by ESP-r to a new >project and few errors have occured (as i list below) and the program >(ESP-r) have closed... I tried to open this new model created, but the >ESP-r have closed again... Can anyone explain me what happen? > > >?ESP-r Project Manager (prj) Release 11.5. > >Copyright 2001-2007 Energy Systems Research Unit. > >Using installed version of esprc file. > >System configuration file is located in folder: > >/home/paulo/testes/cfg/ > >Resetting path to: testes/cfg/ > >WARNING: in /opt/esru/esp-r/databases/multicon.db2: 268 0.7500 Clay >underfloor 750 mm : Clay > >underfloor default 750 mm > >the layer thickness value (0.75000) > normal maximum 0.50000! > >configuration files in /home/paulo/testes/cfg/ > >testes.cfg > >Based on 2nd line of file: > >SECTION > >this file is assumed to be a DXF file. > >Performing model conversion. > >Zone only configuration > >Site location: 55.9N 4.1W of local meridian. > >Ground reflectivity: constant = 0.20. > >Site exposure typical city centre. > >WARNING in testes.cfg: no chars found for SHOCC string in: > >*shl > >It is composed of 2 thermal zones which are described in the following files: > >WARNING in testes.cfg: no chars found for remaining text string in: > >*shz > >Plese check your configuration file. > > > >Copyright 2001-2007 Energy Systems Research Unit. > >Using installed version of esprc file. > >Input file is: /home/paulo/Desktop/GP_offices.DXF > >The esp-r configuration file will be: testes/cfg/testes.cfg > >Scanning the problem before updating... > >Project registration configuration > >Site location: 55.9N 4.1W of local meridian. > >Ground reflectivity: constant = 0.20. > >Site exposure typical city centre. > >Processing dxf head... > >Head processed... > >Tables being processed.... > >Tables processed.... > >Processing BLOCK section... > >Block section processed... > >Entities processing... > >Entities processed.... > >End of conversion. > >Fatal error: In ../zones/RECEPTION.geo expecting 4 items (insolation data) >in... > >10, Surf-10 TRAN UNKN UNKNOWN UNKNOWN? > > > >Regards: > >Paulo Tavares > >_______________________________________________ >esp-r mailing list >esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk >http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: GP_offices.DXF Type: application/octet-stream Size: 12293 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20081106/831db2bf/attachment.obj From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Fri Nov 7 03:17:53 2008 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 03:17:53 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: New file formats - tagged - some documentation Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA41303A93613@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> I attach below a commented version of the version 1.1 geometry file of ESP-r. I have marked on it sections which are not-yet-implemented and those sections that appear in the file but are not-yet-used. What will happen soon is enabling long names for multilayer constructions and optical properties databases so that users can begin to use the longer names allowable in the geometry file. Once this is in place the can be a move to tagged data for zone constructions. -Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Lukas Swan (Dal) [lswan at dal.ca] Sent: 04 November 2008 13:21 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] New file formats - tagged Hi all: I keep seeing bits of information on the list about new file formats that involve a more flexible tagging structure. I am presently batch generating and simulating approximately 17,000 houses through ESP-r. I use templates and either add or replace lines to be representative of each individual house. My question is: has anyone begun to document their new ?tagged? format changes similar to the old ?Data Model Summary (2001)?? Obviously the cfg is now tagged. Specifically, I have seen reference to the geo file being tagged, and perhaps the con file and certain databases being tagged? Using the preferences->upgrade_files command I could only update the geo file. There are presently some real drawbacks in the present file structure, such as fixed spacing. Thanks Lukas Swan Dal Univ Canada -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: manager.geo3 Type: application/octet-stream Size: 11650 bytes Desc: manager.geo3 Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20081107/03a2f5f9/attachment.obj From goncalvespedro at hotmail.com Fri Nov 7 12:29:07 2008 From: goncalvespedro at hotmail.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Pedro_Gon=E7alves?=) Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 12:29:07 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] esp-r instalation problem? Message-ID: dear all, I?m trying to install esp-r with fedora core 9 as OS, but when i try to run the package esp-r_v11.5_linux_precomp.run, according instructions (in folder /tmp and as root) the following message appear: [root at localhost tmp]# ./esp-r_v11.5_linux_precomp.runbash: ./esp-r_v11.5_linux_precomp.run: Permission denied Anyone could help me to solve this problem? Thank you in advance. Best regards, Pedro Gon?alves _________________________________________________________________ Instale a Barra de Ferramentas com Desktop Search e ganhe EMOTICONS para o Messenger! ? GR?TIS! http://www.msn.com.br/emoticonpack -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20081107/d8656a45/attachment.html From Bernhard.Schweighofer at tugraz.at Mon Nov 10 07:45:10 2008 From: Bernhard.Schweighofer at tugraz.at (Bernhard Schweighofer) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 08:45:10 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: esp-r instalation problem? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4917E686.1060505@tugraz.at> Hi! Maybe the execution bit isn't set? What does 'ls-l' say? If not set it with 'chmod +x esp-r_v11.5_linux_precomp.run' first. regards bernhard Pedro Gon?alves schrieb: > dear all, > > I?m trying to install esp-r with fedora core 9 as OS, but when i try to > run the package esp-r_v11.5_linux_precomp. run, according instructions > (in folder /tmp and as root) the following message appear: > > [root at localhost tmp]# ./esp-r_v11.5_linux_precomp. run > bash: ./esp-r_v11.5_linux_precomp. run: Permission denied From cah at byg.dtu.dk Mon Nov 10 09:05:45 2008 From: cah at byg.dtu.dk (Christian Anker Hviid) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 10:05:45 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] timedependent behaviour of control loop Message-ID: <78B14BBA2B77DF4186B975430E16648B0D0E64@mail3.byg.dtu.dk> Hello ESP-r users This may be a stupid question but I am wondering what happened to the different day type index numbers? Index 1-3 still exists as weekdays and sat and sun. But what happened to 4-7? This leads to my true question: is it possible to specify different behaviour for summer and winter for a weekday/sat/sun control loop? In some places 52 different loops - one for each week - are mentioned as an option, but how would you do that in a smart way? In other simulation programs you can specify a hierarchy of control loops, but this is not possible in ESP-r. Best regards Christian Hviid, DTU From georgios at esru.strath.ac.uk Mon Nov 10 09:44:11 2008 From: georgios at esru.strath.ac.uk (Georgios Kokogiannakis) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 09:44:11 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: timedependent behaviour of control loop In-Reply-To: <78B14BBA2B77DF4186B975430E16648B0D0E64@mail3.byg.dtu.dk> References: <78B14BBA2B77DF4186B975430E16648B0D0E64@mail3.byg.dtu.dk> Message-ID: <200811100944.11477.georgios@esru.strath.ac.uk> Hi Christian, this is actually a very good question. I recently faced the same issue for one of the CEN validation tests that asks for time shifting between winter and summer for both heating and cooling calculations. The answer is: yes, it is possible. It really though depends what type of control you need to use. If you just want ideal controls you can use the "imposed measured data" option in the "model context" menu and you can define setpoints for every timestep of your simulation. This way you can, for example, account for the time shifting between winter and summer. However, only heating setpoint is allowed in the standard distribution of ESP-r. If you want to assign heating and cooling setpoint at the same time then you will need to checkout my branch with a subversion client (email me if you need more details on this). I have used this control and it improved significantly my results for the validation test. Aizaz Samuel recently improved the standard control loops to accept more day types (you will have to checkout his branch for this) but this will still not do what you want. Hope this helps, Georgios On Monday 10 November 2008 09:05, Christian Anker Hviid wrote: > Hello ESP-r users > > This may be a stupid question but I am wondering what happened to the > different day type index numbers? Index 1-3 still exists as weekdays and > sat and sun. But what happened to 4-7? > > This leads to my true question: is it possible to specify different > behaviour for summer and winter for a weekday/sat/sun control loop? In some > places 52 different loops - one for each week - are mentioned as an option, > but how would you do that in a smart way? In other simulation programs you > can specify a hierarchy of control loops, but this is not possible in > ESP-r. > > Best regards > Christian Hviid, DTU > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From aizaz.a.samuel at strath.ac.uk Mon Nov 10 10:40:58 2008 From: aizaz.a.samuel at strath.ac.uk (Aizaz Samuel) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 10:40:58 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: timedependent behaviour of control loop In-Reply-To: <200811100944.11477.georgios@esru.strath.ac.uk> References: <78B14BBA2B77DF4186B975430E16648B0D0E64@mail3.byg.dtu.dk> <200811100944.11477.georgios@esru.strath.ac.uk> Message-ID: <200811101040.58511.aizaz.a.samuel@strath.ac.uk> Christian, Once the new version is out you may impose seasonal control. You will need to define the actual days of year to be different day types in the context menu first (say summer week/sat/sunday and winter week/sat/sunday). You can then define different behaviour for different day types as usual in the controls. In order to have 52 different loops for the one zone, one (quite powerful) way is to define 52 cfg files and 52 associated control files (possibly using a text editor). Simulate each of these for one week of the year using a shell script. Run results analysis using a script as well and output useful results to some format of relevance. One useful example is ADEPT2.0 at http://www.sesg.strath.ac.uk/downloads.html The scripts there run 125 models for 8 days each and output results to csv files. Regards, Aizaz On Monday 10 November 2008 09:44, Georgios Kokogiannakis wrote: > Hi Christian, > > this is actually a very good question. I recently faced the same issue for > one of the CEN validation tests that asks for time shifting between winter > and summer for both heating and cooling calculations. > The answer is: yes, it is possible. It really though depends what type of > control you need to use. If you just want ideal controls you can use the > "imposed measured data" option in the "model context" menu and you can > define setpoints for every timestep of your simulation. This way you can, > for example, account for the time shifting between winter and summer. > However, only heating setpoint is allowed in the standard distribution of > ESP-r. If you want to assign heating and cooling setpoint at the same time > then you will need to checkout my branch with a subversion client (email me > if you need more details on this). I have used this control and it improved > significantly my results for the validation test. > Aizaz Samuel recently improved the standard control loops to accept more > day types (you will have to checkout his branch for this) but this will > still not do what you want. > > Hope this helps, > Georgios > > On Monday 10 November 2008 09:05, Christian Anker Hviid wrote: > > Hello ESP-r users > > > > This may be a stupid question but I am wondering what happened to the > > different day type index numbers? Index 1-3 still exists as weekdays and > > sat and sun. But what happened to 4-7? > > > > This leads to my true question: is it possible to specify different > > behaviour for summer and winter for a weekday/sat/sun control loop? In > > some places 52 different loops - one for each week - are mentioned as an > > option, but how would you do that in a smart way? In other simulation > > programs you can specify a hierarchy of control loops, but this is not > > possible in ESP-r. > > > > Best regards > > Christian Hviid, DTU > > > > _______________________________________________ > > esp-r mailing list > > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From achim.geissler at intergga.ch Mon Nov 10 11:10:41 2008 From: achim.geissler at intergga.ch (Achim Geissler) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 12:10:41 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: timedependent behaviour of control loop In-Reply-To: <200811101040.58511.aizaz.a.samuel@strath.ac.uk> References: <78B14BBA2B77DF4186B975430E16648B0D0E64@mail3.byg.dtu.dk> <200811100944.11477.georgios@esru.strath.ac.uk> <200811101040.58511.aizaz.a.samuel@strath.ac.uk> Message-ID: <000001c94324$f8520be0$e8f623a0$@geissler@intergga.ch> Aizaz, that sounds interesting. How does one ensure that each consecutive week starts out with the building in the state at the end of the week, i.e. without "startup" each time which may or may not lead to the same results (the link you gave did not work for me, sadly)? Regards, Achim -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Aizaz Samuel Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 11:41 AM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Re: timedependent behaviour of control loop Christian, Once the new version is out you may impose seasonal control. You will need to define the actual days of year to be different day types in the context menu first (say summer week/sat/sunday and winter week/sat/sunday). You can then define different behaviour for different day types as usual in the controls. In order to have 52 different loops for the one zone, one (quite powerful) way is to define 52 cfg files and 52 associated control files (possibly using a text editor). Simulate each of these for one week of the year using a shell script. Run results analysis using a script as well and output useful results to some format of relevance. One useful example is ADEPT2.0 at http://www.sesg.strath.ac.uk/downloads.html The scripts there run 125 models for 8 days each and output results to csv files. Regards, Aizaz On Monday 10 November 2008 09:44, Georgios Kokogiannakis wrote: > Hi Christian, > > this is actually a very good question. I recently faced the same issue for > one of the CEN validation tests that asks for time shifting between winter > and summer for both heating and cooling calculations. > The answer is: yes, it is possible. It really though depends what type of > control you need to use. If you just want ideal controls you can use the > "imposed measured data" option in the "model context" menu and you can > define setpoints for every timestep of your simulation. This way you can, > for example, account for the time shifting between winter and summer. > However, only heating setpoint is allowed in the standard distribution of > ESP-r. If you want