From amgad_77 at yahoo.com Mon Jan 8 13:59:06 2007 From: amgad_77 at yahoo.com (amgad aly) Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 05:59:06 -0800 (PST) Subject: [esp-r] New User Message-ID: <410398.49110.qm@web51813.mail.yahoo.com> Dear All, As an architect and a new user trying to go through the ESP-r program, I would ask if any can explain the exact meaning for the connection types, that are found when inquiring the topology tool, They are (connection options): exterior dynamic (similar) boundary static boundary conditions ground (standard profile) ground (user defined profile) ground 3d (conduction) adiabatic (no heat flux) basesimp foundation cen1379 (partition) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From thoele at ifc-collegen.de Tue Jan 9 10:08:04 2007 From: thoele at ifc-collegen.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gunnar_Th=F6le?=) Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2007 11:08:04 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: New User In-Reply-To: <410398.49110.qm@web51813.mail.yahoo.com> References: <410398.49110.qm@web51813.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <45A36984.1000306@ifc-collegen.de> amgad aly schrieb: > Dear All, > As an architect and a new user trying to go through > the ESP-r program, > I would ask if any can explain the exact meaning for > the connection types, that are found when inquiring > the topology tool, Well, i'll try to explain a bit. First, what the connection types are used for. When creating a building model, you'll need to tell the simulator about the state of the environment on both sides of a wall. The inside of the wall is in a room. You don't need to tell the simulator anything about it because that's what a simulator should calculate... But you need to tell it about the outside of walls. This is of course necessary so it can compute heat flux, radiation exchange through the wall etc. For walls where both sides are inside the building the simulator can figure it out on its own, but for walls facing the outside you have to tell it about the outside using the connection options. People, please correct me if i'm wrong here: > exterior Choosing this option makes your wall an exterior wall. Conditions are taken from the climate file (temperature, sun etc.) Usage of this should be obvious. > dynamic (similar) boundary This sets the outside of the wall to be the same as the inside. (Like the wall wouldn't exist at all) You can use this when simulating only one in a row of rooms where each room has similar conditions. > static boundary conditions Asks you for a fixed temperature etc., which stays constant over the simulation period. > ground (standard profile) > ground (user defined profile) > ground 3d (conduction) This is for floors and cellars. It lets you embed your wall into the ground. The profiles are temperature profiles defining ground temperature for each month. There are a variety of standard profiles pre-defined and you can make your own. (Climate files don't have ground temperature data, therefore you'll need to supply it in these options) The 3d thingy is unknown to me. > adiabatic (no heat flux) This already says everything... > basesimp foundation > cen1379 (partition) I don't know these. Browsing through the mailing list archives i found this link describing BASESIMP: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/2006/000176.html Hope this helps, Gunnar From gialloneroverde at gmail.com Tue Jan 9 16:57:42 2007 From: gialloneroverde at gmail.com (giulio benincasa) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 17:57:42 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] User guide for CFD Message-ID: <67666d10701090857v2bdeef7cq8d6ba4494b7c3798@mail.gmail.com> Hi, I don't find anymore the directory in Esru where lie a good user guide on CFD there is someone can you help me thank you advanced best regards Giulio B. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070109/d9a0d622/attachment.html From georgios at esru.strath.ac.uk Tue Jan 9 17:16:39 2007 From: georgios at esru.strath.ac.uk (Georgios Kokogiannakis) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 17:16:39 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: User guide for CFD In-Reply-To: <67666d10701090857v2bdeef7cq8d6ba4494b7c3798@mail.gmail.com> References: <67666d10701090857v2bdeef7cq8d6ba4494b7c3798@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200701091716.39829.georgios@esru.strath.ac.uk> Giulio, you can download the "Data model summary ESP-r Version 9 Series" from the ESRU web site. You can find it under the publications section (see "User Manuals"). You can then read section 5.9 in regards with the CFD in ESP-r. In addition, you can also download Negrao's and Beausoleil-Morrison's PhD thesis or have a look at Joe Clarke's book (see again at the ESRU web site - publications). Regards, Georgios On Tuesday 09 January 2007 16:57, giulio benincasa wrote: > Hi, > > I don't find anymore the directory in Esru where lie a good user guide on > CFD > > there is someone can you help me > > thank you advanced > > best regards Giulio B. From amgad_77 at yahoo.com Tue Jan 9 12:06:41 2007 From: amgad_77 at yahoo.com (amgad aly) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 04:06:41 -0800 (PST) Subject: [esp-r] Re: esp-r Digest, Vol 6, Issue 1 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <686961.46574.qm@web51805.mail.yahoo.com> Thanks a lot for you help. --- esp-r-request at lists.strath.ac.uk wrote: > Send esp-r mailing list submissions to > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, > visit > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > or, via email, send a message with subject or body > 'help' to > esp-r-request at lists.strath.ac.uk > > You can reach the person managing the list at > esp-r-owner at lists.strath.ac.uk > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it > is more specific > than "Re: Contents of esp-r digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. New User (amgad aly) > 2. Re: New User (Gunnar Th?le) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 05:59:06 -0800 (PST) > From: amgad aly > Subject: [esp-r] New User > To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Message-ID: > <410398.49110.qm at web51813.mail.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Dear All, > As an architect and a new user trying to go through > the ESP-r program, > I would ask if any can explain the exact meaning for > the connection types, that are found when inquiring > the topology tool, > They are (connection options): > exterior > dynamic (similar) boundary > static boundary conditions > ground (standard profile) > ground (user defined profile) > ground 3d (conduction) > adiabatic (no heat flux) > basesimp foundation > cen1379 (partition) > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam > protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2007 11:08:04 +0100 > From: Gunnar Th?le > Subject: [esp-r] Re: New User > To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Message-ID: <45A36984.1000306 at ifc-collegen.de> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; > format=flowed > > amgad aly schrieb: > > Dear All, > > As an architect and a new user trying to go > through > > the ESP-r program, > > I would ask if any can explain the exact meaning > for > > the connection types, that are found when > inquiring > > the topology tool, > Well, i'll try to explain a bit. > First, what the connection types are used for. > > When creating a building model, you'll need to tell > the simulator about > the state of the environment on both sides of a > wall. The inside of the > wall is in a room. You don't need to tell the > simulator anything about > it because that's what a simulator should > calculate... > But you need to tell it about the outside of walls. > This is of course necessary so it can compute heat > flux, radiation > exchange through the wall etc. > For walls where both sides are inside the building > the simulator can > figure it out on its own, but for walls facing the > outside you have to > tell it about the outside using the connection > options. > > People, please correct me if i'm wrong here: > > exterior > Choosing this option makes your wall an exterior > wall. Conditions are > taken from the climate file (temperature, sun etc.) > Usage of this should be obvious. > > > dynamic (similar) boundary > This sets the outside of the wall to be the same as > the inside. (Like > the wall wouldn't exist at all) > You can use this when simulating only one in a row > of rooms where each > room has similar conditions. > > > static boundary conditions > Asks you for a fixed temperature etc., which stays > constant over the > simulation period. > > > ground (standard profile) > > ground (user defined profile) > > ground 3d (conduction) > This is for floors and cellars. It lets you embed > your wall into the ground. > The profiles are temperature profiles defining > ground temperature for > each month. There are a variety of standard profiles > pre-defined and you > can make your own. (Climate files don't have ground > temperature data, > therefore you'll need to supply it in these options) > The 3d thingy is unknown to me. > > > adiabatic (no heat flux) > This already says everything... > > > basesimp foundation > > cen1379 (partition) > I don't know these. > Browsing through the mailing list archives i found > this link describing > BASESIMP: > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/2006/000176.html > > > > Hope this helps, > Gunnar > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > > End of esp-r Digest, Vol 6, Issue 1 > *********************************** > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From R.M.J.Bokel at bk.tudelft.nl Tue Jan 9 13:09:49 2007 From: R.M.J.Bokel at bk.tudelft.nl (Bokel, R.M.J.) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 14:09:49 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Radiance installation with Esp-r under Cygwin Message-ID: <060890C50C1FF147B908B95253706C3E1A9F14@bkmail.bk.local> Hi, I am trying to install esp-r including radiance and have managed to get the esp-r working (at least get the first window), but I have trouble using the radiance part. In stead of .rif files I get fort.13 files. Is this normal? Regina Bokel -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070109/65df7ee9/attachment.html From Monika.Hall at josef-gartner.ch Wed Jan 10 07:30:17 2007 From: Monika.Hall at josef-gartner.ch (Hall Monika) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 08:30:17 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: User guide for CFD Message-ID: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C08BBC7@sgartgum1.gart.intra> A good paper is: "The Adaptive Coupling Computational Fluid Dynamics with Whole-building Thermal Simulation" (I. Beausoleil-Morrison, 2001) www.ibpsa.org/proceedings/BS2001/BS01_1259_1266.pdf Regards Monika -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Georgios Kokogiannakis Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 6:17 PM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Re: User guide for CFD Giulio, you can download the "Data model summary ESP-r Version 9 Series" from the ESRU web site. You can find it under the publications section (see "User Manuals"). You can then read section 5.9 in regards with the CFD in ESP-r. In addition, you can also download Negrao's and Beausoleil-Morrison's PhD thesis or have a look at Joe Clarke's book (see again at the ESRU web site - publications). Regards, Georgios On Tuesday 09 January 2007 16:57, giulio benincasa wrote: > Hi, > > I don't find anymore the directory in Esru where lie a good user guide > on CFD > > there is someone can you help me > > thank you advanced > > best regards Giulio B. _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070110/0218c7e2/attachment.html From susasaiz at yahoo.ca Wed Jan 10 14:22:51 2007 From: susasaiz at yahoo.ca (Susana Saiz) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 09:22:51 -0500 (EST) Subject: [esp-r] air flow network Message-ID: <20070110142251.93647.qmail@web36608.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi everyone, I am trying to create an air flow network and I have doubts about which is the height of the linkage point relative exterior and interior nodes. Also, I have created a ventilation chimney for passive cooling and I am not sure of how to simulate the air flow thorugh it. I would appreciate any suggestion about this issue. Thanks, Susana __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070110/3099b97f/attachment.html From ing.wong at ulster.ac.uk Thu Jan 11 11:42:27 2007 From: ing.wong at ulster.ac.uk (Ing Liang Wong) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 11:42:27 -0000 Subject: [esp-r] Plot of Graph Message-ID: <001001c73575$91bdcf90$19873dc1@wongcst> Dear all, It appears to me that the graphs drawn for different building surfaces in a particular zone all have a same colour. It is sometimes a bit confused when you want to compare 2 or 3 different surfaces. Can we change the colour of the graphs we plotted and how? Regards, Wong -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070111/943826a5/attachment.html From gialloneroverde at gmail.com Fri Jan 12 12:16:14 2007 From: gialloneroverde at gmail.com (giulio benincasa) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 13:16:14 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Results CFD Message-ID: <67666d10701120416l60932b8ei2c32d2cfdd6b668e@mail.gmail.com> Hi, I have lunch a integrated simulation on test case with thermal conflation 1 (and then 2) ; the simulator make lib results libc in home directory but when I search to open this file by results analisys the answer is could not find this file; There is someone can you help me thank you in advanced best regards Giulio Benincasa -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070112/f760b695/attachment.html From Monika.Hall at josef-gartner.ch Fri Jan 12 12:25:24 2007 From: Monika.Hall at josef-gartner.ch (Hall Monika) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 13:25:24 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Results CFD Message-ID: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C08BD5D@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Dear Giulio, you should move the libc-file in the cfg-folder. Then you can call it by name (without path). Regards Monika _____ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of giulio benincasa Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 1:16 PM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Results CFD Hi, I have lunch a integrated simulation on test case with thermal conflation 1 (and then 2) ; the simulator make lib results libc in home directory but when I search to open this file by results analisys the answer is could not find this file; There is someone can you help me thank you in advanced best regards Giulio Benincasa -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070112/da716293/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Fri Jan 12 13:49:33 2007 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand (clcv10)) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 13:49:33 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Plot of Graph In-Reply-To: <001001c73575$91bdcf90$19873dc1@wongcst> References: <001001c73575$91bdcf90$19873dc1@wongcst> Message-ID: <047EBF8F-069A-47E3-BD5A-41281046460F@esru.strath.ac.uk> Changing the colours in the results analysis module graphs for different surfaces in the same zone would require rewriting part of the inteface code. The colours are hard-coded. You could export the data as comma and/or tab separated and then graph the data via a 3rd party tool. As a short term option. -ESRU From Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch Tue Jan 16 14:36:42 2007 From: Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch (Geissler Achim) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 15:36:42 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] ESP-r tackles "Facade Respirant" ... any chance? Message-ID: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C08BF23@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Dear Community! Has anybody ever tried to model that French speciality, a "Fa?ade Respirant"? One aspect of this type of fa?ade will pose a modelling problem, as far as I am aware: It would require an air flow network with really low air flows ... actually, flows induced by the thermal expansion / contraction of the fa?ade gap air, only (as the fa?ade is not ventilated, but only pressure equalized via comparatively small openings usually situated at the bottom edge of the fa?ade elements) ... does anyone have an idea, how to maybe model this? Is the afn engine capable of doing this, at all? Jon? Thanks for any suggestions, Best regards Achim Geissler -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070116/48afd313/attachment.html From Denis.Constales at UGent.be Wed Jan 17 10:36:24 2007 From: Denis.Constales at UGent.be (Denis Constales) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 11:36:24 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Modeling of clothing textile... using esp-r? Message-ID: <62A6E8F3-9862-44DE-A198-9932E13FDF73@UGent.be> Dear All, I've just attended a presentation on the modeling of clothing textiles (e.g. for firemen, or for use in foul weather, or for certain patients who are unable to maintain proper body temperature, etc.) and I was struck by the analogy with building simulation: it's a matter of getting the heat, moisture and ventilation aspects analyzed, while taking into account active components such as the human body's "thermostat" set at 37 degrees Celsius, with the purpose of ensuring comfort and maybe optimizing cost or other factors. Now if one were to model roughly a human body like a robot built out of blocks, and if instead of wall layer data one were to use the thermal etc. characteristics of given textile layers, quite useful results might be obtained using esp-r for the textile industry (of course on a time scale of simulated minutes rather than days as it is now). My question: have people already been doing this? Would the developers of esp-r be interested in, say, "modding" their code into such a textile simulation package? It's not for charity, there are European projects riding on these issues (for submission in April, I understand). If there is interest, please tell me and I'll make sure the people who need this will contact you. Thanks in advance, D.C. -- Denis Constales From ing.wong at ulster.ac.uk Wed Jan 17 12:59:44 2007 From: ing.wong at ulster.ac.uk (Ing Liang Wong) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 12:59:44 -0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Plot of Graph References: <001001c73575$91bdcf90$19873dc1@wongcst> <047EBF8F-069A-47E3-BD5A-41281046460F@esru.strath.ac.uk> Message-ID: <000201c73a37$5c11a120$19873dc1@wongcst> Hi all, I have tried to export the graph data, by capturing the graphic (either options) and export as a .gif file to my directory. However, it is a bit strange as there is no .gif file in the directory. I assume I had followed the right step of exporting graph data, am I? Could someone shed some light on this problem? Thanks. Regards, Wong ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon Hand (clcv10)" To: "Ing Liang Wong" Cc: "ESP-r mailing list" Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 1:49 PM Subject: [esp-r] Re: Plot of Graph > > Changing the colours in the results analysis module graphs for different > surfaces in the same zone would require rewriting part of the > inteface code. > The colours are hard-coded. > > You could export the data as comma and/or tab > separated and then graph the data via a 3rd party tool. As a short term > option. > > -ESRU > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > From Monika.Hall at josef-gartner.ch Wed Jan 17 15:08:37 2007 From: Monika.Hall at josef-gartner.ch (Hall Monika) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 16:08:37 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Plot of Graph Message-ID: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C08BFD3@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Hi Wong, my way to export data is: Result analysis -> timestep reports -> perf. metrics -> choose the output data -> display graph:screen -> create file in model folder: xy.grt file -> ok -> !list data After that you will find in the cfg-folder the xy.grt file with your data. I hope this helps you. Regards Monika -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Ing Liang Wong Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 2:00 PM To: ESP-r mailing list Subject: [esp-r] Re: Plot of Graph Hi all, I have tried to export the graph data, by capturing the graphic (either options) and export as a .gif file to my directory. However, it is a bit strange as there is no .gif file in the directory. I assume I had followed the right step of exporting graph data, am I? Could someone shed some light on this problem? Thanks. Regards, Wong ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon Hand (clcv10)" To: "Ing Liang Wong" Cc: "ESP-r mailing list" Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 1:49 PM Subject: [esp-r] Re: Plot of Graph > > Changing the colours in the results analysis module graphs for different > surfaces in the same zone would require rewriting part of the > inteface code. > The colours are hard-coded. > > You could export the data as comma and/or tab > separated and then graph the data via a 3rd party tool. As a short term > option. > > -ESRU > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070117/ad585788/attachment.html From oliver.bucks at club-internet.fr Wed Jan 17 16:53:03 2007 From: oliver.bucks at club-internet.fr (Oliver Bucks) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 17:53:03 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Plot of Graph References: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C08BFD3@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Message-ID: <004001c73a57$f470fe00$a700a8c0@olli> RE: [esp-r] Re: Plot of GraphHello Wong, I follow the same procedure as Monika, except that When I choose the data that I am interested in, I limit myself to 8 types (eg. resultant temperature for 1 zone = 1 type ; relative humidity for 1 zone = 1 type). The file name I give ends in ".csv" (without quotation marks). These ".csv" values can be opened in Excel through the menu Data -> Import external data -> Import Data. In the pop-up window which opens, choose delimited, then comma then FINISH ! Hope this helps. Olli Bucks -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070117/26b2e3af/attachment.html From Bejlniu at polyu.edu.hk Thu Jan 18 06:41:36 2007 From: Bejlniu at polyu.edu.hk (J.L. Niu) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 14:41:36 +0800 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Modeling of clothing textile... using esp-r? In-Reply-To: <62A6E8F3-9862-44DE-A198-9932E13FDF73@UGent.be> References: <62A6E8F3-9862-44DE-A198-9932E13FDF73@UGent.be> Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.0.20070118143122.03418a70@mail.polyu.edu.hk> Dear Denis, You may refer to the following paper, which may provide some technical details on combined simulation of human body thermal regulation and the thermal environment. Gao, N. P., Niu JL, and Zhang H. Coupling CFD and human body thermoregulation model for the assessment of personalized ventilation", International Journal of HVAC&R Research, 12 (3): 497-518 JUL 2006 The work is done by iterative manual combination of CFD model and human body model. We would be interested to work with any party to build up an automated numerical model into esp-r. Jianlei Niu At 06:36 PM 1/17/2007, Denis Constales wrote: >Dear All, > >I've just attended a presentation on the modeling of clothing >textiles (e.g. for firemen, or for use in foul weather, or for >certain patients who are unable to maintain proper body temperature, >etc.) and I was struck by the analogy with building simulation: it's >a matter of getting the heat, moisture and ventilation aspects >analyzed, while taking into account active components such as the >human body's "thermostat" set at 37 degrees Celsius, with the purpose >of ensuring comfort and maybe optimizing cost or other factors. > >Now if one were to model roughly a human body like a robot built out >of blocks, and if instead of wall layer data one were to use the >thermal etc. characteristics of given textile layers, quite useful >results might be obtained using esp-r for the textile industry (of >course on a time scale of simulated minutes rather than days as it is >now). > >My question: have people already been doing this? Would the >developers of esp-r be interested in, say, "modding" their code into >such a textile simulation package? It's not for charity, there are >European projects riding on these issues (for submission in April, I >understand). If there is interest, please tell me and I'll make sure >the people who need this will contact you. Thanks in advance, D.C. >-- >Denis Constales > >_______________________________________________ >esp-r mailing list >esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk >http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From gialloneroverde at gmail.com Thu Jan 18 11:16:26 2007 From: gialloneroverde at gmail.com (giulio benincasa) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 12:16:26 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Results CFD Message-ID: <67666d10701180316k10f09973m1cc909267666cbef@mail.gmail.com> Hi, I have a problem with format file XPM of results CFD because this format isn't read in ambient Windows and so I can't show this type of results or insert in a document ........ There is someone can you help me thank you in advanced best regards Giulio Benincasa -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070118/f183c1e9/attachment.html From georgios at esru.strath.ac.uk Thu Jan 18 11:50:29 2007 From: georgios at esru.strath.ac.uk (Georgios Kokogiannakis) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 11:50:29 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Results CFD In-Reply-To: <67666d10701180316k10f09973m1cc909267666cbef@mail.gmail.com> References: <67666d10701180316k10f09973m1cc909267666cbef@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200701181150.29968.georgios@esru.strath.ac.uk> If you already have an XPM file you just simply need to download and install one of the Windows image tools that can read or convert this file to another image format. From a quick search, I see there are many of them available for windows (some of them are free or free to try). Examples of free tools that I see are: "PixRev 1", "Open and Save Dialogs Toolkit 2.0", etc. I have not tried any of them. You could search web sites such as the download.com Georgios On Thursday 18 January 2007 11:16, giulio benincasa wrote: > Hi, > I have a problem with format file XPM of results CFD because this format > isn't read in ambient Windows and so I can't show this type of results or > insert in a document ........ > There is someone can you help me > > thank you in advanced > > best regards Giulio Benincasa From dfiala at fbta.uni-karlsruhe.de Thu Jan 18 11:47:00 2007 From: dfiala at fbta.uni-karlsruhe.de (D. Fiala) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 12:47:00 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Modeling of clothing textile... using esp-r? In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.0.20070118143122.03418a70@mail.polyu.edu.hk> References: <62A6E8F3-9862-44DE-A198-9932E13FDF73@UGent.be> <6.0.1.1.0.20070118143122.03418a70@mail.polyu.edu.hk> Message-ID: <45AF5E34.5060201@fbta.uni-karlsruhe.de> Dear Denis, I think models of human thermoregulation specifically developed to predict human thermal behaviours and validated using appropriate physiological data would better do the job you have in mind rather than using a building simulation program. In human heat transfer, heat conduction in the tissue (walls in esp-r) is a rather minor effect compared e.g. to blood circulation and thermoregulatory adjustments of the metabolic rates, skin blood flows, and moisture mass production (my experience of over 15 years in human thermal modelling). Here, esp-r might not be appropriate to model these effects (not mentioning e.g. the human body specific surface convection coefficients, etc.) Coupled CFD-human physiology models as raised by Jianlei are certainly the 'cutting edge' in current thermal comfort modelling research. We at Uni Karlsruhe (together with DMU - both are European groups) are currently involved in modelling in detail the driving forces due to human occupancy in naturally ventilated buildings by coupling our model of human heat transfer and thermal comfort with CFD. If detailed CFD simulation was an 'overkill' for your purposes a link/coupling with tools like a building simulation program predicting reliably (but with less detail) the environmental conditions surrounding human occupants might be the better choice for you (we did that sort of 'coupling' some time ago by linking our dynamic model of human physiology and comfort with esp-r). Best regards Dusan Fiala Am 18.01.2007 07:41, J.L. Niu schrieb: > Dear Denis, > > You may refer to the following paper, which may provide some technical > details on combined simulation of human body thermal regulation and the > thermal environment. > > Gao, N. P., Niu JL, and Zhang H. Coupling CFD and human body > thermoregulation model for the assessment of personalized > ventilation", International Journal of HVAC&R Research, 12 (3): 497-518 > JUL 2006 > > The work is done by iterative manual combination of CFD model and human > body model. We would be interested to work with any party to build up an > automated numerical model into esp-r. > > Jianlei Niu > > At 06:36 PM 1/17/2007, Denis Constales wrote: > >> Dear All, >> >> I've just attended a presentation on the modeling of clothing >> textiles (e.g. for firemen, or for use in foul weather, or for >> certain patients who are unable to maintain proper body temperature, >> etc.) and I was struck by the analogy with building simulation: it's >> a matter of getting the heat, moisture and ventilation aspects >> analyzed, while taking into account active components such as the >> human body's "thermostat" set at 37 degrees Celsius, with the purpose >> of ensuring comfort and maybe optimizing cost or other factors. >> >> Now if one were to model roughly a human body like a robot built out >> of blocks, and if instead of wall layer data one were to use the >> thermal etc. characteristics of given textile layers, quite useful >> results might be obtained using esp-r for the textile industry (of >> course on a time scale of simulated minutes rather than days as it is >> now). >> >> My question: have people already been doing this? Would the >> developers of esp-r be interested in, say, "modding" their code into >> such a textile simulation package? It's not for charity, there are >> European projects riding on these issues (for submission in April, I >> understand). If there is interest, please tell me and I'll make sure >> the people who need this will contact you. Thanks in advance, D.C. >> -- >> Denis Constales >> >> _______________________________________________ >> esp-r mailing list >> esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk >> http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r >> >> _______________________________________________ >> esp-r mailing list >> esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk >> http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r >> From gialloneroverde at gmail.com Thu Jan 18 12:30:17 2007 From: gialloneroverde at gmail.com (giulio benincasa) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 13:30:17 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Results CFD In-Reply-To: <200701181150.29968.georgios@esru.strath.ac.uk> References: <67666d10701180316k10f09973m1cc909267666cbef@mail.gmail.com> <200701181150.29968.georgios@esru.strath.ac.uk> Message-ID: <67666d10701180430w17e55c45pb2b189135d69baee@mail.gmail.com> Thank you to you best regards Giulio 2007/1/18, Georgios Kokogiannakis : > > If you already have an XPM file you just simply need to download and > install > one of the Windows image tools that can read or convert this file to > another > image format. > >From a quick search, I see there are many of them available for windows > (some > of them are free or free to try). Examples of free tools that I see are: > "PixRev 1", "Open and Save Dialogs Toolkit 2.0", etc. > I have not tried any of them. > You could search web sites such as the download.com > > Georgios > > On Thursday 18 January 2007 11:16, giulio benincasa wrote: > > Hi, > > I have a problem with format file XPM of results CFD because this format > > isn't read in ambient Windows and so I can't show this type of results > or > > insert in a document ........ > > There is someone can you help me > > > > thank you in advanced > > > > best regards Giulio Benincasa > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070118/1df6c1b6/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Thu Jan 18 15:30:28 2007 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand (clcv10)) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 15:30:28 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] request for electrical data for lighting and small power devices Message-ID: We are reviewing the contextual help associated with zone operations definitions for electrical data for lights and small power loads. The current help says almost nothing and it would be useful if it provided a bit of discussion for common types of lighting and small power devices. Electrical is not really my thing so if anyone has some information on the following types of information for European and North American contexts: name of device : __ power factor (between 0.0 and 1.0) : __ leading or lagging : __ real power consumption (W) : __ sensible gain (W) : __ typical sensible radiant fraction (%) : __ and typical sensible convective fraction (%) :__ latent gain (W) or g/hour : __ voltage (V) : __ phase if is connected to (if a 3 phase supply) : __ source of information (or relevant standard) : __ It would be great if the help text for a lighting load gave these values for fluorescent (tube and compact), halogen, incandescent, LED etc. Ditto for laptops, desktop computers, monitors, oscillating fans, water pumps etc. I am happy to type in the text into the code. Contributore could just fill in the : __ above section for each device and email it back to jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Looking forward to anyones contributions! -ESRU From Monika.Hall at josef-gartner.ch Thu Jan 18 13:11:58 2007 From: Monika.Hall at josef-gartner.ch (Hall Monika) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 14:11:58 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Results CFD Message-ID: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C08C056@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Hi Giulio, my tip is: open the xpm-file with the programm irfanview, save the file as a bmp-file or make a screenshot. Regards Monika _____ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of giulio benincasa Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 12:16 PM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Results CFD Hi, I have a problem with format file XPM of results CFD because this format isn't read in ambient Windows and so I can't show this type of results or insert in a document ........ There is someone can you help me thank you in advanced best regards Giulio Benincasa -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070118/a6b6fbfb/attachment.html From schlitzberger at ibh-hauser.de Sun Jan 21 19:17:41 2007 From: schlitzberger at ibh-hauser.de (Stephan Schlitzberger) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 20:17:41 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] node temperatures Message-ID: <000001c73d90$d4721620$2601a8c0@fhgzubpc69> Hello esp-r users! I have a problem with node temperatures and inner/outer surface temperatures. Using the save option 3 in the simulation-tool allows to analyse the different node temperatures in addition to the normally presented inner and outer surface temperatures of a construction. In the way I understand nodes are defined, the output of the first temperature node should result in the same temperature as if I choose the outer surface temperature of the same construction. But it isn?t. Another difference in temperature-reporting I found concerning for example a wall between two zones. Let?s say we have a construction with three layers what results in a 6-node model of the wall. Choosing the 1st node temperature of this wall from the point of view of one of the two zones (which means to output the outer surface temperature in this case) and choosing the 6th node temperature from the point of view of the other zone?s identical but inversed construction (which means to output the inner surface temperature) also doesn?t lead to identical temperature curves. Does anyone have any idea what can be the reason for these differences? Perhaps the real definition of the layers and nodes is diffrent from the way I understand it Thank you for any response, Stephan Schlitzberger -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070121/69185d5b/attachment-0001.html From gialloneroverde at gmail.com Tue Jan 23 10:11:36 2007 From: gialloneroverde at gmail.com (giulio benincasa) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 11:11:36 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] CFD results Message-ID: <67666d10701230211k691ad77k3c6cc5811479927c@mail.gmail.com> Hi, I use to picture the results of a simulation by CFD the option XPM; there is a fashion to picture the results in 3D with the features of XPM file ? Thank you in advanced, best regards Giulio Benincasa -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070123/9a6d6ed7/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Tue Jan 23 10:37:11 2007 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand (clcv10)) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 10:37:11 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: CFD results In-Reply-To: <67666d10701230211k691ad77k3c6cc5811479927c@mail.gmail.com> References: <67666d10701230211k691ad77k3c6cc5811479927c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5EDC4EDC-E0F0-40A2-A308-9FE0E078481B@esru.strath.ac.uk> A recent question asking why and XPM graphics file is generated for CFD results... Several reasons, mostly pragmatic - an XPM file is an ASCII file so there is no issue moving it between machines - an XPM file is a public standard (so we could figure out what its contents were) - an XPM file was something that we figured out how to write to without having to have lots of external dependencies - and there were multiple options for converting that file into other file formats but mostly it was not much of a hassle on Linux and Unix and Mac OSX machines. In our general move to the GTK toolkit I suspect that we will find that it is possible to easily generate other file formats. -Jon From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Wed Jan 24 13:16:33 2007 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand (clcv10)) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 13:16:33 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Looking for models/experience of zone control law 8 Message-ID: <22D5DE47-2972-4334-AC46-4480F6F46EBD@esru.strath.ac.uk> During a systematic update of ESp-r zone ideal control I started looking at the "Variable supply temperature with limit constraints" control which is implemented (but tersely documented) in bcfunc.F subroutine BCL08. This control has rather terse user help messages in the project manager interface as well. A draft help text for the editing menu is shown below based on a brief review of the code. If anyone has ideas for making this text better I would appreciate it.... h(1)='This control represents an idealised air based ' h(2)='environmental control system that delivers air ' h(3)='at a fixed flow rate (same for heating & cooling' h(4)='operation). The heating supply temperature varies' h(5)='up to a maximum setpoint and the cooling supply' h(6)='temperature varies down to a minimum setpoint.' h(7)=' ' h(8)='The room heating and cooling setpoints (typically' h(9)='defined so there is a deadband) are met on the basis' h(10)='of the heating and/or cooling implicit at the ' h(11)='defined flow rate and supply temperature (i.e.' h(12)='the capacity and efficiency of the supply is not' h(13)='defined). You have the option to specify that cooling' h(14)='is not available. ' h(15)=' ' h(16)='This control law can be used to check whether an ' h(17)='air based system is able to meet demand patterns in ' h(18)='a room prior to specification of a detailed component' h(19)='model.' I am also looking for information on WHO might have worked on this control in the past to get a better idea the sorts of applications where this code would be applicable. Perhaps they would help me to extend the document of the equations in the code as well.... I have not yet found any exemplar model that uses this and it would be great to find out if anyone in the community has used control law 8 and has a model that they might contribute which uses this or could suggest further documentation. It would seem like this control would be just the thing for an early design stage question such as "will a 1.3m^sec supply temperature with a lower limit of 15C work in this room and how often is that supply temperature required? Any suggestions please email jon at esru.strath.ac.uk -Jon From xxlong at ustc.edu Thu Jan 25 02:35:04 2007 From: xxlong at ustc.edu (luochenglong) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 10:35:04 +0800 Subject: [esp-r] =?gb2312?b?UE1WPw==?= Message-ID: Hello all, When i simulate the thermal comfort level for a building zone using ESP-r,there is a set for predict mean vote(PMV) i don't know how i should do.It asks"Which casual gain represents occupancy?",and there are five options:Always occupied,Lights,time,Occupt and Equipt.My trouble is that i don't know the representations of the five different opitons.It really confuses me a lot,could some one expound it for me? Thank you for your attention! Luo -- USTC Alumni Email System From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Thu Jan 25 17:57:31 2007 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand (clcv10)) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 17:57:31 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: PMV? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7456D8D0-752F-4B44-BFB0-391CB4CA2535@esru.strath.ac.uk> A recent question about reporting on comfort within ESp-r.... > Hello all, > When i simulate the thermal comfort level for a > building zone using ESP-r,there is a set for > predict mean vote(PMV) i don't know how i should > do.It asks"Which casual gain represents > occupancy?",and there are five options:Always > occupied,Lights,time,Occupt and Equipt.My trouble > is that i don't know the representations of the > five different opitons.It really confuses me a > lot,could some one expound it for me? We had a look at the contextual help associated with this dialog in the results analysis application and found it to be somewhat terse. Below is some revised text that is going to be put into the code: H(1)='To identify when during the day that comfort should be' H(2)='reported you have several options: ' H(3)=' Always occupied - assess comfort 24/7 i.e. independent' H(4)=' of the occupant schedules with the zone operation' H(5)=' file.' H(6)=' Labels from the zone operations file - the 2nd - 4th' H(7)=' options of the in the dialog reflect what has been' H(8)=' defined in the zone operations file for casual gain' H(9)=' types ( if you select one of these then comfort is' H(10)=' reported for non-zero sensible gain periods.' H(11)=' time - you specify a start time and an end time for' H(12)=' a typical day and comfort is assessed during this' H(13)=' period.' H(14)=' ' H(15)='If you have not altered the labels for the casual gains' H(16)='within the zone operations file the first Type is for' H(17)='occupants the second Type is lights and the third Type' H(18)='is Equipment (small power).' And the other thing a user can do is to review what has been defined in the zone operation file. If there are occupants it should be clear which of the three casual gain types is used. In the question above the word "occupant" did not show up as a casual gain type so it might be that there are no occupants in that particular zone. And there is some discussion in the Project Manager about how casual gains are treated as well as a discussion in the ESP-r cookbook (available from the ESRU web page). -ESRU From xxlong at ustc.edu Fri Jan 26 06:25:18 2007 From: xxlong at ustc.edu (luochenglong) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 14:25:18 +0800 Subject: [esp-r] vented trombe wall? Message-ID: <002e01c74112$bfbdeb20$a600a8c0@hoholuo> Hi, I am trying to use ESP-r to simulate the performance of a room with vented trombe wall,and i creat the air flow network without external environment node seeing the figure attachment,but i doubt whether it works right.Could someone give me the answer,and if possible give me some advice how i should do for the simulation of trombe wall using ESP-r? Thank you for your time! Luo -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070126/5dd99a44/attachment.html From xxlong at ustc.edu Fri Jan 26 06:46:46 2007 From: xxlong at ustc.edu (luochenglong) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 14:46:46 +0800 Subject: [esp-r] vented trombe wall? Message-ID: <001c01c74115$bf379cc0$a600a8c0@hoholuo> Hi, I am trying to use ESP-r to simulate the performance of a room with vented trombe wall,and i creat the air flow network without external environment node seeing the figure attachment,but i doubt whether it works right.Could someone give me the answer,and if possible give me some advice how i should do for the simulation of trombe wall using ESP-r? Thank you for your time! Luo -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070126/f3459450/attachment-0001.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: air flow network.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 34792 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070126/f3459450/attachment-0001.jpe From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Fri Jan 26 12:39:53 2007 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand (clcv10)) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 12:39:53 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] ESP-r Developers Conference 2007 - announcement Message-ID: <3A9D84D8-81C6-4399-9C22-502F6BCC8CBD@esru.strath.ac.uk> Announcement: ESP-r Developers Conference Venue: Department of Mechanical Engineering, University of Strathclyde, Glasgow Scotland Date: 22-24 March 2007 Cost: 100 Pounds (to cover lunches and refreshments and administrative overheads) The Energy Systems Research Unit of the University of Strathclyde are pleased to announce the 3rd ESP-r Developers Conference to be held in Glasgow this March. Overview Much has happened since the ESP-r community last gathered: q ESP-r is well into its transition from using X11 graphics to the multi-platform GTK graphics tool kit. q A Beta version of windows ESP-r has been released. q Self-extracting installers have been introduced for each of the major computing platforms. q ESP-r development has been placed under a central source code repository - there have been more than 700 commits to the repository since March of 2006! q A formal testing procedure for source code developments has been put in place. q The Install process has been rewritten, and new features added. For example, it is no longer necessary for ESP-r to be located in /usr/esru q A new email list for the core development team is up and running providing notification of changes in each of the development branches. q New Exemplar models and facilities for managing model variants have been introduced. q Many new features have been added. For example: new detailed component models have been developed for plant and commercial scale systems models have been developed; contaminant tracking and coupling of CFD to building models have been made more user friendly. One of the functions of the conference will be to highlight these developments. However the main focus will be to discuss the options for continuing the development of ESP-r into the future. Conference Details The conference will cover a range of topics relating to the future development of ESP-r. Each session will feature presentations and a discussion on an important development topic. Each session will be moderated and the discussion and outcomes will be recorded with a view to producing conference proceedings and a development strategy document. Thursday session 1: Introduction and Review Opening announcements and a review of the current state of ESP-r. Thursday session 2: Development Issues There are two issues that confront the community, which ultimately will dictate the survival of the code: q ESP-r needs to attract new users, as it is from new users that new developers emerge. Currently ESP-r, while being an incredibly powerful tool, does not conform to novice user expectations, the result being that new users are discouraged from using the tool and consequently lose many potential developers. How can we evolve the tool to develop a thriving user community? q ESP-r has recently passed several critical CEN standards but is continually confronted by changes in regulatory standards and the need to evolve so as to gain accreditation. What opportunities exist to fund vital accreditation work? This session will evolve a list of tasks and issues to carry forward to subsequent sessions. Thursday session 3: Interface The ESP-r interface has served the community well, however a lack of funding has limited development and in its current form problems are emerging as highlighted above for new users but also in the general development and management of simulation projects. These problems could be addressed by leveraging the substantial wealth of interface widgets that GTK offers to bring ESP-r in line with user expectations. However there is currently a lack of interface development in the community to progress this task at an acceptable pace. This session is focused on finding the means to accelerate the evolution of the interface and developing the guidelines and key objectives for future interface development. Thursday evening dinner Details TBC Friday session 1: Mainstreaming Advanced Features ESP-r has a number of lesser-used advanced features that require a lot of expert knowledge to use, effectively hiding them from the user community. This session is focused on developing a strategy to bring the power of ESP-r?s advanced features to the rest of the community. Friday session 2: Improving Information Retrieval ESP-r produces a wealth of data from a simulation yet there are significant issues as to how this data is stored and analysed. Simulation information is often scattered across several results libraries. Further, information data such as fan power or the overall performance of environmental systems made up from a network of detailed components needs to be derived from the raw simulation data and involves significant user effort. Finally it is difficult to compare the performance of different model variants. This session is focused on improving results processing facilities to better support performance analysis. The session will also seek to identify where critical model attributes need to be extended in order to deliver more appropriate performance information. Friday session 2: Source Code Control [Hands On] The move to subversion has had many implications for the evolution of ESP-r. This session is designed to introduce the mechanics of source code control to the development community. Features: q Review of the structure of the archive and working practices. q 45 min workshop with hands-on experience in the use of subversion tasks and the development cycle q Open discussion on how we leverage source code control to work in distributed teams and to tackle major projects. Friday session 4: Wrap-up and outcomes This session brings together the consensus from the earlier sessions (session chairs report) for discussion and decision making. The goal of the session is a list of specific actions, likely contributors and potential resources which can be distributed to the community at the end of the conference. If you would be interested in attending please reply by return e- mail. Further details will be sent soon [ ] I would like to attend. Name: Organisation: email: telephone: Further information: [ ] I would like to moderate a session session name:_________ [ ] I have a presentation for one of the sessions session name:_________ title of presentation:___________ length of presentation [ max. 10 minutes] [ ] I want to take part in the Saturday subversion skills workshop [ ] I have a source code branch branch name:________ [ ] I am thinking about joining the development community [ ] I have an idea for the development of ESP-r and I want to find others to work with: development description:____ skills I have:____ ideas for contributions by others:____ Regards, -ESRU -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070126/670435ed/attachment-0001.html From Gunter.Pueltz at MuellerBBM.de Fri Jan 26 15:38:56 2007 From: Gunter.Pueltz at MuellerBBM.de (Pueltz, Gunter) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 16:38:56 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Validation of ESP -r according to the German VDI6020/VDI2067/VDI6 007 Message-ID: <2417729F3416D511A27E0090273A963B027870C5@smex01.mbbm.de> Dear ESP-r users, has anyone validated ESP -r by performing all the test cases according to the German guidelines VDI6020/VDI2067/VDI6007 ? In case of: Which results ? Is there any documentation available ? Regards, Gunter -- Gunter P?ltz M?ller-BBM GmbH Robert-Koch-Stra?e 11 82152 Planegg Telefon +49 (0)89 85602 - 336 Telefax +49 (0)89 85602 - 111 http://www.MuellerBBM.de From doreen.kalz at ise.fraunhofer.de Fri Jan 26 15:56:41 2007 From: doreen.kalz at ise.fraunhofer.de (Doreen Kalz) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 16:56:41 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] result analysis Message-ID: <45BA24B9.4040106@ise.fraunhofer.de> Dear all, using different result analyses (zone results and flow results) I encountered the following problem: The output of the ambient air temperature within the zone results is shifted by one hour compared to the output values of the ambient air temperature in the flow results. Ist it a bug? Best regards, Doreen Kalz -- Dipl.-Ing. Doreen Kalz Dep. Thermal Systems and Buildings Fraunhofer-Institut f?r Solare Energiesysteme ISE Heidenhofstrasse 2, 79110 Freiburg, Germany Phone: +49(0)761/4588-5403 Fax: +49(0)761/4588-9000 doreen.kalz at ise.fraunhofer.de http://www.ise.fraunhofer.de From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Fri Jan 26 16:25:46 2007 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand (clcv10)) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 16:25:46 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: result analysis In-Reply-To: <45BA24B9.4040106@ise.fraunhofer.de> References: <45BA24B9.4040106@ise.fraunhofer.de> Message-ID: <40C37A11-57D9-4DD6-AA9E-EE4906FBE49A@esru.strath.ac.uk> A recent question about an apparent time shift in reported ambient temperatures between zones and flow nodes.... > using different result analyses (zone results and flow results) I > encountered the following problem: The output of the ambient air > temperature within the zone results is shifted by one hour compared to > the output values of the ambient air temperature in the flow results. The underlying graphing code is different between the section that works with zones and the interface section that works with air flow predictions - it is concievable that this could cause a one timestep shift in how the information is graphed which you have spotted. No one else has reported this so the task is to find out if there is anything special about this model. For example if you have turned on a timestep controller for the flow solver then the offset could be a bug. If "abmient air temperature" is the temperature of the air from the climate file then both sections of code will be scanning the climate file - there is a subtle difference in the time domains when the zone and flow domains are being solved and the solvers are mature and subjected to lots of testing. Graphing the results is a separate task and if there is a bug in that it would not be the same as a bug in the original solution. To clarify this - run one simulation with a one hour timestep and a 2nd simulation run at a 10 minute timestep and look at the results to see if the "shift" exists and if it is ten minutes or one hour. And it would also be useful to do a timestep listing of the data as well as graphing it and it might also be useful to use the climate analysis tool to graph or list out the day of climate data to get a better idea about which value is "the truth". Let us know what you find out. -ESRU From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Fri Jan 26 17:19:14 2007 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand (clcv10)) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 17:19:14 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: vented trombe wall? In-Reply-To: <001c01c74115$bf379cc0$a600a8c0@hoholuo> References: <001c01c74115$bf379cc0$a600a8c0@hoholuo> Message-ID: <9EB23E0D-4988-48AB-A018-642755E9A8A3@esru.strath.ac.uk> A recent question about flow networks without an external (boundary) node. > I am trying to use ESP-r to simulate the performance of a room with > vented trombe wall,and i creat the air flow network without > external environment node seeing the figure attachment,but i doubt > whether it works right. It is guaranteed that this will not work. According to the documentation all flow networks much include at least one boundary node type (either to a wind pressure node or a specified pressure node). ESP-r probably complained a lot about this model. Air is not compressible in the flow solution so there must be some connection (even if it is via several other paths) from every internal node to a boundary. And in reality few buildings are 100% closed (might happen in the International Space Station). There are several of the exemplar models which illustrate options for creating links to the outside. And those who would like to find out more about designing flow networks have a look at the ESRU web page for upcoming training events. -ESRU -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070126/f1609429/attachment.html From datik at centrum.cz Tue Jan 30 12:58:39 2007 From: datik at centrum.cz (datik at centrum.cz) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 13:58:39 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] windows esp-r 11.2 Message-ID: <200701301358.10421@centrum.cz> Hallo, I try use esp-r 11.2 windows native but I have problem with model geometry. Geometry edit does not work ? I change surface nodes in command window but it change only four nodes and typically one new add (I check .geo file too). I don?t use English version of Windows XP, so I try change regional settings (decimal point, comma) etc., GTK languages but without change. I think that other esp-r functions are normal (nodes delete, add,..). Esp-r in Cygwin works without problems. Please, does it geometry edit work in English windows version correctly? Thank you.Michal -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070130/3b6bf95b/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Wed Jan 31 11:09:25 2007 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand (clcv10)) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 11:09:25 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] about editing text in Windows native ESP-r Message-ID: A recent question about editing zone geometry in the Windows native version... > try use esp-r 11.2 windows native but I have problem with model > geometry. Geometry edit does not work ? I change surface nodes in > command window but it change only four nodes and typically one new > add (I check .geo file too). I don?t use English version of Windows > XP, so I try change regional settings (decimal point, comma) etc., > GTK languages but without change. I think that other esp-r > functions are normal (nodes delete, add,..). Esp-r in Cygwin works > without problems. This pattern seems to happen on some Windows machines and the native Windows version of ESo-r and is not a reportedissue for any of the other computer platforms. It seems to happen mostly where a series of numbers are being edited (e.g. list of surface vertices or the X Y Z of a co-ordinate). There is a work-around (while we try and debug this). The work-around is to insert one or two blank characters prior to the initial number and to change the number of blank character between the numbers and a few additional blanks after the last number. Another work-around is to delete all of the characters in the dialogue and re-type them. This is frustrating as the problem does not show up consistently (i.e. the same code is used to edit file names and that is robust). -ESRU -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070131/4bf7c3dd/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Wed Jan 31 13:48:58 2007 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand (clcv10)) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 13:48:58 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] An ESP-r feature (arriving soon) Message-ID: You might remember that a few months ago a facility was added to allow a user to import air flow and casual gain schedules from an existing zone in the model as new zones were added. That proved to be a time saver - and users who often work on a particular building type might have generated a number of useful and well tested air flow and casual gain schedules (e.g. for a simi-private hospital room or a conference room for a dozen people). And it is a hassle to access such information and include it in new models so the data gets regenerated (costing time and introducing potential errors).... So, I am testing code that looks in a standard folder for operation files which hold useful/trusted patterns and allows you to check if they are relevant and then import air flows and/or casual gains into you model. The initial version will have a few place holder operations files. Users can then populate the 'pattern' folder with new files of their choice. And, IMAGINE, if people in the ESP-r community contributed high quality, trusted, well documented files HOW the standard distribution would come with a substantial resource! Send your files (with some notes) to jon at esru.strath.ac.uk -Jon Hand From Martin.Bartak at fs.cvut.cz Wed Jan 31 19:03:56 2007 From: Martin.Bartak at fs.cvut.cz (Martin Bartak) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 20:03:56 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] how to unlock X-server in cygwin Message-ID: <45C0F62B.29423.2458795@bartak.fsinet.fsid.cvut.cz> This might be useful for those using Cygwin on Windows XP in a multi-user environment. On a PC/WinXP with several users who have different privileges you might face a problem with locked X-server. I have recently installed Cygwin v.1.5.23 and found that X-Win.exe (invoked by the `startx? command) did not work for users who were logged in one after another. The reason is that Cygwin puts a lock on the X-server and prevents another user to start it later on. The lock is named X0 and is in /tmp/.X11-unix (in Cygwin) or C:\cygwin\tmp\.X11-unix (in Windows). The directory has a sticky bit and X0 cannot be re-written or deleted by a user who is not an owner of the lock. The lock persists after its owner has logged out. To solve the problem without digging into the system too much, you can add just one line at the end of the file `cygwin.bat? which invokes Cygwin (i.e. the black window). The last line should be: rm -f /tmp/.X11-unix/X0 The only condition for a proper function of the above is that everyone logs out from Cygwin by typing `exit? in the black window. Clicking on the cross in the upper right corner is not enough. In the case of a crash, the lock can be still removed just by starting and exiting Cygwin in a standard way (of course done by the user who owns the lock). Regards, Martin ======================================= Martin Bartak Czech Technical University in Prague Dept. of Environmental Engineering U-12116, Technicka 4 166 07 Praha 6, Czech Republic phone: +420-22435-2486 fax: +420-22435-5606 e-mail: martin.bartak at fs.cvut.cz From g.ulukavak.harputlugil at gmail.com Wed Jan 31 19:51:38 2007 From: g.ulukavak.harputlugil at gmail.com (Gulsu Ulukavak Harputlugil) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 21:51:38 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] g-value analysis Message-ID: hi, for a sensitivity analysis, one of my parameter is g-value of glazing. But I could not modify "only" g-value to check its effect on energy consumption in Esp-r v.11.2.I could be able to make visible transmittance modification and u-value modification of glazing separately. If I am not wrong there was a discussion held about g-value before here in this list. Will you remind me if this subject is explained before? Moreover will someone explain me calculation procedure of heat gain from glazings in Esp-r? (specific question is: how is g-value calculated for a particular glazing in Esp-r and when/where is g-value used in calculations?) Thanks in advance. Gulsu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070131/21dbdaeb/attachment.html From Gunter.Pueltz at MuellerBBM.de Thu Feb 1 07:20:45 2007 From: Gunter.Pueltz at MuellerBBM.de (Pueltz, Gunter) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 08:20:45 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: g-value analysis Message-ID: <2417729F3416D511A27E0090273A963B027870DC@smex01.mbbm.de> Gulsu, the problem in ESP-r is that the g-value is not calculated (and used) explecitly. A more sophisticated model is used: 1-D-finite differences together with heat sources in the glaz panes; the heat source is the absorption of solar radiation within the glaz panes. But nevertheless you could get a g-value from the results library (varying with time) in the following way: In common the g-value shows two parts: The transmission of solar radiation and the so called secondary heat gain, which represents the heatflux from the inner surface of the glazing into the room. The sum of solar radiation transmission and secondary heat flux is the g-value. In ESP-r the solar radiation transmission is calculated depending on the angle of incidence of the sun (based on the values given in the optics-lib). The problem is that ESP only calculates the entering solar radiation as the sum over all glazing (see toggle solar process in the res-modul). So you can use this value for solar radiation transmission for the first part of the g-value only if you have one single window - otherwise you have to splitt this value in several parts and assign them to the different glazings. And be aware that this value varies with time - as the sun is changing it?s incidence angle during day ..... The second part of the g-value - the secondary heat gain - must also be extracted a little bit elaborately: You have to look at the surface balance of the glazing (inner surface towards the room) and the sum of convective and longwave radiative heatflux is the secondary heat flux of the g-value. But be aware that this heat fluxes also vary with time, as the absorption of solar radiation within the glaz panes varies with time (again corresponding to the incident angle of the sun) and also the convective and radiative heat fluxes into the room vary with time, corresponding to cooling, internal heat gains, etc. Overall you can get a variable g-value for your glazing, which is a little bit elaborately to calculate. Thus you might ask the ESP development team to include an additional output - the g-value - for each glazing in future versions of ESP-r. -Gunter -------------------------------------------- Dr.-Ing. Gunter P?ltz M?ller-BBM GmbH Robert-Koch-Str. 11 82152 Planegg bei M?nchen Telefon +49 (89) 85602-336 Telefax +49 (89) 85602-111 http://www.mbbm.de email:plz at mbbm.de -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk]On Behalf Of Gulsu Ulukavak Harputlugil Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 8:52 PM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] g-value analysis hi, for a sensitivity analysis, one of my parameter is g-value of glazing. But I could not modify "only" g-value to check its effect on energy consumption in Esp-r v.11.2.I could be able to make visible transmittance modification and u-value modification of glazing separately. If I am not wrong there was a discussion held about g-value before here in this list. Will you remind me if this subject is explained before? Moreover will someone explain me calculation procedure of heat gain from glazings in Esp-r? (specific question is: how is g-value calculated for a particular glazing in Esp-r and when/where is g-value used in calculations?) Thanks in advance. Gulsu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070201/4f59e483/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Thu Feb 1 10:29:01 2007 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand (clcv10)) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 10:29:01 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: g-value analysis In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: A recent question about the 'g' value of a transparent construction. > for a sensitivity analysis, one of my parameter is g-value of > glazing. But I could not modify "only" g-value to check its effect > on energy consumption in Esp-r v.11.2.I could be able to make > visible transmittance modification and u-value modification of > glazing separately. If I am not wrong there was a discussion held > about g-value before here in this list. Will you remind me if this > subject is explained before? > Moreover will someone explain me calculation procedure of heat gain > from glazings in Esp-r? (specific question is: how is g-value > calculated for a particular glazing in Esp-r and when/where is g- > value used in calculations?) > In ESP-r a 'g' value is a "derived value" which is partly based on information held in the databases and some information specified by the user. The user is asked for data that is not yet held in our databases but which is required for the g-value report calculation. The calculations for the 'g' value reported are based on the specifications of EN 410:1998. And it does not have any part within an ESP-r simulation (those who have read the EN 410 document might notice that it takes a number of interesting liberties with the physics). To do a sensitivity study you need to alter the thermophysical and optical parameters actually used by ESP-r and then re-generate the g value report. -ESRU From Gunter.Pueltz at MuellerBBM.de Thu Feb 1 11:02:15 2007 From: Gunter.Pueltz at MuellerBBM.de (Pueltz, Gunter) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 12:02:15 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: g-value analysis Message-ID: <2417729F3416D511A27E0090273A963B027870DF@smex01.mbbm.de> Jon, you are right that the g-value is defined in EN 410 - but only for GLAZINGS and NORMAL incidence of solar radiation !!!!!! This restricted definition is not valid for a complete facade and different incident angles. The g-value can also be defined more commonly for the complete facade (which means for the combination of glazing AND shading) as the ratio from external incident solar radiation to internal solar heat gain in the room. You can take a look on these definitions in EN 13363-2 or - most accurate - in ISO 15099. As the sun azimut and elevation varies during day, the g-value varies also of course. As I mailed to ESRU some years ago I think it would be helpfull, if ESP-r would have an additional output parameter: The time row for the variable g-value (commonly defined as ratio of incident solar radiation to internal heat gain (= sum of solar radiation transmission and convective and radiative heat flux into the room)) for each glazing in the simulation model. -Gunter > -----Original Message----- > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk > [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk]On Behalf Of Jon > Hand (clcv10) > Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 11:29 AM > To: Gulsu Ulukavak Harputlugil > Cc: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Subject: [esp-r] Re: g-value analysis > > > > A recent question about the 'g' value of a transparent construction. > > > for a sensitivity analysis, one of my parameter is g-value of > > glazing. But I could not modify "only" g-value to check its effect > > on energy consumption in Esp-r v.11.2.I could be able to make > > visible transmittance modification and u-value modification of > > glazing separately. If I am not wrong there was a discussion held > > about g-value before here in this list. Will you remind me if this > > subject is explained before? > > Moreover will someone explain me calculation procedure of > heat gain > > from glazings in Esp-r? (specific question is: how is g-value > > calculated for a particular glazing in Esp-r and when/where is g- > > value used in calculations?) > > > > In ESP-r a 'g' value is a "derived value" which is partly based on > information > held in the databases and some information specified by the user. The > user is asked for data that is not yet held in our databases but > which is > required for the g-value report calculation. > > The calculations for the 'g' value reported are based on the > specifications of > EN 410:1998. And it does not have any part within an ESP-r simulation > (those who have read the EN 410 document might notice that it > takes a > number > of interesting liberties with the physics). > > To do a sensitivity study you need to alter the thermophysical and > optical parameters > actually used by ESP-r and then re-generate the g value report. > > -ESRU > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > From woehrle at umt-ulm.de Mon Feb 5 17:15:37 2007 From: woehrle at umt-ulm.de (=?ISO-8859-15?Q?Heiko_W=F6hrle?=) Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2007 18:15:37 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] TMC-change for internal surfaces Message-ID: <45C76639.8070106@umt-ulm.de> Hello, i'm trying to apply a changing TMC to a transparent, internal surface (i.e. Office Window to Atrium). irrespective the chosen control method (radiation, temperature, time) the TMC-properties of the surface won't switch (=radiation from adjacent keeps always the same). Is it possible that changing TMCs can only be applied to exterior surfaces? And if so, what would be a appropriate workaround? Best regards, Heiko From p_karava at alcor.concordia.ca Mon Feb 5 18:13:01 2007 From: p_karava at alcor.concordia.ca (p_karava at alcor.concordia.ca) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 13:13:01 -0500 (EST) Subject: [esp-r] [Fwd: schedule for the thermal mass Message-ID: <3172.132.205.40.128.1170699181.squirrel@webmail.concordia.ca> Dear all, I am developing a model for a storage room, which is filled with cans of milk; this adds a thermal mass which changes with time (people come in to add or remove cans). I was wondering if there is a way to have a schedule for the thermal mass in ESP-r. Many thanks in advance Panagiota From f.duran.04 at cantabgold.net Mon Feb 5 18:57:46 2007 From: f.duran.04 at cantabgold.net (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Felipe_Dur=E1n?=) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 15:57:46 -0300 Subject: [esp-r] ESP-r on intel-based mac Message-ID: Dear all, I would like to know if the osx version of esp-r runs on an intel- based mac. I`ve been trying to install it under X11 with no luck. Is it better to install it under Windows via Boot Camp. Many Thanks Felipe Dur?n Palma DA4 Arquitectos Obispo Donoso 5 oficina 62-Providencia 56-2-3431868 - 92192551 fduran at cantab.net www.da4.cl ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070205/ce47d5b3/attachment-0001.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: pastedGraphic.tiff Type: image/tiff Size: 48746 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070205/ce47d5b3/attachment-0001.tiff From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Tue Feb 6 12:48:25 2007 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand (clcv10)) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 12:48:25 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] found that irritating glitch when editing vertices in Native Windows Version of ESP-r Message-ID: <329AA8F2-4CE1-4CC2-9069-FCB9EF3FF3E6@esru.strath.ac.uk> Those of you who have been frustrated when editing multiple numbers (e.g. the X Y Z co-ordinates of a surface vertex) in the Native Windows version of ESP-r .......drum roll......tracked down the problem and have just spent a not-at-all frustrating session tweaking vertex positions in several models with the same ease as has been possible in the Cygwin version and the MacOSX version and the Linux version. The interface also now provides a clue as to how much text can be edited when the dialog box happens to be wider than the text to be edited. The gory details - in the case of editing those three numbers the string buffer was made a bit bigger and an alternative logic was used to pass back the text edited in the dialog box (deep in the C code) back to the fortran. And of course there might be other dialogs where the string buffer isn't as big as it needs to be for smooth editing so there is a bit more work to be done but at least progress is being made and the next release should be an improvement for all. -Jon Hand (squasher of this bug). From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Tue Feb 6 14:02:14 2007 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand (clcv10)) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 14:02:14 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: ESP-r on intel-based mac In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9F47821D-C289-4A51-B01F-9084B0AC3794@esru.strath.ac.uk> A recent question about ESP-r on an intel-based mac.... > would like to know if the osx version of esp-r runs on an intel- > based mac. I`ve been trying to install it under X11 with no luck. > Is it better to install it under Windows via Boot Camp. There is no pre-compiled version of ESP-r for intel-based macs for the simple reason that ESRU do not have access to such a machine. Conceptually, it should be possible to compile a mind-boggling fast implementation of either the X11 or GTK based versions of ESP-r on an intel-based mac via the same set of tools that are available on the mac and which can be downloaded for free from the web. Note that the code will not take advantage of the dual processors directly. The download page includes some notes about the requirements (e.g. fink and the GCC 3.3 compiler collection and the GTK related libraries and headers. The GCC version 4.0 that comes with OS X 10.4 has not passed the testing we do on ESP-r and we recommend the older GCC compiler. Running dual-boot and having the native Windows version running is an untested option. Probably would work but since ESP-r runs so smoothly on the PPC compiled natively one would speculate that a native compile would have several advantages. Anyone out there who has any experience with an Intel-Mac compile we would love to hear from you. -ESRU From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Tue Feb 6 14:17:36 2007 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand (clcv10)) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 14:17:36 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: [Fwd: schedule for the thermal mass In-Reply-To: <3172.132.205.40.128.1170699181.squirrel@webmail.concordia.ca> References: <3172.132.205.40.128.1170699181.squirrel@webmail.concordia.ca> Message-ID: <729D0606-8AF3-4361-A8C5-C071C6DB34A2@esru.strath.ac.uk> A recent question that we have never been asked before.... > I am developing a model for a storage room, which is filled with > cans of > milk; this adds a thermal mass which changes with time (people come > in to > add or remove cans). I was wondering if there is a way to have a > schedule > for the thermal mass in ESP-r. > The short answer is probably but with some risk. It is possible to define a control that substitutes one construction for another in up to 3 surfaces in a zone (the so-called nested control option). This control is one of the least used and so there is very little experience in the community for its use, particularly in relation to surfaces inside a zone. Energy balance tends to go off into another universe when altering mass (the bookkeeping for the storage in the mass never thought it would have to do such a thing). Approaching this from a different viewpoint - it is possible to fix the heat transfer coefficient for specific surfaces based on a schedule. Would a change in convection at the mass surfaces mimic a change in mass within the zone??? -Jon Hand From gialloneroverde at gmail.com Tue Feb 6 14:29:15 2007 From: gialloneroverde at gmail.com (giulio benincasa) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 15:29:15 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Double skin facade and CFD Message-ID: <67666d10702060629x587b0e62meda2e692946e654c@mail.gmail.com> Hi, i'm trying to simulate a double skin facade ( type corridor facade ) mechanically ventilated; I use for a day period integrated simulate CFD ( conflation 1 thermal) My doubt is: If Convergence has not been achueved after 1000 iterations and I accepted it as converged solution than the results are reliable ? Thank you in advance Best regards Giulio Benincasa -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070206/c477d88f/attachment.html From Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch Tue Feb 6 14:43:30 2007 From: Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch (Geissler Achim) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 15:43:30 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: [Fwd: schedule for the thermal mass References: <3172.132.205.40.128.1170699181.squirrel@webmail.concordia.ca> <729D0606-8AF3-4361-A8C5-C071C6DB34A2@esru.strath.ac.uk> Message-ID: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C0AEB27@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Jon, a thought: ... are internal sinks (negative internal loads) possible? Then it may be possible to define the changes in mass (i.e. either sinks - lower temperature than the indoor air - or sources) via internal load schedules - which should pose no problem to the solver. Achim (P.S.: By the way, I tried compiling on an Intel Mac ... totally without success) > -----Original Message----- > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r- > bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Jon Hand (clcv10) > Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 3:18 PM > To: p_karava at alcor.concordia.ca > Cc: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Subject: [esp-r] Re: [Fwd: schedule for the thermal mass > > > A recent question that we have never been asked before.... > > > I am developing a model for a storage room, which is filled with > > cans of > > milk; this adds a thermal mass which changes with time (people come > > in to > > add or remove cans). I was wondering if there is a way to have a > > schedule > > for the thermal mass in ESP-r. > > > > The short answer is probably but with some risk. > > It is possible to define a control > that substitutes one construction for another in up to 3 surfaces > in a zone (the so-called nested control option). This control > is one of the least used and so there is very little experience > in the community for its use, particularly in relation to surfaces > inside a zone. > > Energy balance tends to go off into another universe > when altering mass (the bookkeeping for the storage in the > mass never thought it would have to do such a thing). > > Approaching this from a different viewpoint - it is possible to > fix the heat transfer coefficient for specific surfaces based on > a schedule. Would a change in convection at the mass surfaces > mimic a change in mass within the zone??? > > -Jon Hand > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From Gunter.Pueltz at MuellerBBM.de Tue Feb 6 16:26:15 2007 From: Gunter.Pueltz at MuellerBBM.de (Pueltz, Gunter) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 17:26:15 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Validation of ESP-r according to prEN 15255 Message-ID: <2417729F3416D511A27E0090273A963B02787106@smex01.mbbm.de> Dear ESP-Users, does anyone know wether ESP-r has been validated according to the EUROPEAN standard prEN 15255:2005 Thermal performance of buildings - sensible room cooling load calculation - general criteria and validation procedures ??? Any information about this topic is appreciated. Regards, Gunter -------------------------------------------- Dr.-Ing. Gunter P?ltz M?ller-BBM GmbH Robert-Koch-Str. 11 82152 Planegg bei M?nchen Telefon +49 (89) 85602-336 Telefax +49 (89) 85602-111 http://www.mbbm.de email:plz at mbbm.de From Monika.Hall at josef-gartner.ch Wed Feb 7 07:22:08 2007 From: Monika.Hall at josef-gartner.ch (Hall Monika) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 08:22:08 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Double skin facade and CFD References: <67666d10702060629x587b0e62meda2e692946e654c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C0AEB78@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Hi Giulio, when a CFD-calculation starts, you can accept the solution as convergend by the first time steps. Afterwards the convergence should be found automatically. In a 24-hour simulation the influence of the first minutes are negligible. In general CFD has difficulties to convergent if there are much changes in the model and this is in the start phase. Additionally you can reduce the time of the timesteps or/and change the residuals. Regards Monika ________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of giulio benincasa Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 3:29 PM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Double skin facade and CFD Hi, i'm trying to simulate a double skin facade ( type corridor facade ) mechanically ventilated; I use for a day period integrated simulate CFD ( conflation 1 thermal) My doubt is: If Convergence has not been achueved after 1000 iterations and I accepted it as converged solution than the results are reliable ? Thank you in advance Best regards Giulio Benincasa -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070207/28a39af2/attachment.html From jerome_conraud at yahoo.ca Wed Feb 7 17:25:24 2007 From: jerome_conraud at yahoo.ca (Jerome Conraud-Bianchi) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 09:25:24 -0800 (PST) Subject: [esp-r] Error using Radiance for simulations Message-ID: <654770.67665.qm@web60920.mail.yahoo.com> Dear all, I am writing because I tried and ran one of the exemplars to calculate daylight factors and illuminances (under the window and daylight category) and I encountered the following problem (as per the terminal window): NEWPRB browse status is F e2r -file coupling.cfg -purpose Coupling -zone 1 -act .2891.dat -mode text ESP-r - Radiance: Version 3.16a of January 2006. Copyright 2001-6 Energy Systems Research Unit, University of Strathclyde, Glasgow Scotland. (currently: coupling.cfg) Model configuration file? fmt: end of file apparent state: unit 5 (unnamed) last format: (A144) lately reading sequential formatted external IO Would any of you understand what it means, and in this case, could you tell me how to solve it? Thank you in advance. Jerome J?r?me Conraud Bianchi M.A.Sc. Student in Building Engineering Concordia University (Montreal-QC-Canada) cellulaire/cell:: (514) 554-1862 travail/work: (514) 848-2424 poste/ext. 7527 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070207/62eee31a/attachment.html From paul at esru.strath.ac.uk Thu Feb 8 16:29:30 2007 From: paul at esru.strath.ac.uk (paul strachan) Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2007 16:29:30 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Validation of ESP-r according to prEN 15255 Message-ID: <45CB4FEA.3070905@esru.strath.ac.uk> Dear Gunter, ESRU carried out some work for BRE on several of these tests a few years ago when they were being developed. This mainly involved parametric variations on some of the input assumptions. However, as far as I know, no-one has yet run through all the tests in the published standard, prEN15255, although we hope to do so in the coming months. Regards Paul > Dear ESP-Users, > > does anyone know wether ESP-r has been validated > according to the EUROPEAN standard prEN 15255:2005 > Thermal performance of buildings - > sensible room cooling load calculation - > general criteria and validation procedures ??? > > Any information about this topic is appreciated. > > Regards, > Gunter -- *************************************************************** Dr P A Strachan email: paul at esru.strath.ac.uk ESRU, Dept. of Mechanical Eng. phone: +44 141 548 2041 University of Strathclyde fax: +44 141 552 5105 Glasgow G1 1XJ, UK http://www.esru.strath.ac.uk *************************************************************** From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Thu Feb 8 16:38:03 2007 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand (clcv10)) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 16:38:03 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] beta testers wanted again Message-ID: <470A62F5-FDF4-40B8-9BB3-4AF3AEA991C0@esru.strath.ac.uk> To the ESP-r community.... There have been several hundred source code commits to my branch of the source code repository and it would be good to have some additional pairs of eyes looking at the changes to see if they work on a broader spectrum of machines prior to release. Both the GTK and the X11 version have been the subject of intense effort to make the specification of zone controls clearer and there are additional options for browsing files, especially in the GTK version. There is also an import air and casual gain patterns facility that has been introduced. The pro (event profiles module) has been merged into the project manger and the browsing logic revised. The native windows version gets the same additional browsing capabilities as the other GTK versions and those of you who have cursed loudly when the numbers you have edited have been mis-interpreted will have an easier time of it. Plus there are about 8 new exemplar models, focused primarily on zone control issues. Because I don't use 3-position controls or P+I controls or separate on/off setpoints with cycle time limits all that often it would be great if the new controls were looked at by those who are opinionated. If you would like to participate I have a new single click native windows installer and an installer for the X11 and GTK version running under recent versions of Cygwin that I can upload to you. Linux users should contact me about instructions for getting an export of the relevant source code control repository. If you want a summary of the changes made since November I can provide you with that as well. Your comments would be appreciated. And remember the usual warnings about testing new software and backing up your work. Regards, Jon Hand From lswan at dal.ca Tue Feb 13 16:19:35 2007 From: lswan at dal.ca (Lukas Swan (Dal)) Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 12:19:35 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] prj: segmentation fault Message-ID: <002001c74f8a$d4a988b0$6a56ad81@DHSE4> Hello: I have just downloaded and compiled ESP-r on a FedoraCore 6 OS using g77. It is a dual processor 64bit machine When complied for GTK it works very well When compiled for X11, and I run the command "prj" it briefly opens the project manager window (<<1second) and then says "Segmentation fault" in my terminal This occurs for any of the binaries (e.g. "bps"). Any ideas? I also am running it on a single processor 32bit machine with Fedora Core 6 and the X11 version works fine. Thanks Lukas Swan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070213/c764c2a6/attachment.html From ryan at dwell-vent.com Tue Feb 13 17:00:15 2007 From: ryan at dwell-vent.com (Ryan Southall) Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 17:00:15 -0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: prj: segmentation fault In-Reply-To: <002001c74f8a$d4a988b0$6a56ad81@DHSE4> References: <002001c74f8a$d4a988b0$6a56ad81@DHSE4> Message-ID: It could be that you don't have the bitmap fonts ESP-r requires for X11 mode installed on your system. On Gentoo these fonts are supplied by the 75 and 100 dpi font packages. Don't know what they're called on Fedora though. Ryan On Tue, 13 Feb 2007 16:19:35 -0000, Lukas Swan (Dal) wrote: > Hello: > > I have just downloaded and compiled ESP-r on a FedoraCore 6 OS using g77. > > It is a dual processor 64bit machine > > When complied for GTK it works very well > > When compiled for X11, and I run the command "prj" it briefly opens the > project manager window (<<1second) and then says "Segmentation fault" in > my > terminal > > This occurs for any of the binaries (e.g. "bps"). > > Any ideas? > > > I also am running it on a single processor 32bit machine with Fedora > Core 6 > and the X11 version works fine. > > Thanks > > Lukas Swan > > > -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Wed Feb 14 12:23:43 2007 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand (clcv10)) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 12:23:43 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: prj: segmentation fault In-Reply-To: <002001c74f8a$d4a988b0$6a56ad81@DHSE4> References: <002001c74f8a$d4a988b0$6a56ad81@DHSE4> Message-ID: <341CFF67-EB81-4CFE-9B1F-50A6EF96E740@esru.strath.ac.uk> A recent question about ESP-r and 64 bit compiling..... > I have just downloaded and compiled ESP-r on a FedoraCore 6 OS > using g77. > It is a dual processor 64bit machine > When complied for GTK it works very well > When compiled for X11, and I run the command ?prj? it briefly opens > the project manager window (<<1second) and then says ?Segmentation > fault? in my terminal > This occurs for any of the binaries (e.g. ?bps?). > Any ideas? > > I also am running it on a single processor 32bit machine with > Fedora Core 6 and the X11 version works fine. Testing is underway to ensure that ESP-r works on 64-bit computing platforms. At this point there are numerical issues with 64-bit environments which have yet to be resolved. There is not yet a consensus in the ESP-r development community to recommend using ESP-r on 64 bit platforms. Previous posts have also talked about work underway to prove that the newest GCC compilers (4.1.1 onwards) pass the validation tests. It should be possible for someone who has a 64 bit platform to Install esp-r with debugging on and to run the executable within a debugging environment such as gdb or ddd and track down the location where the segementation falult is happening. -ESRU -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070214/76ff3448/attachment.html From driessea at post.queensu.ca Wed Feb 14 14:56:01 2007 From: driessea at post.queensu.ca (Anton Driesse) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 09:56:01 -0500 Subject: [esp-r] Re: prj: segmentation fault In-Reply-To: <341CFF67-EB81-4CFE-9B1F-50A6EF96E740@esru.strath.ac.uk> References: <002001c74f8a$d4a988b0$6a56ad81@DHSE4> <341CFF67-EB81-4CFE-9B1F-50A6EF96E740@esru.strath.ac.uk> Message-ID: <45D32301.1040006@post.queensu.ca> Hi, I'm just in the process of installing on a Sunblade 2500 with 64-bit SPARC processors. Am I asking for trouble? I don't really have the time or expertise for debuggging right now. Any advice? Best regards, Anton On 14-Feb-2007 7:23 AM, Jon Hand (clcv10) wrote: > > A recent question about ESP-r and 64 bit compiling..... > >> I have just downloaded and compiled ESP-r on a FedoraCore 6 OS using g77. >> It is a dual processor 64bit machine >> When complied for GTK it works very well >> When compiled for X11, and I run the command ?prj? it briefly opens >> the project manager window (<<1second) and then says ?Segmentation >> fault? in my terminal >> This occurs for any of the binaries (e.g. ?bps?). >> Any ideas? >> >> >> >> I also am running it on a single processor 32bit machine with Fedora >> Core 6 and the X11 version works fine. > > Testing is underway to ensure that ESP-r works on 64-bit computing > platforms. > At this point there are numerical issues with 64-bit environments which > have > yet to be resolved. There is not yet a consensus in the ESP-r > development community > to recommend using ESP-r on 64 bit platforms. > > Previous posts have also talked about work underway to prove that the newest > GCC compilers (4.1.1 onwards) pass the validation tests. > > It should be possible for someone who has a 64 bit platform to Install > esp-r with debugging on and to run the executable within a debugging > environment > such as gdb or ddd and track down the location where the segementation > falult is happening. > > -ESRU > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Wed Feb 14 15:39:54 2007 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand (clcv10)) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 15:39:54 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: prj: segmentation fault In-Reply-To: <45D32301.1040006@post.queensu.ca> References: <002001c74f8a$d4a988b0$6a56ad81@DHSE4> <341CFF67-EB81-4CFE-9B1F-50A6EF96E740@esru.strath.ac.uk> <45D32301.1040006@post.queensu.ca> Message-ID: A question about compiling on Sun equipment. Most recent Solaris boxes have been 64 bit for 4-5 years although user space has tended to be 32 bit. Sun has tended to have good 64 bit support. The GTK version of ESP-r has, in the past been flakey on Solaris F90 and for the last year the Install script has directed users to the X11 version. There is a simple test set in the validation/benchmark/QA/mode/cfg/TEST which can be run and there are a number of archives of previous test outputs in validation/benchmark/QA We would be interested in what you find. -ESRU From driessea at post.queensu.ca Wed Feb 14 16:22:00 2007 From: driessea at post.queensu.ca (Anton Driesse) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 11:22:00 -0500 Subject: [esp-r] Re: prj: segmentation fault In-Reply-To: References: <002001c74f8a$d4a988b0$6a56ad81@DHSE4> <341CFF67-EB81-4CFE-9B1F-50A6EF96E740@esru.strath.ac.uk> <45D32301.1040006@post.queensu.ca> Message-ID: <45D33728.5090701@post.queensu.ca> Hi Jon, I'm not sure how to interpret your response. I'm definitely not ready to start experimenting here. Can I compile and run in 32 bit mode or something like that and avoid the "flakey" behaviour and uncertainties? Regards, Anton On 14-Feb-2007 10:39 AM, Jon Hand (clcv10) wrote: > A question about compiling on Sun equipment. > > Most recent Solaris boxes have been 64 bit for 4-5 years although > user space has tended to be 32 bit. Sun has tended to have good 64 > bit support. > > The GTK version of ESP-r has, in the past been flakey on Solaris F90 > and for > the last year the Install script has directed users to the X11 version. > > There is a simple test set in the validation/benchmark/QA/mode/cfg/TEST > which can be run and there are a number of archives of previous test > outputs > in validation/benchmark/QA > > We would be interested in what you find. > > -ESRU > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > From lswan at dal.ca Wed Feb 14 22:59:28 2007 From: lswan at dal.ca (Lukas Swan (Dal)) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 18:59:28 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] Re: prj: segmentation fault In-Reply-To: <341CFF67-EB81-4CFE-9B1F-50A6EF96E740@esru.strath.ac.uk> Message-ID: <00bf01c7508b$cb371750$6a56ad81@DHSE4> Hi: I checked both suggestions- 75 and 100 dpi bitmap fonts are installed. Then I compiled with ---debug support. I ran the "prj" using the "gdb" program and it said: (no debugging signals found) Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault. 0x00000000007db4b7 in f_exit () Does this mean anything to you Jon? Thanks Lukas Swan _____ From: Jon Hand (clcv10) [mailto:jon at esru.strath.ac.uk] Sent: February 14, 2007 8:24 AM To: Lukas Swan ((Dal)) Cc: esp-r list Subject: Re: [esp-r] prj: segmentation fault A recent question about ESP-r and 64 bit compiling..... I have just downloaded and compiled ESP-r on a FedoraCore 6 OS using g77. It is a dual processor 64bit machine When complied for GTK it works very well When compiled for X11, and I run the command "prj" it briefly opens the project manager window (<<1second) and then says "Segmentation fault" in my terminal This occurs for any of the binaries (e.g. "bps"). Any ideas? I also am running it on a single processor 32bit machine with Fedora Core 6 and the X11 version works fine. Testing is underway to ensure that ESP-r works on 64-bit computing platforms. At this point there are numerical issues with 64-bit environments which have yet to be resolved. There is not yet a consensus in the ESP-r development community to recommend using ESP-r on 64 bit platforms. Previous posts have also talked about work underway to prove that the newest GCC compilers (4.1.1 onwards) pass the validation tests. It should be possible for someone who has a 64 bit platform to Install esp-r with debugging on and to run the executable within a debugging environment such as gdb or ddd and track down the location where the segementation falult is happening. -ESRU -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070214/8fb25e8c/attachment-0001.html From Bjorn.J.Wachenfeldt at sintef.no Thu Feb 15 12:18:31 2007 From: Bjorn.J.Wachenfeldt at sintef.no (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Wachenfeldt_Bj=F8rn_Jenssen?=) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 13:18:31 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Night purge or ambient air ventilation scheme References: <002001c74f8a$d4a988b0$6a56ad81@DHSE4><341CFF67-EB81-4CFE-9B1F-50A6EF96E740@esru.strath.ac.uk><45D32301.1040006@post.queensu.ca> Message-ID: <219FE8683CD74F489608E7F616CFD823F965A7@SINTEFXCH01.sintef.no> Hello Jon, and other Esp-r developers/users A while ago, you sent an e-mail on the esp-r list about how to implement a night purge ventilation scheme. The purpose is typically to investigate night cooling strategies based on natural ventilation or mechanical supply of unconditioned ambient air. The problem is that the method is based on a controller sensing Delta T between inside and outside temperature, and that this control option is not available in the project manager for ESP-r version 10.12 or 11.2. I have a vague memory of having seen this control option in some other version though, and I also remember that there has been som discussion about implementing more advanced control options (allowing for multiple checks of type: if (Troom>Tcooling setpoint) and (Tamb Hi, I have make a simulation with conflation method of double skin facade mechanically ventilated; the time period is ten hours and the time step is one minute; the results seem to be satisfy (..for me ) but I have a notice a unexpected difficulty to store CFD results: the folder CFG of my project store at most automatically 100 graphs then ask me "if I want to overwrite on foregoing graph" ; -- if I dont overwrite then I must write another 500 name of graph.. multiply for the number interest variable ...multiply for vary grid position ....it become hard working --if I store the results from one hour to one hour ( I wish convey really this): I have notice that lose one's way the simulation results ( all same graph) except in the first 100 minutes; There is anybody that has notice the same difficulty ? And there is any solution ? Thank you very munch in advance, Best regards Giulio -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070215/641e2b1c/attachment.html From Bjorn.J.Wachenfeldt at sintef.no Thu Feb 15 13:22:16 2007 From: Bjorn.J.Wachenfeldt at sintef.no (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Wachenfeldt_Bj=F8rn_Jenssen?=) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 14:22:16 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Night purge or ambient air ventilation scheme References: <002001c74f8a$d4a988b0$6a56ad81@DHSE4><341CFF67-EB81-4CFE-9B1F-50A6EF96E740@esru.strath.ac.uk><45D32301.1040006@post.queensu.ca> <219FE8683CD74F489608E7F616CFD823F965A7@SINTEFXCH01.sintef.no> Message-ID: <219FE8683CD74F489608E7F616CFD823F965A9@SINTEFXCH01.sintef.no> Found that the option in fact was available in the project manager menu under "sensing flow node or connection". Anyway it would be interesting to know if somebody currently is working on improving the control-options in ESP-r, or is plannig to do so. Regards, Bj?rn J. Wachenfeldt -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk on behalf of Wachenfeldt Bj?rn Jenssen Sent: Thu 2/15/2007 1:18 PM To: esp-r list; jon Cc: Rasmus H?seggen Subject: [esp-r] Night purge or ambient air ventilation scheme Hello Jon, and other Esp-r developers/users A while ago, you sent an e-mail on the esp-r list about how to implement a night purge ventilation scheme. The purpose is typically to investigate night cooling strategies based on natural ventilation or mechanical supply of unconditioned ambient air. The problem is that the method is based on a controller sensing Delta T between inside and outside temperature, and that this control option is not available in the project manager for ESP-r version 10.12 or 11.2. I have a vague memory of having seen this control option in some other version though, and I also remember that there has been som discussion about implementing more advanced control options (allowing for multiple checks of type: if (Troom>Tcooling setpoint) and (Tamb Message-ID: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C0AF1D1@sgartgum1.gart.intra> ... some additional information (to my earlier post ... if the list moderator approves of it) ... A short description of some changes I did. All changes but one concern CFD, the main ones concern output to TECPlot. General: esrudfs/cfcalc.f: two issues, one purely cosmetic, in lines 331 / 332 we prefer NPLT=MAXIT/100 and MAXIT,100, respectively. For calculations spanning more than one time step, the minimum iteration number can be lower in our opinion: Line 519 NITER.LT.5 (or even LT.2). TECPlot: Attached are changed files esrudfs/cfutil.f and dfs.f and esrures/mocfd.f. My changes are headed with "Cag at 241106" so can be easily found. The change in tecplotend() is addition of parameter "Timestep", elimination of entry of file name for each time step (the automatically generated file name is not nice and should be rewritten to avoid whitespace in the filename ...) and, most important, eliminate the extra cells that the TecPlot output somehow has. The changes are admittedly somewhat 'quick and dirty'. However, if the mesh size is reasonably small near interesting surfaces, no relevant information should be lost, usually. ________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of giulio benincasa Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 1:52 PM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] CFD results and one minute time step Hi, I have make a simulation with conflation method of double skin facade mechanically ventilated; the time period is ten hours and the time step is one minute; the results seem to be satisfy (..for me ) but I have a notice a unexpected difficulty to store CFD results: the folder CFG of my project store at most automatically 100 graphs then ask me "if I want to overwrite on foregoing graph" ; -- if I dont overwrite then I must write another 500 name of graph.. multiply for the number interest variable ...multiply for vary grid position ....it become hard working --if I store the results from one hour to one hour ( I wish convey really this): I have notice that lose one's way the simulation results ( all same graph) except in the first 100 minutes; There is anybody that has notice the same difficulty ? And there is any solution ? Thank you very munch in advance, Best regards Giulio -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070215/685c21c2/attachment.html From ibeausol at NRCan.gc.ca Thu Feb 15 14:01:07 2007 From: ibeausol at NRCan.gc.ca (Beausoleil-Morrison, Ian) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 09:01:07 -0500 Subject: [esp-r] Re: CFD results and one minute time step In-Reply-To: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C0AF1D1@sgartgum1.gart.intra> References: <67666d10702150452v8c425ebg5a63a9cc8112f67d@mail.gmail.com> <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C0AF1D1@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Message-ID: Dear Achim and other ESP-r users/developers, Last year we created ESP-r Central, a source code repository for ESP-r. This was created to allow developers to manage their source code changes to ESP-r and to facilitate the contribution of their code into the general release of the program. Please refer to http://www.esru.strath.ac.uk/Programs/ESP-r_central.htm for more information. We can create developer-specific sub-branches in ESP-r for the type of code contribution outlined below. And when this code is ready to be merged into the general release of ESP-r, there are a set of procedures in place to handle this. Regards, - Ian ________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Geissler Achim Sent: February 15, 2007 08:50 To: giulio benincasa; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Re: CFD results and one minute time step ... some additional information (to my earlier post ... if the list moderator approves of it) ... A short description of some changes I did. All changes but one concern CFD, the main ones concern output to TECPlot. General: esrudfs/cfcalc.f: two issues, one purely cosmetic, in lines 331 / 332 we prefer NPLT=MAXIT/100 and MAXIT,100, respectively. For calculations spanning more than one time step, the minimum iteration number can be lower in our opinion: Line 519 NITER.LT.5 (or even LT.2). TECPlot: Attached are changed files esrudfs/cfutil.f and dfs.f and esrures/mocfd.f. My changes are headed with "Cag at 241106" so can be easily found. The change in tecplotend() is addition of parameter "Timestep", elimination of entry of file name for each time step (the automatically generated file name is not nice and should be rewritten to avoid whitespace in the filename ...) and, most important, eliminate the extra cells that the TecPlot output somehow has. The changes are admittedly somewhat 'quick and dirty'. However, if the mesh size is reasonably small near interesting surfaces, no relevant information should be lost, usually. ________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of giulio benincasa Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 1:52 PM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] CFD results and one minute time step Hi, I have make a simulation with conflation method of double skin facade mechanically ventilated; the time period is ten hours and the time step is one minute; the results seem to be satisfy (..for me ) but I have a notice a unexpected difficulty to store CFD results: the folder CFG of my project store at most automatically 100 graphs then ask me "if I want to overwrite on foregoing graph" ; -- if I dont overwrite then I must write another 500 name of graph.. multiply for the number interest variable ...multiply for vary grid position ....it become hard working --if I store the results from one hour to one hour ( I wish convey really this): I have notice that lose one's way the simulation results ( all same graph) except in the first 100 minutes; There is anybody that has notice the same difficulty ? And there is any solution ? Thank you very munch in advance, Best regards Giulio From Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch Thu Feb 15 14:25:47 2007 From: Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch (Geissler Achim) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 15:25:47 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: CFD results and one minute time step References: <67666d10702150452v8c425ebg5a63a9cc8112f67d@mail.gmail.com><5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C0AF1D1@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Message-ID: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C0AF1E3@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Dear Ian, as already outlined originally in this same context, we do not have the time / capacity to maintain a developer branch (I am aware of the organization). A well maintained code is definitely in our interest, of course. However, for changes as the ones done, we found checking results against the unchanged code for a few cases sufficient and then used the code. Generally, we will never be able to really dig into the functionality / model level of the code. So, I see three possibilities here: (1) If at any time in the future we are again able to do some small changes and they seem to work and somebody in the list may be able to use them, in future we do not share them (2) We share them in the manner I did with the community ... which can decide what to do with them (3) ESRU or NRC or whoever creates some kind of "basket" for such minor code changes - to which we could / would forward any such small changes we may be able to do - and they are checked / integrated by somebody who does extensive development, anyway, and has all the procedures for validation and whatnot up and running. Best regards, Achim > -----Original Message----- > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r- > bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Beausoleil-Morrison, Ian > Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 3:01 PM > To: ESP-r mailing list > Subject: [esp-r] Re: CFD results and one minute time step > > Dear Achim and other ESP-r users/developers, > > Last year we created ESP-r Central, a source code repository for ESP-r. > This was created to allow developers to manage their source code changes > to ESP-r and to facilitate the contribution of their code into the > general release of the program. Please refer to > http://www.esru.strath.ac.uk/Programs/ESP-r_central.htm for more > information. > > We can create developer-specific sub-branches in ESP-r for the type of > code contribution outlined below. And when this code is ready to be > merged into the general release of ESP-r, there are a set of procedures > in place to handle this. > > Regards, > - Ian > > > > ________________________________ > > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk > [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Geissler Achim > Sent: February 15, 2007 08:50 > To: giulio benincasa; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Subject: [esp-r] Re: CFD results and one minute time step > > > > ... some additional information (to my earlier post ... if the > list moderator approves of it) ... > > > > A short description of some changes I did. All changes but one > concern CFD, the main ones concern output to TECPlot. > > General: > > esrudfs/cfcalc.f: two issues, one purely cosmetic, in lines 331 > / 332 we prefer NPLT=MAXIT/100 and MAXIT,100, respectively. For > calculations spanning more than one time step, the minimum iteration > number can be lower in our opinion: Line 519 NITER.LT.5 (or even LT.2). > > > > TECPlot: > > Attached are changed files esrudfs/cfutil.f and dfs.f and > esrures/mocfd.f. My changes are headed with "Cag at 241106" so can be > easily found. > > The change in tecplotend() is addition of parameter "Timestep", > elimination of entry of file name for each time step (the automatically > generated file name is not nice and should be rewritten to avoid > whitespace in the filename ...) and, most important, eliminate the extra > cells that the TecPlot output somehow has. The changes are admittedly > somewhat 'quick and dirty'. However, if the mesh size is reasonably > small near interesting surfaces, no relevant information should be lost, > usually. > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk > [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of giulio benincasa > Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 1:52 PM > To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Subject: [esp-r] CFD results and one minute time step > > > > Hi, > I have make a simulation with conflation method of double skin > facade mechanically ventilated; > > the time period is ten hours and the time step is one minute; > > the results seem to be satisfy (..for me ) but I have a notice a > unexpected difficulty to store CFD results: > > the folder CFG of my project store at most automatically 100 > graphs then ask me "if I want to overwrite on foregoing graph" ; > > -- if I dont overwrite then I must write another 500 name of > graph.. multiply for the number interest variable ...multiply for vary > grid position ....it become hard working > > --if I store the results from one hour to one hour ( I wish > convey really this): > I have notice that lose one's way the simulation results ( all > same graph) except in the first 100 minutes; > > There is anybody that has notice the same difficulty ? And > there is any solution ? > > Thank you very munch in advance, > Best regards Giulio > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch Thu Feb 15 13:22:58 2007 From: Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch (Geissler Achim) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 14:22:58 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: CFD results and one minute time step References: <67666d10702150452v8c425ebg5a63a9cc8112f67d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C0AF1C8@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Hi Giulio, I am not quite sure that I follow what your problem is, however, I would strongly suggest looking into TecPlot (tell them, I suggested this ...) as a possibility for the postprocessing of (time series of) CFD calculations. And, to somewhat quicken the results file generation, I have patched the code a bit (mainly subroutine tecplotend(TPFRAME) and its call). Usage is on your own risk! I do not take any liability whatsoever! Best regards, Achim ________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of giulio benincasa Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 1:52 PM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] CFD results and one minute time step Hi, I have make a simulation with conflation method of double skin facade mechanically ventilated; the time period is ten hours and the time step is one minute; the results seem to be satisfy (..for me ) but I have a notice a unexpected difficulty to store CFD results: the folder CFG of my project store at most automatically 100 graphs then ask me "if I want to overwrite on foregoing graph" ; -- if I dont overwrite then I must write another 500 name of graph.. multiply for the number interest variable ...multiply for vary grid position ....it become hard working --if I store the results from one hour to one hour ( I wish convey really this): I have notice that lose one's way the simulation results ( all same graph) except in the first 100 minutes; There is anybody that has notice the same difficulty ? And there is any solution ? Thank you very munch in advance, Best regards Giulio -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070215/04278b2e/attachment-0001.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: mocfd.F Type: application/octet-stream Size: 33390 bytes Desc: mocfd.F Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070215/04278b2e/attachment-0003.obj -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: dfs.F Type: application/octet-stream Size: 25241 bytes Desc: dfs.F Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070215/04278b2e/attachment-0004.obj -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: cfutil.F Type: application/octet-stream Size: 13042 bytes Desc: cfutil.F Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070215/04278b2e/attachment-0005.obj From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Thu Feb 15 17:38:52 2007 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 17:38:52 -0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Night purge or ambient air ventilation scheme References: <002001c74f8a$d4a988b0$6a56ad81@DHSE4><341CFF67-EB81-4CFE-9B1F-50A6EF96E740@esru.strath.ac.uk><45D32301.1040006@post.queensu.ca><219FE8683CD74F489608E7F616CFD823F965A7@SINTEFXCH01.sintef.no> <219FE8683CD74F489608E7F616CFD823F965A9@SINTEFXCH01.sintef.no> Message-ID: About night purge ventilation... a number of users have explored this topic in the last few months and I am in the process of distilling what was discovered into one or two exemplar models which implement flow control based on sensing inside and outside temperatures from multiple sensors to actuate a flow component. -Jon Hand -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk on behalf of Wachenfeldt Bj?rn Jenssen Sent: Thu 2/15/2007 1:22 PM To: esp-r list Cc: Rasmus H?seggen Subject: [esp-r] Re: Night purge or ambient air ventilation scheme Found that the option in fact was available in the project manager menu under "sensing flow node or connection". Anyway it would be interesting to know if somebody currently is working on improving the control-options in ESP-r, or is plannig to do so. Regards, Bj?rn J. Wachenfeldt -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk on behalf of Wachenfeldt Bj?rn Jenssen Sent: Thu 2/15/2007 1:18 PM To: esp-r list; jon Cc: Rasmus H?seggen Subject: [esp-r] Night purge or ambient air ventilation scheme Hello Jon, and other Esp-r developers/users A while ago, you sent an e-mail on the esp-r list about how to implement a night purge ventilation scheme. The purpose is typically to investigate night cooling strategies based on natural ventilation or mechanical supply of unconditioned ambient air. The problem is that the method is based on a controller sensing Delta T between inside and outside temperature, and that this control option is not available in the project manager for ESP-r version 10.12 or 11.2. I have a vague memory of having seen this control option in some other version though, and I also remember that there has been som discussion about implementing more advanced control options (allowing for multiple checks of type: if (Troom>Tcooling setpoint) and (Tamb References: <002001c74f8a$d4a988b0$6a56ad81@DHSE4><341CFF67-EB81-4CFE-9B1F-50A6EF96E740@esru.strath.ac.uk><45D32301.1040006@post.queensu.ca><219FE8683CD74F489608E7F616CFD823F965A7@SINTEFXCH01.sintef.no> <219FE8683CD74F489608E7F616CFD823F965A9@SINTEFXCH01.sintef.no> Message-ID: <1130.150.217.0.177.1171618103.squirrel@www.taed.unifi.it> Hello everybody, I need to make a simulation with the localization Firenze, Italy. If you have this weather file, may you please contact me? Thanks a lot in advance, Giuseppina -- Ing. Giuseppina Alcamo Universit? degli Studi di Firenze Centro ABITA via San Niccol? 89a 50125 Firenze tel. +39.055.5048394 fax. +39.0550504839448 email. giuseppina.alcamo at taed.unifi.it From woehrle at umt-ulm.de Fri Feb 16 13:05:20 2007 From: woehrle at umt-ulm.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Heiko_W=F6hrle?=) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 14:05:20 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Florence weather file In-Reply-To: <1130.150.217.0.177.1171618103.squirrel@www.taed.unifi.it> References: <002001c74f8a$d4a988b0$6a56ad81@DHSE4><341CFF67-EB81-4CFE-9B1F-50A6EF96E740@esru.strath.ac.uk><45D32301.1040006@post.queensu.ca><219FE8683CD74F489608E7F616CFD823F965A7@SINTEFXCH01.sintef.no> <219FE8683CD74F489608E7F616CFD823F965A9@SINTEFXCH01.sintef.no> <1130.150.217.0.177.1171618103.squirrel@www.taed.unifi.it> Message-ID: <45D5AC10.4050400@umt-ulm.de> Hi Giuseppina, weather data for many locations can be found on the page of the U.S. Department of Energy in the energyplus-weather-format: http://www.eere.energy.gov/buildings/energyplus/cfm/weather_data.cfm As far as i can remember, the import of epw's is described in the esp-r cookbook. But be careful with the provided data, i'm not sure if it is from measurements or just calculated in some way. I recognized a huge discrepancies in the solar radiation for german locations between the epw's and the data of the german weather information service. best regards, heiko > Hello everybody, > I need to make a simulation with the localization Firenze, Italy. > > If you have this weather file, may you please contact me? > > Thanks a lot in advance, > Giuseppina > > From Monika.Hall at josef-gartner.ch Fri Feb 16 13:06:36 2007 From: Monika.Hall at josef-gartner.ch (Hall Monika) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 14:06:36 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Florence weather file References: <002001c74f8a$d4a988b0$6a56ad81@DHSE4><341CFF67-EB81-4CFE-9B1F-50A6EF96E740@esru.strath.ac.uk><45D32301.1040006@post.queensu.ca><219FE8683CD74F489608E7F616CFD823F965A7@SINTEFXCH01.sintef.no><219FE8683CD74F489608E7F616CFD823F965A9@SINTEFXCH01.sintef.no> <1130.150.217.0.177.1171618103.squirrel@www.taed.unifi.it> Message-ID: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C0AF2A9@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Hi Giuseppina, Weather data are availible under http://www.eere.energy.gov/buildings/energyplus/cfm/weather_data.cfm As I remember you must convert this files in the file type for esp-r. Regards Monika -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Giuseppina Alcamo Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 10:28 AM To: Jon Hand Cc: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Florence weather file Importance: High Hello everybody, I need to make a simulation with the localization Firenze, Italy. If you have this weather file, may you please contact me? Thanks a lot in advance, Giuseppina -- Ing. Giuseppina Alcamo Universit? degli Studi di Firenze Centro ABITA via San Niccol? 89a 50125 Firenze tel. +39.055.5048394 fax. +39.0550504839448 email. giuseppina.alcamo at taed.unifi.it _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From jerome_conraud at yahoo.ca Sat Feb 17 00:32:29 2007 From: jerome_conraud at yahoo.ca (Jerome Conraud-Bianchi) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 16:32:29 -0800 (PST) Subject: [esp-r] Pressure drop at a sudden enlargement in a pipe Message-ID: <664186.92017.qm@web60911.mail.yahoo.com> Dear all, I am trying to represent the pressure drop at a sudden enlargement, in a pipe. The pipe initially has a triangular cross section and then an approximately twice larger square cross section. Would anybody have any advice as to which correlation I should use when I create the component in my airflow network? Thank you in advance. J?r?me Conraud Bianchi M.A.Sc. Student in Building Engineering Concordia University (Montreal-QC-Canada) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070216/30a9ff66/attachment.html From Monika.Hall at josef-gartner.ch Mon Feb 19 14:56:54 2007 From: Monika.Hall at josef-gartner.ch (Hall Monika) Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 15:56:54 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] air flow with constant humidity Message-ID: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C0CB948@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Dear all, I would like to control the humidity of an incoming air flow in a zone. My first approach is to control the humidity with the flow network. I took the air network component no 30 "constant volume flow rate component". But this componet allowes only an input of a constant volume flow. Does anyone know on which humidity the air flow is based? The second approach will be with an additionally zone, which could be humidity controlled and an air flow from this zone to the main zone. I hope that will work. Had anyone done some work with an air flow with a constant humidity into a zone? How is the best practice? Thanks a lot for helping me. Monika -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070219/999572e5/attachment.html From Gunter.Pueltz at MuellerBBM.de Mon Feb 19 15:15:34 2007 From: Gunter.Pueltz at MuellerBBM.de (Pueltz, Gunter) Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 16:15:34 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: air flow with constant humidity Message-ID: <2417729F3416D511A27E0090273A963B02787163@smex01.mbbm.de> Dear Monika, your second approach with an additional zone should work well: I tried it once and succeeded in holding the supply air temperature as well as the humidity of supply air constant by using a zone-control function for this additional zone upstream .... This additional zone upstream might represent the AHU .... For a constant air flow into your zone I recommend an air flow component of constant mass flow component (because the mass balance is solved and a constant volume component might vary a little bit due to varying density ...) between the ahu-zone and your room zone. Do not forget an air opening towards outside for the air flow of ambient air into your AHU ... If you use only a constant air flow unit (without an AHU-zone) the humidity of the incoming air is the same as at the node the air comes from: In most cases the ambient air humidity .... Gunter -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk]On Behalf Of Hall Monika Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 3:57 PM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] air flow with constant humidity Dear all, I would like to control the humidity of an incoming air flow in a zone. My first approach is to control the humidity with the flow network. I took the air network component no 30 "constant volume flow rate component". But this componet allowes only an input of a constant volume flow. Does anyone know on which humidity the air flow is based? The second approach will be with an additionally zone, which could be humidity controlled and an air flow from this zone to the main zone. I hope that will work. Had anyone done some work with an air flow with a constant humidity into a zone? How is the best practice? Thanks a lot for helping me. Monika -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070219/9eab88c7/attachment.html From Monika.Hall at josef-gartner.ch Tue Feb 20 15:43:53 2007 From: Monika.Hall at josef-gartner.ch (Hall Monika) Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 16:43:53 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] heating/cooling control in two different zones but in one model Message-ID: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C0CBA26@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Dear all, did anyone have experience with the zone controller "basic controller for heating/cooling" in two different zones but in one model? My model consists of three zones: one zone has no control and in the other two zones I would like to fix the temperature and humidity (different values in both zones). The three zones are coupled with an air flow network. If I used only for one zone a "basic controller for heating/cooling" and fix the temperature and humidity, the simulation runs. But when I control the second zone with a second "basic controller for heating/cooling" and fixed temperature/humidity, either, the simulation fails with following text: mzpst1: problem with flux assignments Did anyone know the problem? What can I do? Best regards Monika -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070220/1538dd6f/attachment.html From Gunter.Pueltz at MuellerBBM.de Tue Feb 20 15:52:29 2007 From: Gunter.Pueltz at MuellerBBM.de (Pueltz, Gunter) Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 16:52:29 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: heating/cooling control in two different zones but in one model Message-ID: <2417729F3416D511A27E0090273A963B0278716E@smex01.mbbm.de> Dear Monika, you should define a (may be identical) zone control function for every zone, which you want to control. Afterwards you can link each control function ONCE to it?s corresponding zone .... This will work in ESP -r because I did it several times and succeeded ..... Best Regards, Gunter -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk]On Behalf Of Hall Monika Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 4:44 PM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] heating/cooling control in two different zones but in one model Dear all, did anyone have experience with the zone controller "basic controller for heating/cooling" in two different zones but in one model? My model consists of three zones: one zone has no control and in the other two zones I would like to fix the temperature and humidity (different values in both zones). The three zones are coupled with an air flow network. If I used only for one zone a "basic controller for heating/cooling" and fix the temperature and humidity, the simulation runs. But when I control the second zone with a second "basic controller for heating/cooling" and fixed temperature/humidity, either, the simulation fails with following text: mzpst1: problem with flux assignments Did anyone know the problem? What can I do? Best regards Monika -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070220/bd095237/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Tue Feb 20 15:57:59 2007 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand (clcv10)) Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 15:57:59 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: heating/cooling control in two different zones but in one model In-Reply-To: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C0CBA26@sgartgum1.gart.intra> References: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C0CBA26@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Message-ID: <16103FB0-527D-4A35-8E33-D2B568C0459B@esru.strath.ac.uk> A recent question.... > > mzpst1: problem with flux assignments > This error message is printed out if a control actuator does not match the zone that it is used in. An example if the actuator is defined to interact with the 4th zone of a model but the control loop it is associated with is associated with the 3rd zone of the model. The corrective action is to re-assign the actuator location to point to the correct zone. -ESRU -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070220/9e0a7737/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Tue Feb 20 17:08:15 2007 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand (clcv10)) Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 17:08:15 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Pressure drop at a sudden enlargement in a pipe In-Reply-To: <664186.92017.qm@web60911.mail.yahoo.com> References: <664186.92017.qm@web60911.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7B210986-19C4-4BD6-A44C-6201C944F597@esru.strath.ac.uk> A recent question about flow along a conduit that changes shape.... > I am trying to represent the pressure drop at a sudden enlargement, > in a pipe. The pipe initially has a triangular cross section and > then an approximately twice larger square cross section. > This description seems like it would require you to setup a network that included two sequential connections using the general conduit component, in each one your would describe the hydrolic diam, roughness and local loss coefficients. Some transitions are listed in the duct design handbooks as being equivalent to a local loss coefficient and if you find one that is close to your situation then include that local loss coefficient with one of the couduit components. -ESRU -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070220/884dfb19/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Tue Feb 20 17:29:16 2007 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand (clcv10)) Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 17:29:16 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Florence weather file In-Reply-To: <1130.150.217.0.177.1171618103.squirrel@www.taed.unifi.it> References: <002001c74f8a$d4a988b0$6a56ad81@DHSE4><341CFF67-EB81-4CFE-9B1F-50A6EF96E740@esru.strath.ac.uk><45D32301.1040006@post.queensu.ca><219FE8683CD74F489608E7F616CFD823F965A7@SINTEFXCH01.sintef.no> <219FE8683CD74F489608E7F616CFD823F965A9@SINTEFXCH01.sintef.no> <1130.150.217.0.177.1171618103.squirrel@www.taed.unifi.it> Message-ID: <4875F39A-DB88-40EE-B8AE-1A7CE5EC9A4C@esru.strath.ac.uk> The current version of ESP-r is distributed with several climate files for Italy, one of which is Firenze-Peretola, Pisa, Rome. Each of these has already been converted from the available EPW files on the US DoE web site. -ESRU From Monika.Hall at josef-gartner.ch Wed Feb 21 12:00:44 2007 From: Monika.Hall at josef-gartner.ch (Hall Monika) Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 13:00:44 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: heating/cooling control in two different zones but in one model References: <2417729F3416D511A27E0090273A963B0278716E@smex01.mbbm.de> Message-ID: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C0CBA97@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Dear Gunter, dear Jon, thanks for your help. I did a mistake in the link of control function to the corresponding zone. Now it works. Best regards Monika ________________________________ From: Pueltz, Gunter [mailto:Gunter.Pueltz at MuellerBBM.de] Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 4:52 PM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Cc: Hall Monika Subject: RE: [esp-r] heating/cooling control in two different zones but in one model Dear Monika, you should define a (may be identical) zone control function for every zone, which you want to control. Afterwards you can link each control function ONCE to it?s corresponding zone .... This will work in ESP -r because I did it several times and succeeded ..... Best Regards, Gunter -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk]On Behalf Of Hall Monika Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 4:44 PM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] heating/cooling control in two different zones but in one model Dear all, did anyone have experience with the zone controller "basic controller for heating/cooling" in two different zones but in one model? My model consists of three zones: one zone has no control and in the other two zones I would like to fix the temperature and humidity (different values in both zones). The three zones are coupled with an air flow network. If I used only for one zone a "basic controller for heating/cooling" and fix the temperature and humidity, the simulation runs. But when I control the second zone with a second "basic controller for heating/cooling" and fixed temperature/humidity, either, the simulation fails with following text: mzpst1: problem with flux assignments Did anyone know the problem? What can I do? Best regards Monika -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070221/e96374f3/attachment.html From schlitzberger at ibh-hauser.de Wed Feb 21 17:23:29 2007 From: schlitzberger at ibh-hauser.de (Stephan Schlitzberger) Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 18:23:29 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] control bug? Message-ID: <000c01c755dd$018c6520$0132a8c0@fhgzubpc69> Hello esp-r-users, something strange happens to the (weekend-) controls at the beginning of each day (Saturday, Sunday and Monday) . In the picture attached you can see the simulation results of the air temperature of a 100% temperature controlled zone. I used the maximum number of 8 controlperiods for each day type. Each is 3 hours long and controlled by a basic controller for heating/cooling. When you take a look at the picture, you see that at the beginning of each day the first hour during the first determined 3-hour-period from 0.00 to 3.00 doesn?s behave as it shoud. During this first hour you find exactly the temperature belonging to the corresponding control-period from the day before from 0.00 to 3.00. Obviously this behaviour doesn?t occure during weekdays. At the beginning of the 4th day the first 3-hour-period (from 72 to 75) has one constant temperature ??? does anybody know what the reason for this could be, or is it really a bug? Best regards Stephan Schlitzberger -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070221/9b3f5dd2/attachment-0001.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: airtemperature.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 63577 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070221/9b3f5dd2/attachment-0001.jpe From reomiya at korea.com Thu Feb 22 04:29:52 2007 From: reomiya at korea.com (=?ks_c_5601-1987?B?sK2x4rOy?=) Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 13:29:52 +0900 Subject: [esp-r] some question is... Message-ID: Hello My name is kinam kang. I would like to some question. I want to know building through ESP-r about possible zone and node's number when do modeling. Ask reply in early time. My e-mail address is reomiya at korea.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070222/3b0da951/attachment.html From kinokind at hotmail.com Thu Feb 22 05:11:11 2007 From: kinokind at hotmail.com (park dongryul) Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 05:11:11 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] inquires Message-ID: Dear Sir or madam i am a student in Building Technology Unit in Sungkyunkwan Univ. in Korea I am studying stack Effect in high-rise Residential buildings and simulating that by ESP-r lately I got a ploblem with limited numbers of nodes and zones in ESR-r because i needed much more zones and nodes for simulation I would like to ask how I can set more zones and nodes If you know that, please let me know Thank you Dongryul, Park BTU, Sunkyunkwan Univ 082-031-290-7579 kinokind at hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ ?? ?? ??, ?? ?? ??, MSN ???? ?????. http://news.msn.co.kr/ From Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch Thu Feb 22 09:11:24 2007 From: Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch (Geissler Achim) Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 10:11:24 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: inquires References: Message-ID: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C0CBB34@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Dear Park, which "building.h" (src/include) are you using? There are a few titled buildingXX.h in the folder. The one "building62.h" has the highest - intensively tested - number of possible zones / nodes. However, you can change the allowable number in the building.h file and test should you need more. Which variables are to be changed is described in the building.h comments. After changing the values (or renaming / copying building62.h to building.h), you should recompile the full package. Best regards Achim Geissler > -----Original Message----- > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r- > bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of park dongryul > Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007 6:11 AM > To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Subject: [esp-r] inquires > > Dear Sir or madam > > i am a student in Building Technology Unit in Sungkyunkwan Univ. in Korea > I am studying stack Effect in high-rise Residential buildings and > simulating that by ESP-r lately > > I got a ploblem with limited numbers of nodes and zones in ESR-r > because i needed much more zones and nodes for simulation > > I would like to ask how I can set more zones and nodes > > If you know that, please let me know > > Thank you > > > > > Dongryul, Park > > BTU, Sunkyunkwan Univ > 082-031-290-7579 > kinokind at hotmail.com > > _________________________________________________________________ > ?? ?? ??, ?? ?? ??, MSN ???? ?????. > http://news.msn.co.kr/ > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Thu Feb 22 18:54:09 2007 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand (clcv10)) Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 18:54:09 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: control bug? In-Reply-To: <000c01c755dd$018c6520$0132a8c0@fhgzubpc69> References: <000c01c755dd$018c6520$0132a8c0@fhgzubpc69> Message-ID: <6E526306-24C9-49B3-8D47-DE14492F2BDD@esru.strath.ac.uk> A recent question about brief changes in temperature at the start of Saturday, Sunday and Monday. Two model descriptions to check a) is there a big change in schedules of zone ventilation and/or infiltration near midnight or early in the morning b) if the assessment was performed at one timestep per hour try rerunning the simulation but using a shorter timestep such as 4 - 8 timesteps per hour and see if the pattern persists. c) look and see what else is changing at this time of day that could alter the zone air temperature for a brief period at the start of these days. -ESRU From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Fri Feb 23 16:55:41 2007 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand (clcv10)) Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2007 16:55:41 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] New training exercises available for ESP-r Message-ID: For a recent introductory ESP-r workshop a set of 15 detailed exercises have been created and added to the ESRU web site. The exercises complement the ESP-r cookbook are are written assuming no prior dynamic simulation experience. Those of you who are about to start with ESP-r or instructors who are supporting others learning ESP-r might find this useful. Additional exercises are contemplated as well as updates and extensions to the Cookbook. An announcement will be made when these are available. As always I welcome any feedback on how to improve the Cookbook and the exercises. Regards, Jon Hand From esp-r at h-rd.org Mon Feb 26 10:58:21 2007 From: esp-r at h-rd.org (esp-r at h-rd.org) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 11:58:21 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] ESP-r users conference Message-ID: <20070226115821.eugw7nn1fj6040oo@webmail.dds.nl> Dear ESP-r users, The planned date for the ESP-r users conference is coming close. Is there already information on the schedule of the conference available? Is there some "preferred" accommodation? I would like to have more information, before making my bookings and making the final decision to attend. By the way, who is planning to attend? yours, Marc -- Marc Hoffmann esp-r at h-rd.org http://www.h-rd.org From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Mon Feb 26 22:29:17 2007 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 22:29:17 -0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: ESP-r users conference References: <20070226115821.eugw7nn1fj6040oo@webmail.dds.nl> Message-ID: For those of you who missed this announcement. This is a text version of the html message that was posted on the 5th of February. There have been somewhat more than a dozen expressions of interest and no doubt more people will contact us prior to the event. You will not that there are spaces in the form below for those who want to make a short presentation to supply further information. I am out of the office and so I do not have access to accommodation information but if you send a message to Jeremy Cockroft dear everybody We need a linux ancient time version in executing the simulation. We can execute only if we input a word is "./unpackage". Send the total social position fast to me with such ESP-r install program. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070228/88a31419/attachment.html From reomiya at korea.com Wed Feb 28 01:58:19 2007 From: reomiya at korea.com (=?ks_c_5601-1987?B?sK2x4rOy?=) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 10:58:19 +0900 Subject: [esp-r] ***It is question about zone number correction in cygwin.*** Message-ID: ***It is question about zone number correction in cygwin.*** Hello . I am an ordinary student who live in Republic of Korea. It is thing about method which increase zone's number that I wish to get. Through Window xp's Cygwin environment, ask explanation about method that can change. Through Window xp's Cygwin environment, ask explanation about method that can change. In former days, had been possible by correction of building.h file in linux environment. Is hard to find at the version recently. Therefore, if is with former days Esp-r linux version, send. Ask you. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070228/7676b301/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Wed Feb 28 11:11:37 2007 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 11:11:37 -0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: ***It is question about zone number correction in cygwin.*** References: Message-ID: Several users have asked about how ESP-r might be recompiled to support additional zones. The following explanation applies to all versions of ESP-r and to all computer operating systems that ESP-r can be compiled on. In the source distribution there is a folder 'include'. In the include folder there are a number of files which begin with 'building' and end in '.h'. These variants relate to the maximum number of surfaces within each zone e.g. PARAMETER (MS=??) . building42.h has MS=42 surfaces per zone and building 62.h has MS=62. There are other PARAMETERS related to MS which are also changed in the file variants. If you wanted only a maximum of 42 surfaces per zone then the building42.h is copied to building.h prior to recompiling. If what you want to change is the number of zones then you will be interested in the following parameters: PARAMETER (MCOM=28) PARAMETER (MCON=1000) MCOM is the number of zones. MCON is the total number of surfaces allowed in the whole model (number of zones x number of surfaces per zone). If you want to allows 42 zones and up to 42 surfaces per zone then MCOM=42 and MCON=1764. After altering your chosen buillding??.h file copy it to building.h and ensure the source folders have no '.o' files and do a full recompile of the excutables, examples models and databases. After compiling you should test ESP-r on known models to ensure that it is working correctly (gives the same predictions). The usual warnings apply about working with complex models - a model with 2000 surfaces could take four-five times more time and skill to work with than a model with 1000 surfaces. If you are used to models with 250 surfaces, test out your working practices with a model of 500 surfaces and then adjust your working practices as required before attempting additional complexity. -ESRU ::Through Window xp's Cygwin environment, ask explanation about method :: that can change. :: In former days, had been possible by correction of building.h file in :: linux environment. From gialloneroverde at gmail.com Wed Feb 28 18:03:47 2007 From: gialloneroverde at gmail.com (giulio benincasa) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 19:03:47 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Updating my PATH Message-ID: <67666d10702281003k6eb1d37ci3340deee9b3719b9@mail.gmail.com> Hi, I have installeted esp-r by source code in Ubuntu 6.10 system and now I don't be able to updating PATH, it's the last step ; I have understand that I have to modify the file /etc/bash.bashrc and append script with new path .... but where ( in bash.bashrc) I have to append new path? Thank you in advance best regards Giulio -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070228/15012e91/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: bash.bashrc Type: application/octet-stream Size: 1568 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070228/15012e91/attachment.obj From gialloneroverde at gmail.com Thu Mar 1 07:59:29 2007 From: gialloneroverde at gmail.com (giulio benincasa) Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 08:59:29 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Updating my PATH In-Reply-To: <67666d10702281003k6eb1d37ci3340deee9b3719b9@mail.gmail.com> References: <67666d10702281003k6eb1d37ci3340deee9b3719b9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <67666d10702282359x58a97410o1e966134a469c68e@mail.gmail.com> Thank you problem resolved 2007/2/28, giulio benincasa : > > Hi, > > I have installeted esp-r by source code in Ubuntu 6.10 system and now I > don't be able to updating PATH, it's the last step ; > > I have understand that I have to modify the file /etc/bash.bashrc and > append script with new path .... but where ( in bash.bashrc) I have to > append new path? > > > > Thank you in advance > > best regards Giulio > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070301/1a225ee1/attachment.html From gialloneroverde at gmail.com Thu Mar 1 09:55:54 2007 From: gialloneroverde at gmail.com (giulio benincasa) Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 10:55:54 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Bug ? Message-ID: <67666d10703010155m16116a4av7b27a4a1c8242727@mail.gmail.com> Hi, I Have effected a simulation with *CFD* (in *conflation*) for the period start 11 Jul, hr 8.00 end 11 Jul, hr 18.00 *time step 1 minute;* In the module of the CFD results I have corresponded two problems: one pratical and one bad operation ( probably) ; *The first concerns*: In the module of the CFD results select a) name, view position..... b) Image format >> XPM c) create image so graph come to produced name_file__1.xpm ( time 8:01 ) name_file__2.xpm ........ ....... ....... name_file__99.xpm ( time 9:40 ) *till here automatically, then comes me asked for all remaining minutes ( from 9:41 to 18:00)* ** *overwrite image in name_file__.xpm* *or creating new file; * If I overwrite then lose the graph of the minute preceding If I creating a new file then I have to create another 500 *So we go the second problem*: In the CFD results module I select a*) Output period* ((( current result set contains CFD data for the period : 11 Jul, hr 8.00, to 11 Jul, hr 18 ))) I answer Day of month, month and time : 11 7 9:00 Day of month, month and time : 11 7 10.00 then b) view, position... c) Image format>>XPM d)create image but the results are graph all the same; There is anybody that can you help me ? Thank you in advanced Best regards Giulio automatically -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070301/6855416c/attachment.html From aizaz.a.samuel at strath.ac.uk Thu Mar 1 10:27:00 2007 From: aizaz.a.samuel at strath.ac.uk (Aizaz Aamir Samuel) Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 10:27:00 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Bug ? In-Reply-To: <67666d10703010155m16116a4av7b27a4a1c8242727@mail.gmail.com> References: <67666d10703010155m16116a4av7b27a4a1c8242727@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1172744820.45e6aa745dc22@cool.strath.ac.uk> Giulio, One possible way around the first problem without worrying about the innardsd of ESP-r is to break your long simulation time period into hourly intervals. Then you will only get 60 xpm files per simulation and these you can place in separate folders. The second problem is more specific to your model and probably more information is required in order to answer it. One probable cause may be that nothing changes much in one hour of simulation so you get similar or slightly differing results. -Aizaz Quoting giulio benincasa : > Hi, > > I Have effected a simulation with *CFD* (in *conflation*) for the period > > start 11 Jul, hr 8.00 > > end 11 Jul, hr 18.00 > > *time step 1 minute;* > > In the module of the CFD results I have corresponded two problems: > > one pratical and one bad operation ( probably) ; > > *The first concerns*: > > In the module of the CFD results select > > a) name, view position..... > > b) Image format >> XPM > > c) create image > > > so graph come to produced > > name_file__1.xpm ( time 8:01 ) > name_file__2.xpm > ........ > ....... > ....... > name_file__99.xpm ( time 9:40 ) > > *till here automatically, then comes me asked for all remaining minutes ( > from 9:41 to 18:00)* > ** > *overwrite image in name_file__.xpm* > > *or creating new file; * > > If I overwrite then lose the graph of the minute preceding > > If I creating a new file then I have to create another 500 > > *So we go the second problem*: > > In the CFD results module I select > > a*) Output period* > > ((( current result set contains CFD data for the period : 11 Jul, hr 8.00, > to 11 Jul, hr 18 ))) > > I answer > > Day of month, month and time : 11 7 9:00 > Day of month, month and time : 11 7 10.00 > > then > > b) view, position... > > c) Image format>>XPM > > d)create image > > > but the results are graph all the same; > > There is anybody that can you help me ? > > Thank you in advanced > > Best regards Giulio > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > automatically > ***************************** Dr Aizaz A Samuel University of Strathclyde Energy Systems Research Unit James Weir Building 75 Montrose Street Glasgow, UK G1 1XJ Tel +44 141 548 5765 Fax +44 141 552 5105 ***************************** From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Thu Mar 1 12:12:24 2007 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 12:12:24 -0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Bug ? References: <67666d10703010155m16116a4av7b27a4a1c8242727@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: A recent set of questions about generating images of short timestep building with CFD transient analysis.. ::I Have effected a simulation with *CFD* (in *conflation*) for the period ::start 11 Jul, hr 8.00 :: end 11 Jul, hr 18.00 ::*time step 1 minute;* ::I n the module of the CFD results I have corresponded two problems: :: one pratical and one bad operation ( probably) ; This is a great question because up to this point few users have set of frequency of less than 10 minutes for a transient analysis. When we set up the facility we thought that 99 images would be more than enough for the studies that people would want to do (or have the computing power to support). And now people have reached that boundary and it is clear that there is a growing interest in transient CFD analysis with full access to the zone and air flow network state variables for boundary conditions. It is time to look at what the new list limit should be. How long before 500 images is not enough? An array of 500K file names would, I think, be comical. Perhaps there is an alternative approach within the code that does not need to "remember" the names of the images produced? As a pragmatic fix (while waiting for someone to address the coding issue) it is worth asking "who decided that a one minute timestep was required?" How much resolution would be lost if a two or three minute timestep was used? -Jon Hand automatically From dlieberman at exponent.com Thu Mar 1 22:40:27 2007 From: dlieberman at exponent.com (Daniel Lieberman) Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 14:40:27 -0800 Subject: [esp-r] capability questions Message-ID: Hi, I've been considering using esp-r for a mold growth analysis of an office floor. The goal is to monitor the temperature and humidity of the various building finishes over the course of a couple of (simulation) months. I have a couple of questions that I was not able to find answers for on the webpage or in the cookbook. Is it straight forward to design open exterior windows into the building model and prescribe a windy boundary conditions with a given relative humidity? Can the boundary conditions easily be prescribed to vary with time? Can a pool of standing water be specified on the floor? Thanks, Dan Daniel Lieberman, Ph.D. Exponent Failure Analysis Associates -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070301/1d4f873c/attachment.html From ing.wong at ulster.ac.uk Sat Mar 3 02:22:53 2007 From: ing.wong at ulster.ac.uk (Ing Liang Wong) Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2007 02:22:53 -0000 Subject: [esp-r] unrealistic energy demands? Message-ID: <000601c75d3a$d959b610$19873dc1@wongcst> Hi all, I am calculating the annual heating and cooling energy consumption for office buildings in UK climates. The heating and cooling setpoints are 20 and 24 degrees respectively. Internal casual gains from occupants, lighting and electrical equipment are assumed. The U-values for building fabrics are in accordance with the UK building regulations. To my surprise, the results (annual heating and cooling energy consumptions) are around 35 and 16 (in kWh/m2 heated floor area). The values are a bit unrealistic compared to the DETR publication for energy consumption for standard air conditioned office buildings in the UK climates (128-226kWh/m2 for electricity and 97-178kWh/m2 for fossil fuels, or 200-260kWh/m2 for heating and 33-41kWh/m2 for cooling). I had tried different simulations with variable heating and cooling capacities and temperature setpoints, it looks to me that my office building never meet the standard guidelines established by DETR. Anyone had experienced the similar problem before? I am very confused since the results are unrealistic and thus, I find it very difficult to offer any explanation to the simulation results. Maybe some experienced users could shed any light in this case. Thank you. Regards, Wong -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070303/773e65b7/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Sat Mar 3 11:35:06 2007 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2007 11:35:06 -0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: unrealistic energy demands? References: <000601c75d3a$d959b610$19873dc1@wongcst> Message-ID: A recent question about energy demands... ::I am calculating the annual heating and cooling energy consumption for office buildings in UK climates. ::The heating and cooling setpoints are 20 and 24 degrees respectively. Internal casual gains from ::occupants, lighting and electrical equipment are assumed. The U-values for building fabrics are ::in accordance with the UK building regulations. ::To my surprise, the results (annual heating and cooling energy consumptions) are around 35 and 16 ::(in kWh/m2 heated floor area). The values are a bit unrealistic compared to the DETR publication for ::energy consumption for standard air conditioned office buildings in the UK climates (128-226kWh/m2 ::for electricity and 97-178kWh/m2 for fossil fuels, or 200-260kWh/m2 for heating and 33-41kWh/m2 for cooling). ::I had tried different simulations with variable heating and cooling capacities and temperature setpoints, ::it looks to me that my office building never meet the standard guidelines established by DETR. ----------------------- Searching for the causes for unexpected results is sometimes difficult for the author of a model to do (many reasons for this) and ESRU always recommend that someone (else) in the group/company is trained to QA and review models. Often another person will spot in a few minutes what the issue is and sometimes it is subtle and can take hours of effort. In this case someone in the community is asking for help and it will probably require that someone else carefully look at the model. If the model is large. poorly documented and the entities in the model have names that are opaque then this task will be less than pleasant task. There are commercial services that will QA models. And often users in the community will help out. Prior to getting others involved it would be useful to consider whether one office of this building could be modelled with the same assumptions as used in the bigger model and see if the performance per m2 is also not meeting expectations. A small model could then be looked at by others with less hassle. It would be useful to consider - has the simulationist generated other models which do give expected results and if so what is different about the office building? And to the simulationist who asked the question - if someone offers to check your model, please first send them a QA report generated in the project manager with all of the options toggled to verbose. Reviewing one report is often easier than passing a whole model across the internet. Last year ESRU and SESG hosted a simulation QA workshop where we looked at a number of classic omissions and typographic errors in models and how to spot them. Perhaps we should do another one? -Jon Hand From F.Stift at exeter.ac.uk Mon Mar 5 10:28:24 2007 From: F.Stift at exeter.ac.uk (Florian STIFT) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 10:28:24 -0000 Subject: [esp-r] UK weather files Message-ID: <000301c75f11$017e84e0$b2e1ad90@anthonyToshiba> Dear ESP-r users! I am trying to compare the results from three different common UK whole building simulation programs. I would therefore need one weather file compatible with all three softwares. The problem is that ESP has no weather file included, which the other two use! I would be very glad if one of you could give me some advice on how to get one of the following weather files for ESP. Bristol EWY Birmingham EWY Kew EWY Heathrow EWY Norwich EWY Sheffield EWY Manchester EWY Aberporth EWY Thank's in advance for your help! Best Wishes Florian STIFT Research Assistant Centre for Energy and the Environment University of Exeter E-mail: f.stift at exeter.ac.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070305/734959fc/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 103 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070305/734959fc/attachment.gif From Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch Mon Mar 5 11:17:25 2007 From: Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch (Geissler Achim) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 12:17:25 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: unrealistic energy demands? References: <000601c75d3a$d959b610$19873dc1@wongcst> Message-ID: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C0CC1FF@sgartgum1.gart.intra> ? further thoughts: (a) I am not familiar with the DETR publication. Is it a summary of ?what is?? Then one can expect current design to significantly improve the values when adhering to ADL2. (b) You do not mention ventilation in your description. I assume it is taken into account? (c) Does DETR state end energy? Does the simulation take distribution losses and generation losses and partial load losses into account? (d) The DETR numbers you state seem strange in regard to high heating loads. For office buildings, at the currently generally assumed occupancy density, computer gear and lighting levels ? together with the ?22 ?C at all times policy? ? usually cooling load is the major load to my knowledge (however, I have experience with offices in London, only). Best regards Achim Geissler ________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Ing Liang Wong Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2007 3:23 AM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] unrealistic energy demands? Hi all, I am calculating the annual heating and cooling energy consumption for office buildings in UK climates. The heating and cooling setpoints are 20 and 24 degrees respectively. Internal casual gains from occupants, lighting and electrical equipment are assumed. The U-values for building fabrics are in accordance with the UK building regulations. To my surprise, the results (annual heating and cooling energy consumptions) are around 35 and 16 (in kWh/m2 heated floor area). The values are a bit unrealistic compared to the DETR publication for energy consumption for standard air conditioned office buildings in the UK climates (128-226kWh/m2 for electricity and 97-178kWh/m2 for fossil fuels, or 200-260kWh/m2 for heating and 33-41kWh/m2 for cooling). I had tried different simulations with variable heating and cooling capacities and temperature setpoints, it looks to me that my office building never meet the standard guidelines established by DETR. Anyone had experienced the similar problem before? I am very confused since the results are unrealistic and thus, I find it very difficult to offer any explanation to the simulation results. Maybe some experienced users could shed any light in this case. Thank you. Regards, Wong -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070305/1b0f649f/attachment.html From nuno.fernandes at mec.ua.pt Mon Mar 5 16:30:34 2007 From: nuno.fernandes at mec.ua.pt (Nuno Fernandes) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 16:30:34 -0000 Subject: [esp-r] simulation errors Message-ID: <000001c75f43$9afd5650$9a7da8c0@acer6f41f6f6c8> Dear ESP-r users I?m dealing with a simulation problem. In my project I have a vent/hydronic Network To evaluate the loads I have done a zone control, until here everything works fine. Then I have imposed a vent/hydronic control to open windows and here start my problems. When initiating the simulation the following message appears: MFCNTR: mass flow control connection 1 no valid day type for year ? day 133 MFCNTR: cannot allocate appropriate day type Is not a good practice to impose a zone and vent/hydronic control at the same time? Is it something else? Thanks in advance, Nuno Fernandes ################################################# Nuno Tiago Afonso Fernandes Universidade de Aveiro Departamento de Engenharia Mec?nica Campus Universit?rio de Santiago 3810-193 Aveiro Portugal Tel.: +351 234 370 830 nuno.fernandes at mec.ua.pt www.ua.pt ########################################################## -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070305/9d56e7cb/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Mon Mar 5 20:48:03 2007 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 20:48:03 -0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: UK weather files References: <000301c75f11$017e84e0$b2e1ad90@anthonyToshiba> Message-ID: It is concievable that, given a good description of what were the contents of the EWY files that it would be possible to convert such files into a format which ESP-r could read. And EWY files might not be in a convertable/readable format or might not be available for testing etc. An alternative is that ESP-r can deal with EPW climate file which was jointly developed for EnergyPlus and ESP-r. There are several thousand EPW files available for locations around the world. If these unnamed other simulation tools are able to import EPW files than the different tools would be working with the same weather data. Currently about 25 simulation tools work with the EPW files. -ESRU -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk on behalf of Florian STIFT Sent: Mon 3/5/2007 10:28 AM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] UK weather files Dear ESP-r users! I am trying to compare the results from three different common UK whole building simulation programs. I would therefore need one weather file compatible with all three softwares. The problem is that ESP has no weather file included, which the other two use! I would be very glad if one of you could give me some advice on how to get one of the following weather files for ESP. Bristol EWY Birmingham EWY Kew EWY Heathrow EWY Norwich EWY Sheffield EWY Manchester EWY Aberporth EWY Thank's in advance for your help! Best Wishes Florian STIFT Research Assistant Centre for Energy and the Environment University of Exeter E-mail: f.stift at exeter.ac.uk -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.gif Type: image/gif Size: 103 bytes Desc: image001.gif Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070305/cdf85974/attachment.gif From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Mon Mar 5 20:59:33 2007 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 20:59:33 -0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: capability questions References: Message-ID: It is possible to edit the wind speeds in the climate file to match your own ideas of wind speed and direction. It is possible to describe a mass flow network which has openings to the outside and the flows can be calculated as a function of the changing temperatures and pressures at each timestep. Control can be applied to these openings. It is possble to desribe a surface covered with water and have ESP-r pay attention to the latent exchanges at that surface. Micotoxins tends to require a high resolution model and tracking moisture within surfaces as well as local humidity. This is possible (but requires lots of information and some persistence). ESP-r used to have a well-used facility to track the growth of micotoxins. This faility has not been used much recently and might need a bit of work to bring its interface up to current standards. We would welcome interested parties who would like to explore and perhaps evolve these faciltiies. -ESRU -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk on behalf of Daniel Lieberman Sent: Thu 3/1/2007 10:40 PM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] capability questions Hi, I've been considering using esp-r for a mold growth analysis of an office floor. The goal is to monitor the temperature and humidity of the various building finishes over the course of a couple of (simulation) months. I have a couple of questions that I was not able to find answers for on the webpage or in the cookbook. Is it straight forward to design open exterior windows into the building model and prescribe a windy boundary conditions with a given relative humidity? Can the boundary conditions easily be prescribed to vary with time? Can a pool of standing water be specified on the floor? Thanks, Dan Daniel Lieberman, Ph.D. Exponent Failure Analysis Associates From Hakan.Nilsson at hig.se Tue Mar 6 12:35:31 2007 From: Hakan.Nilsson at hig.se (Hakan.Nilsson at hig.se) Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2007 13:35:31 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] DFS questions Message-ID: Hi, I have been trying to run the DFS in stand-alone CFD only mode. I have read the ESP-r Data Model Summary 5.9 and parts of the thesis works on the site. 1: Where can I find information on how to make "*DFS V2 # Zone air movement description" dfd-files? (Everything in the literature seems to deal with "DFS DESCRIPTION # dfs composition" dfd-files.) What is the difference? 2: When I build my case according to the ESP-r Data Model Summary and run it with the DFS(Windows Version 3.14a of January 2006) it always halts when it comes to the openings: "There are 2 openings: Opening type: V location:L" (stop) No warning! If i rem this part the whole dfd is executed. Does somebody know why? Please give me some hints! Many tanks in advance from Hakan Nilsson Department of Technology and Built Environment Laboratory of Ventilation and Air Quality University of Gavle, Sweden --- From Monika.Hall at josef-gartner.ch Tue Mar 6 14:17:07 2007 From: Monika.Hall at josef-gartner.ch (Hall Monika) Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2007 15:17:07 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: DFS questions References: Message-ID: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C0CC365@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Hi Hakan, My dfd-files starts with: *DFS V2.2 # Zone air movement description. *conflation 1 # conflation type (not applicable to cfd-only) *title Grid to estimate air flow in ... # user supplied notes for this domain *thermal_geom *vrts 1 2 4 5 # Ze is 0 if orthogonal *regions 1 2 2 0 # regions in X Y Zw Ze directions # Negative cell number enables symetrical gridding. *xregion -20 4.500 1.000 # no cells, length, power law coeff ... and so on As I remebmer, I created this with Type 1 and it works. I have no experience with CFD-only. Maybe this could help you a little bit. Regards Monika -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Hakan.Nilsson at hig.se Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2007 1:36 PM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] DFS questions Hi, I have been trying to run the DFS in stand-alone CFD only mode. I have read the ESP-r Data Model Summary 5.9 and parts of the thesis works on the site. 1: Where can I find information on how to make "*DFS V2 # Zone air movement description" dfd-files? (Everything in the literature seems to deal with "DFS DESCRIPTION # dfs composition" dfd-files.) What is the difference? 2: When I build my case according to the ESP-r Data Model Summary and run it with the DFS(Windows Version 3.14a of January 2006) it always halts when it comes to the openings: "There are 2 openings: Opening type: V location:L" (stop) No warning! If i rem this part the whole dfd is executed. Does somebody know why? Please give me some hints! Many tanks in advance from Hakan Nilsson Department of Technology and Built Environment Laboratory of Ventilation and Air Quality University of Gavle, Sweden --- _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From aizaz.a.samuel at strath.ac.uk Tue Mar 6 17:54:52 2007 From: aizaz.a.samuel at strath.ac.uk (Aizaz Aamir Samuel) Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2007 17:54:52 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: DFS questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1173203692.45edaaec58d31@cool.strath.ac.uk> Hakan, The "DFS description" format is old and not generated by project manager anymore. There is facility to read in the older version file but for some reason it does not seem to work in your case (Velocity type boundary condition definition is one of the changes). The current version of dfd file is 2.2 You need to define a CFD grid from the project manager (zones definition>composition>CFD) and define the velocity type boundaries there and it should work. -Aizaz Quoting Hakan.Nilsson at hig.se: > > Hi, I have been trying to run the DFS in stand-alone CFD only mode. I have > read the ESP-r Data Model Summary 5.9 and parts of the thesis works on the > site. > > 1: Where can I find information on how to make "*DFS V2 # Zone air movement > description" dfd-files? (Everything in the literature seems to deal with > "DFS DESCRIPTION # dfs composition" dfd-files.) What is the difference? > > 2: When I build my case according to the ESP-r Data Model Summary and run > it with the DFS(Windows Version 3.14a of January 2006) it always halts when > it comes to the openings: "There are 2 openings: Opening type: V > location:L" (stop) No warning! If i rem this part the whole dfd is > executed. Does somebody know why? > > Please give me some hints! > > Many tanks in advance from Hakan Nilsson > > Department of Technology and Built Environment > Laboratory of Ventilation and Air Quality > University of Gavle, Sweden > --- > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > ***************************** Dr Aizaz A Samuel University of Strathclyde Energy Systems Research Unit James Weir Building 75 Montrose Street Glasgow, UK G1 1XJ Tel +44 141 548 5765 Fax +44 141 552 5105 ***************************** From blomanow at engmail.uwaterloo.ca Tue Mar 6 19:21:05 2007 From: blomanow at engmail.uwaterloo.ca (blomanow at engmail.uwaterloo.ca) Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2007 14:21:05 -0500 Subject: [esp-r] Setting up time-dependent coefficients in MZSETU Message-ID: <1173208865.45edbf212eb8e@www.nexusmail.uwaterloo.ca> Good Day, I am working on adding window shading models into ESP-r and have a general question about difference equation set up in MZSETU. I'm trying to understand the formulation of the difference equations for intra- contruction nodes. As I understand so far, subroutine MZCOE1 sets up the time invariant coefficients (ie. constant thermophysical properties) and MZSETU completes the time-dependent coefficients (ie. convective/radiative coefficients, heat injections, etc.). My question is: what are the W coefficients in MZSETU and how do they fit into the difference equations (ex. eqn 3.5) formulated in Chapter 3 of "Energy Simulation in Building Design - 2nd Ed.", J.A.Clarke. Thanks in advance, Bart Lomanowski ---------------------------------------- This mail sent through www.mywaterloo.ca From Hakan.Nilsson at hig.se Wed Mar 7 07:41:09 2007 From: Hakan.Nilsson at hig.se (Hakan.Nilsson at hig.se) Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 08:41:09 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re(2): DFS questions Message-ID: Hello Aizaz, Thank you for your reply! I will try to define the grid from the project manager. Do you, or anybody else, by any chance have some idea on where to get some more information regarding the current version of the dfd file (2.2); build, version, changes and so on? (To my knowledge does the Model Summary 5.9 and parts of the thesis only work with the old "DFS description" format.) Tanks again for your time - H?kan -----esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk wrote: ----- Subject: [esp-r] Re: DFS questions Hakan, The "DFS description" format is old and not generated by project manager anymore. There is facility to read in the older version file but for some reason it does not seem to work in your case (Velocity type boundary condition definition is one of the changes). The current version of dfd file is 2.2 You need to define a CFD grid from the project manager (zones definition>composition>CFD) and define the velocity type boundaries there and it should work. -Aizaz Quoting Hakan.Nilsson at hig.se: > > Hi, I have been trying to run the DFS in stand-alone CFD only mode. I have > read the ESP-r Data Model Summary 5.9 and parts of the thesis works on the > site. > > 1: Where can I find information on how to make "*DFS V2 # Zone air movement > description" dfd-files? (Everything in the literature seems to deal with > "DFS DESCRIPTION # dfs composition" dfd-files.) What is the difference? > > 2: When I build my case according to the ESP-r Data Model Summary and run > it with the DFS(Windows Version 3.14a of January 2006) it always halts when > it comes to the openings: "There are 2 openings: Opening type: V > location:L" (stop) No warning! If i rem this part the whole dfd is > executed. Does somebody know why? > > Please give me some hints! > > Many tanks in advance from Hakan Nilsson > > Department of Technology and Built Environment > Laboratory of Ventilation and Air Quality > University of Gavle, Sweden > --- > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > ***************************** Dr Aizaz A Samuel University of Strathclyde Energy Systems Research Unit James Weir Building 75 Montrose Street Glasgow, UK G1 1XJ Tel +44 141 548 5765 Fax +44 141 552 5105 ***************************** _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Fri Mar 9 21:01:26 2007 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 21:01:26 -0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Setting up new methods in ESP-r References: <1173208865.45edbf212eb8e@www.nexusmail.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: A recent question about MZSETUP.... ::I am working on adding window shading models into ESP-r and have a general ::question about difference equation set up in MZSETU. This would be a great addition to ESP-r and it is a topic which will have a number of impacts. Possibly others are also interested in and/or working on this topic. And probably this is worth a brief discussion at the soon-to-happen ESP-r developers conference. Could the author of this email please forward a synopsis of the work being planned and the method proposed and the places where code interventions are planned so that others in the development community have a 'heads-up' on this. -Jon From blomanow at engmail.uwaterloo.ca Mon Mar 12 03:29:11 2007 From: blomanow at engmail.uwaterloo.ca (Bart Lomanowski) Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 23:29:11 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] Proposed development of window shading models Message-ID: <1173670151.45f4c907d904b@www.nexusmail.uwaterloo.ca> Hello All, In response to Jon's reply... I am a Master?s student at the Solar Thermal Research Lab at the University of Waterloo. Our group has developed window shading models focusing on the accurate treatment of venetian blinds in glazing systems. The models essentially extend a standard center-glass glazing analysis to add venetian blinds of arbitrary geometry, slat angle and position within the glazing system. The analysis is based on calculating spatially averaged, or effective solar optical and longwave properties for a shading layer given a specific geometry and slat surface reflectance. A multi-layer solar optical analysis determines the absorbed, transmitted and reflected components of incident beam (off-normal) and diffuse solar radiation. Next, a heat transfer analysis, including the absorbed solar radiation terms, determines all the radiative and convective fluxes and layer temperatures. A convection correlation has been developed for a between-the-panes venetian blind. Proposed ESP-r development: The development, still in the early stages, aims to create an ?advanced glazing systems? facility giving the user the freedom to specify any glazing/shading arrangement . The optical properties for glazing/shading systems would be calculated based on the insolation data per time-step, allowing for accurate solar energy accounting. Convective and radiative heat transfer across air gaps would be treated in more detail than the current air gap resistance approach. These models will pave way for the development of intelligent automated blind systems. The method of implementation is still in the early stages so there is still uncertainty about code interventions at this time. I anticipate that the subroutines MZSLGN, MZCOE1 and MZSETU will require extensive work, however, the plan is to create new subroutines for handling advanced glazing systems. I look forward to discussions on the subject. Regards, Bart Lomanowski From Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch Mon Mar 12 12:04:04 2007 From: Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch (Geissler Achim) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 13:04:04 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Proposed development of window shading models References: <1173670151.45f4c907d904b@www.nexusmail.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C0CC77B@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Hi Bart, very interesting topic. By "between-the-panes" do you mean those "new" special products, where a Venetian type blind is in the (sealed and desiccated) IGU gap or do you mean every type of glazing setup with blind in between glazing layers, e.g. the various "double fa?ade" types (with and without natural / forced ventilation)? I assume you are familiar with the corresponding ISO / EN standards 15099 and 13363-2. Additionally, especially interesting in regard to possible models in ESP-r, are you familiar with all the work done in this regard by ISE / Freiburg (part of the Fraunhofer Group; ESP-r user)? Quite a few publications are available; the name to look for here is Tilmann Kuhn. As Jon can confirm, the above mentioned topic (if the latter, broader definition of between-the-panes) is very interesting for the fa?ade industry. However, if you are making new models / approaches, the industry will heavily require comparisons to the accepted standardised approaches mentioned. And it will not pay :^( . Looking forward to interesting developments, best regards Achim Geissler > -----Original Message----- > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r- > bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Bart Lomanowski > Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 4:29 AM > To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Subject: [esp-r] Proposed development of window shading models > > Hello All, > > In response to Jon's reply... > > I am a Master's student at the Solar Thermal Research Lab at the > University of > Waterloo. Our group has developed window shading models focusing on the > accurate treatment of venetian blinds in glazing systems. > > The models essentially extend a standard center-glass glazing analysis to > add > venetian blinds of arbitrary geometry, slat angle and position within the > glazing system. The analysis is based on calculating spatially averaged, > or > effective solar optical and longwave properties for a shading layer given > a > specific geometry and slat surface reflectance. A multi-layer solar > optical > analysis determines the absorbed, transmitted and reflected components of > incident beam (off-normal) and diffuse solar radiation. Next, a heat > transfer > analysis, including the absorbed solar radiation terms, determines all the > radiative and convective fluxes and layer temperatures. A convection > correlation has been developed for a between-the-panes venetian blind. > > Proposed ESP-r development: > The development, still in the early stages, aims to create an "advanced > glazing > systems" facility giving the user the freedom to specify any > glazing/shading > arrangement . The optical properties for glazing/shading systems would be > calculated based on the insolation data per time-step, allowing for > accurate > solar energy accounting. Convective and radiative heat transfer across air > gaps > would be treated in more detail than the current air gap resistance > approach. > > These models will pave way for the development of intelligent automated > blind > systems. > > The method of implementation is still in the early stages so there is > still > uncertainty about code interventions at this time. I anticipate that the > subroutines MZSLGN, MZCOE1 and MZSETU will require extensive work, however, > the > plan is to create new subroutines for handling advanced glazing systems. > > I look forward to discussions on the subject. > > Regards, > Bart Lomanowski > > > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Mon Mar 12 14:33:28 2007 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 14:33:28 -0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Proposed development of window shading models References: <1173670151.45f4c907d904b@www.nexusmail.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Re: email for window shading systems.... There are several issues that would be useful to discuss: a) Blinds imply the possibility of either user or automated control actions and there are several people in the development community who have an interest in enabling better control of blinds and other aspects of optical properties. Currently optical controls are held in the zone tmc file and options for what can be sensed and what can be actuated are frustratingly different than they are for other zone controls. And when surfaces are added or deleted from a zone these contols sometimes fail. b) Between-glass blinds are one of the simpler cases. Traditionally one adds a layer within the construction and associates appropriate optical properties (e.g. a roller blind). The solution technique tracks the solar radiation absorbed by the blind layer and it would be useful to discuss whether the proposal is to extend this approach. If blinds are within the room and the blinds change physically what should the rest of the solution domain recognise as the surface or surfaces that make up the blind? Are the blinds aggregated within the surface that is transparent or are they explicit surface(s) within the room with full interaction with the surrounding zone. When blinds get hot one should observe long wave exchanges as well at the solar band distributions. In the proposal what, specifically is it that the other surfaces interact with for the various flux exchanges? After the simulation has run users might wish to enquire as to the state of the blind. And how does one report on the energy balance? What blind-related information might be useful to record for later analysis? c) Blinds on the outside of the building are also delightfully complex in their physics - one might expect exterior blinds to impact both the near-building air temperature and the short-wave and long wave environment at the facade. Some work was done in other research projects and whether what was learned elsewhere can be incorportated would be useful to talk about. How would the proposal interact with the current shading analysis tool? d) How is the proposed method different than what is being carried out in WIS? Window 6 from California includes some blind descriptors so what can be learned from these other approaches? Is this a replacement for externally generated optical properties sets? Is this proposal to work in conjunction with current optical properties within esp-r or to have an alternative path or as a replacement? e) Blind geometry and possible rotations and transforms are currently not included as descriptive fields in the model files (only the aggregate change in optical properties). Is the proposal to re-form the matrix as required to account for a different geometry within the zone? f) Those looking at designs such as double skin facades will probably bring up the issue of treatement and control of blinds within partitions. g) Facade engineers will probably be interested in how actions of blinds create different resistences to air flows within rooms and in the case of blinds suspended within double skin facades. h) The current optical properties database probably needs to evolve to support the description of blinds (actually lots of things need to evolve in terms of optical properties). Horizontal and vertical blinds will introduce direct-to-diffuse flux optical issues that are covered by the calculations in WIS - similar ideas are probably needed. It would be great if materials could be made available for use in discussions at the developers conference later this month. Of course it someone from Canada could come along to the conference and join in the discussions that would be even better! -Jon Hand -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk on behalf of Bart Lomanowski Sent: Mon 3/12/2007 3:29 AM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Proposed development of window shading models Hello All, In response to Jon's reply... I am a Master's student at the Solar Thermal Research Lab at the University of Waterloo. Our group has developed window shading models focusing on the accurate treatment of venetian blinds in glazing systems. The models essentially extend a standard center-glass glazing analysis to add venetian blinds of arbitrary geometry, slat angle and position within the glazing system. The analysis is based on calculating spatially averaged, or effective solar optical and longwave properties for a shading layer given a specific geometry and slat surface reflectance. A multi-layer solar optical analysis determines the absorbed, transmitted and reflected components of incident beam (off-normal) and diffuse solar radiation. Next, a heat transfer analysis, including the absorbed solar radiation terms, determines all the radiative and convective fluxes and layer temperatures. A convection correlation has been developed for a between-the-panes venetian blind. Proposed ESP-r development: The development, still in the early stages, aims to create an "advanced glazing systems" facility giving the user the freedom to specify any glazing/shading arrangement . The optical properties for glazing/shading systems would be calculated based on the insolation data per time-step, allowing for accurate solar energy accounting. Convective and radiative heat transfer across air gaps would be treated in more detail than the current air gap resistance approach. These models will pave way for the development of intelligent automated blind systems. The method of implementation is still in the early stages so there is still uncertainty about code interventions at this time. I anticipate that the subroutines MZSLGN, MZCOE1 and MZSETU will require extensive work, however, the plan is to create new subroutines for handling advanced glazing systems. I look forward to discussions on the subject. Regards, Bart Lomanowski _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From paul at esru.strath.ac.uk Mon Mar 12 15:40:32 2007 From: paul at esru.strath.ac.uk (paul strachan) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 15:40:32 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Proposed development of window shading models Message-ID: <45F57470.1050604@esru.strath.ac.uk> Message to esp-r list from Gunter Pueltz: Gunter.Pueltz at MuellerBBM.de Publications referred to are: Tilmann E Kuhn, Solar Control: A general evaluation method for facades with venetian blinds or other solar control systems, Energy and Buildings, 38 (2006), 648-660. Tilmann E Kuhn, Solar Control: Comparison of two new systems with the state-of-the-art on the basis of a new general evaluation method for facades with venetian blinds or other solar control systems, Energy and Buildings, 38 (2006), 661-672. ------------------ Hello Bart, for your information (and all other, who are interested in solar heat gain): At the Fraunhofer Institute ISE in Freiburg, Germany, Mr. Tilmann Kuhn has developed a very detailled and more accurate algorithm for the determination of the effective solar heat gain - especially for venetian blinds. This algorithm takes into account angle dependancies (of sun and blinds) as well as spectral distributions (see attached publications) ..... These infos might be helpfull for you .... Moreover - as a stupid user of ESP-r - I propose a cooperation between you and Mr. Kuhn in enhancing current facilities of ESP-r concerning the calculation of solar gain for facades with venetian blinds. Such a cooperation of specialists for further development of ESP-r enhancements would help all users of ESP-r .... Best Regards, Gunter P?ltz -- Gunter P?ltz M?ller-BBM GmbH Robert-Koch-Stra?e 11 82152 Planegg Telefon +49 (0)89 85602 - 336 Telefax +49 (0)89 85602 - 111 http://www.MuellerBBM.de > > -----Original Message----- > > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk > > [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk]On Behalf Of Bart Lomanowski > > Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 4:29 AM > > To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > Subject: [esp-r] Proposed development of window shading models > > > > > > Hello All, > > > > In response to Jon's reply... > > > > I am a Master's student at the Solar Thermal Research Lab at > > the University of > > Waterloo. Our group has developed window shading models > > focusing on the > > accurate treatment of venetian blinds in glazing systems. > > > > The models essentially extend a standard center-glass glazing > > analysis to add > > venetian blinds of arbitrary geometry, slat angle and > > position within the > > glazing system. The analysis is based on calculating > > spatially averaged, or > > effective solar optical and longwave properties for a shading > > layer given a > > specific geometry and slat surface reflectance. A multi-layer > > solar optical > > analysis determines the absorbed, transmitted and reflected > > components of > > incident beam (off-normal) and diffuse solar radiation. Next, > > a heat transfer > > analysis, including the absorbed solar radiation terms, > > determines all the > > radiative and convective fluxes and layer temperatures. A convection > > correlation has been developed for a between-the-panes > > venetian blind. > > > > Proposed ESP-r development: > > The development, still in the early stages, aims to create an > > "advanced glazing > > systems" facility giving the user the freedom to specify any > > glazing/shading > > arrangement . The optical properties for glazing/shading > > systems would be > > calculated based on the insolation data per time-step, > > allowing for accurate > > solar energy accounting. Convective and radiative heat > > transfer across air gaps > > would be treated in more detail than the current air gap resistance > > approach. > > > > These models will pave way for the development of intelligent > > automated blind > > systems. > > > > The method of implementation is still in the early stages so > > there is still > > uncertainty about code interventions at this time. I > > anticipate that the > > subroutines MZSLGN, MZCOE1 and MZSETU will require extensive > > work, however, the > > plan is to create new subroutines for handling advanced > > glazing systems. > > > > I look forward to discussions on the subject. > > > > Regards, > > Bart Lomanowski > > > > > > > > > > From blomanow at engmail.uwaterloo.ca Wed Mar 14 03:46:50 2007 From: blomanow at engmail.uwaterloo.ca (blomanow at engmail.uwaterloo.ca) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 23:46:50 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Proposed development of window shading models In-Reply-To: References: <1173670151.45f4c907d904b@www.nexusmail.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1173844010.45f7702a8a57d@www.nexusmail.uwaterloo.ca> Unfortunately I don't think anyone from our group will be able to join the conference next week, but I am preparing a document to summarize the capabilities of our shading models in a little more detail as well as some of the implementation issues. I will forward it by the end of this week. Perhaps this can be useful for discussion at the conference. Some of the issues put forward will definitely be challenging, for example the issue of treating the inside blind as a separate surface in the zone, or lumping it with the glazing construction. One can appreciate the complexity of the longwave exchange between the glazing behind the blind and the rest of the zone surfaces. As I mentioned before, the project is in the early stages so we don't have all the interfacing issues worked out yet. I would like to point out that althought our capabilities may be similar in scope to WIS or WINDOW 6, our models are geared toward energy simulation. Adding the treatment of complex shading systems into ESP-r, as opposed to importing data from WINDOW into the optical database, would be beneficial especially for developing real-time blind control. Best Regards, Bart Lomanowski Quoting Jon Hand : > > Re: email for window shading systems.... > > There are several issues that would be useful to discuss: > > a) Blinds imply the possibility of either user or automated control > actions and there are several people in the development community > who have an interest in enabling better control of blinds and other > aspects of optical properties. > > Currently optical controls are held in the zone tmc file and options > for what can be sensed and what can be actuated are frustratingly > different than they are for other zone controls. And when surfaces > are added or deleted from a zone these contols sometimes fail. > > b) Between-glass blinds are one of the simpler cases. Traditionally > one adds a layer within the construction and associates appropriate > optical properties (e.g. a roller blind). The solution technique tracks > the solar radiation absorbed by the blind layer and it would be useful > to discuss whether the proposal is to extend this approach. > > If blinds are within the room and the blinds change physically what > should the > rest of the solution domain recognise as the surface or surfaces > that make up the blind? Are the blinds aggregated within the surface > that > is transparent or are they explicit surface(s) within the room with full > interaction with the surrounding zone. > > When blinds get hot one should observe long wave exchanges as well at > the solar band distributions. In the proposal what, specifically is it > that > the other surfaces interact with for the various flux exchanges? > > After the simulation has run users might wish to enquire as to the state > of the > blind. And how does one report on the energy balance? What > blind-related > information might be useful to record for later analysis? > > c) Blinds on the outside of the building are also delightfully > complex in their physics - one might expect exterior blinds > to impact both the near-building air temperature and the short-wave > and long wave environment at the facade. Some work was done > in other research projects and whether what was learned elsewhere > can be incorportated would be useful to talk about. How would > the proposal interact with the current shading analysis tool? > > d) How is the proposed method different than what is being carried > out in WIS? Window 6 from California includes some blind descriptors > so what can be learned from these other approaches? > > Is this a replacement for externally generated optical > properties sets? Is this proposal to work in conjunction with > current optical properties within esp-r or to have an alternative > path or as a replacement? > > e) Blind geometry and possible rotations and transforms are currently > not included as descriptive fields in the model files (only the > aggregate > change in optical properties). Is the proposal to re-form the matrix > as required to account for a different geometry within the zone? > > f) Those looking at designs such as double skin facades will probably > bring up the issue of treatement and control of blinds within partitions. > > g) Facade engineers will probably be interested in how actions of > blinds create different resistences to air flows within rooms and > in the case of blinds suspended within double skin facades. > > h) The current optical properties database probably needs to evolve > to support the description of blinds (actually lots of things need > to evolve in terms of optical properties). Horizontal and vertical blinds > will > introduce direct-to-diffuse flux optical issues that are covered by the > calculations in WIS - similar ideas are probably needed. > > It would be great if materials could be made available for use in > discussions at the developers conference later this month. Of course > it someone from Canada could come along to the conference and > join in the discussions that would be even better! > > -Jon Hand > > -----Original Message----- > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk on behalf of Bart Lomanowski > Sent: Mon 3/12/2007 3:29 AM > To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Subject: [esp-r] Proposed development of window shading models > > Hello All, > > In response to Jon's reply... > > I am a Master's student at the Solar Thermal Research Lab at the University > of > Waterloo. Our group has developed window shading models focusing on the > accurate treatment of venetian blinds in glazing systems. > > The models essentially extend a standard center-glass glazing analysis to add > > venetian blinds of arbitrary geometry, slat angle and position within the > glazing system. The analysis is based on calculating spatially averaged, or > effective solar optical and longwave properties for a shading layer given a > specific geometry and slat surface reflectance. A multi-layer solar optical > analysis determines the absorbed, transmitted and reflected components of > incident beam (off-normal) and diffuse solar radiation. Next, a heat transfer > > analysis, including the absorbed solar radiation terms, determines all the > radiative and convective fluxes and layer temperatures. A convection > correlation has been developed for a between-the-panes venetian blind. > > Proposed ESP-r development: > The development, still in the early stages, aims to create an "advanced > glazing > systems" facility giving the user the freedom to specify any glazing/shading > > arrangement . The optical properties for glazing/shading systems would be > calculated based on the insolation data per time-step, allowing for accurate > > solar energy accounting. Convective and radiative heat transfer across air > gaps > would be treated in more detail than the current air gap resistance > approach. > > These models will pave way for the development of intelligent automated blind > > systems. > > The method of implementation is still in the early stages so there is still > uncertainty about code interventions at this time. I anticipate that the > subroutines MZSLGN, MZCOE1 and MZSETU will require extensive work, however, > the > plan is to create new subroutines for handling advanced glazing systems. > > I look forward to discussions on the subject. > > Regards, > Bart Lomanowski > > > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > > From Denis.Bourgeois at arc.ulaval.ca Wed Mar 14 12:50:49 2007 From: Denis.Bourgeois at arc.ulaval.ca (Denis J. Bourgeois) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 08:50:49 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] =?iso-8859-1?q?RE=A0=3A__Re=3A_Proposed_development_of_window_sh?= =?iso-8859-1?q?ading_models?= References: <1173670151.45f4c907d904b@www.nexusmail.uwaterloo.ca> <1173844010.45f7702a8a57d@www.nexusmail.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070314/137d4d2f/attachment.html From gialloneroverde at gmail.com Thu Mar 15 09:12:04 2007 From: gialloneroverde at gmail.com (giulio benincasa) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 10:12:04 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Adaptive convection algorithm Message-ID: <67666d10703150212v76330ef9hf9e17c7a41de3878@mail.gmail.com> Hi, My question concerns the corrected use of the option n ( mixed flow ) of the adaptive convection algorithm *I'm simulating the cavity of a double skin facade meccanically ventilated* ( supply air from adiacent room by crack to the bottom of the wall -- air warm exhaust by crack to the top of the "wall" external ) To simulare the system I use the CFD imposing as boundary conditions air flow rate through crack ...... I don't model any way the plant excepted in room by ideal control In this condition to use adaptive convection algorithm ( *option n mixed flow* ) is it sufficient set up a heating/cooling control for the cavity wuth a negligibile dummy heat/cool injection ? thank you in advance best regards Giulio -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070315/85fa53ce/attachment.html From blomanow at engmail.uwaterloo.ca Mon Mar 19 14:45:02 2007 From: blomanow at engmail.uwaterloo.ca (Bart Lomanowski) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 10:45:02 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Proposed development of window shading models Message-ID: <1174315502.45fea1ee2e0e5@www.nexusmail.uwaterloo.ca> Thanks for all the feedback, I appreciate the interest this subject has generated. I've attached some ppt slides outlining in more detail our model capabilities, the ESP-r development proposal in broad strokes, and some implementation issues for discussion. What I am most interested in is the capabilities of other ongoing developments (e.g., SHOCC) and the expected interactions of these facilities with transparent constructions. Ideally I would like to retain generality with respect to the window shading developments to ensure functionality with other windows related projects. I hope a brief discussion will be possible at the Developer's conference to shed some light on this. Thanks, Bart Lomanowski University of Waterloo -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: UWaterloo Development of Window Shading Models in ESP-r.ppt Type: application/vnd.ms-powerpoint Size: 449024 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070319/a1ae738c/attachment-0001.ppt From Gunter.Pueltz at MuellerBBM.de Tue Mar 20 07:29:35 2007 From: Gunter.Pueltz at MuellerBBM.de (Pueltz, Gunter) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 08:29:35 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Proposed development of window shading models Message-ID: <2417729F3416D511A27E0090273A963B02787219@smex01.mbbm.de> Bart, a short info concerning transmission and absorption of each layer of a tmc: The European software "Advanced Window Information System (WIS)", Version 3.0.1, des Window Energy Data Network (WinDat), coordinated by TNO Building and Construction Research (TNO Bouw), Department: Sustainable Energy and Buildings (DEG), The Netherlands (details see http://windat.ucd.ie/wis/html/index.html) is able to calculate both the overall transmission as well as the absorption in each layer of a facade WITH venetian blinds as a function of sun altitude angle (this is the "profile angle" you suggested). The WIS software is similar to the WINDOW-software from LBNL, but also treats venetian blinds. Therefore you should use the software WIS for the enhanced window model in ESP-r ... An interface between WIS and ESP-r would be a great help for ESP-users !! But also WIS shows a crued defect: It is NOT able to take the azimuth angle of the sun into account. A recent work from Mr. Kuhn, Fraunhofer-Institute of solar energy systems in Freiburg, Germany, has shown, that this defect may yield - at critical sun angles - to an underestimation of solar heat gain of appr. 100% !!!!!!! Therefore it would be the best - for my opinion -, if the new enhanced facade model (glazing AND blinds) takes into account ALL relevant angles: - the slope angle of the blinds - the sun heigt angle (or the profile angle) - the sun azimuth angle Concerning this topic, Mr. Kuhn has developed a new, enhanced algorithm (I assume based on raytracing), which considers all these angles. Please see 1) Tilmann E Kuhn, Solar Control: A general evaluation method for facades with venetian blinds or other solar control systems, Energy and Buildings, 38 (2006), 648-660. 2) Tilmann E Kuhn, Solar Control: Comparison of two new systems with the state-of-the-art on the basis of a new general evaluation method for facades with venetian blinds or other solar control systems, Energy and Buildings, 38 (2006), 661-672. You can also find more information about this new algorithm at the IBPSA-Germany website at http://129.187.44.165/konferenz/paper/2006/108.pdf I propose that you contact Mr. Kuhn directly, because he has already told his willingness to support or even participate the code enhancement of ESP-r. His contact data are following: Dipl.-Phys. Tilmann E. Kuhn Head of Group Solar Facades and Durability Analysis Dept. Thermal Systems and Buildings Fraunhofer Institut f?r Solare Energiesysteme ISE Heidenhofstr. 2, 79110 Freiburg, Germany Phone: +49 (0) 761/ 4588-5297 Fax: +49 (0)761/ 4588-9297 tilmann.kuhn at ise.fraunhofer.de http://www.ise.fraunhofer.de As a stupid ESP user I would appreciate it greatly if all experts for facade modelling cooperate for the enhancement of facade modelling in ESP-r .... Regards, Gunter -- Dr. Gunter P?ltz M?ller-BBM GmbH Robert-Koch-Stra?e 11 82152 Planegg Telefon +49(89)85602-336 Telefax +49(89)85602-111 http://www.MuellerBBM.de HRB M?nchen 86143 Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Bernd Gr?zinger, Dr. Edwin Schorer, Norbert Suritsch > -----Original Message----- > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk > [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk]On Behalf Of Bart Lomanowski > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 3:45 PM > To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Subject: [esp-r] Re: Proposed development of window shading models > > > > Thanks for all the feedback, I appreciate the interest this > subject has > generated. > > I've attached some ppt slides outlining in more detail our > model capabilities, > the ESP-r development proposal in broad strokes, and some > implementation issues > for discussion. What I am most interested in is the > capabilities of other > ongoing developments (e.g., SHOCC) and the expected > interactions of these > facilities with transparent constructions. Ideally I would > like to retain > generality with respect to the window shading developments to ensure > functionality with other windows related projects. I hope a > brief discussion > will be possible at the Developer's conference to shed some > light on this. > > Thanks, > > Bart Lomanowski > University of Waterloo > > > > > From Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch Tue Mar 20 07:40:16 2007 From: Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch (Geissler Achim) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 08:40:16 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Proposed development of window shading models References: <1174315502.45fea1ee2e0e5@www.nexusmail.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C0E81D1@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Hi Bart, what you describe in the slides sounds very good from what I understand! Most glazing-related topics we are confronted with seem to be included. In addition to Gunters comments on azimuth angle (which I had understood you mean by "profile angle") some further thoughts / questions (maybe they are covered, some descriptions were too short, for me): - Lumping the Blind: Input data would still be slat properties and geometry? ESP-r would internally calculate the "lumped properties" on a time-step basis (provided somebody involves control for such blinds - angle, percentage of lowering etc.)? - Could lumping an internal (or fa?ade gap zone) blind allow this blind to "hang" freely in a CFD-Zone (e.g. for "extract mechanical" type of fa?ade)? - Is the current limitation of beam radiation tracking through one TMC only generally being addressed by your work? That would surely be a huge benefit to the program as a whole (offices with windows to atria etc.). Or is such a setup you describe a new kind of TMC - i.e. one surface for ESP-r? - Are blinds in a ventilated gap (buoyant and / or forced, connected to an air flow model) possible? - Would vertical Venetian blinds be possible? - Are you using spectral data? Or a reduced "overall" set for solar and visible light, each? - What you mention on "available output" e.g. U-value and SHGC is very important IMO if one enters the individual layers of a system. This would enable checking against Window 6.0 or WIS for model quality control! Such output should also include visible light transmission (and maybe more), IMO. I am very much looking forward to hearing from your progress! And all this feedback you are getting shows - I think - that you have really hit the place to be in regard to thermal fa?ade modelling!! Best regards, Achim Mit freundlichen Gr?ssen / Best regards Dr.