to assign heating and cooling setpoint at the same time > then you will need to checkout my branch with a subversion client (email me > if you need more details on this). I have used this control and it improved > significantly my results for the validation test. > Aizaz Samuel recently improved the standard control loops to accept more > day types (you will have to checkout his branch for this) but this will > still not do what you want. > > Hope this helps, > Georgios > > On Monday 10 November 2008 09:05, Christian Anker Hviid wrote: > > Hello ESP-r users > > > > This may be a stupid question but I am wondering what happened to the > > different day type index numbers? Index 1-3 still exists as weekdays and > > sat and sun. But what happened to 4-7? > > > > This leads to my true question: is it possible to specify different > > behaviour for summer and winter for a weekday/sat/sun control loop? In > > some places 52 different loops - one for each week - are mentioned as an > > option, but how would you do that in a smart way? In other simulation > > programs you can specify a hierarchy of control loops, but this is not > > possible in ESP-r. > > > > Best regards > > Christian Hviid, DTU > > > > _______________________________________________ > > esp-r mailing list > > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From jeremy at esru.strath.ac.uk Mon Nov 10 11:22:47 2008 From: jeremy at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jeremy Cockroft) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 11:22:47 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: timedependent behaviour of control loop In-Reply-To: <000001c94324$f8520be0$e8f623a0$@geissler@intergga.ch> References: <78B14BBA2B77DF4186B975430E16648B0D0E64@mail3.byg.dtu.dk> <200811100944.11477.georgios@esru.strath.ac.uk> <200811101040.58511.aizaz.a.samuel@strath.ac.uk>, <000001c94324$f8520be0$e8f623a0$@geissler@intergga.ch> Message-ID: <6603B7AA41177F4197EC5DB20D73FC7F03F8A062@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> Achim, You go to the SESG website www.sesg.strath.ac.uk and click the downloads button. You will find a link there to the ADEPT installer. Note that this uses a non-standard version of ESP-r for now. Jeremy ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Achim Geissler [achim.geissler at intergga.ch] Sent: 10 November 2008 11:10 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Re: timedependent behaviour of control loop Aizaz, that sounds interesting. How does one ensure that each consecutive week starts out with the building in the state at the end of the week, i.e. without "startup" each time which may or may not lead to the same results (the link you gave did not work for me, sadly)? Regards, Achim -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Aizaz Samuel Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 11:41 AM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Re: timedependent behaviour of control loop Christian, Once the new version is out you may impose seasonal control. You will need to define the actual days of year to be different day types in the context menu first (say summer week/sat/sunday and winter week/sat/sunday). You can then define different behaviour for different day types as usual in the controls. In order to have 52 different loops for the one zone, one (quite powerful) way is to define 52 cfg files and 52 associated control files (possibly using a text editor). Simulate each of these for one week of the year using a shell script. Run results analysis using a script as well and output useful results to some format of relevance. One useful example is ADEPT2.0 at http://www.sesg.strath.ac.uk/downloads.html The scripts there run 125 models for 8 days each and output results to csv files. Regards, Aizaz On Monday 10 November 2008 09:44, Georgios Kokogiannakis wrote: > Hi Christian, > > this is actually a very good question. I recently faced the same issue for > one of the CEN validation tests that asks for time shifting between winter > and summer for both heating and cooling calculations. > The answer is: yes, it is possible. It really though depends what type of > control you need to use. If you just want ideal controls you can use the > "imposed measured data" option in the "model context" menu and you can > define setpoints for every timestep of your simulation. This way you can, > for example, account for the time shifting between winter and summer. > However, only heating setpoint is allowed in the standard distribution of > ESP-r. If you want to assign heating and cooling setpoint at the same time > then you will need to checkout my branch with a subversion client (email me > if you need more details on this). I have used this control and it improved > significantly my results for the validation test. > Aizaz Samuel recently improved the standard control loops to accept more > day types (you will have to checkout his branch for this) but this will > still not do what you want. > > Hope this helps, > Georgios > > On Monday 10 November 2008 09:05, Christian Anker Hviid wrote: > > Hello ESP-r users > > > > This may be a stupid question but I am wondering what happened to the > > different day type index numbers? Index 1-3 still exists as weekdays and > > sat and sun. But what happened to 4-7? > > > > This leads to my true question: is it possible to specify different > > behaviour for summer and winter for a weekday/sat/sun control loop? In > > some places 52 different loops - one for each week - are mentioned as an > > option, but how would you do that in a smart way? In other simulation > > programs you can specify a hierarchy of control loops, but this is not > > possible in ESP-r. > > > > Best regards > > Christian Hviid, DTU > > > > _______________________________________________ > > esp-r mailing list > > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From aizaz.a.samuel at strath.ac.uk Mon Nov 10 11:40:56 2008 From: aizaz.a.samuel at strath.ac.uk (Aizaz Samuel) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 11:40:56 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: timedependent behaviour of control loop In-Reply-To: <000001c94324$f8520be0$e8f623a0$@geissler@intergga.ch> References: <78B14BBA2B77DF4186B975430E16648B0D0E64@mail3.byg.dtu.dk> <200811101040.58511.aizaz.a.samuel@strath.ac.uk> <000001c94324$f8520be0$e8f623a0$@geissler@intergga.ch> Message-ID: <200811101140.57007.aizaz.a.samuel@strath.ac.uk> Achim, No simple way of what you say comes to mind save using temporal definition. Currently running a consecutive simulation is possible using day type extensions available in my branch (day types need to be increased to 52x3 days). I do not know how critical the model is to initial values or how variegated the control loops are. It should be possible to use fewer day types and more simulations by modelling recommended number of pre-sim days (or more) with requisite controls. Again this too will be model specific. It does present a case for further development though in that final timestep conditions from a previously run simulation be imposed as the initial conditions for another simulation. To get the ADEPT project do as Jeremy states or get the readme file from http://www.sesg.strath.ac.uk/Downloads/ADEPT2.0_Readme.pdf and follow it for the full download Regards, Aizaz On Monday 10 November 2008 11:10, Achim Geissler wrote: > Aizaz, > > that sounds interesting. How does one ensure that each consecutive week > starts out with the building in the state at the end of the week, i.e. > without "startup" each time which may or may not lead to the same results > (the link you gave did not work for me, sadly)? > > Regards, > Achim > > > -----Original Message----- > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk > [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Aizaz Samuel > Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 11:41 AM > To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Subject: [esp-r] Re: timedependent behaviour of control loop > > Christian, > > Once the new version is out you may impose seasonal control. > You will need to define the actual days of year to be different day types > in > > the context menu first (say summer week/sat/sunday and winter > week/sat/sunday). You can then define different behaviour for different day > types as usual in the controls. > > In order to have 52 different loops for the one zone, one (quite powerful) > way > is to define 52 cfg files and 52 associated control files (possibly using a > text editor). Simulate each of these for one week of the year using a shell > script. Run results analysis using a script as well and output useful > results > to some format of relevance. One useful example is ADEPT2.0 at > http://www.sesg.strath.ac.uk/downloads.html The scripts there run 125 > models > > for 8 days each and output results to csv files. > > Regards, > Aizaz > > On Monday 10 November 2008 09:44, Georgios Kokogiannakis wrote: > > Hi Christian, > > > > this is actually a very good question. I recently faced the same issue > > for one of the CEN validation tests that asks for time shifting between > > winter and summer for both heating and cooling calculations. > > The answer is: yes, it is possible. It really though depends what type of > > control you need to use. If you just want ideal controls you can use the > > "imposed measured data" option in the "model context" menu and you can > > define setpoints for every timestep of your simulation. This way you can, > > for example, account for the time shifting between winter and summer. > > However, only heating setpoint is allowed in the standard distribution of > > ESP-r. If you want to assign heating and cooling setpoint at the same > > time then you will need to checkout my branch with a subversion client > > (email > > me > > > if you need more details on this). I have used this control and it > > improved > > > significantly my results for the validation test. > > Aizaz Samuel recently improved the standard control loops to accept more > > day types (you will have to checkout his branch for this) but this will > > still not do what you want. > > > > Hope this helps, > > Georgios > > > > On Monday 10 November 2008 09:05, Christian Anker Hviid wrote: > > > Hello ESP-r users > > > > > > This may be a stupid question but I am wondering what happened to the > > > different day type index numbers? Index 1-3 still exists as weekdays > > > and sat and sun. But what happened to 4-7? > > > > > > This leads to my true question: is it possible to specify different > > > behaviour for summer and winter for a weekday/sat/sun control loop? In > > > some places 52 different loops - one for each week - are mentioned as > > > an option, but how would you do that in a smart way? In other > > > simulation programs you can specify a hierarchy of control loops, but > > > this is not possible in ESP-r. > > > > > > Best regards > > > Christian Hviid, DTU > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > esp-r mailing list > > > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > > > > _______________________________________________ > > esp-r mailing list > > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Fri Nov 14 07:23:21 2008 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 07:23:21 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] a master checklist for users of ESP-r Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA41303A9361D@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> I went through the Cookbook procedures and reviewed recent simulation projects and created a master checklist for tasks e.g. 'what to do next' and 'what to check' and 'when to create archives' at each stage of a simulation project. I might have forgotten a few issues (let me know) but this does bring together in one list a summary of good practice. I will add this (and corrections) to the Cookbook in the next few weeks. Regards, Jon Hand -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: the_concise_task_list.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 91426 bytes Desc: the_concise_task_list.pdf Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20081114/6f0f7c43/attachment-0001.pdf From ptavares at isec.pt Wed Nov 19 11:42:39 2008 From: ptavares at isec.pt (Paulo Filipe de Almeida Ferreira Tavares) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 11:42:39 -0000 Subject: [esp-r] Number of zones in ESP-r Message-ID: <1625FB29959296499A2997A53E23F54201730ED8@mailx.isec.pt> Hi all. Where can i find information about, or who knows, what is the limit number of zones that i can have in a building in ESP-r (in a single project)? Regards, Paulo Tavares -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20081119/cd64845f/attachment.html From achim.geissler at intergga.ch Wed Nov 19 12:17:04 2008 From: achim.geissler at intergga.ch (Achim Geissler) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 13:17:04 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Number of zones in ESP-r In-Reply-To: <1625FB29959296499A2997A53E23F54201730ED8@mailx.isec.pt> References: <1625FB29959296499A2997A53E23F54201730ED8@mailx.isec.pt> Message-ID: <000601c94a40$bcb39d60$361ad820$@geissler@intergga.ch> Dear Paulo, this depends on the file "building.h" which was used for compilation. In this file, search for "MCOM". Regards, Achim From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Paulo Filipe de Almeida Ferreira Tavares Sent: Mittwoch, 19. November 2008 12:43 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Number of zones in ESP-r Hi all. Where can i find information about, or who knows, what is the limit number of zones that i can have in a building in ESP-r (in a single project)? Regards, Paulo Tavares -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20081119/62c849fe/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Wed Nov 19 17:29:16 2008 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 17:29:16 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Number of zones in ESP-r - it will soon tell you this Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA41303A93626@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> Code has gone into one of the branches which allows a user to view a dozen of the primary parameters dictating the complexity of model supported by ESP-r. This saves rooting around in the source files and it also helps when planning models so as to avoid painting oneself into a corner. -Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Achim Geissler [achim.geissler at intergga.ch] Sent: 19 November 2008 12:17 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Re: Number of zones in ESP-r Dear Paulo, this depends on the file ?building.h? which was used for compilation. In this file, search for ?MCOM?. Regards, Achim From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Paulo Filipe de Almeida Ferreira Tavares Sent: Mittwoch, 19. November 2008 12:43 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Number of zones in ESP-r Hi all. Where can i find information about, or who knows, what is the limit number of zones that i can have in a building in ESP-r (in a single project)? Regards, Paulo Tavares From ibeausol at mae.carleton.ca Fri Nov 21 19:53:46 2008 From: ibeausol at mae.carleton.ca (Ian Beausoleil-Morrison) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 14:53:46 -0500 Subject: [esp-r] release of ESP-r version 11.6 Message-ID: <004a01c94c12$dde87090$99b951b0$@carleton.ca> Dear ESP-r users and developers, Version 11.6 of the ESP-r system is now available. A summary of the changes and new features included in this release is given at the bottom of