-Ing. Achim Geissler Engineering Josef Gartner Switzerland AG Schorenweg 10 CH-4144 Arlesheim Phone +41 61 417 11 87 Fax +41 61 417 11 91 Mail achim.geissler at josef-gartner.ch Web www.josef-gartner.de > -----Original Message----- > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r- > bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Bart Lomanowski > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 3:45 PM > To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Subject: [esp-r] Re: Proposed development of window shading models > > > Thanks for all the feedback, I appreciate the interest this subject has > generated. > > I've attached some ppt slides outlining in more detail our model > capabilities, > the ESP-r development proposal in broad strokes, and some implementation > issues > for discussion. What I am most interested in is the capabilities of other > ongoing developments (e.g., SHOCC) and the expected interactions of these > facilities with transparent constructions. Ideally I would like to retain > generality with respect to the window shading developments to ensure > functionality with other windows related projects. I hope a brief > discussion > will be possible at the Developer's conference to shed some light on this. > > Thanks, > > Bart Lomanowski > University of Waterloo > > > From Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch Tue Mar 20 08:43:37 2007 From: Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch (Geissler Achim) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 09:43:37 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Proposed development of window shading models References: <2417729F3416D511A27E0090273A963B02787219@smex01.mbbm.de> Message-ID: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C0E81E5@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Hi Gunter, good point on azimuth angle (if it was not already being focused on). However, what WIS actually models in regard to angle dependany is not so clear to me. - cut off by Venetian type blinds is definitely modelled. - other than that, comparison calculations seem to imply that all the angle dependant results are simply calculated by the Fresnel equation. - The paper on "new model" for Venetian type blinds: The blinds considered are, of course, relatively special cases. It would be interesting to see differences for more "standard" types of Venetian blinds. Additionally, I do not understand why "0?" and "cut-off" gives the same discrepancy. Anyway, for typical control scenarios "blind down and closed if sun", I assume the simple models do O.K. for most cases. Enhancing the model capabilities of ESP-r in this regard is very interesting for us, in any case! However, an interesting question (at least here in Europe) will be: How do results / performance parameters gained with enhanced models fit in with the EPBD-oriented planning / calculation tools (for Germany e.g. DIN 18599)? Mit freundlichen Gr?ssen / Best regards Achim Geissler > -----Original Message----- > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r- > bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Pueltz, Gunter > Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 8:30 AM > To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Cc: 'Bart Lomanowski' > Subject: [esp-r] Re: Proposed development of window shading models > > Bart, > > a short info concerning transmission and absorption of each layer of a > tmc: > > The European software "Advanced Window Information System (WIS)", > Version 3.0.1, des Window Energy Data Network (WinDat), coordinated > by TNO Building and Construction Research (TNO Bouw), Department: > Sustainable Energy and Buildings (DEG), The Netherlands (details > see http://windat.ucd.ie/wis/html/index.html) > > is able to calculate both the overall transmission as well as the > absorption > in each layer of a facade WITH venetian blinds as a function of sun > altitude > angle (this is the "profile angle" you suggested). The WIS software is > similar > to the WINDOW-software from LBNL, but also treats venetian blinds. > Therefore you should use the software WIS for the enhanced window model in > ESP-r ... > An interface between WIS and ESP-r would be a great help for ESP-users !! > > But also WIS shows a crued defect: It is NOT able to take the azimuth > angle > of > the sun into account. A recent work from Mr. Kuhn, Fraunhofer-Institute of > solar > energy systems in Freiburg, Germany, has shown, that this defect may yield > - > at critical > sun angles - to an underestimation of solar heat gain of appr. > 100% !!!!!!! > Therefore it would be the best - for my opinion -, if the new enhanced > facade model > (glazing AND blinds) takes into account ALL relevant angles: > - the slope angle of the blinds > - the sun heigt angle (or the profile angle) > - the sun azimuth angle > Concerning this topic, Mr. Kuhn has developed a new, enhanced algorithm (I > assume > based on raytracing), which considers all these angles. Please see > > 1) Tilmann E Kuhn, Solar Control: A general evaluation method for facades > with venetian blinds or other solar control systems, Energy and > Buildings, 38 (2006), 648-660. > > 2) Tilmann E Kuhn, Solar Control: Comparison of two new systems with the > state-of-the-art on the basis of a new general evaluation method for > facades with venetian blinds or other solar control systems, Energy and > Buildings, 38 (2006), 661-672. > > You can also find more information about this new algorithm at the > IBPSA-Germany > website at http://129.187.44.165/konferenz/paper/2006/108.pdf > > I propose that you contact Mr. Kuhn directly, because he has already told > his > willingness to support or even participate the code enhancement of ESP-r. > His contact data are following: > > Dipl.-Phys. Tilmann E. Kuhn > Head of Group Solar Facades and Durability Analysis > Dept. Thermal Systems and Buildings > Fraunhofer Institut f?r Solare Energiesysteme ISE > Heidenhofstr. 2, 79110 Freiburg, Germany > Phone: +49 (0) 761/ 4588-5297 Fax: +49 (0)761/ 4588-9297 > tilmann.kuhn at ise.fraunhofer.de > http://www.ise.fraunhofer.de > > As a stupid ESP user I would appreciate it greatly if all experts for > facade > modelling > cooperate for the enhancement of facade modelling in ESP-r .... > > Regards, > Gunter > > -- > Dr. Gunter P?ltz > > M?ller-BBM GmbH > Robert-Koch-Stra?e 11 > 82152 Planegg > Telefon +49(89)85602-336 > Telefax +49(89)85602-111 > http://www.MuellerBBM.de > > HRB M?nchen 86143 > Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Bernd Gr?zinger, Dr. Edwin Schorer, Norbert Suritsch > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk > > [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk]On Behalf Of Bart Lomanowski > > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 3:45 PM > > To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > Subject: [esp-r] Re: Proposed development of window shading models > > > > > > > > Thanks for all the feedback, I appreciate the interest this > > subject has > > generated. > > > > I've attached some ppt slides outlining in more detail our > > model capabilities, > > the ESP-r development proposal in broad strokes, and some > > implementation issues > > for discussion. What I am most interested in is the > > capabilities of other > > ongoing developments (e.g., SHOCC) and the expected > > interactions of these > > facilities with transparent constructions. Ideally I would > > like to retain > > generality with respect to the window shading developments to ensure > > functionality with other windows related projects. I hope a > > brief discussion > > will be possible at the Developer's conference to shed some > > light on this. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Bart Lomanowski > > University of Waterloo > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From Gunter.Pueltz at MuellerBBM.de Tue Mar 20 08:58:15 2007 From: Gunter.Pueltz at MuellerBBM.de (Pueltz, Gunter) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 09:58:15 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Proposed development of window shading models Message-ID: <2417729F3416D511A27E0090273A963B0278721C@smex01.mbbm.de> Hi Achim, to clarify the names "cut-off"-angle and "profile"-angle: 1) The so called cut-off angle is the slope angle of the blinds, which is as open as possible - but avoids DIRECT sun bean transmission. As the sun elevantion varies with daytime, the cut-off-angle is NOT a constant angle, but also varying with daytime (see attachment) .... As only 100 kB are allowed in the ESP-r email list, a second mail with definition of "profile angle" will follow .... > -----Original Message----- > From: Geissler Achim [mailto:Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch] > Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 9:44 AM > To: Pueltz, Gunter; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Cc: Bart Lomanowski > Subject: RE: [esp-r] Re: Proposed development of window shading models > > > Hi Gunter, > good point on azimuth angle (if it was not already being > focused on). However, what WIS actually models in regard to > angle dependany is not so clear to me. > - cut off by Venetian type blinds is definitely modelled. > - other than that, comparison calculations seem to > imply that all the angle dependant results are simply > calculated by the Fresnel equation. > - The paper on "new model" for Venetian type blinds: > The blinds considered are, of course, relatively special > cases. It would be interesting to see differences for more > "standard" types of Venetian blinds. Additionally, I do not > understand why "0?" and "cut-off" gives the same discrepancy. > Anyway, for typical control scenarios "blind down and closed > if sun", I assume the simple models do O.K. for most cases. > Enhancing the model capabilities of ESP-r in this regard is > very interesting for us, in any case! However, an interesting > question (at least here in Europe) will be: How do results / > performance parameters gained with enhanced models fit in > with the EPBD-oriented planning / calculation tools (for > Germany e.g. DIN 18599)? > > Mit freundlichen Gr?ssen / Best regards > > Achim Geissler > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r- > > bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Pueltz, Gunter > > Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 8:30 AM > > To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > Cc: 'Bart Lomanowski' > > Subject: [esp-r] Re: Proposed development of window shading models > > > > Bart, > > > > a short info concerning transmission and absorption of each > layer of a > > tmc: > > > > The European software "Advanced Window Information System (WIS)", > > Version 3.0.1, des Window Energy Data Network (WinDat), coordinated > > by TNO Building and Construction Research (TNO Bouw), Department: > > Sustainable Energy and Buildings (DEG), The Netherlands (details > > see http://windat.ucd.ie/wis/html/index.html) > > > > is able to calculate both the overall transmission as well as the > > absorption > > in each layer of a facade WITH venetian blinds as a function of sun > > altitude > > angle (this is the "profile angle" you suggested). The WIS > software is > > similar > > to the WINDOW-software from LBNL, but also treats venetian blinds. > > Therefore you should use the software WIS for the enhanced > window model in > > ESP-r ... > > An interface between WIS and ESP-r would be a great help > for ESP-users !! > > > > But also WIS shows a crued defect: It is NOT able to take > the azimuth > > angle > > of > > the sun into account. A recent work from Mr. Kuhn, > Fraunhofer-Institute of > > solar > > energy systems in Freiburg, Germany, has shown, that this > defect may yield > > - > > at critical > > sun angles - to an underestimation of solar heat gain of appr. > > 100% !!!!!!! > > Therefore it would be the best - for my opinion -, if the > new enhanced > > facade model > > (glazing AND blinds) takes into account ALL relevant angles: > > - the slope angle of the blinds > > - the sun heigt angle (or the profile angle) > > - the sun azimuth angle > > Concerning this topic, Mr. Kuhn has developed a new, > enhanced algorithm (I > > assume > > based on raytracing), which considers all these angles. Please see > > > > 1) Tilmann E Kuhn, Solar Control: A general evaluation > method for facades > > with venetian blinds or other solar control systems, Energy and > > Buildings, 38 (2006), 648-660. > > > > 2) Tilmann E Kuhn, Solar Control: Comparison of two new > systems with the > > state-of-the-art on the basis of a new general evaluation method for > > facades with venetian blinds or other solar control > systems, Energy and > > Buildings, 38 (2006), 661-672. > > > > You can also find more information about this new algorithm at the > > IBPSA-Germany > > website at http://129.187.44.165/konferenz/paper/2006/108.pdf > > > > I propose that you contact Mr. Kuhn directly, because he > has already told > > his > > willingness to support or even participate the code > enhancement of ESP-r. > > His contact data are following: > > > > Dipl.-Phys. Tilmann E. Kuhn > > Head of Group Solar Facades and Durability Analysis > > Dept. Thermal Systems and Buildings > > Fraunhofer Institut f?r Solare Energiesysteme ISE > > Heidenhofstr. 2, 79110 Freiburg, Germany > > Phone: +49 (0) 761/ 4588-5297 Fax: +49 (0)761/ 4588-9297 > > tilmann.kuhn at ise.fraunhofer.de > > http://www.ise.fraunhofer.de > > > > As a stupid ESP user I would appreciate it greatly if all > experts for > > facade > > modelling > > cooperate for the enhancement of facade modelling in ESP-r .... > > > > Regards, > > Gunter > > > > -- > > Dr. Gunter P?ltz > > > > M?ller-BBM GmbH > > Robert-Koch-Stra?e 11 > > 82152 Planegg > > Telefon +49(89)85602-336 > > Telefax +49(89)85602-111 > > http://www.MuellerBBM.de > > > > HRB M?nchen 86143 > > Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Bernd Gr?zinger, Dr. Edwin Schorer, > Norbert Suritsch > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk > > > [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk]On Behalf Of > Bart Lomanowski > > > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 3:45 PM > > > To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > > Subject: [esp-r] Re: Proposed development of window shading models > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for all the feedback, I appreciate the interest this > > > subject has > > > generated. > > > > > > I've attached some ppt slides outlining in more detail our > > > model capabilities, > > > the ESP-r development proposal in broad strokes, and some > > > implementation issues > > > for discussion. What I am most interested in is the > > > capabilities of other > > > ongoing developments (e.g., SHOCC) and the expected > > > interactions of these > > > facilities with transparent constructions. Ideally I would > > > like to retain > > > generality with respect to the window shading > developments to ensure > > > functionality with other windows related projects. I hope a > > > brief discussion > > > will be possible at the Developer's conference to shed some > > > light on this. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Bart Lomanowski > > > University of Waterloo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > esp-r mailing list > > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Cut-off-Lamellenwinkel.png Type: application/octet-stream Size: 65004 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070320/61b18c9b/attachment-0001.obj From Gunter.Pueltz at MuellerBBM.de Tue Mar 20 09:23:20 2007 From: Gunter.Pueltz at MuellerBBM.de (Pueltz, Gunter) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 10:23:20 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Proposed development of window shading models - e mail 2 Message-ID: <2417729F3416D511A27E0090273A963B0278721E@smex01.mbbm.de> 2) Defintion of "profile angle e": The profile angle e is defined as the projection of sun heigt angle a into a vertical plain, which is normal to the facade (see attached picture). Thus the profile angle can be interpreted as "sun heigt angle" if the sun azimuth angle j is not taken into account (e.g. for WIS-results or also in ESP-r, optical database). Again I propose an enhanced window model for ESP-r, which takes into account ALL relevant angles (see attachment): - blinde slo?pe angle - sun real heigt angle a or alternatively sun height?s profile angle e - sun azimuth angle j Concerning the official EPBD-oriented planning / calculation tool in Germany, called DIN V 18599, I can tell you following: The DIN V 18599, part 2, defines a so called effectivce g-value, which MUST be calculated according to EN 13363, part 1 (simplified) or part 2 (detailled and spectral, but only for ONE angle of 45 degree). The more sophisticated algorithm of ISO 15099 (implented in WIS) is NOT allowed ....... So it is clear, that all the angle dependancies described above are not valid for the stupid German DIN V 18599 ...... Best regards, Gunter -- Dr. Gunter P?ltz M?ller-BBM GmbH Robert-Koch-Stra?e 11 82152 Planegg Telefon +49(89)85602-336 Telefax +49(89)85602-111 http://www.MuellerBBM.de HRB M?nchen 86143 Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Bernd Gr?zinger, Dr. Edwin Schorer, Norbert Suritsch > -----Original Message----- > From: Geissler Achim [ mailto:Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch] > Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 9:44 AM > To: Pueltz, Gunter; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Cc: Bart Lomanowski > Subject: RE: [esp-r] Re: Proposed development of window shading models > > > Hi Gunter, > good point on azimuth angle (if it was not already being > focused on). However, what WIS actually models in regard to > angle dependany is not so clear to me. > - cut off by Venetian type blinds is definitely modelled. > - other than that, comparison calculations seem to > imply that all the angle dependant results are simply > calculated by the Fresnel equation. > - The paper on "new model" for Venetian type blinds: > The blinds considered are, of course, relatively special > cases. It would be interesting to see differences for more > "standard" types of Venetian blinds. Additionally, I do not > understand why "0?" and "cut-off" gives the same discrepancy. > Anyway, for typical control scenarios "blind down and closed > if sun", I assume the simple models do O.K. for most cases. > Enhancing the model capabilities of ESP-r in this regard is > very interesting for us, in any case! However, an interesting > question (at least here in Europe) will be: How do results / > performance parameters gained with enhanced models fit in > with the EPBD-oriented planning / calculation tools (for > Germany e.g. DIN 18599)? > > Mit freundlichen Gr?ssen / Best regards > > Achim Geissler > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [ mailto:esp-r- > > bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Pueltz, Gunter > > Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 8:30 AM > > To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > Cc: 'Bart Lomanowski' > > Subject: [esp-r] Re: Proposed development of window shading models > > > > Bart, > > > > a short info concerning transmission and absorption of each > layer of a > > tmc: > > > > The European software "Advanced Window Information System (WIS)", > > Version 3.0.1, des Window Energy Data Network (WinDat), coordinated > > by TNO Building and Construction Research (TNO Bouw), Department: > > Sustainable Energy and Buildings (DEG), The Netherlands (details > > see http://windat.ucd.ie/wis/html/index.html) > > > > is able to calculate both the overall transmission as well as the > > absorption > > in each layer of a facade WITH venetian blinds as a function of sun > > altitude > > angle (this is the "profile angle" you suggested). The WIS > software is > > similar > > to the WINDOW-software from LBNL, but also treats venetian blinds. > > Therefore you should use the software WIS for the enhanced > window model in > > ESP-r ... > > An interface between WIS and ESP-r would be a great help > for ESP-users !! > > > > But also WIS shows a crued defect: It is NOT able to take > the azimuth > > angle > > of > > the sun into account. A recent work from Mr. Kuhn, > Fraunhofer-Institute of > > solar > > energy systems in Freiburg, Germany, has shown, that this > defect may yield > > - > > at critical > > sun angles - to an underestimation of solar heat gain of appr. > > 100% !!!!!!! > > Therefore it would be the best - for my opinion -, if the > new enhanced > > facade model > > (glazing AND blinds) takes into account ALL relevant angles: > > - the slope angle of the blinds > > - the sun heigt angle (or the profile angle) > > - the sun azimuth angle > > Concerning this topic, Mr. Kuhn has developed a new, > enhanced algorithm (I > > assume > > based on raytracing), which considers all these angles. Please see > > > > 1) Tilmann E Kuhn, Solar Control: A general evaluation > method for facades > > with venetian blinds or other solar control systems, Energy and > > Buildings, 38 (2006), 648-660. > > > > 2) Tilmann E Kuhn, Solar Control: Comparison of two new > systems with the > > state-of-the-art on the basis of a new general evaluation method for > > facades with venetian blinds or other solar control > systems, Energy and > > Buildings, 38 (2006), 661-672. > > > > You can also find more information about this new algorithm at the > > IBPSA-Germany > > website at http://129.187.44.165/konferenz/paper/2006/108.pdf > > > > I propose that you contact Mr. Kuhn directly, because he > has already told > > his > > willingness to support or even participate the code > enhancement of ESP-r. > > His contact data are following: > > > > Dipl.-Phys. Tilmann E. Kuhn > > Head of Group Solar Facades and Durability Analysis > > Dept. Thermal Systems and Buildings > > Fraunhofer Institut f?r Solare Energiesysteme ISE > > Heidenhofstr. 2, 79110 Freiburg, Germany > > Phone: +49 (0) 761/ 4588-5297 Fax: +49 (0)761/ 4588-9297 > > tilmann.kuhn at ise.fraunhofer.de > > http://www.ise.fraunhofer.de > > > > As a stupid ESP user I would appreciate it greatly if all > experts for > > facade > > modelling > > cooperate for the enhancement of facade modelling in ESP-r .... > > > > Regards, > > Gunter > > > > -- > > Dr. Gunter P?ltz > > > > M?ller-BBM GmbH > > Robert-Koch-Stra?e 11 > > 82152 Planegg > > Telefon +49(89)85602-336 > > Telefax +49(89)85602-111 > > http://www.MuellerBBM.de > > > > HRB M?nchen 86143 > > Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Bernd Gr?zinger, Dr. Edwin Schorer, > Norbert Suritsch > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk > > > [ mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk]On Behalf Of > Bart Lomanowski > > > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 3:45 PM > > > To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > > Subject: [esp-r] Re: Proposed development of window shading models > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for all the feedback, I appreciate the interest this > > > subject has > > > generated. > > > > > > I've attached some ppt slides outlining in more detail our > > > model capabilities, > > > the ESP-r development proposal in broad strokes, and some > > > implementation issues > > > for discussion. What I am most interested in is the > > > capabilities of other > > > ongoing developments (e.g., SHOCC) and the expected > > > interactions of these > > > facilities with transparent constructions. Ideally I would > > > like to retain > > > generality with respect to the window shading > developments to ensure > > > functionality with other windows related projects. I hope a > > > brief discussion > > > will be possible at the Developer's conference to shed some > > > light on this. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Bart Lomanowski > > > University of Waterloo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > esp-r mailing list > > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070320/4537f789/attachment-0001.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: projectedangle.png Type: application/octet-stream Size: 5281 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070320/4537f789/attachment-0001.obj From Gunter.Pueltz at MuellerBBM.de Tue Mar 20 10:38:40 2007 From: Gunter.Pueltz at MuellerBBM.de (Pueltz, Gunter) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 11:38:40 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Proposed development of window shading models - e mail 2 Message-ID: <2417729F3416D511A27E0090273A963B02787221@smex01.mbbm.de> Hi Achim, the current state of implementing the EPBD in the European countries is quite confuse: In Germany is planned by the goverment, that from 01/01/2008 the German standard DIN V 18599 will define the calculation methods for the so called "Energy passport" for buildings (as the official German certificate according to EPBD). Simultaniously the European parliament has given CEN a mandat to develope a complete set of EUROPEAN standards, which will define the official calculation methods for energy certificates according to EPBD. Some of these standards are currently already available - but also many of them are currently under development ...... I am not a specialist in politics or law - I am only an ingeneer - but I assume, that in (near ?) future the European standards by CEN will replace all national standards concerning energy certificates according to the EPBD - or do you think that indivdual national liberty will allow to override the European standards ? I assume that the European standards will win ..... ? Moreover I have heard, that in other European countries, like GB/Scottland, a complete other way has been followed: I knew that the Scottish government has installed a national authority, which gives certificates to software tools - like the Virtual Environment tool from IES - which are able to perform the calculations according to EPBD ..... This software includes a zonal room simulation (similar to the thermal domain in ESP -r), zonal air flow calculations (like the air-flow network in ESP -r) and also a plant simulation (like the plant-domain of ESP -r) and a - very crued - light simulation (like in ESP-r ... ????) for calculating energy consumption of lights. Thus in Scotland an official certificate according to EPBD can be created by using a zonal simulation tool (IES/VE), whereas in Germany this certificate MUST base on - very inaccurate, but simple - calculation methodes (DIN V 18599: a simple monthly balancing method - much more inaccurate than an hourly energy balancing; also constant, standardized boundary conditions and user behaviour .....). I do not know what is currently happening in other European countries concerning the EPBD .... What?s going on in Switzerland - with the EMPA ? They usually are very up-to-date in Switzerland: Is the use of a detailled (zonal) simulation tool allowed for creating a EPBD-certificate ? Mit freundlichen Gr??en, Gunter P?ltz -- Dr. Gunter P?ltz M?ller-BBM GmbH Robert-Koch-Stra?e 11 82152 Planegg Telefon +49(89)85602-336 Telefax +49(89)85602-111 http://www.MuellerBBM.de HRB M?nchen 86143 Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Bernd Gr?zinger, Dr. Edwin Schorer, Norbert Suritsch -----Original Message----- From: Geissler Achim [mailto:Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch] Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 11:07 AM To: Pueltz, Gunter Cc: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: RE: [esp-r] Re: Proposed development of window shading models - e mail 2 Hi Gunter, thanks for the angle clarifications (the term "cut off" is quite widely accepted with the definition you gave, I think. However, we do use "solar altitude" for the "projected angle", usually ... is there any significant difference? I couldn't find what difference you see, from the sketch). However, I totally agree that explicit treatment of all angles would simplify any discussions. It would probably be quite a bit clear(er), what is assumed for the calcs. What you write about DIN V 18599 is interesting. Do you have any information on other countries in this regard? I have heard of ideas to have an "accepted EPBD" calculation tool for Europe ... for my understanding of the EPBD and the freedom of individual countries in its implementation, this is not really possible, is it? It would be interesting, of course. Mit freundlichen Gr?ssen / Best regards Achim Geissler _____ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Pueltz, Gunter Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 10:23 AM To: Geissler Achim Cc: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk; Bart Lomanowski Subject: [esp-r] Re: Proposed development of window shading models - e mail 2 2) Defintion of "profile angle e": The profile angle e is defined as the projection of sun heigt angle a into a vertical plain, which is normal to the facade (see attached picture). Thus the profile angle can be interpreted as "sun heigt angle" if the sun azimuth angle j is not taken into account (e.g. for WIS-results or also in ESP-r, optical database). Again I propose an enhanced window model for ESP-r, which takes into account ALL relevant angles (see attachment): - blinde slo?pe angle - sun real heigt angle a or alternatively sun height?s profile angle e - sun azimuth angle j Concerning the official EPBD-oriented planning / calculation tool in Germany, called DIN V 18599, I can tell you following: The DIN V 18599, part 2, defines a so called effectivce g-value, which MUST be calculated according to EN 13363, part 1 (simplified) or part 2 (detailled and spectral, but only for ONE angle of 45 degree). The more sophisticated algorithm of ISO 15099 (implented in WIS) is NOT allowed ....... So it is clear, that all the angle dependancies described above are not valid for the stupid German DIN V 18599 ...... Best regards, Gunter -- Dr. Gunter P?ltz M?ller-BBM GmbH Robert-Koch-Stra?e 11 82152 Planegg Telefon +49(89)85602-336 Telefax +49(89)85602-111 http://www.MuellerBBM.de HRB M?nchen 86143 Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Bernd Gr?zinger, Dr. Edwin Schorer, Norbert Suritsch > -----Original Message----- > From: Geissler Achim [ mailto:Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch] > Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 9:44 AM > To: Pueltz, Gunter; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Cc: Bart Lomanowski > Subject: RE: [esp-r] Re: Proposed development of window shading models > > > Hi Gunter, > good point on azimuth angle (if it was not already being > focused on). However, what WIS actually models in regard to > angle dependany is not so clear to me. > - cut off by Venetian type blinds is definitely modelled. > - other than that, comparison calculations seem to > imply that all the angle dependant results are simply > calculated by the Fresnel equation. > - The paper on "new model" for Venetian type blinds: > The blinds considered are, of course, relatively special > cases. It would be interesting to see differences for more > "standard" types of Venetian blinds. Additionally, I do not > understand why "0?" and "cut-off" gives the same discrepancy. > Anyway, for typical control scenarios "blind down and closed > if sun", I assume the simple models do O.K. for most cases. > Enhancing the model capabilities of ESP-r in this regard is > very interesting for us, in any case! However, an interesting > question (at least here in Europe) will be: How do results / > performance parameters gained with enhanced models fit in > with the EPBD-oriented planning / calculation tools (for > Germany e.g. DIN 18599)? > > Mit freundlichen Gr?ssen / Best regards > > Achim Geissler > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [ mailto:esp-r- > > bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Pueltz, Gunter > > Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 8:30 AM > > To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > Cc: 'Bart Lomanowski' > > Subject: [esp-r] Re: Proposed development of window shading models > > > > Bart, > > > > a short info concerning transmission and absorption of each > layer of a > > tmc: > > > > The European software "Advanced Window Information System (WIS)", > > Version 3.0.1, des Window Energy Data Network (WinDat), coordinated > > by TNO Building and Construction Research (TNO Bouw), Department: > > Sustainable Energy and Buildings (DEG), The Netherlands (details > > see http://windat.ucd.ie/wis/html/index.html ) > > > > is able to calculate both the overall transmission as well as the > > absorption > > in each layer of a facade WITH venetian blinds as a function of sun > > altitude > > angle (this is the "profile angle" you suggested). The WIS > software is > > similar > > to the WINDOW-software from LBNL, but also treats venetian blinds. > > Therefore you should use the software WIS for the enhanced > window model in > > ESP-r ... > > An interface between WIS and ESP-r would be a great help > for ESP-users !! > > > > But also WIS shows a crued defect: It is NOT able to take > the azimuth > > angle > > of > > the sun into account. A recent work from Mr. Kuhn, > Fraunhofer-Institute of > > solar > > energy systems in Freiburg, Germany, has shown, that this > defect may yield > > - > > at critical > > sun angles - to an underestimation of solar heat gain of appr. > > 100% !!!!!!! > > Therefore it would be the best - for my opinion -, if the > new enhanced > > facade model > > (glazing AND blinds) takes into account ALL relevant angles: > > - the slope angle of the blinds > > - the sun heigt angle (or the profile angle) > > - the sun azimuth angle > > Concerning this topic, Mr. Kuhn has developed a new, > enhanced algorithm (I > > assume > > based on raytracing), which considers all these angles. Please see > > > > 1) Tilmann E Kuhn, Solar Control: A general evaluation > method for facades > > with venetian blinds or other solar control systems, Energy and > > Buildings, 38 (2006), 648-660. > > > > 2) Tilmann E Kuhn, Solar Control: Comparison of two new > systems with the > > state-of-the-art on the basis of a new general evaluation method for > > facades with venetian blinds or other solar control > systems, Energy and > > Buildings, 38 (2006), 661-672. > > > > You can also find more information about this new algorithm at the > > IBPSA-Germany > > website at MailScanner warning: numerical links are often malicious: http://129.187.44.165/konferenz/paper/2006/108.pdf > > > > I propose that you contact Mr. Kuhn directly, because he > has already told > > his > > willingness to support or even participate the code > enhancement of ESP-r. > > His contact data are following: > > > > Dipl.-Phys. Tilmann E. Kuhn > > Head of Group Solar Facades and Durability Analysis > > Dept. Thermal Systems and Buildings > > Fraunhofer Institut f?r Solare Energiesysteme ISE > > Heidenhofstr. 2, 79110 Freiburg, Germany > > Phone: +49 (0) 761/ 4588-5297 Fax: +49 (0)761/ 4588-9297 > > tilmann.kuhn at ise.fraunhofer.de > > http://www.ise.fraunhofer.de > > > > As a stupid ESP user I would appreciate it greatly if all > experts for > > facade > > modelling > > cooperate for the enhancement of facade modelling in ESP-r .... > > > > Regards, > > Gunter > > > > -- > > Dr. Gunter P?ltz > > > > M?ller-BBM GmbH > > Robert-Koch-Stra?e 11 > > 82152 Planegg > > Telefon +49(89)85602-336 > > Telefax +49(89)85602-111 > > http://www.MuellerBBM.de > > > > HRB M?nchen 86143 > > Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Bernd Gr?zinger, Dr. Edwin Schorer, > Norbert Suritsch > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk > > > [ mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk ]On Behalf Of > Bart Lomanowski > > > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 3:45 PM > > > To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > > Subject: [esp-r] Re: Proposed development of window shading models > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for all the feedback, I appreciate the interest this > > > subject has > > > generated. > > > > > > I've attached some ppt slides outlining in more detail our > > > model capabilities, > > > the ESP-r development proposal in broad strokes, and some > > > implementation issues > > > for discussion. What I am most interested in is the > > > capabilities of other > > > ongoing developments (e.g., SHOCC) and the expected > > > interactions of these > > > facilities with transparent constructions. Ideally I would > > > like to retain > > > generality with respect to the window shading > developments to ensure > > > functionality with other windows related projects. I hope a > > > brief discussion > > > will be possible at the Developer's conference to shed some > > > light on this. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Bart Lomanowski > > > University of Waterloo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > esp-r mailing list > > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070320/0c7d574d/attachment-0001.html From Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch Tue Mar 20 10:06:34 2007 From: Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch (Geissler Achim) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 11:06:34 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Proposed development of window shading models - e mail 2 References: <2417729F3416D511A27E0090273A963B0278721E@smex01.mbbm.de> Message-ID: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C0E8204@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Hi Gunter, thanks for the angle clarifications (the term "cut off" is quite widely accepted with the definition you gave, I think. However, we do use "solar altitude" for the "projected angle", usually ... is there any significant difference? I couldn't find what difference you see, from the sketch). However, I totally agree that explicit treatment of all angles would simplify any discussions. It would probably be quite a bit clear(er), what is assumed for the calcs. What you write about DIN V 18599 is interesting. Do you have any information on other countries in this regard? I have heard of ideas to have an "accepted EPBD" calculation tool for Europe ... for my understanding of the EPBD and the freedom of individual countries in its implementation, this is not really possible, is it? It would be interesting, of course. Mit freundlichen Gr?ssen / Best regards Achim Geissler ________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Pueltz, Gunter Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 10:23 AM To: Geissler Achim Cc: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk; Bart Lomanowski Subject: [esp-r] Re: Proposed development of window shading models - e mail 2 2) Defintion of "profile angle e": The profile angle e is defined as the projection of sun heigt angle a into a vertical plain, which is normal to the facade (see attached picture). Thus the profile angle can be interpreted as "sun heigt angle" if the sun azimuth angle j is not taken into account (e.g. for WIS-results or also in ESP-r, optical database). Again I propose an enhanced window model for ESP-r, which takes into account ALL relevant angles (see attachment): - blinde slo?pe angle - sun real heigt angle a or alternatively sun height?s profile angle e - sun azimuth angle j Concerning the official EPBD-oriented planning / calculation tool in Germany, called DIN V 18599, I can tell you following: The DIN V 18599, part 2, defines a so called effectivce g-value, which MUST be calculated according to EN 13363, part 1 (simplified) or part 2 (detailled and spectral, but only for ONE angle of 45 degree). The more sophisticated algorithm of ISO 15099 (implented in WIS) is NOT allowed ....... So it is clear, that all the angle dependancies described above are not valid for the stupid German DIN V 18599 ...... Best regards, Gunter -- Dr. Gunter P?ltz M?ller-BBM GmbH Robert-Koch-Stra?e 11 82152 Planegg Telefon +49(89)85602-336 Telefax +49(89)85602-111 http://www.MuellerBBM.de HRB M?nchen 86143 Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Bernd Gr?zinger, Dr. Edwin Schorer, Norbert Suritsch > -----Original Message----- > From: Geissler Achim [mailto:Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch ] > Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 9:44 AM > To: Pueltz, Gunter; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Cc: Bart Lomanowski > Subject: RE: [esp-r] Re: Proposed development of window shading models > > > Hi Gunter, > good point on azimuth angle (if it was not already being > focused on). However, what WIS actually models in regard to > angle dependany is not so clear to me. > - cut off by Venetian type blinds is definitely modelled. > - other than that, comparison calculations seem to > imply that all the angle dependant results are simply > calculated by the Fresnel equation. > - The paper on "new model" for Venetian type blinds: > The blinds considered are, of course, relatively special > cases. It would be interesting to see differences for more > "standard" types of Venetian blinds. Additionally, I do not > understand why "0?" and "cut-off" gives the same discrepancy. > Anyway, for typical control scenarios "blind down and closed > if sun", I assume the simple models do O.K. for most cases. > Enhancing the model capabilities of ESP-r in this regard is > very interesting for us, in any case! However, an interesting > question (at least here in Europe) will be: How do results / > performance parameters gained with enhanced models fit in > with the EPBD-oriented planning / calculation tools (for > Germany e.g. DIN 18599)? > > Mit freundlichen Gr?ssen / Best regards > > Achim Geissler > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r- > > bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Pueltz, Gunter > > Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 8:30 AM > > To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > Cc: 'Bart Lomanowski' > > Subject: [esp-r] Re: Proposed development of window shading models > > > > Bart, > > > > a short info concerning transmission and absorption of each > layer of a > > tmc: > > > > The European software "Advanced Window Information System (WIS)", > > Version 3.0.1, des Window Energy Data Network (WinDat), coordinated > > by TNO Building and Construction Research (TNO Bouw), Department: > > Sustainable Energy and Buildings (DEG), The Netherlands (details > > see http://windat.ucd.ie/wis/html/index.html) > > > > is able to calculate both the overall transmission as well as the > > absorption > > in each layer of a facade WITH venetian blinds as a function of sun > > altitude > > angle (this is the "profile angle" you suggested). The WIS > software is > > similar > > to the WINDOW-software from LBNL, but also treats venetian blinds. > > Therefore you should use the software WIS for the enhanced > window model in > > ESP-r ... > > An interface between WIS and ESP-r would be a great help > for ESP-users !! > > > > But also WIS shows a crued defect: It is NOT able to take > the azimuth > > angle > > of > > the sun into account. A recent work from Mr. Kuhn, > Fraunhofer-Institute of > > solar > > energy systems in Freiburg, Germany, has shown, that this > defect may yield > > - > > at critical > > sun angles - to an underestimation of solar heat gain of appr. > > 100% !!!!!!! > > Therefore it would be the best - for my opinion -, if the > new enhanced > > facade model > > (glazing AND blinds) takes into account ALL relevant angles: > > - the slope angle of the blinds > > - the sun heigt angle (or the profile angle) > > - the sun azimuth angle > > Concerning this topic, Mr. Kuhn has developed a new, > enhanced algorithm (I > > assume > > based on raytracing), which considers all these angles. Please see > > > > 1) Tilmann E Kuhn, Solar Control: A general evaluation > method for facades > > with venetian blinds or other solar control systems, Energy and > > Buildings, 38 (2006), 648-660. > > > > 2) Tilmann E Kuhn, Solar Control: Comparison of two new > systems with the > > state-of-the-art on the basis of a new general evaluation method for > > facades with venetian blinds or other solar control > systems, Energy and > > Buildings, 38 (2006), 661-672. > > > > You can also find more information about this new algorithm at the > > IBPSA-Germany > > website at MailScanner warning: numerical links are often malicious: http://129.187.44.165/konferenz/paper/2006/108.pdf > > > > I propose that you contact Mr. Kuhn directly, because he > has already told > > his > > willingness to support or even participate the code > enhancement of ESP-r. > > His contact data are following: > > > > Dipl.-Phys. Tilmann E. Kuhn > > Head of Group Solar Facades and Durability Analysis > > Dept. Thermal Systems and Buildings > > Fraunhofer Institut f?r Solare Energiesysteme ISE > > Heidenhofstr. 2, 79110 Freiburg, Germany > > Phone: +49 (0) 761/ 4588-5297 Fax: +49 (0)761/ 4588-9297 > > tilmann.kuhn at ise.fraunhofer.de > > http://www.ise.fraunhofer.de > > > > As a stupid ESP user I would appreciate it greatly if all > experts for > > facade > > modelling > > cooperate for the enhancement of facade modelling in ESP-r .... > > > > Regards, > > Gunter > > > > -- > > Dr. Gunter P?ltz > > > > M?ller-BBM GmbH > > Robert-Koch-Stra?e 11 > > 82152 Planegg > > Telefon +49(89)85602-336 > > Telefax +49(89)85602-111 > > http://www.MuellerBBM.de > > > > HRB M?nchen 86143 > > Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Bernd Gr?zinger, Dr. Edwin Schorer, > Norbert Suritsch > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk > > > [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk]On Behalf Of > Bart Lomanowski > > > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 3:45 PM > > > To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > > Subject: [esp-r] Re: Proposed development of window shading models > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for all the feedback, I appreciate the interest this > > > subject has > > > generated. > > > > > > I've attached some ppt slides outlining in more detail our > > > model capabilities, > > > the ESP-r development proposal in broad strokes, and some > > > implementation issues > > > for discussion. What I am most interested in is the > > > capabilities of other > > > ongoing developments (e.g., SHOCC) and the expected > > > interactions of these > > > facilities with transparent constructions. Ideally I would > > > like to retain > > > generality with respect to the window shading > developments to ensure > > > functionality with other windows related projects. I hope a > > > brief discussion > > > will be possible at the Developer's conference to shed some > > > light on this. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Bart Lomanowski > > > University of Waterloo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > esp-r mailing list > > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070320/79e88e4d/attachment-0001.html From georgios at esru.strath.ac.uk Tue Mar 20 11:52:17 2007 From: georgios at esru.strath.ac.uk (Georgios Kokogiannakis) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 11:52:17 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: =?utf-8?q?Proposed_development_of_window_shading_models_-_e?= =?utf-8?q?=09=09mail_2?= In-Reply-To: <2417729F3416D511A27E0090273A963B02787221@smex01.mbbm.de> References: <2417729F3416D511A27E0090273A963B02787221@smex01.mbbm.de> Message-ID: <200703201152.17741.georgios@esru.strath.ac.uk> Dear Gunter, the new set of CEN Standards is not yet mandatory for the European countries and only intend to facilitate or help the European countries to implement the EBPD, particularly those countries that have no experience (regulations?) in the energy performance calculations. However, these Standards, and especially CEN 13790 which describes the heating and cooling calculations methodology (i.e. simplified monthly or hourly methods), ALLOW the use of validated simulation tools. There were few reactions about this (to allow simulation tools to be used) while this Standard was prepared and during the "comments"/review period but the authors replied that they were trying to ensure a "level playing field" between all methods. Now, some countries (i.e. UK) adopted this and the use of simulation tools is allowed (they have imposed though an enormous amount of accreditation tests and other criteria for the simulation tools in order to do this). Quite few other countries (I think Germany is one of them) allow the use only of one method. This is normally the monthly method described in the 13790. I can only think that the reason for this is because they do not want to get different results with different tools (?). From the other hand, would you go for a validated tool or for simplified method? I also believe that by using the simplified methods with different ways or assumptions you can get a different way of getting your building to comply with regulations or a different answer. The simplified methods in the CEN standards (e.g. the hourly and the monthly in the 13790) do not seem easy to be used and they also need good interfaces. In UK for example, they have already started selling interfaces for the regulations tool which is based on an old draft of the monthly method in the 13790 CEN Standard (and these interfaces are popular as I hear people saying). We have done few comparisons with regards to ESP-r, EnergyPlus and the two simplified methods of the latest 13790 (e.g. 2007 version) by constraining the two simulation tools according to the 13790 Standards. There are agreements in few cases but often the results between simulation tools and simplified methods were significantly different. This will hopefully be published in the next IBPSA conference. On the other hand, there will be soon a report coming out for a European project where some people in Denmark have tested the monthly method for few of the BESTEST cases and it seems that it gives good predictions. I am not yet familiar with this report but I think that few of their assumptions (e.g. internal emissivities, etc.) are not mentioned in it. Regards, Georgios On Tuesday 20 March 2007 10:38, Pueltz, Gunter wrote: > Hi Achim, > > the current state of implementing the EPBD in the European countries is > quite confuse: > > In Germany is planned by the goverment, that from 01/01/2008 the German > standard > DIN V 18599 will define the calculation methods for the so called "Energy > passport" for > buildings (as the official German certificate according to EPBD). > > Simultaniously the European parliament has given CEN a mandat to develope a > complete > set of EUROPEAN standards, which will define the official calculation > methods for energy > certificates according to EPBD. Some of these standards are currently > already available > - but also many of them are currently under development ...... > I am not a specialist in politics or law - I am only an ingeneer - but I > assume, that in (near ?) > future the European standards by CEN will replace all national standards > concerning energy > certificates according to the EPBD - or do you think that indivdual > national liberty will allow > to override the European standards ? I assume that the European standards > will win ..... ? > > Moreover I have heard, that in other European countries, like GB/Scottland, > a complete other way has > been followed: I knew that the Scottish government has installed a national > authority, which gives > certificates to software tools - like the Virtual Environment tool from IES > - which are able to perform > the calculations according to EPBD ..... This software includes a zonal > room simulation (similar to > the thermal domain in ESP -r), zonal air flow calculations (like the > air-flow network in ESP -r) > and also a plant simulation (like the plant-domain of ESP -r) and a - very > crued - light simulation > (like in ESP-r ... ????) for calculating energy consumption of lights. > > Thus in Scotland an official certificate according to EPBD can be created > by using a zonal simulation tool (IES/VE), > whereas in Germany this certificate MUST base on - very inaccurate, but > simple - calculation methodes > (DIN V 18599: a simple monthly balancing method - much more inaccurate than > an hourly energy balancing; > also constant, standardized boundary conditions and user behaviour .....). > I do not know what is currently happening in other European countries > concerning the EPBD .... > > What?s going on in Switzerland - with the EMPA ? They usually are very > up-to-date in Switzerland: Is the > use of a detailled (zonal) simulation tool allowed for creating a > EPBD-certificate ? > > > Mit freundlichen Gr??en, > Gunter P?ltz > > -- > Dr. Gunter P?ltz > > M?ller-BBM GmbH > Robert-Koch-Stra?e 11 > 82152 Planegg > Telefon +49(89)85602-336 > Telefax +49(89)85602-111 > http://www.MuellerBBM.de > > HRB M?nchen 86143 > Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Bernd Gr?zinger, Dr. Edwin Schorer, Norbert Suritsch > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Geissler Achim [mailto:Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch] > Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 11:07 AM > To: Pueltz, Gunter > Cc: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Subject: RE: [esp-r] Re: Proposed development of window shading models - e > mail 2 > > > > Hi Gunter, > > > > thanks for the angle clarifications (the term "cut off" is quite widely > accepted with the definition you gave, I think. However, we do use "solar > altitude" for the "projected angle", usually ... is there any significant > difference? I couldn't find what difference you see, from the sketch). > However, I totally agree that explicit treatment of all angles would > simplify any discussions. It would probably be quite a bit clear(er), what > is assumed for the calcs. > > > > What you write about DIN V 18599 is interesting. Do you have any > information on other countries in this regard? I have heard of ideas to > have an "accepted EPBD" calculation tool for Europe ... for my > understanding of the EPBD and the freedom of individual countries in its > implementation, this is not really possible, is it? It would be > interesting, of course. > > > > Mit freundlichen Gr?ssen / Best regards > > > > Achim Geissler > > > _____ > > > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk > [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Pueltz, Gunter > Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 10:23 AM > To: Geissler Achim > Cc: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk; Bart Lomanowski > Subject: [esp-r] Re: Proposed development of window shading models - e mail > 2 > > > > 2) Defintion of "profile angle e": > The profile angle e is defined as the projection of sun heigt angle a > into a vertical plain, which is normal to the facade (see attached > picture). > > > > Thus the profile angle can be interpreted as "sun heigt angle" if the sun > > azimuth angle j is not taken into account (e.g. for WIS-results or also > > in ESP-r, optical database). > > > > Again I propose an enhanced window model for ESP-r, which takes into > > account ALL relevant angles (see attachment): > > - blinde slo?pe angle > > - sun real heigt angle a or alternatively sun height?s profile angle e > > - sun azimuth angle j > > > Concerning the official EPBD-oriented planning / calculation tool in > Germany, > called DIN V 18599, I can tell you following: > > The DIN V 18599, part 2, defines a so called effectivce g-value, which MUST > be > > calculated according to EN 13363, part 1 (simplified) or part 2 (detailled > and spectral, > > but only for ONE angle of 45 degree). > > The more sophisticated algorithm of ISO 15099 (implented in WIS) is NOT > allowed ....... > > So it is clear, that all the angle dependancies described above are not > valid for the > > stupid German DIN V 18599 ...... > > Best regards, > Gunter > > -- > Dr. Gunter P?ltz > > M?ller-BBM GmbH > Robert-Koch-Stra?e 11 > 82152 Planegg > Telefon +49(89)85602-336 > Telefax +49(89)85602-111 > http://www.MuellerBBM.de > > HRB M?nchen 86143 > Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Bernd Gr?zinger, Dr. Edwin Schorer, Norbert Suritsch > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Geissler Achim [ > > mailto:Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch] > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 9:44 AM > > To: Pueltz, Gunter; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > Cc: Bart Lomanowski > > Subject: RE: [esp-r] Re: Proposed development of window shading models > > > > > > Hi Gunter, > > good point on azimuth angle (if it was not already being > > focused on). However, what WIS actually models in regard to > > angle dependany is not so clear to me. > > - cut off by Venetian type blinds is definitely modelled. > > - other than that, comparison calculations seem to > > imply that all the angle dependant results are simply > > calculated by the Fresnel equation. > > - The paper on "new model" for Venetian type blinds: > > The blinds considered are, of course, relatively special > > cases. It would be interesting to see differences for more > > "standard" types of Venetian blinds. Additionally, I do not > > understand why "0?" and "cut-off" gives the same discrepancy. > > Anyway, for typical control scenarios "blind down and closed > > if sun", I assume the simple models do O.K. for most cases. > > Enhancing the model capabilities of ESP-r in this regard is > > very interesting for us, in any case! However, an interesting > > question (at least here in Europe) will be: How do results / > > performance parameters gained with enhanced models fit in > > with the EPBD-oriented planning / calculation tools (for > > Germany e.g. DIN 18599)? > > > > Mit freundlichen Gr?ssen / Best regards > > > > Achim Geissler > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [ mailto:esp-r- > > > bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Pueltz, Gunter > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 8:30 AM > > > To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > > Cc: 'Bart Lomanowski' > > > Subject: [esp-r] Re: Proposed development of window shading models > > > > > > Bart, > > > > > > a short info concerning transmission and absorption of each > > > > layer of a > > > > > tmc: > > > > > > The European software "Advanced Window Information System (WIS)", > > > Version 3.0.1, des Window Energy Data Network (WinDat), coordinated > > > by TNO Building and Construction Research (TNO Bouw), Department: > > > Sustainable Energy and Buildings (DEG), The Netherlands (details > > > see http://windat.ucd.ie/wis/html/index.html > > ) > > > > is able to calculate both the overall transmission as well as the > > > absorption > > > in each layer of a facade WITH venetian blinds as a function of sun > > > altitude > > > angle (this is the "profile angle" you suggested). The WIS > > > > software is > > > > > similar > > > to the WINDOW-software from LBNL, but also treats venetian blinds. > > > Therefore you should use the software WIS for the enhanced > > > > window model in > > > > > ESP-r ... > > > An interface between WIS and ESP-r would be a great help > > > > for ESP-users !! > > > > > But also WIS shows a crued defect: It is NOT able to take > > > > the azimuth > > > > > angle > > > of > > > the sun into account. A recent work from Mr. Kuhn, > > > > Fraunhofer-Institute of > > > > > solar > > > energy systems in Freiburg, Germany, has shown, that this > > > > defect may yield > > > > > - > > > at critical > > > sun angles - to an underestimation of solar heat gain of appr. > > > 100% !!!!!!! > > > Therefore it would be the best - for my opinion -, if the > > > > new enhanced > > > > > facade model > > > (glazing AND blinds) takes into account ALL relevant angles: > > > - the slope angle of the blinds > > > - the sun heigt angle (or the profile angle) > > > - the sun azimuth angle > > > Concerning this topic, Mr. Kuhn has developed a new, > > > > enhanced algorithm (I > > > > > assume > > > based on raytracing), which considers all these angles. Please see > > > > > > 1) Tilmann E Kuhn, Solar Control: A general evaluation > > > > method for facades > > > > > with venetian blinds or other solar control systems, Energy and > > > Buildings, 38 (2006), 648-660. > > > > > > 2) Tilmann E Kuhn, Solar Control: Comparison of two new > > > > systems with the > > > > > state-of-the-art on the basis of a new general evaluation method for > > > facades with venetian blinds or other solar control > > > > systems, Energy and > > > > > Buildings, 38 (2006), 661-672. > > > > > > You can also find more information about this new algorithm at the > > > IBPSA-Germany > > > website at > > MailScanner warning: numerical links are often malicious: > http://129.187.44.165/konferenz/paper/2006/108.pdf > > > > I propose that you contact Mr. Kuhn directly, because he > > > > has already told > > > > > his > > > willingness to support or even participate the code > > > > enhancement of ESP-r. > > > > > His contact data are following: > > > > > > Dipl.-Phys. Tilmann E. Kuhn > > > Head of Group Solar Facades and Durability Analysis > > > Dept. Thermal Systems and Buildings > > > Fraunhofer Institut f?r Solare Energiesysteme ISE > > > Heidenhofstr. 2, 79110 Freiburg, Germany > > > Phone: +49 (0) 761/ 4588-5297 Fax: +49 (0)761/ 4588-9297 > > > tilmann.kuhn at ise.fraunhofer.de > > > http://www.ise.fraunhofer.de > > > > > > As a stupid ESP user I would appreciate it greatly if all > > > > experts for > > > > > facade > > > modelling > > > cooperate for the enhancement of facade modelling in ESP-r .... > > > > > > Regards, > > > Gunter > > > > > > -- > > > Dr. Gunter P?ltz > > > > > > M?ller-BBM GmbH > > > Robert-Koch-Stra?e 11 > > > 82152 Planegg > > > Telefon +49(89)85602-336 > > > Telefax +49(89)85602-111 > > > http://www.MuellerBBM.de > > > > > > HRB M?nchen 86143 > > > Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Bernd Gr?zinger, Dr. Edwin Schorer, > > > > Norbert Suritsch > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk > > > > [ mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk > > ]On Behalf Of > > > Bart Lomanowski > > > > > > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 3:45 PM > > > > To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > > > Subject: [esp-r] Re: Proposed development of window shading models > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for all the feedback, I appreciate the interest this > > > > subject has > > > > generated. > > > > > > > > I've attached some ppt slides outlining in more detail our > > > > model capabilities, > > > > the ESP-r development proposal in broad strokes, and some > > > > implementation issues > > > > for discussion. What I am most interested in is the > > > > capabilities of other > > > > ongoing developments (e.g., SHOCC) and the expected > > > > interactions of these > > > > facilities with transparent constructions. Ideally I would > > > > like to retain > > > > generality with respect to the window shading > > > > developments to ensure > > > > > > functionality with other windows related projects. I hope a > > > > brief discussion > > > > will be possible at the Developer's conference to shed some > > > > light on this. > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > Bart Lomanowski > > > > University of Waterloo > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > esp-r mailing list > > > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > > From Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch Tue Mar 20 12:04:54 2007 From: Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch (Geissler Achim) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 13:04:54 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Proposed development of window shading models - e mail2 References: <2417729F3416D511A27E0090273A963B02787221@smex01.mbbm.de> Message-ID: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C0E821E@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Hi Gunter, thank you for the overview! Very interesting!! Two comments on my part: (1) Some years ago, I was involved with some standardization work in Germany (some DINs and one EN). At that time, Europe "frowned" on any Country-Side own standards for any topic that was covered by an EN. For standards that were duplicated by EN in regard to scope, a kind of "grace period" was given (I think it was the 5 years for normal revision ... the Country standard had to be revoked, then). So, probably that is still the case and no calculation procedures that are covered by ENs may be covered / overridden by "local" standards (how that is handled in real life, is questionable, however). (2) Switzerland generally is taking over the EN standards. To data, a "mixture" of EN and SIA standards is being used. The "fully dynamic" (IES, ESP-r etc.) vs. "simple" procedures (DIN V 18599) is probably a hot topic in many places. I assume that the goal of DIN V 18599 is to make a reasonably accurate tool readily available. The more such a tool is used (the easier it is), hopes probably are that the effect in terms of energy impact will come quicker. Then again, full dynamic tools do leave quite a lot of "we do it this way"s open that may lead to problems when used as "Certification" ... probably, one would need to certify the users more than the tools ... Achim Mit freundlichen Gr?ssen / Best regards Achim Geissler ________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Pueltz, Gunter Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 11:39 AM To: Geissler Achim Cc: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Re: Proposed development of window shading models - e mail2 Hi Achim, the current state of implementing the EPBD in the European countries is quite confuse: In Germany is planned by the goverment, that from 01/01/2008 the German standard DIN V 18599 will define the calculation methods for the so called "Energy passport" for buildings (as the official German certificate according to EPBD). Simultaniously the European parliament has given CEN a mandat to develope a complete set of EUROPEAN standards, which will define the official calculation methods for energy certificates according to EPBD. Some of these standards are currently already available - but also many of them are currently under development ...... I am not a specialist in politics or law - I am only an ingeneer - but I assume, that in (near ?) future the European standards by CEN will replace all national standards concerning energy certificates according to the EPBD - or do you think that indivdual national liberty will allow to override the European standards ? I assume that the European standards will win ..... ? Moreover I have heard, that in other European countries, like GB/Scottland, a complete other way has been followed: I knew that the Scottish government has installed a national authority, which gives certificates to software tools - like the Virtual Environment tool from IES - which are able to perform the calculations according to EPBD ..... This software includes a zonal room simulation (similar to the thermal domain in ESP -r), zonal air flow calculations (like the air-flow network in ESP -r) and also a plant simulation (like the plant-domain of ESP -r) and a - very crued - light simulation (like in ESP-r ... ????) for calculating energy consumption of lights. Thus in Scotland an official certificate according to EPBD can be created by using a zonal simulation tool (IES/VE), whereas in Germany this certificate MUST base on - very inaccurate, but simple - calculation methodes (DIN V 18599: a simple monthly balancing method - much more inaccurate than an hourly energy balancing; also constant, standardized boundary conditions and user behaviour .....). I do not know what is currently happening in other European countries concerning the EPBD .... What?s going on in Switzerland - with the EMPA ? They usually are very up-to-date in Switzerland: Is the use of a detailled (zonal) simulation tool allowed for creating a EPBD-certificate ? Mit freundlichen Gr??en, Gunter P?ltz -- Dr. Gunter P?ltz M?ller-BBM GmbH Robert-Koch-Stra?e 11 82152 Planegg Telefon +49(89)85602-336 Telefax +49(89)85602-111 http://www.MuellerBBM.de HRB M?nchen 86143 Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Bernd Gr?zinger, Dr. Edwin Schorer, Norbert Suritsch -----Original Message----- From: Geissler Achim [mailto:Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch] Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 11:07 AM To: Pueltz, Gunter Cc: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: RE: [esp-r] Re: Proposed development of window shading models - e mail 2 Hi Gunter, thanks for the angle clarifications (the term "cut off" is quite widely accepted with the definition you gave, I think. However, we do use "solar altitude" for the "projected angle", usually ... is there any significant difference? I couldn't find what difference you see, from the sketch). However, I totally agree that explicit treatment of all angles would simplify any discussions. It would probably be quite a bit clear(er), what is assumed for the calcs. What you write about DIN V 18599 is interesting. Do you have any information on other countries in this regard? I have heard of ideas to have an "accepted EPBD" calculation tool for Europe ... for my understanding of the EPBD and the freedom of individual countries in its implementation, this is not really possible, is it? It would be interesting, of course. Mit freundlichen Gr?ssen / Best regards Achim Geissler ________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Pueltz, Gunter Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 10:23 AM To: Geissler Achim Cc: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk; Bart Lomanowski Subject: [esp-r] Re: Proposed development of window shading models - e mail 2 2) Defintion of "profile angle e": The profile angle e is defined as the projection of sun heigt angle a into a vertical plain, which is normal to the facade (see attached picture). Thus the profile angle can be interpreted as "sun heigt angle" if the sun azimuth angle j is not taken into account (e.g. for WIS-results or also in ESP-r, optical database). Again I propose an enhanced window model for ESP-r, which takes into account ALL relevant angles (see attachment): - blinde slo?pe angle - sun real heigt angle a or alternatively sun height?s profile angle e - sun azimuth angle j Concerning the official EPBD-oriented planning / calculation tool in Germany, called DIN V 18599, I can tell you following: The DIN V 18599, part 2, defines a so called effectivce g-value, which MUST be calculated according to EN 13363, part 1 (simplified) or part 2 (detailled and spectral, but only for ONE angle of 45 degree). The more sophisticated algorithm of ISO 15099 (implented in WIS) is NOT allowed ....... So it is clear, that all the angle dependancies described above are not valid for the stupid German DIN V 18599 ...... Best regards, Gunter -- Dr. Gunter P?ltz M?ller-BBM GmbH Robert-Koch-Stra?e 11 82152 Planegg Telefon +49(89)85602-336 Telefax +49(89)85602-111 http://www.MuellerBBM.de HRB M?nchen 86143 Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Bernd Gr?zinger, Dr. Edwin Schorer, Norbert Suritsch > -----Original Message----- > From: Geissler Achim [mailto:Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch ] > Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 9:44 AM > To: Pueltz, Gunter; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Cc: Bart Lomanowski > Subject: RE: [esp-r] Re: Proposed development of window shading models > > > Hi Gunter, > good point on azimuth angle (if it was not already being > focused on). However, what WIS actually models in regard to > angle dependany is not so clear to me. > - cut off by Venetian type blinds is definitely modelled. > - other than that, comparison calculations seem to > imply that all the angle dependant results are simply > calculated by the Fresnel equation. > - The paper on "new model" for Venetian type blinds: > The blinds considered are, of course, relatively special > cases. It would be interesting to see differences for more > "standard" types of Venetian blinds. Additionally, I do not > understand why "0?" and "cut-off" gives the same discrepancy. > Anyway, for typical control scenarios "blind down and closed > if sun", I assume the simple models do O.K. for most cases. > Enhancing the model capabilities of ESP-r in this regard is > very interesting for us, in any case! However, an interesting > question (at least here in Europe) will be: How do results / > performance parameters gained with enhanced models fit in > with the EPBD-oriented planning / calculation tools (for > Germany e.g. DIN 18599)? > > Mit freundlichen Gr?ssen / Best regards > > Achim Geissler > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r- > > bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Pueltz, Gunter > > Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 8:30 AM > > To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > Cc: 'Bart Lomanowski' > > Subject: [esp-r] Re: Proposed development of window shading models > > > > Bart, > > > > a short info concerning transmission and absorption of each > layer of a > > tmc: > > > > The European software "Advanced Window Information System (WIS)", > > Version 3.0.1, des Window Energy Data Network (WinDat), coordinated > > by TNO Building and Construction Research (TNO Bouw), Department: > > Sustainable Energy and Buildings (DEG), The Netherlands (details > > see http://windat.ucd.ie/wis/html/index.html) > > > > is able to calculate both the overall transmission as well as the > > absorption > > in each layer of a facade WITH venetian blinds as a function of sun > > altitude > > angle (this is the "profile angle" you suggested). The WIS > software is > > similar > > to the WINDOW-software from LBNL, but also treats venetian blinds. > > Therefore you should use the software WIS for the enhanced > window model in > > ESP-r ... > > An interface between WIS and ESP-r would be a great help > for ESP-users !! > > > > But also WIS shows a crued defect: It is NOT able to take > the azimuth > > angle > > of > > the sun into account. A recent work from Mr. Kuhn, > Fraunhofer-Institute of > > solar > > energy systems in Freiburg, Germany, has shown, that this > defect may yield > > - > > at critical > > sun angles - to an underestimation of solar heat gain of appr. > > 100% !!!!!!! > > Therefore it would be the best - for my opinion -, if the > new enhanced > > facade model > > (glazing AND blinds) takes into account ALL relevant angles: > > - the slope angle of the blinds > > - the sun heigt angle (or the profile angle) > > - the sun azimuth angle > > Concerning this topic, Mr. Kuhn has developed a new, > enhanced algorithm (I > > assume > > based on raytracing), which considers all these angles. Please see > > > > 1) Tilmann E Kuhn, Solar Control: A general evaluation > method for facades > > with venetian blinds or other solar control systems, Energy and > > Buildings, 38 (2006), 648-660. > > > > 2) Tilmann E Kuhn, Solar Control: Comparison of two new > systems with the > > state-of-the-art on the basis of a new general evaluation method for > > facades with venetian blinds or other solar control > systems, Energy and > > Buildings, 38 (2006), 661-672. > > > > You can also find more information about this new algorithm at the > > IBPSA-Germany > > website at MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "129.187.44.165" claiming to be MailScanner warning: numerical links are often malicious: http://129.187.44.165/konferenz/paper/2006/108.pdf > > > > I propose that you contact Mr. Kuhn directly, because he > has already told > > his > > willingness to support or even participate the code > enhancement of ESP-r. > > His contact data are following: > > > > Dipl.-Phys. Tilmann E. Kuhn > > Head of Group Solar Facades and Durability Analysis > > Dept. Thermal Systems and Buildings > > Fraunhofer Institut f?r Solare Energiesysteme ISE > > Heidenhofstr. 2, 79110 Freiburg, Germany > > Phone: +49 (0) 761/ 4588-5297 Fax: +49 (0)761/ 4588-9297 > > tilmann.kuhn at ise.fraunhofer.de > > http://www.ise.fraunhofer.de > > > > As a stupid ESP user I would appreciate it greatly if all > experts for > > facade > > modelling > > cooperate for the enhancement of facade modelling in ESP-r .... > > > > Regards, > > Gunter > > > > -- > > Dr. Gunter P?ltz > > > > M?ller-BBM GmbH > > Robert-Koch-Stra?e 11 > > 82152 Planegg > > Telefon +49(89)85602-336 > > Telefax +49(89)85602-111 > > http://www.MuellerBBM.de > > > > HRB M?nchen 86143 > > Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Bernd Gr?zinger, Dr. Edwin Schorer, > Norbert Suritsch > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk > > > [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk]On Behalf Of > Bart Lomanowski > > > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 3:45 PM > > > To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > > Subject: [esp-r] Re: Proposed development of window shading models > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for all the feedback, I appreciate the interest this > > > subject has > > > generated. > > > > > > I've attached some ppt slides outlining in more detail our > > > model capabilities, > > > the ESP-r development proposal in broad strokes, and some > > > implementation issues > > > for discussion. What I am most interested in is the > > > capabilities of other > > > ongoing developments (e.g., SHOCC) and the expected > > > interactions of these > > > facilities with transparent constructions. Ideally I would > > > like to retain > > > generality with respect to the window shading > developments to ensure > > > functionality with other windows related projects. I hope a > > > brief discussion > > > will be possible at the Developer's conference to shed some > > > light on this. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Bart Lomanowski > > > University of Waterloo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > esp-r mailing list > > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070320/61a6d1d9/attachment-0001.html From Denis.Bourgeois at arc.ulaval.ca Tue Mar 20 10:43:44 2007 From: Denis.Bourgeois at arc.ulaval.ca (Denis J. Bourgeois) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 06:43:44 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] =?iso-8859-1?q?RE=A0=3A__Re=3A_Proposed_development_of_window_sh?= =?iso-8859-1?q?ading_models?= References: <1174315502.45fea1ee2e0e5@www.nexusmail.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070320/88b681db/attachment-0001.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: SHOCC-DDS.ppt Type: application/vnd.ms-powerpoint Size: 2271744 bytes Desc: SHOCC-DDS.ppt Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070320/88b681db/attachment-0001.ppt From Gunter.Pueltz at MuellerBBM.de Tue Mar 20 10:53:54 2007 From: Gunter.Pueltz at MuellerBBM.de (Pueltz, Gunter) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 11:53:54 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Additional Info concerning implementation of EPBD into national l aws .... Message-ID: <2417729F3416D511A27E0090273A963B02787222@smex01.mbbm.de> Hi Achim, enclosed you?ll find a very interesting publication concerning the current state of implementation of EPBD into national laws .... Best Regards, Gunter -----Original Message----- From: Geissler Achim [mailto:Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch] Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 11:07 AM To: Pueltz, Gunter Cc: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: RE: [esp-r] Re: Proposed development of window shading models - e mail 2 Hi Gunter, thanks for the angle clarifications (the term "cut off" is quite widely accepted with the definition you gave, I think. However, we do use "solar altitude" for the "projected angle", usually ... is there any significant difference? I couldn't find what difference you see, from the sketch). However, I totally agree that explicit treatment of all angles would simplify any discussions. It would probably be quite a bit clear(er), what is assumed for the calcs. What you write about DIN V 18599 is interesting. Do you have any information on other countries in this regard? I have heard of ideas to have an "accepted EPBD" calculation tool for Europe ... for my understanding of the EPBD and the freedom of individual countries in its implementation, this is not really possible, is it? It would be interesting, of course. Mit freundlichen Gr?ssen / Best regards Achim Geissler _____ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Pueltz, Gunter Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 10:23 AM To: Geissler Achim Cc: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk; Bart Lomanowski Subject: [esp-r] Re: Proposed development of window shading models - e mail 2 2) Defintion of "profile angle e": The profile angle e is defined as the projection of sun heigt angle a into a vertical plain, which is normal to the facade (see attached picture). Thus the profile angle can be interpreted as "sun heigt angle" if the sun azimuth angle j is not taken into account (e.g. for WIS-results or also in ESP-r, optical database). Again I propose an enhanced window model for ESP-r, which takes into account ALL relevant angles (see attachment): - blinde slo?pe angle - sun real heigt angle a or alternatively sun height?s profile angle e - sun azimuth angle j Concerning the official EPBD-oriented planning / calculation tool in Germany, called DIN V 18599, I can tell you following: The DIN V 18599, part 2, defines a so called effectivce g-value, which MUST be calculated according to EN 13363, part 1 (simplified) or part 2 (detailled and spectral, but only for ONE angle of 45 degree). The more sophisticated algorithm of ISO 15099 (implented in WIS) is NOT allowed ....... So it is clear, that all the angle dependancies described above are not valid for the stupid German DIN V 18599 ...... Best regards, Gunter -- Dr. Gunter P?ltz M?ller-BBM GmbH Robert-Koch-Stra?e 11 82152 Planegg Telefon +49(89)85602-336 Telefax +49(89)85602-111 http://www.MuellerBBM.de HRB M?nchen 86143 Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Bernd Gr?zinger, Dr. Edwin Schorer, Norbert Suritsch > -----Original Message----- > From: Geissler Achim [ mailto:Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch] > Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 9:44 AM > To: Pueltz, Gunter; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Cc: Bart Lomanowski > Subject: RE: [esp-r] Re: Proposed development of window shading models > > > Hi Gunter, > good point on azimuth angle (if it was not already being > focused on). However, what WIS actually models in regard to > angle dependany is not so clear to me. > - cut off by Venetian type blinds is definitely modelled. > - other than that, comparison calculations seem to > imply that all the angle dependant results are simply > calculated by the Fresnel equation. > - The paper on "new model" for Venetian type blinds: > The blinds considered are, of course, relatively special > cases. It would be interesting to see differences for more > "standard" types of Venetian blinds. Additionally, I do not > understand why "0?" and "cut-off" gives the same discrepancy. > Anyway, for typical control scenarios "blind down and closed > if sun", I assume the simple models do O.K. for most cases. > Enhancing the model capabilities of ESP-r in this regard is > very interesting for us, in any case! However, an interesting > question (at least here in Europe) will be: How do results / > performance parameters gained with enhanced models fit in > with the EPBD-oriented planning / calculation tools (for > Germany e.g. DIN 18599)? > > Mit freundlichen Gr?ssen / Best regards > > Achim Geissler > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [ mailto:esp-r- > > bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Pueltz, Gunter > > Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 8:30 AM > > To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > Cc: 'Bart Lomanowski' > > Subject: [esp-r] Re: Proposed development of window shading models > > > > Bart, > > > > a short info concerning transmission and absorption of each > layer of a > > tmc: > > > > The European software "Advanced Window Information System (WIS)", > > Version 3.0.1, des Window Energy Data Network (WinDat), coordinated > > by TNO Building and Construction Research (TNO Bouw), Department: > > Sustainable Energy and Buildings (DEG), The Netherlands (details > > see http://windat.ucd.ie/wis/html/index.html ) > > > > is able to calculate both the overall transmission as well as the > > absorption > > in each layer of a facade WITH venetian blinds as a function of sun > > altitude > > angle (this is the "profile angle" you suggested). The WIS > software is > > similar > > to the WINDOW-software from LBNL, but also treats venetian blinds. > > Therefore you should use the software WIS for the enhanced > window model in > > ESP-r ... > > An interface between WIS and ESP-r would be a great help > for ESP-users !! > > > > But also WIS shows a crued defect: It is NOT able to take > the azimuth > > angle > > of > > the sun into account. A recent work from Mr. Kuhn, > Fraunhofer-Institute of > > solar > > energy systems in Freiburg, Germany, has shown, that this > defect may yield > > - > > at critical > > sun angles - to an underestimation of solar heat gain of appr. > > 100% !!!!!!! > > Therefore it would be the best - for my opinion -, if the > new enhanced > > facade model > > (glazing AND blinds) takes into account ALL relevant angles: > > - the slope angle of the blinds > > - the sun heigt angle (or the profile angle) > > - the sun azimuth angle > > Concerning this topic, Mr. Kuhn has developed a new, > enhanced algorithm (I > > assume > > based on raytracing), which considers all these angles. Please see > > > > 1) Tilmann E Kuhn, Solar Control: A general evaluation > method for facades > > with venetian blinds or other solar control systems, Energy and > > Buildings, 38 (2006), 648-660. > > > > 2) Tilmann E Kuhn, Solar Control: Comparison of two new > systems with the > > state-of-the-art on the basis of a new general evaluation method for > > facades with venetian blinds or other solar control > systems, Energy and > > Buildings, 38 (2006), 661-672. > > > > You can also find more information about this new algorithm at the > > IBPSA-Germany > > website at MailScanner warning: numerical links are often malicious: http://129.187.44.165/konferenz/paper/2006/108.pdf > > > > I propose that you contact Mr. Kuhn directly, because he > has already told > > his > > willingness to support or even participate the code > enhancement of ESP-r. > > His contact data are following: > > > > Dipl.-Phys. Tilmann E. Kuhn > > Head of Group Solar Facades and Durability Analysis > > Dept. Thermal Systems and Buildings > > Fraunhofer Institut f?r Solare Energiesysteme ISE > > Heidenhofstr. 2, 79110 Freiburg, Germany > > Phone: +49 (0) 761/ 4588-5297 Fax: +49 (0)761/ 4588-9297 > > tilmann.kuhn at ise.fraunhofer.de > > http://www.ise.fraunhofer.de > > > > As a stupid ESP user I would appreciate it greatly if all > experts for > > facade > > modelling > > cooperate for the enhancement of facade modelling in ESP-r .... > > > > Regards, > > Gunter > > > > -- > > Dr. Gunter P?ltz > > > > M?ller-BBM GmbH > > Robert-Koch-Stra?e 11 > > 82152 Planegg > > Telefon +49(89)85602-336 > > Telefax +49(89)85602-111 > > http://www.MuellerBBM.de > > > > HRB M?nchen 86143 > > Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Bernd Gr?zinger, Dr. Edwin Schorer, > Norbert Suritsch > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk > > > [ mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk ]On Behalf Of > Bart Lomanowski > > > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 3:45 PM > > > To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > > Subject: [esp-r] Re: Proposed development of window shading models > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for all the feedback, I appreciate the interest this > > > subject has > > > generated. > > > > > > I've attached some ppt slides outlining in more detail our > > > model capabilities, > > > the ESP-r development proposal in broad strokes, and some > > > implementation issues > > > for discussion. What I am most interested in is the > > > capabilities of other > > > ongoing developments (e.g., SHOCC) and the expected > > > interactions of these > > > facilities with transparent constructions. Ideally I would > > > like to retain > > > generality with respect to the window shading > developments to ensure > > > functionality with other windows related projects. I hope a > > > brief discussion > > > will be possible at the Developer's conference to shed some > > > light on this. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Bart Lomanowski > > > University of Waterloo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > esp-r mailing list > > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070320/b4f51359/attachment-0001.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: PLEA2006_PAPER183.pdf Type: application/octet-stream Size: 773378 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070320/b4f51359/attachment-0001.obj From Denis.Bourgeois at arc.ulaval.ca Tue Mar 20 12:19:30 2007 From: Denis.Bourgeois at arc.ulaval.ca (Denis J. Bourgeois) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 08:19:30 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] SHOCC - DDS summary for dev conference Message-ID: As did Bart, I would just like to share a few slides (that I can't present at the developers conference myself). I'd be happy to get feedback and answer any questions. Have fun in Glasgow! Denis Bourgeois ?cole d'architecture, Universit? Laval denis.bourgeois at arc.ulaval.ca -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070320/508d5a5f/attachment-0001.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: SHOCC-DDS.ppt Type: application/vnd.ms-powerpoint Size: 665600 bytes Desc: SHOCC-DDS.ppt Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070320/508d5a5f/attachment-0001.ppt From Gunter.Pueltz at MuellerBBM.de Tue Mar 20 14:15:05 2007 From: Gunter.Pueltz at MuellerBBM.de (Pueltz, Gunter) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 15:15:05 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: =?iso-8859-1?q?RE=A0=3A__Re=3A_Proposed_development_of_window?= =?iso-8859-1?q?_shading_models?= Message-ID: <2417729F3416D511A27E0090273A963B02787226@smex01.mbbm.de> Additionally to the detailled control of blinds in future ESP window shading models (s.b.) I want to add following aspect: For a shading system in form of venetian blinds it is very important to take the influence of wind into account: In Germany many shading systems with external venetian blinds must be closed during even small wind velocities (for avoiding damage or even destruction of blinds), which yields sometimes to strong overheating of the rooms. The reason is that the construction of the blinds often is not resistable enough against wind velocities (low-cost design) ..... For making evident the bad effects of such a low-cost shading system (and to support a better, but more costly shading system), it is necessary, to model the wind-induced overruling of the the shading system in ESP-r enhanced window shading model .... Please take this aspect into account during developing new and enhanced window shading models ..... Best Regards, Gunter -- Dr. Gunter P?ltz M?ller-BBM GmbH Robert-Koch-Stra?e 11 82152 Planegg Telefon +49(89)85602-336 Telefax +49(89)85602-111 http://www.MuellerBBM.de HRB M?nchen 86143 Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Bernd Gr?zinger, Dr. Edwin Schorer, Norbert Suritsch -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk]On Behalf Of Denis J. Bourgeois Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 11:44 AM To: Bart Lomanowski; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] RE : Re: Proposed development of window shading models As did Bart, I would just like to share a few slides (that I can't present at the developers conference). I'd be more than happy to get any feedback and answer any questions. Have fun in Glasgow! Denis Bourgeois denis.bourgeois at arc.ulaval.ca _____ De: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk de la part de Bart Lomanowski Date: lun. 2007-03-19 10:45 ?: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Objet : [esp-r] Re: Proposed development of window shading models Thanks for all the feedback, I appreciate the interest this subject has generated. I've attached some ppt slides outlining in more detail our model capabilities, the ESP-r development proposal in broad strokes, and some implementation issues for discussion. What I am most interested in is the capabilities of other ongoing developments (e.g., SHOCC) and the expected interactions of these facilities with transparent constructions. Ideally I would like to retain generality with respect to the window shading developments to ensure functionality with other windows related projects. I hope a brief discussion will be possible at the Developer's conference to shed some light on this. Thanks, Bart Lomanowski University of Waterloo -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070320/0e10e830/attachment.html From blomanow at engmail.uwaterloo.ca Tue Mar 20 19:38:32 2007 From: blomanow at engmail.uwaterloo.ca (Bart Lomanowski) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 15:38:32 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Proposed development of window shading models In-Reply-To: <2417729F3416D511A27E0090273A963B02787219@smex01.mbbm.de> References: <2417729F3416D511A27E0090273A963B02787219@smex01.mbbm.de> Message-ID: <1174419512.46003838b1807@www.nexusmail.uwaterloo.ca> Gunter, Thanks for the info. > But also WIS shows a crued defect: It is NOT able to take the azimuth angle > of > the sun into account. A recent work from Mr. Kuhn, Fraunhofer-Institute of > solar > energy systems in Freiburg, Germany, has shown, that this defect may yield - > at critical > sun angles - to an underestimation of solar heat gain of appr. 100% !!!!!!! > Therefore it would be the best - for my opinion -, if the new enhanced > facade model > (glazing AND blinds) takes into account ALL relevant angles: > - the slope angle of the blinds > - the sun heigt angle (or the profile angle) > - the sun azimuth angle > Concerning this topic, Mr. Kuhn has developed a new, enhanced algorithm (I > assume > based on raytracing), which considers all these angles. Our models do in fact take into account all the relevant angles: Glazings - incident angle Venetian Blind - slat angle (tilt of the blind) - profile angle (projected "sun height angle" into vertical plane normal to facade) The profile angle is a function of the solar altitude angle (sun real height angle) and the facade azimuth angle (difference between the solar azimuth and the facade orientation). Anotherwords, the profile angle takes into account the sun's altitude and azimuthal changes. >From what I can tell, Mr. Kuhn's work deals specifically with interior and exterior blinds due to the type of model used (i.e. the glazings are lumped into one layer and the blind into another). While this approach is definitely beneficial for performance rating of specific blind products on their own, the intent for the ESP-r work is to be able to specify any combination of glazings and venetian blinds, based on our complete (stand-alone code running) models considering the more standard types of venetian blinds. Very interesting work though, thanks for the references and contact info! Regards, Bart From blomanow at engmail.uwaterloo.ca Wed Mar 21 03:32:18 2007 From: blomanow at engmail.uwaterloo.ca (Bart Lomanowski) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 23:32:18 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Proposed development of window shading models In-Reply-To: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C0E81D1@sgartgum1.gart.intra> References: <1174315502.45fea1ee2e0e5@www.nexusmail.uwaterloo.ca> <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C0E81D1@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Message-ID: <1174447938.4600a74271f2c@www.nexusmail.uwaterloo.ca> Hi Achim, To answer some of your quesions... > - Lumping the Blind: Input data would still be slat properties and geometry? > ESP-r would internally calculate the "lumped properties" on a time-step basis > (provided somebody involves control for such blinds - angle, percentage of > lowering etc.)? Yes, the first step is to provide slat angle input during the construction stage, but this can be changed at each time step in a control strategy. The lumped or system optical properties are internally calculated on a time-step basis. > - Could lumping an internal (or fa?ade gap zone) blind allow this blind to > "hang" freely in a CFD-Zone (e.g. for "extract mechanical" type of fa?ade)? This is a good question. As I mentioned in the presentation, the interior venetian blind convection models are fairly crude at the moment. The complexity of adding a free hanging blind is not part of the scope of the work. The indoor blind will be treated as an interior surface or a construction. > - Is the current limitation of beam radiation tracking through one TMC only > generally being addressed by your work? That would surely be a huge benefit > to the program as a whole (offices with windows to atria etc.). Or is such a > setup you describe a new kind of TMC - i.e. one surface for ESP-r? That aspect is not being considered. As a starting point, the intent is to enhance the current treatment of TMCs. Of course there are many other enhancements that would be beneficial, but as a master's student, I have to limit the scope to some extent. > - Are blinds in a ventilated gap (buoyant and / or forced, connected to an > air flow model) possible? Good point. I will investigate this possibility further as I have limited knowledge on airflow connections in ESP-r. > - Would vertical Venetian blinds be possible? Yes, this is possible. The angular dependence is simply switched from the profile angle to the azimuth angle for this case. However, we have not investigated convection models for vertical slat blinds, so simplified models will have to do for now. > - Are you using spectral data? Or a reduced "overall" set for solar and > visible light, each? Not using spectral data. Total or "overall" properties are used. > - What you mention on "available output" e.g. U-value and SHGC is very > important IMO if one enters the individual layers of a system. This would > enable checking against Window 6.0 or WIS for model quality control! Such > output should also include visible light transmission (and maybe more), IMO. The U-value and SHGC values can be calculated quite easily from the results of the multi-layer solar-optical model and the complex resistance network. These indices will definitely be made available for documentation/validation purposes. Thanks for your thoughts, Bart From ali.fallahi at gmail.com Wed Mar 21 04:31:07 2007 From: ali.fallahi at gmail.com (Ali fallahi) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 00:31:07 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] Forced Ventilation With Nodal Airflow Network Message-ID: <443e3ca80703202131rd478c5dg5bef6e57f6c51320@mail.gmail.com> Hi, I am simulating the thermal behavior of a double skin facade. This double skin facade has been divided to 12 zones from the bottom to top. For nodal airflow network part (natural ventilation) I assigned one node to each zone and two nodes for ambient air ( totally 14 nodes). When I connected the nodes by "Specific Airflow Opening " component I got a peak temperature of 40C at 3pm which is reasonable. However, while I try to have forced ventilation and use " Constant Air Flow rate" component I get a peak of 35C around 8pm which is not justifiable. Even if we say that temperature decrease is because higher airflow rate the delay in peak is strange ( 3pm to 8pm ??!!). The way I connected the nodes for forced ventilation was that first I connected the ambient node to first zone from the bottom by " Constant Air Flow rate" component and left the rest of nodes (12 nodes) with "Specific Airflow Opening " component. This way I considered a fan from the bottom zone which is blowing up to the upper zones. I am not sure about my configuration and my question is how I can have a forced ventilation in double skin facade or any vertical duct being divided to several zones in height. Which component do I need to use? Many Thanks, Ali Fallahi From Gunter.Pueltz at MuellerBBM.de Wed Mar 21 06:54:01 2007 From: Gunter.Pueltz at MuellerBBM.de (Pueltz, Gunter) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 07:54:01 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Forced Ventilation With Nodal Airflow Network Message-ID: <2417729F3416D511A27E0090273A963B02787229@smex01.mbbm.de> Hi Ali, the reason for the peak at 8pm might be caused by a slighlty defect in ESP-r calculation of incident solar radiation: If you look at the time row of solar radiation, you will find short peaks early in the morning and in the evening - as far as I know, these peaks are caused by small sun height angles, which are rounded/estimated in a improper way - providing short, much too high peaks in solar radiation ..... I hope this helps you a little bit .... -Gunter > -----Original Message----- > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk > [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk]On Behalf Of Ali fallahi > Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 5:31 AM > To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Subject: [esp-r] Forced Ventilation With Nodal Airflow Network > > > Hi, > > I am simulating the thermal behavior of a double skin facade. This > double skin facade has been divided to 12 zones from the bottom to > top. For nodal airflow network part (natural ventilation) I assigned > one node to each zone and two nodes for ambient air ( totally 14 > nodes). When I connected the nodes by "Specific Airflow Opening " > component I got a peak temperature of 40C at 3pm which is reasonable. > However, while I try to have forced ventilation and use " Constant Air > Flow rate" component I get a peak of 35C around 8pm which is not > justifiable. Even if we say that temperature decrease is because > higher airflow rate the delay in peak is strange ( 3pm to 8pm ??!!). > The way I connected the nodes for forced ventilation was that first I > connected the ambient node to first zone from the bottom by " Constant > Air Flow rate" component and left the rest of nodes (12 nodes) with > "Specific Airflow Opening " component. This way I considered a fan > from the bottom zone which is blowing up to the upper zones. I am not > sure about my configuration and my question is how I can have a forced > ventilation in double skin facade or any vertical duct being divided > to several zones in height. Which component do I need to use? > > > Many Thanks, > Ali Fallahi > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > From Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch Wed Mar 21 07:46:22 2007 From: Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch (Geissler Achim) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 08:46:22 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: SHOCC - DDS summary for dev conference References: Message-ID: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C0E827B@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Hi Denis, very interesting stuff, you describe! As the internal loads are surely one of the most important factors for the calculation of cooling load - and at the same time one of the most "guessed" usually - making more realistic patterns usable for simulation is a step forward, surely. However, how do you see this in the context of dimensioning (of a building - U-value, g-value etc. - and of HVAC equipment)? Too many degrees of freedom may be contra-productive, here? In regard to your second-to-last slide and the question on "what is the incidence angle behind the louvers", my opinion is: - the *incidence* angle is always in regard to the sun (sun azimuth and altitude in regard to the fa?ade considered). For such louvers we could (a) model them individually in ESP-r as obstructions - if obstructions were enhanced with reflection and maybe even transmission (glass louvers are all 'en vogue', too) and in this way have direct-direct and direct-diffuse (and diffuse-diffuse, of course) transmission and reflection for the louver system / space behind or (b) model them as Venetian type blinds. Such a model could / will (?) then take direct-direct and direct-diffuse (and diffuse-diffuse, again) transmission / reflection into account for the space behind the louvers. - if the interaction of ESP-r with Radiance could include "translation" of Radiance results to energy analysis for usage by ESP-r, the louvers would probably be no problem at all ... maybe runtime, though. Best regards Achim Geissler ________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Denis J. Bourgeois Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 1:20 PM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] SHOCC - DDS summary for dev conference As did Bart, I would just like to share a few slides (that I can't present at the developers conference myself). I'd be happy to get feedback and answer any questions. Have fun in Glasgow! Denis Bourgeois ?cole d'architecture, Universit? Laval denis.bourgeois at arc.ulaval.ca -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070321/94ce50de/attachment-0001.html From Denis.Bourgeois at arc.ulaval.ca Wed Mar 21 10:26:09 2007 From: Denis.Bourgeois at arc.ulaval.ca (Denis J. Bourgeois) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 06:26:09 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] =?iso-8859-1?q?RE=A0=3A__Re=3A_SHOCC_-_DDS_summary_for_dev_confe?= =?iso-8859-1?q?rence?= References: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C0E827B@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070321/bc40b371/attachment.html From gialloneroverde at gmail.com Wed Mar 21 15:07:38 2007 From: gialloneroverde at gmail.com (giulio benincasa) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 16:07:38 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Weather file epw Message-ID: <67666d10703210807j5093611dr1a682fc55118a1fc@mail.gmail.com> Hi all, I ise for Milan Italy weather file epw; The Milan's coordinate are Site Latitude 45? 27' N Site longitude 9? 11' E *In climate analysis * ** Climate date: Milano VVV ITA 45.2 N 6.3 W Which value I must introduce in model context b) longitude difference ??? *Thank you in advance * *best regards Giulio Benincasa* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070321/88fcef2d/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Wed Mar 21 16:54:55 2007 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand (clcv10)) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 16:54:55 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Weather file epw In-Reply-To: <67666d10703210807j5093611dr1a682fc55118a1fc@mail.gmail.com> References: <67666d10703210807j5093611dr1a682fc55118a1fc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <895CD343-7441-492A-841D-16563F57A1DF@esru.strath.ac.uk> A recent question: > The Milan's coordinate are > > Site Latitude 45? 27' N > > Site longitude 9? 11' E > In climate analysis > > Climate date: Milano VVV ITA > > 45.2 N 6.3 W > > Which value I must introduce in model context > > b) longitude difference ??? The longitude difference is between the site co-ordinate (9 deg 11E) and the nearest time zone meridian (15 deg). The context help message in the project manger will tell you more about positive and negative values. -ESRU -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070321/ef43de62/attachment.html From susasaiz at yahoo.ca Wed Mar 21 20:50:36 2007 From: susasaiz at yahoo.ca (Susana Saiz) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 16:50:36 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [esp-r] esp-r windows version Message-ID: <460138.69150.qm@web36609.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi everyone, I am usign the windows version of esp-r and I can only open models in browse mode so I can not modify anything after I close the program. I would appreciate if someone could tell me how to open my models to be able to modify them. Thank you very much Susana --------------------------------- Now you can have a huge leap forward in email: get the new Yahoo! Mail. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070321/ab4709f2/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Thu Mar 22 08:08:02 2007 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand (clcv10)) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 08:08:02 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: esp-r windows version glitch In-Reply-To: <460138.69150.qm@web36609.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <460138.69150.qm@web36609.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6CD625C4-3EEC-470B-A660-3D19961F4EAD@esru.strath.ac.uk> A recent message.... > I am usign the windows version of esp-r and I can only open models > in browse mode so I can not modify anything after I close the > program. I would appreciate if someone could tell me how to open my > models to be able to modify them. > This was a bug in an older version. It has been fixed along with several dozen other irritants that were specific to the native windows port of ESP-r. And the 'public' version does not yet reflect this change. Until there is an official release, those who would like an update which reflects the current development branch should send an email to Jon Hand jon at esru.strath.ac.uk and I will send you a link to access an alternative native Windows installer. -Jon From georgios.kokogiannakis at strath.ac.uk Thu Mar 22 09:09:11 2007 From: georgios.kokogiannakis at strath.ac.uk (Georgios Kokogiannakis) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 09:09:11 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: esp-r windows version glitch In-Reply-To: <6CD625C4-3EEC-470B-A660-3D19961F4EAD@esru.strath.ac.uk> References: <460138.69150.qm@web36609.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <6CD625C4-3EEC-470B-A660-3D19961F4EAD@esru.strath.ac.uk> Message-ID: <1174554551.460247b75da08@cool.strath.ac.uk> I remember an MSc student here had the same problem. I think you just need to go to your folder where your cfg file is and just double click on it. The model will open and I think it will work. Let me know if that works, please. Regards, Georgios Quoting "Jon Hand (clcv10)" : > > A recent message.... > > > I am usign the windows version of esp-r and I can only open models > > in browse mode so I can not modify anything after I close the > > program. I would appreciate if someone could tell me how to open my > > models to be able to modify them. > > > > This was a bug in an older version. It has been fixed along with > several dozen > other irritants that were specific to the native windows port of ESP-r. > > And the 'public' version does not yet reflect this change. Until > there is > an official release, those who would like an update which reflects > the current > development branch should send an email to Jon Hand > jon at esru.strath.ac.uk > and I will send you a link to access an alternative native Windows > installer. > > -Jon > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > From gialloneroverde at gmail.com Tue Mar 27 09:33:38 2007 From: gialloneroverde at gmail.com (giulio benincasa) Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 10:33:38 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Material database Message-ID: <67666d10703270133m72b47b09s25a2aa80d2949343@mail.gmail.com> Hi, I wish introducet a new material in the database of the materials; the characteristics (as density, emissivity, specific heat..etc) in which conditions have to be calcolated ? Thank you in advance Best regards Giulio Benincasa -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070327/80ee6a27/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Tue Mar 27 15:41:26 2007 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand (clcv10)) Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 15:41:26 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] clarification on reported temperature differences Message-ID: <54338D66-76EA-4299-8E10-8CD15281ED81@esru.strath.ac.uk> A recent question sought clarification as to what was being graphed for various options of temperatures within the results analysis module of ESP-r. The attached PDF file hopefully clarifies temperature reporting. -ESRU -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: explain_temperature_differences.