this e-mail. The source code may be accessed via the ESP-r Central Subversion repository. To do this, you must first install a Subversion client on your system. Free clients are available at http://subversion.tigris.org/project_packages.html. Once you have installed the Subversion client you can download the source code for version 11.6 of ESP-r anonymously using the following command: svn checkout https://esp-r.net/espr/esp-r/trunk OR svn checkout http://esp-r.net/espr/esp-r/trunk If you already downloaded the source code of a previous version with the above command, then you do not have to do a full download of version 11.6. Rather, you can update the source code by executing the following command from your "trunk" directory: svn update (ESP-r developers who wish to make source code contributions to ESP-r should contact Alex Ferguson at afersugo at nrcan.gc.ca who can configure an account for you on ESP-r Central. Further information on ESP-r Central for developers is available on the ESRU web site.) ESP-r source code is available exclusively through ESP-r Central. However, ESRU will continue to produce and post pre-compiled versions for specific operating environments on its web site. These binary versions will generally be made available within a few days of a source code release and will be announced to this e-mail list. Release notes will also continue to be posted on the ESRU web site. Regards, - Ian Ian Beausoleil-Morrison ESP-r Archivist on behalf of the ESP-r development team Carleton University Ottawa, Canada Release Notes 11.6 (November 2008) ==================== Simulator --------- - The convective heat transfer calculation algorithm taken from ISO 15099 for vertical ventilated channels has been added. - A number of improvements have been made to the TRNSYS plant component "wrapper". This includes restructuring the code used to read TRNSYS wrapper's input file in order to improve code readability and increase the input file's flexibility. User-implemented function values are now supported as inputs in this file. The use of TRNSYS storage variables is now also possible. A number of coding errors have been addressed and the code documentation has been improved. - Reading of bidirectional optical datasets from measurements has been expanded to include (and use) multiple datasets and different types of datasets. Controls have been also added to switch between different datasets during simulation. - The battery model was improved by adding a battery life calculation and optional active battery life control. The model can now also be used to simulate (Vanadium) Redox Flow batteries. - Minor modifications were made to the electrolyzer model, the hydrogen PEMFC model and the hydrogen compressor model to add inputs or to fix bugs. - A multi-stage hydrogen compressor was added to the plant database. - New plant components for a boiler and a radiator have been added. - A new BASESIMP type '999' boundary condition has been added to allow results generated from NRCan's BASECALC program to be used in ESP-r simulations. - The calculation of the heat addition rate to a plant component model of a humidifier has been corrected. As well, additional outputs have been added to this model. - Outputs have been added to the plant component models for a a damper and a value. No calculation changes have been made to these models. - Plant database entries have been added for models that represent a basic heat exchanger, a reversible heat pump, a basic radiator, a pump, an hydronic heat rejection device, a multi-junction, and a fan. The static templates and coefficient generators for these models have existed in the source code for a long time; however, these models have not been accessible since their corresponding database entries were absent. - A long-standing bug in the water storage tank plant components that were created and that have been used extensively for modelling cogeneration systems (plant components #57 and #78) has been repaired. - A bug in the treatment of thermal bridges has been repaired. - Improvements have been made to the iterative solution procedure for plant networks. - The xml and csv results output facility has been expanded to consider additional simulation parameters. Some formatting changes have also been made. - A number of bugs in the idealized HVAC models have been repaired. - Added logic to avoid numerical problems with one of the external convection correlations. This resolves a bug with Loveday's "raw wind speed" external convection correlation (listed in the ESP-r simulation toggles menu). Project Manager --------------- - The display of help messages in the GTK version has been improved and a number of bugs have been repaired. - The functionality of the tdf module has been merged into the Project Manager to facilitate the use of temporal data. Temporal data need no longer be described at the same frequency as the simulation, and can be used with simulations of differing time resolution. - Additional functionality has been added in preparation for demonstrating compliance with the UK building regulations. A sub-folder has been included to support UK building code compliance requirements for specific occupancy, lighting and small power loads for standard room types in buildings. Users will use these definitions if they have selected the UK_NCM method in the interface. - Alterations in the treatment of day types for operations have been made. - A number of bugs related to the importation of DXF version 12 files have been repaired and associated help messages have been improved. - The interface for defining scheduled air flows has been improved. - Support for reading optical data generated by Window 5.1 and 5.2 has been added. - A check has been added to ensure that specified day-types correspond to the current simulation year. Climate Data ------------ - Climate files for Cuban and Mexican locations have been added. Additional Changes ------------------ - Many additional changes have been made that are transparent to the user. Information on these, as well as further details on all the above-mentioned changes, can be found in ESP-r Central's change log by providing the following URL to your web browser: https://esp-r.net/vvc/espr/esp-r/branches/development_branch. From Gunter.Pueltz at MuellerBBM.de Tue Nov 25 12:55:20 2008 From: Gunter.Pueltz at MuellerBBM.de (Pueltz, Gunter) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 13:55:20 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] validation of ESP-r according to EN 15265 and EN 15255 Message-ID: Dear ESRUs, in respect of energy efficincy the indoor quality of buildings can be evaluated according to EN 15251. This evaluation includes thermal comfort in winter and thermal comfort in summer - and some additional criteria, e.g. indoor air quality, lighting quality, etc. Concerning the thermal comfort EN 15251 proposes room based (zonal) thermal simulations for the prediction of room temperatures. But EN 15251 requires thermal simulation tools (like ESP -r), which have been validated according to European Standards EN 15265 and EN 15255 (see chapter 8.3.1 of EN 15251:2007). Due to these requirements of EN 15251 my questions: - Has ESP-r been validated to these test cases in EN 15265 and EN 15255 ? - In case of is an official validation certificate for ESP-r available from ESRU ? Your answers might be interesting for several users of ESP-r, which are included into certification processes for sustainable buildings. Kind regards, Gunter -- Dr. Gunter P?ltz M?ller-BBM GmbH Robert-Koch-Stra?e 11 82152 Planegg Telefon +49 (0)89 85602 - 336 Telefax +49 (0)89 85602 - 111 http://www.MuellerBBM.de HRB M?nchen 86143 Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Bernd Gr?zinger, Dr. Edwin Schorer, Norbert Suritsch From georgios at esru.strath.ac.uk Thu Nov 27 14:46:10 2008 From: georgios at esru.strath.ac.uk (Georgios Kokogiannakis) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 14:46:10 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: validation of ESP-r according to EN 15265 and EN 15255 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200811271446.11541.georgios@esru.strath.ac.uk> Dear Gunter, I have worked on the ESP-r's modelling of the 15265 tests during the last month or so. I have completed the tests and it was necessary to develop specific code to deal with two parts of the specifications: 1) to impose global solar radiation on vertical west facing surfaces 2) to account for time shifting of all schedules (including heating and cooling setpoints) between summer and winter. The code is only in my branch and it will probably be in the next official release of ESP-r. However, to complete the tests I am puzzled with another point in the specifications and here is where I need your advice (or the advice of someone who is familiar with these specifications): -I can not figure out the optical properties for ESP-r based on what I read in this Standard. There are two types of glazing (shaded double and just double) and the Standard defines transmittance, absorptance and reflectance of the window glazing components plus the g-value. However, it also says that all these solar parameters are considered as independet of the solar angle!!! I will have to use WIS or WINDOW5 to get the angular data for ESP-r but I am not sure how to interpret the specifications. Can you advise me on this (or better: can you send me the angular data for these glazing systems)? These tests seem to be very sensitive on the type of optics used. If I figure out the details on the optics I can make sure that the next version of ESP-r includes the required code for these tests and that ESRU will publish a report for your needs. However, I am not aware if there is anybody working on the 15255 (the other Standard that you mention). Regards, Georgios On Tuesday 25 November 2008 12:55, Pueltz, Gunter wrote: > Dear ESRUs, > > in respect of energy efficincy the indoor quality of buildings can be > evaluated according to EN 15251. > This evaluation includes thermal comfort in winter and thermal comfort > in summer - and some additional criteria, e.g. indoor air quality, > lighting quality, etc. > > Concerning the thermal comfort EN 15251 proposes room based (zonal) > thermal simulations for the prediction of room temperatures. > But EN 15251 requires thermal simulation tools (like ESP -r), which > have been validated according to European Standards EN 15265 and EN 15255 > (see chapter 8.3.1 of EN 15251:2007). > Due to these requirements of EN 15251 my questions: > - Has ESP-r been validated to these test cases in EN 15265 and EN 15255 ? > - In case of is an official validation certificate for ESP-r available > from ESRU ? > > Your answers might be interesting for several users of ESP-r, which are > included into certification processes for sustainable buildings. > > Kind regards, > Gunter > > -- > Dr. Gunter P?ltz > > M?ller-BBM GmbH > Robert-Koch-Stra?e 11 > 82152 Planegg > Telefon +49 (0)89 85602 - 336 > Telefax +49 (0)89 85602 - 111 > http://www.MuellerBBM.de > > HRB M?nchen 86143 > Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Bernd Gr?zinger, Dr. Edwin Schorer, Norbert Suritsch > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From perhaugaard at yahoo.dk Fri Nov 28 13:39:27 2008 From: perhaugaard at yahoo.dk (Per Haugaard) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 13:39:27 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [esp-r] Installing the new version of ESP-r om Ubunto version 8.10 Message-ID: <765517.41045.qm@web26603.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Dear ESP-r Community, I have just begun installing the new version of ESP-r on Ubuntu Version 8.10. I have added the following to the .profile file in /home/pha: #Set PATH for ESP-r and Radiance RAYPATH= .:/lib:/opt/radiance/lib:/opt/radiance/bin PATH=$PATH:/opt/esru/bin:/opt/esru/esp-r/bin:/opt/radiance/lib:/opt/radiance/bin and I get the following error when trying to run esp-r: prj: error while loading shared libraries: libg2c.so.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory I have tried to find the libg2c.so.0 file? but without any luck. Does anyone have any idea on how to solve this problem? Best regards Per Haugaard ______________________ Per Haugaard, Griffenfeldsgade 33, 2.tv 2200 K?benhavn N Denmark mobil: +45 26 39 06 40 E-mail: perhaugaard at yahoo.dk Tr?nger du til at se det store billede? Kelkoo giver dig gode tilbud p? LCD TV! Se her http://dk.yahoo.com/r/pat/lcd -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20081128/8fff0704/attachment.html From manzan at units.it Fri Nov 28 21:10:48 2008 From: manzan at units.it (Marco Manzan) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 22:10:48 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: esp-r Digest, Vol 28, Issue 14 Message-ID: <20081128221048.n8onxniblgo4o040@webmail.units.it> Citando esp-r-request at lists.strath.ac.uk: > Send esp-r mailing list submissions to > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > esp-r-request at lists.strath.ac.uk > > You can reach the person managing the list at > esp-r-owner at lists.strath.ac.uk > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of esp-r digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Installing the new version of ESP-r om Ubunto version 8.10 > (Per Haugaard) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 13:39:27 +0000 (GMT) > From: Per Haugaard > Subject: [esp-r] Installing the new version of ESP-r om Ubunto version > 8.10 > To: esp-r > Message-ID: <765517.41045.qm at web26603.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Dear ESP-r Community, > > I have just begun installing the new version of ESP-r on Ubuntu Version 8.10. > > I have added the following to the .profile file in /home/pha: > > #Set PATH for ESP-r and Radiance > RAYPATH= .:/lib:/opt/radiance/lib:/opt/radiance/bin > PATH=$PATH:/opt/esru/bin:/opt/esru/esp-r/bin:/opt/radiance/lib:/opt/radiance/bin > > and I get the following error when trying to run esp-r: > > prj: error while loading shared libraries: libg2c.so.0: cannot open > shared object file: No such file or directory > > I have tried to find the libg2c.so.0 file? but without any luck. > > Does anyone have any idea on how to solve this problem? > > Best regards > > Per Haugaard > > ______________________ > > > > Per Haugaard, > > Griffenfeldsgade 33, 2.tv > > 2200 K?benhavn N > > Denmark > > > > mobil: +45 26 39 06 40 > > E-mail: perhaugaard at yahoo.dk > > > Tr?nger du til at se det store billede? Kelkoo giver dig gode > tilbud p? LCD TV! Se her http://dk.yahoo.com/r/pat/lcd > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20081128/8fff0704/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > > End of esp-r Digest, Vol 28, Issue 14 > ************************************* > I have not yet installed 8.10, I'm still working with 8.04 and the required packages are libg2c0 or ling2c0-dev the command is sudo apt-get install libg2c0 ling2c0-dev if the package is not present try installing the package apt-file to search the required among the packages sudo apt-get install apt-file sudo apt-file update apt-file search libg2c.so.0 Marco -- _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ |Marco Manzan Email: manzan at units.it | |Tel: (+39) 040 5583506 Fax : (+39) 040 572033 | |Dipartimento di Ingegneria Navale, del Mare e per l'Ambiente | |Universita' degli Studi di Trieste | |piazzale Europa 1, 34127 TRIESTE | |_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _| ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. From perhaugaard at yahoo.dk Sun Nov 30 10:41:33 2008 From: perhaugaard at yahoo.dk (Per Haugaard) Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 10:41:33 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [esp-r] Gendaylit Message-ID: <34433.20097.qm@web26608.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Dear users, I know this question is not directly linked to using ESP-r/Radiance but more in installing and making the programmes work as standalone and in coupling. Therefore I hope this is the right forum to post such a question :) I am using Ubuntu v. 8.10. I have downloaded and installed Radiance and ESP-r. Both programmes seems to work but there might be missing some libraries to Ubuntu. In order to make the coupling between ESP-r and Radiance, Gendaylit needs to be installed. I have done so by changing the makefile in the Gendaylit package to: CCOPTS= -g #CCOPTS= -Ae -g???? # HPUX CC=gcc #CC=cc and issued the command 'make'. I have copied the file 'Gendaylit' to '/opt/radiance/bin'? and 'coeff_perez.dat', 'defangle.dat' and 'perezlum.cal' to '/opt/radiance/lib' To test the Gendaylit file one can issue 'make skyview'. I have done so both as root and as PHA and I get the following errors: oconv -f sky.rad outside.rad > sky.oct /bin/sh: oconv: not found make: *** [skyview] Error 127 or oconv -f sky.rad outside.rad > sky.oct /bin/sh: cannot create sky.oct: Permission denied make: *** [skyview] Error 2 I must also say that I have added the following to both '.profile'-files in '/home/pha' and in '/root' #Set PATH for ESP-r and Radiance RAYPATH= .:/lib:/opt/radiance/lib:/opt/radiance/bin PATH=$PATH:/opt/esru/bin:/opt/esru/esp-r/bin:/opt/radiance/lib:/opt/radiance/bin export PATH RAYPATH unset USERNAME I suspect that there is something wrong with '/bin/sh' which is listed in Ubuntu 8.10 as symlink 'sh -> dash' and 'sh.distrib -> bash'. I am afraid to make any changes to the Linux distribution because I am not that familiar with Linux. Can anybody spot a solution to my problem? Any help is appreciated. Best regards Per Haugaard ______________________ Per Haugaard, Griffenfeldsgade 33, 2.tv 2200 K?benhavn N Denmark mobil: +45 26 39 06 40 E-mail: perhaugaard at yahoo.dk Find din nye laptop p? kelkoo.dk. Se de gode tilbud her - http://dk.yahoo.com/r/pat/mm -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20081130/478ddb34/attachment.html From Bernhard.Schweighofer at tugraz.at Tue Dec 2 07:57:48 2008 From: Bernhard.Schweighofer at tugraz.at (Bernhard Schweighofer) Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2008 08:57:48 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Installing the new version of ESP-r om Ubunto version 8.10 In-Reply-To: <765517.41045.qm@web26603.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <765517.41045.qm@web26603.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4934EA7C.2040007@tugraz.at> Per Haugaard schrieb: > ... > prj: error while loading shared libraries: libg2c.so.0: cannot open shared > object file: No such file or directory Looks like the package "libg2c" isn't installed - is it? regards Bernhard From kim_minhwan at dasskorea.com Thu Dec 4 06:42:08 2008 From: kim_minhwan at dasskorea.com (=?ks_c_5601-1987?B?sei5zsiv?=) Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2008 15:42:08 +0900 Subject: [esp-r] Re: =?ks_c_5601-1987?q?esp-r_native_version_in_Windows_Vista_sett?= =?ks_c_5601-1987?q?ing?= Message-ID: <122837292814114380@kim_minhwan> Hi everyone, This is Minhwan Kim. When you use esp-r native window version in Windows Vista, weren't there any problems to run it and save it? I wonder if there's any way that we can manage these problems, not replacing OS to Windows XP. Hope I can here you soon. Kim, Min-hwan Assistant Manager, Integrated Simulation Team. Design and Simulation for Sustainability (DASS) consultants Ltd. 139-743 31-dong(Business Incubator Center) 103-ho, Seoul National University of Technology 174 Gongreung 2-dong Nowon-gu, Seoul, Korea T. 82.2.913.2585 F. 82.2.949.2585 H. www.dasskorea.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20081204/40c4f387/attachment.html From yeoni0712 at gmail.com Thu Dec 4 06:06:38 2008 From: yeoni0712 at gmail.com (Jong Yeon Lim) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 15:06:38 +0900 Subject: [esp-r] How to execute ESP-r in MATLAB m file ?? Message-ID: <630809b70812032206j28ce60f4g9a545d3feb533245@mail.gmail.com> Hi everyone, I was wondering whether somebody has used matlab scripts in the past to perform ESP-r tasks in native Windows (not in Cygwin). After I write the m file that geneate input file, How can I execute ESP-r in MATLAB window? Any advice and help on this will be much appreciated. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20081204/72ba63f5/attachment.html From obrien_liam at hotmail.com Sat Dec 6 19:01:42 2008 From: obrien_liam at hotmail.com (Liam O'Brien) Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 14:01:42 -0500 Subject: [esp-r] Re: How to execute ESP-r in MATLAB m file ?? In-Reply-To: <630809b70812032206j28ce60f4g9a545d3feb533245@mail.gmail.com> References: <630809b70812032206j28ce60f4g9a545d3feb533245@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Try using this command in your m-file: dos(['bps -file c:\esru\models\model_name\cfg\config_name.cfg -mode text -p std silent']); The "sdt" refers to the results set definitions (e.g. time-step length, date range, etc.). I would set this up in the GUI version of RES before running it from MATLAB. >From my experience, if this doesn't work, it's more likely a bug in your model than anything else. Note that using the native Windows version doesn't let you get XML/CSV outputs, meaning that you're pretty much forced to extract data from the .res file manually, as far as I know. Liam O'Brien Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 15:06:38 +0900 From: yeoni0712 at gmail.com To: esp-r at strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] How to execute ESP-r in MATLAB m file ?? Hi everyone, I was wondering whether somebody has used matlab scripts in the past to perform ESP-r tasks in native Windows (not in Cygwin). After I write the m file that geneate input file, How can I execute ESP-r in MATLAB window? Any advice and help on this will be much appreciated. _________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20081206/da71b4a9/attachment.html From goncalvespedro at hotmail.com Sat Dec 6 21:52:41 2008 From: goncalvespedro at hotmail.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Pedro_Gon=E7alves?=) Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 21:52:41 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Linkage between Plant Network and Fluid Flow Network Message-ID: Dear All, When we are setting up a plant network and a fluid flow network separetely, we could define, p.e. a fan with diferents flows for both networks. But after the linkage between them we shoud have the same flow for boths - I think. Makes sense! But how could we certify this? Thank for your attention in advance, Best regards PG _________________________________________________________________ Confira v?deos com not?cias do NY Times, gols direto do Lance, videocassetadas e muito mais no MSN Video! http://video.msn.com/?mkt=pt-br -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20081206/f52d443a/attachment.html From froshin at dasskorea.com Mon Dec 8 05:20:44 2008 From: froshin at dasskorea.com (=?ks_c_5601-1987?B?TGV3aXMgWW9vaw==?=) Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2008 14:20:44 +0900 Subject: [esp-r] =?ks_c_5601-1987?q?_How_can_I_find_the_manual_for_menu_compositi?= =?ks_c_5601-1987?b?b24/?= Message-ID: <12287136449138740@froshin> Dear Users. I am looking for any document in which I can find some explanation of 'esp-r' menu. For example, I'd like to know the exact meaning of each item in Result analysis menu. What document can I refer to for understanding the menu composition??? I appreciate your response in advance. Lewis Yook Team Manager, Integrated Simulation Unit. Design and Simulation for Sustainability (DASS) consultants Ltd. 143-834 Venture Support Center 304-ho 632-9 Guui-dong Gwangjin-gu, Seoul, Korea T. 82.2.913.2585 F. 82.2.949.2585 H. www.dasskorea.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20081208/c6152841/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Mon Dec 8 09:28:31 2008 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 09:28:31 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: How can I find the manual for menu composition? In-Reply-To: <12287136449138740@froshin> References: <12287136449138740@froshin> Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA41309FB2E3FEB@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> A question about the meaning of menu picks in the results analysis module of ESP-r. ::I am looking for any document in which I can find some explanation of 'esp-r' menu. ::For example, I'd like to know the exact meaning of each item in Result analysis menu. ::What document can I refer to for understanding the menu composition??? Each menu in ESP-r has a '?' option for context sensitive help. This is the first place to look for information on the choices being offered. In some cases the text may be less helpful that some users would like or confusing to some. This is a great place where the community can help to identify deficiencies and offer suggestions for improving the text. In many cases the ESP-r Cookbook is a good place to look for additional information - but the chapter on the use of the results analysis module is not yet complete. Regards, Jon Hand From lichunying83 at gmail.com Tue Dec 9 03:28:51 2008 From: lichunying83 at gmail.com (chunying li) Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 11:28:51 +0800 Subject: [esp-r] Re: esp-r Digest, Vol 29, Issue 4 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1a35f1300812081928j5a517e2fof6d34b3c5c63c4f1@mail.gmail.com> Hello, I want to realize the control of screen according to the lux level in a room. Now on the website of http://www.esru.strath.ac.uk/Courseware/ESP-r/ex_furt_sim.htm I found a similar function of lighting and blind control. In the page, it says " choose "lighting and blind control" from the "zone definition" menu. But there is only a "zone composition" menu instead of "zone definition" menu in the Esp-r 11.5 on my computer. And there is no "lighting and blind control" in "zone composition" menu, either. So where should I find this function? I tried to click the link of " see on-line tutorial for details", but an error page came out. Why? I want to read this tutorial very much! Has anyone used a similar function before? Thank you very much! -- Best regards! Chunying -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20081209/9f8bb3d9/attachment.html From esprfans at hotmail.com Tue Dec 9 08:09:38 2008 From: esprfans at hotmail.com (Leepaul) Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 16:09:38 +0800 Subject: [esp-r] air flow problem in double-pane window Message-ID: Dear all, I simulate a natural air flow in a double pane window, which has a upper exit and lower entry. I run simulation in Summer typical week, Spring typical week, and Autum typical week, each air flow rate seems ok, then keep anything unchanged, and only run the simulation in the Winter typical week, then the air flow rate is always zero, it's obviously not correct. Does anyone have the similar experience? and what results in this? Thank you. Paul _________________________________________________________________ ?????????????????????????????? http://cnweb.search.live.com/xrank/results.aspx?q=%e5%91%a8%e6%9d%b0%e4%bc%a6&FORM=MSNH -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20081209/07d7902e/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Tue Dec 9 14:06:31 2008 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 14:06:31 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: menu items Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA41309FB2E3FF7@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> It looks like the text on the courseware web page is out of date. Sorry about that. Zone composition is equal to zone definition. Casual gain control is equal to lighting control. Blind control is typically implemented as a change in optical properties within the construction materials menu item (look for transparent layer properties). The on-line tutorial is www.esru.strath.ac.uk and look for courseware. And since some of that is out of date many users go to the publications page and then users manuals and then the ESP-r Cookbook and Exercises for Cookbook. -ESRU ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of chunying li [lichunying83 at gmail.com] Sent: 09 December 2008 03:28 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Re: esp-r Digest, Vol 29, Issue 4 Hello, I want to realize the control of screen according to the lux level in a room. Now on the website of http://www.esru.strath.ac.uk/Courseware/ESP-r/ex_furt_sim.htm I found a similar function of lighting and blind control. In the page, it says " choose "lighting and blind control" from the "zone definition" menu. But there is only a "zone composition" menu instead of "zone definition" menu in the Esp-r 11.5 on my computer. And there is no "lighting and blind control" in "zone composition" menu, either. So where should I find this function? I tried to click the link of " see on-line tutorial for details", but an error page came out. Why? I want to read this tutorial very much! Has anyone used a similar function before? Thank you very much! -- Best regards! Chunying From perhaugaard at yahoo.dk Wed Dec 10 09:01:38 2008 From: perhaugaard at yahoo.dk (Per Haugaard) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 09:01:38 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [esp-r] Compiling ESP-r source code Message-ID: <952752.47818.qm@web26607.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Dear Usergroup, I have installed the pre-compiled binary files with out any problems. In an actual project I need to increase the number of zones to 42 and therefore I have tried to compile the ESP-r source code according to this. During the installation the following warning message 'libxml2 library does not appear to be installed' is showed and the installation is stopped. Refer to the below massage: cd `pwd`/lib; \ ??? make the_libNoH3KReports make[1]: Entering directory `/trunk/src/lib' rm -f TReports_dummy.F ; ln -s `pwd`/../cetc/h3kreports/TReports_dummy.F . ; g77? -I../include -I../shocc -I/usr/local/include -I../cetc/h3kreports -DLIN -DX11??? -fno-automatic -finit-local-zero -c TReports_dummy.F make[1]: g77: Command not found make[1]: *** [TReports_dummy.o] Error 127 make[1]: Leaving directory `/trunk/src/lib' make: *** [disableXML] Error 2 ?----------------------------------------- ?Install: Fatal error. ?Executable disableXML could not be built! ?Installation aborted. I have looked in the synaptic package manager and I have issued apt-get install libxml2 but it is allready installed on the system but does not appear in the /src/include or /usr/local/include folder. Any idea of what has gone wrong in my installation of the source code? Any help is appreciated :) Best regards Per Haugaard ______________________ Per Haugaard, Griffenfeldsgade 33, 2.tv 2200 K?benhavn N Denmark mobil: +45 26 39 06 40 E-mail: perhaugaard at yahoo.dk Tr?nger du til at se det store billede? Kelkoo giver dig gode tilbud p? LCD TV! Se her http://dk.yahoo.com/r/pat/lcd -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20081210/2a1439ca/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Wed Dec 10 09:44:48 2008 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 09:44:48 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Compiling ESP-r source code In-Reply-To: <952752.47818.qm@web26607.