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 30698 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070327/92865328/attachment-0001.pdf From ali.fallahi at gmail.com Fri Mar 30 22:07:12 2007 From: ali.fallahi at gmail.com (Ali fallahi) Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2007 17:07:12 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] Simulation with PCM Message-ID: <443e3ca80703301407i7d6433a8g2cd483d136b9bcb2@mail.gmail.com> Hi, I am doing a simulation using PCM in one of my zones. I have 8 surfaces in that zone and I would like to put PCM on 4 of them. I started defining PCM by going to browse/edit/simulate > composition > active materials and then I defined and assigned PCM to the 4 surfaces of that zone. However it seems that this definition of PCM has no effect on the results of simulation. Moreover when I close the file and reopen it in active material section I get this message: Failed in ../zones/fcd8.geo: conversion of - value in An error has occurred while reading the special materials file - check file format! I am getting this error report from the zone which is not the one I am trying to put PCM !! Now, my question is whether I need to go somewhere else and to do something else before defining PCM in active material section. Do I need to define special construction for the base of PCM in construction database or PCM can be put on any arbitrary construction? Many Thanks, Ali Fallahi From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Mon Apr 2 11:41:13 2007 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand (clcv10)) Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 11:41:13 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: esp-r import 3rd party geometry In-Reply-To: <8E334BEBBF31D54B9989B206FB4A6D09020869A3@shos6101.ap.corp.owenscorning.com> References: <8E334BEBBF31D54B9989B206FB4A6D090208663A@shos6101.ap.corp.owenscorning.com> <8E334BEBBF31D54B9989B206FB4A6D09020869A3@shos6101.ap.corp.owenscorning.com> Message-ID: <985C69C9-E8B7-45F5-BEA2-D6D58BD4FB14@esru.strath.ac.uk> A recent question about importing ZIP format geometry into ESP-r.... > > There were functions in esp-r that allow importing 3rd party > geometry like ZIP but couldn't be found any more (in V11.2). > Were these functions been removed or buried some where? > Zip file import is available in the current version as well as the release that is currently in final testing. (For others who do not know... ZIP is not the compressed file format commonly found in Windows boxes, it is a CAD file format defined about 15 years ago in the Department of Arhitecture at the University of Strathclyde in Glasgow. An example.... If you have a file called demo.zip and it has multiple zones in it and you want to see interactively what is being imported you should go to ESP-r's zone geometry menu and ask for a new zone. One of the options listed is 'load existing zip'. This will pop up a wireframe image of each zone (including two legacy geometric component types called default doors and default windows) that might be included within the ZIP file. You are asked for confirmation as the default door or window located correctly and then it will ask you what it is composed of and what name you want to give it when it is converted to an ESP-r surface. I just double checked this facility and it works well for ZIP file import but some portions of the wire-frame display might be obsured so it is helpful to have a sketch of what is contained in the ZIP file so that you can correctly label and attribute the legacy components. There is an alternative import approach in the project manager in the top level menu in the 'Import & export' section. This will do the import silently but you will have to return to each of the newly created zones and change the surface names and attributions and misinterpretations in the case where there are several windows/doors to inserted into a wall. The 'Import and export' section also handles import from other CAD formats. Note that there are rules to follow when creating geometry within 3rd party tools so that ESP-r has a better chance of importing the CAD data. These rules have been the subject of several older ESP-r list discussions so look in the archives for further information. -Jon Hand -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070402/8882bae2/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Mon Apr 2 15:14:33 2007 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand (clcv10)) Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 15:14:33 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Simulation with PCM In-Reply-To: <443e3ca80703301407i7d6433a8g2cd483d136b9bcb2@mail.gmail.com> References: <443e3ca80703301407i7d6433a8g2cd483d136b9bcb2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <809DBDC1-ACD2-40DE-9B90-5027A0F489D7@esru.strath.ac.uk> A recent question about an error message... > > Failed in ../zones/fcd8.geo: conversion of - value in > An error has occurred while reading the special materials file - check > file format! > > I am getting this error report from the zone which is not the one I am > trying to put PCM !! The "Failed in" message is trying to give the last known file name that it was scanning when a low level error happens. And not every file that is opened has its name remembered and in this case the special materials file name was not recorded at the point where it was opened in the code (some of the obscure file reading facilities have not been updated yet). So the warning is confusing. The 2nd issue is that the debugging messages within the code where the error was detected is terse. Not many people use PCMs. An expert would run ESP-r within a debugger to find out what the specific complaint is (and hopefully that would result in better messages as the file is scanned). If there is someone in the community who has experience with PCMs perhaps they could help???? They would probably want a copy of the model and supporting documentation. And before doing that, there are some exemplar models that include PCMs and you might check to see if your description is similar to that used in the example models. -ESRU From thanos79 at gmail.com Tue Apr 3 11:14:39 2007 From: thanos79 at gmail.com (Athanasios Sakkas) Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 13:14:39 +0300 Subject: [esp-r] help Message-ID: <86fcba180704030314q139898a2tc4151d2ff6e19dae@mail.gmail.com> Dear Sir/madam, i am usign the ESP-r programm for a few weeks now and i'm trying to import a few weather data from Greece where i am from. I have a problem becouse the data from the "www.eere.energy.gov" page does not include the DIFFUSE HOR SOLAR INTENSITY,and DIRECT SOLAR INTENSITY and also the RELATIVE HUMIDITY. what do i have to do to solve my problem? i'm working for my phd on the energy autonomous houses! thanks for your time and your help. thanasis -- Sakkas Athanasios Thanos79 at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070403/cf1fea3b/attachment.html From georgios at esru.strath.ac.uk Tue Apr 3 14:48:56 2007 From: georgios at esru.strath.ac.uk (Georgios Kokogiannakis) Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 14:48:56 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: help In-Reply-To: <86fcba180704030314q139898a2tc4151d2ff6e19dae@mail.gmail.com> References: <86fcba180704030314q139898a2tc4151d2ff6e19dae@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200704031448.57006.georgios@esru.strath.ac.uk> The epw files from the eere web site contain information for all of these data. It is also very easy to import them in esp-r (have a look at the cookbook). I will send you one of them for Athens in a separate email. Regards, Georgios On Tuesday 03 April 2007 11:14, Athanasios Sakkas wrote: > Dear Sir/madam, > i am usign the ESP-r programm for a few weeks now and i'm trying to import > a few weather data from Greece where i am from. > I have a problem becouse the data from the "www.eere.energy.gov" page > does not include the DIFFUSE HOR SOLAR INTENSITY,and DIRECT SOLAR INTENSITY > and also the RELATIVE HUMIDITY. > what do i have to do to solve my problem? > i'm working for my phd on the energy autonomous houses! > thanks for your time and your help. > thanasis From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Tue Apr 3 15:12:46 2007 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand (clcv10)) Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 15:12:46 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] another new ESP-r facility under test... Message-ID: The attached PDF provides a heads-up for a new facility that I have been testing that might save some users a bit of time when creating zones and zones-within-zones. It will not be in the any-day-now public release but those with source code access will be able to access it in the near future. Regards, Jon Hand -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: extrude_facility.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 47674 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070403/c77f8cd9/attachment-0001.pdf From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Wed Apr 4 10:54:35 2007 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand (clcv10)) Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 10:54:35 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Material database question In-Reply-To: <67666d10703270133m72b47b09s25a2aa80d2949343@mail.gmail.com> References: <67666d10703270133m72b47b09s25a2aa80d2949343@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5B2DADE8-7559-4988-8865-58B1141F20C3@esru.strath.ac.uk> A recent question about adding new materials to the materials database... > I wish introducet a new material in the database of the materials; > > the characteristics (as density, emissivity, specific heat..etc) in > which conditions have to be calcolated ? > Usually the thermophysical properties included in the ESP-r materials database are taken from published data and/or standard tests. Some material thermophysical properties are sensitive to temperature, but usually a practitioner will use values related to the likely temperature range the material will be subjected to. If in doubt you could create material entries using data at different temperatures and see what sensitivity there is in a model to such changes. It is possible to extend the definition of constructions to adapt the conductivity as a function of temperature and there is a facility to define uncertainty in thermophysical details. It is the practitioners choice as to how detailed an approach is appropriate. -ESRU From paul at esru.strath.ac.uk Thu Apr 5 19:05:08 2007 From: paul at esru.strath.ac.uk (paul strachan) Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2007 19:05:08 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Introductory training course Message-ID: <46153A54.3060502@esru.strath.ac.uk> The next Introductory training course is scheduled for May 10th and 11th. Details on our website under training. Regards ESRU From Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch Wed Apr 11 08:14:18 2007 From: Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch (Geissler Achim) Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 09:14:18 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] "Thermally activated" concrete slab (or "concrete core activation") Message-ID: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C109836@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Dear ESP-r community, some time ago, I think, there was a discussion about modelling thermally activated concrete slabs (concrete slabs with water running through it for cooling / heating purposes). However, the ESP-r exemplars do not seem to have such a model, as far as I could tell. It would be a great help, if somebody that has a (simple) functioning model with this feature would share this with us ... Thanks! Mit freundlichen Gr?ssen / Best regards Dr.-Ing. Achim Geissler Engineering Josef Gartner Switzerland AG Schorenweg 10 CH-4144 Arlesheim Phone +41 61 417 11 87 Fax +41 61 417 11 91 Mail achim.geissler at josef-gartner.ch Web www.josef-gartner.de -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070411/d9ab5a6a/attachment.html From KHaddad at NRCan.gc.ca Wed Apr 11 13:39:44 2007 From: KHaddad at NRCan.gc.ca (Haddad, Kamel) Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 08:39:44 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] Re: "Thermally activated" concrete slab (or "concrete coreactivation") In-Reply-To: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C109836@sgartgum1.gart.intra> References: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C109836@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Message-ID: There is an example in directory "plt_radiant_floor" for a radiant floor with embedded tubes. Kamel Haddad ________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Geissler Achim Sent: April 11, 2007 3:14 AM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] "Thermally activated" concrete slab (or "concrete coreactivation") Dear ESP-r community, some time ago, I think, there was a discussion about modelling thermally activated concrete slabs (concrete slabs with water running through it for cooling / heating purposes). However, the ESP-r exemplars do not seem to have such a model, as far as I could tell. It would be a great help, if somebody that has a (simple) functioning model with this feature would share this with us ... Thanks! Mit freundlichen Gr?ssen / Best regards Dr.-Ing. Achim Geissler Engineering Josef Gartner Switzerland AG Schorenweg 10 CH-4144 Arlesheim Phone +41 61 417 11 87 Fax +41 61 417 11 91 Mail achim.geissler at josef-gartner.ch Web www.josef-gartner.de -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070411/3ae1f9e7/attachment.html From Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch Wed Apr 11 14:19:45 2007 From: Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch (Geissler Achim) Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 15:19:45 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: "Thermally activated" concrete slab (or "concrete coreactivation") References: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C109836@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Message-ID: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C109885@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Great! What status do the "tester" examples (? models) have as compared to the "training" examples (I hadn't thought of looking in the "tester" section, because we are not, really)? Thanks! Best regards, Achim ________________________________ From: Haddad, Kamel [mailto:KHaddad at NRCan.gc.ca] Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 2:40 PM To: Geissler Achim; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: RE: [esp-r] "Thermally activated" concrete slab (or "concrete coreactivation") There is an example in directory "plt_radiant_floor" for a radiant floor with embedded tubes. Kamel Haddad ________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Geissler Achim Sent: April 11, 2007 3:14 AM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] "Thermally activated" concrete slab (or "concrete coreactivation") Dear ESP-r community, some time ago, I think, there was a discussion about modelling thermally activated concrete slabs (concrete slabs with water running through it for cooling / heating purposes). However, the ESP-r exemplars do not seem to have such a model, as far as I could tell. It would be a great help, if somebody that has a (simple) functioning model with this feature would share this with us ... Thanks! Mit freundlichen Gr?ssen / Best regards Dr.-Ing. Achim Geissler Engineering Josef Gartner Switzerland AG Schorenweg 10 CH-4144 Arlesheim Phone +41 61 417 11 87 Fax +41 61 417 11 91 Mail achim.geissler at josef-gartner.ch Web www.josef-gartner.de -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070411/b0685932/attachment.html From KHaddad at NRCan.gc.ca Thu Apr 12 13:17:31 2007 From: KHaddad at NRCan.gc.ca (Haddad, Kamel) Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 08:17:31 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] Re: "Thermally activated" concrete slab (or "concrete coreactivation") In-Reply-To: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C109885@sgartgum1.gart.intra> References: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C109836@sgartgum1.gart.intra> <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C109885@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Message-ID: The radiant floor test case is a good starting point to learn about the radiant model in ESP-r. All of the test cases can be considered good starting points for the various models for which there are test cases. Kamel Haddad ________________________________ From: Geissler Achim [mailto:Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch] Sent: April 11, 2007 9:20 AM To: Haddad, Kamel; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: RE: [esp-r] "Thermally activated" concrete slab (or "concrete coreactivation") Great! What status do the "tester" examples (? models) have as compared to the "training" examples (I hadn't thought of looking in the "tester" section, because we are not, really)? Thanks! Best regards, Achim ________________________________ From: Haddad, Kamel [mailto:KHaddad at NRCan.gc.ca] Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 2:40 PM To: Geissler Achim; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: RE: [esp-r] "Thermally activated" concrete slab (or "concrete coreactivation") There is an example in directory "plt_radiant_floor" for a radiant floor with embedded tubes. Kamel Haddad ________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Geissler Achim Sent: April 11, 2007 3:14 AM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] "Thermally activated" concrete slab (or "concrete coreactivation") Dear ESP-r community, some time ago, I think, there was a discussion about modelling thermally activated concrete slabs (concrete slabs with water running through it for cooling / heating purposes). However, the ESP-r exemplars do not seem to have such a model, as far as I could tell. It would be a great help, if somebody that has a (simple) functioning model with this feature would share this with us ... Thanks! Mit freundlichen Gr?ssen / Best regards Dr.-Ing. Achim Geissler Engineering Josef Gartner Switzerland AG Schorenweg 10 CH-4144 Arlesheim Phone +41 61 417 11 87 Fax +41 61 417 11 91 Mail achim.geissler at josef-gartner.ch Web www.josef-gartner.de -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070412/2be547f4/attachment.html From Monika.Hall at josef-gartner.ch Fri Apr 13 09:53:34 2007 From: Monika.Hall at josef-gartner.ch (Hall Monika) Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 10:53:34 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] solar collector Message-ID: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C10996B@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Dear all, does anybody have worked with a solar collector? What does the resulttemperatur means for the component collector? Is it the temperature at the collector exit or is it the mean temperatur of the collector, or ...? I want to split the water flow from one WCH pipe to two flat plate solar collectors "segment". If I connect the pipe with both collectors and each collector gets a half of the water flow (diversion ration: 0.5) I get an error massage because the number of nodes is not correct. After the collectors I want to unite the flow in one pipe, but there is the same problem. Dose anybody know how to split/unite the water flow? Thank you very much. Best regards Monika -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070413/571648e5/attachment.html From KHaddad at NRCan.gc.ca Fri Apr 13 12:56:15 2007 From: KHaddad at NRCan.gc.ca (Haddad, Kamel) Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 07:56:15 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] Re: solar collector References: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C10996B@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Message-ID: Dear Monica, The temperature of the collector is at the exit. It sounds you're connecting the pipe to the two collectors with the proper diversity ratio, namely 0.5, to each of the collectors The problem could be that the sum of the diversity ratios from each of the collectors to component donwstream of the collectors does not add up to 1 Kamel Haddad ________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk on behalf of Hall Monika Sent: Fri 13/04/2007 4:53 AM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] solar collector Dear all, does anybody have worked with a solar collector? What does the resulttemperatur means for the component collector? Is it the temperature at the collector exit or is it the mean temperatur of the collector, or ...? I want to split the water flow from one WCH pipe to two flat plate solar collectors "segment". If I connect the pipe with both collectors and each collector gets a half of the water flow (diversion ration: 0.5) I get an error massage because the number of nodes is not correct. After the collectors I want to unite the flow in one pipe, but there is the same problem. Dose anybody know how to split/unite the water flow? Thank you very much. Best regards Monika From Monika.Hall at josef-gartner.ch Fri Apr 13 13:44:47 2007 From: Monika.Hall at josef-gartner.ch (Hall Monika) Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 14:44:47 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: solar collector References: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C10996B@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Message-ID: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C1099A5@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Dear Kamel, my pln-file is: ... # receiving node conncn sending node diversion suppl1 suppl2 # component type component ratio Col_1 1 3 pipe 1 0.500 # 1 Col_2 1 3 pipe 1 0.500 # 2 pump 1 3 Col_1 1 1.000 # 3 pump 1 3 Col_2 1 1.000 # 4 pipe 1 3 pump 1 1.000 60.0 0.0 # 5 pump 1 3 pipe 1 1.000 # 6 I have to change something, but I do not know what. Thanks a lot. Regards Monika -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Haddad, Kamel Sent: Friday, April 13, 2007 1:56 PM To: Hall Monika; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Re: solar collector Dear Monica, The temperature of the collector is at the exit. It sounds you're connecting the pipe to the two collectors with the proper diversity ratio, namely 0.5, to each of the collectors The problem could be that the sum of the diversity ratios from each of the collectors to component donwstream of the collectors does not add up to 1 Kamel Haddad ________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk on behalf of Hall Monika Sent: Fri 13/04/2007 4:53 AM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] solar collector Dear all, does anybody have worked with a solar collector? What does the resulttemperatur means for the component collector? Is it the temperature at the collector exit or is it the mean temperatur of the collector, or ...? I want to split the water flow from one WCH pipe to two flat plate solar collectors "segment". If I connect the pipe with both collectors and each collector gets a half of the water flow (diversion ration: 0.5) I get an error massage because the number of nodes is not correct. After the collectors I want to unite the flow in one pipe, but there is the same problem. Dose anybody know how to split/unite the water flow? Thank you very much. Best regards Monika _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From KHaddad at NRCan.gc.ca Fri Apr 13 17:26:52 2007 From: KHaddad at NRCan.gc.ca (Haddad, Kamel) Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 12:26:52 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] Re: solar collector References: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C10996B@sgartgum1.gart.intra> <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C1099A5@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Message-ID: Dear Monika, It looks the problem is the fact that you have two incoming flows to the pump. This component accepts only one incoming flow. You will need to use a pipe converging junction and then connect the junction outlet to the pump Kamel Haddad ________________________________ From: Hall Monika [mailto:Monika.Hall at josef-gartner.ch] Sent: Fri 13/04/2007 8:44 AM To: Haddad, Kamel; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: RE: [esp-r] Re: solar collector Dear Kamel, my pln-file is: ... # receiving node conncn sending node diversion suppl1 suppl2 # component type component ratio Col_1 1 3 pipe 1 0.500 # 1 Col_2 1 3 pipe 1 0.500 # 2 pump 1 3 Col_1 1 1.000 # 3 pump 1 3 Col_2 1 1.000 # 4 pipe 1 3 pump 1 1.000 60.0 0.0 # 5 pump 1 3 pipe 1 1.000 # 6 I have to change something, but I do not know what. Thanks a lot. Regards Monika -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Haddad, Kamel Sent: Friday, April 13, 2007 1:56 PM To: Hall Monika; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Re: solar collector Dear Monica, The temperature of the collector is at the exit. It sounds you're connecting the pipe to the two collectors with the proper diversity ratio, namely 0.5, to each of the collectors The problem could be that the sum of the diversity ratios from each of the collectors to component donwstream of the collectors does not add up to 1 Kamel Haddad ________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk on behalf of Hall Monika Sent: Fri 13/04/2007 4:53 AM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] solar collector Dear all, does anybody have worked with a solar collector? What does the resulttemperatur means for the component collector? Is it the temperature at the collector exit or is it the mean temperatur of the collector, or ...? I want to split the water flow from one WCH pipe to two flat plate solar collectors "segment". If I connect the pipe with both collectors and each collector gets a half of the water flow (diversion ration: 0.5) I get an error massage because the number of nodes is not correct. After the collectors I want to unite the flow in one pipe, but there is the same problem. Dose anybody know how to split/unite the water flow? Thank you very much. Best regards Monika _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From rfajmat at hotmail.com Mon Apr 16 12:41:00 2007 From: rfajmat at hotmail.com (Raul Ajmat) Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 11:41:00 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Irradiation values Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070416/d0ca6086/attachment.html From paul at esru.strath.ac.uk Mon Apr 16 14:19:38 2007 From: paul at esru.strath.ac.uk (paul strachan) Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 14:19:38 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Irradiation values In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <462377EA.8030400@esru.strath.ac.uk> Raul, It is not possible to display the incident irradiation value for a transparent construction (although it can be extracted using the trace facility in the simulator). It is best to obtain it from an opaque surface in the same plane as the window. Regards Paul Raul Ajmat wrote: > Dear all , > > Is it possible to know non-obstructed irradiation values on the > exterior of a window surface ? > > May I assume SW rad from the 'surface energy balance' as the total > irradiation impinging that surface? > > Many thanks > > Raul > > From rfajmat at hotmail.com Tue Apr 17 12:23:45 2007 From: rfajmat at hotmail.com (Raul Ajmat) Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 11:23:45 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Absorbed radiation Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070417/49e3d64a/attachment.html From ibeausol at NRCan.gc.ca Tue Apr 17 18:13:36 2007 From: ibeausol at NRCan.gc.ca (Beausoleil-Morrison, Ian) Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 13:13:36 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] release of ESP-r version 11.3 Message-ID: Dear ESP-r users and developers, Version 11.3 of the ESP-r system is now available. A summary of the changes and new features included in this release is given at the bottom of this e-mail. The source code may be accessed via the ESP-r Central Subversion repository. To do this, you must first install a Subversion client on your system. Free clients are available at http://subversion.tigris.org/project_packages.html. Once you have installed the Subversion client you can download the source code for version 11.3 of ESP-r anonymously using the following command: svn checkout https://esp-r.net/espr/esp-r/trunk OR svn checkout http://esp-r.net/espr/esp-r/trunk If you previously downloaded version 11.1 or 11.2 with the above command, then you do not have to do a full download of version 11.3. Rather, you can update the source code by executing the following command from your "trunk" directory: svn update (ESP-r developers who wish to make source code contributions to ESP-r should contact me directly so that we can configure an account for you on ESP-r Central. Further information on ESP-r Central for developers is available on the ESRU web site.) ESP-r source code is available exclusively through ESP-r Central. However, ESRU will continue to produce and post pre-compiled versions for specific operating environments on its web site. These binary versions will generally be made available within a few days of a source code release and will be announced to this e-mail list. Release notes will also continue to be posted on the ESRU web site. Regards, - Ian Ian Beausoleil-Morrison ESP-r Archivist Natural Resources Canada Release Notes 11.3 (April 2007) ================= Generic Code Update ------------------- - Numerous changes have been made to accommodate native Windows file naming conventions (spaces, back slashes). This improves the functionality of ESP-r under native Windows. - Numerous changes have been made to improve the functionality of the GTK version of the project manager and climate analyzer. Simulator --------- - Support has been added for the CEN 13791 solar distribution rules. With this ESP-r passes on all CEN 13791 test cases. - Two mass flow components have been added: a regulated window vent and a roof mounted ventilation cowl. - Numerous changes have been made to the implementation of the Alberta Air Infiltration model (AIM-2): # The reporting of error messages during the reading of the AIM-2 input file has been improved. The simulator is now halted if an error occurs in the reading of the file. # The calculation of the wind flow factor for houses with crawl spaces has been added. # The user can supply the flow coefficient and exponent directly. # Numerous minor bugs have been repaired. # Data on this model has been added to the QA reports. - Two idealized HVAC models (GSHP and DHW) and the BASESIMP ground heat transfer model are dependent upon ground temperatures. Previously, each of these models read ground temperature parameters (annual average, amplitude of annual sine wave, and phase shift of annual sine wave) independently from input files. This functionality is preserved, but a new method has been implemented to calculate the required ground temperature parameters from the climate file. Three plant components of water storage tanks also make use of this new model. - A bug in the treatment of type 5 casual gains was repaired. Type 5 casual gains impose an electrical load as determined by the power flow modelling domain as a thermal load in the building thermal domain. A boolean error resulted in a temporal mis-match between the modelling domains. Project Manager --------------- - A 'cancel' button has been added in about 135 locations to improve program navigation. - The menu structure for the editing of control law period data has been revised to facilitate the description of controls. Documentation has also been improved and new exemplars have been created to demonstrate the use of some of the more obscure control laws. - A facility has been added to allow the importation of typical operations, air flow, and casual gain profiles. - Labels related to flow component 40 have been updated to remove the words 'volume flow' because it is actually an opening type. - The QA report could be confused by old control files having 6 items for a zone basic controller. This has been repaired. - Support has been added for 'silently' inserting opeings in surfaces. - Support has been added for the reading of a zip geometry format file (as produced by the Xzip program). - The functionality of the events profile database manager has been incorporated into the project manager to eliminate the need for this separate utility. - Some alterations have been made to the structure of the database menus to improve program navigation. - An option has been added to allow the export of version 1.2, 1.3, 1.4, and 2.0 EnergyPlus IDF files. - The format of the IPV report has been updated. A control has been added to allow the user to toggle between report formats. - The user input dialogue for the 'constant' boundary condition has been altered to allow the user to input a very high temperature boundary condition (as requested by one user). Results Analyzer ---------------- - An error in the reporting of surface absorbed solar radiation was corrected. Quality Control Utility ----------------------- - A number of new test cases have been added to the regression tester. - New functionality has been added to the regression tester to facilitate diagnosing errors. Climate Data ------------ - The documentation on solar radiation data has been improved in the ASCII data exported from the climate analyzer. Additional Changes ------------------ - Many additional changes have been made that are transparent to the user. Information on these, as well as further details on all the above-mentioned changes, can be found in ESP-r Central's change log by providing the following URL to your web browser: https://esp-r.net/wsvn/espr/wsvn/esp-r/. From gialloneroverde at gmail.com Wed Apr 18 10:56:49 2007 From: gialloneroverde at gmail.com (giulio benincasa) Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 11:56:49 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Time step control relaxation Message-ID: <67666d10704180256x4b6ffa2ew10c070f239ca68f0@mail.gmail.com> Dear all, I have read that is possible change relaxation parameter in source code to calm oscillations results arrange to (in the air-flow network) similar temperature nodes and flow-connections that have very little pressure drops across them. There is anybody that know tje soutce code file where make modify ?? Best regards Thank you in advance Giulio Benincasa -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070418/6a3d72f5/attachment.html From Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch Wed Apr 18 13:21:16 2007 From: Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch (Geissler Achim) Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 14:21:16 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Time step control relaxation References: <67666d10704180256x4b6ffa2ew10c070f239ca68f0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C109C41@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Hi Giulio, you have more than one possibility to get oscillating flow results under control: (1) Try changing various parameters in regard to the solver control: in simulator, after "initialize", g ... simulation toggles (pwd 101), g ... mass flow parameters, and / or (2) Use time step controller: in simulator, after "initialize", t ... invoke time-step controller, choice 4 (I think) was quite good (you need to have your time steps at hand, for which this should happen) and - last not least - (3) Change the relaxation parameter for the time-step controller in mfmach.f, lines 491 to 500. You need to uncomment these lines, then you can change the relaxation parameter (these work with choice 4 from above, as the source tells). 0.25 to 0.65 were useful values, I think (ESRU, please intervene if I am writing trash, here). Mit freundlichen Gr?ssen / Best regards Achim Geissler ________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of giulio benincasa Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2007 11:57 AM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Time step control relaxation Dear all, I have read that is possible change relaxation parameter in source code to calm oscillations results arrange to (in the air-flow network) similar temperature nodes and flow-connections that have very little pressure drops across them. There is anybody that know tje soutce code file where make modify ?? Best regards Thank you in advance Giulio Benincasa -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070418/54d25427/attachment.html From Gunter.Pueltz at MuellerBBM.de Wed Apr 18 14:29:01 2007 From: Gunter.Pueltz at MuellerBBM.de (Pueltz, Gunter) Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 15:29:01 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Time step control relaxation Message-ID: <2417729F3416D511A27E0090273A963B027872BC@smex01.mbbm.de> Dear Julio, in addition to Achim?s mail following informations: the default value of underelaxation is 0.25, which you can find in the source file /esrumfs/mfmach.F. But be aware that for activating underelaxation (for surpressing oscillations) you must de-comment the relaxation loop in the source-file mfmach.F first !!! In the standard source code the relaxation-loop is NOT valid (commented resp. deactivated) ..... Above the loop you will find a fortran line with the relax-factor of 0.25; you can change this value in the source code. But also be aware of the variable ITRPAS, which does - in the current version 11.2 (11.3 not yet investigated) - NOT work correctly. The value of ITRPAS always remains at the integer value of 0 and thus the if-condition never is fulfilled. In version 11.2 you also have to change this source line with the if-statement for activating underrelaxation .... Good luck with underelaxation (which?is VERY important for surpressing oscillations between thermal and air flow domain) ! regards, Gunter -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk]On Behalf Of giulio benincasa Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2007 11:57 AM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Time step control relaxation Dear all, I have read that is possible change relaxation parameter in source code to calm oscillations results arrange to (in the air-flow network) similar temperature nodes and flow-connections that have very little pressure drops across them. There is anybody that know tje soutce code file where make modify ?? Best regards Thank you in advance Giulio Benincasa -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070418/01e4492b/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Fri Apr 20 08:17:44 2007 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand (clcv10)) Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 08:17:44 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: recent question on solar radiation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Some recent questions about reporting solar radiation... > m trying to compare ESPr with other software based on climate data. > Some queries on that behalf: > > 1-the output 'Solar absorbed in zone' involves all the irradiation > absorbed by the building ? > > Is there any way to discriminate this data 'per surface'? Yes, part of the surface energy balance is the shortwave radiation absorbed (combined direct and diffuse) and you can get this in the surface energy balance report or select this data type in the timestep listing option or graph it in the graphing function or get statistics in the enquire about section of the results analysis module. > > 2-Can we assume that Solar Diffuse is the same as Diffuse > Horizontal (from the climate data )? This is likely to be true (solar data are a part of dozens of different reports). If you really want to be clear about the semantics look in the source code (see note below). We know of many users who have set up various virtual experiments which they have used to understand the distribution of radiation. > > 3- Which value represents 'Solar Direct'? Is that the horizontal > component of Direct Normal? > This depends on what type of direct solar radiation is held in the climate module. If you want to find out a lot more about how radiation is tracked within ESP-r you could turn on the solar trace option in the simulator. And in the source code look in esrubld/solar.F for more about the theory and calculations performed. -ESRU From doreen.kalz at ise.fraunhofer.de Tue Apr 24 18:28:12 2007 From: doreen.kalz at ise.fraunhofer.de (Doreen Kalz) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 19:28:12 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] controll: collector and floor radiant heating Message-ID: <462E3E2C.7080501@ise.fraunhofer.de> Dear all, I have a single zone model which should be heated by a slab embedded (floor) radiant heating system. As heat source I employ a solar collector (component 31). The pln file is the following: ... # The following is a list of component connections. 5 # Total number of connections # receiving node conncn sending node diversion # component type component ratio pipe1 1 3 solar 1 1.000 slab 1 3 pipe1 1 1.000 pipe2 1 3 slab 1 1.000 pump 1 3 pipe2 1 1.000 solar 1 3 pump 1 1.000 ... My question concers the control algorithm: I would like to control the water supply temperature from the collector and the operative zone temperature. So far I prevent the supply water temperatures to fall below a certain setpoint by enabling the pump in order not to cool the zone during the night. In my plant network the pump is the only component with a control variable, however, it allows just one variable to control. That is either the collector or the room temperature. I was wondering if anyone has an idea how to tackle the problem of setting a control taking two setpoint into account. Thank you very much! Best regards, Doreen -- Dipl.-Ing. Doreen Kalz Dep. Thermal Systems and Buildings Fraunhofer-Institut f?r Solare Energiesysteme ISE Heidenhofstrasse 2, 79110 Freiburg, Germany Phone: +49(0)761/4588-5403 Fax: +49(0)761/4588-9000 doreen.kalz at ise.fraunhofer.de http://www.ise.fraunhofer.de From ing.wong at ulster.ac.uk Wed Apr 25 09:49:52 2007 From: ing.wong at ulster.ac.uk (Ing Liang Wong) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 09:49:52 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] climate database Message-ID: <000601c78716$b1014830$19873dc1@wongcst> Hi all, I have some questions on the climate database: 1) Currently, the x-axis on the graphical analysis shows the time (hours). Would it be possible to change it to days? 2) Synoptic analysis has direct normal and diffuse horizontal solar radiation. I am interested in global radiation, however this data is not available in the database. Would it be reasonable to assume global radiation is equal to direct + diffuse radiation? Thank you. Regards, Wong -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070425/8b9eb043/attachment.html From M.Mirsadeghi at tue.nl Wed Apr 25 11:51:46 2007 From: M.Mirsadeghi at tue.nl (Mirsadeghi, M.) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 12:51:46 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Moisture Module in ESP-r Message-ID: Dear all, Has anyone had experience with using moisture flow analysis (in adaptive gridding and moisture module) in ESP-r? I would highly appreciate if someone could give me some information about how I can configure those control volumes, connections, node coordinates, and node temperatures files. Should they be configured manually? Best regards, Mohammad Mirsadeghi * * 040 247 2273 @ m.mirsadeghi at tue.nl i* http://sts.bwk.tue.nl/bps/medewerkers/ * P.O. Box 513, Vertigo 6.16, 5600 MB EINDHOVEN, The Netherlands -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070425/01fb3acf/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Wed Apr 25 17:28:47 2007 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand (clcv10)) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 17:28:47 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Availability of ESP-r Version 11.3 for Linux/Mac/Cygwin/Native Windows Message-ID: <18633D66-C720-4263-988C-DCE3002BE2E6@esru.strath.ac.uk> ESP-r version 11.3 binaries are now available Following last weeks notice of a new public distribution of ESP-r, the Energy Systems Research Unit in Glasgow have created single click installers for Linux, Mac OSX, Cygwin emulation on Windows machines as well as a Native windows version. The new installers can be found on the download page of http://www.esru.strath.ac.uk along with instructions. For best results, use a web browser other than Windows Explorer. The installers are 40-70MB depending on the computing platform. ESP-r is distributed under terms of the GNU GPL license so you can use if for any purpose allowed under that license. As per that license the source code of ESP-r can also be downloaded (instructions at the end of this email). Release Notes 11.3 (April 2007) ================= Generic Code Update ------------------- - Numerous changes have been made to accommodate native Windows file naming conventions (spaces, back slashes). This improves the functionality of ESP-r under native Windows. - Numerous changes have been made to improve the functionality of the GTK version of the project manager and climate analyzer. Simulator --------- - Support has been added for the CEN 13791 solar distribution rules. With this ESP-r passes on all CEN 13791 test cases. - Two mass flow components have been added: a regulated window vent and a roof mounted ventilation cowl. - Numerous changes have been made to the implementation of the Alberta Air Infiltration model (AIM-2). - Two idealized HVAC models (GSHP and DHW) and the BASESIMP ground heat transfer model can now use a new method to calculate ground temperatures. Three plant components of water storage tanks also make use of this new model. - A bug in the treatment of type 5 casual gains was repaired. Project Manager --------------- - A 'cancel' button has been added in ~135 locations to improve program navigation. - The menu structure for (most) zone control law editing has been revised to facilitate the description of controls. Documentation has also been improved and new exemplars have been created to demonstrate the use of about a dozen zone control laws. - A facility has been added to allow the importation of typical operations, air flow, and casual gain profiles. - Labels related to flow component 40 have been updated to remove the words 'volume flow' because it is actually an opening type. - The QA report could be confused by old control files and this has been repaired. - Support has been added for 'silently' inserting openings in surfaces. - Support has been added for the reading of a zip geometry format file (as produced by the Xzip program). - The functionality of the events profile database manager has been incorporated into the project manager to eliminate the need for this separate utility. - Some alterations have been made to the structure of the database menus to improve program navigation. - An option has been added to allow the export of version 1.2, 1.3, 1.4, and (some aspects of) 2.0 EnergyPlus IDF files. - The format of the IPV report has been updated. A control has been added to allow the user to toggle between IPV report formats. - The user input dialogue for the 'constant' boundary condition has been altered to allow the user to input a high temperature boundary condition (e.g. 500C). Results Analyzer ---------------- - An error in the reporting of surface absorbed solar radiation was corrected. Quality Control Utility ----------------------- - A number of new test cases have been added to the regression tester. - New functionality has been added to the regression tester to facilitate diagnosing errors. Climate Data ------------ - The documentation on solar radiation data has been improved in the ASCII data exported from the climate analyser. Additional Changes ------------------ - Many additional changes have been made that are transparent to the user. Further details can be found in ESP-r Central's change log by providing the following URL to your web browser: https://esp-r.net/wsvn/espr/wsvn/esp-r/. Details about the binary distributions: a) Linux installer for either the legacy X11 interface or the GTK based interface This has been tested on Mandriva and Fedora Core 4 and 5 as well as Ubuntu 6.10. The installer places ESP-r in /opt/esru now rather than the traditional (non-standard) /usr/esru folder. b) Mac OSX 10.4+ installer for PPC based computers for either the legacy X11 interface or the GTK based interface. It runs natively on PPC machines and in emulation mode on Intel based machines. The installer places ESP-r in / opt/esru. c) Cygwin emulation environment on Windows 2K/XP for either the legacy X11 interface or the GTK based interface. The installer places ESP- r in /usr/esru. d) Native windows uses a graphical installer and places the GTK based interface in C:/Esru Each installer has a matching documentation file that provides additional information. Source code: The source code may be accessed via the ESP-r Central Subversion repository. To do this, you must first install a Subversion client on your system. Free clients are available at http://subversion.tigris.org/project_packages.html. Once you have installed the Subversion client you can download the source code for version 11.3 of ESP-r anonymously using the following command: svn checkout https://esp-r.net/espr/esp-r/trunk OR svn checkout http://esp-r.net/espr/esp-r/trunk OR (to omit the svn bookkeeping files) svn export https://esp-r.net/espr/esp-r/trunk If you previously checked out version 11.1 or 11.2 with the above command, then you do not have to do a full download of version 11.3. Rather, you can update the source code by executing the following command from your "trunk" directory: svn update If you previously used svn export then you must repeat the export command to get ESP-r. We recommend this update to all current users of ESP-r. If you have not joined the community these installers can get you up and exploring! -ESRU From dlithgow at gmail.com Thu Apr 26 13:58:24 2007 From: dlithgow at gmail.com (Duncan Lithgow) Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 14:58:24 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Availability of ESP-r Version 11.3 for Linux/Mac/Cygwin/Native Windows In-Reply-To: <18633D66-C720-4263-988C-DCE3002BE2E6@esru.strath.ac.uk> References: <18633D66-C720-4263-988C-DCE3002BE2E6@esru.strath.ac.uk> Message-ID: Great. Thanks for the new release. Are there any plans to make a package of documentation which can be accessed from a 'Help > Documentation' button? As a new user that would be much appreciated for a future release. Duncan From Monika.Hall at josef-gartner.ch Fri May 4 08:38:24 2007 From: Monika.Hall at josef-gartner.ch (Hall Monika) Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 09:38:24 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Analysis for PPD Message-ID: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C10A588@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Dear all, I'm a little bit confused about the analysis for PPD. In the resultant analysis, the PPD could be calculated automatically for each zone. Is this PPD applied to the center of the zone? What can I do to get the PPD at a given position in a zone? Unfortunately, I can not choose a mrt-sensor to calculate the PPD. Best regards Monika -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070504/47b4dd96/attachment.html From ryousaf at ise.fhg.de Fri May 4 17:03:39 2007 From: ryousaf at ise.fhg.de (Rehan Yousaf) Date: Fri, 04 May 2007 18:03:39 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] sensor problem BCL00 error. Message-ID: <463B595B.6040307@ise.fhg.de> Hi all When i try to simulate a radiant ceiling cooling for a multizonal (21 zones) building i take the following steps for a simple control strategy and check first one zone only. 1. Sensor senses a mix of zone db temperature and MRT 2. Actuator is in the surface of ceiling (tried different variations by putting the actuator at different nodes). 3. Define a basic heating/cooling controller with limited/unlimited flux. 4. Define period data, link to the zone. Result */BCL00 error: iteration limit exceeded. Time 7.00 Year Day 303/* If i change the sensor to sense the zone db temperature then the problem doesn't occur. I understand the db temperature is the zone dry bulb air temperature and not a mix of radiant and air temperature. Refereing to zone sensors, what is the difference between a. senses current zone db temperature c. dry bulb temperature o. senses temperature in a specific zone. Is there a way that i can impel esp-r to sense a mix of db and radiant temperature (to base my control on else i overestimate the energy demand) Regards Rehan From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Tue May 8 10:39:46 2007 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand (clcv10)) Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 10:39:46 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: controll: collector and floor radiant heating In-Reply-To: <462E3E2C.7080501@ise.fraunhofer.de> References: <462E3E2C.7080501@ise.fraunhofer.de> Message-ID: <402A56C0-98D8-402A-B5AB-024E929BBDD2@esru.strath.ac.uk> A recent question about using two sensors for a solar collector control... > In my plant network the pump is the only component with a control > variable, however, it allows just one variable to control. That is > either the collector or the room temperature. > > I was wondering if anyone has an idea how to tackle the problem of > setting a control taking two setpoint into account. > There is a way to have multiple sensors in a mass flow control but this is not yet supported for system components. It might take some time for such an option to be enabled. It would help if we could collect detailed specifications of what multiple sensor control logic that might be useful to support. If you have specific opinions please send them (even better if there was a logic diagram included) to jon at esru.strath.ac.uk -ESRU From Monika.Hall at josef-gartner.ch Wed May 9 12:39:34 2007 From: Monika.Hall at josef-gartner.ch (Hall Monika) Date: Wed, 9 May 2007 13:39:34 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] "slab-on-grade hydronic floor" to activate concret slabs Message-ID: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C12CAC1@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Dear esp-r users, I use the plant component "slab-on-grade hydronic floor" to activate concret slabs. Does anybody know what the parameter " Injection node number (integer)" means? I down loaded the report from Mr Laouadi: "Development of a radiant heating and cooling model for building energy simulation software", but I did not found what it could be. It would be nice, if somebody could help me. Best regards Monika -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070509/3703c6fd/attachment.html From Abdelaziz.Laouadi at nrc-cnrc.gc.ca Wed May 9 14:46:00 2007 From: Abdelaziz.Laouadi at nrc-cnrc.gc.ca (Laouadi, Aziz) Date: Wed, 9 May 2007 09:46:00 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] Re: "slab-on-grade hydronic floor" to activate concret slabs In-Reply-To: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C12CAC1@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Message-ID: <5910A0754536EA4AAD411AE8221C3962036AE47D@nrccenexb1.nrc.ca> Dear Monika, The "injection node number" means the node in the construction layer where heat is injected in or retrieved from (in other words, the position of the water pipe in the layer). Note that ESP-r uses three nodes per construction layer and the node numbering starts from the exterior. Example: insulated slab on grade: Layer 1- insulation in contact with ground: node 1 (surface in contact with ground, 2 (centre) and 3 (surface in contact with slab). Layer 2-concrete slab in contact with interior environment: node 4 (surface in contact with insulation, 5 (centre) and 6 (surface in contact with room air). So if pipes are placed in the centre of slab, the injection node number will then be 5. Note, you may add additional layers on top of slab, or you may sub-divide a thick slab into a number of sublayers to get more accurate results. In this case, just follow the node numbering as explained above or in ESP-r manual. I hope this helps. A. Laouadi ________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Hall Monika Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 7:40 AM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] "slab-on-grade hydronic floor" to activate concret slabs Dear esp-r users, I use the plant component "slab-on-grade hydronic floor" to activate concret slabs. Does anybody know what the parameter " Injection node number (integer)" means? I down loaded the report from Mr Laouadi: "Development of a radiant heating and cooling model for building energy simulation software", but I did not found what it could be. It would be nice, if somebody could help me. Best regards Monika -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070509/1a06bd87/attachment.html From Monika.Hall at josef-gartner.ch Wed May 9 15:23:34 2007 From: Monika.Hall at josef-gartner.ch (Hall Monika) Date: Wed, 9 May 2007 16:23:34 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: "slab-on-grade hydronic floor" to activate concret slabs References: <5910A0754536EA4AAD411AE8221C3962036AE47D@nrccenexb1.nrc.ca> Message-ID: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C12CB1F@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Dear Mr. Laouadi, thank you very much. Now it is clear. Kind regards Monika ________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Laouadi, Aziz Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 3:46 PM To: Hall Monika; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Re: "slab-on-grade hydronic floor" to activate concret slabs Dear Monika, The "injection node number" means the node in the construction layer where heat is injected in or retrieved from (in other words, the position of the water pipe in the layer). Note that ESP-r uses three nodes per construction layer and the node numbering starts from the exterior. Example: insulated slab on grade: Layer 1- insulation in contact with ground: node 1 (surface in contact with ground, 2 (centre) and 3 (surface in contact with slab). Layer 2-concrete slab in contact with interior environment: node 4 (surface in contact with insulation, 5 (centre) and 6 (surface in contact with room air). So if pipes are placed in the centre of slab, the injection node number will then be 5. Note, you may add additional layers on top of slab, or you may sub-divide a thick slab into a number of sublayers to get more accurate results. In this case, just follow the node numbering as explained above or in ESP-r manual. I hope this helps. A. Laouadi ________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Hall Monika Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 7:40 AM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] "slab-on-grade hydronic floor" to activate concret slabs Dear esp-r users, I use the plant component "slab-on-grade hydronic floor" to activate concret slabs. Does anybody know what the parameter " Injection node number (integer)" means? I down loaded the report from Mr Laouadi: "Development of a radiant heating and cooling model for building energy simulation software", but I did not found what it could be. It would be nice, if somebody could help me. Best regards Monika -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070509/dcb20e79/attachment.html From ryousaf at ise.fhg.de Mon May 14 09:51:25 2007 From: ryousaf at ise.fhg.de (Rehan Yousaf) Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 10:51:25 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Zone limitation/ control limitation? Message-ID: <4648230D.7010604@ise.fhg.de> Hi all I try to simulate a 21 zone model. With different control structures. 1. To simulate the activated ceilings (in simplest form), i place the actuator in the middle node of the concrete ceiling with an ideal heating/cooling control. 2. To simulate an activated ceiling panel (in simplest form), i place the actuator at the inside face of the ceiling with an ideal heating/cooling control. 3. There are some zones which are free floating so there is no control. 4. There are some zones where i make the control over the zone air points. The problem is 1. When i run the simulation with the start up days calculated by esp-r itself (63 days in my case), i get a totally false result with zone temperatures reaching to -200?C and 200 ?C 2. When i run the simulation with lower start up days (3 days), i get a rather realistic temperature profiles in the ground floor (7 Zones) and on the upper most floor (6 Zones) but totally un realistic temperatures in the middle zones. (reaching above 70?C). 3. I tried to configure the problem by saving the results using save option 3. i.e. to get the information about node temperature. Node temperatures in the middle zone (with false results) were reaching 98?C where as in other zones they seemed to be ok for the first run(around 35?C). Can it be due to the number of zones (21) and a number of controls? Can someone give an advice. Regards Rehan From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Tue May 15 15:31:50 2007 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand (clcv10)) Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 15:31:50 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Zone limitation/ control limitation? In-Reply-To: <4648230D.7010604@ise.fhg.de> References: <4648230D.7010604@ise.fhg.de> Message-ID: Recent question on injecting heat or extracting heat from a node in a partition.... > 1. To simulate the activated ceilings (in simplest form), i place the > actuator in the middle node of the concrete ceiling with an ideal > heating/cooling control. > Currentlly zone controls which actuate within a construction only work for surfaces that face the outside or the ground. The bookkeeping is incomplete for injection of flux into a partition separating two zones. There are two alternatives: a) use the thin zone method which is demonstrated by the cellular_flh (cellular offices with idealized floor heating) exemplar. b) associate a plant system component with the construction (which conceptually works, but there is not yet a clear exemplar explaining how this works). -ESRU From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Tue May 15 15:40:31 2007 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand (clcv10)) Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 15:40:31 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: sensor problem BCL00 error. In-Reply-To: <463B595B.6040307@ise.fhg.de> References: <463B595B.6040307@ise.fhg.de> Message-ID: A recent control sensor location question.... > I understand the db temperature is the zone dry bulb air > temperature and > not a mix of radiant and air temperature. > Refereing to zone sensors, what is the difference between > a. senses current zone db temperature > c. dry bulb temperature > o. senses temperature in a specific zone. > If a control loop will be used by several zones then option 'a' can be used. The more simple control laws might be referenced several times. Option 'c' most likely refers to the climate file dry bulb temperature (if the other portions of the interface seem to be referring to climate data). Option 'o' is used when the control law requires a specific zone or if for clarity the user wants to create a separate control regime for each zone and wants there to be no ambiguity in the specification of the location. -ESRU From driessea at post.queensu.ca Wed May 16 21:38:13 2007 From: driessea at post.queensu.ca (Anton Driesse) Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 16:38:13 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] Non-uniform temperature in a wall Message-ID: <464B6BB5.2090007@post.queensu.ca> If I want to model a non-uniform temperature in a wall with non-uniform distribution of incident solar radiation, do I have to manually split the wall into a sufficient number of small surfaces or does ESP-r do this for me? Is there a reference or section in the documentation that discusses this topic? Thanks! Anton From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Thu May 17 17:10:41 2007 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand (clcv10)) Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 17:10:41 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Non-uniform temperature in a wall In-Reply-To: <464B6BB5.2090007@post.queensu.ca> References: <464B6BB5.2090007@post.queensu.ca> Message-ID: A recent question about geometric resolution... > If I want to model a non-uniform temperature in a wall with non- > uniform distribution of incident solar radiation, do I have to > manually split the wall into a sufficient number of small surfaces > or does ESP-r do this for me? > > Is there a reference or section in the documentation that discusses > this topic? > ESP-r does not subdivide surfaces for you (good idea though)! There are examples of this - look in the set of cellular_office exemplars between the base case and the high resolution variant which subdivides some of the walls. There is another which also includes surfaces floating in the room to represent furniture. Hint - some people subdivide surfaces to better track sun patches in a room at different seasons. To get a good idea if this is an issue use the 'view from sun' at different times of the year. What you can see in the wireframe is what the sun can see so you can quickly see what parts of the room might get sunlight at different times of the day or year. One note - if you subdivide the base of the zone into more than six surfaces you will have to manually add up the floor area and give this number in the geometry menu under 'base area'. -ESRU From jordan.richie at utoronto.ca Thu May 17 20:55:39 2007 From: jordan.richie at utoronto.ca (jordan.richie at utoronto.ca) Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 15:55:39 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] solar obstructions Message-ID: <20070517155539.5npequ1svy1w0k0o@webmail.utoronto.ca> How is the construction of a solar obstruction used in shading analysis? I want to represent the shading provided by another building. Thanks. Jordan Richie From rfajmat at hotmail.com Fri May 18 19:41:53 2007 From: rfajmat at hotmail.com (Raul Ajmat) Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 18:41:53 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Zone temperature Message-ID: Hi All I'm comparing a Thermal model against ESP-r when comparing Zone temprature I observe that ESP-r has periods of constant temperature (i.e. 19C which is the hsp) for a few hours whereas the other model varies constantly. Is there any reason in the parameters I should fix in ESP ? Attached there are two files with the temps. Many thanks Raul Ajmat _________________________________________________________________ Connect to the next generation of MSN Messenger? http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/default.aspx?locale=en-us&source=wlmailtagline -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070518/2e4823de/attachment-0001.html -------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: TempBirmingham180507.txt Url: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070518/2e4823de/attachment-0001.txt -------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: taBirmingham0points.dat Url: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070518/2e4823de/attachment-0001.ksh From oliver.bucks at club-internet.fr Mon May 21 10:24:23 2007 From: oliver.bucks at club-internet.fr (Oliver Bucks) Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 11:24:23 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: solar obstructions References: <20070517155539.5npequ1svy1w0k0o@webmail.utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <001301c79b89$d2423e50$8e00a8c0@olli> Dear Jordan, In general, the solar obstruction should block out the sun's energy. However, care should be taken when dimensionning the obstructions - if the height or length of the obstruction is smaller than the resolution of the grid ESP-R projects onto the shaded surface(s), its shading will not be taken into account..... The grid size can be manually set in the shading and insolation window. Hope this helps.... Olli Bucks ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 9:55 PM Subject: [esp-r] solar obstructions > How is the construction of a solar obstruction used in shading > analysis? I want to represent the shading provided by another building. > > Thanks. > > Jordan Richie > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.6/813 - Release Date: 20/05/2007 > 07:54 > > From jordan.richie at utoronto.ca Tue May 22 19:13:52 2007 From: jordan.richie at utoronto.ca (jordan.richie at utoronto.ca) Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 14:13:52 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] Re: solar obstructions In-Reply-To: <001301c79b89$d2423e50$8e00a8c0@olli> References: <20070517155539.5npequ1svy1w0k0o@webmail.utoronto.ca> <001301c79b89$d2423e50$8e00a8c0@olli> Message-ID: <20070522141352.j4i1h3iy6vr4wg8o@webmail.utoronto.ca> Thanks Oliver. My question was probably too ambiguous, though. When you define an obstruction you can also attribute a composition/construction to it (e.g. extern_wall). My question is: How does obstruction composition/construction affect shading/insolation analysis? Are only optical properties of the construction considered? Quoting Oliver Bucks : > Dear Jordan, > > In general, the solar obstruction should block out the sun's energy. However, > care should be taken when dimensionning the obstructions - if the height or > length of the obstruction is smaller than the resolution of the grid ESP-R > projects onto the shaded surface(s), its shading will not be taken into > account..... The grid size can be manually set in the shading and insolation > window. > > Hope this helps.... > > Olli Bucks > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 9:55 PM > Subject: [esp-r] solar obstructions > > >> How is the construction of a solar obstruction used in shading >> analysis? I want to represent the shading provided by another building. >> >> Thanks. >> >> Jordan Richie >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> esp-r mailing list >> esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk >> http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r >> >> >> >> >> -- >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >> Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.6/813 - Release Date: 20/05/2007 >> 07:54 >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > Jordan Richie Adaptation & Impacts Research Division Environment Canada at the University of Toronto Centre for Environment 33 Willcocks Street Toronto, Ontario M5S 3E8 Cell: (416) 436-1505 jordan.richie at utoronto.ca From Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch Wed May 23 07:07:48 2007 From: Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch (Geissler Achim) Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 08:07:48 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: solar obstructions References: <20070517155539.5npequ1svy1w0k0o@webmail.utoronto.ca><001301c79b89$d2423e50$8e00a8c0@olli> <20070522141352.j4i1h3iy6vr4wg8o@webmail.utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C12D1A2@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Hi Jordan, as far as I remember, obstructions are nonreflective ("totally black") and non-translucent ("totally opaque"). The material is used for interaction with Radiance, only, I think. Actually, having surface properties of "glass louvers" or "stainless steel louvers" taken into account as obstructions would be a nice feature ... Regards, Achim Mit freundlichen Gr?ssen / Best regards Achim Geissler > -----Original Message----- > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r- > bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of jordan.richie at utoronto.ca > Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 8:14 PM > To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Subject: [esp-r] Re: solar obstructions > > Thanks Oliver. > > My question was probably too ambiguous, though. When you define an > obstruction you can also attribute a composition/construction to it > (e.g. extern_wall). My question is: How does obstruction > composition/construction affect shading/insolation analysis? Are only > optical properties of the construction considered? > > > Quoting Oliver Bucks : > > > Dear Jordan, > > > > In general, the solar obstruction should block out the sun's energy. > However, > > care should be taken when dimensionning the obstructions - if the height > or > > length of the obstruction is smaller than the resolution of the grid > ESP-R > > projects onto the shaded surface(s), its shading will not be taken into > > account..... The grid size can be manually set in the shading and > insolation > > window. > > > > Hope this helps.... > > > > Olli Bucks > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: > > Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 9:55 PM > > Subject: [esp-r] solar obstructions > > > > > >> How is the construction of a solar obstruction used in shading > >> analysis? I want to represent the shading provided by another building. > >> > >> Thanks. > >> > >> Jordan Richie > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> esp-r mailing list > >> esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > >> http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> No virus found in this incoming message. > >> Checked by AVG Free Edition. > >> Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.6/813 - Release Date: > 20/05/2007 > >> 07:54 > >> > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > esp-r mailing list > > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > > > > > > Jordan Richie > Adaptation & Impacts Research Division > Environment Canada at the University of Toronto > Centre for Environment > 33 Willcocks Street > Toronto, Ontario M5S 3E8 > Cell: (416) 436-1505 > jordan.richie at utoronto.ca > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch Wed May 23 09:29:01 2007 From: Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch (Geissler Achim) Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 10:29:01 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Recent Developers Conference Message-ID: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C12D1EF@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Hi Community, in March, there was very interesting information going back and forth in this group. The focus was the Developer Conference in Glasgow on 22 - 25 March, I think it was. Do any participants (or ESRU?) have minutes or the like they could / would like to share as to what went on and what will be happening the next few months / years / whatever? I - for one - would be very curious ... Thanks for any snippets anybody wants to share, best regards, Achim Geissler Josef Gartner Switzerland AG -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070523/b28a5a1b/attachment.html From patrmccormack at gmail.com Thu May 24 16:25:50 2007 From: patrmccormack at gmail.com (pat mc cormack) Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 16:25:50 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] install on linux Message-ID: <5cef8f8e0705240825q7aac8071mac2b2b07b2bb43de@mail.gmail.com> Hi I have tried to install the latest binary linux on three machines running ubuntu, suse and SmartCom(RHEL rebuilt). On all of them esp-r refuses to start saying it can't find libg2c.so.0 the library is there okay in /usr/lib where you'd expect. How do I fix it? What path is esp-r trying to use to find libraries? Thanks Pat McCormack -- "Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force; like fire, a troublesome servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action." -- George Washington (1732-1799) Founding Father, 1st US President, 'Father of the Country' Source: in a speech of January 7, 1790 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070524/540a0aca/attachment.html From denny at esru.strath.ac.uk Thu May 24 17:19:59 2007 From: denny at esru.strath.ac.uk (Denny Beyer) Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 17:19:59 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: install on linux In-Reply-To: <5cef8f8e0705240825q7aac8071mac2b2b07b2bb43de@mail.gmail.com> References: <5cef8f8e0705240825q7aac8071mac2b2b07b2bb43de@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200705241719.59840.denny@esru.strath.ac.uk> Installation of ESP-r on recent versions of Linux distributions. The installer doesn't check if you got the necessary tools installed on your machine. So make sure, you got a compatibility package for the f77 compiler (the previous fortran compiler) installed. Search for "compat" and "f77". E.g on SuSE Linux (10.1; 10.2) the package is called "compat-g77" You can test if you got the package with /> rpm -qa | grep -ni "compat-g77" which should give you something like: 512:compat-g77-3.3.5-42.1 if not you'll find it if you go to Yast=>Software=>Software Management and do a search for it and install it. This should solve the problem. denny On Thursday 24 May 2007 16:25, pat mc cormack wrote: > Hi > I have tried to install the latest binary linux on three machines running > ubuntu, suse and SmartCom(RHEL rebuilt). > On all of them esp-r refuses to start saying it can't find libg2c.so.0 > the library is there okay in /usr/lib where you'd expect. > How do I fix it? What path is esp-r trying to use to find libraries? > > Thanks > Pat McCormack From pat.ethree at gmail.com Thu May 24 17:15:05 2007 From: pat.ethree at gmail.com (pat mc cormack) Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 17:15:05 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] install on linux Message-ID: <5cef8f8e0705240915w6363056em3753d4c0e8311107@mail.gmail.com> Hi I have tried to install the latest binary linux on three machines running ubuntu, suse and SmartCom(RHEL rebuilt). On all of them esp-r refuses to start saying it can't find libg2c.so.0 the library is there okay in /usr/lib where you'd expect. How do I fix it? What path is esp-r trying to use to find libraries? Thanks Pat McCormack -- "Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force; like fire, a troublesome servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action." -- George Washington (1732-1799) Founding Father, 1st US President, 'Father of the Country' Source: in a speech of January 7, 1790 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070524/fc90fe39/attachment.html From Monika.Hall at josef-gartner.ch Fri May 25 10:06:28 2007 From: Monika.Hall at josef-gartner.ch (Hall Monika) Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 11:06:28 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: "slab-on-grade hydronic floor" to activate concret slabs References: <5910A0754536EA4AAD411AE8221C3962036AE47D@nrccenexb1.nrc.ca> Message-ID: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C12D421@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Dear Mr. Laouadi, I checked your numeration with my model. I have 2 layers of concret: 1 layer: concret 2 layer: concret with pipes placed in the centre With your numeration the pipes are at node 5, but my model does not work with node 5, it works with node 4. After doing some research in the book of Mr. Clark and the thesis of Mr. Nakhi it is clear: "Each layer of material is represented by two surface nodes and one central node. The two surface nodes at the layer interface are combined into one heterogeneous control volumen represented by a central node." (Nakhi) That means for my model Layer 1: node 1 (surfac in contact with ground or air), node 2 (centre), node 3 (surface in contact with layer 2) Layer 2: node 3 (surface in contact with layer 1), node 4 (centre with pipes), node 5 (surface in contact with air) Best regards Monika ________________________________ From: Laouadi, Aziz [mailto:Abdelaziz.Laouadi at nrc-cnrc.gc.ca] Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 3:46 PM To: Hall Monika; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: RE: [esp-r] "slab-on-grade hydronic floor" to activate concret slabs Dear Monika, The "injection node number" means the node in the construction layer where heat is injected in or retrieved from (in other words, the position of the water pipe in the layer). Note that ESP-r uses three nodes per construction layer and the node numbering starts from the exterior. Example: insulated slab on grade: Layer 1- insulation in contact with ground: node 1 (surface in contact with ground, 2 (centre) and 3 (surface in contact with slab). Layer 2-concrete slab in contact with interior environment: node 4 (surface in contact with insulation, 5 (centre) and 6 (surface in contact with room air). So if pipes are placed in the centre of slab, the injection node number will then be 5. Note, you may add additional layers on top of slab, or you may sub-divide a thick slab into a number of sublayers to get more accurate results. In this case, just follow the node numbering as explained above or in ESP-r manual. I hope this helps. A. Laouadi ________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Hall Monika Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 7:40 AM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] "slab-on-grade hydronic floor" to activate concret slabs Dear esp-r users, I use the plant component "slab-on-grade hydronic floor" to activate concret slabs. Does anybody know what the parameter " Injection node number (integer)" means? I down loaded the report from Mr Laouadi: "Development of a radiant heating and cooling model for building energy simulation software", but I did not found what it could be. It would be nice, if somebody could help me. Best regards Monika -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070525/ebc22367/attachment.html From Abdelaziz.Laouadi at nrc-cnrc.gc.ca Fri May 25 14:34:02 2007 From: Abdelaziz.Laouadi at nrc-cnrc.gc.ca (Laouadi, Aziz) Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 09:34:02 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] Re: "slab-on-grade hydronic floor" to activate concret slabs In-Reply-To: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C12D421@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Message-ID: <5910A0754536EA4AAD411AE8221C3962036AE4AC@nrccenexb1.nrc.ca> Dear Monika, Your are right in node numbering of slab layers. I missed the common node in my fist reply! A Laouadi ________________________________ From: Hall Monika [mailto:Monika.Hall at josef-gartner.ch] Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 5:06 AM To: Laouadi, Aziz; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: RE: [esp-r] "slab-on-grade hydronic floor" to activate concret slabs Dear Mr. Laouadi, I checked your numeration with my model. I have 2 layers of concret: 1 layer: concret 2 layer: concret with pipes placed in the centre With your numeration the pipes are at node 5, but my model does not work with node 5, it works with node 4. After doing some research in the book of Mr. Clark and the thesis of Mr. Nakhi it is clear: "Each layer of material is represented by two surface nodes and one central node. The two surface nodes at the layer interface are combined into one heterogeneous control volumen represented by a central node." (Nakhi) That means for my model Layer 1: node 1 (surfac in contact with ground or air), node 2 (centre), node 3 (surface in contact with layer 2) Layer 2: node 3 (surface in contact with layer 1), node 4 (centre with pipes), node 5 (surface in contact with air) Best regards Monika ________________________________ From: Laouadi, Aziz [mailto:Abdelaziz.Laouadi at nrc-cnrc.gc.ca] Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 3:46 PM To: Hall Monika; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: RE: [esp-r] "slab-on-grade hydronic floor" to activate concret slabs Dear Monika, The "injection node number" means the node in the construction layer where heat is injected in or retrieved from (in other words, the position of the water pipe in the layer). Note that ESP-r uses three nodes per construction layer and the node numbering starts from the exterior. Example: insulated slab on grade: Layer 1- insulation in contact with ground: node 1 (surface in contact with ground, 2 (centre) and 3 (surface in contact with slab). Layer 2-concrete slab in contact with interior environment: node 4 (surface in contact with insulation, 5 (centre) and 6 (surface in contact with room air). So if pipes are placed in the centre of slab, the injection node number will then be 5. Note, you may add additional layers on top of slab, or you may sub-divide a thick slab into a number of sublayers to get more accurate results. In this case, just follow the node numbering as explained above or in ESP-r manual. I hope this helps. A. Laouadi ________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Hall Monika Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 7:40 AM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] "slab-on-grade hydronic floor" to activate concret slabs Dear esp-r users, I use the plant component "slab-on-grade hydronic floor" to activate concret slabs. Does anybody know what the parameter " Injection node number (integer)" means? I down loaded the report from Mr Laouadi: "Development of a radiant heating and cooling model for building energy simulation software", but I did not found what it could be. It would be nice, if somebody could help me. Best regards Monika -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070525/cb4f5ad9/attachment.html From pat.ethree at gmail.com Tue May 29 08:06:46 2007 From: pat.ethree at gmail.com (pat mc cormack) Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 08:06:46 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] simulation run question Message-ID: <5cef8f8e0705290006j2d8195b4lda956c37ddf1e16c@mail.gmail.com> This may sound daft but.. when I run a simulation using 'run silently' how do I know when it is finished? The stdout shows the start okay but no ending that I can see. Ta Pat -- "Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force; like fire, a troublesome servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action." -- George Washington (1732-1799) Founding Father, 1st US President, 'Father of the Country' Source: in a speech of January 7, 1790 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070529/66e65f4e/attachment.html From Monika.Hall at josef-gartner.ch Tue May 29 14:49:33 2007 From: Monika.Hall at josef-gartner.ch (Hall Monika) Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 15:49:33 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: simulation run question References: <5cef8f8e0705290006j2d8195b4lda956c37ddf1e16c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C12D582@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Dear Pat, you can track the simulation status in the window below the window with the scetch of the model. There you can see the percentage of simulation which is finished. In general it counts 5% finished, 25%, 50%, 75%, 90% ... (or something like that, it denpends on the numbers of timesteps). If the simulation is finished, the window jumps back to the "standard" window and the "result anlysis" menu could be activated. Otherwise there is something wrong. I hope this helps you. Best regards Monika ________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of pat mc cormack Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 9:07 AM To: esp-r Subject: [esp-r] simulation run question This may sound daft but.. when I run a simulation using 'run silently' how do I know when it is finished? The stdout shows the start okay but no ending that I can see. Ta Pat -- "Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force; like fire, a troublesome servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action." -- George Washington (1732-1799) Founding Father, 1st US President, 'Father of the Country' Source: in a speech of January 7, 1790 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070529/fbfdf75c/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Tue May 29 15:12:17 2007 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand (clcv10)) Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 15:12:17 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: simulation run question In-Reply-To: <5cef8f8e0705290006j2d8195b4lda956c37ddf1e16c@mail.gmail.com> References: <5cef8f8e0705290006j2d8195b4lda956c37ddf1e16c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: A question about 'silent running' simulation.... The silent running option is best used once you have proven that the simulation runs ok interactively. If the simulation runs correctly in silent mode it will stop automatically without any intervention from the user. A never ending simulation might just be a massive simulation - like someone taking a 50 zone building and running it at one minute timesteps and it might look like it is not doing anything. This particularly manifests itself with the GTK graphics version which tends to not give much feedback while it is running. Note there are options to monitor the simulation as it progresses (in terms of zone temperatures and heat injections). When to use silent-mode? Some practitioners write scripts to automate runs and use the silent option. -ESRU From thanos79 at gmail.com Tue May 29 20:17:42 2007 From: thanos79 at gmail.com (Athanasios Sakkas) Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 21:17:42 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Esp-r linux install Message-ID: <86fcba180705291217r2075f663ke2c2c87dcdf124a5@mail.gmail.com> hello, I tried to install the new Esp-r binaries to my new linux system. It is a Fedora 6 sys. However i do not know how to change the PATH that is required! could someone please help me? (I am a bit new on linux so please be analytical -- i mean exact commands--) thank very mach in advance for your help. best regards Thanasis -- Sakkas Athanasios Thanos79 at gmail.com Thanasis1979 at yahoo.com Laxana 24, Thessaloniki, 54638, Greece G. Staurou 14, Larissa, 41221, Greece +302310843636 +302410288691 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070529/6724dcc8/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Wed May 30 10:13:48 2007 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand (clcv10)) Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 10:13:48 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Esp-r linux install In-Reply-To: <86fcba180705291217r2075f663ke2c2c87dcdf124a5@mail.gmail.com> References: <86fcba180705291217r2075f663ke2c2c87dcdf124a5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: A recent question about setting up ESP-r on Linux.... > However i do not know how to change the PATH that is required! > could someone please help me? > (I am a bit new on linux so please be analytical -- i mean exact > commands--) > thank very mach in advance for your help. > ESRU are not in a position to provide operating system training. Perhaps others in the community will also contribute. Indeed, the archives of this discussion list probably have several discussions. And the Readme on the ESRU download web page should say something about this. You need to know where you installed the ESP-r modules (e.g. prj res bps) on your machine. And then you can add the correct environment variables. As an example, if the ESP-r executables are in /opt/esru/esp-r/bin look for a file .bash_profile in your home folder In .bash_profile there is a line that starts PATH=$PATH:$HOME/bin this should become PATH=$PATH:$HOME/bin:/opt/esru/bin:/opt/esru/esp-r/bin Log out and the next time you log in you should be able to give the command which prj and have it respond with /opt/esru/esp-r/bin/prj. If you get this then you should be able to start prj from a graphic terminal. Linux is a learnable skill, best of luck. -ESRU From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Wed May 30 17:12:27 2007 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand (clcv10)) Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 17:12:27 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Summary of March ESP-r developers workshop Message-ID: Here is a summary (the same text as was sent to the IBPSA newsletter) about the recent ESP-r developers workshop that was held in Glasgow. Separately I will send out further information about the tasks that were decided on. Regards, Jon Hand --------------------------- ESP-r developers conference held in Glasgow A two day ESP-r developers conference was held in Glasgow Scotland on the 22 and 23 of March and involved participants and presentations from the UK, Canada, Korea, Germany, France, The Netherlands and Switzerland. The weather was brilliant as was the pub and dinner conversation after the sessions. The conference began with a review of the current state of the software suite and work underway at various development sites. This included the results of last years decision to move to a single global source code repository under source code control and feedback from users of the native Windows version. A policy workshop drew up a list of critical issues to bring more 'new blood' into the developer and user community, approach to standards compliance and validation efforts in various countries around the world, as well as how to consolidate the facilities offered by the suite. The conference was timely in that there are several groups actively working on advances in the treatment of blinds and the tracking of solar radiation through multiple rooms (e.g. Atria and double skin facades) and the presentations and discussions clarified a number of issues and found ways for cooperation. The conference identified a number of existing features to mainstream (e.g. adaptive convective regimes, controls based on multiple sensors) as well as points where consolidation was needed (example models, documentation) and options for supporting users (a Wiki will be started by several participants) and country specific databases will be generated. There are a number of approaches used in the ESP-r community to deliver assessment results such as the in-built results recovery and analysis tool, user customisable meters generating XML output and a new Java tool that allows reviewing a matrix of performance metrics within a matrix of models. A decision was made to explore further how the XML output could become more accessable to non-geeks. A workshop was held outlining the organisation of the source code repository, how the design of the repository has responded to over 900 submissions during the year. There was an extended 'svn for the less-geeky' session from which participants emerged rather less confused. Several sites which had been working in isolation agreed to link more tightly with the core developers. A decision was also made to include several of the BESTEST and CEN test suites within the automated testing regime. From thanos79 at gmail.com Wed May 30 17:48:19 2007 From: thanos79 at gmail.com (Athanasios Sakkas) Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 18:48:19 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Esp-r linux install In-Reply-To: References: <86fcba180705291217r2075f663ke2c2c87dcdf124a5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <86fcba180705300948s4445c7acvb80a0bef38d7d77a@mail.gmail.com> thank you all very much, this was very helpfull. I have now the programm working finally! -- Sakkas Athanasios Thanos79 at gmail.com Thanasis1979 at yahoo.com Laxana 24, Thessaloniki, 54638, Greece G. Staurou 14, Larissa, 41221, Greece +302310843636 +302410288691 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070530/d8c9cd85/attachment.html From pat.ethree at gmail.com Tue May 29 21:55:16 2007 From: pat.ethree at gmail.com (pat mc cormack) Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 21:55:16 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: simulation run question In-Reply-To: References: <5cef8f8e0705290006j2d8195b4lda956c37ddf1e16c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5cef8f8e0705291355ga97d621v22945a285e9720ab@mail.gmail.com> Thanks everyone, I'm gradually getting the hang of driving the system. Powerful beastie. Pat On 5/29/07, Jon Hand (clcv10) wrote: > > > A question about 'silent running' simulation.... > > The silent running option is best used once you have proven that > the simulation runs ok interactively. If the simulation runs correctly > in silent mode it will stop automatically without any intervention > from the user. > > A never ending simulation might just be a massive simulation - like > someone taking a 50 zone building and running it at one minute > timesteps and it might look like it is not doing anything. This > particularly > manifests itself with the GTK graphics version which tends to not > give much feedback while it is running. > > Note there are options to monitor the simulation as it progresses > (in terms of zone temperatures and heat injections). > > When to use silent-mode? Some practitioners write scripts to automate > runs and use the silent option. > > -ESRU > -- "Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force; like fire, a troublesome servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action." -- George Washington (1732-1799) Founding Father, 1st US President, 'Father of the Country' Source: in a speech of January 7, 1790 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070529/d32b50d2/attachment.html From udo.schuster at ise.fraunhofer.de Wed May 30 10:46:59 2007 From: udo.schuster at ise.fraunhofer.de (Udo Schuster) Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 11:46:59 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Slab-on-grade hydronic floor / WCH converging 2-leg junction Message-ID: <465D4813.5060900@ise.fraunhofer.de> Dear all, dear Mr Laouadi, I am trying to create a cubical zone with one embedded slab in each of the six surfaces. Is this possible in general? To start simple, I reduced the problem to two slabs. I created two control files which refer to the same zone. The problem is, that only one control loop can be linked to the zone and therefore only one slab that can be linked to the zone. In consequence, I tried two build the cubical out of several zones. I could link now one control loop to one zone, but now I have problems at component level: I have the following components in my plant: - 1 source (air & water temperature source) - 1 pump - 2 slabs - 2 2-leg junctions As a link between pump and slab I chose the WCH converging 2-leg junction at both ends of a slab. When I run the simulation, I have problems with the converging 2-leg junction. Can I also use it as a diverging 2-leg junction or do I need a seperate component? I already scanned the component list, but could find only water flow diverger which don't seem to fit. Can anybody help me? Kind regards Udo -- Dipl.-Ing. (FH) Udo Schuster Dep. Thermal Systems and Buildings Fraunhofer-Institut f?r Solare Energiesysteme ISE Heidenhofstrasse 2, 79110 Freiburg, Germany Phone: +49(0)761/4588-5309 Fax: +49(0)761/4588-9000 udo.schuster at ise.fraunhofer.de http://www.ise.fraunhofer.de From pat.ethree at gmail.com Wed May 30 14:07:19 2007 From: pat.ethree at gmail.com (pat mc cormack) Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 14:07:19 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] esp-r and thermal lag Message-ID: <5cef8f8e0705300607h3fce871ahaeb1b6793aefd228@mail.gmail.com> Thanks for all the help to date folks, Couple of more questions, Is it possible to use esp-r to calculate the thermal lag of a multilayer wall section? Perhaps someone could point me at some literature on it? also I'm trying to take glazing information from LBNL's window program Win 5.2into esp-r. There are some version 4 instructions that I read but I can't find them again! Any pointers? As a general rule is it better to: 1) use something like win5 to calculate the properties of a multilayer assembly - in this case triple glazed lo-e argon gap- and then inject the whole assembly into esp-r? or: 2) create the construction in the constructions database in esp-r having put the individual elements' properties in the advanced optics database in esp-r. In the second case how do I select argon/krypton etc as the gap? Thanks Pat McCormack -- "Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force; like fire, a troublesome servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action." -- George Washington (1732-1799) Founding Father, 1st US President, 'Father of the Country' Source: in a speech of January 7, 1790 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070530/9a413f7b/attachment.html From pat.ethree at gmail.com Thu May 31 06:58:35 2007 From: pat.ethree at gmail.com (pat mc cormack) Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 06:58:35 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] thermal bridging Message-ID: <5cef8f8e0705302258g2a46e64fu7d6d91795c64247@mail.gmail.com> More questions! How does one insert a construction in the esp-r database that has thermal bridging? In particular I'm thinking of timber frame housing with the timber studs being the bridges with fibre batting insulation pushed between? Thanks Pat McCormack -- "Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force; like fire, a troublesome servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action." -- George Washington (1732-1799) Founding Father, 1st US President, 'Father of the Country' Source: in a speech of January 7, 1790 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070531/27cd3a18/attachment.html From Abdelaziz.Laouadi at nrc-cnrc.gc.ca Thu May 31 22:01:06 2007 From: Abdelaziz.Laouadi at nrc-cnrc.gc.ca (Laouadi, Aziz) Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 17:01:06 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Slab-on-grade hydronic floor / WCH converging 2-leg junction In-Reply-To: <465D4813.5060900@ise.fraunhofer.de> Message-ID: <5910A0754536EA4AAD411AE8221C3962036AE4BC@nrccenexb1.nrc.ca> Hi, Here is a quick reply. I am trying to create a cubical zone with one embedded slab in each of the six surfaces. Is this possible in general? --> Yes, in principle. Each surface of a zone can have its own radiant system. Caution: If the surface is shared between zones, this may not work well as there was a bug in ESP-r before, where node injection of the other zone having the same radiant surface is not updated automatically?. To start simple, I reduced the problem to two slabs. I created two control files which refer to the same zone. The problem is, that only one control loop can be linked to the zone and therefore only one slab that can be linked to the zone. --> I am not sure here. Other users may provide some feedback with regard to zone control. In consequence, I tried two build the cubical out of several zones. I could link now one control loop to one zone, but now I have problems at component level: I have the following components in my plant: - 1 source (air & water temperature source) - 1 pump - 2 slabs - 2 2-leg junctions --> the radiant model works only with water as a fluid; air fluid is not implemented as far as I know. As a link between pump and slab I chose the WCH converging 2-leg junction at both ends of a slab. When I run the simulation, I have problems with the converging 2-leg junction. Can I also use it as a diverging 2-leg junction or do I need a seperate component? I already scanned the component list, but could find only water flow diverger which don't seem to fit. --> you need to design the loop correctly so that the fluid exiting the source goes to slab1 and slab2 using a diverging junction, then collect the outlet water from both slabs using a converging junction (each junction end links to the outlet of slab), then the total water flow leaving the junction enters the pump then the source. I hope this splves the problem. Thanks A Laouadi -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Udo Schuster Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 5:47 AM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Slab-on-grade hydronic floor / WCH converging 2-leg junction Dear all, dear Mr Laouadi, I am trying to create a cubical zone with one embedded slab in each of the six surfaces. Is this possible in general? To start simple, I reduced the problem to two slabs. I created two control files which refer to the same zone. The problem is, that only one control loop can be linked to the zone and therefore only one slab that can be linked to the zone. In consequence, I tried two build the cubical out of several zones. I could link now one control loop to one zone, but now I have problems at component level: I have the following components in my plant: - 1 source (air & water temperature source) - 1 pump - 2 slabs - 2 2-leg junctions As a link between pump and slab I chose the WCH converging 2-leg junction at both ends of a slab. When I run the simulation, I have problems with the converging 2-leg junction. Can I also use it as a diverging 2-leg junction or do I need a seperate component? I already scanned the component list, but could find only water flow diverger which don't seem to fit. Can anybody help me? Kind regards Udo -- Dipl.