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <952752.47818.qm@web26607.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA41309FB2E3FFB@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> A recent question about compiling. Actually there are more issues in the warning message than about XML.... You can get around the XML issue by saying no to the inclusion of XML. There is a line g77: command not found - this is the fortran compiler and nothing is going to happen if it does not find the compiler. What is likely is that: a) your machine is newer and is using the gfortran compiler and a newer version of the gcc compiler collection. Check this via the commands which gcc gcc --version which g77 g77 --version which gfortran gfortran --version Sometimes g77 is really g77-3.4 and gcc is really gcc-3.4 in which case you would install via the command ./Install -d /usr/esru --compiler_version -3.4 If your machine has gfortran and is using a version of gcc greater than 4.0 then check the Install --help messages for the syntax of using version 4 compilers. b) your machine does not have either the g77 or gfortran then you will need to use your package manager to install the compiler. -ESRU ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Per Haugaard [perhaugaard at yahoo.dk] Sent: 10 December 2008 09:01 To: ESP-r_ny; esp-r Cc: Per Haugaard Subject: [esp-r] Compiling ESP-r source code Dear Usergroup, I have installed the pre-compiled binary files with out any problems. In an actual project I need to increase the number of zones to 42 and therefore I have tried to compile the ESP-r source code according to this. During the installation the following warning message 'libxml2 library does not appear to be installed' is showed and the installation is stopped. Refer to the below massage: cd `pwd`/lib; \ make the_libNoH3KReports make[1]: Entering directory `/trunk/src/lib' rm -f TReports_dummy.F ; ln -s `pwd`/../cetc/h3kreports/TReports_dummy.F . ; g77 -I../include -I../shocc -I/usr/local/include -I../cetc/h3kreports -DLIN -DX11 -fno-automatic -finit-local-zero -c TReports_dummy.F make[1]: g77: Command not found make[1]: *** [TReports_dummy.o] Error 127 make[1]: Leaving directory `/trunk/src/lib' make: *** [disableXML] Error 2 ----------------------------------------- Install: Fatal error. Executable disableXML could not be built! Installation aborted. I have looked in the synaptic package manager and I have issued apt-get install libxml2 but it is allready installed on the system but does not appear in the /src/include or /usr/local/include folder. Any idea of what has gone wrong in my installation of the source code? Any help is appreciated :) Best regards Per Haugaard ______________________ Per Haugaard, Griffenfeldsgade 33, 2.tv 2200 K?benhavn N Denmark mobil: +45 26 39 06 40 E-mail: perhaugaard at yahoo.dk ________________________________ Find din nye laptop p? kelkoo.dk. Se de gode tilbud her! From perhaugaard at yahoo.dk Wed Dec 10 09:01:38 2008 From: perhaugaard at yahoo.dk (Per Haugaard) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 09:01:38 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [esp-r] Compiling ESP-r source code Message-ID: <952752.47818.qm@web26607.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Dear Usergroup, I have installed the pre-compiled binary files with out any problems. In an actual project I need to increase the number of zones to 42 and therefore I have tried to compile the ESP-r source code according to this. During the installation the following warning message 'libxml2 library does not appear to be installed' is showed and the installation is stopped. Refer to the below massage: cd `pwd`/lib; \ ??? make the_libNoH3KReports make[1]: Entering directory `/trunk/src/lib' rm -f TReports_dummy.F ; ln -s `pwd`/../cetc/h3kreports/TReports_dummy.F . ; g77? -I../include -I../shocc -I/usr/local/include -I../cetc/h3kreports -DLIN -DX11??? -fno-automatic -finit-local-zero -c TReports_dummy.F make[1]: g77: Command not found make[1]: *** [TReports_dummy.o] Error 127 make[1]: Leaving directory `/trunk/src/lib' make: *** [disableXML] Error 2 ?----------------------------------------- ?Install: Fatal error. ?Executable disableXML could not be built! ?Installation aborted. I have looked in the synaptic package manager and I have issued apt-get install libxml2 but it is allready installed on the system but does not appear in the /src/include or /usr/local/include folder. Any idea of what has gone wrong in my installation of the source code? Any help is appreciated :) Best regards Per Haugaard ______________________ Per Haugaard, Griffenfeldsgade 33, 2.tv 2200 K?benhavn N Denmark mobil: +45 26 39 06 40 E-mail: perhaugaard at yahoo.dk Tr?nger du til at se det store billede? Kelkoo giver dig gode tilbud p? LCD TV! Se her http://dk.yahoo.com/r/pat/lcd -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20081210/2a1439ca/attachment-0001.html From perhaugaard at yahoo.dk Wed Dec 10 13:58:07 2008 From: perhaugaard at yahoo.dk (Per Haugaard) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 13:58:07 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [esp-r] Re: Compiling ESP-r source code In-Reply-To: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA41309FB2E3FFB@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> Message-ID: <779451.68993.qm@web26601.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Hey Jon and the rest of the usergroup., Thank you for your reply to my query. I have a Ubuntu version 8.10 and it seems like it use gcc, g++ and gfortran version 4.3.2. There are no g77 in the package manager. I therefore concluded that I have to install via the command: ./Install -d /opt/esru42 --gcc4 Is it safe to run ESP-r with gcc4 compiler? I can via the install --help see that I should use the gcc3-version because the result obtained with ESP-r binaries build with gcc4 exhibit unexplained differences. How do I on my machine increase the number of zone and keep a high accuracy in the calculations? Can I compile it to gcc3 instead and how do I do that? Any help is appreciated. Best regard Per Haugaard ? ______________________ Per Haugaard, Griffenfeldsgade 33, 2.tv 2200 K?benhavn N Denmark mobil: +45 26 39 06 40 E-mail: perhaugaard at yahoo.dk --- Den ons 10/12/08 skrev Jon Hand : Fra: Jon Hand Emne: [esp-r] Re: Compiling ESP-r source code Til: "perhaugaard at yahoo.dk" , "ESP-r_ny" , "esp-r" Cc: "Jon Hand" Dato: onsdag 10. december 2008 10.44 A recent question about compiling. Actually there are more issues in the warning message than about XML.... You can get around the XML issue by saying no to the inclusion of XML. There is a line g77: command not found - this is the fortran compiler and nothing is going to happen if it does not find the compiler. What is likely is that: a) your machine is newer and is using the gfortran compiler and a newer version of the gcc compiler collection. Check this via the commands which gcc gcc --version which g77 g77 --version which gfortran gfortran --version Sometimes g77 is really g77-3.4 and gcc is really gcc-3.4 in which case you would install via the command ./Install -d /usr/esru --compiler_version -3.4 If your machine has gfortran and is using a version of gcc greater than 4.0 then check the Install --help messages for the syntax of using version 4 compilers. b) your machine does not have either the g77 or gfortran then you will need to use your package manager to install the compiler. -ESRU ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Per Haugaard [perhaugaard at yahoo.dk] Sent: 10 December 2008 09:01 To: ESP-r_ny; esp-r Cc: Per Haugaard Subject: [esp-r] Compiling ESP-r source code Dear Usergroup, I have installed the pre-compiled binary files with out any problems. In an actual project I need to increase the number of zones to 42 and therefore I have tried to compile the ESP-r source code according to this. During the installation the following warning message 'libxml2 library does not appear to be installed' is showed and the installation is stopped. Refer to the below massage: cd `pwd`/lib; \ make the_libNoH3KReports make[1]: Entering directory `/trunk/src/lib' rm -f TReports_dummy.F ; ln -s `pwd`/../cetc/h3kreports/TReports_dummy.F . ; g77 -I../include -I../shocc -I/usr/local/include -I../cetc/h3kreports -DLIN -DX11 -fno-automatic -finit-local-zero -c TReports_dummy.F make[1]: g77: Command not found make[1]: *** [TReports_dummy.o] Error 127 make[1]: Leaving directory `/trunk/src/lib' make: *** [disableXML] Error 2 ----------------------------------------- Install: Fatal error. Executable disableXML could not be built! Installation aborted. I have looked in the synaptic package manager and I have issued apt-get install libxml2 but it is allready installed on the system but does not appear in the /src/include or /usr/local/include folder. Any idea of what has gone wrong in my installation of the source code? Any help is appreciated :) Best regards Per Haugaard ______________________ Per Haugaard, Griffenfeldsgade 33, 2.tv 2200 K?benhavn N Denmark mobil: +45 26 39 06 40 E-mail: perhaugaard at yahoo.dk ________________________________ Find din nye laptop p? kelkoo.dk. Se de gode tilbud her! _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r Find din nye laptop p? kelkoo.dk. Se de gode tilbud her - http://dk.yahoo.com/r/pat/mm -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20081210/69448eb7/attachment-0001.html From Alex.Ferguson at NRCan-RNCan.gc.ca Wed Dec 10 15:38:04 2008 From: Alex.Ferguson at NRCan-RNCan.gc.ca (Ferguson, Alex) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 10:38:04 -0500 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Compiling ESP-r source code References: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA41309FB2E3FFB@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> <779451.68993.qm@web26601.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: We've recently concluded that version 4.1 of the GCC compiler (gcc/g++/gfortran) is actually more robust than GCC 3.4 (gcc/g++/g77). gcc 4.2.X has produced some unexplained floating-point errors in ESP-r code; all of these relate to the plant network. We have not yet tested ESP-r using gcc 4.3.X. Alex Ferguson Sustainable Buildings and Communities (Housing Group) CanmetENERGY Natural Resources Canada P:+1 613 995 3294 F:+1 613 996 9909 Alex.Ferguson at NRCan-RNCan.gc.ca ________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Per Haugaard Sent: December 10, 2008 08:58 To: esp-r; ESP-r_ny Subject: [esp-r] Re: Compiling ESP-r source code Hey Jon and the rest of the usergroup., Thank you for your reply to my query. I have a Ubuntu version 8.10 and it seems like it use gcc, g++ and gfortran version 4.3.2. There are no g77 in the package manager. I therefore concluded that I have to install via the command: ./Install -d /opt/esru42 --gcc4 Is it safe to run ESP-r with gcc4 compiler? I can via the install --help see that I should use the gcc3-version because the result obtained with ESP-r binaries build with gcc4 exhibit unexplained differences. How do I on my machine increase the number of zone and keep a high accuracy in the calculations? Can I compile it to gcc3 instead and how do I do that? Any help is appreciated. Best regard Per Haugaard ______________________ Per Haugaard, Griffenfeldsgade 33, 2.tv 2200 K?benhavn N Denmark mobil: +45 26 39 06 40 E-mail: perhaugaard at yahoo.dk --- Den ons 10/12/08 skrev Jon Hand : Fra: Jon Hand Emne: [esp-r] Re: Compiling ESP-r source code Til: "perhaugaard at yahoo.dk" , "ESP-r_ny" , "esp-r" Cc: "Jon Hand" Dato: onsdag 10. december 2008 10.44 A recent question about compiling. Actually there are more issues in the warning message than about XML.... You can get around the XML issue by saying no to the inclusion of XML. There is a line g77: command not found - this is the fortran compiler and nothing is going to happen if it does not find the compiler. What is likely is that: a) your machine is newer and is using the gfortran compiler and a newer version of the gcc compiler collection. Check this via the commands which gcc gcc --version which g77 g77 --version which gfortran gfortran --version Sometimes g77 is really g77-3.4 and gcc is really gcc-3.4 in which case you would install via the command ./Install -d /usr/esru --compiler_version -3.4 If your machine has gfortran and is using a version of gcc greater than 4.0 then check the Install --help messages for the syntax of using version 4 compilers. b) your machine does not have either the g77 or gfortran then you will need to use your package manager to install the compiler. -ESRU ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Per Haugaard [perhaugaard at yahoo.dk] Sent: 10 December 2008 09:01 To: ESP-r_ny; esp-r Cc: Per Haugaard Subject: [esp-r] Compiling ESP-r source code Dear Usergroup, I have installed the pre-compiled binary files with out any problems. In an actual project I need to increase the number of zones to 42 and therefore I have tried to compile the ESP-r source code according to this. During the installation the following warning message 'libxml2 library does not appear to be installed' is showed and the installation is stopped. Refer to the below massage: cd `pwd`/lib; \ make the_libNoH3KReports make[1]: Entering directory `/trunk/src/lib' rm -f TReports_dummy.F ; ln -s `pwd`/../cetc/h3kreports/TReports_dummy.F . ; g77 -I../include -I../shocc -I/usr/local/include -I../cetc/h3kreports -DLIN -DX11 -fno-automatic -finit-local-zero -c TReports_dummy.F make[1]: g77: Command not found make[1]: *** [TReports_dummy.o] Error 127 make[1]: Leaving directory `/trunk/src/lib' make: *** [disableXML] Error 2 ----------------------------------------- Install: Fatal error. Executable disableXML could not be built! Installation aborted. I have looked in the synaptic package manager and I have issued apt-get install libxml2 but it is allready installed on the system but does not appear in the /src/include or /usr/local/include folder. Any idea of what has gone wrong in my installation of the source code? Any help is appreciated :) Best regards Per Haugaard ______________________ Per Haugaard, Griffenfeldsgade 33, 2.tv 2200 K?benhavn N Denmark mobil: +45 26 39 06 40 E-mail: perhaugaard at yahoo.dk ________________________________ Find din nye laptop p? kelkoo.dk. Se de gode tilbud her! _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r ________________________________ Tr?nger du til at se det store billede? Kelkoo giver dig gode tilbud p? LCD TV ! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20081210/bfdb721d/attachment.html From Alex.Ferguson at NRCan-RNCan.gc.ca Wed Dec 10 15:24:21 2008 From: Alex.Ferguson at NRCan-RNCan.gc.ca (Ferguson, Alex) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 10:24:21 -0500 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Compiling ESP-r source code In-Reply-To: <779451.68993.qm@web26601.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA41309FB2E3FFB@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> <779451.68993.qm@web26601.