-Ing. (FH) Udo Schuster Dep. Thermal Systems and Buildings Fraunhofer-Institut f?r Solare Energiesysteme ISE Heidenhofstrasse 2, 79110 Freiburg, Germany Phone: +49(0)761/4588-5309 Fax: +49(0)761/4588-9000 udo.schuster at ise.fraunhofer.de http://www.ise.fraunhofer.de _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From dlithgow at gmail.com Thu May 31 06:34:42 2007 From: dlithgow at gmail.com (Duncan Lithgow) Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 07:34:42 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Esp-r linux install In-Reply-To: References: <86fcba180705291217r2075f663ke2c2c87dcdf124a5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1180589682.5955.3.camel@ubuntu> On Wed, 2007-05-30 at 10:13 +0100, Jon Hand (clcv10) wrote: > You need to know where you installed the ESP-r modules (e.g. prj res > bps) on > your machine. And then you can add the correct environment variables. With due respect to the developers I think that if esp-r cannot set environmental variables without user intervention (beyond giving permission) then that should be regarded as a usability bug. Surely this is high on the "list of critical issues to bring more 'new blood' into the developer and user community" (quoting the Summary of March ESP-r developers workshop) Keep up the great progress. Duncan From dlithgow at gmail.com Thu May 31 06:35:55 2007 From: dlithgow at gmail.com (Duncan Lithgow) Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 07:35:55 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: install on linux In-Reply-To: <200705241719.59840.denny@esru.strath.ac.uk> References: <5cef8f8e0705240825q7aac8071mac2b2b07b2bb43de@mail.gmail.com> <200705241719.59840.denny@esru.strath.ac.uk> Message-ID: <1180589755.5955.4.camel@ubuntu> On Thu, 2007-05-24 at 17:19 +0100, Denny Beyer wrote: > Installation of ESP-r on recent versions of Linux distributions. > > The installer doesn't check if you got the necessary tools installed on your > machine. Why not? Duncan From Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch Fri Jun 1 07:28:53 2007 From: Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch (Geissler Achim) Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 08:28:53 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: esp-r and thermal lag References: <5cef8f8e0705300607h3fce871ahaeb1b6793aefd228@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C12D7DF@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Hi Pat, as far as I know, the combination of 1 and 2 you state is the only current possibility: You create the individual layer properties in an insulating glazing unit in Win5 or WIS - that is absorption, reflection and transmittance. Then you use these individual layer properties to build an advanced optical database entry for optical properties. The materials in the constructions database are for thermal properties only. In other words, ESP-r needs both databases for the full description of a TMC. The optical entry is linked to the thermal entry. The argon or whatever is simply entered by setting the cavity resistance (in the constructions data base) to the according value (the value that leads to your desired U-value). The other question you had in regard to stud walls: The simple approach is to enter the construction without the studs with a U-value that reflects the actual mean U-value including the studs. The next detailing step is to split the wall in appropriate fractions and enter the constructions accordingly (X % unstudded wall with the uncorrected-for-studs U-value and Y% Stud-region). The most detailed method would be to use the "3d-capability" of ESP-r (however, that is one of the more obscure capabilities and I have no idea if it still works. Some versions ago I did succeed in getting an example that uses that feature to run, though ... see thesis by Abdullatif E. Nakhi) Best regards Achim Geissler ________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of pat mc cormack Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 3:07 PM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] esp-r and thermal lag Thanks for all the help to date folks, Couple of more questions, Is it possible to use esp-r to calculate the thermal lag of a multilayer wall section? Perhaps someone could point me at some literature on it? also I'm trying to take glazing information from LBNL's window program Win 5.2 into esp-r. There are some version 4 instructions that I read but I can't find them again! Any pointers? As a general rule is it better to: 1) use something like win5 to calculate the properties of a multilayer assembly - in this case triple glazed lo-e argon gap- and then inject the whole assembly into esp-r? or: 2) create the construction in the constructions database in esp-r having put the individual elements' properties in the advanced optics database in esp-r. In the second case how do I select argon/krypton etc as the gap? Thanks Pat McCormack -- "Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force; like fire, a troublesome servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action." -- George Washington (1732-1799) Founding Father, 1st US President, 'Father of the Country' Source: in a speech of January 7, 1790 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070601/61fa1aad/attachment.html From KHaddad at NRCan.gc.ca Fri Jun 1 13:50:27 2007 From: KHaddad at NRCan.gc.ca (Haddad, Kamel) Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 08:50:27 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Slab-on-grade hydronic floor / WCH converging 2-leg junction In-Reply-To: <465D4813.5060900@ise.fraunhofer.de> References: <465D4813.5060900@ise.fraunhofer.de> Message-ID: Dear Udo, For water flow converger and diverger you can use plant components 46 and 47, respectively. For the control of the radiant slab you will specifying, for plant control, that you're controlling the flow to the slab based on the temperature sensed in the zone. It seems then possible to specify more than one slab for the same zone. Kamel Haddad -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Udo Schuster Sent: May 30, 2007 5:47 AM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Slab-on-grade hydronic floor / WCH converging 2-leg junction Dear all, dear Mr Laouadi, I am trying to create a cubical zone with one embedded slab in each of the six surfaces. Is this possible in general? To start simple, I reduced the problem to two slabs. I created two control files which refer to the same zone. The problem is, that only one control loop can be linked to the zone and therefore only one slab that can be linked to the zone. In consequence, I tried two build the cubical out of several zones. I could link now one control loop to one zone, but now I have problems at component level: I have the following components in my plant: - 1 source (air & water temperature source) - 1 pump - 2 slabs - 2 2-leg junctions As a link between pump and slab I chose the WCH converging 2-leg junction at both ends of a slab. When I run the simulation, I have problems with the converging 2-leg junction. Can I also use it as a diverging 2-leg junction or do I need a seperate component? I already scanned the component list, but could find only water flow diverger which don't seem to fit. Can anybody help me? Kind regards Udo -- Dipl.-Ing. (FH) Udo Schuster Dep. Thermal Systems and Buildings Fraunhofer-Institut f?r Solare Energiesysteme ISE Heidenhofstrasse 2, 79110 Freiburg, Germany Phone: +49(0)761/4588-5309 Fax: +49(0)761/4588-9000 udo.schuster at ise.fraunhofer.de http://www.ise.fraunhofer.de _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From lswan at dal.ca Fri Jun 1 13:58:17 2007 From: lswan at dal.ca (Lukas Swan (Dal)) Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 09:58:17 -0300 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Esp-r linux install In-Reply-To: <1180589682.5955.3.camel@ubuntu> Message-ID: <012701c7a44c$89125be0$f15fb18e@DHSE4> Good Questions Duncan- It seems to me that the precompiled binaries are pretty easy to use. If I recall correctly, in Windows it places an icon you can double-click on directly on the desktop. However, in the Cygwin and Linux environment you do still have to go set the path. I think in most Linux distributions, the "/home/username/bin" path is typically included in the $PATH variable, and the "username" has complete access to install in this location (no sudo required). If the precompiled binaries installer could drop the files there, the issue may be less important. The compiler and library issues are a different matter. The ESP-r installer (compiling version) typically has difficulty with any standard install of a recent freely available Linux Distribution. I have tried different freely available Linux distributions (Fedora, Suse, Ubuntu) and found that only Fedora has easy access (through "custom installation" or "add/remove applications") to install the extra packages (mainly g77) required for ESP-r compilation. Fedora Core 4 allows ESP-r to be compiled under the standard installation (it included g77). I have been successful in using the gfortran compiler, but that didn't always work either. Also, if you compile with gfortran and then later try to compile with g77, it doesn't seem to work. I had to go re-download the source. I have not followed up on this. Furthermore, my work lately has been with 64 bit OS and multi-core processors. I can run ESP-r precompiled binaries on these machines, but cannot compile (it really does not like the 64 bit libraries, even though the 32 bit libraries are installed as well). Nor does it take advantage of the 64 bit processing or the multi-core. Recently, I have been opening multiple simultaneous bps simulation programs and running separate house files through them to take advantage of this multi-core processing power. As most computers are now typically multi-core, it would be great if ESP-r could start threading appropriately to take advantage of this. Lukas Swan Dalhousie University Nova Scotia, Canada -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Duncan Lithgow Sent: May 31, 2007 2:35 AM To: Jon Hand (clcv10) Cc: Athanasios Sakkas; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Re: Esp-r linux install On Wed, 2007-05-30 at 10:13 +0100, Jon Hand (clcv10) wrote: > You need to know where you installed the ESP-r modules (e.g. prj res > bps) on > your machine. And then you can add the correct environment variables. With due respect to the developers I think that if esp-r cannot set environmental variables without user intervention (beyond giving permission) then that should be regarded as a usability bug. Surely this is high on the "list of critical issues to bring more 'new blood' into the developer and user community" (quoting the Summary of March ESP-r developers workshop) Keep up the great progress. Duncan _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From thanos79 at gmail.com Fri Jun 1 16:36:40 2007 From: thanos79 at gmail.com (Athanasios Sakkas) Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 17:36:40 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] climate config Message-ID: <86fcba180706010836q17efc742x76d94ca017929b30@mail.gmail.com> Dear esp-r users, i am trying to install some climate data (... IWEC.epw format) to use them but i can not manage it. I tried to use the instruction as in Cookbook but something goes wrong and i dont know what. Could anyone please help me by telling what to do? thanks in advance for your help and time. best regards, Thanasis -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070601/9f8c2bb9/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Fri Jun 1 17:32:23 2007 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand (clcv10)) Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 17:32:23 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: climate config In-Reply-To: <86fcba180706010836q17efc742x76d94ca017929b30@mail.gmail.com> References: <86fcba180706010836q17efc742x76d94ca017929b30@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <27A3DC4B-1237-4FE2-B876-764E139D307E@esru.strath.ac.uk> A recent question about converting EPW file.... > i am trying to install some climate data (... IWEC.epw format) to > use them > but i can not manage it. > I tried to use the instruction as in Cookbook but > something goes wrong and i dont know what. The first issue is are you looking at the current (Jan/Feb 2006) version of the cookbook? The second issue is "something goes wrong" is not specific enough to tell you what to do. a) Were there any warnings given? b) What did the warnings say? c) What specifically makes you think the process has failed? d) Was a climate file produced and is there any data in it? e) Which EPW file were you trying to convert? - it might be that someone else has already done this and they could send you a file. -ESRU -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070601/3d6f4e56/attachment.html From AFerguso at NRCan.gc.ca Fri Jun 1 17:50:57 2007 From: AFerguso at NRCan.gc.ca (Ferguson, Alex) Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 12:50:57 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Esp-r linux install In-Reply-To: <012701c7a44c$89125be0$f15fb18e@DHSE4> References: <1180589682.5955.3.camel@ubuntu> <012701c7a44c$89125be0$f15fb18e@DHSE4> Message-ID: Both Duncan and Lukas made some valuable observations about the compilation and installation of ESP-r. Like the rest of ESP-r, the installation script remains a work in progress; comments, criticisms and especially contributions are all very welcome. I think I can help explain why things are the way they are, and provide an overview of where we hope ESP-r will go in the coming months. The ESP-r README file contains instructions for updating your path variable on bash and csh shells. This step is left to you for these reasons: - Modifying a system or user profile without their knowlege would be incosistent with generally accepted UNIX conventions, and cause grey-haired gurus to send angry emails in my direction. - Many users install versions of ESP-r that differ from the system-wide installation, and some may have multiple copies of ESP-r in their home directory. If the script automatically updated the paths after each install, these users might mistakenly invoke the wrong ESP-r binary. - We could not guarantee the path variables will be updated correctly in all circumstances. If things went awry, an error in ~/.bash_profile or /etc/profile will cause all sorts of grief, particularly for novice users. Lukas suggested installing ESP-r binaries in standard locations that are already included in the system path definitions---system-wide installs might be stuffed into /usr/local/bin, and local installs could optionally be placed in $HOME/bin (provided it exists). The install script might even test the path variable for these locations, and advise the user if the path needs updating. These are good ideas, and may soon find their way into the install script if we can reach a consensus on how to implement them. Lukas also mentioned ESP-r's incompatibility with recent linux releases. The cause of this incompatibility is a seemingly innocuous version bump in the gcc compiler; gcc has been updated from 3.4 to 4.1 in most distributions. But gcc4 replaces the long-standing g77 fortran compiler with the newer, fortran-90 compliant gFortran. While ESP-r does compile with gFortran (as of gcc4.1.1), the numerical results from g77 and gFortran builds differ by as much as 4%. At present, we don't know if these differences stem from dubious syntax in ESP-r or a problem with gFortran itself. For this reason, we are cautiously calling gFortran builds 'beta' for the time being, and we recommend against their use in any project where ESP-r's accuracy is critical. We fully appreciate incompatibility with gcc4 will severely limit ESP-r's utility in the near future, and we're working to diagnose the source of these differences. But finding them among the 250,000 some-odd lines of code comprising bps is no easy task. We hope to resolve this issue in the comming months; Weimin Wang---one of our smartest colleagues---is leading the charge. If you wish to lend a hand, let me know and I'll put you in touch with him. 64-bit computing with ESP-r remains uncharted territory simply because the primary development groups (that is, ESRU and NRCan) don't have access to 64-bit hardware. We're as impatient as the rest of you when waiting for simulation results. But we can't test on platforms we don't have access to. Contributions in this area from other users with 64-bit machines would be very welcome. Large parts of ESP-r comprise legacy code written nearly 30 years ago. These procedures have proven extremely robust, and modernization of these codes to support multiple threads would also require a very extensive verification and validation effort. Neither ESRU nor NRCan presently has the resources for this work, but we heartily encourage any other users who wish to contribute. Again, comments and criticisms are always welcome. ESRU, NRCan, and other contributors from around the world have invested an enormous amount of effort in ESP-r, and we want the software to be as functional as possible and broadly used in the community. Still, most of our efforts are guided by funding programs with specific research goals, and we have only limited resources for general improvements. If you wish to join these efforts, I'd be happy to set up a developer's account for you. That's the beauty of free software---if we're taking too long, you're always welcome to pitch in and fix things yourself. Best regards, Alex Ferguson Building simulation R&D CANMET Energy Technology Centre Natural Resources Canada P:+1 613 995 3294 F:+1 613 996 9909 Alex.Ferguson at nrcan.gc.ca From dlithgow at gmail.com Sat Jun 2 10:18:47 2007 From: dlithgow at gmail.com (Duncan Lithgow) Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2007 11:18:47 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Esp-r linux install In-Reply-To: <012701c7a44c$89125be0$f15fb18e@DHSE4> References: <012701c7a44c$89125be0$f15fb18e@DHSE4> Message-ID: <1180775927.6124.28.camel@ubuntu> i thought I'd get told off for being negative, nice to hear the voice of reason in the replies! Nice. On Fri, 2007-06-01 at 09:58 -0300, Lukas Swan (Dal) wrote: > Good Questions Duncan- > It seems to me that the precompiled binaries are pretty easy to use. Yes, it installed perfectly for me on Ubuntu 7.04 (Feisty Fawn) > and Linux environment you do > still have to go set the path. I didn't have to do anything at all. gDebi did it for me. > The compiler and library issues are a different matter. Sure, but for those who choose to compile from source, they will also have a better knowledge of how to do it. > the 32 bit libraries are installed as well). Nor does it take advantage of > the 64 bit processing or the multi-core. A common problem in OSS, slowly it will change. On Fri, 2007-06-01 at 12:50 -0400, Ferguson, Alex wrote: > Both Duncan and Lukas made some valuable observations about the > compilation and installation of ESP-r. Like the rest of ESP-r, the > installation script remains a work in progress; comments, criticisms and > especially contributions are all very welcome. My own background is that of a student of building systems and construction. So I can see that between Calculix and ESP-r I can almost totally avoid proprietary software for building calculations. But both packages suffer from a very steep learning curve, and installation must be the first goal of any project looking for a wider audience. ESP-r has already done a lot in this area in the year I've been lurking on the list. (I can't get a GUI for Calculix working at all yet.) > I think I can help > explain why things are the way they are, and provide an overview of > where we hope ESP-r will go in the coming months. > > The ESP-r README file contains instructions for updating your path > variable on bash and csh shells. This step is left to you for these > reasons: > > - Modifying a system or user profile without their knowlege > would be incosistent with generally accepted UNIX > conventions, and cause grey-haired gurus to send angry > emails in my direction. That would be bad, maybe an installation dialog would be an idea? -------------------------- ESP-r would like to make the following changes to your system. Unless you know that these changes will cause problems it should be safe for you to accept them. If you want to investigate the proposed changes the list can be saved to a text file and this install will then cancel. 1. Add these location to $PATH: 2. ... [ Save list and exit ] [ Accept ] -------------------------- Duncan From dlithgow at gmail.com Sat Jun 2 17:06:49 2007 From: dlithgow at gmail.com (Duncan Lithgow) Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2007 18:06:49 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Esp-r linux install In-Reply-To: <012701c7a44c$89125be0$f15fb18e@DHSE4> References: <012701c7a44c$89125be0$f15fb18e@DHSE4> Message-ID: <1180800409.6490.1.camel@ubuntu> In reply to my own earlier email... I have not managed to install esp-r on Ubuntu, yet. Ubuntu doesn't know what to do with a .run file. It was under Windows that install went smoothly and was easy. Sorry for that confusion. Duncan (might have to learn how to package) From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Sat Jun 2 17:34:37 2007 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2007 17:34:37 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Esp-r linux install References: <012701c7a44c$89125be0$f15fb18e@DHSE4> <1180800409.6490.1.camel@ubuntu> Message-ID: A recent email about installing on Ubuntu... ::Subject: [esp-r] Re: Esp-r linux install ::In reply to my own earlier email... I have not managed to install esp-r ::on Ubuntu, yet. Ubuntu doesn't know what to do with a .run file. There web page where the linux installer was found also has a readme file and the 4th paragraph says what to do if the run file does not execute. The readme file does not list all of the library files that it is dependant on (that should be easy to add to the readme). It also does not list where to find these libraries (there are rather a lot of Linux distributions). The X11 version has very few dependencies. If you have 'the gimp' installed you should have everything you require for the GTK version. Ubuntu has a software installer that is quite adept at installing libraries and applications that do not come on the initial install disk. -ESRU From dlithgow at gmail.com Sat Jun 2 19:19:45 2007 From: dlithgow at gmail.com (Duncan Lithgow) Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2007 20:19:45 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Esp-r linux install In-Reply-To: References: <012701c7a44c$89125be0$f15fb18e@DHSE4> <1180800409.6490.1.camel@ubuntu> Message-ID: <1180808385.9572.20.camel@ubuntu> On Sat, 2007-06-02 at 17:34 +0100, Jon Hand wrote: > ::In reply to my own earlier email... I have not managed to install esp-r > ::on Ubuntu, yet. Ubuntu doesn't know what to do with a .run file. I have filed a bug with Ubuntu about that. > There web page where the linux installer was found also has > a readme file and the 4th paragraph says what to do if > the run file does not execute. Yes, I found that reasonable quickly once the problem didn't solve itself. If all else fails, I read the directions ;-) Thanks for the pointer Jon. = 1. On my first attempt I saw this from the terminal: proceeding with the X11 version... This may take a few minutes ... mkdir: cannot create directory `/opt/esru': No such file or directory ./setup: line 131: cd: /opt/esru: No such file or directory ... and of course it failed. Ubuntu doesn't have an /opt directory by default. Could you add that consideration into the installer please? (I can't find where to submit bug reports/ RFEs.) I created the /opt directory so that is fine. = 2. Next hurdle is setting the PATH correctly. I think we've talked about this before, otherwise I'd really be lost! Your PATH environment variable needs to be updated. The .bash_profile file the PATH= line should include the following... :/opt/esru/bin:/opt/esru/esp-r/bin Again that's good instruction but it's actually very hard for a new user to find out _how_ to add something to their path, and that shouldn't stand in the way of them using esp-r. Could the installer just ask for permission to add those paths to PATH? (I don't know how that's done system wide as root). I added "export PATH=$PATH:/opt/esru/bin:/opt/esru/esp-r/bin" to my users .bashrc file. Is that wrong/better/ok? Either way couldn't the installer handle this with a simple y/n question? = 3. Is this a problem? Please wait while the installer performs cleanup...ls: /usr/esru/esp-r/bin: No such file or directory But the directory is definately there, I checked. = 4. After restarting bash I tried the command esp-r and it looks like that's working now. But I get: prj: error while loading shared libraries: libg2c.so.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory Again, wget can quickly fix these issues if there's a live internet connection. Could the installer handle that as well? That'd be great - hey I might even get my computer illiterate thermal tutor to try it! For some reason on Ubuntu that library is called libg2c0 instead, who should I grumble to about that? Perhaps for now you could mention that in the readme. = 5. And now it runs! Cheers. Duncan (finally with some time to learn to use it) From dlithgow at gmail.com Sat Jun 2 20:07:49 2007 From: dlithgow at gmail.com (Duncan Lithgow) Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2007 21:07:49 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] esp-r logo suggestion Message-ID: <1180811269.12574.1.camel@ubuntu> I've just been playing around and have these to share, please comment. Duncan -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: rect8167_blue.png Type: image/png Size: 9795 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070602/a7fa9687/attachment-0002.png -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: esp-r_logo.png Type: image/png Size: 8683 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070602/a7fa9687/attachment-0003.png From patrmccormack at gmail.com Sat Jun 2 19:38:10 2007 From: patrmccormack at gmail.com (pat mc cormack) Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2007 19:38:10 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Esp-r linux install In-Reply-To: <1180808385.9572.20.camel@ubuntu> References: <012701c7a44c$89125be0$f15fb18e@DHSE4> <1180800409.6490.1.camel@ubuntu> <1180808385.9572.20.camel@ubuntu> Message-ID: <5cef8f8e0706021138v4c1705d0uad16ab2209202ac2@mail.gmail.com> Meant to say gfortran gives some 4% difference? Does anyone know if other numerical software has these differences? Pat -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070602/e1a587a6/attachment.html From pat.ethree at gmail.com Sat Jun 2 19:39:20 2007 From: pat.ethree at gmail.com (pat mc cormack) Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2007 19:39:20 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] install on linux - sorry jon, I'd replied to you instead of the list Message-ID: <5cef8f8e0706021139v18b940adv6a4a7d4cb06c8906@mail.gmail.com> All, Thanks for the clarity. I totally understand the issues with respect to legacy code. Especially Fortran. I've been writing code since '76, much of it simulator code. Yeah, I know. Why didn't we stick with Smalltalk :-)) If someone had told me in 1980 that code I was writing was going to be still in use in 2007 I'd have ... I dunno.. smiled weakly and backed away very carefully! I've been using Linux a long time. I installed my first commercial Linux based system in the north sea back in 1995- Slackware! Good man Patrick V. Bet esp-r compiles on Slackware (oops there's my evening gone). Open source is evolving so fast that there is a growing gap with legacy code. Installation wise it might be worth using one of the package managers like YUM or YAST to figure out the dependencies and possible clashes. I was a bit surprised that Ubuntu's Synaptic couldn't install g77 for me. I have esp-r now running on 32 bit windows (gtk version) and 32 SmartCom Linux (X-windows). SmartCom is remastered version of RedHat Enterprise without RH support. Nice distro in fact. No joy on 64 bit Ubuntu yet. If anyone is thinking of parallelizing fortran code I'd advise extreme caution. Dragons etc. Also, the state of multi-core micro-code is evolving very, very quickly. This stuff will probably self vectorize in the near future. When you get into what the compiler produces versus what the machine does you need to be a really familiar with the guts of the machine. I had a conversation a couple of years ago with some guys from Los Alamos on this subject and the consensus then was that you could no longer beat the compiler with hand optimized assembler. That was a big admission. These are some very cool coders. Multi-core came of age rather unexpectedly when Intel, AMD etc ran into scaling/power issues a few years back (I was teaching C++ at Intel's fab here in Ireland at the time). So the micro-code is playing catchup in a field that is as yet not very well understood. (Now if someone would build a multi-core with the second core optimised for matrix reduction the way a graphics processor does dot-product, the speed up would be so great that I doubt parallelization would be of any benefit) Multi-processor parallelization ala PVM, OpenMosix, Beowulf etc is another beast entirely. Trying to design a real parallel operating system is non-trivial. 64 bit: I run a couple of 64 bit machines for data processing in geophysics. Once I get this pesky project done I'd be happy to lend a hand on getting the 64 bit end sorted and maybe doing some benchmarking. OpenMosix hasn't got a 64 bit version as yet and I don't think the guys in the Technion in Haifa who wrote the 32 bit version are in a position to rewrite the 64 bit version. Be real nice if it happened though. Has anyone run/benchmarke esp-r on ClusterKnoppix? BTW is there a canonical benchmarking model? Anyhow that's my two cents worth- I love esp-r. Haven't had so much fun in a while. Cheers all - got to go install Slackware Pat- Show quoted text - On 6/2/07, Jon Hand wrote: > > > A recent email about installing on Ubuntu... > > > ::Subject: [esp-r] Re: Esp-r linux install > > ::In reply to my own earlier email... I have not managed to install esp-r > ::on Ubuntu, yet. Ubuntu doesn't know what to do with a .run file. > > There web page where the linux installer was found also has > a readme file and the 4th paragraph says what to do if > the run file does not execute. > > The readme file does not list all of the library files that it > is dependant on (that should be easy to add to the readme). > It also does not list where to find these libraries (there are > rather a lot of Linux distributions). > > The X11 version has very few dependencies. > If you have 'the gimp' installed you should have everything you > require for the GTK version. Ubuntu has a software > installer that is quite adept at installing libraries and applications > that do not come on the initial install disk. > > -ESRU > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > -- "Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force; like fire, a troublesome servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action." -- George Washington (1732-1799) Founding Father, 1st US President, 'Father of the Country' Source: in a speech of January 7, 1790 -- "Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force; like fire, a troublesome servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action." -- George Washington (1732-1799) Founding Father, 1st US President, 'Father of the Country' Source: in a speech of January 7, 1790 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070602/cd268fee/attachment.html From patrmccormack at gmail.com Sat Jun 2 21:55:25 2007 From: patrmccormack at gmail.com (pat mc cormack) Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2007 21:55:25 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] thermal lag Message-ID: <5cef8f8e0706021355r79214857od7df3adfae780457@mail.gmail.com> BTW Has anyone got info on how I'd use esp-r to calculate the thermal lag of a construction? thanks Pat -- "Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force; like fire, a troublesome servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action." -- George Washington (1732-1799) Founding Father, 1st US President, 'Father of the Country' Source: in a speech of January 7, 1790 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070602/bd31a193/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Mon Jun 4 10:02:24 2007 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand (clcv10)) Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2007 10:02:24 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: thermal lag In-Reply-To: <5cef8f8e0706021355r79214857od7df3adfae780457@mail.gmail.com> References: <5cef8f8e0706021355r79214857od7df3adfae780457@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <0934CC97-3361-4B41-974D-6FD49719A50F@esru.strath.ac.uk> A recent question about thermal lag: > Has anyone got info on how I'd use esp-r to calculate the thermal > lag of a construction? This depends on your definition of thermal lag. The simulator scans all of the constructions used in a model and finds the Fourier number and uses that to calculate the number of startup days. There is a function (can't think of exactly where at the moment) to calculate the approximate parameters used in the Admittance method. And if you run a simulation with save option 3 you can get an animation of the temperatures within a wall. SO how about a VIRTUAL test. Set up a boundary condition that is static for X days and then give a substantial pulse of temperature or radiation and then just observe how long it takes that pulse to show up on the other side of the wall. Note: if you are tracking a 2m thick stone wall you could be waiting quite some time and you might need a rather strong pulse to ensure it can be tracked ;-) -ESRU From Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch Mon Jun 4 12:03:59 2007 From: Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch (Geissler Achim) Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2007 13:03:59 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: thermal lag References: <5cef8f8e0706021355r79214857od7df3adfae780457@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C12D944@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Hi Pat, depending on what depth of information you are looking for, ESP-r has that info for any multi-layer construction readily available. You just need to change the "results flag" from 2 or 4 or whatever to 3. Then you get 3 temperatures for each layer at every timestep (surface, center, other surface). Now if e.g. a concrete wall / slab is of detailed interest, you can split that up into more layers - ergo more temperatures. For higher time resolution, of course, you can use smaller time steps. Last not least (as written in an earlier mail) ESP-r has that "3d high definition" thing hidden somewhere ... therein, as far as I remember, you can descretisize (?) to your hearts content. Hope that helps, Best regards Achim Geissler ________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of pat mc cormack Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 10:55 PM To: esp-r Subject: [esp-r] thermal lag BTW Has anyone got info on how I'd use esp-r to calculate the thermal lag of a construction? thanks Pat -- "Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force; like fire, a troublesome servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action." -- George Washington (1732-1799) Founding Father, 1st US President, 'Father of the Country' Source: in a speech of January 7, 1790 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070604/f3fe848a/attachment.html From udo.schuster at ise.fraunhofer.de Mon Jun 4 16:32:19 2007 From: udo.schuster at ise.fraunhofer.de (Udo Schuster) Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2007 17:32:19 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Slabs // water flow divergers/convergers // Control functions // air&water temperature source In-Reply-To: <5910A0754536EA4AAD411AE8221C3962036AE4BC@nrccenexb1.nrc.ca> References: <5910A0754536EA4AAD411AE8221C3962036AE4BC@nrccenexb1.nrc.ca> Message-ID: <46643083.1090700@ise.fraunhofer.de> Hello all, Thank you very much for your inputs. I tested them out and here are the results: ************************************** Proceedings ************************************** I used - boiler (ref no. 11, non-condensing, 1 node) - water flow diverger (ref no. 46, 3 nodes) - 2 slabs (ref no. 56, 1 node) - water flow converger (ref no. 47, 1 node) - pump (ref no. 15, 1 node) and connected them like this: --> you need to design the loop correctly so that the fluid exiting the source goes to slab1 and slab2 using a diverging junction, then collect the outlet water from both slabs using a converging junction (each junction end links to the outlet of slab), then the total water flow leaving the junction enters the pump then the source. I applied the plant to one cubical thermal zone. In order to link each slab to a surface in the plant network menue, I had to create two zone control functions. However, I could link only one of them to the zone. The plant control function, I set up like this: For the control of the radiant slab you will specifying, for plant control, that you're controlling the flow to the slab based on the temperature sensed in the zone. It seems then possible to specify more than one slab for the same zone. ************************************** Results ************************************** I could run simulations succesfully, though while setting up simulation, I got a MZPMXT warning for the water flow diverger, node 3 (the inlet, I suppose):"is a connector with no exit connection" Does this matter? ************************************** Use of air & water temperature source ************************************** However, I would like to use the air & water temperature source, ref no. 24. In the past, we could apply measured data from an ascii-file to it succesfully, but only for plants including 1 slab, 1 pump, 1 source. The air node had been short-circuited. When I apply the source to the plant from above, I get the following message: MZPADJ: reverse mass flow connection 4 MZPADJ: 1th phase mass flow reset to zero cmaslv: Backsubstitution phase. Fatal error :Zero diagonal in row 5 connection 4 is: slab2 sending, water flow converger receiving Using one cubical zone with two plants, each 1 slab, 1 pump, 1 source produces: MZPADJ: reverse mass flow connection 6 MZPADJ: 1th phase mass flow reset to zero MZPADJ: reverse mass flow connection 8 MZPADJ: 1th phase mass flow reset to zero MZPADJ: reverse mass flow connection 6 MZPADJ: 1th phase mass flow reset to zero MZPADJ: reverse mass flow connection 8 MZPADJ: 1th phase mass flow reset to zero cmaslv: Backsubstitution phase. Fatal error :Zero diagonal in row 5 connection 6 is: source2 sending, pump2 receiving connection 8 is: slab2 sending, source2 receiving Kind regards, Udo -- Dipl.-Ing. (FH) Udo Schuster Dep. Thermal Systems and Buildings Fraunhofer-Institut f?r Solare Energiesysteme ISE Heidenhofstrasse 2, 79110 Freiburg, Germany Phone: +49(0)761/4588-5309 Fax: +49(0)761/4588-9000 udo.schuster at ise.fraunhofer.de http://www.ise.fraunhofer.de From KHaddad at NRCan.gc.ca Wed Jun 6 13:27:21 2007 From: KHaddad at NRCan.gc.ca (Haddad, Kamel) Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 08:27:21 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Slabs // water flow divergers/convergers // Control functions // air&water temperature source In-Reply-To: <46643083.1090700@ise.fraunhofer.de> References: <5910A0754536EA4AAD411AE8221C3962036AE4BC@nrccenexb1.nrc.ca> <46643083.1090700@ise.fraunhofer.de> Message-ID: Udo, The warning you get with the flow diverger will not affect the results. Kamel Haddad -----Original Message----- From: Udo Schuster [mailto:udo.schuster at ise.fraunhofer.de] Sent: June 4, 2007 11:32 AM To: Laouadi, Aziz; Haddad, Kamel Cc: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: Re: [esp-r] Slabs // water flow divergers/convergers // Control functions // air&water temperature source Hello all, Thank you very much for your inputs. I tested them out and here are the results: ************************************** Proceedings ************************************** I used - boiler (ref no. 11, non-condensing, 1 node) - water flow diverger (ref no. 46, 3 nodes) - 2 slabs (ref no. 56, 1 node) - water flow converger (ref no. 47, 1 node) - pump (ref no. 15, 1 node) and connected them like this: --> you need to design the loop correctly so that the fluid exiting the source goes to slab1 and slab2 using a diverging junction, then collect the outlet water from both slabs using a converging junction (each junction end links to the outlet of slab), then the total water flow leaving the junction enters the pump then the source. I applied the plant to one cubical thermal zone. In order to link each slab to a surface in the plant network menue, I had to create two zone control functions. However, I could link only one of them to the zone. The plant control function, I set up like this: For the control of the radiant slab you will specifying, for plant control, that you're controlling the flow to the slab based on the temperature sensed in the zone. It seems then possible to specify more than one slab for the same zone. ************************************** Results ************************************** I could run simulations succesfully, though while setting up simulation, I got a MZPMXT warning for the water flow diverger, node 3 (the inlet, I suppose):"is a connector with no exit connection" Does this matter? ************************************** Use of air & water temperature source ************************************** However, I would like to use the air & water temperature source, ref no. 24. In the past, we could apply measured data from an ascii-file to it succesfully, but only for plants including 1 slab, 1 pump, 1 source. The air node had been short-circuited. When I apply the source to the plant from above, I get the following message: MZPADJ: reverse mass flow connection 4 MZPADJ: 1th phase mass flow reset to zero cmaslv: Backsubstitution phase. Fatal error :Zero diagonal in row 5 connection 4 is: slab2 sending, water flow converger receiving Using one cubical zone with two plants, each 1 slab, 1 pump, 1 source produces: MZPADJ: reverse mass flow connection 6 MZPADJ: 1th phase mass flow reset to zero MZPADJ: reverse mass flow connection 8 MZPADJ: 1th phase mass flow reset to zero MZPADJ: reverse mass flow connection 6 MZPADJ: 1th phase mass flow reset to zero MZPADJ: reverse mass flow connection 8 MZPADJ: 1th phase mass flow reset to zero cmaslv: Backsubstitution phase. Fatal error :Zero diagonal in row 5 connection 6 is: source2 sending, pump2 receiving connection 8 is: slab2 sending, source2 receiving Kind regards, Udo -- Dipl.-Ing. (FH) Udo Schuster Dep. Thermal Systems and Buildings Fraunhofer-Institut f?r Solare Energiesysteme ISE Heidenhofstrasse 2, 79110 Freiburg, Germany Phone: +49(0)761/4588-5309 Fax: +49(0)761/4588-9000 udo.schuster at ise.fraunhofer.de http://www.ise.fraunhofer.de From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Wed Jun 6 17:37:43 2007 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand (clcv10)) Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 17:37:43 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] draft report on temporal patterns of computer electricity demand Message-ID: <25A11EBD-0C8D-4E2F-B402-3D5FF8222D0D@esru.strath.ac.uk> Hello all, I have put together a draft report based on a survey of the electrical characteristics of some office equipment. I would appreciate comments on the report as well as suggestions and (THIS WOULD BE GREAT) contributions of measurements from some additional devices. Looking forward to hearing from you. Attached is the report in RTF format. If someone wants pure ASCII let me know. Regards, Jon Hand -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: computer_demands.rtf Type: text/rtf Size: 28937 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070606/6c2a981f/attachment-0001.bin -------------- next part -------------- From thanos79 at gmail.com Wed Jun 6 21:55:55 2007 From: thanos79 at gmail.com (Athanasios Sakkas) Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 23:55:55 +0300 Subject: [esp-r] climate data Message-ID: <86fcba180706061355p78a5db7crd35f952c6334b7c5@mail.gmail.com> dear Esp-r users, becouse i have not received any answer on my recent request about climate data and the conversion i couldnt do, could anyone please help me? here is the link were i downloaded the epw file. http://www.eere.energy.gov/buildings/energyplus/cfm/weather_data3.cfm/region=6_europe_wmo_region_6/country=GRC/cname=Greece thanks very much for your time. -- Sakkas Athanasios Thanos79 at gmail.com Thanasis1979 at yahoo.com Laxana 24, Thessaloniki, 54638, Greece G. Staurou 14, Larissa, 41221, Greece +302310843636 +302410288691 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070606/93592036/attachment.html From jake.zwart at sympatico.ca Thu Jun 7 02:16:38 2007 From: jake.zwart at sympatico.ca (Jake Zwart) Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 21:16:38 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] Re: climate data In-Reply-To: <86fcba180706061355p78a5db7crd35f952c6334b7c5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <003401c7a8a1$7ff8a0b0$6601a8c0@dellnotebook> A couple of years ago I imported a climate file. It took a fair bit of trial and error to make it work at that time. This is the procedure I followed. Importing Climate files Because of the close association between ESRU and NRCan, there are quite a few Canadian climate files now. Check first for something appropriate. To import your own follow the procedure below. First look in the ESPR_FAQ.pdf file for directions. It seems that it may be better than what I wrote up. Otherwise try the procedure below. 1.. Climate files can be either comma delimited or space delimited. The program does not care. 2.. In principle the import can occur in the project manager or in the climate Analysis module. I could only get the Climate Analysis Module to work. The following are the steps to use: 1.. go to root menu of Project Manager 2.. b database maintenance 3.. a climate 4.. c make a new database (and type in a name) (note that Cygwin does not seem to use the same directory read/write privileges as the documentation claims Unix does, you may be able to write to the directory where the rest of the climate files are. This may be because I use admin privileges from the user I start Cygwin from.) 5.. answer yes to browse or edit this data and the climate module will come up 6.. open the default filename and it will be zeros 7.. k import from text file 8.. ASCII esp-r file 9.. no (allow the data file to define the period which will probably be different) 10.. y whole year (I don?t know if this is required but it worked for me) 11.. ? Exit 12.. type in the ASCII filename and directory. The program may default to your home or cfg directory, I just typed in the location from the root directory to be sure. 13.. yes (to update site info) 14.. yes (inspection of the file showed there was a comment line between each day) 15.. graph the data and in general take a look at it to make sure it looks reasonable 3.. Note that the database just created does not come up in the list of standard databases, so you will have to remember the name and location. (or use operating system tools to find it such as find / -print | grep filename. 4.. There can be variations on this theme, but it took me a fair bit of work to figure this one out. Jake Zwart -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk]On Behalf Of Athanasios Sakkas Sent: Wednesday, 06 June, 2007 16:56 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] climate data dear Esp-r users, becouse i have not received any answer on my recent request about climate data and the conversion i couldnt do, could anyone please help me? here is the link were i downloaded the epw file. http://www.eere.energy.gov/buildings/energyplus/cfm/weather_data3.cfm/region =6_europe_wmo_region_6/country=GRC/cname=Greece thanks very much for your time. -- Sakkas Athanasios Thanos79 at gmail.com Thanasis1979 at yahoo.com Laxana 24, Thessaloniki, 54638, Greece G. Staurou 14, Larissa, 41221, Greece +302310843636 +302410288691 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070606/69effbba/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Thu Jun 7 08:18:50 2007 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand (clcv10)) Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 08:18:50 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: climate data In-Reply-To: <003401c7a8a1$7ff8a0b0$6601a8c0@dellnotebook> References: <003401c7a8a1$7ff8a0b0$6601a8c0@dellnotebook> Message-ID: About the recent question on converting climate data. I just did the conversion and sent it to Athanasios. I suspect that because the EPW file is a DOS file and if you are working on Linux or a Mac then the line endings might have been an issue. All I had to do on my Mac (besides saving the final file as a Unix file) was to truncate the one line of the EPW file that is 700 characters long. And as I noted to Athanasios there is additional information needed about the start and end weeks of each season of the year (start week of spring, start week of summer start week of autumn, start week of winter). This information goes into the so-called 'climatelist' file so that the file can be browsed and typical weeks or seasons selected. -Jon Hand From georgios at esru.strath.ac.uk Thu Jun 7 09:12:13 2007 From: georgios at esru.strath.ac.uk (Georgios Kokogiannakis) Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 09:12:13 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: climate data In-Reply-To: References: <003401c7a8a1$7ff8a0b0$6601a8c0@dellnotebook> Message-ID: <200706070912.14037.georgios@esru.strath.ac.uk> Hi all, there is not any problem with the DOS format of the epw files. There is no need for conversion to a unix format. Anyway, the procedure to convert the epw files in the esp-r format has become even more simple than in the past. This is well documented in the ESP-r cookbook (pg 35 of the current version). You only have to type one thing at the directory where your epw file is. For example: clm -mode text -file GRC_Thessaloniki_IWEC -act epw2bin silent GRC_Thessaloniki_IWEC.epw This will result to an ESP-r binary file called: GRC_Thessaloniki_IWEC Regards, Georgios On Thursday 07 June 2007 08:18, Jon Hand (clcv10) wrote: > About the recent question on converting climate > data. > > I just did the conversion and sent it to Athanasios. I suspect > that because the EPW file is a DOS file and if you > are working on Linux or a Mac then the line endings might > have been an issue. > > All I had to do on my Mac (besides saving the final file as a Unix > file) was > to truncate the one line of the EPW file that is 700 characters long. > > And as I noted to Athanasios there is additional information > needed about the start and end weeks of each season > of the year (start week of spring, start week of summer > start week of autumn, start week of winter). This information > goes into the so-called 'climatelist' file so that the file > can be browsed and typical weeks or seasons selected. > > -Jon Hand > > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From jeremy at esru.strath.ac.uk Thu Jun 7 14:09:55 2007 From: jeremy at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jeremy Cockroft) Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 14:09:55 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: draft report on temporal patterns of computer electricitydemand In-Reply-To: <25A11EBD-0C8D-4E2F-B402-3D5FF8222D0D@esru.strath.ac.uk> References: <25A11EBD-0C8D-4E2F-B402-3D5FF8222D0D@esru.strath.ac.uk> Message-ID: <221C1AC3541E7D4FB09EB58B16FFEF4A01172E44@BE-SCAM2.ds.strath.ac.uk> Jon, I would be interested in a wider range of consumer equipment that are typically left on or on standby (TVs, microwave ovens, PVRs, settop boxes, Audio stuff in general, phone chargers, battery chargers etc. Could I borrow your gadget? I have at least one of each of the above, to start with! There are rather a lot of characteristic current draws for each of your IT items. Perhaps you could define a typical usage profile for each type so we have a single figure for each item to compare. For the purpose of totting up the internal heat gains in a zone, perhaps we need an "occupied" figure and an "out-of-hours" figure for input (to ESP-r). Jeremy -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Jon Hand (clcv10) Sent: 06 June 2007 17:38 To: Core_developers at developer2.cvsdude.com Cc: esp-r list Subject: [esp-r] draft report on temporal patterns of computer electricitydemand Hello all, I have put together a draft report based on a survey of the electrical characteristics of some office equipment. I would appreciate comments on the report as well as suggestions and (THIS WOULD BE GREAT) contributions of measurements from some additional devices. Looking forward to hearing from you. Attached is the report in RTF format. If someone wants pure ASCII let me know. Regards, Jon Hand From pat.ethree at gmail.com Fri Jun 8 08:50:18 2007 From: pat.ethree at gmail.com (pat mc cormack) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 08:50:18 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] admittance in esp-r Message-ID: <5cef8f8e0706080050x337ab531l814c0fa58cb56205@mail.gmail.com> In the release notes for July 2006 it says under Project Manager "Support for the reporting of U-values and admittance values has been added, as per CIBSE and ISO standards." Where do we find this? and is it in both the GTK and X versions? Thanks Pat -- "Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force; like fire, a troublesome servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action." -- George Washington (1732-1799) Founding Father, 1st US President, 'Father of the Country' Source: in a speech of January 7, 1790 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070608/dde7160a/attachment.html From R.Southall at brighton.ac.uk Wed Jun 13 17:21:35 2007 From: R.Southall at brighton.ac.uk (R.Southall at brighton.ac.uk) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 16:21:35 -0000 Subject: [esp-r] Wind cowls In-Reply-To: <5cef8f8e0706080050x337ab531l814c0fa58cb56205@mail.gmail.com> References: <5cef8f8e0706080050x337ab531l814c0fa58cb56205@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hello. Does anyone have any experience of using the new wind cowl ventilation component with any success? Whenever I try and implement it all the flows withion my network go to zero. Cheers Ryan -- Dr Ryan Southall. Research Fellow, School of Architecture and Design, University of Brighton, Mithras House, Lewes Road, Brighton. BN2 4AT. Tel: (01273) 642335 Fax: (01273) 642348 Email: R.Southall at brighton.ac.uk From Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch Wed Jun 20 14:10:05 2007 From: Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch (Geissler Achim) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 15:10:05 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Special Components - Solar collector backplate Message-ID: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C14DB35@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Hi all, has anybody already experimented with special components - solar collector backplate? Setting this up seems straightforward enough. However, after definition of the file and allocation to a surface, reentry into the menu item "building integrated renewables" with the just-created-file leads to a crash ... ... with a message that gives a problem in a zone other than the one which actually is linked to the special component ... ((Fatal error: In ../zones/sbox_N.geo expecting 1 items (special material file error ..) in ... Solar Collector)) The one thing that may not be "standard" is that the surface which the special component is allocated to is a "hanging surface" in a zone. Ring any bells? Thanks for any ideas. Best regards, Achim Geissler -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070620/71aa8c91/attachment.html From patrmccormack at gmail.com Wed Jun 20 14:21:30 2007 From: patrmccormack at gmail.com (pat mc cormack) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 14:21:30 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] 64 bit compile Message-ID: <5cef8f8e0706200621s5908cf27veb07f2bb7be76d0e@mail.gmail.com> All FYI. I got round to building esp-r on a new installation of 64-bit Ubuntu- Feisty Fawn. Built okay but segmentation fault on startup. More as I get time Pat McCormack -- "Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force; like fire, a troublesome servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action." -- George Washington (1732-1799) Founding Father, 1st US President, 'Father of the Country' Source: in a speech of January 7, 1790 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070620/906f8b4c/attachment.html From PLopez at NRCan.gc.ca Wed Jun 20 14:54:08 2007 From: PLopez at NRCan.gc.ca (Lopez, Phylroy) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 09:54:08 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] Re: 64 bit compile References: <5cef8f8e0706200621s5908cf27veb07f2bb7be76d0e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Nice! I would be very interested in run-time comparisons with 32bit. ________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk on behalf of pat mc cormack Sent: Wed 20/06/2007 9:21 AM To: esp-r Subject: [esp-r] 64 bit compile All FYI. I got round to building esp-r on a new installation of 64-bit Ubuntu- Feisty Fawn. Built okay but segmentation fault on startup. More as I get time Pat McCormack -- "Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force; like fire, a troublesome servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action." -- George Washington (1732-1799) Founding Father, 1st US President, 'Father of the Country' Source: in a speech of January 7, 1790 From lswan at dal.ca Wed Jun 20 14:59:11 2007 From: lswan at dal.ca (Lukas Swan (Dal)) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 10:59:11 -0300 Subject: [esp-r] Re: 64 bit compile In-Reply-To: <5cef8f8e0706200621s5908cf27veb07f2bb7be76d0e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <01ca01c7b343$30c31320$0502a8c0@DHSE4> Hi Pat: I can also build it on Fedora Core 6, but not on Rocks. Also in the case of the FC6, I get the segmentation fault (although the X11 project manager window pops up very briefly). Please keep us updated as to your progress. Lukas Swan Dalhousie University Nova Scotia, Canada _____ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of pat mc cormack Sent: June 20, 2007 10:22 AM To: esp-r Subject: [esp-r] 64 bit compile All FYI. I got round to building esp-r on a new installation of 64-bit Ubuntu- Feisty Fawn. Built okay but segmentation fault on startup. More as I get time Pat McCormack -- "Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force; like fire, a troublesome servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action." -- George Washington (1732-1799) Founding Father, 1st US President, 'Father of the Country' Source: in a speech of January 7, 1790 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070620/ce995ff8/attachment-0001.html From susasaiz at gmail.com Wed Jun 20 20:35:56 2007 From: susasaiz at gmail.com (Susana Saiz Alcazar) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 15:35:56 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] geo-thermal energy source Message-ID: <382cb3600706201235w67291859rec58af29af914fc4@mail.gmail.com> Hi all, I am trying ot incorporate a geothermal system to provide energy in the building as well as a solar wall. Someone has any idea of how to model this? Thank you very much, Susana -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070620/c92146b8/attachment.html From mimocciola at yahoo.com Thu Jun 21 09:13:25 2007 From: mimocciola at yahoo.com (Michele Mocciola) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 01:13:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [esp-r] Re: 64 bit compile In-Reply-To: <01ca01c7b343$30c31320$0502a8c0@DHSE4> Message-ID: <942686.7272.qm@web53506.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I have the same problem with an Athlon 64 and a 64-bit Ubuntu-Feisty Fawn. Keep us updated! --- "Lukas Swan (Dal)" wrote: > Hi Pat: > > I can also build it on Fedora Core 6, but not on > Rocks. > > Also in the case of the FC6, I get the segmentation > fault (although the X11 > project manager window pops up very briefly). > > Please keep us updated as to your progress. > > > > Lukas Swan > > Dalhousie University > > Nova Scotia, Canada > > > > _____ > > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk > [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf > Of pat mc cormack > Sent: June 20, 2007 10:22 AM > To: esp-r > Subject: [esp-r] 64 bit compile > > > > All > FYI. I got round to building esp-r on a new > installation of 64-bit Ubuntu- > Feisty Fawn. > Built okay but segmentation fault on startup. > More as I get time > Pat McCormack > > -- > "Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it > is force; like fire, a > troublesome servant and a fearful master. Never for > a moment should it be > left to irresponsible action." > -- George Washington > (1732-1799) Founding Father, 1st US President, > 'Father of the Country' > Source: in a speech of January 7, 1790 > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545433 From susasaiz at gmail.com Thu Jun 21 14:03:05 2007 From: susasaiz at gmail.com (Susana Saiz Alcazar) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 09:03:05 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] displacement ventilation Message-ID: <382cb3600706210603h6ca2d0fbq4b5acba84a59d7b7@mail.gmail.com> Hi everyone, Someone has any idea of how to model displacement ventilation in esp-r? or if there is any case study in the web I can reviwew? Thanks a lot Susana -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070621/1f6cd343/attachment.html From Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch Fri Jun 22 09:31:24 2007 From: Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch (Geissler Achim) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 10:31:24 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: displacement ventilation References: <382cb3600706210603h6ca2d0fbq4b5acba84a59d7b7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C14DCB8@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Hi Susana, ... some thoughts on this: It mainly depends on what information you are seeking. If ventilation heat loss is what is of interest, IMO you can simply use an ACH by operations file (maybe set the ventilation air temperature to whatever is planned). If you want a bit detail on what happens to the air (where it goes), then you can model the ventilation with an air flow network (however, if you want to detail your ventilated zone, you will have to split that up into several sub-zones and have dozens of "fictitious" walls ... which has (slight) influence e.g. on long wave radiation exchange between the "real" walls of the zone. For large atria, e.g., this method still gives a good idea of what will happen. Or, last not least, if you are interested in a single not-too-large-and-complicated zone in high detail (air movement or even contaminant distribution), then you will have to set up a (conflated) CFD model. Best regards Achim Geissler ________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Susana Saiz Alcazar Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 3:03 PM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] displacement ventilation Hi everyone, Someone has any idea of how to model displacement ventilation in esp-r? or if there is any case study in the web I can reviwew? Thanks a lot Susana -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070622/5363af4f/attachment.html From Leen.Peeters at mech.kuleuven.be Mon Jul 2 14:57:31 2007 From: Leen.Peeters at mech.kuleuven.be (Leen Peeters) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 15:57:31 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] linking plant and zone Message-ID: <1183384651.4689044bea0e1@webmail2.kuleuven.be> Dear all, I was trying to link zones with radiators, but when I tried so ESPr did shut down. I tried several times, with and without zone controls. If anyone knows a solution... Thanks in advance, Leen Peeters Disclaimer: http://www.kuleuven.be/cwis/email_disclaimer.htm From f.duran.04 at cantabgold.net Mon Jul 2 16:42:13 2007 From: f.duran.04 at cantabgold.net (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Felipe_Dur=E1n?=) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 11:42:13 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] ground temperature profile Message-ID: Dear all, I am trying to model the effect of the ground in a wine cellar at Valparaiso, Chile. Does anybody knows how to calculate the monthly ground temperatures (1.5m. depth) to add a new ground temperature profile? Are the monthly ground temperatures equivalent to the external mean monthly temperatures? Thanks in advance, Felipe Duran Palma Arquitecto PUC, MPhil. U. Cambridge. DA4 ARQUITECTOS LTDA. Obispo Donoso 5 oficina 62-Providencia T(562) 3431868 - C(56) 92192551 fduran at cantab.net www.da4.cl ? Nota: Los tildes han sido omitidos intencionalmente. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070702/fab23d9f/attachment-0001.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: pastedGraphic.tiff Type: image/tiff Size: 48746 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070702/fab23d9f/attachment-0001.tiff From ali.fallahi at gmail.com Mon Jul 2 18:42:13 2007 From: ali.fallahi at gmail.com (Ali fallahi) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 13:42:13 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] Number of Periods in Zone Conrol Message-ID: <443e3ca80707021042t54e4f4c0v9ffbe5b394d1a623@mail.gmail.com> Hi, I am trying to simulate the indoor environment of a test-cell whose temperature is varying hourly. Using ESP-r, first I tried to use sensor to control indoor temperature of the test-cell but zone control module just allows maximum of 8 periods of a day which is not sufficient for hourly variation ( I need at least 23 periods) . Then I tried to increase these 8 periods by changing the source code ( MBCDP=8 in building.h ) , however I am not sure this change wouldn't have side effects on the other parts of ESP-r. I would appreciate it if someone could help me to know which parameter(s) should be changed to increase the control periods of zone control module. Is it possible to assign or define more than one climate file in database maintenance for one model (for example one for outdoor and one for indoor environment)? Best Regards, Ali Fallahi From F.Stift at exeter.ac.uk Tue Jul 3 09:18:45 2007 From: F.Stift at exeter.ac.uk (Florian STIFT) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 09:18:45 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: ground temperature profile In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000c01c7bd4a$c6bc5790$b2e1ad90@anthonyToshiba> Hi Felipe, Have you had a look at the BASESIMP algorithm implemented in ESP-r? This application deals with three-dimensional heat losses through basement and slab on ground structures from buildings. This method of connecting the building to soil uses a method developed from MOORE to estimate the yearly ground temperature profile beneath a building. Unfortunately I do not know for which depth! The Reference to this Model: Glenn Moore: Report for R-2000 Homes Program for Energy, Mines, and Resources Canada. Report Title: "Soil temperature estimation method". July 7th 1986 The calculation process is also used in the source code of ESP-r: http://esp-r.net/espr/esp-r/branches/development_branch/src/esrubld/ground_t emp_mains.F I hope this helps! Best Wishes, Florian Florian STIFT Research Assistant Centre for Energy and the Environment University of Exeter Tel: +44 (0) 1392 264145 Fax: +44 (0) 1392 264143 E-mail: f.stift at exeter.ac.uk Web: www.ex.ac.uk/cee -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Felipe Dur?n Sent: 02 July 2007 16:42 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] ground temperature profile Dear all, I am trying to model the effect of the ground in a wine cellar at Valparaiso, Chile. Does anybody knows how to calculate the monthly ground temperatures (1.5m. depth) to add a new ground temperature profile? Arethe monthly ground temperatures equivalent to the external mean monthly temperatures? Thanks in advance, Felipe Duran Palma Arquitecto PUC, MPhil. U. Cambridge. DA4 ARQUITECTOS LTDA. Obispo Donoso 5 oficina 62-Providencia T(562) 3431868 -C(56) 92192551 fduran at cantab.net www.da4.cl Nota: Los tildes han sido omitidos intencionalmente. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070703/8e2a374e/attachment-0001.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 103 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070703/8e2a374e/attachment-0001.gif -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 7474 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070703/8e2a374e/attachment-0001.jpe From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Tue Jul 3 10:20:07 2007 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand (clcv10)) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 10:20:07 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Number of Periods in Zone Conrol In-Reply-To: <443e3ca80707021042t54e4f4c0v9ffbe5b394d1a623@mail.gmail.com> References: <443e3ca80707021042t54e4f4c0v9ffbe5b394d1a623@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: A recent question about setting zone controls to match measured conditions.... If you have measurements from an experiment for the temperature within a zone it is possible to define a control that does an ideal match to timestep data read in from an external file. Often this is done to ensure correct boundary conditions in adjacent zones to a test chamber. There is a module called tdf which can import time-series data (such as setpoint temperatures) and then these can be associated with a zone. The procedure is partially automated. However, first consider - zone air temperature is from the current energy flows at surfaces and air movement within the zone as well as interactions with zone environmental controls. It might be ok to control adjacent zones to measured temperature but if you also control a test room to a measured temperature what is the purpose of the virtual experiment? And check which version of ESP-r you are using. 8 periods in a day is a smaller number than I think the current standard definition allows. -ESRU From AFerguso at NRCan.gc.ca Tue Jul 3 12:52:18 2007 From: AFerguso at NRCan.gc.ca (Ferguson, Alex) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 07:52:18 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] Re: linking plant and zone In-Reply-To: <1183384651.4689044bea0e1@webmail2.kuleuven.be> References: <1183384651.4689044bea0e1@webmail2.kuleuven.be> Message-ID: Hi Leen, Did ESP-r fail during the simulation, or while you were editing the model? And can you provide any more information --- for instance, were any messages sent by ESP-r prior to crashing? - Alex > -----Original Message----- > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk > [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Leen Peeters > Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 09:58 > To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Subject: [esp-r] linking plant and zone > > Dear all, > > I was trying to link zones with radiators, but when I tried > so ESPr did > shut down. I tried several times, with and without zone controls. > If anyone knows a solution... > > Thanks in advance, > > Leen Peeters > > > > Disclaimer: http://www.kuleuven.be/cwis/email_disclaimer.htm > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > From brian.spires at hlmarchitects.com Wed Jul 11 15:25:01 2007 From: brian.spires at hlmarchitects.com (Brian Spires) Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 15:25:01 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] The effect of climate change on weather data used for computer simulation of buildings and services. Message-ID: <624B87049900404591A9DE4A129FFE6620F4E7@fr21728059.hlmarchitects.lan> Dear all, I am member of a Climate Task Force that is reviewing current practices in respect to weather data used for computer simulation of buildings and their services, such as cooling/heating loads; summertime overheating; energy consumption etc.. These applications currently use historical weather data which has remained fairly stable over the past 20 to 30 years. However with the advent of climate change, designers will need to address the affect of changing weather patterns over next, say, 15 - 30 years covering the life of the services/building. The next generation of climate change information will be presented in probabilistic terms as with the UKCIP08 climate scenarios, being developed by the Hadley Centre. The Task Force's focus will be on the practical use of probabilistic climate scenarios in the planning, design, and construction of new buildings, as well as the retrofitting and maintenance of existing buildings to ensure that when climate change occurs, buildings continue throughout their lifetime to function safely, comfortably, cost-effectively and without excessive need for energy-intensive adaptation. As part of this work I have been tasked with investigating what other research in this area is being undertaken in Europe, and especially how this should be reflected in the development of climate sets for simulation studies. My request to all you esp-r users is therefore, can you please provide me with information about any initiatives in this field that you are aware of. Thanks, Brian BRIAN SPIRES Sustainability Consultant for HLMAD Limited T: 01483 467 300 F: 01483 467 350 Please note our new Guildford office address below Consider your environment ~ think before you print this email This e-mail and its attachments are confidential and for the intended recipient only. If you are not the intended recipient you must not disclose, copy or distribute this. Please delete this from your mailbox and notify us of the error immediately by 'phone or e-mail - thank you. This e-mail is transmitted subject to the "HLM Conditions on the use of e-mail" - please advise us immediately if you have not seen or agreed to these. For and on behalf of HLMAD Limited. Regional Office ; Guildford - 3rd Floor, Friary Court, 13-21 High Street, Guildford, Surrey, GU1 3DG Registered Office - 2nd Floor, The Ruskin Building, Tudor Square, Sheffield, S1 2LA Registered in England & Wales No. 5047778 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070711/2334dcea/attachment-0001.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 6732 bytes Desc: image001.jpg Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070711/2334dcea/attachment-0003.jpe -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 7758 bytes Desc: image002.jpg Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070711/2334dcea/attachment-0004.jpe -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 4454 bytes Desc: image003.jpg Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070711/2334dcea/attachment-0005.jpe From paul at esru.strath.ac.uk Sat Jul 14 12:51:38 2007 From: paul at esru.strath.ac.uk (paul strachan) Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 12:51:38 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: The effect of climate change on weather data used forcomputer simulation of buildings and services. Message-ID: <4698B8CA.3000206@esru.strath.ac.uk> A couple of recent emails that were sent accidentally to esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk rather than esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk ---------------------------------------- > Subject: > RE: [esp-r] The effect of climate change on weather data used > forcomputer simulation of buildings and services. > From: > "Jake Zwart" > Date: > Fri, 13 Jul 2007 18:23:39 -0400 > > To: > "'Brian Spires'" > CC: > > > > One expert in the field is Timothy Ball, a former university professor > and now consultant that I think would have the expertise to help. He > is in Canada, and as I understand it, did his PhD in looking at long > term weather records. Try a web search on his name. I used to read > his articles in a farming magazine 30 years ago and he impressed me. > I found his email address as timothyball at shaw.ca > from the web site > http://www.nrsp.com/people-timothy-ball.html. > > A quick lookup on his name brought me to > http://www.fcpp.org/main/publication_detail.php?PubID=864 where I > learned that away from urban centers there is currently global cooling. > > My wife and I recently stayed at a climatologist's house and we > learned that that one of the first things forcasters learn is to never > give the probability of rain at 50%. 40% & 60% are fine but if a > forcaster says 50% his credibility is gone. I have never seen a > forcast with a 50% chace of rain, so I presume the people forcasting > the weather are well educated! (This is from the Canadian context, > any of your locales use 50%?) > > Have fun with your project, it would be interesting to have a summary > of what you learn periodically as you go ahead with your project. > > Jake > Subject: > Re: [esp-r] The effect of climate change on weather data used > forcomputer simulation of buildings and services. > From: > Tim Ball > Date: > Fri, 13 Jul 2007 16:02:54 -0700 > > To: > jake.zwart at sympatico.ca > CC: > 'Brian Spires' , > esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk > > > I will be glad to help. I have some architecture training as well as > urban planning training and knowledge through studies on the urban > heat island effect as well as knowledge about climate change over > time. The latter is the first thing you need to know about if you are > going to plan or build for urban climates. > Tim Ball From Leen.Peeters at mech.kuleuven.be Tue Jul 17 09:14:20 2007 From: Leen.Peeters at mech.kuleuven.be (Leen Peeters) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 10:14:20 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] convection-radiation Message-ID: <1184660060.469c7a5cacb0b@webmail1.kuleuven.be> Dear all, Is there a way to have heat/cold emission in a room, defining the percentages of radiative heat transfer and convective heat transfer, without having to define a plant configuration. It woul be like adding the percentages of convective and radiative heat transfer to the ideal basic control. Thanks in advance Disclaimer: http://www.kuleuven.be/cwis/email_disclaimer.htm From nick at esru.strath.ac.uk Tue Jul 17 09:27:46 2007 From: nick at esru.strath.ac.uk (Nicolas Kelly) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 09:27:46 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: convection-radiation In-Reply-To: <1184660060.469c7a5cacb0b@webmail1.kuleuven.be> References: <1184660060.469c7a5cacb0b@webmail1.kuleuven.be> Message-ID: <47BBFC6D736E714E8B490CEED8C1CCB49D362C@BE-SCAM2.ds.strath.ac.uk> Leen, ESP-r allows you to do this for any building control law by selecting actuator type 'b mix of convection and radiation' when defining a building control law; this actuator allows you to set the radiant and convective emissions from a simple building controller (i.e. pseudo-plant) without the need to develop a detailed plant model. I'll get back to you on the other questions you asked! Nick Kelly, On behalf of ESRU ******************************* Dr Nick Kelly RCUK Academic Fellow Energy Systems Research Unit Institute for Energy and Environment University of Strathclyde 75 Montrose St Glasgow G1 1XJ t: +44(0)141 548 2854 f: +44(0)141 552 5105 e: nick at esru.strath.ac.uk ******************************* -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Leen Peeters Sent: 17 July 2007 09:14 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] convection-radiation Dear all, Is there a way to have heat/cold emission in a room, defining the percentages of radiative heat transfer and convective heat transfer, without having to define a plant configuration. It woul be like adding the percentages of convective and radiative heat transfer to the ideal basic control. Thanks in advance Disclaimer: http://www.kuleuven.be/cwis/email_disclaimer.htm _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From Leen.Peeters at mech.kuleuven.be Tue Jul 17 18:10:23 2007 From: Leen.Peeters at mech.kuleuven.be (Leen Peeters) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 19:10:23 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] actuator location Message-ID: <1184692223.469cf7ffd621f@webmail2.kuleuven.be> Dear all, my project craches when I locate the actuator inside a surface or in a node of a surface. The message I get is ****** FORTRAN RUN-TIME SYSTEM ****** Subscript out of range. Location: line 3180 column 21 of 'econtrol.F' Subscript number 2 has value 0 in array 'NELTS' What is the solution? Thanks! Disclaimer: http://www.kuleuven.be/cwis/email_disclaimer.htm From Leen.Peeters at mech.kuleuven.be Wed Jul 18 10:10:54 2007 From: Leen.Peeters at mech.kuleuven.be (Leen Peeters) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 11:10:54 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] solved Message-ID: <1184749854.469dd91e45acd@webmail2.kuleuven.be> Dear all, the problem with the actuator location inside a surface was solved by using version 11.3 in stead of 11.2! Regards, Leen Disclaimer: http://www.kuleuven.be/cwis/email_disclaimer.htm From D.Costola at tue.nl Fri Jul 27 12:44:25 2007 From: D.Costola at tue.nl (Costola, D) Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 13:44:25 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Installation without validation models Message-ID: Dear all, I'm facing a strange behavior when I compile ESP without install the validation models. In this case, some errors happened during installation in the "(Re)install databases" part. When the installation is done, I call ESP but it can't find some defaults. There isn't any error if the validations models are installed. I'm using Solaris, and the installation uses the following options: y SunOS 2 F77 n XML 2 X11 y Tree y installation n (Re)install training and validation models, manual and tutorial (y/n) [y]? y database y executables y Delete tmp Does anybody face similar problems? Any suggestions about how I can solve it? Regards Daniel C?stola -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070727/d50c6d6c/attachment.html From D.Costola at tue.nl Fri Jul 27 12:50:23 2007 From: D.Costola at tue.nl (Costola, D) Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 13:50:23 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] External surfaces CHTC Message-ID: Dear all, I have a question about the implementation of McAdams-Ito empirical relations for CHTC of external surfaces, in the routine: src/esrubld/convect2.F subroutine HTCEXT The implementation in the code seems to be different of the described in Joe Clarke's book. The main differences are: - There is no difference between smooth and rough surfaces, as described in the reference. - The formula is linear, instead of a power law described in the reference. - The windward face is treated in two different ways, depending on the wind attack angle, which is not described in the reference also. Am I looking in the wrong place in the code? If not, is there any reason for those differences? Regards Daniel C?stola -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070727/534f819f/attachment.html From AFerguso at NRCan.gc.ca Fri Jul 27 12:55:43 2007 From: AFerguso at NRCan.gc.ca (Ferguson, Alex) Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 07:55:43 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Installation without validation models In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Daniel, The Install script installs the default 'esprc' file alongside the training and validation models. Electing to skip these models causes the script to also skip installation of the default information. This 'feature' behavior is clearly confusing and will be improved in a future release. - Alex ________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Costola, D Sent: Friday, July 27, 2007 07:44 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Installation without validation models Dear all, I'm facing a strange behavior when I compile ESP without install the validation models. In this case, some errors happened during installation in the "(Re)install databases" part. When the installation is done, I call ESP but it can't find some defaults. There isn't any error if the validations models are installed. I'm using Solaris, and the installation uses the following options: y SunOS 2 F77 n XML 2 X11 y Tree y installation n (Re)install training and validation models, manual and tutorial (y/n) [y]? y database y executables y Delete tmp Does anybody face similar problems? Any suggestions about how I can solve it? Regards Daniel C?stola From obrien_liam at hotmail.com Fri Jul 27 18:41:06 2007 From: obrien_liam at hotmail.com (Liam O'Brien) Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 13:41:06 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] Installing esp-r in OS X Message-ID: Hello,As a novice Unix user, I have struggled a bit to install esp-r [in OS X]. I have followed the instuctions on the website to the T, however I am consistently getting this message mid-way through the installation process (and it aborts the process):Please wait while the installer performs cleanup...ls: /opt/esru/esp-r/bin: No such file or directoryHaving given the sudo command, I would have expected the installer to create any necessary folder structure automatically. I suspect this is a Unix issue more than an esp-r issue, however if anyone could give me a pointer, I'd really appreciate it.Thank you.Liam O'Brien _________________________________________________________________ News, entertainment and everything you care about at Live.com. Get it now! http://www.live.com/getstarted.aspx -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070727/ab9c7502/attachment-0001.html From etienne.pedneault-dartois.1 at ulaval.ca Fri Jul 27 20:23:18 2007 From: etienne.pedneault-dartois.1 at ulaval.ca (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=C9tienne_Pedneault-Dartois?=) Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 15:23:18 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] Simulation result with BASESIMP Message-ID: <6EE1332C-D776-4928-9DEA-EB6176428C3F@ulaval.ca> Dear all, I tried to use BASESIMP to model 3D ground conduction, but there was a problem when I wanted to see the result in the Analysis module. It seemed that datas were not recorded in the .sim file after the simulation. When I tried to export a timestep report to a text file, under columns like "Resultant zone Temperature", instead of numbers, there was the word "nan". When I tried to plot a graph in the Analysis module, it doesn't work either. I use ESP-r on a Windows PC via Cygwin interface. Does someone know how to fix it? Regards Etienne Pedneault-Dartois, student Universit? Laval From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Mon Jul 30 09:02:13 2007 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand (clcv10)) Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 09:02:13 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Installing esp-r in OS X In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: A recent question about installing esp-r on OSX.... > As a novice Unix user, I have struggled a bit to install esp-r [in > OS X]. I have followed the instuctions on the website to the T, > however I am consistently getting this message mid-way through the > installation process (and it aborts the process): > > Please wait while the installer performs cleanup...ls: /opt/esru/ > esp-r/bin: No such file or directory > > Having given the sudo command, I would have expected the installer > to create any necessary folder structure automatically. I suspect > this is a Unix issue more than an esp-r issue, however if anyone > could give me a pointer, I'd really appreciate it. Currently the Installer assumes that a folder /opt/esru exists prior to running the script and if it finds this folder is will attempt to create a number of subfolders under /opt/esru. If if cannot create some of the folders is should give you a warning. Clearly in your case it does not. Not everyone will use sudo to invoke the Installer and for that reason the Installer does not assume that it can create either /opt or /opt/esru. On some OSX machines /opt does not exist. Looks like we need to update the instructions to clarify this. One thing to check on your machine is whether there is actually a folder named /opt/esru/esp-r/bin If there is not such folder then that is what is causing the failure. The Install script is a text file so you can look inside of it for 'mkdir' commands and invoke those commands manually. Note: /opt/esru is only the default location, you could install esp-r somewhere else. And if you choose some other location it is best not to have any spaces in the folder names. -ESRU -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070730/b39c5827/attachment.html From Leen.Peeters at mech.kuleuven.be Tue Jul 31 09:29:46 2007 From: Leen.Peeters at mech.kuleuven.be (Leen Peeters) Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 10:29:46 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] actuator node inside surface Message-ID: <1185870586.46aef2facc404@webmail2.kuleuven.be> Dear all, I use ESP-R version 11.3. When I locate the actuator point of the zone control at the inside face of a surface, my simulation (January 9th- 15th) works fine as long as the simulation time step is larger than 6 minutes. As soon as I go to smaller simulation time steps I get the following message `BCL00: iteration limit exceeded` Followed with a date and hour at which it occured (in this case 7.02 Year Day 362, not even included in the simulation). When locating the actuator point at a node within a surface (top layer of floor) it is OK for a simulation timestep of 60 minutes. As soon as I go to smaller simulation timesteps, I get the same BCL00 error. What can I do to solve it? Thanks, Leen Disclaimer: http://www.kuleuven.be/cwis/email_disclaimer.htm From AFerguso at NRCan.gc.ca Tue Jul 31 19:47:37 2007 From: AFerguso at NRCan.gc.ca (Ferguson, Alex) Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 14:47:37 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Installing esp-r in OS X In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Liam, Which version of ESP-r are you using? - Alex ________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Liam O'Brien Sent: Friday, July 27, 2007 13:41 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Installing esp-r in OS X Hello, As a novice Unix user, I have struggled a bit to install esp-r [in OS X]. I have followed the instuctions on the website to the T, however I am consistently getting this message mid-way through the installation process (and it aborts the process): Please wait while the installer performs cleanup...ls: /opt/esru/esp-r/bin: No such file or directory Having given the sudo command, I would have expected the installer to create any necessary folder structure automatically. I suspect this is a Unix issue more than an esp-r issue, however if anyone could give me a pointer, I'd really appreciate it. Thank you. Liam O'Brien ________________________________ Get news, entertainment and everything you care about at Live.com. Check it out! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070731/ae11b0ee/attachment.html From Leen.Peeters at mech.kuleuven.be Thu Aug 2 13:08:22 2007 From: Leen.Peeters at mech.kuleuven.be (Leen Peeters) Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2007 14:08:22 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] strange effect Message-ID: <1186056502.46b1c9361f0c5@webmail1.kuleuven.be> Dear all, when I run res in text mode and I give the following commands I discouver a strange effect: c # perfromance metrices g #with as selection of parameters the surface temperatures of the inside faces of all 6 surfaces of zone 1 and nothing of zone 2 b i #now selecting the surfaces 1 by 1 a b c d e f - - I end up with 7 columns of data instead of the 6 I selected (besides of course the time) when I send them to a file. This does not occur when I list them on the screen ;-) I work with version 11.3 Leen Disclaimer: http://www.kuleuven.be/cwis/email_disclaimer.htm From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Fri Aug 3 13:31:26 2007 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand (clcv10)) Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 13:31:26 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: strange effect In-Reply-To: <1186056502.46b1c9361f0c5@webmail1.kuleuven.be> References: <1186056502.46b1c9361f0c5@webmail1.kuleuven.be> Message-ID: <1B73761F-8677-4C87-BFCA-A7CBB94CD369@esru.strath.ac.uk> A recent report when requesting timestep listings in the module res. In text mode a user reported getting 7 data items in the list when they had actually only selected 6. This was in a model with several zones and no surfaces were selected from the other zones when requesting the list. When run in graphic model I select the temperatures of 6 different surface and skipped the surfaces in subsequent zones. What I was was a date stamp and then 6 more columns of data shown in the text feedback area. I tried the same in text mode and I got exactly the same thing so I am unable to prove this issue with version 11.3 (latest development branch version). -Jon Hand From crh at birch-krogboe.dk Wed Aug 8 12:03:32 2007 From: crh at birch-krogboe.dk (Christian Anker Hviid) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 13:03:32 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] blinds control Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070808/dcb267cc/attachment.html From Denis.Bourgeois at arc.ulaval.ca Wed Aug 8 13:41:04 2007 From: Denis.Bourgeois at arc.ulaval.ca (Denis J. Bourgeois) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 08:41:04 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] Re: blinds control References: Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070808/cd33263a/attachment.html From s06mg004 at fh-biberach.de Thu Aug 9 16:57:56 2007 From: s06mg004 at fh-biberach.de (Christoph Kirschmann) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 17:57:56 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [esp-r] temperatures, g-value and changing heat transfer coefficients Message-ID: <1901788.1186675076048.SLOX.WebMail.wwwrun@mserv01.fh-biberach.de> Hello, my name is Christoph and I'm a beginner in using ESP-r. I try to modell a given example (VDI 6020). It's a simple room with given settings. I would like to change the thermal heat transfer coefficients of the constructions. The window should have a g-value of 75%. And my third question: How can i give the room start up temperatures for the air- and the surfaces. best regards, Christoph From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Thu Aug 9 17:40:03 2007 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand (clcv10)) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 17:40:03 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: temperatures, g-value and changing heat transfer coefficients In-Reply-To: <1901788.1186675076048.SLOX.WebMail.wwwrun@mserv01.fh-biberach.de> References: <1901788.1186675076048.SLOX.WebMail.wwwrun@mserv01.fh-biberach.de> Message-ID: <8D84AFEB-190F-455D-8FEB-F1483DD1203A@esru.strath.ac.uk> A novice user had a series of questions.... > It's a simple room with given settings. I > would like to change the thermal heat transfer coefficients of the > constructions. There is a facility in the project manager that gives several options for fixing the convective heat transfer coefficient at the inside and outside face of surfaces. In the project manger look in browse/edit/simulate -> zone composition -> convection coefficients > The window should have a g-value of 75%. A g-value is reported in Esp-r it is not an input variable. Use WIS (window information systems) or the LBL Window 5.1/5.2 applications to derive the optical properties of your specific glazing and then you will have to go into the optical database and input the data. You might find that there is an existing optical property set that is close to what you need. Look in database management -> optical properties Optical properties are referenced by constructions so you will also need to look in the constructions database to see if there is a glazing construction that is close to what you need, otherwise you will have to create a new construction and associate it with your optical properties set. > And my third > question: How can i give the room start up temperatures for the > air- and > the surfaces. > This is usually done by including a pre-simulation time in the simulation so that temperatures have evolved sufficiently prior to the simulation commencing. If the specification says that all zones need to be 20C at midnight at the start of the assessment then you might choose to define a zone control that controls to that temperature. Generally we do not support the idea of fixing surface temperatures - they are the result of all the other energy and air flows within the model. -ESRU From Leen.Peeters at mech.kuleuven.be Fri Aug 10 10:30:03 2007 From: Leen.Peeters at mech.kuleuven.be (Leen Peeters) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 11:30:03 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] wet central heating and cooling system Message-ID: <1186738203.46bc301b56cf6@webmail1.kuleuven.be> Dear all, I`m trying to build a wet central heating and cooling system with both a boiler and a simple 1 node cooler. It works fine, as long as I do not introduce a plant control loop for the cooler. If I do so, the actuator point of the first loop becomes invalid. I do not want to limit heating, nor cooling to specific periods. Can anyone advice me on that? Thanks, Leen Disclaimer: http://www.kuleuven.be/cwis/email_disclaimer.htm From M.Mirsadeghi at tue.nl Tue Aug 14 13:11:05 2007 From: M.Mirsadeghi at tue.nl (Mirsadeghi, M.) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 14:11:05 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Day number in trace facility Message-ID: Dear All, In the trace facility of ESP-r if you for example monitor convective heat transfer coefficient for a certain period, the date of each day and the day number do not change until 1:30 am. Is there any reason for that? Day No. = 86 (i.e. 27th of Mar.), Time 24:00 Hours default equations from McAdams: VF V HC 3.600 0.579 4.536 Subroutine MZCONV Trace output 46 Day No. = 86 (i.e. 27th of Mar.), Time 24:00 Hours . . . . Day No. = 87 (i.e. 28th of Mar.), Time 1:30 Hours Alamdari: HC & DT 1.060 0.477 Subroutine HTCEXT Trace output 49 Regards, M. Mirsadeghi * * * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070814/b0160ca7/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Tue Aug 14 13:41:29 2007 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand (clcv10)) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 13:41:29 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Day number in trace facility In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6489F579-FB61-437A-B5F8-610B9AA8F1F9@esru.strath.ac.uk> A question about the time reported in simulation trace files... > Dear All, > > In the trace facility of ESP-r if you for example monitor > convective heat transfer coefficient for a certain period, the date > of each day and the day number do not change until 1:30 am. Is > there any reason for that? > The logic that figures out 'have we gotten to the next day' in the simulator trace facilities was written (in the ancient days) in a way that gives this slightly disconcerting report for the timestep after midnight. It is utterly consistent in this regard. It would probably not be rocket science to revise this. -ESRU -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070814/7ca114cc/attachment.html From Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch Wed Aug 15 12:50:03 2007 From: Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch (Geissler Achim) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 13:50:03 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Shading / Obstructions Message-ID: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C19573F@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Hi everyone, does anyone have experience with the following or are there known issues on shading in this regard? (1) We have a model with horizontal, staggered obstructions outside. The initial model faced south (the fa?ade is not vertical). Here, the shading calcs seem to be O.K. (shading patterns with shd etc.). (2) We then turned the model (and the obstructions) to the southwest (-60 deg, actually). The wireframe looks O.K., the shading calcs with shd do not work, anymore: Every relevant obstruction suddenly has the "plane crossing" problem and is therefore ignored. Test with turning obstructions by 300 deg instead of -60 didn't help. The lower edge of the relevant surfaces is parallel to the ground in both orientations ... Thanks for any ideas! Best regards, Achim Geissler -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070815/e1e95c93/attachment.html From Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch Thu Aug 16 15:08:17 2007 From: Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch (Geissler Achim) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 16:08:17 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Res output, what, exactly, is given? Message-ID: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C19585E@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Hi everybody, is there anybody out there, that can tell me what, exactly, the output is for res (d) enquire about (l) monthly gains & losses ? Solar radiation ? ? Absorb ? entering ? ? Inside ? zone ? ? I would assume that "absorb inside" is the solar radiation (direct and diffuse) absorbed by all surfaces that receive short wave radiation and "entering zone" is short wave radiation entering (direct and diffuse) minus direct reflected short wave radiation back out again. Is this correct? However, I am not quite sure about this. I would have expected that cooling load reduction and solar entering zone reduction when introducing a shading obstruction would be similar (as we have no internal loads and no ventilation, control to constant air temperature, solar radiation is the main gain). This is not the case in our model (reduction of solar entering by approx. 15 - 20 %, reduction of cooling load by approx. 30 %). Strange, I think. Also, interestingly, for a south oriented zone, the "absorb inside" is mostly larger than "entering zone", for a west oriented zone, both values are more or less equal ... can that have something to do with incidence angles, the direct-to-diffuse ratio and reflection out again? By the way, ESRU, in above mentioned output there seems to be a small bug, the "Annual" line (last line of output table) seems to be too short, as the last one or two annual sums are not printed (to screen, at least). Thanks for any ideas. Best regards, Achim Geissler -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070816/76ad4a56/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Thu Aug 16 16:28:54 2007 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand (clcv10)) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 16:28:54 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Shading / Obstructions In-Reply-To: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C19573F@sgartgum1.gart.intra> References: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C19573F@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Message-ID: <68621BAE-2286-4450-A3C2-2147F48B94C0@esru.strath.ac.uk> A recent question on shading involved a model that worked ok with the zones facing south but after rotation there were warnings given for the shading analysis. This is the first report of a global rotation of zones and obstructions giving such a problem. Working shading is associated with obstructions being place at least a few mm in front of the surfaces. It might be numerically possible that the transforms associated with a global rotation has involved some rounding errors that have resulted in the obstructions and surfaces being considered as residing in the same plane - hence crossing-plane of surface warnings. One test would be to shift the position of the obstructions slightly farther away from the building and try again to rotate the model. Of course this could be done to a simple model first just to check and see if rounding is an issue. -ESRU From paul at esru.strath.ac.uk Sat Aug 18 12:35:53 2007 From: paul at esru.strath.ac.uk (paul strachan) Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 12:35:53 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Res output, what, exactly, is given? In-Reply-To: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C19585E@sgartgum1.gart.intra> References: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C19585E@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Message-ID: <46C6D999.2070308@esru.strath.ac.uk> Hi Achim, The "solar entering" is the amount entering the zone - it does not include any solar radiation absorbed in the glazing as it enters the zone, and it does not include any reduction for solar radiation leaving the zone. The solar radiation in the monthly gains/losses table corresponds with data you can get from the "solar processes" choice (e.g. if you get the mean value of "solar entering" from the solar processes table and multiply by the number of hours in the month, it agrees with the monthly gain - at least for the tests I did). The "cooling load" can be greater than the "solar entering" (even when there are no internal gains) because of the additional load caused by solar radiation absorbed in the glazing and transferred by radiation and convection into the zone. The "solar absorbed" in the zone should always be less than the the "solar entering" the zone. Regards Paul Geissler Achim wrote: > > Hi everybody, > > is there anybody out there, that can tell me what, exactly, the output > is for > > res > > (d) enquire about > > (l) monthly gains & losses > > ? Solar radiation ? > > ? Absorb ? entering ? > > ? Inside ? zone ? > > ? > > I would assume that ?absorb inside? is the solar radiation (direct and > diffuse) absorbed by all surfaces that receive short wave radiation > and ?entering zone? is short wave radiation entering (direct and > diffuse) minus direct reflected short wave radiation back out again. > Is this correct? > > However, I am not quite sure about this. I would have expected that > cooling load reduction and solar entering zone reduction when > introducing a shading obstruction would be similar (as we have no > internal loads and no ventilation, control to constant air > temperature, solar radiation is the main gain). This is not the case > in our model (reduction of solar entering by approx. 15 - 20 %, > reduction of cooling load by approx. 30 %). Strange, I think. > > Also, interestingly, for a south oriented zone, the ?absorb inside? is > mostly larger than ?entering zone?, for a west oriented zone, both > values are more or less equal ? can that have something to do with > incidence angles, the direct-to-diffuse ratio and reflection out again? > > By the way, ESRU, in above mentioned output there seems to be a small > bug, the ?Annual? line (last line of output table) seems to be too > short, as the last one or two annual sums are not printed (to screen, > at least). > > Thanks for any ideas. > > Best regards, > > Achim Geissler > From aakandil at ucalgary.ca Sun Aug 19 08:12:13 2007 From: aakandil at ucalgary.ca (Alaa Kandil) Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 01:12:13 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [esp-r] dxf import Message-ID: <62698.137.186.209.245.1187507533.squirrel@137.186.209.245> Hi every one, I tried hard to import a dxf file into ESP-r but failed. The program asks for a .cfg file. I tried to enter a new name for the .cfg file but the result was an empty model. I tried to pick an existing .cfg file but I got error messages related to missing parameters in the .cfg file. Can someone tell me the procedure to do it. I found only support materials about the criteria of the dxf file and its layer arrangement. Thanks Alaa Kandil University of Calgary Email: aakandil at ucalgary.ca tel: +1-403-282-9497 From ing.wong at ulster.ac.uk Wed Aug 22 10:21:44 2007 From: ing.wong at ulster.ac.uk (Ing Liang Wong) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 10:21:44 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Types of glass Message-ID: <000d01c7e49d$dc235550$19873dc1@wongcst> Dear all, I have a look at the types of glass and optical properties of the double-glazing (6-12-6mm) in ESP-r database and have a few questions. The absorptions at the external and internal clear float glass layers are taken from DCF7671_06nb, which appear to be: 0.157 0.172 0.185 0.201 0.202 0.117 0.124 0.127 0.112 0.077 1) Why are these values be so different, given the internal and external have the same thickness (both are 6mm thick)? 2) What are the type of glass used for double glazing? In construction database, plate glass has been used for the double-glazed windows; however, the optical properties are for clear float glass with vis transmittance of 0.76. Regards, Wong -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070822/e21ce31e/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Wed Aug 22 11:00:58 2007 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand (clcv10)) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 11:00:58 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Types of glass In-Reply-To: <000d01c7e49d$dc235550$19873dc1@wongcst> References: <000d01c7e49d$dc235550$19873dc1@wongcst> Message-ID: <4D30ECF6-BBCB-4826-84E4-115AF6421C4B@esru.strath.ac.uk> A recent question about optical properties (outside and inside panes) > The absorptions at the external and internal clear float glass > layers are taken from DCF7671_06nb, which appear to be: > 0.157 0.172 0.185 0.201 0.202 > 0.117 0.124 0.127 0.112 0.077 The treatment of optical properties, as calculated by tools such as WIS and Window 5.2 and used by simulation tools such as ESP-r are based on absorption being calculated from the outside to the inside. The absorption of an inner layer, is, by tradition, calculated "relative" to that of an outer layers. Another way of saying this is if 100 units reach the outer glass and it absorbs 40 units any inside layers of glass can only know about the remaining 60 units rather than the initial 100 units. The values seen in the optical database take this into account. In ESP-r the thermophysical properties of glass are held separately from the optial properties of the glass. A thermophysical material labeled as clear float might have a range of possible optical properties. It is up to authors that define databases and the links between databases to ensure that the names of the entities are clear and the correct associations are defined. It is certainly the case that some of the names that have been given to database entities are a bit opaque. We are working towards allowing longer (and hopefully more expressive names). -ESRU -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070822/4c811d2e/attachment.html From hugolacerda at gmail.com Tue Aug 28 01:52:18 2007 From: hugolacerda at gmail.com (Hugo Lacerda) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 01:52:18 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] ESP-r Version 11.3 - increase the number of zones Message-ID: Dear all, I have a Version 11.3 of the ESP-r installed on Fedora Core 6 operating system. I need to increase the number of zones in my model and i don't no how to do it. There is no longer a "/esp-r/include folder", like it was in older versions of ESP-r and i don't no what "include folder of the source distribution is used" means. How to proceed? Thank you very much! Best regards, Hugo Lacerda -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070828/59b17a55/attachment.html From george.wallis at blueyonder.co.uk Tue Aug 28 18:31:33 2007 From: george.wallis at blueyonder.co.uk (George Wallis) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 18:31:33 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: esp-r Digest, Vol 13, Issue 10 HELP - Ploycarb/Perspex In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000001c7e999$47550210$6401a8c0@myw5n> Are there any values available for double thickness polycarb, such as would be used in a large greenhouse? Regards George -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of esp-r-request at lists.strath.ac.uk Sent: 22 August 2007 12:00 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: esp-r Digest, Vol 13, Issue 10 Send esp-r mailing list submissions to esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to esp-r-request at lists.strath.ac.uk You can reach the person managing the list at esp-r-owner at lists.strath.ac.uk When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of esp-r digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Types of glass (Ing Liang Wong) 2. Re: Types of glass (Jon Hand (clcv10)) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 10:21:44 +0100 From: "Ing Liang Wong" Subject: [esp-r] Types of glass To: Message-ID: <000d01c7e49d$dc235550$19873dc1 at wongcst> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="big5" Dear all, I have a look at the types of glass and optical properties of the double-glazing (6-12-6mm) in ESP-r database and have a few questions. The absorptions at the external and internal clear float glass layers are taken from DCF7671_06nb, which appear to be: 0.157 0.172 0.185 0.201 0.202 0.117 0.124 0.127 0.112 0.077 1) Why are these values be so different, given the internal and external have the same thickness (both are 6mm thick)? 2) What are the type of glass used for double glazing? In construction database, plate glass has been used for the double-glazed windows; however, the optical properties are for clear float glass with vis transmittance of 0.76. Regards, Wong -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070822/e21ce31e/attac hment-0001.html ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 11:00:58 +0100 From: "Jon Hand (clcv10)" Subject: [esp-r] Re: Types of glass To: "Ing Liang Wong" Cc: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Message-ID: <4D30ECF6-BBCB-4826-84E4-115AF6421C4B at esru.strath.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" A recent question about optical properties (outside and inside panes) > The absorptions at the external and internal clear float glass > layers are taken from DCF7671_06nb, which appear to be: > 0.157 0.172 0.185 0.201 0.202 > 0.117 0.124 0.127 0.112 0.077 The treatment of optical properties, as calculated by tools such as WIS and Window 5.2 and used by simulation tools such as ESP-r are based on absorption being calculated from the outside to the inside. The absorption of an inner layer, is, by tradition, calculated "relative" to that of an outer layers. Another way of saying this is if 100 units reach the outer glass and it absorbs 40 units any inside layers of glass can only know about the remaining 60 units rather than the initial 100 units. The values seen in the optical database take this into account. In ESP-r the thermophysical properties of glass are held separately from the optial properties of the glass. A thermophysical material labeled as clear float might have a range of possible optical properties. It is up to authors that define databases and the links between databases to ensure that the names of the entities are clear and the correct associations are defined. It is certainly the case that some of the names that have been given to database entities are a bit opaque. We are working towards allowing longer (and hopefully more expressive names). -ESRU -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070822/4c811d2e/attac hment-0001.html ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r End of esp-r Digest, Vol 13, Issue 10 ************************************* From Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch Wed Aug 29 10:48:14 2007 From: Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch (Geissler Achim) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 11:48:14 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: esp-r Digest, Vol 13, Issue 10 HELP - Ploycarb/Perspex References: <000001c7e999$47550210$6401a8c0@myw5n> Message-ID: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C1C5006@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Hi George, the IGDB (Window, LBNL) has a few entries e.g. on "Lexan(R)". You could build together whatever you need from that, possibly. Best regards, Achim Mit freundlichen Gr?ssen / Best regards Achim Geissler > -----Original Message----- > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r- > bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of George Wallis > Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 7:32 PM > To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Subject: [esp-r] Re: esp-r Digest, Vol 13, Issue 10 HELP - > Ploycarb/Perspex > > Are there any values available for double thickness polycarb, such as > would > be used in a large greenhouse? > > Regards > > George > > -----Original Message----- > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk > [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of > esp-r-request at lists.strath.ac.uk > Sent: 22 August 2007 12:00 > To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Subject: esp-r Digest, Vol 13, Issue 10 > > Send esp-r mailing list submissions to > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > esp-r-request at lists.strath.ac.uk > > You can reach the person managing the list at > esp-r-owner at lists.strath.ac.uk > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of esp-r digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Types of glass (Ing Liang Wong) > 2. Re: Types of glass (Jon Hand (clcv10)) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 10:21:44 +0100 > From: "Ing Liang Wong" > Subject: [esp-r] Types of glass > To: > Message-ID: <000d01c7e49d$dc235550$19873dc1 at wongcst> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="big5" > > Dear all, > > I have a look at the types of glass and optical properties of the > double-glazing (6-12-6mm) in ESP-r database and have a few questions. > > The absorptions at the external and internal clear float glass layers are > taken from DCF7671_06nb, which appear to be: > 0.157 0.172 0.185 0.201 0.202 > 0.117 0.124 0.127 0.112 0.077 > > 1) Why are these values be so different, given the internal and external > have the same thickness (both are 6mm thick)? > > 2) What are the type of glass used for double glazing? In construction > database, plate glass has been used for the double-glazed windows; however, > the optical properties are for clear float glass with vis transmittance of > 0.76. > > Regards, > Wong > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp- > r/attachments/20070822/e21ce31e/attac > hment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 11:00:58 +0100 > From: "Jon Hand (clcv10)" > Subject: [esp-r] Re: Types of glass > To: "Ing Liang Wong" > Cc: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Message-ID: <4D30ECF6-BBCB-4826-84E4-115AF6421C4B at esru.strath.ac.uk> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > A recent question about optical properties (outside and inside panes) > > > The absorptions at the external and internal clear float glass > > layers are taken from DCF7671_06nb, which appear to be: > > 0.157 0.172 0.185 0.201 0.202 > > 0.117 0.124 0.127 0.112 0.077 > > The treatment of optical properties, as calculated by tools such as > WIS and > Window 5.2 and used by simulation tools such as ESP-r are based on > absorption being calculated from the outside to the inside. > > The absorption of an inner layer, is, by tradition, calculated > "relative" to that of > an outer layers. Another way of saying this is if 100 units reach > the outer glass > and it absorbs 40 units any inside layers of glass can only know > about the > remaining 60 units rather than the initial 100 units. The values > seen in the > optical database take this into account. > > In ESP-r the thermophysical properties of glass are held separately from > the optial properties of the glass. A thermophysical material > labeled as > clear float might have a range of possible optical properties. It is > up to > authors that define databases and the links between databases to ensure > that the names of the entities are clear and the correct associations > are defined. It is certainly the case that some of the names that have > been given to database entities are a bit opaque. We are working > towards > allowing longer (and hopefully more expressive names). > > -ESRU > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp- > r/attachments/20070822/4c811d2e/attac > hment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > > End of esp-r Digest, Vol 13, Issue 10 > ************************************* > > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Wed Aug 29 17:29:24 2007 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand (clcv10)) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 17:29:24 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: ESP-r Version 11.3 - increase the number of zones In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: A user asked about getting more zones.... > > I have a Version 11.3 of the ESP-r installed on Fedora Core 6 > operating system. > > I need to increase the number of zones in my model and i don't no > how to do it. > There is no longer a "/esp-r/include folder", like it was in older > versions of ESP-r and i don't no what "include folder of the source > distribution is used" means. This topic comes up regularly. There is, of course the 'health warning' that always goes out - complex models can be frustrating to create and can eat up staff time and computing resources. If you are a novice there are any number of experienced users who will advise you against attempting complex models until you have evolved your working practices in models of moderate complexity. Changing the maximum number of zones requires a recompile. It requires that you modify a file called building.h which is in a folder called 'include' within the source distribution. There are, in fact a number of existing variants of building.h with names like building52.h and building62.h which relate to altering the maximum number of surfaces in a zone. The current development_branch of ESP-r includes a file building4262.h which increases the number of zones to 42. ESP-r has been tested to 80 zones but that is at the bleeding-edge and we would not recommend that yet for 'production work', There are instructions on the web about how to 'checkout' the current development branch using a 'subversion' client. In the source code are further documentation. There is also a discussion list used by the development community. -ESRU From M.Mirsadeghi at tue.nl Sat Sep 1 11:18:14 2007 From: M.Mirsadeghi at tue.nl (Mirsadeghi, M.) Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 12:18:14 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Temperature profile and external surfaces Message-ID: Dear All, Is it possible to assign a specific temperature profile to the external surfaces of a zone in ESP-r? and is it possible to do that by ground temperature profile in model context menu? Thanks, M. Mirsadeghi From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Sat Sep 1 13:30:34 2007 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 13:30:34 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Temperature profile and external surfaces References: Message-ID: A recent question: ::Is it possible to assign a specific temperature profile to the external surfaces of a zone in ESP-r? and is it possible to do ::that by ground temperature profile in model context menu? It depends on the frequency of the change in temperature on the 'other-side'. If the temperature changes on a monthly basis then the ground temperature profile is useful - you can define new profiles in the project manager under the model context menu. If the temperature on the other side follows a repeating pattern (e.g. such as you might describe in a zone environmental control you could define a bounding zone and use an ideal zone controller to force the temperature of that bounding zone to be at a specific temperature. If the temperature change is measured at a fixed frequency you could include this information in a so-called temporal file as a setpoint type and then associate this timestep data to control a bounding zone temperature to match the measured value. If the temperature on the 'other-side' is a constant offset from the current zone then you can include temperature offset when you define a 'similar/dynamix' connection type. -ESRU From aakandil at ucalgary.ca Sat Sep 1 21:48:05 2007 From: aakandil at ucalgary.ca (Alaa Kandil) Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 14:48:05 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [esp-r] Dxf import Message-ID: <61029.137.186.209.245.1188679685.squirrel@137.186.209.245> Hi every one, I tried hard to import a dxf file into ESP-r but failed. The program asks for a .cfg file. I tried to enter a new name for the .cfg file but the result was an empty model. I tried to pick an existing .cfg file but I got error messages related to missing parameters in the .cfg file. Can someone tell me the procedure to do it. I found only support materials about the criteria of the dxf file and its layer arrangement. Thanks Alaa Kandil University of Calgary Email: aakandil at ucalgary.ca tel: +1-403-282-9497 From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Sun Sep 2 01:18:05 2007 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2007 01:18:05 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Dxf import References: <61029.137.186.209.245.1188679685.squirrel@137.186.209.245> Message-ID: A recent question about importing DXF CAD data into a model... The import facility assumes that you are importing into an existing ESP-r model which does not have any zones defined. To do this start up the project manger (prj) and ask to create a new model. Supply it with the initial site information that it asks for. Click on 'save' or 'save as' and make a note of the file name that has been created. This is the ESP-r configuration file that the import funcition requires. When using the DXF import function remember to have saved the DXF file as version 12 (the last version that there was a freely available description of the contents). When giving the name of the DXF file include the full (explicit) path as well. There have been past discussions about the specific contents of DXF files that are recognised (3DFACE and 3DPOLY) and the rules (each zone is on a separately named layer). An easy way to find out the entities is to export a current ESP-r model as a DXF file and look at the contents. Some users have noted that if the import process fails the messages genereated are somewhat opaque. We have recently started to investigate such issues but work is not yet complete. Remember that an alternative to direct import is (for the X11 version of ESP-r) to turn the CAD data into a bitmap and then use the click-on-bitmap function in prj to create new zones. Sometimes this is faster and allows much more control of which CAD entities you choose to include in your model. -ESRU -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk on behalf of Alaa Kandil Sent: Sat 9/1/2007 9:48 PM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Dxf import Hi every one, I tried hard to import a dxf file into ESP-r but failed. The program asks for a .cfg file. I tried to enter a new name for the .cfg file but the result was an empty model. I tried to pick an existing .cfg file but I got error messages related to missing parameters in the .cfg file. Can someone tell me the procedure to do it. I found only support materials about the criteria of the dxf file and its layer arrangement. Thanks Alaa Kandil University of Calgary Email: aakandil at ucalgary.ca tel: +1-403-282-9497 _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From nofreak at gmx.net Mon Sep 3 14:33:40 2007 From: nofreak at gmx.net (nofreak) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 15:33:40 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Installation help (Mac)? Message-ID: Hello! For a couple of hours I am trying to install esp-r on my mac now. Unfortunately without any luck so far... Does anyone know a step by step installation guide, forum post or sth explaining exactly what to do? Maybe someone posted it already in this newsletter? Thank you very much in advance, Niko Heeren. From blomanow at engmail.uwaterloo.ca Tue Sep 4 15:13:54 2007 From: blomanow at engmail.uwaterloo.ca (Bart Lomanowski) Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2007 10:13:54 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] model/zone file creation Message-ID: <1188915234.46dd68224eb27@www.nexusmail.uwaterloo.ca> Hello, I have recently compiled ESP-r v11.3 (r1792) from the development_branch and am experiencing a strange problem. During the creation of a model, ESP-r is unable to create any model/zone files. When I define a zone in 'geometry and attribution', then save the *.geo file and exit back to 'zones composition' menu, ESP-r is unable to find the *.geo file. In fact, the model folders do not contain any files (.cfg,.cnn, etc.). I am running ESP-r in Cygwin and have not had such a problem with previous releases. Has anyone else experienced this? Thanks, --- Bartosz Lomanowski MASc Candidate Solar Thermal Research Lab Department of Mechanical Engineering University of Waterloo 200 University Avenue West Waterloo, Ontario, Canada N2L 3G1 +1 519 888 4567 x33885 From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Tue Sep 4 15:57:13 2007 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 15:57:13 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: model/zone file creation References: <1188915234.46dd68224eb27@www.nexusmail.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: This is a know problem and has been fixed and marked as an urgent 'please-take-this'. It is in the queue to move into the development branch. Essentailly the path variable name is being corrupted because an error message is overwirting it in esruprj/folders.F near line 264. Look for a statement begining with write(path -Jon Hand -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk on behalf of Bart Lomanowski Sent: Tue 9/4/2007 3:13 PM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] model/zone file creation Hello, I have recently compiled ESP-r v11.3 (r1792) from the development_branch and am experiencing a strange problem. During the creation of a model, ESP-r is unable to create any model/zone files. When I define a zone in 'geometry and attribution', then save the *.geo file and exit back to 'zones composition' menu, ESP-r is unable to find the *.geo file. In fact, the model folders do not contain any files (.cfg,.cnn, etc.). I am running ESP-r in Cygwin and have not had such a problem with previous releases. Has anyone else experienced this? Thanks, --- Bartosz Lomanowski MASc Candidate Solar Thermal Research Lab Department of Mechanical Engineering University of Waterloo 200 University Avenue West Waterloo, Ontario, Canada N2L 3G1 +1 519 888 4567 x33885 _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Tue Sep 4 15:58:09 2007 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 15:58:09 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Installation help (Mac)? References: Message-ID: A recent question about compiling on a mac... ::Does anyone know a step by step installation guide, forum post or sth ::explaining exactly what to do? Maybe someone posted it already in ::this newsletter? Look for a file named setting_up_osx.txt in the manual/OS/Apple folder of the source distribution. This document was written for PPC versions of Apple computers and it has a few typographial errors in it, but it generally covers the steps. Also check to see if there is a readme file on the download site for the OSX precompiled version. -ESRU _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From AFerguso at NRCan.gc.ca Wed Sep 5 12:13:04 2007 From: AFerguso at NRCan.gc.ca (Ferguson, Alex) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 07:13:04 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] Re: model/zone file creation In-Reply-To: References: <1188915234.46dd68224eb27@www.nexusmail.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Revision 1794 on development branch corrects this error. Working copies of development_branch can be updated using the 'svn update' command, while sub-branches can be updated following the instructions included in http://www.esru.strath.ac.uk/Documents/subversion.pdf Note that these changes only affect the development branch and developer-specific sub-branches on ESP-r central. Readers who use pre-compiled ESP-r binaries obtained from ESRU's website, or who compile ESP-r from the release branch can safely ignore these messages. Happy merging, - Alex -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Jon Hand Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 10:57 To: Bart Lomanowski; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Re: model/zone file creation This is a know problem and has been fixed and marked as an urgent 'please-take-this'. It is in the queue to move into the development branch. Essentailly the path variable name is being corrupted because an error message is overwirting it in esruprj/folders.F near line 264. Look for a statement begining with write(path -Jon Hand -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk on behalf of Bart Lomanowski Sent: Tue 9/4/2007 3:13 PM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] model/zone file creation Hello, I have recently compiled ESP-r v11.3 (r1792) from the development_branch and am experiencing a strange problem. During the creation of a model, ESP-r is unable to create any model/zone files. When I define a zone in 'geometry and attribution', then save the *.geo file and exit back to 'zones composition' menu, ESP-r is unable to find the *.geo file. In fact, the model folders do not contain any files (.cfg,.cnn, etc.). I am running ESP-r in Cygwin and have not had such a problem with previous releases. Has anyone else experienced this? Thanks, --- Bartosz Lomanowski MASc Candidate Solar Thermal Research Lab Department of Mechanical Engineering University of Waterloo 200 University Avenue West Waterloo, Ontario, Canada N2L 3G1 +1 519 888 4567 x33885 _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From daviddardenne at gmail.com Tue Sep 4 11:10:22 2007 From: daviddardenne at gmail.com (David Dardenne) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 12:10:22 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Installation help (Mac)? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5f1334b40709040310v6e2de827vaf611336c74b7c1d@mail.gmail.com> If you try with the native windows or mac files... Its very instable.. You have to install cygwin and after ESP-R http://www.esru.strath.ac.uk/Programs/ESP-r_install.htm 2007/9/3, nofreak : > > Hello! > > For a couple of hours I am trying to install esp-r on my mac now. > Unfortunately without any luck so far... > > Does anyone know a step by step installation guide, forum post or sth > explaining exactly what to do? Maybe someone posted it already in > this newsletter? > > Thank you very much in advance, > Niko Heeren. > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070904/99688dde/attachment.html From woehrle at umt-ulm.de Tue Sep 11 00:41:24 2007 From: woehrle at umt-ulm.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Heiko_W=F6hrle?=) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 01:41:24 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] ISH problem: ignored (X face of...) Message-ID: <99BE149AB338E342A63612933E70F6CF08272C@winsbs.umt-ulm.local> Hello, after trying to set up a new modell with obstructions i expirienced the follwoing error: for every surface calculation i get an error: Block ObstrBlock ignored (X face of Surf-5 ) @ time ... There are no shading results. The error occurs not only at complex models with tiny spaces between obstructions and zone-surfaces but although if i just draw a new zone as a box an put one obstruction in front of it.... (see screenshot) To make it even more difficult: if i put an obstruction in front of an exepmlar project, the callculation works fine... i red the posting from jon (08.11.2006) about shading but the hints didn't resolve my problem... Thanks for any ideas! Best regards, Heiko W?hrle -- um+t Umweltmanagement und -technik GmbH Lise-Meitner-Str. 15 89081 Ulm Tel. 0731 / 50 99 55 2 Fax 0731 / 50 99 50 0 Sitz der Gesellschaft: Ulm / HRB 4954 Ulm Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Thomas Hartmann -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070911/749c1636/attachment-0001.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 108237 bytes Desc: Outlook.jpg Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070911/749c1636/attachment-0001.jpe From Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch Wed Sep 12 07:37:49 2007 From: Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch (Geissler Achim) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 08:37:49 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: ISH problem: ignored (X face of...) References: <99BE149AB338E342A63612933E70F6CF08272C@winsbs.umt-ulm.local> Message-ID: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C1C5A08@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Hi Heiko, checking the mail you quote I noticed one important point seems to be missing: The shaded surface should have a horizontal "first edge" (edge between first two vertices). Its best to have this first edge be the lower one, in addition. Regards, Achim ________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Heiko W?hrle Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2007 1:41 AM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] ISH problem: ignored (X face of...) Hello, after trying to set up a new modell with obstructions i expirienced the follwoing error: for every surface calculation i get an error: Block ObstrBlock ignored (X face of Surf-5 ) @ time ... There are no shading results. The error occurs not only at complex models with tiny spaces between obstructions and zone-surfaces but although if i just draw a new zone as a box an put one obstruction in front of it.... (see screenshot) To make it even more difficult: if i put an obstruction in front of an exepmlar project, the callculation works fine... i red the posting from jon (08.11.2006) about shading but the hints didn't resolve my problem... Thanks for any ideas! Best regards, Heiko W?hrle -- um+t Umweltmanagement und -technik GmbH Lise-Meitner-Str. 15 89081 Ulm Tel. 0731 / 50 99 55 2 Fax 0731 / 50 99 50 0 Sitz der Gesellschaft: Ulm / HRB 4954 Ulm Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Thomas Hartmann -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070912/386b43e8/attachment.html From Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch Wed Sep 12 07:35:07 2007 From: Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch (Geissler Achim) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 08:35:07 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: ISH problem: ignored (X face of...) References: <99BE149AB338E342A63612933E70F6CF08272C@winsbs.umt-ulm.local> Message-ID: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C1C5A05@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Hi Heiko, checking the mail you quote I noticed one important point seems to be missing: The shaded surface should have a horizontal "first edge" (edge between first two vertices). Its best to have this first edge be the lower one, in addition. Regards, Achim ________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Heiko W?hrle Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2007 1:41 AM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] ISH problem: ignored (X face of...) Hello, after trying to set up a new modell with obstructions i expirienced the follwoing error: for every surface calculation i get an error: Block ObstrBlock ignored (X face of Surf-5 ) @ time ... There are no shading results. The error occurs not only at complex models with tiny spaces between obstructions and zone-surfaces but although if i just draw a new zone as a box an put one obstruction in front of it.... (see screenshot) To make it even more difficult: if i put an obstruction in front of an exepmlar project, the callculation works fine... i red the posting from jon (08.11.2006) about shading but the hints didn't resolve my problem... Thanks for any ideas! Best regards, Heiko W?hrle -- um+t Umweltmanagement und -technik GmbH Lise-Meitner-Str. 15 89081 Ulm Tel. 0731 / 50 99 55 2 Fax 0731 / 50 99 50 0 Sitz der Gesellschaft: Ulm / HRB 4954 Ulm Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Thomas Hartmann -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070912/a75f9492/attachment-0001.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 108237 bytes Desc: image001.jpg Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070912/a75f9492/attachment-0001.jpe From woehrle at umt-ulm.de Thu Sep 13 14:00:08 2007 From: woehrle at umt-ulm.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Heiko_W=F6hrle?=) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 15:00:08 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: ISH problem: ignored (X face of...) In-Reply-To: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C1C5A05@sgartgum1.gart.intra> References: <99BE149AB338E342A63612933E70F6CF08272C@winsbs.umt-ulm.local> <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C1C5A05@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Message-ID: <99BE149AB338E342A63612933E70F6CF082780@winsbs.umt-ulm.local> Hi Achim, thanks for the tip, but the first edge is already the bottom-horizontal, the next edge is a vertical... looks like a problem of the windows version. After Georgius' tip i used a linux-version and there it worked. Maybe ish uses a part of radiance for the calculation, whose esp-r supprot isn't comprised under windows yet...? Best regards, Heiko ________________________________ Von: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] Im Auftrag von Geissler Achim Gesendet: Mittwoch, 12. September 2007 08:35 An: Heiko W?hrle; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Betreff: [esp-r] Re: ISH problem: ignored (X face of...) Hi Heiko, checking the mail you quote I noticed one important point seems to be missing: The shaded surface should have a horizontal "first edge" (edge between first two vertices). Its best to have this first edge be the lower one, in addition. Regards, Achim ________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Heiko W?hrle Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2007 1:41 AM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] ISH problem: ignored (X face of...) Hello, after trying to set up a new modell with obstructions i expirienced the follwoing error: for every surface calculation i get an error: Block ObstrBlock ignored (X face of Surf-5 ) @ time ... There are no shading results. The error occurs not only at complex models with tiny spaces between obstructions and zone-surfaces but although if i just draw a new zone as a box an put one obstruction in front of it.... (see screenshot) To make it even more difficult: if i put an obstruction in front of an exepmlar project, the callculation works fine... i red the posting from jon (08.11.2006) about shading but the hints didn't resolve my problem... Thanks for any ideas! Best regards, Heiko W?hrle -- um+t Umweltmanagement und -technik GmbH Lise-Meitner-Str. 15 89081 Ulm Tel. 0731 / 50 99 55 2 Fax 0731 / 50 99 50 0 Sitz der Gesellschaft: Ulm / HRB 4954 Ulm Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Thomas Hartmann -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070913/bb90cd0d/attachment-0001.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 108237 bytes Desc: image001.jpg Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070913/bb90cd0d/attachment-0001.jpe From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Thu Sep 13 15:27:02 2007 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 15:27:02 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: ISH problem: ignored (X face of...) References: <99BE149AB338E342A63612933E70F6CF08272C@winsbs.umt-ulm.local><5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C1C5A05@sgartgum1.gart.intra> <99BE149AB338E342A63612933E70F6CF082780@winsbs.umt-ulm.local> Message-ID: In cases where the Linux and Native Windows version do no agree on calculations it would be good to send the model (with appropriate notes) to ESRU so that we could investigate the differences. -ESRU -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk on behalf of Heiko W?hrle Sent: Thu 9/13/2007 2:00 PM To: Geissler Achim; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Re: ISH problem: ignored (X face of...) Hi Achim, thanks for the tip, but the first edge is already the bottom-horizontal, the next edge is a vertical... looks like a problem of the windows version. After Georgius' tip i used a linux-version and there it worked. Maybe ish uses a part of radiance for the calculation, whose esp-r supprot isn't comprised under windows yet...? Best regards, Heiko ________________________________ Von: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] Im Auftrag von Geissler Achim Gesendet: Mittwoch, 12. September 2007 08:35 An: Heiko W?hrle; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Betreff: [esp-r] Re: ISH problem: ignored (X face of...) Hi Heiko, checking the mail you quote I noticed one important point seems to be missing: The shaded surface should have a horizontal "first edge" (edge between first two vertices). Its best to have this first edge be the lower one, in addition. Regards, Achim ________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Heiko W?hrle Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2007 1:41 AM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] ISH problem: ignored (X face of...) Hello, after trying to set up a new modell with obstructions i expirienced the follwoing error: for every surface calculation i get an error: Block ObstrBlock ignored (X face of Surf-5 ) @ time ... There are no shading results. The error occurs not only at complex models with tiny spaces between obstructions and zone-surfaces but although if i just draw a new zone as a box an put one obstruction in front of it.... (see screenshot) To make it even more difficult: if i put an obstruction in front of an exepmlar project, the callculation works fine... i red the posting from jon (08.11.2006) about shading but the hints didn't resolve my problem... Thanks for any ideas! Best regards, Heiko W?hrle -- um+t Umweltmanagement und -technik GmbH Lise-Meitner-Str. 15 89081 Ulm Tel. 0731 / 50 99 55 2 Fax 0731 / 50 99 50 0 Sitz der Gesellschaft: Ulm / HRB 4954 Ulm Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Thomas Hartmann -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 108237 bytes Desc: image001.jpg Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070913/ecd9da2f/attachment-0001.jpg From ali.fallahi at gmail.com Mon Sep 17 02:27:26 2007 From: ali.fallahi at gmail.com (Ali fallahi) Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 21:27:26 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] Temporal file Message-ID: <443e3ca80709161827j5f941578w5f99c5a2de37025b@mail.gmail.com> Dear All, I am modeling a double-pane window with ESP-r and then comparing the results with measurements from outdoor test cell. I got these problems in modeling: Radiation: 1- My measurements are global vertical solar radiation. Is there any way to use these data directly as input to ESP-r or it needs to be decomposed to its components first? I tried to use "short timestep (temporal) data / GLOVRTT" but it didn't work and I got this message " No data found, pick another type! " 2- In the case that I want to use controllers to sense direct normal solar radiation incident on a specific surface , which "control law" would be more appropriate? Convection: For Convection coefficient correlation from "Bar-Cohen and Rohsenow for buoyancy driven flow in vertical channels" when referring to source code it seems that in calculation of Rayleigh number, beta ( thermal expansion coefficient) is 1/Centigrade instead of being 1/Kelvin! Moreover, if this correlation is used for more than one zone, trace facility shows that IAORZ has always one value and that is the latest value specified in HTC file instead of having different values for different air origin zones. I would be pleased if someone could answer my questions. Best Regards, Ali Fallahi From jeremy at esru.strath.ac.uk Mon Sep 17 09:58:27 2007 From: jeremy at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jeremy Cockroft) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 09:58:27 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Virtual Building Test Platform Project - Job Vacancy Message-ID: <221C1AC3541E7D4FB09EB58B16FFEF4A0117306A@BE-SCAM2.ds.strath.ac.uk> Dear Colleagues, Dublin Institute of Technology are embarking on a ground-breaking Enterprise Ireland funded project 'Virtual Building Test Platform'. It is all about integration of software based control systems with ESP-r. We at Strathclyde are involved in a support role. DIT are on the lookout for a Research Associate, based in Dublin. See the attached ad. Note that applications have to be in by Friday. Regards, Jeremy Cockroft Energy Systems Research Unit University of Strathclyde 75 Montrose Street Glasgow G1 1XJ phone +44(0)141 548 5765 fax +44(0)141 552 5105 email jeremy at sesg.strath.ac.uk website www.sesg.strath.ac.uk -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: vBTP Research Assistant job ad 16 Sept 07.doc Type: application/msword Size: 34816 bytes Desc: vBTP Research Assistant job ad 16 Sept 07.doc Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070917/1e1ec796/attachment-0001.doc From paul at esru.strath.ac.uk Mon Sep 17 21:39:47 2007 From: paul at esru.strath.ac.uk (paul strachan) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 21:39:47 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Temporal file In-Reply-To: <443e3ca80709161827j5f941578w5f99c5a2de37025b@mail.gmail.com> References: <443e3ca80709161827j5f941578w5f99c5a2de37025b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <46EEE613.8050305@esru.strath.ac.uk> Dear Ali, Regarding the measured vertical solar radiation, the only way at present to use this is to use a facility in the simulation toggles of the simulator (note password is 101). If you put the measured data in a single column in a text file, then you can use this in the simulator - note you will need to make sure that the data includes simulation start-up days and use simulation timesteps to correspond to the data in the file. As ESP-r needs the direct and diffuse radiation separately, ESP-r uses the data in the climate file to calculate the direct and diffuse for the vertical surface. It uses the resulting direct/diffuse ratio to split the measured solar radiation into its direct and diffuse components. For control, it is possible to switch between different optical properties based on the surface irradiation - go to the construction file and select "transparent layer properties". Thanks for your observations on the channel flow convection algorithm - we'll look at this. Regards Paul Ali fallahi wrote: > Dear All, > > I am modeling a double-pane window with ESP-r and then comparing the > results with measurements from outdoor test cell. I got these problems > in modeling: > > Radiation: > > 1- My measurements are global vertical solar radiation. Is there any > way to use these data directly as input to ESP-r or it needs to be > decomposed to its components first? I tried to use "short timestep > (temporal) data / GLOVRTT" but it didn't work and I got this message " > No data found, pick another type! " > > 2- In the case that I want to use controllers to sense direct normal > solar radiation incident on a specific surface , which "control law" > would be more appropriate? > > > Convection: > > For Convection coefficient correlation from "Bar-Cohen and Rohsenow > for buoyancy driven flow in vertical channels" when referring to > source code it seems that in calculation of Rayleigh number, beta ( > thermal expansion coefficient) is 1/Centigrade instead of being > 1/Kelvin! Moreover, if this correlation is used for more than one > zone, trace facility shows that IAORZ has always one value and that > is the latest value specified in HTC file instead of having different > values for different air origin zones. > > I would be pleased if someone could answer my questions. > > Best Regards, > Ali Fallahi > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > -- *************************************************************** Dr P A Strachan email: paul at esru.strath.ac.uk ESRU, Dept. of Mechanical Eng. phone: +44 141 548 2041 University of Strathclyde fax: +44 141 552 5105 Glasgow G1 1XJ, UK http://www.esru.strath.ac.uk *************************************************************** From Denis.Bourgeois at arc.ulaval.ca Tue Sep 18 01:35:21 2007 From: Denis.Bourgeois at arc.ulaval.ca (Denis J. Bourgeois) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 20:35:21 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] eSim 2008 - Call for Abstracts Message-ID: (apologies for cross postings) Call for abstracts - eSim 2008 21-22 May 2008 Qu?bec City, Canada www.esim.ca The bi-annual conference of IBPSA-Canada is being organized to bring together professionals, academics and students interested in building performance simulation issues and applications. It will be held in Qu?bec City, Canada on May 21 and 22, 2008 (pre-conference workshops May 20, 2008). The conference will be hosted by l'?cole d'architecture de l'Universit? Laval in Qu?bec City, in collaboration with the National Research Council of Canada. L'?cole d'architecture, part of the Facult? d'am?nagement, d'architecture et des arts visuels de l'Universit? Laval, is located within the fortifications of the historic district of Qu?bec City. The nearby Mus?e de la civilisation, located in the city's old port district will serve as the main conference venue (www.mcq.org ). 2008 will be a landmark year for Qu?bec as the city will be celebrating the 400th anniversary of its founding in 1608. Although most celebrations will be held from June to August, the end of May is expected to be a festive - and busy - time of year in this part of the city (www.monquebec2008.com ). Attendees are encouraged to book hotel rooms as soon as possible. Please visit the conference web site www.esim.ca for more information. Only original papers related to the conference topics and not published elsewhere will be accepted. All accepted papers accompanied by a conference registration will be published in the conference proceedings, and presented at the conference in parallel oral sessions. In the event submissions exceed the conference presentation quota, poster sessions will be held to accommodate additional papers. Each registration entitles the author to submit a single paper/poster. One additional paper/poster per registration is allowed against a special fee. Conference themes * Recent developments for modelling the physical processes relevant to buildings (thermal, air flow, moisture, lighting). * Algorithms for modelling conventional and innovative HVAC systems. * Methods for modelling the whole-building performance, including integrated resource management, renewable energy sources and combined heat, cool and power generation. * Building simulation software development and quality control approaches. * Use of building simulation tools in code compliance and incentive programmes. * Moving simulation into practice. Case studies of innovative simulation approaches. * Validation of building simulation software. * User interface and software interoperability issues. * Architectural and engineering data visualization and animation. * Optimization approaches in building design The deadline for abstracts is: Monday, October 22, 2007. The abstract must be in plain text and be a maximum of 500 words. eSim 2008 is a bilingual conference and abstracts, papers and presentations will be accepted in either English or French. Please submit abstracts to the eSim 2008 web site at: www.esim.ca At least two reviewers will be assigned by the Scientific Executive Committee to examine each abstract in a double-blind review process. Corresponding authors will be informed of the abstract review results by December 4, 2007. Conference Chair: Dr. Denis Bourgeois denis.bourgeois at arc.ulaval.ca Chair of the Scientific Committee: Dr. Christoph Reinhart christoph.reinhart at nrc-cnrc.gc.ca -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070917/abd71f66/attachment.html From hugolacerda at gmail.com Tue Sep 18 15:43:24 2007 From: hugolacerda at gmail.com (Hugo Lacerda) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 15:43:24 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Swimming Pool Message-ID: Dear all, I have a Version 11.3 of the ESP-r installed on Fedora Core 6 operating system. I need to include indoor swimming pool in my model. After define the "evaporative surface" in the "zone controls - period data" sub-menu and a evaporative surface in "special components" I would like to now how to link them and how insert the swimming pool in the model and define the parameters. How to proceed? Thank you very much! Best regards, Hugo Lacerda -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070918/5bb2e170/attachment.html From oliver.bucks at club-internet.fr Wed Sep 19 09:11:11 2007 From: oliver.bucks at club-internet.fr (Oliver Bucks) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 10:11:11 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Swimming Pool References: Message-ID: <001701c7fa94$a4673700$8e00a8c0@olli> Hi Hugo, I remember using the "evaporative surface" option when modelling a solar waste-water mud drier. It wasn't that straight-forward.....From memory, a couple of the menus were not quite up to scratch yet.....I seem to remember having to click on a different menu option in order to get what I wanted..... I will get back to you when I have dived back into these modules, I am also modelling an olympic swimming pool complex in France (arrgh) so will soon face the same old problems....! Cheers ----- Original Message ----- From: Hugo Lacerda To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 4:43 PM Subject: [esp-r] Swimming Pool Dear all, I have a Version 11.3 of the ESP-r installed on Fedora Core 6 operating system. I need to include indoor swimming pool in my model. After define the "evaporative surface" in the "zone controls - period data" sub-menu and a evaporative surface in "special components" I would like to now how to link them and how insert the swimming pool in the model and define the parameters. How to proceed? Thank you very much! Best regards, Hugo Lacerda ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.487 / Virus Database: 269.13.22/1013 - Release Date: 17/09/2007 13:29 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070919/3f0d127b/attachment.html From M.Mirsadeghi at tue.nl Wed Sep 19 14:42:52 2007 From: M.Mirsadeghi at tue.nl (Mirsadeghi, M.) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 15:42:52 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] {spam?} A difference in the results Message-ID: This is a message from the University of Strathclyde email system. Please read this message in its entirety before responding. AOL USERS PLEASE NOTE: if you are receiving this via AOL because you have set up a forwarding for your Strathclyde email, then please do not use the "Report Spam" feature. It does no good for messages forwarded from Strathclyde, and may cause all email from Strathclyde to AOL to be rejected, including mail forwarded for you. The system believes that a message sent to you: From: m.mirsadeghi at tue.nl Subject: A difference in the results Message-Id: 1IXzpq-000E3j-3H is Unsolicited Bulk Email (typically known as "spam"), based on the fact that a total score calculated from various characteristics of the message is greater than a threshold value. The original message that triggered this response has been attached to this message. (If you are using Eudora and cannot view it, then please upgrade.) Unless you are sure that this message is incorrectly thought to be spam, you are advised to delete this message without opening the attachments. Opening spam messages may allow the spammer to verify your email address resulting in more spam being sent to you. Occasionally, a legitimate message may be marked as spam. If you are getting similar messages (for example, from a mailing list) repeatedly marked as spam, and this is an example of one of them, you may forward THIS ENTIRE MESSAGE to us as detailed below. If it appears to be a one-off occurrence, then please don't forward it. Messages can be wrongly marked for all sorts of reasons largely outwith our control. When forwarding messages for us to investigate, you MUST include the full Internet headers of THIS warning message. We cannot fully investigate without them, and will generally ignore submissions that do not include this information. Reports without the full Internet headers will generally be ignored. You may need to consult the documentation for your email client to find out how to include the full Internet headers; this web page may be of some help: http://oit.nd.edu/email/fullheaders.shtml Any messages you wish us to investigate should be forwarded to email-security at strath.ac.uk (note, NOT security at strath.ac.uk - that is the incorrect address). THIS whole message, including attachments and full Internet headers, must be forwarded. Please include information explaining why you think this should not be classed as spam. Mailing lists, often operated on behalf of commercial companies, appear to be the most common source of 'false positive' (incorrect match as spam). We may be able to make modifications to the system so that particular classes of message do not get marked in this way. You may direct any queries or comments to . http://www.its.strath.ac.uk/email/ube/ pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------- 1.0 EXTRA_MPART_TYPE Header has extraneous Content-type:...type= entry 0.2 HTML_IMAGE_RATIO_04 BODY: HTML has a low ratio of text to image area 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 1.0 LOCAL_INLINE_IMAGE RAW: Inline (embedded) Images, rather than attachments 4.0 FUZZY_OCR BODY: (6.2 triggered, 5.0 required) -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "Mirsadeghi, M." Subject: A difference in the results Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 15:42:52 +0200 Size: 45703 Url: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070919/0c8c297b/attachment-0001.mht From M.Mirsadeghi at tue.nl Thu Sep 20 14:49:55 2007 From: M.Mirsadeghi at tue.nl (Mirsadeghi, M.) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 15:49:55 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] A difference in the result Message-ID: Dear All, I am studying a theoretical problem using ESP-r. My model comprises of two zones: target zone and a bounding zone and the common surface between the zones is called "le". I have run two simulations: The first one is using free floating control. In Fig.1 (the attached file) the outside surface temperature of "le" for the target zone and the inside surface temperature of "le" for the bounding zone is plotted which the two curves are the same. In the second simulation I have assigned a specific temperature profile (by means of temporal file in model context) to "le" as a control file for the bounding zone and plot its surface temperature like above by two different ways. (Inside surface of bounding zone and outside surface of the target zone). In this case there is a difference between the curves. Now my question is that since the surface temperature node is fixed in the matrix why we have this discrepancy between the curves in Fig.2 ? And also which of these tow much this curve has affected the zone air dry bulb of the target zone? Many thanks, Mohammad Mirsadeghi -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070920/64046b9e/attachment-0001.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Fig.2.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 15010 bytes Desc: Fig.2.JPG Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070920/64046b9e/attachment-0002.jpe -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Fig.1.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 14977 bytes Desc: Fig.1.JPG Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070920/64046b9e/attachment-0003.jpe From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Thu Sep 20 15:04:31 2007 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand (clcv10)) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 15:04:31 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] ESP-r Introductory course in Glasgow 2-3 October Message-ID: <78105845-7FA5-4145-AEA1-FB55845946A1@esru.strath.ac.uk> The next Introductory ESP-r training course is scheduled for October 2nd and 3rd. Details on our website under training. SESG members can attend the course at no charge. For others the cost of the course is 340 UK Pounds. Those who have recently joined the ESRU development community - an introductory workshop is a very good way to explore the relationships between the various modules of the ESP-r suite and how they might be impacted by future software developments. For those of you who are old-hands at ESP-r you can use an introductory course to hone your strategies to plan and build models that work the first time. For those of you who are in charge of checking other peoples models this workshop will give you plenty of tips for zeroing in on inconsistencies in models. If you are intrested please contact Paul Strachan to register your interest. Regards ESRU From lswan at dal.ca Thu Sep 20 23:07:04 2007 From: lswan at dal.ca (Lukas Swan (Dal)) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 19:07:04 -0300 Subject: [esp-r] Updating or changing the 'climatelist' from asciii or binany climate data Message-ID: <015c01c7fbd2$9721b0e0$6a56ad81@DHSE4> There are a few forms of Canadian climate data ready for ESP-r listed on this site: http://www.sbc.nrcan.gc.ca/software_and_tools/hot3000_overview_e.asp#downloa d However, it seems difficult to import the entire set into the 'climatelist' within the directory structure for consistent use. I am simulating Canadian housing in different regions and would like to create a use a 'climatelist' consisting only of the climates at the above site. Does anyone have information on how to accomplish this? Thanks Lukas Swan Dalhousie University Halifax, Nova Scotia -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070920/81c4f441/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Fri Sep 21 07:13:48 2007 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand (clcv10)) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 07:13:48 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Updating or changing the 'climatelist' from asciii or binany climate data In-Reply-To: <015c01c7fbd2$9721b0e0$6a56ad81@DHSE4> References: <015c01c7fbd2$9721b0e0$6a56ad81@DHSE4> Message-ID: <0BCEF7ED-16E6-4A84-B835-8040A13C860A@esru.strath.ac.uk> A recent question about the list of climate files that can be selected within prj and clm modules of esp-r.... Both clm and prj scan a file called 'climatelist' which is held in the climate folder of the esp-r installation. This is an ASCII file which uses a standard format which can be cut and pasted by users for their own purposes. The file includes a number key words *item - marks the start of the climate meta-data *name - this is what is displayed in the menu *aide - further notes about the climate file *dbfile - the name of the climate file (including path) *avail - a toggle ONLINE or OFFLINE *winter_s *spring_s *summer_s the day and month for season start and end *winter_t *spring_t *summer_t the day and month for typical week in season *help_start text which is useful *help_end The clm module is able to create the text blocks which form entries to the climatelist file. To do this is asks the user for opinions as to the duration of the seasons of the year and then does a systematic scan of an existing climate file to determine the best-fit week for each season of the year. Once the text block for a new climate is created the user can use a text editor to paste the data into the climatelist file. Such meta-data is used by other parts of esp-r. The process is further described in the ESP-r cookbook. And the process does take several steps and requires the use of a text editor - so there is plenty of scope for improvement. -ESRU From Sabine.Hoffmann at bauing.uni-weimar.de Thu Sep 27 07:34:21 2007 From: Sabine.Hoffmann at bauing.uni-weimar.de (Sabine Hoffmann) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 08:34:21 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] humidity production in greenhouse Message-ID: <46FB4EED.9050503@bauing.uni-weimar.de> Dear all, I want to simulate a greenhouse (historical orangery) and have to consider the humidity production of plants. Is it possible to give humidity produced by the plants in [kg/s] as input to the simulation? Best, Sabine From oliver.bucks at club-internet.fr Thu Sep 27 09:32:08 2007 From: oliver.bucks at club-internet.fr (Oliver Bucks) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 10:32:08 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Swimming Pool References: <001701c7fa94$a4673700$8e00a8c0@olli> Message-ID: <000a01c800e0$e4c15950$8e00a8c0@olli> Dear Hugo, I have 'dived' back into swimming pool modeling. The introduction of evaporative surfaces into a model is done in the following manner. If any other users have additional information, I would be very happy to hear it....... 1) Once the model is up and running (simulated without an evaporative surface and without warning errors) open the "active materials" menu. Browse/edit/simulate -> Composition -> active materials. Create a special component file. -> Add/delete item ->accept the special materials database filename provided (/usr/esru/esp-r/databases/mscomp.db1) -> click on "phase change materials" - (nb. I have version 10.12 and nothing exists under the "evaporative surfaces menu) and here you can select "evaporating surfaces" -> select "evaporative_surf" -> give it a name -> enter the calculation mode ( up till now, I generally accept the default value (1). I have not seen any differences in zone resultant temperatures when entering 2 (or 3) as the calculation mode.I have tried to understand the code, but cannot find out what the different calculation modes are) -> Select zone, surface, surface layer and node which will become evaporative (higher node number = closer to the 'inside' face). I have had many, many horrible results : - no temperatures, - temperatures below absolute 0 (a calculated, steady -2.1 billion ?C ), - temparatues above 330?C and below -15?C either side of a shared evaporative surface, - simulations not starting - warning messages : "MZVAPC : for zone.....the computed relative humidity of........has been reset to zero" "Psat01 : Small saturation vapour pressure" - simulation starting but cutting out halfway through a week... The thickness of the layer in which the evaporative surface is implanted seems very important. The surface has to be implanted on an exterior surface (obviously), either 'inside' face or 'other' face. You can also change the convection coefficient of your surface Browse/edit/simulate -> composition -> convection calculations. You may either choose to allocate a certain calculation type per interior surface or to force the convection coefficient on a surface. I have previously used values from "Energy Simulation in Building Design", J. A. Clarke 2nd edition, table 7.20, pg 261. Wishing you luck, and hoping that other users have more experience than myself, Olli Bucks ps. a note in the code does point out that the evaporative surface module is not perfect, and has only been "roughly verified". ----- Original Message ----- From: Hugo Lacerda To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 4:43 PM Subject: [esp-r] Swimming Pool Dear all, I have a Version 11.3 of the ESP-r installed on Fedora Core 6 operating system. I need to include indoor swimming pool in my model. After define the "evaporative surface" in the "zone controls - period data" sub-menu and a evaporative surface in "special components" I would like to now how to link them and how insert the swimming pool in the model and define the parameters. How to proceed? Thank you very much! Best regards, Hugo Lacerda -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20070927/3ce2043e/attachment.html From AFerguso at NRCan.gc.ca Fri Sep 28 19:29:54 2007 From: AFerguso at NRCan.gc.ca (Ferguson, Alex) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 14:29:54 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] ESP-r training course: Montreal, Quebec Message-ID: (Apologies for cross postings) ESP-r TRAINING SESSION Concordia University, Montreal November 21-23, 2007 In conjunction with the NSERC Solar Buildings Research Network, Natural Resources Canada is offering a free ESP-r training session at Concordia University in Montreal. The session will include a one-day introductory course, as well as four half-day advanced modules that focus on modelling solar energy systems in ESP-r. REGISTRATION To register, please email Lyne Dee (lynedee at solarbuildings.ca) NO LATER THAN OCTOBER 5th. Also indicate which modules you wish to attend. EQUIPMENT Please bring your own laptop; the necessary software will be provided. A limited number of spare computers will also be available at the course. If you require one, please inform Lyne Dee when registering. INTRODUCTORY COURSE November 22, 9:00am -- 4:00 pm The introductory course is intended for users new to ESP-r. Over this one-day session, students will learn basic ESP-r concepts, including model creation, simulation and results analysis. Topics include: * Defining geometry * Creating opaque envelope components * Creating windows * Applying boundary conditions * Imposing air flows and internal gains * Modelling plant and controls ideally * Performing simulations * Analyzing results * Adding an air-flow network ADVANCED ESP-r MODULES November 22-23. Four half-day advanced modules are being offered. Completion of an introductory ESP-r course is a recommended prerequisite for these modules. Plant modelling in ESP-r November 22, 8:00--11:30am ------------------------------------- This half-day session will introduce ESP-r's advanced mechanical plant modelling environment. During this session, students will construct a plant network and associated controls for a solar hot water heating system in a Canadian residence. Electrical network modelling in ESP-r November 22, 1:00--4:30pm ------------------------------------- This half-day session will introduce ESP-r's power-flow modelling environment. During this session, students will construct a PV network with grid connection and electrical storage. Students will also couple plant component models such as pumps and fans to the electrical network; for this reason the "Plant modelling in ESP-r" module is a suggested prerequisite. Working with ESP-r source code November 23, 8:00--11:30am ------------------------------------- This half-day session will introduce ESP-r development practices. Students will learn how to use the Subversion version control system to access ESP-r source code, manage their modifications and contribute their changes to the community. Recommended development practices will be discussed, and starting-points for creating new ESP-r models and capabilities identified. Using TRNSYS components with ESP-r November 23, 1:00--4:30pm ------------------------------------- During this half-day session, students will learn how to couple TRNSYS plant component models to ESP-r. The "Working with ESP-r source code" module is a suggested prerequisite. From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Wed Oct 3 12:04:14 2007 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 12:04:14 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: humidity production in greenhouse References: <46FB4EED.9050503@bauing.uni-weimar.de> Message-ID: A recent question: ::I want to simulate a greenhouse (historical orangery) and have to ::consider the humidity production of plants. Is it possible to give ::humidity produced by the plants in [kg/s] as input to the simulation? Currently the approach to take is to translate kg/s of humidity into an equivalent latent Watts and include this in the zone operations file as a casual gain schedule. It would be possible to alter the interface to allow a choice of user inputs (e.g. it would transate g/s into equivalent latent watts for you). Probably the interface would use g/s rather than kg/s because the latter would tend to be a very small number. -ESRU From cvrhasd at tx.technion.ac.il Fri Oct 5 08:08:53 2007 From: cvrhasd at tx.technion.ac.il (S. Hassid) Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 09:08:53 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Fw: Solar Building in Athens Message-ID: <00a201c8071e$96be5b10$c1804484@HasidRabin627> ----- There was a report yesterday in BBC World TV on a solar building in Athens - whose air conditioning system uses the earth as an energy sink and solar energy to cool the water - and it is claimed that the AC system costs 30 % more than conventional AC and the investment is cover after 6 years of operation. It contained an interview with the designer of teh system Manoudakis (I am not sure I got the name right). Unfortunately I cannot trace either the BBC World report or the building on the web. Can anybody help me ? Thanks S. Hassid -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20071005/586c1349/attachment.html From cvrhasd at tx.technion.ac.il Sun Oct 7 13:26:18 2007 From: cvrhasd at tx.technion.ac.il (S. Hassid) Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2007 14:26:18 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Fw: Solar Building in Athens References: <00a201c8071e$96be5b10$c1804484@HasidRabin627> Message-ID: <01a101c808dd$433c9ea0$c1804484@HasidRabin627> sorry - since then I was able to trace the BBC report. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7027693.stm Athens gets landmark eco building The mythical figure of Prometheus, giver of fire, adorns the building A Greek firm has unveiled a hi-tech office block that relies on solar power for heating and cooling. The project, in a suburb of Athens, seeks to set an example in a country with a poor record in the use of renewable energy. Co-designer Nikos Manioudakis claims the five-storey block is Europe's most energy-efficient building. Greece enjoys bright sunshine for most of the year, but solar power is often used just for heating water. Most energy consumption in Greek houses and apartments comes from air conditioning during the long, hot summers, the BBC's Malcolm Brabant reports from Athens. ECO BLOCK In-wall and in-floor heating system Underwater tanks help cool water Building cooled to 18C in summer The new Athens block captures the power of the sun and uses it primarily to cool down the building. The block, in the seafront suburb of Palaio Faliro, is owned by solar energy company Sol Energy Hellas. The building frontage has an image of Prometheus, the Titan of Greek mythology, who stole fire from the gods and gave it to man. Water passes through a complicated network of pipes leading to underground tanks, where the constant natural temperature is 18C. This cool water is used instead of air conditioning to make the building bearable during heatwaves. "In the summer when we have an outside temperature of 35 or 40 degrees, we have an inside temperature of 18 degrees," said Mr Manioudakis. "We hope we will set an example for other developers and designers, engineers," he said. "We're open for anyone who wishes to learn from this." Greek power stations are among the dirtiest in Europe In cold weather, hot water stored at the end of the summer is used to heat the block. The building also generates some electricity, but it has to be connected to the national grid for lighting and to power the pumps. The computer-controlled installations are 30% more expensive than standard heating and cooling equipment. But the designers say savings in energy consumption mean the investment can be recouped within six years. The designers hope that the "energy autonomous" building will make an important contribution to energy-saving research. Greek power stations are among the dirtiest in Europe, our correspondent says. The Aristotle University of Thessaloniki and Greece's National Centre of Science Research have taken part the project. ----- Original Message ----- From: S. Hassid To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Sent: Friday, October 05, 2007 9:08 AM Subject: [esp-r] Fw: Solar Building in Athens ----- There was a report yesterday in BBC World TV on a solar building in Athens - whose air conditioning system uses the earth as an energy sink and solar energy to cool the water - and it is claimed that the AC system costs 30 % more than conventional AC and the investment is cover after 6 years of operation. It contained an interview with the designer of teh system Manoudakis (I am not sure I got the name right). Unfortunately I cannot trace either the BBC World report or the building on the web. Can anybody help me ? Thanks S. Hassid ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20071007/1e053f00/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 43 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20071007/1e053f00/attachment.gif From Gunter.Pueltz at arcor.de Tue Oct 9 20:03:41 2007 From: Gunter.Pueltz at arcor.de (Gunter Pueltz) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 21:03:41 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] effects of weather datasets on the results of thermal simulations Message-ID: Dear Timothy, we have heard that you are an expert about weather effect like urban heat isles and climate change. We also have done a simple comparison of different weather datasets and we have found that the effect of the weather dominates the results of overheating hours in summer (see http://129.187.44.165/index.php/EbeneTechniken-Wetterdaten/en). Please take a look on our Simupedia and let us know your experience and opinion about this topic. Also your comments or further statements are welcome. Best regards, Gunter P?ltz (IBPSA-Germany) From Denis.Bourgeois at arc.ulaval.ca Sat Oct 13 12:03:56 2007 From: Denis.Bourgeois at arc.ulaval.ca (Denis J. Bourgeois) Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 07:03:56 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] eSim 2008 - Call for software demos Message-ID: (apologies for cross-postings) Call for software demos - eSim 2008 21-22 May 2008 Qu?bec City, Canada www.esim.ca The bi-annual conference of IBPSA-Canada will be held in Qu?bec City, Canada on May 21 and 22, 2008 (pre-conference workshops May 20, 2008). The event will be hosted by l'?cole d'architecture de l'Universit? Laval, in collaboration with the National Research Council Canada. Software companies and individuals are invited to take part in special software demos sessions during the conference. Much like technical presentations, the software demos sessions will consist of presentations in front of an audience. However, these presentations will not be peer-reviewed and therefore not included in the conference proceedings - although the submission of a technical paper on the software that meets one of the conference themes is encouraged! To be eligible for a presentation during the software demo sessions, the software must be a commercial product or be freely available (on a web site for example). Furthermore, the presenter must be a registered participant. Please note that the scientific committee has the right to limit the number of software tools being presented. The deadline to submit a software is November 27, 2007. To submit your software, just click on the "Software Demo Submission" tab on www.esim.ca Please also be reminded that the deadline for submitting a paper abstract is October 22 - less than 10 days from now! Conference Chair: Dr. Denis Bourgeois denis.bourgeois at arc.ulaval.ca Chair of the Scientific Committee: Dr. Christoph Reinhart christoph.reinhart at nrc-cnrc.gc.ca -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20071013/f4e8353f/attachment.html From ali.fallahi at gmail.com Mon Oct 15 03:38:59 2007 From: ali.fallahi at gmail.com (Ali fallahi) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 22:38:59 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] Zone Conrol Model Message-ID: <443e3ca80710141938r267a44f4mc388b7d50c4c3dc3@mail.gmail.com> Dear All, I have a question regarding the control model in ESP-r. I wanted to assign surface temperatures changing in a fixed frequency ( 24 surface temperatures per day) to external surfaces of 18 zones. I did this in two ways but I couldn't succeed. 1- I used Shorttime step (temporal) model and SETPTTT to define the surface temperature profile for one day and timestep of one. Then I associated this index to a control loop. After simulation I just got zero surface temperature!! As I understood SETPTTT uses control law 11 to match sensed/recorded temperature. I changed heating and cooling capacity and sensor's parameter , but again i got the same zero surface temperature. 2- I tried to assign the surface temperatures using zone control model. However, with the current version 11.3 it's possible just to have 8 control periods for one control loop. Therefore, I changed the code (MBCDP in building.h from 8 to 100). I could include all my temperature profile this way (24 periods per loop and more than 18 contol loops) and I used control law 1; however, results show that ESP-r just considers the first 12 control loops and doesn't take into account the other 6 control loops. Thus, I could assign the surface temperatures just to 12 zones. I would be pleased if someone could advise me how to assign 24 surface temperatures ( changing in a fixed frequency ) to 18 external surfaces. Best Regards, Ali Fallahi From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Mon Oct 15 10:29:11 2007 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 10:29:11 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Zone Conrol Model References: <443e3ca80710141938r267a44f4mc388b7d50c4c3dc3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: A recent question about setting surface temperatures: below are a series of questions about how to fix the exterior surface temperature within a model. The core issue is that the temperature of a surface facing the outside in ESP-r (and most other simulation tools) is the <> of the various flux exchanges at the outside face. The 1st attempt used timestep data - but that data is used for controlling the zone air temperature to a specified point not for forcing the outside face temperatures to a fixed value. It might be that the documentation on this type of temporal entity is not as clear as it could be. The 2nd attempt is clever, however it would probably fail even if there were no issue with the number of zones. The details of one or two of the control loops would be necessary to confirm the mode of failure. Essentially a zone control allows you to sense the temperature at a surface and inject or extract flux near the outside face of the surface - but one would require a separate loop for each surface in the zone and ESP-r would not let you have more than one zone control loop associated with each zone. There is no existing ideal zone control that could control the temperature of multiple surfaces. A point of strategy - if you are exploring a control that is experimental and/or new to you confirm that it works first on a shoe-box model. The second point of strategy is to consider the reason for fixing the outside surface temperatures - 18 zones seems much larger than one would typically find in an emperical test chamber (where it is occassionally necessary to fix boundary conditions). There are techniques which can be used to encourage the outside surface temperature to be close to a known temperature, but such techniques have not been used in an 18 zone model. To plan an appropriate strategy the community is going to need to know more about what it is that you are trying to represent. -ESRU -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk on behalf of Ali fallahi Sent: Mon 10/15/2007 3:38 AM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Zone Conrol Model Dear All, I have a question regarding the control model in ESP-r. I wanted to assign surface temperatures changing in a fixed frequency ( 24 surface temperatures per day) to external surfaces of 18 zones. I did this in two ways but I couldn't succeed. 1- I used Shorttime step (temporal) model and SETPTTT to define the surface temperature profile for one day and timestep of one. Then I associated this index to a control loop. After simulation I just got zero surface temperature!! As I understood SETPTTT uses control law 11 to match sensed/recorded temperature. I changed heating and cooling capacity and sensor's parameter , but again i got the same zero surface temperature. 2- I tried to assign the surface temperatures using zone control model. However, with the current version 11.3 it's possible just to have 8 control periods for one control loop. Therefore, I changed the code (MBCDP in building.h from 8 to 100). I could include all my temperature profile this way (24 periods per loop and more than 18 contol loops) and I used control law 1; however, results show that ESP-r just considers the first 12 control loops and doesn't take into account the other 6 control loops. Thus, I could assign the surface temperatures just to 12 zones. I would be pleased if someone could advise me how to assign 24 surface temperatures ( changing in a fixed frequency ) to 18 external surfaces. Best Regards, Ali Fallahi _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From ali.fallahi at gmail.com Tue Oct 16 13:12:59 2007 From: ali.fallahi at gmail.com (Ali fallahi) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 08:12:59 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] Re: zone control model Message-ID: <443e3ca80710160512g2f8de71fi229cfbbfaa75d3a7@mail.gmail.com> Hi, Regarding my question about zone control model in ESP-r, here are some explanations about my model. Whatever I am trying to represent with ESP-r is a comparison of modeling of ventilated facade with results of measurement campaign. In my modeling, ventilated facade is composed of one layer of non-ventilated double pane (next to ambient temperature), then a layer of ventilated glazing with a venetian blind inside ( Fig.1 in attached file). Ventilated facade has been divided vertically to 9 zones. Since here my aim is to study the phenomena happening inside ventilated facade the measured boundary conditions ( outdoor and indoor) are given as input for modeling. You were right that 18 zones seem much larger than one would typically find in an empirical test chamber. However, in my modeling there is a vertical temperature gradient produced by rising air inside the ventilated facade and I divided the ventilated facade to small zones to get closer to 2D heat transfer on glazing for higher accuracy. I have attached control and temporal file of my model. The temporal file gives zero temperature and control file is able to control maximum 12 zones (after modification of MBCDP in building.h from 8 to 100) . Even if temporal file is able just to control air point temperature, I should not get zero temperature for the whole simulation period. I would be pleased if you could let me know your advice on my case to control more than 12 surface temperatures. Best Regards, Ali Fallahi -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Model.zip Type: application/zip Size: 76692 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20071016/5b354206/attachment-0001.zip From georgios at esru.strath.ac.uk Tue Oct 16 13:55:21 2007 From: georgios at esru.strath.ac.uk (Georgios Kokogiannakis) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 13:55:21 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: zone control model In-Reply-To: <443e3ca80710160512g2f8de71fi229cfbbfaa75d3a7@mail.gmail.com> References: <443e3ca80710160512g2f8de71fi229cfbbfaa75d3a7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200710161355.21717.georgios@esru.strath.ac.uk> Hi Ali, for your tdf data you will need: (start-up period) + (simulation timesteps) + (1*24 number of data in order to make it work. I see that you only have 24 data in your file. You probably get few warnings during your simulation runs with the file that you are using. For example, if you want to simulate 4 days and you have 2 start-up days, you need: 4*24+2*24+1*24=168 data in your file. The data you are using for the extra do not matter but they need to be there. Also, just keep in mind that tdf can only treat 1 timestep per hour at the moment but there is work in progress to improve this. Hope this helps. Georgios On Tuesday 16 October 2007 13:12, Ali fallahi wrote: > Hi, > > Regarding my question about zone control model in ESP-r, here are some > explanations about my model. Whatever I am trying to represent with > ESP-r is a comparison of modeling of ventilated facade with results of > measurement campaign. In my modeling, ventilated facade is composed of > one layer of non-ventilated double pane (next to ambient temperature), > then a layer of ventilated glazing with a venetian blind inside ( > Fig.1 in attached file). Ventilated facade has been divided vertically > to 9 zones. Since here my aim is to study the phenomena happening > inside ventilated facade the measured boundary conditions ( outdoor > and indoor) are given as input for modeling. You were right that 18 > zones seem much larger than one would typically find in an empirical > test chamber. However, in my modeling there is a vertical temperature > gradient produced by rising air inside the ventilated facade and I > divided the ventilated facade to small zones to get closer to 2D heat > transfer on glazing for higher accuracy. I have attached control and > temporal file of my model. The temporal file gives zero temperature > and control file is able to control maximum 12 zones (after > modification of MBCDP in building.h from 8 to 100) . Even if temporal > file is able just to control air point temperature, I should not get > zero temperature for the whole simulation period. I would be pleased > if you could let me know your advice on my case to control more than > 12 surface temperatures. > > Best Regards, > Ali Fallahi From georgios at esru.strath.ac.uk Tue Oct 16 14:33:59 2007 From: georgios at esru.strath.ac.uk (Georgios Kokogiannakis) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 14:33:59 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: zone control model In-Reply-To: <200710161355.21717.georgios@esru.strath.ac.uk> References: <443e3ca80710160512g2f8de71fi229cfbbfaa75d3a7@mail.gmail.com> <200710161355.21717.georgios@esru.strath.ac.uk> Message-ID: <200710161434.00050.georgios@esru.strath.ac.uk> Hi Ali, A small correction from Dr. Paul Strachan with regards to the previous email: tdf can deal with sub-hour data but the user should make sure that the simulation timestep corresponds to the time interval in the tdf file. Regards, Georgios On Tuesday 16 October 2007 13:55, Georgios Kokogiannakis wrote: > Hi Ali, > > for your tdf data you will need: (start-up period) + (simulation timesteps) > + (1*24 number of data in order to make it work. I see that you only have > 24 data in your file. You probably get few warnings during your simulation > runs with the file that you are using. > > For example, if you want to simulate 4 days and you have 2 start-up days, > you need: 4*24+2*24+1*24=168 data in your file. The data you are using for > the extra do not matter but they need to be there. > > Also, just keep in mind that tdf can only treat 1 timestep per hour at the > moment but there is work in progress to improve this. > > Hope this helps. > > Georgios > > On Tuesday 16 October 2007 13:12, Ali fallahi wrote: > > Hi, > > > > Regarding my question about zone control model in ESP-r, here are some > > explanations about my model. Whatever I am trying to represent with > > ESP-r is a comparison of modeling of ventilated facade with results of > > measurement campaign. In my modeling, ventilated facade is composed of > > one layer of non-ventilated double pane (next to ambient temperature), > > then a layer of ventilated glazing with a venetian blind inside ( > > Fig.1 in attached file). Ventilated facade has been divided vertically > > to 9 zones. Since here my aim is to study the phenomena happening > > inside ventilated facade the measured boundary conditions ( outdoor > > and indoor) are given as input for modeling. You were right that 18 > > zones seem much larger than one would typically find in an empirical > > test chamber. However, in my modeling there is a vertical temperature > > gradient produced by rising air inside the ventilated facade and I > > divided the ventilated facade to small zones to get closer to 2D heat > > transfer on glazing for higher accuracy. I have attached control and > > temporal file of my model. The temporal file gives zero temperature > > and control file is able to control maximum 12 zones (after > > modification of MBCDP in building.h from 8 to 100) . Even if temporal > > file is able just to control air point temperature, I should not get > > zero temperature for the whole simulation period. I would be pleased > > if you could let me know your advice on my case to control more than > > 12 surface temperatures. > > > > Best Regards, > > Ali Fallahi > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From qzhzhu at 163.com Sun Oct 21 02:32:33 2007 From: qzhzhu at 163.com (=?GB2312?B?ILPw1tDW+SAgICBEci4gUWl1?=) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 09:32:33 +0800 Subject: [esp-r] problems in using ESP-r-native-windows-version Message-ID: <471AAC2D.1FE4D3.13980@m12-11.163.com> Dear Mr/Ms I'm using the ESP-r-native-Windows-version. System remind me "Can't save the model in browse mode, you must own the model". but what should I do if I want to own the model? Thank you for your help. Warm regards, Qiu From qzhzhu at 163.com Sun Oct 21 02:48:30 2007 From: qzhzhu at 163.com (=?GB2312?B?ILPw1tDW+SAgICBEci4gUWl1?=) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 09:48:30 +0800 Subject: [esp-r] Demand of the ESP-r-windows-native for the Windows XP? Message-ID: <471AAFE9.1FE61A.13980@m12-11.163.com> Dear Mr/Ms I'm using the ESP-r-native-Windows-version. my computer's operation System is "windows XP", Do I have to add somthing to the "windows XP" before or after I install the ESP-r-native-Windows? Untill now I have found nothing is not ok but remindness"Can't save the model in browse mode, you must own the model" Thank you for your help. Warm regards, Qiu From Bernhard.Schweighofer at tugraz.at Wed Oct 24 06:12:57 2007 From: Bernhard.Schweighofer at tugraz.at (Bernhard Schweighofer) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 07:12:57 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Demand of the ESP-r-windows-native for the Windows XP? In-Reply-To: <471AAFE9.1FE61A.13980@m12-11.163.com> References: <471AAFE9.1FE61A.13980@m12-11.163.com> Message-ID: <471ED459.1080007@tugraz.at> Dr. Qiu wrote: > ... but remindness"Can't save the model in browse mode, you must own the model" When opening (an exemplar) model you have the choice between 'browse' and 'own it' - use 'own it'. The data will be copied to a working directory. Then you can modify and save the model. At least, this is what i do under Linux... regards Bernhard From Martin.Bartak at fs.cvut.cz Wed Oct 24 17:19:54 2007 From: Martin.Bartak at fs.cvut.cz (Martin Bartak) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 18:19:54 +0200 Subject: [esp-r] tent performance simulation Message-ID: <471F8CCA.20481.20137E9@bartak.fsinet.fsid.cvut.cz> Hello all, Within a research project which can be shortly described as "HVAC for a military field hospital" I have to predict environment and cooling/heating loads in a special tent (some of the health care units are placed in tents). Does anybody have experience in modelling and simulation of thermal environment in a tent? The topic involves shading by textile screens, double-skin textile 'walls' (2 very thin layers ~1mm with air gap ~250 mm), infiltration through textile fabric, etc. Any information or reference to published papers would be very much appreciated. Regards, Martin ======================================= Martin Bartak Czech Technical University in Prague Dept. of Environmental Engineering U-12116, Technicka 4 166 07 Praha 6, Czech Republic phone: +420-22435-2486 fax: +420-22435-5606 From qzhzhu at 163.com Mon Oct 29 08:53:35 2007 From: qzhzhu at 163.com (=?gb2312?B?ILPw1tDW+SAgICBEci4gUWl1?=) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 16:53:35 +0800 Subject: [esp-r] Re: climate data Message-ID: <47259F92.237629.01711@m12-13.163.com> Hi,all, Hi,Dear Georgios Kokogiannakis I can get the ".....IWEC.epw" with the guide of ESP-r cookbook(Page.35) ,couild you tell me how to specify this climate data file as my weather data of the project? I did many times but no use, alway Birmingham climate. thanks Qiu From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Mon Oct 29 10:59:10 2007 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand (clcv10)) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 10:59:10 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: climate data In-Reply-To: <47259F92.237629.01711@m12-13.163.com> References: <47259F92.237629.01711@m12-13.163.com> Message-ID: <44F47B0E-866F-4BC6-BDE4-98A3535C0A31@esru.strath.ac.uk> A recent question about selecting climate data from a list... > > I can get the ".....IWEC.epw" with the guide of ESP-r cookbook(Page. > 35) > ,couild you tell me how to specify this climate data file as my > weather data of the project? I did many times but no use, alway > Birmingham climate. > Both the modules clm and prj scan a file called 'climatelist' which is located in the climate folder where ESP-r has been installed. Any climate file names that are held in the climatelist file are presented to the user. To include additional climate files the text of the climatelist file needs to be edited and there are facilities within the clm module to create the text for such new entries. The next version of ESP-r will make it somewhat easier to do these tasks and reduces the number of steps involved. Some who find the instructions within the ESP-r cookbook sufficient for adding new entries into the climatelist file and others do not. Perhaps it needs to be re-written. Some work is progressing. In the last couple of weeks 32 new locations in China have been processed and a new China-specific set of files created. Anyone interested can contact Jon Hand for directions on how to download this information. Over time we hope to make additional climate sets for other countries available as a separate download. -ESRU From qzhzhu at 163.com Mon Oct 29 13:54:23 2007 From: qzhzhu at 163.com (=?gb2312?B?ILPw1tDW+SAgICBEci4gUWl1?=) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 21:54:23 +0800 Subject: [esp-r] what test editor is the best to edit "climatelist" file? Message-ID: <4725E613.24B354.18038@m12-16.163.com> Hi, All, what test editor is the best to edit "climatelist" file? I use "notepad" open the "climatelist" file, it is hard to read and edit. any answer is helpful. thanks Qiu From Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch Mon Oct 29 13:58:42 2007 From: Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch (Geissler Achim) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 14:58:42 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: what test editor is the best to edit "climatelist" file? References: <4725E613.24B354.18038@m12-16.163.com> Message-ID: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C22FEBE@sgartgum1.gart.intra> ... depending on what platform you edit / use the file, I have found "EditPad Lite" quite useful, as it has no problems with the various "end of line" codings for different platforms ... quite handy if you edit under windows and use the files with cygwin esp-r. Regards, Achim > -----Original Message----- > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r- > bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of ??? Dr. Qiu > Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 2:54 PM > To: esp-r > Subject: [esp-r] what test editor is the best to edit "climatelist" file? > > Hi, All, > > what test editor is the best to edit "climatelist" file? > I use "notepad" open the "climatelist" file, it is hard to read and edit. > any answer is helpful. > thanks > > Qiu > > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Mon Oct 29 14:00:55 2007 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand (clcv10)) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 14:00:55 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: what test editor is the best to edit "climatelist" file? In-Reply-To: <4725E613.24B354.18038@m12-16.163.com> References: <4725E613.24B354.18038@m12-16.163.com> Message-ID: On Native Windows the most common editor to use is Wordpad. Notepad and Word will tend to mangle the text. Some prefer to use a programmers text editor like VIM or nedit. -Jon Hand From cj at cr-jay.ca Mon Oct 29 14:57:27 2007 From: cj at cr-jay.ca (Chris Jones) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 10:57:27 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] Re: what test editor is the best to edit "climatelist" file? In-Reply-To: References: <4725E613.24B354.18038@m12-16.163.com> Message-ID: Ultraedit is a very powerful and flexible text editor for Windows. No mangling here. It is very fast with large text files. http://www.ultraedit.com It contains keyword highlighting, macro programming, very good file compare, etc. At 10:00 2007-10-29, you wrote: >On Native Windows the most common editor to use >is Wordpad. Notepad and Word will tend to mangle >the text. Some prefer to use a programmers text >editor like VIM or nedit. > >-Jon Hand > >_______________________________________________ >esp-r mailing list >esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk >http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r Chris Jones, P.Eng. 14 Oneida Avenue Toronto, ON M5J2E3 Tel. 416 203-7465 Fax. 416 946-1005 From toserra74 at virgilio.it Mon Oct 29 20:42:09 2007 From: toserra74 at virgilio.it (antonio serra) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 21:42:09 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: what test editor is the best to edit "climatelist" file? Message-ID: <472645A1.9090700@virgilio.it> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20071029/6edc2fbb/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Tue Oct 30 09:01:33 2007 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand (clcv10)) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 09:01:33 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Native windows-can't make project copy of dbs? In-Reply-To: <684839805.256511193719668238.JavaMail.coremail@bj163app103.163.com> References: <4725E613.24B354.18038@m12-16.163.com> <684839805.256511193719668238.JavaMail.coremail@bj163app103.163.com> Message-ID: <7CF9A85D-67B8-4EE1-9EFD-2C101FB0897E@esru.strath.ac.uk> A recent question: > when i use the following command, > > Project manager -> database management -> make project copy of > database -> (accept suggested name) > according to the cookbook_execise, it should have > "-> Tiles -> copy material > Select the Concrete Tile (as the source) and a new item will be > added to the end of the list. Select the NEW ITEM" > > but nothing happen. > why? This is a known issue in the Native Windows version of ESP-r which has been corrected and which will be available in the next release which is scheduled for mid-November. The work-around is to do the copy command manually with the operating system e.g. use Windows Explorer to copy the database file from C:\Esru\esp-r\databases\file_name to the dbs folder of the model. Then in the 'database management' menu for the construction file point to the file that you just copied. Also the interface has altered somewhat from what is included in the ESP-r Cookbook. The names of the menus are slightly different and as soon as the next release is out there will be an effort to update the Cookbook. -ESRU From sholafemi28 at yahoo.com Tue Oct 30 14:51:08 2007 From: sholafemi28 at yahoo.com (K.O.F.O) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 07:51:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [esp-r] Feasible research in energy demand supply of buildings Message-ID: <735549.30499.qm@web56512.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi all, What research areas are currently unexplored in the field of modeling energy demand supply by buildings and environmental interactions. Can such areas be explored on a national policy level? Best regards, Kofs __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20071030/a9bd080a/attachment.html From woehrle at umt-ulm.de Tue Oct 30 16:04:51 2007 From: woehrle at umt-ulm.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Heiko_W=F6hrle?=) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 17:04:51 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] logical control: act if a>b Message-ID: <99BE149AB338E342A63612933E70F6CF082BBF@winsbs.umt-ulm.local> Hi everybody, is there a possibility for setting up a control rule like: act if i.e. outdoor temp is lower then room temperature? any hint or workaround is highly appreciated best regards, heiko um+t Umweltmanagement und -technik GmbH Lise-Meitner-Str. 15 89081 Ulm Tel. 0731 / 50 99 55 2 Fax 0731 / 50 99 50 0 Sitz der Gesellschaft: Ulm / HRB 4954 Ulm Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Thomas Hartmann -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20071030/93cd4751/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Tue Oct 30 18:37:52 2007 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand (clcv10)) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 18:37:52 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Feasible research in energy demand supply of buildings In-Reply-To: <735549.30499.qm@web56512.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <735549.30499.qm@web56512.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: A recent question that could have infinite answers.... > What research areas are currently unexplored in the field of > modeling energy demand supply by buildings and environmental > interactions. > There are conferences on Simulation where hundreds of papers are presented, many of them are about new issues and some have been about demand-side management and some about supply-side issues. In many senses simulation is a mature field, but our wish-lists are still quite long. Is it possible to send a more specific question or questions to the list? -Jon Hand From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Wed Oct 31 10:58:23 2007 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand (clcv10)) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 10:58:23 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: logical control: act if a>b In-Reply-To: <99BE149AB338E342A63612933E70F6CF082BBF@winsbs.umt-ulm.local> References: <99BE149AB338E342A63612933E70F6CF082BBF@winsbs.umt-ulm.local> Message-ID: <9F77F8B5-E47D-43F3-9CCF-FFCBCBDF044B@esru.strath.ac.uk> A recent question: is there a possibility for setting up a control rule like: act if i.e. outdoor temp is lower then room temperature? any hint or workaround is highly appreciated There are flow controls that respond to the delta T between two flow nodes. There are also flow controls with multi-sensors so one may create AND or OR logic. On the zone side there are no sensors which work on a delta T. One might approximate a heater control by using an air flow network and a flow controller and a mixing box zone (where heat is injected) to blow heated air into a room based on flow control logic. -ESRU -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20071031/6df6e98b/attachment.html From Philip.Neron at space.gc.ca Thu Nov 1 19:06:23 2007 From: Philip.Neron at space.gc.ca (Philip.Neron at space.gc.ca) Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 15:06:23 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] Building a simple electrical network (PV and batteries) Message-ID: <812767339B31244987E273CE1F578663162234@Excsth03.csa.space.gc.ca> Hello all, My final gold is to charge batteries with a solar panel. For my tests, I have built a simple building; a solar panel and a room (see picture 1). The electrical network includes only 2 nodes linked together, one for the PV and one for the load. All my network are on the 24Vdc. 1) First test: No load, open circuit. At first view, the simulation looks good. The PV generates voltage according with sun intensity (see picture 2). The issue is the PV generates power too (see picture 3). It's not supposed since there is no load (open circuit). More, the generated voltage is at the full charge value of 35V (Vopen = 43.5V). 2) Second test: Add batteries on the load node. Nothing happens. The PV reacts exactly like the first test. More, the load node voltage is zero. I expected the same value than the PV node since they are linked by a wire. 3) Some design details For the PV, I use the crystalline RMS1100 PV include on special component "building integrated-renewable". For the batteries, I use the "Power sonic Batteries" include on "Power Only Component" It will be appreciated to have some help for the design of my electrical network or some documentations. Thank you Philip N?ron <> <> <> Philip N?ron ?tudiant COOP | COOP student Exploration plan?taire | Planetary exploration Sciences spatiales | Space sciences Agence spatiale canadienne | Canadian Space Agency 6767, Route de l'A?roport, Longueuil, QC, Canada, J3Y 8Y9 T?l/Tel : (450) 926-5816 | T?l?c/Fax : (450) 926-4449 Courriel/E-mail :[philip.neron at espace.gc.ca] Site web/Web site : [www.espace.gc.ca] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20071101/9f0c4ace/attachment-0001.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Picture 1.gif Type: image/gif Size: 21368 bytes Desc: Picture 1.gif Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20071101/9f0c4ace/attachment-0003.gif -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Picture 2.gif Type: image/gif Size: 42581 bytes Desc: Picture 2.gif Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20071101/9f0c4ace/attachment-0004.gif -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Picture 3.gif Type: image/gif Size: 26586 bytes Desc: Picture 3.gif Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20071101/9f0c4ace/attachment-0005.gif From AFerguso at NRCan.gc.ca Fri Nov 2 17:48:53 2007 From: AFerguso at NRCan.gc.ca (Ferguson, Alex) Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 13:48:53 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Building a simple electrical network (PV and batteries) In-Reply-To: <812767339B31244987E273CE1F578663162234@Excsth03.csa.space.gc.ca> References: <812767339B31244987E273CE1F578663162234@Excsth03.csa.space.gc.ca> Message-ID: Hi Philip, Can you forward your .enf file (that is, the file in the /nets folder that describes your electric network)? It might help us diagnose your problem - Alex Alex Ferguson Sustainable Buildings and Communities (Housing Group) CANMET Energy Technology Centre Natural Resources Canada P:+1 613 995 3294 F:+1 613 996 9909 Alex.Ferguson at nrcan.gc.ca ________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Philip.Neron at space.gc.ca Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 15:06 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Building a simple electrical network (PV and batteries) Hello all, My final gold is to charge batteries with a solar panel. For my tests, I have built a simple building; a solar panel and a room (see picture 1). The electrical network includes only 2 nodes linked together, one for the PV and one for the load. All my network are on the 24Vdc. 1) First test: No load, open circuit. At first view, the simulation looks good. The PV generates voltage according with sun intensity (see picture 2). The issue is the PV generates power too (see picture 3). It's not supposed since there is no load (open circuit). More, the generated voltage is at the full charge value of 35V (Vopen = 43.5V). 2) Second test: Add batteries on the load node. Nothing happens. The PV reacts exactly like the first test. More, the load node voltage is zero. I expected the same value than the PV node since they are linked by a wire. 3) Some design details For the PV, I use the crystalline RMS1100 PV include on special component "building integrated-renewable". For the batteries, I use the "Power sonic Batteries" include on "Power Only Component" It will be appreciated to have some help for the design of my electrical network or some documentations. Thank you Philip N?ron <> <> <> Philip N?ron ?tudiant COOP | COOP student Exploration plan?taire | Planetary exploration Sciences spatiales | Space sciences Agence spatiale canadienne | Canadian Space Agency 6767, Route de l'A?roport, Longueuil, QC, Canada, J3Y 8Y9 T?l/Tel : (450) 926-5816 | T?l?c/Fax : (450) 926-4449 Courriel/E-mail :[philip.neron at espace.gc.ca] Site web/Web site : [www.espace.gc.ca ] From espr at yahoo.cn Fri Nov 2 17:06:44 2007 From: espr at yahoo.cn (Espr) Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 01:06:44 +0800 (CST) Subject: [esp-r] hi,all users Message-ID: <717292.30809.qm@web92205.mail.cnh.yahoo.com> hi, all users, this is my first email, i'm new, thank you. 008 --------------------------------- ?????????? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20071103/0216383a/attachment.html From esprfans at hotmail.com Sat Nov 3 03:37:31 2007 From: esprfans at hotmail.com (Leepaul) Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 11:37:31 +0800 Subject: [esp-r] HVAC system? Message-ID: hi,all friends, I'm new. it seem ESP-r is not similar to DOEII in dealing with HVAC system of a building, DOEII is simple on this aspects. fans _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live Custom Domain?????????? https://domains.live.com/default.aspx -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20071103/a2aea5db/attachment.html From esprfans at hotmail.com Sat Nov 3 12:16:45 2007 From: esprfans at hotmail.com (Leepaul) Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 20:16:45 +0800 Subject: [esp-r] what doest if mean"your climate file if offline?" Message-ID: Hi,all system remind me "what doest if mean"your climate file if offline?", hoe to deal with? thanks. Leepaul _________________________________________________________________ MSN ???????????????????? http://cn.msn.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20071103/0f15af33/attachment.html From esprfans at hotmail.com Sat Nov 3 12:52:10 2007 From: esprfans at hotmail.com (Leepaul) Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 20:52:10 +0800 Subject: [esp-r] A big BUG window-native version Message-ID: Hi, All, using ESP-r window-native version,when creating a zone with , "CANCEL" buton dos't work, anyway continue to next step, that's funny. Leepaul _________________________________________________________________ ? Live Search ??????? http://www.live.com/?searchOnly=true -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20071103/696ca201/attachment.html From esprfans at hotmail.com Mon Nov 5 05:10:53 2007 From: esprfans at hotmail.com (Leepaul) Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 13:10:53 +0800 Subject: [esp-r] why no response when I press simulation -> integrted simulation->invoke simulation? Message-ID: Hi, all, with windows-native-version, why no response when I press simulation -> integrted simulation->invoke simulation? thank you. _________________________________________________________________ MSN ???????????????????? http://cn.msn.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20071105/77d127dc/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Mon Nov 5 10:35:33 2007 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand (clcv10)) Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 10:35:33 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: HVAC system? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4F7CB692-2073-4713-A4E6-4162E7A9462D@esru.strath.ac.uk> A recent comment: > I'm new. > it seem ESP-r is not similar to DOEII in dealing with HVAC system > of a building, DOEII is simple on this aspects. > ESP-r has a different history from DOE2. Some users would note that there are simple approaches to defining environmental systems controls (e.g. ideal zone controls) as well as the component based HVAC. The latter has a rather daunting learning curve, but if the question you are asking needs component level details and simulation timesteps in the seconds rather than minutes then the component based HVAC might be useful. For a reminder of other differences between ESP-r and other tools look at the US DoE tools directory site: http://www.eere.energy.gov/buldings/tools_directory/pdfs/ comparative_paper.pdf -ESRU -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20071105/11637962/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Mon Nov 5 10:41:01 2007 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand (clcv10)) Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 10:41:01 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: A big BUG window-native version In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <697E0CC1-F354-4D54-B16E-86CF70442260@esru.strath.ac.uk> A recent observation: > Hi, All, > > using ESP-r window-native version,when creating a zone with , > "CANCEL" buton dos't work, anyway continue to next step, that's funny. There are several hundred CANCEL buttons. Some that have not been fully implemented (the dialogue is enabled but the background logic is incomplete). The next release includes about 50 more CANCEL buttons that are functional. When posting such observations please be as specific as possible about the feature or menu or dialogue or action so that we can identify the specific issue in the code. -ESRU -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20071105/5494ea7d/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Mon Nov 5 10:46:45 2007 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand (clcv10)) Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 10:46:45 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: what doest if mean"your climate file if offline?" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: A recent question on climate files. > Hi,all > system remind me "what doest if mean"your climate file if > offline?", hoe to deal with? > thanks. > ESP-r has a text file that it reads called 'climatelist' in the installed climate folder. The items in this file include a tag ONLINE or OFFLINE to signal if the specific climate file is available on the computer. To check this out on a Windows machine look in the folder C:\Esru\esp- r\climate and open the climatelist file in WordPad and identify the name of the climate file of interest. Check if that climate file is actually in the climate folder and if it is make sure the tag in 'climatelist' for that file is edited to ONLINE. After you save 'climatelist' re-open esp-r and see if you can select this climate file. -ESRU -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20071105/ef25c7dd/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Mon Nov 5 10:53:36 2007 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand (clcv10)) Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 10:53:36 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: why no response when I press simulation -> integrted simulation->invoke simulation? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7CF85103-2F55-4179-B869-D849CB5E59A0@esru.strath.ac.uk> A recent question: > with windows-native-version, > why no response when I press simulation -> integrted simulation- > >invoke simulation? > There could a any number of causes for this. The simulator in esp-r is an executable bps.exe and it should be located in C:\Esru\esp-r\bin If it exists - try clicking on it (or try running it from a DOS command line) and see if anything happens. If an application starts up then it could be that the 'path' environment variable is not correctly set and the executable is not being located correctly. If could be that your model has syntax errors that prevent the simulator being started. The description of the problem does not indicate that any warning messages were given prior to 'invoke simulation' To determine if this is a problem with a specific model, select one of the exemplar models (a simple one) and see if you can run a simulation. -ESRU -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20071105/9a56b80c/attachment.html From D.Costola at tue.nl Mon Nov 5 11:22:37 2007 From: D.Costola at tue.nl (Costola, D) Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 12:22:37 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: A big BUG window-native version In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Leepaul, You probably had a dialog box like this picture. My interface is probably a little bit different of yours because mine is partially in Dutch. Try to choose the ?Action: cancel?, and then press the button OK, instead of using the Cancel button. Regards Daniel C?stola TU/e Department of Architecture, Building and Planning Den Dolech 2 - Vertigo 6.16 - P.O Box 513 5600 MB Eindhoven - The Netherlands Phone +31 40 247 5760 Fax +31 40 243 8595 d.costola at tue.nl ________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Leepaul Sent: zaterdag 3 november 2007 13:52 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] A big BUG window-native version Hi, All, using ESP-r window-native version,when creating a zone with , "CANCEL" buton dos't work, anyway continue to next step, that's funny. Leepaul ________________________________ ????? Hotmail???????????????? ????? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20071105/ef86c61f/attachment-0001.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 13187 bytes Desc: image002.jpg Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20071105/ef86c61f/attachment-0001.jpe From nick at esru.strath.ac.uk Mon Nov 5 11:44:07 2007 From: nick at esru.strath.ac.uk (Nicolas Kelly) Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 11:44:07 -0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Building a simple electrical network (PV and batteries) In-Reply-To: References: <812767339B31244987E273CE1F578663162234@Excsth03.csa.space.gc.ca> Message-ID: <47BBFC6D736E714E8B490CEED8C1CCB401B1717A@BE-SCAM2.ds.strath.ac.uk> Hi Philip, Just a few points about what you are trying to do. ESP-r's electric network model is a load-flow type solver, that always needs a grid connection. So in your case 1 it is not possible to have "no-load" as all of the power generated by the PV will be absorbed by the grid connection. As for the second test I'll need to look at your model and then the NRCAN battery code before I can work out what is going on. Mail me your models and I'll get back to you. Regards, Nick Kelly ******************************* Dr Nick Kelly RCUK Academic Fellow Energy Systems Research Unit Institute for Energy and Environment University of Strathclyde 75 Montrose St Glasgow G1 1XJ t: +44(0)141 548 2854 f: +44(0)141 552 5105 e: nick at esru.strath.ac.uk ******************************* -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Ferguson, Alex Sent: 02 November 2007 17:49 To: Philip.Neron at space.gc.ca; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Re: Building a simple electrical network (PV and batteries) Hi Philip, Can you forward your .enf file (that is, the file in the /nets folder that describes your electric network)? It might help us diagnose your problem - Alex Alex Ferguson Sustainable Buildings and Communities (Housing Group) CANMET Energy Technology Centre Natural Resources Canada P:+1 613 995 3294 F:+1 613 996 9909 Alex.Ferguson at nrcan.gc.ca ________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Philip.Neron at space.gc.ca Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 15:06 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Building a simple electrical network (PV and batteries) Hello all, My final gold is to charge batteries with a solar panel. For my tests, I have built a simple building; a solar panel and a room (see picture 1). The electrical network includes only 2 nodes linked together, one for the PV and one for the load. All my network are on the 24Vdc. 1) First test: No load, open circuit. At first view, the simulation looks good. The PV generates voltage according with sun intensity (see picture 2). The issue is the PV generates power too (see picture 3). It's not supposed since there is no load (open circuit). More, the generated voltage is at the full charge value of 35V (Vopen = 43.5V). 2) Second test: Add batteries on the load node. Nothing happens. The PV reacts exactly like the first test. More, the load node voltage is zero. I expected the same value than the PV node since they are linked by a wire. 3) Some design details For the PV, I use the crystalline RMS1100 PV include on special component "building integrated-renewable". For the batteries, I use the "Power sonic Batteries" include on "Power Only Component" It will be appreciated to have some help for the design of my electrical network or some documentations. Thank you Philip N?ron <> <> <> Philip N?ron ?tudiant COOP | COOP student Exploration plan?taire | Planetary exploration Sciences spatiales | Space sciences Agence spatiale canadienne | Canadian Space Agency 6767, Route de l'A?roport, Longueuil, QC, Canada, J3Y 8Y9 T?l/Tel : (450) 926-5816 | T?l?c/Fax : (450) 926-4449 Courriel/E-mail :[philip.neron at espace.gc.ca] Site web/Web site : [www.espace.gc.ca ] _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From qzhzhu at 163.com Tue Nov 6 00:21:21 2007 From: qzhzhu at 163.com (=?utf-8?B?IOS7h+S4reafsSAgICBEci4gUWl1?=) Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2007 08:21:21 +0800 Subject: [esp-r] =?utf-8?q?_Re=3A_why_no_response_when_I_press_simulation_-=3E_in?= =?utf-8?q?tegrtedsimulation-=3Einvoke_simulation=3F?= Message-ID: <472FB386.29F473.18038@m12-16.163.com> A recent question: with windows-native-version, why no response when I press simulation -> integrted simulation->invoke simulation? There could a any number of causes for this.?The simulator in esp-r is an executable bps.exe and it should be located in C:\Esru\esp-r\bin If it exists - try clicking on it (or try running it from a DOS command line) and see if anything happens.?If an application starts up then it could be that the 'path' environment variable is not correctly set and the executable is not being located correctly. If could be that your model has syntax errors that prevent the simulator being started.?The description of the problem does not indicate that?/DIV> any warning messages were given prior to 'invoke simulation' To determine if this is a problem with a specific model, select one of the exemplar models (a simple one) and see if you can run a simulation. -ESRU -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20071106/7ba327ec/attachment.html From esprfans at hotmail.com Tue Nov 6 15:35:39 2007 From: esprfans at hotmail.com (Leepaul) Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2007 23:35:39 +0800 Subject: [esp-r] libg2c.so.0 file? Message-ID: Hi,all, I install ESP-r on linux, when I start esp-r in command window, esp-r refuse to start and reply"can't find library file-libg2c.so.0", how to do? it exausted me. thanks. Leepaul _________________________________________________________________ ????? MSN ?????????? http://mobile.msn.com.cn/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20071106/b75a858d/attachment.html From esprfans at hotmail.com Tue Nov 6 15:43:52 2007 From: esprfans at hotmail.com (Leepaul) Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2007 23:43:52 +0800 Subject: [esp-r] what linux version is the best for ESP-r Message-ID: hi, esp-r users, we have a lot of linux versions, which one is the best for ESP_R installation? thanks, LeepaulQ _________________________________________________________________ ????? MSN ?????????? http://mobile.msn.com.cn/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20071106/7a6a61a1/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Tue Nov 6 21:56:00 2007 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2007 21:56:00 -0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: what linux version is the best for ESP-r References: Message-ID: Several of the staff in ESRU have adopted Ubuntu Linux (7.04) as a platform for ESP-r development and production work. The auto-detect of hardware tends to be good and the management of software packages is robust. Once you know what you want it tends to resolve dependencies (package A needs library X and Y). No experience yet with Ubuntu 7.10. We are compiling a list of "this is what you need" for Ubuntu which we could make available at some point in the future. Of course it also helps to make friends with others who use a particular computing platform to answer those questions that are difficult via email. -ESRU -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk on behalf of Leepaul Sent: Tue 11/6/2007 3:43 PM To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] what linux version is the best for ESP-r hi, esp-r users, we have a lot of linux versions, which one is the best for ESP_R installation? thanks, LeepaulQ _________________________________________________________________ ????? MSN ???,?????! http://mobile.msn.com.cn/ From horsford at eastlink.ca Tue Nov 6 22:06:32 2007 From: horsford at eastlink.ca (Andrew Horsford) Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2007 18:06:32 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] Re: what linux version is the best for ESP-r References: Message-ID: <018701c820c1$4a9ae020$6401a8c0@Taurion> I've been using Fedora Core 5 for some time - is there sufficient cause to migrate to Ubuntu? eg. the development staff have the most detailed knowledge of how ESP-r behaves when run on it ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon Hand" To: "Leepaul" ; Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 5:56 PM Subject: [esp-r] Re: what linux version is the best for ESP-r > > Several of the staff in ESRU have adopted Ubuntu Linux (7.04) as a > platform for ESP-r development and production work. The > auto-detect of hardware tends to be good and the management > of software packages is robust. Once you know what you want > it tends to resolve dependencies (package A needs library X and Y). > No experience yet with Ubuntu 7.10. > > We are compiling a list of "this is what you need" for Ubuntu > which we could make available at some point in the future. Of > course it also helps to make friends with others who use a > particular computing platform to answer those questions that > are difficult via email. > > -ESRU > > > -----Original Message----- > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk on behalf of Leepaul > Sent: Tue 11/6/2007 3:43 PM > To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Subject: [esp-r] what linux version is the best for ESP-r > > > hi, esp-r users, > we have a lot of linux versions, which one is the best for ESP_R > installation? > thanks, > LeepaulQ > _________________________________________________________________ > ????? MSN ???,?????! > http://mobile.msn.com.cn/ > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From Bernhard.Schweighofer at tugraz.at Wed Nov 7 06:15:46 2007 From: Bernhard.Schweighofer at tugraz.at (Bernhard Schweighofer) Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2007 07:15:46 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: libg2c.so.0 file? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <47315812.80402@tugraz.at> Leepaul wrote: > Hi,all, > I install ESP-r on linux, when I start esp-r in command window, esp-r > refuse to start and reply"can't find library file-libg2c.so.0", how to do? This library gets installed with the Fortran package for gcc - it should be called something like 'gcc-g77'. After installation you should find it in the path /usr/lib/ regards Bernhard From Gunter.Pueltz at MuellerBBM.de Wed Nov 7 06:38:49 2007 From: Gunter.Pueltz at MuellerBBM.de (Pueltz, Gunter) Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 07:38:49 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] air quality assessment for room with natural ventilation Message-ID: <2417729F3416D511A27E0090273A963B02787736@smex01.mbbm.de> Dear ESP-r developers, currently I have a simulation job for an office building, which shows only natural ventilation (NO mechanical ventilation) by openable windows. In Summer the rooms are cooled by chilled ceilings. Now my client wants infos about the indoor air quality, which can be obtained by the window ventilation. I do know, that ESP-r shows the ability to calculate CO2-concentrations. This is a good facility to assess indoor air quality, as CO2 is representing air quality very well. But my last knowledge of this contaminant calculations in ESP-r was, that for a flow component with BI-DIRECTIONAL air flow (typical for an open window) only the net-flow is taken into account for the CO2-balance in ESP-r. The net-flow of an open window of one single room always is zero - so this approach do not work for a room with single-sided window ventilation. Or - in other words - the reduction of CO2-concentration in a room by a bidirectional airflow through an open window can not be calculated so far. Currently I am using ESP-r, version 11.3: Does this (or a future ?) version show the ability to assess indoor air quality in rooms with natural ventilation (which means BI-DIRECTIONAL air flow must be taken into account completely) ? Best regards, Gunter -- Dr. Gunter P?ltz M?ller-BBM GmbH Robert-Koch-Stra?e 11 82152 Planegg Telefon +49 (0)89 85602 - 336 Telefax +49 (0)89 85602 - 111 http://www.MuellerBBM.de HRB M?nchen 86143 Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Bernd Gr?zinger, Dr. Edwin Schorer, Norbert Suritsch From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Wed Nov 7 07:06:31 2007 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 07:06:31 -0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: air quality assessment for room with natural ventilation References: <2417729F3416D511A27E0090273A963B02787736@smex01.mbbm.de> Message-ID: A bi-directional component might be replace by two common orifice components (suitably placed to represent the upper and lower portion of the window). That should allow the CO2 to 'see' the flow in. Whether the CO2 bookkeepping could be revised to allow it to track both paths of a bi-directional component is something Aizaz might advise on. -Jon -----Original Message----- From: Pueltz, Gunter [mailto:Gunter.Pueltz at MuellerBBM.de] Sent: Wed 11/7/2007 6:38 AM To: 'esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk' Cc: Aizaz Samuel; Jon Hand Subject: air quality assessment for room with natural ventilation Dear ESP-r developers, currently I have a simulation job for an office building, which shows only natural ventilation (NO mechanical ventilation) by openable windows. In Summer the rooms are cooled by chilled ceilings. Now my client wants infos about the indoor air quality, which can be obtained by the window ventilation. I do know, that ESP-r shows the ability to calculate CO2-concentrations. This is a good facility to assess indoor air quality, as CO2 is representing air quality very well. But my last knowledge of this contaminant calculations in ESP-r was, that for a flow component with BI-DIRECTIONAL air flow (typical for an open window) only the net-flow is taken into account for the CO2-balance in ESP-r. The net-flow of an open window of one single room always is zero - so this approach do not work for a room with single-sided window ventilation. Or - in other words - the reduction of CO2-concentration in a room by a bidirectional airflow through an open window can not be calculated so far. Currently I am using ESP-r, version 11.3: Does this (or a future ?) version show the ability to assess indoor air quality in rooms with natural ventilation (which means BI-DIRECTIONAL air flow must be taken into account completely) ? Best regards, Gunter -- Dr. Gunter P?ltz M?ller-BBM GmbH Robert-Koch-Stra?e 11 82152 Planegg Telefon +49 (0)89 85602 - 336 Telefax +49 (0)89 85602 - 111 http://www.MuellerBBM.de HRB M?nchen 86143 Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Bernd Gr?zinger, Dr. Edwin Schorer, Norbert Suritsch From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Wed Nov 7 07:18:12 2007 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 07:18:12 -0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: what linux version is the best for ESP-r References: <018701c820c1$4a9ae020$6401a8c0@Taurion> Message-ID: A recent question... ::Subject: Re: what linux version is the best for ESP-r ::I've been using Fedora Core 5 for some time - is there sufficient cause to ::migrate to Ubuntu? eg. the development staff have the most detailed ::knowledge of how ESP-r behaves when run on it If ESP-r works on Core 5 for you then there is no particular argument for switching unless there is some other package available on Ubuntu that you can't get in Core 5 or if your hardware does not work well with Core 5. ESP-r requires a set of compilers and libraries that is almost always available what-ever Linux distribution you happen to use. Currently the issue is availability of the older GNU compilers that ESP-r needs. Ubuntu allows access to this and some other distros can be more difficult. -Jon Hand From esprfans at hotmail.com Wed Nov 7 07:18:04 2007 From: esprfans at hotmail.com (Leepaul) Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 15:18:04 +0800 Subject: [esp-r] Re: libg2c.so.0 file? In-Reply-To: <47315812.80402@tugraz.at> References: <47315812.80402@tugraz.at> Message-ID: Hi,Dear Mr. I don't find this file in /usr/lib. and what linux version are you using? and did you meet this problem? thanks, Leepaul > Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 07:15:46 +0100> From: Bernhard.Schweighofer at tugraz.at> To: esprfans at hotmail.com> CC: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk> Subject: Re: [esp-r] libg2c.so.0 file?> > Leepaul wrote:> > Hi,all,> > I install ESP-r on linux, when I start esp-r in command window, esp-r > > refuse to start and reply"can't find library file-libg2c.so.0", how to do?> > This library gets installed with the Fortran package for gcc - it should be> called something like 'gcc-g77'. After installation you should find it in the> path /usr/lib/> > regards> Bernhard _________________________________________________________________ MSN ???????????????????? http://cn.msn.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20071107/25e7908b/attachment-0001.html From esprfans at hotmail.com Wed Nov 7 08:23:21 2007 From: esprfans at hotmail.com (Leepaul) Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 16:23:21 +0800 Subject: [esp-r] Re: what linux version is the best for ESP-r In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear Mr. if I use Ubuntu Linux (7.04), will I meet the problem as "can't find shared library file 'libg2c.so.0'"? I use mandriva linux 10.2, after installation, no 'libg2c.so.0' file in the path /usr/lib/. thanks. Leepaul > Subject: RE: [esp-r] what linux version is the best for ESP-r> Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2007 21:56:00 +0000> From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk> To: esprfans at hotmail.com; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk> > > Several of the staff in ESRU have adopted Ubuntu Linux (7.04) as a> platform for ESP-r development and production work. The> auto-detect of hardware tends to be good and the management> of software packages is robust. Once you know what you want> it tends to resolve dependencies (package A needs library X and Y).> No experience yet with Ubuntu 7.10.> > We are compiling a list of "this is what you need" for Ubuntu> which we could make available at some point in the future. Of> course it also helps to make friends with others who use a> particular computing platform to answer those questions that> are difficult via email.> > -ESRU> > > -----Original Message-----> From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk on behalf of Leepaul> Sent: Tue 11/6/2007 3:43 PM> To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk> Subject: [esp-r] what linux version is the best for ESP-r> > > hi, esp-r users,> we have a lot of linux versions, which one is the best for ESP_R installation?> thanks,> LeepaulQ> _________________________________________________________________> ????? MSN ???,?????!> http://mobile.msn.com.cn/> _________________________________________________________________ ? Live Search ??????? http://www.live.com/?searchOnly=true -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20071107/dd4829ba/attachment.html From aizaz.a.samuel at strath.ac.uk Wed Nov 7 10:04:17 2007 From: aizaz.a.samuel at strath.ac.uk (Aizaz Samuel) Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 10:04:17 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: what linux version is the best for ESP-r In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200711071004.17320.aizaz.a.samuel@strath.ac.uk> I am using Mandriva 10.2 for most development work as well as Ubuntu 7.4 on a second machine, I found that ESP-r is (much) easier to install on Ubuntu. Most of the work I do is on Mandriva because I managed to get a stable and satisfactory system but will probably upgrade to Ubuntu when I will next upgrade my system. The library libg2c.so.0 is contained within libf2c0 which is a fortran runtime library, I usually would take this from rpmseek.com for Mandriva OS -Aizaz On Wednesday 07 November 2007 08:23, Leepaul wrote: > Dear Mr. > if I use Ubuntu Linux (7.04), will I meet the problem as "can't find shared > library file 'libg2c.so.0'"? I use mandriva linux 10.2, after installation, > no 'libg2c.so.0' file in the path /usr/lib/. thanks. > > Leepaul > > > Subject: RE: [esp-r] what linux version is the best for ESP-r > > Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2007 21:56:00 +0000 > > From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk > > To: esprfans at hotmail.com; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > > > > > Several of the staff in ESRU have adopted Ubuntu Linux (7.04) as a > > platform for ESP-r development and production work. The > > auto-detect of hardware tends to be good and the management > > of software packages is robust. Once you know what you want > > it tends to resolve dependencies (package A needs library X and Y). > > No experience yet with Ubuntu 7.10. > > > > We are compiling a list of "this is what you need" for Ubuntu > > which we could make available at some point in the future. Of > > course it also helps to make friends with others who use a > > particular computing platform to answer those questions that > > are difficult via email. > > > > -ESRU > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk on behalf of Leepaul > > Sent: Tue 11/6/2007 3:43 PM > > To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > Subject: [esp-r] what linux version is the best for ESP-r > > > > > > hi, esp-r users, > > we have a lot of linux versions, which one is the best for ESP_R > > installation? thanks, > > LeepaulQ > > _________________________________________________________________ > > ????? MSN ???,?????! > > http://mobile.msn.com.cn/ > > ________________________________ > ????? Hotmail???????????????? ????? From aizaz.a.samuel at strath.ac.uk Wed Nov 7 10:24:31 2007 From: aizaz.a.samuel at strath.ac.uk (Aizaz Samuel) Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 10:24:31 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: air quality assessment for room with natural ventilation In-Reply-To: References: <2417729F3416D511A27E0090273A963B02787736@smex01.mbbm.de> Message-ID: <200711071024.31164.aizaz.a.samuel@strath.ac.uk> Contaminant modelling works with bi-directional flow components just as with other components and you probably will end up with more CO2 going out of the zone as coming into it provided there are local CO2 sources (metabolic rates maybe) defined within the zone. I have never made a model with bi-directional components though and would fall back on Jon's recommendation if it does not work. There is no provision yet to show the mass flow of contaminant along each flow path because only concentration for each node is stored in the results library. It should be possible to obtain this information by post processing node concentrations and air flow rates -Aizaz On Wednesday 07 November 2007 07:06, Jon Hand wrote: > A bi-directional component might be replace by > two common orifice components (suitably placed to > represent the upper and lower portion of the window). > That should allow the CO2 to 'see' the flow in. > > Whether the CO2 bookkeepping could be revised to > allow it to track both paths of a bi-directional component > is something Aizaz might advise on. > > -Jon > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Pueltz, Gunter [mailto:Gunter.Pueltz at MuellerBBM.de] > Sent: Wed 11/7/2007 6:38 AM > To: 'esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk' > Cc: Aizaz Samuel; Jon Hand > Subject: air quality assessment for room with natural ventilation > > Dear ESP-r developers, > > currently I have a simulation job for an office building, which shows > only natural ventilation (NO mechanical ventilation) by openable windows. > In Summer the rooms are cooled by chilled ceilings. > > Now my client wants infos about the indoor air quality, which can be > obtained by the window ventilation. > I do know, that ESP-r shows the ability to calculate CO2-concentrations. > This is a good facility to assess indoor air quality, as CO2 is > representing air quality very well. > But my last knowledge of this contaminant calculations in ESP-r was, > that for a flow component with BI-DIRECTIONAL air flow (typical for an open > window) > only the net-flow is taken into account for the CO2-balance in ESP-r. > The net-flow of an open window of one single room always is zero - so this > approach > do not work for a room with single-sided window ventilation. > Or - in other words - the reduction of CO2-concentration in a room by a > bidirectional airflow through an open window can not be calculated so far. > > Currently I am using ESP-r, version 11.3: Does this (or a future ?) version > show the ability to assess indoor air quality in rooms with natural > ventilation > (which means BI-DIRECTIONAL air flow must be taken into account completely) > ? > > Best regards, > Gunter > > -- > Dr. Gunter P?ltz > > M?ller-BBM GmbH > Robert-Koch-Stra?e 11 > 82152 Planegg > Telefon +49 (0)89 85602 - 336 > Telefax +49 (0)89 85602 - 111 > http://www.MuellerBBM.de > > HRB M?nchen 86143 > Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Bernd Gr?zinger, Dr. Edwin Schorer, Norbert Suritsch From jeremy at esru.strath.ac.uk Wed Nov 7 11:28:30 2007 From: jeremy at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jeremy Cockroft) Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 11:28:30 -0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: air quality assessment for room with natural ventilation In-Reply-To: <200711071024.31164.aizaz.a.samuel@strath.ac.uk> References: <2417729F3416D511A27E0090273A963B02787736@smex01.mbbm.de> <200711071024.31164.aizaz.a.samuel@strath.ac.uk> Message-ID: <221C1AC3541E7D4FB09EB58B16FFEF4A011731B4@BE-SCAM2.ds.strath.ac.uk> I think the question is: does ESP-r have the capability to model bi-directional airflow through an open window into a zone that is substantially sealed from other zones in the building. A common question and the answer (short of invoking the CFD domain) is no - the bi-directional flow component was originally developed to model tall vertical openings, typically doors, between zones, with bouyancy driven airflows in either direction. It does not take account of wind turbulence effects that will drive bi-directional airflow at an open window, which is what is missing for this application. Modelling as two orifices won't help - they will both see the same external pressure node. This topic has been researched (I co-authored a paper on this in the '70s) but to my knowledge no-one has coded such functionality into any zonal dynamic modelling tool ... but I might be mistaken ... Jeremy -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Aizaz Samuel Sent: 07 November 2007 10:25 To: Pueltz, Gunter Cc: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Re: air quality assessment for room with natural ventilation Contaminant modelling works with bi-directional flow components just as with other components and you probably will end up with more CO2 going out of the zone as coming into it provided there are local CO2 sources (metabolic rates maybe) defined within the zone. I have never made a model with bi-directional components though and would fall back on Jon's recommendation if it does not work. There is no provision yet to show the mass flow of contaminant along each flow path because only concentration for each node is stored in the results library. It should be possible to obtain this information by post processing node concentrations and air flow rates -Aizaz On Wednesday 07 November 2007 07:06, Jon Hand wrote: > A bi-directional component might be replace by two common orifice > components (suitably placed to represent the upper and lower portion > of the window). > That should allow the CO2 to 'see' the flow in. > > Whether the CO2 bookkeepping could be revised to allow it to track > both paths of a bi-directional component is something Aizaz might > advise on. > > -Jon > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Pueltz, Gunter [mailto:Gunter.Pueltz at MuellerBBM.de] > Sent: Wed 11/7/2007 6:38 AM > To: 'esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk' > Cc: Aizaz Samuel; Jon Hand > Subject: air quality assessment for room with natural ventilation > > Dear ESP-r developers, > > currently I have a simulation job for an office building, which shows > only natural ventilation (NO mechanical ventilation) by openable windows. > In Summer the rooms are cooled by chilled ceilings. > > Now my client wants infos about the indoor air quality, which can be > obtained by the window ventilation. > I do know, that ESP-r shows the ability to calculate CO2-concentrations. > This is a good facility to assess indoor air quality, as CO2 is > representing air quality very well. > But my last knowledge of this contaminant calculations in ESP-r was, > that for a flow component with BI-DIRECTIONAL air flow (typical for an > open > window) > only the net-flow is taken into account for the CO2-balance in ESP-r. > The net-flow of an open window of one single room always is zero - so > this approach do not work for a room with single-sided window > ventilation. > Or - in other words - the reduction of CO2-concentration in a room by > a bidirectional airflow through an open window can not be calculated so far. > > Currently I am using ESP-r, version 11.3: Does this (or a future ?) > version show the ability to assess indoor air quality in rooms with > natural ventilation (which means BI-DIRECTIONAL air flow must be taken > into account completely) ? > > Best regards, > Gunter > > -- > Dr. Gunter P?ltz > > M?ller-BBM GmbH > Robert-Koch-Stra?e 11 > 82152 Planegg > Telefon +49 (0)89 85602 - 336 > Telefax +49 (0)89 85602 - 111 > http://www.MuellerBBM.de > > HRB M?nchen 86143 > Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Bernd Gr?zinger, Dr. Edwin Schorer, Norbert Suritsch _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch Wed Nov 7 12:02:17 2007 From: Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch (Geissler Achim) Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 13:02:17 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: air quality assessment for room with natural ventilation References: <2417729F3416D511A27E0090273A963B02787736@smex01.mbbm.de><200711071024.31164.aizaz.a.samuel@strath.ac.uk> <221C1AC3541E7D4FB09EB58B16FFEF4A011731B4@BE-SCAM2.ds.strath.ac.uk> Message-ID: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C25FC75@sgartgum1.gart.intra> ... I seem to remember that Comis was capable. However, one needed to define the "Stack" in the one-sided-ventilated-zone (temperature difference over the height of the zone). And, one could define two different external nodes for the top / bottom opening to the outside with two different sets of Cp-values ... Maybe stacking a few zones for one actual space and then having inlet and outlet in different stacked zones could help. For this type of model I am always a bit queasy in regard to long wave radiation ... Gunter did mention a cooled ceiling ... Regards, Achim > -----Original Message----- > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r- > bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Jeremy Cockroft > Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 12:29 PM > To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Subject: [esp-r] Re: air quality assessment for room with natural > ventilation > > I think the question is: does ESP-r have the capability to model bi- > directional airflow through an open window into a zone that is > substantially sealed from other zones in the building. A common question > and the answer (short of invoking the CFD domain) is no - the bi- > directional flow component was originally developed to model tall vertical > openings, typically doors, between zones, with bouyancy driven airflows in > either direction. It does not take account of wind turbulence effects > that will drive bi-directional airflow at an open window, which is what is > missing for this application. Modelling as two orifices won't help - they > will both see the same external pressure node. > > This topic has been researched (I co-authored a paper on this in the '70s) > but to my knowledge no-one has coded such functionality into any zonal > dynamic modelling tool ... but I might be mistaken ... > > Jeremy > > -----Original Message----- > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r- > bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Aizaz Samuel > Sent: 07 November 2007 10:25 > To: Pueltz, Gunter > Cc: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Subject: [esp-r] Re: air quality assessment for room with natural > ventilation > > Contaminant modelling works with bi-directional flow components just as > with other components and you probably will end up with more CO2 going out > of the zone as coming into it provided there are local CO2 sources > (metabolic rates > maybe) defined within the zone. I have never made a model with bi- > directional components though and would fall back on Jon's recommendation > if it does not work. > > There is no provision yet to show the mass flow of contaminant along each > flow path because only concentration for each node is stored in the > results library. It should be possible to obtain this information by post > processing node concentrations and air flow rates > > -Aizaz > > On Wednesday 07 November 2007 07:06, Jon Hand wrote: > > A bi-directional component might be replace by two common orifice > > components (suitably placed to represent the upper and lower portion > > of the window). > > That should allow the CO2 to 'see' the flow in. > > > > Whether the CO2 bookkeepping could be revised to allow it to track > > both paths of a bi-directional component is something Aizaz might > > advise on. > > > > -Jon > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Pueltz, Gunter [mailto:Gunter.Pueltz at MuellerBBM.de] > > Sent: Wed 11/7/2007 6:38 AM > > To: 'esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk' > > Cc: Aizaz Samuel; Jon Hand > > Subject: air quality assessment for room with natural ventilation > > > > Dear ESP-r developers, > > > > currently I have a simulation job for an office building, which shows > > only natural ventilation (NO mechanical ventilation) by openable windows. > > In Summer the rooms are cooled by chilled ceilings. > > > > Now my client wants infos about the indoor air quality, which can be > > obtained by the window ventilation. > > I do know, that ESP-r shows the ability to calculate CO2-concentrations. > > This is a good facility to assess indoor air quality, as CO2 is > > representing air quality very well. > > But my last knowledge of this contaminant calculations in ESP-r was, > > that for a flow component with BI-DIRECTIONAL air flow (typical for an > > open > > window) > > only the net-flow is taken into account for the CO2-balance in ESP-r. > > The net-flow of an open window of one single room always is zero - so > > this approach do not work for a room with single-sided window > > ventilation. > > Or - in other words - the reduction of CO2-concentration in a room by > > a bidirectional airflow through an open window can not be calculated so > far. > > > > Currently I am using ESP-r, version 11.3: Does this (or a future ?) > > version show the ability to assess indoor air quality in rooms with > > natural ventilation (which means BI-DIRECTIONAL air flow must be taken > > into account completely) ? > > > > Best regards, > > Gunter > > > > -- > > Dr. Gunter P?ltz > > > > M?ller-BBM GmbH > > Robert-Koch-Stra?e 11 > > 82152 Planegg > > Telefon +49 (0)89 85602 - 336 > > Telefax +49 (0)89 85602 - 111 > > http://www.MuellerBBM.de > > > > HRB M?nchen 86143 > > Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Bernd Gr?zinger, Dr. Edwin Schorer, Norbert Suritsch > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From Florian.Stift at arsenal.ac.at Wed Nov 7 09:04:25 2007 From: Florian.Stift at arsenal.ac.at (Stift Florian) Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 10:04:25 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: libg2c.so.0 file? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <408B0E73B64A0B4A98673E6387A332680340B03A@s1ms19.D01.arc.local> Try: http://rpmfind.net/linux/rpm2html/search.php?query=libg2c.so.0&submit=Search+...&system=&arch= Best Regards, -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] Im Auftrag von Leepaul Gesendet: Mittwoch, 7. November 2007 08:18 An: Bernhard Schweighofer Cc: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Betreff: [esp-r] Re: libg2c.so.0 file? Hi,Dear Mr. I don't find this file in /usr/lib. and what linux version are you using? and did you meet this problem? thanks, Leepaul > Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 07:15:46 +0100 > From: Bernhard.Schweighofer at tugraz.at > To: esprfans at hotmail.com > CC: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Subject: Re: [esp-r] libg2c.so.0 file? > > Leepaul wrote: > > Hi,all, > > I install ESP-r on linux, when I start esp-r in command window, esp-r > > refuse to start and reply"can't find library file-libg2c.so.0", how to do? > > This library gets installed with the Fortran package for gcc - it should be > called something like 'gcc-g77'. After installation you should find it in the > path /usr/lib/ > > regards > Bernhard ________________________________ ???????????????? Windows Live Mail? ????? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20071107/8bc9c425/attachment.html From jcalixihan at cladding.com Wed Nov 7 09:41:19 2007 From: jcalixihan at cladding.com (Jun Calixihan) Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 17:41:19 +0800 Subject: [esp-r] ESP-r capabilities Message-ID: <000001c82122$63931f50$2ab95df0$@com> Hello, I'm interested to know if ESP-r can model wind turbines, photovoltaics, fuel cells and fuel cell heat recovery, water-side economizer (cooling tower heat recovery), absorption chillers. I already use EnergyPlus interfaces but it seems I still need to modify the EnergyPlus idf file to get the model that I need. An alternative program might make it easier for me. Thank you. Rgds, Jun Calixihan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20071107/3001c3e9/attachment.html From Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch Wed Nov 7 12:10:24 2007 From: Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch (Geissler Achim) Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 13:10:24 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: air quality assessment for room with natural ventilation References: <2417729F3416D511A27E0090273A963B02787736@smex01.mbbm.de><200711071024.31164.aizaz.a.samuel@strath.ac.uk><221C1AC3541E7D4FB09EB58B16FFEF4A011731B4@BE-SCAM2.ds.strath.ac.uk> <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C25FC75@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Message-ID: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C25FC78@sgartgum1.gart.intra> ... and, as an afterthought, for those of the community that can read German, there are a few studies on the topic available on the net: http://www.uni-kassel.de/fb6/bpy/de/index.html Section "Luftwechsel" (at the bottom of the page) Achim > -----Original Message----- > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r- > bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Geissler Achim > Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 1:02 PM > To: Jeremy Cockroft; esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Subject: [esp-r] Re: air quality assessment for room with natural > ventilation > > ... I seem to remember that Comis was capable. However, one needed to > define the "Stack" in the one-sided-ventilated-zone (temperature > difference over the height of the zone). And, one could define two > different external nodes for the top / bottom opening to the outside with > two different sets of Cp-values ... > Maybe stacking a few zones for one actual space and then having inlet and > outlet in different stacked zones could help. For this type of model I am > always a bit queasy in regard to long wave radiation ... Gunter did > mention a cooled ceiling ... > Regards, > Achim > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r- > > bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Jeremy Cockroft > > Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 12:29 PM > > To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > Subject: [esp-r] Re: air quality assessment for room with natural > > ventilation > > > > I think the question is: does ESP-r have the capability to model bi- > > directional airflow through an open window into a zone that is > > substantially sealed from other zones in the building. A common > question > > and the answer (short of invoking the CFD domain) is no - the bi- > > directional flow component was originally developed to model tall > vertical > > openings, typically doors, between zones, with bouyancy driven airflows > in > > either direction. It does not take account of wind turbulence effects > > that will drive bi-directional airflow at an open window, which is what > is > > missing for this application. Modelling as two orifices won't help - > they > > will both see the same external pressure node. > > > > This topic has been researched (I co-authored a paper on this in the > '70s) > > but to my knowledge no-one has coded such functionality into any zonal > > dynamic modelling tool ... but I might be mistaken ... > > > > Jeremy > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r- > > bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Aizaz Samuel > > Sent: 07 November 2007 10:25 > > To: Pueltz, Gunter > > Cc: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > Subject: [esp-r] Re: air quality assessment for room with natural > > ventilation > > > > Contaminant modelling works with bi-directional flow components just as > > with other components and you probably will end up with more CO2 going > out > > of the zone as coming into it provided there are local CO2 sources > > (metabolic rates > > maybe) defined within the zone. I have never made a model with bi- > > directional components though and would fall back on Jon's > recommendation > > if it does not work. > > > > There is no provision yet to show the mass flow of contaminant along > each > > flow path because only concentration for each node is stored in the > > results library. It should be possible to obtain this information by > post > > processing node concentrations and air flow rates > > > > -Aizaz > > > > On Wednesday 07 November 2007 07:06, Jon Hand wrote: > > > A bi-directional component might be replace by two common orifice > > > components (suitably placed to represent the upper and lower portion > > > of the window). > > > That should allow the CO2 to 'see' the flow in. > > > > > > Whether the CO2 bookkeepping could be revised to allow it to track > > > both paths of a bi-directional component is something Aizaz might > > > advise on. > > > > > > -Jon > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Pueltz, Gunter [mailto:Gunter.Pueltz at MuellerBBM.de] > > > Sent: Wed 11/7/2007 6:38 AM > > > To: 'esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk' > > > Cc: Aizaz Samuel; Jon Hand > > > Subject: air quality assessment for room with natural ventilation > > > > > > Dear ESP-r developers, > > > > > > currently I have a simulation job for an office building, which shows > > > only natural ventilation (NO mechanical ventilation) by openable > windows. > > > In Summer the rooms are cooled by chilled ceilings. > > > > > > Now my client wants infos about the indoor air quality, which can be > > > obtained by the window ventilation. > > > I do know, that ESP-r shows the ability to calculate CO2- > concentrations. > > > This is a good facility to assess indoor air quality, as CO2 is > > > representing air quality very well. > > > But my last knowledge of this contaminant calculations in ESP-r was, > > > that for a flow component with BI-DIRECTIONAL air flow (typical for an > > > open > > > window) > > > only the net-flow is taken into account for the CO2-balance in ESP-r. > > > The net-flow of an open window of one single room always is zero - so > > > this approach do not work for a room with single-sided window > > > ventilation. > > > Or - in other words - the reduction of CO2-concentration in a room by > > > a bidirectional airflow through an open window can not be calculated > so > > far. > > > > > > Currently I am using ESP-r, version 11.3: Does this (or a future ?) > > > version show the ability to assess indoor air quality in rooms with > > > natural ventilation (which means BI-DIRECTIONAL air flow must be taken > > > into account completely) ? > > > > > > Best regards, > > > Gunter > > > > > > -- > > > Dr. Gunter P?ltz > > > > > > M?ller-BBM GmbH > > > Robert-Koch-Stra?e 11 > > > 82152 Planegg > > > Telefon +49 (0)89 85602 - 336 > > > Telefax +49 (0)89 85602 - 111 > > > http://www.MuellerBBM.de > > > > > > HRB M?nchen 86143 > > > Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Bernd Gr?zinger, Dr. Edwin Schorer, Norbert Suritsch > > > > _______________________________________________ > > esp-r mailing list > > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > > > > _______________________________________________ > > esp-r mailing list > > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Wed Nov 7 12:24:30 2007 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 12:24:30 -0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: what linux version is the best for ESP-r References: Message-ID: This library is part of the GNU compiler dependencies releated to the g77 compiler. Some Linux only have the "C" and "C++" compilers installed by default and you have to install the g77 compiler packages and its dependencies. Ubuntu install from CD does not include all of the needed packages so you have to use the package manager to ask for the missing packages. One important one is called "build-essential" -ESRU QUESTION: if I use Ubuntu Linux (7.04), will I meet the problem as "can't find shared library file 'libg2c.so.0'"? I use mandriva linux 10.2, after installation, no 'libg2c.so.0' file in the path /usr/lib/. thanks. From paul at esru.strath.ac.uk Wed Nov 7 12:33:51 2007 From: paul at esru.strath.ac.uk (paul strachan) Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2007 12:33:51 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: air quality assessment for room with natural ventilation Message-ID: <4731B0AF.2080104@esru.strath.ac.uk> This question came up in comparing results from double facade modelling in the current IEA34/43 task. The only program taking part which includes an allowance for turbulence effects was the Dutch program from VABI. It uses an algorithm from: Phaff et al., (1980). The ventilation of buildings. Investigation of the consequences of opening one window on the internal climate of the room, TNO report C448. Regards Paul > I think the question is: does ESP-r have the capability to model bi-directional airflow through an open window into a zone that is substantially sealed from other zones in the building. A common question and the answer (short of invoking the CFD domain) is no - the bi-directional flow component was originally developed to model tall vertical openings, typically doors, between zones, with bouyancy driven airflows in either direction. It does not take account of wind turbulence effects that will drive bi-directional airflow at an open window, which is what is missing for this application. Modelling as two orifices won't help - they will both see the same external pressure node. > > This topic has been researched (I co-authored a paper on this in the '70s) but to my knowledge no-one has coded such functionality into any zonal dynamic modelling tool ... but I might be mistaken ... > > Jeremy > > -----Original Message----- > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Aizaz Samuel > Sent: 07 November 2007 10:25 > To: Pueltz, Gunter > Cc: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Subject: [esp-r] Re: air quality assessment for room with natural ventilation > > Contaminant modelling works with bi-directional flow components just as with other components and you probably will end up with more CO2 going out of the zone as coming into it provided there are local CO2 sources (metabolic rates > maybe) defined within the zone. I have never made a model with bi-directional components though and would fall back on Jon's recommendation if it does not work. > > There is no provision yet to show the mass flow of contaminant along each flow path because only concentration for each node is stored in the results library. It should be possible to obtain this information by post processing node concentrations and air flow rates > > -Aizaz -- *************************************************************** Dr P A Strachan email: paul at esru.strath.ac.uk ESRU, Dept. of Mechanical Eng. phone: +44 141 548 2041 University of Strathclyde fax: +44 141 552 5105 Glasgow G1 1XJ, UK http://www.esru.strath.ac.uk *************************************************************** From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Wed Nov 7 12:48:47 2007 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 12:48:47 -0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: ESP-r capabilities References: <000001c82122$63931f50$2ab95df0$@com> Message-ID: A recent question: ::I'm interested to know if ESP-r can model wind turbines, photovoltaics, fuel ::cells and fuel cell heat recovery, water-side economizer (cooling tower heat ::recovery), absorption chillers. Can the question be a bit more specific in terms of a) what aspect(s) of wind turbines are of interest (e.g. is it an emperical relationship between wind speed and direction and power output or are you interested in power quality issues that arrise during rapid wind-shifts)? b) PV - both the thermal physics and electrical characteristics can be represented in detail (but only at a time frequeny of seconds). ESP-r supports full descriptions of electrical distribution systems and quite a few of the components so electical engineers have lots to play with. c) Fuel cells - Natural Resources Canada have created detailed models of building-scale fuel cells (including the chemical reactions so there are ~100 parameters that go into describing a fuel cell. d) There are one or two cooling tower models, whether they are sufficient for your needs is unknown. e) probably there is not an adsorption chiller, but it might be that the parameters of another component could be adapted for an approximation. Up-front warning - dragons have been spotted near some of these topics. -ESRU From Denis.Bourgeois at arc.ulaval.ca Wed Nov 7 13:58:44 2007 From: Denis.Bourgeois at arc.ulaval.ca (Denis J. Bourgeois) Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 08:58:44 -0500 Subject: [esp-r] =?iso-8859-1?q?RE=A0=3A__Re=3A_air_quality_assessment_for_room_w?= =?iso-8859-1?q?ith_natural_ventilation?= References: <4731B0AF.2080104@esru.strath.ac.uk> Message-ID: Just to add my two cents worth: AIOLOS can model single-sided ventilation, including turbulence effects. The latter is modeled from empirical data measured on (if I remember correctly) a single storey building, in what seemed a rural or suburban context. The Phaff (and de Gidds) model also considers turbulence effects, taken from empirical evidence. ... i.e. not sure how applicable this would be for a skyscraper. Both models are detailed in: Allard, F., K. Limam, et al. (1998). Fundamentals of natural ventilation. Natural Ventilation in Buildings: A Design Handbook. F. Allard. London, James & James: 9-62. You can also look up: Dascalaki, E., M. J. Santamouris, et al. (1996). "On the combination of air velocity and flow measurements in single sided natural ventilation configurations." Energy and Buildings 24(1): 155-165. Dascalaki, E., M. J. Santamouris, et al. (1995). "Predicting single-sided natural ventilation rates in buildings." Solar Energy 55(5): 327-341. Hope this helps, Denis _____ De: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk de la part de paul strachan Date: mer. 2007-11-07 07:33 ?: 'esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk' Objet : [esp-r] Re: air quality assessment for room with natural ventilation This question came up in comparing results from double facade modelling in the current IEA34/43 task. The only program taking part which includes an allowance for turbulence effects was the Dutch program from VABI. It uses an algorithm from: Phaff et al., (1980). The ventilation of buildings. Investigation of the consequences of opening one window on the internal climate of the room, TNO report C448. Regards Paul > I think the question is: does ESP-r have the capability to model bi-directional airflow through an open window into a zone that is substantially sealed from other zones in the building. A common question and the answer (short of invoking the CFD domain) is no - the bi-directional flow component was originally developed to model tall vertical openings, typically doors, between zones, with bouyancy driven airflows in either direction. It does not take account of wind turbulence effects that will drive bi-directional airflow at an open window, which is what is missing for this application. Modelling as two orifices won't help - they will both see the same external pressure node. > > This topic has been researched (I co-authored a paper on this in the '70s) but to my knowledge no-one has coded such functionality into any zonal dynamic modelling tool ... but I might be mistaken ... > > Jeremy > > -----Original Message----- > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [HYPERLINK "mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk"mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Aizaz Samuel > Sent: 07 November 2007 10:25 > To: Pueltz, Gunter > Cc: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Subject: [esp-r] Re: air quality assessment for room with natural ventilation > > Contaminant modelling works with bi-directional flow components just as with other components and you probably will end up with more CO2 going out of the zone as coming into it provided there are local CO2 sources (metabolic rates > maybe) defined within the zone. I have never made a model with bi-directional components though and would fall back on Jon's recommendation if it does not work. > > There is no provision yet to show the mass flow of contaminant along each flow path because only concentration for each node is stored in the results library. It should be possible to obtain this information by post processing node concentrations and air flow rates > > -Aizaz -- *************************************************************** Dr P A Strachan email: paul at esru.strath.ac.uk ESRU, Dept. of Mechanical Eng. phone: +44 141 548 2041 University of Strathclyde fax: +44 141 552 5105 Glasgow G1 1XJ, UK HYPERLINK "http://www.esru.strath.ac.uk/"http://www.esru.strath.ac.uk *************************************************************** _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk HYPERLINK "http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r"http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.23/1113 - Release Date: 2007-11-06 10:04 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20071107/2896c76c/attachment.html From ibeausol at mae.carleton.ca Fri Nov 9 13:31:12 2007 From: ibeausol at mae.carleton.ca (Ian Beausoleil-Morrison) Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 08:31:12 -0500 Subject: [esp-r] release of ESP-r version 11.4 Message-ID: <003601c822d4$cc15c8d0$64415a70$@carleton.ca> Dear ESP-r users and developers, Version 11.4 of the ESP-r system is now available. A summary of the changes and new features included in this release is given at the bottom of this e-mail. The source code may be accessed via the ESP-r Central Subversion repository. To do this, you must first install a Subversion client on your system. Free clients are available at http://subversion.tigris.org/project_packages.html. Once you have installed the Subversion client you can download the source code for version 11.4 of ESP-r anonymously using the following command: svn checkout https://esp-r.net/espr/esp-r/trunk OR svn checkout http://esp-r.net/espr/esp-r/trunk If you previously downloaded version 11.1, 11.2, or 11.3 with the above command, then you do not have to do a full download of version 11.4. Rather, you can update the source code by executing the following command from your "trunk" directory: svn update (ESP-r developers who wish to make source code contributions to ESP-r should contact Alex Ferguson at afersugo at nrcan.gc.ca who can configure an account for you on ESP-r Central. Further information on ESP-r Central for developers is available on the ESRU web site.) ESP-r source code is available exclusively through ESP-r Central. However, ESRU will continue to produce and post pre-compiled versions for specific operating environments on its web site. These binary versions will generally be made available within a few days of a source code release and will be announced to this e-mail list. Release notes will also continue to be posted on the ESRU web site. Regards, - Ian Ian Beausoleil-Morrison ESP-r Archivist on behalf of the ESP-r development team Carleton University Ottawa, Canada Release Notes 11.4 (November 2007) ==================== Generic Code Update ------------------- - A new system has been implemented to track and report version numbers. The information contained within ESP-r Central's subversion repository is automatically extracted and reported when an ESP-r binary is executed: information such as the branch and revision number is reported. - The Install script has been further improved: all user prompts are grouped at the beginning; a new debugging prompt has been added; command-line arguments for X11, GTK, and X-less installs have been added. - GTK file browsing support has been added for a number of file export facilities. - Updated GTK code to support more font types so users can switch to Courier for reports in the text feedback area. Simulator --------- - A new feature has been added to enable the use of TRNSYS TYPE's within ESP-r plant networks. This has been accomplished by adding a generic TRNSYS "wrapper" component to ESP-r's database of plant components and creating an accompanying static template and coefficient generator. This wrapper executes TRNSYS TYPE source code and places the outputs from the TRNSYS TYPE into the appropriate locations in ESP-r's plant matrix of equations. Use of this new facility requires that the fortran source code for the TRNSYS TYPE be compiled into ESP-r. However, the "wrapper" has been designed such that no alterations to the TRNSYS TYPE code are required (as long as its syntax is compatible with the compiler, e.g. g77). To make use of a TRNSYS TYPE within an ESP-r plant network, a text input file must be created to map the relationship between the TRNSYS TYPE's inputs and outputs and the plant network. At this point in time, no interface is provided to create this text file: it must be created in an external text editor. This feature should be considered beta at the current time. - The implementation of the IEA/ECBCS Annex 42 fuel cell cogeneration model as a plant component has been completed. This treats both PEMFC and SOFC devices. - The implementation of the IEA/ECBCS Annex 42 combustion cogeneration model as a plant component has been completed. This treats both internal combustion engine and Stirling engine devices. - An idealized VAV/CAV zone control law has been added for use in early design stage investigations. - There was a bug in the calculation of mean radiant temperatures (MRT) in the espvwf module. This was repaired. - For bi-directional optical properties a bug was fixed in handling the direct-to-diffuse component of the transmitted radiation. Previously it was incorrectly multiplied by the incident diffuse irradiation; now it is multiplied by the direct irradiation (with shading factor if applicable). The only impact is for models with bi-directional data - the magnitude of the correction will depend on whether the direct-to-diffuse component is significant for this case. - The power-only-component model of a wind turbine has been modified. A new option was added to allow users to specify wind speed data in a boundary condition definition file. A new 'look-up table' feature has been added to support this wind turbine model. With this an external text file can be created with two columns of data (wind speed and power output in this case). A plant domain, electric domain, or special material model can make use of the look-up table which includes facilities for interpolation. - The calculation of the auxiliary power draw of the hydrogen PEMFC plant model has been corrected. This change affects simulation results using this model. - The WATSUN-PV special material model has been modified to take into account the reflection of the PV module surface when calculating the effective irradiance reaching the solar cell. This change affects simulation results using this model. - Support has been added for linear thermal bridges. This feature can be invoked by the user via Project Manager's zone menu. - Support for plant controller sensor based on temperature difference between two plant components nodes has been added. - A new plant component has been created for a fully mixed water storage tank with an immersed coil heat exchanger. The heat transfer between the coil and the tank fluid can be based either on a correlation for a horizontal tube or for a helical coil. - A new plant component has been created for a stratified water storage tank. The number of stratified layers that can be used to represent the water within the tank can vary from 1 to 100. - A new plant component to represent make-up water flows has been created. The temperature of the make-up water flow can be calculated or specified. - A new plant component that imposes a flow rate between two other plant components has been created. The imposed flow rate can be scheduled. - The existing pump plant component has been modified to support flow of a mixture of 50% propylene glycol and 50% water. Project Manager --------------- - A number of changes have been made to harmonise and tidy up the Project Manager interface. Essentially, this involves modifications to help messages and default settings, and rationalisation of the menu syntax. Note that there is no change to menu item ordering and therefore no impact on script operation or simulation results. - The code related to events profiles has been updated in order to support a greater number of profiles. Warning messages regarding incorrect events profiles have been improved. - A bug could cause a reversal on surface ordering after exporting to a viewer format file. This has been repaired. - A number of 'continue' options have been added to dialogues to improve program navigation. - Minor format changes have been made to the IPV report. - A new capability has been added to allow the extrusion of zone enclosures from a surface. - The menu structure related to zone rotations and transforms has been improved and some new functionality has been added. - The standard materials databases (constr.db2.a) has been updated with data acquired through a web search as well as data from "Inventory of Carbon & Energy" by Hammond & Jones, University of Bath 2006. - The code related to control law 11 has been updated: the interface has improved feedback and help, a glitch in data entry has been repaired and improved for clarify, the trace output has been expanded, and the data provided in the QA report has been expanded. - Project manager now issues a warning rather than a failure for out-of-range wind reduction factors for network air flow. - To conform to EU Energy Performance Building Directive an alternative materials database format has been added. This change will be transparent for legacy models using binary materials databases. - Changes in format of IPV report specific to cooling data to allow plotting in I2PV java tool. Results Analyzer ---------------- - The frequency of residuals plotting during CFD solutions has been doubled. - The CFD module allows the visualization of flow on a time-step basis. Previously this was restricted to 99 time-steps. With this commit up to 999 time-steps can be visualized. - New functionality has been added to the facility that produces xml and csv simulation outputs. Time-step data can now optionally be stored to disk rather than pushing data onto the heap. This substantially reduces bps's memory requirements (by 5 to 70%) but also increases run-time (by 5 to 20%). Documentation on invoking this new feature is included in a text file. - A midnight spike bug related to graphing and timestep listings of casual gain data which has been corrected. Quality Control Utility ----------------------- - A large number of additional regression tests have been added including the full suite of inter-program comparative test cases for micro-cogeneration devices developed by IEA/ECBCS Annex 42. Climate Data ------------ - A number of new climate files have been added: Dijon (France), Seoul (South Korea), Hong Kong, Guangzhou (China), and Prague (Czech). - Support added to clm for the importation of Korean climate data. Additional Changes ------------------ - Many additional changes have been made that are transparent to the user. Information on these, as well as further details on all the above-mentioned changes, can be found in ESP-r Central's change log by providing the following URL to your web browser: https://esp-r.net/wsvn/espr/wsvn/esp-r/. From esprfans at hotmail.com Sun Nov 11 15:33:10 2007 From: esprfans at hotmail.com (Leepaul) Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2007 23:33:10 +0800 Subject: [esp-r] why the Zone DB temperature is not under control? Message-ID: Hi, all I make a simple project in accordance with cookbook, geometry->construction->clinate-> topologyp->control(basic control), but unfortunately, after simulation, when result analysis, I found the temperature didn't controled as I expected, e.g. I set heating zone DB T is 20 C, but result shows zone temperature always lower than 14 C. and when I perform simulating, the default result file title is "libb", not as examlar's "*.rst", why? what is the possible reason? any answers are helpful. thank you! Leepaul _________________________________________________________________ ????? MSN ?????????? http://mobile.msn.com.cn/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20071111/c37c856f/attachment.html From 3nes at queensu.ca Mon Nov 12 18:17:15 2007 From: 3nes at queensu.ca (Evan Sterling) Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 13:17:15 -0500 Subject: [esp-r] Check of cookbook exercises Message-ID: <5cd28790711121017r40bd7f6al60f13ce0a0a695aa@mail.gmail.com> I'm a newbie with ESP-r (and also an undergrad civil engineering student), and I'm looking for a way to numerically validate the exercises in the cookbook to ensure I'm doing them properly, beyond just the charts that are reproduced in the cookbook - this is especially important for me ,since I don't have the 'evolved intuition' about building science that most users have, so I need some quantitative proof for myself and my supervisor that I know how to use the program. Thanks for your help, Evan Sterling Civil Engineering and Applied Math '08 Queen's University, Kingston, Ontario 3nes at queensu.ca | sterling.evan at gmail.com (613) 547-3629 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20071112/bb7c726b/attachment.html From ibeausol at mae.carleton.ca Tue Nov 13 13:09:54 2007 From: ibeausol at mae.carleton.ca (Ian Beausoleil-Morrison) Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 08:09:54 -0500 Subject: [esp-r] (no subject) Message-ID: <002501c825f6$7be09f00$73a1dd00$@carleton.ca> ESP-r users and developers, Last week's ESP-r release included the following note regarding a plant component: > - The implementation of the IEA/ECBCS Annex 42 fuel cell cogeneration > model as a plant component has been completed. This treats both > PEMFC and SOFC devices. This plant component, a product of Annex 42 of the IEA's programme on Energy Conservation in Buildings and Community Systems Programme, can be used to simulate the performance of fuel-cell-based small-scale cogeneration (aka micro-cogeneration or micro-CHP) embedded within buildings. Three of the enclosed papers describe the theory, calibation, and validation of the model while the fourth demonstrates its use to assess the performance cogeneration devices within residential buildings. Regards, - Ian -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: SSB (2006).pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 112757 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20071113/b49c4557/attachment-0004.pdf -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: p232v2.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 744539 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20071113/b49c4557/attachment-0007.pdf From esprfans at hotmail.com Wed Nov 14 02:07:59 2007 From: esprfans at hotmail.com (Leepaul) Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 10:07:59 +0800 Subject: [esp-r] Re: esp-r Digest, Vol 16, Issue 14 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: HI,all, I finished a model in accordance with the cookbook, and next step, I would like to add Shading, HVAC, Fluid flow, CFD, etc. but cookbook has nothing about those. Where can I get a documentation like cookbook? thank you. Leepaul> From: esp-r-request at lists.strath.ac.uk> Subject: esp-r Digest, Vol 16, Issue 14> To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk> Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 20:58:25 +0000> > Send esp-r mailing list submissions to> esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit> http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to> esp-r-request at lists.strath.ac.uk> > You can reach the person managing the list at> esp-r-owner at lists.strath.ac.uk> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific> than "Re: Contents of esp-r digest..."> > > Today's Topics:> > 1. (no subject) (Ian Beausoleil-Morrison)> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------> > Message: 1> Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 08:09:54 -0500> From: "Ian Beausoleil-Morrison" > Subject: [esp-r] (no subject)> To: "ESP-r mailing list" > Message-ID: <002501c825f6$7be09f00$73a1dd00$@carleton.ca>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"> > ESP-r users and developers,> > Last week's ESP-r release included the following note regarding a plant> component:> > > - The implementation of the IEA/ECBCS Annex 42 fuel cell cogeneration> > model as a plant component has been completed. This treats both> > PEMFC and SOFC devices.> > This plant component, a product of Annex 42 of the IEA's programme on Energy> Conservation in Buildings and Community Systems Programme, can be used to> simulate the performance of fuel-cell-based small-scale cogeneration (aka> micro-cogeneration or micro-CHP) embedded within buildings. Three of the> enclosed papers describe the theory, calibation, and validation of the model> while the fourth demonstrates its use to assess the performance cogeneration> devices within residential buildings.> > Regards,> - Ian> -------------- next part --------------> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...> Name: SSB (2006).pdf> Type: application/pdf> Size: 112757 bytes> Desc: not available> Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20071113/b49c4557/attachment.pdf > -------------- next part --------------> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...> Name: JHVAC&R (2006).pdf> Type: application/pdf> Size: 1956864 bytes> Desc: not available> Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20071113/b49c4557/attachment-0001.pdf > -------------- next part --------------> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...> Name: BS2007 paper on SOFC and SE performance assessment.pdf> Type: application/pdf> Size: 212575 bytes> Desc: not available> Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20071113/b49c4557/attachment-0002.pdf > -------------- next part --------------> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...> Name: p232v2.pdf> Type: application/pdf> Size: 744539 bytes> Desc: not available> Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20071113/b49c4557/attachment-0003.pdf > > ------------------------------> > _______________________________________________> esp-r mailing list> esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk> http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r> > End of esp-r Digest, Vol 16, Issue 14> ************************************* _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live Spaces ???????? http://miaomiaogarden2007.spaces.live.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20071114/79d8baf1/attachment.html From esprfans at hotmail.com Wed Nov 14 02:25:23 2007 From: esprfans at hotmail.com (Leepaul) Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 10:25:23 +0800 Subject: [esp-r] Re: esp-r Digest, Vol 16, Issue 14 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, all, How to use tuterial? I press tuterial button, the system tell me"browse, it will take a few minutes", I wait for a long time, but no response. why? thanks. Leepaul > From: esp-r-request at lists.strath.ac.uk> Subject: esp-r Digest, Vol 16, Issue 14> To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk> Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 20:58:25 +0000> > Send esp-r mailing list submissions to> esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit> http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to> esp-r-request at lists.strath.ac.uk> > You can reach the person managing the list at> esp-r-owner at lists.strath.ac.uk> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific> than "Re: Contents of esp-r digest..."> > > Today's Topics:> > 1. (no subject) (Ian Beausoleil-Morrison)> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------> > Message: 1> Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 08:09:54 -0500> From: "Ian Beausoleil-Morrison" > Subject: [esp-r] (no subject)> To: "ESP-r mailing list" > Message-ID: <002501c825f6$7be09f00$73a1dd00$@carleton.ca>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"> > ESP-r users and developers,> > Last week's ESP-r release included the following note regarding a plant> component:> > > - The implementation of the IEA/ECBCS Annex 42 fuel cell cogeneration> > model as a plant component has been completed. This treats both> > PEMFC and SOFC devices.> > This plant component, a product of Annex 42 of the IEA's programme on Energy> Conservation in Buildings and Community Systems Programme, can be used to> simulate the performance of fuel-cell-based small-scale cogeneration (aka> micro-cogeneration or micro-CHP) embedded within buildings. Three of the> enclosed papers describe the theory, calibation, and validation of the model> while the fourth demonstrates its use to assess the performance cogeneration> devices within residential buildings.> > Regards,> - Ian> -------------- next part --------------> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...> Name: SSB (2006).pdf> Type: application/pdf> Size: 112757 bytes> Desc: not available> Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20071113/b49c4557/attachment.pdf > -------------- next part --------------> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...> Name: JHVAC&R (2006).pdf> Type: application/pdf> Size: 1956864 bytes> Desc: not available> Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20071113/b49c4557/attachment-0001.pdf > -------------- next part --------------> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...> Name: BS2007 paper on SOFC and SE performance assessment.pdf> Type: application/pdf> Size: 212575 bytes> Desc: not available> Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20071113/b49c4557/attachment-0002.pdf > -------------- next part --------------> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...> Name: p232v2.pdf> Type: application/pdf> Size: 744539 bytes> Desc: not available> Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20071113/b49c4557/attachment-0003.pdf > > ------------------------------> > _______________________________________________> esp-r mailing list> esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk> http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r> > End of esp-r Digest, Vol 16, Issue 14> ************************************* _________________________________________________________________ MSN ???????????????????? http://cn.msn.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20071114/72a9cec5/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Wed Nov 14 10:19:23 2007 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand (clcv10)) Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 10:19:23 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: esp-r Digest, Vol 16, Issue 14 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: A question about the tutorial button.... ::How to use tuterial? I press tuterial button, the system tell me"browse, it will take a few ::minutes", I wait for a long time, but no response. why? I suspect that most of us have forgotten that there is a 'tutorial' button. Its intent is to start a web browser pointing at the ESRU web pages. It is likely that your PC is using a different web browser. We should probably remove that button and replace it with a pop-up message that just states the address of the web site to go to. The ESRU web site includes both exercises that go with the ESP-r cookbook and some on-line exercises for use in classroom exercises. -ESRU -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20071114/7737db19/attachment.html From lswan at dal.ca Wed Nov 14 19:47:03 2007 From: lswan at dal.ca (Lukas Swan (Dal)) Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 15:47:03 -0400 Subject: [esp-r] *.fcl file inclusion Message-ID: <047901c826f7$23f78220$8d66b18e@DHSE4> Hello: The IEA Annex 42 website lists *.fcl file which contain appliance and lighting data. http://cogen-sim.net/index.php?pg=datafiles It seems to indicate that this file type, and thus the load profile, may be imported or used in ESP-r. I cannot find (using search) any description of this on the internet, cookbook, or user manual. Could someone please direct me as to how to implement this load profile? Thanks Lukas Swan Dalhousie University, Nova Scotia, Canada -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20071114/974b5ccd/attachment.html From AFerguso at NRCan.gc.ca Wed Nov 14 20:12:18 2007 From: AFerguso at NRCan.gc.ca (Ferguson, Alex) Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 15:12:18 -0500 Subject: [esp-r] Re: *.fcl file inclusion In-Reply-To: <047901c826f7$23f78220$8d66b18e@DHSE4> References: <047901c826f7$23f78220$8d66b18e@DHSE4> Message-ID: Hi Lukas, You can impose the .fcl file using one of 2 methods: - Using the prj interface, you can add a "non-hvac electric loads" component to an electrical network, and add the path to your fcl file in the component's text-input field. This will impose the load onto the electric network. - Alternatively, you can manually add an "*fcl " tag to the .cfg file. This will make the electric load data available to certian plant component models (e.g., the SOFC and PEMFC models), but it will be unaccessable in the rest of ESP-r. I recommend the first approach. - Alex Alex Ferguson Sustainable Buildings and Communities (Housing Group) CANMET Energy Technology Centre Natural Resources Canada P:+1 613 995 3294 F:+1 613 996 9909 Alex.Ferguson at nrcan.gc.ca ________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Lukas Swan (Dal) Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2007 14:47 To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] *.fcl file inclusion Hello: The IEA Annex 42 website lists *.fcl file which contain appliance and lighting data. http://cogen-sim.net/index.php?pg=datafiles It seems to indicate that this file type, and thus the load profile, may be imported or used in ESP-r. I cannot find (using search) any description of this on the internet, cookbook, or user manual. Could someone please direct me as to how to implement this load profile? Thanks Lukas Swan Dalhousie University, Nova Scotia, Canada -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20071114/eb2cf20f/attachment-0001.html From David.Tang at owenscorning.com Fri Nov 16 04:33:22 2007 From: David.Tang at owenscorning.com (Tang, David) Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 12:33:22 +0800 Subject: [esp-r] Please explain condensation report References: Message-ID: <8E334BEBBF31D54B9989B206FB4A6D0902F7F921@shos6101.ap.corp.owenscorning.com> Hi, I had the following report from res 'Enquire about/Surface condensation' Any one can explain the meaning of the text? --------------------------------------------- Lib: bld_simple.res: Results for bld_simple Period: Mon-09-Jan at 00h15(1967) to Sun-15-Jan at 23h45(1967) : sim at 30m, output at 30m Summary condensation report for: reception Surface occurances hours south 60 30.00 east 61 30.50 passage 61 30.50 north 61 30.50 part_a 61 30.50 part_b 61 30.50 west 61 30.50 ceiling 76 38.00 floor 89 44.50 glz_s 90 45.00 door_p 95 47.50 door_a 100 50.00 door_w 100 50.00 east_glz 92 46.00 Total occurances & hours in reception 106 53.00 ----------------------------------------------------- And where and how do '106 53.00' come from? Regards, David Tang Chief Engineer, Energy Solutions Owens Corning T: +86 21 6101 9587; F: +86 21 6101 9588; m: +86 13817249419 The information contained in this communication and its attachment(s) is intended only for the use of the individual to whom it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential, or exempt from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify postmaster at owenscorning.com and delete the communication without retaining any copies. Thank you. Translations available: http://www.owenscorning.com/emailfooter.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20071116/86404ae9/attachment.html From esprfans at hotmail.com Fri Nov 16 14:10:54 2007 From: esprfans at hotmail.com (Leepaul) Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 22:10:54 +0800 Subject: [esp-r] questions? convection calculation? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: hi,all, when should I carry out the convection heat transfer? thank you Leepaul CC: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.ukFrom: jon at esru.strath.ac.ukSubject: Re: [esp-r] Re: esp-r Digest, Vol 16, Issue 14Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 10:19:23 +0000To: esprfans at hotmail.com A question about the tutorial button.... ::How to use tuterial? I press tuterial button, the system tell me"browse, it will take a few ::minutes", I wait for a long time, but no response. why? I suspect that most of us have forgotten that there is a 'tutorial' button. Its intent is to start a web browser pointing at the ESRU web pages. It is likely that your PC is using a different web browser. We should probably remove that button and replace it with a pop-up message that just states the address of the web site to go to. The ESRU web site includes both exercises that go with the ESP-r cookbook and some on-line exercises for use in classroom exercises. -ESRU _________________________________________________________________ ? Live Search ??????? http://www.live.com/?searchOnly=true -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20071116/00c1c282/attachment.html From abdul.mahmood at strath.ac.uk Fri Nov 16 16:55:23 2007 From: abdul.mahmood at strath.ac.uk (Abdul Rahim Bin Mahmood) Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 16:55:23 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Please explain condensation report In-Reply-To: <8E334BEBBF31D54B9989B206FB4A6D0902F7F921@shos6101.ap.corp.owenscorning.com> References: <8E334BEBBF31D54B9989B206FB4A6D0902F7F921@shos6101.ap.corp.owenscorning.com> Message-ID: <200711161655.23395.abdul.mahmood@strath.ac.uk> Hi David, This result set describes the number of times surface condensation occurs on each surface. In each time-step, the program indicates surface condensation occurrence if the surface temperature is lower than the internal air dew-point temperature. For example, if the time-step is 30 mins and there is surface condensation occurring for 4 hours, then the report will indicate that surface condensation occurs 8 times. The number of hours of occurrence is also reported (4 in this example). Total occurrence is the number of times that surface condensation occurs within that zone. If condensation occurs at a number of surfaces at the same time, the report will only count it as one occurrence. Regards, Abdul Mahmood On Friday 16 November 2007 04:33:22 Tang, David wrote: > Hi, > > I had the following report from res 'Enquire about/Surface condensation' > > Any one can explain the meaning of the text? > > --------------------------------------------- > Lib: bld_simple.res: Results for bld_simple > Period: Mon-09-Jan at 00h15(1967) to Sun-15-Jan at 23h45(1967) : sim at 30m, > output at 30m Summary condensation report for: reception > Surface occurances hours > south 60 30.00 > east 61 30.50 > passage 61 30.50 > north 61 30.50 > part_a 61 30.50 > part_b 61 30.50 > west 61 30.50 > ceiling 76 38.00 > floor 89 44.50 > glz_s 90 45.00 > door_p 95 47.50 > door_a 100 50.00 > door_w 100 50.00 > east_glz 92 46.00 > Total occurances & hours in reception 106 53.00 > ----------------------------------------------------- > > And where and how do '106 53.00' come from? > > > Regards, > > David Tang > Chief Engineer, Energy Solutions > Owens Corning > T: +86 21 6101 9587; F: +86 21 6101 9588; m: +86 13817249419 From esprfans at hotmail.com Sun Nov 18 01:30:21 2007 From: esprfans at hotmail.com (Leepaul) Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 09:30:21 +0800 Subject: [esp-r] cookbook page40-45 is hard to read and understand Message-ID: Hi, all, cookbook page40-45 is hard to read and understand. even though I read is many times, I don't know how to create a plant networks yet. am I right? Leepaul _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live Photo gallery ????????????????????????????? http://get.live.cn/product/photo.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20071118/c4680a92/attachment.html From esprfans at hotmail.com Mon Nov 19 09:42:21 2007 From: esprfans at hotmail.com (Leepaul) Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 17:42:21 +0800 Subject: [esp-r] why no response when i press any butoon in "model report panel" Message-ID: Dear,all why no response when i press any butoon in "model report panel" thanks Leepaul _________________________________________________________________ ????Windows Live ???????????? http://get.live.cn -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20071119/98d0edf4/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Mon Nov 19 10:24:02 2007 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand (clcv10)) Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 10:24:02 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: cookbook page40-45 is hard to read and understand In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: A recent comment about generating plant system models.... > > cookbook page40-45 is hard to read and understand. even though I > read is many times, I don't know how to create a plant networks yet. > > am I right? You are correct - creating plant networks can be a challenge. It is also a challenge how to write instructions for creating plant networks. There probably should be several hundred pages devoted to plant networks in the cookbook. Learning how to do this is much easier if you can talk to and/or work with a person who has already defined and successfully used plant networks. -ESRU -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20071119/186ebfac/attachment.html From paul at esru.strath.ac.uk Tue Nov 20 11:50:40 2007 From: paul at esru.strath.ac.uk (paul strachan) Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 11:50:40 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] ESP-r introductory training course Message-ID: <4742CA10.10601@esru.strath.ac.uk> The next introductory course in Glasgow will be held from 4th to 6th February next year. This will be a 3-day course, to give plenty of time for participants to create and analyse models with reasonably complex airflow and control options. It should also be possible to accommodate those with a specific building design project in mind. Details can be found on the ESRU website www.esru.strath.ac.uk Regards ESRU From f.duran.04 at cantabgold.net Tue Nov 20 11:33:31 2007 From: f.duran.04 at cantabgold.net (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Felipe_Dur=E1n?=) Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 08:33:31 -0300 Subject: [esp-r] Thermal mass Message-ID: <932E43F6-FC7E-4756-8C26-904A306496AC@cantabgold.net> Dear all, I am currently working on the analysis of an open plan office building with columns in a 8x8 mt. grid. How can make esp-r take into account the thermal mass of those columns? Is it possible to define a sort of blocks or zones that represent the columns into the zone? Thanks in advance, Felipe Duran Palma Arquitecto PUC, MPhil. U. Cambridge. DA4 ARQUITECTOS LTDA. Obispo Donoso 5 oficina 62-Providencia T(562) 3431868 - C(56) 92192551 fduran at cantab.net www.da4.cl Nota: Los tildes han sido omitidos intencionalmente. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20071120/c13009de/attachment.html From aizaz.a.samuel at strath.ac.uk Tue Nov 20 12:23:49 2007 From: aizaz.a.samuel at strath.ac.uk (Aizaz Samuel) Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 12:23:49 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Thermal mass In-Reply-To: <932E43F6-FC7E-4756-8C26-904A306496AC@cantabgold.net> References: <932E43F6-FC7E-4756-8C26-904A306496AC@cantabgold.net> Message-ID: <200711201223.49414.aizaz.a.samuel@strath.ac.uk> You can either create back to back surfaces hanging in mid air within the zone or make columns hanging in mid air. As long as these surfaces are fully bounded (similar to fully bounded normal geometrical zones) you will not get a warning. -Aizaz On Tuesday 20 November 2007 11:33, Felipe Dur?n wrote: > Dear all, > > I am currently working on the analysis of an open plan office building with > columns in a 8x8 mt. grid. How can make esp-r take into account the thermal > mass of those columns? Is it possible to define a sort of blocks or zones > that represent the columns into the zone? > > Thanks in advance, > > > Felipe Duran Palma > Arquitecto PUC, MPhil. U. Cambridge. > > DA4 ARQUITECTOS LTDA. > Obispo Donoso 5 oficina 62-Providencia > T(562) 3431868 - C(56) 92192551 > fduran at cantab.net > www.da4.cl > > Nota: Los tildes han sido omitidos intencionalmente. From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Tue Nov 20 18:23:13 2007 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand (clcv10)) Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 18:23:13 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Thermal mass In-Reply-To: <932E43F6-FC7E-4756-8C26-904A306496AC@cantabgold.net> References: <932E43F6-FC7E-4756-8C26-904A306496AC@cantabgold.net> Message-ID: <888F8878-E36D-4F3F-8590-E6684BE37426@esru.strath.ac.uk> A recent question about mass in rooms.... There is an exemplar model which includes internal mass within a zone for a desk near a window as well as for a filing cabinet. Look for the 'celluar model with furniture' in the list of exemplars. Note: the filing cabinet includes an additional representation as a solar obstruction block so that its full bulk is show for understanding by a client as well as for export to visual software such as radiance. -ESRU From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Wed Nov 21 08:37:22 2007 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand (clcv10)) Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 08:37:22 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] about creating back-to-back surfaces in esp-r Message-ID: <03D63258-9FB8-4924-818D-26B7DF82523E@esru.strath.ac.uk> A follow-up to recent comments on creating internal mass in zones... > > Where do I create a back to back surface? How do I make columns > hanging in the mid air? > In the geometry menu there is a item to manage surface edges and in that item the add surface choice has an option to create either a vertical or horizontal rectangle (you provide the origin of the rectangle and its two dimensions). An approach adopted by a number of users is to ensure that internal mass does not touch or penetrate the bounding surfaces of the room and does not share vertices with the bounding surfaces of the room. Once the new surface has been added, attribute it with a construction which represents the mass (see below) and give it a name that reminds you that it is internal mass. The next step is to use the add surface function a 2nd time but this time choose the copy surface in this zone option. Select the new rectangle you just created as the surface you want to copy and then choose the invert edges option. This will create the opposite face of the internal mass. The last step is to attribute the boundary conditions of each of these new surfaces. There are two schools of thought: - the traditional approach is to assign an adiabetic type to both surface. Thus they act as a thermal sponge, but no heat crosses from one face to the other. In this approach the constructions used should each represent half the thickness of the actual mass of the entity. - an alternative approach is to treat the two surfaces as partitions (i.e. connect each to the other). This approach allows heat to flow from the front to the back of the surface as well as acting as thermal mass. For this to work well use a shorter timestep. If internal mass has been added to a room it interacts just as any other surface in terms of longwave and shortwave radiation and convection. Consider whether radiation viewfactors should be calculated and also whether you should include a shading/insolation analysis so that sunlight falling on the mass at specific times is properly recorded. -ESRU From f.duran.04 at cantabgold.net Thu Nov 22 03:30:04 2007 From: f.duran.04 at cantabgold.net (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Felipe_Dur=E1n?=) Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2007 00:30:04 -0300 Subject: [esp-r] MZELWE Message-ID: <0D493C14-3AE8-436E-BB8B-34B1AF699204@cantabgold.net> Dear all, I have ran a simulation and a message has been given: "MZELWE: a longwave flux of -503.3 Watts has been calculated for Surf-5:zona_sur @ increment 227 This is considered high and a correlation will be used." What does it means?. I am attaching the whole message. Thank you very much Felipe Duran ESP-r Simulator: Version 10.8 of April 2007. Copyright 2001-7 Energy Systems Research Unit, University of Strathclyde, Glasgow, Scotland. homedrive is C: homepath is \Documents and Settings\Felipe Duran Palma the input file is: C:\Esru\Models\prueba_thermal_mass\cfg \prueba_thermal_mass.cfg A systems and building simulation start-up period of 12 days has been specified. Climate data: SANT: 1987 Library file: C:/esru/models/resultados Simulation run with configuration file: C:\Esru\Models\prueba_thermal_mass\cfg\prueba_thermal_mass.cfg Climate file : C:/esru/esp-r/climate/santiago Configuration file : prueba_thermal_mass.cfg Configuration name : 2 oficinas con masa termica Control strategy : free-floating Zone save option : 2 (Moderate) No. of warnings : 0 Simulation period : 365 day(s) period: Thu-01-Jan at 01h00 - Thu-31-Dec at 24h00 Start-up period : 12 day(s) Zone time-steps : 1 / hr ( 60.00 min. intervals saved at each timestep) Number of zones : 2 Zone-time increments : 18096 Zone results db size : 13.5 Mbytes Time-step controller : Not active Simulation has now commenced. MZELWE: a longwave flux of -503.3 Watts has been calculated for Surf-5:zona_sur @ increment 227 This is considered high and a correlation will be used. Hi I have subscribed to the mailing list of ESP-r and want to post to the list. With Best Regards, Pranav Godbole -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20071122/9fa1e101/attachment.html From paul at esru.strath.ac.uk Fri Nov 23 11:16:56 2007 From: paul at esru.strath.ac.uk (paul strachan) Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2007 11:16:56 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: MZELWE Message-ID: <4746B6A8.9060600@esru.strath.ac.uk> Dear Felipe, It means the calculated external longwave flux exceeds a preset value at the indicated timestep during the simulation. At present this limit is set at 495W/m2 (the warning message units should read W/m2, not W). The correlation used in such circumstances is that the longwave flux is a function of windspeed and surface-to-air temperature difference: ( 3.0 +1.7 V) * (delta-T). The warning message is commonly generated at times where there is a combination of unusually high external surface temperature, high surface emissivity and low calculated sky temperature. Regards Paul > Dear all, > > I have ran a simulation and a message has been given: "MZELWE: > a longwave flux of -503.3 Watts has been calculated for > Surf-5:zona_sur @ increment 227 This is considered high and a > correlation will be used." > What does it means?. I am attaching the whole message. > > Thank you very much > > Felipe Duran -- *************************************************************** Dr P A Strachan email: paul at esru.strath.ac.uk ESRU, Dept. of Mechanical Eng. phone: +44 141 548 2041 University of Strathclyde fax: +44 141 552 5105 Glasgow G1 1XJ, UK http://www.esru.strath.ac.uk *************************************************************** From Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch Fri Nov 23 11:43:54 2007 From: Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch (Geissler Achim) Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2007 12:43:54 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: MZELWE References: <4746B6A8.9060600@esru.strath.ac.uk> Message-ID: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C290CBD@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Dear Paul, really? Wow. So in the simulation the approx. 