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: We've recently concluded that version 4.1 of the GCC compiler (gcc/g++/gfortran) is actually more robust than GCC 3.4 (gcc/g++/g77). gcc 4.2.X has produced some unexplained floating-point errors in ESP-r code; all of these relate to the plant network. We have not yet tested ESP-r using gcc 4.3.X. Alex Ferguson Sustainable Buildings and Communities (Housing Group) CanmetENERGY Natural Resources Canada P:+1 613 995 3294 F:+1 613 996 9909 Alex.Ferguson at nrcan.gc.ca ________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Per Haugaard Sent: December 10, 2008 08:58 To: esp-r; ESP-r_ny Subject: [esp-r] Re: Compiling ESP-r source code Hey Jon and the rest of the usergroup., Thank you for your reply to my query. I have a Ubuntu version 8.10 and it seems like it use gcc, g++ and gfortran version 4.3.2. There are no g77 in the package manager. I therefore concluded that I have to install via the command: ./Install -d /opt/esru42 --gcc4 Is it safe to run ESP-r with gcc4 compiler? I can via the install --help see that I should use the gcc3-version because the result obtained with ESP-r binaries build with gcc4 exhibit unexplained differences. How do I on my machine increase the number of zone and keep a high accuracy in the calculations? Can I compile it to gcc3 instead and how do I do that? Any help is appreciated. Best regard Per Haugaard ______________________ Per Haugaard, Griffenfeldsgade 33, 2.tv 2200 K?benhavn N Denmark mobil: +45 26 39 06 40 E-mail: perhaugaard at yahoo.dk --- Den ons 10/12/08 skrev Jon Hand : Fra: Jon Hand Emne: [esp-r] Re: Compiling ESP-r source code Til: "perhaugaard at yahoo.dk" , "ESP-r_ny" , "esp-r" Cc: "Jon Hand" Dato: onsdag 10. december 2008 10.44 A recent question about compiling. Actually there are more issues in the warning message than about XML.... You can get around the XML issue by saying no to the inclusion of XML. There is a line g77: command not found - this is the fortran compiler and nothing is going to happen if it does not find the compiler. What is likely is that: a) your machine is newer and is using the gfortran compiler and a newer version of the gcc compiler collection. Check this via the commands which gcc gcc --version which g77 g77 --version which gfortran gfortran --version Sometimes g77 is really g77-3.4 and gcc is really gcc-3.4 in which case you would install via the command ./Install -d /usr/esru --compiler_version -3.4 If your machine has gfortran and is using a version of gcc greater than 4.0 then check the Install --help messages for the syntax of using version 4 compilers. b) your machine does not have either the g77 or gfortran then you will need to use your package manager to install the compiler. -ESRU ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Per Haugaard [perhaugaard at yahoo.dk] Sent: 10 December 2008 09:01 To: ESP-r_ny; esp-r Cc: Per Haugaard Subject: [esp-r] Compiling ESP-r source code Dear Usergroup, I have installed the pre-compiled binary files with out any problems. In an actual project I need to increase the number of zones to 42 and therefore I have tried to compile the ESP-r source code according to this. During the installation the following warning message 'libxml2 library does not appear to be installed' is showed and the installation is stopped. Refer to the below massage: cd `pwd`/lib; \ make the_libNoH3KReports make[1]: Entering directory `/trunk/src/lib' rm -f TReports_dummy.F ; ln -s `pwd`/../cetc/h3kreports/TReports_dummy.F . ; g77 -I../include -I../shocc -I/usr/local/include -I../cetc/h3kreports -DLIN -DX11 -fno-automatic -finit-local-zero -c TReports_dummy.F make[1]: g77: Command not found make[1]: *** [TReports_dummy.o] Error 127 make[1]: Leaving directory `/trunk/src/lib' make: *** [disableXML] Error 2 ----------------------------------------- Install: Fatal error. Executable disableXML could not be built! Installation aborted. I have looked in the synaptic package manager and I have issued apt-get install libxml2 but it is allready installed on the system but does not appear in the /src/include or /usr/local/include folder. Any idea of what has gone wrong in my installation of the source code? Any help is appreciated :) Best regards Per Haugaard ______________________ Per Haugaard, Griffenfeldsgade 33, 2.tv 2200 K?benhavn N Denmark mobil: +45 26 39 06 40 E-mail: perhaugaard at yahoo.dk ________________________________ Find din nye laptop p? kelkoo.dk. Se de gode tilbud her! _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r ________________________________ Tr?nger du til at se det store billede? Kelkoo giver dig gode tilbud p? LCD TV ! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20081210/5a663c93/attachment-0001.html From perhaugaard at yahoo.dk Wed Dec 10 13:58:07 2008 From: perhaugaard at yahoo.dk (Per Haugaard) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 13:58:07 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [esp-r] Re: Compiling ESP-r source code In-Reply-To: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA41309FB2E3FFB@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> Message-ID: <779451.68993.qm@web26601.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Hey Jon and the rest of the usergroup., Thank you for your reply to my query. I have a Ubuntu version 8.10 and it seems like it use gcc, g++ and gfortran version 4.3.2. There are no g77 in the package manager. I therefore concluded that I have to install via the command: ./Install -d /opt/esru42 --gcc4 Is it safe to run ESP-r with gcc4 compiler? I can via the install --help see that I should use the gcc3-version because the result obtained with ESP-r binaries build with gcc4 exhibit unexplained differences. How do I on my machine increase the number of zone and keep a high accuracy in the calculations? Can I compile it to gcc3 instead and how do I do that? Any help is appreciated. Best regard Per Haugaard ? ______________________ Per Haugaard, Griffenfeldsgade 33, 2.tv 2200 K?benhavn N Denmark mobil: +45 26 39 06 40 E-mail: perhaugaard at yahoo.dk --- Den ons 10/12/08 skrev Jon Hand : Fra: Jon Hand Emne: [esp-r] Re: Compiling ESP-r source code Til: "perhaugaard at yahoo.dk" , "ESP-r_ny" , "esp-r" Cc: "Jon Hand" Dato: onsdag 10. december 2008 10.44 A recent question about compiling. Actually there are more issues in the warning message than about XML.... You can get around the XML issue by saying no to the inclusion of XML. There is a line g77: command not found - this is the fortran compiler and nothing is going to happen if it does not find the compiler. What is likely is that: a) your machine is newer and is using the gfortran compiler and a newer version of the gcc compiler collection. Check this via the commands which gcc gcc --version which g77 g77 --version which gfortran gfortran --version Sometimes g77 is really g77-3.4 and gcc is really gcc-3.4 in which case you would install via the command ./Install -d /usr/esru --compiler_version -3.4 If your machine has gfortran and is using a version of gcc greater than 4.0 then check the Install --help messages for the syntax of using version 4 compilers. b) your machine does not have either the g77 or gfortran then you will need to use your package manager to install the compiler. -ESRU ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Per Haugaard [perhaugaard at yahoo.dk] Sent: 10 December 2008 09:01 To: ESP-r_ny; esp-r Cc: Per Haugaard Subject: [esp-r] Compiling ESP-r source code Dear Usergroup, I have installed the pre-compiled binary files with out any problems. In an actual project I need to increase the number of zones to 42 and therefore I have tried to compile the ESP-r source code according to this. During the installation the following warning message 'libxml2 library does not appear to be installed' is showed and the installation is stopped. Refer to the below massage: cd `pwd`/lib; \ make the_libNoH3KReports make[1]: Entering directory `/trunk/src/lib' rm -f TReports_dummy.F ; ln -s `pwd`/../cetc/h3kreports/TReports_dummy.F . ; g77 -I../include -I../shocc -I/usr/local/include -I../cetc/h3kreports -DLIN -DX11 -fno-automatic -finit-local-zero -c TReports_dummy.F make[1]: g77: Command not found make[1]: *** [TReports_dummy.o] Error 127 make[1]: Leaving directory `/trunk/src/lib' make: *** [disableXML] Error 2 ----------------------------------------- Install: Fatal error. Executable disableXML could not be built! Installation aborted. I have looked in the synaptic package manager and I have issued apt-get install libxml2 but it is allready installed on the system but does not appear in the /src/include or /usr/local/include folder. Any idea of what has gone wrong in my installation of the source code? Any help is appreciated :) Best regards Per Haugaard ______________________ Per Haugaard, Griffenfeldsgade 33, 2.tv 2200 K?benhavn N Denmark mobil: +45 26 39 06 40 E-mail: perhaugaard at yahoo.dk ________________________________ Find din nye laptop p? kelkoo.dk. Se de gode tilbud her! _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r Find din nye laptop p? kelkoo.dk. Se de gode tilbud her - http://dk.yahoo.com/r/pat/mm -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20081210/69448eb7/attachment-0002.html From dave at howorth.org.uk Wed Dec 10 22:10:37 2008 From: dave at howorth.org.uk (Dave Howorth) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 22:10:37 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Compiling ESP-r source code In-Reply-To: <952752.47818.qm@web26607.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <952752.47818.qm@web26607.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1228947037.5877.91.camel@piglet.howorth.org.uk> On Wed, 2008-12-10 at 09:01 +0000, Per Haugaard wrote: Per, off the top of my head it looks like you're missing the development package for libxml2. You have the binary installed but probably not the header files necessary to compile applications. There's probably a package called libxml2-devel or something that you need to install. Cheers, Dave From perhaugaard at yahoo.dk Thu Dec 11 08:44:37 2008 From: perhaugaard at yahoo.dk (Per Haugaard) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 08:44:37 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [esp-r] Re: Compiling ESP-r source code In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <844412.80383.qm@web26606.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Dear Axel and list users, Thank you for you input on my question. Is is possible to both have gcc 4.1 (gcc/g++/g77) and gcc 4.3.X (gcc/g++/g77) installed on Ubuntu so that the compiler (./Install -d /opt/esru42 --gcc4) and esp-r only uses gcc 4.1(gcc/g++/g77) while Ubuntu and other programmes who needs gcc 4.3.X can use that version. Any surgestions on how do this or does anyone have any other surgestions on how to compile a usable and stable ESP-r with 42 zones with the described gcc-version probems? Any help is appreciatet. Best regards Per ______________________ Per Haugaard, Griffenfeldsgade 33, 2.tv 2200 K?benhavn N Denmark mobil: +45 26 39 06 40 E-mail: perhaugaard at yahoo.dk --- Den ons 10/12/08 skrev Ferguson, Alex : Fra: Ferguson, Alex Emne: RE: [esp-r] Re: Compiling ESP-r source code Til: perhaugaard at yahoo.dk, "ESP-r_ny" Dato: onsdag 10. december 2008 16.24 We've recently concluded that version 4.1 of the GCC compiler (gcc/g++/gfortran)?is actually more robust than GCC 3.4 (gcc/g++/g77). gcc 4.2.X has produced some unexplained floating-point errors in ESP-r code; all of these relate to the plant network. We have not yet tested ESP-r using gcc 4.3.X. ? Alex Ferguson Sustainable Buildings and Communities (Housing Group) CanmetENERGY Natural Resources Canada P:+1 613 995 3294 F:+1 613 996 9909 Alex.Ferguson at nrcan.gc.ca ? From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Per Haugaard Sent: December 10, 2008 08:58 To: esp-r; ESP-r_ny Subject: [esp-r] Re: Compiling ESP-r source code Hey Jon and the rest of the usergroup., Thank you for your reply to my query. I have a Ubuntu version 8.10 and it seems like it use gcc, g++ and gfortran version 4.3.2. There are no g77 in the package manager. I therefore concluded that I have to install via the command: ./Install -d /opt/esru42 --gcc4 Is it safe to run ESP-r with gcc4 compiler? I can via the install --help see that I should use the gcc3-version because the result obtained with ESP-r binaries build with gcc4 exhibit unexplained differences. How do I on my machine increase the number of zone and keep a high accuracy in the calculations? Can I compile it to gcc3 instead and how do I do that? Any help is appreciated. Best regard Per Haugaard ? ______________________ Per Haugaard, Griffenfeldsgade 33, 2.tv 2200 K?benhavn N Denmark mobil: +45 26 39 06 40 E-mail: perhaugaard at yahoo.dk --- Den ons 10/12/08 skrev Jon Hand : Fra: Jon Hand Emne: [esp-r] Re: Compiling ESP-r source code Til: "perhaugaard at yahoo.dk" , "ESP-r_ny" , "esp-r" Cc: "Jon Hand" Dato: onsdag 10. december 2008 10.44 A recent question about compiling. Actually there are more issues in the warning message than about XML.... You can get around the XML issue by saying no to the inclusion of XML. There is a line g77: command not found - this is the fortran compiler and nothing is going to happen if it does not find the compiler. What is likely is that: a) your machine is newer and is using the gfortran compiler and a newer version of the gcc compiler collection. Check this via the commands which gcc gcc --version which g77 g77 --version which gfortran gfortran --version Sometimes g77 is really g77-3.4 and gcc is really gcc-3.4 in which case you would install via the command ./Install -d /usr/esru --compiler_version -3.4 If your machine has gfortran and is using a version of gcc greater than 4.0 then check the Install --help messages for the syntax of using version 4 compilers. b) your machine does not have either the g77 or gfortran then you will need to use your package manager to install the compiler. -ESRU ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Per Haugaard [perhaugaard at yahoo.dk] Sent: 10 December 2008 09:01 To: ESP-r_ny; esp-r Cc: Per Haugaard Subject: [esp-r] Compiling ESP-r source code Dear Usergroup, I have installed the pre-compiled binary files with out any problems. In an actual project I need to increase the number of zones to 42 and therefore I have tried to compile the ESP-r source code according to this. During the installation the following warning message 'libxml2 library does not appear to be installed' is showed and the installation is stopped. Refer to the below massage: cd `pwd`/lib; \ make the_libNoH3KReports make[1]: Entering directory `/trunk/src/lib' rm -f TReports_dummy.F ; ln -s `pwd`/../cetc/h3kreports/TReports_dummy.F . ; g77 -I../include -I../shocc -I/usr/local/include -I../cetc/h3kreports -DLIN -DX11 -fno-automatic -finit-local-zero -c TReports_dummy.F make[1]: g77: Command not found make[1]: *** [TReports_dummy.o] Error 127 make[1]: Leaving directory `/trunk/src/lib' make: *** [disableXML] Error 2 ----------------------------------------- Install: Fatal error. Executable disableXML could not be built! Installation aborted. I have looked in the synaptic package manager and I have issued apt-get install libxml2 but it is allready installed on the system but does not appear in the /src/include or /usr/local/include folder. Any idea of what has gone wrong in my installation of the source code? Any help is appreciated :) Best regards Per Haugaard ______________________ Per Haugaard, Griffenfeldsgade 33, 2.tv 2200 K?benhavn N Denmark mobil: +45 26 39 06 40 E-mail: perhaugaard at yahoo.dk ________________________________ Find din nye laptop p? kelkoo.dk. Se de gode tilbud her! _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r Tr?nger du til at se det store billede? Kelkoo giver dig gode tilbud p? LCD TV! ___________________________________________________________ Skal du k?be ny bil? Sammenlign priser p? brugte biler med Kelkoo og find et godt tilbud! - Se mere her http://dk.yahoo.com/r/pat/mmb -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20081211/471eb13f/attachment.html From leen.peeters at mech.kuleuven.be Mon Dec 15 12:01:04 2008 From: leen.peeters at mech.kuleuven.be (Leen Peeters) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 13:01:04 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] ribber outer wall Message-ID: <002701c95eac$ce7a57c0$f3ad210a@mech.kuleuven.be> Dear all, how can a ribbled outer wall be modelled? We have a student project where the volumes to be modelled are regular containers used for bulk transport on boats. These have ribbled outer walls... thanks for any suggestions! Leen Peeters University of Leuven Postbox: 02421 APPLIED MECHANICS AND ENERGY CONVERSION office number 02.050 Celestijnenlaan 300A 3001 Heverlee Belgium Phone +32-16-322.518 Disclaimer: http://www.kuleuven.be/cwis/email_disclaimer.htm -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20081215/a3241bd0/attachment.html From lswan at dal.ca Mon Dec 15 15:33:26 2008 From: lswan at dal.ca (Lukas Swan (Dal)) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 11:33:26 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Compiling ESP-r source code In-Reply-To: References: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA41309FB2E3FFB@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> <779451.68993.qm@web26601.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <004601c95eca$7c548b50$74fda1f0$@ca> Hi The package manager in Ubuntu 8.04 does have all the versions of these compilers. To get them in Ubuntu 8.10 (Intrepid) you will need to add the hardy packages to your repository list. I added this to the end of the file /etc/apt/source.list (replace ?ca? with your country) deb http://ca.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ hardy main restricted universe multiverse deb-src http://ca.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ hardy main restricted universe multiverse deb http://ca.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ hardy-updates main restricted universe multiverse deb-src http://ca.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ hardy-updates main restricted universe multiverse deb http://ca.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ hardy-backports main restricted universe multiverse deb-src http://ca.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ hardy-backports main restricted universe multiverse deb http://ca.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ hardy-updates main restricted universe multiverse deb-src http://ca.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ hardy-updates main restricted universe multiverse Install gfortran-4.1 first (sudo aptitude install gfortran-4.1) Then install gcc-4.1 and g++-4.1. You will find this will cause an issue as it defaults to the intrepid versions. Deny the first solution and accept the second (I think). You will also find you need to install ?libx11-dev? and if you want to use XML ?libxml2? and ?libxml2-dev? ---- I just had a peak in the esp-r src/Readme file and it does say that version 4.1 is recommended. As nearly all new distributions are past version 4.1 (I think), perhaps a note should be included in the readme that the use of 4.1 also requires: --compiler_version -4.1, and that the argument --gcc4 be passed, which it seems simply trades g77 for gfortran? If this is not declared, make looks for g77-4.1, which does not exist. This information could simply go in the ?Compilers? section of the Readme. ---- I do recall some unexplained floating point errors with 4.1 which were of concern for the last year. Have these been resolved? Lukas Swan Dalhousie Univ Canada From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Ferguson, Alex Sent: December-10-08 11:38 AM To: ESP-r_ny Subject: [esp-r] Re: Compiling ESP-r source code We've recently concluded that version 4.1 of the GCC compiler (gcc/g++/gfortran) is actually more robust than GCC 3.4 (gcc/g++/g77). gcc 4.2.X has produced some unexplained floating-point errors in ESP-r code; all of these relate to the plant network. We have not yet tested ESP-r using gcc 4.3.X. Alex Ferguson Sustainable Buildings and Communities (Housing Group) CanmetENERGY Natural Resources Canada P:+1 613 995 3294 F:+1 613 996 9909 Alex.Ferguson at NRCan-RNCan.gc.ca _____ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Per Haugaard Sent: December 10, 2008 08:58 To: esp-r; ESP-r_ny Subject: [esp-r] Re: Compiling ESP-r source code Hey Jon and the rest of the usergroup., Thank you for your reply to my query. I have a Ubuntu version 8.10 and it seems like it use gcc, g++ and gfortran version 4.3.2. There are no g77 in the package manager. I therefore concluded that I have to install via the command: ./Install -d /opt/esru42 --gcc4 Is it safe to run ESP-r with gcc4 compiler? I can via the install --help see that I should use the gcc3-version because the result obtained with ESP-r binaries build with gcc4 exhibit unexplained differences. How do I on my machine increase the number of zone and keep a high accuracy in the calculations? Can I compile it to gcc3 instead and how do I do that? Any help is appreciated. Best regard Per Haugaard ______________________ Per Haugaard, Griffenfeldsgade 33, 2.tv 2200 K?benhavn N Denmark mobil: +45 26 39 06 40 E-mail: perhaugaard at yahoo.dk --- Den ons 10/12/08 skrev Jon Hand : Fra: Jon Hand Emne: [esp-r] Re: Compiling ESP-r source code Til: "perhaugaard at yahoo.dk" , "ESP-r_ny" , "esp-r" Cc: "Jon Hand" Dato: onsdag 10. december 2008 10.44 A recent question about compiling. Actually there are more issues in the warning message than about XML.... You can get around the XML issue by saying no to the inclusion of XML. There is a line g77: command not found - this is the fortran compiler and nothing is going to happen if it does not find the compiler. What is likely is that: a) your machine is newer and is using the gfortran compiler and a newer version of the gcc compiler collection. Check this via the commands which gcc gcc --version which g77 g77 --version which gfortran gfortran --version Sometimes g77 is really g77-3.4 and gcc is really gcc-3.4 in which case you would install via the command ./Install -d /usr/esru --compiler_version -3.4 If your machine has gfortran and is using a version of gcc greater than 4.0 then check the Install --help messages for the syntax of using version 4 compilers. b) your machine does not have either the g77 or gfortran then you will need to use your package manager to install the compiler. -ESRU ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Per Haugaard [perhaugaard at yahoo.dk] Sent: 10 December 2008 09:01 To: ESP-r_ny; esp-r Cc: Per Haugaard Subject: [esp-r] Compiling ESP-r source code Dear Usergroup, I have installed the pre-compiled binary files with out any problems. In an actual project I need to increase the number of zones to 42 and therefore I have tried to compile the ESP-r source code according to this. During the installation the following warning message 'libxml2 library does not appear to be installed' is showed and the installation is stopped. Refer to the below massage: cd `pwd`/lib; \ make the_libNoH3KReports make[1]: Entering directory `/trunk/src/lib' rm -f TReports_dummy.F ; ln -s `pwd`/../cetc/h3kreports/TReports_dummy.F . ; g77 -I../include -I../shocc -I/usr/local/include -I../cetc/h3kreports -DLIN -DX11 -fno-automatic -finit-local-zero -c TReports_dummy.F make[1]: g77: Command not found make[1]: *** [TReports_dummy.o] Error 127 make[1]: Leaving directory `/trunk/src/lib' make: *** [disableXML] Error 2 ----------------------------------------- Install: Fatal error. Executable disableXML could not be built! Installation aborted. I have looked in the synaptic package manager and I have issued apt-get install libxml2 but it is allready installed on the system but does not appear in the /src/include or /usr/local/include folder. Any idea of what has gone wrong in my installation of the source code? Any help is appreciated :) Best regards Per Haugaard ______________________ Per Haugaard, Griffenfeldsgade 33, 2.tv 2200 K?benhavn N Denmark mobil: +45 26 39 06 40 E-mail: perhaugaard at yahoo.dk ________________________________ Find din nye laptop p? kelkoo.dk. Se de gode tilbud her! _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r _____ Tr?nger du til at se det store billede? Kelkoo giver dig gode tilbud p? LCD TV ! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20081215/84c8f57d/attachment-0001.html From Alex.Ferguson at NRCan-RNCan.gc.ca Mon Dec 15 16:53:06 2008 From: Alex.Ferguson at NRCan-RNCan.gc.ca (Ferguson, Alex) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 11:53:06 -0500 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Compiling ESP-r source code In-Reply-To: <004601c95eca$7c548b50$74fda1f0$@ca> References: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA41309FB2E3FFB@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk><779451.68993.qm@web26601.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <004601c95eca$7c548b50$74fda1f0$@ca> Message-ID: I just had a peak in the esp-r src/Readme file and it does say that version 4.1 is recommended. As nearly all new distributions are past version 4.1 (I think), perhaps a note should be included in the readme that the use of 4.1 also requires: --compiler_version -4.1, and that the argument --gcc4 be passed, which it seems simply trades g77 for gfortran? If this is not declared, make looks for g77-4.1, which does not exist. This information could simply go in the "Compilers" section of the Readme. These are good suggestions. I will try to fold them into development branch in the comming weeks. Perhaps the install script should default to gcc4, and provide the --gcc3 option for backwards compatability? I might even add functions to query the gcc version number and issue warnings (and possibly enable floating-point exception handling) for gcc4.2+ systems. ---- I do recall some unexplained floating point errors with 4.1 which were of concern for the last year. Have these been resolved? Yes. We found numerous numerical exceptions and other dubious code that introduced all sorts of headaches on the gcc 4.1 and intel toolsets. We've remedied these, and the gcc 4.1, Sun and Intel compilers now agree well throughout the ESP-r test suite. gcc4.2+ compiled-versions still exhibit some instabilities. Detailed results from our last round of testing follow. In the future, I'll circulate these test results more broadly. - Alex ====================== SUMMARY: ====================== - ESP-r compiles correctly on Linux, Cygwin, MinGW, Solaris and OSX. - Portability testing suggests that GCC 4.1.2 builds are actually more reliable than GCC3 builds. - GCC 4.2.3 builds are not as robust. - Some uncertainty remains in Intel builds, as well as builds on OSX. Recommendations: - Proceed with release. - The ESP-r 'reference' platform should be changed from Linux / GCC 3.4.6 to Linux / GCC 4.1.2 - Cygwin / GCC 3.4.6 and SUN CC builds should continue to be designated as stable - GCC 4.2+ and Intel builds should be used with caution. - Compiler optimization should be used with caution. - OSX / GCC 3.4.6 and MinGW / GCC 3.4.6 builds should be used with caution. Detailed results follow. ====================== Static Analysis: ====================== The Forcheck static analyzer warns of no additional coding errors in the current version of pre-release-patches. The total number of errors, warnings and informational numbers as declined from the last release. ====================== Regression testing: ====================== Changes since the last revision have introduced significant numerical differences into the results. But for the first time, all the numerical differences were anticipated by developers, and no unintended effects were observed during testing. Two revisions introduced numerical differences in to the results: r2838: This commit patched a long-standing bug in the water tank storage model. Predicted water temperatures in the plant network may differ by as much as 3oC; predicted casual gains in the space may differ by as much as 3W. r3088: This commit corrected an error in the application of relaxation to the plant network solution scheme. Predicted heat transfer in the plant may differ by as much as 400W (1%), predicted temperatures in the plant may differ by as much as 18oC in extreme cases. ====================== Portability testing: ====================== The release candidate can be successfully installed on the following platform, compiler and graphics library combinations. We've also added support for the Intel compiler suite on linux. Jon Hand has been experimenting with support for 64-bit architecture, but this work has not yet been generalized for inclusion in the public release. We've successfully installed ESP-r using the following 32-bit platform, compiler and graphics library combinations: Support for ESP-r on various compiler, platform and graphics library combinations. ============================================================= Compiler Library Linux Cygwin MinGW Sun OSX ============================================================= GCC 3.4.X X11 O O SUN CC X11 O GCC 3.4.4 X11 O noX O GCC 3.4.5 noX * GCC 3.4.6 X11 O GTK O noX O INTEL noX O X11 O GTK O GCC 4.1.2 X11 O GCC 4.2.3 X11 O ------------------------------------------------------------- Notes: O: Installs correctly. *: MinGW only installs correctly to absolute DOS paths (i.e. C:/ESRU) ============================================================= We've also undertaken a comprehensive comparison of the numerical results produced by ESP-r on various platforms. Previously, these comparisons were limited to various versions of the GCC compiler suite on Linux and cygwin. Since the last release, Jon Hand has worked to add support for XML-enabled builds on OSX and Solaris, using both the GCC and Sun compiler suites. Along with new support for the Intel compiler, these new capabilities add important reference points for our ongoing evaluation of GCC4/gFortran For the last few years, we've designated GCC 3.4.6/Linux builds as the reference version of ESP-r. Most ESP-r development and automated testing is based on this platform, and bps's numerical predictions on this platform receive scrutiny than any other. GCC 3's fortran 77 compiler (g77) has been obsoleted by gFortran, a fortran 90 compiler released with GCC 4. Results differ somewhat between g77 and gFortran builds, and we've been wondering if they're caused by bugs in g77 or gFortran, or perhaps poor ESP-r code that one of the compilers is more sensitive to. For the first time, we have additional reference points (Intel and Sun CC/f90) to perform these comparisons with. The following chart summarizes the significant observed differences between the and other platform and compiler combinations. The "Maximum difference" reflects the maximum observed difference observed in the test cases, excluding exceptional test cases that are discussed in section 'Problematic test cases', below.. Comparison of results from GCC4.1.2-compiled versions (X11, Linux) with builds from other platform/compilers. ============================================================= Arch. Platform Compiler Maximum difference (%) ------------------------------------------------------------- IA-32 CYGWIN GCC 3.4.4 3.18 LINUX GCC 3.4.6 3.18 GCC 4.2.3 0. (^1) Intel -O0 0.75 (^2) Intel -O2 38.781 PowerPC OSX GCC 3.4 16.1 Sparc SOLARIS Sun CC/f90 1.80 ------------------------------------------------------------- NOTES: 1. Some test cases produced numerical exceptions and floating point errors. See "Problematic Test Cases". 