500 W/m2 are truncated to something fairly arbitrary and probably in the range of 100 - 250 W/m2 (not-to-much wind and DT of 20 to 30 K)? The sky temperature is then discounted? Seems a bit out of line for ESP-r to substitute by something that discounts the physical process ... hmm. We have also had that message off and on, so next time we will need to take a closer look, it seems ... I had assumed the program substitutes a reasonable estimate (comparable to the "solar exceeds extraterrestrial constant" thing). Regards, Achim > -----Original Message----- > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r- > bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of paul strachan > Sent: Friday, November 23, 2007 12:17 PM > To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > Subject: [esp-r] Re: MZELWE > > Dear Felipe, > > It means the calculated external longwave flux exceeds a preset value at > the indicated timestep during the simulation. At present this limit is > set at 495W/m2 (the warning message units should read W/m2, not W). The > correlation used in such circumstances is that the longwave flux is a > function of windspeed and surface-to-air temperature difference: ( 3.0 > +1.7 V) * (delta-T). > > The warning message is commonly generated at times where there is a > combination of unusually high external surface temperature, high surface > emissivity and low calculated sky temperature. > > Regards > Paul > > > > Dear all, > > > > I have ran a simulation and a message has been given: "MZELWE: > > a longwave flux of -503.3 Watts has been calculated for > > Surf-5:zona_sur @ increment 227 This is considered high and a > > correlation will be used." > > What does it means?. I am attaching the whole message. > > > > Thank you very much > > > > Felipe Duran > > -- > *************************************************************** > Dr P A Strachan email: paul at esru.strath.ac.uk > ESRU, Dept. of Mechanical Eng. phone: +44 141 548 2041 > University of Strathclyde fax: +44 141 552 5105 > Glasgow G1 1XJ, UK http://www.esru.strath.ac.uk > *************************************************************** > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From p.haugaard at esbensen.dk Fri Nov 23 12:53:35 2007 From: p.haugaard at esbensen.dk (Per Haugaard) Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2007 13:53:35 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: release of ESP-r version 11.4 Message-ID: <76BF3F55DD7DE345B299344CCAEB764073EF08@KBH10.sme.local> Dear users of ESP-r, Its been several years since I last used and installed ESP-r. At that time there were no need to install a Central Subversion repository. I have installed Ubuntu 7.10 and there are according to http://subversion.tigris.org/project_packages.html no Subversion for this linux-based operating system. What subversion for which operating system do I install to minimize risk for upcoming problems (we do not need that) and do I thereafter use the Central Subversion repository to download and instal ESP-r 11.4 or how do these programs work together? Looking forward for your input and thanks in advance. Med venlig hilsen / Best regards Per Haugaard ____________________________ Per Haugaard M.Sc. Civil Engineering, Building & Energy. Esbensen Consulting Engineers A/S Sukkertoppen - Copenhagen Carl Jacobsens Vej 25D DK-2500 Valby, DENMARK Tel.: +45 33 26 73 00 (Switchboard) Tel.: +45 33 26 73 03 (Direct) Fax: +45 33 26 73 01 E-mail: p.haugaard at esbensen.dk http://www.esbensen.dk _____________________________ ---- Original Message ---- From: Ian Beausoleil-Morrison To: ESP-r mailing list Sent: Friday, November 9, 2007 2:31:12 PM Subject: [esp-r] release of ESP-r version 11.4 Dear ESP-r users and developers, Version 11.4 of the ESP-r system is now available. A summary of the changes and new features included in this release is given at the bottom of this e-mail. The source code may be accessed via the ESP-r Central Subversion repository. To do this, you must first install a Subversion client on your system. Free clients are available at http://subversion.tigris.org/project_packages.html. Once you have installed the Subversion client you can download the source code for version 11.4 of ESP-r anonymously using the following command: svn checkout https://esp-r.net/espr/esp-r/trunk OR svn checkout http://esp-r.net/espr/esp-r/trunk If you previously downloaded version 11.1, 11.2, or 11.3 with the above command, then you do not have to do a full download of version 11.4. Rather, you can update the source code by executing the following command from your "trunk" directory: svn update (ESP-r developers who wish to make source code contributions to ESP-r should contact Alex Ferguson at afersugo at nrcan.gc.ca who can configure an account for you on ESP-r Central. Further information on ESP-r Central for developers is available on the ESRU web site.) ESP-r source code is available exclusively through ESP-r Central. However, ESRU will continue to produce and post pre-compiled versions for specific operating environments on its web site. These binary versions will generally be made available within a few days of a source code release and will be announced to this e-mail list. Release notes will also continue to be posted on the ESRU web site. Regards, - Ian -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20071123/53b9dfd2/attachment.html From aizaz.a.samuel at strath.ac.uk Fri Nov 23 15:50:17 2007 From: aizaz.a.samuel at strath.ac.uk (Aizaz Samuel) Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2007 15:50:17 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: release of ESP-r version 11.4 In-Reply-To: <76BF3F55DD7DE345B299344CCAEB764073EF08@KBH10.sme.local> References: <76BF3F55DD7DE345B299344CCAEB764073EF08@KBH10.sme.local> Message-ID: <200711231550.17251.aizaz.a.samuel@strath.ac.uk> How I did it for Ubuntu 7.4 is as follows. Log in as super user Make sure you are online (ping etc.) Go to system > administration > synaptic package manager Search for "subversion" and install it (apply as the OS calls it) Once subversion is installed issue the following command from a command line svn checkout https://esp-r.net/espr/esp-r/trunk [or just http instead of https] Install ESP-r using the install script. Before I could do that however I had to install development headers for C, C++, Fortran in order to install ESP-r. A useful bit of software (that includes many important libraries) to install from synaptic manager is "build essential". Hope that helps. -Aizaz On Friday 23 November 2007 12:53, Per Haugaard wrote: > Dear users of ESP-r, > > Its been several years since I last used and installed ESP-r. At that time > there were no need to install a Central Subversion repository. I have > installed Ubuntu 7.10 and there are according to > http://subversion.tigris.org/project_packages.html no Subversion for this > linux-based operating system. What subversion for which operating system do > I install to minimize risk for upcoming problems (we do not need that) and > do I thereafter use the Central Subversion repository to download and > instal ESP-r 11.4 or how do these programs work together? > > Looking forward for your input and thanks in advance. > > > > Med venlig hilsen / Best regards > > Per Haugaard > ____________________________ > > Per Haugaard > M.Sc. Civil Engineering, Building & Energy. > > Esbensen Consulting Engineers A/S > Sukkertoppen - Copenhagen > Carl Jacobsens Vej 25D > DK-2500 Valby, DENMARK > > Tel.: +45 33 26 73 00 (Switchboard) > Tel.: +45 33 26 73 03 (Direct) > Fax: +45 33 26 73 01 > E-mail: p.haugaard at esbensen.dk > http://www.esbensen.dk > > _____________________________ > > ---- Original Message ---- > From: Ian Beausoleil-Morrison > To: ESP-r mailing list > Sent: Friday, November 9, 2007 2:31:12 PM > Subject: [esp-r] release of ESP-r version 11.4 > > Dear ESP-r users and developers, > > Version 11.4 of the ESP-r system is now available. A summary of the > changes and new features included in this release is given at the bottom of > this e-mail. > > The source code may be accessed via the ESP-r Central Subversion > repository. To do this, you must first install a Subversion client on your > system. Free clients are available at > http://subversion.tigris.org/project_packages.html. > > Once you have installed the Subversion client you can download the source > code for version 11.4 of ESP-r anonymously using the following command: > svn checkout https://esp-r.net/espr/esp-r/trunk > OR > svn checkout http://esp-r.net/espr/esp-r/trunk > > If you previously downloaded version 11.1, 11.2, or 11.3 with the above > command, then you do not have to do a full download of version 11.4. > Rather, you can update the source code by executing the following command > from your "trunk" directory: > svn update > > (ESP-r developers who wish to make source code contributions to ESP-r > should contact Alex Ferguson at > afersugo at nrcan.gc.ca who can configure an > account for you on ESP-r Central. Further information on ESP-r Central for > developers is available on the ESRU web site.) > > ESP-r source code is available exclusively through ESP-r Central. > However, ESRU will continue to produce and post pre-compiled versions for > specific operating environments on its web site. These binary versions > will generally be made available within a few days of a source code release > and will be announced to this e-mail list. Release notes will also > continue to be posted on the ESRU web site. > > Regards, > - Ian From PLopez at NRCan.gc.ca Fri Nov 23 15:47:04 2007 From: PLopez at NRCan.gc.ca (Lopez, Phylroy) Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2007 10:47:04 -0500 Subject: [esp-r] Re: release of ESP-r version 11.4 References: <76BF3F55DD7DE345B299344CCAEB764073EF08@KBH10.sme.local> Message-ID: Ubuntu uses the "synaptic package manager" to install new software on your linux system. Using this tool you can search for a ubuntu package of subversion. It takes care of finding the most up to date version and installing it on your system, as well as installing any dependancies. Refer to the ubuntu help docs on adding software. Phylroy -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk on behalf of Per Haugaard Sent: Fri 11/23/2007 7:53 AM To: esp-r at strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Re: release of ESP-r version 11.4 Dear users of ESP-r, Its been several years since I last used and installed ESP-r. At that time there were no need to install a Central Subversion repository. I have installed Ubuntu 7.10 and there are according to http://subversion.tigris.org/project_packages.html no Subversion for this linux-based operating system. What subversion for which operating system do I install to minimize risk for upcoming problems (we do not need that) and do I thereafter use the Central Subversion repository to download and instal ESP-r 11.4 or how do these programs work together? Looking forward for your input and thanks in advance. Med venlig hilsen / Best regards Per Haugaard ____________________________ Per Haugaard M.Sc. Civil Engineering, Building & Energy. Esbensen Consulting Engineers A/S Sukkertoppen - Copenhagen Carl Jacobsens Vej 25D DK-2500 Valby, DENMARK Tel.: +45 33 26 73 00 (Switchboard) Tel.: +45 33 26 73 03 (Direct) Fax: +45 33 26 73 01 E-mail: p.haugaard at esbensen.dk http://www.esbensen.dk _____________________________ ---- Original Message ---- From: Ian Beausoleil-Morrison To: ESP-r mailing list Sent: Friday, November 9, 2007 2:31:12 PM Subject: [esp-r] release of ESP-r version 11.4 Dear ESP-r users and developers, Version 11.4 of the ESP-r system is now available. A summary of the changes and new features included in this release is given at the bottom of this e-mail. The source code may be accessed via the ESP-r Central Subversion repository. To do this, you must first install a Subversion client on your system. Free clients are available at http://subversion.tigris.org/project_packages.html. Once you have installed the Subversion client you can download the source code for version 11.4 of ESP-r anonymously using the following command: svn checkout https://esp-r.net/espr/esp-r/trunk OR svn checkout http://esp-r.net/espr/esp-r/trunk If you previously downloaded version 11.1, 11.2, or 11.3 with the above command, then you do not have to do a full download of version 11.4. Rather, you can update the source code by executing the following command from your "trunk" directory: svn update (ESP-r developers who wish to make source code contributions to ESP-r should contact Alex Ferguson at afersugo at nrcan.gc.ca who can configure an account for you on ESP-r Central. Further information on ESP-r Central for developers is available on the ESRU web site.) ESP-r source code is available exclusively through ESP-r Central. However, ESRU will continue to produce and post pre-compiled versions for specific operating environments on its web site. These binary versions will generally be made available within a few days of a source code release and will be announced to this e-mail list. Release notes will also continue to be posted on the ESRU web site. Regards, - Ian From dlithgow at gmail.com Sun Nov 25 08:07:38 2007 From: dlithgow at gmail.com (Duncan Lithgow) Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 09:07:38 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: release of ESP-r version 11.4 In-Reply-To: <76BF3F55DD7DE345B299344CCAEB764073EF08@KBH10.sme.local> References: <76BF3F55DD7DE345B299344CCAEB764073EF08@KBH10.sme.local> Message-ID: <1195978058.9074.2.camel@ubuntu> On Fri, 2007-11-23 at 13:53 +0100, Per Haugaard wrote: > Dear users of ESP-r, > > Its been several years since I last used and installed ESP-r. At that > time there were no need to install a Central Subversion repository. I > have installed Ubuntu 7.10 and there are according to > http://subversion.tigris.org/project_packages.html no Subversion for > this linux-based operating system. What subversion for which operating > system do I install to minimize risk for upcoming problems (we do not > need that) and do I thereafter use the Central Subversion repository > to download and instal ESP-r 11.4 or how do these programs work > together? Subversion is a package used for managing unstable development software, you'd only want that if ESP-r uses the same system and you want to run the development version. If that's what you want then type sudo apt-get install subversion and you'll be ready. Venlig Hilsen/ regards Duncan From pranav.godbole at gmail.com Mon Nov 26 14:29:22 2007 From: pranav.godbole at gmail.com (Pranav Godbole) Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 08:29:22 -0600 Subject: [esp-r] Re: release of ESP-r version 11.4 In-Reply-To: <76BF3F55DD7DE345B299344CCAEB764073EF08@KBH10.sme.local> References: <76BF3F55DD7DE345B299344CCAEB764073EF08@KBH10.sme.local> Message-ID: <84a2df290711260629y1880f0a3pdf088d73ce6a19ea@mail.gmail.com> Hi I am a new user of ESP-r I am getting following error after opening my cfg file in ESP-r. *Could not find ..\nets\TulsaBuilding.afn* Could you please tell me where have I gone wrong? With Best Regards, Pranav Godbole On Nov 23, 2007 6:53 AM, Per Haugaard wrote: > Dear users of ESP-r, > > Its been several years since I last used and installed ESP-r. At that time > there were no need to install a Central Subversion repository. I have > installed Ubuntu 7.10 and there are according to > http://subversion.tigris.org/project_packages.html no Subversion for this > linux-based operating system. What subversion for which operating system do > I install to minimize risk for upcoming problems (we do not need that) and > do I thereafter use the Central Subversion repository to download and instal > ESP-r 11.4 or how do these programs work together? > > Looking forward for your input and thanks in advance. > > > > > > > > Med venlig hilsen / Best regards > > > > Per Haugaard > > ____________________________ > > > > Per Haugaard > > M.Sc. Civil Engineering, Building & Energy. > > > > Esbensen Consulting Engineers A/S > Sukkertoppen - Copenhagen > Carl Jacobsens Vej 25D > DK-2500 Valby, DENMARK > > > > Tel.: +45 33 26 73 00 (Switchboard) > > Tel.: +45 33 26 73 03 (Direct) > > Fax: +45 33 26 73 01 > > E-mail: p.haugaard at esbensen.dk > > http://www.esbensen.dk > > > > _____________________________ > > > > ---- Original Message ---- > From: Ian Beausoleil-Morrison > To: ESP-r mailing list > Sent: Friday, November 9, 2007 2:31:12 PM > Subject: [esp-r] release of ESP-r version 11.4 > > Dear ESP-r users and developers, > > Version 11.4 of the ESP-r system is now available. A summary of the > changes > and new features included in this release is given at the bottom of this > e-mail. > > The source code may be accessed via the ESP-r Central Subversion > repository. > To do this, you must first install a Subversion client on your system. > Free > clients are available at > http://subversion.tigris.org/project_packages.html. > > Once you have installed the Subversion client you can download the source > code for version 11.4 of ESP-r anonymously using the following command: > svn checkout https://esp-r.net/espr/esp-r/trunk > OR > svn checkout http://esp-r.net/espr/esp-r/trunk > > If you previously downloaded version 11.1, 11.2, or 11.3 with the above > command, then you do not have to do a full download of version 11.4. > Rather, you can update the source code by executing the following command > from your "trunk" directory: > svn update > > (ESP-r developers who wish to make source code contributions to ESP-r > should > contact Alex Ferguson at afersugo at nrcan.gc.ca who can configure an account > for you on ESP-r Central. Further information on ESP-r Central for > developers is available on the ESRU web site.) > > ESP-r source code is available exclusively through ESP-r Central. > However, > ESRU will continue to produce and post pre-compiled versions for specific > operating environments on its web site. These binary versions will > generally be made available within a few days of a source code release and > will be announced to this e-mail list. Release notes will also continue > to > be posted on the ESRU web site. > > Regards, > - Ian > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20071126/16796f75/attachment.html From Gunter.Pueltz at MuellerBBM.de Mon Nov 26 15:42:27 2007 From: Gunter.Pueltz at MuellerBBM.de (Pueltz, Gunter) Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 16:42:27 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] storage of humidity within massiv components ? Message-ID: <2417729F3416D511A27E0090273A963B027877B2@smex01.mbbm.de> Dear ESRUs, I have to simulate historic rooms with a bit humid walls by ESP -r. Concerning humidity WITHIN the massiv components (not only at the internal surface) following questions: 1) Does ESP -r calculate the humidification + de-humidification of walls resp. the storage of humidity in the walls ? In the material database a vapour resistivity is defined for each material .... But does ESP-r model vapour diffusion within a multi-layer component ? 2) If there exists a humidity source - e.g. in the ground (groundwater or rain water, which raises upwards into the walls of my rooms) - how can such a humidity source be implemented WITHIN a multi-layer-component (e.g. a wall) ? Any idea or comment appreciated. Regards, Gunter -- Dr. Gunter P?ltz M?ller-BBM GmbH Robert-Koch-Stra?e 11 82152 Planegg Telefon +49 (0)89 85602 - 336 Telefax +49 (0)89 85602 - 111 http://www.MuellerBBM.de HRB M?nchen 86143 Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Bernd Gr?zinger, Dr. Edwin Schorer, Norbert Suritsch From AFerguso at NRCan.gc.ca Mon Nov 26 16:22:55 2007 From: AFerguso at NRCan.gc.ca (Ferguson, Alex) Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 11:22:55 -0500 Subject: [esp-r] Re: release of ESP-r version 11.4 In-Reply-To: <1195978058.9074.2.camel@ubuntu> References: <76BF3F55DD7DE345B299344CCAEB764073EF08@KBH10.sme.local> <1195978058.9074.2.camel@ubuntu> Message-ID: Elaborating on Duncan's comments, Subversion is now used to manage ESP-r source code. Subversion provides access to all recent and archived versions of ESP-r (since version 11.1), including stable "releases" and unstable "development copies". But you only need Subversion if you intend to modify esp-r source code and contribute your changes back to community. Ready-to-go installers are available on the ESRU website for 32-bit Linux, Cygwin, OS-X and Microsoft Windows systems (http://www.esru.strath.ac.uk/Downloads/downloads.htm). Using these installers is the fastest way to get ESP-r a release version of ESP-r up-and-running on your system. - Alex -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Duncan Lithgow Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 03:08 To: Per Haugaard Cc: esp-r at strath.ac.uk Subject: [esp-r] Re: release of ESP-r version 11.4 On Fri, 2007-11-23 at 13:53 +0100, Per Haugaard wrote: > Dear users of ESP-r, > > Its been several years since I last used and installed ESP-r. At that > time there were no need to install a Central Subversion repository. I > have installed Ubuntu 7.10 and there are according to > http://subversion.tigris.org/project_packages.html no Subversion for > this linux-based operating system. What subversion for which operating > system do I install to minimize risk for upcoming problems (we do not > need that) and do I thereafter use the Central Subversion repository > to download and instal ESP-r 11.4 or how do these programs work > together? Subversion is a package used for managing unstable development software, you'd only want that if ESP-r uses the same system and you want to run the development version. If that's what you want then type sudo apt-get install subversion and you'll be ready. Venlig Hilsen/ regards Duncan _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From driessea at queensu.ca Mon Nov 26 19:56:11 2007 From: driessea at queensu.ca (Anton Driesse) Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 14:56:11 -0500 Subject: [esp-r] Is this a bug? Message-ID: <474B24DB.8050803@queensu.ca> ****** FORTRAN RUN-TIME SYSTEM ****** Subscript out of range. Location: line 494 column 21 of 'pmatrx.F' Subscript number 1 has value 0 in array 'NPCDAT' From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Tue Nov 27 11:56:13 2007 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand (clcv10)) Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 11:56:13 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Is this a bug? In-Reply-To: <474B24DB.8050803@queensu.ca> References: <474B24DB.8050803@queensu.ca> Message-ID: <042892F7-FF6F-45C4-A09A-329E9B789467@esru.strath.ac.uk> A recent question: > > ****** FORTRAN RUN-TIME SYSTEM ****** > Subscript out of range. Location: line 494 column 21 of 'pmatrx.F' > Subscript number 1 has value 0 in array 'NPCDAT' > This is fortran shutting down because it has been asked to address a memory location that does not exist. And the message gives the location where this occurred in the code so it should be possible to look at the code and determine likely causes of the zero array value. And if running in a debugger one could also check what else was happening at that moment. -ESRU From jake.zwart at sympatico.ca Tue Nov 27 13:57:25 2007 From: jake.zwart at sympatico.ca (Jake Zwart) Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 08:57:25 -0500 Subject: [esp-r] Re: storage of humidity within massiv components ? In-Reply-To: <2417729F3416D511A27E0090273A963B027877B2@smex01.mbbm.de> Message-ID: Hi Gunter, I have been told that esp-r does not model moisture storage in walls which is an essential element of moisture calculation. Not sure about the vapour diffusion part. I have attached two papers that talk about moisture modeling in walls. I have tried the simpler steady state method within a spreadsheet and it is quite easily implemented. The other paper offers about a 5 year old review of simulation packages that may do the modeling that you require. I find the web site www.balancedsolutions.com quite useful for research in this area. I have cced the author of the papers, in case you have any direct questions. I wonder if there has been any discussion about implementing moisture transport and storage within walls in esp-r and what the interest would be. I think it would be quite useful. Jake Zwart -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk]On Behalf Of Pueltz, Gunter Sent: Monday, 26 November, 2007 10:42 To: 'esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk' Subject: [esp-r] storage of humidity within massiv components ? Dear ESRUs, I have to simulate historic rooms with a bit humid walls by ESP -r. Concerning humidity WITHIN the massiv components (not only at the internal surface) following questions: 1) Does ESP -r calculate the humidification + de-humidification of walls resp. the storage of humidity in the walls ? In the material database a vapour resistivity is defined for each material .... But does ESP-r model vapour diffusion within a multi-layer component ? 2) If there exists a humidity source - e.g. in the ground (groundwater or rain water, which raises upwards into the walls of my rooms) - how can such a humidity source be implemented WITHIN a multi-layer-component (e.g. a wall) ? Any idea or comment appreciated. Regards, Gunter -- Dr. Gunter P?ltz M?ller-BBM GmbH Robert-Koch-Stra?e 11 82152 Planegg Telefon +49 (0)89 85602 - 336 Telefax +49 (0)89 85602 - 111 http://www.MuellerBBM.de HRB M?nchen 86143 Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Bernd Gr?zinger, Dr. Edwin Schorer, Norbert Suritsch _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: ASHRAE Thermal8 Vapor Barriers.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 291482 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20071127/1d0ec676/attachment-0002.pdf -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: HAM Modeling Review.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 254561 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20071127/1d0ec676/attachment-0003.pdf From AFerguso at NRCan.gc.ca Tue Nov 27 12:22:03 2007 From: AFerguso at NRCan.gc.ca (Ferguson, Alex) Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 07:22:03 -0500 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Is this a bug? In-Reply-To: <474B24DB.8050803@queensu.ca> References: <474B24DB.8050803@queensu.ca> Message-ID: Hi Anton, As Jon mentioned, one of the models is has specified an array subscript out of the range in memory. It most likely is caused by a bug in one of the models; can you post a list of the models in your plant network, or cut-and-paste your plant network file into an email? - Alex -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Anton Driesse Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 14:56 To: esp-r list Subject: [esp-r] Is this a bug? ****** FORTRAN RUN-TIME SYSTEM ****** Subscript out of range. Location: line 494 column 21 of 'pmatrx.F' Subscript number 1 has value 0 in array 'NPCDAT' _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From driessea at queensu.ca Tue Nov 27 17:23:28 2007 From: driessea at queensu.ca (Anton Driesse) Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 12:23:28 -0500 Subject: [esp-r] Location of database files Message-ID: <474C5290.7070400@queensu.ca> Hi, Our shared esp-r installation is in /opt/espr-11.4 but I notice that prj often looks for databases in /usr/esru. Is there any way to have prj find the databases using an environment variable, symbolic link, or other means? Thanks, Anton From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Tue Nov 27 17:39:30 2007 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand (clcv10)) Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 17:39:30 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Location of database files In-Reply-To: <474C5290.7070400@queensu.ca> References: <474C5290.7070400@queensu.ca> Message-ID: Usually there is a notice during setup that users can create a link between the older traditional location of esp-r (/usr/esru) and the actual location of ESP-r e.g. /opt/espr-11.4 Become a user who has permission to write in /usr. Issue the following command: ln -s /opt/espr-11.4 /usr/esru then you will probably need to change the ownership of /usr/esru to match that of /opt/espr-11.4. For example chown esru /usr/esru chgrp users /usr/esru After this if a model is looking for /usr/esru/esp-r/databases it will actually find the files in /opt/espr-11.4/esp-r/databases. -ESRU From AFerguso at NRCan.gc.ca Tue Nov 27 17:58:11 2007 From: AFerguso at NRCan.gc.ca (Ferguson, Alex) Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 12:58:11 -0500 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Location of database files In-Reply-To: <474C5290.7070400@queensu.ca> References: <474C5290.7070400@queensu.ca> Message-ID: Hi Anton, ESP-r defines the default paths to the system databases using a file called 'default', which is located in the esp-r installation directory. If you're building ESP-r from source and have used the '-d' argument to specify the installation target (that is "./Install -d /opt/espr-11.4"), the installation script will customize this file to reflect your particular installation, and prj will use these files by default. And you can further alter the default file to suit your needs. In a handful of locations, ESP-r hardcodes default paths to /usr/esru, but these are typically well-off the beaten path. If you encounter such a case, let us know. The preceding paragraph only applies to installations compiled from an svn working copy. The ready-to-go installers on the ESRU website expect to be installed in /usr/esru, necessitating a symbolic link from /usr/esru to your installation folder. - Alex -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Anton Driesse Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 12:23 To: esp-r list Subject: [esp-r] Location of database files Hi, Our shared esp-r installation is in /opt/espr-11.4 but I notice that prj often looks for databases in /usr/esru. Is there any way to have prj find the databases using an environment variable, symbolic link, or other means? Thanks, Anton _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From pranav.godbole at gmail.com Tue Nov 27 17:08:20 2007 From: pranav.godbole at gmail.com (Pranav Godbole) Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 11:08:20 -0600 Subject: [esp-r] Climate Data Message-ID: <84a2df290711270908g350fba84le3d316c007f8c240@mail.gmail.com> Good Morning! I tried to convert an .epw file to ESP-r file for city of Tulsa I followed the three steps before importing .epw file. 1) changed line 1 from LOCATION,TULSA,OK,USA,TMY2-13968,723560,36.20,-95.90,-6.0,206.0 to LOCATION,TULSA,-,OK,USA,TMY2-13968,723560,36.20,-95.90,-6.0,206.0 2) Changed line 6 from COMMENTS 1,TMY2-13968 -- WMO#723560 to COMMENTS 1,TMY2-13968 -- WMO 723560 3) deleted the last blank line. After converting , I got the following warning- "The climate year is**** and the model year is 2007. Use climate year in your model? Why isn't ESP-r recognising the year in epw file? With Best Regards, Pranav Godbole -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20071127/79400cfc/attachment.html From froshin at dasskorea.com Wed Nov 28 00:50:29 2007 From: froshin at dasskorea.com (=?euc-kr?B?TGV3aXMgWW9vaw==?=) Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 09:50:29 +0900 Subject: [esp-r] =?euc-kr?q?_How_to_make_this_glass=3F_=28TMC=29?= Message-ID: <11962110297732638@froshin> Dear Everyone. I am trying to make a new multilayer construction in esp-r. The attached picture shows the multilayer of the glass which I want to apply in my project. The thing is that 'the sun block film' (red thin layer in the picture) absorbs 75% of solar heat (in average). This heat, then, is emitted from the film surface to the adjacen zone. It warms up the temperature of that zone. Do you think I can simulate this case using a new TMC ? Your teaching will be really appreciated. Thank you for reading. Sincerely, Lewis Yook Team Manager, Integrated Simulation Team. Design and Simulation for Sustainability (DASS) consultants Ltd. 139-743 31-dong(Business Incubator Center) 103-ho, Seoul National University of Technology 174 Gongreung 2-dong Nowon-gu, Seoul, Korea T. 82.2.913.2585 F. 82.2.949.2585 H. www.dasskorea.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20071128/18921788/attachment-0001.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: TMC_outer_glass_1.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 44713 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20071128/18921788/attachment-0001.jpg From pranav.godbole at gmail.com Wed Nov 28 00:51:59 2007 From: pranav.godbole at gmail.com (Pranav Godbole) Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 18:51:59 -0600 Subject: [esp-r] Climate Data Message-ID: <84a2df290711271651y4747e3c6jdcbf9f22edf7f0a5@mail.gmail.com> Good Evening! I tried to convert an .epw file to ESP-r file for city of Tulsa I followed the three steps before importing .epw file. 1) Changed line 1 from LOCATION,TULSA,OK,USA,TMY2-13968,723560,36.20,-95.90,-6.0,206.0 to LOCATION,TULSA,-,OK,USA,TMY2-13968,723560,36.20,-95.90,-6.0,206.0 2) Changed line 6 from COMMENTS 1,TMY2-13968 -- WMO#723560 to COMMENTS 1,TMY2-13968 -- WMO 723560 3) Deleted the last blank line. After converting , I got the following warning- "The climate year is**** and the model year is 2007. Use climate year in your model?" Why isn't ESP-r recognising the year in epw file? With Best Regards, Pranav Godbole On Nov 27, 2007 11:58 AM, Ferguson, Alex wrote: > Hi Anton, > > ESP-r defines the default paths to the system databases using a file > called 'default', which is located in the esp-r installation directory. > If you're building ESP-r from source and have used the '-d' argument to > specify the installation target (that is "./Install -d /opt/espr-11.4"), > the installation script will customize this file to reflect your > particular installation, and prj will use these files by default. And > you can further alter the default file to suit your needs. In a handful > of locations, ESP-r hardcodes default paths to /usr/esru, but these are > typically well-off the beaten path. If you encounter such a case, let us > know. > > The preceding paragraph only applies to installations compiled from an > svn working copy. The ready-to-go installers on the ESRU website expect > to be installed in /usr/esru, necessitating a symbolic link from > /usr/esru to your installation folder. > > - Alex > > -----Original Message----- > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk > [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Anton Driesse > Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 12:23 > To: esp-r list > Subject: [esp-r] Location of database files > > Hi, > > Our shared esp-r installation is in /opt/espr-11.4 but I notice that prj > often looks for databases in /usr/esru. Is there any way to have prj > find the databases using an environment variable, symbolic link, or > other means? > > Thanks, > > Anton > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20071127/f8bbbf58/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Wed Nov 28 09:30:32 2007 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand (clcv10)) Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 09:30:32 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Climate Data In-Reply-To: <84a2df290711271651y4747e3c6jdcbf9f22edf7f0a5@mail.gmail.com> References: <84a2df290711271651y4747e3c6jdcbf9f22edf7f0a5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: A recent question about converting EPW files to esp-r files. The question included an editing of the first line of the file. Try skipping that step. It is actually only required if there is a blank data field. The editing added another field to the line which caused confusion later on. Current versions of the climate module clm tend not to require the manual editing step because newer EPW files do not have the blank data field. -Jon Hand From jake.zwart at sympatico.ca Wed Nov 28 12:58:51 2007 From: jake.zwart at sympatico.ca (Jake Zwart) Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 07:58:51 -0500 Subject: [esp-r] Re: How to make this glass? (TMC) In-Reply-To: <11962110297732638@froshin> Message-ID: These are notes I made for myself a few years ago when faced with making windows that were more easily modeled outside esp-r. I expect not much in this area of esp-r has changed. Jake Advanced Windows modeling See the FAQ pdf file. First generate the window using Windows 5.2, documentation talks about Windows 4.1 or WIS. Well after I wrote this section I noticed that NRCan has put a Canadian Windows modeling program on its website that may be worth checking. UW is working on a better window model implementation in esp-r. Windows have both an insulating function and a transparent function. ESP-r treats these separately for solar gains and heat loss. 1.. The optics database is used for the solar gains. Use the program Window 5.2 from the US government (LBL) for the transparent properties of the windows. This program gives the angle dependent transmission values. I think ESP-r can import directly (it says it can from an earlier unsupported version of Window) but I have not tried this. Someone suggested using WIS, but I have not been able to make this program work. (Haven?t tried to hard, nor had the incentive to try.) Jon Hand has an import from Window 5 on his to do list. 2.. The multilayer construction is used for the heat loss. If the window is argon, it needs a higher R-value for the air layer than the default 0.17. I used 0.25 for ?? of argon. This was scaled from argon conductivity as compared to air with the values taken from Window 5.2. Presumably similar scaling can be done for krypton or mixtures. Even then the U-value is incorrect. The Solar absorptance and IR emissivity do not seem to affect the U-value. I played with the air (ID 0) resistance to try and match U-Values. This is also what Jon Hand recommends. Another time I just played with gap thickness to get the R-value that I wanted. The Uvalue should be accurate, at least according to Jon Hand. 3.. More information in the FAQ pdf file. 4.. Types of glass can be obtained from your glass manufacturer. Editing Windows When editing windows in the m browse/edit/simulate c composition b constructions ?. menu, to change from one construction to another with differing optical as well as insulating properties, then the display of the optical properties does not change until you go into the b database maintenance d constructions a browse or edit this file > save database What I don?t know is if this is required for only the correct display or also the correct values for the calculations. So better safe than sorry. Jon?s response below The recommended place to change a surface attribute from one construction to another is in the zone geometry->surface attributes facility rather than in the zone construction menu. If you make the change in surface attribues it detects that both the zone geometry, construction and tmc files need to be updated. Every once in a while a change from an opaque construction to a transparent construction will generate confusing messages that indicate that the tmc file might not have been written out correctly. In such cases it usually works to use the up-date all constructions option at the bottom of the zone constructions file list. -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk]On Behalf Of Lewis Yook Sent: Tuesday, 27 November, 2007 19:50 To: ESP-r User Forum Subject: [esp-r] How to make this glass? (TMC) Dear Everyone. I am trying to make a new multilayer construction in esp-r. The attached picture shows the multilayer of the glass which I want to apply in my project. The thing is that 'the sun block film' (red thin layer in the picture) absorbs 75% of solar heat (in average). This heat, then, is emitted from the film surface to the adjacen zone. It warms up the temperature of that zone. Do you think I can simulate this case using a new TMC ? Your teaching will be really appreciated. Thank you for reading. Sincerely, Lewis Yook Team Manager, Integrated Simulation Team. Design and Simulation for Sustainability (DASS) consultants Ltd. 139-743 31-dong(Business Incubator Center) 103-ho, Seoul National University of Technology 174 Gongreung 2-dong Nowon-gu, Seoul, Korea T. 82.2.913.2585 F. 82.2.949.2585 H. www.dasskorea.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20071128/12e15306/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Wed Nov 28 14:47:11 2007 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand (clcv10)) Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 14:47:11 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] clarification on where esp-r is located in the pre-compiled.... Message-ID: <10CDD6A1-0271-481C-B482-28D9E9DBFE97@esru.strath.ac.uk> A recent comment to the list: > > The preceding paragraph only applies to installations compiled from an > svn working copy. The ready-to-go installers on the ESRU website > expect > to be installed in /usr/esru, necessitating a symbolic link from > /usr/esru to your installation folder. > Actually the pre-compiled versions of esp-r are compiled to different locations on different machine types as follows: For Linux the self-extactor places the esp-r distribution at /opt/esru because /opt is a standard location to place optional software that a user adds (openoffice and staroffice tend to be placed there by default). For OSX there is typically nothing much in /usr so /opt/esru is used. For cygwin the self-extractor places esp-r in /usr/esru For Native Windows the installer places esp-r in C:\Esru It is a dream in the future to allow for spaces in the paths. Regards, Jon Hand From driessea at queensu.ca Wed Nov 28 15:46:46 2007 From: driessea at queensu.ca (Anton Driesse) Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 10:46:46 -0500 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Location of database files In-Reply-To: References: <474C5290.7070400@queensu.ca> Message-ID: <474D8D66.3040705@queensu.ca> Hi, Thank you for your helpful comments. It seems that each .cfg file contains the full path to the system databases, so presumably the 'default' would only be used when creating a new model from scratch. What's the strategy to be used when you have multiple versions installed, as most developers will have at some point? Anton On 27-Nov-2007 12:58 PM, Ferguson, Alex wrote: > Hi Anton, > > ESP-r defines the default paths to the system databases using a file > called 'default', which is located in the esp-r installation directory. > If you're building ESP-r from source and have used the '-d' argument to > specify the installation target (that is "./Install -d /opt/espr-11.4"), > the installation script will customize this file to reflect your > particular installation, and prj will use these files by default. And > you can further alter the default file to suit your needs. In a handful > of locations, ESP-r hardcodes default paths to /usr/esru, but these are > typically well-off the beaten path. If you encounter such a case, let us > know. > > The preceding paragraph only applies to installations compiled from an > svn working copy. The ready-to-go installers on the ESRU website expect > to be installed in /usr/esru, necessitating a symbolic link from > /usr/esru to your installation folder. > > - Alex > > -----Original Message----- > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk > [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Anton Driesse > Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 12:23 > To: esp-r list > Subject: [esp-r] Location of database files > > Hi, > > Our shared esp-r installation is in /opt/espr-11.4 but I notice that prj > often looks for databases in /usr/esru. Is there any way to have prj > find the databases using an environment variable, symbolic link, or > other means? > > Thanks, > > Anton > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > From driessea at queensu.ca Wed Nov 28 16:40:44 2007 From: driessea at queensu.ca (Anton Driesse) Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 11:40:44 -0500 Subject: [esp-r] Subversion confusion Message-ID: <474D9A0C.3070409@queensu.ca> Hi, I just anonymously checked out the trunk from the repository. The latest revision in the trunk appears to be 2115, but svn tells me it checked out revision 2209. How is this possible? Anton From AFerguso at NRCan.gc.ca Wed Nov 28 16:51:57 2007 From: AFerguso at NRCan.gc.ca (Ferguson, Alex) Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 11:51:57 -0500 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Subversion confusion In-Reply-To: <474D9A0C.3070409@queensu.ca> References: <474D9A0C.3070409@queensu.ca> Message-ID: Hi Anton, The revision number describes the unique state of the entire repository after every commit, and every commit causes the revision number to increment. In your case, the trunk has not changed since r2115, but 94 revisions have been made elsewhere in the repository (that is, in the branches folders). Hope that helps, - Alex -----Original Message----- From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Anton Driesse Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 11:41 To: esp-r list Subject: [esp-r] Subversion confusion Hi, I just anonymously checked out the trunk from the repository. The latest revision in the trunk appears to be 2115, but svn tells me it checked out revision 2209. How is this possible? Anton _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From driessea at queensu.ca Wed Nov 28 16:51:49 2007 From: driessea at queensu.ca (Anton Driesse) Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 11:51:49 -0500 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Is this a bug? In-Reply-To: References: <474B24DB.8050803@queensu.ca> Message-ID: <474D9CA5.3040103@queensu.ca> Hi, I'm just trying to run some of the exemplars using the release version 11.4. bld_simple_uhf produces this when I try to simulate: ****** FORTRAN RUN-TIME SYSTEM ****** Subscript out of range. Location: line 3541 column 21 of 'econtrol.F' Subscript number 2 has value 0 in array 'NELTS' Perhaps an installation issue? Anton On 27-Nov-2007 7:22 AM, Ferguson, Alex wrote: > Hi Anton, > > As Jon mentioned, one of the models is has specified an array subscript > out of the range in memory. It most likely is caused by a bug in one of > the models; can you post a list of the models in your plant network, or > cut-and-paste your plant network file into an email? > > - Alex > > -----Original Message----- > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk > [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Anton Driesse > Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 14:56 > To: esp-r list > Subject: [esp-r] Is this a bug? > > > ****** FORTRAN RUN-TIME SYSTEM ****** > Subscript out of range. Location: line 494 column 21 of 'pmatrx.F' > Subscript number 1 has value 0 in array 'NPCDAT' > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > From pranav.godbole at gmail.com Wed Nov 28 15:25:54 2007 From: pranav.godbole at gmail.com (Pranav Godbole) Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 09:25:54 -0600 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Climate Data In-Reply-To: References: <84a2df290711271651y4747e3c6jdcbf9f22edf7f0a5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <84a2df290711280725r199effc2vec16d664cd4692fb@mail.gmail.com> Hi Thanks for the guidance.. I Will try doing it. With Best Regards, Pranav Godbole On Nov 28, 2007 3:30 AM, Jon Hand (clcv10) wrote: > > A recent question about converting EPW files > to esp-r files. The question included an editing > of the first line of the file. > > Try skipping that step. It is actually only required > if there is a blank data field. The editing added > another field to the line which caused confusion > later on. > > Current versions of the climate module clm tend > not to require the manual editing step because > newer EPW files do not have the blank data field. > > -Jon Hand > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20071128/08b30139/attachment.html From paul at esru.strath.ac.uk Wed Nov 28 17:58:26 2007 From: paul at esru.strath.ac.uk (paul strachan) Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 17:58:26 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] ESP-r release 11.4 Message-ID: <474DAC42.9010106@esru.strath.ac.uk> Executables are now available from the ESRU website for Linux, Cygwin, OSX and Windows. These correspond to the general release 11.4 announced on 9th November. Regards ESRU From driessea at queensu.ca Wed Nov 28 21:42:26 2007 From: driessea at queensu.ca (Anton Driesse) Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 16:42:26 -0500 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Location of database files In-Reply-To: <005601c83136$ec1f5310$6a56ad81@DHSE4> References: <005601c83136$ec1f5310$6a56ad81@DHSE4> Message-ID: <474DE0C2.50501@queensu.ca> There appears to be a limit on the length of path that is acceptable. If that is correct, perhaps the Install script could flag it. Anton On 27-Nov-2007 15:48 PM, Lukas Swan (Dal) wrote: > Hi Anton: > I always simply add the -d PATH > Command during the install and then I don't have to deal with it. > > I am going to try modifying the default file as Alex suggested as I want it > to be easy to develop new databases and climate files elsewhere so that I > don't lose them when I delete esp-r (common during my work). > -- > I will reply to Meli for the Student Rep position before the posted date. > > Thanks > Lukas > > -----Original Message----- > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk > [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Anton Driesse > Sent: November 27, 2007 1:23 PM > To: esp-r list > Subject: [esp-r] Location of database files > > Hi, > > Our shared esp-r installation is in /opt/espr-11.4 but I notice that prj > often looks for databases in /usr/esru. Is there any way to have prj find > the databases using an environment variable, symbolic link, or other means? > > Thanks, > > Anton > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > > From pranav.godbole at gmail.com Thu Nov 29 05:40:28 2007 From: pranav.godbole at gmail.com (Pranav Godbole) Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 23:40:28 -0600 Subject: [esp-r] Result file Message-ID: <84a2df290711282140y70814f33t79e43b3255783abf@mail.gmail.com> Hi I ran the simulation on ESP-r and saved the results file (.res). When tried to access through "Result Analysis", following warning was displayed. *"Could not find C:\PVG\Trial 2 Tulsa Weather\cfg\..\nets/MAE4703-Tulsa.pln" * When this warning was closed, following mesage was displayed. *"GCASC: Save option does not allow access to QCASC"* What could be the problem? How can I access the results file? With Best Regards, Pranav Godbole On Nov 28, 2007 9:46 AM, Anton Driesse wrote: > Hi, > > Thank you for your helpful comments. It seems that each .cfg file > contains the full path to the system databases, so presumably the 'default' > would only be used when creating a new model from scratch. > > What's the strategy to be used when you have multiple versions installed, > as most developers will have at some point? > > Anton > > On 27-Nov-2007 12:58 PM, Ferguson, Alex wrote: > > Hi Anton, > > > > ESP-r defines the default paths to the system databases using a file > > called 'default', which is located in the esp-r installation directory. > > If you're building ESP-r from source and have used the '-d' argument to > > specify the installation target (that is "./Install -d /opt/espr-11.4"), > > the installation script will customize this file to reflect your > > particular installation, and prj will use these files by default. And > > you can further alter the default file to suit your needs. In a handful > > of locations, ESP-r hardcodes default paths to /usr/esru, but these are > > typically well-off the beaten path. If you encounter such a case, let us > > know. > > > > The preceding paragraph only applies to installations compiled from an > > svn working copy. The ready-to-go installers on the ESRU website expect > > to be installed in /usr/esru, necessitating a symbolic link from > > /usr/esru to your installation folder. > > > > - Alex > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk > > [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Anton Driesse > > Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 12:23 > > To: esp-r list > > Subject: [esp-r] Location of database files > > > > Hi, > > > > Our shared esp-r installation is in /opt/espr-11.4 but I notice that prj > > often looks for databases in /usr/esru. Is there any way to have prj > > find the databases using an environment variable, symbolic link, or > > other means? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Anton > > > > _______________________________________________ > > esp-r mailing list > > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > > > > _______________________________________________ > > esp-r mailing list > > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20071128/4a345f1d/attachment.html From aizaz.a.samuel at strath.ac.uk Thu Nov 29 08:55:49 2007 From: aizaz.a.samuel at strath.ac.uk (Aizaz Samuel) Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 08:55:49 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Result file In-Reply-To: <84a2df290711282140y70814f33t79e43b3255783abf@mail.gmail.com> References: <84a2df290711282140y70814f33t79e43b3255783abf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200711290855.49280.aizaz.a.samuel@strath.ac.uk> > "GCASC: Save option does not allow access to QCASC" > What could be the problem? How can I access the results file? Try running the simulation with a higher save level (option "* save >> ..." in SIMUL menu) -Aizaz On Thursday 29 November 2007 05:40, Pranav Godbole wrote: > Hi > I ran the simulation on ESP-r and saved the results file (.res). When tried > to access through "Result Analysis", following warning was displayed. > > "Could not find C:\PVG\Trial 2 Tulsa Weather\cfg\..\nets/MAE4703-Tulsa.pln" > > When this warning was closed, following mesage was displayed. > > "GCASC: Save option does not allow access to QCASC" > What could be the problem? How can I access the results file? > > With Best Regards, > Pranav Godbole > On Nov 28, 2007 9:46 AM, Anton Driesse > > wrote: Hi, > > Thank you for your helpful comments. It seems that each .cfg file contains > the full path to the system databases, so presumably the 'default' would > only be used when creating a new model from scratch. > > What's the strategy to be used when you have multiple versions installed, > as most developers will have at some point? > > Anton > > On 27-Nov-2007 12:58 PM, Ferguson, Alex wrote: > > Hi Anton, > > > > ESP-r defines the default paths to the system databases using a file > > called 'default', which is located in the esp-r installation directory. > > If you're building ESP-r from source and have used the '-d' argument to > > specify the installation target (that is "./Install -d /opt/espr-11.4"), > > the installation script will customize this file to reflect your > > particular installation, and prj will use these files by default. And > > you can further alter the default file to suit your needs. In a handful > > of locations, ESP-r hardcodes default paths to /usr/esru, but these are > > typically well-off the beaten path. If you encounter such a case, let us > > know. > > > > The preceding paragraph only applies to installations compiled from an > > svn working copy. The ready-to-go installers on the ESRU website expect > > to be installed in /usr/esru, necessitating a symbolic link from > > /usr/esru to your installation folder. > > > > - Alex > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: > > esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk > > [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk >h.ac.uk>] On Behalf Of Anton Driesse Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 > > 12:23 > > To: esp-r list > > Subject: [esp-r] Location of database files > > > > Hi, > > > > Our shared esp-r installation is in /opt/espr-11.4 but I notice that prj > > often looks for databases in /usr/esru. Is there any way to have prj > > find the databases using an environment variable, symbolic link, or > > other means? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Anton > > > > _______________________________________________ > > esp-r mailing list > > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > > > > _______________________________________________ > > esp-r mailing list > > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From perhaugaard at yahoo.dk Thu Nov 29 11:07:21 2007 From: perhaugaard at yahoo.dk (Per Haugaard) Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 11:07:21 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [esp-r] Installation of Radiance for ESP-r Message-ID: <306382.73520.qm@web26612.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Dear ESP-r Users I have run into trouble installing Radiance v3.8 on my Ubutu Linux operating system. I want to use Radiance along with ESP-r. I have downloaded unpacked the file to /opt/esru/bin/Radiance and I want to initiate the command "./makeall install" as written in the README file. This gives me the following error: "./makeall: no such file or directory". The file exist in the ray directory and I have added the following path to my .profile -file: /opt/esru/bin/Radiance/ and /opt/esru/bin/Radiance/ray How do I get around this? Thank you in advance and best regards Per Haugaard ______________________ Per Haugaard, Griffenfeldsgade 33, 2.tv 2200 K?benhavn N Denmark mobil: +45 26 39 06 40 E-mail: perhaugaard at yahoo.dk Tr?nger du til at se det store billede? Kelkoo giver dig gode tilbud p? LCD TV! Se her http://dk.yahoo.com/r/pat/lcd -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20071129/1e682705/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Thu Nov 29 11:14:11 2007 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand (clcv10)) Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 11:14:11 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Installation of Radiance for ESP-r In-Reply-To: <306382.73520.qm@web26612.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <306382.73520.qm@web26612.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: A question about installing Radiance in /opt/esru/bin/Radiance What most people do is install Radiance in the default location that Radiance likes and setup the RAYPATH environment variables as suggested in the Radiance install instructions. As long as the radiance executables and libraries can be found on your machine ESP-r is happy with this. A future version of ESP-r will probably delete the bin/Radiance and lib/Radiance folders within the esp-r distribution. -Jon Hand From perhaugaard at yahoo.dk Thu Nov 29 12:58:37 2007 From: perhaugaard at yahoo.dk (Per Haugaard) Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 12:58:37 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [esp-r] Installation of Radiance for ESP-r 2 Message-ID: <495086.69574.qm@web26603.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Dear ESP-r users, Since the "csh-package" is not installed in an typical Ubuntu installation the "./makeall install" can not be initiated. I have included this package but when I initiate the "./makeall install"-command I get the following error message: /usr/include/stdio.h:686: error: conflicting types for ?fseek? /usr/include/stdio.h:654: error: previous declaration of ?fseek? was here and Radiance is not installed. I can't find "fseek" or matching file on my system or within my package manager. Does anyone have an idea what file to use instead of "fseek" and how I change the "rmake" command to match this file? Thank you in advance and best regards Per Haugaard ______________________ Per Haugaard, Griffenfeldsgade 33, 2.tv 2200 K?benhavn N Denmark mobil: +45 26 39 06 40 E-mail: perhaugaard at yahoo.dk ----- Forwarded Message ---- From: Per Haugaard To: esp-r Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 12:07:21 PM Subject: [esp-r] Installation of Radiance for ESP-r Dear ESP-r Users I have run into trouble installing Radiance v3.8 on my Ubutu Linux operating system. I want to use Radiance along with ESP-r. I have downloaded unpacked the file to /opt/esru/bin/Radiance and I want to initiate the command "./makeall install" as written in the README file. This gives me the following error: "./makeall: no such file or directory". The file exist in the ray directory and I have added the following path to my .profile -file: /opt/esru/bin/Radiance/ and /opt/esru/bin/Radiance/ray How do I get around this? Thank you in advance and best regards Per Haugaard ______________________ Per Haugaard, Griffenfeldsgade 33, 2.tv 2200 K?benhavn N Denmark mobil: +45 26 39 06 40 E-mail: perhaugaard at yahoo.dk Audi, Fiat, Peugeot, Skoda, Porsche, Toyota, Ford - Kelkoo har brugte biler til en hver smag! Klik her for at sammenligne priser. Tr?nger du til at se det store billede? Kelkoo giver dig gode tilbud p? LCD TV! Se her http://dk.yahoo.com/r/pat/lcd -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20071129/dd7f9cdb/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ esp-r mailing list esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch Thu Nov 29 13:07:14 2007 From: Achim.Geissler at josef-gartner.ch (Geissler Achim) Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 14:07:14 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: Installation of Radiance for ESP-r 2 References: <495086.69574.qm@web26603.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C291216@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Dear Per, as far as I remember, fseek is a Macro. Did you try a >grep ?ni ?fseek? *.h< in /usr/include ? Mit freundlichen Gr?ssen / Best regards Achim Geissler ________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Per Haugaard Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 1:59 PM To: esp-r Subject: [esp-r] Installation of Radiance for ESP-r 2 Dear ESP-r users, Since the "csh-package" is not installed in an typical Ubuntu installation the "./makeall install" can not be initiated. I have included this package but when I initiate the "./makeall install"-command I get the following error message: /usr/include/stdio.h:686: error: conflicting types for ?fseek? /usr/include/stdio.h:654: error: previous declaration of ?fseek? was here and Radiance is not installed. I can't find "fseek" or matching file on my system or within my package manager. Does anyone have an idea what file to use instead of "fseek" and how I change the "rmake" command to match this file? Thank you in advance and best regards Per Haugaard ______________________ Per Haugaard, Griffenfeldsgade 33, 2.tv 2200 K?benhavn N Denmark mobil: +45 26 39 06 40 E-mail: perhaugaard at yahoo.dk ----- Forwarded Message ---- From: Per Haugaard To: esp-r Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 12:07:21 PM Subject: [esp-r] Installation of Radiance for ESP-r Dear ESP-r Users I have run into trouble installing Radiance v3.8 on my Ubutu Linux operating system. I want to use Radiance along with ESP-r. I have downloaded unpacked the file to /opt/esru/bin/Radiance and I want to initiate the command "./makeall install" as written in the README file. This gives me the following error: "./makeall: no such file or directory". The file exist in the ray directory and I have added the following path to my .profile -file: /opt/esru/bin/Radiance/ and /opt/esru/bin/Radiance/ray How do I get around this? Thank you in advance and best regards Per Haugaard ______________________ Per Haugaard, Griffenfeldsgade 33, 2.tv 2200 K?benhavn N Denmark mobil: +45 26 39 06 40 E-mail: perhaugaard at yahoo.dk ________________________________ Audi, Fiat, Peugeot, Skoda, Porsche, Toyota, Ford - Kelkoo har brugte biler til en hver smag! Klik her for at sammenligne priser. ________________________________ Tr?nger du til at se det store billede? Kelkoo giver dig gode tilbud p? LCD TV ! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20071129/66939487/attachment.html From perhaugaard at yahoo.dk Thu Nov 29 13:38:26 2007 From: perhaugaard at yahoo.dk (Per Haugaard) Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 13:38:26 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [esp-r] Re: Installation of Radiance for ESP-r 2 Message-ID: <924197.75147.qm@web26609.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Dear ESP-r users I just tried the command and unfortunately without any luck. Here is the reply: root at pha-Linux:/usr/include# grep ?ni ?fseek? *.h grep: ?fseek?: No such file or directory Best regards Per Haugaard ______________________ Per Haugaard, Griffenfeldsgade 33, 2.tv 2200 K?benhavn N Denmark mobil: +45 26 39 06 40 E-mail: perhaugaard at yahoo.dk ----- Original Message ---- From: Geissler Achim To: Per Haugaard ; esp-r Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 2:07:14 PM Subject: [esp-r] Re: Installation of Radiance for ESP-r 2 Dear Per, as far as I remember, fseek is a Macro. Did you try a >grep ?ni ?fseek? *.h< in /usr/include ? Mit freundlichen Gr?ssen / Best regards Achim Geissler From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Per Haugaard Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 1:59 PM To: esp-r Subject: [esp-r] Installation of Radiance for ESP-r 2 Dear ESP-r users, Since the "csh-package" is not installed in an typical Ubuntu installation the "./makeall install" can not be initiated. I have included this package but when I initiate the "./makeall install"-command I get the following error message: /usr/include/stdio.h:686: error: conflicting types for ?fseek? /usr/include/stdio.h:654: error: previous declaration of ?fseek? was here and Radiance is not installed. I can't find "fseek" or matching file on my system or within my package manager. Does anyone have an idea what file to use instead of "fseek" and how I change the "rmake" command to match this file? Thank you in advance and best regards Per Haugaard ______________________ Per Haugaard, Griffenfeldsgade 33, 2.tv 2200 K?benhavn N Denmark mobil: +45 26 39 06 40 E-mail: perhaugaard at yahoo.dk ----- Forwarded Message ---- From: Per Haugaard To: esp-r Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 12:07:21 PM Subject: [esp-r] Installation of Radiance for ESP-r Dear ESP-r Users I have run into trouble installing Radiance v3.8 on my Ubutu Linux operating system. I want to use Radiance along with ESP-r. I have downloaded unpacked the file to /opt/esru/bin/Radiance and I want to initiate the command "./makeall install" as written in the README file. This gives me the following error: "./makeall: no such file or directory". The file exist in the ray directory and I have added the following path to my .profile -file: /opt/esru/bin/Radiance/ and /opt/esru/bin/Radiance/ray How do I get around this? Thank you in advance and best regards Per Haugaard ______________________ Per Haugaard, Griffenfeldsgade 33, 2.tv 2200 K?benhavn N Denmark mobil: +45 26 39 06 40 E-mail: perhaugaard at yahoo.dk Audi, Fiat, Peugeot, Skoda, Porsche, Toyota, Ford - Kelkoo har brugte biler til en hver smag! Klik her for at sammenligne priser. Tr?nger du til at se det store billede? Kelkoo giver dig gode tilbud p? LCD TV! Tr?nger du til at se det store billede? Kelkoo giver dig gode tilbud p? LCD TV! Se her http://dk.yahoo.com/r/pat/lcd -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20071129/8fc0fd67/attachment-0001.html From AFerguso at NRCan.gc.ca Thu Nov 29 13:50:20 2007 From: AFerguso at NRCan.gc.ca (Ferguson, Alex) Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 08:50:20 -0500 Subject: [esp-r] Re: storage of humidity within massiv components ? Message-ID: Hi Jake, Every simulation tool has strengths and weaknesses. ESP-r's treatment of moisture diffusion (or lack there-of) is a known deficiency. It's an area of interest for us, mostly because we cannot accurately model night-time natural ventilation and free cooling strategies without computing the latent load resulting when moisture from humid air is absorbed in the building structure and furnishings. We have some funding to improve this aspect of ESP-r, but the work is presently on hold while we focus on other priorities. As I'm sure both you and Professor Straube can attest to, the validity of a model's predictions depends as much on how well the user understands the underlying algorithms as on the model's theoretical vigour. Even comparatively simple tools with well-known flaws (for example, HOT2000 and DOE2.1) can be applied accurately as long as their limits are respected. And that's perhaps the biggest challenge to using ESP-r --- its limitations are not well documented and often difficult to discern. A few years ago, the US DOE, ESRU and SEL produced a fairly comprehensive report describing the capabilities of prominent building energy simulation programs. WUFI didn't make the list, probably because in 2005 WUFI (then WUFI-ORNL/IBP) was focused primarly on mosture transport and its energy modelling capabilities are a fairly recent addition. http://www.eere.energy.gov/buildings/tools_directory/pdfs/contrasting_the_capabilities_of_building_energy_performance_simulation_programs_v1.0.pdf - Alex -----Original Message----- From: Jake Zwart [mailto:jake.zwart at sympatico.ca] Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 07:50 To: Ferguson, Alex Subject: FW: [esp-r] storage of humidity within massiv components ? Hi Alex: I thought I would forward this email on to you. If esp-r has one of the better whole building simulation engines, and people struggle with it, does that say something about the other simulators? I am sort of passing this on, in case it may a topic of interest for your research should you try for an advanced degree. It may also be a of interest should proper hygric modeling be incorporated into esp-r. I suppose to do something like that may mean a completely new simulation engine would be developed and the two would both be operational, with the user selecting which one. I know that John Straube is very active in moisture transport analysis in buildings and the potential harmful effects of a vapour barrier depending upon the climate. Research in this area, especially if it can be incorporated into building simulation tools used by the government would definitely be useful, and may even allow for an easily accessible engineered alternative to vapour barriers, ultimately leading to changes in the code regarding vapour barriers. If this line of research does interest you, you might consider John Straube as a supervisor, or co-supervisor. As co-supervisor, you might not even have to move. I took a look at the WUFI web site and it looks good but TRYNSIS type prices. I did not see any indication of plant components. There is a free educational and non commercial version though. Jake -----Original Message----- From: John Straube [mailto:jfstraub at civmail.uwaterloo.ca] Sent: Wednesday, 28 November, 2007 22:18 To: jake.zwart at sympatico.ca Cc: 'Pueltz, Gunter'; 'John Straube' Subject: Re: [esp-r] storage of humidity within massiv components ? Hi there Jake esp-r does not handle moisture well. We have struggled even with the energy. I have modelled buildings with earth plastered strawbales and compared them to field measurements using WUFI with very good results. WUFI-Plus is a new whole building program that properly accounts for thermal mass, hygric mass, and ventilation energy, moisture and even CO2. This is what I would consider. The good news for Guenter is that this program is developed and supported close to their home at the Fruanhofer Insitut fuer Bauphsik in Holzkirchen. Checkout www.wufi.de Jake Zwart wrote: > Hi Gunter, > > I have been told that esp-r does not model moisture storage in walls which > is an essential element of moisture calculation. Not sure about the vapour > diffusion part. > > I have attached two papers that talk about moisture modeling in walls. I > have tried the simpler steady state method within a spreadsheet and it is > quite easily implemented. The other paper offers about a 5 year old review > of simulation packages that may do the modeling that you require. > > I find the web site www.balancedsolutions.com quite useful for research in > this area. > > I have cced the author of the papers, in case you have any direct questions. > > I wonder if there has been any discussion about implementing moisture > transport and storage within walls in esp-r and what the interest would be. > I think it would be quite useful. > > Jake Zwart > > -----Original Message----- > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk > [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk]On Behalf Of Pueltz, Gunter > Sent: Monday, 26 November, 2007 10:42 > To: 'esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk' > Subject: [esp-r] storage of humidity within massiv components ? > > > Dear ESRUs, > > I have to simulate historic rooms with a bit humid walls by ESP -r. > Concerning humidity WITHIN the massiv components (not only at the internal > surface) following questions: > > 1) Does ESP -r calculate the humidification + de-humidification of walls > resp. the storage of humidity in the walls ? > In the material database a vapour resistivity is defined for each material > .... > But does ESP-r model vapour diffusion within a multi-layer component ? > > 2) If there exists a humidity source - e.g. in the ground (groundwater or > rain water, which raises upwards into the walls of my rooms) - how can such > a humidity source be implemented WITHIN a multi-layer-component (e.g. a > wall) ? > > Any idea or comment appreciated. > > Regards, > Gunter > > > -- > Dr. Gunter P?ltz > > M?ller-BBM GmbH > Robert-Koch-Stra?e 11 > 82152 Planegg > Telefon +49 (0)89 85602 - 336 > Telefax +49 (0)89 85602 - 111 > http://www.MuellerBBM.de > > HRB M?nchen 86143 > Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Bernd Gr?zinger, Dr. Edwin Schorer, Norbert Suritsch > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > > > -- Dr John Straube, P.Eng. Associate Professor Dept of Civil Engineering & School of Architecture University of Waterloo Waterloo, ON Canada From luismiguel_78 at hotmail.com Thu Nov 29 16:49:50 2007 From: luismiguel_78 at hotmail.com (Luis Miguel Candanedo) Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 11:49:50 -0500 Subject: [esp-r] Installation of Radiance on Linux systems Ubuntu In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Everybody, This is in response to the question of installation of Radiance on linux distros. Ubuntu is a debian based system. There is a website that explains the installation of radiance for such systems prepared by Francesco Anselmo. http://www.bozzograo.net/radiancewiki/doku.php/standard_unix_distribution However I'm not sure if this is what Per Haugaard needs. Cheers, Luis Luis Miguel Candanedo Ibarra Graduate PhD. Student in Building Engineering BCEE Concordia University 1436 Mackay - Apt 2107Montreal, Quebec, CanadaH3G 2H8 "These are the days of miracle and wonder..." P.Simon "Half of the people can be part right all of the time,Some of the people can be all right part of the time.But all the people can't be all right all the time" B.Dylan "All our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike - and yet it is the most precious thing we have." A. E. > From: esp-r-request at lists.strath.ac.uk> Subject: esp-r Digest, Vol 16, Issue 33> To: esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk> Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 13:39:24 +0000> > Send esp-r mailing list submissions to> esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit> http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to> esp-r-request at lists.strath.ac.uk> > You can reach the person managing the list at> esp-r-owner at lists.strath.ac.uk> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific> than "Re: Contents of esp-r digest..."> > > Today's Topics:> > 1. Installation of Radiance for ESP-r 2 (Per Haugaard)> 2. Re: Installation of Radiance for ESP-r 2 (Geissler Achim)> 3. Re: Installation of Radiance for ESP-r 2 (Per Haugaard)> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------> > Message: 1> Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 12:58:37 +0000 (GMT)> From: Per Haugaard > Subject: [esp-r] Installation of Radiance for ESP-r 2> To: esp-r > Message-ID: <495086.69574.qm at web26603.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"> > Dear ESP-r users,> > Since the "csh-package" is not installed in an typical Ubuntu installation the "./makeall install" can not be initiated. I have included this package but when I initiate the "./makeall install"-command I get the following error message:> > /usr/include/stdio.h:686: error: conflicting types for ?fseek?> /usr/include/stdio.h:654: error: previous declaration of ?fseek? was here> > and Radiance is not installed. I can't find "fseek" or matching file on my system or within my package manager. Does anyone have an idea what file to use instead of "fseek" and how I change the "rmake" command to match this file?> > > Thank you in advance and best regards> > Per Haugaard> > ______________________ > Per Haugaard,> Griffenfeldsgade 33, 2.tv> 2200 K?benhavn N> Denmark> > mobil: +45 26 39 06 40> E-mail: perhaugaard at yahoo.dk> > ----- Forwarded Message ----> From: Per Haugaard > To: esp-r > Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 12:07:21 PM> Subject: [esp-r] Installation of Radiance for ESP-r> > Dear ESP-r Users> > I have run into trouble installing Radiance v3.8 on my Ubutu Linux operating system. I want to use Radiance along with ESP-r. I have downloaded unpacked the file to /opt/esru/bin/Radiance and I want to initiate the command "./makeall install" as written in the README file. This gives me the following error: "./makeall: no such file or directory". The file exist in the ray directory and I have added the following path to my .profile -file: /opt/esru/bin/Radiance/ and /opt/esru/bin/Radiance/ray> > How do I get around this?> > Thank you in advance and best regards> > Per Haugaard> > ______________________ > Per Haugaard,> Griffenfeldsgade 33, 2.tv> 2200 K?benhavn N> Denmark> > mobil: +45 26 39 06> 40> E-mail: perhaugaard at yahoo.dk> > > > > > > > > > Audi, Fiat, Peugeot, Skoda, Porsche, Toyota, Ford - Kelkoo har brugte biler til en hver smag! Klik her for at sammenligne priser. > > > > > > > > Tr?nger du til at se det store billede? Kelkoo giver dig gode tilbud p? LCD TV! Se her http://dk.yahoo.com/r/pat/lcd> -------------- next part --------------> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...> URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20071129/dd7f9cdb/attachment-0001.html > -------------- next part --------------> _______________________________________________> esp-r mailing list> esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk> http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r> > ------------------------------> > Message: 2> Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 14:07:14 +0100> From: "Geissler Achim" > Subject: [esp-r] Re: Installation of Radiance for ESP-r 2> To: "Per Haugaard" , "esp-r"> > Message-ID:> <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C291216 at sgartgum1.gart.intra>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"> > Dear Per,> > > > as far as I remember, fseek is a Macro. Did you try a >grep ?ni ?fseek? *.h< in /usr/include ?> > > > Mit freundlichen Gr?ssen / Best regards> > > > Achim Geissler> > ________________________________> > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Per Haugaard> Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 1:59 PM> To: esp-r> Subject: [esp-r] Installation of Radiance for ESP-r 2> > > > Dear ESP-r users,> > Since the "csh-package" is not installed in an typical Ubuntu installation the "./makeall install" can not be initiated. I have included this package but when I initiate the "./makeall install"-command I get the following error message:> > /usr/include/stdio.h:686: error: conflicting types for ?fseek?> /usr/include/stdio.h:654: error: previous declaration of ?fseek? was here> > and Radiance is not installed. I can't find "fseek" or matching file on my system or within my package manager. Does anyone have an idea what file to use instead of "fseek" and how I change the "rmake" command to match this file?> > > Thank you in advance and best regards> > Per Haugaard> > > > ______________________> > > > Per Haugaard,> Griffenfeldsgade 33, 2.tv> 2200 K?benhavn N> Denmark> > > > mobil: +45 26 39 06 40> E-mail: perhaugaard at yahoo.dk> > > > ----- Forwarded Message ----> From: Per Haugaard > To: esp-r > Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 12:07:21 PM> Subject: [esp-r] Installation of Radiance for ESP-r> > Dear ESP-r Users> > I have run into trouble installing Radiance v3.8 on my Ubutu Linux operating system. I want to use Radiance along with ESP-r. I have downloaded unpacked the file to /opt/esru/bin/Radiance and I want to initiate the command "./makeall install" as written in the README file. This gives me the following error: "./makeall: no such file or directory". The file exist in the ray directory and I have added the following path to my .profile -file: /opt/esru/bin/Radiance/ and /opt/esru/bin/Radiance/ray> > How do I get around this?> > Thank you in advance and best regards> > Per Haugaard> > > > ______________________> > > > Per Haugaard,> Griffenfeldsgade 33, 2.tv> 2200 K?benhavn N> Denmark> > > > mobil: +45 26 39 06 40> E-mail: perhaugaard at yahoo.dk> > > > > > ________________________________> > > > Audi, Fiat, Peugeot, Skoda, Porsche, Toyota, Ford - Kelkoo har brugte biler til en hver smag! Klik her for at sammenligne priser.> > > > > > ________________________________> > > > Tr?nger du til at se det store billede? Kelkoo giver dig gode tilbud p? LCD TV !> > > > -------------- next part --------------> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...> URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20071129/66939487/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------> > Message: 3> Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 13:38:26 +0000 (GMT)> From: Per Haugaard > Subject: [esp-r] Re: Installation of Radiance for ESP-r 2> To: Geissler Achim , esp-r> > Message-ID: <924197.75147.qm at web26609.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"> > Dear ESP-r users> > I just tried the command and unfortunately without any luck. Here is the reply: > > root at pha-Linux:/usr/include# grep ?ni ?fseek? *.h> grep: ?fseek?: No such file or directory> > > Best regards> > Per Haugaard> > ______________________ > Per Haugaard,> Griffenfeldsgade 33, 2.tv> 2200 K?benhavn N> Denmark> > mobil: +45 26 39 06 40> E-mail: perhaugaard at yahoo.dk> > ----- Original Message ----> From: Geissler Achim > To: Per Haugaard ; esp-r > Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 2:07:14 PM> Subject: [esp-r] Re: Installation of Radiance for ESP-r 2> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _filtered {font-family:"MS Mincho";> panose-1:2 2 6 9 4 2 5 8 3 4;}> _filtered {font-family:Tahoma;> panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}> _filtered {> panose-1:2 2 6 9 4 2 5 8 3 4;}> /* Style Definitions */> > p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal> > {margin:0cm;> margin-bottom:.0001pt;> font-size:12.0pt;> font-family:"Times New Roman";}> a:link, span.MsoHyperlink> > {color:blue;> text-decoration:underline;}> a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed> > {color:blue;> text-decoration:underline;}> p> > {margin-right:0cm;> margin-left:0cm;> font-size:12.0pt;> font-family:"Times New Roman";}> span.EmailStyle17> > {font-family:Arial;> color:navy;}> _filtered {> margin:72.0pt 90.0pt 72.0pt 90.0pt;}> div.Section1> > {}> -->> > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Per,> > > > > > > > > > as far as I remember, fseek is a Macro.> > Did you try a >grep ?ni ?fseek? *.h< in /usr/include ?> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mit> > freundlichen Gr?ssen / Best regards> > > > > > > > > > Achim> > Geissler> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From:> > esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Per Haugaard> > > Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007> > 1:59 PM> > > To: esp-r> > > Subject: [esp-r] Installation of> > Radiance for ESP-r 2> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear ESP-r users,> > > > > > Since the "csh-package" is not installed in an typical Ubuntu> > installation the "./makeall install" can not be initiated. I have> > included this package but when I initiate the "./makeall> > install"-command I get the following error message:> > > > > > /usr/include/stdio.h:686: error: conflicting types for ?fseek?> > > /usr/include/stdio.h:654: error: previous declaration of ?fseek? was here> > > > > > and Radiance is not installed. I can't find "fseek" or matching file> > on my system or within my package manager. Does anyone have an idea what file> > to use instead of "fseek" and how I change the "rmake"> > command to match this file?> > > > > > > > > Thank you in advance and best regards> > > > > > Per Haugaard> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Per Haugaard,> > > Griffenfeldsgade 33, 2.tv> > > 2200 K?benhavn N> > > Denmark> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mobil: +45 26 39 06 40> > > E-mail: perhaugaard at yahoo.dk> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Forwarded Message> > ----> > > From: Per Haugaard > > > To: esp-r > > > Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 12:07:21 PM> > > Subject: [esp-r] Installation of Radiance for ESP-r> > > > > > > > > Dear ESP-r Users> > > > > > I have run into trouble installing Radiance v3.8 on my Ubutu Linux operating> > system. I want to use Radiance along with ESP-r. I have downloaded unpacked the> > file to /opt/esru/bin/Radiance and I want to initiate the command> > "./makeall install" as written in the README file. This gives me the> > following error: "./makeall: no such file or directory". The file> > exist in the ray directory and I have added the following path to my .profile> > -file: /opt/esru/bin/Radiance/ and /opt/esru/bin/Radiance/ray> > > > > > How do I get around this?> > > > > > Thank you in advance and best regards> > > > > > Per Haugaard> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Per Haugaard,> > > Griffenfeldsgade 33, 2.tv> > > 2200 K?benhavn N> > > Denmark> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mobil: +45 26 39 06 40> > > E-mail: perhaugaard at yahoo.dk> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Audi, Fiat, Peugeot, Skoda, Porsche, Toyota, Ford - Kelkoo har brugte biler til en hver smag! Klik her for at> > sammenligne priser.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tr?nger du til at se det store billede? Kelkoo giver> > dig gode tilbud p? LCD TV!> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tr?nger du til at se det store billede? Kelkoo giver dig gode tilbud p? LCD TV! Se her http://dk.yahoo.com/r/pat/lcd> -------------- next part --------------> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...> URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20071129/8fc0fd67/attachment.html > > ------------------------------> > _______________________________________________> esp-r mailing list> esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk> http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r> > End of esp-r Digest, Vol 16, Issue 33> ************************************* _________________________________________________________________ R U Ready for Windows Live Messenger Beta 8.5? Try it today! http://entertainment.sympatico.msn.ca/WindowsLiveMessenger -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20071129/83b995d4/attachment-0001.html From abdul.mahmood at strath.ac.uk Fri Nov 30 14:45:49 2007 From: abdul.mahmood at strath.ac.uk (Abdul Rahim Bin Mahmood) Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 14:45:49 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: storage of humidity within massiv components ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200711301445.49210.abdul.mahmood@strath.ac.uk> Hi, ESP-r does allow a simple steady-state analysis of condensation risk based on vapour diffusion. In addition, Dr Abdul Nakhi put in the capability to include absorption/desorption as part of his PhD work (see www.strath.ac.uk/Documents/PhD/nakhi_thesis.pdf). However, this needs further work. Implementing improved moisture transport and storage capability in ESP-r will be part of my PhD study I hope to progress on. Abdul Mahmood On Thursday 29 November 2007 13:50:20 Ferguson, Alex wrote: > Hi Jake, > > Every simulation tool has strengths and weaknesses. ESP-r's treatment of > moisture diffusion (or lack there-of) is a known deficiency. It's an area > of interest for us, mostly because we cannot accurately model night-time > natural ventilation and free cooling strategies without computing the > latent load resulting when moisture from humid air is absorbed in the > building structure and furnishings. We have some funding to improve this > aspect of ESP-r, but the work is presently on hold while we focus on other > priorities. > > As I'm sure both you and Professor Straube can attest to, the validity of a > model's predictions depends as much on how well the user understands the > underlying algorithms as on the model's theoretical vigour. Even > comparatively simple tools with well-known flaws (for example, HOT2000 and > DOE2.1) can be applied accurately as long as their limits are respected. > And that's perhaps the biggest challenge to using ESP-r --- its limitations > are not well documented and often difficult to discern. > > A few years ago, the US DOE, ESRU and SEL produced a fairly comprehensive > report describing the capabilities of prominent building energy simulation > programs. WUFI didn't make the list, probably because in 2005 WUFI (then > WUFI-ORNL/IBP) was focused primarly on mosture transport and its energy > modelling capabilities are a fairly recent addition. > > http://www.eere.energy.gov/buildings/tools_directory/pdfs/contrasting_the_c >apabilities_of_building_energy_performance_simulation_programs_v1.0.pdf > > - Alex > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jake Zwart [mailto:jake.zwart at sympatico.ca] > Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 07:50 > To: Ferguson, Alex > Subject: FW: [esp-r] storage of humidity within massiv components ? > > Hi Alex: > > I thought I would forward this email on to you. If esp-r has one of the > better whole building simulation engines, and people struggle with it, does > that say something about the other simulators? > > I am sort of passing this on, in case it may a topic of interest for your > research should you try for an advanced degree. It may also be a of > interest should proper hygric modeling be incorporated into esp-r. I > suppose to do something like that may mean a completely new simulation > engine would be developed and the two would both be operational, with the > user selecting which one. > > I know that John Straube is very active in moisture transport analysis in > buildings and the potential harmful effects of a vapour barrier depending > upon the climate. Research in this area, especially if it can be > incorporated into building simulation tools used by the government would > definitely be useful, and may even allow for an easily accessible > engineered alternative to vapour barriers, ultimately leading to changes in > the code regarding vapour barriers. If this line of research does interest > you, you might consider John Straube as a supervisor, or co-supervisor. As > co-supervisor, you might not even have to move. > > I took a look at the WUFI web site and it looks good but TRYNSIS type > prices. I did not see any indication of plant components. There is a free > educational and non commercial version though. > > Jake > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Straube [mailto:jfstraub at civmail.uwaterloo.ca] > Sent: Wednesday, 28 November, 2007 22:18 > To: jake.zwart at sympatico.ca > Cc: 'Pueltz, Gunter'; 'John Straube' > Subject: Re: [esp-r] storage of humidity within massiv components ? > > > Hi there Jake > esp-r does not handle moisture well. We have struggled even with the > energy. I have modelled buildings with earth plastered strawbales and > compared them to field measurements using WUFI with very good results. > WUFI-Plus is a new whole building program that properly accounts for > thermal mass, hygric mass, and ventilation energy, moisture and even CO2. > This is what I would consider. > The good news for Guenter is that this program is developed and supported > close to their home at the Fruanhofer Insitut fuer Bauphsik in Holzkirchen. > Checkout www.wufi.de > > Jake Zwart wrote: > > Hi Gunter, > > > > I have been told that esp-r does not model moisture storage in walls > > which is an essential element of moisture calculation. Not sure about > > the > > vapour > > > diffusion part. > > > > I have attached two papers that talk about moisture modeling in walls. I > > have tried the simpler steady state method within a spreadsheet and it is > > quite easily implemented. The other paper offers about a 5 year old > > review > > > of simulation packages that may do the modeling that you require. > > > > I find the web site www.balancedsolutions.com quite useful for research > > in this area. > > > > I have cced the author of the papers, in case you have any direct > > questions. > > > I wonder if there has been any discussion about implementing moisture > > transport and storage within walls in esp-r and what the interest would > > be. > > > I think it would be quite useful. > > > > Jake Zwart > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk > > [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk]On Behalf Of Pueltz, Gunter > > Sent: Monday, 26 November, 2007 10:42 > > To: 'esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk' > > Subject: [esp-r] storage of humidity within massiv components ? > > > > > > Dear ESRUs, > > > > I have to simulate historic rooms with a bit humid walls by ESP -r. > > Concerning humidity WITHIN the massiv components (not only at the > > internal surface) following questions: > > > > 1) Does ESP -r calculate the humidification + de-humidification of walls > > resp. the storage of humidity in the walls ? > > In the material database a vapour resistivity is defined for each > > material .... > > But does ESP-r model vapour diffusion within a multi-layer component ? > > > > 2) If there exists a humidity source - e.g. in the ground (groundwater or > > rain water, which raises upwards into the walls of my rooms) - how can > > such > > > a humidity source be implemented WITHIN a multi-layer-component (e.g. a > > wall) ? > > > > Any idea or comment appreciated. > > > > Regards, > > Gunter > > > > > > -- > > Dr. Gunter P?ltz > > > > M?ller-BBM GmbH > > Robert-Koch-Stra?e 11 > > 82152 Planegg > > Telefon +49 (0)89 85602 - 336 > > Telefax +49 (0)89 85602 - 111 > > http://www.MuellerBBM.de > > > > HRB M?nchen 86143 > > Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Bernd Gr?zinger, Dr. Edwin Schorer, Norbert Suritsch > > > > _______________________________________________ > > esp-r mailing list > > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r > > -- > Dr John Straube, P.Eng. > Associate Professor > Dept of Civil Engineering & School of Architecture > University of Waterloo > Waterloo, ON Canada > > > _______________________________________________ > esp-r mailing list > esp-r at lists.strath.ac.uk > http://lists.strath.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/esp-r From nuno.fernandes at lutche.com.pt Fri Nov 30 16:43:36 2007 From: nuno.fernandes at lutche.com.pt (Nuno Fernandes - LUTCHE Engenharia, Lda) Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 16:43:36 -0000 Subject: [esp-r] liner thermal bridges Message-ID: Dear all esp-r users, Can someone tell me why in sub-menu thermal bridges appears this: "Thermal Bridges (NA)" . . "Simple thermal Bridges not supported in older format geometry files" I try first with an older model, then creating one new model with version 11.4 the same happens. Thanks for any tip, It's very urgent Best regards, Nuno Fernandes -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20071130/94fc89e6/attachment.html From nuno.tiago at ua.pt Fri Nov 30 16:59:17 2007 From: nuno.tiago at ua.pt (Nuno Fernandes) Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 16:59:17 -0000 Subject: [esp-r] thermal bridges Message-ID: Dear all esp-r users, Can someone tell me why in sub-menu thermal bridges appears this: "Thermal Bridges (NA)" . . "Simple thermal Bridges not supported in older format geometry files" I try first with an older model, then creating one new model with version 11.4 the same happens. Thanks for any tip, It's very urgent Best regards, Nuno Fernandes -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20071130/009ec9d0/attachment.html From jon at esru.strath.ac.uk Mon Dec 3 07:55:40 2007 From: jon at esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand (clcv10)) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 07:55:40 +0000 Subject: [esp-r] Re: liner thermal bridges In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8481E010-D52B-42E3-B079-5AB9D750DC0D@esru.strath.ac.uk> A question on Linear Thermal Bridges.... > ?Simple thermal Bridges not supported in older format geometry files? > > I try first with an older model, then creating one new model with > version 11.4 the same happens. > The recent release of ESP-r 11.4 introduced the option for a newer geometry file format that includes additional surface attributes as well as the initial steps in defining and representing simplified thermal bridges. To switch on the new geometry file format go into the preferences menu of the project manager and locate (near the bottom) the option and it will either update current zone files to the new format and/or ensure that new zones created are done in the new format. -Jon Hand -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20071203/d36b6440/attachment.html From ali.fallahi at gmail.com Mon Dec 10 16:15:09 2007 From: ali.fallahi at gmail.com (Ali fallahi) Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 11:15:09 -0500 Subject: [esp-r] Thermal Storage Message-ID: <443e3ca80712100815qf39b61en3151a4e7a54f2815@mail.gmail.com> Dear all, I have a question regarding surface fluxes in .res module of ESP-r. To find the thermal energy stored in a wall (the wall is shared between two adjacent zones with different temporal temperature changes) the option "heat fluxes -- heat storage (inside face)" in ESP-r shows the whole thermal energy stored in the wall or just the energy stored between middle node of the wall to interior surface of the wall? I'm asking this because from either side of the two zones thermal storage would be different. I would appreciate it if someone could answer this question. Many Thanks, Ali Fallahi From Monika.Hall at josef-gartner.ch Tue Dec 11 11:14:19 2007 From: Monika.Hall at josef-gartner.ch (Hall Monika) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 12:14:19 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] {spam?} solar collector "segment" Message-ID: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C2C0C6E@sgartgum1.gart.intra> This is a message from the University of Strathclyde email system. Please read this message in its entirety before responding. AOL USERS PLEASE NOTE: if you are receiving this via AOL because you have set up a forwarding for your Strathclyde email, then please do not use the "Report Spam" feature. It does no good for messages forwarded from Strathclyde, and may cause all email from Strathclyde to AOL to be rejected, including mail forwarded for you. The system believes that a message sent to you: From: monika.hall at josef-gartner.ch Subject: solar collector "segment" Message-Id: 1J235e-0007xW-3T is Unsolicited Bulk Email (typically known as "spam"), based on a total score calculated from various characteristics of the message being greater than a threshold value. The original message that triggered this response has been attached to this message. (You may need to use "Save Attachments" or equivalent to access it.) Unless you are sure that this message is incorrectly thought to be spam, you are advised to delete this message without opening the attachments. Opening spam messages may allow the spammer to verify your email address resulting in more spam being sent to you. Occasionally, a legitimate message may be marked as spam. If you are getting similar messages (for example, from a mailing list) repeatedly marked as spam, and this is an example of one of them, you may forward THIS ENTIRE MESSAGE to us as detailed below. If it appears to be a one-off occurrence, then please don't forward it. Messages can be inappropriately marked for all sorts of reasons largely outwith our control. When forwarding messages for us to investigate, you MUST include the full Internet headers of THIS warning message. We often cannot fully investigate without them, and regretably may have to ignore submissions that do not include this information. You may need to consult the documentation for your email client to find out how to include the full Internet headers; this web page may be of some help: http://oit.nd.edu/email/fullheaders.shtml Any messages you wish us to investigate should be forwarded to: email-security at strath.ac.uk (NOT security at strath.ac.uk - that is incorrect). THIS whole message, including attachments and full Internet headers, must be forwarded. Please include information explaining why you think this should not be classed as spam. Mailing lists, often operated on behalf of commercial companies, appear to be the most common source of 'false positive' (incorrect match as spam). We may be able to make modifications to the system so that particular classes of message do not get marked in this way. You may direct any queries or comments to . http://www.its.strath.ac.uk/email/ube/ pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- ---------------------------------------------- 1.0 EXTRA_MPART_TYPE Header has extraneous Content-type:...type= entry 0.0 HTML_IMAGE_RATIO_06 BODY: HTML has a low ratio of text to image area 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 6.0 FUZZY_OCR BODY: (7.0 points scored, over 6.0 points req'd to be tagged as spam) -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "Hall Monika" Subject: solar collector "segment" Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 12:14:19 +0100 Size: 62403 Url: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20071211/7542e431/attachment-0001.mht From Philip.Neron at space.gc.ca Tue Dec 11 13:56:34 2007 From: Philip.Neron at space.gc.ca (Philip.Neron at space.gc.ca) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 08:56:34 -0500 Subject: [esp-r] Create a .wnd file for wind turbine Message-ID: <812767339B31244987E273CE1F57866316227B@Excsth03.csa.space.gc.ca> Hi every body, I want to create a wind profil for use with the windturbine2. So, I don't have any example of a *.wnd file. Does someone can provide me a template of this kind of file that I can modify for my application. Thanks. Philip N?ron ?tudiant COOP | COOP student Exploration plan?taire | Planetary exploration Sciences spatiales | Space sciences Agence spatiale canadienne | Canadian Space Agency 6767, Route de l'A?roport, Longueuil, QC, Canada, J3Y 8Y9 T?l/Tel : (450) 926-5816 | T?l?c/Fax : (450) 926-4449 Courriel/E-mail :[philip.neron at espace.gc.ca] Site web/Web site : [www.espace.gc.ca] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20071211/32d3013b/attachment.html From KHaddad at NRCan.gc.ca Tue Dec 11 15:21:19 2007 From: KHaddad at NRCan.gc.ca (Haddad, Kamel) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 10:21:19 -0500 Subject: [esp-r] Re: solar collector "segment" In-Reply-To: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C2C0C6E@sgartgum1.gart.intra> References: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C2C0C6E@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Message-ID: Dear Monica, The component you're using for solar collector requires a detailed description of the construction of the collector. There is another collector model with fewer user inputs required. The default parameter values in the plant database for this component are based on actual rating data for a collector available here in the Canadian market. Here is the plant database entry for this component: --------------------------------------------------------------------- PLANT COMPONENT No : 84 Component Description Generic type : Solar collector Description : Simplified flat plate solar collector, 1 node model Insertion date : 6 Jan 2006 Type: Single component Component code : 1180 Nodal Scheme Description Number of nodes : 1 No of nonzero matrix elements : 1 Matrix positions : 1, Node connections : 1, Variable type : 20, Kamel Haddad --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Kamel Haddad, Ph.D. Building Energy Simulation Researcher CANMET Energy Technology Centre Agent de Recherche en Simulation d'?nergie des Batiments Centre de Technologie d'?nergie de CANMET 580 Booth St.Ottawa, Ontario K1A 0E4 T: (613)-947-9822 F: (613)-996-9909 khaddad at nrcan.gc.ca --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----Original Message----- From: Hall Monika [mailto:Monika.Hall at josef-gartner.ch] Sent: December 11, 2007 6:14 AM To: esp-r Subject: solar collector "segment" Hi ESP-r user, I try to start a solar collector. I choose the flat plate solar collector "segment". To fill in the right values I have some questions: Collector mass (kg): Mass of tubes and sheet material? Allover mass, incl. absorber, glazing and side-construction? Collector mass weighted thermal capacity (W/kg K): Is the unit correct? After reading in the source code, I assume, that the unit shall be Wh/(kgK) or Ws/(kg K). Collector transparent surface area (m2): ? Collector opaque surface area (m2): ? g) flat plate solar collector "segment" Does someone have experience with a solar collector? Thank you. Best regards Monika Hall From Monika.Hall at josef-gartner.ch Wed Dec 12 08:54:32 2007 From: Monika.Hall at josef-gartner.ch (Hall Monika) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 09:54:32 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] Re: solar collector "segment" References: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C2C0C6E@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Message-ID: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C2C0D6C@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Dear Kamel, Thank you for your answer. I wittingly took the complex solar collector, because of the input possibilities. We have done some measurements and I want to compare them with a simulation. I would like to model the collector as real as possible. Sometimes is the description in ESP-r a "little" short. Therefore I would like to have a description about the meaning of "collector mass (kg)" and "collector mass weighted thermal capacity W/(kg K)". The unit of a thermal capacity is J/(kg K), but in ESP-r-input-menu is stated W/(kg K). So, I'm not sure which input values are expected. My long-term objective is to integrate the collector in a construction. How could I integrate the backside of the collector in a zone surface? In my project I have none outside conditions on the back side of the collector. Best regards Dr.-Ing. Monika Hall Engineering IIIII GARTNER Josef Gartner Switzerland AG Schorenweg 10 CH-4144 Arlesheim Phone +41 61 417 11 86 Fax +41 61 417 11 91 Mail monika.hall at josef-gartner.ch Web www.josef-gartner.de -----Original Message----- From: Haddad, Kamel [mailto:KHaddad at NRCan.gc.ca] Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 4:21 PM To: Hall Monika; esp-r Subject: RE: solar collector "segment" Dear Monica, The component you're using for solar collector requires a detailed description of the construction of the collector. There is another collector model with fewer user inputs required. The default parameter values in the plant database for this component are based on actual rating data for a collector available here in the Canadian market. Here is the plant database entry for this component: --------------------------------------------------------------------- PLANT COMPONENT No : 84 Component Description Generic type : Solar collector Description : Simplified flat plate solar collector, 1 node model Insertion date : 6 Jan 2006 Type: Single component Component code : 1180 Nodal Scheme Description Number of nodes : 1 No of nonzero matrix elements : 1 Matrix positions : 1, Node connections : 1, Variable type : 20, Kamel Haddad --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Kamel Haddad, Ph.D. Building Energy Simulation Researcher CANMET Energy Technology Centre Agent de Recherche en Simulation d'?nergie des Batiments Centre de Technologie d'?nergie de CANMET 580 Booth St.Ottawa, Ontario K1A 0E4 T: (613)-947-9822 F: (613)-996-9909 khaddad at nrcan.gc.ca --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----Original Message----- From: Hall Monika [mailto:Monika.Hall at josef-gartner.ch] Sent: December 11, 2007 6:14 AM To: esp-r Subject: solar collector "segment" Hi ESP-r user, I try to start a solar collector. I choose the flat plate solar collector "segment". To fill in the right values I have some questions: Collector mass (kg): Mass of tubes and sheet material? Allover mass, incl. absorber, glazing and side-construction? Collector mass weighted thermal capacity (W/kg K): Is the unit correct? After reading in the source code, I assume, that the unit shall be Wh/(kgK) or Ws/(kg K). Collector transparent surface area (m2): ? Collector opaque surface area (m2): ? g) flat plate solar collector "segment" Does someone have experience with a solar collector? Thank you. Best regards Monika Hall From giuseppina.alcamo at taed.unifi.it Mon Dec 17 13:50:21 2007 From: giuseppina.alcamo at taed.unifi.it (Giuseppina Alcamo) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 14:50:21 +0100 (CET) Subject: [esp-r] Climate files research Message-ID: <2166.150.217.0.187.1197899421.squirrel@www.taed.unifi.it> Deal ESP-r users, I'm looking for two Climate files to be used in ESPr, for projects located in Italy. One is in Bari (South of Italy), the other one is in Vicenza (North of Italy). If you already worked in those locations with appropriate climatic files, please let me know. br Giuseppina -- Ing. Giuseppina Alcamo Universit? degli Studi di Firenze Centro ABITA via San Niccol? 89a 50125 Firenze tel. +39.055.5048394 fax. +39.055.5048394.48 email. giuseppina.alcamo at taed.unifi.it From Monika.Hall at josef-gartner.ch Wed Dec 19 12:13:36 2007 From: Monika.Hall at josef-gartner.ch (Hall Monika) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 13:13:36 +0100 Subject: [esp-r] water-glycol-mixing for solar collector Message-ID: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C2C146D@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Dear all, I work with a plant system which includes a solar collector. Is it right, that the plant system work with water? Usually a solar collector works with a water-glycol-mixture. Due to the different of the thermal capacity and density of water and water-glycol-mixture, the collector reacts differently. Does somebody know how to handle this? Is there a possibility to specify the fluid? Thank you. Best regards Monika -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20071219/ad173716/attachment.html From AFerguso at NRCan.gc.ca Wed Dec 19 13:00:38 2007 From: AFerguso at NRCan.gc.ca (Ferguson, Alex) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 08:00:38 -0500 Subject: [esp-r] Re: water-glycol-mixing for solar collector In-Reply-To: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C2C146D@sgartgum1.gart.intra> References: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C2C146D@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Message-ID: Hi Monika, The simplified one-node solar collector model that Kamel mentioned in an earlier email supports two-phase flow (that is glycol and water mixtures). Kamel also modified the pump, tank and heat-exchanger models to support glycol mixtures. - Alex ________________________________ From: esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk [mailto:esp-r-bounces at lists.strath.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Hall Monika Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 07:14 To: esp-r Subject: [esp-r] water-glycol-mixing for solar collector Dear all, I work with a plant system which includes a solar collector. Is it right, that the plant system work with water? Usually a solar collector works with a water-glycol-mixture. Due to the different of the thermal capacity and density of water and water-glycol-mixture, the collector reacts differently. Does somebody know how to handle this? Is there a possibility to specify the fluid? Thank you. Best regards Monika -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20071219/18344a79/attachment.html From David.Tang at owenscorning.com Thu Dec 20 05:29:55 2007 From: David.Tang at owenscorning.com (Tang, David) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 13:29:55 +0800 Subject: [esp-r] CAD export to esp-r References: <5410907208A9F149ADB6E44744892B3C2C146D@sgartgum1.gart.intra> Message-ID: <8E334BEBBF31D54B9989B206FB4A6D09032C4945@shos6101.ap.corp.owenscorning.com> Hi, We have developed CAD toolkits to build and export complex model to esp-r. The attached image shows the CAD model built in just a few minites. The esp-r archive shows the result of the import without any manual editing. Any one interested or doubtful thomas can send us a complex model (20-storey, 150 rooms). Let us do it for you. Regards, David Tang Chief Engineer, Energy Solutions Owens Corning T: +86 21 6101 9587; F: +86 21 6101 9588; m: +86 13817249419 The information contained in this communication and its attachment(s) is intended only for the use of the individual to whom it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential, or exempt from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify postmaster at owenscorning.com and delete the communication without retaining any copies. Thank you. Translations available: http://www.owenscorning.com/emailfooter.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20071220/b2570ea8/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: fig-1.gif Type: image/gif Size: 5540 bytes Desc: fig-1.gif Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20071220/b2570ea8/attachment.gif -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: xxxx.tar Type: application/x-tar Size: 2539 bytes Desc: xxxx.tar Url : http://lists.strath.ac.uk/archives/esp-r/attachments/20071220/b2570ea8/attachment.tar From David.Tang at owenscorning.com Mon Dec 24 03:26:51 2007 From: David.Tang at owenscorning.com (Tang, David) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 11:26:51 +0800 Subject: [esp-r] CAD export to esp-r References: Message-ID: <8E334BEBBF31D54B9989B206FB4A6D0903321BF3@shos6101.ap.corp.owenscorning.com> Harry, The objective of developing this software toolkits is to aid the performance of esp-r. It is targeted to be open source once the development completed. The software aims at 3D visual experience and fun to use. The key elements are an AutoCAD like (but much easier to use) 3D model builder and an OpenGL interactive colour rendered 3D model viewer allowing VR flying through. It is generic but robust enough to produce data importable by esp-r. Users no longer need to split a surface to insert a window or a door, or to match another wall in an adjacent room. The splitting and matching of the whole building is done automatically. We estimate that it saves 80% of time and the modelling becomes enjoyable. Currently we are carrying out extensive testing. Creating small models for academic research are trival. We are looking for architects and consulting engineers who use esp-r for real, large commercial projects. To help us and help you, talk to us and send us your cases (we import 2D AutoCAD files). We create the esp-r models for you. It is software beta testing. We do not charge and nor should you. The images and esp-r project will be sent in separate email. You may need to edit the file esp-r/defaul as we are using a different version of esp-r which uses environment variable. Regards, David Tang Chief Engineer, Energy Solutions Owens Corning T: +86 21 6101 9587; F: +86 21 6101 9588; m: +86 13817249419 > -----Original Message----- > From: Harry Mellor [mailto:mail at harrymellor.com] > Sent: Friday, December 21, 2007 8:44 PM > To: Tang, David > Subject: CAD export to esp-r [esp-r Digest, Vol 17, Issue 8] > > Hi > > Very interesting. Is this a service or a product for sale - or what? > More detail would be appreciated. And maybe you would be kind > enough to forward direct the image and file mentioned in the esp list? > > Thanks > > Harry Mellor The information contained in this communication and its attachment(s) is intended only for the use of the individual to whom it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential, or exempt from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify postmaster at owenscorning.com and delete the communication without retaining any copies. Thank you. Translations available: http://www.owenscorning.com/emailfooter.html