2. One test case produced a larger error (~13%). See below. ============================================================= Detailed scrutiny of the results revealed: - gFortran vs Intel iFort / SUN f90 --------------------------------- With optimization disabled, the results from SUN and Intel compilers consistently agree more closely with GCC 4.1.2 / gFortran than they do with GCC 3.4.6 / g77. These results suggest GCC 4.1.2 can be used with confidence, and indeed, should be recommended in place of g77. - Stability of gFortran --------------------- GCC 4.2.3 builds encounter numerical exceptions in a handful of test cases that ran correctly in all other compilers (See "problematic test cases", below). I recommend GCC 4.2+ builds be regarded as 'beta' until this issue is resolved. - Intel iFort results: effect of optimization ------------------------------------------- With optimization deactivated, the Intel compiler consistently produced results close to the gFortran and Sun f90 builds. But When the default optimization is activated (using the -O2) option, agreement between the Intel and GCC 4.1.2 compiler deteriorates considerably. Nearly all of the models exhibit small, non-trace differences, and in every case these differences were slightly, or significantly larger than those observed with optimization deactivated. Its possible this error is due to bugs in Intel's optimization algorithm, but poor code in ESP-r is more likely the culprit. For instance, when -O0 is specified, the compiler ensures that arguement mismatches in procedure calls are properly converted, but does not perform these conversions by default. This problem might occur in GCC builds as well. By default, GCC uses no optimization. I suspect similar issues might appear if -O2 is specified for g77/gFortran builds. For these reasons, application of optimization options with ESP-r is not presently recommended. - Intel iFort results: test case bld_hc_ISO15099 /HC -------------------------------------------------- Newly added for this release, this test case continues to cause headaches. Intel-compiled versions of bps exhibit significant differences from g77/gFortran builds: - MAX error (W) 199.37 W ( 13.293 %) - Predicted value - g77 1499.8 W Intel 1300.4 W [ observed in: building:zone_05:thermal_loads:net_load:month_01 (max) ] The corresponding test case that does not activate the ISO15099 correlation does not exhibit the same error, suggesting the Intel compiler is exposing a sensitive compoment of the ISO15099 algorithm, or vice-versa. The SUN CC/f90 results we have do not include this test case, precluding assessment of whether the g77/gFortran or Intel predictions are more accurate. For this reason, the Intel compiler suite is only recommended for beta testing for the time being. - OSX / GCC builds ---------------- A handful of test cases exhibited suprising sensitivity when run with GCC 3.4 compiled builds on OSX. The cause of these differences is not known; OSX builds should be used with caution for the time being. =========================== Problematic test cases =========================== - esru_benchmark_model / bld_basic_af2_summer / bld_basic_af2_winter ------------------------------------------- We've previously observed the that this coarse-timestep air flow network test case produces significant differences in g77 and gFortran builds. The long, half-hour timesteps cause small differences in the numerical computations to be exaggerated in the aggregated output --- increasing time resolution vastly improves agreement between the compilers. The Linux / Intel, Solaris / SUN CC-f90, and OSX / g77 platforms all exhibit the same sensitivity. They produce differing results at short-timesteps, but agreement with Linux / g77 improves at higher time-resolutions. Since we've observed that each compiler combination produces dissimilar results and that the high-resolution version is more useful, this test case has little value. For this reason, I recommend we delete it. - plt_boundary_conditions / connected_flow connected_temperature unconnected_controls unconnected_flow unconnected_temperature ------------------------------------------------- While they run correctly in every other compiler (including GCC 4.1.2), these test cases produce undiagnosed numerical exceptions in GCC 4.2.3. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20081215/f6e0ee40/attachment-0001.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Tue Dec 16 14:09:35 2008 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 14:09:35 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: ribber outer wall In-Reply-To: <002701c95eac$ce7a57c0$f3ad210a@mech.kuleuven.be> References: <002701c95eac$ce7a57c0$f3ad210a@mech.kuleuven.be> Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA41309FB2E4027@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> A question about walls that are ribbed... ::how can a ribbled outer wall be modelled? We have a student project where the volumes to be modelled are regular ::containers used for bulk transport on boats. These have ribbled outer walls... If the wall has a constant thickness (even though the shape is complex) then the nature of the wall is a) some % of the surface area is parallel with the length of the container and other portions are at an angle (so solar radiation and convection might differ at different facets of the wall. b) the overall surface area is much greater than a flat surface. One technique would be to take a literal approach - create the container out of LOTS of surfaces. This allows issues a & b to be dealt with explicitly. Essentially there are a few polygon shapes that need to be created and then the use of copy and transform can be used to gradually build up the container. Plan carefully - each zone can only have 62 surfaces so there will need to be several zones. The second technique is to be slightly abstract. Lump several ribs together so that the orientations and surface area are correct but there are fewer ribs. A third technique is to use a 2D conduction application to model the walls as an extrusion and then compose one or more constructions to represent the heat transfer characteristics of such a wall. If the wall has a non-constant thickness - say if there is an inner flat plate for a floor then this probably requires two types of constructions - one to represent those parts where the air gap between the floor and the rib is deep and one where the air gap is shallow. Such approaches are approximations because the problem is really 3D rather than 1D. -Jon Hand From aizaz.a.samuel at strath.ac.uk Fri Dec 19 13:54:04 2008 From: aizaz.a.samuel at strath.ac.uk (Aizaz Samuel) Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 13:54:04 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Linkage between Plant Network and Fluid Flow Network Message-ID: <200812191354.04865.aizaz.a.samuel@strath.ac.uk> Pedro, You need to link flow networks with plant. This is done from the option "h link to fluid flow network" in the main plant network menu. When you do link a fluid flow network you will have to link connections on the plant side with connections on the flow side. It is permissible to have unlinked connections on the flow side but not on the plant side. Once linked the flows from flow network will override any statically defined flows on the plant side. As far as I know there is a slight problem in plant file writing when linked with flow network. I have addressed this in my branch but do not think this has been taken up in the main esp-r source code yet. In any case there is an exemplar that you could refer to. If you choose exemplar > systems+network fluid flow > multi zone VAV system, you should be able to get it. It might be useful to compare the plant network files from your model with this model if you get a problem. Regards, Aizaz ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Subject: FW: [esp-r] Linkage between Plant Network and Fluid Flow Network Date: Friday 19 December 2008 13:36 From: Jon Hand To: Aizaz Samuel this is the outstanding question that I noticed. -Jon ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Pedro Gon?alves [goncalvespedro at hotmail.com] Sent: 06 December 2008 21:52 To: esp- r mailing Subject: [esp-r] Linkage between Plant Network and Fluid Flow Network Dear All, When we are setting up a plant network and a fluid flow network separetely, we could define, p.e. a fan with diferents flows for both networks. But after the linkage between them we shoud have the same flow for boths - I think. Makes sense! But how could we certify this? Thank for your attention in advance, Best regards PG ________________________________ Not?cias direto do New York Times, gols do Lance, videocassetadas e muitos outros v?deos no MSN Videos! Confira j?! ------------------------------------------------------- -------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: ATT00001.txt Url: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20081219/7e27e8ac/attachment.txt From paul at esru.strath.ac.uk Fri Dec 19 18:08:25 2008 From: paul at esru.strath.ac.uk (Paul Strachan) Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 18:08:25 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] ESP-r release 11.6 Message-ID: <494BE319.50607@esru.strath.ac.uk> Executables for various platforms are available on the ESRU website: www.esru.strath.ac.uk/Downloads/downloads.htm Regards Paul From clh134 at prodigy.net.mx Tue Dec 23 00:12:01 2008 From: clh134 at prodigy.net.mx (clh134) Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 18:12:01 -0600 Subject: [esp-r] Broken links Message-ID: There are at least a couple of broken links on http://www.esru.strath.ac.uk/Downloads/downloads.htm These are: http://www.esru.strath.ac.uk/Downloads/ESP-r_OSX_binaries/helper-binaries/nedit and: http://www.esru.strath.ac.uk/Downloads/ESP-r_OSX_binaries/helper-binaries/xv and also: http://www.esru.strath.ac.uk/Downloads/ESP-r_OSX_binaries/setting_up_osx.txt Christopher Heard Mexico City From esprfans at hotmail.com Sat Dec 27 02:06:02 2008 From: esprfans at hotmail.com (Leepaul) Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 10:06:02 +0800 Subject: [esp-r] effect of longitude and latitude on the PV window power output? Message-ID: Dear all, what is the effect of longitude and latitude on power output of the vertical PV windows toward the west. for example, I'm simulating the vertical PV window toward the west located at London, fisrtly I get a power output from the original weather file, then keep anything of London weather file unchanged but change London' longitude, then what will happen for power output? regards, paul _________________________________________________________________ ???????????????????? http://ditu.live.com/?form=MRAHAB&rtp=pos.30.454167_116.308611_%E5%A4%AA%E6%B9%96__~pos.29.554046_115.983427_%E5%BA%90%E5%B1%B1__~pos.29.116111_110.478889_%E5%BC%A0%E5%AE%B6%E7%95%8C__&rtop=0~0~0&encType=1 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20081227/1fc39937/attachment.html From esprfans at hotmail.com Sun Dec 28 13:33:36 2008 From: esprfans at hotmail.com (Leepaul) Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 21:33:36 +0800 Subject: [esp-r] what is the defination of the site's longitude? Message-ID: Dear all, I downloaded a weather file from ENERGY+ website, and transfered it as the binary file ESP-r needs. when I opened that binary weather file with ESP-r, and tried to output the "integration radiation" data, the esp-r reminded me"the longitude difference is more than +-15 degree", I noted that the site data of my downloaed file are: longitude -32.8, and somwhere is 32.8W. So what does "longitude -32.8, or 32.8W" mean? and why computer tell me"the longitude difference is more than +-15 degree"? thank you for your answer. kind regards, Paul _________________________________________________________________ ???????????????????? http://ditu.live.com/?form=MRAHAB&rtp=pos.30.454167_116.308611_%E5%A4%AA%E6%B9%96__~pos.29.554046_115.983427_%E5%BA%90%E5%B1%B1__~pos.29.116111_110.478889_%E5%BC%A0%E5%AE%B6%E7%95%8C__&rtop=0~0~0&encType=1 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20081228/d3bb309d/attachment.html From yook at dasskorea.com.test-google-a.com Mon Dec 29 02:57:19 2008 From: yook at dasskorea.com.test-google-a.com (=?EUC-KR?B?wLDAzrz2?=) Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 11:57:19 +0900 Subject: [esp-r] Re: what is the defination of the site's longitude? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear Paul I experienced similar error concerning this longitude difference. In ESP-r, longitude difference means 'the difference measured from standard time meridian.' For example, in Seoul Korea, the longitude is approximately 126.5. But the Standard Time is based on Tokyo, Japan where the longitude is 135. Therefore, there is longitude difference 135-126.5=8.5W When the longitude difference is calculated to West direction from the Standard Time meridian, you can put (-) for displaying its western direction. (That's why in Seoul the longitude difference is -8.5, if the area is located in east from Tokyo the difference will be (+).) Because it only deals with difference value (not the longitude itself), the longitude difference should be b/w -15 and 15 degree. Since one full rotation (360 degrees) of the Earth takes 24 hours we see that 1 hour of time equates to 15 degrees of longitude (360 degrees of longitude/24 hours= 15 degrees of longitude). I hope this can be helpful to you. Lewis Yook Team Manager, Integrated Simulation Unit. Design and Simulation for Sustainability (DASS) consultants Ltd. 143-834 Venture Center 304-ho 632-9 Guui-dong Gwangjin-gu, Seoul, Korea T. 82.2.913.2585 F. 82.2.949.2585 H. www.dasskorea.com 2008/12/28, Leepaul : > > Dear all, > > I downloaded a weather file from ENERGY+ website, and transfered it as the > binary file ESP-r needs. when I opened that binary weather file with ESP-r, > and tried to output the "integration radiation" data, the esp-r reminded > me"the longitude difference is more than +-15 degree", I noted that the site > data of my downloaed file are: longitude -32.8, and somwhere is 32.8W. So > what does "longitude -32.8, or 32.8W" mean? and why computer tell me"the > longitude difference is more than +-15 degree"? > > thank you for your answer. > > kind regards, > Paul > > ------------------------------ > MSN???????????MSN??? ?????? > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20081229/62822031/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Tue Dec 30 09:53:09 2008 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 09:53:09 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: effect of longitude and latitude on the PV window power output? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2C3CF455489D6B4F95AFAB84847FA41315617A33FF@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk> Changes in longitude will result in the angle of the sun which will alter the geometric relationship between the sun and a surface. It should be easy to test this running a simulation and dumping the PV performance to a file and then altering the MODEL SITE position and making a second run and looking at the differences. -Jon Hand ________________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Leepaul [esprfans at hotmail.com] Sent: 27 December 2008 02:06 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] effect of longitude and latitude on the PV window power output? Dear all, what is the effect of longitude and latitude on power output of the vertical PV windows toward the west. for example, I'm simulating the vertical PV window toward the west located at London, fisrtly I get a power output from the original weather file, then keep anything of London weather file unchanged but change London' longitude, then what will happen for power output? regards, paul ________________________________ MSN???????????MSN??? ??????